358. 为何你应在二十多岁时淡化爱情的中心地位

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

保证是人类。

Guaranteed human.

铃儿响叮当。

Jingle bells.

铃儿响叮当。

Jingle bells.

一路响叮当。

Jingle all the way.

哟。

Yo.

哟。

Yo.

哟。

Yo.

哟。

Yo.

我们能先过个感恩节吗？

Can we get a Thanksgiving first?

我饿了。

I'm hungry.

大家最近怎么样？

What's up, y'all?

我是卡迪姆。

It's Kadim.

还有德瓦勒，《埃利斯童话之后》播客的主持人。

And DeValle, the host of the Ellis Ever After podcast.

在这个节日季

This holiday season

屏蔽喧嚣，收听《埃利斯童话之后》。

Tune out the noise and tune in to Ellis Ever After.

在《埃利斯之后》节目中，我们与团队真诚探讨家庭、爱情与婚姻

On Ellis Ever After, we get real with our crew about family, love and marriage

以及介于两者之间的一切话题。

And everything else in between.

请在美国排名第一的播客网络iHeart上收听《埃利斯之后》。

Listen to Ellis Ever After on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.

立即关注《埃利斯之后》，并通过免费的iHeartRadio应用开始收听。

Follow Ellis Ever After and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

《珍娜世界》、《珍娜·詹姆森》、《生动视频》与《山谷》是一档关于成人电影产业历史的新播客。

Jenna World, Jenna Jameson, Vivid Video, and The Valley is a new podcast about the history of the adult film industry.

我是莫莉·兰伯特，将作为您的向导带您领略成人电影的狂野之旅。

I'm Molly Lambert, and I'll be your tour guide on a wild trip through adult films.

我们的收入比男性从业者更高。

We get paid more than the men.

我们掌握着话语权。

We call the shots.

这怎么就低俗了？

In what way is that degrading?

这正是我们掌控自己人生的方式。

That's us taking hold of our life.

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听《Gena World》。

Listen to Gena World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

NBA冠军斯蒂芬·库里带来《投篮准备》，以前所未有的视角展现改变比赛格局的思维模式。

From NBA champion, Stephen Curry, comes shot ready, a powerful never before seen look at the mindset that changed the game.

我爱上了这种苦练的过程。

I fell in love with the grind.

你必须在自己独自工作时找到乐趣。

You have to find joy in the work you do when no one else is around.

成功绝非偶然。

Success is not an accident.

现在我把球传给你。

I'm passing the ball to you.

我们开始吧。

Let's go.

斯蒂芬·库里重新定义了篮球。

Steph Curry redefined basketball.

如今他正在改写成功的定义。

Now he's rewriting what it means to succeed.

立即前往stephincurrybook.com订购《纽约时报》畅销书《准备投篮》。

Order your copy of the New York Times bestseller, Shot Ready, today at stephincurrybook.com.

与我——丹尼·特雷霍一起走进《夜曲：阴影传说》，这部现代恐怖故事选集灵感源自拉丁美洲的传说与民间故事。

Join me, Danny Trejo, in Nocturno, tales from the shadows, an anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听《夜曲：阴影传说》。

Listen to Nocturnal, tales from the shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你好。

Hi.

我是丹尼·夏皮罗。

I'm Danny Shapiro.

我们当时在车里，像《滚石》这首歌响起时，他说里面有句歌词提到你母亲。

We were in the car, like a rolling stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother.

我就问，什么？

And I said, what?

什么我

What I

如果我觉得不被接纳时就会做的，就是选择一种别人无法拥有的身份。

would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have.

我知道半夜发生了些事，但就是想不起来具体发生了什么。

I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened.

这些只是我《家庭秘密》第十三季中部分感人的重要故事。

These are just a few of the moving and important stories on my thirteenth season of Family Secrets.

请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听《家庭秘密》。

Listen to family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好。

Hello, everybody.

我是杰玛·斯派克，欢迎回到《二十几岁的心理学》，这档播客节目我们将探讨二十多岁阶段最重大的杰玛式转变、关键时刻与过渡期，以及它们对我们心理的影响。

I'm Gemma Spike, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, the podcast where we talk through the biggest Gemma changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.

大家好。

Hello, everybody.

各位。

Everybody.

欢迎再次回到节目。

Welcome back back to to the show.

欢迎回到播客，新听众、老听众，无论您身处世界何处。

Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world.

非常高兴你们能再次收听新一期节目，我们将继续解析二十多岁的心理奥秘。

It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our twenties.

前几天，我做了一期关于我二十多岁至今五大遗憾的节目。

So the other day, I did an episode on the five biggest regrets I have about my twenties so far.

其中引起许多人共鸣的一个遗憾，是我在二十岁出头时过于专注约会这件事。

And one of those regrets that really stood out to a lot of you was this regret I have about focusing too much on dating in my early twenties.

