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马利一开始就已经死了。
Marley was dead to begin with.
这一点毫无疑问。
There is no doubt whatever about that.
他的葬礼登记表上签了牧师、助理、殡葬师和首席哀悼人的名字。
The register of his burial was signed by the clergyman, the clerk, the undertaker, and the chief mourner.
斯克鲁奇也签了名。
Scrooge signed it.
斯克鲁奇的信誉极好，他签过字的任何票据都畅通无阻。
And Scrooge's name was good upon change for anything he chose to put his hand to.
老马利死得透透的，跟门钉一样。
Old Marley was as dead as a doornail.
好了，大家圣诞快乐。
Well, happy Christmas, everybody.
那是多米尼克，当然，他在朗读《圣诞颂歌》的开篇。
That was Dominic, of course, reading the opening to A Christmas Carol.
多米尼克，现在离圣诞节就快到了。
And, Dominic, here we are just before Christmas.
专业水准。
Professional quality.
还有什么比亲自走上我们这座伟大首都的街头更应景的呢？
And what could what could be more festive than to actually be out and about in the streets of this great capital of ours?
我站在这儿，看到一块牌子上写着：摩托车手请勿发动引擎。
So I stand here, and I see a sign that says, motorcyclists, please do not start your engines.
在不懂行的人眼里，汤姆，这儿看起来就像个废弃的院子。
We're standing in a well, to untutored eyes, Tom, would seem like a a sort of just a deserted yard.
但你会告诉我，你为什么把我从那里拉出来。
But you're going to explain why you dragged me from
从科茨沃尔德一路赶来。
the way from the Cotswolds.
你这个霍比特人，居然从科茨沃尔德一路跑到伦敦的心脏地带。
You're you're hobbit all in the Cotswolds all the way down into the very heart of London.
我得说，你这副样子真是满溢着节日的喜庆气息。
And I have to say that you are looking absolutely full of festive fare.
没错。
Right.
我进咖啡店的时候，脸黑得跟暴风雨前一样，那时候录音还没开始。
My my face like thunder as I walked into the coffee shop before the recording started.
你走过来的时候，一群调皮的孩子用雪球把你礼帽都打掉了。
As you were walking here, Ragamuffins were knocking your top hat off
雪球砸的。
with snowballs.
他们一眼就看出你脸上那副像斯克鲁奇似的表情。
They they they could tell the the Scrooge like expression on your face.
精神饱满，满是圣诞的欢乐气氛。
Full of crisp full of Christmas cheer.
没什么比在疫情肆虐的时候，被汤姆·霍兰德叫来伦敦更让我开心的事了。
There's nothing I like more than being summoned down to London by Tom Holland with the pandemic raging.
没错。
Exactly.
我们现在所在的地方叫纽曼巷，就在康希尔街旁边，而康希尔是伦敦金融城的主要街道之一。
Well, we so we're we're in we're in a place called Newman Court, which is just off Cornhill, and Cornhill is one of the main roads in the City Of London.
它从英格兰银行一直延伸到利德贺市场。
It leads from the Bank of England up towards Leadenhall Market.
但我们之所以来这里，是因为根据现有信息，纽曼巷最有可能是斯克鲁奇的会计室所在地。
But the reason that we're here is that insofar as we can tell, Newman Court is the likeliest place for Scrooge's counting house.
斯克鲁奇当然是《圣诞颂歌》里的核心人物，我觉得这应该是最经典的圣诞故事。
So Scrooge, obviously, the central character in A Christmas Carol, the kind of definitive canonical Christmas text, I I think.
可能是被改编得最多的圣诞故事。
Probably the most adapted Christmas.
没错。
Definitely.
说实话，这可能是英语世界里，甚至全世界被改编得最多的故事。
Well, mean, probably the most the most adapted story in English maybe in the world.
是的
Yeah.
除了耶稣诞生的故事之外
Apart from the nativity itself.
对
Yeah.
除了那个之外
Apart from that.
是的
Yeah.
这又是一个虚构的故事
It's another word of fiction.
由查尔斯·狄更斯于1843年12月撰写并出版
So written in published in December 1843 by Charles Dickens.
据说也是在同一年，圣诞贺卡首次出现
The same the same year apparently as Christmas cards were first sent.
是吗？
Is that right?
所以，没错，那真是维多利亚时代圣诞节的丰收之年。
So, yeah, it's it's it's a great year for the Victorian Christmas.
真是非常重要的一年。
Very big year.
当然，早在《圣诞颂歌》出版之前，圣诞节对维多利亚时代的人来说就已经开始慢慢流行了。
Well, of course, Christmas has sort of been in the a little bit for the Victorians for a few years before Christmas Carol comes out.
说起来真有意思，汤姆，你知道狄更斯当时多大吗？你记得不？
You know, the amazing thing actually, Tom, you know how old Dickens obviously, you do know how old he was when he Remind me.
31岁。
31.
对。
Yeah.
31岁，那时候他已经写了六本书了。
31 and he'd already written six books.
我觉得狄更斯写这本书的时候，正如你所说，还很年轻。
Well, I I mean, I think the thing about Dickens so when he's writing this, as you say, he's a young man.
当你读到他是怎么写出《圣诞颂歌》的，就像狄更斯的几乎所有细节一样，最让人震撼的是他那惊人的活力。
I I mean, when you read about how he came to write Christmas Carol, what impresses you, as almost every detail of of of Dickens always does, is the unbelievable sense of energy.
是的。
Yeah.
那种活力简直可怕，近乎魔性。
I mean, of terrifying, almost demonic level of energy.
他只用了六个星期就写完了《圣诞颂歌》，写作时还会又笑又哭。
Because as he he it took him six six weeks to write Christmas As he wrote it, he would kind of laugh and cry Yes.
对。
Yes.
而且
And
每当写到特别动情的地方，他就会笑嘻嘻地在房间里又蹦又跳。
grin and prance around the room whenever there was any particular But
他晚上还经常散步，对吧？
he's also doing these walks at night, isn't he?
他每天走十五到二十英里，就在伦敦城里转悠。
He's walking 15 to 20 miles So he walks around London.
然后他还通过散步放松，有时候一走就是五十英里，横跨整个城市。
And then he relaxes by going for, yeah, for 50 mile walks across across the city.
他确实很不一般，但部分原因是他需要钱。
So He's sort of extraordinary, but he he does it partly because he needs money.
他已经写过几本很有名的书了。
So he's written he's had some quite big name books.
比如《匹克威克外传》《雾都孤儿》《尼古拉斯·尼克尔贝》。
So Pickwick Papers, Oliver Twist, Nicholas Nickleby.
但他最近的一本书，《马丁·查尔斯·狄更斯》，
But his most recent book, Martin Charles Dickens,
已经
has been
有点失败。
a bit of a failure.
我觉得他妻子又怀孕了。
His wife, I think, is expecting another baby.
他的出版商已经明确告诉他，不再继续合作了。
His publishers have basically told him they're him.
是的。
Yeah.
他们说，除非他明显改进、提升作品质量，否则就要降低稿酬。
They've told him they're gonna pay him less unless he basically improves and ups his game.
所以很明显，选圣诞节很合适，因为他知道，在这个典型的维多利亚时代中产家庭环境中，很多人对圣诞节这个家庭节日很感兴趣，也想重新找回一些已经消失的传统。
So obviously Christmas makes sense because he knows in this kind of domesticated Victorian world, middle class world, there are lots of people who are interested in Christmas as a kind of family holiday and are interested in kind of reviving some of the traditions that have been lost.
因为这需要花很多功夫。
Because that's a lot of work.
《圣诞颂歌》是在创造并复兴圣诞节的传统。
A Christmas Carol it's it's inventing and reviving Christmas traditions.
圣诞节对狄更斯来说特别重要。
And Christmas seems to be incredibly important to Dickens.
从一开始，他的《博斯速写》——那是他最早的作品——
So right from the beginning, his sketches by Boss, his very first work.
里面就有一整篇是讲圣诞节的。
There's a whole you know, one of the sketches is of Christmas.
还有他最后一部未完成的小说，《艾德温·德鲁德之谜》，
And right, you know, The Mystery of Edwin Drood, which is his last unfinished novel.
故事里发生了一起谋杀案，
There's a kind of a murder that takes place
是的。
Yes.
而且偏偏就发生在圣诞节那天。
Actually on Christmas.
所以这个主题贯穿了他整个创作生涯。
So there's it's a theme that runs right the way through.
我想说的是，大家一提到狄更斯的心理，总会回到那段创伤经历。
And I guess that, you know, I mean, people always, when they talk about Dickens' psychology, they always go back to the trauma.
就是那个鞋油厂。
The blacking factory.
你知道的，就是那家核心的鞋油厂。
The black you know, central blacking factory.
他父亲进了债务监狱。
His father goes to a debtor's prison.
那种超越中产阶级家庭舒适生活的感觉。
The sense in which beyond the, you know, the comforts of a middle class household.
