367. 金钱如何深刻影响我们的人际关系 特邀嘉宾：杰克·霍华德

这是iHeart播客《保证人性化》。

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.

我是调查记者梅丽莎·杰尔辛。

I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin.

我的新播客《纳什维尔发生了什么》讲述了辅助生殖诊所的灾难性崩溃，以及患者们在随之而来的混乱中团结起来的故事。

My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.

无论我如何抗争，无论我为此流多少泪，无论我们获得多少正义，都无法让我怀孕。

It doesn't matter how much I fight, doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this, it doesn't matter how much justice we get, none of it's gonna get me pregnant.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《纳什维尔发生了什么》。

Listen to what happened in Nashville on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

嗨，凯尔。

Hi Kyle.

你能帮我起草一份简短的文件，

Could you draw up a quick document with

包含基本的商业计划，一页纸就好，用Google文档形式，然后把链接发给我吗？

the basic business plan, just one page, as a Google Doc and send me the link?

谢谢。

Thanks.

嘿，我刚给你写好了那份简短的一页商业计划。

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you.

这是链接。

Here's the link.

但根本没有链接。

But there was no link.

根本没有商业计划。

There was no business plan.

我还没来得及让凯尔具备

I hadn't programmed Kyle to be

完成这项任务的能力。

able to do that yet.

我是埃文·拉蒂夫，为你讲述人工智能时代的企业家故事。

I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age.

听我尝试用虚构的人打造一家真正的初创公司。

Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用程序或您收听播客的任何平台收听我的播客《壳牌游戏》第二季。

Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

父亲传给儿子的那些循环模式是什么？

What are the cycles fathers passed down that sons are left to heal?

如果做男人不是关于强撑一切，而是学会放手呢？

What if being a man wasn't about holding it all together, but learning how to let go?

这是一个男性坦诚倾诉、找到疗愈与转变力量的空间。

This is a space where men speak truth and find the power to heal and transform.

我是迈克·德拉罗查。

I'm Mike Della Rocha.

欢迎来到神圣课程。

Welcome to Sacred Lessons.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《神圣课程》。

Listen to Sacred Lessons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

医生。

Doctor.

这里是幸福实验室的劳里·桑托斯。

Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here.

这是给予的季节，今年我的播客《幸福实验室》与非营利组织GiveDirectly合作，参与“Pods对抗贫困”活动，为极端贫困人口提供他们所需的现金。

It's the season of giving, and this year, my podcast, the Happiness Lab, is partnering with GiveDirectly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need as part of the Pods Fight Poverty campaign.

我们今年的目标是筹集100万美元，这将帮助700多个家庭摆脱极端贫困。

Our goal this year is to raise $1,000,000, which will bring over 700 families out of extreme poverty.

您的捐款将直接以现金形式交到这些需要帮助的家庭手中，他们可以自行决定如何使用，无论是用于上学交通、购买牲畜，还是创业。

Your donation will put cash directly in the hands of these families in need, and they'll get to decide how to use it, whether that's school transportation, purchasing livestock, or starting a business.

此外，如果您是首次捐款者，您的捐赠将由捐赠倍增计划匹配，这意味着能为需要帮助的人提供更多的资金。

Plus, if you're a first time donor, your gift will be matched by giving multiplier, which means more money for those in need.

请访问 givedirectly.org/happinesslab 了解更多信息并进行捐赠。

Visit givedirectly.org/happinesslab to learn more and to donate.

网址是 givedirectly.org/happinesslab。

That's givedirectly.org/happinesslab.

嗨。

Hi.

我是拉迪·德夫卢卡，我是《好好哭一场》播客的主持人。

I'm Radhi Devlukha, and I am the host of A Really Good Cry podcast.

本周，我邀请到了安娜·伦克尔，她也被称为“糟糕童年仙子”，是一位创作者、教师和引导者，帮助人们疗愈来自不安全或混乱童年的持久情感创伤。

This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the crappy childhood fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.

谈论创伤并不总是对人有好处。

Talking about trauma isn't always great for people.

这并不总是最好的做法。

It's not always the best thing.

大约三分之一在童年时期遭受创伤的人，当他们谈论这些经历时，反而会感觉更糟，情绪会严重失衡。

About a third of people who are traumatized as kids feel worse when they talk about it, get very dysregulated.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《好好哭一场》。

Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

大家好。

Hello, everybody.

我是杰玛·斯佩希，欢迎回到《二十岁的心理学》播客，在这里我们将探讨二十岁期间最重要的变化、时刻与转折，以及它们对我们心理的影响。

I'm Gemma Speich, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.

大家好。

Hello, everybody.

欢迎回到本节目。

Welcome back to the show.

欢迎回到本播客。

Welcome back to the podcast.