我记得19岁在大学宿舍里下载Tinder时，心里想着这总该给我找个男朋友了吧。

I remember being 19 in my college university dorm room downloading Tinder and being like, this better get me a boyfriend.

就像，我需要一个男朋友。

Like, I need a boyfriend.

我需要融入大家。

I need to fit in.

我需要拥有这样一段别人能看到的恋爱关系，感觉会特别美好。

I need to have this, like, relationship that, like, others can see, and that's, like, gonna feel amazing.

这会让我自我感觉非常良好。

And this is gonna make me feel really great about myself.

后来我确实交到了男朋友。

And I got the boyfriend.

但这段关系并不令人满意。

It wasn't very satisfying.

结果我又陷入了这个循环，一次又一次地从男性、从恋爱对象那里寻求认可，这种追求其实相当空虚，还耗费了大量本该用于自我探索、旅行、交友和培养友谊的时间。

I ended up back in this cycle of again and again and again chasing validation from men, chasing validation from romantic partners that was actually pretty unfulfilling and took away a lot of the time that I should have devoted to figuring myself out, to traveling, exploring, putting time and effort into friendships.

你知道，尤其是那段我之前提过的感情，仅仅因为身处那段关系就让我失去了很多友谊。

You know, there was especially this relationship that I've spoken about before where, you know, the very fact that I was in that relationship cost me a lot of friendships.

这件事至今仍让我时常回想。

And it's something that I still think about fairly often.

我依然非常想念那些朋友，尽管那段感情早已结束。

I still miss those friends so much, and I'm not even in that relationship anymore.

而让我深感懊悔的是，爱情不仅凌驾于其他所有形式的爱之上，甚至成了我生活的全部重心。

And and it's a huge regret of mine that romance often took precedence over not just all other kinds of love, but just everything in my life.

如今我们看到一种令人惊叹——我个人也深感钦佩的潮流：不再以男性为中心，不再以约会为中心，慢慢寻找对的人，珍惜单身岁月，反思我们在感情中的付出与收获。

Nowadays, we're seeing this incredible, and I would also say personally really admirable trend of decentering men, decentering dating, taking your time to find the right person, honoring your single years, questioning what we sacrifice in a relationship as much as what we think we gain.

于是我想，现在正是从心理学角度探讨这股'二十多岁淡化爱情与男性中心地位'潮流的绝佳时机。

And I thought, what a great time to investigate this trend of decentering romance, decentering men in our twenties, and doing so from a psychological perspective.

我想探讨二十多岁时对爱情的执着从何而来，它如何阻碍了我们生活的其他方面，以及如何在这个十年里淡化约会焦虑、放下'必须找到真命天子'的执念——这样我们才能更自私一点，真正关注自我，把原本投注在他人的时间、精力与注意力都留给自己——在我们最需要的时候。

I wanna talk about where this laser focus on love comes from in our twenties, why it might be holding us back in other areas of our lives, and how we can decenter dating and needing to find our person during this decade so that we can be a little bit selfish, so that we can really focus on ourselves, so that we can have all that time and energy and effort and attention we put into others just for us when I think we really need it the most.

那么事不宜迟，让我们来解析二十多岁淡化爱情背后的心理学原理。

So without further ado, let's break down the psychology behind decentering romance in our twenties.

首先，我认为我们应该探讨为什么我们在这个十年、这些年里如此专注于爱情。

To start us off, I think we should first look at why we focus so much on love during this decade, during these years.

第一个也是最简单的解释就是：爱情确实非常美好。

The first explanation and the easiest explanation is simply that love is really wonderful.

真的，它很棒。

Like, it is great.

我不会假装它不是。

I'm not gonna pretend that it's not.

你我都知道，如果遇到对的人，爱情会改变人生。

You and I both know it is life changing if it is with the right person.

但问题是，没人告诉过我们找到对的人实际上有多难。

The thing is though, nobody told us how hard it would actually be to find the right person.

我们童年时读到的童话式爱情故事，在现实中其实寥寥无几。

The storybook romances of our childhood, they are actually pretty few and far between.

但由于我们的社会建立在婚姻、结合、伴侣和家庭的理想之上，我们常常觉得——至少我记得自己曾这样想——在我的人生清单上首先勾选'找到男朋友'之前，我生活的其他部分都无法真正开始。

But because our society is based around ideals of marriage, unions, couples, families, we often feel like or at least I remember feeling like the rest of my life would not start could not start until I have I had firstly ticked off get a boyfriend on my list.

进入一段关系曾是我必须完成的事情，然后才能进入人生的下一个阶段，才能真正成为成年人。

Get into a relationship was this thing that I had to do before, you know, I could progress into the next phase of my life, before I could truly be an adult.

社会施加了巨大压力，要求你找到伴侣，这样才能同居、结婚、申请房贷、养狗、生子，而这个流程让我们感到必须在相当年轻的年纪就开始。

There is this huge societal pressure to find somebody so that you can, you know, move in together and then so that you can get married, get a mortgage, get a dog, have a kid, and that is a process that we feel very pressured to begin at actually what is quite a young age.

