460. 启示录的女皇

让他上节目真是太好了。

Great to have him on the show.

他这个人对尼凯福罗斯非常不客气。

And he's the guy who who is very kind of rude about Nykepharos.

之所以这样，是因为教皇犯了一个严重的错误。

And the reason for that is that the pope has made an absolute howling mistake.

因为他在写给君士坦丁堡的信中，称对方为‘希腊人的皇帝’，而不是‘罗马人的皇帝’。

Because in the letters that he writes to Constantinople, he refers to the emperor of the Greeks rather than the emperor of the Romans.

真是个低级错误。

Schoolboy error.

这简直是典型的低级错误。

It's an absolute schoolboy error.

因此，尼凯福罗斯勃然大怒，拒绝与奥托的使团有任何来往，直接说不行。

And so Necophros is furious and refuses to have anything to do with Otto's embassy and says, no.

你别想娶公主。

You can't have a princess.

但当他被杀后，约翰·萨米斯基接替了他的位置，嗯。

But when he gets killed and John Samiskis takes his place Mhmm.

他急于巩固自己的政权，因此谈判可以重新开启。

He's anxious to buttress his regime, and so the negotiations can reopen.

啊，明白了。

Ah, okay.

因此，这就是西奥法诺抵达罗马的背景。

And so this is the context that sees Theophano arrive in Rome.

对。

Right.

在罗马，人们普遍认为西奥法诺是皇帝的女儿。

And it is assumed in Rome that Theophano is the daughter of the emperor.

所以是约翰的女儿。

So John's daughter.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，这一假设主导了这场婚姻，婚礼于4月14日在罗马由约翰十三世主持举行。

And so this is the assumption that governs the marriage, which takes place on the April 14 when John the thirteenth marries them in Rome.

但后来发现，她实际上并不是他的女儿，而是他的继侄女。

But it then subsequently turns out that she's not actually his daughter, that she's his step niece.

而且，奥托随从中有些人说，这事儿不行。

And, you know, there are people in Otto's entourage who say this isn't this isn't on.

她是残次品。

She's damaged goods.

我们应该把她送回去，要求退款。

We should send her back, get a refund.

但奥托说不行，部分原因我想是因为这太丢脸了。

But Otto says no, partly, I think, because it would be too embarrassing.

但我也觉得，尽管狄奥法诺当时只是个十几岁的少女，大约十四、十五岁，他却能真正看到她的不凡之处。

But also, I think, because even though Theophano is only a young girl, she's kind of 14, 15 by this point, he can really see something in her.

他能看出她是一位令人印象深刻的女人。

He can see that she is an impressive, impressive woman.

所以总结一下，汤姆，她已经嫁给了奥托大帝的儿子。

So just to recap, Tom, she has been married to the son of Otto the Great.

他也叫奥托。

Who is also called Otto.

所以是小奥托，对。

So Otto junior Yeah.

他是一个矮胖、红发的人。

Is a fellow who you describe as squat and ginger haired.

他就是罗恩·韦斯莱。

He's Ron Weasley.

是的。

Yeah.

他们不会把她送回去。

And they're not gonna send her back.

他们不会把她送回去。

They're not gonna send her back.

而且，她是不是

And, also, is she a

一个不错的选择？

bit of a catch?

是的。

Yes.

但我认为她正如我们将会看到的那样，是一位非常非常出色的女人。

But I think she's well, as we will see, she's a very, very impressive woman.

这很重要，因为这是拉丁基督教世界的一个时期。

And that matters because this is a period in Latin Christendom.

有影响力的女人在一定程度上是重要的角色，这可能让一些人感到惊讶。

Powerful women are players to a degree that some people might find surprising.

好的。

Okay.

因为你可能会认为这是一个满是毛茸茸的男人挥舞着剑互相厮杀的时期，确实如此。

Because you might think this is a period of, you know, hairy men savaging each other with swords, and it is.

但保罗琳·斯塔福德——这位研究这一时期强势女性的伟大作家——称之为女性的世纪。

But it's a period that Pauline Stafford, who's a great writer on the subject of of powerful women in this period, she calls it the century of women.

所以我们提到了马罗齐娅，是的。

So we've mentioned Marozzia Yeah.

罗马的妓女。

The Roman porne.

我认为加诸于她的种种污名，揭示了女性作为权力玩家所面临的某些惩罚。

I think the abuse that is shoveled on her shows some of the penalties that women run if they are power players.

但也有许多强大的女性被铭记为伟大人物。

But there are examples of very powerful women who who are commemorated as great figures.

所以埃塞尔斯坦的姑姑，麦西亚的女领主埃塞尔弗莱德，是的。

So Aethelstan's aunt Aethelflaed, the lady of the Mercians Yeah.

她在英格兰联合王国的形成过程中扮演了至关重要的角色。

Who plays a, you know, a great role in the the knitting together of The United Kingdom Of England.

但真正重要的是奥托家族。

But it's really the Otonians.

正是奥托家族及其王朝最清晰地体现了这一点。

It's the family, the dynasty of Otto that you see this most clearly.

是的。

Yep.

他的妹妹，有个非常出色的名字叫盖尔伯格

So his sister, who has the brilliant name Gerbergher

好的。

Okay.

她嫁给了后来成为法国国王的人。

She marries king of what will become France.

所以，如果你想想，当时有德意志王国，还有我们姑且称之为法兰克王国的政权。

So if you think of, you know, there's the German kingdom and there's the what let's call it the French Kingdom.

对。

Yeah.

法兰克王国。

The Frankish Kingdom.

她嫁给国王，为他生了八个孩子，但丈夫在儿子年仅13岁时去世。

And she marries the king, has eight children by him, but her husband dies while her son is is still only 13.

于是她担任摄政。

And so she rules as regent.

我的意思是，她负责管理那个王国。

I mean, she is responsible for the running of that kingdom.

是的。

Yeah.

你还有奥托的妻子，名叫阿德莱德，她是勃艮第国王的女儿，勃艮第是那些位于中间地带的王国之一，比如洛林。

And you also have Otto's wife, who is a woman called Adelaide, and she is the daughter of the king of Burgundy, which is one of those kind of kingdoms, Lotharingia, kind of down the middle.

