424. 如何真正改变你的坏习惯，特邀哈佛行为科学家朱莉娅·达尔

所以我不敢辞职，只能被困在一份让我不开心的工作里。

So I can't quit, so I stay trapped in a job that I know makes me unhappy, for example.

所以实际上我们要做两件事。

And so really doing two things.

第一，逼自己问清楚。

One is press yourself.

到底是我身份中的哪一部分在强烈地浮现出来？比如，我是这个朋友圈的一员。

So what's the part of my identity that is, like, really coming to the forefront here, including I'm part of this friend group.

如果我某天晚上不跟他们出去，他们可能就再也不把我当朋友了，那我这辈子就再也交不到其他朋友了。

And if, for example, I didn't go out with this friend group on a certain night, maybe they would never be my friends again, and then I would never have any more friends for the rest of my life.

所以第一点，逼自己问：我们到底在保护身份中的哪一部分？

So one is press, like, what's the part of our identity that we're really protecting?

这种想法有多真实？

And how true is that?

我真的不可能当个单身的人也过得开心吗？

Is it possible that I could not be happy as a single person?

难道宇宙中就没有其他任何一份工作，可能对我来说有意义或者让我感到满足吗？

Is it possible that there's any other job in the universe that might be meaningful or satisfying to me?

然后第二点其实是稍微往回看一点。

And then the second is actually to look back a little bit.

心理学上我们把这叫做“历史终结错觉”。

We call this in psychology the end of history illusion.

哈佛大学的丹尼尔·吉尔伯特等人最早提出了这个概念，也就是说，对大多数人来说，很难想象自己在未来会发生巨大的变化。

Daniel Gilbert and others at Harvard University pioneered this, which is it's difficult for us to imagine that we will change a lot in the future for most of us.

我们总以为这就是最终的结果。

We think this is a finished product.

但如果你让我们回顾过去，尤其是在年轻的时候，你会说，嗯，我现在26岁了。

But if you ask us to look back, especially earlier in our lives, you say, well, I'm 26 now.

如果我回顾自己16岁时的样子，问自己，我和现在有什么不同？

If I look back until I to the time when I was 16 and ask myself, am I different?

你会说，天哪。

You say, oh my gosh.

在很多方面，我其实已经是个完全不同的人了。

I'm basically a different person in so many ways.

所以，未来我很有可能也会变得跟现在大不一样。

And so I can also it's actually likely that I'll be very different in the future.

因此，试着去展望一下未来，想象一下未来的朱莉娅可能是一个完全不同的人，在完全不同的环境下过得非常幸福。如果我们现在做出一些不同的选择，其实就是在为未来的自己行善，哪怕这对现在的我们来说很难做到。

And so being able to do a little bit of that prospection and imagine that future Julia could be a totally different person, happy in a totally different set of circumstances, and that by making some different choices now, we could actually be doing something very kind for that future version of ourselves, even if it's hard to do it for the present version of ourselves.

是的。

Yeah.

其实我挺喜欢这么想的。

I love thinking that way, actually.

我经常琢磨这件事，心想，时间反正都要流逝，这难道不挺神奇的吗？

I I think about that a lot where I'm just like, wow, isn't it amazing that the time's gonna pass anyways?

而且你看，二十多岁的一年，感觉相当于其他阶段的好几年。

And in one year like, a year in your twenties is like five years everywhere else.

确实是这样。

I do.

我完全相信这一点。

I fully believe that.

很多事情都会变的。

Like, so much can change.

不过你说得真好，时间总会过去。

I love what you said though, by the way, which is the time is going to pass anyway.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

That's true.

时间就是会过去。

The time is gonna pass anyway.

总会有人抓住这个机会，而你可能都没举手争取。

Someone is going to get this opportunity that you may or may not raise your hand for.

如果你愿意主动一点，很多关系——友情、爱情、职场上的——都会向你敞开。

And there's a set of relationships, friendship, romantic, professional that are available to you if you put yourself out there.

时间反正都会过去的。

The time is going to pass anyway.

所以，你不如干脆冒个险，搏一把。

And so you might as well take a chance to take a risk.

你在二十多岁时承担风险带来的回报，远远高于你人生其他阶段。

And the returns on that risk taking in your twenties are so much higher than through the rest of your life.

确实是这样。

Yeah.

比如说，明天，对，你可能才坚持健康饮食二十四小时，或者你可能才二十四小时没抽烟或电子烟，但三天后，那就是七十二小时了。

Well, like, tomorrow, yeah, you may only have been eating healthy for twenty four hours or you may only have not, you know, vaped or smoked for for for twenty four hours, but then in three days, it's gonna be seventy two hours.

然后突然之间，就变成了六个月，你会觉得，反正时间都在流逝。

And then suddenly, it's gonna be six months, and it's like, well, the time is passing anyways.

而且，其实你只需要在那个当下坚持住，不做你说过要戒掉的事，你就能拥有全新的生活。

And, like, every all you have to do was be present in that moment and not or do the thing that you said you were gonna do, and you have this whole new life.

所以这些例子很有意思。

So they're very interesting.

这个问题我一直记在我的问题清单里，特别想问你。

This is a question I I, like, have highlighted on my question list that I really wanna ask you.

我相信很多人都听过这个说法，说要九十天才能改掉一个坏习惯。

I am sure a lot of us have heard about the magic number that it takes ninety days to break a bad habit.

这个说法现在特别火。

This is a very, like, viral idea.

真的吗？

Is that true?

不是。

No.

我不确定改掉一个习惯到底需要多长时间。

I don't know exactly how long it takes to break a habit.

但我很确定

I feel very confident that

答案肯定不是九十天。

the answer is not ninety days Mhmm.

大多数时候都是这样。

Most of the time.

我们其实都可以想一想，要反驳这个说法其实很简单：每个人都能举出例子，比如某个朋友、家人，甚至自己，有一天突然决定戒烟、戒酒，或者开始锻炼。

And we can all think about it's a really easy way to disprove this, which is we can all think of examples of a friend or a relative, perhaps ourselves, who one day says I have decided to quit smoking, for example, or quit drinking or take up exercising.

然后他们真的做到了。

And they somehow do.

从此以后，这个人就再也没做过那件事。

Then for the rest of their life, that person doesn't do that thing anymore.

同样，我们也能想到另一些人，尽管听了好多建议、得到了很多鼓励，甚至试了很多次，还是没法改变或成长，很难摆脱坏习惯。

And we can equally think about people at the opposite end of the spectrum who, with a lot of advice, with a lot of encouragement, are not able to change or evolve, maybe even with a lot of attempts to break a bad habit.

有充分的证据表明，真正把一个新习惯刻进脑子里，可能需要四天到两百五十五天不等。

There's good evidence that suggests that to really internalize a new habit in your mind can take anywhere from between four and about 255 Mhmm.

这范围可就大了，说明在大脑里建立新的神经通路，让某种行为变成自动反应，过程差异真的很大。

Which is obviously a really wide spectrum in terms of creating and establishing new neural pathways in your brain so that whatever the behavior is becomes automatic.