对。
Yeah.
也就是无知和匮乏，这两个孩子，是圣诞未来幽灵展示给主角看的，嗯，那种
Well, ignorance and want, who are the the the two children who the ghost of Christmas future shows to Well, the sort
温馨感，汤姆，我觉得狄更斯笔下的圣诞节是依赖于黑暗背景的。
of coziness, Tom, I think, Dickens and of Christmas depend upon the darkness.
没错。
Absolutely.
你知道，屋里炉火正旺，可外面寒风呼啸，大雪纷飞，诸如此类。
You know, have the fire is is burning in the grays and stuff, but outside the the wind is howling, the snow is coming down or whatever.
这两种元素都得有，才行。
You need both Yeah.
圣诞故事要想打动人，就得两者兼具。
For the sort of Christmas stories to really work.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得《圣诞颂歌》之所以这么成功，原因是什么呢？
And I I think that A Christmas Carol just, I mean, why is it so successful?
我觉得，它在某种程度上呼应了原始圣诞故事的节奏。
I think, I mean, it it kind of partly does echo the kind of the rhythms of the original Christmas story.
比如有三位访客，就像当年的三位智者一样。
So you have three visitors rather than like you have, you know, the three kings.
斯克鲁奇去探望小蒂姆，那个孩子
Scrooge goes to visit Tiny Tim, the little
是的
Yeah.
就像牧羊人和三博士去探望婴儿耶稣一样
Little child rather like the the shepherds and the three kings go to visit the baby Jesus.
所以它巧妙地借鉴了这个模式，却并不显得生硬
So it it kind of brilliantly riffs on that without making it too obvious.
但我认为它还有
But I think it is also
也带有一点童话色彩
bit of fairytale quality too though.
确实充满童话感
Absolutely fairytale quality.
但同时，它也深刻反映了穷人生活的残酷现实
But it that there is it is also rooted in an absolute sense of how brutal life can be for the poor.
狄更斯在写这部作品之前，有两件亲身经历可能影响了他。
So the two two episodes in Dickens' life just before he writes it that might have influenced him.
一件事是他1842年去了美国，也就是他写作的前一年。
One is he he's gone to America in 1842, so the year before he writes Yeah.
我的儿子丘吉尔。
My son Chuzzlewit.
对。
Yeah.
他去了匹兹堡的一所监狱。
And he goes to this penitentiary in Pittsburgh.
没错。
Yes.
他走进一间牢房，写信给朋友约翰·福雷斯特，说：我走进那间牢房时，突然被一个可怕的念头击中了。
And he goes into a cell, and he he writes to his friend, John Forrester, and he says, I I went into the cell and I was struck by the terrifying thought.
如果这个囚犯真的被幽灵造访了，会怎么样？
What if the convict in this cell is visited by ghosts?
你知道吗，如果这是惩罚的一部分的话。
You know, if that's part of the punishment.
对。
Yeah.
显然，这个想法一直在他脑子里盘旋。
And that's obviously a kind of idea that's playing with him.
还有一件事，他去了一所位于萨夫伦山的破旧学校，那地方就在他家附近、高架桥边上，你知道的。
And the other is that he goes to a ragged school that's been set up in Saffron Hill, which is it's kind of by home and viaduct, very, you know Yeah.
现在那儿可是高档地段了。
Swanky area now.
所以那 basically 就是给街头流浪儿童办的学校，对吧？
But So that's basically a school for urchins, isn't it?
是的。
Yeah.
但那时候那儿完全是贫民窟，费金就是在那里跟一群小偷混在一起的。
But but it was absolute slum in this It's where Fagans hangs out with all the the pickpockets in all of
还有，斯克鲁奇。
its But also, Scrooge.
斯克鲁奇这个角色特别有意思，因为他身上有狄更斯的影子。
So Scrooge is such an interesting figure because there's a bit of Dickens in him.
狄更斯非常有野心。
Dickens is very ambitious.
狄更斯非常在意钱。
Dickens is very concerned about money.
狄更斯害怕孤独，害怕被抛弃。
Dickens is terrified of being lonely and abandoned.
他小时候确实有一段时间失去了父亲。
Obviously, he's lost he lost his father for a time as a boy.
一些狄更斯的传记作者认为，斯克鲁奇这个形象反映了狄更斯对自己性格中两个方面的认识。
And some sort of Dickens biographers have said there's a bit of the portrait of Scrooge is the two sides that Dickens sees in his own character.
一方面是那个只顾工作和金钱的冷硬角色。
There's the sort of hard the guy who's all about work and money.
抠门、干呕、喘气、抓挠、紧攥、贪婪的老家伙。
Squeezing, retching, gasping, scraping, clutching, covetous old sinner.
是的。
Yes.
没错。
Exactly.
而另一边呢，又大方得很，哎呀，去弄只火鸡来吧。
And then there's the sort of open handed, oh, go and get a turkey.
我超爱圣诞节。
I love Christmas.
对。
Yes.
这两种截然不同的特质，正是狄更斯在探索自己内心的两面。
And those those are the two sides of Dickens' own persona that he's sort of exploring here.
好了，咱们聊聊这个地方吧。
Anyway, let's talk about the place.
所以，狄更斯笔下斯克鲁奇的办公室，应该是我们在这本书里最早接触到的地方吧？至少我记得是这样。
So Dickens so Scrooge's Counting House is pretty much it's pretty much the first location, I think, we encounter, isn't it, in the book as far as I remember?
我对《圣诞颂歌》的记忆有点受《木偶圣诞颂歌》的影响，我猜那应该是我最熟悉的版本。
My my memory of of Christmas Carol is slightly colored by the Muppet Christmas Carol Which I'm sure would tell the one I'm most
最熟悉的那个。
familiar with.
我们是怎么知道计账室的具体位置的？就是平安夜斯克鲁奇和他职员鲍勃·克拉奇特工作的地方？
How do we know where where the the address of the counting house where it opens, where Scrooge and his clerk, Bob Cratchit, are working on Christmas Eve?
当然，书里没给确切的地址，但给了不少线索。
I mean, it's not we're not given a precise address, but we're given various clues.
书里说，附近有一座古老的教堂尖塔，那口粗哑的老钟总是从墙上的哥特式窗子里偷偷往下瞧着斯克鲁奇，后来这教堂在云中敲响钟点和刻度时，钟声颤抖，仿佛它那冻僵的脑袋里牙齿在打颤。
So we we are told that nearby there is the ancient tower of a church whose gruff old bell was always peeping slightly down at Scrooge out of a gothic window in the wall, And this church, told, becomes invisible and struck the hours and quarters in the clouds with tremulous vibrations afterwards as if its teeth were chattering in its frozen head up there.
所以关键点在于，那是个哥特式的窗户。
So the key detail there is it's a Gothic window.
明白了。
Okay.
伦敦金融城里，有两三座教堂都有哥特式窗户。
There are, you know, two or three churches in the City Of London with Gothic windows.
不过大部分显然都在大火里烧毁了。
Most of them obviously got incinerated.
没错，
Of course,
那场大火。
in the great fire.
教堂在科恩希尔街，圣迈克尔科恩希尔教堂。
Of the churches is on Cornhill, Saint Michael's Cornhill.
好的。
Okay.
这是个关键细节，因为你还记得鲍勃·克拉奇特吗？是的。
And that's a a key detail because you remember that Bob Cratchit Yeah.
那个职员。他走了。
The clerk He goes.
他问斯克鲁奇，能不能放他一天圣诞假。
He asks Scrooge, could he have, you know, can he have Christmas day off?
斯克鲁奇一开始挺不高兴的，但最后还是答应了，行吧，你去吧。
And Scrooge is kind of very cross about that, but then says, yes, okay, you can.
我们得知，当职员鲍勃·克拉奇特离开斯克鲁奇的办公室时，他围着一条长长的白色围巾，那围巾
And we're told that when the clerk, Bob Cratchit, leaves Scrooge's office, he goes out with the long ends of his white comforter, so his I guess that's his
围巾，其实就是围巾。
Scarf, scarf really.
垂到腰以下，因为他根本没穿大衣。
Dangling below his waist, for he boasted no greatcoat.
他在科尼希尔街尽头的一排男孩中间，顺着坡滑了二十次，庆祝圣诞前夜，然后拼命往卡姆登镇跑，回家玩捉迷藏。
He went down a slide on Cornhill at the end of a lane of boys 20 times in honor of its being Christmas Eve, and then ran home to Camden Town as hard as he could pelt to play at blind man's bar.
这跑得也太猛了。
That's a hell of a run.
确实。
It is.
这可够远的，
And that's quite a two
差不多三英里呢。
or three miles.
是啊。
Yeah.
他虽然冻得发抖，但一出门就充满活力。
He's still but he's obviously full of energy from having sat shivering.
他爬上了那棵大树。
He's climbing the frog.
对。
Yeah.
