645. 印加帝国的覆灭：安第斯山的大屠杀（下）

是的

Yeah.

同意

Accepted.

但我想稍微再深入一点这个问题。

But just just to kind of slightly push on this.

嗯

Mhmm.

印加人生活在混乱之中。

The Incas are living among chaos.

他们的帝国正遭受瘟疫的肆虐。

Their empire is being swept by plague.

这场可怕的内战尚未平息，而这些带着怪异动物的奇特人物突然出现了。

There is this terrible civil war, and now these peculiar people with mad animals have turned up.

是的

Yeah.

有没有一种关于印加宇宙观中不同时代、时间循环的感觉？

Is there a sense of the kind of the Incan cosmology of different ages of, you know, cycles of time?

这是否预示着一个新的时间循环，一种末日般的氛围？

And might this be presaging a new cycle of time, a kind of apocalyptic sense?

我认为是有的。

I think there is.

确实有一种末日感。

There's definitely apocalyptic there.

确实存在一种倾向。

There's definitely a strain.

有关于世界末日之类的传说。

There were stories of the end of the world and things like that.

但你并不会强烈感觉到人们认为这就是末日来临。

But you don't get a massive sense that people think this is the end of days.

这些人是某种可怕灾难的先兆，所有这些都属于这一类。

These people are the heralds of some terrible doom, all of this kind of thing.

我认为实际上大多数人正在做出更务实的政治考量。

I think actually most people are making much more pragmatic political considerations.

我的意思是，你可以

I mean, you can do

两者都做，不是吗？

both, can't you?

而不是末日论或终末论的视角。

Rather than apocalyptic or eschatological ones.

我们并没有太多证据表明人们用末日论的视角看待西班牙人的到来，但我们确实有证据显示他们在进行马基雅维利式的算计。

We don't have really that much evidence of people thinking in apocalyptic terms about the coming of the Spaniards, But we do have evidence about them making Machiavellian calculations.

关于他们如何利用这168个新来者，尤其是马匹这一变量。

About what they can do with this new variable of 168 people, with the horses in particular.

我认为阿塔瓦尔帕正是在这么做。

I think that's what Atahualpa is doing by the way.

我认为阿塔瓦尔帕正坐在卡亚马尔卡。

I think Atawelpa is sitting there in Kayomarka.

他在考虑内战。

He's thinking about the civil war.

实际上，未来一年左右的所有证据都表明，阿塔瓦尔帕想的几乎全是内战。

All the evidence actually for the next year or so is that that's pretty much all Atawelpa is thinking about is the civil war.

我认为他认为这些人会是极好的雇佣兵。

I think he thinks these will be excellent mercenaries.

或者如果他能

Or if he can

杀了他们，夺走他们的马，找到能为他打造刀剑的人。

kill them, get their horses, get their the guy who can make the swords for him.

是的，当然。

Yes, of course.

你知道，这简直就是尖端技术，不是吗？

You know, it's literally a cutting edge, isn't it?

没错。

Exactly.

我认为他对他们的军事技术非常感兴趣，觉得这非常出色。

That that I think that's his I think his their military technology really interests him, and he thinks brilliant.

我可以利用这个来彻底消灭瓦斯卡尔的派系，完成我在内战中的胜利。

I can use this to finish off Huascar's faction, complete my victory in the civil war.

他没有理由认为这会是一个生存威胁。

There's no reason for him to think this is an existential threat.

当然，西班牙人知道蒙特苏马在墨西哥遭遇了什么。

The Spaniards, of course, know what happened in Mexico to Montezuma.

他不知道。

He doesn't know.

他以前从未听说过西班牙人。

He's never heard of the Spaniards before.

我的意思是，即使在这个阶段，他们或许在考虑斩首策略——抓住最高领导人，可能还有他的家人和一些精英，然后让帝国陷入无首状态。

I mean, even at this stage, they are maybe thinking a decapitation strategy, you capture the top man, maybe some of his family, some of the elite, and then you leave the empire leaderless.

这种策略对埃尔南·科尔特斯有效。

It worked for Hernan Cortes.

这招对你表弟弗朗西斯科有用。

It worked for your cousin Francisco.

也许对你也管用。

Maybe it'll work for you.

我觉得，抓住领导人这种做法，已经深植于西班牙人的基因里了。

I guess that kind of, you know, capturing leading people is in the DNA of the of the Spaniards.

我的意思是，这其实也是所有基督徒的基因特征。

I mean, it's in the DNA of all Christians.

我的意思是，那长达百年的战争传统。

I mean, all that hundred years of war stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

抓人并以此勒索钱财，这就是欧洲士兵的做派。

Capturing people and using that to get money is what European soldiers do.

现在不是1527年吗？

Isn't it 1527?

他们入侵了罗马，洗劫了罗马，并俘虏了教皇。

They invaded the Rome, sacked Rome, took the pope prisoner.

从而引发了英国宗教改革。

Thereby causing the English reformation.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

所以西班牙人正越来越接近，正如老马丁在那场戏剧的阅读中所描述的那样。

So the Spanish are coming closer and closer just as old Martin describes in that reading from the play.

他们从太平洋转向内陆，进入安第斯山脉，穿过这片山谷，穿过棉田，深入峡谷。

They turn inland from the Pacific and they go up into the Andes, they go up through this valley, through the cotton fields, into the canyons.

他们现在海拔约一万三千英尺，因此气喘吁吁、寒冷刺骨，天气冻得要命，也没有遮蔽之处。

They're now about 13,000 feet above sea level, so they're breathless, they're cold, it's absolutely freezing, there's no shelter.

他们非常紧张，因为他们能时刻看到瞭望塔上有人在监视他们。

They're very anxious because they can see people watching them the whole time from watch towers.

我无法想象自己会这么做。

I cannot imagine doing it.

这太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

这简直像是疯狂的行为。

It just seems insane behavior.

安多·皮萨罗说，他们随时都可以消灭我们。

And Ando Pizarro said, They could have finished us off at any time.

我们在山路上无法使用马匹。

We couldn't use the horses on the mountain roads.

离开道路后，马匹和步兵都无法通行。

Off the roads, could take neither horses nor foot soldiers.

我们完全暴露无遗，沿着这些山间小道蜿蜒前行。

We were completely vulnerable, snaking along these kind of mountain passes.

印加人正在注视着我们，但他们没有采取行动。

And the Incub's are watching us but they are not acting.

实际上，根据后来的编年史和记载，我们了解到阿塔瓦尔帕的一些顾问曾问：为什么让这些人进来？

Actually, we know from what we get the sense from later chronicles and things, that some of Atahualpa's counsellors said, why are you letting these people come?

为什么不现在就出击，把他们全部杀掉？

Why not just strike now and kill them all?

阿塔瓦尔帕却对他们说：为区区一百七十人如此担忧真是愚蠢。

And Attawelper says to them, it is folly to be so concerned about a 170 men.

让我们先弄清楚他们是谁。

Let's find out who they are.

我们又能失去什么呢？

What what have we got to lose?

让他们继续过来吧。

Let them keep coming.

他真的很想看看那些马。

He really wants to see the horses.

