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此处印刷托马斯·蒙茅斯作品所依据的手稿，是目前唯一已知的副本。
The manuscript from which the work of Thomas of Monmouth is printed here, and it is the only copy of his work which is known.
该手稿曾属于一个图书馆，约在1700年，由一位名叫爱德华·科尔曼的先生遗赠给萨福克郡布伦特埃利教区，他曾是剑桥大学三一学院的成员。
Formed part of a library bequeathed about the year 1700 to the parish of Brent Ely in Suffolk by a certain mister Edward Coleman, sometime of Trinity College Cambridge.
该收藏包括九份手稿，其中两份具有非同寻常的价值。
The collection included some nine manuscripts, and among them were two of no ordinary interest.
其中之一是苏格兰的圣玛格丽特福音书，于1887年被博德利图书馆购入。
One was the gospel book of Saint Margaret of Scotland, which was purchased by the Bodleian Library in 1887.
另一份则是包含圣威廉生平的卷册。
The other was the volume containing the life of Saint William.
九份手稿中有七份如今藏于剑桥大学图书馆。
Seven out of the nine manuscripts are now in the university library at Cambridge.
由于我自己在某种程度上促成了这些书籍的获得，因此我怀着极大的热情
And since I'd been myself, to some extent, instrumental in procuring these books, it was with ex
你做得非常好，多米尼克。
You're doing so well, Dominic.
你做得真好。
You're doing so well.
当我仔细查阅时，我无比欣喜地发现，这正是托马斯·蒙茅斯所著的《圣威廉传》的抄本，而且似乎没有其他副本流传于世。
It was with extreme pleasure that on examination, I discovered first that here was a copy of Thomas of Monmouth's Life of Saint William, and next, that no other copy seemed to be known.
这部手稿以优美的笔迹——可能出自一人或两人之手——书写在优质的羊皮纸上，采用双栏排版。
It is written in a fine hand or two hands on good parchment in double columns.
它仍保留着原始的木制封面，过去用皮带和销钉固定。
It retains its original wooden boards, formerly fastened by strap and pin.
其年代应早于1200年。
Its date, should place somewhat before 1200.
所以，如果你喜欢鬼故事，尤其是维多利亚晚期到二十世纪初的经典鬼故事。
So if you like ghost stories, especially the classic ghost stories of the late Victorian, early twentieth century period.
在Spotify上，大家可能已经看到我做过一种类似招魂的举动。
People in the Spotify would have seen I did a sort of necromantic gesture.
是的。
Yes.
你确实做到了。
You did.
非常吓人。
Very frightening.
它唤起了圣诞鬼故事的氛围，多米尼克，尽管我们是在六月录制的。
It evoked the spirit of a Christmas ghost story, Dominic, even though we're recording this in the June.
太好了。
That's great.
听好了。
Well, listen.
如果你喜欢鬼故事，你就会认出这是蒙塔古·罗德斯·詹姆斯的文风，M.R.詹姆斯，他的鬼怪故事通常发生在东盎格利亚的教堂里。
If you love a ghost story, you will recognize there the prose of Montague Rhodes James, m r James, whose tales of ghosts and of horrific goings on, usually in churches in East Anglia.
它们无疑是写得最令人毛骨悚然的故事。
They are surely the most chilling stories ever written.
他于1896年写下了这段文字，到四十年后去世时，他已经建立了国际声誉，不是吗，汤姆？他被誉为鬼故事的莎士比亚，恐怖故事的狄更斯，恐怖故事的莫扎特。
And he wrote that passage in 1896, and by the time of his death forty years later, he had established an international reputation, hadn't he, Tom, as the he was the Shakespeare of the ghost story, Dickens, the Mozart of the horror story.
我想我的意思是，他唯一可能的当代竞争对手，要称得上是最伟大的恐怖故事作家，恐怕就是美国的H.P.洛夫克拉夫特了。
I guess I mean, his only conceivable contemporary rival for the title of the greatest horror story writer would have been HP Lovecraft in America.
而洛夫克拉夫特非常钦佩M.
And Lovecraft was a huge admirer of M.
R.
R.
詹姆斯，他笔下那种轻盈的笔触所唤起的恐惧与恐怖，以最震撼的形式呈现，无疑将作为黑暗领域中为数不多真正富有创造力的大师之一而长存。
James and wrote doctor James for all his light touch evokes fright and hideousness in their most shocking forms and will certainly stand as one of few really creative masters in his darksome province.
我认为你在朗读中，真正强烈地唤起了那种恐惧与恐怖的感觉。
And I think that you, in that reading, really powerfully evoked that sense of fright and hideousness.
很好。
Good.
表面上看，这段文字相当枯燥。
Ostensibly, that's quite a boring passage.
但天哪，那种寒意直窜脊背
But my goodness, the chills that went down
读的时候脊背发凉。
the spine as you read it.
就是说，
That, like,
我读这段话整整录了三十遍才完成。
literally took about 30 takes for me to read that and get through it.
在进入今天的话题之前，我们先聊聊詹姆斯的一些作品，谈谈他故事的特点，以及你为什么选择以他开篇。
So let's just talk about some of James's before we get into today's subject, talk a little bit about some of James's stories and their characteristics and why you've chosen to kick off with him.
他的许多经典作品，比如挖掘撒克逊王冠之类的，通常设定在东盎格利亚的平坦田野上，那片土地构成了一种阴郁而略带超自然的背景。
So many of his stories, the really kind of canonical ones like digging up Saxon crowns and all of that kind of thing, they're often set in the kind of flat fields of East Anglia, which form this sort of brooding, slightly unearthly kind of landscape backdrop to the tales.
故事常常围绕教堂、大教堂或图书馆之类的地方展开。
And they're often about a church or a cathedral or a library or something like that.
因此，主角通常是学者。
So the the protagonist is often a scholar.
所以我希望传达出学术的气息。
So I was hoping to convey scholarship.
你确实做到了，多米尼克。
You really did, Dominic.
很好。
Good.
因为我知道我自己的声音根本达不到那个水平。
Because I knew my own voice would not be up to it, actually.
没有。
No.
你说话的样子就像那位了不起的广播剧演员一样。
You spoke like the the incredible radio actor that you've become.
你不是演过《神探夏洛克》之类的剧吗？
Because you were in Sherlock and Co, weren't you?
所以你演过什么角色来着？
So you've played a what was it?
你演过一个脾气暴躁的律师，被指控杀害了一名建筑工人，现在你又演了一个有可怕秘密要揭露的年迈学者。
An irascible solicitor accused of killing a builder, and now you've played an elderly scholar with something terrible to reveal.
literally 没有任何角色是我胜任不了的，汤姆，我觉得这么说很公平。
Literally no role is beyond me, Tom, I think it's fair to say.
是的。
Yeah.
因为这部作品不仅设定在像东安格利亚的大教堂城市，还涉及一位对古代历史有专门知识的学者，故事情节通常围绕发现某种古物展开。
Because as well as being set in, say, an East Anglian cathedral city, as well as featuring a scholar with a kind of specialist knowledge of the ancient past, the plot will often revolve around the discovery of some antiquarian object.
所以它可能是一只哨子，你吹响哨子，某种可怕的东西就会出现，或者更常见的是，一份被遗忘已久的古籍。
So it might be a whistle, you blow on the whistle and something terrible comes, or more commonly, an old forgotten manuscript.
而这种极其古老的古物的发现——无论是哨子还是手稿——都会从坟墓中唤起某种古老而不可名状的恐怖。
And the discovery of this kind of very ancient antiquarian object, whether it's a whistle or or a manuscript, will conjure up from the grave some ancient unspeakable horror.
而这种恐怖的巨大之处在于，这种远古的恐怖如今被释放到了现代世界。
And a huge part of the horror is that this ancient horror is now unleashed on the modern world.
而你刚才精彩朗读的那段文字，正是出自这本书，其中包含了所有这些元素。
And all those elements are present in the book from which that passage you so magnificently read comes from.
这本书名叫《圣威廉·诺里奇的一生与奇迹》。
And it's a book called The Life and Miracles of Saint William of Norwich.
但是，多米尼克，关键在这里。
But, Dominic, here's the thing.
这本书不是一部小说。
That book is not a work of fiction.
这真是个重磅消息。
What a bombshell.
它确实是一本真实的书。
It's actually a real book.
它是一本事实性的著作。
It's a it's a factual book.
它是一本真实的书。
It's a real book.
当詹姆斯写下关于学者发现古代手稿，并被手稿中召唤出的墓中恐怖所困扰的恐怖故事时，我的意思是，他深知自己在说什么，因为他本人就是一位杰出的学者。
So when James wrote horror stories about scholars discovering ancient manuscripts and being haunted by the terrors conjured up from the grave that he finds in these manuscripts, I mean, he knew whereof he spoke because he was himself a very distinguished scholar.
在他的一生中，他曾担任剑桥大学菲茨威廉博物馆馆长、剑桥大学国王学院院长，以及剑桥大学副校长。
And over the course of his career, he served as director of the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge, the Provost of King's College, also in Cambridge, and the vice chancellor of Cambridge University, also in Cambridge.
对。
Right.
所以那里正在形成一个东盎格利亚的主题。
So there's a a an East Anglian theme developing there.
他还发现了一片手稿碎片，从而在东盎格利亚的巴里圣埃德蒙兹发现了多位12世纪修道院院长的墓葬，并且有一些非常诡异的照片，展示了打开的墓穴和里面躺着的修道院院长的骸骨。
He also discovered a manuscript fragment that led to the discovery in Barrie Saint Edmunds, also in East Anglia, of the graves of various twelfth century abbots, and there's some very eerie photos showing the opened tombs and the skeletons of the abbots lying in them.
而且，正如你刚才精彩朗读的那段文字所述，他还为剑桥大学图书馆搜集了大量中世纪手稿。
And also, as described in the passage that you read so brilliantly, he sourced the large number of medieval manuscripts for the Cambridge University Library.
他的著作《诺维奇的圣威廉生平与奇迹》就是关于其中一份手稿的。
And his book, The Life and Miracles of Saint William of Norwich, is about one of those manuscripts.
它描述的不仅是一个孩子的谋杀，更是一种恐怖的诞生，我认为这种恐怖远超詹姆斯在其鬼故事中所描绘的任何一种，至今仍萦绕在世界上。
And it describes not just the murder of a child, but the birth of a horror, I think, infinitely greater than any of those that James portrayed in his ghost stories and which still stalks the world to this day.
而且那里有个小小的线索，不是吗？那份名为《诺维奇的圣威廉生平与奇迹》的手稿主题，出现在詹姆斯1895年写的一个故事里。
And there's a little clue, isn't there, the theme of that manuscript, the life and miracles of Saint William of Norwich, in a story that James wrote in 1895.
那个故事叫《失落的心灵》。
And that story is called Lost Hearts.
能给我们讲讲这个故事吗？
So tell us a bit about that story.
这大概是他正在准备和可能编辑《正确》的时候。
This is presumably while he's preparing and maybe editing Right.
那本关于圣威廉的书，是在次年出版的。
The book on Saint William that comes out the year later.
这是一个非常短的故事。
It's a very short story.
所以你知道，你可以在线阅读它。
So for you know, you can access it online.
读完它大约只需要十分钟。
It will take you about ten minutes to read.
它讲述了一个12岁的孤儿男孩，被他年长许多的表亲邀请去小住，这位表亲是一位研究古代宗教仪式、尤其是晚期古代宗教的杰出学者。
And it describes a young orphan boy who's aged 12, who is invited to stay with his much older cousin, who's a very distinguished scholar of ancient cults, particularly in late antiquity.
