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欢迎来到‘余下皆为历史’，这个说法并非偶然源自希腊，或至少部分源自希腊。
Welcome to the rest is history, which comes not inappropriately from Greece or at least partly from Greece.
历史学家希罗多特讲述了温泉关战役的故事，斯巴达人在那里英勇抵抗波斯国王薛西斯。
The historian Herodotus tells the story of the battle of Thermopylae when the Spartans made their heroic stand against the Persian king Xerxes.
之后，当波斯人彻底击败了斯巴达人时，他们问一群希腊叛徒，为什么战场上希腊人如此之少。
And afterwards, when the Persians had wiped the floor with the Spartans, they asked a group of Greek deserters why there were so few Greeks at the battlefield.
这些叛徒据说回答说，其他希腊人都去参加奥林匹克运动会，观看赛马了。
And the deserters supposedly replied that the rest of the Greeks were off at the Olympic games watching the horse racing.
波斯人问，他们的奖品是什么？
The Persians asked what was their prize?
这有什么意义？
What was the point?
希腊人说，奖品是一顶橄榄叶编织的花冠。
And the Greek said the prize was a crown of olive leaves.
听到这里，波斯人据说惊呼、咬牙切齿、撕裂衣袍，问道：我们对抗的究竟是怎样一群男人？
And at that, the Persians supposedly cried out and gnashed their teeth and rent their garments and said, what kind of men are these that we're fighting against?
他们战斗不是为了财富，而是为了荣耀。
They fight not for riches, but for glory.
另一个只为荣耀而战的人是我的合作者汤姆·霍兰德，他可是《希罗多德历史》的译者。
Now another person who fights only for glory is my collaborator, Tom Holland, the translator of Herodotus' Histories, no less.
汤姆，你非常热衷于奥运会，对吧？
Tom, you're very keen on the Olympics, aren't you?
我猜你急切地想看东京奥运会的开幕。
I imagine you're dying to see the kickoff in Tokyo.
你等不及了。
You can't wait.
其实我对古代奥运会更感兴趣。
Well, I'm breaking on the Ancient Olympics.
我反而觉得现代奥运会。
I I actually find the modern ones.
它们太糟糕了。
They're rubbish.
说实话。
To be
是的。
honest.
是的。
Yeah.
你对花样游泳、举重或者其他什么项目都不感兴趣。
You the the synchronized swimming doesn't do it for you or the power lifting or whatever it is.
但古代奥运会太棒了，我特别嫉妒你现在正在希腊录制节目。
But the Ancient ones are are fantastic, and I'm incredibly jealous of you being in Greece right now as we record it.
对。
Yes.
而且非常感谢你暂时放下在埃克塞特畅饮红酒的享受。
And very grateful that you have broken off from downing Retina in the Exactly.
尼凯涅的幽灵，纳夫隆的酒肉之乐。
The shade of Nycenae, flesh pots of Nafleon.
在伯罗奔尼撒的享乐之地。
In the in the flesh pots of the Peloponnese.
是的。
Yes.
所以我实际上做的就是，没错，我中断了假期，来听你讲古代宗教。
So what I've actually done is, exactly, I broke off my holiday to be lectured by you about ancient religion.
当我的妻子带儿子去吃冰淇淋时，我对她说，接下来的一个小时，汤姆·霍兰德会一遍又一遍地使用‘神圣’这个词。
And I said to my wife, as she went off taking my son for an ice cream, I said, basically, for the next hour, Tom Holland will be just using the word sacral again and again and again.
我知道接下来会发生什么。
I know exactly what's coming.
你太了解我了。
You know me you know me too well.
在我们继续讨论古奥运会的神圣性之前，我是不是该重点讲这个？
Have you before we get on to the sacral quality of the Ancient Olympic Games, am I wow.
我会重点讲这个吗？
Am I going to major on that?
你其实还没去过奥林匹亚，对吧？
Have you you you haven't actually been to Olympia, though, this
没有。
No.
虽然我从来没去过。
Although although I've never been.
不过昨天我们去了纳乌普利亚，哦，是的。
Although yesterday, we went to Namia Oh, yeah.
那是另一个赛事举办地。
Which is another games location.
那里有一个很棒的隧道。
And so there's a brilliant tunnel.
他们好像重建了运动员使用的隧道。
They've they've sort of reconstructed, I think, the tunnel that the athletes.
那种感觉很像，你知道的，踏上世界杯决赛的球场一样。
It's very like, you know, stepping onto the the the the field for the World Cup final or something.
你穿过隧道，然后进入体育场。
You go through the tunnel and you emerge into the stadium.
而且，是的，你能感受到那种氛围。
And and, yeah, you get it.
你能很好地体会到当时的情景。
You get a fantastic sense of of what it was like.
我的意思是，我知道这么说有点傻，因为你其实并不知道当时是什么感觉，但你至少可以假装一下。
I mean, in this sort I know that's a silly thing to say because you don't really know what it was like, but you can sort of pretend anyway.
我在我手机上播放了《最终 Countdown》。
We played I played the final countdown on my phone.
所以我感谢上帝。
So I thank God.
我让儿子跑过了隧道。
I got my son to run through the tunnel.
当然，因为疫情，这里一个人也没有。
Of course, there's nobody else here because of COVID.
所以这太棒了。
So it's brilliant.
所有的一切都属于你。
You get it all to yourself.
而且你赢了。
And you win
你赢得了桂冠。
the you win the crown.
没错。
Exactly.
月桂冠，橄榄枝花环。
The laurel the olive wreath.
你提到过尼米亚运动会。
So you mentioned the Nemean games.
是的，一共有四个。
Yeah, there were four ones.
嗯，
Well,
有很多比赛，但有四场比赛，正如你从希罗多德那里读到的故事那样，获胜者会获得一个花冠。
there are lots of games, but there are four games where basically, as in the story that you read from Herodotus, you get a crown.
所以它们被称为斯蒂凡尼克比赛。
So they're called the the Stefanic game.
斯蒂凡诺斯。
Stefanos.
对。
Right.
‘斯蒂凡诺斯’在希腊语中是花冠的意思。
It's a Greek for a crown.
所以尼米亚运动会基本上排在第四位。
So the Nemean games was basically ranked fourth.
哦，你来说吧。
Oh, you tell
我去了，但我连颁奖台都没上。
me I've been to the I didn't even I didn't even get on the podium.
是的。
Yeah.
连颁奖台都没上。
Didn't even podium.
克罗科迪门运动会，连铜牌都没拿到。
The Crocodilemean games and not even the bronze medal of games.
太让人失望了。
That's so disappointing.
天哪。
Oh my god.
地峡运动会是铜牌赛事。
The Isthmian is the bronze one.
所以那是科林斯的。
So that's a Corinth.
海洋连接了伯罗奔尼撒半岛与希腊大陆的南部分支。
The oceans joining the Peloponnese, the southern kind of fork of Greece to the mainland.
然后是位于德尔斐的皮提安运动会，以及奥林匹克运动会。
Then the Pythian, which is at Delphi and then the Olympian.
保萨尼阿斯是公元二世纪的人，他主要撰写旅行指南。
And Pausanias who is second century AD basically he kind of writes travel guides.
他写了一本关于希腊的旅行指南。
He writes a travel guide to Greece.
是《孤独星球》吗？
The rough guide?
《孤独星球》上说，奥林匹克运动会是最伟大的。
The rough guide and he says of the Olympic games, they are the greatest.
最伟大的运动会。
The greatest of games.
因此现代奥运会以它们命名，因为它们是巅峰之作。
And so that's why the modern games are named after them because they are the pinnacle.
你并不是说帕萨尼阿斯发明了奥运会是最棒的这种观点吧？
What did Pausanias you're not claiming that he invented the idea that the Olympic Games were the best.
我的意思是，它们真的就是最棒的吗？
Mean, were they genuinely the best?
不是。
No.
他说它们排名第一。
He said that they rank first.
它们位居榜首。
They come top.
如果你在奥运会上获胜，那绝对是顶尖的。
If you if you win at the Olympic Games, then that's absolutely the best.
不过，真正顶尖运动员的标志——你知道我多么重视精英体育——是赢得全满贯。
Although the mark of a really elite athlete and you know how keen I am on on elite sport is to get the grand slam.
就像现在的网球一样。
A bit like kind of tennis now.
你知道
Know you
而这当然就是尼禄所做的，对吧？
get And this is of course what Nero did right?
嗯，我相信我们会
Well I'm sure we'll
这就是尼禄所做的。
That come to this is what Nero did.
但我知道你多么期待我用‘神圣’这个词。
But, and I know how much you've been looking forward to me using the word sacral.
好吧，来吧，赶紧说完。
Yes, come on, let's get it over with.
所以关键在于，现代奥运会本质上是以金钱为中心的。
Okay so the key, really the fundamental difference between the modern Olympic games which as constituted now is basically about money.
我的意思是，它们在新冠疫情时期仍能举办，并不是因为奥林匹克精神，也不是因为国家间的友谊，而是因为电视转播合同。
I mean the reason that they're going ahead in a time of COVID, it's not because of the Olympic spirit, it's not because of the amity of nations, because of TV deals.
是的。
Yeah.
好吧，我们将在另一个播客中讨论现代奥运会，那时我们可以全面探讨其中的丑闻和政治，但不过——
Well we're going to do the modern Olympics, aren't we, in another podcast so we can do all the sleaze and the politics But of
你提到过温泉关的那次事件，当时波斯人正在入侵希腊。
episode you mentioned with Thermopylae, the Persians are invading Greece.
你觉得这是一场巨大的危机。
You think this is a massive crisis.
在温泉关坚守隘口，是希腊人阻止波斯军队推进的最佳选择。
Holding the pass at Thermopylae is the best option the Greeks have to stop the Persian advance.