无论你身在世界何处，无论是新听众还是老听众，很高兴你们再次回来，收听这一期精彩的嘉宾节目。

Wherever you are in the world, new listeners, old listeners, it is so great to have you here back for another amazing guest episode.

如果我要选两个在二十岁阶段大家问得最多的主题，那毫无疑问是爱情和金钱。

If I had to pick two categories that I think I get the most questions about when it comes to our twenties, it would no doubt be love and money.

尽管我们可能认为这两个话题是独立的、不同的，但它们实际上紧密相连。

And although we might view those as separate topics, separate ideas, they are actually deeply linked.

我们对金钱的看法会影响我们如何约会、与谁约会，我们的爱情故事会如何发展；而我们对爱情的看法，也会影响我们忽视哪些金钱问题、金钱分歧或价值观差异。

How we think about money, it affects how we date, who we date, how our love stories turn out, and how we think about love will impact what money problems, money issues, money value differences we may overlook.

所以今天，我们来谈谈金钱、关系和心理学的交集。

So today, let's talk about the intersection of money, relationships, and psychology.

从婚前协议到婚礼应该花多少钱，是否以及何时应该开设联名银行账户，为什么你真的需要理解自己的金钱故事，才能真正投入到一段关系中。

Everything from prenups to how much you should spend on a wedding, if and when you should get joint bank accounts, and why you really need to understand your money story to really show up in your relationship.

当然，我不是金融专家，但我今天请来了一位专家，他不仅是金融专家，还是爱情与金钱领域的专家。

Of course, I am not a financial expert, but I do have someone joining me today who is, and who is not only a financial expert, but an expert in love and money.

我们开始吧。

Let's get into it.

废话不多说，欢迎杰克·霍华德来到本播客。

Without further ado, Jack Howard, welcome to the podcast.

欢迎来到你的二十多岁的心理学。

Welcome to the psychology of your twenties.

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢你的邀请。

Thank you for having me.

我们刚才就在聊这个。

We were just talking about this.

我们的时差简直太极端了。

We have the most desperate time zones.

你在底特律。

You're in Detroit.

我在悉尼，但我们还是设法让这一切顺利进行。

I'm in Sydney, and we've managed to make it work.

所以谢谢你。

So thank you.

谢谢你。

Thank you

科技在这个时刻为我们提供了帮助。

for of technology is working for us in this moment.

什么？

It's what?

这里是底特律，早上6点，晚上6点。

06:00, 6PM here in Detroit.

我知道你们那边是早上。

I know it's morning for you.

所以你们才刚开始一天。

So you're just getting your day started.

我快要结束了。

I'm about to wrap it up.

我知道。

I know.

未来看起来很不错。

It looks pretty good in the future.

我要说的是11月7日，也就是我们录制这段内容的日子，明天。

I will say the November 7, which is when we're recording this, which is tomorrow.

这是美好的一天。

It's a good day.

在我继续之前，因为我马上就要开始提问了，我需要让听众更多地了解你、你的身份以及你了不起的工作。

Before I go any further, because I'm gonna just jump into my questions, and I need the listeners to know a little bit more about you and who you are and your amazing work.

是的。

Yeah.

我是杰克·霍华德。

So I'm Jack Howard.

我担任 Ally 银行的财务健康负责人。

I serve as head of money wellness for Ally Bank.

你可能在想，这是什么职位？

And I bet you're thinking like, what is that?

这是个什么头衔？

What title is that?

以前从来没听过，这其实是一个我担任了大约两年的非常棒的职位。

Never heard of it before and it's a really amazing role that I've been in for about two years.

我有幸在 Ally 工作了十五年，担任过各种角色，包括企业慈善事业，我专注于为服务不足的社区提供金融教育，以及企业慈善和员工志愿服务。

I've had the pleasure of working for Ally for fifteen years in various roles, everything from our corporate giving where I focused on financial education for underserved communities and corporate giving and employee volunteerism.

我大部分时间都在做这件事。

I did that for a big chunk of my time.

然后我转到了我们的投资业务部门，担任该部门总裁的首席幕僚，这是一个挑战性的角色，之后我决定留下来，帮助推出我们的个人理财咨询服务，让你能与一位个人财富顾问合作，共同规划退休生活。

And then I moved to our invest business where I did a stretch role as chief of staff for the president there and decided to stay and, help launch our, personal advice business where you work with a personal, you know, wealth advisor to help you to think through retirement.

正是在职业生涯的这一阶段，我接触到了金钱心理学。

And it was during that piece of my career where I was introduced to money psychology.

当你能更好地与自己的价值观和情绪保持一致，并真正理解你在金钱决策背后的行为模式时，你就更容易坚持计划。

When you're better aligned to your values, your emotions emotions and really understand the behaviors that you have behind some of your money decisions, it just helps you to stick to the plan.