当然，我们也不是完全无能为力，有些方法确实能帮我们加快这个过程——我猜很多人会想，要是能四天就搞定，谁愿意等两百五十六天啊。

There are, for sure, things we can do to make it easier because I could imagine people saying, I'd like it to take four days rather than two hundred and fifty six days.

我刚才也在想这个。

Was thinking that.

我同意你的看法。

I'm with you.

我知道。

I know.

我就希望只要四天就行。

Like I'd like the four days.

我能经常选这个吗？

Can I choose that first often?

我们能自己决定要多少天吗？

Do we get to pick how many days?

如果可以的话，选四天。

And if so, four.

我希望只要四天就能完成。

I'd like it to take four days.

你可以做些事情，让目标从二百五十六天缩短到四天。

Things you can do to bring yourself closer to four days rather than two hundred and fifty six days.

第一，把它写下来。

Number one, you can write it down.

第二，告诉别人你的打算。

Number two, you can tell somebody else about it.

这样就能清楚地明确你的目标。

So that's clearly articulate your goal.

你可以让目标变得可见，让别人也知道，同时调整你的环境和日常情境，减少这个习惯出现的机会，让它对你没那么有吸引力。

You can make it visible and social to people, and you can shift your environment, shift the context in which you operate to make it less likely that the habit is available or attractive to you as well.

所以这就是

So this is

我觉得九十天这个说法的问题所在。

the other thing I feel like is the problem with the ninety day thing.

我不知道你有没有同感，就是改掉一个坏习惯需要九十天。

And I wonder if you have the same thought, which is it takes ninety days to break a bad habit.

但一旦你挺过那段时期，如果这个习惯能陪你一辈子，谁说它不是一天就养成了呢？

But once you're past that if you keep the habit for the rest of your life, who's to say it didn't take one day?

那后来怎么样了？

Then what happened?

没错。

Exactly.

所以啊，说是九十天养成新习惯，但要是第一百天你又回去抽烟了，你懂我意思吧？

Like so it's like ninety days to set a new habit, but so it's like, well, if I go back to smoking or whatever on day a 100, did you know what I mean?

这说不通啊，既然新习惯已经养成了，那应该是一辈子的事才对。

Like, doesn't make sense because if you've set the new habit, surely it lasts forever.

你明白我在说什么吗？

Like, do you know what I'm saying?

我觉得挺有意思的。

Like, I think it's funny.

你这话讲得真有意思。

What you're saying.

这观点太棒了，因为只要你稍微想一想，就能明白为什么你做的事特别重要——你帮人们真正搞清楚背后的心理学和科学原理。

And it's such a good point because if we think about it for even a second and this is why it's so important, I think, for you to do exactly what you do and help people, like, really unpack, like, the science behind this psychology.

你停下来想一想，就会明白了。

You pause and think about it for a second and see.

这真的可能吗？

Is that likely?

难道每个人都是正好九十天就能养成习惯吗？

Like, is it likely that for everyone, ninety days is the magic number?

当然不太可能。

Of course, it's not likely.

这甚至算得上一个有用的参考吗？

Is it even a helpful guide?

其实算不上。

Not really.

我们更该鼓励人们去想的是：与其说‘我已经改变了’，不如说‘我一直在改变’。

And instead, what we should be perhaps encouraging people to think about is the idea that instead of saying, I have changed, what I'm basically always doing is changing.

我一直在成长，也希望自己能朝着更积极的方向前进。

Like, I'm always evolving and hopefully, like, moving towards something more positive.

一辈子都躲着负面的东西，实在太难了。

It's very hard to run away from something negative for the rest of your life.

但如果我们能一直告诉自己，我只想做出越来越好的、对自己和他人更友善的选择，那么每一天，我都有机会重新做一次选择。

But if we can continue to say, all I'm trying to do is make a set of better and better, kinder and kinder to myself and to others choices, then every single day, I get the chance to make the choice again.

这样想，感觉会特别积极，而不是让人觉得累，比如‘我得爬起来，又得决定不抽烟了’。

And hopefully, that feels really positive rather than exhausting to people of, oh, I gotta get up and decide not to smoke again.

得爬起来，出去决定今晚要怎么表现。

Gotta get up and go out and decide how I'm gonna show up in this night.

但不如说，咱们一步一步来。

But instead say, let's take you one step at a time.

我们始终都在成为自己的路上。

We're always in the process of becoming who we are.

我觉得这种思维方式真的很聪明，就是别把改变习惯当成失去什么，而要看成是增加些什么。

I actually think that is such a smart way of thinking about it, which is stop thinking about changing habits as deprivation, but instead as as addition.

我觉得他们做过特别棒的研究，发现与其告诉自己‘别吃棉花糖’‘别做那件事’，不如主动选择去做点别的事，要容易得多。

And I think they've done amazing amazing studies where it is so much easier to well, it's so much harder to say don't eat the marshmallow or don't do the thing than say opt into doing something.

你可以把注意力放在‘去做这个活动’，而不是‘别吃棉花糖’；把习惯或行为改变看作是给生活增添一份礼物，而不是‘我这辈子都得戒酒’。

Opt into like, do this activity instead of eating the marshmallow or like, think about the habit or think about behavioral change as something that is like a gift or an addition to your life rather than just like, oh, I have to spend the rest of my life not drinking.

我这辈子都得戒掉碳水化合物。

I have to spend the rest of my life not eating carbs.

我得说，这个例子举得不太恰当。

I will not that that's a terrible habit example.

但问题是，我难道真要一辈子剥夺自己某些东西，才能获得幸福吗？

But, like, I have to spend the rest of my life depriving myself of something in order to be happy.

你应该这么想：我这一生，或者今天，我醒来的时候，肺部感觉更轻松了。

It's like, oh, you get to spend the rest of your life, you know, or today's a day I get to wake up and, like, my lungs feel even better.

今天醒来，我可以试试一款新的无酒精鸡尾酒。

Today's a day that I get to wake up and try a new mocktail.

今天醒来，我能真正地好好滋养自己的身体，那种感觉特别充实。

Today's the day I get to wake up and, like, really nourish my body in, like, a way that feels so fruitful.

我觉得这种行为上的转变特别棒，这大概就是你想要表达的意思吧。

I feel like that's such a good behavioral shift, and that's what I'm hearing you kinda say.

对吧？

Right?

我喜欢跟自己进行内心对话，但更积极的问法其实是：这对我有什么好处？

I like the idea of having a inner debate with yourself, but the really positive form of the question is, like, what's in it for me?

比如说，这对我有什么好处？

Like, what's in it for me?

我为什么要这么做呢？

Why would I even do this?

当你能慢慢对自己说：我知道这么做有什么好处了，就像你刚才说的那些例子，还有更多类似的，你就能不断提醒自己，其实有很多收获正在到来。

And the more you can start to say to yourself, oh, like, I know what's in it for me, and it is all those examples that you just gave and probably many more for people, you get to remind yourself that there are benefits that are coming.

更棒的是，你能提醒自己那些已经实现的好处。

Even better is if you can remind yourself of benefits that are here already.

我已经省下不少钱了。

And I've saved money.

