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如今我独自漂泊世间，面对茫茫大海。
And now I'm in the world alone, upon the wide wide sea.
但为何我要为他人叹息，既然无人为我哀伤？
But why should I for others groan, when none will sigh for me?
也许我的狗会徒劳地哀嚎，直到陌生人喂它食物，但在我回来之前很久，它就会站在那里把我撕碎。
Perchance my dog will whine in vain, till fed by stranger hands, but long ere I come back again, he'd tear me where he stands.
多米尼克·桑德布鲁克，任何度假时不得不把宠物留在家里的人，都会对这种感觉深有体会。
Dominic Sandbrook, anyone who has to leave behind pets when they go on holiday will be familiar with that sentiment.
担心你出国两周回来后，发现你的狗想把你撕成碎片。
The anxiety of coming back from your fortnight abroad to find that your dog wants to tear you to pieces.
那其实是拜伦勋爵以少年哈罗德的角色写的，关于……
That was in fact Lord Byron writing in the character of child Harold about...
嗯，我们就姑且称之为度假吧。
Well, let's call it a holiday.
那是他在1809年进行的一次出国旅行。
A trip abroad that he made in eighteen o nine.
我们稍后会再回到拜伦的话题，但我们现在讨论度假这个主题，是因为现在是八月中旬。
And we'll come back to Byron, but we're looking at the theme of holidays because we're in the middle of August.
这绝对是度假旺季。
This is absolutely the holiday season.
人们都出国去了。
People are going abroad.
他们忍受着糟糕的航班，诸如此类的事情，就为了出国。
They're braving, you know, terrible flights, all that kind of stuff to get abroad.
我们觉得回顾一下度假的历史会很有趣，就是人们出门旅行、休息放松的历史。
And we thought it would be fun to look at the history of of the holiday, of of people going away, going on trips, having breaks.
我想，从某种意义上说，如果我们追溯它的史前史，拜伦所做的……
And I guess in a sense, if we're looking at the the kind of the prehistory of it, what Byron is doing...
所以他……
So he's...
离开了英格兰。
Leaves England.
他出发去地中海地区，游历了两年。
He heads off for two years going around the Mediterranean.
这非常符合十七世纪末到十八世纪贵族们的做法，对吧？
That's very much what aristocrats are doing throughout the late seventeenth through the eighteenth century, aren't they?
这就是所谓的“大旅行”。
So it's called the the Grand Tour.
我知道你在这方面做了很多功课。
And I know that you've been doing a lot of swatting on this.
你觉得“大旅行”是不是我们今天所说的假期的前身呢？
Would you say that the Grand Tour is the precursor of of what we know today as holidays?
是的。
Yes.
我确实会这么认为，汤姆。
I probably would actually, Tom.
大家好。
Hello, everybody.
对。
Yes.
我觉得是这样。
I think so.
我们这周晚些时候会聊这个，对吧？
So we're gonna talk later on in in the week, aren't we?
关于罗马的假期，以及它们作为现代假期的前身。
Or about Roman holidays, about their sort of antecedents to holidays.
但我觉得显然，人类历史上大多数人从来没有度过假。
But I think obviously most people in human history never went on holiday.
他们那时候就是一直在干活，要么在地里种地，要么后来在工厂里上班，反正就是不停地工作。
I mean, they were just working all the time, sort of tilling the fields or later on working in the factories or whatever they were doing.
所以假期跟休闲和财富的概念是联系在一起的。
So holidays are kind of connected with the idea of leisure And wealth.
但假期也跟自我提升有关，对吧？
But they're also connected, aren't they, with the idea of self improvement?
所以人们会想，假期里要读什么书呢？
So people, you know, what books are you going to read on holiday?
要去游泳吗？
Are you going to go swimming?
要学新的运动吗？
Are you going to take up new sports?
要去体验当地的风土人情吗？
Are you going to see authentic local experiences?
要去看艺术展来开阔眼界吗？所有这些，比如观光之类的，没错。
Are you gonna broaden your mind by going to an art All these kinds of things, sightseeing, exactly.
我觉得这些一直是假期文化的一部分吧。
Mean, these have always been part of the sort of the holiday ethic, I suppose.
而且英国，我觉得尤其是……
And Britain, I think particularly has a...
英国是假期的先驱，也是旅行的先驱，因为当然英国人在十八、十九世纪是非常了不起的旅行者。
I mean, Britain is a pioneer of holidays, of of sort of travel because of course the British are tremendous travelers in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.
但还有，你……
But also Do you
你觉得那是因为我们是个岛国吗？
think that's because we're an island?
这……
It's...
但我觉得有一部分是这个原因。
But I think it's partly that.
而且我觉得英国人在国外……
And I think it also the British abroad...
因为这也和帝国、探险什么的有点关系。
Because it's also slightly connected with empire and exploration and so on.
但英国人在国外一直是个搞笑的话题，对吧？
But the British abroad is a perennially comic subject, isn't it?
因为有太多……
Because there's so much...
我们基本上带着一包偏见和势利眼去旅行，通常是对着彼此的。
We basically travel with bags stuffed with prejudices, snobberies, normally about one another.
嗯，也不全是。
Well, not exclusively.
也不，不是。
I mean, you know, also No.
显然也针对其他人。
About other people too, obviously.
还有很多对外国人的嘲笑。
A lot of sneering about foreigners as well.
尤其是德国人，我猜。
Germans in particular, guess.
不过是的，我觉得这是个绝妙的话题。
But yeah, I think it's a tremendous subject.
有很多很多乐趣可以挖掘。
There's lots of lots of fun to be had.
而且我觉得大旅行是个很好的起点，因为那是……
And I think the Grand Tour is a great place to kick off because that's...
任何曾经……
Anyone who's...
汤姆，你年轻的时候有没有出去旅行过？
Did you ever go into railing, Tom, when you were a youngster?
你去过哪里？
Where did you go?
意大利？
Italy?
是的，很多。
Much Yeah.
去了意大利。
Went to Italy.
德国、法国、西班牙，都去过。
Germany, France, Spain, everywhere.
那不就得了。
Well, there you go.
那基本上就是大旅行了，对吧？
I mean, that basically is the Grand Tour, isn't it?
因为你是从英国出发的。
Because you set off from England.
现在去背包旅行的人来自世界各地，年龄通常在18到25岁之间。
You know, people who go into railing, go backpacking now from all over the world, they go normally between the ages of about 18 and 25.
他们去是为了开阔眼界，玩得开心。
They go to broaden their minds to have fun.
他们去的时候，往往还带着一种期待，就是性方面的期待，这也是其中的一部分。
They go with the promise of kind of often the promise of sex is part of it.
而这些在大旅行中都是真实存在的。
And those things were all true at the Grand Tour.
法国和意大利，显然是英国贵族在大旅行中最常去的两个国家，我觉得它们现在仍然是全球旅游业的中心，对吧？
And France and Italy, which were obviously the two countries that were most visited by British aristocrats going on the Grand Tour, I think they're they're still kind of the epicenter of the global tourism business, aren't they?
我觉得西班牙是游客最多的。
I think they're the most visited in Spain
我也觉得西班牙是游客最多的。
as I think they are the most visited.
法国和西班牙。
France and in Spain.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
但在十八世纪，为什么偏偏是英国贵族在做这件事呢？
But in the eighteenth century, why is it distinctively British aristocrats who are doing this?
是不是因为他们被困在一个岛上？
Is it is it because they're they're stuck on an island?
是不是因为十八世纪英国人的财富有了质的飞跃？
Is it because the eighteenth century, the British are kinda having a a quantum leap in terms of wealth?
所以他们就是比别人更有钱吗？
So are they just richer than everyone else?
到底是怎么回事？
What's going on?
汤姆，这个问题其实有个很简单的答案，那就是实际上并不是只有英国人在做这件事。
There's there's a really easy answer to that, Tom, which is that it isn't actually the British who are exclusively doing this.
我们常常这么认为，是因为英国人比其他任何人写得都多。
We we often think it is because it's the British who have actually written about this more than anybody else.
但历史学家们开始注意到，其实有很多德国人、瑞典人、斯堪的纳维亚人也在进行这种类似的长途旅行。
But historians are starting to notice that actually there were tons of Germans, there were tons of Swedes, tons of Scandinavians going on these on these sort of odyssey.
但英国人似乎是最……
But it's the British who seem to have been most...
我觉得是因为英国人回来了，他们带回了所有的……
I think because the British came back and they they brought all the...
我们后面会发现，他们带回了所有的艺术品和雕塑。
As we'll discover, they brought all the art and the sculptures.
他们把那种美学风格也带了回来。
They brought the aesthetic back with them.
所以他们建造了帕拉第奥风格的乡间别墅。
So they built their country houses and kind of Palladian styles.
