第23集：电动汽车充电站

电动汽车充电站会来到你所在的城市吗？各位播客听众大家好。这里是《新能源专家》节目，为您提供密苏里州及更广泛地区能源政策与政治的所有资讯。我是密苏里新能源组织的执行董事詹姆斯·欧文，我们是一个501(c)(3)非营利组织，致力于可再生能源和能效政策。在演播室里还有我们的法律顾问蒂姆·奥皮茨。

Will EV charging stations be coming to a town near you? Hello out there in podcast world. This is Renew Gurus, your source for all things energy policy and politics in Missouri and beyond. I'm executive director James Owen of Renew Missouri, a five zero one c three committed to renewable energy and energy efficiency policy. Here in the Renew Missouri studios is counsel Tim Opitz.

蒂姆，你好。

Tim, hello.

各位播客听众大家好。或者说各位听众。

Hello out there in podcast land. Or world.

或者说各位听众。是的。感谢收听。我们还有研究助理艾米丽·皮安泰克。

Or world. Yeah. Thanks for listening. We also have Emily Piantec, our research clerk.

你好，詹姆斯。

Hi, James.

嗨。我知道你不喜欢我念你姓氏的方式。

Hi. I know you don't like how I say your last name.

这大概是你念得最接近正确发音的一次了。

That's, I think, the the closest you've gotten.

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

但我们会接受的。

But we'll take it.

那你为什么不说呢？Piantec。Piantec。这和我说的没什么不同啊。

Well, why don't you say it? Piantec. Piantec. What that wasn't any different than what I said.

这是...这是...

It's it's

是啊，都...

all Yeah.

一切都很好。

It's all good.

把它说清楚

Enunciate it

一点点。我发音太夸张了吗？是的。我只是想帮忙。

a little. Do I enunciate it too much? Yeah. I'm trying to be helpful.

我们就说庞蒂克吧。

We'll just say Pontiac.

庞蒂克。艾米丽·庞蒂克？好吧。

Pontiac. Emily Pontiac? Okay.

是二。

It's two.

现在由幕后魔法师马特·帕特森来主持。你好。你好。好的。

And running the board. The man behind the magic, Matt Patterson. Hello. Hello. Okay.

上周我们本该录播客的。但忙着准备上周五举行的年终能源法继续法律教育课程，这个课程非常成功。如果想要课程资料，我们刚编辑好上传到YouTube了。捐款后我们会发链接给你。这就是我们上周在忙的事。

So we we were supposed to be doing a podcast last week. We were very busy with the end of the year energy law CLE that we did last Friday, which is very successful. If you want to obtain a copy of that, we just edited it and put it on YouTube. So we'll send you a link for a donation. So that's something we were working on last week.

上次没来得及讨论。今年夏天我们想重点看看2019年密苏里州立法会议中值得关注的议案，做个进展回顾和要点总结——包括这些法案的意义和未来影响。上次安德鲁来讨论过低收入住房税收抵免及改革方案。今天我们要聊的是电动汽车充电站管辖权问题。选这个话题是因为我特别兴奋。

We did not get to this. One thing that we're wanting to do this summer was look at pieces of legislation that were of note in the '2 thousand '19 legislative session here in Missouri and kind of giving an update and a recap about what happened, why it matters, and what it means moving forward. And last time we did this, Andrew was here talking about the low income low income housing tax credit and the reforms that were proposed on that. Today, we're gonna be talking about electric vehicle charging station jurisdiction. And the reason we're gonna talk about that because I'm really excited about it.

这就是我笑得特别夸张的原因，我的舞台式笑声。没关系。今年议会通过了一项法案，众议院第355号法案，基本上修改了一些定义，使得农村电力合作社、市政机构和私人个体更容易建设电动汽车充电站。

That's why I laughed extra hard. My stage laugh. Is okay. So a bill passed this year in the session. It was house bill three fifty five that basically changed the definition for certain things that would allow EV charging stations to give to make it easier for rural electric cooperatives and municipalities and private individuals easier access to being able to build these things.

我们该从这个问题开始探讨，因为我们想逆向思考一下：为什么我们一开始需要这项法律？这正是我们想讨论的，因为该法案已在众议院通过，参议院也通过了，现在正等待州长帕森签署或否决，他必须在7月14日前做出决定。所以，蒂姆，关于电动汽车充电站——

And the question that we should start because we wanna work backwards from this a little bit is, why did we need this law to begin with? And so that's what we kinda wanna talk about because that bill did pass house. It passed the senate. It is now awaiting governor Parson's signature or veto, and he has until July 14 to do that. So, Tim, electric vehicle charging stations.

是好事还是坏事？你怎么看？

Good? Bad? What do you think?

我...我觉得是好事。那就好。真是松了一口气。是好事，否则我可能没法在这儿工作了。

I I think they're good. Okay. Which is good. What a relief. Good because otherwise, I might not work here.

好吧。

Alright.

不过，我的意思是，我们在这个问题上立场并非始终一致。为了让听众了解，我们确实对此有所思考。但我想说的是，我们讨论密苏里州的电动汽车充电站其实是相当近期的事，对吧？

Although, I mean, it's not as though we've always had the same position on this. I mean, we've had we've had and just to kind of let people know, we we've we've thought about this a little bit. But, I mean, can I talk about, like it's been pretty recent that we've been talking about electric vehicle charging stations in Missouri? Right?

没错。我认为密苏里州关于电动汽车充电站的讨论真正始于2015年，当时堪萨斯城电力与照明公司——现在叫Evergy或即将更名为Evergy。

Right. I'd say the discussion on electric vehicle charging station in Missouri really began in 2015 when Kansas City Power and Light, now Evergy or soon to be Evergy.

我认为他们还在处理这件事。

I think they're still working on it.

还在进行中。因为他们所有的邮箱地址仍然显示KCP和L。于是他们决定要为顾客和社区提供电动车充电服务，在堪萨斯城都会区建设约一千个充电站。这包括密苏里州和堪萨斯州两边。

Still working on it. Because all of their email addresses say KCP and L still. Well, so they decided they were gonna go out and to give their customers and the community this service of electric vehicle charging, construct about a thousand charging stations in the Kansas City Metro Area. So that's on Missouri and Kansas side.

是的。因为KCP现在为两个州提供服务。没错。而且堪萨斯州约翰逊县大约有一百万人，顺便说下怀恩多特县是县营公用事业，所以他们其实不覆盖那里。但约翰逊县有很多我们所谓的通勤者。

Yeah. Because KCP now provides service to both states. That's right. And because you've got about, what, a million people in Johnson County, Kansas, which, by the way, Wyandotte County is I think it's a county ran unit utility, so they don't actually cover that. But there's quite a few people in Johnson County, commuters as we call them.

而且在约翰逊县工作的人也不多。所以这种情况在约翰逊县和密苏里州堪萨斯城都存在。对吧？

And then not a lot of people work over Johnson County too. So you have that on both Johnson County and Kansas City, Missouri. Right?