但他们并没有因此推迟比赛，这并不是因为他们痴迷于体育，而是因为奥林匹克运动会具有神圣不可侵犯的地位，是献给众神的。
But they don't go because of the games and that's not because they're obsessed by sports or they are, it's because the Olympic games have this incredible status as something that is holy to the gods.
所以，同样地，波西多尼乌斯前往奥林匹亚时曾说，希腊最神圣的两大事件中，其一就是奥林匹克运动会。
And so again Porciniath, when he goes to Olympia and he says about the games that there are basically the two holiest events in Greece.
另一个是位于雅典城外的厄琉西斯秘仪，它与得墨忒耳和珀耳塞福涅的故事有关——珀耳塞福涅进入冥界，六个月后重返人间，然后再返回。
One is the mysteries at Eleusis which is just outside Athens where it's involved with the story of Demeter and Persephone and Persephone going into the underworld and then coming back for six months and going back.
这一切基本上关乎生死，因此完全触及了凡人可能想了解的一切核心。
And it's all basically about life and death so it's absolutely at the heart of everything that a mortal might want to learn.
但他认为，奥运会这一节日也处于同等重要的层次。
But he says that the Olympics, the Olympic Games are the festival of the Olympics are on that level.
实际上，当我把‘奥运会’作为节日的同义词时，这是错误的，因为运动会只是更广泛节日的一部分。
And actually when I say Olympic Games as a synonym for festival that's wrong because the games are only a part of the broader festival.
让我们回到起源。
Let's go back to the origins.
那么，它们的传统日期是七月，对吧？
So when did they their conventional date is July isn't it?
这个说法来自亚里士多德，对吗？
And we get that from Aristotle, am I right?
他说过是在七月吗？
That he says it was July?
是的。
Yes.
我们还从一个叫希庇亚斯的人那里得知这一点。
We get it also from a guy called Hippias of Elis.
伊利斯是那个在历史上逐渐垄断并宣称拥有奥运会和节日的城镇。
And Elis is the kind of the town that over the course of history comes to kind of monopolise and lay claim to the games and the festival.
如果你赢得了短跑比赛——这是第一项赛事，据说是名叫科罗伊布斯的屠夫赢了——那么从那时起，赢得短跑的人的名字就成了希腊人纪年的依据。
And essentially if you win the sprint which is the first race and it's won by this butcher supposedly called Coroibus, then from that point on your name as the guy who wins the sprint, You you knew this is how the Greeks date.
这就是他们所使用的纪年系统。
This is this is the dating system that they use.
所以，这有多精英呢？
So it's kind of I mean, how elite is that?
你赢得了一场短跑，你的名字就会被后人永远用于编写历史和其他类似的事情。
You win a sprint and then your name, you know, it's going to be used forever after by people drawing up histories and Well, things like
为了插一句，我们前几天去了斯巴达，现代的斯巴达——正如我儿子所说，它并没有完全符合他对古斯巴达的想象。
just to just to interject on this, we were in Sparta the other day in in this in modern Sparta, which is as my son said, is not it it doesn't quite live up to his image of ancient Sparta.
但在现代斯巴达的中心，有一座奥林匹克纪念碑，上面刻有自公元前八世纪以来每一位赢得奥运会的斯巴达人名字，一直延续到二十一世纪初。
But in the middle of ancient of modern Sparta, there is a monument, an Olympic monument, and it has the names of every Spartan who who won the Olympics going back to, you know, the eighth century BC or whatever it is and coming right up to the early twenty first century.
我觉得他们基本上是在假装根本没有中断过。
And I thought I mean, they they basically pretending there's no break.
他们假装奥林匹克运动会是一回事，而且斯巴达也是如此。
They're pretending that the Olympic games are the same thing and that Sparta.
所以我特别喜欢这一点，他们仍然在纪念这些两千五百年前的人，仍然为他们的斯巴达奥运英雄立下这样的纪念碑。
So I I I loved that, that that was a sort of that they're still remembering these guys, you know, two thousand five hundred years ago, and they still got this sort of monument to their their Spartan Olympic heroes.
所以他们的名字真的能永垂不朽吗？
So their names do live forevermore?
是的，绝对如此。
Well yes, absolutely.
希腊竞争者们都知道，你所赢得的名声在某种意义上正是关键所在。
And so Greek contenders knew that I mean the fame that you win is in a sense the kind of the key to it.
但你可能不会惊讶地发现，事情并没有那么简单。
But it won't surprise you to know that there are complications.
其中一个问题是，这真的属实吗？
So one of them is you know is this true?
而且实际上，主流观点可能认为它大致如此。
And actually the kind of the weight of opinion is probably that it vaguely is.
Whether the butcher did win and all that sort of stuff.
Whether the butcher did win and all that sort of stuff.
是的，也许谁知道呢？
Yeah, perhaps who knows?
我的意思是，我们真的没有办法确定。
I mean, we've got no way really of knowing.
但看起来这是可行的。
But it seems it seems feasible.
但这种你所谓的，我们可以认识到这是一段历史记载。
But this kind of you know, we can recognize that that's a historical account.
但对于希腊人来说，我恐怕得用‘神圣性’这个词来形容这项赛事。
But for the Greek, I'm afraid I'm gonna use the word the sacral quality of the game.
对。
Yeah.
很高兴你这么做了，汤姆。
So glad you did that, Tom.
我的意思是，如果你没这么做，那会让人失望。
I mean, it would be disappointing if you didn't.
它与神话交织在一起。
It's interwoven with myth.
好的。
Okay.
所以对于希腊人来说，你基本上可以同时在脑海中保留三四个想法。
So you can basically with the Greeks, you can hold, you know, kind of three or four ideas simultaneously in your head.
所以你可以认为有一个可识别的起点，你站在起跑线上，发令枪一响，比赛就开始了。
So you can have this idea that there is a kind of recognizable starting point that you get on the blocks you know firing gun goes and you're off the games have begun.
但与此同时，你也必须将它与关于神和英雄的故事联系起来。
But at the same time you also have to kind of enmesh it in your ideas about the stories told of the gods and the heroes.
而正如希腊一贯如此，没有一个确定的版本。
And as is always the way with Greece, there is no definitive account.
所以奥运会是在奥林匹亚举行的。
So it's held at Olympia.
奥林匹亚显然与奥林匹斯山有联系，那是众神的居所，宙斯作为众神之王统治于此。
Olympia obviously there's the resonance with Olympus, home of the gods, where Zeus, the king of the gods, rules.
它是以宙斯命名的
And it's Zeus Is
汤姆，它是以奥林匹斯命名的吗？
it named after Olympus, Tom?
它是以奥林匹斯山命名的吗？
Is it named after Mount Olympus, the placeholder?
嗯，它是以奥林匹亚的宙斯命名的。
Well, it's named after Olympian Zeus.
因此，宙斯主宰着这些赛事。
So Zeus presides over the games.
因此，关于奥运会起源的一个说法是，再次回到保萨尼阿斯，他确实是这一问题的关键史料来源。
And so therefore, one of the stories that's told about the origins of the games and again going back to Pausanias who really is that kind of you know the crucial source for this.
他说，有些人认为宙斯曾在奥林匹亚与克洛诺斯本人角力，争夺天界的王座。
He says some say Zeus wrestled there at Olympia with Cronos himself for the throne of heaven.
有些人说，他举办这些比赛是为了庆祝自己的胜利。
Some say he held the games as a celebration of his triumph.
克洛诺斯是宙斯的父亲，据说他曾预言自己会被孩子推翻，于是每当孩子出生就将他们吞下；但宙斯的母亲骗了他，给了他一块用襁褓包着的石头。
Cronos was his Zeus's father who swallowed who, you know, there was a prediction that he would be toppled by his child and so he devours his children as they're born and he gets tricked because Zeus' mother gives him a stone wrapped in swaddling clothes.
宙斯因此得以存活，长大后击败了克洛诺斯。
And Zeus is then able to live and comes and defeats him.
所以，这几乎将奥运会的起源直接与奥林匹斯神族的掌权、奥林匹斯时代的开启联系在了一起。
So that is kind of pinning the origins of the Olympics right to the beginning of the reign of the Olympians, the coming of the Olympians.
这就是它所承载的重大意义。
So that's the kind of measure of significance.
但是，汤姆，我读过这个故事。
But, Tom, I read this story.
我今天才读到关于佩洛普斯的传说。
I read it only today that Pelops
是的。
Yes.
他是坦塔罗斯的儿子，一个曾幸存于被众神吃掉的人——他的父亲曾把他作为食物端给众神，这种事我们大多数人可没法吹嘘。
The son of Tantalus, a man who had survived being eaten by the gods, being served to the gods as food by his own father, which which is not a claim many of us can make.
但他确实活了下来，还讲出了这个故事：他曾与未来的岳父进行一场赛车比赛，在比赛中，他把岳父马车的车轴销和车轮换成了蜡制的。
But he had he had done this and lived to tell the tale, that he had a chariot race with his prospective father-in-law, in which he replaced the linchpins and the wheels of this father in law's chariot with wax.
结果蜡融化了，岳父因此丧命。
So that they melted and he died.
随后，他举办了葬礼竞技会来纪念这位岳父，这便是奥运会的起源。
And he then held funeral games to remember his his sort of father-in-law, which became the Olympics.
这不就是运动会的起源吗？
Is that not the origin of the games?
那是另一个故事。
So that's that's another story.
对，而且这个版本实际上更受欢迎。
Yeah and that's the one that actually kind of wins.
假设你能同时记住所有这些不同的想法，那么辨明这些传说与宙斯的关联就很重要。
Say you can keep all these different ideas in your head so it matters to identify the origins with Zeus.
但没错，绝对如此，佩洛普斯——你如今所坐之地的伯罗奔尼撒半岛就是以他的名字命名的。
But yes absolutely, Pelops who gives his name to the Peloponnese where you are sitting now.
是的。
Yeah.