是的。

Yeah.

当奥托在罗马加冕并受膏时，她也与他一同加冕并受膏。

And when Otto is crowned in Rome and anointed, she is crowned and anointed alongside him.

所以她是一位皇后。

So she is an empress.

她是一位女皇帝。

She is an imperatrix.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

一位女皇帝奥古斯塔。

An imperatrix Augusta.

提奥法诺也是如此。

And so is Theophano.

提奥法诺也有同样的地位。

Theophano has the same thing.

这种王后可以被祝圣的理念——这种圣油将她们提升到一种神圣不可侵犯的地位——并不仅仅惠及国王。

And this idea that queens can be consecrated, that this holy oil, which elevates them to a kind of a sacrosanct status, it's not just kings who are benefiting from that.

她们的王后和皇后也同样受益。

Their queens and their empresses do as well.

那么，我可以说，这神圣化了？

And this then, can I say, sacralizes?

听起来你就要这么说了。

Sounds like you're going to.

她们在宫廷中所扮演的角色。

The role that they play in the court.

是的。

Yeah.

因为宫廷里没有任何事情是私密的。

Because nothing in a court is private.

每个女性所做的事情，尤其是女王，都是公开的。

Everything that a woman does, especially if she's the queen, is public.

她的职责是向丈夫求情、请求宽恕、照顾病人、向穷人施舍、负责织造供祭司和教堂使用的法衣与挂毯。

It's her role to intercede with her husband, to ask for mercy, to care for the sick, to distribute alms to the poor, to be responsible for the weaving of the vestments and the tapestries that will adorn the priests and the churches.

而且这一切都非常非常公开。

And it's all very, very public.

而女王所扮演的角色会极大地影响到国王。

And the role played by the queen reflects massively on the king.

所以如果女王行为不端、作风不检或声誉受损，就会对国王造成非常负面的影响。

So if the queen is kind of rubbish or sleeping around or loses her reputation, then that reflects very badly.

是的。

Yeah.

但同样，如果她因虔诚和关心臣民而受到尊敬，这对国王来说就非常有利。

But equally, if she is respected for her piety and as someone who cares for her subjects, then that's brilliant for the king.

极其有利。

Absolutely brilliant.

而且，我明显感觉到这一时期女王权力的上升，但你是在主张，或者说有人认为，这种现象是前所未有的，对吗？

And, obviously, I get the sense of a rise in the power of queens in this period, but you're arguing that or there is an argument that this is new Yes.

也就是说，女性在这段时间被赋予了比八世纪或七世纪更多的权力。

That women are being given more power than in the eighth or seventh century or whatever.

因为此前，例如在东罗马帝国，就曾有过女性统治者。

Because there had been, for example, women rulers in the Eastern Roman Empire.

之前也有伊朗人之类的。

There'd been Iranian so on and so forth.

好吧，我们稍后再谈这个。

Well, we'll come to that.

所以我们现在只讨论法兰克传统，还有盎格鲁-撒克逊传统。

So we're just talking about the Frankish traditions at this point, and indeed the Anglo Saxon traditions too.

但在拉丁西方，女王的地位确实有所提升。

But in the Latin West, definitely, there is a rise in the relative status of queens.

有一位编年史家提到，有权势的不仅仅是女王。

So there's a chronicler who says about powerful it's not just queens.

我的意思是，还有贵族女性。

I mean, it's it's aristocrats as well.

在这个世界里，宫廷中的权势女性，她们坐着，而周围的人都站着。

The powerful women in this world, the Etonian court, they sit while all around her people stand.

对。

Right.

所以，她是一个多米诺、一位女性领主、一位贵妇，我想，但她的地位远不止于贵妇。

So this idea that she is a domino, a female lord, a lady, I suppose, but it's more than a lady.

‘Dominus’几乎超越了皇帝的地位。

A dominus is almost more than an emperor.

这是一个拥有巨大权力的形象。

It's a figure of of enormous power.

因此，圣母就是一位‘domino’。

So the Virgin is a domino.

她是天堂的‘domino’。

She is the domino of heaven.

对。

Right.

在某种意义上，女王们扮演着圣母的角色，我们会看到这一点正是《神显》大力强调的。

And there's a sense in which queens are kind of playing the part of the virgin, and we will see that this is something that Theophany makes great play with.

我认为这在一定程度上与神学上的变化、关于涂油礼等观念有关。

And I think it's partly to do with kind of theological changes, notions about anointing and and and all that.

但我认为这也很简单，因为男性比女性更容易死亡，他们要打仗、打猎，做些疯狂的事情，比如互相扔骨头。

I But think it's also the simple fact that men are likely to die than women because they're fighting, they're hunting, they're, you know, doing mad things, kind of throwing bones at each other.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，由于这种神圣的地位，女性能够担任摄政的角色，就像格布尔格那样。

And so this then means that women, because of this sacrosanct status, are able to play a role as regents, as Geburger does.

那么，你知道在这一确切时期是谁担任了这个角色吗？

So do you know who did that at this exact period?

圣奥尔加。

Saint Olga.

对，没错。

That's right.

基辅的奥尔加。

Olga of Kyiv.

她的丈夫去世了。

Her husband died.

他被德列夫利亚人撕碎了，我想是这样。

He was torn apart by, I think, the Derevlians.

是的。

Yes.

她在这样一个充满男性气息的世界里成为了摄政王，也就是基辅罗斯的世界。

And she ended up as regent in a very masculine world, the world of the kind of the Rus' in Kyiv.

所以，再次说明，一个女人之所以能扮演这个角色，是因为她经验丰富——其实她并没有。

So, again, a woman playing because she's experienced well, she's actually not.

她还很年轻。

She's quite young.

但因为你知道，她不会在战场上丧生。

But because, you know, she's not gonna die in battle.

对吧？

Right?

嗯，她是一个令人畏惧的权力象征。

Well, she's a figure of terrifying power.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，你知道的，那种带着鸟儿和其他各种东西突袭城镇的做法。

I mean, you know, kind of dive bonging towns with birds and all kinds of things.

