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这是iHeart播客。
This is an iHeart podcast.
百分百真人参与。
Guaranteed human.
嗨。
Hey.
我是乔尔。
It's Joel.
还有马特。
And Matt.
来自《如何理财》。
From how to money.
如果你的新年决心是终于理顺财务状况，我们全力支持你。
If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back.
物价仍然很高，经济状况也起伏不定。
Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place.
但2026年是你该有意识地行动并取得实质性进展的一年。
But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress.
没错。
That's right.
是的。
Yeah.
每周，我们都会剖析与你财务相关的情况、最值得关注的重要问题，以及那些能带来巨大改变的小举措。
Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference.
自信地开启新的一年。
Kick off the year with confidence.
在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《How to Money》。
Listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
如果心灵控制是真实的呢？
What if mind control is real?
如果你能控制身边任何人的行为，你会拥有怎样的人生？
If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?
你能通过催眠说服某人买一辆车吗？
Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?
当你看着你的车时，你会感受到无比美好的情绪。
When you look at your car, you're gonna become overwhelmed with such good feelings.
你能催眠某人和你发生关系吗？
Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?
我给了她一些建议，让她产生性兴奋。
I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
你能让人加入你的邪教吗？
Can you get someone to join your cult?
有人用神经语言程序学（NLP）来接触我的潜意识。
NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.
《心灵游戏》是一档新播客，探索神经语言程序学（NLP）。
Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neuro linguistic programming.
它是否
Is it
一种自助奇迹，一个可疑的催眠骗局，还是两者兼有？
a self help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both?
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《心灵游戏》。
Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
你知道，我们总说新年新我，但真正的改变始于内心。
You know, we always say new year, new me, but real change starts on the inside.
它始于像关注目标一样关注你的思想和灵魂。
It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals.
关注黑人影响播客网络。
Of checking in on the Black Effect Podcast Network.
在我的播客中，我们讨论心理健康、疗愈、成长，以及你迈向下一个阶段所需的一切——完整而有力量。
And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered.
新年，真实的你。
New year, real you.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《与米歇尔·威廉姆斯对谈》，来自黑人影响播客网络。
Listen to checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
在本季《亲爱的切尔西》，由切尔西·哈纳德主持，我们邀请到了一些非凡的嘉宾，比如库梅尔·南贾尼。
This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani.
我们先聊聊你的猫吧。
Let's start with your cat.
她现在怎么样？
How is she?
她已经不在了。
She is not with us anymore.
她很好。
She Great.
很好。
Great.
真是个不错的开场。
Great way to start.
也许你会哭的。
Maybe you will cry.
罗斯·马修斯。
Ross Matthews.
你知道吗
You know
孩子们总是对我说什么？
what kids always say to me?
你是男孩还是女孩？
Are you a boy or a girl?
天哪。
Oh my god.
一直如此。
All the time.
真有趣。
Funny.
我知道。
I know.
所以我试着在孩子们面前表现得更阳刚一些
So I try to butch it up for kids
这样他们就不会困惑了。
so they're not confused.
是的。
Yeah.
但你这样表现得阳刚，其实就像一个好女人。
But the you're butching it up is basically like an a good woman.
多丽丝·戴。
Doris Day.
对吧？
Right?
不对。
No.
我会变成贝·亚瑟。
I turn into Be Arthur.
请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您常用的播客平台收听《亲爱的切尔西》这一节目。
Listen to these episodes of dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
大家好。
Hello, everybody.
我是杰玛·斯派克，欢迎回到《二十多岁的心理学》播客，在这里我们会探讨二十多岁人生中最重要的变化、时刻与转折，以及它们对心理的影响。
I'm Gemma Spike, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.
大家好。
Hello, everybody.
欢迎回到节目。
Welcome back to the show.
欢迎回到播客。
Welcome back to the podcast.
很高兴你能再次回来，和我们一起继续剖析二十多岁的心理学。
It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of your twenties.
今天，我们来聊聊变化。
Today, let's talk about change.
让我们谈谈过渡期。
Let's talk about transitional periods.
让我们谈谈成长与进步，比如我们在二十多岁时经历的巨大转变。
Let's talk about growth, progress, like the huge shifts that we experience in our twenties.
那些正处于新事物边缘的时刻，感觉非常令人兴奋。
These moments that are on, like, the precipice of something new feel very exciting.
它们感觉非常浪漫。
They feel very romantic.
它们感觉非常刺激。
They feel very thrilling.
但说实话，变化听起来在理论上非常有趣，但在实践中有时却极其糟糕和痛苦。
But let's be honest, change is one of those things that I think sounds super fun in theory, but is sometimes absolutely horrible and painful in practice.
事实上，有时候我觉得它真的很糟糕，让我们非常希望一切能保持原样。
In fact, at times, it I think it really sucks, and it has us really wishing that we'd stayed the same.
我们每个人都有对如何改变生活或过上理想生活的憧憬。
We all have ambitions for kind of, like, the ways we like to change our lives or like to live our lives.
我们想要一份新工作。
We want a new job.
我们想搬到一座新城市。
We wanna move to a new city.
我们想要更好的友谊。
We want better friendships.
无论你目标清单上是什么，有趣的是，当真正实现改变的机会出现时，我们却退缩了。
Whatever it is that's currently on your goal list, it's funny that often the the second, like, a real opportunity to enact that occurs or to make change happen appears, we shrink.
我们找到了很多不去做的理由。
And we find a lot of reasons not to do it.
我们觉得自己还没准备好。
We don't feel prepared.
我们突然开始破坏自己的习惯和动力。
We suddenly find ourselves sabotaging our habits and our momentum.
我们说服自己无法写作，而实际上我们马上就要动笔了。
We convince ourselves we can't write when we're actually about to.
前几天我其实和一个朋友聊过这个话题，她有一份特别糟糕、可怕的工作，简直就是职场霸凌。
I was actually speaking to a friend about this the other day who has, like, this terrible, horrible job, like, downright workplace bullying situation.
她已经准备好离开了。
She's ready to get out.
她真的想走。
She's ready to leave.
但她一直在更新简历，我说这话是出于关心。
But she's been working on her resume, and I'm saying this with love.
她知道我在说这件事，但她已经花了三个月时间写简历，却连一份工作都没投过。
She knows I'm sharing this, but she'd been working on her resume for three months now and hasn't applied for a single job yet.
我对她说，你知道吗，我问了她。
And I said to her, you know, I was I asked her.
我说，莉芙，你至少得投一下，哪怕只是练手也好。
Was like, Liv, like, you've just got to apply even if it's just for practice.
你明明知道可能会被拒绝，那为什么就不投呢？
Why aren't you just applying even if you know you're gonna get rejected?
她却说，那如果我真的得到了这份工作怎么办？
And she was like, well, what if I actually get the job?
如果我得到了工作，却还没准备好，我的整个人生都变了，我还没做好准备怎么办？
What if I get the job and I'm not ready and my whole life changes and I'm not prepared yet?
我们说的就是这个。
This is what we're talking about.
这种惰性，这种恐惧。
This inertia, this fear.
为什么会这样？
Why does this happen?
为什么我们会抗拒改变，尤其是在二十多岁的时候？按周围人和比我们年长的人的说法，我们这时候应该拥有无穷的勇气和目标。
Why do we resist change, especially in our twenties when we should supposedly, according to what everyone around us and older than us is saying, when we should have all the nerve and all the goals in the world.
在这期节目中，我想剖析这种矛盾背后深层的心理机制——渴望成长，却又同样执着于维持现状。
In this episode, I want to unpack the very deep psychology behind this paradox, the paradox of wanting to grow but equally clinging to what is the same.
这是否反映了我们的性格？
Does this say something about our character?
这是个人缺陷吗？
Is it a personal flaw?
这是人类的本能吗？
Is it a human instinct?
这是焦虑吗？
Is it anxiety?
还是完全是别的东西？
Is it something else entirely?
我会给你一些答案。
I'm gonna give you some of the answers.
我们会探讨为什么这种恐惧在二十多岁时特别强烈，为什么我们如此害怕失去已经拥有的东西，以及我们可能在悄悄失去什么，还有当我们选择一成不变、固守现状时，从科学、数学和心理学角度来说，我们究竟可能失去更多什么。
We'll look at why this specifically feels so scary in our twenties, why we're so afraid of losing what we already have, and what we might actually be quietly losing and how we might actually be losing more scientifically, mathematically, psychologically by choosing the same old, by staying the same.