我对此着迷不已，因为我们经常会问一个问题：你对金钱的最初记忆是什么？

And I fell in love with it so much because one of the questions we will ask is what is your first memory of money?

无论是从职业角度还是个人角度，这个问题都让我觉得非常棒，因为它解答了我从金融素养工作中积累的诸多疑问，也让我更深刻地理解了自己在金钱上的起落，明白了做出金钱决策背后的真正原因，以及你试图实践的技能。

And for me professionally and personally, it was such an amazing question because it answered so much from the work that I had done in financial literacy to even personally the ups and downs that I've had with money of really understanding the why behind your money decisions, the skills that you try to implement.

很多人即使知道该怎么做，也很难真正付诸实践。

A lot of people just have a hard time implementing the skills even though you know the right thing to do.

我在那个岗位上待了一段时间，再次因为对金钱心理学的深深着迷，我向我们的领导层提出：我认为这正是未来人们谈论金钱的方式。

So I was in that role for a bit and again, I fell in love with the money psychology so much that I went to our leadership and said, you know, I think this is really the future of how people will talk about money.

我认为这是银行与客户互动的未来。

I think it's the future of how banks will interact with customers.

所以，少一些技能。

So less of the skills.

是的，你必须知道如何储蓄、如何投资，我可以教你如何做预算，所有这些事情。

Yes, you have to know how to save, how to invest, I can teach you how to do a budget, all those things.

但真正理解那些情绪和行为，它们能帮助你落实这些技能，建立更好的金钱关系，我认为这才是我们未来谈论金钱的方式。他们说：好吧，证明给我们看。

But really understanding that those emotions and the behaviors that will help you to implement the skills, having a better relationship with money, I think is the future of how we will talk about it and they said, okay, prove it.

于是我获得了机会开始这个角色，最近我们推出了一项免费的财务健康计划，名为“Money Roots”，我们通过四个不同的工作坊再次教授如何建立更好的金钱关系。

And I was given the opportunity to start this role and most recently we created a free financial wellness program called Money Roots where we teach again, having a better relationship with money with four different workshops.

我相信我们会更深入地讨论这个话题。

And I'm sure we'll get into that more.

但这就是我的职业历程，也是我目前的职位。

But that's kind of been my journey and that's my current role.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我喜欢你做了这么多不同的事情。

I love how you've just done so many different things.

是的。

Like Yes.

而且这一切似乎都围绕着一个愿望，那就是通过金钱如何成为他们的工具来更好地理解人。

And how it's all just linked back to this what it sounds like, this, like, desire to understand people better through how, like, money is a tool for them.

对吧？

Right?

还有这种心理层面的因素。

And this, like, will feel, like, psychological element of it.

我觉得这源于我二十多岁的时候。

And, you know, I think it stemmed from in my twenties.

我当时在理财方面一团糟，大学毕业时背了大约3万美元的学生贷款和信用卡债务，从那时起，我开始对金钱的技能层面，尤其是信用卡，产生了浓厚的兴趣。

I was horrible at money and I graduated from college with about $30,000 in student loan debt and credit card debt and from graduating really became passionate about just having a better understanding of the skill based side of money, specifically with credit cards.

但随着时间推移，我陷入了恶性循环：赚钱、产生信用卡债务，然后还清债务。

But as time continued, I was in this hamster wheel of, making money, creating credit card debt and then paying it off.

我在30多岁期间一直这样做，直到我的财务旅程和职业旅程中触及到金钱心理学这一部分，我才真正找到了自己这样做的根源。

So I did that through my 30s and it really wasn't until this money psychology piece of my financial journey and professional journey where I really got to the root of why do I do this?

我为什么会对钱做这些事？

Why do I do the things that I do with money?

现在我可以设立一些界限，帮助自己取得更大的成功。

And now I can put up guardrails to help me to be more successful.

这确实是一段旅程，我也非常兴奋能与大家分享。

So it's definitely been a journey and one that I'm so excited to share with everybody else.

关于你刚才提到的这一点，我有个问题想问你。

I have a question for you about that piece you just mentioned.

你大学毕业时，背负了债务。

You graduated college, you had you had this debt.

当时，你认为自己最大的金钱错误是什么？

At the time, what do you think your biggest money mistake was?

我认为我最大的错误深深植根于我的金钱故事。

I think my biggest so mine is deeply rooted in my money story.

我那时最大的错误就是没有意识到，尤其是信用卡债务，我为什么会欠下信用卡债务。

My biggest mistake then is just not realizing specifically for the credit card debt, why I was creating credit card debt.

对我来说，这源于大量情绪性消费，我们如今在年轻人身上依然能看到这种现象——害怕错过、社交媒体的影响，让你想要跟上别人的步伐。

And for me, it was grounded in a lot of emotional spending, which we're seeing in young people still, we have this fear of missing out and social media, you want to keep up with other people.