是的

Yeah.

活埋人，各种恶作剧。

Burying people alive, all kinds of japes.

对

Yes.

所有这类事情。

All that kind of stuff.

是的

Yeah.

因此，在基辅、英格兰、法国或后来成为德国的地区，如果需要，女性就被期望扮演这种角色。

So this is a period where in Kyiv or in England or in France or in what will become Germany, women are expected to play this role if required.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，如果统治者太年轻或者类似情况的话。

You know, if a ruler is is too young or whatever.

因此，当奥托大帝在九月去世时，这就引发了一种有趣的紧张局势。

And so this then sets up an intriguing tension when in September, Otto the Great dies.

因此，就在他的儿子奥托二世（原名小奥托）与狄奥法诺成婚不到一年后。

So barely a year after his son, Otto junior, who now becomes Otto the second, has married Theophanu.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当然，背景中还潜伏着奥托大帝的妻子阿德莱德，是的。

And, of course, you have lurking in the background Adelaide, Otto the Great's wife Yeah.

她本应承担关键角色，因为狄奥法诺当时才十五六岁，是的。

Who would have the expectation that she should play the key role because Theophino is still 15, 16 Yeah.

此时此刻。

At this point.

那么问题来了，她的角色将会是什么？

And so the question then is what is her role going to be?

她能否为自己开辟出一个独特的角色，还是会由这位强势的前皇后、勃艮第国王的女儿牢牢地压在阴影之下？

Is she gonna be able to carve out a distinctive role for herself, or is she going to be put firmly in the shadow by the imperious ex empress and daughter of the king of Burgundy?

真有戏剧性。

What drama.

我想我们会在接下来的内容中找到答案。

And I think we should find out when we

等到第二部分再说吧。

come to the second half.

真是个吊人胃口的结尾。

What a cliffhanger.

欢迎回到《历史的其余部分》。

Welcome back to The Rest is History.

汤姆，紧张感从未如此强烈过。

The tension has never been greater, Tom.

我们即将得知提奥法诺在公公奥托大帝去世后的角色，这位萨克森的铁腕人物自视为西方的凯撒。

We're about to find out the role that Theophanu plays after the death of her father-in-law, Otto the Great, the great hard man of Saxony who sees himself as a as a Caesar in the West.

但在我们了解提奥法诺的表现之前，我想问你，到目前为止，我们对她性格有任何了解吗？

But just before we find out how Theophanu does, can I ask you, do we have any sense of her personality at this point?

关于她的记载相互矛盾，我认为这些矛盾反映了不同派系各有动机，倾向于强调某一方面。

There are contradictory reports, and I think these contradictory reports reflect the fact that there are contradictory factions who have reasons to emphasize one thing or another.

因此，要真正了解她作为一个真实个体的性格，我觉得非常困难。

So I think it is very difficult to get a handle on, you know, what she was like as an actual person.

但正如我们将从她的表现和政绩中看到的，有一点我们可以肯定：她能力非凡。

But I think that as we will see from her performance, her record, one thing we can be sure of, she is awesomely competent.

是的。

Mhmm.

因为，她的处境非常微妙。

Because, I mean, she's in a very tricky position.

她是个外国人。

She's a foreigner.

她是个十几岁的少女。

She's a teenager.

她有一位极具威慑力的婆婆。

She has a massively intimidating mother-in-law.

她可能不会说这种语言。

She probably doesn't speak the language.

我的意思是，身处这种境地确实很尴尬。

I mean, it's it's an awkward position to be in.

是的。

Yeah.

然而，有利的一面是，她是被册封的皇帝妻子，即奥古斯塔皇后。

However, the upside is is that she is the anointed wife of an emperor, an emperoratrix Augusta.

因此，她有机会利用我们之前讨论过的那些因素——萨克森宫廷乃至更广泛的人群愿意给一位有权力的女性机会去施展才华。

And so she has scope to make play with all the things that we were talking about before, this sense that people in the Saxon court and beyond are willing to allow a powerful woman a chance to do her stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为她作为外国人的身份实际上对她有利，因为很明显，撒克逊人并不完全确定该如何看待她。

And I think the fact that she is a foreigner actually works to her advantage because it's pretty clear that the Saxons aren't entirely sure what to make of her.

因此，确实有一些人对她感到怀疑和不满。

So there are certainly those who who are suspicious of her and resentful of her.

所以你问大家是怎么看待她的。

So you asked how do people think of her.

有些人说她话太多了。

There are people who say she talks too much.

没错。

Right.

这是一种非常希腊式的行为。

That this is a very Greek thing.

因此他们说她傲慢地喋喋不休。

So they talk of her insolent prattling.

安静。

Hush.

但也有其他人说，你知道，她是一个非常严肃、庄重且谦逊的女性。

But there are others who say, you know, this is a tremendously serious, solemn, and modest woman.

然后编年史家补充道，这在希腊人中当然是罕见的。

And then Chronicler adds, which is, of course, a rare thing in a Greek.

所以我认为，你在这里可以看出，她的行为显然不是撒克逊式的。

So I think you see there the sense that her behavior is is obviously not Saxon.

但正因为她与众不同，带来了对事物不同的理解方式，这反而帮了她。

But the very fact that she is distinctive, that she brings a different way of understanding things helps her.

我认为这非常重要，因为显然，她确实有敌人，其中阿德莱德是最突出的一个。

And I think this is really important because, obviously, she does have she has enemies of whom Adelaide is the most notable.

阿德莱德讨厌她。

Adelaide hates her.

她称提奥法努为那个希腊女人，那个希腊女孩。

She refers to Theophanu as that Greek woman, that Greek girl.

她从不直呼她的名字。

She never calls her by name.

对。

Right.

首先，她坚决要求她的儿子奥托二世始终牢牢受她掌控。

And to begin with, she is very determined that her son, Otto the second, is going to remain firmly under her thumb.

因此，她跟随这对幸福的夫妇去到每一个地方。

So she follows the happy couple everywhere that they go.