他住在那里后，开始看到两个孩子的幽灵。
And he stays there, and he starts to see the ghosts of two children.
当他近距离看到他们时，他意识到这些孩子的心脏被切除了，胸腔被砸开，心脏被掏走。
And when he sees them up close, he realizes that these children have had their hearts cut out, that their chests have been smashed open and their hearts removed.
因此，有一天晚上，他的表亲召唤他深夜过去，但在表亲到来之前，小男孩提前到了那里，发现那里有一个香炉，还有一个装满红色液体的旧银鎏金杯子，那液体看起来像红酒，但可能另有他物。
And so when the summons comes one evening from his cousin to come to him late at night, and before the cousin has arrived, the little boy goes there early, and he finds us a brazier there and an old silver gilt cup full of what looks to be red wine, but might be something else.
他的表亲正从一个圆形的银盒中往香炉里撒一些香料。
And his cousin sprinkling some incense on the brazier from a round silver box.
你知道，这暗示着事情不妙。
You know, the implication is this isn't great.
是的。
Yeah.
他的前景并不乐观。
The prospects aren't good for him.
这不会是个愉快的夜晚。
This isn't gonna be a fun evening.
因此，在撰写诺维奇的圣威廉生平与奇迹时，詹姆斯显然反复思考着仪式性儿童献祭这一主题。
So the theme of a ritualized child sacrifice was evidently much on James's mind as he was preparing the life and miracles of Saint William of Norwich.
有了这样的铺垫，听众可能会好奇：这个文本究竟讲的是什么？
And so with that kind of preview, listeners may be wondering, well, what what is this text about?
为了提供一些背景信息。
Well, just to give some context.
这部作品写于十二世纪下半叶，正如詹姆斯所说，大约在公元1200年之前，由一位来自威尔士蒙茅斯的修士托马斯撰写。他在本世纪中叶，即十一月到十一月之间，加入了诺里奇的一座修道院，这座修道院隶属于诺曼征服后在当地建造的大教堂。
It was written in the second half of the twelfth century, so as James said, shortly before the year 1200, by a monk from Monmouth in Wales called Thomas, who sometime between November and November, so the middle of the century, had joined the monastery in Norwich, which is in East Anglia, and this monastery was attached to the cathedral that had been built there in the wake of the Norman conquest.
托马斯·蒙茅斯讲述的故事核心是一起谋杀案。
And the story that Thomas of Monmouth tells has at its heart a murder.
事件发生的时间是1144年3月，距离诺曼征服几乎已过去一个世纪。
And the date is March 1144, so almost a century after the Norman conquest.
这起谋杀案的地点是索普伍德，那是一片位于诺里奇市以北的荒原林地，而诺里奇位于东盎格利亚的东北部。
And the setting for this murder is Thorpe Wood, which is a wooded stretch of the heathland that rises north of the city of Norwich, and Norwich is is in the the Northeast Of East Anglia.
整个情节围绕着圣周发生的事件展开。
And the plot is centered around events that happen in holy week.
因此，根据托马斯的说法，在受难日的晚上，一道炽烈的光芒突然从天而降，落在了这片树林中。
So on the evening of Good Friday, according to Thomas, a fiery light suddenly flashed down from heaven and descended on the wood.
这一奇特的现象被一位修女目睹，她是诺曼贵族莱加尔达夫人的遗孀。
And this strange phenomenon is witnessed by a nun who is the widow of a Norman aristocrat called the Lady Legarda.
莱加尔达夫人和其他几位修女凝视着这一非凡的现象，发现那道光仍在林中持续燃烧。
And the Lady Legarda and various other nuns gaze out at this extraordinary phenomenon, and they see that the light is continuing to blaze in the wood.
而且，正如托马斯·蒙茅斯所言，这道光似乎分裂成两道光束，形成了一架极长的梯子，从地面延伸至东方的天空。
And it seems, and I quote Thomas of Monmouth, to divide into two rays, which took the shape of a very long ladder extending from below into the sky to the eastward.
因此，第二天黎明时分，莱加尔达夫人和她的几位修女同伴起身了。
So at dawn the next day, Lady Legarda and various of her fellow sisters get up.
那天是复活节星期六，她们仍前往森林中调查。
It's Easter Saturday, but they head out into the woods to investigate.
她们来到之前看到光芒升起的地方，发现那竟是一棵橡树。
And they go to the place where they had seen the light rising, and it turns out to be an oak tree.
在橡树的一根枝条上，莱加尔达夫人发现——同样，我引用托马斯的话——一个男孩穿着夹克和鞋子，头发被剃光，身上布满了无数刺伤。
And there hanging from one of the branches of the oak tree, Lady Legarda discovers, and again, I quote, a boy dressed in his jacket and shoes, his head shaved and punctured with countless stabs.
天哪。
Oh, no.
根据托马斯·蒙茅斯的说法，各种食腐鸟类，如乌鸦等，围绕着尸体盘旋，试图啄食，却无法落在尸体上。
And according to Thomas of Monmouth, various carrion birds, so ravens and so on, are circling around the body trying to feed on it, but they can't settle on the body.
因此，这具尸体似乎被某种超自然力量保护着，免遭亵渎。
And so it seems that the body is being protected from desecration by some supernatural power.
是的。
Right.
莱加尔达走近尸体。
Legarda approaches the corpse.
她和她的修女们赶走了食腐鸟类。
She and her sisters drive off the carrion birds.
她们为尸体祈祷。
They pray over the body.
然后，正如我引述的那样，她将男孩托付给他的救世主，与同伴们满怀喜悦地返回了家。
And then again, I quote, commending the boy over to the care of his savior, she returned home with her companions rejoicing.
人们可能会觉得，为一个悬挂在树上的男孩的尸体感到喜悦有点奇怪。
And people may think it's a bit odd to rejoice over the corpse of a boy who's hanging from a tree.
她之所以欣喜，是因为她知道这个男孩在某种程度上必然是上帝所圣洁的，因此 presumably 已被接引至天堂。
She's rejoicing because she knows that the boy in some way must have been holy to God, and therefore presumably has been taken up to heaven.
于是，男孩的尸体被悬挂在树上，而莱加达夫人和她的修女同伴们则离开了。
So the corpse of the boy is left hanging from this tree as Lady Legarda and her fellow nuns head off.
不久之后，一位名叫亨利·德·斯普罗斯顿的林务员骑马进入森林，他寻找的不是偷猎者，而是非法砍伐木材的人，因为东盎格利亚地区木材严重短缺。
And shortly afterwards, a forester called Henry de Sproston rides into the wood, and he is looking for, not for poachers, but for people illegally harvesting timber because there's quite a shortage of timber in East Anglia.
诺维奇是一座繁荣的城市。
Norwich is a boom town.
他要确保没有人非法砍伐木材。
He wants to make sure that people aren't illegally removing the timber.
在森林里，他发现了一名正在砍伐木材的农夫。
And in the forest, he finds a peasant who is removing timber.
显然，这名农夫担心自己会被逮捕。
And clearly, the peasant is anxious about being taken into custody.
于是他说：你肯定不会相信。
And so he says, you'd never believe it.
那边，有个男孩吊在树上。
Over there, there's a boy hanging from a tree.
因此，亨利·德斯普罗斯顿显然分心了。
And so Henry Desprousson is obviously distracted.
他走到尸体所在的地方，仔细检查了尸体。
And he goes over to where the body is, and he investigates the corpse.
他发现，这个男孩除了被刺伤外，还被一根带有绳结的绳子极其残忍地塞住了嘴巴。
And he finds that the boy, in addition to being stabbed, has been very, very brutally gagged with a piece of rope with knots in it.
当绳子在嘴里收紧时，绳结深深嵌入了后脑。
So kind of the as the the rope has been tightened in his mouth, the knots have gouged into the back of the head.
真是太可怕了。
So very horrible.
天哪。
Jesus.
那么，我们知道这个男孩是谁吗？
So do we know who the boy was?
德斯帕里森对此展开了调查，很快就认出了这个男孩。
Well, Despariston investigates this, and it doesn't take long for him to identify the boy.
结果发现他是一名名叫威廉的皮革学徒。
And it turns out to be an apprentice leather worker called William.
这名皮革学徒年仅12岁。
And this apprentice leather worker is 12 years old.
就像M.R.詹姆斯故事里那个有着阴险表亲的男孩一样。
So like the boy in MR James's story who, you know, has the sinister cousin.
是的。
Yeah.
在《失落的心》里。
In Lost Hearts.
威廉一直在诺维奇工作。
William, he's been working in Norwich.
他原本来自乡下。
Originally, he'd come from the countryside.
这并不意味着他是个没受过教育的农民。
This doesn't mean that he was an uneducated peasant.
看来，除了母语英语外，他还懂一些法语，甚至可能懂一点拉丁语。
It seems that as well as his native English, he spoke a a smattering of French and maybe even a bit of Latin.
关于这起案件——诺维奇的威廉之死，E.M.罗斯有一项精彩的研究。
And there's a brilliant study of of this case, the murder of William of Norwich by e m Rose.
她对威廉可能的背景做了大量研究，并推测他的父亲很可能是一名铸币匠。
And she's done a lot of research into the possible background of William, and she suggests that his father may well have been a moneyer.
因此，这对他来说是一种非常有上升潜力的职业。
So that's a very kind of upwardly mobile job for someone to have.
我们确切知道他的叔叔是一名神父，因为正是这位名叫戈德温的神父，根据托马斯·蒙茅斯的记载，正式辨认了尸体。
And we know for sure that his uncle was a priest, because it's this priest, Godwin, who, according to Thomas of Monmouth, formally identifies the body.
到戈德温前来辨认尸体时，威廉已经被埋在了树林里，也就是在未祝圣的土地上。
And by this point, when Godwin comes to identify the body, William has already been buried out in the woods, so in unconsecrated ground.
他们挖出了尸体，当尸体被抬出来时，发生了一个奇迹。
And they exhume the body, and when the body is brought out, an absolute miracle.
尽管自他们怀疑他被杀害以来已经过去了这么多天，但尸体却完全没有腐臭气味。
Though so many days had passed by since the time when they suspected he had been put to death, yet there was absolutely no bad smell perceptible.
但更令人惊叹的是，尽管当时周围从未有过任何花朵或芳香草木生长，却有春日花朵与香草的芬芳飘散在所有在场者的鼻尖。
But what seemed more deserving, their wonder, was that though there was never a flower then or any sweet smelling herb growing thereabout, yet there the perfume of spring flowers and fragrant herbs was wafted to the nostrils of all present.
因此，这表明尸体完好无损，而完好无损的尸体是圣洁身份的绝对标志。
So what this suggests is that the body is intact, and an intact body is an absolutely certain signifier of a kind of saintly status.
你可以想想圣卡斯伯特，他的遗体在多塞特大教堂安葬之前，曾历经漫长的迁徙，游历了东北部各地。
So you think of of Saint Cuthbert buried in Durham Cathedral after many, many wanderings around the Northeast.
圣卡斯伯特遗体的完好状态，正是他圣洁的象征。
The intact nature of Saint Cuthbert's body is the marker of his sanctity.
因此，威廉似乎也是被上帝接纳、纳入怀抱的蒙福者之一。
And so it seems that William, likewise, is one of the the blessed who has been gathered up into the arms of God.
所以这是一个非常、非常神秘的案例。
So it's a very, very mysterious case.
这确实是个非常神秘的案子，汤姆。
So a very mysterious case, Tom.
凶手是谁？还是有多个凶手？
Who was the killer, or was there more than one killer?
这是一起集体行为，还是一种仪式性的行为？
Was it a was it a collective thing or a ritualistic thing?
为什么要塞住嘴？为什么有这么多刺伤？
Why the gag, and why so many stab wounds?
