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你好。
Hello.
欢迎来到《TheRestHistory》。
Welcome to TheRestHistory.
今天是12月27号，我们继续聊聊这十二天，甚至可能十三天的圣诞季。
It's the December 27, and so we continue with our twelve or maybe even thirteen days of Christmas.
多米尼克，你选12月27号这个纪念日，我觉得特别应景，对吧？
And, Dominic, your choice of an anniversary for the December 27, I think, is a kind of it's a very seasonally appropriate one, isn't it?
因为这个日子跟波特酒有关。
Because it it's themed around port.
确实是跟波特酒有关。
It is themed around port.
很多人在圣诞节都喜欢喝波特酒。
So lots of people like port for Christmas.
它能让你
Gives you
宿醉的时候闻到的都是波特酒味，对吧？
worms hangovers, doesn't it?
不是的。
No.
我觉得吧，我宿醉的时候就是能闻到波特酒的味道。
I think that's quite I just smell port when I get a hangover.
我觉得你喝很多波特酒也不一定会醉，我兄弟有次洗澡时喝光了一整瓶波特酒。
So I think you can drink a lot of port and not get my brother once drank an entire bottle of port while having a bath.
他啊，总不至于在浴缸里淹死吧。
Did he well, presumably didn't drown in his bath.
没有。
No.
他说那是一瓶白波特酒，我听他这么讲的。
He I think it was a bottle of white Port, he told me.
他说他从浴缸里出来的时候，感觉特别好。
And he said he got out of the bath and he felt great.
然后约翰逊博士说，波特酒是英雄喝的酒之类的？
And then Doctor Johnson say Port was the drink for heroes or something?
差不多吧，我们待会儿再聊波特酒爱好者。
Something like well, we're gonna come on to port drinkers.
我后面还有一些关于波特酒饮用者的有趣事实。
I've got some port good facts about port drinkers later on.
波特酒在英国当然很受欢迎。
So port, very popular in England, of course, in Britain.
在其他地方就没那么流行了，比如美国之类的地方，不过我觉得现在开始有点兴起的趋势。
Not so popular elsewhere, not so popular in The States and whatnot, though I think it's taking off a little bit.
但为什么呢？
But why?
为什么在英国这么受欢迎？
Why is it so popular in Britain in England?
你知道吗，汤姆？
Do you know, Tom?
是因为我们和葡萄牙的老同盟关系吗？
Is it our our old alliance with Portugal?
确实有这方面原因。
It kind of is.
这要追溯到1818年12月27日，也就是梅休因条约的签订。
So it comes back to something that happened on the 12/27/1818 seventeen o three, which is called the Methuen Treaty.
当时我们正处在西班牙王位继承战争中。
So we're in the war of Spanish succession.
那是17世纪中期到18世纪末滑铁卢之前，我们和法国之间打的一连串战争之一。
So one of the kind of endless wars that we fought between the sort of mid seventeenth century and the late eighteenth century world Waterloo with France.
说白了，那场战争就像一场全球性的大战，对吧？
Basically, war for you know, it's like a colossal world war, isn't it, I suppose?
你可能想不到，葡萄牙那时候其实站在法国一边。
And Portugal has actually been allied with the French, believe it or not.
什么？
What?
是啊，没错。
So so yes.
我知道。
I know.
我本来以为
I thought
我还以为他们都是内部盟友呢。
they I thought they were all internal allies.
我知道我们有些葡萄牙听众，也许你们能自己解释一下。
This is we I know we have some Portuguese listeners, and perhaps they can explain themselves.
这行为太让人震惊了。
It's shocking behavior.
如果他们真是
If they're members
历史俱乐部的成员，就该在Discord群里站出来说明一下自己的行为。
of the restish history club, they should declare themselves on the Discord chat and explain their conduct.
因为这场战争刚开始的时候，葡萄牙是和法国结盟的。
Because at the beginning of this war, Portugal is allied with France.
但到了圣诞节，这层关系就彻底崩了。
Now That's ruined by Christmas.
英国的葡萄酒，明显主要靠法国进口。
England gets most of its wine, obviously, from France.
所以酒都是跨过英吉利海峡运过来的，诸如此类。
So it's sort of shipped over the channel and and stuff.
但既然我们跟法国打仗了，葡萄酒就进不来了，大家只好去找别的供货来源。
But, obviously, because we're at war with the French, we're not getting so much wine and so on and so people are looking for alternative suppliers.
是因为官方对法国实施了禁运吗？
Is that because there's an official state boycott
不是。
from France?
不是。
No.
真的吗？
Really?
因为我们出于爱国，故意不喝它。
Because we're patriotically refusing to drink it.
我觉得主要是因为麻烦。
I think it's just more yeah.
我觉得这挺麻烦的。
I think it's sort of Hassle.
麻烦，还有爱国情怀。
Hassle, patriotism.
我觉得根本没法严格执行。
I don't think you could even enforce.
我的意思是，大部分葡萄酒都是通过走私来的。
I mean, there's obviously lots of most of hate is smuggling.
所以这种禁运真能管得那么严吗？
So whether a boycott could even be be that strictly enforced
还有，多米尼克，我们接下来有一期关于走私的节目。
And and, Dominic, we have an episode on smuggling coming up
非常精彩。
in the Very exciting.
所以我们会在新年那期关于走私的节目里揭晓这个问题的答案。
So we'll be discovering the answer to that question in the new year in our smuggling episode.
不过，英国的旅行者已经去葡萄牙打探过那里的葡萄酒贸易情况了。
But English travelers have already been to Portugal to suss out the wine trade there.
所以在1678年，一位利物浦的酒商派了两名代表去了一个叫维亚纳-杜卡斯特洛的地方，它位于波尔图以北。
So in 1678, a Liverpool wine merchant sent two representatives to a place called Viana Do Castello, which is just north of Oporto or Porto.
然后他们去了一个地方，这肯定会让你感兴趣，汤姆。
And they went to a this will please you, Tom.
他们去了一个修道院，是的。
They went to an abbey Yeah.