她本质上试图以摄政身份统治，而狄奥法诺对此坚决反对。

She is essentially trying to rule as regent, and Theophanyu is having none of this.

在她丈夫登基后一年内，她和阿德莱德就阿德莱德是否能用她在德国的土地来实现自身目的爆发了严重冲突。

And within a year of her husband becoming king, she and Adelaide having massive bust ups about whether Adelaide can use the lands that she has in in Germany to further Adelaide's own purposes.

最终，狄奥法诺赢了这场争斗。

And, basically, Theophany wins that.

对。

Right.

奥托王朝宫廷内部出现严重分裂，而这种分裂因另一个强大对手的存在而加剧——这个对手不仅针对狄奥法诺，也针对她的丈夫奥托二世。

And the sense of a kind of a massive cleavage in the heart of the Ottonian court is heightened by the fact that there is another big adversary that not just Theophany, but her husband Otto the second has.

这是奥托二世的叔叔，巴伐利亚公爵，人称‘好斗的亨利’。

And this is Otto the second's uncle, who's the duke of Bavaria, who rejoices in the brilliant name of Henry the quarrelsome.

他确实非常好斗。

And he is indeed quarrelsome.

而且这种争斗没完没了。

And there's just kind of endless rouse.

一切都围绕着谁有权任命主教之类的事情。

It's all about who gets to appoint bishops, all that kind of stuff.

我的意思是，这些细节其实没那么重要。

I mean, the details aren't that important.

对。

Right.

他基本上想成为施瓦本公爵。

Basically, he wants to become the duke of Swabia.

换句话说，他根本想当国王。

I mean, basically, he wants to become the king.

整个九月里，各种冲突层出不穷。

And there are all kinds of bust ups throughout the September.

奥托不断囚禁亨利·科拉尔苏姆，释放他，然后再把他抓回去。

Otto is endlessly imprisoning Henry the Coralsum, letting him go, imprisoning him again.

到了九月，已经爆发了公开战争。

And by September, there's been open warfare.

亨利·科拉尔苏姆被俘，交给了乌得勒支主教，后者在奥托二世余生中一直将他监禁。

Henry the Coralsum has been captured, handed over to the bishop of Utrecht, who keeps him in prison for the rest of Otto the second's life.

我认为这肯定损害了阿德莱德的声誉，因为她被视为与好斗的亨利站在一边。

And I think that this definitely damages Adelaide because she is seen as having been aligned with with Henry the quarrelsome.

我认为这极大地提升了提奥法努的地位。

And I think that really helps Theophanu's status.

是的。

Right.

当然，帮助提奥法努的另一件事是，这不仅关乎她个人的品质，正如你前半部分所暗示的，她代表了一个比萨克森宫廷更为精致的宫廷。

And, of course, the other thing that helps Theophanu is that it's not just her personal qualities, but as you were kind of alluding to in the first half, that she is the embodiment of a much more sophisticated court than the Saxon court.

是的

Yeah.

而那当然就是君士坦丁堡的宫廷。

And that, of course, is the court at Constantinople.

有一些萨克森贵族站在亨利·好斗者和阿德莱德一边，反对提奥法诺，他们对此感到不满，基本上说奥托二世已经希腊化了。

And there are Saxon noblemen who side with Henry the Quarrelsome and Adelaide against Theophanue who resent it, who basically say, Otto the second has gone Greek.

你知道，他不再是个哥们儿了。

You know, he's no longer one of the lads.

对。

Right.

他不再像以前那样敲骨头、啃骨髓，把骨头扔来扔去，开玩笑打闹了。

He's no longer kind of cracking open bones and gnawing out the marrow and throwing it at people and japing.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，这有点像人们说哈里王子的情况。

I mean, it's a bit like what people say about, you know, prince Harry.

他以前是个小伙子，现在却因为娶了外国妻子变得怪里怪气的。

He used to be a lad, and now he's gone all weird with his foreign wife.

对。

Right.

所以有点像那么回事。

So it's kind of slightly like that.

好的。

Okay.

但狄奥法诺能提供的是奥托大帝一直想要的那种高贵气质。

But what Theophanue can provide is basically what Otto the Great had wanted, which is a sheen of class.

威望。

Prestige.

罗马的威望。

Roman prestige.

是的。

Yeah.

优雅气质。

Sophistication.

因此，她对宫廷的行为方式产生了巨大影响。

So she has a massive influence on the way the court behaves.

她带来了各种丝绸长袍和众多珠宝。

So she brings all these kind of silk robes, all these jewels.

我的意思是，萨克森地区没人见过这样的东西。

I mean, no one in Saxony has seen anything like it.

是的。

Yeah.

她每天洗澡。

She takes a daily bath.

前所未有。

Unheard of.

查理曼大帝喜欢洗澡，但人们通常不会每天洗澡。

Mean, Charlemagne liked to bath, but people are not normally taking a bath every day.

绝对的盛况。

Absolute scenes.

而且，她非常著名地将一种令人着迷的新餐具引入了餐桌。

And very famously, she introduces to the table, the dining table, a fascinating new ornament.

因此，一位编年史家描述它为一个金色的双叉，用于将食物送入口中。

So it's described as a golden double prong, which brings food to the mouth by a chronicler.

所以，这是一种叉子。

So it's a fork.

叉子的发明者。

The inventor of the fork.

但她并没有发明它。

But she doesn't invent it.

我的意思是，拜占庭人早就有了，但她把它带了过来。

I mean, the Byzantines have it, but she brings it.

是的。

Yeah.

我对你说实话。

I'll be frank with you.

我不相信西欧人之前从未见过叉子。

I don't believe that people in Western Europe had never seen forks before.

我的意思是，她用的是金制的叉子，对吧？

I mean, it's golden fork that she has, isn't it?

我没那么怀疑。

I'm less I'm less skeptical.

因为我觉得你会用叉子来翻动和烤东西。

Because I think you'd use a fork for spitting and roasting things.

你可能会用剑，但关键是双齿的，对吧？

You might use a sword, but the kind of it's the double prong, isn't it?

双齿。

Double prong.