他想看看那些拥有奇怪武器、一开火就让人四散奔逃的人——那些火绳枪之类的武器。

He wants to see these guys who have strange weapons that make an explosion, and everyone runs away, arquebuses and stuff.

这和蒙特苏马有点不同。

And it's a bit different from Montezuma.

蒙特苏马在他的首都，在宫殿里。

Montezuma was in his capital, in the palace.

阿塔瓦尔帕则带着他的军队。

Atahualpa is with his army.

他身边有八万名士兵，驻扎在军营中。

He's in a military camp with 80,000 men.

他为什么要害怕不到两百人呢？

Why would he be frightened about fewer than 200

他刚刚赢得了一场极其血腥的内战。

He's just won a very bloody civil war.

当然。

Of course.

我的意思是，没人会怀疑，如果有必要，他随时准备碾碎敌人。

I mean, no one can be in any doubt that he's ready to crush his enemies if he has to.

没错。

Exactly.

在11月9日，他们又收到了阿塔瓦尔帕派来的信使。

On the November 9, they get another messenger from Atawalpa.

信使带来了十只羊驼作为礼物，并说皇帝正在凯马尔卡附近的温泉处，就在凯马尔卡外。

The messenger brings them 10 llamas as a gift and he says, the emperor is at the hot springs near Kayamarca, outside Kayamarca.

他们距离那里有五天的路程。

They're five days march away.

他期待着与你们见面。

Is looking forward to seeing you.

他们行进缓慢，五天后抵达了凯马尔卡山谷前的最后一个村庄，名叫萨瓦纳。

They make slow progress and five days later they reach the last village before the Valley Of Kayamarca, which is called Zavana.

他们已经在路上行进了五十二天，总计六个月，自从离开海岸以来，他们一开始耽搁了很长时间。

They've now been on the road for fifty two days, six months in total since they left the coast because they've dallied at first.

另一位信使为他们送来了食物，说阿塔瓦尔帕迫不及待，期待与你们见面。

Another messenger brings them food from Atawelpa, says he can't wait, looking forward to seeing you.

皮萨罗对他的士兵们说：‘好了，准备战斗吧，我们已经很近了。’

Pizarro says to his men, Right, get ready for battle now, we're pretty close.

所以这是14号，接下来的一天是15号。

So that's the fourteenth, the next day is the fifteenth.

山路最后一次上升，他们在中午左右到达了最高点。

The path rises for the last time in the mountains and they reach the highest point at around midday.

他们往下看，看到了凯亚马卡山谷。

They look down and they see the Valley Of Kayamaica.

它只有几英里宽，土地非常肥沃，到处是棉花种植园。

It's only a few miles wide, it's very fertile, fields of cotton plantations.

他们能看见镇上的石制建筑在阳光下闪闪发亮。

They can see the stone buildings of the town glinting in the sunlight.

再往远处，在镇子后方四英里处，他们看到一片白色形状的海洋。

And then beyond that, four miles behind the town, they can see this, what looks like a sea of white shapes.

那是阿塔瓦尔帕军队的帐篷，人数多达数万。

And these are the tents of Attawelpa's army, tens of thousands strong.

因此，引用一位征服者的话：可见的帐篷如此之多，让我们充满了深深的恐惧。

So to quote one of the conquistadors: So many tents were visible that we were filled with great apprehension.

我们从未想过印第安人——这里用的是我的术语——竟能维持如此宏伟的营地，拥有如此众多且井然有序的帐篷。

We never thought that Indians, here's terminology in lot mine, could maintain such a proud estate nor have so many tents in such good order.

这令我们所有西班牙人都感到恐惧与混乱，但绝不能表现出任何畏惧，更不能退缩。

It filled all of us Spaniards with fear and confusion, but it was not appropriate to show any fear, far less to turn back.

于是皮萨罗说：来吧，我们上吧。

And so Pizarro says, come on then, let's do this.

他们策马奔腾，开始沿着小路向卡拉萨卡镇下行。

And they spur their horses and they begin to descend the path towards the town of Callamaca.

天啊！

God!

他们接近卡拉萨卡的城墙，穿过城门。

So they approach the wall of Callamaca, they go through the gate.

今天的卡拉萨卡是一座非常美丽的西班牙殖民风格城镇。

Callamaca today is a very handsome Spanish colonial town.

当时，这是一个拥有约两千人口的印加城镇。

At the time it was an Inca town of about 2,000 people.

当他们到达时，那里几乎没有人。

When they get there, there's hardly anybody there.

街道空无一人，寂静无声，看不到任何人的踪影。

The streets are deserted, quiet, there are no people to be seen.

一位西班牙回忆录作者后来说，我们能听到的只有妇女们幽灵般的哀歌，她们在歌唱那些激怒了伟大印加帝国的陌生人所面临的死亡。

One Spanish memoirist said later, all we could hear was the ghostly keening of women singing of the death that awaits the strangers who have provoked the wrath of the great Inca.

我的意思是，这真的非常可怕。

I mean, that's pretty terrifying.

于是他们继续前进，经过太阳神庙，又经过另一座修道院，最终来到了卡哈马卡的主要广场。

So they press on, they go past the Sun Temple, they go past another of these convents, and they emerge into this main square of Cajamarca.

现在，这一点对大家来说至关重要，一定要记住。

Now, very important for people to get this into their heads.

这个广场三面被一排排低矮的石砌建筑环绕。

This square is surrounded on three sides by these long, low stone buildings.

这些建筑每栋长200码，每栋大约有20扇门。

They were 200 yards long and each of these buildings had about 20 doors in it.

这些其实叫卡拉尔卡，是用来接待路过此地、参加劳役队或军队，或是前来参加宗教节日等的朝圣者的宿舍。

Basically what they were, they were called kalankas and they were used as dormitories for people who came through the town to work in the labour gangs or in the army, or even pilgrims arriving for a religious festival or something like that.

他们被这些低矮的长条建筑环绕在广场中央，却不见任何人影。

They're there surrounded by these long low buildings in the middle of this square, and there's no one else there.

天开始下雨了。

And it starts to rain.

于是他们说，我们进这些建筑里避雨吧。

And they say, well, let's go into these buildings.

他们走进兵营寻求庇护。

And they go and take shelter in the barracks.

多米尼克，我还能问一下吗？广场中央是不是有个仪式平台？

Dominic, also can I just ask, in the the middle of this square, there's a kind of a ceremonial platform, isn't there?

那个平台也会起到作用。

So that's also gonna play a part.

没错。

Exactly.

所以皮萨罗和他的军官们聚在一起。

So Pizarro and his captains gather around.

他们开了一场小型军事会议，每个人都非常紧张。

They have a little councilor war, and they're all very nervous.

你知道，这里一个人也没有。

You know, there's no one here.

到底发生了什么？

What's going on?

我的意思是，你怎么可能不紧张呢？

I mean, how could you not be nervous?

当然。

Of course.

我并不是在指责他们。

I'm not I'm not knocking them.

那是一个

That's a

听起来你是在评判他们。

sound like you're you're judging them.

我不会紧张。

I wouldn't be nervous.

来自科茨沃尔德的中心。

From the heart of the Cotswolds.