没错。是的。所以

That's right. Yeah. And so

我对堪萨斯州的地理非常熟悉。

I'm very good with my Kansas geography.

于是他们推进并安装了这些设施。密苏里州的费率制定流程通常是公用事业公司先投资，然后提交费率申请。如果投资用于服务，他们就能将其纳入费率并收回资金。所以他们提交了费率申请。

So they went ahead and put those in. And so the way that rate making works in Missouri is usually the utility has to make an investment, and then they file a rate case. And if that investment is in service, they get to build it in rates and recover money for that. Right. So they filed their rate case.

2016年。2016年。对。

In 2016. In 2016. Right.

他们试图恢复他们所谓的清洁充电网络。对。这颇具争议。是的。因为当时很多人并不真正理解发生了什么，也不明白这将如何使客户受益。

And they seek recovery of they call it their clean charge network. Right. It was pretty controversial Yeah. Because not a lot of people really understood what was going on or how this would benefit customers.

是的。因为，我的意思是，大约在同一时间，KCP和L提交了费率案例，公共服务委员会举办了一个关于电动汽车充电站的研讨会或某种形式的演示。你还记得吗？我们当时都在公共委员会。

Yeah. Because, I mean, about the same time the KCP and L filed the rate case, the Public Service Commission had a workshop or some sort of presentation on EV charging stations. You remember this? We were both at public council at the time.

我记得他们那时确实举办过一次，我认为部分原因是KCPL的申请。是的。所以实际上是KCPL推动了这件事。是的。通过他们发起这项行动的倡议。

I believe they had one around that time, and I think it was partially driven by the filing Yeah. Of KCPL. So really KCPL got things kicked off Yeah. With their initiative to do this.

好的。所以他们基本上是在...好的。我知道我们之前稍微讨论过这个，但当公用事业公司带着费率案例来的时候，我的意思是，他们是为了已经建设并正在使用的东西而来，他们只是对公共服务委员会说，我们建了这个，我们在使用它，现在我们希望纳税人偿还我们的投入。

Okay. So they okay. So they come in basically when okay. So and I know we've talked about this a little bit before, but when utility companies come in with a right case, I mean, they are coming in for things they I mean, they're supposed to come in for things they've already built, things they're already using, and they just say to the Public Service Commission, Public Service Commission, we built this. We're using it, and now we want the rate payers to pay us back for what we did.

没错。是的。所以他们用这些电动汽车充电站就是这么做的。

That's right. Yeah. So they did that with these EV charging stations.

他们确实这么做了。他们的目标，他们说，首先我们想消除里程焦虑。是的。这样做将增加堪萨斯城地区电动汽车的普及率。这将支持那些没有专用家用充电桩的电动汽车司机。

They did that. And so their goals, they said, well, first we wanna eliminate range anxiety. Yeah. And doing that will increase EV adoption in the Kansas City area. It's going to support drivers of EVs that don't have dedicated home charging.

是的。你知道，那些可能住在公寓楼之类地方的人。而且这将支持长途旅行。所以他们这么做确实是有原因的。

Yeah. You know, people that might live in apartment complexes or something of that nature. And it'll enable long distance travel. So that's really why they did that.

现在你提到了里程焦虑。艾米丽，我们刚才私下聊过。你经历过里程焦虑，对吧？

Now range anxiety is something you mentioned. Emily, we were talking a little off mic. You've had experience with range anxiety, have you not?

我有过。

I have.

跟我们说说。

Tell us about it.

虽然我自己没有电动车，但我朋友有。我们计划去阿肯色州北部自驾游时，沿途充电站的位置考虑实际上决定了我们选择的行车路线。

Unfortunately don't have an electric vehicle, but a friend of mine does. And we were planning a road trip to Northern Arkansas. And then the consideration of where we would stop to charge the car on the way kinda defined how we the route that we were gonna take to our destination.

那去阿肯色州北部要开多久？大概多少小时？

So when you're going to Northern Arkansas, how many hours are you talking about? How long was that gonna take?

嗯，我记得单程大约要开八小时，而且当时还打算...

Well, I think it was about eight an eight hour drive, and then there was gonna be

到北阿肯色州要八小时？

Eight hours to Northern Arkansas?

我想是的。对。这是去年二月的事了。有段时间了。不过后来让旅程变得更长

I think so. Yeah. This was last February. It was a while. But then making the trip longer

是坐马车吗？有篷马车。对。

was taking a buggy? Covered wagon. Yeah.

我们本来打算开特斯拉去的。所以没错。我想他们应该已经拿到通行证了。

We were just gonna take a Tesla. So yeah. I think they would've gotten their pass.

史密斯堡。对。好吧。那可能要八小时。

Fort Smith. Yeah. So okay. That could be eight hours.

没关系。从史密斯堡出发三小时

It's okay. Three hours from Fort Smith

到斯普林菲尔德。抱歉。我不是要质疑什么的。

to Springfield. Sorry. I didn't mean to, like, question.

是的，就是我

Yeah. I was the one

策划这次公路旅行的人。

planning the road trip.

但回到里程焦虑的话题。是的。拜托。我们得在乔普林停车充电，大概要花两小时。所以我们正试着安排晚餐时间

But to get back to the range anxiety. Yeah. Please. We were gonna have to stop in Joplin to charge the car, it was gonna take about two hours. And so we were trying to plan dinner around

那八小时包括充电的两小时吗？不包括。所以总共要十小时？

Was that eight hours including the two hours for the charging? No. So it would take ten hours then?

是的。那会是很漫长的一天。

Yeah. It would have been a much longer day.

天啊。是啊。而且你只能在密苏里州哥伦比亚和史密斯堡之间找到这一个充电站。史密斯堡。

Oh my goodness. Yeah. And the only EV charging station you could find between Columbia, Missouri and Fort Smith. Fort Smith.

本来要

Was gonna

说的是斯科特堡，位于堪萨斯州。阿肯色州的史密斯堡则在乔普林市。

say Fort Scott. That's in Kansas. Fort Smith, Arkansas was in Joplin.

当时。是的。

At the time. Yeah.

当时。

At the time.

然后我没有车，但车主在用一款应用查找所有充电站的位置。我不想

And then I didn't have the car, but the owner was using an app to figure out where all the charging stations were. I don't wanna

这就是所谓的里程焦虑？是的。好的。谢谢你解释。

And that's range anxiety? Yes. Okay. Thank you for that.

你担心因为无法充电而到不了目的地

You're worried that won't be able to get where you're going because you can't

不同于我们每次做播客时我有的那种焦虑，那只是普通的焦虑。所以

As opposed to the anxiety I have every time we do one of these podcasts, which is just regular anxiety. So

或者是舱体焦虑。

Or pod anxiety.

你是说舱体焦虑吗？舱体焦虑。我刚才听到你那么说了一下。好吧。

Did you say pod anxiety? Pod anxiety. I was just what you said there for a second. Alright.