叫拉梅戈，它位于杜罗河谷，也就是那种典型的河谷地带。
Called at La Mego, which is in the the sort of port valleys, the great valleys of the kind of duro.
那里的修道院院长给了他们一种被称为非常可口、微甜且极其顺滑的酒，还加了葡萄烈酒来增强酒力。
And the abbot there gave them what they called a very agreeable, sweetish, and extremely smooth wine, which they have fortified with grape spirit.
对啊。
Mhmm.
所以这是一种加强型葡萄酒。
So so it's a fortified wine.
也就是说，这是波特酒。
So it's port.
他们说，这酒真不错。
And they say, oh, this is very nice.
于是把修道院所有的存货都买下了。
And they buy the whole lot of the abbot's stocks.
真厉害。
Wow.
这热情可真够高的，不是吗？
That is enthusiasm, isn't it?
是的
Yeah.
然后带回家。
And bring it home.
所以他们早就知道外面有些好东西。
So there's already they've they already know that there's some good stuff out there.
因为加了烈酒，存放时间更长，海上航行也更耐得住。
And because it's fortified, it will last longer and survive the sea voyage better.
所以运到殖民地也更合适，是的。
So it's also better for taking to the colonies Yeah.
当然。
Of course.
有意思的是。
Interestingly.
所以1703年，葡萄牙人不喜欢跟法国结盟。
So seventeen o three, the Portuguese don't like being allied to the French.
这让他们显得非常正面。
This shows them in a very good light.
是的。
Yeah.
他们本不该这样。
They should they shouldn't.
他们很想换阵营。
And they're keen to change sides.
英国派驻葡萄牙的大使名叫约翰·梅休爵士，有趣的是，他还同时兼任爱尔兰大法官。
And the guy who is the Britain's ambassador to Portugal is a man called sir John Methuen, who is also who combines this job, interestingly, with being lord chancellor of Ireland.
哦。
Oh.
所以，我的意思是，这
So, I mean, that's
真是个显而易见的职务搭配。
who obvious job pairing.
这有点像鲍里斯·约翰逊内阁的搭配，对吧？
Well, it's a sort of Boris Johnson cabinet pairing, isn't it?
你既是平等事务部长，又是贸易部长。
You're you're minister for equalities and also minister And trade minister.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
这确实很符合二十一世纪的风格。
It's very much a kind of twenty first century kind of Yeah.
任命方式。
Appointment.
不过，比起十八世纪初，二十一世纪做这种安排可能更容易些。
But, I mean, possibly easier to do in the twenty first century than the early eighteenth century.
是的。
Yes.
我想说的是。
I should imagine saying.
我的意思是，比斯开湾。
I mean, how I mean, the Bay Of Biscay.
那片海域可是风浪很大。
I mean, it's a rough sea.
对。
Yeah.
你不可能经常在那儿航行，比如我们到时候会发现。
You're not gonna be wanna be sailing between, like, we will find
等我选好路线就知道了。
out when we come to my choice.
频繁地。
On a regular basis.
这个播客的一半内容。
Half of this podcast.
你知道我为什么觉得你会喜欢这个吗，汤姆？
You know why I think you would like this, Tom?
你知道约翰·马修爵士是哪里人吗？
Do you know where sir John Matthew was from?
威尔特郡。
Wiltshire.
他来自威尔特郡。
He was from Wiltshire.
索尔兹伯里？
Salisbury?
他来自埃文河畔布拉德福德。
He was from Bradford On Avon.
是吗？
Oh, was he?
是的
Yeah.
太棒了
Wonderful.
还有塞克顿镇。
And by Sexton Town.
但你知道乔纳森·斯威夫特对他怎么说的吗？
But do you know what Jonathan Swift said about him?
我猜是些难听的话。
Something rude, I imagine.
一个放荡的无赖，还跟粪便扯上关系。
A profligate rogue involving poo.
一个放荡的无赖，既无信仰也无道德，虽然够狡猾，却毫无才能。
A profligate rogue without religion or morals, cunning enough, but without abilities of any kind.
要是斯威夫特现在在这儿就好了。
Swift would be so good to have around at the moment.
他要是能来参加这个播客就好了。
He'd be a great guest for this podcast.
能见到他真是很棒，不过说回我们自己吧。
That'd be wonderful to meet Anyway about us.
他已经去世了。
He he's dead.
所以，嗯，我们只能
So I can't Well, we
没法假装了。
can't pretend.
于是约翰和葡萄牙人谈成了一个叫《波特酒条约》的协议，大致就是双方换阵营。
So so, anyway, so John negotiates this treaty with the Portuguese called the Port Wine Treaty, where they basically say they'll switch sides.
英国人向葡萄牙出口羊毛和布料。
The English will sell wool and cloth to the Portuguese.
这听起来真够中世纪的。
That's very medieval.
确实很中世纪。
Very medieval.
我们会从葡萄牙进口葡萄酒，而且对葡萄牙葡萄酒征收的关税比法国葡萄酒低三分之一。
And we will buy wine from Portugal, and we'll put less duty on it than wine that comes from France, a third less duty.
这对喜欢波特酒的人来说可是天大的好消息。
So this is tremendously good news for people who like port.
接下来的几年里，一大批经典的英国波特酒商号就这样建立了起来。
And in the next few years, you get the establishment of so many of these kind of classic English port houses.
你能在杜罗河对岸的维拉诺瓦德盖亚看到它们。
You see them in Villa Nova De Gaia on the other side of the river from from Porto.
泰勒、格雷厄姆、科克伯恩、桑德曼，这些著名的酒庄都是那时候兴起的。
So Taylor's, Graham's, Cockburn's, Sandymans, all these kind of great houses.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
Tom，你去过波尔图吗？
Have you ever been to Porto, Tom?
没有。
No.
我没去过。
I haven't.
真想去
Don't love to
去波尔图。
go to Porto.
其实我只去过葡萄牙一次。
I've actually only been to Portugal once.
它是我特别想去的地方里的第一名。
It's number one on my list of places I want to go to.
我觉得葡萄牙是个非常棒的国家。
Portugal is a very fine country, I think.