他爬上了那棵大树。
He's climbing the frog.
木偶。
Muppet
版本。
version.
没错。
Exactly.
顺便说一下，这时候你其实还不知道他就是鲍勃·克拉特基。
So you don't know at this stage, by the way, interestingly, that he's Bob Cratchit.
不知道。
No.
他还没被点名。
He's not named.
是的。
Yeah.
后面才会提到。
That comes later.
所以如果你把这些细节串起来，就能看到教堂，还有鲍勃·克拉特基从办公室出来，在康希尔街上下滑行的情景。
So so if you put those details together, you've got the church, you've got the fact that Bob Cratchit goes out from the office and he slides up and down Cornhill.
对。
Yeah.
根据描述来看，这个地方很可能就是从科尼希尔街延伸出来的一条狭窄昏暗的小巷。
The likelihood is, you know, from the description that it is this place here, which is a a narrow, dark passageway coming off Cornhill.
就像你现在说的，这地方确实一点都不浪漫。
And as you say now, I mean, it's it's a very unromantic spot.
是的。
Yes.
这儿倒是装了几台不错的空调。
There's some good air conditioning units.
不过那些砖墙确实透着一股地道的狄更斯式的阴暗感。
But there's there's a kind of proper Dickensian blackness to some of the brickwork.
没错。
There is.
为了让一些海外听众更清楚，我们该说明一下具体在哪儿。
So just what just for some of our overseas listeners, we should say exactly where we are.
因为我们现在位于伦敦金融城的核心地带，这可不是大多数游客熟悉的伦敦。
Because we're in the heart of the City Of London, which is not the London that most visitors see.
这是老伦敦城。
So the old city of London.
不过，游客们还是会来一些地方。
Well, there are some things that visitors would do.
他们可能会看到一些人。
They might see people.
但通常来说，人们来了都会去西区。
But generally, people come, they see the West End.
是的。
Yeah.
这里跟那个地方不一样。
They see this is this is not that.
这里是他们的金融区。
This is their financial district now.
而且这确实是核心区域，可以说是伦敦最古老的心脏地带。
And and it's the heart I mean, it's the oldest center of London.
所以我们现在站的地方，正是古罗马时期城市广场的遗址。
So we're actually standing on what was the Forum in in the Roman city.
这个知识点真不错。
That's a good fact.
我之前还真不知道。
I didn't know that.
康希尔，顾名思义，就是当年人们用来存放谷物的那座小山。
And Cornhill, obviously, it's a hill on which they saw Cornhill.
整个区域都叫康希尔。
It's all Cornhill.
没错。
Right.
它和针线街平行延伸，而英格兰银行就在附近几处地方。
And it runs parallel to Thread Needle Street And there are a and few of where the Bank of England is.
那些小巷和庭院，是不是都在那儿？
Sort of courts and alleys, aren't they there?
你匆匆走过的时候，根本注意不到它们。
You never notice them when you're rushing past.
它们大多都很古老。
They're often quite old.
是的。
Yep.
维多利亚时代的时候，那儿肯定有不少会计事务所和办公室，也遍布着贫民窟和棚户区。
Sort of Victorian, there would have been, I mean, would have been all sorts of accounting houses, offices, there would have been kind of rookeries and slums across the Yeah.
伦敦金融城的。
City of
我觉得金融城里头的贫民窟和棚户区没那么多。
I I think fewer fewer rookeries and slums here in the city.
也许吧。
Maybe.
是的。
Yes.
因为这里自古以来就是金融中心，只不过那时候都是记账行和会计所。
Because it's, you know, it it is a place as it always has been for finance and But it would have been counting houses.
那时候，钱才是核心。
It would have been money.
跟今天的伦敦差远了，倒更像去某个庞大的中国城市，富人和穷人混杂在一起，人潮汹涌，乱中有序。
Much, I would say, less like the London of today and more like going to some great huge, you know, Chinese city or something where rich and poor jumbled up together, those sort of chaos of people.
不过，你已经开始看到，那些富有的银行家们是怎么分布的了。
I mean, although already, you're starting to get the the way in which it's it's the rich bankers.
所以，斯克鲁奇其实是住在中心地带的，这
So it's Scrooge who lives actually in the center, which
没错。
we'll Yeah.
正如我们后来会发现的那样
As we'll find out
后来鲍勃住得更远一些。
later Bob lives further out.
鲍勃·克拉奇蒂住得更远。
Bob Cratchit lives further out.
所以他本来就够刻薄的了，还非得让他走路，而且——
So he's already mean, he's having to walk, but
这倒是真的。
he's That's true.
得每天通勤。
Having to commute.
不过话说回来，街上还是到处都是流浪儿童和乞丐。
But that said, the streets are still littered with urchins, with beggars.
我的意思是，我们
I mean, we
有很多地方都提到过这一点
have lot there are lots of references to that in
书里提到的。
the book.
是的。
Yeah.
当然了。
Absolutely.
这显然和现在不一样，毕竟我们现在是在工作日，虽然正值疫情期间，但很多地方几乎空无一人。
Which is obviously not the case now because we're here in a working day admittedly in the middle of a pandemic, but the place is practically deserted in many ways,
对吧？
isn't it?
没错。
Yeah.
但那些有钱人背后的景象，却是十足的富裕。
But the back the backdrop is absolutely of wealth for those who have it.
这都是围绕家庭生活的场景，你知道的。
It's a domestic it's, you know, domestically centered.
在那些宏伟豪宅的门后，街上却满是贫困与苦难。
It's it's behind the the doors of grand houses and then out on the streets, there's there's poverty and suffering and
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Absolutely.
好吧。
Alright.
那我们接下来去哪个地方，汤姆？
Well, should we move on to our our next location, Tom?
对。
Right.
鲍勃·克拉奇蒂已经回了卡姆登的家。
So so Bob Cratchit, he's he's gone home to Camden.
是的。
Yeah.
我们得知，斯克鲁奇出去吃了一顿非常阴郁而痛苦的饭。
And Scrooge, we are told, goes out for a rather grim and unhappy meal.
我觉得接下来我们应该去他最可能用餐的地方。
And I think that we should go next to the place where the most likely place
好的。
Okay.
他当时吃饭的那地方。
Where he had this For a
阴郁又难吃的饭。
grim and a happy meal.
一顿阴郁又不开心的饭。
For a grim and unhappy
我很期待。
I look forward to
所以，多米尼克，我们到了班加尔庭院，这也是个很特别的地方，没错。
So, Dominic, we've come to Bengal Court, which is another of these kind of amazing Yeah.
有点像小巷子。
Sort of alleys.
挺像沃伦街的，对吧？
Kind of Warren, isn't it?
对。
Yeah.
有点像沃伦街。
A little Warren.
像是那些小巷子。
Of kind of Allies
还有康希尔街。
and Cornhills.
如果你从康希尔街走过，却没拐进这些沃伦街一样的小路，根本不会知道它们的存在。但我们来这儿，是因为要跟着斯克鲁奇，他刚离开自己的账房。
So if you're walking down Cornhill and you didn't go down these these kind of Warren Streets, you have no idea they were But the reason we've come here is we're we're following Scrooge who has left his counting house.
在《圣诞颂歌》里提到，他总是在那家熟悉的、阴郁的小酒馆里吃他那顿沉闷的晚餐。
And in Christmas Carol, we're told that he took his melancholy dinner in his usual melancholy tavern.
读完所有报纸，又用银行账本打发了剩下的夜晚——这家伙还挺会享受的，然后就回家睡觉了。
And having read all the newspapers and beguiled the rest of the evening with his banker's book, so he knows how to party, went home to bed.
真有桑布鲁克的风格。
Very Sambrook.
这哪像桑布鲁克的样子。
That's that's not very Sambrook at all.
那儿有几家店挺符合的。
So there are a couple of candidates on there.
我们刚才路过好几家客栈。
There are a couple of inns we've walked past.
有辛普森斯那家。
There were Simpsons.
对。
Yeah.
还有一家叫牙买加的老酒馆，或者类似的名字。
There was an old Jamaica or something like that.
牙买加。
Jamaica.
不过我觉得这家是
And but this one, I think, is
乔治与乌鸦酒馆。
The George and the Vulture.
对。
Yes.
他们那儿是不是还放着一尊半身像？
And they have a a bust, don't they?
我们就站在它旁边，没错。
Which we are standing beside Yes.
是那位伟人的雕像。
Of the great man.
顺便说一句，那是狄更斯，不是斯克鲁奇。
And actually, you know That's Dickens, not Scrooge, by the way.
我就像个衣衫褴褛的小孩，把脸贴在窗户上往里看，这场景实在太狄更斯了。
I feel like a ragamuffin pressing my nose to the window and gauge it because it is a very, very Dickensian scene.
桌上摆着一些餐具。
There are kind of tables laid
整个氛围就是那种感觉。
Well, it's all like
都是圣诞专用的玻璃杯。
Christmas glasses.