到目前为止，我在二十多岁中学到的是，一些最好的决定往往也是最让我们恐惧的决定，因此我想进一步深入探讨这一点，也希望说服你。
I've learned in my twenties so far that some of the very best decisions are also the ones that terrify us the most, so I wanna interrogate that a little bit further and hopefully convince you as well.
闲话少说，我们开始吧。
Without further ado, let's get into it.
所以，为了让我们先有个开始，我们来看看是什么让改变如此可怕，尤其是在二十多岁的时候。
So to kind of start us off, let's look at what it is about change that feels so scary, especially in our twenties.
首先，我认为在这个十年里，改变之所以特别令人压力山大，是因为我们周围充满了太多变化。
Firstly, I think change feels particularly stressful during this decade because we're just surrounded by so much of it.
对吧？
Right?
我们简直被变化淹没了。
We're kind of drowning in it.
我们从未得到过喘息的机会。
We never get a break from it.
因此，很难不害怕更多的变化，尤其是那种可能随时突然降临到你身上的变化。
So it's hard to not fear more of it, especially the kind that could be randomly thrust on you at any given moment.
在播客中反复出现的一个非常相关的理论是阿尔诺的‘成年初期’概念，它涵盖了从青春期后期一直到二十多岁末期。
A really relevant theory that comes up time and time again on the podcast is Arnaud's concept of emerging adulthood, which spans basically the late teens through the through to the end of our twenties.
通常，如果我问你，人类的发展阶段有哪些，你可能会说童年、青少年时期、成年期、晚年。
Typically, if I was to ask you, you know, what are the developmental life stages of being a human, you would probably say childhood, teen years, adulthood, late adulthood.
但成年初期指的是一种几乎成年但又不完全成年的独特人生阶段，一切都处于中间状态。
But emerging adulthood points to this distinct life stage of, like, almost adulthood where everything is kind of in between.
你知道，你不再是青少年了，但你也感觉不到自己已经稳定下来，尤其是不像小时候所想象的那种样子。
You know, you're no longer a teenager, but you also don't feel like a settled version of yourself, especially not the kind that you kind of imagined as a child.
你知道，小时候我真以为我现在已经结婚并有了自己的孩子。
You know, when I was a kid, I genuinely thought that I'd be married with my own kids by now.
我当时在想什么？
And what was I thinking?
我甚至还不知道自己究竟是个什么样的人。
I don't even know who I am as a person yet.
成年初期这段时期为我们准备了几场关键的挑战。
This period of emerging adulthood has a few key battles in store for us.
身份探索、不稳定、处于中间状态、孤独与失去。
Identity exploration, instability, feeling in between, loneliness, and loss.
因为要面对这些挑战，经历这些人生里程碑，我每过六个月，至少在二十多岁的每个阶段，都像是一个完全全新的人。
It feels like because of all these battles we're facing, because of all these milestones we're going through, every six months of my twenties at least, I'm like an entirely new person.
每六个月，我都感觉自己完全重生了。
Every six months, I feel like I'm just completely reborn.
比如，2025年初的我跟现在的我，我真心觉得我们俩甚至很难进行一场对话。
Like, Gemma in early twenty twenty five versus now, I honestly think that me and her would struggle to even have a conversation.
举个例子，你回想一下过去一年的生活。
Just for for example, for you, think back over the last year of your life.
由于人生在这个特殊阶段变化得太快，你很可能已经无法认同一年前的自己了。
There are parts of yourself from only twelve months ago that you probably can't relate to anymore because of how rapidly our lives change during this distinct period of life.
这种情感和心理环境意味着，当另一个重大变化到来时，即使是个积极的变化，你也不会觉得它是一种有趣的事或小小的升级。
The emotional and the psychological environment this creates means that when another big change comes along, even a positive one, you don't necessarily experience it as a fun thing or a fun little upgrade.
每当我的生活中发生改变，即使是好的变化，我第一反应就是：我该怎么把这件事安排进去？
The first thing I know my mind goes to when change is happening in my life, even good change, is like, how the hell am I gonna fit this in?
我该怎么适应这个变化？
How am I gonna adapt to this?
我准备好迎接这个了吗？
Am I ready for this?
我有空间吗？
Do I have the space?
我妈妈总是对我说，即使是好的压力，也仍然是压力。
It's something that, like, my mom always said to me, which is that even good stress is still stress.
这其中存在着一种认知超载的成分。
There's an element of of cognitive overload going on.
我们被迫同时应对这么多事情，以至于有时很难对主动选择的改变感到兴奋或有动力，因为我们根本没有足够的精力。
We're balancing so much involuntarily that sometimes it's hard to get excited or motivated by the change we choose because we just don't have the energy.
这就是二十多岁的解释。
That's the twenties explanation.
这就是为什么在这一十年、在这种情况下，我们常常会远离改变。
That's why we specifically often, you know, fall away from change during this decade and under these circumstances.
这是更人性化的解释。
Here is the more human explanation.
简单来说，作为人类，我们的杏仁核到前额叶皮层都倾向于追求连贯性，希望自己的人生故事有逻辑，大致知道自己从哪里来、现在在哪里、将要去向何方。
Simply put, we as humans are wired from our amygdala to our frontal lobe to prefer coherence, to prefer a sense that our life story makes sense, that we know kind of roughly where we are going, roughly where we've been, roughly where we are now.
这种非常基本的稳定感对于维持内稳态至关重要，这是我们身体系统自然的平衡状态，让我们在感到足够安全时能够正常运作。
This, you know, very rudimentary sense of stability is really important for maintaining homeostasis, the natural equilibrium of our systems that allows us to function because we feel safe enough.
我最近听到的一个说法是，你的大脑并不在乎你是否在成长。
Something that I heard recently is like your brain doesn't care if you're growing.
你的大脑并不在乎你是否感到满足。
Your brain doesn't care if you're fulfilled.
它真的只在乎你是否安全。
It literally only cares that you are safe.
我就不用进化论的视角来烦大家了，因为我想我们现在都明白了，但任何未知的事物——变化带来的任何未知——都预示着危险，会触发一系列基于压力的反应，旨在让你的身体迅速采取行动。
I'm not gonna bore you guys with the evolutionary perspective because I think we all know it by now, but anything unknown anything unknown that change brings signals danger, triggering a whole set of stress based reactions that are meant to shock your body into action.
这些反应也会耗尽你的身体。
These reactions also exhaust your body.
因此，我们非常聪明的系统学会了预测那些会引起如此大震动的事物，并对它们感到恐惧，对变化感到恐惧。
And so our our very smart systems learn to anticipate things that are gonna cause this much of a shakeup and to be fearful of them, to be fearful of change.
相比之下，已知的事物显然预示着安全，因此也就提供了我们身体正常运作所需的平和与宁静的条件。
In contrast, the known obviously signals safety and therefore the peace peaceful and calm conditions our body needs to function properly.
当然，我们会更倾向于第二种状态，更倾向于已知的平静、稳定与安全，即使这意味着我们不会真正地挑战自己。
We are, of course, going to lean more towards that second state, more towards known peace, stability, safety, even if that means not really pushing ourselves.
问题是，我们的身体对这种稳态的执着常常适得其反，因为它会让我们自动抗拒新事物，即使这些新事物对我们有益。
The thing is, our body's dedication to this homeostasis often works against us because it asks us to automatically resist new things even if those things are good for us.
在很多方面，你的大脑天生就希望你保持不变。
Your mind is, in many ways, hardwired to want you to stay the same.
它不愿意毫无理由地消耗能量。
It doesn't want to expend energy for no good reason.
它对自己的现状非常满意，因为它知道一切都在掌控之中。
It's really happy how it is because it knows what's going on.
关于这一点，已经做了无数项研究。
They have done study after study on this.
只要你要求身体做出改变，它就会死死抵抗。
Your body, as soon as you ask it to change, is going to dig its heels in.
这就是为什么减肥如此困难的原因。
That is why weight loss is so hard.
这就是为什么戒除成瘾物质如此困难。
That is why quitting substances is so hard.
这就是为什么打破关系模式如此困难。
That is why undoing relationship patterns is so hard.
你的大脑就像一辆车把坏了的自行车，总是不由自主地把你往你不想要的方向带。
Your brain is like a bike with broken handlebars that, like, keeps steering you back in the direction you don't wanna go.
你必须不断强行把它拉回你选择的道路上。
You have to keep forcibly moving it back onto the path that you've chosen.