这些风格是在佛罗伦萨或者罗马之类的地方学到的。
They picked up in, you know, in in Florence or sort of Rome or whatever.
而英国人似乎就是……
And the British just seem to have...
他们就是比其他人更执着于这些东西。
They just they just seem to have become much more fixated than anybody else.
我觉得可能部分是因为这是个岛国，因为我们……
I think perhaps partly because of the island, you know, because we are...
我们曾经……
We were...
而且，十八世纪时，英国也在某种程度上把自己和欧洲大陆区分开来，对吧？
And also because Britain was kind of defining itself against the continent in the eighteenth century, wasn't it?
就是琳达·科利所说的那个英国时代。
The age of kind of Linda Colley's Britain.
我想是的，但同时也存在一种共同的欧洲文明的概念，不是吗？
I suppose, but there is also the idea of a kind of common European civilization, isn't there?
比如说……
I mean, for instance...
确实有。
There is.
一种共同的遗产，来自古典的古典遗产。
A common inheritance from the classical classical inheritance.
但也有法国的。
But also French.
所以你通常会先去巴黎，恶补一下
So you would usually go to Paris first, mug up
法语
on French
因为法语在十八世纪就像现在的英语一样。
because French was the English of the eighteenth century.
它是通用语言。
It was the lingua franca.
每个人……
Every...
你根本绕不开它。
You know, you couldn't really get around it.
好，我们……
Well, let's...
我们是不是……
Shall we shall we...
我们稍微追溯一下它的起源吧。
Let's dig back a bit to the origins of it.
汤姆，你肯定比我清楚得多，几个世纪以来人们一直去罗马。
So, I mean, as you will know far better than me, Tom, people had been going to Rome for centuries.
阿尔弗雷德大帝也去过罗马，对吧？
So Alfred the Grey went to Rome, didn't he?
他小时候……
When he was a...
他不是在那儿长大的吗？
Didn't he grow?
他小时候？
When he was a little boy?
所以去罗马大概就是这种朝圣之旅吧。
So going to Rome on these sort of pilgrimages, I suppose.
嗯，他们……
Well, they're
绝对是朝圣。
absolutely pilgrimages.
这就是关键。
I mean, that that is the thing.
是的，没错。
They are Yeah.
他们心里确实充满了宗教。
They have kind of religion absolutely at their heart.
人们不会在
People aren't doing
十六世纪中期这样做，对吧？
that in the mid sixteenth century are they?
我是说，亨利八世在1540年可没打算去罗马朝圣。
I mean Henry the eighth has no plans to go on a pilgrimage to Rome in 1540.
嗯，这显然是天主教的事，读过《坎特伯雷故事集》的人都知道。
Well so obviously it's a Catholic thing as anyone who's read The Canterbury Tales will know.
这是天主教的事，但沿途会带来很多很多乐趣。
It's a Catholic thing but it provides lots and lots of scope for for fun along the way.
所以你去参加朝圣，很可能会听到各种各样的人用押韵的对句给你讲故事。
So go along and you go on a pilgrimage, you're likely to hear all kinds of people telling you tales in rhyming couplets.
非常有趣。
Great fun.
不错。
Nice.
但随着宗教改革，这显然就搁置了。
But with the reformation, obviously, that falls into abeyance.
但很有意思。
But it's interesting.
所以弥尔顿进行了一次国外旅行。
So so Milton goes on a a foreign trip.
他去了意大利。
He goes to Italy.
他去见了伽利略。
He goes and sees Galileo.
他去看了那些景点。
He goes and sees the sites.
但我觉得这里面有一种特别强烈的认真劲儿。
But there's a kind of incredible sense of of earnestness I think about about that.
弥尔顿去是因为他……
Milton is going because he...
他的目标是成为英国的维吉尔，所以他需要……
His ambition is to become the English Virgil and so therefore he needs...
他觉得在实现那个目标之前，必须先去看看意大利。
He feels he needs to have seen Italy before he can possibly hope to achieve that.
至少
At
嗯，我觉得确实是这样。
least Well, I think that's true.
那是他会跟他的会计说的话。
That's what he'd tell his accountant.
我觉得没错。
I think that's true.
很多大旅行者，最早的那批大旅行者，就是非常早的那批。
Lots of the grand tourists, the original grand tourists, so the very early ones.
后来嘛，就变成了那些风流韵事和那些八卦，我肯定后面会有很多这样的内容，因为我知道汤姆你手里肯定有不少八卦。
So later on, you get to the sex and the bordering us, and I'm sure we're gonna have lots of that to come because I know you've got loads of, bordering us up your sleeve, Tom.
但是，据我所知，第一个真正把大旅行制度化的人，是托马斯·霍华德，阿伦德尔伯爵。
But the, supposedly the first, as far as I can discover, the man who really sort institutionalized the Grand Tour is somebody called Thomas Howard Earl of Arundel.
所以这是1613年、1614年，那时候是
So this is 1613, 1614, it's the reign
对，他是天主教徒。
of So he's a Catholic.
那应该是的。
Would that be Yes.
是的。
Yes.
这很重要吗？
Significant?
霍华德家族。
The Howard family.
没错。
Exactly.
实际上这可能很重要。
And it may be significant actually.
是的。
Yes.
因为他不是……
Because he means he's not...
他没有那种反天主教的包袱。
He doesn't have sort of anti Romish baggage.
然后他带着妻子和孩子，一路穿过意大利，去了那不勒斯。
And he goes, he takes his wife, he takes his children, he goes all the way through Italy and he goes to Naples.
他……
He...
他和大建筑师、大设计师伊尼戈·琼斯一起去的。
And he goes with Inigo Jones, the great architect, the great sort of designer.
那时候伊尼戈·琼斯最出名的是他的假面剧。
So Inigo Jones at that point is best known for his masks.
我知道你特别喜欢宫廷假面剧，汤姆。
I know you love a court mask, Tom.
对，特别喜欢宫廷假面剧。
Love a court mask, yep.
所以伊尼戈·琼斯就当了他们的向导。
So Inigo Jones goes as his guide.
这种想法就是，你带一个向导，同时他又是导师，对艺术和建筑更在行。
And that sort of idea that you go with a guide who's a tutor at the same time, who's more sort of plugged into the art and the architecture.
所以这就像邮轮上的客座讲师一样。
So it's like a kind of guest lecturer on a cruise.
没错。
Precisely.
正是如此，
That's exactly what
就是这样。
it is.
所以阿伦德尔去做了这件事，然后他回来了。
So Arendall goes and does this and he and he comes back.
他带回来大量艺术品。
He has tons of art.
他……
I mean, he's...
他买了达芬奇、拉斐尔等人的作品。
He buys things by Leonardo and Raphael and stuff.
他真的很投入。
He's really into this.
现在是1610年，做这些事算是非常早的了。
Now this is the 1610, so it's very early on to be doing all this.
但话说回来，多米尼克，这也算是在引领潮流，对吧？
But again, I mean, Dominic, this is also kind of setting a trend, isn't it?
因为直到今天，你出国回来总会带点纪念品。
Because to this day, if you go abroad, you come back with with tat.
但达芬奇的作品可不是纪念品。
I mean, in Leonardo isn't tat.
但你可能会带个埃菲尔铁塔模型之类的回来，对吧？
But, you know, you'll come back with an Eiffel tat, model of the Eiffel Tower or something or Exactly.
度假和收藏一直是密不可分的。
Holidaying and collecting have always gone hand in hand.
所以很明显，这……
So obviously that it's...
三十年战争期间，人们不会这么做。
People don't do it during the thirty years war.
所以……
So...
英国内战，不列颠内战，影响很大。
The English civil wars, the British civil wars so much.
这些都是明显的障碍。
I mean, are obvious obstacles.
但三十年战争在1648年结束后，以及1660年王政复辟之后，这种活动又重新开始了。
But after the end of the thirty years war 1648 and then the restoration 1660, It really starts up again.
我们第一次看到“大旅行”这个说法，是在1670年。
We have the first mention of the phrase, the grand tour, so that's in 1670.
而且，有意思的是，回到你刚才提到的天主教问题，提出这个说法的是一位在国外的天主教神父。
And again, actually actually interestingly, going back to your point about Catholicism, it's by a Catholic priest who is abroad.
他是个侨居海外的人。
He's an expatriate.
他叫理查德·拉塞尔。
He's called Richard Lassells.
他写了一本书叫《意大利之旅》，他在书中称之为“大旅行”，这个名字就流行起来了。
He writes a book called The Village of Italy, and he and he calls this the Grand Tour and the name kind of catches on.
而且在那本书里，正好印证了你说的关于最初那种严肃认真的态度。
And indeed in that book, you know, it's your point about the earnestness at the beginning.