我会去和一个我想修复关系的人聊天。

I go to have a conversation with someone that I'm trying to repair a relationship with.

比如我参加过一个舞蹈健身课，摔倒了，但当时在很多人面前摔倒，我也没因为尴尬而崩溃。

For example, I tried a workout dance class and fell down, but I also fell down in front of a lot of people and I did not die, like, of embarrassment.

我对自己有了新的、积极的认识。

Like, I have learned something new and positive about myself.

未来的好处固然好，但对我们来说很难想象。

So there are not only benefits that are coming in the future, which is good, but still hard for us to imagine.

但我现在就已经在获得好处了。

But I'm getting benefits right now.

这太棒了。

I love that.

这对我有什么好处？

What's in it for me?

这对我有什么好处？

What's in it for me?

比如，如果你

Like, if you

想要改变自己的行为，你肯定会想，这对我有什么好处？

wanna change your behavior, you'd be like, what's in it for me?

我明天能得到什么？

What am I gonna gain tomorrow?

再说一次，就像我们之前提到的小胜利那样，让自己尽早取得一些成果，哪怕是大胜或者至少是小胜，总之要尽早赢点什么。

And, again, like, were talking about that small win, like, setting yourself up to win big or at least small, but win something, like, really, really early on.

而且它也很飘忽不定，你没法下单买，没法借来用，更别指望光靠希望就能把它变出来。但现在，开启通往更快乐生活的新路径，有了种既新鲜又令人兴奋的方式。

And also elusive you can't order it you can't borrow it or simply hope it into life but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.

《快乐101》是一档全新的播客，由我主持。我们将与世界上最迷人的人物进行深度对话——无论是娱乐界的传奇、体育界的偶像、健康领域的专家，还是普通大众，都会分享他们如何发现、接纳并体验快乐，我也会分享一些自己的心得和建议，帮助大家追求更平衡、和谐的生活。如果你渴望灵感、支持和实用的工具来最大化你的快乐，那就来听听这些坦诚、鼓舞人心且动人的对谈吧。无论是分手后的快乐、孩子离家后的快乐、失去亲人后的快乐，还是作为照顾者的快乐，这档新播客都能与你产生共鸣。在iHeartRadio App、Apple Podcasts或你收听播客的任何平台，搜索《快乐101》即可收听。

Joy one zero one it's a new podcast hosted by me how to copy together guys will have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people entertainment legends sports icons wellness experts and everyday people will share how they find allow and experience joy and offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life if you're craving inspiration support and useful tools to maximize your joy tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats joy after a breakup joy is an empty nester joy after a loss joy as a caretaker this new podcast will speak to you listen to joy one zero one on the iheart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家都把我看作一名足球运动员，但在这一切之前，我首先是一个人。

Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human.

每一天，我都在学习如何与问题、错误、人际关系和情绪共处，从出生到现在，从未停止。

Every single day, I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born.

我还有很多问题没想明白。

And I still have so many questions.

我们从哪儿来？

Where do we come from?

人死后会怎样？

What happens after death?

被人网暴了该怎么应对？

How do you deal with cancellation?

C罗和梅西，你选谁？

Cristiano or Messi?

外星人真的存在吗？

Do aliens exist?

爱到底是什么？

What is love?

皇马和巴萨，你站哪一边？

Real Madrid or Barca.

从日常平凡，到深刻非凡。

From everyday and ordinary to the deep and extraordinary.

这可不是普通的播客。

This isn't a normal podcast.

这里的一切都是即兴的、真实的、发自内心的。

Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine.

这个播客就像和最亲近的朋友深聊，掏心窝子的话都出来了。

This podcast is like a deep talk with your closest friends where vulnerability comes out.

阴谋论摆上台面，目标和教训也一一探讨，我们就是为了连接彼此。

Conspiracy theories end up on the table, and goals and lessons are We are here to connect.

我是哈维尔·克塞皮托·埃尔南德斯，和iHeartRadio一起，我们要把平凡变得不平凡。

I'm Javier Xperito Hernandez, and together with iHeartRadio, we're going to make the ordinary extraordinary.

别走开。

Stay close.

在iHeartRadio、Apple Podcast，或者你常用的任何平台收听《学习做真人》。

Listen to Learning to be human on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你好。

Hi.

我是克里斯·法尔班克斯。

I'm Chris Fairbanks.

我是凯伦·基加里夫。

And I'm Karen Kilgariff.

我们主持《需要搭车吗？》这个移动喜剧播客，内容就是带着喜剧演员朋友在洛杉矶的街头乱转，录下一路上的对话。

We host Do You Need A Ride, the mobile comedy podcast that answers the question, what does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends around the wild streets of Los Angeles?

没错。

Yes.

每周我们都会接一位特别搞笑的嘉宾，可能顺路办点事，聊聊天，分享笑声和梦想。

Every week, we pick up a hilarious guest, maybe run some errands, share some laughs, and our dreams.

比如玛莎·凯利讲她职业转型的经历。

Like when Martha Kelly shared her career pivot.

我想成为一位专注于离异妈妈的博主，孩子都上大学走了，她们决定为自己而活。

I wanna become a influencer of divorced moms whose kids have gone off to college who have decided they're gonna start living life for themselves.

还有一次，巴伦·冯被沿途壮丽的风景给吸引住了。

Or the time Baron Von got distracted by the majestic scenery.

然后就有一只鹿，就在路边上，

Then there's a freaking deer right there in the side of the

马路啊，天哪。

road Holy shit.

正吃着路边的草呢。

Eating freaking road grass.

路啊，你还不如说成是玻璃呢。

Road I wish you said glass.

每周一，新一期节目都在Exactly Right网络平台上线。

New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.

你可以在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客，或者你常用的任何播客平台收听《需要搭车吗？》。

Listen to do you need a ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

谢谢。

Thank you.

不客气。

You're welcome.

黑人音乐、美食和文化教会了我们，我们正在成为怎样的人？

What did black music, food, and culture teach us about who we were becoming?

2016年算是最后那个文化高度统一的年代，那时候我们

2016 was sort of that last era of monoculture where we

还是一起分享同一种流行文化。

still consumed things in community.

从碧昂丝到蕾哈娜，人人都想成为碧昂丝。

From Beyonce and Rihanna Everybody wanted to be Beyonce.

唉。

Ugh.

我觉得再也不会有第二个蕾哈娜了。

I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna.

还有灵魂食物、记忆、身份，以及黑人文化中代代相传的故事。

To soul food, memory, identity, and the stories we carry through black culture.

做一名黑人意味着什么？

What does it mean to be black?

在美国吃饭又意味着什么？

And eat in America.

我们这一代人懂得如何耕作土地，懂得如何与土地共存。

So we were this group of people who knew how to work the land, who knew how to live with the land.

我们能让土地发挥出它该有的样子。

We make it do what it do.

《黑人女孩的疗愈》正在汇聚当下塑造黑人生活的重要对话。

Therapy for Black Girls is bringing together the conversation shaping Black life right now.

你永远别想让我因为自己是黑人女孩、是黑人美国女孩而感到羞愧。

You will never make me feel bad for being a Black girl, for being a Black American girl ever.