但对我而言，这是源于童年时期从社会和父母那里习得的信念，所有这些因素共同塑造了这样的我：我会花钱并制造债务。

But for me, was emotional spending from childhood beliefs that I had learned from society and my parents, all of those things created this version of me where I would spend and create debt.

所以我认为，我学到的最重要的教训是，如果需要心理咨询，没有任何金额的钱能解决你的问题，对吧？

So I think the biggest lesson I've learned that I wish I would have known then is that there is no amount of money that can solve your issues when you need therapy, right?

当你需要情感支持时，没有哪个钱包、没有哪次度假能替代它。

When you need emotional support for things, there's no purse, there's no vacation.

当你有一些深层问题需要额外支持时，你必须直面它们，而很多时候，我们会用金钱或食物来作为逃避的手段。

When you have some root issues that require additional support, you have to address that and oftentimes with money or food, we will use these things to serve as a distraction.

所以我会对自己说，让我们摆脱这些干扰，真正直面一些根本问题，这样我们才能更好地建立与金钱的关系。

So I would tell myself, you know, let's get rid of the distractions, really address some of our root issues so that we can now show up better with our relationship with money.

说到关系，我今天真正想和你讨论的是，我们在二十多岁时金钱与人际关系的交集。

Speaking of relationships, what we really what I really want to talk to you about today is the intersection between money and relationships in our 20s.

关于婚姻，是的，但还包括财务兼容性，以及金钱如何以多种方式影响爱情。

Around marriage, yes, but also just around financial compatibility and and how money actually impacts love in many, many ways.

我们先从这个问题开始。

Let's start with this question.

在一段关系中，财务兼容性有多重要？

How important is financial compatibility in a relationship?

好的。

Okay.

我喜欢这个问题。

So I love this question.

我们在'Money Roots'课程中开设了一门课，叫做'爱与金钱'，深入探讨你刚刚提到的这一点。

One of the classes that we teach in Money Roots, it's it's really it's called love and money, where we go deep into the very thing you just said.

我们会深入探讨，你和你的伴侣各自对金钱持有怎样的信念？

We go deep into for you and your romantic partner, what are the beliefs that you have and your partner has?

你们从家庭和社会中学到了哪些关于金钱的东西？

What are the things that you learned about money from your family and from society?

那么，这些差异在你们的关系中是如何体现的呢？

And then how does this show up in your relationship?

所以大多数人并不具备财务上的兼容性。

So most people don't have compatibility.

不知为何，你们可能会遇到异性相吸的情况。

You will have for whatever reason opposites attract.

你们可能一个是挥霍者，一个是储蓄者，一个是照顾者，或者是一个回避者。

You may have the spender and the saver, a nurturer or somebody who's an avoider.

我们每个人都有这些金钱性格。

We all have these money personalities.

首先，了解自己的性格很重要，但我想让每个人都避免对自己的金钱性格感到羞耻。

So one, it's important to know kind of what your personality is, but I want everyone to avoid shame around whatever your money personality is.

坦白说，我和我的伴侣从大学毕业后就在一起了，他更倾向于储蓄，而我更倾向于消费。在我的二十多岁里，我对自己是个挥霍者感到非常羞愧，总想变得像他一样节俭，但那并不是真实的我。

So I'll be honest and say for me and my partner who I've been with since I graduated from college, he is more of a saver, I'm more of a spender and I think throughout my 20s, I had so much shame around being a spender and I wanted to be frugal like him, but that's not who I am.

我是个挥霍者，我是个挥霍者。

I'm a spender, I'm a spender.

直到我通过你的金钱故事，真正与你的金钱价值观达成一致，我才达到了理解的境界。

So it wasn't until I got to a place of understanding through your money story, through really getting very aligned with your money values.

正是在这种情况下，兼容性才可能发挥作用，因为即使你们是相反的，但当你理解了伴侣的金钱故事和价值观时，就会对这些差异产生同理心。

That's where having compatibility can come into play because you can be opposites but when you understand your partner's money story, you understand your partner's values, it creates empathy for the differences.

所以，这不再关乎谁节俭谁抠门、谁是挥霍者谁又过度消费，而是转变为：哦，我明白了她为什么是这样。

So it's less about your frugal and cheap and I'm a spender and you're overspending on everything, the bumping of heads to more of, oh, I understand why she is that way.

我明白了他为什么是这样。

I understand why he is that way.

现在，我们能够作为一对伴侣，共同建立兼容性。

And now we're able to come together as a couple and create compatibility.