既然他父亲是诺里奇的铸币匠，为什么这个男孩最初会在树林里？
Why was William, this boy, even in the wood in the first place if his father is a is a moneyer from Norwich?
还是他先在诺里奇被杀，然后尸体被移到树林？或者他是被带到树林里才被杀害的？
Or was he killed in Norwich and then his body moved to the wood, or was he taken to the wood to be killed?
哎呀，波洛，这里疑点太多了。
Well, a lot of mistress there, Poirot.
但首先，我们为什么不把这件事放在历史背景中来看呢？
But first of all, why don't we put this into the its historical context?
因为我怀疑这会非常关键，因为我们正处在无政府状态时期。
Because I suspect that will be really important because we are in the anarchy.
所以是十一月，这场战争发生在玛蒂尔达——亨利一世的女儿——和她的表亲之间，对吧？
So November, and this is the war between Matilda, Henry the first's daughter, and her, what, cousin?
斯蒂芬，布洛瓦的斯蒂芬，是个糟糕的国王。
Stephen, Stephen of Broy, who is a is a terrible king.
嗯，我的意思是，他正忙于打内战，而且这场战争持续了相当长的时间。
Well, yeah, I mean, he's he's busy fighting a civil war, and it goes on for, you know, for ages.
所以实际上，从十一月到十一月。
So actually from November to November.
因此在十一月，我们正好处于这场战争的中心。
So in November, we're absolutely bang in the middle of it.
这一点被彼得伯勒的一位编年史家详细记录下来，而彼得伯勒距离诺维奇大约六十英里。
And it's famously described by chronicler in Peterborough, which is about 60 miles from Norwich.
所以这里正处于东盎格利亚风暴的中心，那是一个基督与他的圣徒都在沉睡的年代。
So very much in the eye of the East Anglian storm, as a time when Christ and his saints sleep.
因此我们可以相当确定，这位在彼得伯勒撰写编年史的人，当时正在更新《盎格鲁-撒克逊编年史》，而这部编年史在十月之后仍在继续记录。
So we can be fairly confident that when this chronicler in Peterborough who is updating the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, which is still going at this point even after October.
他描述了武装匪帮在乡间游荡，针对任何可能有钱的人，抢劫并杀害他们。
And he's describing how armed gangs of thugs are roaming the countryside, targeting anyone who might have money, robbing them, killing them.
他所描述的显然是诺里奇和彼得伯勒周边乡村的真实状况。
He is definitely describing conditions that prevailed in the countryside around both Norwich and Peterborough.
为了展现《盎格鲁-撒克逊编年史》中关于无政府状态恐怖的片段，他说，就连殉道者也从未遭受过这些受害者所经历的酷刑。
And just to give a passage from the Anglo Saxon Chronicle on the the horrors of the anarchy, no martyrs were ever tortured as these victims, so the victims of the the robbers were.
他们被倒吊着拇指或头发，铁甲被挂在脚上。
They were hung by the thumbs or by the head, and corsolets were hung on their feet.
绳索被捆在头上，用力绞紧，直至深入大脑。
Knotted ropes were put around their heads and twisted till they penetrated to the brains.
我既无法也无权详述他们对这片土地上可怜人们施加的所有伤痛与折磨。
I neither can nor may tell all the wounds and agonies which they inflicted on the wretched men of this land.
对此，你有什么看法，哈斯廷斯？
So what do you make of that, Hastings?
是的。
Yes.
我认为这非常能说明问题，不是吗？
That, I think, is very telling, isn't it?
所以这些暴徒有特定的作案手法。
So these thugs have a particular modus operandi.
年轻的威廉，我想，他是不是那种……我是说，他还是个孩子。
And young William I guess, is he the kind of I mean, he's a boy.
你说他来自一个上升中的家庭。
He's from, you said, an upwardly mobile family.
他正在当学徒之类的，对吧？
He's working as an apprentice or something like that.
是这样吗？
Is that right?
是的。
Yeah.
所以他口袋里可能有几枚硬币叮当作响。
So he might have a bit of money jingling in his purse.
那么，他难道不是这些无赖、流氓的明显目标吗？
So would he not be an obvious target for these ne'er do wells, these ruffians?
事实上，那种勒颈、倒吊拇指或倒吊头部、紧身胸衣和脚部的酷刑，他们都被折磨过，等等等等。
And in fact, the gag, the hanging, hung by the thumbs or by the head, corsets and the feet, they were tortured, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
我的意思是，这看起来就像他是席卷英格兰的这种盗匪浪潮中的一个典型受害者。
I mean, that just looks like he's a standard victim of the anarchy of these this kind of wave of banditry that's swept across England.
不是吗？
No?
你或许会这么想，但必须指出的是，这并非最终被采纳的解释，当然也不是托马斯·蒙茅斯的结论——我们将在本集过程中对他的可信度进行严格检验。
You might think that, but it has to be said this is not the explanation that ultimately came to be favored, and it's certainly not the explanation that Thomas of Monmouth, whose reliability we will have to stress test over the course of this episode, it's not the conclusion that he comes to.
之所以如此，是因为戈德温和威廉的其他家人并不认为威廉是被强盗和劫匪所害。
And the reason for that is that Godwin and the rest of William's family, they do not think that William has been the victim of bandits and robbers.
他们认定威廉的凶手是更为邪恶的人物，戈德温认为这些是真正恶魔般的恶徒，他们并非出没于郊外道路，劫掠并折磨过路旅人，而是令人不寒而栗地潜伏在诺里奇城内部。
They come to identify William's murderers as even more sinister figures, men who Godwin thinks of as figures of literally diabolical evil, who live not out on the roads where poor travelers can be captured and tortured to death, but chillingly within Norwich itself.
哦，这真令人毛骨悚然。
Oh, that is chilling.
那么这些人是谁？他们在诺维奇做什么？
So who are these people, and what are they doing in Norwich?
好的。
Okay.
先说点背景。
Some setting first.
首先，诺维奇。
So Norwich, first of all.
到这个时候，它是英格兰第二大城市，但这其实也没多少可夸的。
By this point, it's the second largest city in England, which isn't to say much, actually.
人口大约在五千人左右。
Population probably around 5,000 people.
但它之所以增长，是因为它是农作物非常丰富的地区的中心。
But it's grown because it's the center of a region that's very rich in, in crops.
土壤非常肥沃。
Soil is very fertile.
有很多羊，所以有羊毛。
Lots of sheep, so wool.
还有牛，提供皮革、牛肉等等。
There's cattle, so hides and beef and so on.
而且它通过河流非常便利地连接到大海。
And it's linked very conveniently by rivers to the sea.
所以它实际上占据了绝佳的位置。
So it's in pole position, really.
和英格兰许多关键地点一样，这里如今被一座巨大的石制城堡和一座始建于十月的大教堂所主导，这座大教堂是诺曼时期最令人印象深刻的宗教建筑之一。
And like so many key places in England, it is now dominated by a vast castle built out of stone and also by a cathedral that was begun in October, and it's one of the most impressive Norman ecclesiastical structures ever built.
因此，这些都是诺里奇重要性的体现。
So these are all markers of of how significant Norwich is.
但诺里奇重要性和繁荣的另一个标志，是城中存在一个犹太人社区。
But there is another marker of Norwich's importance and prosperity, and that is the presence within the city of a community of Jews.
犹太人最早是在诺曼征服后来到英格兰的，但他们真正来到诺里奇，其实只比威廉遇害事件早了一代人左右。
And Jews had first come to England after the Norman conquest, but they'd come to Norwich really only a a generation before the murder of William.
对。
Right.
而且他们
And they
在诺维奇从事金融、铸币、医生、学者和工匠等工作。
work in Norwich in finance, moneyers, as doctors, as scholars, as artisans.
作为社区，他们非常非常成功。
And as a community, they're very, very successful.
在整个英格兰，只有伦敦的犹太社区向王室国库缴纳的税收比诺维奇更多。
And across England, the only community of Jews that pay more tax to the royal exchequer than Norwich is London.
因此，斯蒂芬深陷与表妹玛蒂尔达的内战，他实际上控制了东盎格利亚，而他需要资金来打这场内战。
And so Stephen, in embroiled in this civil war with his cousin Matilda, he essentially has East Anglia under his control, and he needs money to fight the civil war.
因此，他非常喜爱犹太人。
And so he he loves the Jews.
我的意思是，他认为他们很棒。
I mean, he thinks they're great.
他们为他赚了大量钱财并缴纳税款，使他能够继续作战。
They're making him lots of money and giving him taxes, and so he can carry on fighting.
然而，在历史上，那些在动荡时期赚取巨额财富、又因与邻居不同而早已受到猜疑的人，往往容易招致怨恨、阴谋论和敌意。正如我们所知，诺里奇的犹太人此时是否也是如此？
And yet, throughout history, people who make a lot of money in a time of chaos, also people who are already regarded with suspicion because they are different from their neighbors, such people often tend to incur resentment, conspiracy theories, hostility, and as we know, And is that the case at this point with the Jews of Norwich?
正如你所说，他们不受欢迎是有明显原因的。
Well, as you say, there are obvious reasons for their unpopularity.
另一个原因是，他们与诺曼人联系在一起，因此被被殖民者视为殖民者的同伙。
Another is that they are associated with the Normans, and so they are associated by colonized people with their colonizers.
这可能与阿明统治下的乌干达对亚裔人群的看法有某种相似之处。
And there might be a kind of parallel with the way that Asians were regarded in Idi Amin's Uganda.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yep.
你知道，那些被英国人带过去的亚裔人群。
You know, Asians who'd been brought over by the British.
但显而易见，诺里奇是一座基督教城市，因此存在着根深蒂固的神学原因，这些原因可以追溯到基督教的起源，解释了为什么基督徒会对犹太人持有负面刻板印象。
But obviously, Norwich is a Christian city, and so there are deeply rooted theological reasons, which which go all the way back to the very beginnings of Christianity, as to why Christians might have negative stereotypes of Jews.
因此，基督徒将犹太人视为主动与普世的（希腊语中的‘大公’）基督教灵魂共同体隔绝的异类。
So they are viewed by Christians as aliens who have willfully shut themselves off from the universal, which in Greek is Catholic, community of Christian souls.
是的。
Yeah.
因此，这是敌意的一个明显原因。
So that's an obvious cause of hostility.
人们认为他们对基督徒怀有强烈的恶意。
They are believed to have an intense malevolence towards Christians.
因此，他们被指责为导致基督在十字架上受难的元凶。
So they are blamed for the sufferings of Christ on the cross.
此外，由于希律王是犹太人，而希律正是下令在伯利恒屠杀无辜婴儿、企图杀害耶稣的人。
They are also, because Herod was a Jew, and Herod is the man who launches the massacre of the innocents in Bethlehem when he's trying to kill Jesus.
在12世纪期间，这些无辜者被越来越多地视为基督徒。
The innocents over the course of the twelfth century are increasingly being cast as Christians.
因此，人们觉得犹太人对儿童怀有特别的敌意。
And so there's a sense that Jews have a particular animus against children.
而且有一种更广泛的看法认为，他们被上帝诅咒，受魔鬼青睐，因杀害救世主而被驱逐流放，被赶出家园，本质上他们的额头上带着该隐的印记。
And there is a broader feeling that they have been cursed by God, that they're favored by the devil, that they've been driven into exile because they slew the Messiah, that they've been exiled from their homeland, and that essentially they kind of bear the mark of Cain on their brows.
因此，基督徒若想利用，就能调用一整套非常负面的刻板印象。
So there's a whole swirl of very negative stereotypes that Christians can draw on if they want to.
对的。
Right.