所以，除了续航焦虑之外，还有几个其他障碍

So yeah. So, yeah, in addition to in addition to range anxiety, there's a couple other barriers that you

可以采纳。

can adopt.

采纳。一是客户对电动汽车工作原理的认知和理解不足，以及它们的性能表现。另一个是对初始成本及后续燃料或电力成本认知的缺乏。

Adoption. One is a lack of customer awareness and understanding of how EVs work Yeah. And how they can perform. Another is a lack of awareness about the initial cost and their subsequent fuel cost or electricity cost. Yeah.

然后还有，就是我们正在讨论的，缺乏足够且合适的充电基础设施。

And then there's, you know, I guess what we're talking about here, is a lack of sufficient and suitable charging infrastructure. Yeah.

不过还有另一个问题。这更多是法律和政策驱动的，而不仅仅是其他这些考虑因素。当然，所有这些其他因素也是政策驱动的。但问题是PSC与电动汽车充电站有什么关系。问题是他们是否应该从一开始就监管这些。

So and but there was also, like, another question. This is more legal and policy driven than about just these other considerations. Mean, all these other things are policy driven, of course. But there's a question about what the PSC had to do with EV charging stations. There was a question about whether they should be even regulating these in the first place.

难道不是吗？

Wasn't there?

没错。当时KCPL提交了这个费率案例，你知道的，这是对他们记录的一次非常彻底的审查，所以花了大约十一个月。与此同时，

Right. So at the time that KCPL had filed this rate case, which is, you know, a very thorough review of their their records, so it takes eleven months or so. In the meantime Also

这是个有争议的话题，不过那是另一期播客的内容了。在

a controversial subject, but that's another podcast. In the

与此同时，Amarin也想参与电动汽车充电业务。是的。他们提出了一个关于70号州际公路充电的试点提案，我记得是在哥伦比亚和圣路易斯之间。他们想要

meantime, Amarin also wanted to get in on the action of electric vehicle charging. Yeah. They put forward a pilot proposal for I 70 charging. I think it was between Columbia and Saint Louis. They wanted Right.

在那里拥有几个充电站。但是

To own a few stations there. But a

哥伦比亚和圣路易斯之间大部分是Ameren的服务区域。可以这么说吧？我的意思是，大部分都是。

lot of that is Ameren service territory between Columbia and Saint Louis. Safe to say? I mean, a lot of it is.

是的。我想有些区域...那些不属于合作社的，

Yeah. I think there's Yeah. What's not co op,

是的。

there's Yeah.

这里是Ameren服务。对，对，对。那大概和堪萨斯城电力与照明公司的案件是同一时期发生的。

Ameren service here. Right. Right. Right. So that kind of went along the same time that the Kansas City Power and Light case was going on.

嗯哼。在这些案例中，委员会驳回了双方诉求并表示，看吧，这些充电站并不符合密苏里州公共服务委员会法律定义的发电厂性质。它们销售的不是电力，而是这种不受监管的所谓充电服务。对吧。

Uh-huh. And in those cases, the commission rejected both of them and said, look, these charging stations are not electric plants as defined by Missouri Public Service Commission law. The product is not selling electricity. The project product is this unregulated quote unquote charging service. Right.

而充电服务并非天然垄断行业，公共服务委员会没有理由也不需要对其进行监管。

And charging service is not something that's a natural monopoly that the Public Service Commission should or needs to regulate.

没错。因为...我觉得这其实引出了一个关于公共服务委员会根本职责的有趣问题。理论上他们的职责是服务——毕竟公用事业不存在自然竞争，你不可能真正实现公用事业的市场化竞争。

Right. Because yeah. And I think that's something that's interesting that kinda goes to the ultimate question of the Public Service Commission. Mean, their job is to serve well, I mean, this is a theory anyway, because utilities don't have natural competition. I mean, because you can't necessarily have competitive utilities.

这其实是个更复杂的问题。但核心观点是：这种监管机制本质上是对垄断的制衡，某种程度上是在模拟市场竞争。部分论点认为电动汽车充电站完全可由私营机构运营，没必要通过监管公用事业公司来介入——这个领域本就应该形成加油站、酒店等多元主体共同竞争的市场格局。

I mean, that's a more that's a loaded question. But I mean, basically, the answer the idea is this regulation serves as a check to that. And they're supposed it's kind of supposed to be mimicking competition. And part of the argument was that EV charging stations are something that private entities could do. There was no point in trying to say, like, oh, we should regulate utility companies from doing this because there should be a marketplace, it's put, where they do compete with gas stations, with hotels, with whoever to you know serve this market.

确实，竞争是激励人们行动的最佳方式。

Right, mean competition is a great way to incent people to do things.

是啊，我们这儿有些人可是资本家，你猜猜是谁。不，不。不过确实如此。

Yeah, we're capitalists here, some of us. You can guess which ones. No. No. But yeah.

挺刻薄的，但那就是人们争论的焦点。对，而且那不仅仅是...

So mean, but that was that was an argument that people had Yeah. And it wasn't and wasn't

而且不仅仅是，你知道的，办公室公共顾问才支持那种观点。

and it wasn't just, you know, office public counsel that espoused that.

那就是我们

Which is who we were

就是那些人

That's who

我们就是。

we were.

那时候。在那之前

At the time. Before at

那时候。在我被解雇之前。然后在我把你从他们那里挖来之前。抱歉，各位。

the time. Before I got fired. And then before I poached you from them. Sorry, everybody.

是啊。一段回忆之旅。

Yeah. A trip down memory lane.

哦，我知道。都是美好的回忆。

Oh, I know. It's great memories.

没错。所以Ameren没有对委员会的决定提出上诉对吧。但KCP和L上诉了。

Yeah. So so Ameren didn't appeal their the decision by the commission Right. But KCP and L did.

对。因为好吧。这很重要，因为KCP和L在2017年2月有两到三周费率的案子。这类案子通常不会开庭审理，但这个案子却开庭了。

Yeah. Because okay. So this is important because KCP and L in February 2017 has this two to three week long rate case. Those things don't normally go to trial. They don't usually go to hearing, but this one did.

结果他们说，哦，你们不会得到这些电动车充电站的报销。

And the result was they said, oh, you're not gonna get reimbursed for these EV charging stations.

对。这个案子里的决定挺有意思的，至少对纳税人的影响是这样，因为由于这些充电站涉及的税收抵免机制，拒绝让他们回收成本。实际上导致费率比原本可能的情况更高。对吧。他们要是包括...唉，算了。

Right. Which it was kind of an interesting decision in that case, at least the impact on ratepayers because by denying them to recover this due to the mechanisms of tax credits that were involved with these charging stations. Yeah. It actually made rates higher than they would have been had Right. They included Oh, well.

至少短期内是这样。

At least in the short term.