实际上，这还与琉善秘仪有关，因为唯一吃了一点佩洛普斯的神是得墨忒耳，她正为被哈迪斯绑架的珀耳塞福涅而哀悼。
And actually there's a link to the Lucian mysteries there as well because the one god who eats a bit of Pelops is Domita because she's in mourning for Persephone who's just been abducted by Hades, the king of the underworld.
从那时起，众神开始重新拼合，将他复活。
And so from that point on, the gods kind of reconstituting, bringing back to life.
从那时起，他用象牙做了一只肩膀，来替代得墨忒耳咬掉的那部分。
From that point on, he has an ivory shoulder to replace the bit that Demeter had snapped.
真棒。
Nice.
是的。
Yeah.
所以他来自安纳托利亚。
So he's from Anatolia.
他横渡爱琴海。
He crosses Aegean.
他来到后来被称为伯罗奔尼撒的地方，即佩洛普斯岛。
He comes to what will come to be called the Peloponnese, the island of Pelops.
他前往一个叫皮萨的地方，那不是现在举办奥运会的奥林匹亚遗址，而是在其约一英里外的一座塔。
And he goes to a place called Pisa which isn't place of It's the tower in about a mile from where the games, where Olympia will be.
确实如此，那里有一位名叫俄诺玛俄斯的国王，他有一个女儿，希波达弥亚。
And absolutely yes, so there's a guy called Oinomaus who's the king there and he has a daughter, Hippodamia.
就像克洛诺斯被告知会被自己的儿子杀死一样，俄诺玛俄斯也被告知，他会被娶走自己女儿的男人杀死，因此他并不希望发生这种事。
And a bit like Cronos having been told that he will be killed by a son, Onomatous
有
has
于是，每一位求婚者都被他挑战参加一场战车比赛，条件是：如果求婚者输掉比赛，就会被处死。
been told that he will be killed by the man who marries his daughter and so he's not keen on this and so every suitor he challenges a suitor to a chariot race with the proviso that if the guy who wins the chariot race loses, he be killed.
于是佩洛普斯抵达了，人们在岳父宫殿上方的皮萨迎接他，那里挂着一排排腐烂的头颅，肉块正不断滴落。
And so Pelops arrives and they're welcoming him to Pisa above the palace of his prospective father-in-law, a kind of, you know, rack of skulls of the decaying heads, the flesh dripping off.
我们很多人都对与自己岳父见面时的这种场景非常熟悉。
A lot of us are very familiar with those kinds of scenes with our own fathers in law.
是的。
Yes.
所以他显然很紧张，但他有优势，因为他拥有众神赐予的飞马。
So he obviously is twitchy but he's got advantages because he's winged steeds that are a gift from the gods.
因此这是一个优势，但他想确保万无一失，于是贿赂了岳父的御者——一个叫密提罗斯的人，正如你所说，用蜡代替了车轴上的轮辐固定装置，结果岳父因此丧命，佩洛普斯娶了女儿，成为一位伟大的英雄。
So that's a kind of advantage but he wants to make absolutely sure and so he bribes his father, prospective father in law's charioteer, a guy called Mytilos to exactly as you say replace the spokes with the axle thing to keep the wheels in with wax and so the father dies, Pelops marries and he's a great hero.
但他确实贿赂了密提罗斯。
But he has bribed Mytilis.
他当时说，我会给你各种各样的好处。
He's he's he's said you know, I'll give you all kinds of goodies.
后来密提罗斯来找佩洛普斯讨要报酬。
And Mytilis comes to Pelops for his reward.
你读过关于佩洛普斯做了什么的内容吗？
And did did you read what Pelops does?
他杀了人吗？
Does he kill
杀了他？
him?
是的，他杀了。
He does.
把他扔下
Chucks him
悬崖。
over a cliff.
这未免太狠了吧？
Well, that's harsh, isn't it?
这太不地道了。
That's bad form.
这真是非常不妥。
It's very bad form.
所以佩洛普斯啊，你知道的，他可不是个好人。
So so Pelops is you know, he's not a nice guy.
是的。
No.
我现在对自己身在紫东区感到很不安。
I'm feeling bad about being in the Purple East now.
也许吧。
Well, maybe.
所以佩洛普斯统治着一切，一切看起来都很好，但他的家族却被下了诅咒。
So Pelops reigns, it's all great, but there is a curse that's been put on his family.
我知道你刚去过迈锡尼，对吧？
And I know you just went to Mycenae, didn't you?
阿特柔斯家族。
House Of Atreus.
是
Is
这是佩洛普斯的儿子的家。
this the house the son of Pelops.
所以阿伽门农、克吕泰涅斯特拉、厄勒克特拉，所有这些事。
So Agamemnon, Clytom Nestra, Elektra, all that stuff.
所有这些都源于那场灾难性的赛车比赛。
All that stems from this disastrous chariot race.
嗯，对佩洛普斯来说不算灾难，但对他后代来说是灾难。
Well, not disastrous for Belobs, but disastrous for his successors.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yes.
因此，你会感受到，我们谈论体育时，谈论英雄，有很多关于英雄的讨论。
And so you have there the sense that so, know, we talk in sport, we talk about heroes, lots of talk about heroes.
在希腊，英雄是一种略带威胁的存在。
A hero in Greece is something faintly menacing.
他有点接近神性，而神性总是危险的。
It's someone who's kind of has a touch of the divine and the divine is always dangerous.
所以佩洛普斯并不是个讨人喜欢的人。
So Peelops is not a pleasant guy.
他是个骗子。
Mean he's a cheat.
他根本一点都不讨喜，但他
He's really not pleasant at all and yet he
却有种奇异的特质，
has something of the strange,
具有希腊意义上那种恶魔般的气质。
something of the kind of demonic in the Greek sense.
这种奇异与怪异的感觉笼罩着随后出现的那些赛事。
And that sense of the strange and the weird hangs over the games that then kind of emerge.
所以你觉得，这些比赛是一种赎罪的方式吗？
So there's a sense of the games being expiating sin, you think?
这种说法会不会太强烈了？
Is that too strong?
我觉得这种说法确实太强烈了。
I think I think that is too strong.
我认为关键在于英雄的时代已经过去了。
I I think the key is that the age of heroes has passed.
它随着特洛伊战争一同消逝了。
So it passes with the Trojan War.
但当你来到奥林匹亚，观看马车赛、摔跤或其他项目，看到令人惊叹的表现时，你就仿佛回到了英雄时代，而我们所处的只是铁器时代。
But you come to Olympia and if you're watching the chariot races or the wrestling or whatever and you see astounding performances you are as close to the age of heroes as you possibly can be in the age of iron that we all live in.
这正是它的魅力所在。
And that's the fascination of it.
它仿佛打开了一扇通往奇异世界的门户。
That it's kind of opening up a portal to the weird.
所以，宙斯是创始人之一，佩洛普斯是另一个，第三个是赫拉克勒斯，你知道的，他的十二项功绩。
So you've got you've got Zeus is one of the founders, Pelops is the other, the third one is Heracles, you know, his 12 labors.
另一个说法是，他完成十二项功绩后来到这里，创立了运动会，并在佩洛普斯的坟墓前献祭了一只黑羊。
And and the other story is that, he comes there after he's finished his labors, and he institutes the games, and he sacrifices a black ram before the tomb of Pelops.
每四年举办一次运动会时，他们都会向佩洛普斯献祭一只羊，这就是他们所做的。
And this is something that they do every four years of the games, they sacrifice a ram to Pelops.
你知道，你实际上是在参与这些极其生动的故事。
And, you know, you are kind of taking part in these incredibly vivid stories.
这些故事鲜活地存在于你所做的一切之中。
They are alive and a part of what you were doing.
这正是古希腊奥运会一切意义的根本所在。
And that is absolutely fundamental to everything that the Olympics in antiquity are about.
所以，暂且撇开神话，比赛的观念是从哪里来的？
So just to get away from the myth for a second, where did the idea of games come from?
这是希腊人从哪里借鉴来的？
Is it something the Greeks have got from where have they got it from?
是从克里特岛、埃及，还是安纳托利亚来的？
From Crete, from Egypt, from from Anatolia?
还是他们自己发明的？
Or do they invent it?
其他地方有比赛吗？
Are there games in other places?
我认为这是对成为最优秀者的某种执念的体现。
I think it's an expression of a kind of obsession with being best.
希腊人能把任何事情都变成比赛。
So the Greeks can make a contest out of anything.
你知道，他们能把悲剧、诗歌，甚至纺织这些事都变成比赛，简直像选美一样。
You know, can make a contest out of well, know famously plays so tragedies, poetry, it's kind of beauty contests, weaving.
我的意思是，希腊人没有什么东西是不能变成比赛的。
I mean there's absolutely nothing that the Greeks can't make into a contest.
我倒是很想看看纺织比赛。
I wouldn't hate to see the weaving contest.
但如果你是希腊人，你可能会。
But if you're a Greek, you might.
尤其是，比如雅典娜和阿拉克涅对决，你知道输的人会被变成蜘蛛。
And particularly, know, if it's kind of Athena against Arachne, and you know that the loser is going to be turned into a spider.
没错，这确实是真的。
Mean, that's true.
我愿意花钱去看，我肯定会掏钱看。
I would pay to I'd definitely pay to see that.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这就是关键，每件事都伴随着风险。
So that's the measure, there's jeopardy in everything.
这也反映了希腊人的思维方式，他们根本没有为运动而运动的概念。
And it kind of reflects the way in which you know the Greeks, you know they don't have they have no concept of sport for sports sake.
我们刚才在讨论领奖台，金牌、银牌和铜牌，但本质上根本没有什么银牌或铜牌。
So we were talking about podiuming the idea of gold, silver and bronze but basically there is no bronze or silver.
你赢了或者输了，而当你赢的时候，其中一个奖励就是可以委托创作一首胜利颂歌。
You win or you lose and when you win one of the perks you get is you get to commission a kind of victory hymn.