是的。

Yeah.

他派了他的副官埃尔南多·德索去，说：我想让你去阿塔瓦尔帕那里，去他的营地，无论他在哪儿，他就在那些温泉附近或类似的地方。

He sends his lieutenant, Hernando de So to, he says, I want you to go over to Attawala, go over to his camp, wherever he is, he's at these hot springs or whatever they are.

带上你最精锐的15名骑兵。

Take 15 of your best horsemen.

带上一名翻译一起去。

Take one of the interpreters with you.

西班牙人对那是费利佩还是马蒂尼都意见不一，或者他们根本分不清区别。

The Spanish can't agree whether it's Felipe or Martini or they know the difference.

弄清楚他想要什么，他的计划是什么，他希望我们待在哪里，所有这些。

Find out what he wants, what his plan is, where does he want us to stay, all of this.

所以索带着骑兵，十五个人出发了。

So to goes off with the cavalry, 15 men.

弗朗西斯科和他弟弟埃尔南多一起去散步。

Francisco goes for a walk with his brother Hernando.

埃尔南多跟着他，说：我觉得我们其实犯了个错误。

Hernando goes with him and says, I think we made a mistake actually.

你刚把我们最好的骑兵派去见阿塔瓦尔帕。

You've just sent our best horsemen off to Atahualpa.

他们只有十五个人。

There's only 15 of them.

如果印加人反过来对付他们，那他们就完蛋了。

If the Incas turn on them, you know, there's curtains for them.

弗朗西斯科说：是的，你说得对。

And Francisco says, Yeah, you're right actually.

你去追他们。

You go after them.

再带二十个人去追他们。

Take 20 more men and go after them.

费尔南多照做了。

Fernando does.

这对我们和所有听这个播客的人而言都非常幸运，因为费尔南多带上的这些人中，有一些人后来写了关于此事的书籍。

And that's very lucky for us and for everyone listening to this podcast because among the men that Hernando takes are people who wrote books about it afterwards.

有一位叫米格尔·德·埃斯特ete的人，还有一位叫迭戈·德·特鲁希略的人，他们都撰写了长篇的目击记录，当然，按照传统的西班牙征服者风格，他们在细节上彼此矛盾。

So there's a guy called Miguel de Estete and there's a guy called Diego de Trujillo and they both wrote long eyewitness accounts of the meeting, which of course in traditional Spanish Conquistador fashion, disagree with each other on the details.

无论如何，费尔南多沿着一条石路追赶索托，这条路从城镇延伸四英里，到达一个叫普尔塔·马尔卡的地方。

Anyway, Hernando is following So to along this stone road, which goes out for four miles from the town to a place called Pulta Marca.

今天这里叫班诺斯·德尔·印加，即印加人的浴场，这告诉你它曾经是什么样子。

Today it's called Banos Del Inca, the Baths Of The Inca, tells you what it was like.

这基本上是一个泉眼，一个温泉浴场。

It's basically a spring, it's a spa.

阿塔瓦尔帕正在那里泡温泉。

Atahualpa is taking the waters there.

要到达那里，他们必须穿过阿塔瓦尔帕的军队，经过一顶顶帐篷。

And to get there, they have to go pass through Atahualpa's army to all the tents.

阿斯特特在他的记载中说：我们极度恐惧地穿过一排排士兵，他们只是沉默地盯着我们。

And Astete in his account says, We were absolutely terrified, advancing through these ranks and ranks of soldiers who were just staring at us in silence.

但必须表现出一种冷静和

But having to convey a sense of cool and

坚毅。

fortitude.

是的，当然，想象一下。

Yeah, of course, imagine.

就像《现代启示录》里他们抵达马龙·白兰度营地时，所有部落居民都默默凝视着他们的那一幕。

It's like the bit in Apocalypse Now when they arrive at Marlon Brando's camp and all the tribesmen are just staring at them silently.

就像那样。

It's like that.

最终他们穿过了营地，来到了阿塔瓦尔帕的宫殿建筑，也就是他的乡间别墅之类的。

And finally they get through the camp and there's Atawalpa's palace building, his country house or whatever it is.

这是一座有两座塔楼的石砌建筑，大约有400名战士在守卫。

This stone building with two towers and there's about 400 warriors guarding it.

他们能听到的只有热水管道和水池中水流的汩汩声，一片死寂。

And all they can hear is the water bubbling in the pipes and pools of the hot springs, just this deathly silence.

他们的翻译说：我们想见皇帝。

Their interpreter says, We'd like to see the emperor.

阿塔瓦尔帕没有出来。

Atahualpa doesn't come out.

而脾气暴躁的埃尔南多·皮萨罗开始大喊：去叫那个狗东西出来！

And Hernando Pizarro, who's very hot tempered, starts shouting, Tell that dog to come out!

天啊，幸好他们听不懂西班牙语。

God, it's lucky they didn't speak Spanish.

最终，一位贵族出现了，原来是他们的老熟人西钦查拉。

Eventually, a nobleman appears and it's their old mate, Sicinchara.

他们之间有一些互动，实际上非常混乱。

There's some form of interaction, very garbled actually.

最终，到了他们要见到皇帝的时刻。

And eventually, the moment comes where they will see the emperor.

不过根据记载，不清楚他们是进去还是阿塔瓦尔帕出来，我认为他们是进去了。

Though what's unclear from the accounts is if they go in or Atawalpa comes out, I think they go in actually.

阿普不在。

Apu isn't around.

嗯，阿普可能是西金查拉。

Well, Apu may be Sikin Chhara.

这就是令人困惑的地方。

This is the confusing thing.

那么，为什么所有记载都这么混乱呢？

So why are all the accounts so garbled?

这揭示了故事中的混乱之处。

This cuts to the confusion of the story.

西班牙人自己也非常困惑，因为他们根本不清楚发生了什么。

The Spaniards themselves are very confused because they don't really know what's going on.

他们一句克丘亚语都不会说。

They don't speak a word of Quechua.

他们身处一片陌生的土地。

They're in this new land.

他们简直就像在另一个星球上一样。

They might as well be on an alien planet.

奇怪的人，奇怪的习俗，一切都很怪异。

Weird people, weird customs, all this.

他们的翻译毫无用处。

And their interpreters are useless.

所以无论在那里的是费利皮奥还是马丁奥，他们都结结巴巴，语无伦次。

So whoever is there, either Felipio or Martinio, they stumble and stutter.

他们自己一定也很害怕。

Must be frightened themselves.

他们说话时结结巴巴，语无伦次。

They're stumbling and stuttering over their words.

实际上，当他们与阿塔瓦尔帕交谈时，阿塔瓦尔帕曾一度对翻译说：这个家伙从一个词结巴到另一个词，从一个错误到下一个错误，简直像个哑巴，他到底想说什么？

Actually when they do talk to Atawalpa, Atawalpa at one point says off the interpreter, what does this fellow mean stammering from one word to another and from one mistake to the next as if he were dumb?

我们怎么知道他确实说了这话？

How do we know he said that?

因为翻译一定

Because the interpreter must

已经翻译了。

have translated.

如果翻译这么没用，我们又怎么能相信他们呢？

So how can we trust the interpreter if they're useless?