它确实通过生理上的抗拒来实现这一点，但主要通过影响我们对所有新情况的评估，让我们预期最坏的结果。
It does this, yes, through literal biological resistance, but mainly by influencing our appraisal of any and all new situations so that we expect the worst.
在行为经济学中，丹尼尔·卡尼曼和阿莫斯·特沃斯基提出了所谓的前景理论。
In behavioural economics, Daniel Kaumann and Amos Traversky developed something called the prospect theory.
他们在20世纪70年代提出了这一理论，本质上揭示了人类对收益和损失的评估并不均衡。
They developed this back in the 1970s, and they essentially showed that humans do not evaluate gains and losses in a balanced way.
我们通常会尽可能避免损失。
We typically want to avoid loss as much as possible.
因此，我们的注意力过度集中在变化会给我们带来的损失上。
So our focus is disproportionately on what kind of losses change is going to bring us.
我们对那些令人恐惧、可能失去的事物的评估，远大于对可能获得收益的评估，即使损失和收益实际上是相等的。
There is a larger assessment of those things that are scary and that we could lose versus what we have to gain even if the losses and gains are equal.
即使我们实际上能获得更多，大脑仍会非理性地反复回到我们可能失去的东西上。
Even if we actually have more to gain, irrationally, brain still keeps going back to what we have to lose.
例如，我来给你一些支持这一观点的研究。
For example, I'll give you some research that backs this up.
研究表明，在实验条件下，参与者最初获得50个代币，随后要么额外获得10个代币，要么被随机拿走10个代币；之后当被问及你认为自己在这次情境中损失或获得了多少比例时？
Research has shown that in an experimental condition where people are given 50 tokens to begin and they either gain 10 additional tokens or have 10 tokens randomly taken away, later on when they're asked to estimate, you know, what proportion, what percentage do you think you lost or or gained in this situation?
那些被拿走10个代币的人认为自己损失了比实际多出近15%的量，而那些获得额外代币的人通常能更准确地估算。
The people who had 10 tokens taken away suggested they had lost almost 15% more than they actually had, whereas those who had gained extras usually estimated it more accurately.
他们通常会说，嗯，大概10%，大概5%到10%左右，具体是多少都行。
They usually were like, yeah, around 10, around around 5%, around 10%, whatever it was.
这些人并不是数学不好。
These people weren't just bad at math.
对吧？
Right?
这实际上表明，我们的大脑会聚焦、放大并扭曲我们对可能失去之物的感知。
What it's really showing is that our brains focus, expand, skew our perception of what we have to lose.
这意味着，当我们面对不确定性和变化时，即使是积极的变化，对可能出错的担忧也往往会远超对好事发生的期待。
This means that when we encounter situations of uncertainty and change, even good change, anticipation for what may go wrong will often be so much greater than our excitement for the possibility of what will go right.
这促成了我们所熟知的现状偏见。
This contributes to what we know as the status quo bias.
基本上，即使现状并不完美，我们仍更愿意维持现状，因为变化感觉风险太高、负担太重。
Basically, we'd rather stick with how things are even if they're not amazing because change feels too risky and too much of a burden.
实际上，上世纪八十年代有一篇非常著名的论文探讨了这一点。
There's actually quite a famous paper from the eighties that explores this.
它发表在《风险与不确定性杂志》上。
It was published in the Journal of Risk and Uncertainty.
本质上，在一系列决策实验中，当参与者被赋予一个默认选项时，即使替代选项客观上更好，他们仍 disproportionately 坚持选择默认选项。
And essentially, in a series of these decision making experiments where participants were given a default option, they disproportionately stuck with that option even when the alternatives were objectively better.
他们本可以赢20美元。
They would they could win $20.
他们本可以赢得奖品。
They could win prizes.
他们也可能输掉10美元，但他们实际上哪一种都没选。
They could also lose $10, but they actually went for neither of those things.
他们不想赢20美元。
They didn't wanna win 20.
他们不想输10美元。
They didn't wanna lose 10.
他们只是什么都没做。
They just did nothing.
他们坚持了自己原有的选择。
They stuck with what they had.
现在，如果我们把这个行为模式应用到我们的实际生活中，想一想。
Now if we apply this pattern of behavior to our actual lives, think about it.
你可能正在一份还不错的工作中。
You might be in a job that's alright.
这没问题。
It's okay.
你知道这份工作能付房租。
You know what pays the rent.
它能支付你的车贷。
It pays for your car payment.
你知道自己大致在做什么。
You know, you sort of know what you're doing.
你有一些可以聊天的同事。
You have colleagues you chat to.
但内心深处，你知道自己并没有成长。
But deep down, you know you're not growing.
你知道自己有一部分感觉被困住了。
You know a part of you feels stuck.
然后另一个机会出现了。
And then another opportunity appears.
这是一个不同的职位。
It's a different role.
也许是在不同的城市，也许是不同的领域。
Maybe it's in a different city, maybe a different field.
从纸面上看，它更好。
On paper, it's better.
但你的大脑并不会把稳定的工作和更好的工作区分开来。
But your brain doesn't see stable job versus better job.
相反，它将这解读为失去安全感、失去熟悉感、失去日常规律、失去胜任感，以及一份有趣的工作。
Instead, it interprets this as loss of security, loss of familiarity, loss of routine, loss of competence, and interesting job.
它并没有准确评估哪些是该失去的，哪些是该获得的。
It doesn't assess those two what is what there is to lose and what there is to gain accurately.
你知道，那些潜在的收获——更多的满足感、更多的契合度、更多的收入——在我们大脑看来，都比不上当下所拥有的。
You know, those potential gains, more fulfillment, more alignment, more money, a more aligned path to our brain, to our present day brain.
它们有点抽象。
They're kind of abstract.
它们发生在未来。
They're in the future.
它们很难想象，因为你看不到它们，而潜在的损失却近在眼前，非常具体，因为你必须失去的东西就在那里。
They're difficult to imagine because you're not they're not in front of you the way that the potential losses are, the way that they're very vivid because the thing you have to lose is right there.
这也正是为什么改变感觉如此不稳定，因为损失总是更直观、更明显，而那些尚未发生的收益则不然。
That, again, is also why change feels so unstable because the losses are always going to be more visual and apparent versus the gains that haven't happened yet.
我认为在人际关系中也是如此。
I think it's the same dynamic in in relationships as well.
离开一段不顺利或不够满足的关系，意味着你可能会失去一段你已经熟悉的陪伴和一段你了解的历史，因为你亲身经历过，还有那些你逐渐喜欢上的姻亲，因为你经常见到他们。
Leaving a relationship that isn't working or isn't quite fulfilling means potentially losing a companionship that you already understand and a history that you understand because you were there and the in laws that you've grown to like because you see them all the time.
离开这个人可能意味着你获得自尊，可能意味着你获得内心的平静，可能意味着你将来会遇到一个更合适的伴侣。
The idea that, you know, leaving that person might mean you gain self respect, might mean you gain inner peace, might mean that you gain a compatible partner, a more compatible partner later on.
这非常难以捉摸，因为你还没遇到他们。
That's really intangible because you haven't met them yet.
你感受不到它。
You can't feel it.
因此，即使你内心深处知道这很可能，甚至绝对是正确的决定，它在情感上的分量也没有那么重。
So it's not as emotionally weighted in the same way, even if you know in your heart of hearts that this is probably, if not absolutely 100%, the right decision.
我们可以通过一种叫做‘恐怖管理理论’的东西来进一步理解这一点。
We can understand this a little bit further through something called terror management theory.
听起来很极端，但它本质上是一种社会心理学框架，认为我们对安全、常规和自尊的许多需求，都源于我们意识到在某种程度上，生命非常脆弱且有限。
Sounds very extreme, but it's basically a social psychology framework that suggests that suggests that a lot of our need for security, for routine, for self esteem is connected to the fact that we're aware that on some level, life is very fragile and life is finite.
改变，尤其是那种重大且不可逆的改变，会引发许多存在主义的恐惧，让你意识到自己可能无法掌控一切，事情可能出错，我们可能犯错，我们在这里的时间有限，因此必须做出正确的决定。
Change, especially the big irreversible kind, brushes up a lot of existential fears, brushes up against this idea that we might not be in control, that things can go wrong, that we can make mistakes, that we only have limited time here, so we better make the right decisions.
我们渴望回到熟悉的事物，部分原因是为了缓解对自己脆弱性的焦虑。
Our desire to keep returning to what we know is partly about managing our anxiety about our own fragility.