这就像是请碧昂丝或类似的人为你在百米赛跑中的胜利谱写赞歌，像蕾哈娜那样。
It's like getting Beyonce or somebody to celebrate your victory in 100 meters something like that, Rihanna.
在古希腊，专门做这件事的著名人物是来自底比斯的品达。
And the famous guy who does this in ancient Greece is a guy called Pinda from Thebes.
他是个剧作家。
He's a playwright.
他是剧作家吗？
Is he a playwright?
品达？
Pinda?
不是。
No.
他创作这些颂歌，庆祝这些胜利。
Writes these odes, these kind of victories.
他主要就是因为这个而闻名的。
That's what he's chiefly known for.
他还有这样的事。
And he has this.
所以他不仅在赞美胜者，也在描写败者；昨天你还在希腊晒太阳的时候，我打了一场灾难性的板球比赛，结果得了个零分。
So as much as he's writing in praise of the winner, he's also writing about the losers and while you were sunning yourself in Greece yesterday I had this disastrous game of cricket where I got out for naught.
这种事总是发生在你身上，
That always happens to you,
对吧？
doesn't it?
你总是不——不是总这样。
That you always Not go out not always.
我因为那次失误葬送了整场比赛。
I bulby over that loss us the game.
简直是灾难。
Was absolutely disaster.
我回来后，为了准备这期节目，读了一些品德的作品。
And I came back and was reading some pinder in preparation for this episode.
我偶然看到一段关于失败者的内容，品德写道：他们回到母亲身边时，没有欢乐的迎接。
And I came across this about the losers where pinder writes no joyous homecoming for them on their return to their mothers.
没有甜蜜的笑声，也没有喜悦的涌动。
No sweet laughter, no surge of joy.
他们悄然溜进黑暗的小巷，躲避着敌人，而这正是他们失败意识的体现。
Down dark alleyways they slink, avoiding their enemies, nor that by the consciousness of their defeat.
哦，汤姆。
Oh, Tom.
我的天，巴里，我真为你心痛。
My my heart bleeds for you, Barry.
我知道。
I I know.
你显然已经经历了
You've you've clearly been through
这场板球比赛之后，经历了一场灵魂的黑夜。
a dark night of the soul after this cricket match.
我确实有。
I have.
我确实有。
I have.
但这里没有那种英勇的英国选手排名第八之类的情节。
But there's none of this, you know, plucky British contender coming in eight kind of thing.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
任何排名第八的人，任何排名第二的人都是失败者，你翻回去看
Anyone who comes in eight anyone who comes in second is a loser, and you flick back
某个英勇的苏格兰长跑选手，落后着冲过终点，名列第五。
in some some gallant Scottish long distance runner trailing in in fifth.
不好。
No good.
完全一点都不好。
Absolute absolutely no good at all.
绝对不好。
Absolutely no good.
所以我认为，那种追求卓越的野心。
So I think I think that it's it's that kind of ambition to be the best.
所以没有骑士精神。
So there's no Corinthian spirit.
骑士精神完全是英国人的发明。
The Corinthian spirit is a is a total British invention.
在古希腊根本没有什么骑士精神。
There was no such thing as the Corinthian spirit in ancient Greece.
没有。
No.
这种业余精神，希腊人根本没有‘业余’这个词。
It's it's that that's a kind of so that that amateur spirit, the Greeks have no word for amateur either.
现代奥运会中这种倾向，嗯，我相信当我们谈到现代奥运会的节目时，我们会深入讨论这一点。
That kind of that strain within the modern Olympics is well, come you know, I'm sure we'll talk about that when we get onto our program about the the modern Olympics.
这源自什罗普郡，对吧？
It comes from Shropshire, doesn't it?
这是英国的发明。
It's British invention.
什罗普郡和科茨沃尔德，这两个我非常熟悉的地方，基本上是现代奥运会的摇篮。
Shropshire and the Cotswolds, two places I know very well, are basically the cradles of the modern Olympics.
但我们会稍后再谈这个。
But we will come on to that later on.
汤姆，那些运动员——他们根本没有‘业余’这个词，但参赛的运动员确实是业余的，对吧？
Tom, but the the athletes who are they have no word for amateur, but the athletes that are participating are amateurs, aren't they?
他们肯定不是职业选手。
They're they're not professionals, surely.
你需要训练十个月，其中有一个月必须在埃利斯进行。
Well, you you have to train for for ten months and you have to for one of those months you have to you have to do it at Ellis.
确实，你赢得胜利后并不会得到报酬。
And it's true you don't get paid for your victory.
但当你回去时，肯定会获得各种福利、礼品、赞助协议之类的东西。
But when you go back, you're guaranteed all kinds of perks and goodies and sponsorship deals and things like that.
是的。
Yes.
茶企会争着雇你当网红，就像播客主持人那样。
Tea companies will queue up to employ you as an influencer as is the case with podcast presenters.
没错。
Exactly.
你知道，做这些事需要时间和金钱。
It it, you know, it requires time and money to do that.
对。
Yeah.
比如Koroypod，那个屠夫，他就很特别，因为通常屠夫没有时间花十个月去训练短跑。
So Koroypod, for instance, know, the butcher, he's unusual because generally butchers don't have time to have ten months to to train for a sprint.
所以总的来说，参赛者都很富有吗？
So by and large, the contestants quite are they rich?
他们通常都很富有。
They tend to be very rich.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，这和现在有点像，不是吗？
You know, it's a bit like today, isn't it?
因为赢得最多奖牌的往往是富裕国家。
Because it tends to be wealthy countries that win the most medals.
当然。
Of course.
人们经常说，太多公学男生之类的。
And people often say too many public school boys and all this kind of thing.
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是的，完全正确。
Yes exactly.
所以情况完全一样。
So it's exactly the same.
当然，还有一个更深层的维度：在赛马场，也就是战车赛和骑马比赛中，获得奖牌的并不是驾驶战车或骑马的人。
And then of course there's the further dimension which is that in the hippodrome, so the chariot racing and the riding on horseback, The person who gets the medal isn't the person who's driving the chariot or the person who's riding the horse.
而是马匹的主人。
It's the person who owns the horses.
因此，马匹要贵重得多。
So horses are much more valuable.
这正是我想问你的，因为我查看了著名获胜者的名单，发现例如托勒密埃及的阿尔西诺厄二世曾赢得战车赛。
This is something I really wanted to ask you about because I was looking at the list of famous winners and I saw that, for example, Arsinoe II, queen of Ptolemaic Egypt, had won the chariot race.
我当时想，真的吗？
And I thought, really?
我以为女性是不允许参加奥运会的，但显然她只是资助了或其他人代她参赛。
I thought women weren't allowed to participate in the Olympics, but clearly she had sponsored or whatever, some other chariot racer.
当然，马其顿的腓力，他的马在亚历山大大帝出生那天赢了比赛，但他本人并没有亲自参赛。
And of course, Philip Of Macedon, he he his horse won on the day supposedly when Alexander the Great was born, but he wasn't racing it himself.
这就像是女王的马赢得了德比大赛之类的比赛，你知道的。
So it's rather like the Queen's horse winning, you know, the Derby or whatever.
是的。
Yeah.
完全正确。
That's exactly right.
而且，我想我们应该休息一下，但先快速说一下关于女性的问题。
And, yeah, I think I mean we should go to a break but just quickly on the issue of women.
女性不允许参赛，也不允许进入圣地，已婚女性更是完全不允许参加节日活动。
So women are not allowed to compete and they're not even allowed to go into the sanctuary and married women are not allowed to go to the festival full stop.
这非常性别歧视。
So it's very sexist.
等等，已婚女性不行，但未婚女性可以吗？
Hold on, married women aren't but single women are?
嗯，差不多是吧。
Well kind of yes.
妓女是可以进入的，还有上层的交际花和未婚处女，不过由于这本质上是一场大规模的狂欢盛会，未婚处女通常不会去那里。
Prostitutes were allowed to go, high class courtesans, unmarried virgins, although since it's a massive kind of whore fest by and large unmarried virgins tend not to go there.
但毫无疑问，作为女性你是不能参赛的，而你能参赛的唯一方式就是派出马车。因此，第一位在奥运会上获胜的女性是斯巴达人，我确信她的名字就在那份斯巴达获胜者名单上，她叫基尼丝卡，她在三月派出马车参赛，四年后在下一届奥运会上再次获胜，她留下了一段美妙的铭文：‘幸存者’。
But definitely you know as a woman you're not allowed to compete but the one way that you can compete is to enter chariots And so the very first woman to win in the Olympic Games is a Spartan and I'm sure her name would have been on that list of Spartan victors called Kyniska who enters a chariot in March, wins again four years later in the next batch of the games and she has this kind of wonderful inscription which is survivor.
铭文上写着：‘我的父亲和兄弟们都是斯巴达的国王。’
It says my father and brothers were kings of Sparta.
我宣称自己是全希腊唯一一位赢得桂冠的女性。
I proclaim myself the only woman in all of Greece to have won the crown.
因此，她被尊为奥运会上的伟大英雄。
So she's commemorated as a kind of great hero of the Olympics.
但还有一位女性也扮演了关键角色，她叫费雷尼凯，她与著名的拳击传统有关。
But there's one other woman who plays a key role which is a woman called Ferenike who has a she's kind of part of this great boxing tradition.
她是拳击手吗？
Is she a boxer?
不，她不是，但她属于这个家族。
No she's not but she belongs to this.
她嫁给了一个拳击冠军，他的祖父、父亲、兄弟都是冠军，而他的儿子也正在接受训练，准备成为拳击手。
She's kind of married to one who's Olympic champion, his grandfather, his father was, his brothers were and his son is training to become one as well.
这个儿子的父亲——也就是说，这个儿子名叫皮西多鲁斯。
And the son's father so this son is he's called Pisidorus.
他来自罗德岛。
He's from Rhodes.
他正在为奥运会进行紧张的训练，但他的父亲去世了。
He's in busy training for the for the games and his father dies.