我认为，你不太可能编造出关于自己的这种话。

Well, I think it's highly unlikely you'd make that up about yourself.

皇帝说我是无用的翻译。

The emperor is saying that I'm a useless translator.

你不想

You don't want

编造这种事。

to make that up.

但无论如何，这个故事中始终贯穿着一种误解，可能是有意的误导。

But anyway, throughout this story runs this thread of misunderstanding, possibly deliberate misinformation.

在阿兹特克的故事中，听众会记得，梅林切很可能一直在操纵整个事件。

In the Aztec story, listeners will recall that Melinche may well have been manipulating the whole thing.

而我们根本不知道这些翻译、这些年轻人，是否在胡编乱造。

And we just don't know about these interpreters, these boys, whether they were making stuff up or whatsoever.

总之，现在正是他们第一次见到皇帝的时刻。

Anyway, this is now the moment when they first lay eyes on the emperor.

引一位征服者的话说：‘他坐在一张非常低矮的小凳子上，就像土耳其人和摩尔人习惯的那样，浑身散发着无与伦比的威严，周围环绕着他的所有女人和许多酋长。’他们描述他，大概三十岁出头。

To quote one conquistador: 'He was seated on a small stool very low on the ground, as the Turks and Moors are accustomed to sit, with all the majesty in the world, surrounded by all his women and with many chiefs near him.' They describe him, probably in his early thirties.

他留着长长的黑发。

He's got long black hair.

他留长发是因为内战中耳朵受了伤，所以用头发遮盖。

He wears his hair long because he's been injured in the civil war in the ear, and he's covering that up.

哦，如果你耳朵很大，那可真是糟糕，对吧？

Oh, that's bad if you're a big ear, isn't it?

是的，我想是的，正是如此。

Yes, I guess so, exactly.

所以这大概就是他留长发的原因。

So that's probably why he grows his hair.

他披着一件色彩鲜艳的斗篷，额头上戴着一顶王冠，那是一圈用金线编织的红羊毛环，还有一簇红色流苏垂在眼睛上方。

He has a brightly coloured cloak, he's got this thing on his brow which is the crown, this circlet of red wool threaded with gold and this kind of red tassel that hangs above his eyes.

这顶王冠叫做‘马斯凯奇亚’，是萨帕印加的王冠。

This crown is called the 'mascapechia', which is the crown of the sapa Inca.

但他坐在小凳上，一动不动。

But he is sitting on the stool and he doesn't move.

他甚至都不看他们一眼。

He doesn't even look at them.

他们继续靠近。

And they advance closer.

奇怪的是，他们仍然骑在马上。

Strangely, they're still on horseback.

我不太清楚这是怎么发生的，是他走出来了，还是他们进去了，但他们都还骑在马上，因为据说索托的马离阿塔瓦尔帕如此之近，马鼻呼出的气息都吹动了那串流苏。

I don't quite know how this works, whether he's come out or they've gone in, but they're still on their horses because we are told So to's horse was so close to Atahualpa that the breath from its nostrils stirred the tassel.

但阿塔瓦尔帕依然面无表情。

But still, Atahualpa doesn't show a flicker of emotion.

这充分展现了他非凡的勇气，不是吗？

Well, speaks very well of his courage, doesn't it?

确实，因为他们非常害怕马。

Very well, because they are terrified of the horses.

索托从手指上摘下一枚金戒指，递给阿塔瓦尔帕，由翻译转述说：‘我将这枚戒指作为和平与友谊的象征赠予你。’

So to takes a gold ring off his finger and he hands it to Atahualpa and he says that, with the translator speaking, says, I give you this as a token of peace and friendship.

阿塔瓦尔帕伸出手，接过戒指，但仍不直视索托的眼睛，脸上毫无表情。

Atawelpa puts out his hand, he takes the ring, but he still won't meet Soto's eye and he doesn't show a flicker of emotion.

索托随后发表了一篇事先准备好的演讲。

Sotto then gives a prepared speech.

他说：我代表强大的国王，查理国王而来。

He says, I come on behalf of the mighty king, King Charles.

他已任命弗朗西斯科·皮萨罗为这片土地的总督。

He has appointed Francisco Pizarro as governor of these lands.

皮萨罗会非常高兴，若您能前往镇上与他相见。

And Pizarro would be absolutely thrilled if you would come and see him in the town.

阿塔瓦尔帕一言不发，目光依然低垂。

Atualpa says nothing and he still doesn't raise his eyes.

他的其中一位贵族通过翻译说道：萨帕·印加不会随你们离开。

And one of his noblemen speaks up through the interpreter and says, the Sapa Inca is not going to be going anywhere.

今天是他为庆祝战争胜利而进行的最后一天斋戒日，他不会与你们同行。

This is the last day of his ritual fast in celebration of his victory in the war, and he will not be accompanying you.

此时，埃尔南多·皮萨罗彻底失去了耐心，他冲着阿塔瓦尔帕大喊：‘看在上帝的份上，先生，你看看我们！’

Hernando Pizarro at this point completely loses patience and he says, 'For God's sake man, when you look at us!' or whatever, he shouts at Atawalpa.

而此刻，阿塔瓦尔帕第一次抬起了眼睛，直视他们。

And now for the first time, Atawalpa raises his eyes to meet them.

他的双眼燃着怒火。

His eyes are blazing with fury.

那目光毫不妥协。

They are implacable.

如果眼神能同时冰冷与炽烈，那他的眼神正是如此——既炽烈又冰冷。

And they are if they could be cold and blazing, they're both blazing and cold.

他的目光与他们的目光相遇。

And his eyes meet theirs.

终于，他开口了。

And now, at last, he speaks.

你们要就这样给我们留个悬念吗？

Are you leaving us on that cliffhanger?

在

On

那。

that.

是的。

Yeah.

天哪。

Oh my god.

令人难以承受的紧张感。

Unbearable tension.

好吧，我们最好去休息一下，听点广告什么的，当然，除非你是历史俱乐部的会员。

Well, we better go and have a break and listen to some adverts or something, unless, of course, you're a member of the rest of history club.

无论如何，我们会回来了解阿塔瓦尔帕对西班牙人说了什么。

Anyway, we will be back to find out what Ahadawalpa has to say to the Spaniards.

本集由Anthropic的Claude赞助播出。

This episode is brought to you by Claude by Anthropic.

历史存在于矛盾之中。

Now history lives in the contradictions.

是的。

Yeah.

我一直对历史上的重大谜团着迷。

I've always been fascinated by the great mysteries of history.

比如，中美洲的玛雅文明发生了什么？

Like, what happened to the Maya civilization of Central America?

为什么那些伟大的城市都被遗弃了？

Why were all those great cities deserted?

但是，汤姆，有一个谜团一直让你着迷，不是吗？

But, Tom, there's one mystery that's always fascinated you, isn't

对人类如何学会制造和使用火这个问题着迷。

fascinated by the question of how humans came to make and use fire.

火是怎么起源的？

How did that originate?

去年宣布了一项重大发现，表明火的发明地似乎是萨福克。

And a tremendous discovery was announced just last year that the place where it seems fire was invented was Suffolk.