是啊。
Yeah.
为圣诞节准备的。
For Christmas.
而狄更斯的胸像正俯视着这一切。
And and this bust of Dickens gating out over it.
据说，每年圣诞节前，狄更斯的家人都会聚在这间屋子里，直到今天依然如此。
And, apparently, this is where every year, just before Christmas, members of the Dickens family congregate in a room Even now.
在楼上的房间里为狄更斯本人干杯。
In a room upstairs to toast Dickens himself.
所以，这里自然弥漫着一种狄更斯式的节日气氛。
So, of course, the the the there is a kind of mood of Dickensian jollity here.
但对斯克鲁奇来说，这一切只意味着阴郁和痛苦。
But for Scrooge, this is all about gloom and misery.
他显然在吃一顿孤单的饭，身边一个朋友都没有。
He's, you know, he's obviously having kind of a miserable meal, doesn't have any friends.
今天是平安夜。
It's Christmas Eve.
对。
Yes.
然后他回家了。
And then he goes home.
而且，狄更斯也没告诉我们他家到底在哪儿。
And, again, we don't know you know, Dickens doesn't tell us where his home is.
不过，大概是在科尼希尔街吧，毕竟所有的商行都在那儿，对吧？
But, again, presumably, it's it's it's off Cornhill because all courts, isn't it?
他住在一套曾经属于他已故合伙人的公寓里。
And He lived in chambers, which had once belonged to his deceased partner.
那是一整套阴暗的房间，还有一栋突兀地矗立在院子里的建筑，根本不该出现在那儿。
There are gloomy suite of rooms and a luring pile of building up a yard where it had so little business to be.
你几乎会觉得，这栋房子当年还年轻的时候，跟别的房子玩捉迷藏，结果迷了路，再也找不着出去的路了。
The one could scarcely help fancy it must have run there when it was a young house playing at hide and seek with other houses and forgotten the way out again.
没错。
Exactly.
我们知道，因为后来他确实从街角的贝丁哈尔市场订了一只火鸡。
So we we know because in due course, he will order a turkey from Bedinhall Market, which is just around the corner.
他的办公室就在这儿。
His counting house is here.
他大概吃晚饭的地方也在附近。
His his likely place of supper is here.
所以最有可能的地方是叫白狮巷的地方，同样也在康希尔街附近。
So I think the likeliest candidate is a place called White Lion Court, which again is off Cornhill.
那里有一栋十八世纪的老房子，你刚才读的那段描述也说，这是一栋老宅。
It has an eighteenth century house, and the description you just read, it said, you know, it's an old house.
没错。
Right.
所以我们其实也不确定。
So we, you know, we don't know.
这地方完全是虚构的，但我们还是去一趟吧，因为那里正是马利的脸可能在圣诞夜斯克鲁奇走上台阶时浮现的地方。
It's entirely fictional, but let's go there because that is and and look at the door on which perhaps Marley's face appears as Scrooge goes up the door on Christmas Eve.
我们边走边聊行吗，汤姆？
And can we go can we talk while we're doing that, Tom?
你觉得这样合理吗？
Do you think that's reasonable?
我觉得我们应该聊聊斯克鲁奇。
I think we should talk about Scrooge.
好的。
Okay.
让我觉得有意思的是，斯克鲁奇明显是个让人反感、贪婪又自私的人，但他其实挺可怜的，对吧？
Let's do What strikes me about Scrooge is that he's obviously a sort of repulsive and, you know, grasping and greedy figure, but he's sad, isn't he?
从一开始他就挺孤单的，一个人吃晚饭，还有那可怕的……
Even from the beginning, he's sad having his dinner on his own and Well, there's the awful
不过我们稍微提前了点，当圣诞过去之灵出现，带他回顾往事时，那段描述他独自在学校的场景特别令人心酸。
when when and we're slightly jumping the gun here, but when the ghost of Christmas past comes and shows him his memories, This very sad description of him at his school.
他回了家。
Well, he's gone home.
当然。
Of course.
他一个人坐在书桌前。
And he's alone at his desk
对。
Yeah.
连一个朋友都没有。
With no friends.
我觉得，孤独感是这个故事中非常关键的一部分。
The loneliness is a is a huge part of the story, I think.
我觉得这正是它打动人的一点，因为每个人心里都有一点斯克鲁奇的影子。
I think that's one reason why it appeals because there's a bit of Scrooge.
我们每个人身上，多多少少都有点斯克鲁奇的特质。
There's all of there's a bit of Scrooge in all of us.
那种故意玩世不恭、闷闷不乐，就因为觉得自己孤单、被冷落，或者类似的原因。
That sort of deliberately cynical, miserable because we feel lonely or left out or whatever.
你不觉得吗？
Do you not think?
我的意思是，
Well, I mean
我其实正在想你呢，汤姆。
I'm thinking of you actually, Tom.
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我指的是你。
I'm thinking of you.
我只是想对你好点。
I'm just trying to be nice
对你好。
to you.
就像你说的，多米尼克，有
As you say, Dominic, there's
我们每个人心里都有点斯克鲁奇的样子。
a little bit of Scrooge in all of us.
好了，现在我们得走了。我们刚从雷辛的那片迷宫里出来。
Anyway, so we're we're now I must walk We've come out from the warren of Raisin.
我们要经过圣迈克尔山丘教堂，就是那个有哥特式窗户的地方。
We're going past beneath Saint Michael's Cornhill with the Gothic window.
那是一座很高的塔。
It is a is high tower.
对。
Yep.
这是克里斯托弗·雷恩设计的教堂，雷恩设计的教堂里，这种设计还挺少见的。
That's It's Christopher Wren Church, unusually for a Wren Church.
是的。
Yeah.
它有一些哥特式的窗户。
It has the it has these Gothic windows.
所以它不是那种你传统印象中克里斯托弗·雷恩设计的教堂。
So it's not a Wren Church, like, you know, that you would traditionally expect.
算不上经典之作。
Not a classic.
我们现在又回到了科恩希尔街，
And we're we're back on Cornhill,
继续往前走。背景里有些不错的施工噪音。
and we're walking Some nice drilling in the background.
从英格兰银行沿着康希尔街往上走，直达伦敦全城的最高点，但你根本察觉不到。
Walking up Cornhill from from the Bank of England towards what is the highest point in the whole city of London, but you'd barely know it.
这是伦敦三大山丘之一。
So it's one of the three hills of London.
这哪算得上山啊？
Not really a hill, is it?
简直连坡都算不上。
I mean, it's barely an incline.
塔山、卢德盖特山——圣保罗大教堂就建在上面，还有就是这座康希尔。
Tower Hill, Ludgate Hill on which Saint Paul stands, and this Cornhill.
如今这些庞大的金融大楼把它们全遮住了。
With these colossal kind of financial
没错。
Well, yes.
这些摩天大楼现在把山丘都盖过了。
Towers now overshadowing it.
所以，金钱的语言，我的意思是，它毫无疑问主导了《圣诞颂歌》整个故事。
So so so the language of money, I I mean, it absolutely dominates, obviously, Christmas Carol.
讲的全是英格兰银行、汇票这些事。
You know, it's all about the Bank of England exchange, bills of exchange
对。
Yeah.
账本啊，这类东西全都是。
Ledgers, all that kind of stuff.
当我们一路走向利德贺市场时，头顶上矗立着的，都是斯克鲁奇记账室的后继者。
And as we as we walk up to towards Leadenhall, towering over us are the heirs of
没错。
Well, are.
我的意思是，那里有像……
I mean, there's like The
斯克鲁奇记账室的继承者。
heirs of Scrooge's counting house.
那个是什么来着？
There's the sort of what's that?
那是劳埃德大厦吗？
Is that the Lloyd's Building?
对。
Yeah.
劳埃德大厦就在那儿，
Lloyd's Building is there's
再往前走一点呢？
the Further along?
叫起司刨丝器。
Cheese grater.
那后面是小黄瓜大厦。
We've got the gherkin behind that.
如果你看过那些精心修复过的老影片，比如早期的爱德华时代或二十世纪初伦敦的新闻场景，那时候的人口构成跟现在很不一样。
If you ever watch those fantastic kind of recolorized, you know, sort of newsroom and things kind of early film visions of Edwardian London or early twentieth century London, the demographic mix is very different from how it is today.
那时候要老得多。
It's a lot older.
社会阶层比现在咱们走在这些街上时要丰富得多。
It's a lot more socially variegated than, know, when we walk around these streets.
对。
Yeah.
不过确实只有一种类型
But it is There's only one kind
这里的人群。
of people here.
对。
Yeah.
不过，我是说，我们新年那期节目要讲1922年，对吧？是的。
Although, I mean, we're going to be doing an episode, aren't we, in the new year on 1922 We are.
那是现代性诞生的一年。
As the year in which modernity is born.
而那一年，《荒原》正好出版了。
And that's the year in which The Wasteland is published.