《黑人女孩的疗愈》把这一切都带到了话筒前。

Therapy for Black Girls is bringing it all to the mic.

可以在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple Podcast，或者你常用的任何播客平台收听《黑人女孩的疗愈》。

Listen to therapy for black girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

你跟我说过，嘿，要坚持下去，因为你让我为你说唱。

You said to me, yo, you know, keep at it because you let me rap for you.

对我们所有人来说，这都太神奇了。

It was magical for all of us.

我们做到了。

We made it.

我们做到了。

We made it.

我们做不到。

We can't.

我当时就想，我们？

I'm like, we?

你知道吗，我认识这些人，但你是谁？

You know, I'm like, I know these guys, but who

你指的是谁？

are you?

我是MC Jin，接下来是最后一位嘉宾。

I'm MC Jin, and this is last but not least.

我会和来自不同背景的嘉宾聊聊，幽默在面对困境时有多大的力量。

I'll be chatting with guests from all walks of life about the power of humor when it comes to facing difficult times.

比如Rough Riders的联合创始人达伦·D·迪恩。

Like the co founder of Rough Riders, Darren D Dean.

你还记得我们以前见过吗？甚至更早之前？

Talking about as a kid, do you remember that we met even way before that?

让我想想，你是不是曾经走到门口？

Let me think, did you walk up to the gate?

对，那是我，Thea。

That was me, Thea.

那是你？

That was you?

对，是我。

That was me.

那天我们得知你和整个团队都在Hit Factory，任务就是让我走到门口，开始freestyle，看看能不能混进去。

The day we found out that you and the whole crew was at Hit Factory, the mission was to get me to go to the gate, start freestyling, and see if I could get in the studio.

我正在说唱，突然听见一个声音。

I'm rapping, and then suddenly, I hear a voice.

喂。

Hey.

把门打开。

Open the gate.

让他进来。

Let let him in.

门缓缓地开了。

The gate slowly went.

所有人都在看着，看着我走进去，那一刻我一辈子都忘不了。

All they're watching this, and they watch me walk into there, and that is a moment that I will remember for the rest of my life.

听好了。

Listen.

最后但同样重要的是，请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple Podcast 或你收听播客的任何平台上关注 MCGyn。

And last but not least with MCGyn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

我想快速回到之前提到的一个话题。我一直很想就这些方面深入请教你的看法。

I wanna just quickly go back to one thing that we again, I keep I keep, like, wanting to pick your brain about all these things.

为什么动机和自律，尤其是动机，会经常让我们失望？

Why does motivation and discipline but mainly, I would say, actually, why does motivation fail us so often?

为什么那些拥有无限动力的人，往往并不总是能取得成功？

And why is it that people who have all the motivation in the world are often the ones who don't always that that aren't always successful?

因为如果没有一个切实可行的计划、合适的支持以及良好的环境，光有动力只会让人觉得太吃力。

Because motivation without both a really good plan, the right support, and the right environment is just too much effort.

你基本上就是在不停地往墙上撞。

You are basically constantly pushing against a brick wall.

所以这其实是一种把你困在自己良好初衷里的方式。

And so it is a way of trapping you in your own good intentions.

这真的很可惜，因为人们真的应该有机会把心理学、行为科学和神经科学里的智慧都利用起来，为自己谋利。

And that's so unfortunate because people really deserve a chance to take all of the wisdom from psychology, from behavioral science, from neuroscience, and use it to their own advantage.

如果我们只是对人说，哦，我觉得你需要再多一点动力。

And if we just say to people, oh, I think you need a little bit more motivation.

这就像是在对人说，别产生抵触情绪。

It's like saying to people, don't get defensive.

这样做只会产生与你期望完全相反的效果。

Like, it's gonna produce the exact opposite of the behavior that you hope it will.

所以，当你自己感受到那种动力时，因为动力本身并不是坏事，只是不够用，你能拿它做些什么呢？

And so when you feel that sense of motivation for yourself, because it's not motivation is not bad, it's just not enough, what can you do with it?

与其说，好吧，今天是1月1号，我感觉动力满满。

Instead of saying, okay, well, today, it's the January 1, I feel very motivated.

我要出去跑15英里，然后吃沙拉，再睡足八小时的高质量睡眠。

I'm gonna go out and run 15 miles and then I will eat a salad and then I will get eight hours of very good quality sleep.

更好的做法是，利用这份动力去制定一个计划。

A really good thing that you could do instead is I'm gonna take that motivation and use it to create a plan.

利用它去找个伙伴，让他在你做事的过程中支持你。

I'm gonna use it to find a buddy to support me in what I am doing.

我会利用这份动力，去想象一周后回到工作、忙得不可开交时的自己，为那时候的朱莉娅制定计划，而不是只针对今天的我。

I'm gonna use that motivation to actually imagine what it's gonna feel like in a week when I'm back at work and extremely busy and make a plan for that version of Julia rather than today's version of Julia.

那么，动力能成为人们改变的推动力吗？

So can motivation be a fuel for people to change?

当然可以。

Of course.

没错。

Yes.

它能持续很久吗？

Does it last a very long time?

不能。

No.

它撑不了多久。

It doesn't.

一旦遇到其他障碍，动力往往就显得力不从心了。

And when it meets other obstacles, it is very often not enough in the face of those obstacles.

当我们因为自己或别人缺乏动力、缺乏意志力而责备他们时，这其实非常没有帮助。

And it is really, really unhelpful when we judge ourselves or judge other people for not having enough motivation, not having enough willpower.

他们光靠动力和意志力，本来就不大可能成功。

It wasn't ever likely that they were gonna be successful on motivation and willpower alone.

我经常在想这个问题，虽然这可能有点跑题，但咱们先说说，回头再接回去。

I think about this all the time whenever and this is a total, like, curveball to throw you, but we'll do the detour, come back.

每当我看到网上有人批评超重的人，我就会想到这个。

I think about this all the time when I see people, like, criticize people who are overweight on the Internet.

他们就说：你只要有点意志力就行。

And they're like, just have some willpower.

你只要有点自律就好了。

Just have some discipline.

我觉得这种想法简直太荒谬了，居然会觉得光靠这些就能让人改变，或者曾经真的足够让人改变。

And I'm like, that is honestly so ridiculous to think that that is enough and that that was ever enough for you to change or ever enough for anybody.

我们所处的环境、成长的环境、物理空间的设置，还有现代社会的结构，都注定了要改变行为极其困难——因为你得对抗自己所有的过往经历、现代生活的种种压力，以及你早已养成的应对方式。

Like, the way that our environment, our childhood environments are set up, the way that our physical environments are set up, the way that modern society is set up means that it is more likely than not that you will not change your behavior because of how exhausting it is to go against all your history, all, like, the stresses of modern life, all the coping skills that you have to change.

所以我特别认同你刚才说的，光靠动机和意志力，对谁来说都不够。

So I love that you're saying, like, that's motivation and willpower, like, is not enough for anybody.