这才是关键。

That's the key.

谢天谢地，她没有用三齿的叉子。

Thank God she didn't have a fork with three prongs.

那可就太惊人了。

That would have been really shocking.

我知道。

I know.

我不知道是谁引进的。

I wonder who introduced that.

但这不仅仅是礼仪的问题，显然不是。

But it's not just manners, obviously.

这是君主的处事方式，在君士坦丁堡，这是数百年罗马仪式的传承。

It's the way of being an emperor that in Constantinople is the legacy of centuries and centuries of Roman ritual.

是的。

Yeah.

而正如你所提到的，这部分还包括拉丁西方对王后和皇后神圣角色的重视。

And part of that, again, as you suggested, is that this emphasis in the Latin West on the sacral role played by queens and empresses.

对于狄奥法诺而言，这融合了一种拜占庭式的观念，即皇后是皇帝的对应者。

With Theophanu, it fuses with a kind of Byzantine sense that the empress is the counterpart of the emperor.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是她的角色。

That that is her role.

我认为狄奥法诺显然完全接受了这种观念。

And I think that Theophanu obviously completely buys into this.

这种理念与她在拉丁西方所见到的非常契合，同时又提升了其庄严与尊严。

And it's an approach that fuses very easily with what she finds in the Latin West but elevates and dignifies it.

这甚至比阿德莱德所熟知的任何事物都更加宏伟。

It's even grander than anything that Adelaide had known.

狄奥法诺能够成功驾驭这一切，因为她显然具备一种非凡的戏剧感、庄严感、从容与优雅。

And Theophanu is able to carry it off because she clearly has a kind of incredible sense of theater, of dignity, of poise, of sophistication.

我认为许多萨克森人喜爱这一点，因为他们知道，君士坦丁堡的皇帝传统上一直轻视法兰克人，视他们为野蛮人。

And I think that lots of Saxons love this because they are aware that the emperor in Constantinople traditionally has looked down on the Franks as barbarians.

是的

Yeah.

所以当克雷莫纳的利普兰德最初去请求尼卡佩罗斯时，能否赐予一位公主？

So when Lipprand of Cremona goes to ask Necaperos at the beginning, can we have a princess?

结果被拒绝了。

And gets rebuffed.

我的意思是，他对所有受到的冷遇都满腹牢骚。

I mean, he's full of complaints at all the snubs he gets.

你知道，他曾经坐在保加利亚人之下。

You know, he's he's sat beneath a Bulgarian.

他得到的食物很差。

He's given bad food.

他没有得到好的住宿。

He's not given good accommodation.

他抱怨希腊人软弱、娘娘腔、长袖、戴帽、蒙面、撒谎、性别模糊、懒惰。

He complains that the Greeks are soft, effeminate, long sleeved, hooded, veiled, lying, gender fluid, idle creatures.

更雪上加霜的是，他在君士坦丁堡市场上买的所有丝绸都被海关官员没收了。

And then to rub salt into his wounds, all the silks that he's bought in the market in Constantinople get confiscated by customs officials.

因此，怨恨极其深重。

So massive, massive resentment.

是的。

Yeah.

但十八年前他来的时候，受到一位友善得多的皇帝热情款待，过得非常愉快。

But he'd been eighteen years earlier and had a splendid time hosted by a much friendlier emperor.

他非常喜欢那段经历。

And he'd loved it.

而且他当时是被邀请进来的。

And he'd been invited in.

他像古罗马人一样斜倚在躺椅上，享用着金盘盛装的丰盛美食。

He'd reclined on a couch like, you know, like an ancient Roman eating sumptuous meals off golden dishes.

各种各样的器官从地板上冒出来。

All kinds of organs spring up from the floor.

金盘装着水果从天花板上降下来。

Gold dishes of fruit descend from the ceiling.

有一种奇怪的现象。

There's a kind of weird thing.

有一个大力士用额头平衡一根杆子，两个年轻小伙子在杆子上上下奔跑，表演魔术。

There's a strong man who he balances a kind of a pole on his forehead and kind of two young lads run up and down this pole doing magic tricks.

我的意思是，这太奇怪了。

I mean, it's very weird.

是的。

Yeah.

你可能会觉得这是编造的，但你在哈里发的宫廷里也能看到同样的场景。

And you think that that was made up, but you get the same thing from the court of the caliphs.

这显然是中东帝国的一种传统表演。

It's clearly a kind of Middle Eastern imperial thing that's done.

克雷莫纳的利奥普兰德认为这太了不起了。

And Leoprand of Cremona thinks this is tremendous.

所以我认为你能从他身上看到事情的本质。

So I think you get in him what's going on.

这是一种钦佩、着迷与怨恨的混合。

It's this blend of admiration, fascination, and resentment.

典型的文化自卑。

Classic cultural cringe.

对吧？

Right?

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

因此，狄奥法诺，你知道的，她优雅动人。

And so Theophanu is, you know, she's elegant.

她身着丝绸。

She's silken.

她佩戴着珠宝。

She's bejeweled.

她给奥托带来了一丝君士坦丁堡的奢华气息。

And she gives to Otto a kinda a touch of the glamour of Constantinople.

而奥托当然非常喜爱这一点。

And Otto, of course, absolutely loves this.

这使她能够在宫廷政治中成为一位举足轻重的人物。

And it enables her to become a really heavyweight player in the game of court politics.

她最终让阿德莱德退居勃艮第。

So she sees off Adelaide who ends up retiring to Burgundy.

她随丈夫四处出行。

She accompanies her husband everywhere.

她被视为值得前去结交的人。

She is seen as someone who who it's worth approaching.

她扮演着皇后向丈夫斡旋的经典角色。

She's playing that classic role of the queen who intercedes with her husband.

是的。

Yeah.

她对餐桌礼仪有着非常大的影响。

And she's very, very influential on table manners.

所以现在大家都开始使用叉子了。

So everyone's using forks now.

小巧的金叉子。

Little golden forks.

没错。

Exactly.

宫廷的奢华程度大大提升。

Huge increase in in court splendor.