听起来不太像度假玩乐，因为拉塞尔说旅行的目的——虽然他说有四个理由——
It doesn't sound much like holiday fun because Lassell says the point of being of travel, though he says there are four reasons to do it.
分别是智识上的、社交上的、政治上的和道德上的。
Are intellectual, social, political, and ethical.
现在，显然这些方面今天依然存在，对吧？
Now, obviously you have all those things still today, don't you?
智识上的。
Intellectual.
并不……
I mean, doesn't...
这种桨板冲浪和夜店跳舞在拉塞尔斯那里可没有。
This sort of paddle boarding and dancing in nightclubs do not feature in Lasseurs.
但1660年之后，这就成了潮流。
But then after 1660, it becomes the thing.
所以你是……
So you're...
一般来说，做这件事的都是贵族，对吧？
It's generally aristocrats, isn't it, who do it?
你需要很多钱，还需要人脉。
You need a lot of money, and you need connections.
你需要一定的财力。
You need you need a kind of wherewithal.
我总想到那种詹姆斯·邦德式的派头，走进酒店就能说，你知道的，老样子。
That sort of what I always think of as that sort of James Bond ability to walk into the hotel and say, you know Your usual.
住套房。
Residential suite.
老样子，老样子，邦德先生。
My usual usual, mister Bond.
对。
Yep.
你基本上得能走进去，而且完全有把握没人会跟你说，我们订满了。
You basically, you need to be able to walk in in in full confidence that nobody will say, we're fully booked.
嗯，确实有那种情况。
Well there's that
约翰逊博士说过一句挺让人心酸的话。
very rather sad comment by Doctor.
他当然不是工厂主，所以没钱去大旅行。
Johnson, who of course was not a mill lord and so therefore couldn't afford to go on a grand tour.
他说，没去过意大利的人，总会因为没看过大家觉得该看的东西而感到自卑。
That a man who has not been in Italy is always conscious of an inferiority from his not having seen what it is expected a man should see.
这大概是在替那些想去意大利却去不起的人说话吧，对他们来说那简直是个遥不可及的梦。
Which is I guess speaking for whole classes of people who would love to go to Italy but for whom it's just kind of impossible dream?
嗯，你必须得能做到。
Well, you have to be able to.
所以你得有一定的底子，得受过教育，古典教育，就是希腊语和拉丁语，因为你得知道你要看的是什么。
So you have to have had some grounding in, you have to have had an education, a classical education, so Greek and Latin, because you need to know what you're going to see.
你得请得起导师。
You need to be able to afford the tutor.
这些导师被称为“熊领队”，或者叫“西塞罗向导”。
So the tutors were called bear leaders or they're called cicerones.
就是西塞罗·汤姆。
So that's Cicero Tom.
这个说法来源于，他们的导师有点像西塞罗那样的人物。
It's from the idea of, so their tutor is a sort of Ciceronian figure
谁能想到呢。
who will Imagine that.
跟你聊聊这些。
Talk to you about.
那可能比这更有趣。
Well it could be more fun than
和西塞罗一起去度假。
go on holiday with Cicero.
天哪，听起来糟透了，简直糟透了。
God sounds awful, sounds absolutely awful.
不，那会很棒的。
No it'd be great.
西塞罗很有幽默感。
Cicero has great wit.
一个会
Someone who
只会跟你聊修辞学的人。
would just talk to you about rhetoric.
不，你不会的。
No you wouldn't.
整个假期都是这样。
All on your holiday.
但这也是一种个人体验。
But it's also the idea that it's an individual experience.
在这方面就像搭火车旅行一样，因为基本上每到一站，你身边都是其他大旅行者。
It's just like interrailing in this regard because basically at every stop you're surrounded by other grand tourists.
有些特定的旅馆和小酒馆里全是那种人，比如
You know, there are particular hotels and taverns and just full of, like
我的大人，
My lord of
巴斯。
Bath.
真巧，在这儿遇见你。
Fancy meeting you here.
里面全是那种纨绔子弟。
It's full of hooray Henrys.
我们去城里问问他吧。
Let us go ask him the town.
你想去看看帕拉迪奥式建筑吗？
Do you wanna go and look at some Palladian architecture?
不想。
No.
我想去喝个痛快。
I wanna go and get hammered.
我觉得那种情况挺多的。
I think there's an I think there's an awful amount of that.
我觉得那是……
I think that's...
所以，你想让我给你讲讲路线吗？
So basically, do you want me to tell you about the route?
要不要我给你讲讲路线？
Should I tell you about the route?
你想不想
Would you like
让我
me to
试试这条路线？
try the route?
我来说说，出发后，你渡过海峡，到加来，然后去巴黎，在那里你会学习舞蹈、击剑、骑马，
Me the That sets off, you cross the channel, you go to Calais A La Arve and then you go to Paris and there you are instructed in dancing, fencing, riding,
所有这些技能。
all these kinds of things.
你由法国舞蹈大师来教。
You're By French dancing masters.
由法国舞蹈大师来教。
By French dancing masters.
所以你会学到一些波兰语。
So you get a bit of Polish.
然后从那里出发，你可能会让一些人惊讶，你要去瑞士。
Then from there you go, this may surprise some people, you go to Switzerland.
所以瑞士，今天不是一个适合搭火车旅行的地方，它太贵了，对吧？
So Switzerland, which is not a great interrailing place today, it was a massive It's too expensive, isn't it?
确实太贵了，但在十八世纪显然不是这样。所以你要去日内瓦或者洛桑。
It is too expensive, but it was not clearly in the eighteenth So you go to Geneva or you go to Lausanne.
那里的吸引力还在于，瑞士当然是一个非常新教的国家。
And the appeal of that is also because Switzerland of course is very Protestant.
所以当时的想法是，这会在某种程度上让你对后来的过度天主教倾向产生免疫力。
So So the thinking was that this would sort of inoculate you against excessive Catholicism later on.
吉本，爱德华·吉本，那位伟大的历史学家，他年轻时因为天主教倾向被送到洛桑。
Gibbon, Edward Gibbon, the great historian, he was sent to Lausanne because of his papist tendencies when he was a young man.
他的家人觉得他变得过于倾向罗马，所以强迫他去瑞士，那里清淡的饮食和高山峻岭会促使他对宗教持有更理性的看法。
His family thought he was becoming dangerously Rome ish, And so they forced him to go to Switzerland where, you know, the sort of thin gruel and high peaks would encourage more sound views on religion.
然后从那里，你要翻越阿尔卑斯山。
So then from there, you go over the Alps.
现在，翻越阿尔卑斯山对我们来说当然轻而易举。
Now, obviously, going over the Alps to us is dead easy.
但对他们来说却非常困难。
To them is very difficult.
所以你就……
So you...
哦，顺便说一句，你会在巴黎买一辆马车。
Oh, by the way, you'll have bought a coach in Paris.
这有点像人们自驾游时买辆车，最后再卖掉。
So this is a bit like people going on road trips and buying a car and then selling it at the end.
你会买下这辆马车，而且很可能还会带一群仆人帮你搬东西。
You'll have bought this carriage and you'd also probably have a load of servants who will be carrying your stuff.
那……但是翻越阿尔卑斯山的时候，仆人们难道不会……
So But but when you go over the Alps, don't the don't the servants carry...
真的抬着你走吗？
Actually carry you physically?
如果运气好的话，他们会把马车拆开，把零件扛着翻过阿尔卑斯山。
If you're lucky, they will dismantle the carriage and take its pieces and carry it over the Alps.
但如果你特别有钱，仆人们会抬着你翻过阿尔卑斯山。
But if you're if you're really rich, the servants will carry you over the Alps
也是。
as well.
那这就是商务舱了。
So that's business class.
那确实是商务舱。
That is business.
我觉得那应该是头等舱吧。
Well, that's first class I think.
从那里出发，你去都灵或者米兰，也可能去佛罗伦萨，然后就开始看艺术了。
So from there you go to Turin or you go to Milan, you might go to Florence and you're now looking at art.
你会去威尼斯吗？
Do you go to Venice?
其实威尼斯是稍后一点才去的。
You go to Venice a bit later actually.
你会去……
You go to...
所以佛罗伦萨之后，你会去帕多瓦、博洛尼亚，然后去威尼斯。
So after Florence you go to Padua, you go to Bologna and you go to Venice.
威尼斯当然是重要的目的地之一，是很大的亮点，但真正的亮点是罗马。
So Venice is obviously one of the great sort of destinations, one of the big high points, but the real high point is Rome.
罗马才是你真正想去看看的地方。
I mean, Rome is the place you are you are sort of setting out to see.
到了罗马，你会发现那里满是基础设施。
And when you get to Rome, Rome is full of the infrastructure.
就像坐火车旅行和背包旅行依赖旅游基础设施一样。
You know, just like interrailing and backpacking rely on a tourist infrastructure.