如果有人说自己成功了，那肯定是因为当时还有其他因素在起作用，比如触觉上的变化、人际关系的变化，或者环境的变化，这些都在同时发生。

And if for somebody to say that it was meant that there were probably other things going on, the tactile things, the relational things, the environmental things that are, like, also shifting at the same time.

这确实是个特别好的例子。

It's also such a good example.

如果我们再稍微绕远一点，你刚才问到的这个问题，正好完美诠释了行为经济学，以及现在心理学里常说的一个概念，叫基本归因错误。

And if we can extend the detour even a little further, what you ask about is such a good example of what we call in behavioral economics, but also now in psychology, the fundamental attribution error.

基本上，我觉得自己是一个复杂、独特、特别且完整的人。

And, basically, I experience myself as a very complicated, unique, special, fully realized human being.

在我自己眼里，我是一个完整的人。

I'm a complete person to myself.

即使是我们非常熟悉、关系很亲密的人，在各个方面对我们来说也依然像陌生人一样。

And even people that we know very well, very intimately remain sort of strangers to us in all kinds of ways.

我们不仅永远无法真正理解他们，而且他们作为一个人，也永远不像我们自身那样完整。

And we can not only never properly understand them, but they're never quite as complete as we are as a person.

所以结果就是，我们特别容易把责任推给别人，觉得肯定是他们的错，还急着下结论，觉得他们这个人有问题，但换作自己却不会这么想。

And so a consequence of that is we are extremely quick to both blame, it was probably their fault, and to judge, there is something wrong with them, other people in ways that we might not for ourselves.

举个很典型的例子：如果有人开会或参加活动迟到了，尤其是当我们本来就对他们有偏见时，我们可能会说：‘唉，肯定是他太乱了。’

It's a really good example is if someone is late to a meeting or to an event, especially if we're inclined to judge them, we might say, ugh, I mean, of course, they're very disorganized.

这种事情总发生。

This always happens.

他根本不尊重人。

They they are not respectful.

我们一下子就跳到结论，觉得他这个人不行。

And we've jumped really fast to, like, they're not a good person.

他根本不重视我们的关系。

They don't value our relationships.

但反过来，我每次迟到，肯定都有特别合理的理由。

Whereas, of course, in 100% of the situations where I have been late, there's obviously a very good explanation.

通常都是外部原因造成的。

The usually outside of myself.

火车晚点了。

The train was delayed.

有别人特别需要我。

Someone else really needed me.

也许我刚参加完一个很重要的会议。

Perhaps I was coming from a very important meeting.

这种基本归因错误——总是把自身的失误归咎于外界，却把别人的不足归咎于他们本人——非常危险，因为它不仅让我们不愿正视自己，还让我们难以对他人更宽容、更包容，甚至更愿意提供帮助。

And so that fundamental attribution error, the tendency to externalize our own mistakes and to blame other people for their limitations is really dangerous because it not only prevents us taking a hard look at ourselves, but also prevents us being more forgiving, more welcoming, maybe even more helpful to that person.

我经常这样。

I do this all the time.

我听出来你说的就是这个。

I'm hearing you say that.

我想起来了，今天早上我就干过这种事。

I was like, oh, I did this this morning.

有个人走在我前面，我当时就觉得，这人真没素质。

There was like somebody walking in front of me and I was like, that person is so rude.

我心想，他们难道看不见这条人行道有多挤吗？

I was like, can't they see that this is a busy sidewalk?

结果五分钟之后，我自己也干了同样的事。

And then I literally did it, like, five minutes later.

我当时还觉得，这不一样，你知道的，但接着我又想，不对。

And I was like, well, that's different because, you know and then I was like, no.

这其实没什么不同。

It's not different.

你是不是也曾在马路中间停下来给别人发消息？

You're like, I had to pause in the middle of the street to text someone.

我那会儿可真是够糟的。

My thing was so bad.

我当时完全迷路了。

I was lost.

我心想，根本不知道自己要去哪儿。

I was like, don't know where I was going.

我想，这个人可能也没意识到。

Was like, well, this person probably didn't either.

我觉得特别有意思，我们刚才聊的其实就是在说同理心，别轻易评判别人的状态，对吧。

I know it's so interesting to like, basically, what we're just talking about is, like, empathy and, like, not judging other people's progress or yeah.

他们可能并没有

What they may or

什么应对的工具。

may not have, like, in their toolkit.

我一直觉得行为科学的第一条原则就是：人都是人，你也是。

I always think the first law of behavioral science is people are people and so are you.

所以你可以对别人宽容一些，

And so you can be forgiving

是的。

Yeah.

但对自己却保持很高的要求。

Of other people while having very high expectations for yourself.

所以说到底，人都是人，你也是。

And so indeed, people are people and so are you.

对。

Yeah.

这句话太棒了。

I love that.

好的。

Okay.

咱们来聊聊怎么改变自己的行为吧。

Let's talk about how we're gonna change our behavior.

你刚才给了我们好多小贴士，像是一路撒下的宝藏。

You've been giving us so many little snippets, like, little treats along the way.

但我现在想，咱们能不能请专家给个更系统的指导？

But I'm like, I let's get a little bit of a let's get a little bit of a guide down from an expert.

在你看来，有哪些经过科学验证、最有效的方法，能帮助个人、家庭、亲密关系，甚至整个组织改变行为？

What are, in your mind, some of the most scientifically successful ways to change behavior on an individual level, in a family level, on in a relationship level, maybe even an organizational level?

我们怎么才能让人，包括我们自己，发生改变呢？

How do we make people, including ourselves, change?

首先，

First,

要具体。

get specific.

其次，要诚实。

And second, get honest.

咱们来点实际的。

So let's be really practical about it.

先说说个人吧。

And let's just talk about individuals for a second.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我们再聊聊，比起改变自己，改变别人其实更有趣，也更有效。

And then we can talk about much more enjoyable than trying to change yourself, trying to change other people the best.

那我们不如就这么做。

Let's do that instead.

但暂时先假设，我们确实需要认真努力去改变自己。

But let's, for the moment, assume that we have to make a sincere effort to change ourselves.

好的。

K.

要具体。

Get specific.

你想要改变的具体行为是什么？

What is the behavior that you are trying to change?

比如，‘戒酒’并不是一个具体行为。

And so, for example, quit drinking is not a behavior.

那只是一个模糊的目标，或者说是你不想再做的各种行为的总称。

That's just a, like, loose goal or it's a kind of category of activities that you don't wanna be doing anymore.

比如，决定每天晚上都不再喝第二杯，这样我们就开始聚焦到你真正想做到的具体事情上了。

Deciding not to have a second drink, for example, on any given night, right, like, we're starting to get specific on what you are seeking to do.

这非常容易衡量。

It's very clearly measurable.

所以要具体一点。

So get specific.

我们之前已经几次提到过，把目标写下来，哪怕从不给别人看，也非常有帮助。

We've already talked a few times about the idea that writing a goal down, even if you never show it to people, is very helpful.

它好像能触发我们大脑里的某种机制。

It seems to trip some kind of cognitive switch for us.

向别人寻求帮助，也是另一种非常有效的方法。

Asking people for help is another thing that you can do that is really powerful and useful.