比如二十出头时，你还非常非常年轻，但潜意识里总有个声音在提醒你：时间不等人。

Like your early twenties, you were you're still, like, very, very young, and yet in the back of your mind, there is this constant fear of, like, the clock is ticking.

优秀的人都被挑走了。

All the good ones are taken.

我的标准只会越来越低。

My standards are just gonna get lower.

可选择的对象会越来越少。

The dating pool's gonna get smaller.

我觉得我们都熟悉这套说辞。

I feel like we all know this script.

我总在自问：这其中有几分是为了社会认同和社会认可？又有几分是真正关乎对方本人，是真心实意的关怀，是对另一个人真实、深刻而炽热的情感？

I always ask myself, how much of this is really just about social approval and social recognition, and how much of this is actually purely about the other person and really caring for them and having real, true, deep, passionate feelings for another human.

我们天生对公众所推崇的事物非常敏感。

We are very naturally sensitive to what is publicly celebrated.

显然，作为人类，我们本能地追求和谐与从众，即便我们自以为并非如此。

Obviously, we instinctually, as humans, seek harmony and conformity even if we think that we don't.

而恋爱关系是一个目标，也是从外部极易识别和赞许的事情。

And being in a relationship is a goal and is something that is very easy to recognize and applaud from the outside.

并非我们肤浅。

It's not that we are shallow.

也不是说我们仅仅因为他人期待才这样做。

It's not that, like, we are only doing this because other people expect it from us.

只是我们深刻意识到并受社会期望的影响——即便我们的价值观更为复杂，爱情里程碑仍垄断着我们对人生进展的认知。

It's just that we are very much aware and influenced by society's expectations and the fact that romantic milestones monopolize our sense of progress even when our values are more complex than that.

你可能已经注意到这点。

You may have noticed this.

比如见到许久未见的亲戚时。

Like, you see a family member you haven't seen in a while.

有时候你和朋友聊天，话题从来不会是'你对未来有多期待'或者'你现在在忙什么大事'？

Sometimes even you have conversations with your friends, and it's never, you know, how excited are you for the future or what's like the big thing that you're working on right now?

你对什么感到兴奋？

What are you excited about?

你的目标是什么？

What's your goal?

永远都是'你有男朋友了吗？'

It's always, so do you have a boyfriend yet?

你有女朋友了吗？

Do you have a girlfriend?

你在和谁约会吗？

Are you dating anyone?

话题总是回到这个点上，这让人非常焦虑。

The conversation always comes back to that and it creates a lot of anxiety.

这种焦虑会影响我们的决策。

Anxiety that influences our decision making.

要知道，这是另一个我经常思考的问题，我真心希望年轻时的自己能多想想这些。

You know, this is another thing that I think about a lot and that I really wish my younger self had thought about a little bit more.

你是真的想要一个男朋友吗？

Do you really want a boyfriend?

你是真的想要一个女朋友吗？

Do you really want a girlfriend?

还是你只是想让关于单身的焦虑消失？

Or do you just want the anxiety about being single to go away?

你是真的想要一段关系，还是仅仅为了不再担心自己可能错过了什么？

Do you actually want a relationship, or would it just stop you worrying about what you may be missing out on?

你是想要一个伴侣，还是想让别人知道你有价值因为有人选择了你？

Do you want a partner, or do you want people to know that you have value because someone chose you?

这些都源于我们内心深处的恐惧：我们是否值得被爱，是否被接纳，是否有价值。

This is all stemming from deep fears about whether we're worthy, whether whether we are loved, whether we are accepted, whether we have value.

这种恐惧和焦虑将我们从理性判断、价值衡量的状态推向一个充满紧迫感、冲动和盲目的境地——我们加速承诺的进程，不是因为契合度很高，甚至不一定因为彼此合适，而是因为我们二十多岁时感受到的时间线既脆弱又充满不确定性。

This fear, this anxiety pushes us from a place of discernment, a place of rationality, intention, and value into a place of urgency, a place of impulsivity, blindness where we accelerate commitment, not because the fit is strong, not because we are even necessarily compatible, but because the timeline that we are experiencing in our twenties feels very fragile and feels very uncertain.

这其中的风险是什么？

What is the risk in this?

在二十多岁时过度强调浪漫关系会带来什么风险？

What is the risk in centering romance too much and too strongly in our twenties?

这里的风险就是我们所说的叙事封闭。

The risk here is what we refer to as narrative foreclosure.

我们已经有了伴侣。

We have the partner.

我们在约会软件上找到了那个人。

We found the person on the dating app.

而现在我们已经恋爱了，可能已经相处了几年，我们真心认为重新开始为时已晚。

And now that we're in the relationship and maybe we're a couple of years down the line, we genuinely believe it's too late to start over again.

现在重新开始已经太迟了。

It's too late to get back out there.