罗马有所有的……
Rome has all the...
那里有那种小酒馆。
You know, it has sort of taverns.
有旅馆。
It has hotels.
有画家给你画风景画。
It has painters who will paint picturesque scenes for you.
有商人卖你小玩意儿，就是那种号称古董的半身像之类的。
It has entrepreneurs who will sell you tat, so who have huge ranges of sort of supposedly antique busts and stuff.
还会有人当中间人，干那种事。
And there will be people who will act as middlemen and all that kind of thing.
所以……
So...
然后从那里，你会去那不勒斯。
And then from there, you will go to Naples.
那不勒斯，汤姆，你知道的，你会看到赫库兰尼姆和庞贝。
And Naples, as you will know, Tom, you know, you'll get to see Herculaneum and Pompeii.
所以赫库兰尼姆的发掘始于1738年，庞贝则是1748年。
So the excavations in Herculaneum started in 1738, in Pompeii in 1748.
所以你基本上看到的是活生生的考古现场，如果你聪明的话，你会带走一大堆东西。
So the, you know, you're basically seeing live archaeology and you're and if you're if you're smart, you're carrying off loads.
你会抓起那些东西，放进你的……
You're like grabbing the stuff and putting it into your...
让你的仆人们……
Getting your servants to...
你真是……
You're algony.
没错。
Exactly.
你……
You're...
你就是在干这个。
That's exactly what you're doing.
但我说得没错吧，那不勒斯……
But I'm right, aren't I that Naples...
我是说，这个时候的那不勒斯算什么水平？
I mean Naples at this point is what?
几乎一样大？
Almost as large?
可能比伦敦和巴黎还大。
I mean, maybe larger than London and Paris.
它……
I mean, it's...
它大约是欧洲第三大城市。
It's about the third largest city in in Europe.
而且它本身就是一个伟大的圣地。
And a a great kind of Mecca in its own right.
它有歌剧院。
I mean, it's got opera houses.
它有自己的宫廷。
It's got its own court.
它非常时尚。
It's tremendously fashionable.
所以那不勒斯什么都有。
So Naples has got everything.
所以那不勒斯不仅仅有……
So Naples doesn't just have...
它确实有歌剧院，也有那种国际化大都市的样子和高雅文化，但它还有那种如画的美景。
I mean, it does have the opera house and it does have the sort of the pattern of cosmopolitanism and sort of the high culture, but it also has the picturesque.
所以到了十八世纪后期，浪漫主义开始兴起的时候，
So as you're getting later on in the eighteenth century and sort of romanticism is beginning to
所以你就看到了维苏威火山，对吧？
So you're getting Vesuvius, aren't you?
开始浮现出来。
To loom.
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是的，维苏威火山。
Vesuvius, yes.
所以有个关于一个叫赫斯特·林奇·皮奥齐的女人的故事。
So there's a story about a woman called Hester Lynch Piotzzi.
她1789年去了那不勒斯。
She went to Naples in 1789.
她指着维苏威火山，对一个修士说，那就是那座著名的火山吗？
She said to her, she pointed at Vesuvius and she said to a friar, is that the famous volcano?
那个修士说，是的，那就是我们的山，它靠吸引外国人来观赏这一惊人现象的奇特效果，为我们带来财富。
And this friar said, yes, that is our mountain which throws up money for us by calling foreigners to see the extraordinary effects of so surprising a phenomenon.
所以显然对意大利人来说，所有这些人都来是件大好事。对。
So obviously, you know, for the Italians, this is all great that all these people Yeah.
所有这些像哈里王子那样的人物，带着成吨的...
All these sort of Prince Harry ish figures are turning up with ton...
被仆人抬着，带着大把的钱。
Being carried by servants with tons of money.
但显然，除了那种……
But obviously, as well as the sort of...
汤姆，我知道你可能会觉得艺术部分很无聊，所以我尽量少讲。
So I know you find the art stuff very potentially very boring, Tom, so I'll keep this to a minimum.
不会啊。
I don't.
不会。
No.
不会。
I don't.
不会。
I don't.
但继续说。
But go on.
所以他们带回了帕拉第奥式、新古典主义艺术和建筑的美学。
So they bring back the aesthetic, so of kind of Palladianism, of neoclassical art and architecture.
所以他们所有的乡村别墅都是这种风格。
So they do all their country houses in this style.
比如斯托海德。
So Stourhead.
你去过斯托海德吗？
You ever been to Stourhead?
去过。
Yes.
对，斯托海德。
Stourhead, exactly.
或者斯托。
Or Stowe.
那里他们……对。
Where they Yeah.
他们淹了一个村庄，在上面建了个湖，然后在周围建了古典神庙。
They drowned a village, put a lake over it, and built kind of classical temples around it.
太棒了。
It's fantastic.
确实不错。
It is good.
如果我是
If I
五月领主，
was a May Lord,
那正是我会做的事。
that's exactly what I would have done.
斯托庄园在……
I mean, Stowe House in...
那是在哪里？
Where is that?
我想是在白金汉郡。
Buckinghamshire, I suppose.
那真是美得惊人。
I mean, that is absolutely, you know, spectacular.
另一座国民信托的宅邸，同样是这种意大利风格的新古典主义样式，明显受到大旅行的影响，到处都是半身像和雕像之类的。
Another National Trust house, again done in this sort of Italianate neoclassical style, clearly informed by the Grand Tour with all the busts and the statues and so on.
这些东西都是刻意模仿人们在国外看到的东西。
And these things are they are deliberate imitations of what people have seen abroad.
很多时候，里面塞满的东西真的是直接从国外带回来的。
I mean, often the things that they're stuffed with have literally been taken.
有个叫理查德·博伊尔的家伙，他是第三代伯灵顿伯爵。
So there's a bloke called Richard Boyle, third Earl of Burlington.
他在1714年到1719年间进行了多次旅行。
He went on tours between 1714 and 1719.
所以这些旅行通常持续好几年，不是一个月就能来回的。
So these are often multi year, you know, you don't just go there and back in a month.
你可能要离开两三年。
You could be away for two or three years.
他带回来了，你知道他带回了多少箱大理石、画作和花瓶吗？
And he brings back, do you know how many crates of marbles and paintings and vases he brings back with him?
40。
40.
868。
868.
好的。
Okay.
我远远没达到那个数。
I didn't remotely get near that.
那可真是一个大厅，对吧？
That is a hall, isn't it?
确实是
That really is
一个大厅。
a hall.
那真是非常非常厉害。他在那里做了什么？
That is a very, very impressive What did he do there?
就是那种……
Just kind of...
他是不是……他们把东西放在他家里了。
Did he They put it in his house.
为了有点……
To kind of...
还是说他的房子够大？
Or is his house big enough?
嗯，肯定够大。
Well, must have been.
或者可能建了个附属建筑。
Or maybe build an annex.
我猜他肯定有好几处房子，城里一套，乡下一套。
I I would assume he had multiple, a townhouse and a country house,
汤姆。
Tom.
是的。
Yes.
我猜也是。
I guess.
我倒是很想参加大旅行。
I mean, I would love to have gone on the Grand Tour.
不过，有一件事我肯定不会做，那就是把外国的时尚带回来，这我们在关于英意关系的播客里聊过，就是针对2020年欧洲杯的那期。
The one thing I would not have done, however, is to bring back the foreign fashions, which is something that we talked about in our podcast about Anglo Italian relations for Euro twenty twenty.
那些花花公子，头发蓬蓬的，还穿着高跟鞋。
The macaroni's people with this sort of massive hair and high heels.
所以人们把意大利式或者法国式的时尚带回来。
And so people bringing back Italianate or sort of Frenchified fashions.
而且随着时间推移，他们越来越被讽刺漫画和新闻报刊之类的东西嘲笑。
And they, as the century wears on, they get more and more grief from the kind of satirical prints and new sheets and things.
因为他们越来越喜欢戴那种高耸的假发，对吧？
Because they're kind of increasingly steeplingly high wigs, don't they?
确实如此。
Well, do indeed.
我能跟你说说我特别喜欢的一个去过大旅行的人吗？
Can I just tell you my favorite guy who went on a
是詹姆斯·博斯韦尔吗？
grand tour is James Boswell?
他既是个了不起的人，又是个糟糕透顶的人，博斯韦尔就是这样，对吧？
He's both a splendid fellow and a terrible fellow, isn't he Boswell?
是的。
Yes.
他的大旅行经历非常精彩。
His his experience of the grand tour is is a magnificent one.
所以他……
So he's...
他是苏格兰地主的儿子。
And he's the son of a Scottish laird.
他来到了伦敦。
He's He's come down to London.