但你知道，让历史如此迷人的一点在于，我们需要在不同资料之间来回比对，以解释这些伟大的谜团。

But, you know, one of the things that makes history so fascinating is the kind of back and forth between sources to try and explain these great mysteries.

你知道什么工具最适合这种思维方式吗？

And you know what's built for that kind of thinking?

Claude 就是为这种思维方式打造的。

Claude is built for that way of thinking.

它不会把问题简单化。

It doesn't smooth things over.

它帮助你深入探究分歧，从而揭示新的见解。

It helps you dig into the disagreement to reveal something new.

而且 Anthropic 已经承诺不在 Claude 中投放广告，因此你的思考始终属于你自己。

And Anthropic just committed to not running adverts in Claude, so your thinking stays yours.

前往 claude.ai/restishistory 免费体验 Claude。

Try Claude for free at claude.ai/restishistory.

大家好，欢迎收听读书俱乐部，这是由Goal Hanger出品、由我多米尼克·桑布鲁克主持的新播客。

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Book Club, a new podcast from Goal Hanger hosted by me, Dominic Sambrook.

还有我，塔比莎·赛雷特。

And me, Tabitha Cyret.

你们中的一些人可能知道，我一直是多米尼克在《历史的余音》中的制片人，去年我们还做了一个关于书籍的迷你系列。

As some of you may know, I've been Dominic's producer on The Rest is History, and we even did a miniseries last year about all things books.

由于我们非常享受那次合作，所以我们决定把它做成一个独立的节目。

And since we enjoyed that so much, we have decided to roll it out as its own show.

所以节目将在每周二更新。

So it'll be coming out every Tuesday.

每次我们会选择一本不同的书，深入探讨它们背后的所有故事。

We'll be doing a different book each time and digging into all the stories behind them.

我们将讨论一些有史以来最伟大、最著名书籍背后的历史背景。

And we are gonna be talking about the historical context behind some of the greatest and most famous books of all time.

我们会挖掘这些作品背后的非凡人物、故事背后出人意料的轶事，同时也会逐步解开每本书的情节，深入探索故事的深层内涵。

We're gonna be digging into the remarkable people behind them, the unexpected stories behind the stories, and also unraveling the plot of each book a bit and delving into the depths of the story.

你不需要读过这些书就能听这个节目，但我们希望在每一集结束时，你能假装自己读过这些书。

Now you don't have to have read the books to listen to the show, but we hope that by the end of each episode, you will be able to pretend to people that you've read them.

这才是关键。

That is the key thing.

无论你有没有读过，我们都希望你能学到许多有趣的事实。

And either way, whether you read them or not, we hope that you'll learn lots of fascinating facts.

你会听到许多精彩的故事，也许还会听到塔比的一些奇怪笑声。

You'll read lots of great stories, and maybe Tabby, the odd laugh.

我们会探讨像《呼啸山庄》和《弗兰肯斯坦》这样惊悚的哥特式爱情小说，也会讨论像《了不起的盖茨比》或《小妇人》这样的经典作品，以及一些更现代的作品。

We will be looking at thrilling gothic bodice rippers like Wuthering Heights and Frankenstein, as well as iconic stories like The Great Gatsby or Little Women, and then also some more modern stuff.

比如《权力的游戏》、《普通人》、《饥饿游戏》、《哈姆内特》，各种令人兴奋的故事。

So Game of Thrones, Normal People, The Hunger Games, Hamnet, all manner of exciting stories.

请在你收听播客的任何平台加入我们，一起探索与书籍有关的一切。

So please join us on our journey into all things books wherever you get your podcasts.

每周二搜索‘Book Club’，希望那时能见到你。

Just search for the book club every Tuesday, and, hopefully, we will see you there.

大家好。

Hello, everyone.

欢迎回到《历史其余部分》。

Welcome back to The Rest is History.

今天是1532年11月15日。

It is the 11/15/1532.

我们正位于卡哈马卡镇外，埃尔南多·德·索托和埃尔南多·皮萨罗正与印加帝国的皇帝阿塔瓦尔帕面对面，这位令人敬畏、令人恐惧的皇帝，他的军队有多少人，多米尼克？

We are outside the town of Cajamarca, and Hernando de So to and Hernando Pizarro are face to face with the emperor of the Incas, the redoubtable, terrifying Atahualpa with his what was it, Dominic?

他那炽热而冰冷的目光？

His blazing and ice cold eyes?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，双方一直对峙紧张，现在阿塔瓦尔帕抬起了那炽热而冰冷的目光，直视着西班牙人。

And so there's been a very tense standoff, and now Atahualpa has raised those blazing and ice cold eyes to meet the eyes of the Spaniards.

他就要开口了，多米尼克，

He's about to speak, and Dominic,

他说了什么？

what does he say?

没什么好话。

Nothing good.

他说：我听到了我的北方部下对你的抱怨。

He says, I've heard complaints about you from my men in the North.

我在圣米格尔的队长写信告诉我，你对待酋长们很恶劣，把他们锁了起来，他还给我寄来了一个铁项圈。

My captain in San Miguel sent to tell me that you've treated the chiefs badly and threw them into chains, and he sent me an iron collar.

他说，你杀了三个基督徒和一匹马。

He says that he killed three Christians and one horse.

现在由埃尔南多·皮萨罗全部发言，而他是个非常不讲外交技巧的人。

And Hernando Pizarro now does all the talking, and he is a very undiplomatic man.

他说：你在圣米格尔的部下都是懦夫。

He says, your men in San Miguel were women.

他们简直和女人一样不堪。

They were no better than women.

一匹马就足以征服整个土地。

One horse was enough to conquer the whole land.

当你们看到我们作战时，就会知道我们是什么样的人。

And when you see us fight, will know what kind of men we are.

阿塔瓦尔帕随后说，这跟你前半部分提到的某件事有关，汤姆。

And Atawalpa then says, and this goes back to something you were saying in the first half, Tom.

他说，我本可以阻止你们前来，但我选择不这么做。

He says, I could have stopped you coming, but I chose not to.

我知道你们是维拉科查的子孙。

I know you are the sons of Viracocha.

你们是我们神王帕查库蒂的使者。

You are messengers from our god king, Pachacuti.

我的父亲胡安纳·卡帕克早已预示过你们的到来，因此我下令，任何人都不得阻拦或伤害你们。

Your coming was foretold by my father, Juana Capac, so I gave orders that nobody was to stop or harm you.

但你觉得这是由一个西班牙人捏造的，他把莫克特苏马对科尔特斯说的话混在一起了，是吗？

But you think this is fabricated by a Spaniard who is muddling it up with what Moctezuma had said to Cortez, do you?

还是你觉得这确实可能是他当时说过的话？

Or do you think this is authentically what he might have said?

我认为对此有多种解释。

I think there are multiple explanations of this.

其中一种解释是，他真的认为他们是来自他们的神王帕查库蒂的使者。

So one of them is he genuinely thinks they're messengers from his the god king, Pachacuti.

我认为这极不可能。

I think this is extremely unlikely.

如果阿塔瓦尔帕真的这么想，他为什么不在之前就直视他们的眼睛呢？

Nothing that Atawalpa does, if he genuinely thought that, would he not have met their eyes earlier?