只是在里斯本短暂停留了一下。
Stopped off in Lisbon.
里斯本是个很棒的城市。
Lisbon is a fantastic city.
我觉得那儿美极了。
Thought it was beautiful.
整个葡萄牙都值得去走一走。
And the whole of of of Portugal, it's just waiting to go.
是的。
Yeah.
里斯本有个地方叫波特酒研究所，其实有点像绅士俱乐部。
So there's a place in Lisbon called the it's called the Port Wine Institute, and it's basically like a gentleman's club.
这让我想起我们之前聊过的绅士俱乐部那一期。
A little note back to our gentleman's clubs episode.
你可以进去看看。
And you can go in there.
他们那儿的酒单特别长，全是各种波特酒。
They've got, like, a huge wine list, which is just ports.
我猜作为布鲁克斯的会员，你应该挺熟悉的。
Well, I imagine as a member of Brooks'.
他们一定会热情接待你。
Come here with open arms.
那地方真的很棒。
It's very good.
是的。
Yeah.
他们肯定会特别喜欢你，汤姆。
They'll love you, Tom.
尤其是你穿着去布鲁克斯的那套定制西装去，那套不是挺讲究的吗？
Especially if you go in your nice suit that you wore to Brooks', which I think is a is a is a bespoke suit, isn't it?
没错。
It is.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
如果你穿着那套定制西装去，我觉得他们会非常印象深刻。
If you if you go in your bespoke suit, I think they'll be very impressed.
没错。
Yep.
我觉得他们在葡萄牙有你的书，是吧？
I think they've got your books in Portugal, don't they?
你的书有被翻译成葡萄牙语吗？
Are they translated into Portuguese?
是的。
Yeah.
有一部分。
Some of them.
我记得那次走进去的时候
I remember going into
那一定让你特别开心。
That must have made your day.
就在刚认识你不久后，我们去里斯本度假，走进一家特别棒的书店，那种老派风格的书店。
I so not long after I'd first met you, we went to Lisbon on holiday, we and went into this gorgeous bookshop, you know, old fashioned bookshop.
我一看到，心就沉了下去，因为他们几乎整面墙都摆着《卢比孔河》和《波斯火焰》。
And my heart, apps, sank like a stone because they had almost like a whole wall of rubicon or Persian fire.
光是你自己成功还不够。
It's it's not enough that you succeed.
你的朋友会失败。
Your friends will fail.
那感觉太糟糕了。
It's it was awful.
简直毁了整个假期。
Ruin the holiday.
是的。
Yeah.
不过，抱歉刚才跑题了。
Anyway Sorry about that.
我们还是回来说说梅休恩条约吧。
Back to the Methuen treaty.
这个条约非常成功。
It's very successful.
到1717年，葡萄牙葡萄酒占了英国进口葡萄酒总量的三分之二。
So by 1717, Portuguese wines account for two thirds of all the wines imported into England.
你知道英国进口的葡萄酒里，法国酒占了多少吗？
And do you know how many wines in England were French?
百分之五。
5%.
百分之四，汤姆。
4%, Tom.
非常多。
Very much.
4%。
4%.
差得可怜。
Very poor.
这得多爱国啊？
How patriotic is that?
非常爱国。
Very patriotic.
非常了不起。
Very impressive.
到了十八世纪，葡萄酒变得如此稀缺，以至于成了英国人的标配饮品。
So poor became in the eighteenth century, it was known as the Englishman's drink.
而且
And
这对葡萄牙也有好处吗？
And was this good for Portugal as well?
非常好，因为他们赚了大笔钱。
Very good because they're making loads of money.
是的。
Yeah.
他们提供了大量就业机会，大家都很开心。
They're giving lots of people employments, they're very happy.
英国实际上正在蓬勃发展，成为经济强国。
They're they're essentially Britain is kinda booming, becoming the economic superpower.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
So yes.
这就像是大规模消费
It's just like a Spending
我们把所有钱都投在了港口上。
all our money on ports.
所以社交俱乐部，我们最近几期聊了很多俱乐部，毕竟我们自己的俱乐部就是其中之一。
So social clubs, obviously, we've talked a lot about clubs in recent episodes because, of course, our own club.
但我觉得这种做法值得推广到其他历史俱乐部——俱乐部会以拥有‘三瓶男’会员为荣。
But the clubs I don't know where I think this is an innovation that we should introduce in the restish history club because clubs would tout their membership of what were called three bottle men.
所谓‘三瓶男’，不是我弟弟那种人，而是能一口气喝下三瓶酒还不失体面的男人。
So three bottle man, unlike my brother, was a man who could drink three bottles of pork in one sitting without disgracing himself.
剧作家谢里丹就是个‘三瓶男’。
So the playwright Sheridan, he was a three bottle man.
布鲁克斯也是。
As was Brooks'.
小皮特也是。
As was, well, as was Pitt the Younger.
小皮特也是。
So was Pitt the Younger.
是的。
Yeah.
所以他们都聚在布鲁克斯俱乐部，一口气喝掉三瓶波特酒。
So they were all in Brooks' necking three bottles of of port.
波特酒。
Port.
三瓶波特酒。
Three bottles of port.
我是说，她是怎么跟这个扯上关系的？你知道雪利酒和这个有什么关联吗？
I mean And how does she do you know how sherry ties in with this?
雪利酒嘛，是来自西班牙的。
Well, sherry's sherry's from Spain.
不是来自……对，就是西班牙。
It's not from Yeah.
没错。
It is.
赫雷斯。
Hereth.
赫雷斯。
Hereth.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
但我一直在想，这会不会是类似的情况？
But I wondered was it a kind of similar thing?
也许我们可以查一查。
Maybe we can investigate that.
这是一种类似的加强型葡萄酒，对吧？
Well, it's a it's a similarly fortified wine, isn't it?
但确实是。
But It is.
英国商人和西班牙的供应商之间也有着类似的紧密联系。
And there's a kind of similar close link between English traders and Yeah.
你知道的，就是西班牙那边的供货商。
You know, the suppliers in in Spain.