他和约翰逊博士成了朋友，然后准备开始一段为期两年的欧洲之旅。
He's made friends with doctor Johnson, and he's going off on a kind of what will become a two year trip around Europe.
有一段关于他的描述非常感人。
And there's this kind of very moving description of him.
约翰逊博士来为他送行，他看到约翰逊站在码头上，然后以一种摇摆的步伐慢慢走开。
Doctor Johnson has come down to to bid him farewell and he sees Johnson standing on the pier and then kind of rolling off with this kind of rolling gate.
然后博斯韦尔满怀誓言地去了荷兰。
And, off Boswell goes to The Netherlands full of vows.
他打算做个好人。
You know, he's gonna be good.
他打算做个有道德的人。
He's gonna be moral.
他要成为约翰逊希望的那种人。
He's going to be everything Johnson would want.
但马上，他就原形毕露了。
And immediately, it's kind of woof woof.
他直接就去了。
He's straight up.
他就是忍不住。
He's he's, you know, I mean, he just can't keep it in.
但他总是被各种诱惑所困扰，他必须得改。
But he he keeps getting attacked by sort of, he's got to be improving.
他可能会花一周时间逛遍所有妓院，然后说，不行。
He'll have a kind of week of of going around all the brothels and then he'll say, no.
我得停止这种行为。
I've to stop this.
我得提升自己。
I've got to improve myself.
所以他在德国，他在……
And so he is in Germany and he's in...
他到了柏林，心里想，你知道我特别想做什么吗？
He he gets to Berlin and he thinks, do you know what I'd really like to do?
这其实是《大旅行》的一个主题。
And this is actually quite a theme of The Great Tour.
你不只是想去看风景。
You don't just want to go and see sights.
你还想去见名人。
You want to go and see famous people.
对。
Yes.
所以博斯韦尔想，我要去见欧洲最有名的两个人，卢梭和伏尔泰。
And so Boswell thinks, I'm going to go and see the two most famous people in Europe, Rousseau and Voltaire.
于是他也从德国去了瑞士。
And so he also, from Germany, goes to Switzerland.
所以，你知道，你之前提到瑞士是个常规的中转站。
So, know, you were saying about how Switzerland is a a regular stop off.
他去了莫蒂埃，那里……
And he goes to Mottier where...
在瑞士纳沙泰尔附近，卢梭正住在那里。
Near Neuchatel in Switzerland where Rousseau is staying.
他给卢梭写了这封信。
And he writes this letter to Rousseau.
我是一位苏格兰绅士，出身古老家族。
I am a Scots gentleman of ancient family.
现在你知道我的身份了。
Now you know my rank.
我24岁。
I am 24 years old.
现在你知道我的年龄了。
Now you know my age.
十六个月前，我离开英国时，还是个完全孤陋寡闻的人，只知道……
Sixteen months ago, I left Great Britain a completely insular being knowing...
他是不是有莱昂·尼森的声音？
Did he have Leon Niesen's voice?
几乎一个法语单词都不会。
Knowing hardly a word of French.
我去过荷兰和德国，但还没到过法国。
I have been in Holland and in Germany, but not yet in France.
所以，请原谅我法语说得不好。
You will therefore excuse my handling of the language.
我旅行是真心想提升自己。
I am traveling with a genuine desire to improve myself.
我来这里，是
I have come here in
希望能见到你。
the hope of seeing you.
所以多米尼克，他当时就是这么说话的。
So that's exactly how he spoke, Dominic.
然后他最后说，我预感到今天会诞生一段真正高尚的友谊。
And he finishes off by by by saying, I have a presentiment that a truly noble friendship will be born today.
卢梭是出了名的脾气不好，但他说，好吧。
And Rousseau is kind of notoriously grumpy, but he says, fine.
一起来吧。
Come along.
于是博斯韦尔就跟着去了，他问卢梭……
So Boswell goes along, and he he asks Rousseau...
他们聊了起来。
You know, they have a chat.
博斯韦尔非常讨人喜欢，对什么都感兴趣，也是个很有趣的人。
Boswell's very personable, very interested, very interesting person.
卢梭和他相处得挺愉快的。
Rousseau gets on quite well with him.
博斯韦尔最后基本上对卢梭说，你愿意做我的导师吗？
Boswell ends up saying basically to Rousseau, will you become my mentor?
你愿意，我想，成为……
Will you, I suppose, become...
我们知道。
We know.
你愿意做我的熊领路人吗？
Will you become my bear leader?
我想不出
I can't think
还有哪两个人比他们更不同。
of two more different men.
还有两个。
Two more.
然后卢梭基本上说，不。
And and and Rousseau basically says, no.
我不会的。
I I won't.
我不想做这件事。
I I don't want to do this.
而且，我还在痛苦中。
And what's more, I'm in pain.
我需要一个夜壶。
I need a chamber pot.
于是他赶紧跑去坐在夜壶上。
And so he rushes off to sit on the chamber pot.
而卢梭没有领会到他的意思，跟着他，继续问他关于自由之类的问题。
And Rousseau, instead of getting the message, follows him, continues to kind of ask him questions about liberty and all this kind of stuff.
天哪。
Oh god.
卢梭对他说的最后一句话是：滚开。
And Rousseau's last words to him is be off.
所以到这个时候，博斯韦尔已经明白了，所以他确实走了。
So at this point at this point, Boswell has got the message, so he does go.
然后他去找伏尔泰，伏尔泰也同样很热情地接待了他。
And he goes off to see Voltaire, who is is equally quite welcoming.
然后他们又进行了一次长谈。
And, again, they have a kind of long chat.
伏尔泰显然觉得博斯韦尔很搞笑，最后也让他滚蛋了。
Voltaire obviously finds Boswell hilarious and and kind of, in the end, tells him to bog off as well.
然后博斯韦尔去了罗马，做了所有那些常规的事情。
So Boswell then goes off to Rome, does all the usual stuff.
但接着他去了科西嘉，那里正处于一场伟大的浪漫主义叛乱和革命之中。
But then he goes to Corsica, which is in the middle of a kind of great romantic rebellion, revolution.
他和帕斯夸莱·保利混在一起，保利是伟大的浪漫主义科西嘉领袖。
And he hangs out with Pascuale Paoli, is the great kind of romantic Corsican leader.
这是卢梭建议他去的。
And that's been suggested to him by Rousseau.
然后他就……
And so he has...
博斯韦尔在那儿玩得很开心，扮演着那种浪漫的角色……
Boswell has a lovely time there kind of playing the romantic...
这又是一个绝对的主题，那就是……
And this, you know, again, this is an absolute theme that...
我们会在拜伦身上再次看到这一点，就是你会去远方，去遇见那些人……
And we'll see it again with Byron, that you go off and you meet people in...
如果你是在进行那种极致的壮游，你不会只想待在罗马或那不勒斯。
You know, if you're if you're kind of doing the extreme Grand Tour, you don't just want to stick to Rome or Naples.
你会想去偏远的山区，去见那些留着奇特胡子的异域人物，诸如此类。
You want to go off to remote mountainous locations and meet exotic people with extraordinary facial hair, that kind of thing.
然后博斯韦尔返回欧洲，和卢梭的情人兼管家泰蕾兹有了一段情。
So Boswell then goes back through Europe, and he has an affair with Rousseau's lover and housekeeper, Therese.
那可真够呛。
That's poor.
但是，这会不会是对卢梭对待他的方式的报复呢？
But but maybe is that revenge for the way Rousseau treated him?
不是。
No.
不算是……
Not at...
不是。
No.
完全不是。
Not at all.
我觉得他……
I think I think he...
他之前有点……
He'd been he'd been kind of...
他显然在见到泰蕾兹、和卢梭在一起的时候，就对她有意思了。
He he clearly fancied Therese when he'd met her, when he'd been with with Rousseau.
而且他给泰蕾兹写了很多信。
And he'd been writing to Therese quite a lot.
泰蕾兹呢，我觉得她最后是同情他，然后他们就有了婚外情。
And Therese basically, I think ends up feeling sorry for him and they have an affair.
然后博斯韦尔就回家了。
And Boswell goes back home.
他把泰蕾兹带走了。
He takes Therese with him.
那时候，卢梭在伦敦。
By this point, Rousseau is in London.
所以他把泰蕾兹送到那儿，从来没告诉卢梭他背叛了他。
And so he drops Therese off and never tells Rousseau that he's cheated on
他。
him.
哇。
Wow.
但我觉得真正让博斯韦尔成为典型的是，而且我们会在拜伦身上再次看到这一点，但我们也看到了，我以自己为例，我当年休学一年去了印度，回来的时候身上挂满了印度风格的装饰。
But the thing that I think really marks Boswell out as an archetype and again we'll see this in Byron but we see it, you know, and I speak for myself as someone who went to India on a a year off, on a gap year, and came back kind of festooned in Indian fashion.