他难道不会表现得更有礼貌一些吗？

Would he not be a bit more polite?

如果他真的这么想，我当然认为他的行为会完全不同。

I think of course he would have behaved differently if he genuinely thought that.

所以我认为有两种可能性。

So I think there are two possibilities.

一种是这属于文学修辞，如今已变成了一种固定模式。

One is that this is a literary flourish and that this has now become the formula.

当你撰写一部关于西班牙人在美洲征服的编年史时，国王总会用这类话语迎接你，而读者也期待如此。

That when you write a chronicle of a Spanish conquest somewhere in The Americas, the king greets you with these kinds of words and this is what the reader is like.

第二种是，他确实说了类似这样的话，我认为第二种可能性更大。

Number two is, he does say this, this actually I think number two is probably right.

他很可能说了类似这样的话，这只是一种礼节。

He probably does say something a bit like this and it's a courtesy.

我也会这么说，因为对我来说，维罗科查对西班牙人来说意味着什么？

I would have said so too because I mean, who or what is verrococha to the Spaniards?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，他们根本不在乎。

I mean, they don't care.

这可能是经过润色的，或者类似的情况。

It might be embellished or whatever.

我认为这有点像，借用著名历史学家马修·雷斯托尔的话来说，当类似的事情发生在墨西哥时。

I think it's a little bit like, to borrow what the great historian Matthew Restall said about when this happened in Mexico.

他说，这有点像有人来你家时，你说‘随便吧，别拘束，放松享受’。

He said, it's a little bit like, it's an exaggerated version of when someone comes to your house and you say, oh do what you like, know, fete commeche relax and enjoy yourself'.

你其实并不真的这么想。

You don't really mean it.

你并不是真的希望他们为所欲为。

You don't mean do whatever you like.

你只是说些华丽的客套话来让人感到受欢迎，阿塔瓦尔帕就是这样做的。

You say, you know, flowery things to make people feel welcome and this is what Atawalpa is doing.

无论如何，当他这样说时，阿南多调整了语气，说道：‘我的兄弟，总督’，他们总是称弗朗西斯科·皮萨罗为总督。

Anyway, when he does this, Anando moderates his tone And he says, my brother, the governor, they always call Francisco Pizarro the governor.

总督。

Governor.

是的

Yeah.

不是总督非常爱你。

Not the governor loves you dearly.

如果你有任何敌人，我们会派骑兵去为你解决他们。

If you have any enemies, we will send horsemen to deal with them for you.

有十名骑兵，我们就能击败你所有的敌人。

With 10 horsemen, we could defeat all your enemies.

你自己的人只需要追击那些逃跑的人即可。

Your own men will only be needed to mop up the people who run away.

安达诺对阿塔瓦尔帕说了这些话，而阿塔瓦尔帕只是报以冷冷的微笑。

And Anando says this to Atuelpa, and Atuelpa just gives this cold smile.

而亲自写下这段回忆的安达诺回忆道，他微笑的样子，就像根本不把我们放在眼里。

And Ando himself, who wrote a memoir of it, recalls, he smiled as someone who did not think much of us.

当然，阿塔瓦尔帕内心深处可能非常兴奋，因为他可能在想，这些马可是了不起的东西，我完全可以靠它们彻底消灭我弟弟的派系。

Of course, Atawalpa may be very excited by this deep down, because he may be thinking, you know, these horses were a big deal, and I could really finish off my brother's faction with these horses.

当然，不需要西班牙人来骑马

Of course, doesn't need the Spaniards to ride

去劳伦。

them in the lauren.

没错。

Exactly.

阿图阿尔平说：‘你愿意和我共进晚餐吗？’

Atu Alpinau says, will you dine with me?

他们说：‘不，我们必须回去了。’

And they say, no, we have to go back.

他问：‘想喝点饮料吗？’

He says, Would you like drinks?

他让女人给他们端来几罐这种啤酒，这种奇恰酒。

He gets women to bring them jugs of this beer, this chicha.

太阳落山了，阿图尔帕说：‘你们想留宿一晚吗？’

Then the sun is setting and Atuelpa says, Would you like to stay the night?

安安多说：不，我们想回到卡哈马卡镇上的朋友们那里。

And Anando says, No, we'd like to go back to our friends in the town in Cajamarca.

阿图尔帕说：好吧，你们可以住在镇广场周围的兵营里。

And Atuelpa says, Okay, you can stay in these barracks around the town square.

太棒了。

Brilliant.

然后他说：明天见。

Then he says, I'll see you tomorrow.

明天我会去卡鲁马卡见你们的首领。

Tomorrow I'll come into Callumaca to meet your leader.

但在他们离开之前，还有一个小插曲。

But there's one more moment before they leave.

阿图尔帕对马匹显然非常着迷。

Atuelpa clearly fascinated by the horses.

西班牙马术冠军埃尔南多·德索给阿图尔帕做了一次小小的骑术表演。

Hernando de So to, dressage champion of Spain, gives him a little riding demonstration.

他骑着这匹马转了个圈。

He wheels around on this horse.

我们被告知，阿塔瓦尔帕对马如此敏捷地转身感到无比惊讶。

We're told that Atahualpa was amazed and amazed at seeing the agility with which it wheeled.

但普通百姓的钦佩之情更为强烈。

But the common people showed even greater admiration.

周围窃窃私语声不断，显然聚集了一小群人。

There was much whispering, so there's clearly a little crowd.

有一队士兵看到马朝他们奔来时，纷纷后退。

One squadron of troops drew back when they saw the horse coming towards them.

这个故事背后其实有一面黑暗的一面。

There's actually a dark side to this story.

当西班牙人离开后，阿塔瓦尔帕说：‘那些后退的士兵，把他们都抓起来处决吧，因为他们表现出恐惧，我们不能对陌生人的动物流露出恐惧。’

So when the Spanish had gone, Atahualpa says, Those soldiers who drew back, round them all up please and execute them because they showed fear and we can't show fear at the strangers' animals.

一些史料称，他还说：‘找到他们的妻子和孩子，也一并处死。’

Some sources say, said, Find their wives and children and kill them too.

我要确保再也不会有人这样做了，当我们看到西班牙人的马时，绝不能流露出丝毫恐惧。

I want to make sure that nobody does this again and that we don't show the slightest flicker of fear when we see the Spaniards' horses.

所以，让这些懦夫的血脉就此断绝。

So end the bloodline of these cowards.

没错。

Exactly.

你刚才说这话时可是满心愉悦啊，汤姆。

You said that with real relish, Tom.

我都能想象出你当时说这话的样子。

I could see you saying that, actually.

如果我们制作人中有人对马感到害怕。

If one of our producers showed fear of a horse.

我觉得那会是个不错的印加人。

I think that would have been a good Inca.

于是，卡利亚马尔卡的夜晚降临了，但西班牙人却无法入睡。

So, night falls in Calla Marca, but the Spanish can't sleep.

皮萨罗有一个名叫佩德罗的年轻表亲，担任他的侍从。

Pizarro has a young cousin called Pedro who acted as his page.