于是你在这段还算不错的关系中，在这段至少满足'有伴侣'条件的关系中，容忍度越来越低，远不及一段美好关系应有的标准。

So you tolerate less and less and less and less than an amazing relationship for this good relationship, for this relationship that at least ticks the box of being partnered.

要知道，真正应该让我们感到恐惧的——比找不到伴侣更可怕的——其实是找错了人，却误以为是对的。

And you know what what should really I really believe should scare us and scare you more than not finding somebody is actually finding the wrong person and confusing them with the right person.

很多时候，过早匆忙地进入恋爱或婚姻关系，实际上更可能导致日后分手或离婚，因为我们再次出于紧迫感而非判断力行事，这让我们做出了错误的选择。

A lot of the time, rushing into relationships or marriages very young is actually more likely to see you broken up or divorced later down the line because we are acting from a place again of urgency rather than discernment, which causes us to just choose wrong.

2013年发表在《伴侣与家庭心理学》期刊上的一项研究显示，61%的离婚夫妇认为结婚过早是导致关系破裂的主要原因之一。

A 2013 study published in the journal couple and family psychology actually found that sixty one percent of couples who recently got a divorce cited that getting married too young was one of the main factors their relationship didn't work out.

仅仅因为觉得自己必须在二十出头就找个伴侣，并不等同于找到了合适的人选，也不等同于拥有一个你真正信任且性格相投的人。

Simply being partnered when you're in your early twenties because you feel like you have to is not the same as being well matched and is not the same as having somebody you genuinely trust and are compatible with.

风险在于，你拥有了这个人，于是感觉人生的某个篇章过早地翻过去了。

And the risk is that you have this person and so you feel like a chapter in your life is closed maybe earlier than it should have.

你把生命中最美好的年华给了这个人。

You've given this person some of the best years of your life.

你献出了自己的青春。

You've given them your youth.

然后到了三四十岁，你才恍然大悟：我当初为什么要那样做？

And then now you're 30, 40, and you're like, why did I do that?

我当时为何如此匆忙？

Why was I in such a rush?

其实我本有大把时光，而那些岁月已无法重来。

I actually had so much time, and I cannot get those years back.

我认为二十多岁最应该淡化爱情的首要原因是——这十年本应是你最自私的岁月。

The biggest reason I think that we should be decentering romance in our twenties is because, ultimately, this should be your selfish decade.

若你想在希腊住上一个月，就去吧。

If you wanna spend a month in Greece, do it.

若你想移居他国，就去吧。

If you wanna move countries, do it.

若你想每四个月就改变一次自我，尽管去做。

If you wanna change who you are every four months, do it.

你想探索万物，尝试一切，体验所有，见识世界，那就付诸行动。

You wanna explore everything, try it all, taste it all, see it all, do it.

因为要实现这些个人目标和抱负，需要专注力，需要时间，更需要你诚实地直面真实的自我。

Like, having these goals and ambitions for yourself requires focus, and it requires time, and it requires you to be really honest and in touch with who you are.

当你只专注于浪漫爱情时，别误会我的意思。

And when you focus when your focus is on romantic love and romantic love only, don't confuse me.

你的生活就不再属于你自己了。

Your life is not about you anymore.

而是关于某个模糊不清、难以捉摸的人，他们会闯入你的生活并拯救一切。

It is about this faceless, elusive someone who will come into your life and save the day.

如果你在等待被选中后生活才真正开始，你会扭曲自己、改变自己、迷失自己，只为取悦一个可能还不如没有他们时过得更好的人。

If you are waiting to be chosen before your life really begins, you are going to contort yourself, change yourself, lose yourself trying to impress somebody who might not even make your life better than what it could have been without them.

于是你失去了自我。

So you lose your identity.

你失去了优先事项。

You lose your priorities.

你还失去了时间。

You also lose your time.

要知道，以恋爱可能性和约会为中心会耗费大量时间。

You know, centering romantic possibilities and centering dating is so time consuming.

这占据了宝贵的心理能量。

It is it takes up valuable mental energy.

了解一个人，回复约会应用上的所有消息，不断尝试安排约会并记住他们是否已读不回。

Getting to know somebody, replying to all these messages on dating apps, constantly trying to organize dates and remember whether they ghosted you or not.

这简直就像一份全职工作。

Like, it's basically a full time job.

我记得有几年我约会相当频繁的时候。

I remember when I was dating fairly intensely for a couple of years there.

如果我当时画个饼图统计我花时间思考的事情——当时我正在求学，还有份很棒的工作。

If I had made a pie chart of what I spent time thinking about and I was, like, pursuing my education, I had a really great job.

我也有自己的爱好。

I had hobbies.

但仍有50%的时间，我都在想着男人，被他们对我的看法分心。

Still, 50% of the time, I would be thinking about men, and I would be distracted by what they were thinking about me.

而且这是我唯一能和朋友们谈论的话题。

And it was all I could talk about with my friends.