他的父亲一直负责训练他。
His father's been training him.
所以现在他陷入了困境，不知道该由谁来继续训练他。
So he's stuck, know, who's he gonna have to train him.
就在这时，一个神秘人物出现了，披着一件白色斗篷。
And then this mysterious figure appears cloaked in a white cloak.
他以为是一位神明化身的英雄前来指导他。
And he assumes that it's a god who's for a hero who's come to coach him.
训练过程是这样的：他们在罗德岛训练九个月，然后前往奥林匹亚，在埃利斯再训练一段时间，接着举行游行队伍前往奥林匹亚，在村子里安顿下来，比赛时间终于到来。
Coaching goes through, you know, they do their nine months training in Rhodes, they go to Olympia, they do their months training in Ellis, and then the procession to Olympia, settle down in the village, the time comes for the game.
皮西多罗斯赢得了比赛，夺得了决赛的胜利。
Pisidoris he wins, he wins the final bout.
那位披着斗篷、戴着帽子的教练激动得跳过了围栏。
And the trainer who's kind of cloaked and hooded is so excited that he leaps over the fence.
当然，你知道的，像苏格兰人那样，他们不穿裤子，也不穿内衣。
And of course, you know, like Scotsman, they don't they don't wear pants, they don't wear, underwear.
所有人都发现，这位神秘人物其实是一位女性，她名叫费罗尼凯，这个名字恰如其分地意味着‘带来胜利的人’。
And everyone is able to see that this mysterious figure is in fact a woman and it turns out to be Ferronike whose name aptly enough means bring her a victory.
这是一项死罪。
And this is a capital offense.
如果女人被发现在运动会现场，就会被扔下悬崖。
If you are a woman and you're found at the games you get chucked off a mountaintop.
是的。
Oh yeah.
所以
So
他们被带到奥林匹克裁判面前，你知道，他们在商量该怎么办？
they're brought before the Olympic judges and you know they're deciding what are we going to do?
他们决定，因为她出身于一个伟大的体育世家，不可能把她扔下悬崖，于是他们说：好吧，我们放你一马。
And they decide that because she is from this great dynasty, this great sporting dynasty, they can't possibly chuck her off a cliff and so they say okay we'll let you off.
你将成为唯一一位训练出奥运冠军的女性。
You will be the one woman who has trained an Olympic champion.
例外恰恰证明了
The exception that proves
但他们制定了一项新规则：从今以后，不仅运动员，连教练也必须裸体出场。
the But they institute a new rule which is that from this point on not only the athletes but also the trainers have to perform in the nude.
天哪。
Oh my word.
这太好笑了。
That is hilarious.
而且，你知道，我可不想看到那个吗？
And I, you know, I mean, wouldn't like to see that?
你肯定完全不想吧？
Think totally wouldn't you?
我的意思是，
Mean,
太棒了，真有趣。
great it'd fun.
教练和运动员都裸体。
The trainers and the athletes in the nude.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，想象一下晒伤吧。
I mean, imagine the sunburn.
想象一下晒伤吧。
Imagine the sunburn.
确实如此。
That's true.
但我可能不会花钱去看那些所谓的东欧重量级选手。
But I probably wouldn't pay to see some of those kind of, I don't know, Eastern European heavyweights.
毛发在各种奇怪的地方长出来。
Hair sprouting in all kinds of peculiar places.
是的。
Yes.
好吧，我想我就以这个令人震惊的话题收尾吧。
Well, I think I think on that shocking note
这个播客里没有哪个刻板印象会被放过。
No stereotype goes on goes on unused on this podcast.
对。
Right.
我们该休息一下了，对吧？
We should take a break, shouldn't we?
我们应该让你留下这个画面。
We should leave you with that image.
我们该休息一下，然后回来。
We should take a break, and we'll return.
我觉得我们应该谈谈政治。
I we think should talk about the politics.
我觉得我们应该谈谈奥林匹克休战。
I think we should talk about the Olympic truce.
我觉得我们应该谈谈著名的奥运选手。
I think we should talk about famous Olympians.
我们有太多内容要讨论了。
We've got tons to discuss.
一分钟后见。
See you in a minute.
好的。
Okay.
欢迎回到《历史其余部分》。
Welcome back to The Rest is History.
我们正在讨论古代奥运会，以配合东京奥运会。
We are talking about the Ancient Olympics to coincide with the Tokyo Olympics.
所以，汤姆，有一件事让我着迷，我相信也吸引了很多人对古代奥运会的兴趣，那就是它的政治层面，特别是奥林匹克休战的概念——它是标志着城邦之间停战，还是仅仅禁止携带武器进入奥运会，或者别的什么？
So, Tom, something that absolutely fascinates me and I think has fascinated lots of people about the Ancient Olympics is this sort of political dimension, and particularly the idea of the Olympic truce, whether it marks a cessation of hostilities between the city states or whether you just can't take weapons into the Olympics or or what.
所以请具体解释一下实际情况。
So explain exactly what's going on.
这更像是一种停战协议。
It's it's more like an armistice.
所以战争仍在继续。
So war carries on.
这就是为什么奥运会安排在四月举行，当时波斯人正在逃避，而且奥运会甚至在伯罗奔尼撒战争期间也照常举行。
That's why the Olympics, they play them in April when the Persians are evading and they they play them throughout the Peloponnesian war and so on.
但本质上，这意味着如果你是雅典人或斯巴达人，你可以去参加奥运会，你们会相遇、竞争，所有人都会认可你们参赛的权利。
But essentially it means that you know if you're an Athenian or you're a Spartan you can go to the Olympics and you will meet and you will compete and everyone will accept your right to be there.
这是一种理想，一种泛希腊的理想，这才是伟大的理念。
And that's the kind of ideal it's it's so it's kind of pan Hellenic and that's the great ideal.
我认为，在希腊世界中，他们彼此之间不断争斗，而奥运会是敌人相遇、并在某种程度上感受到某种亲缘关系的唯一机会。
And I think you know in the context of the Greek world where they are endlessly fighting each other, it is the one chance for enemies to meet up and to kind of to that extent feel a certain degree of kind of kinship.
这种亲缘关系的问题真的很有趣。
That question of kinship is really interesting.
那么，能否参加奥运会就是判断一个人是否为希腊人的标志吗？
So is the mark of being a Greek whether or not you can go to the Olympics?
那么，小亚细亚、西西里和意大利等地的希腊殖民地，他们是否
So do the Greek colonies in Asia Minor and Sicily and Italy and so on, do they
派代表参加奥运会？
send people to the Olympics?
是的，他们会。
They do.
当然。
Absolutely.
是的，你基本上必须是自由的希腊人。
Yeah, Yeah, you have to be free Greek basically.
所以你必须会说希腊语吗？
So do you have to speak Greek?
你需要证明自己是希腊人吗？
Do you have to prove Greek?
是的。
Yes
由裁判决定你是否可以参赛。
and the judges decide whether you can compete or not.
因此，关于马其顿人是否算作希腊人，存在一些争议。
So that you'll know that there's kind of disagreement about whether the Macedonians say are Greek.
是的。
Yes.
但总的来说，是的，这是给自由出生的希腊人准备的，也就是希腊语使用者。
But by and large yes it's for free born Greeks, so Greek speakers.
是的，绝对如此，我的意思是，一些最伟大的冠军来自西西里等地。
Yes and absolutely I mean some of the greatest champions come from Sicily say.
于是他们所有人会合，教练和运动员会在埃利斯训练一个月，然后我认为是在夏至后第一个或第二个满月时，你们从埃利斯出发，前往奥林匹亚，大约35英里，需要两天时间。
And so they all meet up, the trainers and the athletes would have been at Ellis for a month practicing there and then I think it's the kind of the first or second full moon after the summer solstice and when that comes you set off from Elis, it's a kind of about 35 miles to Olympia, takes you two days.
你知道，沿途设有各种仪式，所以在奥运会上会宰杀大量猪只。
You know the route is marked by various rituals so there's an awful lot of sacrificing pigs at the Olympics.
所以
So
这对猪来说是坏消息。
it's bad news for pigs.
这对猪来说是糟糕的消息，对牛也是如此，它们稍后也会出现。
It's terrible news for pigs and it's also terrible news for oxen which will come to you in due course.
也许你会经过圣泉，杀一头猪；然后到达某个英雄做过某事的地方，再杀一头猪。
Maybe you kind of you go past Sacred Spring, you kill a pig, you come to a place where some hero did something, you kill a pig.
你们都抵达了奥林匹克村。
And you all arrive at the Olympic Village.
奥林匹亚并不是一座城市，你知道的。
And so Olympia is not, you know, it's not a city.
所以它有点像格拉斯顿伯里音乐节。
So it's a bit it's kind of like Glastonbury.
那是一个盛大的节日。
It's a great festival.
那种氛围很棒。
It's great feel.
他们住帐篷，是吗？
They stay in tents, don't they?
是的，他们确实
They do they
都睡在帐篷里吗？
all sleep in tents?
他们都睡在帐篷里，或者根本没地方睡。
They all sleep in tents or or not at all.
你知道，你得在露天睡觉。
You know, you you sleep out in the open.
天气热得惊人。
It's incredibly hot.
尘土多得惊人。
It's incredibly dusty.
没有厕所设施。
There are no toilet facilities.
所以这比格拉斯顿伯里更糟糕。
So it's even worse than Glastonbury.
但这里有个关于高温的问题。
But here's a question about the heat.
我现在就在希腊。
So I'm in Greece right now.
天气极其炎热，气温在三十五到三十八度之间。
It's incredibly hot, mid to late thirties.
他们在夏季的酷热中比赛。
They are competing in the heat of summer.
这就是他们赤身裸体的原因吗？
Is that why they're naked?
还是说赤身裸体是为了表达对人类身体的崇拜？
Or is the nakedness to do with the worship of the human body kind of thing?