佩德罗描述了皮萨罗营帐中的一次军事会议。

Pedro described a council of war in Pizarro's quarters.

我们内部就该采取什么行动进行了多次讨论和意见交换。

We took many views and opinions among ourselves about what should be done.

所有人都充满恐惧，因为我们人数太少，且深入敌境，无法获得增援。

All were full of fear, for we were so few and so deep in the land where we could not be reinforced.

当然，让我们提醒自己，他们只有168人，距离援助有数千英里之遥，中间隔着数百万原住民，而他们面对的是驻扎在镇外帐篷里的八万印加士兵。

Of course, let's remind ourselves, there are 168 of them, they are thousands of miles from help, there are several million people between them and the coast, and they are basically up against 80,000 Incas camped in the tents just outside the town.

这真是一个极其艰难的处境。

It's quite a tight corner.

是的。

It's yeah.

敌我悬殊，我认为这样说很合理。

The odds are against them, I think it's reasonable to say.

皮萨罗鼓励他的士兵们说：来吧。

And Pizarro encourages his men and says, come on.

我们能做到。

We've got this.

我们能行。

We can do this.

其中一份编年史记载，他说，那一晚他四处走动，对每个人说：每个人都是骑士。

And he the one of the chronicles says, you know, that night he went around and he said, you know, every man a knight.

每个人都是骑士。

Every man is a knight.

这很像《王国之光》——如果你看过那部关于奥兰多·布鲁姆主演的十字军东征电影，片尾他在保卫城市时为所有人授勋。

Very like the Kingdom of Heaven, if you've seen that film, the Orlando Bloom Crusades film, where at the end he knights everybody in the defense of this city.

尽管他这么说，但他们一定在想：天啊，这会很难。

Even though he's saying all this, they must be thinking, Jesus, this is going to be tough.

所以问题是，当黎明来临，阿塔瓦尔帕出现时，他们会怎么做？

So the question is, what will they do when morning comes, when Atahualpa turns up?

后来一些西班牙编年史家表示，皮萨罗希望阿塔瓦尔帕会臣服，同意承认查理五世为最高领主、耶稣为万物之主。

Now some Spanish chroniclers said later, Pizarro is hoping that Atahualpa will submit, will agree to accept Charles the Fifth as this overlord and Jesus as the master of all.

我认为皮萨罗根本不可能真觉得这种情况会发生。

I think this is highly unlikely that Pizarro thought that would actually happen.

如果他真这么想，那他就是疯了。

He'd be mad if he thought that would happen.

我认为他从一开始就打算使用某种形式的暴力。

I think he was always going to use some form of violence.

他知道他的表兄科尔特斯在墨西哥做过什么，正如马修·雷斯托尔在其关于西班牙征服美洲的优秀著作中所说，标准做法是戏剧性的恐怖手段。

He knew what his cousin Cortez had done in Mexico and as Matthew Restall says in his excellent books about the Spanish conquest of the Americas, standard practice was theatrical terror.

你先发制人，利用出其不意，运用你的军事技术——比如马匹、剑等。

You strike first, you use surprise, you use your military technology, which is your horses, your swords and so on.

还有你的火枪。

And your guns.

是的，还有你的火枪。

Yeah, and your guns.

而且你希望这一点能奏效。

And you hope that that will prevail.

你可以通过恐吓让人屈服。

You can frighten people into acquiescing.

所以皮萨罗对他的手下说了这些话。

So this is what Pizarro says to his men.

他说：看吧，我们要利用地形。

He says, look, we are going to take advantage of the geography.

当阿塔瓦尔帕和他的手下到来时，我们会让他们进入主广场。

When Atahualpa and his men arrive, we will allow them to filter into the main square.

而你正确地指出，汤姆，广场中央有一个平台。

Whereas you rightly said Tom, there is a platform in the middle.

阿塔瓦尔帕很可能会走上那个平台之类的，我们拭目以待。

And Atahualpa will probably go up onto the platform or something like that, we will see.

与此同时，我们会在位于广场三面的兵营里。

Meanwhile, we will be in the barracks, which are on three sides of the square.

所有人都会等待我的信号，从门后冲出来。

Everyone will wait for my signal to burst out of the doorways.

在两侧，我们会部署大部分马匹，由索托和我弟弟埃尔南多以及另一位大耶稣指挥。

On two sides we'll have most of the horses, under So to and my brother Hernando and the other big Jesus.

他们负责对付印加军队。

They can deal with the Inca troops.

在第三侧，我会带着一小群人，我们的任务是俘虏阿塔瓦尔帕。

On the third side I'll be there with a smaller group of people and our job is to snatch Atawelpa.

至于其他士兵，人数并不多，你们就藏在广场周围的巷子里。

As for the rest of the men, we're not talking about huge numbers, you hide in the alleys around the square.

一旦战斗开始，设法封锁广场，这样印加人就无法逃脱，只能任由我们的骑兵宰割。

When the fighting starts, try to seal off the square and that will mean that the Incas can't escape and they'll be at the mercy of our cavalry.

至于信号，当阿塔瓦尔帕在广场中央就位后，来自克里特岛的炮兵佩德罗·德·坎迪亚可以开炮，同时吹响号角。

As for the signal, when Atahualpa has taken his place in the center of the square, Pedro de Candia, the guy from Crete, the artilleryman, he can fire his guns, blow a load of trumpets.

当你们听到这个信号，行动就开始了，我们就这样干。

And when you hear that, it's game on and we'll do this.

佩德罗·德·坎迪亚

And Pedro de Candia

就在这座高台上，

is on this raised platform,

对吧？

isn't he?

是的，他在。

Yes, is.

他在高台上。

He's on the platform.

所以，相对而言，占据了制高点。

So kind of relatively speaking, commanding heights.

完全正确。

Exactly right.

现在，回忆录作者米格尔·德·埃斯泰特描述了会议结束后、夜幕降临之际的气氛。

Now Miguel de Estete, who's one of the memoirists, described the mood after the meeting broke up and darkness drew him.

很少有人睡觉，我们一直盯着广场，那里可以看见印加军队的营火。

Few slept, and we kept watching the square from which the campfires of the Indian Army could be seen.

那是一幅可怕的景象。

It was a terrible sight.

他们中的大多数人分布在山坡上，彼此靠得很近。

Most of them were on a hillside and close to one another.

看起来就像一片繁星点点的夜空。

It looked like a brilliantly star studded sky.

他们凝视着这些营火和帐篷，西班牙人完全被吓坏了。

They're looking out at these campfires, these tents, they're absolutely the Spanish, they're absolutely terrified.

时间一分一秒地过去，他们几乎没有睡着。

So the hours pass, they don't get much sleep.

黎明降临，1532年11月16日。

Dawn breaks, 11/16/1532.

阿塔瓦尔帕的斋戒仪式结束了。

Atahualpa's ritual fast is over.

他和他最亲近的朋友一直在喝酒，以庆祝禁食结束。

He and his closest friends have been drinking to mark the end of the fast.

他其实并不着急去任何地方，可能有点宿醉。

He's in no hurry to go anywhere actually, probably got a bit of a hangover.

所以整个上午，西班牙人都在等待。

So all morning the Spanish wait.