这太耗费时间了，而且这些时间我再也无法挽回，本可以用来休息、学习新技能、结交新朋友或发挥创造力。

It was so time consuming, and that was time that I don't get back that I could have used for rest or learning a new skill or making new friends or being creative.

我真心觉得这在某种程度上是一种浪费。

And and I really do feel like it was in some ways wasted.

我想在更深层次上，我们有时确实会这样做。

I think maybe on a deeper level, sometimes we do this.

我们放弃自己的时间，追逐被选择的感觉，只因我们渴望感受到归属感。

We give up our time and we chase being chosen because we just wanna feel like we belong.

我们渴望被看见、被爱，而这恰恰是在逃避真正面对自己。

And we wanna feel like somebody sees us and loves us, and that is a way to avoid truly being with ourselves.

我们从短信、计划、与他人相处的可能性承诺中，快速获得安全感或自尊心的满足。

We get a fast hit of safety or self esteem in the text, in the plans, in the promises of being with somebody in their potential.

我想我们暂时会获得一种解脱感——或许我们不会永远孤独，或许我们没那么糟糕，或许我们确实有价值。

And I think we momentarily get a sense of relief that we might not be lonely forever, that maybe we're not that terrible, maybe we do have value.

而我们真正在做的，是情感上的逃避行为。

And what we're really engaging in here is emotional bypassing.

我们利用他人的关注来逃避内心功课，因为这样感觉更安全。

We're using the attention of other people to dodge the inner work because it feels safer to do so.

很多时候我们会想，只要进入一段关系，一切就会改变。

Oftentimes, we think, you know, when I'm in a relationship, everything will change.

我将获得所需的认可。

I'll have the validation I'll need.

我会快乐，因为别人已经确认了我的价值。

I'll be happy because somebody else has confirmed for me that I have value.

问题是所有的不安全感依然存在，而且可能会因为仓促选择第一个出现的人，或是为被选中而改变自己，变得更糟。

And the thing is is that all that insecurity will still be there, and it will probably be made worse by the fact that perhaps you chose the first person who showed up at the front door or you changed in order to be chosen.

现在请听好。

And now listen.

约会本身是件有趣的事。

It's fun to date.

要知道，我正和一位很棒的人经营着长期关系。

You know, I'm in a long term relationship with an amazing guy.

我不是说要你像修女一样清心寡欲直到30岁，但让约会成为生活的一部分与让约会吞噬你的生活、时间、精力、身份认同和自我价值感，这两者是有区别的。

I'm not saying, like, turn into a nun until you're 30, but there is a difference between dating being a part of your life and dating consuming your life and consuming your time, energy, identity, and sense of self worth.

所以在短暂休息后，我想探讨的是二十多岁时如何采取一种细腻、平衡且健康的恋爱观——它不否定爱情，不排斥浪漫之爱，只是不再让它成为我们试图构建或讲述的人生主线。

So after this short break, what I wanna do is explore a nuanced, balanced, healthy approach to romance in our twenties that doesn't eliminate love, doesn't eliminate romantic love, but just decenters it from being the main story we're trying to build for ourselves or tell ourselves.

请继续关注。

Stay with us.

嗨，凯尔。

Hi, Kyle.

你能草拟一份简版商业计划书吗？就一页纸，用谷歌

Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page, as a Google

文档写好发链接给我？

Doc and send me the link?

谢谢。

Thanks.

嘿，刚给你赶完那份一页纸的简版商业计划书。

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you.

这是链接。

Here's the link.

但是没有链接。

But there was no link.

也没有商业计划书。

There was no business plan.

这不是他的错。

It's not his fault.

我还没给凯尔编程让他具备这个能力。

I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.

我是埃文·拉特利夫。

My name is Evan Ratliff.

在听了OpenAI首席执行官萨姆·奥尔特曼许多类似言论后，我决定创造我的AI联合创始人凯尔。

I decided to create Kyle, my AI cofounder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

现在有个赌局，押注首家单人运营的十亿美元公司何时出现——这在没有AI的时代是不可想象的，但现在即将成为现实。

There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one person billion dollar company, which would have been, like, unimaginable without AI, and now will happen.

我开始思考，是否

I got to thinking, could

我能成为那个人吗？

I be that one person?

我之前曾为我获奖的播客《Shell Game》制作过AI代理。

I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast, Shell Game.

本季《Shell Game》中，我试图建立一个由虚拟人运营的真实公司和真实产品。

This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.

哦，嘿，埃文。

Oh, hey, Evan.

很高兴你能加入我们。

Good to have you join us.

我发现了一些关于中小型企业采用AI代理率的非常有趣的数据。

I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents in small to medium businesses.

请在iHeartRadio应用或你获取播客的任何平台收听《Shell Game》。

Listen to Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

当你将1950年代的好莱坞、一位怀揣梦想的古巴音乐家，与史上最具标志性的情景喜剧融合在一起，会得到什么？

What do you get when you mix nineteen fifties Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time?