比如说，当我晚上想再喝一杯的时候，我可以给某个人发条信息。

And and so that might be, I have someone that I could text when I am thinking about for to extend this example, having a second drink that night.

你还可以做另一件事，这在团队和组织里特别管用：试着想象一下，如果你真的做出了这个决定，未来会是什么样子。

The other thing that you can do, and this works really well in organizations and teams as well, and is, like, let's start to imagine what that future would be like if I may decide or I make this choice that I'm trying to move away from.

如果我真的想再喝一杯，或者想到要去联系那个跟我关系很糟的人，那时候我该怎么做？

If it happens, if I want to have a second drink, if I think about calling that person who I actually have a pretty destructive relationship with, then what should I do?

如果我产生了这种感觉，因为情绪往往先于想法出现，那我接下来可能会怎么想？

If I have this feeling, because feelings often precede our thoughts, then what am I likely to think?

比如，我应该给那个人打电话。

Like, I should call that person.

那我应该怎么做才好呢？

And what should I do instead?

非常关键的一点是，我们需要有一个可以替代原有行为的新做法。

Really important is that we have some kind of replacement for the behavior.

所以举个例子，比如在酒吧里，我会点什么别的呢？

So a good example, like, in a pub would be, well, what would I order instead?

这时候，知道自己该点什么替代饮品，会很有帮助。

Like, that might be a really good moment to know what my alternative order is.

如果你从没想过除了第二杯酒之外还能点什么，那最好在行动前先有个计划。

If you never contemplated what you would order other than a second drink, it might be good to have a plan going in before you before you do so.

接下来要做的是，一旦完成了这个目标的一小部分，我们之前讨论过这一点。

And then the next thing to do is to say, well, once I've accomplished a really small version of that goal, we've talked about it.

也许你能连续二十四小时成功达成目标。

It could be twenty four hours of successfully achieving the goal.

也可能是三十六小时。

It could be thirty six.

甚至可能是一个月。

It could be a month.

那接下来会发生什么？

Then what happens?

我该给自己什么样的奖励？

What reward might I give myself?

有意思的是，奖励往往能给我们很强的动力。

One of the funny things that happens is that the reward is often very motivating to us.

我们很容易被奖励的念头吸引，但真到了那一刻，却发现它并没有想象中那么重要。

We're seduced by the idea of the reward but once you get there, you find it wasn't that important to you.

因为你根本不需要或不想要那个奖励品——完成目标本身，就已经是最大的回报了。

Like, you didn't want or need the thing that you are gonna reward yourself with because the goal itself has become and its own reward.

所以一开始就要明确具体，争取支持，包括来自你自己大脑的支持，明确你打算改做什么，然后制定好你的‘如果……就……’应对方案。

So get specific upfront, get support, including from your own brain about what you're going to do instead, and then have your if then escape plan.

对。

Yeah.

这种‘如果……就……’的意图设定真的特别好用。

The if then intentions are so good.

我觉得这跟詹姆斯·克利尔在《原子习惯》里讲的那些理念特别契合。

I feel like very who I feel like James Clear wrote about them a lot in Atomic Atomic Atomic Habits?

《原子习惯》。

Atomic Habits.

听起来挺基础的，但我最喜欢的一点是，它不只是说换个计划那么简单。

And it sounds really basic, but one of the things that I love about it is it's not just, oh, there's a different plan.

而是那种我们一直在分岔路口徘徊的感觉，你会意识到，总是有不同的选择摆在面前。

But that idea that we're kind of constantly on branching pathways and you say to yourself, oh, like, there are always a different set of choices.

对。

Yeah.

这就像一场永远可以选择不同路径的冒险。

Like, there were always this was always a choose your own adventure.

我随时都能做出别的选择，现在就是这样一个时刻，我可以这么做。

I could always have made different choices And this is just one of those moments where I can do that.

我觉得我们一直在回到这一点上。

I feel like this is what we keep coming back to.

你才是自己现实的主宰。

It's like you're in charge of your reality.

用实际行动证明给自己看，你真的能做主。

Prove it to yourself that you can be in charge.

没错。

Exactly.

没有人会比你更在意这件事。

And then no one no one cares more than you.

真的，没人会比你更上心。

Like, no one will care more than you.

但我希望另一个更让人解脱的想法是——有时候这需要时间才能明白，有时候你只是恰好有机会领悟到：其实根本没人在意。

But I hope the other really liberating thought, and sometimes this comes with time and sometimes you just have the opportunity to learn it, is no one cares.

这其实是一个很棒的视角：你可以随心所欲，因为大多数人根本没怎么留意你。

And that's a really good version of that, which is you can do whatever you want because most people are just not paying that much attention.

这简直太棒了。

Oh, it's the best.

对。

Yeah.

人们更多是在琢磨自己，琢磨自己在那种场合下该怎么表现，根本没空去关注你做了什么，更谈不上觉得你有多特别，甚至可能压根觉得你这事无聊。

People are thinking an awful lot about themselves and how they're showing up in that situation and aren't finding whatever you are doing particularly memorable and in the best possible way, perhaps not even that interesting to them.

我觉得这完全是另一个话题了。

I feel like that is a completely different conversation.

但一旦你真明白了，就会恍然大悟。

But once you realize that, it's like, oh, wow.

当我不再整天担心别人怎么看我——而其实他们根本没在看的时候，整个世界都变得不一样了，这真的是一种巨大的自由。

This whole so much more about the world is possible to me when I don't have this entire part of my brain thinking about how somebody else is perceiving me when they're not like, it's it's a huge freedom, I think.

你听没听过丹尼尔·卡尼曼说的？你觉得自己有多重要，其实根本没那么重要。

You heard so Daniel Kahneman said, like, nothing is important as you think it is while you are thinking about it.

我觉得从个人心理角度来说，就是我其实没自己想的那么有意思。

And I think the personal psychology version of that is I'm just not as interesting as I think I am.

对。

Yeah.

这话说出来有点扎心，但想想也挺让人释然的——别人根本没那么在意你。

And that's a little confronting, but hopefully also wildly freeing for people, but just not that interesting to other people.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以把焦点暂时转移到别人身上。

You can put the spotlight on somebody else for a while.

说到改变行为这个话题，整期节目都在聊这个，但具体到这一块，失败了怎么办？

Following this vein of how to change behavior, the vein being the entire episode, but following this specific vein, what happens when you fail?

我们之前聊了很多，说你会试很多次。

You know, we've talked a lot about how you will try multiple times.

很可能。

Likely.

你很可能也会这样。

You likely will.

我记得看过一个数据，说人们平均要尝试二十五到三十次，行为才能真正养成，前提是能养成的话。

I think I read the statistic that people try on average, like, 25, 30 times before a behavior sticks, if it ever does.

那当你发现自己又退步了、跌倒了，事情没按你设想的方向发展时，该怎么办呢？

What's the protocol then for when you've noticed that you've slipped, you've fallen, it hasn't gone the way that you wanted it to?

杰玛，我能不能说一句，刚才那句话可能是整期节目里最重要的一句。

Jemma, can I just say, I think that was the most important sentence in the whole episode?