所以当你紧紧抓住一个尚可、不错、但并不出色的工作，一个还行的伴侣，一个让你感觉有些压抑的城市时，你可能会问：我为什么一直这样下去？
So when you're clinging to a situation that is fine, that is okay, you know, not great job, alright partner, city that feels kind of restrictive, you might be like, why do I keep doing this?
我为什么不能向前走？
Why can't I move on?
这是因为你的大脑试图保护你，让你免于面对真实的失落感和不确定性，更深层地，让你免于意识到实际上没有任何事情是 guaranteed 的。
And it's because your brain is trying to protect you from a very real sense of loss and of uncertainty and, on a deeper level, the sense that actually nothing is guaranteed.
也许我在新的地方、新的关系、新的生活中无法成功。
Maybe I can't make it work in this new location, this new relationship, this new life.
因此，你对改变的抗拒是非常自然的。
Your resistance to change is therefore very natural.
这受到许多我称之为强大而复杂的过程的影响。
It's being influenced by a lot of, I would say, very powerful, very complex processes.
说实话，当我看到所有这些因素叠加在一起时，我惊讶于居然还有人愿意冒险。
To be honest, when I look at all these things lined up, I'm surprised anybody ever takes a risk ever.
如果我们要对抗的是存在主义的恐惧、对未知的本能恐惧，以及那些不愿打破的神经模式，那人们能做出任何改变简直太勇敢了。
Like, if that's what we're battling against, like existential fears, a hardwired fear of the unknown, and, like, neurological patterns that don't wanna break, I can't I it's pretty courageous that people ever do anything.
但关键是，我想我们最终都会意识到这一点。
But the thing is and and this is the point I think we all realize eventually.
我们在改变时失去的，并不只是东西。
We don't only lose things when we change.
当我们原地不动时，也会失去一些东西。
We also lose things when we stay the same.
保持不变同样是有代价的。
Staying the same also has a cost.
当你没有申请那份你真正向往的工作时，别人得到了它。
When you don't apply for the role you're really drawn to, someone else gets it.
别人获得了指导、技能和金钱。
Someone else gets the the mentoring and the skills and the money.
那个可能比你能力更差的人，仅仅因为更有勇气就获得了这个机会。
Someone else who may have less skills than you gets that opportunity just because they have the bravado.
当你没有搬到那个你日思夜想的新城市时，那个城市里有个人本可以成为你最好的朋友。
When you don't move to the new city that you're that you're daydreaming about, there's a person in that new city who would have been your best friend.
你永远无法遇见他们。
You never get to meet them.
这段关系永远不会发生。
That relationship never happens.
有些回忆永远无法产生。
There's memories that are never made.
美好的回忆，那些你本会珍藏至死的回忆。
Fond memories, memories that you would have had till the day you die.
你没有在场去创造它们。
You weren't there to make them.
你知道，当你不愿离开一段你明知道不适合自己的关系时，你也在阻断了更契合的伴侣，或仅仅是与自己更平和关系出现的空间。
You know, when you don't leave the relationship you know is wrong for you, you're also blocking the space for a more compatible partner or maybe just simply a more peaceful relationship with yourself.
所有这些例子就是所谓的机会成本。
This all these examples are what is known as opportunity cost.
这是一个经济学术语，但在这里却极其适用。
It's a term from economics that's actually super applicable here.
你们知道，我从不放过任何机会告诉你们。
You guys know I never miss a moment to tell you guys.
我其实也拥有经济学学位。
I actually also have an economics degree.
每次提到这个话题，我都得谦虚地吹一下自己，但机会成本是微观经济学第一天就会学到的概念之一。
Have to do my humble brag every time it comes up, but opportunity cost is one of the concepts you learn, like, on day one of microeconomics.
它基本上是你在做出选择时放弃的下一个最佳替代方案的价值。
And it's basically the value of the next best alternative.
当你选择某件事时，你放弃的东西会以失望、遗憾的方式让你付出代价，同时也意味着你本可以把这些精力花在可能带来更好结果的事情上。
You give up when you choose something, and it's something that it costs you in it costs you in a way in the ways of of disappointment, regret, but also in the ways that you could have taken all that energy and spent it on something that may have turned out better.
而这就是你做出选择后必须承担的成本。
And that's that's a cost that you have to bear by choosing.
你做出的每一个选择，同时也意味着你放弃了其他一系列选择，而不做任何选择，是所有这些选择中代价最大的。
Every choice you make is also a set of choices you don't make, and not making a choice is the most costly of all of those choices.
你每推迟一年重返大学，就离毕业更远了一年。
Every year you put off going back to university is a year you're not getting any closer to graduating.
你每推迟一个月开始新的锻炼计划，就多了一个月对自己感觉不佳的时光。
Every month you put off starting that new exercise routine is another month that you just don't feel good about yourself.
你对自己的身体感觉不到百分之百的舒适。
You don't feel a 100% in your body.
这些错失的机会会像投资一样复利增长，变得越来越昂贵。
And those missed opportunities, they compound the way investments, you know, compound and get more expensive as well.
你知道我通常是怎么想的吗？
You know how I always think about it?
每当我犹豫不决，思考要不要做这件事时，我都会这么想。
I always think about it when I'm doubting or thinking, do I do this thing or not?
我总是想到那些在九十年代买房的人。
I always think about the people who bought a house, like, back in the nineties.
还有那个老生常谈的笑话：要是我九十年代有两万美元，现在就能买得起房子了。
And, like, that running joke of, like, if only I had $20,000 back in the nineties, I I could be able to afford a house.
每年，房价都变得越来越贵。
And every year, houses just get more and more expensive.
现在投资技能、投资改变，就像在九十年代买房一样。
Investing in skills, investing in change right now is like buying a house in the nineties.
因为三十年、四十年后，你将拥有整个人生，而这一切都建立在当年做出的投资之上，而且这种投资不断复利增长。
Because in thirty years' time, forty years' time, you're gonna have this whole life that's been built upon an investment you made back then that is compounded and compounded and compounded.
否则，如果你不做，是的，你就买不起房子。
Otherwise, if you don't do it, yeah, you don't have the house.
你还会一直知道，你本可以的。
You also live with the knowledge that you could've.
你本可以成为那套房子的骄傲主人。
You could've been the proud owner of the home.
如果你敢于冒险并拥抱改变，你本可以成为拥有高度价值人生的骄傲主人。
You could've been the proud owner of a highly valued life if you've just taken the risk and embraced change.
而这里，正是拒绝改变的最终代价。
And this right here is the final cost of not pursuing change.
那是自我背叛的不安，是内心深处明白：你抛弃了自己的需求和价值观，也剥夺了那个本应存在的、未来的你。
It's the discomfort of self betrayal, of knowing on some level that, you know, you abandoned your own needs and values and a future version of you who now doesn't get to exist because of your resistance to things being different.
此外，我们之所以现在抗拒改变，是因为我们认为机会可能会停留，以后还会再来。
The thing is as well, we resist change now because we think the opportunity might linger and might come up later.
但随着时间推移，我认为要想象未来会有不同的改变会变得越来越难，因为此刻你抗拒改变，正在积累一种‘就这样接受现状’的生活记录。
But over time, I think it does become harder to imagine future changes going any differently because right now, you resisting change is building a track record of staying, of just accepting this that this is how your life is.
就像那种观念，这就是事情的本来面目。
Like, that narrative of, like, this is just what it is.
这就是事情的本来面目。
This is just what it is.
每一天你任由它存在而不去挑战它，这种观念就会变得越来越根深蒂固。
It gets stronger and stronger every day you allow it to continue to exist and not challenge it.
我不是说你最终不能改变，或者你不会改变，或者未来没有你终将做出的选择。
And I'm not saying you can't eventually change or that you won't or that there aren't choices out there that you will eventually take.
但事实上，我们人生中一些最好的决定，往往是那些在你感觉还没准备好时做出的，因为你永远无法100%确定你所采取的行动或冒险一定会成功。
But the thing is some of the best decisions that we make in our lives are the ones that we don't feel prepared for because you can never be a 100% certain that what you're gonna do, the risk you're gonna take is gonna work out.
我们该如何克服这种心理障碍——那种未知和不确定性？
How do we get over that mental barrier, the not knowing, the uncertainty?
在接下来的短暂休息后，我们将深入探讨如何迈出拥抱变化的具体步骤，请继续关注。
We're gonna dive into exactly how, some steps to embrace change after this short break, so stay with us.
新年新目标，在当前经济环境下，制定一个更好的理财计划比以往任何时候都更加必要。
New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever.