据说有一位参赛者在跑步时腰布滑落了。
Well, the story is that there's this contender and his loincloth slips off while he's running.
结果他的表现反而更好了。
And it kind of improves his performance.
于是大家都开始效仿。
And so everyone goes for it.
我的意思是，这就是流传的说法。
I mean, that's the story that gets told.
保萨尼阿斯对此持相当怀疑的态度。
Pausanias is rather cynical about it.
他说，那位参赛者声称自己的腰布意外滑落。
Says that that he said, you know, this contender says that it slipped off.
但实际上，他是有意脱掉它，以获得竞争优势。
But actually he'd realized and thrown it aside to get this competitive advantage.
我的意思是，这其实相当具有情色意味。
I mean, it's it's, you know, it's very home erotic.
我的意思是，现场有很多盯着别人看、打量人的行为。
I mean, there's a lot of kind of ogling and eyeing people up.
奥运会的一个特点就是，我们知道男性和女性参赛者是分开的。
And one of the things that the Olympic Games offer is you know that we have male and female different contenders.
他们将参赛者分为男子组和男孩组。
They divide it up between men and boys.
因此，比赛的第一轮实际上是男孩组的比赛。
So the first round of games is actually the boys.
第一天他们跑步、摔跤，
The first day they run, they wrestle,
他们拳击。
they box.
你说的男孩，是指青少年吗？
When you say boys, teenagers?
大概到20岁左右。
Kind of up to the age of 20.
但是，
But it's,
你
you
你知道，那时候没有出生证明。
know, there are no birth certificates.
由裁判来决定。
It's up to the judges.
所以，如果你是个男孩，参加了拳击比赛，而裁判却说你其实已经成年了，还要对阵一个可怕的巨人身躯，这始终存在风险。
So there's always the risk if you're a boy and you've entered the boxing and the judge says actually you're a man and you're up against some terrifying man mountain.
赶紧逃跑吧。
Mean run away.
所以这始终是一种风险。
So it's always a kind of risk.
因此，第一天会发生这些事，男孩们不仅参赛，还要在宙斯面前宣誓，誓言是用一头被肢解的猪来立下的。
So that's what happens on the first day and also the boys compete and also you swear an oath before Zeus and you swear it over a dismembered pig.
又是猪？
Pigs again?
是的。
Yeah.
希腊人跟猪有什么过节？
What do the Greeks got it in?
为什么总跟猪过不去？
Got against pigs?
如果你作弊，虽然这种情况并不常见，但偶尔会发生，你会被罚款，罚款将用于铸造一尊你的青铜像，你的耻辱将被公开展示，永远留存。
And if you cheat, so this doesn't happen very often but it happens occasionally, you will be fined and the fines will go to make a bronze of you and your shame will then you know it'll be put up publicly and it'll be there forevermore.
那他叫什么名字？
So what's his name?
是本·约翰逊吗？
Is it Ben Johnson?
本·约翰逊。
Ben Johnson.
所以实际上，本·约翰逊的雕像被
So it's actually Ben Johnson put
竖立在了那个地方。
up wherever it was.
你知道吗？这其实是个相当有效的威慑，不是吗？
And you know That's quite a deterrent actually, isn't it?
这确实是个不小的震慑，
It's quite a gun,
不是吗？
isn't it?
这是一个非常有效的威慑手段。
It's a very good deterrent.
我认为他们应该在所有比赛中引入这种做法
I think I mean, I think they should introduce that
所有比赛。
to all tournaments.
你会被红牌罚下。
You get red carded.
是的。
Yeah.
但这里有个问题，关于那些改变队伍的人，难道不会让人怀疑他们换队吗？
But here's a question about people who so isn't there some suspicion that people change teams?
我刚才在读一个叫什么人的故事，我手上有张纸。
So I was reading about a man called where I've got my piece of paper.
索塔尔德参加了第九十九届奥运会。
Sotardes at the ninety ninth Olympics.
他最初代表克里特参赛，后来又代表以弗所参赛。
So first he competed for Crete, and then he competed for Ephesus.
下次以弗所人付钱给他，让他代表他们，因为他是个明星。
The next time the Ephesians paid him to represent them because he was a star.
他是一名顶尖运动员。
He was an elite athlete.
随后，克里特人因对他极为愤怒而永久放逐了他。
And then the Cretans banished him forevermore because they were so cross with him.
是的。
Yeah.
还有一种风险是，你的城市如果犯了某种罪行，你可能会被禁赛。
And there's a further risk that that, you know, you might be banned because your city has committed some offence.
在伯罗奔尼撒战争的最后几年，斯巴达就发生过这种情况。
So this happened to Sparta in the last years of the Peloponnesian War.
斯巴达是希腊最强大的城邦，但外族人驱逐了他们，说他们不能参赛。
Sparta is the most powerful city in Greece, but the the aliens banished them, say that they can't take part.
因此，许多斯巴达运动员偷偷混入比赛，冒充底比斯人等其他城邦的人。
So very Spartan athletes kind of smuggle themselves in as tend to be Thebans and so on.
这就有点像1980年代的南非运动员，比如佐拉·布德，Exactly。
So it's bit like South African athletes in the 1980s like Zola Budd or Exactly
所以，政治完全融入了这场复杂的混乱之中。
so politics is all part of this kind of great snarl.
因此，从某种意义上说，最著名的例子发生在伯罗奔尼撒战争前夕，那就是雅典的宠儿阿尔西比亚德斯，他在其中扮演了关键角色。
So in a way the most famous example of that again in the backdrop to the Peloponnesian war, this great war between Athens and Sparta is Alcibiades who is the kind of the golden boy of Athens who plays a key role.
他一度从雅典投奔斯巴达，之后又回到了雅典。
He actually switches from Athens to Sparta at one point then switches back to Athens.
但在他巅峰时期，正当他准备率领雅典远征西西里以展示雅典实力时，他前往奥林匹亚，参加了马车赛，据说派出了九辆马车，并包揽了前三名。
But at his kind of peak as he's preparing the Athenian invasion of Sicily to kind of signal the power of Athens he goes to Olympia and he enters I think it's nine chariots in the chariot race and he takes the top three spots.
是的，这确实有点作弊，但你知道，很多人觉得这太过分了，但同样也有很多人对此惊叹不已，这件事被铭记下来，成为一段流传至今的传奇。
Yeah well it kind of is cheating but you know and there are lots of people who do think this is too much but equally there are lots of people who are wowed by it and it's remembered and it's something that kind of you know lives on.
马车赛是第一项成年组比赛。
So the chariot race is the first kind of adult race.
对。
Right.
这显然源于普洛普斯所进行的赛跑，因此可以说……
And that's obviously because that's going back to the race that PLOPS has done so it's kind of And
这真是一个重大亮点，不是吗？
that's a big highlight isn't it?
这是一个巨大的亮点，接着是赛马，同样，佩洛普斯拥有这些马匹。如果你去奥林匹亚的博物馆，你会发现佩洛普斯的马匹雕塑，堪称你所能见到的最美丽也最令人恐惧的作品之一。
Massive highlight and then you have the horse race and again Peelops has these horses and if you go to Olympiad, you go to the museum, the horses of Peelops are kind of, mean some of the most beautiful terrifying sculptures you could ever see.
它们令人叹为观止，我认为它们比任何其他从古代留存下来的东西更能传达出运动会的力量、奇异、魅力与恐怖。
They're breathtakingly and they kind of evoke the power and the strangeness and the glamour and the terror of the games I think better than almost anything else that I can think of that survived from antiquity.
它们极具力量感。
They're incredibly powerful.
我认为希腊人也有同样的感受，尤其是马车赛，极其危险。
And I think the Greeks felt that as well so there was particularly with the chariots they were so dangerous.
你面临的危险总是马车会解体，然后你就会丧命。
You turn the risk is always that you're going to come, your chariots going to splinter then you're going to die.
据说那个转弯处有一个幽灵出没，但没人确切知道它是谁，也许是奥伊娜·迈斯，或者是密尔托罗斯，或者这些神话中的某个人，但这种存在诅咒、幽灵盘踞的想法，无疑又增添了危险性。
And it said that there was a ghost that haunted that turning point and nobody was quite sure who it was but maybe it was Oyna Maes or Myrtolos or you know one of these guys in the myth but this idea that there is a kind of curse, a ghost haunting it, I mean it kind of adds jeopardy to it again.
所以在第二天早上，你有马术项目，接着是五项全能，这恰恰体现了希腊人的理想——你必须精通各种技能，因为如果你是短跑选手，你希望身材纤瘦；如果你参加力量型项目，你希望体格健壮；而五项全能运动员则是身体素质的完美平衡点。
So you have the equestrian events in the morning of day two, then you have the pentathlon which again is kind of it's absolutely the kind of the Greek ideal really that you're proficient at all these kind of various skills because if you're a runner you want to be kind of slim if you're taking part in the kind of the brawnier feats then you want to be bulky but the pentathlete is kind of midpoint, the ideal of physicality.
戴利·汤普森。
Daily Thompson.
是的，绝对如此。第二天结束时，会举行盛大的狂欢派对，阿尔西比亚德斯带来了雅典的所有金制装饰品，并谎称是自己的。
Yes absolutely and then day two comes to an end and you have a massive piss up and that's where so Alcibiades has brought all the kind of the gold fittings from Athens and he passes it off as his own.
为素食者提供了饮食。
Vegetarians are catered for.
所以素食主义者恩培多克勒去参加奥运会时，带来了一头用面团烤箱烘烤、并用香草和香料装饰的巨大公牛。
So Empedocles who's a vegetarian, he goes to the Olympics and he provides this kind of massive ox that's been baked in an oven made of dough and garnished with herbs and spices and things.
这非常令人印象深刻。
That's very impressive.
是的，知道这个挺好的，不是吗？
Yeah so that's nice to know isn't it?