你会得到德西·阿纳兹——一位开拓者、商人、丈夫，或许最重要的是，他是首位打破黄金时段壁垒的拉丁裔明星。

You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open.

我是威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛，没错，我从小看着他长大，可能就像你和数百万观众一样。

I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others.

但对我而言，我在他的故事中看到了自己的影子。

But for me, I saw myself in his story.

从清洗金丝雀笼子到纽约的这个夜晚，这是一段漫长的旅程。

From cleaning canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways.

在这档由德西·阿纳兹和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主演的播客中，我将带你走进德西的人生，那些与我们命运交汇的瞬间，他如何重新定义美国电视，以及这对我们这些在场外等待屏幕上出现相似面孔的观众意味着什么。

On the podcast starring Desi Arness and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life, the moments he has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen.

这是一个关于一个人的聚光灯如何为无数后来者照亮道路的故事，也是关于我们如何传承他遗产的故事。

This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today.

请收听由德西·阿纳兹和威尔默·瓦尔德拉玛主演的播客，作为My Cultura播客网络的一部分，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的平台收听。

Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

嘿，你好。

Hey there.

我是杰西·米尔斯医生。

Doctor Jesse Mills here.

我是UCLA健康中心男性诊所的主任，我想向你介绍我的新播客《诊室》。

I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health, and I wanna tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom.

我是乔丹，这个节目的制作人。

And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.

和很多男性一样，我已经很多年没去看医生了。

And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years.

我会提出那些我们本该问但没问的问题。

I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking but aren't.

因为男人们通常除非脸掉了一块或者骨折了才会去看医生。

Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone.

看是哪个部位的骨头。

Depends which bone.

哇

Wow.

确实如此

That's true.

每周我们都会剖析男性健康这个独特领域，从睾酮与健身到饮食与生育能力，乃至卧室里发生的那些事

Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom.

你是指睡觉吗？

You mean sleep?

对

Yeah.

差不多吧，乔丹

Something like that, Jordan.

我们将用通俗语言探讨科学，为你真正好奇的问题提供真实答案

We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.

无论你是27岁、97岁还是介于两者之间，这都会很有趣

It's gonna be fun whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.

男性健康远不止六块腹肌和营养补充品。

Men's Health is about more than six packs and supplements.

它关乎活力、自信与情感联结。

It's about energy, confidence, and connection.

我们不仅希望你活得更长久。

We don't just want you to live longer.

更希望你活得更精彩。

We want you to live better.

快去iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或你喜爱的节目平台查看邮件室吧。

So check out the mail room on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

大家好啊！

What up, y'all?

我是你们的老朋友凯文，现在登场。

It's your boy, Kev on stage.

我想向大家介绍我的新播客《并非高光时刻》，在这里我将与艺术家、运动员、演艺人士、创作者、朋友以及我敬佩的成功人士畅谈他们遭遇过的重大失败。

I wanna tell you about my new podcast called not my best moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures.

他们搞砸了什么？

What did they mess up on?

他们的心率是多少？

What is their heart rate?

他们从中吸取了什么教训？

And what did they learn from it?

我被狠狠地评判了。

I got judged horribly.

评委们说，你就是垃圾。

The judges were like, you're trash.

我不知道你是怎么登上节目的。

I don't know how you got on the show.

嘘。

Boo.

有人带了西红柿。

Somebody had tomatoes.

不。

No.

我在开玩笑。

I'm kidding.

但如果他们有西红柿，肯定会扔过来的。

But they if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes.

说实话吧。

Let's be honest.

我们都有过那些宁愿忘记的时刻。

We've all had those moments we'd rather forget.

我们撞到了头。

We bumped our head.

我们犯了错。

We made a mistake.

交易失败了。

The deal fell through.

我们感到尴尬。

We're embarrassed.

我们失败了。

We failed.

但这个播客正是关于这些经历以及我们如何度过难关的。

But this podcast is about that and how we made it through.

所以他们让我坐下时，先是寒暄了几句，然后就直接问：你有什么想法？

So when they sat me down, they were kinda like we got into the small talk, they were just like, so what do you got?

有什么想法？

What what ideas?

而我

And I

心想，糟了。

was like, oh, no.

什么？

What?

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客、YouTube或任何你获取播客的地方，观看我和Kev在台上的表现——虽然不是我最好的时刻。

Check out not my best moment with me, Kev on stage, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嗨。

Hi.

我是Priyanka Wally医生。

I'm doctor Priyanka Wally.

我是Hariko Nabolu。

And I'm Hariko Nabolu.

在我们的新播客《健康那些事》中，我们将解答你们迫切关心的健康问题。

On our new podcast, health stuff, we your burning health questions.

你会听到我们完全坦诚地谈论自己的健康状况。

You'll hear us being completely honest about our own health.

我现在正在谈论非常严肃的事情，而你却在笑我。

I'm talking about very serious stuff right now, and you're laughing at me.