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

总之，连同其他几个问题，KCP和L公司上诉了这个案子。是的。公共服务委员会的申诉会提交至西部地方法院。在堪萨斯城。所以他们进行了案情摘要和辩论。

So anyway, so so that along with a few other issues, KCP and L appealed the case. Yeah. Which Public Service Commission appeals go to the Western District Court. In Kansas City. So they had briefing and argument.

最终，法院表示，PSC（公共服务委员会），你们在做什么？明白吗？这显然是发电厂。他们当然不是在销售充电服务。你只是插上汽车从中获取电力，如果这属于受监管的活动。

And ultimately, the court said, PSC, what are you doing? You know? Of course, this is electric plant. Of course, they're not selling a charging service. You're plugging in a car and you're getting electricity from it, you know, if this is a regulated activity.

是的。因为我读到的一些类比提到，比如，如果你有一辆房车，开到房车营地插上电获取电力，他们并不是...那不是发电厂...等等，我把这个类比搞混了。

Yeah. Because I think some of the analogies I've read is they talk about, like, well, if you have an RV and you go to an RV park and you plug it in and you get power from that, you're not they're not that's an electric plant or that I mean, wait a minute. I screwed that analogy up.

好吧，看看我的耳朵碗。

Alright. Look at I ear bowl.

对。我...我在说屠夫的手臂。我知道。抱歉。这是《 Tommy Boy》里的梗，以防有些千禧一代听众不知道。

Yeah. I I'm talking about the butcher's arm. I know. Sorry. That's from Tommy Boy in case some of you millennials are listening.

好吧。但基本上，他们是在说，没错，他们确实提供了这种权力，而这应该是你们能够监管的。我们回头再讨论这一点。

So okay. But, basically, they're saying, like, yes, of course, they are providing this power and it's something that you should be able to regulate. Let's go back to that.

是的，法院确实那么说了。而且，法院某种程度上——我们之前也讨论过——他们对法规进行了相当严格的解读。他们说，PSD（预防重大恶化），这些就是字面意思。

Yeah. The the court said that. Well, and the court kind of and you and I have talked about this. They applied a pretty strict reading of the statute. They said, PSD, these are what the words say.

你不能过度解读。基本上必须按照字面意思来执行。

You can't read into them. You basically have to apply them as they're written.

是的。通常来说，稍微深入一点上诉法的层面，当你讨论法规和立法机关写的内容时，他们基本上是在说，你需要看字面意思。如果某处没有定义，你需要明白，你不能随意添加词语。你得看着它说，显然立法机关知道他们在做什么。

Yeah. Usually I mean, so basically, to get a little bit into appellate law here is when you're talking about statutes and you're talking about what the legislature has has written. I mean, they're basically saying, like, you need to look at the plain language. You need I mean, if it's not defined somewhere, you need to understand, like, you know, you can't add words to this. You gotta look at it and say, well, obviously, the legislature knew what they were doing.

你知道，这是上诉法院做出的假设，你不能在此基础上添加内容。你的解释不应超出语言本身所能传达的含义。

You know, that's the assumption you make as an appellate court and that you can't add to that. You shouldn't be able to interpret it any more than what you can take from the language.

没错。

Right.

所以他们表示，好吧，你不能随意添加词语。这基本上就是上诉法院的立场。

So they said, okay. Well, you can't you're adding words to this. It's basically what the court of appeals said.

是的，上诉法院是这么说的。所以，我想程序上他们是将案件发回委员会重审。对吧。他们说委员会在法律上搞错了。

Yeah. The court of appeals said that. And so, I guess, the process is they remanded it back to the commission. Right. They said, commission, you got it wrong in the law.

那么评估这个案子吧。继续推进。

So evaluate this case Yeah. Going forward.

好的。是的。我是说因为这类案件通常都是这样。比如，在大多数情况下，上诉案件很难胜诉。这非常困难。

Okay. Yeah. So I mean because that's usually what happens with these cases. Like, if well, in most cases, I mean, it's hard to win a case of an appeal. That's very tough to do.

首先我们这么说吧。但如果你真的胜诉并获得发回重审，这意味着案件会回到原决策机构，他们必须按照法院的指示重新审理，并在指导下完成。

Let's just say that, first of all. But when you if you do win and you get a remand, that means that it goes back to who made the decision, and, basically, they have to redo it understanding what the court told them, and they have to do it under that guidance.

对。

Right.

他们确实这么做了。但还发生了别的事，因为公共服务委员会的工作人员研究了这个问题，基本上得出了结论。我要明确一点，这个结论没有书面记录，你找不到依据。

And so they did. But something else happened because the Public Service Commission staff looked at this looked at this, and they basically came to the conclusion. And I I want this to be clear. This wasn't written down somewhere. You can't go find this.

但我猜公共服务委员会的工作人员在告诉人们，他们认为这个法院案例意味着我们必须监管并批准州内建设的每个电动汽车充电站，包括酒店想建的充电站，或是餐厅——比如艾米丽你本来要和朋友去的那家餐厅。

I But guess the Public Service Commission staff is telling people that we believe this court case means we have to regulate and approve every EV charging station built in the state, which includes if you're a hotel and you wanna build wanna put an AV charging station or a restaurant, perhaps the restaurant, Emily, that you were going to stop at with your friend.

是啊。也许吧。我也不知道。

Yeah. Maybe. I don't know.

也许吧。我不知道。或者，更重要的是对于这次讨论和法规而言，市政公用事业和农村电力合作社。那么，蒂姆，市政公用事业和农村电力合作社是由PSC监管的吗？

Maybe. I don't know. Or or more importantly to this discussion and getting to the statute, municipal utilities and rural electric cooperatives. Now, Tim, municipal utilities and rural electric cooperatives regulated by the PSC or no?

不是。我是说，嗯，真正的答案是这很复杂，因为存在地域性。当然，有地域协议等等需要批准。但在费率设定、服务区域这类事情上，它们不受监管。市政公用事业属于第91章，合作社属于第394章。

No. I mean, so well, so the the real answer is it's complicated because there's territorial Of course, it's territorial agreements, etcetera, that should be approved. But for rate setting, for service areas, that sort of thing, they're not regulated. Unis are chapter 91. Coops are chapter three ninety four.

艾米丽，我能问你个问题吗？

Emily, can I ask you a question?

好啊。你有没有注意到，如果有什么事情

Yeah. Have you noticed that if there's anything

是我们在这里做的不复杂的吗？

we do that isn't complicated around here?

没有。就连公用事业或电力相关的缩写都很复杂。

No. Even the utility or electricity related acronyms are complicated.

我们称之为TLA。

The TLA as we call them.

是啊。

Yeah.

三字母缩略词。我每次有机会都要讲这个笑话。好吧。所以我想先把这个放一边，因为我们非常

The three letter acronyms. I'm gonna I'm gonna tell that joke every chance I get. Yeah. Okay. So I just wanna have that aside because we're very

所以当时因为西区那个案子，大家都很担心。是的。担心会产生意想不到的后果，说现在所有人都要受监管了。所有人都要向密苏里公共服务委员会提交申请，由委员会来核定费率。对吧。经过审计后，这确实会产生大量工作，但收益有限。对吧。在我看来是这样。

So there was this worry out there because of this Western District case Yeah. That there was gonna be unintended consequences that said, look, everybody has to be regulated now. Everybody has to come forward, make these filings before the Missouri Public Service Commission, get their rates set by the commission Right. After it's audited, it really would have created a lot of work and for limited benefit Right. In my view.