艾略特对那些人描述得特别吓人，
And Elliot gives this kind of terrifying description of
从桥上走过的人群。
The people sweeping across the bridge.
走过伦敦桥的人。
Crossing London Bridge.
是的。
Yeah.
一片死寂。
Dead.
我从没想过死亡竟有如此多的面孔。
I had not thought death had I've done so many.
没错。
Yes.
总之，我们现在来看一个关于斯克鲁奇那栋房子可能的所在地，有好几个地方都挺像的。
Anyway, so we have come to one of the the many candidates for where Scrooge's Oh, house might it's just
太完美了，汤姆。
perfect, Tom.
确实如此。
Yeah.
这地方真的看起来完美无缺。
This genuinely looks absolutely perfect.
这是个叫白狮庭院的地方，那里有一栋老房子。
So it's a white lion court and there is, you know, there's an old house.
现在看起来相当气派。
It's it looks rather rather handsome now.
外墙刷成了鲜艳的紫色。
It's painted in a bright kind of purple.
门口还立着两只狮子雕像。
There are a couple of lions stuck outside.
要是这真是斯克鲁奇的家，肯定没这么喜气洋洋。
So very much cheery than it might have been if this had been Scrooge's house.
你完全可以把它弄得特别阴森，对吧？
Have looked fantastically you could make it look fantastically dreary, couldn't you?
当然可以。
Absolutely.
那这到底是什么房子？
So what is it?
从外观来看，大概是乔治亚风格的住宅。
Probably Georgian house looking judging by the
看那些窗户就知道了。
sort of windows.
八世纪的老房子。
Eight century house.
不过你大概能想象，门上有个门环，那门还微微扭曲着
But you could I guess you could imagine a door knocker on the on those doors and it it kind of warping and and
汤姆，跟我们说说那个门环吧。
So tell us about the door knocker, Tom.
你有那个门环吗？
Do you have that?
斯克鲁奇走过来，敲了敲门，结果看见了马利的脸。
So Scrooge comes up to it, knocks on it, sees Scrooge's sees Marley's face.
马利是他已故的合伙人，他觉得这全是胡说八道，没错。
Marley is his partner who's who's died, and he humbug humbug Yes.
他上楼去，过起了节日。
Goes upstairs and has a festive.
这
This is
这是第一个超自然的迹象，对吧？我们过来的时候，制片人还跟我们说，这也是这个故事如此精彩的原因之一。
this is the first hint, isn't it, of the supernatural that and our producer was saying to us as we were walking over that that's one of the elements that makes this such a great story.
这不只是一个教训。
It's not just the lesson.
这不仅仅是情感上的触动，还真的很吓人。
It's not just the sentiment, but it's also that it's quite scary.
特别有意思的是，现在人们常觉得这是一部儿童故事。
And particularly, it's interesting because now it's often thought of as as quite a children's story.
你甚至能买到企鹅出版社的儿童经典版，而且多亏了木偶剧，它渐渐成了家庭共赏的节目，你知道的，确实如此。
So you can buy it as a puffin children's classic, and obviously, thanks to the Muppets, it's become a kind of family, you know Yeah.
某种程度上成了家庭剧，而且……
Sort of family And
还经常被改编成舞台剧和滑稽剧，对吧，确实如此。
it's kind of stages, pantomimes and things, isn't Yeah.
但那时候可不是这样。
But not at the time.
那时候这根本不是写给孩子的故事，对吧？
That it's not a children's story at all at the time, is it?
我的意思是，狄更斯写的时候是冲着成年人去的。
I mean, Dickens is writing for adults.
没错。
Absolutely.
所以，最著名的情节就是，斯克鲁奇晚上睡觉时，听到一阵叮当声和拖拽声。
So so so so famously, Scrooge retires for the night and he hears a clanking and a dragging.
对。
Yeah.
接着，雅各布·马利的鬼魂走进了他的房间。
And into his room walks the ghost of Jacob Marley.
雅各布·马利身后拖着一本本账簿和铁链，还有他长期担任银行家期间所拥有的一切东西。
And Jacob Marley is dragging behind him ledger books and chains and all the appurtenances of his long career as a banker.
也许最让人毛骨悚然的细节是，他的下巴底下和头上裹着一块布。
And perhaps the most chilling detail of all, he has a a cloth wrapped around his underneath his jaw and over his head.
有一次，他把布拿开，他的下巴
And at one point, he removes it, and his jaw
就掉了下来。
drops off.
没错。
That's right.
就像罗布的长矛。
Like Rob's spear.
就像罗布的，对。
Like Rob's yeah.
罗布的长矛后来怎么样了？
What happens to Rob's spear?
所有那些原本固定下巴的肌肉和组织，都在他埋在坟墓里的这段时间里彻底腐烂了。
So all the, obviously, all the muscles and everything that are holding the jaw have have frayed away while he's been in the grave.
这确实非常吓人。
So that's that's that's very frightening.
马利说，我会派三个幽灵来点醒你。
And Marley says, I'm gonna be sending you three ghosts basically to pep you up.
是的。
Yeah.
所以马利是在教你圣诞节的真正意义。
So Marley is teach you the meaning of Christmas.
他就像施洗约翰，对吧？
He's John the Baptist here, isn't he?
他本人并不是使者，但他是那种……
He's not messenger himself, but he's the sort of
可他不就是使者吗？
Well, is the messenger, isn't he?
他是天使。
He's the angel.
来宣告那好消息的。
Announcing the Yes.
就是即将现身的那些幽灵。
The ghosts that are going to come.
不过说到狄更斯对幽灵的看法，我觉得他确实把它们当真了，毕竟他是个十九世纪的人。
But I mean, so so Dickens' attitudes to ghosts, I mean, he does, I think, see them as, I mean, he has he he's a ninth a a nineteenth century man.
他对这些事持怀疑态度。
He's skeptical about them.
表面上看，他根本不信这些玩意儿。
He he he, you know, ostensibly doesn't believe in them.
但从他那段经历——吓得魂飞魄散——就能看出来，
But you could see from the anecdote of him being terrified in in
就是在匹兹堡监狱的那段经历，那可是史上最经典的鬼故事之一。
the Pittsburgh penitentiary, which is one of the great ghost stories ever.
是啊。
Yeah.
太精彩了。
Brilliant.
还有七十年代丹霍尔姆·埃利奥特主演的电视剧版，简直完美。
And actually the seventies TV adaptation with Denholm Elliott, absolutely superb.
狄更斯就像所有维多利亚时代的人一样，对死亡着迷。
But so Dickens is like all Victorians fascinated by death Yeah.
凭记忆，凭着那种灵性的感受
By memory, by the by the the spiritual
而且我觉得，经历过现在的疫情，确实让我们重新回到了死亡无处不在的那个时代。
Well, and and I think that that one of the things about, you know, living through the pandemic at the moment is it does take us back to the kind of world in which death was a constant present Yeah.
在生活中。
In life.
这也是为什么圣诞节对狄更斯如此重要，因为那时街头弥漫着瘟疫，
And that one of the reasons why Christmas is so important to Dickens is precisely that the streets are stalked by pestilence and
是的。
Yes.
那种黑暗与温暖并存的感觉。
There's that thing about the darkness and the cozy.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Yeah.
你需要那种
You need the
黑暗让
the darkness makes
明亮显得更耀眼。
the bright seem all the brighter.
对。
Yeah.
所以莫莉退休了，斯克鲁奇就孤身一人了。
So Molly retires, and Scrooge is left alone.
莫莉说：‘你不相信我，对吧？’
Molly says, you don't believe in me, do you?
斯克鲁奇说：‘我根本不信你。’
And Scrooge says, I don't believe you at all.
‘你不过是一团没消化完的牛肉，一点芥末，一块奶酪渣，或者半生不熟的土豆碎而已。’
You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato.
你身上更像是一堆剩菜，而不是什么坟墓，不管你到底是什么。
There's more of gravy than a grave about you, whatever you are.
与其说是坟墓，不如说是剩菜。
There's more gravy than a grave.
这句话真妙。
That's such a great line.
但这也正是狄更斯的高明之处啊，既怀疑它的存在，又让它显得真实可怖。
But that's, I mean, that's kind of brilliantly Dickensian having his cake and eating it.
一边怀疑它根本不存在，一边又觉得它可怕得要命。
You know, doubting that it exists, and yet it's kind of horrible Yeah.
同时又让人毛骨悚然。
And terrifying at the same time.
于是莫莉退场了，接着三个幽灵出现了。
So Molly withdraws, and then these three ghosts Yes.
来吧。
Come.
首先是圣诞过去之灵。
So the ghost of Christmas past, first of all.
对。
Yeah.
所以我们现在是在深入斯克鲁奇的过去，对吧？
So we're digging into Scrooge's own past here, aren't we?
我想，故事是从你提到的那个震撼场景开始的——斯克鲁奇的场景。
So it starts, I think, with that tremendous scene that you mentioned of Scrooge.