也许我们可以在这方面深入研究一下。
Maybe there we could we could
我们 definitely 应该做个播客。
We should definitely do a podcast.
好几个人在推特上都跟我们说过，应该做个关于饮品的播客。
It's been said to us several times by people on Twitter and so on that we should do a podcast on drinks.
是的。
Yeah.
关于葡萄酒、茶，还有……
On wine, on tea, on Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
这些饮品都有着引人入胜的历史。
Let's they have fascinating histories.
所以你看，就是这样。
So there you go.
正如伊丽莎白会说的，我们可能得先做些研究，再真正着手做这件事。
As Elizabeth will able tell, we probably need to do some research before we actually embark on that.
没错。
That's true.
我同意。
But I agree.
我的意思是，这确实是个特别有意思的主题。
I mean, that is a fascinating that is a fascinating theme.
很好。
Good.
就像我之前说的，我只要喝一口波特酒，就能进入状态。
And I I mean, as I've said, I I basically I can a sip of port and I get Yeah.
你可不是能喝三瓶的主儿。
You're not a three bottle mouth.
可不是。
Not.
你拿这个干嘛呢？
What the hell are you doing with this?
你刚才滔滔不绝讲波特酒的时候，我其实正在查约翰逊博士的那句名言。
So so while you while you were giving this wonderful disquisition on port, I was actually checking the doctor Johnson quote.
什么？
What?
你没在记笔记？
You weren't listing?
没有。
No.
我那是边听边干两件事。
I was I was multitasking.
原文是这么说的：雪利酒是给男孩喝的，波特酒是给男人喝的，但要想成为英雄，就得喝白兰地。
And the actual quote is, Clarit is a liquor for boys, port for men, but he who aspires to be a hero must drink brandy.
哦。
Oh.
那咱们是不是也该加一瓶白兰地？确实该加。
So we should maybe include one brandy as well We should.
对。
Yes.
作为我们今后讨论的主题。
On our future subject.
好的。
Okay.
这真有意思，多米尼克。
Well, that was fascinating, Dominic.
我刚才还提到了比斯开湾。
And, I mentioned, the Bay Of Biscay
是的。
Yeah.
那里的海浪有多凶猛，乘船穿越比斯开湾时有多容易晕船。
And how violent the the waves can be there, how bad the seasickness that you get sailing in a ship across the Bay Of Biscay.
这正好关联到我选的周年纪念年份——1831年，查尔斯·达尔文从普利茅斯港启航，穿越大西洋，经过比斯开湾，登上小猎犬号。
And that ties in with my choice of an anniversary, which is 1831, and it's Charles Darwin setting off from Plymouth Sound out into the Atlantic down through the Bay Of Biscay on the Beagle.
休息回来后，我们就来讲讲达尔文搭乘小猎犬号启航的事。
So, we'll come to, Darwin setting sail on the Beagle after the break.
欢迎回到《历史其余部分》。
Welcome back to The Rest is History.
汤姆·荷兰已经为达尔文搭乘小猎犬号的航行做了很好的铺垫。
Tom Holland has set the scene very nicely for the voyage of Charles Darwin on the Beagle.
当然了，汤姆，你知道查尔斯·达尔文和我一样，都是什罗普郡出身的。
Now, of course, Tom, you know that Charles Darwin was a great slopian like me, a son of Shropshire.
对。
Yes.
没错。
I do.
我觉得在什罗普郡，人们常提到的有四位名人。
So I think Shropshire I think there were the big four there were the big four that people talk about.
一个是查尔斯·达尔文。
There's Charles Darwin.
还有一个是罗伯特。
There's Robert.
还有克莱夫，印度的克莱夫。
There's there's Clive, Clive of India.
对。
Mhmm.
还有卡罗尔·迪克尔。
There's Carol Decker.
就是塔帕乐队的卡罗尔·迪克尔。
There's Carol Decker of Tapau.
是的
Yeah.
好的
Okay.
还有桑布鲁克。
And Sambrook.
还有我呢。
And there's me.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
我的意思是，不是说克里夫或者塔普的粉丝不好，但我觉得这四位当中
I I mean, no offense to no offense to Clive fans of Tapau or you, but I think of of those four
别说了。
Shut up.
在这四个人里，查尔斯·达尔文应该是排第一的。
I think of those four, Charles Darwin is probably top.
顶流人物。
Toptopian.
顶流人物。
Toptopian.
我是说，查尔斯……
I mean, Charles
达尔文是个极其重要的人物，这不用说，主要是因为他提出了进化论，还有《物种起源》这些开创性的工作。
Darwin is a massive, massive figure, and he's a massive figure, obviously, because of theory of evolution, all that kind of stuff, origin of species, everything.
我真觉得我们应该做个关于达尔文的播客，尤其是专门讲讲‘小猎犬号航行’，因为达尔文自己说过，那趟航行是他一生中最重要的事。
And I I absolutely think that we should do a podcast, on Darwin and perhaps specifically on the Voyage of the Beagle because Darwin went on Darwin said by far it was the the Voyage of the Beagle was by far the most important event in his life.
因为在登上小猎犬号之前，他其实只是个准备当牧师的年轻人。
Because before he left on the Beagle, he was basically a man who was in training to become a clergyman.
他家境不错，但那时候还没想好到底要走哪条路。
So he was from kind of prosperous background, wasn't entirely sure what to do.
所以那时候，就像现在一些家境不错、受过良好教育的年轻人，还不知道自己该做什么。
So I suppose a bit like today, kind of posh people with good educational backgrounds who don't quite know what to do.
我的意思是，他们能干嘛呢？
I mean, what do they do?
去
Come
他们就去
They go to
当管理顾问之类的吧。
the or management consultants or something.
是的。
Yeah.
那时候，基本上就是去当牧师。
Back then, basically, you become a clergyman.
因为牧师这行，算得上是一份体面的工作。
So because a clergyman was kind of a it was a it was a nice job.
你会有一座挺体面的牧师住宅。
You you'd have a, you know, a nice rectory.
你有时间去追求自己真正喜欢的事。
You'd have time to to to follow your pursuits.