没错。因为说到底...好吧。因为州里的农村电力合作社基本不受监管。它们是非营利机构，共有43家。

Right. Because I mean, ultimately okay. Because, yeah, the rural electric cooperatives in the state are fairly unregulated. I mean, they they kind of they're they're not for profits. There's 43 of them.

它们实际上没有太多监管。当然要遵守联邦法规，但费率是由自己的董事会定的，管理规范也是董事会制定的。而投资者所有的公用事业公司则要受公共服务委员会指导。

They don't really have a lot of oversight. I mean, they obviously have some federal oversight. They have to abide by laws, but they don't but their board sets their rates. Their board sets their management practices. That's often with the Public Service Commission, the investor owned utilities are guided by that.

至于市政公用事业，大多数大城市都有专门的委员会来监督，但最终权力还是在市议会。当然。没错。选民们通过选举把这份职责赋予市议会。但你说得对。

The municipal utilities, you know, most cities have most big cities have like a board that oversees that utility, but mainly it's city council's ultimate authority. Well, course. Right. But yes, the voters in in, you know, instill to the city council with that with that work. But you're right.

归根结底是公众，就像公共服务委员会代表公众那样，某种程度上。他们会这么说。尽管他们声称是在平衡公众和公用事业之间的利益。但实际上他们连这点也没真正做到。

It's ultimately the public, just like the Public Service Commission represents the public, sort of. They'll say that. Although, what they say is they balance the interest of the public and the utility. So they don't even really do it either.

有何评论？我认为人们持有不同观点。

Comment? I think that people take different views.

对。用'对'这个词。对。注意你的措辞。我给你设了个陷阱。

Yeah. Use yeah. Yeah. Pick your words carefully. I've set a trap for you.

是啊。不，我我认为说到底，他们只是设定了合理的费率。

Yeah. No. I I think at at the end of the day, they set just in reasonable rates.

没错。因为我的意思是，显然他们

Yeah. So Because I mean, obviously them

需要赚取足够资金以维持服务运营。

to make enough money to be able to continue providing the service.

我是说，因为对吧。这些公用事业公司，它们是由投资者所有的。要发行股票。总得赚取一定利润。而通常，它们的回报率是由公共服务委员会设定的。

I mean, because yeah. The utilities, I mean, they're investor owned. They have sell stocks. I mean, they have to make some sort of profit. And that generally, their rate of return is set by the Public Service Commission.

这一切都基于他们建造和完成的事物。其中一部分是，好吧。所以我想最终的问题是，蒂姆，为什么公用事业公司承担建设电动汽车充电站这一角色很重要？嗯，我认为

And so that's all based on things they build and things they do. So part of that is, okay. So I guess the question is ultimately, Tim, why is it important that a utility company take on this role of building EV charging stations? Well, I think

简单的答案是，他们正是我所寻找的。在当今世界，他们是最有能力推动基础设施建设的角色，并能促进电动汽车购买者所需服务的开发。

the simple answer is that they're That's what I'm looking for. The best positioned actor in the world as it exists today to be able to encourage the build out of the infrastructure and in order to encourage the services that these people are going to need who buy electric vehicles.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们之所以能处于最佳位置，部分原因在于他们可以向所有客户收取费用。

And the reason that they're able to be best positioned for that is in part because they're able to charge rates to all of their customers.

没错。

Right.

并收回投资。比如说，如果我出去在70号州际公路旁建一个自己的充电站。

And recover their investment. So let's say if I go out and I were to build my own charging station and put it along I 70.

你会给你的充电站起什么名字，蒂姆？

What would you call your charging station, Tim?

我不知道。这个问题你来想想吧。

I don't know. You think about that one.

或者你为什么不把你的建议写在renewmo.org上呢？

Or why don't you write in your suggestions info at renewmo dot org?

我不打算这么做。好吧。我觉得更好的方式是鼓励我们的投资者拥有的公用事业公司去做这件事。是的。好吧。

I don't think I'm going to do that. Okay. I think it would be better I I would like to encourage our investor owned utilities to do that. Yeah. Okay.

但在这种假设情况下...是的。好吧。如果我真这么做，而且只有我这一座充电站，现在路上的电动车数量根本不够我卖出足够的电力来赚钱。

But in this hypothetical Yeah. Okay. If I were to do that and I have my one charging station, there's just not enough electric vehicles out there right now for me to be able to sell enough power to make money

靠这个。

on that.

对吧？如果我要投资几千美元建这个充电站。但公用事业公司可以批量安装，并把初期成本分摊给所有受监管的客户。是的。所以不只是充电站或加油站的使用者承担费用。

Right? If I have to invest thousands of dollars on this charging station. But the utility, they can put those in and they can spread those initial costs among all of their regulated customers. Yeah. So it's not just the person at the charging station or at the pump paying for it.

没错。所以最终...我是说这就是为什么公用事业公司需要考虑这个问题。但说到底，如果让每个农村电力合作社、每个市政公用事业、每个私营企业都参与，似乎确实会造成一些后勤上的麻烦。比如，如果你想开个'即加即走'充电站——这是我给你想的名字，因为你是开放式的而不是加油站那种坑道。

Right. And so but I mean ultimately right. So I mean that's why it's important for utilities to consider this. But I mean ultimately it did seem like it would cause a little bit of a logistical headache to have every rural electric cooperative, every municipal utility, every private party. Like, say, if you were wanting to open pump and go pits because that's what I thought I would name your EV charging station because you're open instead of go pits.

明白了吗？

Get it?

老兄，那个'价格竞猜'节目在哪？

Man, where's that price is right?

我应该把那段剪掉。不，你可以保留我的羞耻和尴尬。那锣声是什么？哦，对了。

I should edit that out. No. You can keep my shame and humiliation. What is the gong? Oh, yeah.

或者他们在杂耍表演中用的那个钩子。好吧，我刚才说到哪了？哦，对了。

Or that hook that they do with the vaudeville shows. So okay. So what was I saying? Oh, yeah.

所以我们不希望...不希望你们能这样做。有些人可能会对此有意见，说：'看，如果我没有电动车，为什么我要在我的电费账单里为它买单？'

So we don't want we don't want your can do this. And so some people may take issue with that and say, well, look, if I don't have an electric vehicle, why should I why should I pay for it in my rates?

那是我的经纪人打电话来说他

That was my agent calling to say he

要因为那个笑话解雇我。即使这在电费账单上只是微不足道的一笔钱。是的。我认为Ameren公司最近...他们推出了'充电先行'计划和商业解决方案计划。对吧。

was firing me for that joke. Even if it's an imperceptible amount on the utility bill. Yeah. And I think that Ameren in their recent they they came back with a charge ahead program and a business solutions program. Right.