你还会听到专家们真诚的建议和个人故事，他们希望让医疗保健更具人性化。

And you'll hear candid advice and personal stories from experts who want to make health care more human.

有时你在那里倾听、理解、共情，或许帮他们理清现状或给问题一个名称。

Sometimes you're there to listen, to understand, to empathize, maybe to give them an understanding or a name for what's going on.

这能极大帮助人们明白问题并非仅存在于他们脑海中。

That helps people a lot, understanding that it's not just in their head.

我们将拆解科学原理，与专家对话，并分享你能在日常生活中实际运用的健康小贴士。

We are breaking down the science, talking with experts, and sharing practical health tips you can actually use in your day to day life.

从何时利用及避免人造光线，到如何睡得更好。

From when to utilize and avoid artificial light to how to sleep better.

关于纤维你需要知道的一切，以及如何更顺畅地排便。

Everything you need to know about fiber and how to poop better.

如何减轻时差影响，及在困境中保持希望。

How to minimize the effects of jet lag and how to stay hopeful in times of distress.

我们人类，最渴望的就是联结。

We human beings, all we want is connection.

我们只想彼此相连。

We just wanna connect with each other.

我们希望让健康话题变得不那么令人困惑，甚至可能还有点趣味性。

We wanna make health less confusing and maybe even a little fun.

你可以在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方找到健康相关内容。

Find health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

以我个人的浅见，我确实认为爱情在任何人生阶段都不应该成为你世界的中心焦点——也许婚礼当天可以例外。

In my in my humble opinion, I do truly believe that romance should not at any stage in your life be the main focus of your world, except for maybe like on your wedding day.

我这样描述：我与伴侣的关系和感受到的爱，并不是我的整个世界。

How I describe it is my relationship and the love I feel for my partner is not my whole world.

那是一个独立的宇宙，我可以随时踏入享受，但也会抽身离开——因为你知道，我的世界终究是我自己的世界。

It is a separate universe for which I step into, I get to enjoy, but I also step out of because, you know, my world is my world.

而我和伴侣的关系，某种程度上是独立于那个主世界存在的。

And me and my partner, our relationship does kind of exist separately from that.

当我花太多时间沉浸在那个平行宇宙时，或是当我感觉所有计划和行为都必须围绕他时，这就是个明确信号——该把双脚重新牢牢扎回自己的内心世界和心灵花园了。

The moment that I'm spending too much time in this other universe or the moment that I feel like all my plans and and all my behaviors need to be about him or orientated towards him, this is like a really good sign to plant my feet firmly back into my own inner world and my own inner garden.

所以如果你想在二十多岁时淡化爱情的中心地位，想要主世界与平行宇宙并存，以下是你要做的。

So if you wanna decenter love in your twenties, if you wanna have the world and then have the universe on the side, here's what you're gonna do.

第一，首先你需要问自己：我是否有爱可以分享？

Number one, firstly, you need to ask yourself, do I have love to share?

我们需要先确保自己的杯子是满的，然后要确保杯中有足够多的爱给予所爱之人，再确保有足够多的爱给予你在乎的事物。

We need to make sure our own cup is filled up first, then you need to make sure you have enough in your cup to give to your loved ones, then you need to make sure you have enough in your cup to give to the things you care about.

如果还有剩余，那么爱情才可以成为优先事项。

And if there is still something left over, then romantic love can be a priority.

这反映了一种我们称之为自我决定理论的观点。

This reflects something that we call self determination theory.

该理论基本概括了我们每个人在任何时候都应满足的三种需求。

And this theory basically maps the three needs that each of us should be fulfilling at any given time.

即对关联感、胜任感和自主感的需求。

The need for relatedness, competence, and autonomy.

我们需要通过友谊和社群来获得关联感。

We need relatedness through friendship and community.

需要通过学习和创造来获得胜任感，并通过能够自主决策来满足自主需求。

We need competence through learning and creativity, and we need autonomy by being able to make our own decisions.

当我们满足这三项需求时，就能对爱情保持清醒的判断，并做出有意识且平衡的选择，决定如何分配自己的时间。

When we are fulfilling these three things, we can be discerning about love, and we can be discerning and make a conscious balanced choice about what we are choosing to spend our time on.

如果你的杯子没有满溢，我不认为爱情能让它继续流淌。

If your cup is not overflowing, I don't think that romantic love is gonna make it flow anymore.

如果你的杯子尚未满溢而你渴望如此，我想告诉你如何实现这个目标。

And if your cup is not overflowing and you want it to be, wanna tell you how you can make that so.

你该如何给予自己更多——我猜是更多的自我滋养，更多的给予他人，更多的赋予生命意义？

How can you give yourself, I guess, more to give, more to give yourself, more to give others, more to give your life?

这就是你要做的事。

This is the thing you're gonna do.

你将选择一个'修行'挑战。

You are going to pick a musogi challenge.