现在，我们可以带着无羞耻感和同理心走到一起，明白你是这样的人，我是这样的人，我们该如何共同前行，建立属于我们自己的金钱价值观？

Now we can come together without shame, with empathy to say, knowing that you're this person, I'm this person, how do we move forward together to create our own value system around money?

这实际上正是我们在‘金钱之根’课程中教授的内容——爱与金钱。

And that's actually something that we teach in our Money Roots class, the love and money.

我们会引导你理解自己的金钱性格和价值观，然后探讨如何共同前进，创造属于你们的体系。

We actually take you through understanding what that personality is, what your values are, and then how do we move forward to create something together.

当你谈到你的伴侣时，我觉得这听起来很熟悉。

When you were talking about your partner, was like, that's a familiar story.

我和我的伴侣也是一样。

Me and my partner are the same.

是的。

Yeah.

对我来说，一直都是这样。

It's always been that way for me.

比如，钱这个问题，它真的充满情感。

Like, money was again, it's just such an emotional thing.

所以，自然地，它会反映在你的关系中。

And so, of course, it's gonna be, like, reflected and show up in your relationship.

当然，也会有那么一些时候，会想：到底是什么？

And, of course, there's gonna be times when like, what is it?

钱往往是夫妻争吵最多的主题。

Like, money is the thing that couples argue about the most.

是的。

Yes.

我听到你说的是，你不一定需要做出太多改变。

What I'm hearing you say is, like, you don't necessarily have to change all that much.

你只需要理解并找到双方在这段关系中各自该承担的责任的中间点。

You just have to understand and find the middle ground of, like, what are we responsible for in this relationship?

你是不是这个意思？

Is that what you're kinda saying?

是的，我认为确实需要找到一个中间点和界限。

Yeah, so no, I think yeah, definitely finding the middle ground and guardrails.

对我来说，既然我知道自己是个爱花钱的人，我就必须把消费与我的价值观紧密联系起来。

So for me, knowing that I am a spender, I have to deeply attach my spending to my values.

我非常支持基于价值观的消费方式。

So I'm I'm a huge proponent of values based spending.

这意味着，我知道我的核心价值观是非常美好的东西：真实、代际财富，还有我的精神信仰。

And what that means is, I know my top values are really beautiful things, authenticity, generational wealth, and really my spirituality.

所以当我将支出、储蓄和捐赠与我的价值观联系起来时，这就是金钱健康和金钱幸福的一部分，你能获得更高的回报，我称之为‘快乐的更高回报’。

So when I anchor and that's a part of money wellness and money well-being, when you're able to anchor your spending, saving and giving to your values, you get a higher return on what I like to say or higher return on joy.

对我来说，我知道如果我的消费没有与这些价值观挂钩，就要暂停一下，让我们暂停48小时。

So for me, I know that, if a spending, if I'm spending and it doesn't attach to those values, pause, let's pause and give it forty eight hours.

你知道，那条黑色裤子真的足够漂亮吗？

You know, is that black pair of pants beautiful enough?

它符合我对‘美好事物’这一价值观的要求吗？

Does it meet the requirement of my value of really beautiful things?

它符合我对代际财富的要求吗？

Does it meet my requirement for generational wealth?

这曾让我停下了脚步。

And that has stopped me in my tracks.

说实话，这种暂停让我在购物时停下了脚步，因为我会问自己：这符合我的价值观吗？

I'll be honest, that has stopped me in my tracks with buying things because I'll give myself that pause of does this meet my values?

一旦你开始从‘这必须符合我的价值观’的角度消费，你的金钱幸福感就会提升。

And once you start spending from a place of this has to meet my values, it increases your well-being with money.

而对于更节俭的伴侣来说，我们现在把钱看作是一种享受的工具。

And then on the other side for my partner who is more frugal, now we're looking at it like money is a tool for enjoyment.

所以我们得有一个挥霍账户。

So we got to have a splurge account.

我们有一个挥霍账户。

We have a splurge account.

所以它

So it

这迫使他现在明白：是的，我们要储蓄，但也要享受这笔钱。

forces him to now say, yes, we're going to save but we're also going to enjoy the money.

我们已经留出了一笔钱，这样如果我想花100美元买饼干——这是我最新的痴迷，而他想花100美元买乐高——那是他的最新痴迷。

We've set money aside to where if I want to you know spend $100 on cookies because that's my latest obsession and he wants to spend $100 on Legos because that's his latest obsession.

这没问题，因为我们的预算中都留出了这样的弹性空间。

That's okay because we both have that wiggle room within our budget to do so.

所以，再次强调，这是在你们的关系中建立结构，以实现这一点。

So again, it's creating those structures within your relationship to make that happen.

而且还要知道如何进行这样的对话。

And it's also knowing how to have the conversation.

我认为这是人们常常忽略的重要部分。

I think that's a big piece that people are missing.