他们在密苏里复兴组织提出的论点中表示，无论是长期还是短期来看，建设这些充电站——在必要范围内并能促进电动汽车普及——将带来更多电力销售。当电力公司售出更多电力时，计费单位自然增加。没错。因此他们的计量费率会...虽然可能不会下降，但增幅会趋于平缓。

And they made the the argument that we supported at Renew Missouri that in the long run and even in the short run, putting in these charging stations to the extent that it's necessary and that it will increase EV adoption, they're gonna sell more power. And when the utility sells more power, the billing units increase. Right. And so their volumetric rates should see Yeah. They may not go down, but they're gonna see a depressed increase.

好的。没错。我是说，如果电动汽车能广泛普及，所有客户都应该能从中受益。

Okay. Right. I mean, also So all customers should be better off if EVs are adopted widely.

对。因为这里面还涉及其他好处。就像我们在阿莫林公司案例中阐述的那样，我们讨论过这如何有助于促进可再生能源发展——某种程度上就像储能那样起到稳定使用的作用。我们认为这对每位客户都存在诸多益处。

Right. Because I mean, there are other benefits to that as well. I mean, that's like one of the things we articulated in Ameren's case. We talked about how we thought this would help encourage more renewable energy, that it kinda serves as like, you know, kind of helping like stabilize like storage and that sort of thing, stabilize use. I mean, we we there are a lot of benefits to having this out there to every customer in our opinion.

所以这是财务层面的。我们主要讨论政策以及可再生能源带来的财务和经济利益。但堪萨斯城电力公司几个月前做过关于其清洁充电网络的演示，他们提到了...没错...充电站带来的环境效益。

And and so that's financial. And then we mostly talk about policy and the financial benefits and economic benefits of renewable energy. But KCPL, they gave a presentation a few months ago talking about their clean charge network. And they talked about the environment environmental benefits that we've Right. Stations.

他们表示，根据估算，其充电站已避免了130万千克温室气体排放。这就是他们构想的方式——

They said in their charging station, they've avoided 1,300,000 kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions is what they estimate. And so the way that they vision that

艾米丽，你比我们懂行。这个数字算大吗？我对这类指标没什么概念。

Emily, you're like smarter than us. Is that a lot? I mean, because I don't know metrics.

是的。这个数量相当可观

Yeah. I mean, that's a fair amount

好的。所以他们说了，这相当于种植3.4万棵树并让它们生长十年。哇，这关乎环境。太棒了。

of Okay. So so they said Okay. They said that's like planting 34,000 trees and letting them grow for ten years. Wow, wow that's environment. That's awesome.

是的。除了费率支付者的利益，除了满足电动汽车用户的需求，还有环境效益。

Yeah. So in addition to rate payer benefits, in addition to serving a need of customers who have EV cars, there's environmental benefits.

是的。是的，我是Emily，

Yeah. Yeah, I Emily,

我可以补充一点。我认为在密苏里州，电动汽车还存在一个担忧，就是我们的一些投资者所有的公用事业公司目前仍严重依赖煤炭。但过去一年我们看到Ameren承诺或投入更多可再生能源。我们有几个风电项目计划在未来几年内上线。是的，诸如此类的事情。

can add to that. I think there has also been a concern with EVs in Missouri that some of our IOUs rely pretty heavily on coal even at this time. But over the past year we've seen Ameren pledge or commit to a lot more renewable energy. We've got wind projects that are slated to come online in the next couple of years Yeah. And things like that.

因此随着时间的推移，我们将持续向可再生能源转型。

So over time we're gonna exceed a continued transition to renewables.

是的。福特的电动汽车来源。是的。福特规模的Ameren历史上极度依赖煤炭。

Yeah. Ford's source for the EV. Yeah. Ford size Ameren has historically been enormously coal reliant.

是的。

Yes.

我是说，最初我们在内部讨论这个问题时，我的一些担忧和问题之一——这可能甚至早于你来到这里——就是，如果我们推广这个，是否在推动更多煤炭发电？最终我们认定事实并非如此，因为正如你所说，Ameren公司现在提出了一个相当雄心勃勃的风能建设计划。

And, I mean, one of the problems and concerns I had initially when we started talking about this internally, and I think this might have even predated you coming here, was, well, if we promote this, are we promoting more coal power? Ultimately, we decided that that is not what this is doing because now, yes, Ameren, as you said, put forward this pretty ambitious process for building more wind.

他们已经

They've got

获得了其中许多项目的批准，还有一些正在等待审批。我们正在处理那个案子。所以我们认为Ameren公司正朝着好的方向发展，当然他们总能做得更多。

approval for a lot of that. They've got some pending approval. We're working on that case. So we think Ameren's moving in a good direction. They can always do more.

而且KC B和L公司历史上看，当你观察堪萨斯州的风能发展时，他们在这方面也有相当不错的记录。

And and KC B and L historically, when you look at the wind in Kansas, they've got a pretty good track record on this too.

是的。他们的能源产出，我认为有些日子接近50%的发电量来自风能。而且

Yeah. Their energy output is, I think some days, it's bordering on 50% of their energy produced is wind. And and the

昨天的大新闻是，Empire Electric公司刚获批建设他们的风电场，这将成为他们业务的重要组成部分。但据我们所知，他们目前还没有提出任何电动汽车充电站的建设计划。

big news yesterday, Empire Electric just got approval for their wind farm, which is gonna be a huge part of what they do. But they have they don't have any EV charging stations that we're aware of that they're proposing that we know of yet.

还没有。

Not yet.

我是说，他们他们带着一个正当的案件来了。也许他们手里有些东西。谁知道呢？

I mean, they're they're coming in with a right case. Maybe they'll have something in there. Who knows?

在这之后，他们会因为这个案件变得更有可能吗？

After this, would they be more after this case, would they be more likely?

我 我 我 这

I I I The

解决方案网络？

solution network?

我当然认为，有了那个先例——公众...那个...上诉法院说，是的，你可以这么做，而且，是的，你可以从基础获得赔偿。我是说，我当然认为，是的，那会...我是说，这总能带来一点稳定性，比如，哦，既然法院这么说了，他们就可以依赖这个。这就是民主的伟大之处之一，各位。所以，这就是今天的课程，你们的公民课。

I certainly think that having that precedent that the public that the that the court appeal said, yes. You can do this, and, yes, you can get a recovery from base. I mean, I certainly think that, yes, that will that I mean, that always lends to a little bit stability like, oh, well, court said this, so they can rely on that. It's one of the great things about democracy, folks. So now, that's your lesson for the day, your civics lesson.

但是，是的，Emily，你说得对。而且我不知道。我是说，Empire比KCP和L以及Ameren小得多。他们甚至没有20万客户。我说得对吗？

But, yes, Emily, that's right. And I don't know. Mean, Empire is smaller than KCP and L and Ameren by quite a bit. They don't even have 200,000 customers. Am I right?