当你失败的时候，会发生什么？

What happens when you fail?

我接触的很多人，尤其是那些 CEOs 和资深高管，生活和事业都挺稳定的，他们就是不肯说‘我们失败了’或者‘我失败了’，只愿意说‘如果我们失败了’，然后马上补一句：当然，我们不会。

And so many people that I talk to and I do a lot of work with CEOs or very senior executives, people much more established in their life and careers, refuse to use the phrase when we fail or when I fail, and will only talk about if we fail and are then very quick to say, but, of course, we won't.

他们觉得自己会是少数成功的人，却从不真正逼自己、逼团队去想：也许提前规划失败，反而是件挺健康的事。

We will be in the minority who succeeds, but don't do enough to really push themselves, push the team to say, maybe it will be quite healthy to plan for failure.

我们失败的时候会发生什么？

What happens when we fail?

假设我们会失败，这样你就能提前告诉自己：先原谅自己。

And assuming that we will both lets you in advance say, well, I'm gonna forgive myself first when that happens.

然后我会做两件事。

But then I'm gonna do two things.

第一件事，我会宣布重新开始。

The first is I'm gonna declare a fresh start.

你可能听说过‘重新开始效应’，就是某些特定的时间点，比如生日、新年、星期一，特别能激励我们，让我们觉得现在是培养新习惯的起点。

And you might know the fresh start effect, which is that certain periods of time, your birthday, New Year, a Monday, can be very motivating for us in terms of declaring that now is the beginning of a new habit.

当我们有了重新开始的机会，似乎更容易取得成功。

We just seem to be a little bit more successful when we have had a fresh start.

我喜欢这门科学和心理学的地方在于，明天、下一小时、甚至下半小时，任何时刻都可以成为新的起点，你越能对自己说：我随时都有机会重新开始，就越好。

The thing that I love about this science and psychology is anything can be a fresh start tomorrow, the next hour, the next half hour, the more that you can say to yourself, I have the opportunity to begin again at any possible moment.

比如，如果你一整天都没按计划健康地过，就觉得今天彻底完了。

And so if, for example, you have not started the day as healthily as you want and you're like, well, today is shot.

那我干脆把整个蛋糕都吃了。

I might as well eat a whole cake.

你也可以这么说，下午两点就是一个新的开始。

You could also say, 2PM is a fresh start.

没人会在意。

Nobody cares.

根本没什么规矩。

There are no rules.

选个时间吧。

Pick a time.

从一个新的开始做起。

Begin with a begin with a fresh start.

第二点是，别总想着我们‘必须’做什么、规则是什么、别人有什么期待，不如换个角度，把目标定成我们对自己有什么期待，这样反而更有建设性。

The second is instead of talking about what we have to do or what the rules or requirements are or what we think other people expect others, it could be really constructive to instead frame our goals in terms of expectations that we have of ourselves.

我对自己有什么期待？

What expectation do I have of myself?

所以我希望自己是个能早起、充满干劲去锻炼的人。

So I might have an expectation that I am a person who is able and excited to get up early and exercise.

我也希望自己是个看到别人需要帮助时会伸出援手的人，善良、慷慨、有耐心。

I might have an expectation that I am a person who gives help to other people when I can see that they need it, that I am kind or generous or a patient.

你看，这一切其实就是在说：这些是我希望拥有的品质，我希望自己能更多地体现它们，然后主动寻找机会去实践。

And you see, all of that is part of saying, here's a set of qualities that I hope I have that I would like to see more of in myself, and I'm gonna look for opportunities to practice them.

我会主动找机会证明，自己的行为和我想成为的样子是一致的。

I'm gonna look for opportunities to demonstrate that that's consistent with how I would like to see myself.

当我们失败时——每个人都会失败——只要重新宣布一个起点，并提醒自己对自己的期待，下一次就更有可能成功。

So when we fail, which all of us will, declaring a fresh start and then reminding ourselves what expectations we have of ourselves makes us much more likely to be successful the next time.

我觉得人们总担心这样想会招来霉运，或者变成自我实现的预言。

And I think people think that it's jinxing it or it's a it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

但你想啊，与其让预言成真，让你能重新找回节奏，难道不比彻底失控强吗？

But it's like, well, wouldn't you rather the prophecy then actually was able to get back on track?

要是连个‘如果……就……’的计划都没有，那才真的会彻底偏离轨道。

Like, then it just be completely derailed by not having an if then plan.

是的

Yeah.

回避去想这件事，本身反而成了一种自我实现的预言。

It's almost refusing to think about it is itself kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.

我说得对，你可以选择一个预言，也可以选择一个计划。

And I'd say exactly, you can have a prophecy or you can have a plan.

这两者你只能选一个。

You can't have both of those.

我们很清楚，走计划这条路的成功率远高于走预言这条路。

And what we know for sure is that the plan path succeeds much more often than the prophecy path.

天哪。

Oh my god.

我太喜欢这句话了。

I love that.

这话说得太棒了。

That's an amazing quote.

这太棒了。

That is so good.

印在T恤上吧。

Put it on a t shirt.

我知道。

I know.

我都在想，出周边？

I'm like, merch?

而且

And

它很难捉摸，你没法订购，没法借来，也不能光靠愿望让它出现，但现在，有一种全新而令人兴奋的方式，能帮你开启通往更快乐生活的人生旅程。

also elusive you can't order it you can't borrow it or simply hope it into life but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.

《快乐入门》是一档由我主持的新播客，我会与世界各地最有趣的人展开深度对话——包括娱乐传奇、体育偶像、健康专家，还有普通普通人，他们会分享自己如何发现、接纳并体验快乐，我也会分享一些自己关于追求更平衡、更和谐生活的见解和建议。如果你渴望灵感、支持和实用工具，来最大化你的快乐，那就一定要收听这档真诚、鼓舞人心又动人的对话节目。分手后的快乐、空巢老人的快乐、失去后的快乐、作为照护者的快乐……这档新播客都会谈到。欢迎在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客，或你常用的任何播客平台收听《快乐入门》。

Joy one zero one it's a new podcast hosted by me how to copy together guys will have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people entertainment legends sports icons wellness experts and everyday people will share how they find allow and experience joy and offer some of my own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced and harmonious life if you're craving inspiration support and useful tools to maximize your joy tune into these candid uplifting and moving on air chats joy after a breakup joy is an empty nester joy after a loss joy as a caretaker this new podcast will speak to you listen to joy one zero one on the I iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

你好，我是克里斯·费尔班克斯。

Hi, I'm Chris Fairbanks

我是凯伦·科戈拉夫，我们主持一档叫《你需要搭车吗？》的移动喜剧播客，专门解答一个问题：当我们在洛杉矶狂野的街道上开车载着喜剧朋友时，会发出什么样的声音。

and I'm Karen Kogariff we host do you need a ride the mobile comedy podcast that answers the question what does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends around the wild streets of Los Angeles.

对。

Yes.

每周我们都会接上一位超级好笑的嘉宾，也许顺便办点琐事，一起开怀大笑，聊聊我们的梦想。

Every week, we pick up a hilarious guest, maybe run some errands, share some laughs, and our dreams.