然后很明显，所有人都被彻底放倒了，他们醒来时天气酷热，根本不可能参赛。
And then obviously everyone is absolutely slaughtered so they wake up, it's boiling hot, you can't possibly compete.
对。
Yeah.
你能想象吗？
Can you imagine?
我的意思是，他们睡在帐篷里，带着巨大的宿醉，烈日当空，也许他们只是知道
I mean, they're they're sleeping in the tents with these colossal hangovers, the sun pounding down, and they might just know
如果你醒来时天气极其炎热，而且头痛欲裂，你就得明白该怎么做。
what you do need to see if you got if you wake up, it's incredibly hot, and you've got a pounding hangover.
我个人会去游泳。
I go swimming, personally.
他们该怎么办？
What do they do?
他们为了纪念宙斯宰杀了上百头牛。
They slaughter a 100 oxen in honor of Zeus.
哦，相比之下，我可算个酒量差的，赫科托姆。
Oh, I'm a bit of a lightweight by comparison, Hecotomb.
而且这简直，嗯，我们知道这很恶心，因为
And it's it's kind of well, we know it's disgusting because
想想那些苍蝇和臭味吧，好吧。
Just think of the flies and the stench Okay.
还有血的味道之类的。
Of blood and all
所以你们会向宙斯阿波米奥斯献祭，意思是驱赶苍蝇的宙斯。
So so you make sacrifice to Zeus Apomios, which means Zeus who keeps flies away.
哦，原来如此。
Oh, right.
我不信这个。
I don't believe that.
我对这是否有效持怀疑态度。
I'm skeptical about whether that would work.
显然，它是有效的。
Apparently, it did.
据说，在祭坛周围根本没有苍蝇。
So around the altar, apparently, there were no flies.
你完全可以表示怀疑。
You may well express skepticism.
但那个祭坛，你知道祭坛是用什么做的吗？
But the altar, the altar, do you know what the altar was made of?
死猪？
Dead pigs?
天啊，那
God, that
它是用被宰杀的牛的骨灰与水混合成的糊状物制成的。
is It's it's made of the ashes of the slaughtered oxen mixed with water into a paste.
所以它是一大块
So it's a great lump of
这听起来像是我能想象到的最糟糕的场合。
This sounds the most this just sounds the most terrible occasion imaginable.
嗯，每个人
Well, everyone
都说这是个糟糕的场合。
says it's a terrible occasion.
人太多，苍蝇也太多。
Too many crowds and too many flies.
太热了。
It's too hot.
太恶心了。
It's too disgusting.
但每个人都说这太神奇了。
But everyone says it's amazing.
所以这就是上周的情况，因为就是这样
So that's what makes it last week because that's what
人们都是这么说的。
people say.
这有点像
It's kind of
但确实，那些都是用死去的牛的骨灰制成的。
it's it's but but yes, there's all those uses made up of the ashes of dead oxen.
如果你跟我说，这不就是我能想象出像埃隆·马斯克这样的人会做的事吗？
If you said to me is it not the this is the kind of thing I can imagine someone like Elon Musk doing.
是的。
Yes.
他们什么都没有？
They nothing?
他们都会光着身子。
They're all gonna be naked.
他们将在酷热的仲夏时节赤身裸体。
They were gonna be naked in pounding midsummer heat.
到处都会是苍蝇，还有死牛。
There's gonna be, like, flies everywhere, dead oxen.
是的。
Yeah.
这太棒了。
It's great.
我明白了，所以你看，这和那种企业化的、所谓的‘Smooth Fest’根本完全不一样。
I see so you see it's nothing really like the corporate the corporate Smooth Fest that is the No.
让我们看看国际奥委会是否会引入一些这些真正的传统。
Let's see the IOC introduce some of these some of these proper traditions.
所以你在宙斯神庙里这么做，那里有菲迪亚斯创作的宏伟雕像，他也设计了帕特农神庙。
So that's so you do and you do that at the Temple Of Zeus, know with this great statue by Phidias who also does the Parthenon.
然后到了第四天，就是赛跑。
Then you have day four and this is the running.
所以你有中距离跑、短跑、长距离短跑，下午还有真正吸引观众的项目，比如摔跤和拳击。
So you've got the middle distance run, you've got the sprint, you've the long sprint and and then in the afternoon you've got the real crowd pleases which is the wrestling and the boxing.
实际上，你刚才问到了晒伤的问题。
And actually you asked about getting burnt in the sun.
所以摔跤手，我是说，如果他们涂上油，然后全身覆盖上
So the wrestlers, I mean if they oil themselves and then they They're cover themselves in
他们难道不是在太阳底下像煎炸一样吗？
frying surely in the sun aren't they?
我的意思是，灰尘能保护你吗？
I mean does the dust protect you?
我的意思是，涂了那么多油？
I mean with all the oil?
我想是吧。
I guess so.
真的吗？
Really?
我想是吧。
I guess so.
是的，我想是吧。
Yeah I guess so.
但你的样子可能会很奇怪。
But I mean you can look very odd.
就像《现代启示录》里那个叫什么名字的人？
Look like what's his name in Apocalypse Now?
仿佛从泥浆中升起。
Kind of rising up out of the mud.
哦，
Oh,
对。
yeah.
马丁·辛。
Martin Sheen.
马丁·辛。
Martin Sheen.
我的意思是，有点吓人。
I mean, kind of terrified.
但他拍摄那部电影时心脏病发了。
But he had but he had a heart attack while he was filming that.
我的意思是，你肯定不希望在奥运会上发生这种事。
I mean, you wouldn't want that to happen at the Olympics.
就是这样。
There you go.
就是这样。
There you go.
还有拳击和潘克拉辛，是的。
And and and the boxing and the Pancraton Yes.
这显然是我们没有的一个项目。
Which is obviously an event that we don't have.
拳击比赛，这些简直太暴力了。
The boxing, these are terrifyingly violent.
我读到过，有人在拳击比赛中去世时赢了。
So somebody won the Pancraton when they were dead, I read.
那是谁来着？
That they what's his name?
他的名字叫阿里克昂。
His name is Arrikeon.
阿里克昂。
Arrikeon.
来自阿卡迪亚。
From Arcadia.
他当时在勒住对手或者被对手勒住的时候，
He he was choking his opponent or being choked and
他折断了对手的骨头。
he broke his opponent.
是的
Yeah.
他被剪刀腿锁住，几乎窒息。
Was getting throttled in a scissor grip.
但在被勒住的同时，他折断了对手的脚趾之类的部位。
But while being throttled, he's broke his opponent's toe or something.
他的对手说：我认输。
His opponent said, I yield.
我认输之类的。
I yield or whatever.
而在
And at
那一刻，他死了。
that point, died.
所有人都喊道：万岁，里奇，赢了。
And everyone said, hurrah, Ricky, and there's one.
而且他死了这件事，是的。
And the fact that he's dead is Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，你根本没在说服人。
I mean you're really not selling.
你根本没在说服人。
You're not selling.
而且在很多方面，综合格斗选手甚至更可怕，因为除了挖眼睛或咬人之外，你几乎可以做任何事。
And in many ways the pan karatean is even more terrifying because on that you can literally do anything except gouge out your opponent's eye or bite him.
所以迈克·泰森会被取消资格。
So Mike Tyson would be disqualified.
但除此之外，你可以抓住他的睾丸，捏
But anything But you can get to you can grab his testicles, squeeze
他，我正要说的就是这个。
him what I was gonna say.
你可以做
You can do
可以，但不能咬人。
that, but not biting.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得他们的优先级搞错了，我觉得。
I think they've got their priorities wrong, I think.
那不会是一场精彩的表演吗？
Wouldn't that be a great spectacle?
我的意思是，你自己也是光着身子的。
Well, mean, you're naked yourself.
作为观众，你并不是光着身子的，对吧？
You're not naked yourself as a spectator, are you?
不是。
No.
你宿醉又晒伤了
You're hungover and sunburned
为了看电视。
for TV.
身上爬满苍蝇，但你没裸体。
Covered in flies, but you're not naked.
你正在看男人互相扭扯对方的睾丸。
And you're watching men twisting each other's testicles.
嗯，希望你是在看。
Well, you're hopefully you're watching.
我的意思是，观众人数非常多。
I mean, crowds are massive.
站位太靠后，根本看不清。
Staggers are too small to cope.
所以你站在别人身后，看着男人互相扭扯睾丸。
So you're standing behind other people watching men twisting their testicles.
得早点去才能占到好位置。
Have to get there very early to get vantage point.
当然，你还会面临一个问题：你怎么知道什么时候该去上厕所？
And then of course you've got the question of how you know, what do you do if you need to pee?
是的。
Yeah.
你得真的早点到。
You get there really
早。
early.
可以打扮一下。
Can dress
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
哦，天啊。
Oh, god.
最后的项目是穿着盔甲跑步。
Then the final event is you're running in armor.
所以你要穿上盔甲然后跑步。
So you dress up in armor and run.
这太荒谬了，毕竟在希腊的天气下，气温有38摄氏度或更高。
Well that's ludicrous because of course in the Greek weather 38 degrees centigrade or whatever.
但这时斯巴达人就派上用场了。
But that's where the sparfs come into their own.
对。
Right.
所以他们经常赢这项比赛，是吗？
So they often win that do they?
是的，我想是这样。
Yeah I suppose.
我想是吧。
I guess so.
然后所有人都走了。
And then everyone goes.
就这样了。
That's it.
到了第五天，获胜者们都会前往宙斯神像前，领取他们的橄榄枝花冠。
And the winners on the fifth day, they all go to the statue of Zeus and they're given their their olive crowns.
所以，是的，汤姆，这听起来太糟糕了。
So, yeah, Tom, that sounds awful.
你彻底粉碎了我对古奥运会的所有浪漫幻想。
And you have comprehensively shattered any romantic faith I had on the Ancient Olympics.
在我们转向一些伟大的奥运选手之前，我有个小问题。
So one quick question before we get on to some great Olympians.