在达尔文的情况里，他的兴趣主要集中在自然历史上。
And in Darwin's case, those pursuits basically revolved around, first of all, natural history.
他特别热衷于甲虫。
So he was a a great enthusiast for beetles.
他喜欢收集各种甲虫。
He loved kind of, you know, collecting beetles.
他还是一位出色的植物学家。
He a great botanist.
我的意思是，他全都很喜欢。
I mean, he loved it all.
我想到另一个来自什鲁斯伯里的人，叫多米尼克。
I thought of somebody else who came from Shrewsbury who was Dominic.
威尔·费纳。
Will Ferner.
谁？
Who?
他对甲虫、化石和收集各种东西都很感兴趣。
He was very interested in beetles and fossils and collecting things.
明白了。
Okay.
他可能仅次于达尔文。
He probably he probably comes second to Darwin.
这跑题了。
That's a complete sidetrack.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
达尔文对自然科学非常感兴趣，但最近他又对地质学产生了浓厚兴趣。
So Darwin's very interested in natural history, but he's also very recently become interested in geology.
那时候，地质学刚刚起步，正处于爆发式的成长阶段。
And this is a time where the where where the study of geology is it's it it kind of explosive infancy.
人们纷纷前往德文郡、威尔士或苏格兰的野外，绘制岩石的历史图谱。
People are going out into the wilds of Devon or Wales or Scotland, and they're mapping out the history of rock.
达尔文对这个领域着了迷。
And Darwin is obsessed by this.
他真心想把一生都献给这个方向，但当时能从事自然科学或地质学研究的学术职位几乎不存在。
And really, that's what he wants to devote his life to, but the the the, you know, the kind of the academic posts, the careers that would enable him to follow a career in natural history or in geology aren't open.
所以，唯一能走的路，就是当牧师。
So essentially, clergy is the only only way in.
他因此感到有些沮丧。
So he's feeling he's feeling kind of a a bit depressed about that.
说实话，他根本不想当牧师。
You know, ideally, he'd like not to become a clergyman.
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他真想一辈子研究大自然，可就是没这样的机会。
He'd like to devote his life to studying the natural world, but but, you know, there's no there's no kind of opportunity.
到了1831年夏天，机会终于来了——有人邀请他登上一艘叫小猎犬号的船，当个陪客。
And then in 1831, early summer of eighteen thirty one, opportunity does come knocking in the form of an invitation to go onboard a ship called the Beagle as basically a kind of gentleman's companion.
那位绅士是谁？
Who's the gentleman?
所以
So the
那位绅士叫罗伯特·菲茨罗伊，是小猎犬号的船长。
the gentleman is, a man called Robert Fitzroy, who is the captain of the Beagle.
他出身非常显赫。
And he is he's very he's a of impeccable background.
他是个典型的保守派，而当时英国政坛正天翻地覆，1831年全年都在激烈争论《改革法案》。
He is he's he's a stern Tory, and this is a time of great political convulsion because the massive debate about the reform act that's going, you know, roiling parliament all through 1831.
他是卡斯尔雷勋爵的侄子，那位勋爵当时任外交大臣。
He is the nephew of lord Castelray, who was the foreign secretary Yeah.
对维也纳会议的否定态度。
Negation of the congress of Vienna.
不被那些人喜欢。
Not popular with
拜伦或者雪莱。
Byron or Shelley.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
而且他以自杀闻名。
And who notoriously committed suicide.
他割喉自尽。
So he slit his throat.
菲茨罗伊对此很不安，因为他担心……抑郁会不会是家族遗传？
And Fitzroy is is nervous about this because he's he's worried that, you know, does is depression something that runs in the family?
他特别担心这个，是因为之前乘坐小猎犬号去南美洲的船长，这次小猎犬号又要走同样的路线，已经到了麦哲伦地区，结果那地方太压抑、太无聊，他居然开枪自杀了。
And the reason he's particularly worried about this is that the the captain of the Beagle who had gone on the previous voyage down to South America, which is where the Beagle is planning to go, he'd he'd got to the Magellan States, and he'd he'd he'd found it so depressing and boring that he'd he'd shot himself.
天哪。
Oh god.
这可不在我推荐的选项里。
That's not my recommendation.
所以菲茨罗伊真的很担心。
So Fitzroy is is nervous about this.
他不想成为船上唯一的绅士，因为作为绅士，他不能邀请非绅士的人一起吃饭。
He's he, you know, he doesn't want to be the only gentleman on the boat because as a gentleman, he can't, you know, invite people who aren't gentlemen to dine with him.
那样的话，日子可就太难熬了。
So that that would be miserable.
是的。
Yeah.
计划是这次航行两年，主要测绘南美洲海岸线，也可能更久，甚至绕地球一圈——事实上，他们最后还真这么干了。
And the the plan is that this is going to be a two year voyage to kind of map out the coastline of South America, perhaps even longer, perhaps go around the world, which in in the in the event is what they do.
结果这次航行持续了五年。
In the in the event, it's a five year voyage.
他需要一个伴，这才是最重要的考虑。
He is, so he's he he wants a companion, and that's basically the prime consideration.
此外，因为他们要去的是些陌生的地方，有着奇特的动植物和地质，理想人选得能胜任所有这些方面。
But on top of that, because they're going to these, strange lands with strange flora, strange fauna, strange geology, the ideal is someone who could, tick all those boxes.
而达尔文简直就是最完美的人选。
And, basically, Darwin is the most perfect person imaginable.
他出身社会阶层合适，科学背景也正好对口。
He's of the right social standing, and he's of, you know, he's got the right kind of scientific expertise.
不过，汤姆，他这个人很外向吗？
And is he quite a gregarious person, though, Tom?
他确实很外向，但他是个辉格党人。
He is quite a gregarious person, but he's a Whig.
所以他们可以
So So they can have
经常争论政治问题。
argued about politics.
嗯，这其实是
Well, this is
那时候政治争论非常激烈。
a this is a time of heated political debate.
所以这是一层阴影。
So that's that's a shadow.
但在达尔文加入之前，还笼罩着各种阴影。
But there there are all kinds of shadows that hang over.