我觉得我们可以稍后再深入探讨这一点。

Which I feel like we we can get into in a second.

不过在那之前，我想再问一个问题：在长期关系中，或者在二十多岁及以后的关系中，你们如何应对收入不平等的问题？

I wanna ask another question on this, though, before we do, which is how do you deal with inequality in earnings when you're in a long term relationship or you're in a just a relationship in your twenties and beyond?

当一方收入明显高于或低于另一方时，会发生什么？

What happens when one partner makes significantly more money or significantly less money.

我们该如何处理这种对话？

How do we kind of handle that conversation?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为我们必须保持透明。

I think we have to have transparency.

我跟一些人聊过，他们会根据百分比来分配支出，也就是你投入多少就分多少。

I've talked to people where they'll do a split based off of percentages and that's how much you put in.

有些人希望五五分，因为这样让他们感觉有参与感，也可能让他们感到有力量。

And some people wanted to make it fifty-fifty because it makes them feel like they're showing up and it may make you feel powerful.

再次强调，我们需要理解背后的故事，以及你个人的偏好是什么。

Again, we got to understand the story behind that and what is preference for you as an individual.

因此，透明化的一个好方法是所谓的‘金钱约会夜’。

So having the transparency one of love to say money date nights.

我非常支持定期安排金钱约会夜，至少每周一次，每月最少一次，来讨论这些准则，比如：我们是开联名账户还是分开账户？

So I'm a big fan of less schedule money date nights where we can meet once per week at minimum once per month to talk about these things guidelines and go into a having topics of are we going to have joint accounts or split accounts?

我们该如何支付账单？

Are we going to how are we going to pay the bills?

我们如何让我们的价值观和信念保持一致？

How are we going to be compatible with our values and our beliefs?

所以我认为第一步就是进行这些对话，并专门安排时间来做这件事。

So I think the first step is to just have these conversations and setting time aside to do so.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，还要非常现实地考虑一下：如果这个人有某种生活方式，你能跟得上吗？

And also, just being incredibly realistic about like, can if this person has a certain lifestyle, could you keep up?

你能跟上他们想做的事情和想花的钱，同时还能坚持你那五五分摊的方式，或者坚持你要付自己应承担的部分吗？

Like, can you keep up with what they wanna do and what they wanna spend with with still doing the $50.50 thing or with you wanting to pay your fair share?

我觉得我有几个朋友就是处在这样的关系中。

Like, I do feel like I've I have a couple friends who are in relationships like this.

特别是，我想到了一位朋友，她赚的钱比她的伴侣多得多，而他却一直坚决地说：不行。

Specifically, I'm thinking about one friend who she makes a lot more than her partner, and he was always, like, adamant, like, no.

我们要平分所有开销。

We're gonna split everything fifty fifty.

但这样的话，我们就没法做那些我真正想在关系中做的事情了。

And it was like, well, then we can't do the things that I actually wanna do in a relationship.

所以这变得非常复杂，真的让他们陷入了困境。

So it was like this real it actually got very, like, complex with them.

这涉及到男性气质之类的观念，没错。

It was like ideas of masculinity and like Yes.

权力与平等，但同时也关乎享受和体验，以及什么对他们的关系更重要。

Power and equality, but then also like enjoyment and experiences and like what matters more to their relationship.

他们可以继续扮演自己认为在关系中应该扮演的角色，也可以在现有的条件下彼此享受乐趣。

Like, that they can continue to play the role that they think they should play in a relationship or they can have fun with each other with the cards they're dealt.

所以，这确实变得非常非常复杂。

So like, it does get, very, very complex.

我想指出，你刚才说的一切都跟钱无关。

And I just want to call out everything you just said has nothing to do with money.

没错。

Exactly.

跟钱一点关系都没有。

Has nothing to do with money.

你谈的是性别角色、享受，以及我们希望如何共同体验，这跟钱毫无关系。

You talked about no, you talked about gender roles and enjoyment and how do we want to have experiences together has nothing to do with money.

这是完全不同的一个话题。

That's a completely separate conversation.

所以问题在于我们没有进行这些对话，结果就演变成关于金钱的争吵。

So the problem is we don't have those conversations and then it turns into a blow up about money.

因此，当我们考虑金钱约会时，如何与伴侣进行富有成效的对话就显得尤为重要：我的价值观是体验，我确实想环游世界。

So it's so important when we think of the money date night and how do we have productive conversations with your partner to say, my values are experiences and I do want to travel the world.

所以作为伴侣，我们应该这样分配我们的金钱来实现这些目标。

And so as a partnership, we should allocate our money in this way to do these things.

但同样重要的是，要意识到这些对话必须进行，而人们常常回避它们，最终导致争吵。

But again, it's realizing that those conversations need to take place and oftentimes people just avoid it and you're ending up in an argument.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我再重申一下我们开头提到的那个统计数据。

Again, I'm gonna pull back that statistic that we said at the start.