这个数字仍然是准确的。大概就是这样。

That's still an accurate number. It's something like that.

就在那儿。对。

Right there. Yeah.

是的。所以像Ameren和KCP这样的大公司才会承担这类雄心勃勃的项目，因为它们具备规模经济优势。但其他公司也在快速进步。比如Empire，过去运作得更像合作社，而现在在我看来，它已成为某些领域的领导者。它们确实走在前沿，这很好。

Yeah. So they don't typically do these ambitious projects like Ameren and KCP only do because they don't have the economies of scale. But they are getting much better. I mean, Empire, I think, used to run more like cooperative, and now it's really become, like, a leader in my opinion on some of these issues. They're they're really out there, which is good.

没错。它们算是迈入了哪个世纪？二十一世纪吗？

Yeah. They've joined the what century or the twenty first century?

我想是吧。我也不确定。好吧，我们总是开倒车。我觉得...

I think. I don't know. Alright. We keep going backwards. I think that's

社会议题啊。确实。要我说，这里面有很多灵活操作的空间。

social issues. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of flex in the joints, I'd say.

对。所以本质上，我们回顾所有这些历史是为了说明：当上诉法院这样裁决，而公共服务委员会表示'我们认为这将涵盖一切'时，立法机构就必须介入重新定义——我们要如何界定电力公司、电力设施，以确保明确排除市政电力、合作社以及想建设电动车充电站的私人个体。这就是第355号众议院法案的内容，而所有这些历史最终促成了这个简单的修正。

Yeah. So so basically, we go through all this history to explain that when the court of appeals said this and the PSC said, well, we believe this is gonna be everything. That the legislature has to come in and say, okay, we're gonna redefine how we talk about electric corporations, we talk about electric plant to make sure we specifically exclude munis, co ops, and private individuals who wanna build EV charging stations. And that's what house bill three fifty five does. And all this history led to that one simple fix.

不过话说回来，这其实并不简单。整个会期都在推动这件事，绝非易事，不是那种能轻松通过的议案。要知道，所有这些事情都极其复杂。

And then even well, that wasn't simple. I mean, that took all session to get there. That wasn't like an easy that wasn't something that was just that just sailed through. That, you know, it's you know, all this stuff is really complicated.

是的。嗯，我要指出那不仅仅是那份法案里的内容。哦。

Yeah. Well, I'll note that it wasn't just that in that house bill. Oh.

里面还有其他几项内容。对吧？

Were couple other things in there. Right?

是的。我是说，它们涉及委员与其顾问之间的保密性。对。所以这里面包含了很多杂项。我是说，没错。

Yeah. I mean, they're related to confidentiality between commissioners and their staff advisers. Yeah. So a lot of miscellaneous things were included in this. I mean, yeah.

如果你

If you were

去和那些有点反对的人谈谈，我是说，好吧。委员们有顾问。他们不一定是律师，你知道的。显然，律师和他们所建议的对象之间有律师-客户特权，你知道的，那里有沟通保护。但如果你不是律师，理论上，这不是我的类比，这不是我的假设，是别人的。

to talk to some people who were a little opposed to that, I mean, okay. So the commissioners have advisers. They're not required to be lawyers, you know. Obviously, an attorney a lawyer and who they advise has an attorney client privilege, you know, there's communication protection there. But if you're not a lawyer, in theory, this this is not my analogy, this is not my hypo, somebody else's that.

如果一名顾问知道某位委员收了贿赂，他们可能被传唤作证。但现在不用了。蒂姆，说说你的看法。

If an adviser was aware that a commissioner took a bribe from somebody, they could have to be brought in to testify about that. But now, they don't. Tim, comment.

我是说，我觉得这是对法律的极端解读。但但有人可能会这么主张。

I mean, I think that's a pretty extreme reading of the law. But but somebody Somebody could argue that.

但确实有人在上周的CLE课程中提到了这一点。没错，我并不是说他们是对的，我只是说这是一种可能性。确实存在这种可能。

But somebody did make that reference in our CLE last week. Right. I'm not saying they're right. I'm just saying that's a possibility. It's a possibility.

好的，所以那一点也被包含在内了。是的，正如我所说，这项法案已在众议院和参议院通过，现在正等待州长帕森的签署。我真心希望它能通过，因为我知道那些大型农村合作社对此很感兴趣——他们有意建立网络，并计划在州内的农村地区实施，我认为这具有很大的潜力。

Okay. So that was in there too. And so, yeah, we have and this law passed the house, as I said, passed the senate. It's being waited for governor Parson's signature. And I do hope because, mean, I know that the rural large cooperatives in talking to them, they are interested in building out a network and they're interested in you know doing that in rural parts of the state and I think that's got a lot of potential.

嗯，我认为这将是必要的，可以缓解我们之前讨论的那种续航焦虑。

Well I think it will be necessary to reduce that range anxiety that we were talking about earlier as

艾米丽，你知道的，你某种程度上...

Emily, you know, you you kind

负责我们这里的政策事务。我是说，你认为我们...我是说，你觉得...你认为会有需求吗？你觉得趋势是否正朝着我们需要更多电动汽车充电站的方向发展？有人预测美国会建设更多这类设施，你在外面听到什么风声了吗？

of do our policy stuff here. Mean, do you think that we're I mean I mean, do you think mean, do you see that there's gonna be mean, do you think there's, like, a demand for this? Do you think there's, like, the trend is moving that we're gonna need the EV charging stations? I mean, there people saying like we're gonna be building more of these in The United States? What are you hearing out there on the street?

有什么最新消息？

What's the buzz?

嗯，我知道密苏里州去年在立法机构提出过一项提案，本质上是要通过征收额外费用来惩罚驾驶混合动力和电动汽车的人，以此替代汽油税。所以很难预测这是否会影响密苏里州的电动汽车普及率，如果人们将面临...

Well, I know that in Missouri this past year there was something floated in the legislature to sort of punish people who drive hybrids and electric vehicles by Oh, by levying an additional fee on them of in replacement for the gas tax. So it's hard to predict based on that how that would affect EV adoption in Missouri if people are gonna be

我认为背景是这样的，因为去年我们有一项汽油税提案在投票中失败了。

I think the background on that was that because we had a gas tax in the ballot last year and it failed.

是的。

Yeah.

当时增加收入的一种方式是，好吧，如果你因为使用电动车充电而不在汽油上花费那么多钱，我们就要对这种车辆收取更高的费用。我想这就是背后的逻辑。退步吗？确实。

That a way to get more revenue was to say, okay. Well, if you're not spending as much money on gas because you have an EV charging, we're gonna charge you more to buy this vehicle. That was, I think, the rationale behind that. Regressive? Yes.

但我认为其目的是为了解决密苏里州没有资金修建道路和桥梁的问题。

But I think the the purpose of it was to help address the fact that we don't have any money to build roads and bridges in Missouri.