在达尔文签约之前，第一个难题是他父亲不赞成。
Before Darwin, gets signed up, the first problem is that his father doesn't approve.
他父亲觉得这跟去休个间隔年没什么区别。
His father thinks that this is equivalent of, you know, going off in a gap year or something.
别跑出去，别去泰国什么的，在海滩上抽烟喝酒。
You know, don't go off, you know, don't go off to Thailand or something to smoke pot on a beach.
你得找份正经工作。
You know, get a decent job.
去理个发吧。
Get a haircut.
就是这种态度。
It's that kind of attitude.
是达尔文的叔叔看出了这个机会，觉得再合适不过了，完全契合达尔文的所有兴趣。
And it's it's Darwin's uncle who recognizes the opportunity that this rep you know, that that this presents and how perfect it is and how absolutely wonderfully it maps onto all Darwin's interests.
于是他大力推动，达尔文的父亲最终松了口。
And so he basically kinda pushes it, and Darwin's dad is is one round.
下一个问题是，达尔文急匆匆赶到伦敦去见菲茨罗伊，对方却说：‘我刚把这职位给了一个朋友。’
The next problem is Darwin goes rushing down to London to meet Fitzroy who says, oh, I've offered it to a friend of mine.
抱歉。
Sorry.
不过呢，你排在下一位。
But, you know, you're next in line.
达尔文一下子陷入了绝望，痛苦至极。
And Darwin is thrown into despair, absolute misery.
他早就下定决心要去了。
He'd kind of completely committed himself to going.
可第二天，菲茨罗伊又来了，说他那个朋友不想去。
And then the next day, Fitzroy comes around and says, my friend doesn't wanna
了。
do it.
哦，
Oh,
来吧。
come.
这一切都发生在伦敦。
And this is and this is all this is all in London.
当时正值威廉四世加冕，整个社会正经历一场剧烈的政治动荡。
It's all against the backdrop of the coronation of William the fourth and this kind of great convulsive political debate
是的。
Yeah.
关于改革是否该推进。
About should reform go through.
那是个充满巨大激情的年代，当时辉格党和托利党之间的分歧格外尖锐。
So it's a time of of of immense excitement, and it it's a time where, disagreements between Whigs and Tories would be at their most electric.
你可以想象，一个脱欧派和一个留欧派被迫一起在船上待上五年。
So it's, you know, it's kind of like imagining a Brexiteer and a a and a Remainer having to go on a ship for five years together.
奈杰尔·法拉奇和A.C.格雷林。
Nigel Farage and AC Grayling.
对。
Yes.
没错。
Exactly.
这简直是个绝佳的电视剧题材。
It's a great it's a great TV show in that.
但我觉得，可能是因为达尔文特别想去，而菲茨罗伊也特别希望有人陪他，所以才有了这个结果。
But I I I think maybe because because Darwin is so desperate to go, maybe because Fitzroy is so desperate to have, you know, someone go with him Yeah.
双方都愿意放下分歧，达成一致，最终决定让达尔文同行。
Who wants to go, they they basically they they kind of agree to get on with each other, and and it's agreed that Darwin will go.
这整个事情真是让人兴奋不已。
So that's all very exciting.
现在达尔文得开始准备了。
So Darwin now has to get ready.
他得把自己方方面面都准备好。
He has to ready himself.
他跑遍英国，向朋友们道别，还拜访了不少学者，向他们请教专业知识。
So he he hairs around England saying goodbye to all his friends, talking to various scholars who can kind of provide him with expertise.
他还买了一台当时最先进的显微镜。
So he he he buys the most up to date microscope.
他买了最好的猎枪，毕竟在自然史研究里，关键一步就是猎杀动物、剥皮、再做成标本。
He buys the best shotguns because, of course, a crucial part of natural history is shooting animals, skinning them, and then stuffing them.
所以，在当时，标本剥制是自然科学中至关重要的一环。
So taxidermy is a is a vital part of of natural history at this point.
他买了一本《地质学原理》，这是查尔斯·莱尔的第一卷著作，这本书极具开创性，主张地球的形成并非像《圣经》所说的那样由洪水或末日灾难造成，而是由极其缓慢、极其深远的地质过程塑造的。
He invests in a copy of the principles of geology, which is the first volume by Charles Lyell, which is this kind of groundbreaking text which argues that rather than the earth having been shaped by, you know, floods and apocalypses as the bible suggests, that actually the processes of geological change are incredibly, incredibly slow, incredibly, incredibly profound.
在接下来五年的航行中，这一点对达尔文至关重要，因为他会不断思考，变化的过程究竟可以多么深远。
And this will be very, very important for Darwin over the course of the five year voyage because he will be reflecting on just how profound the processes of change can be.
他自然地把地质学中的这些原理应用到自然科学中，这成为他后来提出进化论的关键基础。
And, obviously, he starts applying these principles from the field of geology to that of natural history, and that's kind of crucial part of of what will inform his his theory of evolution.
他把所有东西都准备妥当后，菲茨罗伊带他去查看小猎犬号。
So he's he's getting all his stuff together, and he he gets taken by by Fitzroy then to go and look at the Beagle.
他们从伦敦出发，
So they go from London.
坐上一艘蒸汽船，沿着肯特郡和南海岸航行，最终抵达德文波特。
They go on a kind of steam packet around Kent along the South Coast, and they arrive at Devonport.
而就在那里，达尔文的信心再次受到打击——小猎犬号居然小得惊人。
And this is where the the kind of the next blow to Darwin's confidence comes because the Beagle turns out to be really tiny.
那到底有多大？
So how big?
猎犬号有多大？
How how big is the Beagle?
我这儿记下来了。
It is I've noted it down here.
让我看看。
Let me see.
长九十英尺，宽二十四英尺，不算大。
It's 90 feet by 24, And Not that.
只有两个小船舱，还得共用一个。
Are are two cat two tiny cabins, one of which, you know, which they will have to share.
达尔文个子挺高的。
And, basically, Darwin's quite a big man.
他挤进吊床里都挺费劲的。
So he's difficult to get cram himself into the hammock.