在亲密关系中，金钱是最主要的冲突来源。

It's like the biggest source of conflict in relationships is money.

当你二十多岁、处于一段关系中时，大家都会关注：我们来谈谈依恋风格吧，谈谈我们的未来。

So it's like when you're in your twenties and you're in your relationship, it's like this is everybody focuses on like, oh, let's talk about our attachment styles and let's talk about our our future.

比如，你们想要孩子吗？

Like, do we want kids?

不，不是这个。

Like, no.

你们需要在早期就认真地讨论金钱问题。

You need to have serious conversations about money early on.

这实际上非常重要。

Like, it's actually deeply important.

确实如此。

You do.

你知道吗，我很喜欢我们在Ally所做的工作，以及你将看到的、我希望看到更多出现的金钱心理学和金钱健康运动，那就是把金钱视为你整体福祉的一部分。

You know, the money the what I love about the work we're doing here at Ally and just this whole movement that you're gonna see within, I hope to see more within money psychology and money wellness is looking at money as a part of your well-being.

当你思考你的社交福祉——比如你的友谊，你思考你的社区——你住在哪里，如何支持它？

So when you think of your social well-being, so your friendships, when you think of your community, where do you live and how do you support it?

你的事业、健身和健康，这些都是福祉的方面，当金钱出现问题时，会影响所有这些方面。

Your career, you think of your fitness and your health, those are all areas of well-being and when money is off, it impacts all of that.

当你对金钱不满意时，我们的数据显示，人们会彻夜难眠。

When you are not satisfied with your money, we're seeing through our own data that people are up at night, they can't sleep at night.

这影响了他们的浪漫关系。

It's impacting their romantic partnerships.

因此，从二十多岁开始，不要把金钱视为静态的东西，而要认识到它是你福祉的一部分，在关系中给予它充分的关注至关重要。

So it's so important that even starting in your 20s, not to let money be this static thing, but it is a part of your well-being and to give it its full attention in your relationship is so important.

好的。

Okay.

我们这里要短暂休息一下，但回来后我们将讨论婚前协议。

We're gonna take a short break here, but when we return, we're gonna talk about prenups.

我将谈论

I'm gonna talk about

好的。

Okay.

我们开始吧。

Let's do it.

我们将讨论婚礼。

We're gonna talk about weddings.

请继续关注。

Stay with us.

我是调查记者梅丽莎·耶尔岑。

I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin.

我的新播客《纳什维尔发生了什么》讲述了辅助生殖诊所灾难性崩溃以及患者们在随之而来的混乱中团结起来的故事。

My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.

我们有一些突发新闻要告诉你们。

We have some breaking news to tell you about.

田纳西州总检察长正在起诉一位纳什维尔的医生。

Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor.

2024年4月，一家位于纳什维尔的生育诊所一夜之间关闭，超过一千个冷冻胚胎被锁在了里面。

In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight, and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos.

我吓坏了。

I was terrified.

在我们整个经历中，那是最糟糕的时刻。

Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever.

那时我根本没有意识到接下来会爆发怎样的斗争。

At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow.

但这个故事不仅仅关乎几个家庭的未来。

But this story isn't just about a few families' futures.

它关乎现代生育医疗的承诺是否值得信赖。

It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all.

我抗争多少都没用。

It doesn't matter how much I fight.

我为这一切哭多少都没用。

Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.

我们获得多少正义都没用。

It doesn't matter how much justice we get.

这些都让我无法怀孕。

None of it's going to get me pregnant.

请在 Nashville 的 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听发生了什么。

Listen to what happened in Nashville on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嗨，凯尔。

Hi, Kyle.

你能起草一份

Could you draw up

一份简短的商业计划书，就一页，用 Google 文档，然后把链接发给我吗？

a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page, as a Google Doc and send me the link?

谢谢。

Thanks.

嘿，我刚为你起草好了那页简短的商业计划。

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you.

这是链接。

Here's the link.

但根本没有链接。

But there was no link.

根本没有商业计划。

There was no business plan.

这不怪他。

It's not his fault.

我还没让凯尔具备执行这个任务的能力。

I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.

我叫埃德蒙·拉特利夫。

My name is Edmund Ratliff.

在听了来自OpenAI首席执行官萨姆·阿尔特曼的许多类似言论后，我决定创建我的AI联合创始人凯尔。

I decided to create Kyle, my AI cofounder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

有一个关于第一年出现单人十亿美元公司的赌局，这种事如果没有AI简直是难以想象的，但现在却会发生。

There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one person billion dollar company, which would have been, like, unimaginable without AI, and now will happen.

我开始想，我能成为那个人吗？

I got to thinking, could I be that one person?