我是马特。
I am Matt.
我是乔尔。
And I'm Joel.
我们来自《如何理财》播客。
We are from the How to Money podcast.
每周我们都帮助你更聪明地消费、更多地储蓄，并理解外面发生的一切。
And every week, help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there.
如果你希望2026年成为你真正掌控财务的一年，我们在这里为你提供实现这一目标的工具和建议。
If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen.
在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《如何理财》。
Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever wherever you get your podcasts.
如果思想控制是真实存在的呢？
What if mind control is real?
如果你能控制
If you could control the
如果你能控制周围任何人的行为，你会过上怎样的生活？
behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?
你能通过催眠说服一个人买车吗？
Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?
当你看着你的
When you look at your
车时，你会被强烈的美好感受淹没。
car, you're gonna become overwhelmed with such good feelings.
你能催眠一个人与你发生关系吗？
Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?
我给了她一些建议，让她产生性冲动。
I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
你能让人加入你的邪教吗？
Can you get someone to join your cult?
有人用神经语言程序学（NLP）操控我，以接触我的潜意识。
NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.
NLP，即神经语言程序设计，是催眠、语言学和心理学的结合。
NLP, aka neuro linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology.
粉丝们说，这就像终于拿到了大脑的用户手册。
Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.
这是关于意识工程的。
It's about engineering consciousness.
《思维游戏》讲述了NLP的故事。
Mind Games is the story of NLP.
它讲述了一群狂热的追随者，以及那位在新时代公社发明NLP并将其卖给穿西装人士的假医生。
It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits.
他曾因谋杀受审，但被判无罪。
He stood trial for murder and got acquitted.
最大的思维游戏是什么？
The biggest mind game of all?
NLP可能真的有效。
NLP might actually work.
这太疯狂了。
This is wild.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你常用的任何播客平台收听《Mind Games》。
Listen to mind games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
《Crook and Chase 纳什维尔》对话乡村音乐中最酷的家伙。
Crook and Chase Nashville chats with the coolest cat in country music.
他很有个性。
He is edgy.
他很有趣。
He's fun.
他是蔡斯·马修。
He is Chase Matthew.
基思·乌尔班去年助他成为全球热门人物，但真正让他声名鹊起、并引发关于欺骗与撒谎恋人的有趣而棘手讨论的，是他最近的冠军单曲《Darlin'》。
Keith Urban helped make him a global sensation last year, but it's his recent number one hit, Darlin', that put Chase on the map and launched a fun and difficult conversation about lovers who cheat and lie.
这就是我害怕结婚的原因。
That's why I'm scared to get married.
你让我对信任产生了问题，兄弟。
You're giving me trust issues, brother.
《Crook and Chase Nashville》对话乡村音乐最酷的家伙——蔡斯·马修。
Crook and Chase Nashville chats with Chase Matthew.
请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您收听播客的任何平台收听并订阅。
Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
在
In
半夜，萨斯娅在迷糊中醒了过来。
the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.
她的丈夫迈克正在用笔记本电脑。
Her husband Mike was on his laptop.
他屏幕上的内容将永远改变萨斯娅的人生。
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
我说我需要你
I said I need you to
告诉我你到底在做什么。
tell me exactly what you're doing.
那一刻，面具立刻脱落了。
And immediately, the mask came off.
你本该感到安全的。
You're supposed to be safe.
那是你的家。
That's your home.
那是你的丈夫。
That's your husband.
为了保守这个秘密。
To keep this secret.
这么多年，他就像一个老练的高手。
For so many years, he's like a seasoned pro.
这是一个关于婚姻终结的故事。
This is a story about the end of a marriage.
展开剩余字幕（还有 277 条）
但这同样也是一位女性不再愿意生活在黑暗中的故事。
But it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark.
你是一个危险人物，专门捕食脆弱和轻信他人的人。
You're a dangerous person who preys on vulnerable and trusting people.
你是个掠食者，迈克尔·莱文·古德。
You're a predator, Michael Levin Good.
请收听1月29日开播的《背叛》第五季，可在iHeartRadio应用程序、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听。
Listen to Betrayal season five starting on January 29 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
我注意到一个模式。
Here's a pattern that I've noticed.
我常常觉得，那些最能改变人生的决定，往往是在你做出它们时内心并不平静的。
I often think the decisions that are the most life altering are the ones that actually you don't feel calm at the time about making.
我认为它们才是最能挑战你的。
I think they're the ones that challenge you the most.
在我自己的生活中，那就像是离开我的第一段长期关系。
In my own life, that was like leaving my first long term relationship.
我以为会和他共度一生的那个人。
This person I thought I was gonna be with forever.
或者辞掉工作，放弃稳定的薪水，自己创业，搬去一个完全不认识任何人城市。
Or quitting my job, leaving the comfort of a paycheck to work for myself, moving cities to a place I didn't know anybody.
这些决定没有一个是容易的。
None of those decisions were easy.
我实际上拖延的时间比应该的要长得多。
I actually put them all off much longer than I needed to.
我在那段关系里待的时间，比应该的长了六个月。
I was in that relationship, like, for six months longer than I should have been.
工作也是同样的情况。
Same with the job.
我花了两年时间才搬到伦敦。
It took two years for me to move to London.
有时候我仍然对这个决定没有百分之百的把握。
I still don't feel a 100 certain about that decision sometimes.
这是因为许多重大决定都涉及我们所说的趋近-回避冲突。
This is because a lot of big decisions have what we call approach avoidance conflicts.
我们经常把损失和收益谈得好像一个决定只会带来全部损失或全部收益。
We've talked a lot about losses and gains as if a decision is either gonna create all loss or all gain.
但这个理论认为，结果很可能是好坏参半，既有不理想的一面，也有令人向往的一面。
The theory this theory, though, says it's probably gonna be a mix, undesirable and desirable things.
希望令人向往的方面最终能占上风。
Hopefully, the desirable things win out.
但我们并不总是能确定。
We don't always know.
这意味着，当我们越来越接近做出决定或达成目标时，焦虑感会增强，但兴奋感也会增强。
But what this means is that the closer we get to making a decision or a goal, the greater our anxiety, but also the greater our excitement.
那些感觉——兴奋、焦虑、兴奋、焦虑、恐惧、焦虑、兴奋——有时根本难以区分。
The feelings those feelings, excitement, anxiety, excitement, anxiety, fear, anxiety, excitement, they can be indistinguishable at times.
所以我们最终往往会感到不知所措。
So we just basically end up being overwhelmed.
当你接近决策点时感受到的这种焦虑飙升是非常正常的，因为你正在对一个日益明确的现实做出反应——事情即将改变，你必须适应。
This spike of anxiety that you receive or you feel as you near a decision point is incredibly normal because you're responding to essentially an increasing reality that things are gonna change and that you're going to have to adapt.
不再是可能性，而是现实。
Not a possibility anymore, a reality.
我常常想，你越害怕，越频繁地列利弊清单，就越说明你该坚持下去，越应该带着恐惧去行动。
I often think, you know, the more fear, the more pros and cons lists that you make, the more you probably should go through with it, the more you probably should do it scared.
因为当你感到害怕时，这表明这个可能性以及它为你带来的或你认为可能到来的东西，深深触动了你的内心。
Because when you're scared, it points to the fact that this possibility and what is being offered to you or what you think could come from this strikes a real nerve.
它深深触动了你所珍视的价值。
It strikes a nerve deeply with what you value.
如果你不在乎，如果你没那么害怕，如果没有被这个选择压得喘不过气，我觉得你内心其实不会隐约知道这是你该做的事。
If you didn't care, if you didn't fear this as much, if you weren't as overwhelmed by the choice, I feel like you wouldn't secretly kind of know that this is what you need to do.
如果这件事不适合你，我不认为你会有如此强烈的情绪反应，因为你不会足够投入，从而产生这样的感受。
I don't think you'd be having such a profound emotional reaction if this thing wasn't right for you because you wouldn't be meaningfully invested enough to feel this way.
你所感受到的对变化的焦虑和恐惧，其实是你的神经系统在对可能性的巨大规模和未知性做出反应。
What you're experiencing as anxiety and fear about change is your nervous system reacting to the magnitude of possibility and the unknowing how unknowed it is.
我们常常以为这仅仅是焦虑。
And often we think that's just anxiety.
其中很大一部分是期待，知道这终将成为我们的现实，知道只是时间问题，我们终将迈出这一步，知道事情将会变得非凡。
A large part of it is anticipation, knowing that this has to be our reality, knowing it's only a matter of time until we take the plunge, knowing that things are gonna be incredible.