我认为，圣母玛利亚的呈现方式也发生了非常有趣的变化。

And I think a very interesting change in the way that the Virgin Mary is presented.

我们之前谈到过，圣母被视为天堂宫廷的主宰。

So we talked about how the Virgin is seen as the dominor of the court of of heaven.

正是在这一时期，圣母开始被描绘成拜占庭女皇的形象，佩戴珠宝、身着丝绸，对吧。

It's in this period that the Virgin starts to be portrayed as a Byzantine empress, so with the jewels and the the silks Right.

这显然反映了提奥法诺对自己的呈现方式。

Which is obviously a reflection of how Theophano is presenting herself.

她给了奥托这种阶级感，而在九月，她尽职尽责地为他生了一个儿子。

And giving Otto all this kind of, you know, this sense of class, and then in September, she absolutely does her duty by giving him a son.

多米尼克，你能猜出奥托二世、奥托一世的儿子叫什么吗？

And, Dominic, can you guess what the son of Otto the second, the son of Otto the first is called?

奥托。

Otto.

当然。

Of course.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

It is.

肯定会叫奥托，对吧？

It's gonna be Otto, isn't it?

是的。

It is.

很多都是奥托的。

A lot of Otto's.

这太好了。

So this is great.

所以到980年，奥托有了一个儿子。

So Otto is feeling you know, by nine eighty, he's got a son.

他送走了好斗的海因里希。

He's seen off Henry the quarrelsome.

他有一位出色的妻子。

He's got a brilliant wife.

他很有品位。

He's classy.

是的。

Yeah.

他拿着他的叉子。

He's got his fork.

是的。

Yeah.

正在洗澡。

Having a bath.

简直太棒了。

Absolutely brilliant.

过着梦想中的生活。

Living the dream.

他觉得自己现在已经准备好翻越阿尔卑斯山，像他父亲那样重新确立对意大利的权威。

And he feels that he's now ready to cross the Alps and reassert his authority over Italy in the way that his father had done.

因为，显而易见，作为罗马皇帝，如果连罗马都管不了，那确实有点尴尬。

Because, obviously, as an emperor of the Romans, it's a bit embarrassing if you can't actually, you know, rule in Rome.

要成为一位皇帝

And to be an emperor

他必须加冕。

He gotta be crowned.

所以，汤姆，有个大问题。

So, Tom, big question.

他已经被封为皇帝了吗？

Has he been crowned emperor?

因为你要在罗马加冕才能成为皇帝，不是吗？

Because you have to be crowned in Rome, don't you, to become emperor?

否则，你只是个国王。

Otherwise, you're just king.

他已经加冕了。

He has been.

他在他父亲还在世时就已加冕，就像狄奥法内一样。

He was crowned while his father was still alive, as Theophany was as well.

哦，有意思。

Oh, interesting.

所以她才是女皇。

So that's why she is an imperatrix.

他才是皇帝。

He is an imperator.

是的。

Yeah.

他们是一对帝后夫妇。

They are an imperial couple.

但当然了，如果你没有坐在罗马，你就不能真正成为罗马人的皇帝。

But, of course, you can't really be an emperor of the Romans if you're not sat in Rome.

对。

Yeah.

所以这就是他去那里的原因。

So that's why he goes there.

他在11/09/1980年翻越了阿尔卑斯山。

He he crosses the Alps in 11/09/1980.

到春天时，他已经抵达罗马。

By spring, he has arrived in Rome.

他正在举行宫廷会议。

He's holding court.

我认为，很难不感受到，身边有来自新罗马、君士坦丁堡的公主狄奥法诺相伴，提升了他的眼界，拓展了他的格局，让他萌生了想要比父亲更彻底地以凯撒身份统治的念头。

And I think it is hard not to feel that the presence beside him of Theophanu, a princess from the new Rome, from the city of Constantine, kind of raises his horizons, expands his horizons, and makes him think he would like to rule more completely as a Caesar than his father had done.

而以凯撒的身份统治，某种程度上意味着必须统治意大利。

And to rule as a Caesar kind of requires you to rule Italy.

我的意思是，这里是罗马帝国的故土。

I mean, this is the homeland of the Roman Empire.

是的。

Yeah.

而这本质上成为了他的计划。

And, essentially, this becomes his plan.

他将征服意大利。

He's going to conquer Italy.

但现在这有两个巨大的问题，因为南方有两个非常危险的对手。

Now there are two massive problems with this because there are two very, very menacing adversaries in the South.

而其中第一个，当然是拜占庭。

And the first of these, of course, is Byzantium.

是的。

Yeah.

因为如果意大利要成为罗马的，那到底是哪个罗马？

Because if if Italy is to be Roman, which Rome?

没错。

Right.

正是如此。

Exactly.

实际上，奥托大帝和南方的拜占庭驻军早在十年前就曾互相交战。

And, actually, Otto the Great and the Byzantine garrisons in the South, you know, they'd actually been fighting each other about a decade before.

显然，与约翰·齐米斯西斯签订的和平条约已经解决了这个问题。

Obviously, the peace treaty with John Tsimiskes had sorted that out.

西奥法努已经抵达了。

Theophanu had arrived.

你可能会以为这会带来和平。

You'd think it would be peace.

那么，他怎么可能还想着与拜占庭开战呢？

So how can he possibly think of going to war with Byzantium?

答案是，到这个时候，约翰·齐米斯克斯本人已经被刺杀，据称是被一个宦官下毒取代了。

Well, the answer is is that John Tsimitsky's, by this point, has been himself assassinated and replaced, poisoned by a eunuch, it is claimed.

而西奥法努对杀害她姑父的凶手极为敌视，显然在鼓动奥托前去讨伐。

And Theophanu is incredibly hostile to the murderers of her uncle-in-law and is clearly encouraging Otto to go down and have a crack at it.

对。

Right.

当然。

Of course.

因此，西奥法努本人很可能在想，不如先把这些篡位者赶出意大利，但接着为什么不继续呢？

So presumably, Theophanu herself is thinking, you know, let's start by kicking these usurpers out of Italy, but then why not go on?