但你问的是，当时诺里奇的基督徒与犹太人之间的关系是否始终充满敌意？
But you ask, you know, are relations between Christians and Jews in Norwich at this time unremittingly hostile?
绝对不是。
Absolutely, they're not.
因为尽管存在针对犹太人的民间敌意潮流，但总体而言，教会和基督教君主对犹太人的态度深受数世纪相对——我强调‘相对’这个词——宽容的影响。
Because even though there are kind of currents of popular hostility to Jews, by and large, the, both the church and Christian kings are influenced in their attitude to Jews by centuries of relative, and I emphasize the word relative tolerance.
例如，教皇们一直任用犹太人。
So the popes, for instance, have always employed Jews.
他们一直担任罗马及教皇统治地区犹太人的保护者。
They've always served as the patron of Jews in Rome and and the lands ruled by the popes.
因此，在五月，教皇格列高利一世颁布法令，规定犹太人在其社区中绝不得遭受权利侵害。
So in May, Gregory the first, Gregory the Great, had decreed that the Jews in their communities were in no way to suffer a violation of of their rights.
法兰克国王，即墨洛温王朝、查理曼及其后裔，承认犹太人是一个拥有自身法律、宗教以及与上帝独特关系的民族。
The Frankish kings, so the Merovingians, Charlemagne and his heirs, had recognized them as a people with their own law, their own religio, their own kind of relationship to God.
甚至有些主教看待犹太人时，不仅带有勉强的容忍，更近乎怀有钦佩之情。
And it's possible for, say, bishops to view Jews not just with a kind of grudging toleration, but with almost a sense of admiration.
因此，在十月，位于莱茵河畔的斯派尔，一位主教颁布法令，称犹太人存在于他的教区是一种荣耀。
So in in October, in Speyer On the Rhine, a bishop decrees that the presence of Jews in his diocese does it honor.
我的意思是，大多数主教并不会走到这一步，但拉丁基督教世界显然存在一种共存基础，使犹太社群得以繁荣，而他们也正是数个世纪以来如此发展的。
I mean, most bishops don't go that far, but there is clearly a basis there for a kind of modus vivendi in Latin Christendom that enables Jewish communities to thrive, which is essentially what they have done for centuries.
在中世纪早期，并不存在针对犹太人的暴力与迫害氛围。
There isn't a kind of a mood of violence and persecution in the kind of the early Middle Ages towards the Jews.
尤其是在英格兰，十二世纪对于定居于此的犹太人而言，是一个相当和平的时期。
And certainly in England, the twelfth century is is a pretty peaceful period for the Jews who settled there.
没有任何真正的暴力事件发生。
There are no real outbreaks of violence.
当然也没有王室或教会的迫害。
There's certainly no royal or ecclesiastical persecution.
我认为诺里奇的犹太人远非被当地人视为威胁，相反，城市当局明确承认他们是城市成功的关键组成部分。
And I I think the Jews of Norwich, far from people in Norwich thinking, oh, they're a menace, I think they're well, they're certainly acknowledged by the city authorities as, you know, key ingredient to its success.
多样性是诺里奇的优势——这应该是诺里奇市政当局想要传达的信息。
Diversity is Norwich's strength, think, would be the the message of the Norwich town authorities.
那么，什么时候呢？我意思是，大剧透一下。
So at what point I mean, big spoiler alert.
犹太人将被指控为这起谋杀案的凶手。
The Jews are going to get blamed for this murder.
指责的矛头是什么时候开始指向犹太人的？你认为有多少人相信这种说法？
At what point does the finger of blame start to point towards the Jews, and how many people believe it would you say?
似乎是指向犹太人的指控来自威廉的家人。
It seems to be William's family who point the finger.
所以托马斯·蒙茅斯说，威廉的母亲从乡下来到诺里奇，听说威廉曾被提供一份厨师的工作，于是去了诺里奇一位重要犹太人家里商谈此事，随后便消失在那户犹太人家中，再也没有出现过。
So Thomas of Monmouth says that his mother comes from the country into Norwich and is told that William had been offered a job as a cook and had gone to a house of one of the leading Jews in Norwich to talk about it and had vanished into this Jew's house and was never seen again.
我的意思是，这个说法有多可靠，我们稍后会讨论。
I mean, how reliable that is, we will discuss later.
但真正积极推动这一指控的是这位名叫戈德温的神父，他是威廉的叔叔。
But the person who really seems to push the accusation is this priest, Godwin, say William's uncle.
他带着这个案子去找诺里奇主教，声称是犹太人集体谋杀了他侄子。
He's the guy who takes the case to the bishop of Norwich and says, it's the Jews collectively who have killed my nephew.
于是主教将此案交给了当地治安官，一位名叫约翰·杜尚的人。
And so the bishop then takes this case to the local sheriff, a man called John Duchesne.
约翰·杜尚说，这太荒谬了。
And John Duchesne says, this is ridiculous.
这简直是纯粹的胡说八道。
This is I mean, you have absolute nonsense.
对。
Right.
他不仅驳斥了这一指控，还积极协助犹太人。
And not only does he reject the accusation, but he actively assists the Jews.
首先，他告诉犹太人：如果主教试图对你们提起诉讼，就置之不理。
So first, he tells the Jews, if the bishop tries to launch prosecution against you, ignore it.
作为非基督徒，你们不受教会法庭的管辖。
As non Christians, you are not under the the remit of the ecclesiastical courts.
然后，他将他们直接保护在诺里奇城堡内。
And then he takes them under his direct protection in Norwich Castle.
在那里，他们实际上完全安全了。
So there, they are effectively completely secure.
我认为他觉得这些针对犹太人的指控不太可能，尤其是这些指控来自神父戈德温——他曾经走进树林，发现了威廉尸体被发现的地点。
And I think it's understandable that he should have thought these accusations against the Jews are improbable, particularly coming as they do from this priest, Godwin, who had gone out into the wood and had seen the place where William had been found dead.
我想杜切斯内可能在考虑两件事。
And I guess that Duchesne is thinking possibly two things.
当然，我不能确定，但可能性很大。
I mean, don't know this for sure, but it's likely.
所以我怀疑达尚内认为，这可能是威廉一家试图向犹太人勒索钱财。
So I I suspect that Duchesne thinks either this is an attempt by William's family to extort money from the Jews.
你们指控他们，他们就试图用钱收买指控者。
You accuse them, and they try and basically buy the accusers off.
或者我认为可能存在一个更黑暗的原因，那就是我们唯一被明确告知、且可以绝对信赖的细节：威廉被发现吊在树上。
Or I think there's possibly a darker reason, which is the one thing we're told that I think we can absolutely rely on is that William is found hanging from a tree.
因为蒙茅斯的托马斯无意中透露了这一点。
Because Thomas of Monmouth, he rather lets it slip.
这并不是他刻意强调的细节。
It's not a detail that he dwells on.
因此，威廉可能是自缢身亡的。
And so there might be a possibility that William had hung himself.
你知道，他是一个独自在城里的小男孩。
You know, he's a young boy alone in the city.
你可以想到很多种他可能想要自杀的原因。
You could think of any number of reasons why he he might have wanted to kill himself.
对于基督徒，尤其是神职人员来说，一个人悬挂在树上会立刻让人联想到背叛基督后上吊自杀的犹大。
And a person who hangs himself from a tree for Christians and certainly for a priest would immediately conjure up thoughts of Judas who betrayed Christ and then hung himself.
是的。
Yeah.
正是这一点使自杀在教会眼中被视为一种罪行。
And it's this that marks suicide out as a a a crime in the opinion of the church.
不过，这并不能解释塞口物的存在，而且这与我认为非常有说服力的观点略有冲突，即这是在无政府状态期间该地区许多暴徒的惯用手法。
Although that would that wouldn't explain the gag, and it slightly it conflicts with the idea, which I find very persuasive, that this is a modus operandi of lots of thugs in the area during the anarchy.
对。
And so Yeah.
那难道不是最简单的解释吗？
Is that not the simplest?
我认为这是最简单的解释，但杜申可能根本就完全不信任这些证词。
I think that is the simplest, but it is possible that Duchesne doesn't trust the accounts at all.
我想，正因为这与犹大有关，这可能让戈德温神父感到担忧，于是他开始想到犹太人，进而推测也许真是犹太人干的。
And I guess that because there's association with Judas, that might be what puts you know, you could imagine, Godwin, the priest, worrying about this, and so he starts thinking about the Jews, then he thinks, well, maybe the Jews did.
我们无法确定。
We can't know for sure.
我们距离那个时代太遥远了。
We're we're at such a distance.
托马斯·蒙茅斯的记载是我们唯一的资料，正如我们即将看到的，我们不能完全依赖它。
Thomas of Monmouth's account is the only one we have, and as we'll see, we we can't a 100% rely on it.
但我猜，德尚对犹太人杀害诺维奇的威廉这一说法持怀疑态度的主要原因是：他们为什么要这么做呢？
But I guess that the chief reason why dcsande would be skeptical about the idea that the Jews had killed William of Norwich is why would they have done it?
我的意思是，他们有什么可能的动机这么做呢？
I mean, what conceivable reason would they have had for doing it?
因此，我认为，在威廉尸体被发现后的几周、几个月乃至几年里，没有人认真调查这起谋杀案，更不用说提起公诉了，这并不令人意外。
And so it's not surprising, I think, that at first in the weeks and then in the months and then the years that follow the discovery of William's corpse, there isn't any serious investigation into the murder, and and certainly there is no prosecution.
正如你所说，那个时代是邪恶的。
And as you say, you know, the times are evil.
威廉之死的细节模糊不清，而当时在东盎格利亚的田野和树林里，有许多人正以惨烈的方式死去。
The circumstances of William's death are murky, and there are lots of people who are dying horribly in the fields and woods of East Anglia at this time.
我认为，镇当局普遍认为威廉家人对犹太人的指控是荒谬的。
And I think that there's a general feeling on the part of the town authorities that the accusations that William's family have brought against the Jews are ridiculous.
但汤姆，六年之后，也就是威廉·诺里奇死后六年，一切都变了，不是吗？
But then, Tom, six years later, six years after the death of William of Norwich, everything changes, doesn't it?
一片阴影笼罩了诺里奇的犹太人，而这片阴影甚至延伸到了巴勒斯坦。
A shadow falls across the Jews of Norwich, and this is a shadow that stretches all the way from Palestine.
我们将在广告后继续讲述这个故事。
And we'll pick up on that story after the break.
请细心的读者留意，上帝的审判何等公义，他如何恰如其分地施以报应：那个犹太人，曾用邪恶的手诱骗基督徒进入家中并将其杀害，杀死之后又将尸体抛入树林，任由狗和鸟啄食。
Let the careful reader here observe how just was the judgment of God and how worthily he dealt out retribution, in that the Jew, who with wicked hands had enticed a Christian into his house and killed him, when he had killed him, had flung him into a wood, and there had exposed him to the dogs and the birds.
而这个同样的人，也被诱骗出家门，在树林中被基督徒杀害，同样被遗弃在露天，任由狗和鸟撕咬。
This same man was enticed out of his own house, was killed by the hands of Christians in a wood, and in exactly the same way, was left in the open air and exposed to be torn to pieces by dogs and birds.
这就是托马斯·蒙茅斯，他记录了十一月发生的两起轰动性审判。
So that was Thomas of Monmouth, and he is reporting on two sensational trials that took place in November.
其中一起在诺里奇，另一起在伦敦，均由国王斯蒂芬亲自主持，因为又有一名受害者在诺里奇郊外的树林中被发现。
One of them was in Norwich, and the other one was in London, and they were presided over by King Stephen himself, because a second murder victim had been found in a wood outside Norwich.