别让恐惧让你误以为期待和兴奋与焦虑相同，误以为它们是坏事，误以为它们单独就能说明某个决定是错误的。
Don't let, you know, fear convince you that anticipation and excitement are the same as anxiety and that they're a bad thing and that they alone indicate that something is a bad decision.
你的情绪对事物的了解并不比你更多。
Your emotions don't know anything more than you do.
它们并不知道。
They don't know.
它们源自于你。
They come from you.
它们来源于你。
They originate from you.
它们怎么知道呢？
How do they know?
我认为，那些让你感受最强烈的决定——为了强调这一点——正是你的灵魂、你的心灵，无论你如何定义它，无论你给它什么标签，都说明你内心深处某个部分被它们深深吸引，这绝非偶然。
I think the decisions you feel most intensely about just to nail this home, those are the ones your soul, your heart, whatever it is you think it is, whatever label you give it, there is some deep part of you that is most drawn to them for a reason.
话虽如此，我们该如何迈出这一步呢？
With that being said, how do we take the leap?
我们怎么知道自己已经准备好了？
When do we know that we're ready?
我们怎么知道是时候跳出去了？
When do we know it's time to jump?
如果你一生中大部分时间都将变化视为巨大、可怕、戏剧性的威胁，那你很可能不会某天早上醒来突然觉得：‘好了，没问题了。’
If you've spent most of your life treating change as this big, scary, dramatic threat, you're probably not gonna wake up one day and be like, cool.
我突然爱上了它。
I suddenly love this.
我准备好了，可以出发了。
I'm ready to go.
更现实的目标是，改变你对自己讲述的关于变化意味着什么、或关于你对它情感上是否准备就绪的故事。
A more realistic goal is just to change the story you tell yourself about what change means or about how emotionally ready you are for it.
这里有一个我找到的理论，可以帮助你，那就是21世纪初芭芭拉·弗雷德里克森提出的拓展与建构理论。
One theory that can help here that I found is the early two thousands broaden and build theory from somebody called Barbara Fredrickson.
拓展与建构理论非常出色，它本质上认为，通过用好奇心、兴趣和希望等积极情绪来对抗恐惧、悲观和绝望等限制性情绪，可以拓宽我们的注意力范围，让我们看到更多可能性。
Broaden build is is fantastic, and it essentially suggests that counteracting limiting emotions like fear, pessimism, hopelessness with more positive emotions like curiosity, interest, and hope widens our attentional focus and lets us see more possibilities.
当恐惧和焦虑将我们的注意力窄化到威胁或我们可能失去的东西时——这正是它们的设计目的——而好奇心和希望则会轻轻引导你看到更远的地方，超越那个聚焦点，或超越最坏的情况。
When fear and anxiety narrow our focus to the threat or what we have to lose because that is what they're meant to do, curiosity and hope gently just let you see beyond that pinpoint or see beyond the worst case scenario.
允许自己感受最初那一波念头，比如：‘这肯定会搞砸。’
Let yourself feel that first wave of, like, this is gonna go terrible.
我这是在干什么？
What am I doing?
然后引入第二波情绪。
And then send in the second wave.
主动引入一种充满好奇和兴奋的判断。
Send in the deliberate judgment, one of curiosity and excitement.
例如，你可能会想：‘我害怕搬家。’
For example, you might think I'm terrified to move.
我害怕重新开始。
I'm terrified to start over.
但同时，我也有一点好奇。
But, also, I'm slightly curious.
我非常期待我会变成什么样的人。
I'm really excited for who I might become.
你可能会觉得离开这段关系会彻底毁了我。
You might think leaving this relationship is gonna absolutely destroy me.
我的人生就此结束了。
My life is gonna be over.
但我也有一点希望，觉得在另一边我会有机会认识新的人。
But also, I'm a tiny bit hopeful about the opportunities I've I'm gonna have to meet new people on the other side.
如果你想要更实际的做法，现在就可以立刻这么做：针对你认为改变会出错的每一个方面，针对你认为改变会给生活带来的每一件坏事，写下五种可能顺利发展的途径，或者五条理由说明即使情况不理想，你也会没事。
Even better, if you want something super practical, you could do this literally right now, super practical for every way you think that change for every way you think this is gonna go wrong, for every bad thing you think change is gonna bring into your life, write a list of the five ways it could go right or the five reasons that you'll be okay even if it doesn't.
用一种压倒性的乐观、积极和可能性的浪潮，实实在在地与之抗衡。
Literally counteract it as much as you physically can with an overwhelm overwhelming kind of wall of optimism and positivity and just possibility as well.
你知道我为什么喜欢这个建议吗？
You know why I love this tip?
我喜欢这个建议，因为它证明了你也会对好事想得太多。
I love this tip because it proves that you can overthink the good stuff as well.
你可以对积极的一面想得太多，就像你对消极的一面想得太多一样。
You can overthink the positives as much as you can overthink the negatives.
除了这个，我还特别推崇另一个建议：当我站在改变的边缘，心里想着天哪时。
Another tip on top of this that I also swear by is when I am at, like, the precipice of a change and I'm like, oh my god.
我该这么做吗？
Should I do this?
我不该这么做吗？
Should I not do this?
我只是想象五年或十年后，我会如何讲述此刻做出决定的故事，并且我会把它想象成一个成功的故事。
I just imagine telling the story of this very moment where I make the decision in five or ten years' time, and I imagine telling it as a success story.
我想象自己围坐在餐桌旁，说：‘这就是一切的开始。’
I imagine it as me sitting around a dinner table being like, this was the beginning.
这就是我的起源故事。
This is where I this was my origin story.
这就是崛起的开始。
This was the rise.
就是此刻，我最害怕的这一刻，我会一次又一次地回到这里。
This moment right here, the one I'm most afraid in, is the one I'm gonna come back to time and time again.
关于创伤后成长以及重大人生转变的研究表明，我们在面对剧变时能更好地应对。
There's a lot of research on post traumatic growth and also on major life transitions that suggests that we cope better with upheaval.
当我们能将这些不如意或变化融入一个关于生命意义、人生目标和旅程的故事中时，我们会更好地应对。
We cope better with things going wrong or with change when we can place it into a story about what our lives are for and the purpose we are living and the journey we are taking.
当你围绕自己可能因当下或未来发生的事而成为怎样的人构建一个叙事，并将这种变化重新定义为一种为你而发生、有利于你的过程，而非与你作对时，这一切突然就变得再自然不过了。
When you create a narrative about who you could be as the result of what's happening to you right now or what might be happening for you in the future and you reframe that change as a process that is happening to you, for you, in your favor rather than against you, it suddenly feels like this is the most natural thing in the world.
你必须这么做。
You have to do this.
我也认为，如果你想拥有一个精彩的故事，想拥有一个关于你人生的精彩起源故事，你就得亲手去创造它。
I also think, you know, if you want a good story, if you want a good origin story about your life, you've gotta build it.
你必须去实现它。
You've gotta make it.
你必须有足够的勇气去冒险，而你现在正在这么做。
You've gotta be courageous enough to take risks, and that's what you're doing right now.
你正在构建这个故事，并通过拥抱变化让它变得引人入胜。
You're building the story, and you're making it an interesting one by embracing change.
我认为，如果变化总是被描绘成毫无意义、纯粹混乱、只是情绪上的扰乱，它就永远会让人感到消极。
I think if change is continuously framed as something that's just only pointless, only chaos, only emotional disruption, it will always feel like a negative.
它永远会让人觉得是需要回避的东西。
It will always feel like something to avoid.
但如果把它看作是你成为更真实自我的方式，是你达成目标的途径，是必经的过程，它就会开始感觉像是一种转变，而不仅仅是最终结果。
But if it's framed as the way you become more yourself, the way that you get to your goals, the the path through, it starts to feel more like a transition, not just the end outcome.
我认为，记住变化很少是一次巨大的电影式飞跃，会有帮助。
I think it helps to remember that change is also rarely one big cinematic leap.
相反，它通常是一系列小阶段、小步骤。
Instead, it's usually a series of small stages, small steps.
另一个我认为非常棒的模型或理论是跨理论变化模型。
Another model, I guess, theory that I love is the transtheoretical model of change.
这个模型由九十年代的研究者提出，它将变化描述为不是一个非此即彼的过程，而是经历多个阶段，有时不顺利，有时却非常顺利。
This was developed by researchers in the nineties, and it describes change as not a before and after, but moving through phases where occasionally things aren't working and occasionally they're working really well.