所以他心里盘算着，两年，三年吧。
So he's kinda thinking, oh, you know, two years, three years.
对。
Yeah.
我真的愿意干这个吗？
Do I really want to do this?
他犹豫了几天，后来一想，不行。
And he kinda havers for a couple of days, and then he thinks, oh, no.
真该死。
Damn it.
当然得去。
Of course, I do.
然后他又跟以前一样充满干劲了。
And then he becomes as enthusiastic as ever.
日子一天天过去。
And the months go by.
他一直在到处奔波，筹备所有装备。
He's been rushing around, sourcing all his gear.
他得赶到普利茅斯，船从那儿启航，原定十一月五号出发，就是盖伊·福克斯日。
He's got to arrive in in Plymouth, which the ship is going to sail from, and they're due to sail at on the November 5, so Guy Fawkes Day.
但达尔文在十月二十四号就到了。
But Darwin arrives there on the October 24.
天气糟透了，风暴一阵接一阵。
Absolutely terrible storms.
风一直刮个不停，出发日期只好一再推迟。
They just kind of blow and blow and blow, and the the leaving date has to be canceled.
整个十一月都刮着这么猛烈的风。
And they just blow all the way through November.
到了十一月二十一号，船上七十三个人里，有个水手被吹下海，淹死了。
And then on the November 21, one of the sailors so there are there are 73 people in all are going, and one of them gets blown overboard and drowns.
达尔文当时彻底崩溃了。
And Darwin has a kind of massive panic attack.
而且你知道，从那以后，达尔文一生都容易突然恐慌，还总是被一些奇怪的胃部不适困扰，这种状况伴随了他一辈子。
And, you know, later all through his life, Darwin will be prone to panic attacks, these kind of strange, stomach complaints that grip him all the way through his life.
这算是他恐慌发作的早期表现了。
And this is kind of early onset of it of his panic attacks.
他心想：我真该去吗？
And he's like, oh, should I do it?
我真的该去吗？
Should I do it?
但他又想，当然，我必须去。
But, again, he thinks, of course, I've got to do it.
我必须去。
I've got to do it.
终于到了12月10日，天气放晴，菲茨罗伊说：好了。
Finally, December 10, there's a clear day, and Fitzroy says, okay.
我们等吧。
We're gonna wait.
走吧。
Let's go.
走吧，各位。
Let's go, boys.
他们都登船了，驶入了海峡。
They all board, sail out into the channel.
天气糟糕透了。
Terrible, terrible weather.
达尔文发现，自己根本受不了风暴。
And Darwin discovers that he can't cope with with storms.
天哪。
God.
他在船舱里吐得一塌糊涂。
And it's projectile vomiting all across his cabin.
这可是菲茨罗伊啊。
Well, it's Fitzroy.
我把他打发走了。
I got rid of him.
我的意思是，他这个人特别难搞。
I mean mean,
这真是太糟糕了。
it's it's awful.
要是有两间船舱就好了，这可是一艘九十英尺的船啊。
If only there are two cabins, a 90 foot ship.
你最不想遇到的就是那种个子高大、还不会挂吊床的人。
I mean, the last person you want is like a a big man who doesn't hammock.
是啊。
Yeah.
根本躺不下的人。
Who doesn't fit
吊床里容不下他？
in the hammock?
谁容易
Who gets
晕船。
seasick.
还一直唠叨脱欧的事。
And also banging on about Brexit.
对。
Yes.
他倒没一直唠叨，因为情况正好反过来。
He's Well, not banging on about because it's the other way around.
他是那个坚持留下的人。
He's the he's the remainer.
他是右派。
He's the Right.
他一直在念叨《大改革法案》。
He's banging on about the Great Reform Act.
是的。
Yes.
但他并没有。
Well, he's not.
他老是讲地质啊之类的东西，而菲茨罗伊对这些很感兴趣。
He's banging on about geology and stuff, which which Fitzroy is interested in.
总之，第二天天气太糟了，菲茨罗伊只好掉头返航。
Anyway, so the next day, it's the weather's so bad that Fitzroy turns around and they go back.
达尔文把衣服洗了，船舱也彻底打扫了，大家一致决定把晕船的事儿忘掉。
And Darwin has his clothes washed, you know, the cabin is scrubbed, and, they all agree to forget about the seasickness.
二十一号，又是晴朗的一天。
Twenty first, another clear day.
于是菲茨罗伊说，行吧。
So Fitzroy says, okay.
咱们出发吧。
Let's go.
咱们出发吧。
Let's set off.
他们启程了。
They set off.
天气很平静。
The weather's is calm.
达尔文去睡觉了。
Darwin goes to bed.
他扭着身子，先把屁股塞进吊床里。
He fits himself, squeezes himself, ass first into his hammock.
他睡了个好觉。
He has a good night's sleep.
对。
Right.
他醒来了。
He wakes up.
他伸手去拿指南针，仔细一看，惊愕地发现他们正在往英国方向航行。
He he reaches for reaches for his compass, studies it, and to his consternation realizes that they're sailing back to England.
原因是一个可怕的风暴正在逼近，正从海峡席卷而来。
And, the reason for this is that a terrible new storm is approaching them, sweeping down the channel.
于是他们停靠在普利茅斯，风暴袭来，整个克里特岛的圣诞节都过得糟透了，因为看起来他们根本没法再启航了。
So they dock in Plymouth, the storm comes in, and all over Crete, they have a miserable Christmas because it looks like they're never going to set sail.
直到二十七号那天，他们终于再次出发。
And then finally, on the twenty seventh, off they set.
他们驶入比斯开湾，一路向南。
And they they head out and they they get into the Bay Of Biscayne.
比斯开湾的天气糟糕透顶。
And the Bay Of Biscayne, terrible, terrible weather.
达尔文日复一日地晕船，但他们还是继续向南航行。
Darwin is just kind of sick day after day after day, but they keep heading southwards.
他们穿越了赤道。
You know, they cross the Equator.
他们抵达了南美洲。
They reach South America.