但这次，汤姆，死的不是基督徒，而是一个犹太人。
But this time, Tom, it was not a Christian, it was a Jew.
那么，到底发生了什么？
So what's going on?
没错。
That's right.
而且不只是普通的犹太人，而是据托马斯·蒙茅斯的说法，六年前策划谋杀了12岁基督教学徒威廉的那个人。
And not just any Jew, but the man who, according to Thomas of Monmouth, at any rate, had masterminded the murder six years previously of the 12 year old Christian apprentice, William.
因此，这个犹太人就是据称威廉曾进入其家中、此后再未被任何基督徒见过的人。
And so this was the Jew into whose house supposedly William had vanished, never to be seen again by any Christian soul.
而托马斯所指名为埃利扎的人，是在诺维奇城外的道路上被一名名叫西蒙·德·诺瓦斯的骑士杀害的，此人欠埃利扎巨额债务，却无力偿还。
And the the Jew who is named by Thomas as Eliasza had been killed out on the roads beyond Norwich by a knight named sir Simon de Novas, who was very deeply in debt to Eliaza and couldn't pay him back.
这个案子明明白白，铁证如山。
And the case is absolutely open and shut.
而斯蒂芬非常希望表明他对犹太社区的支持，你知道，他非常看重他们缴纳的税收。
And Stephen, is very anxious to signal his support for the the Jewish community, you know, he he is very keen on the taxes that they pay him.
他想拿德诺瓦斯做个典型，你知道的，把他关起来，绞死他，随便怎样都行。
He's keen to make an example of de nova's, you know, bang him up, hang him, whatever.
咱们就定这个人的罪吧。
Let's let's convict this guy.
但即使斯蒂芬基本上铁了心要判德诺瓦斯有罪，事情却并没有如他所愿。
But even though Stephen is basically set on finding de Novas guilty, this isn't what happens.
因为审判进行得越久，斯蒂芬就越难定德诺瓦斯的罪。
Because the longer the trials go on, the harder it becomes for Stephen to convict de Novas.
最后，在诺里奇审判之后，伦敦的审判基本上让他放弃了整件事。
And finally, the trial in London, which follows the trial in Norwich, basically, he gives up on the whole thing.
他说：今天我们听了太多议论，但还有其他事务等着我们处理。
And he says, we have been fatigued by a good deal of discourse today and yet have some business which keeps us.
因此，我们无法对如此重大的事项给予应有的关注。
We are unable, therefore, to give the requisite attention to so weightier matter.
换句话说，他实际上是对此事撒手不管了。
So in other words, he's basically washing his hands of it.
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他说，我没时间应付这些了。
He's saying, I don't have time for all this.
德诺瓦没有被宣告无罪，但他得以获释。
DeNova's isn't he's not acquitted, but he's able to go free.
而他，你知道的，从未因杀害埃利萨za而受到惩罚，而他无疑犯下了这起谋杀。
And he, you know, he's never punished for the the the murder of Eliasza, which he undoubtedly committed.
我的意思是，斯蒂芬的裁决有点可笑，你知道的，我们没时间了，我懒得管了。
I mean, it's a slightly comical verdict from Stephen that, you know, we've run out of time, and I can't be bothered.
但这却是严重的不公。
And yet, gross injustice.
我的意思是，如果你是埃利萨za的家人，你一定会被这件事击垮。
I mean, if you're the family of this guy, Eliazza, you're gutted about this.
这个德诺瓦竟然毫发无损地逃脱了惩罚。
This de Novas has got away with it scot free.
那么，为什么会发生这种情况？
And so why has that happened?
我的意思是，如果这是一起明摆着的案子，德诺瓦明显有罪，那他为什么能逍遥法外呢？
I mean, because if DeNova's if it's an open shut case and DeNova's is obviously guilty, why has he got away with it?
好吧。
Okay.
我认为有两个原因，这两个原因都加剧了人们对遇害者埃利亚扎的敌意。
So I think there are two reasons, and both of them contribute to a hardening of the mood against the murdered Eliaza.
其中第一个原因被EM·罗斯在她关于此案的书中精彩地揭示了出来。
And the first of them is brilliantly teased out by EM Rose in her book on this whole case.
她认为，德诺瓦曾向埃利亚扎借过钱，那他为什么要这么做呢？
And she argues that de Novas had borrowed money from Eliaza, and why had he done that?
罗斯认为，这是因为德诺瓦需要筹钱参与当时基督教世界最宏大的集体事业——即前往圣地巴勒斯坦的远征，也就是我们所熟知的第二次十字军东征。
Rose argues that it was because he had needed to fund his participation in the great collective Christian enterprise of the age, which is the campaign to Palestine to The Holy Land that we remember as the Second Crusade.
这场远征始于十一月，也就是威廉遇害三年后。
So this had been launched in November, so three years after the murder of William.
它在拉丁基督教世界引发了普遍的、甚至近乎致命的反犹敌意。
And it had resulted in a mood of often literally murderous hostility to Jews across Latin Christendom.
在过去一个多世纪里，犹太社区逐渐惊恐地意识到，来自巴勒斯坦、圣地的坏消息， invariably 都会给他们带来灾难。
And one of the things that Jewish communities over the previous century and more had come to their horror to realize was that bad news from from Palestine, from The Holy Land, was invariably bad news for them.
尽管显然，你知道，英格兰、德国、法国等地的犹太人与圣地发生的事情毫无关系，但总是会引发反噬，西欧的犹太社区往往被归咎于巴勒斯坦发生的事。
And even though, obviously, you know, Jews in England or Germany or France or whatever have nothing to do with what is going on in The Holy Land, Invariably, there is blowback, and Jewish communities in in Western Europe tend to get the blame for what is going on in Palestine.
举个例子，公元1009年，法蒂玛哈里发哈基姆，也就是穆斯林的卡利古拉，下令摧毁了君士坦丁大帝在耶路撒冷建造的圣墓教堂。
So to give you some examples, in 10/00/2009, the Fatimid caliph al Hakim, aka the Muslim Caligula, orders the destruction of Constantine's great Church Of The Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.
这一事件在欧洲引发了巨大的连锁反应。
And this has incredible blowback in Europe.
所有人都极度震惊，这完全可以理解。
Everyone's massively upset there, understandably.
许多基督徒立刻将责任归咎于犹太人，尽管完全没有任何证据。
And lots of Christians immediately blame the Jews for it with, I mean, absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
因此，这标志着第一次真正大规模的反犹运动的出现。
And so for this is the first real mass display of anti Jewish, campaigns.
于是，在德国、法国等地，出现了各种强迫犹太人改宗、驱逐犹太社区的事件。
So there are all kinds of examples of forced conversions, expulsions of Jewish communities across Germany, across France.
然后在十月，第一次十字军东征开始了。
Then in October, the First Crusade is launched.
当一群群骑士开始集结，这些庞大的武装朝圣者前往圣地时，莱茵兰地区各地也爆发了针对犹太人的暴行。
And as, the, you know, bands of knights are starting to to form and these great bands of armed pilgrims head out to the Holy Land, so it inspires pogroms along the length of the Rhineland.
特别是在美因茨，发生了臭名昭著的暴行，超过一千名犹太人被杀害。
So particularly notorious pogrom in Mainz where over a thousand Jews are are killed.
甚至在斯佩耶尔，这位主教在十二年前还曾说过，有犹太人在这里是一种荣幸。
And even in Speyer where the bishop only twelve years earlier had been saying, you know, it's a privilege to have Jews here.
但那里的犹太人也同样遭到袭击和杀害。
Jews there also get attacked and killed.
现在我们进入了十二世纪中期，新一轮十字军东征——第二次十字军东征，不可避免地带来了新一轮的暴行和迫害。
So now we're in the mid twelfth century, and a new crusade, the second crusade, and I suppose, inevitably, a new wave of pogroms and persecutions.
是的。
Yes.
这其中的一些细节令人毛骨悚然。
Some of the details of this are horrible.
有一位拉比住在英格兰，他从科隆探亲后正返家，途中被俘并遭斩首。
So there's a rabbi who's based in England who's trying to get home from Cologne where he'd been on a visit, and en route, he gets seized and beheaded.
另一位拉比在法国被一群十字军残害，他们以极其精确的方式对他施暴。
There's another rabbi in France who is mutilated by a band of crusaders, and they mutilate him in a very precise way.
他们对这位拉比施加了基督受难时所承受的五处伤口，然后将他的尸体丢弃。
They inflict the five wounds suffered by Christ in his passion on the rabbi, and then they dump his body.
在美因河——莱茵河的一条支流——上，人们发现了一名儿童的尸体，再次凸显了莱茵兰作为这些暴行中心的特征。
And on the River Main, which is a tributary of the Rhine, so again, this sense of the Rhineland as as kind of center of these atrocities, a child is found in the river.
他已死亡。
He's dead.
十字军声称是犹太人干的。
And the Crusaders say it was the Jews who did this.
许多基督徒对这些暴力行为感到震惊。
There are lots of Christians who are appalled by these displays of violence.
其中最著名的是伟大的布道者克莱尔沃的伯纳德，这位著名的西多会修士的讲道曾极大地推动了第二次十字军东征，他巡游莱茵兰，试图驳斥十字军对犹太人的指控。
So chief among them is the great preacher Bernard of Clairvaux, the great Cistercian whose sermons had played a huge role in inspiring the Second Crusade, he tours the Rhineland trying to refute the allegations that the Crusaders are bringing against the Jews.
在维尔茨堡，主教发现了被杀害的犹太人的尸体，他为他们清洗身体，涂抹圣油，并将他们埋葬在自己花园的地上。
In Wurzburg, the bishop, he finds the bodies of the Jews who've been slain, and he washes them, and he anoints them, and he buries them in the grounds of his own garden.
在乡下，许多基督教领主像诺里奇的多塞特夫人一样，当那里的犹太人受到威胁时，他们将犹太人庇护在自己的城堡里。
And that out in the countryside, there are lots of Christian castellans who, a bit like Duchessne in Norwich, when the Jews there were threatened, they shelter the Jews in their castles.
所以这个故事并非完全黑暗，但它显然正在变得更加黑暗。
So the story isn't unremittingly a dark one, but it is clearly darkening.
你知道，如今西欧基督教世界中的犹太社区不得不面对这样一个现实：每当巴勒斯坦地区发生地缘政治危机时，都可能引发宗教动机的暴力行为。
And, you know, it's essentially, Jewish communities now across Western Christendom are having to live with the knowledge that religiously motivated violence might be provoked anytime there is a kind of geopolitical crisis in Palestine.
表面上看，这有一个显而易见的解释，那就是十字军前往圣地，自认为是在为上帝工作，与基督的敌人作战。
Now superficially, there's an obvious explanation for this, which is that the Crusaders are going off to do what they see as God's work, fighting the enemies of Christ in The Holy Land, I.
E.
E.
他们正在与穆斯林作战，与此同时，这种行为在基督教世界内部、在欧洲本身，也产生了相应的镜像——人们正在打击基督的敌人。
Fighting Muslims, and that at the same time that is being that the sort of mirror image of that is people fighting Christ's enemies in Christendom itself, in Europe itself.
换句话说，在这种情况下，敌人就是犹太人。
So in other words, in this case, Jews.
他们将暴力输出到圣地的同时，也在自己的社区内对非基督徒进行复制。
The the violence that they are exporting to The Holy Land, they are also now replicating within their own communities against non Christians.
但你觉得这背后还有更深层的原因吗？
But you think there's something more than that?
这还有另一个层面。
There's another dimension to it.
是的。
Yeah.