我之前为我获奖的播客《Shell Game》制作过AI代理。

I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast, Shell Game.

在《Shell Game》本季中，我正尝试用虚假的人来打造一家拥有真实产品的真正公司。

This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.

嘿，埃文。

Oh, hey, Evan.

很高兴你加入我们。

Good to have you join us.

我找到了一些关于AI代理在中小型企业中采用率的有趣数据。

I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents in small to medium businesses.

在iHeartRadio应用或你收听播客的任何平台收听《Shell Game》。

Listen to Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

你知道，最阴暗的八卦总是就在这里。

You know the shade is always shadiest right here.

播客第六季《合理阴暗》，由吉塞尔·布莱恩和罗宾·迪克森主持，每周一更新。

Season six of the podcast, reasonably shady with Giselle Bryan and Robin Dixon is here dropping every Monday.

作为《波托马克真实主妇》的两位创始成员，我们为你带来所有你能承受的笑声、戏剧和现实新闻。

As two of the founding members of the Real Housewives of Potomac, we're giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle.

你知道我们从不保留，所以每周一快来和我们一起理性或阴暗地聊聊吧。

And you know we don't hold back, so come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday.

我正在 neighborhood 散步。

I was going through a walk in my neighborhood.

嗯。

Mhmm.

突然间，我看到邻居家旁边有个巨大的牌子。

Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house.

嗯。

K.

那个牌子，是的。

The sign Yeah.

上面写着：我的邻居是个凯伦。

Says, my neighbor is a Karen.

不

No

可能。

way.

我笑死了。

I died laughing.

我在想，我必须弄清楚。

I'm like, I have to know.

你在撒谎。

You are lying.

超大的，各位。

Humongous, y'all.

他们闲着没事干。

They had some time on their hands.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听播客的任何平台，收听来自Black Effect Podcast Network的《合理阴暗》。

Listen to reasonably shady from the black effect podcast network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

嗨。

Hi.

我是丹尼·夏皮罗，热门播客《家庭秘密》的主持人。

I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets.

我们在车里，突然放起了《滚石》这首歌，他说歌里有一句是关于你妈妈的。

We were in the car, like a rolling stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother.

我说，什么？

And I said, what?

如果我觉得自己不被接纳，我会选择一个别人无法拥有的身份。

What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have.

我知道半夜发生了一些事，但我记不清具体发生了什么。

I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened.

这些只是我将在即将播出的《家庭秘密》第十三季中呈现的部分感人而重要的故事。

These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming thirteenth season of Family Secrets.

无论你是从第一季就一直陪伴我，还是刚刚加入《家庭秘密》大家庭，我们都非常高兴有你同行。

Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one, or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us.

我将深入探讨秘密那令人惊叹的力量——这些秘密塑造我们的身份、考验我们的关系，并最终揭示我们真正的自我。

I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《家庭秘密》。

Listen to Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎来到《解读女性健康》。

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health.

我是医生。

I'm Doctor.

伊丽莎白·波因特博士，纽约阿德里亚健康研究所女性健康与妇科主任。

Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City.

在这档节目中，我将与顶尖的研究人员和临床专家对话，回答你们最关心的问题，直接为您带来关于女性健康和更年期的权威信息。

On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

百分之百的女性都会经历更年期。

A hundred percent of women go through menopause.

这可能会严重影响我们的生活质量。

It can be such a struggle for our quality of life.

但即使这是自然的，为什么我们要忍受它呢？

But even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it?

人们谈论的症状包括什么都记不住。

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything.

我以前从不会忘记事情。

I never used to forget things.

他们担心一方面自己得了痴呆，另一方面又怀疑自己是否患有多动症。

They're concerned that one, they have dementia, and the other one is, do I have ADHD?

关于大麻和大麻素在改善睡眠方面，有着前所未有的前景。

There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better,

拥有

to have

更少的疼痛、更好的情绪，以及更佳的日常生活。

less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day to day life.

收听由医生主讲的《解读女性健康》。

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Doctor.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你正在收听的任何平台收听伊丽莎白·波因特的节目。

Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening now.

我非常感兴趣的一件事是婚前协议。

Something that I am so fascinated by is prenups.

人们为什么选择签订，以及它们真正意味着什么。

Why people get them, what they really mean.

我真心实意地坦白说。

I genuinely I'm gonna be completely transparent.

我根本不知道婚前协议是什么。

I have no idea what a prenup is.

你能给我们简单解释一下吗？

Can you kind of give us a little bit of an explanation?

是的，本质上它是一份法律文件，列明了你的财务状况和资产。

Yeah, so essentially, it's a legal document that outlines your finances and your assets.

如果婚姻破裂，这些资产将如何处理？

What happens to it should the marriage end?