他们来到了火地岛。
They reach Tierra Del Fuego.
他们到达了加拉帕戈斯群岛。
They reach the Galapagos Islands.
他们穿越了太平洋。
They cross, the Pacific.
他们这次航行持续了五年。
They had five year voyage.
他们回到英国时，达尔文带回来了大量标本——从南美收集的蝴蝶、巨型地懒的骨骼、美丽的羽毛，还有各种各样的东西。
They come back to England, and Darwin comes back loaded down with all kinds of specimens of butterflies and the skeletons of giant ground slothes that he's picked up in South America and beautiful feathers and all kinds of things.
但最重要的是，他带回了那些最终会成形的理论和想法。
But above all, he's come back with the thoughts theories that will come yeah.
一个将改变世界的观念。
An idea that will change the world.
非常好。
Very good.
汤姆，我真不敢相信，这件事让我看清了，你居然没读过帕特里克·奥布莱恩的奥布雷和马图兰系列小说，真是太傻了。
Tom, I cannot believe that that what this confirms to me is how foolish you are in not reading those Aubrey, Matyaran novels of Patrick O'Brien.
嗯，我是因为……
Well, I so so because
你讲的这个故事，简直就是帕特里克·奥布莱恩写的。
you tell that story, it's pure Patrick O'Brien.
那我看过一部电影，叫什么来着？
Well, so the film which I saw what what's it?
《怒海争锋》。
Master and Commander.
对。
Yeah.
电影里那个不是罗素·克劳演的角色，是保罗·贝坦尼演的，我觉得他明显是以达尔文为原型的，因为他们也……
The the the guy the one played by the one who's not Russell Crowe, by Paul Betony, is is seem to me pretty clearly modeled on Darwin because they go
算是吧。
sort of yeah.
他们去了加拉帕戈斯群岛，对吧？
They go to the Galapagos Islands, don't they?
对。
Yes.
没错。
Do.
我觉得，那段关系——我是说，因为《贝格尔号航行记》是一本很棒的书。
And the relationship, I think I I I imagine I mean, because The Voyage of the Beagle is a great book.
你知道，他把这段经历写了下来。
You know, he writes it up.
菲茨罗伊也写过一份记录。
Fitzroy writes an account as well.
我猜，这些内容很可能在《马尔伯勒》背后隐隐存在着。
I imagine that that must perhaps be lurking in the background of Maybe.
这些小说里。
Of those novels.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，故事背景设定得晚一些，但也没差太多。
I mean, they're set a bit later, but not that long.
我的意思是，这
I mean, it's
我觉得两次事件之间大概隔了三四十吧，你说是不是？
Well, it's sort of thirty, forty years between the two events, I suppose, isn't it?
对。
Yeah.
而且你知道吧，我觉得他们在拉普拉塔河那边遭到了射击。
And and, you know, there's kind of they they get fired at, I think, in the river plate.
英国皇家海军当时就在那儿，盯着英国的商业利益，结果他们就被开了枪。
The Royal Navy is there, kinda keeping an eye on British commercial interests there, and this they they get shot at.
你知道的，达尔文，是吧。
You know, Darwin yeah.
我觉得这里有个可能性，你不妨把新年目标定为
I think I think there's kind of possibility there that I think you should make New Year's one
再试一次。
of your New Year's resolutions Well to have another stab at
也许吧。
the Well, maybe.
毕竟，菲茨罗伊和达尔文之间的关系后来变得非常紧张，因为他们第一次大吵就是关于奴隶制的问题。
I mean, the the relationship ultimately between Fitzroy and Darwin does become quite combustible because, actually, the first huge row that they have is about slavery.
菲茨罗伊支持奴隶制。
Fitzroy is a defender of slavery.
明白了。
Right.
达尔文呢，他家是废奴主义者的家庭。
Darwin, of course, he comes from a family of abolitionists.
他对此感到震惊。
He's appalled by that.
这本书里有很多有趣的地方，值得深入探讨。
So there's there's there's all kinds of kind of fascinating dynamics, fascinating kind of aspects to that book.
我们确实应该好好读一读。
Should we should definitely love.
对。
Yeah.
关于这个话题，我参考的那本权威著作是阿德里安·德斯蒙德和詹姆斯·摩尔合写的《达尔文传》，这不仅是关于达尔文最好的传记。
It's a really and and and the book to read on it, which I got all the information from this, is Biography of Darwin by Adrian Desmond and James Moore, which is not just the best biography of Darwin.
它堪称有史以来最出色的传记之一。
It's one of the the great, you know, all time biographies.
这本书非常出色。
It's a wonderful book.
所以我觉得我们真该好好读一读。
So I think we should definitely look to do that.
非常好。
Very good.
好的。
Alright.
行吧。
Okay.
这倒是个愉快的收尾。
Well, that's a jolly note on which to end.
得多读点书。
Lots of reading.
而且确实如此。
And Yeah.
我希望这期节目能让你庆幸自己没有被困在
And I hope that that's the kind of episode that makes you glad that you're not on a a
狭小的
a cramped in a cramped
还有在比斯开湾的小船舱里。
and tiny cabin in the Bay Of Biscuit.
是的。
Yeah.
因为等这期节目播出时，我们可能已经处于某种封锁状态了。
Because, of course, by the time this goes out, we may be in some form of lockdown.
对。
Yeah.
有可能。
We may be.
所以，
Because so,
你知道，不管情况多糟，你至少不会像达尔文在小猎犬号上那样，病得直往你脸上凑。
you know, no matter how grim it is, you're not on the beagle with Darwin being sick in your face.
所以说，情况总归是不一样的。
So, you know, swerves around.
喷射性呕吐
Projectile vomiting.
是的
Yeah.
没错
Right.
明天我们继续聊聊圣诞节十二天或十三天里更多有趣的纪念日。
We will see you tomorrow for more exciting anniversaries in the twelve days or thirteen days of Christmas.
再见。
Goodbye.
拜拜。
Bye bye.
感谢收听《TheRestHistory》。
Thanks for listening to TheRestHistory.
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就是 restishistorypod.com。
That's restishistorypod.com.
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