因为问题是，为什么圣地发生的事情会如此深刻地回响到拉丁基督教世界？
Because the question is, why does what happens in The Holy Land, why does it reverberate back so profoundly into Latin Christendom?
我的意思是，地中海和近东地区有各种各样的战争，但它们都没有这样的影响。
I mean, there are all kinds of wars and things happening across the Mediterranean and the Near East, but they don't have the impact.
而答案显然在于，这是圣地。
And the answer to that, obviously, is that this is The Holy Land.
这里是基督诞生的地方。
This is where Christ was born.
这是他死去的地方。
It's where he died.
基督徒相信，这是他从死里复活的地方。
It's where he rose from the dead, Christians believe.
因此，圣地是希律王——犹太人的王——下令屠杀无辜者的地方。
So The Holy Land is where the innocents had been massacred on the orders of Herod, king of the Jews.
这也是基督受难时，人群欢呼雀跃、拒绝彼拉多释放他的地方，而这些人正是犹太人。
And it's where Christ's suffering had been cheered on by the crowd who had refused Pilate's offer to release him, who in turn are Jews.
如果你看看指控杀害儿童的指控，比如在河里发现的那个孩子，这显然呼应了无辜者被屠杀的事件。
And if you look at the the accusation of child slaying, you know, this child found in the river, echoes there of the massacre of the innocents.
或者你看看这位拉比身上所受的基督伤痕，这同样是在援引《新约》的叙事。
Or you look at the wounds of Christ inflicted on this rabbi, again, it's drawing on the New Testament narratives.
因此，我认为，这些正是基督徒情绪与愤怒的漩涡的一部分，斯蒂芬在主持对德诺瓦的审判时，必须考虑到这些。
And so I think that these are part of the swirl of emotion and anger on the part of Christians that Stephen, when he's presiding over the trial of de novars, has to take account of.
但他还必须考虑另一件事，那就是德诺瓦的辩护团队准备利用六年前几乎被遗忘的学徒男孩威廉被谋杀的事件来借题发挥。
But he also has to take account of something else, and this is the readiness of de Novas defense team to weaponize the almost completely forgotten murder of the apprentice boy, William, six years before.
当我提到诺瓦的辩护团队时，我特指领导辩护的人——诺里奇主教本人，一位名叫威廉·图伯的人。
And when I say the Nova's defense team, I mean specifically the guy who is leading the defense, who is the Bishop of Norwich himself, a man called William Turber.
诺里奇主教是一位非常能干的人。
And the Bishop of Norwich is a very, very able man.
因此，他并非像诺曼英格兰的主教那样由国王任命。
So he's not a royal appointee as bishops tend to be in Norman England.
他是诺里奇的一名修士，幼年时被父母献给修道院作为献身儿童。
He's a monk in Norwich, who had been an oblate, so given by his parents to the monastery as a child.
他彻头彻尾是个诺里奇人。
He's a man of Norwich through and through.
他由同修们选举为主教，正如E.
He'd been elected as bishop by his fellow monks, and to quote E.
M.
M.
罗斯所言，他是一位经验丰富的法庭专家，博学多闻、见多识广、成熟稳重，且以雄辩著称。
Rose, an experienced courtroom authority, sophisticated, well traveled, well read, mature, and a noted orator.
对于威廉·特伯来说，能够在国王斯蒂芬本人面前辩护，是他提升自身声望的绝佳机会，因为正如我们所说，他并非王室任命的主教。
And for William Terb, the chance to plead before Stephen, the king himself, is a massive opportunity for him to raise his profile because, as we said, he's not a royal appointee.
因此，这不仅是他让国王认识自己的机会，也是提升自己大教堂声誉的机会。
So this is a chance for him to make himself known to the king, but it's also a chance for him to raise the profile of his cathedral.
因此，通过强调威廉作为被犹太人谋杀的孩童、因而可能被视为殉道者这一身份，威廉·特伯得以有机会为诺里奇大教堂提供迄今为止极度缺乏的东西——真正可信的圣物遗骸。
And so by emphasizing William's status as someone who's been murdered by the Jews and therefore perhaps could rank as a martyr, it gives William Turbot the chance to potentially provide Norwich Cathedral with what up to this point it has very badly been lacking, namely some really good authentic saintly relics.
因为要成为顶级的大教堂，这正是你所需要的。
Because this to be a top class cathedral is what you need.
我们提到过，达勒姆大教堂拥有圣卡斯伯特的遗体。
So we mentioned Durham Cathedral has the body of Saint Cuthbert.
威斯敏斯特修道院拥有忏悔者爱德华的遗体。
Westminster Abbey has the body of Edward the confessor.
我想威廉·特伯很可能在想，如果我们能将这个可能被犹太人杀害的小男孩宣传为殉道者，那真是太棒了。
And I think that probably William Terber is thinking, you know, if we can promote this little boy who's been possibly murdered by the Jews as a martyr, then brilliant.
这样，我们就能填补我们大教堂的空白。
You know, we fill the gap that that my cathedral has.
所以你觉得
So do you think
这个诺里奇主教威廉·特伯，真的如此世故，以至于这些想法真的出现在他脑海中吗？
that this guy, William Terber, the bishop of Norwich, is so cynical that these thoughts have genuinely gone through his mind?
他确实动了脑筋，觉得这是三赢的局面。
The cogs have turned, he thought it's it's win win win.
你知道，我会用我的演讲能力给人留下深刻印象。
You know, I'll impress people with my oratory.
我会让这位显然很有影响力和权力的人物脱身，同时也能大大提升我的大教堂。
I'll get this very presumably influential and powerful person off, but also I will, you know, really boost my cathedral.
我们会获得圣物。
We'll get the relics.
我们会吸引朝圣者。
We'll get pilgrims.
我们会得到，你知道的，你觉得他是冷血算计的，还是他真的相信了自己那一套，恰好与他的利益相符？或者说，他其实真心相信，或者至少觉得自己真心相信，而这又恰好对他有利？
We'll get you know, it's do you think he's he he's done that cold bloodedly, or do you think he has drunk his own Kool Aid as it were, and it just happens to match or, you know, it's one of those things that he actually genuinely believes or thinks he genuinely believes it, but it also, you know, works to his advantage?
嗯，个人利益和上帝的需要常常是一致的。
Well, self interest and the needs of God have have often coincided.
我的意思是，在中世纪历史中，这种情况经常发生。
I mean, and often do throughout medieval history.
威廉·特尔伯完全是个修士，也完全是个诺里奇人，他是由诺里奇的修士们亲自挑选出来的。
William Turb is he's a monk through and through, and he's a man of Norwich through and through, and he's been personally chosen by the monks of Norwich.
他一定觉得这反映了上帝的旨意，上帝希望这座大教堂能因一位殉道者的遗体而变得神圣。
And he must feel that this reflects the will of God, and that God would want the cathedral to be hallowed, perhaps, by the body of a martyr.
因此，毫无疑问，他正试图让德诺弗斯脱身。
And therefore, to be sure, I mean, he's trying to get de novres off.
这是他的职责。
That's his job.
但与此同时，如果他能提升大教堂的声望，那么，你知道，这大概就是上帝的意愿。
But if at the same time he can raise the profile of his cathedral, then, you know, that's presumably what God wants.
我相信这会是他内心真正的想法。
I'm sure that would be his sinking.
我的意思是，你或许可以称之为愤世嫉俗，但愤世嫉俗往往会被赋予一种——恕我直言——神圣的色彩。
I mean, you might describe it as cynical, but cynicism can often be given a kind of, dare I say, sacral flavoring.
所以，这实际上是一种极为夸张的归咎受害者行为，因为威廉·图尔贝本质上是在说，被杀的犹太人伊莱扎活该遭受这一切。
So, I mean, it is a really spectacular display of victim blaming, because essentially what what, William Turbe is doing is saying that Eliasza, the murdered Jew, deserved everything he got.
所以，让我们引用他的话，威廉·图尔贝的这段演讲被托马斯·蒙茅斯引用了。
So to quote him, and this speech of William Turbe is quoted by Thomas of Monmouth.
那个被指控谋杀的骑士——也就是德诺瓦——虽被指为凶手，但据称，这名犹太人与当时城中的其他犹太人合谋，在他家中残忍地折磨、杀害并藏匿了一名基督教男孩的尸体。
That Jew of whose death the knight, so that's, de Nova's, though innocent, is accused, did, in conjunction with the other Jews then in the city, in his house, as report says, miserably torment, kill, and hide in a wood a Christian boy.
而这里的关键词是‘据称’。
And the keyword there is report.
他所说的‘据称’是什么意思？
What does he mean by report?
到这个时候，主教已经找到了多位证人，他们证明——至少主教这么认为——诺维奇的威廉是被犹太人杀害的。
Well, the bishop by this point has sourced various witnesses proving, as he thinks, the murder of William of Norwich by the Jews.
其中一位证人是城里的市民阿尔沃德，据称他曾偶然在索普伍德遇到伊莱扎和另一名犹太人，正在处理威廉的尸体。
So one of these witnesses is a burgess of the city called Alward, who supposedly had run into Eleazar and a fellow Jew out in Thorpewood disposing of William's body.
你可能会疑惑，既然阿尔沃德此时已经非常方便地去世了，那他为什么当时没有揭露这件事呢？
And you may wonder, well, why hadn't Alward, who by this point very conveniently is dead, why hadn't he revealed this at the time?
据说阿尔沃德曾向已故的郡长唐·切斯尼发过誓，绝不会泄露此事，直到临终前才坦白了真相。
And supposedly, Alward had sworn an oath to the sheriff Don to Chesney, who is also dead, never to reveal this, and only on his deathbed had he confessed it.
而报告此事的托马斯·蒙茅斯对此感到极大的满足，因为阿尔沃德和郡长约翰·德·切斯尼都遭遇了极其悲惨的死亡，这正是对他们对迫害犹太人缺乏热情的应有惩罚。
And Thomas of Monmouth, who reports this, notes with immense satisfaction that both Alward and John de Chesney, the sheriff, had suffered very horrible deaths, so due punishment for their lack of enthusiasm for prosecuting the Jews.
所以，这是一条证据。
So that's one piece of evidence.
然后，诺里奇有一位名叫西奥博尔德的修士，他原本是犹太人，后来改信了基督教。
Then there is a monk in Norwich who is a Jewish convert to Christianity called Theobald.
而西奥博尔德作为曾经的犹太人，能够揭示犹太人最黑暗的秘密之一。
And Theobald, as someone who had been a Jew, is able to reveal one of the Jews' darkest secrets.
据西奥博尔德所说，他们相信，若不流人血，就永远无法重返故土，即曾经的犹地亚和以色列。
And this, according to Theobald, is their belief that without the shedding of human blood, they will never be able to return to their homeland, to what had been Judea, Israel.
这是他自己编造的，还是有更古老的渊源？
Has he dreamt that up, or does that draw on an older tradition?
我认为这是借鉴了该隐的印记这一观念，即犹太人被罚流浪，因此正如该隐杀害了亚伯，也需要一场血祭来消除该隐的印记。
I think drawing on the notion of the mark of Cain, the idea that Jews are sentenced to wander, and therefore perhaps as Cain had killed Abel, a blood sacrifice so a blood sacrifice must be offered to to remove the mark of Cain.
我的意思是，这显然是捏造的。
I mean, it's obviously a fabrication.
在犹太思想中，根本不存在关于这一点的真实传统。
There is no authentic tradition about this in in Jewish thought at all.
但无论如何，西奥博尔德对此大肆宣扬。
But, Theobald anyway, I mean, he's he's all over it.