为什么不成为统一的罗马帝国的女皇呢？

Why not become empress of of a united Roman empire?

是的。

Yeah.

而她现在是儿子的母亲，这个儿子身上流淌着君士坦丁堡和罗马皇室的血脉。

And she is now the mother of a son who has the blood of the imperial families, both of Constantinople and of Rome in his veins.

所以，你说，为什么不呢？

So, you know, why not?

让我们重新统一罗马帝国吧。

Let's reunite the Roman Empire.

这真是太令人振奋了。

So that's all very exciting.

我认为，西奥法诺无疑在影响着奥托，推动他实现这些野心。

And I think that Theophany was undoubtedly influencing Otto in his, you know, his kind of ambitions for this.

但当然，还有非基督教、非罗马的敌人，那就是萨拉森人，法蒂玛王朝。

But, of course, there are also non Christian, non Roman enemies, and that is the Saracens, the Fatimid caliphate.

是的。

Yeah.

西西里有一些不同的埃米尔，他们是附属统治者，资助着在意大利沿海航行并洗劫意大利的各个海盗舰队。

There are kind of various emirs, kind of subordinate rulers in Sicily who in turn sponsor the various pirate fleets that are sailing up the seaboard of Italy and just stripping Italy bare.

因此，到这个时候，所有古罗马城市基本上都被遗弃了，因为太危险了。

So all the old Roman cities, basically, by this point have been abandoned because it's too dangerous.

如果你想象一下，经常开车穿越意大利的人，尤其是在南部，村庄和城镇都建在山上。

And if you think about, you know, people who've driven through through Italy, often, particularly in the South, villages and towns are up on hills.

它们并不像罗马时期那样位于平原上。

They're not down on the plains where they had been in the Roman period.

是的。

Yeah.

这是因为你必须待在高处，否则就会被掳走当奴隶。

And that's because you have to be up there because otherwise you're gonna be taken away as a slave.

他们的奴隶贸易运作极其精密。

They have unbelievably sophisticated slaving operations.

他们有一群人专门负责抓捕和奴役过程中的不同角色。

They have people who take on different roles in the process of enslavement of rounding people up.

他们甚至威胁到了罗马本身。

And they've been menacing Rome itself.

你知道，他们曾经一度洗劫了圣彼得大教堂。

You know, they've kind of sacked Saint Peter's at one point.

我认为奥托也担心，这一时期撒拉森人的势力正在膨胀，海盗活动愈发频繁，他为罗马的安全感到担忧。

And I think Otto also is worried that there seems to be a swelling of Saracen power in this period that the pirates are becoming more active, and he's afraid for Rome.

因此，这也关乎对他们进行先发制人的打击。

So it's also about having kind of preemptive strike at them.

他们是从西西里发动袭击的。

And they're striking from Sicily.

对吧？

Right?

他们是沿着海岸线从西西里发起袭击的。

They're striking up the coast from Sicily.

是的

Yeah.

因此，1982年9月1日，奥托率领一支被称为洛拉卡蒂的重装骑兵大军出发，提奥法纽也与他同行。

So 01/09/1982, Otto heads off at the head of a kind of great army of what are called Loracati armored horsemen, and Theophanyu is riding with him.

他们进入拜占庭领土，奥托对拜占庭驻军说：我以基督徒的身份前来。

They cross into Byzantine territory, and Otto says to the Byzantine garrisons, I come as a Christian.

我以凯撒的身份前来。

I come as a Caesar.

我以罗马人的身份前来。

I come as a Roman.

与我联合吧。

Join with me.

让我们集中资源，一起去进攻西西里的萨拉森人。

Let's pool our resources and go and attack the Saracens in Sicily.

拜占庭驻军拒绝了。

The Byzantine garrisons refuse.

奥托失去了耐心。

Otto loses his patience.

他围攻了处于拜占庭统治下的托伦托，攻占后正式宣布自己为整个罗马世界的皇帝。

He invests Torento, which is under Byzantine rule, captures it, and then formally proclaims himself emperor of the entire Roman world.

他为此的辩护是，拜占庭人怯懦懦弱，拒绝与他共同参与这场伟大的战争。

And his justification for this is that the Byzantines are cowardly, that they have refused to join him in this great war.

因此，他们不再有资格被称为罗马人。

Therefore, they no longer have any right to the name of Roman.

他们也不再配称为基督教世界的屏障。

They no longer deserve to rank as the shield of Christendom.

奥托现在应当作为唯一的皇帝统治。

Otto now should rule as sole emperor.

所以有一个重要问题。

So an important question.

这仅仅是形式上的吗？

Is that just performative as it were?

这只是因为他知道这有利于公关吗？

Is that just he knows it's good PR?

还是他真的相信，在短期到中期之内，他能重新统一罗马帝国的两个部分？

Or does he genuinely think that within the short to medium term, he will unite the two halves of the Roman Empire again?

我认为是后者，原因我们会在本集末尾谈到，这深受狄奥法诺的深刻影响。

I think the latter, for reasons we'll come to at the end of this show, and it's massively influenced by Theophanus.

明白了。

Okay.

我认为狄奥法诺拥有真正的地中海全域视野。

I think that Theophanus has a properly pan Mediterranean vision.

她熟悉君士坦丁堡。

She is familiar with Constantinople.

她熟悉罗马。

She's familiar with Rome.

她熟悉萨克森。

She's familiar with Saxony.

我认为她之所以这么想，原因并不完全是地缘政治性的，而是神学上的，我们稍后会谈到这个具体原因。

I think that she, for reasons that are not entirely geopolitical but theological, we'll come to that particular reason.

我认为她确实相信，一个整个罗马帝国重新统一的时代即将来临。

I think she does think a time is approaching when the whole Roman Empire will be reunited.

好的。

Okay.

不幸的是，事情并不顺利，奥托试图击败萨拉森人的行动彻底失败了。

Unfortunately, it doesn't go well, and Otto's attempt to defeat the Saracens is a complete disaster.

因此，在七月，他们遭遇了一支庞大的萨拉森舰队和军队。

So in July, they meet with a massive Saracen fleet and army.