汤姆，我真不敢相信
Tom, I can't believe
你，博斯韦尔。
you Boswell.
你
Were
你简直是个活生生的模仿秀，跑到一个完全
you were such a parody to go to a total
陌生的地方。
paraphern.
但博斯韦尔回来时穿了一整套科西嘉服装。
But Boswell comes back with a full Corsican outfit.
哦，你没那么干吧。
Oh, you didn't do that.
当然，这个别人都没有。
Which, of course, nobody else has.
请告诉我你没那么做。
Please tell me you didn't do that.
他不是打扮成纨绔子弟。
He is not dressing up as a macaroni.
他打扮成科西嘉自由战士。
He's dressing up as a Corsican freedom fighter.
所以每次有舞会，他都会穿着那套科西嘉自由战士的服装出现。
And so whenever there's a ball, he will turn up in this Corsican freedom fighter outfit.
一开始，这确实大出风头。
And to begin with, it cuts a tremendous dash.
但过了三四次之后，人们开始窃窃私语。
But after about three or four, people are starting to snare.
于是博斯韦尔明白了意思，就把那套衣服收起来放到一边。
And so Boswell gets the message and he packs it up and puts it to one side.
那真是太有趣了。
That is very funny.
你在印度的时候，有没有带回来一些印度服装？
Did you come back with Indian garb from your time in India?
我不打算说。
I'm not gonna say.
我从你的表情就能看出来，你……
I can see from your expression that you
……该在这里插播广告了。
should go to a break here.
确实该这样。
We should do.
但是汤姆，你在不旅行的时候，难道没有去找过名人吗？
But Tom, did you not go and did you not seek out famous people when you weren't traveling?
没有。
No.
我没做过
I didn't do
那件事。
that.
你看，我就做过。
See, I did.
我和我的朋友西蒙去找了保加利亚足协的秘书长，邦乔·托多罗夫。
My friend Simon and I sought out the secretary of the Bulgarian football union, Boncho Todorov.
是吗？
Did you?
当时我们在索非亚，就做了自我介绍。
When we were in Sofia and we introduced ourselves.
那后来怎么样？
And how did that go?
那后来怎么样？
How did that go?
那简直太顺利了。
Absolutely brilliantly.
我们去了他的办公室，说我们是两个年轻人。
We went to his office and we said, we're two young men.
他会说英语吗？
Did he speak English?
其实，我这么说不太公平，因为我漏掉了西蒙的女朋友，她当时也在场。
Actually, I'm being very unfair because I'm leaving out Simon's girlfriend who was also at present.
所以实际上我们是三个人。
So there's actually three of us.
不过，她嘛……
But I mean, she...
我觉得她对见邦乔·托多罗夫这件事没什么兴趣。
I don't think she had a great stake in meeting Bonjour Todorov.
他确实会说一点
He did speak a
会一点英语。
bit of English.
那你为什么那么想见他？
Why did you have a great stake?
好，我来解释一下。
Well, I'll explain.
我们说我们是三个人……
We said we're three...
我们是从……
We're we've come from...
我们大老远从英国来的。
We've come all the way from England.
这一点听众们一点都不意外。
And and this one's not surprised listeners at all.
我们说，我们来自英国牛津大学，所以非常重要。
We said, we're from Oxford University in England and therefore very important.
你能给我们几张明天国家体育场保加利亚对俄罗斯的世界杯关键预选赛的免费票吗？
Could you give us free tickets for Bulgaria's crucial World Cup qualifier against Russia at the national stadium tomorrow?
难以置信的是，他说行，而且真的给了。
And unbelievably, he said yes, and he did.
嗯，我想如果
Well, I suppose if
你不开口，就得不到，对吧？
you don't ask, you don't get, do you?
确实如此。
Well, exactly.
人们常说牛津剑桥毕业生的那种优越感。
I mean, people talk about the the entitlement of the Oxbridge educated.
这是不是就在
Was this just after the
这是九十年代的事。
This is nineteen nineties.
所以我觉得有点像是
So I suppose kind of
那时候牛津学生来访还算是件新鲜事。
visiting Oxford students was still a novelty at that point.
我觉得确实有点新鲜。
I think a bit of a novelty.
对。
Yes.
我当时没有回来打扮成保加利亚人
I didn't I didn't then come back and dress as a Bulgarian
保加利亚人。
A Bulgarian.
九十年代的。
From the nineteen nineties.
他们当时是……
I mean, that they were...
那时候穿运动服确实很流行。
That was a very shell suited aesthetic then.
我可能会……
I'd...
你本来可以这么做的。
You could've done.
我本来可以这么做的。
I could've done.
或者也许……
Or maybe...
国家队运动服？
National team shell suit?
也许吧。
Maybe.
谁知道呢？
Who knows?
下次我们历史俱乐部聚会的时候，亲爱的听众，如果你加入我们历史俱乐部，你当然可以来参加，也许我会穿一套保加利亚的运动服。
For our next restish history club get together, which you, of course, can be present at, dear listener, if you join the restish history club, maybe I shall wear a Bulgarian shell suit.
汤姆，你可以穿你的印度服装。
And Tom you can wear your Indian garb.
对，穿民族服装。
Yeah in national dress.
没什么比听别人聊假期更无聊的了，所以我觉得我们这时候应该……
There's nothing more boring than people talking about the holiday so I think we should probably at this point...
我们可以
We could be
整个星期都在聊这个。
doing that all week.
等我们回来的时候，
And when we come back,
我们来看看，当那些工厂主们出国旅行的时候，英国这边发生了什么。
let's have a look at what, you know, while the while the mill lords are going off on their foreign trips, what is happening in Britain.
好的。
Okay.
太好了。
Jolly good.
一会儿见，
See you in a
马上。
minute.
我们正在从唐宁街10号获取关于那架载有350名乘客的航班的声明。
We are getting a statement from number 10 of that flight with 350 passengers on board.
大博弈，英国和俄罗斯之间的战略斗争。
The great game, strategic struggle between Britain and Russia.
我们高度确信首相是俄罗斯人。
We assess a prime minister with high confidence it was Russian.
追究俄罗斯的责任是世界
Holding the Russians accountable is World
第三次世界大战。
War three.
他们击落了一架载有350人的英国客机。
They took down a British passenger jet containing 350 people.
克里姆林宫的那个人在玩火，亚历克斯。
Man in the Kremlin is playing, Alex.
你得问问自己，你想不想玩？
You've got to ask yourself, You want to play or not?
你是首相。
You're the prime minister.
你什么都没做。
You've done nothing.
你准备好发表评论了吗？
Are you prepared for comment?
我们需要了解政策背景。
We would need to understand the policy context.
所有相关背景今天都会整理成一个框架，然后下发给作战命令或补充命令。
All the relevant context will be structured as a framework today and disseminated into an operation order or frago.
一份补充命令，内容是刺杀俄罗斯总统。
A frago that says to kill the president of Russia.
是的。
Yes.
Goalhanger 新出品。
New from Goalhanger.
谁能完成这个任务？
Who is going to be able to pull this off?
你是我的士兵，对吧？
You're my soldier, are you?
汤姆·麦克达夫中士……
Sergeant Tom McDuff...
达菲。
Duffy.
这是一段与众不同的音频剧旅程。
An audio drama journey like no other.
像达菲这样的人，是我们最宝贵的武器。
Men like Duffy, they are our most valuable weapons.
这是一部技术严谨的地缘政治动作惊悚剧。
Devised as a technically rigorous geopolitical action thriller.
我们有两次友好的新西兰人。
We have two times friendly kiwi.
英国打出它最强的牌——他是最棒的。
Where Britain plays its strongest arm He's the best.
对抗它最强的敌人。
Against its strongest foe.
别这么做，达菲。
Don't do it, Duffy.
《猎熊》。
Bear Hunt.
现在就可以在各大播客平台收听。
Available now wherever you get your podcasts.
要是能去布莱顿就好了，简·奥斯汀一定会认出，这是《傲慢与偏见》中莉迪亚·班纳特和她母亲发出的感叹。
If one could but go to Brighton, that is, as always Jane Austen will recognize, the exclamation given by both Lydia Bennett and her mother in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.
多米尼克，我们已经从十八世纪讲到了摄政时期。
Dominic, we have moved on from the eighteenth century to the regency period.
而摄政时期，当然，与拿破仑战争是同时期的。
And the regency period, of course, is coterminous with the Napoleonic wars.
拿破仑战争使得工厂主们，或者任何其他人，都很难去欧洲大陆旅行。
And the Napoleonic wars make it difficult for mill lords or indeed anyone else to go on travels across the continent.
因此，英国的上层阶级和中上层阶级不得不寻求某种职业上的自给自足。
And so Britain's upper classes, upper middle classes have to gain a kind of vocational self sufficiency.