所以，根据托马斯·蒙茅斯对他所述内容的记载，西奥博尔德说，古代犹太人规定，每年必须在世界某地献祭一名基督徒给至高之神，以蔑视基督，借此报复他们的苦难——因为他们被逐出故土、沦为异乡的奴隶，正是由于基督之死。
So to quote Thomas of Bonnemouth's account of what he said, hence, was laid down, this is Theobald saying, by the Jews in ancient times that every year they must sacrifice a Christian in some part of the world to the most high god in scorn and contempt of Christ that so they might avenge their sufferings on him in as much as it was because of Christ's death that they had been shut out from their own country and were in exile as slaves in a foreign land.
于是，这里就有了为了促使犹太人重返应许之地而进行仪式性杀戮的观念。
So there you have the idea of a ritual killing designed to bring about the return of the Jews to the promised land.
第三个证人是，正如我所引述的，一位曾为以利亚撒家中的女仆的贫穷基督教妇女。
Then the third witness is, and I quote, a certain poor Christian woman who had worked as, a maid for Eliazar in his household.
她是关键证人。
And she is the key witness.
因为，是的，如果对威廉尸体的尸检结果准确，那么如果他被堵住嘴、被荆棘刺穿，这就表明存在某种仪式性折磨的证据。
Because, yes, if the autopsy on William's body is accurate, you know, so if he had been gagged, if he had been stabbed with thorns, then there is evidence there for kind of ritual torture.
但真正目击了那可怕场景的，是那个 supposedly 从门缝中偷看的女仆。
But it's the maid who had peeped through a chink of the door, supposedly, who had seen the literally killer sight.
而且，我再次引用蒙茅斯的托马斯的话。
And, again, I quote Thomas of Monmouth.
当这些基督教的敌人怀着恶意围绕着这个男孩狂欢时，一些在场的人认为他被钉在十字架上，这是对主受难的嘲弄，仿佛他们要说：正如我们谴责基督遭受耻辱的死亡，我们也让基督徒遭受同样的命运，使主与他的仆人同受惩罚，以此报复他们加诸于我们的羞辱。
While these enemies of the Christian name were rioting in the spirit of malignity around the boy, some of those present judged him to be fixed to a cross in mockery of the Lord's passion, as though they would say, even as we condemn the Christ to a shameful death, so let us condemn the Christian so that uniting the Lord and his servant in a like punishment, we may retort upon them the pain of that reproach which they impute to us.
那么，这里究竟在做什么？
So what is being done there?
威廉正遭受着与基督相同的折磨方式。
William is being tortured in the way that Christ had been tortured.
这是一种非常具体、针对基督教的死亡形式。
It's a very, very specific anti Christian form of death.
而根据这位女仆的证词，进而延伸至诺里奇主教和报告这一切的蒙茅斯的托马斯，责任并不仅仅在于以利亚撒一个人。
And the people responsible for it, according to this, maid and therefore by extension the bishop of Norwich and Thomas of Monmouth who is reporting all this, it's not just Eliazza who's the guilty party.
这指的是诺里奇所有的犹太人，进而延伸至基督教世界中的每一位犹太人。
It's all the Jews of Norwich, and by extension, every Jew who lives in Christendom.
其暗示是，他们都参与了这种行为。
The implication is that they are all doing this.
所以现在你能明白，为什么斯蒂芬会如此笨拙地放弃审判了。
So now I suppose you can see why Stephen abandons the trial in such a cack handed way.
因为一方面，你知道，他与英国的犹太人关系良好。
Because on the one hand, you know, he has decent relations with the Jews of England.
对吧？
Right?
所以他并不想支持这些疯狂的阴谋论。
So he doesn't want to endorse these mad conspiracy theories.
但与此同时，他又不能忽视它们。
And yet at the same time, he can't ignore them, I suppose.
他不能简单地置之不理，因为人们对这些说法有着一种民众层面的狂热。
He can't just dismiss them because there's a kind of populist enthusiasm for them.
他担心的就是这个吗？
Is that what he's worried about?
人们会说，哦，他是犹太人的朋友，而我们听说他们企图杀害许多基督徒，诸如此类的胡言乱语。
That the people will say, oh, he's a friend of the Jews, and we've heard that they're out to kill lots of Christians and blah blah blah blah.
所以他干脆决定把这事压下去。
So he just thinks, I'll shut this down.
是的。
Yeah.
他不想让人觉得他实行了双重标准，你这么说也行。
He doesn't want to seem like he's applying two tier justice, you might say.
对。
Yeah.
非常好。
Very good.
因此，结果就是这个叫西蒙·德·诺瓦斯的人，他是个杀人犯，刚刚杀了人——我们不知道是因为他欠了这个人钱吗？
And so the result of that is this bloke, Simon de Novas, who's a murderer and has just killed we we don't because he owed this bloke money?
这基本上完全是出于自我利益。
Is that the basically, it's it's pure self interest.
他杀了那个他欠钱的人，却逍遥法外。
He killed this bloke that he owed money to, and he's got away with it.
但这件事还带来了一个更为重大的后果，那就是威廉作为殉道者的声誉从被遗忘中被拯救出来，并得到了强有力的确认。
But there's another profoundly more momentous consequence of this, which is that William's status as a martyr is kind of redeemed from oblivion and very powerfully confirmed.
但要彻底巩固诺维奇的威廉升为圣徒的地位，还需要再完成两个步骤。
But there are still two further steps which are needed to absolutely consolidate William of Norwich's elevation to the ranks of the saints.
而这两个步骤都恰恰发生在同一年的十月，即诺维奇和伦敦的两次审判之际。
And both very tellingly are set in this year October that witnesses the two trials in Norwich and London.
而这两次审判都涉及同一个人，他就是托马斯·蒙茅斯。
And both of them involve the same guy who is none other than Thomas of Monmouth.
所以，托马斯在晨祷后躺在修道院的宿舍里，做了一个异象。
So that lent, Thomas is resting in the monk's dormitory after Matins, and he has a vision.
这是一个关于诺维奇大教堂的创建者和首位主教赫伯特·德·洛斯·英格的异象。
It's a vision of the founder and first bishop of Norwich, cathedral, a guy called Herbert de los Inge.
托马斯描述他是一位面容庄重、灰发苍苍、身着熠熠生辉的主教长袍的人。
And, Thomas describes him as being a man of venerable looks with gray hair, clothed in episcopal robes that glistened with an incomparable whiteness.
主教指示托马斯·蒙茅斯立即通知主教和修道院院长——也就是修道院的负责人——那位被杀害的十二岁男孩、殉道者威廉的遗骸，原本被埋在索普伍德的非祝圣土地上，必须紧急迁葬至大教堂内。
And the bishop instructs Thomas of Monmouth to inform both the bishop and the prior, so the head of the monastery, that the body of the martyred boy, the martyred 12 year old William, who originally had been buried in unconsecrated ground out in Thorpewood, that his relics must be translated as a matter of urgency into the cathedral itself.
于是托马斯前往见主教。
And Thomas goes to the bishop.
他去找了院长。
He goes to the prio.
他向他们讲述了这一非凡的显圣，他们便顺从地将诺维奇的威廉遗骸移入大教堂内。
He tell he reveals this spectacular visitation, and they obediently place William of Norwich's relics inside the cathedral.
但托马斯·蒙茅斯随后采取的关键一步，是撰写了一部殉道者的生平传记，而这正是日后被M.发现的那部传记。
But the key step that Thomas of Monmouth then takes is to write a life of the martyr, and this is the very same life that one day will be discovered by M.
R.
R.
詹姆斯并予以出版。
James and published.
还有H.
And H.
P.
P.
H.P.洛夫克拉夫特，这位伟大的美国恐怖小说作家，将他在詹姆斯故事中发现的特质描述为一种近乎恶魔般唤起恐怖的力量。
Lovecraft, the great American writer of horror stories, described the quality he found embodied in James' stories as an almost diabolic power of calling up horror.
但我认为，詹姆斯所写的任何作品都无法与托马斯·蒙茅斯所记载的圣威廉·诺里奇的生平与奇迹所蕴含的恶魔般力量相提并论，也无法与它持久的恐怖影响相比。
But I think that nothing that James ever wrote could begin to compare with the diabolic power of the life and miracles of Saint William of Norwich, which Thomas of Monmouth wrote, nor with the horror of its enduring impact.
因为尽管今天几乎无人记得，尽管你知道，当时仅有一份由M.R.詹姆斯发现的抄本，你仍可以说，这是英格兰有史以来最具影响力的文本之一。
Because although it's barely remembered today, although, you know, there was only the single copy that MR James found, you could argue that this is one of the most influential texts ever written in England.
有趣的是，它对诺里奇本地的影响似乎并不深远。
Now interestingly, its influence on Norwich itself doesn't seem to have been that profound.
因此，这座城市的人们并没有将这位少年殉道者奉为心中的圣者。
So, essentially, people in the city don't take this boy martyr to their heart.
所以，正如E.
So to quote E.
M.
M.
罗斯，那些务实的诺里奇商人、工匠和贵族并未信服威廉的圣洁。
Rose, the hard headed Norwich merchants, artisans, and aristocracy were not persuaded of William's sanctity.
而负责这种形象塑造的托马斯·蒙茅斯对此感到极度愤怒。
And Thomas, who's of Monmouth, who's very much the guy in charge of the kind of the branding, is absolutely irate by this.
他详细记录了人们如何嘲笑他的种种细节。
He he kind of records all kinds of details about how people just laughed at him.
我想，人们之所以嘲笑他，是因为你可能会认为，拥有本地知识的人比外来者更有资格评估其中有多少虚构成分。
And I guess that they're laughing at him because you would imagine that people with local knowledge are much better qualified than, than outsiders to evaluate the degree of fabrication that has gone on.
我想，诺里奇的大多数人可能都认为，关于这个早逝男孩的命运，我们能确定的只有两点：他死得太年轻，而且他的尸体是在索普伍德被发现的，其余的一切都无从确证。
And I guess that most people in Norwich would probably have thought that there's nothing really that can be said with any certainty about the fate of of the poor boy who died beyond that he had died too young and that his body had been found in Thorpewood and everything else.
因此，关于他究竟如何受伤、在哪里被发现等细节，本质上都只是推测。
So the issue of how exactly he was wounded, where he was found, everything else is essentially kind of supposition.
是的。
Yeah.
因此我认为，这就是诺维奇的人们对此感到怀疑甚至有些尴尬的原因。
And so I think that that's why people are skeptical and a bit embarrassed about it, I think, in Norwich.
但问题是，在更远的地方，人们缺乏这种本地背景，托马斯的故事迅速产生了毁灭性的影响。
But the problem is is that further afield where people don't have that local context, the influence of Thomas' story, very rapidly proves to be devastating.
他所提供的，本质上是一些可以被无限重复使用的叙事元素。
And what he has done is to provide essentially the building blocks for a story that can just be kind of endlessly recycled.
因此，在随后的几十年乃至几个世纪里，托马斯·蒙茅斯对威廉谋杀案的描述中所包含的元素被一遍又一遍地重复使用。
So over the the the decades and the centuries that follow, the the elements that feature in Thomas of Monmouth's account of William's murder are kind of recycled and recycled over and over again.
于是你看到一个无辜的孩子被残忍地、仪式性地杀害。
So you get the innocent child who is brutally, ritualistically put to death.
你看到犹太人不是被当作个体，而是被塑造成邪恶的典型形象。
You have the presentation of Jews not as individuals, but as kind of malevolent archetypes.
这些典型形象追溯至希律、该隐、犹大，以及那些向彼拉多呼喊要处死基督的人群。
And these archetypes are reaching back to Herod, to Cain, to Judas, to the crowds who had called on Pilate to execute Christ.