你会经历这些阶段，比如还没有考虑改变，然后认真思考，接着准备，再付诸行动，最后努力维持新的行为。
You know, you move through these phases of, like, not really considering it yet, then seriously thinking about it, then preparing, then acting, then trying to maintain the new behavior.
关键在于，人们会不断在这些阶段之间来回波动。
The key thing is that people slide back and forth through these stages all the time.
他们已经准备好了。
They're prepared.
他们还没有准备好。
They're not prepared.
他们正在坚持这个习惯。
They're sticking with that habit.
突然间，这个习惯被打断了。
Suddenly, the habit is broken.
关键是，即使在这个循环中，他们也始终在向前推进。
The thing is is that they're always continuing to have forward motion even within the cycle.
他们总是在努力回到自己想要的状态。
They're always trying to get back to the place they wanna be.
所以，如果你一直在考虑换城市，或者因为某种原因想辞职，但还停留在期待阶段，那么下一个阶段其实只差几步之遥。
So So if you've been thinking about moving city, you've thinking about leaving your job for whatever reason and you're still in that anticipation phase, the next stage is, like, only a few centimeters away.
你只需要让自己迈入准备阶段，进入行动阶段即可。
All you have to do is just shift yourself into that preparation stage, into that doing stage.
也许你不会去投简历，或者最终没有付诸行动，但至少你可以说，你曾经短暂地进入过那个阶段。
Maybe you're not gonna apply or keep applying or maybe you're not gonna go through with it, but at least you can say you were in that stage even for a little while.
把改变看作一个包含矛盾、混乱、反复尝试和实验的过程，这种视角能缓解不安，也能淡化非黑即白的思维——即，如果我要接受、拥抱或追求改变，就必须百分之百投入，否则就完全不参与。
Seeing changes as a process that has ambivalence, that has messiness, that that has false starts and experimentation, like, built into it, that is that can soften the unease, and it can soften the all or nothing thinking of, if I'm gonna accept, embrace, pursue change, I better be 100% committed or 100% not in at all.
这实际上与接纳与承诺疗法中的许多理念相契合。
This links actually to a lot of the ideas that come from acceptance and commitment therapy.
接纳与承诺疗法（ACT）强调承诺行动，即基于你的价值观采取具体行动，以实现你想要的目标，而不仅仅是受当下情绪驱动的行为。
ACT, acceptance and commitment therapy, talks about committed action, which is basically taking concrete steps guided by your values to get what you want, not just things that are guided by your moment to moment emotions.
你的价值观在告诉你：我想做这件事。
Your values are telling you, I wanna do this.
这对我来说是必要的。
This is the necessary thing for me.
如果我想成为我所设想的那个人，我就必须迈出这一步。
I have to take this step if I wanna be the kind of person I've envisioned.
恐惧总会存在。
The fear is always going to be there.
你知道的，我只是不会让它左右我的行为。
It just you know, I'm just not gonna let it dictate what I do.
它总会存在。
It's always gonna be there.
但我问你一个问题。
But let me ask you this.
把恐惧去掉。
Take out the fear.
把焦虑去掉。
Take out the anxiety.
如果我告诉你，我百分百确定你的计划每一步都会成功，你会怎么样？
What if I told you I knew for for certainty every part of your plan was gonna work out?
我知道。
I knew.
有人告诉我，所有的步骤都会顺利完成。
Somebody had told me all the steps were gonna be complete.
不会出任何差错。
Nothing was gonna go wrong.
我可以发誓，情况确实如此。
I could swear up and down that that was the case.
我需要的只是你的承诺，承诺投入所需的时间。
All I needed from you was commitment, commitment to the time it would take.
如果情况真是这样，你在这种情况下最希望得到什么结果？
If that was the situation, what outcome in those circumstances would you desire the most?
如果我告诉你一切都会顺利，你会选择哪条路？
What is the path you're gonna pick if I said it was all gonna work out?
这正是你想要的。
That's what you want.
这再清楚不过了。
It's as clear as day.
现在告诉我，为什么所有步骤都不会成功？
Now tell me why all the steps won't work out.
告诉我，为什么会发生这种情况。
Tell me why that's gonna happen.
告诉我，你究竟为什么相信事情不会如你所愿？
Tell me why exactly you believe it's not gonna go your way.
你没有任何证据。
You don't have any proof.
你没有任何证据。
You have no proof.
你对自以为会发生的事情有情绪反应。
You have emotional reactions to what you think is gonna happen.
你有恐惧，但你无法给我任何具体的证据，证明如果你尝试了，事情就会变得糟糕。
You have fear, but you can't give me any concrete evidence that if you tried, that it would go terribly.
你根本说不出来任何具体的事情。
You you literally couldn't tell me a single thing.
也许过去的经验根本算不了什么。
Maybe past experience still doesn't count for anything.
这全都是恐惧。
It's all just fear.
而且，你的恐惧并不比你了解更多，因为它源自于你。
And, again, your fear doesn't know anything more than you do because it comes from you.
你现在什么都不知道。
And you don't know anything right now.
你不知道接下来会发生什么。
You don't know what's gonna happen.
这正是你最初来这里的原因。
That's why you're here in the first place.
这正是你如此害怕的原因。
That's why you're so afraid.
你必须以一切都会顺利解决的态度来面对它。
You have to approach it as if it's all gonna work out.
在这种情况下，如果真是这样，你第一步该做什么？
And under these conditions, if that was the case, what's the first thing you do?
你必须采取的第一步是什么？
What's the first step you'd have to take?
你必须做的第一个微小步骤是什么？
What is baby step number one that you would have to do?
只专注于完成这一步。
Just focus on completing that.
微小的步骤根本不会造成伤害。
Baby steps literally can't hurt.
这就是为什么婴儿会这么做。
That's why babies do them.
就像，这名字本身就是这个意思。
Like, that's literally in the name.
它们的存在是为了感受。
It's they are there to to feel.
它们的存在是为了信任。
They are there to trust.
它们的存在只是为了缓慢地进步。
They are there just to progress slowly.
如果你想创业，注册一个商业名称并不会伤害你。
If you wanna start a business, registering a business name can't hurt you.
小步前进。
Baby step.
开设一个Instagram页面。
Start the Instagram page.
这不会对你造成伤害。
That's not gonna hurt you.
这是一个小步骤。
It's a baby step.
即使你并不付诸行动，只是研究这个机会，也是一个小步骤。
Researching the opportunity even if you're not acting on it is a baby step.
这不会对你造成伤害。
It's not gonna hurt you.
如果你想搬到一个新城市，查看签证信息，你不必为此付费。
If you wanna move to a new city, looking at visas, you don't have to pay for them.
比如，只是开始为它们存钱。
Like, just starting to save for them.
小步骤不会对你造成伤害。
Baby step is not gonna hurt you.
这些都是你能够从中获得的步骤，无论你是否最终完成，你都会持续从中受益。
These are all steps all things you gain from, you will continuously gain from regardless of if you go all the way through with it.
你以自己的方式引入变化，并逐步迈向改变。
You introduce change and you introduce the steps towards change on your terms this way.
你微剂量地引入变化。
You microdose change.
我认为，当我们为不确定性命名并提前规划时，我们对不确定性的不耐受也会变得更容易应对。
I think also our intolerance for uncertainty also becomes more manageable when it's named, when we're planning for it.
每当我的生活发生变动让我感到不知所措时，我总会这么说。
This is something I always say when I'm overwhelmed by things shifting in my life.
我为这个过程感到压力。
I'm stressed by the process.
我为结果感到兴奋。
I'm excited by the outcome.
我为这个过程感到害怕。
I'm scared by the process.
我为结果感到兴奋。
I'm excited by the outcome.
两件事可以同时为真。
Two things can be true.
然后你可以再进一步，深入到底。
Then you can go that final deep step deeper.
我害怕。
I'm scared.
我害怕。
I'm scared.
为什么？
Why?
我害怕这个过程。
I'm scared of the process.
我期待结果。
I'm excited by the outcome.
我为什么害怕？
Why am I scared?
这种人类的不安全感究竟是什么，它在暗中无意识地操控着我，让我觉得一切都会搞砸？
What what is the human insecurity this is secretly unconsciously manipulating in me to make me feel like it's all gonna go wrong?
我害怕一旦行动，我会后悔。
I'm scared if I move, I'm gonna hate it.
我会感到被困住。
I'm gonna feel trapped.