就像玛莎·凯利分享她职业转型经历那次一样。

Like when Martha Kelly shared her career pivot.

我想成为那些孩子上了大学、决定为自己而活的离异妈妈的意见领袖。

I wanna become a influencer of divorced moms whose kids have gone off to college who have decided they're gonna start living life for themselves.

或者是巴伦·冯被壮丽景色吸引走神的那次。

Or the time Baron Von got distracted by the majestic scenery.

结果路边竟然赫然出现了一只该死的鹿。

Then there's a freaking deer right there in the side of the road.

天哪，真是吓死人。

Oh, holy shit.

真糟。

Shit.

吃路边的草，真是服了。

Eating freaking road grass.

路啊，我真希望你刚才说的是玻璃。

Road I wish you said glass.

新节目每周一在Exactly Right网络平台上线。

New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.

可以在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客，或者你常用的播客平台收听《你需要搭车吗？》。

Listen to do you need a ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

谢谢。

Thank you.

不客气。

You're welcome.

大家都把我当成橄榄球运动员，但首先，我是个普通人。

Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human.

从出生那天起，我就一直在学着怎么面对问题、犯错、人际关系和情绪。

Every single day, I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born.

到现在，我还有好多疑问。

And I still have so many questions.

我们从哪儿来？

Where do we come from?

人死后会怎样？

What happens after death?

遇到网络抵制，你怎么应对？C罗还是梅西？

How do you deal with cancellation, Cristiano or Messi?

外星人真的存在吗？

Do aliens exist?

爱到底是什么？

What is love?

皇家马德里还是巴塞罗那？

Real Madrid or Barca.

从日常平凡，到深刻而非凡。

From everyday and ordinary to the deep and extraordinary.

这可不是一档普通的播客。

This isn't a normal podcast.

这里的一切都是即兴的、真实的、发自内心的。

Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine.

这档播客就像和你最亲近的朋友深聊，把脆弱的一面都摊开来说。

This podcast is like a deep talk with your closest friends where vulnerability comes out.

阴谋论会被拿出来讨论，目标和人生教训也会聊，我们就是为连接而存在。

Conspiracy theories end up on the table, and goals and lessons are We are here to connect.

我是哈维尔·克塞皮托·埃尔南德斯，和iHeartRadio一起，我们要把平凡变得非凡。

I'm Javier Xperito Hernandez, and together with iHeartRadio, we're going to make the ordinary extraordinary.

别走开。

Stay close.

在iHeartRadio、苹果播客，或者你常用的任何平台，收听《学习做真人》。

Listen to learning to be human on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

你跟我说过，别放弃，因为你让我为你说唱过。

You said to me, yo, you know, keep at it because you let me rap for you.

对我们所有人来说，那真是奇妙的时刻。

It was magical for all of us.

他们说：‘哎，我们做到了。’

They go, ah, we made it.

我们做到了。

We made it.

是的。

Yeah.

我当时就想：‘我们’？

I'm like, we?

你知道的，我心里嘀咕：我认识这些人，但你又是谁？

You know, I'm like, I know these guys, but who are you?

我是MC Jin，这是最后一个，但同样重要。

I'm MC Jin, and this is last but not least.

我会和来自各行各业的嘉宾聊聊，幽默在面对困境时的力量。

I'll be chatting with guests from all walks of life about the power of humor when it comes to facing difficult times.

比如Rough Riders的联合创始人达伦·D·迪恩。

Like the co founder of Rough Riders, Darren D Dean.

你还记得我们小时候就见过面吗？

Talking about as a kid, do you remember that we met even way before that?

让我想想，你是不是当时走到门口了？

Let me think, did you walk up to the gate?

对，那就是我，D。

That was me, D.

那是你？

That was you?

对，是我。

That was me.

那天我们得知你和整个团队在Hit Factory，任务就是让我走到门口，即兴说段饶舌，看看能不能混进录音棚。

The day we found out that you and the whole crew was at Hit Factory, the mission was to get me to go to the gate, start freestyling, and see if I could get in the studio.

我正在说唱，突然听见有人喊话。

I'm rapping, and then suddenly, I hear a voice.

喂，把门打开。

Hey, open the gate.

让他进来。

Let let him in.

大门缓缓地开了。

The gate slowly went.

所有人都在看着，看着我走进去，那一刻我这辈子都忘不了。

They all there watching this, and they watch me walk into there, and that is a moment that I will remember for the rest of my life.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客，或者你常用的播客平台收听最后一期，嘉宾是 MC Jin。

Listen to last but not least with MC Jin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

黑人音乐、美食和文化教会我们，自己正在变成什么样的人？

What did black music, food, and culture teach us about who we were becoming?

2016 年算是最后那个文化高度统一的年代了。

2016 was sort of that last era of monoculture

那时候，我们还是一起分享这些东西的。

where we still consumed things in community.

从碧昂丝到蕾哈娜，人人都想成为碧昂丝。

From Beyonce and Rihanna Everybody wanted to be Beyonce.

唉。

Ugh.

我觉得再也不会有第二个蕾哈娜了。

I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna.

关于灵魂食物、记忆、身份，还有黑人文化承载的故事。

To soul food, memory, identity, and the stories we carry through black culture.

在美洲，身为黑人吃饭意味着什么？

What does it mean to be black and eat in America?

我们这一代人懂得如何耕作土地，懂得如何与土地共处。

So we were this group of people who knew how to work the land, who knew how to live with the land.

我们能让土地发挥出它该有的样子。

We make it do what it do.

《为黑人女孩疗愈》正在汇聚当下塑造黑人生活的重要对话。

Therapy for black girls is bringing together the conversation shaping black life right now.

你永远别想让我为当一个黑人女孩、一个黑人美国女孩而感到羞愧。

You will never make me feel bad for being a black girl, for being a black American girl ever.

《为黑人女孩疗愈》把这一切都搬上了麦克风。

Therapy for black girls is bringing it all to the mic.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客，或者你常用的任何播客平台收听《为黑人女孩疗愈》。

Listen to therapy for black girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

在我们结束之前，赶紧来听听这个。

Get into this before we end up wrapping up.

我们该怎么应对那些拒绝改变的人？

How do we handle people who refuse to change?

我们知道已经聊了很多关于这种人际关系的问题。

So I know we've spoken a lot about this relational factor.

比如，你可能有父母就是不愿意改变。

You know, you're maybe you have parents who refuse to change.

你有个伴侣，就是不肯改变。

You have a partner who you refuses to change.

你那些朋友，其实和你一样，也在纵容这个问题。

You have friends who are enabling a problem just as much as you are probably enabling them as well.

那我们该怎么办？

What do we do?

要不要直接指出他们的行为？

Do we call out their behavior?

什么时候该干脆决定，离开这种环境算了？

When do we just decide that maybe we need to just not be in that situation?

这中间的分寸很难把握。

It's a fine line.

你对正在经历这种情况的人有什么建议吗？

Do you have any advice for people who are dealing with that?

总想着别人得改，这种想法特别容易让人上瘾。

It is so seductive to think a lot about how other people need to change.