他当时被留在寄宿学校里。
He's basically a boarding school.
其他人都回家过节了。
Everybody else has gone home for the holidays.
只有他一个人孤零零的。
He is on his own.
这种情形
This sort of
一个被朋友遗忘的孤独孩子，独自留在那里。
A solitary child neglected by his friends is left there still.
你看，我之前说斯克鲁奇身上有点像理查德·尼克松的时候，你觉得好笑，但其实就是这样。
And that see, that's the thing that when I said, I know you thought it was hilarious when I said there's bit of Scrooge and all that, it's rather like Richard Nixon.
说真的，理查德·尼克松和斯克鲁奇还真有几分相似。
But Well, Richard Nixon is not unlike Scrooge, actually.
那种被落下、成为唯一没被接走的孩子的感觉，几乎没人不会感同身受。
But that sort of thing of being the one child who's left behind, I mean, there are very few listeners who won't empathize with that.
有些人可能小时候就经历过，派对结束后最后一个被接走之类的。
Some, you know, weren't the last to be picked up after the party or whatever.
这种情节，特别有狄更斯的味道。
And and that's that's very Dickens.
是的。
Yeah.
带他回到黑鞋油工厂那段。
That taking somebody back the blacking factory.
是的
Yeah.
回到他们的童年根源。
To their childhood roots.
一切就是从那儿开始出错的。
That's where it all went wrong.
你知道，你性格里那种刻薄，其实是源于悲伤和孤独，没错。
You know, the mean spiritedness of of your nature is rooted in sadness Yeah.
还有那种孤单感，所有这些因素。
And solitariness and all those things.
对。
Yeah.
然后圣诞过去之灵带我们回顾斯克鲁奇的回忆，那里描绘了一个非常典型的狄更斯式圣诞狂欢场面。
And then the Ghost of Christmas Past takes us through Scrooge's memories, and there is a description of an absolutely kind of classic Dickensian Christmas knees up.
是的
Yeah.
费兹威格先生。
Mister Fezziwig.
费兹威格。
Fezziwig.
在木偶版里，他叫费兹威格。
Or Fezziwig as he is in the Muppets version.
他叫毛毛熊。
He's Fuzzybear.
而且
And
有一幅特别棒的插画，是约翰·利奇画的，描绘了费兹威格先生跳舞的样子。
it's it's a wonderful there's a kind of wonderful illustration by John Leach who did the early illustrations of mister Fezziwig dancing.
费兹威格先生，这叫威尔士假发。
It's called a Welsh wig, mister Fezziwig.
我不明白什么是威尔士假发。
I don't know what a Welsh wig is.
是的。
Yes.
他们奏响了《罗杰·德·科弗利爵士》，那是种英国传统舞蹈。
They they strike up sir Roger de Coverley, which was an English dance
对。
Right.
这个名字来源于《旁观者》杂志里的一个角色。
Named after a character in the spectator.
《旁观者》？
And the spectator?
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
我说的是18世纪早期的《旁观者》，不是鲍里斯·约翰逊当主编的那版。
I I I think the early eighteenth century Spectator rather than the Boris Johnson edited Spectator.
但我一直很好奇，总觉得我的圣诞节少了点什么。
But I've always I've always wondered what you know, I felt that that's a bit that's been missing from my Christmas.
你是想多跳跳舞吗？
You want you'd like to do a bit more dancing?
我想跳一下爵士罗杰·德·科弗利。
I'd like to do Sir Roger de Covelly.
我完全不知道那是什么。
I have no idea what it is.
如果外面有谁
So if anyone out
我现在可不跟你去。
there I'm not gonna go with you now.
如果有听众知道爵士罗杰·德·科弗利是什么样子，麻烦告诉我们一声。
Any any the list any of the listeners out there have any idea what Sir Roger de Covelly sounds like, you know, let us know.
我真想听听看。
I'd love to hear
就是它。
it.
对。
Yes.
如果听众中有谁知道‘Sir Roger de Covelly’是什么样子，欢迎到Discord群聊告诉我们，而且现在访问restishistorypod.com还不算晚，说不定能收到一份理想的圣诞礼物。
Maybe they can let us know on the Discord chat if the members of the restishistorypod An ideal Christmas present, and it is not too late to go to restishistorypod.com.
是的。
Yes.
如果你愿意从寒冷和黑暗中走出来，加入我们
If you want to come in out of the darkness and the cold into our
太棒了。
That's brilliant.
宣传工作。
Promotional work.
我觉得这完全天衣无缝。
I thought that's completely seamless.
真是个十足的守财奴。
Very Scrooge like.
我可是把账本都带来了。
Well, I've got brought my brought my ledgers with me.
没错。
So yes.
换句话说，斯克鲁奇展示了这样一个过程：那个本可能娶妻生子的年轻人，最终却选择娶了账本。
So so, basically, Scrooge has shown the process by which this this young boy who who, you know, he might have married, he might have had a family, but he decides not to because he chooses to marry his ledger books.
没错。
That's right.
因为他的恋人离开了他。
Because his sort of his sweetheart abandons him.
她叫贝拉吗？
Is she called Bella?
是的。
Yes.
是的
Yeah.
她说你更在乎钱，而不是我
She says you care about money more than me
他却说胡说八道
and And he says humbug.
是的
Yeah.
没错
Exactly.
他完全说对了
And he's absolutely right.
于是，圣诞过去之灵带他看完了过去，斯克鲁奇醒来，有点晕头转向，是的
So the the ghost of Christmas, the past goes, Scrooge wakes up, he's well, he's a bit discombobulated Yeah.
但他还是没完全信服
But still not entirely convinced.
接着，圣诞现时之灵出现了。
And then the ghost of Christmas present arrives.
圣诞现时之灵简直太棒了，他现身的时候——
And the ghost of Christmas present is absolutely fantastic because he appears
他就像一个活生生的盛宴。
He's he's like a feast in human form.
没错。
Does.
他是个高大魁梧、满面胡须的男人，但他的王座完全是用节日美食堆成的。
He's he he he's a kind of giant colossal bearded man, but he has a great throne which consists entirely of festive food.
火鸡、鹅、野味、家禽、肉冻、大块的肉排、烤乳猪、长长的香肠、肉馅派、布丁、一桶桶牡蛎、热腾腾的烤栗子、红扑扑的苹果、多汁的橙子、诱人的梨、巨大的十二夜蛋糕，还有冒着热气、香气四溢的潘趣酒，整个房间都被那诱人的蒸汽笼罩着。
So turkeys, geese, game, poultry, brawn, great joints of meat, sucking pigs, long reeds of sausages, mince pies, plum puddings, barrels of oysters, red hot chestnuts, cherry cheeked apples, juicy oranges, luscious pears, immense twelfth cakes, and seething bowls of punch that made the chamber dim with their delicious steam.
这简直就是我心目中的圣诞大餐。
That's my my Christmas dinner.
这正是我想象中桑布鲁克一家过节的样子。
That's exactly how I imagined the Sandbrook household
没错。
Exactly.
在圣诞节期间。
Over Christmas.
是的。
Yeah.
当然了。
Absolutely.
你呢，
You,
手持丰裕之角，为那些街头顽童干杯，正是如此。
with a great horn of plenty, toasting ragamuffins Exactly.
然后呢，
And then
火鸡到处都是，到处都是。
turkeys out left, right, and center
去
to
游泳池。
the pool.
往池子里扔硬币，就是这样。
Throwing shillings to Exactly.
我就是这么想象的。
That's how I imagine.
不管怎样，圣诞现时之灵接着带斯克鲁奇去看发生了什么。
Anyway, so so the ghost of Christmas present then shows Scrooge what's going on.
他们不是去了市场吗？
Well, they go to the market, don't they?
是不是第一个
Isn't it the
人们都聚在一起的那个场景？
first one where people are kind of all?
他们基本上都在买圣诞礼物。
They're basically doing their Christmas shopping.
是的。
Yeah.
而且每个人都挺开心的。
And they're all happy.
是的。
Yeah.
在狄更斯笔下，人人都爱逛圣诞市场。
And everyone in Dickens loves doing Christmas shopping.
对。
Yeah.
这可能性太小了。
It's very, very unlikely.
太不真实了，完全是虚构的。
So very unclausible and fictional.
是的
Yeah.
他们都
They all they all
特别喜欢这个
absolutely adore it.
那些压力很大的人，忙着包礼物，对吧。
The sort of stressed people, like, juggling wrapping paper Yeah.
拼命抢最后几份香肠卷和特易购的商品。
Desperately fighting for the last pigs in blankets and Tesco's.
对
Yes.
然后他见到了自己的侄子，我们之前应该提到过，他来了
And then he is shown his his nephew, who we should have mentioned earlier, had come
来了，是的
in yes.
而且，就像之前说的，你来和我们一起过圣诞节吧？
And And has with previously said, why don't you come and join us for Christmas?