正如圣经中的这些人物是阴险的典型象征，人们也感到这些形象一直延续到了今天。
And just as as these are, you know, the figures in in the Bible are sinister archetypes, so you have the sense that these archetypes are enduring into the present day.
还有那位悲痛欲绝的母亲寻找孩子的形象，总爱从钥匙孔偷看这些可怕谋杀的女仆，殉道者遗体散发的香气，以及他的遗物所行的奇迹。
And you have the figure of the distraught mother looking for her child, the inquisitive maidservant who is always, you know, looking through the keyhole at these terrible murders, the perfume quality of the martyr's corpse, the miracles performed by his relics.
不过实际上，在托马斯·蒙茅斯的记载中，这些奇迹并不出色。
Although, actually, in Thomas of Monmouth's account, the miracles aren't brilliant.
我的意思是，它们根本算不上什么了不起的事。
I mean, they're not nothing incredible.
而且有趣的是，这些奇迹与犹太人毫无关系。
And also interestingly, they don't relate to the Jews.
所以你看，比如一个嵌甲，
So they are you know, it's you've got an ingrown toenail.
你去看了，
You go.
然后就好了。
It's cured.
就是这种级别的奇迹。
It's that kind of level.
这些奇迹并没有反复强调犹太人的罪恶这一主题。
They're not miracles that continue to harp on the theme of kind of Jewish iniquity.
但随着故事的传播，细节不是会越来越丰富吗？
But then you get refinements, don't you, as the story spreads?
即使在印刷术出现之前，故事也能迅速传播。
So even though this is an age before print, stories can spread very quickly.
我想你可能会说，这就像一个网络迷因。
I suppose you might say it's like a meme.
就像一个传播开来的网络迷因，当然。
It's like a meme that spreads, mind you.
就在托马斯和蒙茅斯的故事出现后的几年内，布卢瓦地区也开始流传类似的故事，那里的犹太人最终被布卢瓦伯爵烧死。
So only a few years after Thomas and Monmouth's story has appeared, something similar is is being told about in Blois, where Jews end up being burnt by the count of Blois.
当然，斯蒂芬的英格兰与布卢瓦之间的联系非常明显，因为斯蒂芬本人就是布卢瓦伯爵。
And, of course, there are the links between Stephen's England and Blois are very obvious because Stephen is the count of Blois.
所以你可以看到，这种说法是如何逐渐扩散的。
So you can see it how it's kind of spreading.
但在德国的富尔达，十二月出现了一种可怕的全新扭曲。
But it's in Germany that there's a a terrible new refinement in Fulda in December.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
因为在富尔达，五个男孩的尸体在圣诞节当天被发现。
Because in Fulda, the bodies of five boys are found on Christmas day.
他们声称，犹太人杀害这些男孩，并非为了重现钉十字架的恐怖，而是出于另一个原因——将儿童的血液混入逾越节无酵饼中。
And they say that the Jews had murdered these boys not because they were kind of reproducing the horrors of the crucifixion, but for a different reason, namely to mix the blood of the children with the Passover unleavened bread.
显然，这简直疯狂。
And obviously, I mean, this is mad.
关键是，犹太人根本不会喝血。
The whole point is that Jews don't drink blood.
很难说清楚这种特定的扭曲究竟是如何以及为何出现的。
And it's hard to know how and why this particular refinement comes about.
也许这与基督徒自身对饮用基督之血这一观念的焦虑有关。
Maybe it's to do with anxieties on the part of Christians themselves around the idea that they drink Christ's blood.
是的。
Yeah.
这似乎显而易见。
That seems the obvious.
我的意思是，这可能是目前学术界最普遍的解释。
I mean, that seems I think it's generally the kind of probably the most popular scholarly re explanation for it.
但其后果极其严重。
But the consequences are terrible.
因此在富尔达，又有34名犹太人被烧死。
So in Fulda, 34 Jews, again, are burned to death.
这类故事不断重复发生，一再上演。
And these stories just keep on happening and happening and happening.
尽管无论是指控犹太人折磨儿童致死以模仿钉十字架，还是指控他们将儿童血液混入无酵饼，都已被德国帝国委员会明确谴责为诽谤，随后在十二月又被教廷亲自否认。
Even though the notion of Jews torturing children to death, whether to replicate the crucifixion or to mix their blood with, unleavened bread, is condemned very explicitly as a libel, first by an imperial commission in Germany, and then in December by the papacy itself.
但这种情况开始发生变化，不是吗？
But that begins to change, doesn't it?
因为很快，就连以往大多试图保护犹太人群体的世俗当局，也屈服于这种阴谋论和民众的愤怒，开始参与迫害。
Because soon even the authorities, the secular authorities who previously have by and large tried to protect their Jewish populations, they give in to the kind of conspiracy theory into the sort of populist outrage, and they start to to join in the persecutions.
是的。
They do.
所以就在教皇正式谴责血祭诽谤两年后的十二月，林肯发生了一起可怕的事件。
So in December, which is only two years after the papacy has officially condemned the blood libel, a terrible discovery is made in Lincoln.
而且again，又涉及一名被谋杀的儿童。
And again, it features a murdered child.
一个名叫休的小男孩被发现死在井底，90名犹太人因此被逮捕，指控他们谋杀了这个男孩。
So a small boy named Hugh is found at the bottom of a well, And 90 Jews are arrested for the boy's murder.
这一次，是国王本人——亨利三世——下令逮捕他们，并将他们押往伦敦塔。
And this time, it's done on the orders of the king himself, Henry the third, who takes them to the Tower Of London.
有18人被处以绞刑。
18 are hanged.
被谋杀的男孩被安葬在林肯大教堂，并被当地居民奉为殉道者。
The murdered boy is entombed in Lincoln Cathedral and hailed by locals as a martyr.
他的遗体一直被供奉在林肯大教堂，被视为该教堂最重要的圣人之一，直至宗教改革时期，尽管教廷本身明确拒绝承认其封圣。
And he is kept there as a kind of, you know, one of the great saints of Lincoln Cathedral, right the way up to the Reformation, even though the papacy itself very pointedly refuses to confirm the canonisation.
这并未阻止以‘小圣休’之名兴起的崇拜浪潮。
This does not inhibit the growth of the cult of little Saint Hugh as he comes to be called.
直到今天，你仍能在林肯大教堂看到他祭坛的石基，如今教会与当地犹太团体已联合发布了一份关于偏见与迫害的声明，但这仍提醒着人们，这类观念曾经多么普遍和流行。
You can see the stone base of his shrine in Lincoln Cathedral to this day, and there's now a sort of a statement drafted by kind of the church and local Jewish groups about, you know, bigotry and persecution and stuff, but it's a reminder of how widespread and how popular actually this kind of stuff was.
是的。
Yeah.
到这个时候，就连教会本身——尽管其高层曾试图抵制这种血祭诽谤——也开始转变态度。
And by this point, even the church itself, which, you know, in its higher echelons had had tried to stand against this blood libel.
此时，教会会议和神学家们也开始否定犹太人与基督徒可能拥有共同人性的观点。
By now, church councils, church scholars, even they are starting to repudiate the notion that Jews and Christians might kind of share a common humanity.
早在1215年，由英诺森三世召开的拉特兰大公会议——这位中世纪最强大的教皇，曾发动阿尔比十字军——就下令要求犹太人必须通过服饰在公众面前与其他族群明确区分开来。
So already in 12/15, the Lateran Council held by Innocent the third, the most powerful of all the the great medieval popes, the guy who had launched the the Albigensian crusade, had ordered Jews at all times to be marked off in the eyes of the public from other peoples through the character of their clothing.
十二月，另一场教会会议正式颁布法令，禁止犹太人与基督徒发生性关系。
In December, sexual relations between Jews and Christians are banned by the formal decree of another church council.
十二月，德国的一名方济各会修士起草了一部法典，规定犹太人与基督徒发生性关系属死罪。
And in December, a Franciscan in Germany draws up a law code, which makes it a capital offense for Jews and Christians to have sexual relations.
十二月，英格兰国王亨利三世之子爱德华一世将这种有害趋势的逻辑推向了终极结局——他下令所有犹太人永久离开英格兰，直到奥利弗·克伦威尔时代才得以重返。
And in December, Edward the first, so he's the son of Henry the third, the king of England, he pushes the logic of this, you know, this baneful trend, I guess, to its kind of ultimate conclusion when he orders all the Jews in England to leave for good, and they will not return until the time of of Oliver Cromwell.
因此，可以说，尽管诺里奇的人们曾嘲笑托马斯·蒙茅斯将威廉奉为圣人的做法，但最终笑到最后的却是托马斯·蒙茅斯，带着一种阴险的笑意。
So I guess you could say that in that sense, even though the people of Norwich laughed at Thomas of Monmouth for promoting William as a saint, it's Thomas of Monmouth who has the last kind of Sinister laugh.
是的。
Yeah.
最后那痛苦的一笑。
The last painful laugh.
所以，他写的那本《诺里奇的威廉传》，我们一开始提到的这本书，标题听起来很枯燥，但实际上，你可以说它是英格兰历史上最阴险、最恶毒、最具影响力的著作之一。
So his book, that life of William of Norwich, that's what we began with, you know, this the title sounds very boring to but, actually, you could argue it is one of the most sinister, poisonous, and influential texts ever published in England.
是的。
Yeah.
因为血祭诽谤至今仍在被重复传播。
Because the the Blood Libel continues to be repeated even to this day.
好的。
Alright.
这真是一个令人不寒而栗又发人深省的故事，汤姆。
Well, what a chilling and instructive story, Tom.
非常感谢。
Thank you very much.
我们下次再见，希望那时的话题能稍微轻松一点。
We will see you next time for something hopefully a little bit more cheerful.
再见。
Bye bye.
再见。
Bye bye.
对一些人来说，他是那位将中国重新带回世界舞台 rightful 位置的革命英雄。
To some, he is the revolutionary hero who restored China to its rightful place on the global stage.
对另一些人来说，他是一个残酷的暴君，被指控造成的平民死亡人数超过了斯大林或希特勒。
To others, he's a brutal despot, accused of presiding over more civilian deaths than either Stalin or Hitler.
毛泽东拥有世界上最易辨认的面孔之一，然而他的人生始于一个泥泞的乡村。
Mao Zedong has one of the most recognizable faces in the world, yet he started life in a muddy provincial village.
一个憎恨父亲的叛逆之子，徒步穿越中国六千英里后幸存下来，并崛起成为一位具有巨大影响力的人物。
A rebel son who hated his father survived a 6,000 mile walk across China and rose to become a figure of titanic proportions.
这里是《帝国：Goalhanger世界历史节目》，我是安妮塔·阿南。
From Empire, The Goalhanger World History Show, I'm Anita Arnan.
我是威廉·杜林普。
And I'm William Durimple.
在这个六集系列中，我们邀请到世界知名专家拉纳·梅塔，共同探讨共产主义中国之父毛泽东的一生。
In this six part series, we're joined by world renowned expert, Rana Mehta, to explore the life of the father of communist China, Mao Zedong.
我们将追溯他从书店老板到游击队指挥官的崛起之路，并见证他为巩固绝对权力而进行的无情清洗。
We'll track his rise from a book store owner to a guerrilla commander, and we'll witness his ruthless elimination to secure total power.
我们还将深入探究文化大革命这场黑暗实验——那是一个古庙被焚毁、子女告发父母、全民将一颗芒果奉为圣物的时代。
And we'll descend into the dark experiment of the Cultural Revolution, a time when ancient temples were burnt, children dourged their parents, and a nation worshiped a mango as a sacred relic.
在您收听播客的平台订阅《帝国》，立即收听。
Subscribe to Empire wherever you get your podcasts to listen now.
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