而布莱顿显然就是这样的地方之一。
And Brighton obviously is is one of those places.
我想另一个地方也是以B开头的，那就是巴斯。
And I suppose the other one is another place beginning with b, Bath.
对。
So Yep.
巴斯和布莱顿是怎么变成那种……
What's the story of how Bath and Brighton become the kind of honey...
简·奥斯汀式游客的旅游胜地的？
Honey pots for Jane Austen style tourists?
嗯，我觉得可以说巴斯和布莱顿是世界上最早的两个现代度假胜地，对吧？
Well, I suppose you could say that Bath and Brighton are two of the world's first modern holiday destinations, couldn't you?
巴斯是先发展起来的，而且这两个地方都跟医生有关。
So Bath is first and they're both to do with doctors.
这真的很有意思。
So it's really interesting.
健康，健康和度假交织在一起，就是你出门旅行、去度假，就像我们现在说的，我需要海边的空气。
So health, the interweaving of health on holidays, the idea that you travel, you go on a break, you go for the, you know, now we think of as people will say, I need the sea air.
我需要阳光，我渴望阳光，诸如此类的。
You know, I need sunshine, I crave sunshine, you know, all that sort of stuff.
我会觉得精神焕发。
It'll, I'll feel refreshed.
回来就像换了个人似的。
I'll come back a new man or new woman.
这可以追溯到十七世纪末、十八世纪初。
That goes back to the sort of late seventeenth, early eighteenth century.
最早推广这个理念的人之一，是一位来自汉普郡的医生，他其实是意大利后裔。
One of the first people who really popularized this was a guy who was a doctor from Hampshire called, he was of Italian descent actually.
他家姓Guidotti，但他自称Thomas Guidott。
His family were called Guidotti but he called himself Thomas Guidott.
他1668年搬到巴斯，是个医生。
And he moved to Bath in 1668, so he's a doctor.
他发表了一系列关于巴斯水质的调查研究，因为巴斯当然……
And he publishes a series of sort of investigations into the waters of Bath because of course Bath,
你
you
你知道，那是个温泉。
know, it's a spa.
是个温泉，从罗马时代起就是温泉了。
It's spa and it's been a spa since Roman times.
所以他……
So he...
他的书……
His his book...
他最成功的书叫《关于巴斯及其温泉的论述》。
His most successful book is called A Discourse of Bath and the Hot Waters There.
还有，1676年出版的《关于布里斯托尔附近圣文森特岩水质的一些探究》。
Also, some inquiries into the nature of the water of Saint Vincent's Rock near Bristol, published in 1676.
而且这个书名很吸引人，结果大受欢迎，卖得飞快。
And with its catchy title, proves a tremendous It's flying off the stealth.
对，确实如此。
Yeah, absolutely.
所以人们大体上，我想，是处于一个讲究礼貌、文明、优雅的时代。
And so people are generally, I suppose, it's the age of politeness, of civility, of gentility.
人们更加关注自己的健康。
People are more interested in their health.
在十八世纪，你会看到各种为了健康而牺牲自己的人。
You get all these sort of martyrs to their health in the eighteenth century.
人们想要逃离伦敦，那里蓬勃发展、不断扩张，但污染也越来越严重，而且越来越工业化。
And people are looking to escape booming, expanding, sort of increasingly polluted, indeed increasingly industrial London.
所以他们开始去巴斯。
So they start going to Bath.
巴斯以乔治亚风格重建，有了剧院，还有了泵房。
Bath is rebuilt in Georgian style, gets the theater and he gets the pump room.
所以到了十八世纪中叶，
And so by the middle of the
那是个圆形广场，对吧？
It's a circus, doesn't it?
对，就是那个环形广场。
It gets the circus, exactly.
你知道那个环形广场是模仿什么建的吗？
Do know what the circus was modeled on?
是不是……
Is it the...
这个嘛……
It's been
我们最近刚做过一期播客讲过这个。
the subject of a podcast we've done quite recently.
天哪。
Golly.
巨石阵。
Stonehenge.
是模仿巨石阵建的吗？
Is it modelled on Stonehenge?
所以它的比例是模仿巨石阵的。
So the proportions are modelled on Stonehenge.
而且因为环形交叉路口是现代英国环岛的原型，你可以说环岛也是对巨石阵的一种致敬。
And because the circus provides the model for the modern day British roundabout, you could say that the roundabout too is a An homage.
同样的巨石阵。
Of the same hench.
总之，我就是随便提一下。
Anyway, I just throw that out.
一个……
An...
那是……
That's...
如果听众们喜欢这个，请把你们的意见发给汤姆，别发给我。
If if listeners have enjoyed that, please direct your comments to Tom and not to me.
那么，汤姆，如果你在十七世纪四十年代或五十年代去巴斯度假，你会先去做什么？
So anyway, Tom, if you had gone to if you'd gone to Bath on holiday in let's say the seventeen forties or seventeen fifties, what would you have done first?
你到的第一件事会做什么？
What was your first thing have done when you you...
当你的马车，驿马车到达的时候，我……
When your coach, your stagecoach arrived in my I
我会先吸点鼻烟。
would have taken snuff.
嗯，那……
Well, would...
但接下来你会做什么？
But then what would you have done?
我会向女士们鞠躬。
I would bow to the to the ladies.
不错，但你该去见见博·纳什。
Not bad, but you should have gone to see Bo Nash.
当然，博·纳什。
Of course, Bo Nash.
对。
Yes.
因为骨灰是最重要的人物。
Because bone ash is the most important person.
给我讲讲骨灰的事。
Tell me about bone ash.
提醒我一下
Remind me
关于骨灰的事。
about bone ash.
所以骨灰就是那种自封的……
So bone ash is this sort of self appointed...
我们应该
I mean, we should
应该说不是骨灰，对吧？
say it's not bone ash, is it?
所以它不是那种烧过的骨头。
So it's not like kind of a burnt bone.
是Beau，B-E-A-U。
It's Beau, b e n u.
是Beau，就像法语里的‘美丽’那个词。
It's Beau as in the French word, beautiful.
我觉得他并不是真的叫Beau。
I don't think it was christened Beau.
我觉得那只是因为他有点花花公子的派头，就像博·布鲁梅尔那样。
I think that's just a sort of he's a dandyish Like of Beau Brummel.
如果你是新来的，他会来见你，然后决定你是否适合加入那个所谓的‘上流圈子’，也就是‘公司’。
He will meet you if you're a new arrival and he will decide whether suitable to join the sort of the smart set who are called the company.
这些人都是很有品味的那种。
And these are people who have kind of The bonton.
没错。
Exactly.
这些人能提前订到所有的桌子，而且我觉得他们还能帮你安排舞伴去参加舞会。
These are people who get to pre book all the sort of tables and who get to I think I would set you up with women to dance with the balls.
这些人还能去牌桌那边，跟对的人一起散步，诸如此类的事情。
These are people who get to go and join the card tables and sort of go walking with the right people and all of these kinds of things.
所以博纳什就像是那个关键人物，就像牡蛎一样。
And so Bonash is the sort of he is the sort of the oyster.
他是社交的推动者。
He is the social facilitator.
他就像个媒人，帮人牵线搭桥。
He is the, you know, he sets people with a matchmaker.
他帮人撮合。
He sets people up.
他把人们聚在一起。
He brings people together.
他就是个拉皮条的。
He's the pimp.
他就是个拉皮条的。
He's the pimp.
你真是这么说的。
Really what you're saying.
这么说有点太刻薄了。
It's a very harsh way of describing.
所以这有点像……
And so this is the sort of...
对，那就是巴斯。
Yeah, that's Bath.
你去那儿的话，基本上得相当有钱才行。
You know, you go there if you're basically you've got to be pretty well off, would say.
你得是贵族，或者是非常非常上层的、正在崛起的中产阶级。
You've got your aristocratic or your sort of very, very sort of high end of the kind of rising middle classes.
因为不然的话，你才不会想去那儿，免得被博纳什冷落，对吧？
Because you wouldn't wanna go otherwise and be snubbed by by bone ash, would you?
不会。
No.
你绝对会。
You absolutely would.
那太糟糕了。
That would be awful.
你下车...
You get off...
你从马车里出来，然后...
You get out of your coach and...
有个
There's a
很多十八世纪中后期的作品都在讽刺巴斯，说那里其实很糟糕。
lot of mid to late eighteenth century stuff satirizing Barth and saying it's it's actually awful.
而且那里的人其实都是最讨厌的人。
And all the people in this are actually, you know, just the most terrible people.
而且这……
And that...
这开创了一个贯穿整个《Absolutely》历史的趋势。
I mean, that is setting a trend that runs right the way through the history of Absolutely.