他还说了巴汉博克。
And has said Bahambok.
是的。
Yeah.
他确实说了巴汉博克。
He has said Bahambok.
所以斯克鲁奇让大家都看到，他是个多么刻薄的老顽固。
So Scrooge has shown them all kind of saying what a miserable old stick Scrooge is.
他们是不是玩个游戏，猜猜他是谁？
Well, play some sort of game, don't they, where they have to guess who he
是谁？
is?
对。
Yes.
我算是个动物吧，我想。
I'm a sort of animal, I guess.
一种可怜的老家伙，没错。
A kind of miserable old Yeah.
吓人的生物，怪物。
Terrifying creature, monster.
那个人就是斯克鲁奇。
And it's Scrooge.
斯克鲁奇发现他们背地里嘲笑他时，心里特别难受。
And Scrooge is gutted when he finds out that they're laughing at him behind his back.
接着他们被带到卡姆登，去了鲍勃·克拉特基特家，那里一群克拉特基特孩子正围着一只很小的鹅大吃大喝，还有个特别小的圣诞布丁。
And then they are taken to Camden and to Bob Cratchit's house where all the various Cratchit children are are feasting on a goose, which is a very small goose, and there's a very small Christmas pudding.
但他们心里有圣诞精神，所以很快乐。
But because they have the spirit of Christmas, they're happy.
鲍勃说，从来没见过这么好的鹅。
There never was such a goose, Bob said.
他根本不信世上真有这么一只鹅能被煮出来。
He didn't believe there ever was such a goose cooked.
它的嫩滑、味道、个头和便宜，都让人一致赞叹。
Its tenderness and flavor, size, and cheapness were the themes of universal admiration.
有个叫多米尼克的小孩，你是不是在啤酒广告里跟他一起拍过？
And is there a a particular child, Dominic, who perhaps you've made play with in a advert for beer
在我们的播客里？
on our podcast?
制片人觉得这事儿太搞笑了，因为他自己写的。
To the producers, absolutely hilarious because he writes He wrote it.
不是吗？
Didn't he?
是他写的。
Wrote it.
他写的。
He wrote it.
小汤姆。
Tiny Tom.
我或许会留一瓶啤酒，52号。
I will perhaps save a glass of beer 52.
希望他们能给我们额外报酬，就因为这集广告提到了小汤姆。
I hope they pay us extra for this in in in episode advertising for Tiny Tom.
是的。
Yeah.
所以是小蒂姆。
So Tiny Tim.
小蒂姆其实就跟小内尔差不多，对吧？
So Tiny Tim now Tiny Tim is kind of little Nell, isn't he, really?
对。
Mhmm.
小内尔是《老古玩店》里的角色，她特别出名——我本来不想剧透，但她最后去世了，当时全城人都在为她哭泣，等着那个时刻。
So little Nell was the character in the old Curiosity Shop who had famously I I hesitate to spoil it for people, but she dies, and there had been universal kind of weeping and waiting.
那些刚刚听完《老好奇心商店》四分之三的听众们
So all those listeners who are just just three quarters of the way through the old curiosity
你觉得会有多少这样的听众呢？
How many such listeners do you think there are?
我相信肯定不少。
I'm sure there are lots.
在美国，人们曾经 famously 在码头上翘首以盼
Absolutely ruined the People in America had famously kind of, you know, been at the quayside waiting
下一集的发布 famously 就是这样。
for the next It's famously Yeah.
真是够粗鲁的。
Rude about
小提姆现在有点像那个小角色了。
Tiny Tim is kind of little now.
他是个特别煽情的人物。
He's a sentimental Yeah.
小小的拐杖。
Of little crutches.
他像个殉道者，拄着拐杖，趴在鲍勃·克拉奇蒂的背上。
Martyr figure with his crutches, carried on Bob Cratchit's back.
鲍勃特别能忍，肯定会的。
Bob is incredibly long suffering and will Yeah.
你懂的，他陪着小蒂姆，小蒂姆我觉得他能做到，他带着斯克鲁奇一起。
You know, run with Tiny Tim and Tiny Tim I think can do he takes it Scrooge.
他确实做到了。
He does.
所以斯克鲁奇先生，是他让这一切成为可能，还有他妻子。
So mister Scrooge who made it possible and his wife Yeah.
在木偶版里，猪小姐说：‘要是斯克鲁奇在这儿，我非得给他两耳光不可。’
Who's miss Piggy in the Muppet version says, Scrooge, if he was here, I would give him box his ears or whatever.
对。
Yeah.
而且呢。
And yeah.
但鲍勃真是个特别善良的人。
But Bob is so Bob is such a sort of a fine fellow.
没错。
Yes.
你听不到任何人说斯克鲁奇的坏话。
You won't hear a word against Scrooge.
对。
No.
就连斯克鲁奇也把他当垃圾一样对待。
Even Scrooge hits him like dirt.
而小蒂姆明显是随了他父亲的性子
And Tiny Tim is obviously a chip off the old
因为他那句著名的祝酒词。
block because he has his famous toast.
愿上帝保佑我们所有人。
God bless us all, everyone.
愿上帝保佑大家。
God bless us, everyone.
是的。
Yes.
这真让人感动，汤姆。
It's very moving, Tom.
我觉得这非常感人。
I think it's very moving.
没错。
Yeah.
我
I
我觉得，我年轻时读狄更斯，那时候年轻气盛，满脑子怀疑和不屑，觉得他太感伤了。
think Well, that's that's what I found about Dickens is that that when I was young and I read him, I was, you know, youthful and cynical and contemptuous of his sentimentality.
但现在到了中年，我
Whereas now in middle age, I
我直接哭了出来。
I just sob.
是的。
Yeah.
不是的。
No.
我同意你的说法。
I agree with you.
我变得更能体会其中的情感了。
I I I become far more attuned to it.
我觉得，人们很容易忍不住去调侃狄更斯，而且
I think I think it's almost too tempting to sort of poke fun at Dickens and to
调侃狄更斯。
poke fun Dickens.
去年圣诞节，还在封锁最严重的时候，我读了很多狄更斯的作品，尤其是《双城记》，那是我从上学以后就没再读过的书。
Well, so last last last Christmas in the depths of the lockdown, I I read quite a lot of Dickens, and read A Tale of Two Cities, which I hadn't read since school
没错。
Right.
那时候我根本不喜欢这本书。
When I really hadn't enjoyed it.
结尾真的特别感人。
Oh, that's terribly moving at the end.
太棒了，我读到结尾时简直泪流满面。
It's so good, and I was I was literally in tears at the end.
是的。
Yeah.
我给儿子读过儿童版的《双城记》，
I read the children's version of that to my son,
结果他居然也哭了？
it and was bit like A boyish tear?
那感觉就像，其实也不是。
It was a bit like when no.
他完全不一样，但就像我读《纳尼亚传奇：狮子、女巫和魔衣橱》的时候，有些地方我真有点忍不住。
He was completely different, but was a like when I read The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, there were bits where I kind of
眼泪都快掉下来了。
Choked up.
眼泪都快掉下来了。
Choked up.
我心里想，你怎么了？
I was like, what's wrong with you?
怎么读不下去了？
Why can't you carry on reading?
没有。
No.
不过，还是回到斯克鲁奇身上吧。
Anyway, back so so back to back to to Scrooge.
他被深深打动了。
So he's very moved by this.
是的。
Yeah.
特别担心小蒂姆。
Very worried about Tiny Tim.
你说，小蒂姆能挺过来吗？
You know, is Tiny Tim going to be alright?
对。
Yes.
接着，圣诞现时之灵消失了，最可怕的那个幽灵出现了——圣诞未来之灵。
And then the ghost of Christmas present vanishes, and we we get the appearance of the most terrifying ghost of all, who is the ghost of Christmas to come.
所以他是个
So he's a
有点像J.K.罗琳笔下的摄魂怪，对吧？
sort of a a JK Rowling style dementor, isn't he?
或者像戒灵？
Or a Nazgul?
或者像戒灵。
Or a Nazgul.
是的。
Yeah.
或者说是，
Or Oh,
我想是吧。
I suppose.
我的意思是，他就是死神，对吧？
I mean, he's he's the Grim Reaper, isn't
他是个令人毛骨悚然的存在。
He's a figure of utter dread.
他穿着一身黑袍。
So he's he's black cloaked.
你看不见他的脸。
You can't see his face.
他从不开口说话。
He never talks.
他从不说话，只用行动示意。
He he only never talks, only shows.
不过我觉得我们该聊聊第三个幽灵了。
But I I think that we should we we should talk about the third ghost.
对。
Yes.
别在这儿说。
Not here.
哦。
Oh.
但可以在墓地里说，那儿正是幽灵出现的地方。
But in a graveyard, which is where the ghost Excellent.
我们最后拍了很多
Let's ends up taking lots
背景里不断传来敲打和钻孔的声音，听众可能会觉得奇怪。
of banging and drilling in the background, which the listeners may wonder.