你真正害怕的不是行动本身，而是失去控制。
What you're really scared of is losing control, not actually of moving.
我害怕我会离开这段关系。
I'm scared I'll leave this relationship.
我再也遇不到别人了。
I'll never meet anybody else.
你并不是害怕离开这段关系。
You're not scared of leaving the relationship.
你害怕的是孤独。
You're scared of being lonely.
但你没有任何证据能证明事情真的会像你想象的那样。
But there's no I you don't have any proof that that's actually what's gonna be what it's gonna be like.
这仅仅是你的深层人性恐惧。
That is just your deep human personal fear.
然后你可以再次强化这一点，也许情况并非如此。
Then you can reinforce again that maybe this isn't the case.
再次使用我之前提到的五乘五方法。
Again, use that five by five method I mentioned before.
有哪五种其他可能性？
What are five alternatives?
即使我感到孤独，即使我真的失去控制，有哪些方式能让我依然过得好？
And what are five ways that I'm gonna be okay even if I am lonely, even if I do lose control?
我也希望你注意到，这里所有分享的建议，无论是治疗师还是心理学家给出的建议，都不是等你不再害怕了再行动。
I also want you to notice here that none of the advice shared, none of the advice that would be given to you by a therapist or a psychologist is wait until you're not scared anymore.
坦率地说，那种时刻永远不会到来。
Speaking really bluntly, it's not gonna arrive.
你总会感到害怕。
You're always gonna be scared.
这已经深植于你的本性中。
It's hardwired into you.
你的威胁系统设计初衷就是提醒你提防不确定性。
Your threat system is designed to warn you against uncertainty.
不确定性正是生命的承诺。
Uncertainty is a promise of life.
任何改变都会带来这种感觉。
Change is always gonna bring about that feeling.
决定结果的，是你与不确定性之间的关系以及你的应对方式，而不是你脑海中那些虚构的、灾难性的想象。
Your relationship and how you act towards uncertainty is what is going to determine what happens, not your imaginary, fill in the blank, catastrophic perceptions of it.
如果你从这一集中只记住一件事，那就记住这一点。
If you take, you know, nothing else from this episode, let it be this.
你有权利对改变感到害怕。
You're allowed to be scared of change.
这真的太吓人了。
It's really fucking scary.
你有权利为可能失去的东西感到悲伤。
You're allowed to grieve what you might lose.
你有权利不清楚事情会如何发展。
You're allowed to not know exactly how it will play out.
但话说回来，你其实并不知道。
But that being said, you don't actually know.
然而，你也有权决定，那种从未尝试过的不安和恐惧，远比迈出一步更糟糕。
And you're also allowed to decide that the the discomfort, the terror of never trying is way worse than taking a step.
即使某件事很可怕，也不意味着它不是正确的选择。
Just because something is scary doesn't mean it's not the right move.
事实上，有时候这种恐惧恰恰是它正确的信号。
In fact, sometimes that fear is a sign that it is.
你基于恐惧的想象并不是预言。
Your fear based imaginations are not predictions.
它们被设计成你能想象到的最令人恐惧的事物，以便让你为此做好准备。
They are designed to be the most intense scary thing that you can imagine so that you can be prepared for it.
它们对未来的了解并不比你多。
They don't know any more than you do.
如果你说一切都会好起来，如果你说无论怎样我都会接受改变，我会做好准备，直面它；如果你说这会是场盛事，它就真的会是。
And if you say it's going to be alright, if you say I'm gonna accept the change anyways, I'm gonna be prepared, I'm gonna face it head on, If you say it's gonna be magnificent, it will be.
如果你以积极的心态去预期，那么事情如你所愿的概率极高，这将是一次非凡的经历，因为你拥抱了大多数人不敢面对的东西，而他们却依然过着悲惨的生活。
I it the chances are so high that it will be the way that you anticipate it if you anticipate it in a positive light, that it's gonna be incredible because you have embraced something that so many people don't, and they live miserable lives anyways.
至少你可以说，我努力过了。
At least you can say I gave it a go.
至少你可以说，我他妈的试过了，而不是整天纠结于‘如果怎样’。
At least you can say I freaking tried rather than dealing with the what ifs.
如果你坚持听到了这里，谢谢你。
So thank you for listening if you have made it this far.
希望你喜欢这一集。
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
希望你学到了一些东西。
I hope you learned something.
一如既往，感谢我们的研究员莉比·科尔伯特为本集所做的研究贡献。
Thank you as always to our researcher, Libby Colbert, for her research contributions to this episode.
请在Instagram上关注我们，账号是thatpsychologypodcast。
Make sure you are following us on Instagram at that psychology podcast.
请确保你在你观看的平台订阅了我们。
Make sure you are subscribed wherever you are watching.
今天的问题是，如果你看到这里了，非常感谢你，忠诚的听众。
Our question of the day, if you have made it this far, thank you so much loyal listener.
我们的秘密问题是：你现在暗中抗拒的改变是什么？
Our secret question is what is a change that you are secretly resisting right now?
无论是搬家、创业、约会、离开某人，不管是什么，请在下方留言。
Whether it's moving, whether it's starting a business, whether it's dating, leaving somebody, whatever it is, leave a comment down below.
下次再见，保持安全，善待他人，也温柔对待自己。
Until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself.
我们很快就会再聊。
We will talk very, very soon.
嘿。
Hey.
我是乔尔。
It's Joel.
还有马特。
And Matt.
来自《如何理财》。
From How To Money.
如果你的新年决心是终于理顺财务，我们全力支持你。
If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back.
物价仍然很高，经济也起伏不定。
Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place.
但2026年是你有意识地规划并取得实质性进展的一年。
But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress.
没错。
That's right.
对。
Yeah.
每周我们都会分析与你的财务相关的情况、最值得关注的重要问题，以及那些能带来巨大改变的小行动。
Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference.
自信地开启新的一年。
Kick off the year with confidence.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《How To Money》。
Listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
如果思想控制是真实的呢？
What if mind control is real?
如果你能控制身边任何人的行为，你会过上怎样的生活？
If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?
你能通过催眠说服一个人买车吗？
Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?
当你看着
When you look at
你的车，你会被如此美好的感觉所淹没。
your car, you're gonna become overwhelmed with such good feelings.
你能催眠别人和你上床吗？
Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?
我给了她一些性兴奋的建议。
I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
你能让别人加入你的邪教吗？
Can you get someone to join your cult?
有人曾对我使用NLP来接触我的潜意识。
NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.
《心理游戏》，一档探索NLP（即神经语言编程）的新播客。
Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neuro linguistic programming.
它究竟是自助疗法的奇迹，是 shady 的催眠骗局，还是两者兼有？
Is it a self help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both?
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《心灵游戏》。
Listen to mind games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
你知道，我们总说新年新我，但真正的改变始于内心。
You know, we always say new year, new me, but real change starts on the inside.
它始于给予你的思想和灵魂与你对待播客同样的关注，我们会谈论心理健康、疗愈、成长，以及你迈向下一个阶段所需的一切——完整而有力量。
It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered.
新年，真实的你。
New Year, real you.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听来自黑人影响播客网络的米歇尔·威廉姆斯的《自我检视》。
Listen to checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
在由我，切尔西·汉德勒主持的《亲爱的切尔西》本季中，我们邀请到了一些了不起的嘉宾，比如库梅尔·南贾尼。
This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, we've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani.
我们先从你的猫说起。
Let's start with your cat.
她现在怎么样？
How is she?
她已经不在了。
She is not with us anymore.
她很好，
She Great,
真是个不错的开端。
great, great way to start.
你可能会哭。
Maybe you will cry.
罗斯·马修斯。
Ross Matthews.
你知道孩子们总是对我说什么吗？
You know what kids always say to me?
你是男孩还是女孩？
Are you a boy or a girl?
天哪。
Oh my god.
一直如此。
All the time.
很有趣。
Funny.
我知道。
I know.
所以我试着表现得更阳刚一些，
So I try to butch it up for
让孩子们不会感到困惑。
kids so they're not confused.
是的。
Yeah.
但你表现得阳刚，本质上就像一个女人。
But the you're butching it up is basically like a a woman.
多丽丝·戴。
Doris Day.
对吧？
Right?
不对。
No.
我就会变成贝·亚瑟。
I turn into Be Arthur.
请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您常用的播客平台收听《亲爱的切尔西》这一系列节目。
Listen to these episodes of dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
这是 iHeart 播客《保证人性化》。
This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.
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