他们的多明我会教士已经举行了弥撒，一切准备就绪，紧张气氛持续升级。

Their Dominicans have held mass, everything is ready, the tension mounting all the time.

上午稍晚，一名信使抵达阿塔瓦尔帕的营地，他说：阿塔瓦尔帕马上就要来了，他会带着他的士兵，而且士兵们会携带武器。

A messenger arrives mid morning at Atualpa's camp and he says, Atualpa's still coming, he's coming with his men and his men will be armed.

皮萨罗说：很好，你想怎么来就怎么来。

Pizarro says, Fine, you can come however he likes.

我会以朋友和兄弟的身份欢迎他。

I will welcome him as a friend and a brother.

这很好。

That's nice.

又一个小时过去了，没人来。

Another hour goes by, no one comes.

然后又来了一名信使，他说，实际上，他们改变主意了。

Then another messenger arrives, and he says, actually, they've changed their mind.

他们要把武器留在后面。

They're gonna leave their weapons behind.

你觉得这是为什么？

And why is that, do you think?

我真的不知道。

I genuinely don't know.

我认为阿塔瓦尔帕从未真正想过自己需要武器。

I think it never really occurs to Atawelpa that he'd need the weapons.

他有那么多手下。

He's got so many men.

是的，我想是这样。

Yeah, I suppose.

这么多人。

So many men.

然后西班牙人要是攻击他，那简直是疯了。

And then the Spanish would be mad to attack him.

168个人对抗8万人？

A 168 men against 80,000?

我的意思是，你绝不会这么干。

I mean, you'd never do that.

但他们还是没来。

Still they don't come though.

中午时分，阿塔瓦尔帕的营地有了动静，西班牙哨兵说整个平原上都是人。

At midday there's movement in Atuelpa's camp and the Spanish lookouts say the entire plane is full of men.

皮萨罗的手下都已经在营房里就位，躲藏起来了。

Pizarro's men have all taken their places in the barracks and hiding and whatnot.

你可以想象他们现在有多紧张。

And you can imagine how nervous they are now.

佩德罗·皮萨罗说，我看到许多西班牙人因极度恐惧而无意中尿了出来。

Pedro Pizarro said, I saw many Spaniards urinate without noticing it out of pure terror.

于是，印加人开始向城镇前进。

So the Incas start to advance towards the town.

我引用原文：他们头上都戴着巨大的金制和银制圆盘，宛如王冠。

And I quote, They all wore large gold and silver disks like crowns on their heads.

他们显然都穿着仪式服装，衣饰呈棋盘状的格子图案。

They were apparently all coming in their ceremonial clothes with a livery of checkered colors like a chessboard.

当他们行进时，印加人做出一种扫地般的动作，仿佛在清除地上的杂物。

And as they march, the Incas are kind of doing this motion to sweep the ground as if clearing rubbish off the ground or something.

他们唱着一首歌，西班牙人听不懂，但其中一人说，对我们这些听到的人来说，这首歌绝非缺乏优雅。

And they're singing a song, which the Spanish don't understand, but one of them said, it was by no means lacking grace for those of us who heard it.

在离城镇半英里外，印加人停了下来，皮萨罗难以置信。

Half a mile outside the town, the Incas stop, and Pizarro can't believe it.

他派出了翻译。

He sends out an interpreter.

你们为什么停下了？

Why have you stopped?

阿托阿尔帕的手下说：我们被命令原地停下。

And Atoalpa's men say, well, we've been told to halt.

现在是下午中期，皇帝决定要在城外过夜，明天再进城。

It's mid afternoon now, and the emperor has decided he'd like to spend the night outside the city and come in tomorrow.

皮萨罗对此感到震惊。

Pizarro is horrified by that.

他不希望印加人就在城外过夜，因为西班牙人最害怕的就是夜间袭击。

He doesn't want the Incas right outside the town overnight because the one thing the Spanish are dreading is a night attack.

他又派了一名西班牙人去恳求阿塔瓦尔帕，请他在天黑前前来拜访我们。

He sends another Spaniard to go and implore Atahualpa, please come and visit us before nightfall.

我们不会伤害你，不会伤害你，你可以放心前来。

We won't harm you, we won't hurt you, you can come without fear.

说这句话有点奇怪，阿塔瓦尔帕为什么会害怕呢？

As a slightly weird thing to say, why would Atahualpa be frightened?

他没有任何理由害怕。

There's no reason for him to be afraid.

西班牙人这样做反而暴露了自己，想想看。

The Spanish are rather giving themselves away there, think.

是的，他们确实如此。

They are, aren't they?

对。

Yeah.

这暴露了他们内心的真实想法。

It's betraying their secret thoughts.

没错，正是如此。

It is, exactly it is.

无论如何，太阳开始西沉，阿塔瓦尔帕终于行动了。

Anyway, the sun is beginning to sink and at last Atahualpa moves.

他现在带着大约六千人前进，把大部分军队留在城外。

He advances now with about 6,000 men leaving most of his army outside the town.

他的部下如约将沉重的武器留在了外面。

His men, as they promised, have left their heavier weapons behind.

他们只带着投石索、石头和小斧头，也许是近乎仪式用的斧头。

They've got slings, they've got stones and they've got little axes, maybe ceremonial axes almost.

他们穿过大门，沿着街道前行，终于进入了中央广场。

They come through the gate, they come along the street, at last they enter the central square.

先锋部队随后是皇帝的随行队伍，许多人戴着巨大的羽毛头饰，还有阿塔瓦尔帕本人。

The vanguard, then the emperor's party, many of them wearing these big feathered headdresses and stuff, and Atawalpa himself.

他坐着，引述原文，‘一张非常精美的轿子，内衬五彩羽毛，并装饰着金板和银板。’

He is sitting, and I quote, on a very fine litter, lined with feathers of many colors and embellished with plates of gold and silver.

80位贵族用肩膀抬着他，全都穿着华丽的蓝色制服。

80 lords carried him on their shoulders, all wearing a very rich blue livery.

他坐在轿子上，一张小凳子上铺着华贵的鞍垫，身着盛装，头戴王冠，颈上围着一串巨大的祖母绿项链。

He was seated on the litter, on a small stool with a rich saddle cushion, very richly dressed with his crown on his head and a collar of large emeralds around his neck.

很像蒙特苏马在堤道上被抬出来迎接昂纳和科尔特斯的情景。

Very like Montezuma on the causeway being brought out to meet Anne and Cortez.

我的意思是，这两个故事之间的相似之处真是惊人。

I mean, is amazing how many parallels between

确实有很多相似之处。

those two stories there are.

是啊，不是吗？

It is, isn't it?

我完全同意。

I agree completely.

你不禁会想，这件事真的发生过吗？还是两个叙述相互交融了？

You do wonder, did it actually happen or are the two accounts bleeding into one another?

他们并不是在编造，但确实如此。

And they're not making it up but Yeah.

我认为这两个叙述确实有一定程度的相互交融。

I think the two accounts do bleed into each other a bit.

事实上，我认为这正是我们难以辨别真相的原因。

Actually, I think that's what makes it quite hard to discern the truth.