奥托战败了。

Otto is defeated.

他不得不逃离战场，向一位路过的犹太人借了一匹马，骑着它冲进海里，最后被一艘拜占庭桨帆船救起，极其耻辱。

He has to escape the battlefield, borrows a horse from a passing Jew, rides it out into the sea, gets picked up by a Byzantine galley, very, very humiliating.

是的。

Yeah.

他的敌人。

His enemies.

是的。

Yeah.

所以奥托对救他的人说：但愿你的皇帝，我的兄弟，在我危难之时能成为我忠诚的朋友。

So so Otto says to the guy who's picked him up, let us hope that your emperor, my brother, will be a loyal friend to me in my time of need.

哇哦。

Woah.

你改变说法了？

You've changed your tune?

是的。

Yeah.

他改变说法了。

He's changed his tune.

他骑马返回，与提奥法诺会合。

And he he gets rode back, and he meets up with Theophanu.

狄奥法诺对他非常愤怒，狠狠斥责了他，说她的臣民绝不会如此鲁莽。

And Theophanu is furious with him, kind of bollocks him, and says that her countrymen would never have been so rash.

好的。

Okay.

这对奥托尼安人来说可不是好兆头，对吧？

This doesn't bode well for the Otonians Right.

如果她说东罗马人绝不会如此彻底地搞砸这次行动，那他们又怎么可能成为罗马世界的主宰呢？

Becoming masters of the Roman world if she's saying, you know, the Easterners would never have made this total holics of, you know, the operation.

是的。

Yeah.

从这一点开始，一切彻底恶化了。

So it all goes horribly wrong from this point on.

幸运的是，西西里的指挥官，那位埃米尔，在胜利时刻阵亡了，这意味着萨拉森人的进攻没有原本可能造成的破坏那么严重。

Fortunately, the Sicilian battle leader, the Emir, has fallen in his hour of victory, which means that the Saracen onslaught is not as devastating as it would otherwise have been.

但这意味着奥托必须留在意大利，以加强罗马和北意大利抵御萨拉森人袭击的防御。

But it means that Otto has to stay in Italy to shore up the defenses of Rome and Northern Italy against Saracen raids.

与此同时，在德国，消息传到了萨克森，并跨越易北河传到了斯拉夫人，特别是温德人那里。

And meanwhile, up in Germany, of course, the news has arrived in Saxony, and it's crossed the River Elbe to the Slavs, the Wends in particular.

是的。

Yeah.

那些人每次想预知未来，都会去问马。

The guys who, whenever they want to know what's gonna happen, ask a horse.

我们以前聊过他们。

We've talked about them before.

他们抓住了这个机会，发动叛乱，推翻了奥托王朝的统治。

And they seize their opportunity, and they rise in rebellion, and they overthrow Ottonian power.

他们烧毁了那里所有建起来的教堂，就这样结束了。

They burn all the churches that have been built there, you know, and that's it.

丹麦人不是也被卷入了阿扎尔吗？

And the Danes get stuck in Azar, don't they?

丹麦人袭击了谢斯菲格。

The Danes attack Shesfig.

丹麦人被困在哪儿了？

Danes get stuck in?

是的。

Yeah.

谢斯菲格-荷尔斯泰因地区爆发了冲突。

Shesfig Holstein question breaks out.

他们正在进攻，你知道的，一切都乱套了。

They're they're attacking, and it's, you know, it's all a disaster.

我认为，奥托之所以派特奥法诺越过阿尔卑斯山去设法解决局势，正体现了他对她的信任，而他自己则忙于意大利，试图稳定那里的局面。

It's a measure, I think, of Otto's trust in Theophanu that he sends her north of the Alps to try and sort the situation out while he is busy in Italy trying to stabilize the situation there.

特奥法诺带着她三岁的儿子，幼童奥托一同前往。

And Theophanu takes her three year old son, the infant Otto.

这是一场经过精心安排的选举。

It's been a kind of stage managed election.

他已被立为与父亲共同执政的皇帝。

He's been named co emperor with his dad.

她带着一大本日记前往维罗纳。

Big kind of diary to Verona.

然后她向北行进。

And then she goes north.

她去了亚琛，那里是查理曼的王座，查理曼宏伟的宫殿。

She goes to Aachen where the throne of of Charlemagne, great palace of Charlemagne.

而且，那个小男孩在那里再次加冕。

And, again, the little boy is crowned there.

所以，你知道，她仍然非常注重仪式，加冕典礼，诸如此类的事情。

So she's, you know, she's still very into her ritual, her crowns, all that kind of thing.

随后危机加剧，因为12月7日，奥托在意大利死于疟疾，哦。

And then the crisis gets worse because on the December 7, Otto dies in Italy of malaria Oh.

他被安葬在圣彼得大教堂。

And is buried in Saint Peter's.

事实上，他是唯一一位被埋葬在罗马的神圣罗马帝国皇帝。

And actually is the only holy Roman emperor to be buried in Rome.

所以，你知道，局势看起来完全绝望了。

So, you know, the situation seems completely hopeless.

南方有撒拉森人。

You've got Saracens in the South.

还有已经反叛的文人。

You've got the Wens that have rebelled.

是的。

Yeah.

你还有这些桀骜不驯的贵族。

You've got all these fractious noblemen.

王位上是个三岁的小男孩，到处都是趁火打劫的人，看起来灾难重重。

You've got a a three year old boy on the throne, scavengers everywhere, looks disaster.

但西奥法诺稳住了局势，而且不仅仅是稳住了局势。

But Theophanus steadies the ship and more than steadies the ship.

她让萨克森地区安定下来。

She makes Saxony.

太好了。

Great again.

你知道，

You know,

她稳定了边境。

she stabilizes the frontiers.

她与瑞典人、丹麦人以及基辅的大公弗拉基米尔达成了和约。

She patches up treaties with the Swedes, with the Danes, with Vladimir the Great in Kyiv.

是的。

Yep.

还有多米尼克与巴西尔二世。

And Dominic with with Basil the second.

保加利亚屠夫巴西尔。

Basil the Bulgar slayer.

对。

Yes.