那我们继续前往《圣诞颂歌》朝圣之旅的下一站吧。
So let's head to our next destination on our Christmas Carol pilgrimage.
所以，汤姆，我们现在在哪？
So, Tom, where are we now?
好的。
Okay.
我们到了圣彼得教堂，位于康希尔街，顾名思义，我们还在康希尔这片区域。
We have come to Saint Peter Upon Cornhill, which as the name suggests, we're still we're still in Cornhill.
这座教堂本身，撇开狄更斯不谈，其实非常有意思。
And this church actually, I mean, quite aside from Dickens, is a is a very interesting church.
你要是从康希尔街上走过，根本注意不到它。
You you could walk along Cornhill and barely notice it.
这是因为我觉得，它藏在这一片迷宫般的庭院里。
Well, it's because I think, yeah, it's in one of the it's Warren of this maze of courts.
不过。
But if
是的。
you yeah.
如果你从科尼希尔街走下来，会看到墓地和教堂的背面，据说这是英国最古老的教堂。
So if you come off Cornhill, you know, you you you see the the the graveyard and you you see the back of the church, and this reputedly is the oldest church in Britain.
真了不起。
Amazing.
相传是由那位著名的历史人物——卢修斯国王在公元二世纪建立的。
Supposedly founded by that well known historical figure, king Lucius
对。
Right.
公元二世纪。
In the second century AD.
是的。
Yeah.
我不记得他出现在那里。
I don't remember him in there.
他被比德提到过。
He's well, he's mentioned by Bede
对。
Right.
说是位很早的基督徒，建立了这座教堂。
As as being, you know, a very early Christian who founded this church.
所以很可能。
So that probably
罗马人知道他吗？
Do the Romans know of him?
不太可能。
Unlikely.
可能性不大。
Unlikely.
但约翰·斯托在十六世纪末写伦敦的著作里提到过他，说有一块石碑记载着卢修斯国王建立了这座教堂。
But it's mentioned by John Stowe, who's the great the the the great Tudor writer about London at the end of the sixteenth century, and he cites a tablet claiming that king Lucius had founded this church.
它显然在大火中被毁，后来由雷恩重建。
It was obviously destroyed in the great fire, rebuilt by Wren.
屋顶的风向标是圣彼得钥匙的形状，象征着开启通往天堂的大门。
The weathervane has a key in the the shape of Saint Peter's Key letting people in into heaven.
不过这些都只是题外话。
But, I mean, that's all by the by.
我带你来这儿，是因为斯科鲁奇与三个幽灵经历的最终高潮场景，很可能就发生在这个墓地里。
The reason why I've brought you here is that it is probably in this graveyard that the final climactic scene in Scrooge's experience with the three ghosts occurs.
所以，所以
So So
圣诞幽灵
the ghost of Christmas
过去。
past.
圣诞未来的幽灵。
The ghost of Christmas future.
哦，抱歉。
Oh, sorry.
对。
Yes.
圣诞未来的幽灵。
Ghost of Christmas future.
幽灵展示了可能发生的事，他让斯克鲁奇看到一个伦敦贫民区的收废品的人，正在分拣一位显然已故之人的遗物。
And and the ghost shows what is likely to come, and he shows Scrooge a kind of rag and bone man in a squalid area of London parceling up the goods of an obviously deceased man.
没人关心这些物品。
Nobody cares for them.
没人想要它们。
Nobody wants them.
它们只是被消散了。
They're just being dispelled.
然后他带斯克鲁奇去了城里，那些斯克鲁奇认识的银行家和金融界大人物正走在街上，谈论着某个人的死，语气冷淡得不得了，但他们
Then he takes Scrooge to the city and various bankers and financial luminaries that Scrooge knows are walking a lot through the streets talking about someone who's died in a a tone of absolute kind of But they
他们根本不想去。
didn't want to go.
如果白吃白喝的机会摆在面前，他们才懒得去。
They didn't want to go to the if there's gonna be a free lunch,
对吧？
don't they?
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
没人关心。
No nobody cares.
没人关心。
Nobody cares.
而且一路上，斯克鲁奇一直在问，这人到底是谁？
And that and all the time, Scrooge is saying, who is this person?
我的意思是，他根本不愿承认。
I mean, he's either being Yeah.
真是个谜啊。
Very What a mystery.
他
He
不敢面对那个人可能是谁的可能性。
doesn't want to face up to the possibility of who it might be.
但接着他们去了坎
But then they go to Cam
他们又回了卡姆登，是吧？
they go back to Camden, don't they?
他们去了卡姆登，没错。
They go to Camden Yeah.
然后他们去了克拉奇特家。
And they go to the Cratchit's house.
哦，那场面真惨。
Oh, it's a terrible scene.
小蒂姆还在吗？
Is Tiny Tim still there?
不在了。
No.
小蒂姆已经去世了。
Tiny Tim is dead.
鲍勃刚去看过他的坟墓，对吧？
Bob has just visited the grave, hasn't he?
他说那里绿意盎然，你一定会喜欢，大家都说起他们会怎样怀念蒂尼·提姆。
And he's he says it's very green and you'd like it, and they all talk about how they'll remember Tiny Tim Yeah.
说他真是个可爱的人，从今以后他们会更像基督徒那样行事，当他们
And what a lovely fellow he was, and they'll behave in a more Christian way now when they
炉火旁坐着那些吃着脆饼的人。
And the crunches are are by the fire.
哦，这真是
Oh, it's
挺有意思的。
very funny.
特别特别地，你知道的，
It's very, very Well, you know,
如果你十七岁，会觉得好笑；但如果你是王尔德，
if you're 17, you laugh at this and if you're Oscar Wilde.
但如果你是
But but if you're
再大一点。
a bit older.
是的。
Yeah.
等你有了自己的孩子。
I'm with a child of your own.
没错。
You Yes.
你啊。
You
你确实会爱上这部电影。
do find a movie.
对。
Yes.
当然。
Absolutely.
然后
And then
然后呢
and then
然后呢？
And then?
接着他们来到一扇铁门前，我接着念书里的内容。
Well, then they reach an iron gate, and I shall read from the book.
书上说，他进门之前停了下来，环顾四周。
It says, he paused to look around before entering a churchyard.
就在这里，那个可怜的人——他现在才得知名字的人——躺在地下。
Here then, the wretched man whose name he had now to learn lay underneath the ground.
那是个体面的地方，四周被房屋围住，就像现在一样。
It was a worthy place, walled in by houses as as it is now.
四周被房屋围着，却长满了杂草，可事实并非如此。
Walled in by houses, overrun by grass and weeds, which it isn't.
但杂草丛生，植被的疯长不是生机，而是死亡，把墓地堵得严严实实，肥沃得像饱食过度，这才是真正该有的样子。
But overrun by grass and weeds, the growth of vegetation's death, not life, choked up with too much bearing, fat with repleted appetite, a worthy place.
鬼魂带着斯克鲁奇走进这片墓地，他指着其中一个。
The spirit leads Scrooge into this into this graveyard, and he he he points
汤姆告诉我们。
And Tom tells us.
那座坟墓。
The grave.
告诉我，墓碑上刻着什么字？
Tell us what's written on the grave.
他顺着手指看去，在那座被遗忘的墓碑上，读到了自己的名字。
Well, following the finger, he read upon the stone of the neglected grave, his own name.
狄更斯特意用大写字母写着：埃比尼泽·斯克鲁奇。
And Dickens puts it in capital letters, Ebenezer Scrooge.
你知道埃比尼泽·斯克鲁奇这个名字的来历吗？
Do you know where Ebenezer Scrooge, the name come came from?
不知道。
No.
据说，狄更斯曾经去过爱丁堡的一座墓地，那里埋着一个叫伊本尼泽·斯罗吉的人。
Apparently, Dickens had visited a grave in Edinburgh, I think, by the man called Ebenezer Scroggy.
结果发现他是个
Who it turned out was
特别
a very
特别开朗的人，风流成性，对女性很感兴趣，总爱参加派对，笑口常开。
a very jovial man, a great philanderer, a man with an eye for the ladies and a kind of laugh a minute party goer.
不过还好你没叫他斯罗吉。
But I'm glad you didn't call him Scroogey.
对。
No.
没错。
Yes.
这行不通
That wouldn't work
完全不行
at all.
叫斯克鲁吉太不合适了
Scroogey wouldn't work.
斯克鲁吉
Scroogey.
所以斯克鲁吉醒来后发现，这一切原来都是梦，整个事情就发生在圣诞节当天早上
So so so Scrooge wait so Scrooge wakes up from this, finds that, you know, it's all been a dream and that it's all happened over the course of of Christmas morning.
对
Yes.
他冲着路过的一个男孩喊，问今天是几号
And he calls out to a passing boy, you know, what morn is it?
男孩告诉他，今天是圣诞节早上
And the boy says, it's Christmas morning.
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