'修行'是一个日语术语，本质上类似于神道仪式，人们会进行神圣的瀑布朝圣之旅。

Now musogi is a Japanese term that is basically like a Shinto ritual where people would take, like, a sacred sacred pilgrimage to a waterfall.

这是一种自我挑战的方式，然后他们会在瀑布下净化自己。

It was a way to challenge themselves, and then they would, like, purify themselves under the water.

这是日本传统意义上的'禊'（misogi）。

That's like the traditional version of a misogi in Japan.

现代版的'禊'指的是我们决心投入的一项重大年度挑战，需要为此倾注大量专注与奉献。

A modern misogi refers to a significant year defining challenge that we really wanna commit to and do that requires a lot of focus and devotion on our behalf to this thing.

本质上，这就像与你真正渴望的梦想立下契约，用一整年时间全力以赴。

So, basically, it's like a pact that you make with a dream you really have to just spend a year giving it your all.

'禊'可以是写一本书。

A misogi could be writing a book.

可以是创办播客、跑马拉松、创业、完成多日徒步、考取潜水证、建造某样东西。

It could be starting a podcast, running a marathon, launching a company, completing a multi day hike, getting scuba certified, building something.

其核心在于需要你如同对待一段感情般，付出深刻的承诺与奉献。

And it's basically meant to require deep commitment and dedication from you the same way you might deeply commit and dedicate yourself to a relationship.

我们许多人活得被动，或过度关注约会，只因它像是个值得投入的项目。

So many of us live passively or so many of us focus on dating because it feels like a worthy project.

但当你进行'禊'时，你会拥有激光般的专注力。

But when you have a misogi, you are laser focused.

你有事情要做。

You have things to do.

你有这项任务，这个对你个人意义重大、你真正在乎的目标，没有什么能阻挡你实现它。

You have this task, this goal that is deeply personal to you that you really care about that that nothing can get in the way of.

这种对自我、对实践、对实现梦想的奉献，意味着你的生活中只容得下那种自然发生并为生活增色的爱情。

This devotion to yourself, to a practice, to realizing a dream, it means that you really only have space left in your life for the kind of love that finds you organically and that adds to your life.

你在约会应用上可能遇到的那些反复无常的爱情，或是来自那些没有全心投入的人的爱情，你已经有你的'禊'了。

All these other kinds of love that you may find on a dating app or that may be fickle or may come from people who aren't fully committing, you have your misogi.

比如，你没时间应付那些事情。

Like, you don't have time for those things.

因此，这在某种程度上让你变得非常挑剔，只让美好的爱情进入生活，因为你已经拥有了这份伟大的热爱。

So it allows you in a way to be very discerning and to let only good love in because you've got this big love here.

你有这件全心投入的事情。

You've got this thing you're really dedicated to.

这建议与'培养一个爱好'非常相似。

It's very similar advice to, like, getting a hobby.

对吧？

Right?

这完全是另一个层次。

It's just on a whole new level.

还有一点。

Here's the other thing.

我认为，像修行'misogi'这样的虔诚实践，或是拥有兴趣爱好——那些你可能在上一段关系中失去的、或因为沉迷约会而放弃的兴趣——实际上会让你成为一个更有魅力的人。

I think having a devotional practice like a misogi or having hobbies, having interests that you may have lost in a previous relationship or may have lost to your devotion to dating, it actually makes you a much more magnetic person anyways.

我一次又一次地发现，你越不专注于约会，生活中就越会突然出现值得你爱的人。

Like, what I have found time and time again, the less you focus on dating, the more people, like, suddenly appear in your life who are worthy of of your love.

你可以称之为'超然法则'。

You can call it the law of detachment.

随便你怎么称呼它，但那些忠于自我、纯粹因为热爱而专注做酷事的人，真的非常迷人。

You can call it whatever you want to, but people who are committed to themselves and to doing cool stuff because they want to, that is so hot.

人们会被这种特质深深吸引。

People are deeply attracted to that.

我发现，每当我专注于自身之外的事物，真正致力于创造并做好某件事、做些很酷的事情时，突然环顾四周就会疑惑：为什么突然冒出这么多潜在对象？

And I have found I've found, like, in the times where I've been devoted to something outside of myself and I've been really committed to making something and making something well and doing something cool, like, suddenly you look around and it's like, wait, why are there suddenly all these prospects for me?

为什么会有这么多人？

Like, why are all these people?

这是因为你通过这种经历获得的指导改变了人们对你的看法，改变了你与自我的关系，也改变了你的能量场。

It's because that mentorship that you were experiencing through that changes how people see you and changes how you relate to yourself and just changes your energy field.

我对此深信不疑。

Like, I fully do believe it.

我给二十多岁年轻人关于淡化浪漫主义的第二条建议是：进行约会戒断。

My next tip for decentering romance in your twenties is to have a dating detox.

我知道在播客里已经提过好几次了。

I know I've spoken about this a few times on the podcast.

但我真的不在乎。

I really don't care.

这么做绝对值得。

It's just so worthwhile to do.