是的，我只是不知道这会对想要采用或

Yeah. I just I don't know how that would impact people who wanna adopt or

购买的人产生什么影响，不会说是积极的。

buy wouldn't say it'd be positive.

类似这样的情况。

Things like that.

是的，我对电动汽车的普及更加乐观，因为我们看到西部地区的KCPL已经对充电站进行了巨额投资。还有大众汽车的和解资金，这是另一项用于沿我们交通走廊建设充电基础设施的资金来源。此外，Ameren Missouri的走廊充电项目今年已获批。所以整个架构即将显现。

Yeah. So I'm more bullish on electric vehicle adoption because we are seeing you know, we've got KCPL on the Western Side that has made this huge investment in charging stations. We have the Volkswagen settlement money, which is another source of funding for EV charging infrastructure to go along our corridors. We have Ameren Missouri had a corridor charging program approved this year. So gonna start to see the structure.

但从更宏观的层面来看，我们开始看到一些大型汽车公司推出不同型号的纯电动汽车。它们正逐渐摆脱混合动力车型，转向全电动化。我甚至读到多篇报道讨论皮卡——嗯，他们正在研发电动皮卡。

But then on a, I guess, a larger macro scale, we're starting to see some of these large car companies come out with different models of 100% electric vehicle. They're kinda getting away from the hybrid vehicles. They're moving towards all electric. I've even read a number of things talking about how pickup trucks Mhmm. They're talking about making electric pickup trucks.

没错。要知道在美国，尤其是密苏里州，很多人开皮卡。这有点像...就像你，就像我。是的。

Right. Which, you know, there's a lot of people in America and in Missouri especially who drive pickups. It's sort of a Like you. Like me. Yeah.

有时候你需要搬运东西，对吧？是的。所以我认为宏观环境正在发生更大的变化，这将使电动汽车在未来几十年真正腾飞。

Sometimes you need to move things around. Right? Yeah. So I think that there's larger things that macro conditions occurring that are going to make electric vehicles really expand in the next couple decades.

正如我的老经济学教授穆伦博士所说，我们不能再压榨恐龙了。所以我们必须为此做点什么，对吧？

And as my old econ professor, doctor Mullen said, we're not squishing any more dinosaurs. So we gotta, like, do something about that. Right?

是的，没错。除非你有...

Yeah. That's right. Unless you have

除非你有消息说我们还能继续压榨恐龙。

unless you have knowledge that we are gonna be squishing more dinosaurs.

我认为鳄鱼在技术上是恐龙。我不认为如果我们正在

I think alligators are technically dinosaurs. I don't think If we were getting

关于这个话题，我们说鸟类是恐龙。鸟类啊。乌龟，我认为也是恐龙。我们可以挤压它们制造石油。你是这个意思吗？

the pot talk, we say birds are dinosaurs. Birds, man. Turtles, I think are dinosaurs. We could squish them and make oil. Is that what you're suggesting?

不，我不是这个意思。我们不应该去杀一堆乌龟，然后用它们的油来开车。你是乌龟鱼。对。

No. I'm not suggesting. We should, like, go kill a bunch of turtles and, like, run our cars off the walls. You're turtle fish. Yeah.

你是乌龟。对。乌龟乌龟仇恨者。

You're turtle Yeah. Turtle turtle hater.

乌龟汤。

Turtle soup.

好吧。对此还有什么临别想法吗？在乌龟大屠杀之后我

Yeah. Okay. Any parting thoughts on this? After the turtle massacre I over

会考虑给一家假想的充电站公司起什么名字。

will think about what I would name a hypothetical charging station company.

蒂姆和戈怎么样？不行。好吧。

How about Tim and Go? No. Okay.

我是说，这难道不会有点像对现有加油站的商标侵权吗？

I mean, I think wouldn't that sort of be like a trademark infringement on an existing gas station?

我不知道。他们真该改个名字，因为他们觉得这很恶心。

I don't know. They should really change their name because they just think that's gross.

好吧，你们这是第一次在这里听说这事。

Well, there's there's you heard it here first.

我是说，大家明白我在说什么。所以，是的，你们想想看。有意见或建议就写下来。艾米丽，你有什么想宣传的吗？

I mean, people, you know what I'm talking about. So, yeah, you think about that. You have comments or suggestions. Write them in. Emily, anything you wanna promote?

没什么要

Nothing for

我现在说的。只是...我不知道。别伤害海龟。

me now. Just I don't know. Don't kill turtles.

不要杀害海龟。

Don't kill turtles.

为了你们的电动车。

For your EVs.

对哥伦比亚本周通过的气候行动计划感到相当兴奋吗？

Pretty excited about the climate action plan passing in Columbia this week?

是啊，那确实令人兴奋，我也是。马修也是。

Yeah. That was that was excite I was. So was Matthew.

哦，还有马特。对。

Oh, and Matt. Yeah.

他帮忙撰写了证词，让我能够进行陈述。是的，我相信。

He helped write testimony that I was able to present. Yeah. I believe.

艾米丽很好地代表了这里的五个本地组织

Emily did a good job representing five local local organizations here

是的。

Yeah.

在哥伦比亚，包括密苏里州的雷诺。没错。干得好。七比零领先。

In Columbia, including Renew, Missouri. Right. So good job. Past seven to nothing.

对，对。这可是件大事。

Yeah. Yeah. It's a big deal.

所以现在我们真的得让它运作起来，对吧？

So now we actually gotta make it work. Right?

没错。是的。这只是个决议。

Right. Yeah. It's just a resolution.

是啊，就像绿色新政那样，我们之前讨论过的，对吧？

So Yeah. Like the Green New Deal, which we had a whole thing about. Right?

希望比我们预期的更有约束力。但愿如此。我们拭目以待。

Hopefully, a little more binding than We hope so. All of that. But we'll see.

没错。但这就是像我们这样的团体重要的地方，帮助引导这些监管者和政策制定者如何实现他们选民的目标。老兄，你说到点子上了。

Yeah. But that's where groups like us are important, to help guide these regulators and policymakers into how to implement the goals that their constituents have. Boy, you said it, mister.

我认为你说得对。我确实喜欢这个团体，希望你们也都喜欢，并喜欢今天在《复兴大师》上听到的内容。如果喜欢这期播客，请在社交媒体上分享，在Spotify和iTunes上订阅，别忘了留下好评。差评可以通过邮件发送，顺便建议蒂姆给他的电动车充电站起什么名字。

I think you're right. I I do like this group and I hope you all like this group and I hope you all like what you heard today on Renew Gurus. If you did dig this podcast, please share it on your social media networks. Subscribe to it on Spotify and iTunes, and be sure to write all your positive reviews. All your negative reviews can come through an email where you're also suggesting what Tim is gonna call his EV charging station.

希望下周还能回来，我们将连续录制两期节目。同时，志存高远。

We hope we'll be back next week, so we're gonna be doing two of these in a row. And, you know, in the meantime, reaching for the stars.