就是旅游和度假，对吧？
Tourism and holidays, isn't it?
就是那些变得非常时髦的地方，人们立刻就会反感，大家都讨厌它。
Is that places that become very fashionable, immediately people turn against them who are Everybody hates it.
那些自认为时髦的人。
Seen themselves as fashionable.
所以有一本托拜厄斯·斯莫利特写的很棒的书，叫《汉弗莱·克林克历险记》。
So there's a there's a brilliant book by Tobias Smollett called The Expedition of Humphrey Clinker.
而且里面有一个……
And there's a...
其中一个角色是个脾气很坏的威尔士乡绅，叫马修·布兰布尔。
One of the characters in that is this really grumpy Welsh squire called Matthew Bramble.
这是一部书信体小说，所以全部都是信件。
And it's an epistory novel, so it's all letters.
他给一个朋友写信说，我就不模仿威尔士口音了，因为我的威尔士口音会变成印度口音。
And he writes to one of his friends and he says, I'm not gonna do a Welsh accent because my Welsh accent just turns into Indian.
他说，你要知道，我在巴斯只感到失望，这里变化太大了，我几乎不敢相信这就是我三十年前常来的地方。
He says, you must know I find nothing but disappointment at Bath, which is so altered that I can scarcely believe it's the same place I frequented thirty years ago.
我相信你不会否认，这个地方，大自然和天意似乎本意是让人远离疾病和烦恼的，却已经变成了喧嚣和放纵的中心。
I believe you will not deny that this place, nature and providence seem to have intended as a resource from distemper and disquiet, has become the very center of racket and dissipation.
它可能是个全国性的医院，但你会觉得只有疯子才会被收进来。
A national hospital it may be, but one would imagine that none but lunatics are admitted.
说实话，如果我再在巴斯待下去，你完全可以叫我疯子。
And truly, I will give you leave to call me so if I stay much longer at Bath.
人们就是说，这地方不好。
You know, what people just say, it's a bad place.
你提到的其他地方，就是布莱顿。
Now the other places you mentioned, it was Brighton.
布莱顿也是，又是某个医生搞起来的。
So Brighton, again, it's a doctor who sort of sets that up.
所以布莱顿在十八世纪初还不叫布莱顿。
So Brighton wasn't even called Brighton at the beginning of the eighteenth century.
你知道它原来叫什么吗？
Do you know what it was called?
是不是叫布莱顿海姆之类的？
Brighton's Helm or something, isn't it?
布莱格姆海姆，差不多是这个名字。
Brigham's Helm or something something like that.
布莱特海姆斯顿，我觉得这个名字好听多了。
Bright Helmstone, which I think is a much better name.
当时有个当地的医生，叫理查德·拉塞尔，是他写的。
There was a doctor, a local doctor called Richard Russell, he wrote it.
你觉得那个标题挺吸引人的。
You thought that title was was catchy.
他写了一篇论文，叫《Der Tabae Glandulari》，基本上就是说你的淋巴腺有问题，海水能治好它们。
He wrote a dissertation called Der Tabae Glandulari, in which he basically said it was about your lymphatic glands and about how sea water would sort them all out.
喝海水，还有把身体泡在海水里。
Drinking seawater and immersing yourself in seawater.
这在医学上真的有道理吗？
Is this actually medically the case?
没有。
No.
还是他纯粹在编？
Or is he just making it up?
他就是在编
He's making
的。
it up.
如果有听众听了想试试，千万别这么做，尤其是美国听众，别到时候告我们，因为你们没按海水处方来。
Any listeners tempted to, please do not follow and do not then, especially American listeners, do not sue us, because you have followed no seawater prescriptions.
那会是个非常非常糟糕的主意。
That would be a very, very bad idea.
我想绝对要……
I want to absolutely...
想和罗素医生的建议划清界限。
Wanna distance myself from doctor Russell's.
但他们去那里喝海水。
But they go there and they drink seawater.
很多医生都这样。
Loads of doctors.
有个叫约翰·阿斯维特的人。
So there's a guy called dot John Aswitter.
还有个叫安东尼·雷伦的人，他们……
There's a guy called Anthony Rellen, and they are...
他们大量印发小册子和书籍，说：来这里，下海游个泳，喝点海水，你就能恢复健康。
They're pumping out pamphlets and books saying, come here, get in the sea, have a swim, drink a little sea water, you'll be as right as rain.
那是因为他们真的……
Is that because they they genuine...
我想他们确实相信这个。
I suppose they do believe it.
还是因为他们沿着海边买了一大堆诊所和旅馆？
Or is it because they've bought up a whole load of clinics and guest houses along the seafront?
嗯，医生。
Well, Doctor.
罗素医生，他是海水疗法的创始人，确实在布莱顿买了一块地。
Russell, who was the originator of the seawater business, he definitely bought a plot of land in Brighton.
是吗？
Did he?
他给自己买了地，还建了布莱顿最大的房子，用来安置病人，花园直接通向海滩。
And he bought himself, he built the biggest house in Brighton where he could put his patients and the garden opened onto the beach.
而且当然你可以……
And of course, you know, you could...
我是说，谁知道呢？
I I mean, who knows?
我不知道。
I don't know.
我觉得我们对他的了解还不够，没法判断他是出于明智的考虑，
I don't think we know enough about him to know whether this was him, you know, sensibly
是骗局还是
Scam or
还是利用他认为对人们最好的东西，或者是否……
Capitalizing on what he thought was best for people or whether...
这是不是……
Is it a...
其实我觉得从一开始就不是骗局。
I don't think it is a scam from the beginning, actually.
但话说回来，对他公平一点，
But I mean, be fair to him
我们太愤世嫉俗了。
we're being too cynical.
公平地说，他和其他那些江湖骗子。
To be fair to him and all these other quacks.
有没有可能他们确实发现了什么？因为在那之前，人们不会觉得海边有什么吸引力。
I mean, is a case, isn't there, for saying that that they are onto something Because presumably before this period people aren't going, you know, people are not seeing the seaside as anything attractive.
海边又野又危险，还是走私犯出没的地方。
It's kind of wild and dangerous and the haunt of smugglers and such like.
没错。
Exactly.
你根本不会靠近那里。
And you wouldn't go anywhere near it.
但实际上，人们确实发现大海有疗愈作用。
But in fact, people do find the sea restorative.
这就是为什么人们
I mean, that's why people
去
go to
海边。
the ocean.
我的意思是，如果有
Mean, if there's
任何听众……
any listeners...
毫无疑问，有很多听众一直在像我们一样对喝海水之类的想法发笑。
I mean, no doubt there are lot of listeners who have been chuckling as we have at the idea of drinking seawater and and all that stuff.
但我的意思是，我们有多少听众喜欢野外游泳，或者认为在海滩上走一段令人振奋的路会……
But I mean, how many of our listeners enjoy wild swimming or think that going for a really bracing walk on the beach, you know, will...
会让人神清气爽。
It'll blow the cobwebs away.
我总是这么说……
I mean, I say that to ever...
每次我们去海滩散步，我还没开口呢，我老婆就开始瞪我了。
You know, whenever we go for a walk on the beach, and just one of my...
我老婆说，你每次去散步都这么说。
My wife gets kinda glaring at me even before I say it.
她说，你总是说那句话。
She says, you always say
每次我们去散步的时候。
that when we go for a walk.
我都能想象你穿着脏兮兮的假发，拄着拐杖，穿着长外套，在鹅卵石海滩上大步走的样子。
I can really imagine you stumping along a kind of Shingle Beach with your your dirty wig and a staff and a frock coat.
没错。
Absolutely.
拿着拐杖对着那些时髦的家伙指指点点。
Shaking your stick at macaronis.
我会喝一大堆咸水吗？
Would I drink a load of salty water?
我就是觉得我可能会不守规矩。
I mean, I just think I wouldn't behave.
我会不会觉得恶心？
Would I be sick?
好吧，总之，对。
Well Anyway Yeah.
这，这把布莱顿变成了一个，一个很棒的，很棒的目的地。
This this turns Brighton into this, into this great sort of great destination.
人们去那里是为了……
People go there to take...
为了去尝尝海水，然后下海。
To sort of trick seawater and get in the get in the sea.
现在，重点来了。
Now here's the thing.
罗素医生，就是你说他是骗子的那个人，他在1759年去世了。
Doctor Russell, the guy who you've accused of being a scam artist, he dies in 1759.
他那栋大房子
And his huge house
喝了太多海水。
drinking too much seawater.
大概吧。
Presumably.
他死的时候，整个人都变成盐做的了。
He's he's made entirely of salt by the time of his death.
就像罗得的妻子一样。
Lot's wife.
他……
He's...
他们把他剖开，里面全是海藻。
They open him up and there's just seaweed inside.
好了，听我说。
Anyway, listen.
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