希腊被罗马帝国吞并后，这项赛事仍在继续，非希腊人也开始参与。
It continues after Greece has been absorbed into the Roman Empire, but non Greeks are taking part.
对吧？
That's right, isn't it?
所以是罗马皇帝和其他罗马人。
So Roman emperors and other Romans.
这是普遍现象，还是只是像尼禄这样的大人物？
Now is that general or is it just big big names kind of VIBs?
基本上就是尼禄。
It's basically Nero.
但提比略不是也参加过吗？
But didn't Tiberius take part?
提比略有参加吗？
Did Tiberius have it?
他参加了马术比赛。
He takes part in the equestrian event.
但总的来说，比赛仍然以希腊人为主。
But by and large, it remains focused on on Greece.
所以它持续了一段时间，然后开始衰落
So it it goes on it goes into decline
是的
Yeah.
在罗马早期。
In the early Roman period.
苏拉，这位令人恐惧的将军，在公元前一世纪初率军进军罗马，洗劫了奥林匹亚，并用这些财富资助他在内战中的军队。
Sulla, who's the this kind of terrifying general, he marches on Rome and and kind of at the beginning of the first century BC, and he is he plunders Olympia and uses it to kind of fund his fund his army in a civil war.
是的
Yeah.
但奥古斯都非常重视它。
But then Augustus is very keen on it.
茱莉亚·戈登也非常重视它。
Julia Gordon is very keen on it.
尼禄对它极为热衷。
Nero is massively keen on it.
哈德良非常热衷于一切希腊文化，他对此非常推崇。
Hadrian, is hugely into everything Greek, he's very keen on it.
到了二世纪，它非常成功。
And it's, you know, it's very successful through the second century.
三世纪时，罗马帝国陷入内战，分崩离析。
Third century, you you get these Rome empire kind of implodes into civil war.
蛮族横扫而过，走向衰落。
Barbarians sweep across, goes into decline.
基本上到了四世纪，它已经奄奄一息了，我想最后一次记录的赛事是在三月左右。
And, basically, by the fourth century, it's it's on its last legs, and it it kind of ex I think the last the last recorded mention of the games is, I think, March, something like that.
是的。
Yeah.
是狄奥多西大帝吧？
Theodosius the Great, isn't it?
狄奥多西不是基本上禁止了它吗？
Theodosius doesn't Theodosius ban it, basically?
我不确定他禁止了它。
I'm not sure he bans it.
我认为，我的意思是，基本上已经没有市场需求了。
I I think it I mean, that's that's I think I think, basically, there's no market for it.
因为每个人都已经成了基督徒。
Because everybody has become Christian.
成了基督徒，所以没人再去看了。
Become Christian, so nobody's going for to yeah.
这进一步印证了那个观点，即它本质上是宗教性的，而非体育性的，或者说体育是宗教的一部分。
So that that sort of reinforces that point about it being religious rather than sporting or sporting being religious.
他们将其视为异教节日。
That they see it as a pagan festival.
你知道，苍蝇和裸体不足以抵消其异教宗教的内涵。
You know, the flies and the nudity aren't enough to compensate for the pagan religious connotations.
保罗在写给哥林多人的信中，就提到了地峡运动会。
Well, Paul, you know, when he writes to the Corinthians, makes reference to the Isthmian games.
所以他提到，作为基督徒，我们是在为一个更高的冠冕而竞争。
So he he says that, you know, as Christians, we we are competing for a higher crown.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
所以他对这些赛事的贬低在《新约》中就有体现。
So so so his dissing of the games is there in in the New Testament.
我的意思是，基本上，如果你不是在崇拜宙斯，那还有什么意义呢？
I mean, basically, yes, if you're not worshiping Zeus, then, what's the point?
那座巨大的宙斯雕像已经被运到了君士坦丁堡。
And the great statue of Zeus has been carted off to Constantinople.
你知道，它被带到那里，并不是作为宗教圣像，而是作为一种文化象征。
You know, it's it's been taken there not as not as a kind of religious icon, but as a kind of, you know, cultural symbol.
所以没错。
So Right.
根本不需要他们。
There's just no there's just no call for them.
所以给我讲讲吧，你有没有一些出色的奥运选手，或者一些奥运会的冷知识之类的？
And so tell tell me about some you've got some have you got some good Olympians up your sleeve or some Olympic facts or something to
是的。
Yeah.
那些能够流传下来的是拳击手和摔跤手。
So the the ones the ones who who tend to live on are boxers and wrestlers.
我想这是因为它们体现了赫拉克勒斯的精神。
I think because they kind of evoke the spirit of of Heracles.
事实上，有一位名叫提阿戈涅斯的人，据说他是赫拉克勒斯的儿子，来自爱琴海北部的萨索斯岛。
So there's there's actually, there's there's one who is said to be the son of of Heracles, a guy called Theagones, who comes from the island of Thassos in the North Of The Aegean.
他在上周关于雕像的几集中很有意义。
And he's interesting in the context of the the episodes that went out last week about statues.
对。
Yeah.
因为当他还是个小男孩时，非常热衷于捡起雕像并到处搬着走。
Because as as a young boy, was very keen on he'd he'd pick up statues and carry them around.
只是因为他力气太大了。
Just because he was so strong.
他那时候大概七岁左右。
He was kind of seven.
他一拿起雕像就会被责骂，然后不得不把雕像放回去。
He'd just pick up a statue and get told off and have to take it back.
当他去世后，他成为了一位伟大的英雄，人们为他制作了一座雕像，立在萨索斯岛的集市上。
And when he when he die he's a kind of great hero, and they make a statue of him, put it up in the in the the marketplace in Thassos.
这对另一位参加过奥运会却失败的萨索斯人来说简直是巨大的打击。
And this is awful for another Thassian who had gone to the Olympics and had failed.
于是这个人跑去对着雕像撒尿、涂鸦，并且肆意侮辱它。
And so this guy goes and kind of pisses and writes graffiti on the statue and generally insults it.
雕像对此非常生气，警告这个人说：你给我小心点。
And the statue gets really cross about this and kind of warns this guy off, says, you know, watch it.
他和这个人继续纠缠，一直继续下去。
And he and this guy carries on, carries on.
最终，雕像倒了下来，把他压死了。
So, eventually, the statue keels over and crushes him to death.
哇哦。
Wow.
这可是今天的一个预兆。
That's an omen for today's
誓言之像。
statue of oaths.
我的意思是，这里有个警告。
I mean, there's there's warning there.
被压死的那个人的儿子们对此非常愤怒，他们绑架了雕像，把它扔进了海里。
And the sons of the guy who's been crushed to death are so cross about this that they they abduct the statue and dump it in the sea.
从此以后，塔索斯的一切都出了问题。
And then everything goes wrong for Thasos.
太糟糕了。
Just terrible.
一切都出问题了。
Everything goes wrong.
于是他们派了一名使者去德尔斐，德尔斐说：你们忘了那些重要的誓言。
So they send an emissary to Delphi, and Delphi says, you know, you have great Theagones unremembered.
你们违背了那些誓言。
You have canceled Theagones.
哇。
Wow.
汤姆，要是我们进行雕像巡游前知道这些就好了。
I wish I'd known this before we did our statue walk, Tom.
这真是太棒了。
This is great stuff.
所以他们必须重新承认他。
So they have to uncancel him.
这就有点像把科尔斯顿从海湾里移出来一样。
So a bit like a bit like, getting Colston out of the bay.
他们得去他被丢弃的地方，把他打捞上来，重新放回他的基座上。
They have to go to where he's been dumped and and dredge him up and put him back up on his or or up on his pedestal.
所以要重新命名所有这些以威廉·格莱斯顿命名的学生宿舍，它们已经
So to rename all these William Gladstone halls of residence that have been
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yes.
所以，他确实挺有名的。
So so there's a there's a kind of he he's famous.
但我认为真正伟大的英雄、非常出名的是一个叫米洛的人，他来自克罗顿，就在西西里岛。
But I think the the the great hero, the really famous one is a guy called Milo who comes from Croton, which is in Sicily.
就是你之前提到的那些殖民地之一。
So one of those colonies that you were talking about.
他是个摔跤手。
He's a wrestler.
他连续赢了五次。
He wins five in a row.
你知道吗，这简直闻所未闻。
You know, I mean, that's kind of unheard of.
他力气大到能用一根绳子绕在头上，然后只需一发力，绳子就会被绷断。
And he is he's so strong that he can tie a cord around his head and then just kind of flex, and it just bursts the cord.
我觉得我也能做到。
I reckon I can do that.
这就是他的拿手绝活。
So that's his party trick.
我觉得我也能做到。
I reckon I can do that.
我的意思是，我不会在现场为《历史》的听众们表演，但我今晚稍后会试试。
I I I I mean, I'm not gonna do it live for the rest is history listeners to to watch, I'm but gonna try later tonight.
但你现在就可以做。
But you could do it now.
我会告诉你的。
I'll let you know.
如果你愿意，我可以描述一下。
I could I could describe it if if you want to
现在就做。
do now.
我手边没有绳子。
I have no I have no cord to hand.
哦，真遗憾。
Oh, that's a shame.
真是太遗憾了。
What a shame.
但他还有一套为英雄设计的饮食。
But also, he had he had a diet for heroes.
所以你知道他的精英运动员饮食吗？
So do know his elite sports diet?
我猜是猪肉，根据这个播客的内容来看。
I probably pork, judging by the the contents of the this podcast.
每天二十磅肉。
20 pounds of meat a day.
二十磅？
20 pounds?
每天二十磅面包，两加仑葡萄酒。
20 pounds of bread a day, two gallons of wine.
哇。
Wow.
但他有一个非常有趣的运动员之死。
But he had a he had a very entertaining sports death.
所以继续说。
So Go on.
他当时在外面，看到一棵树被劈开以便晾干。
He he was out, and he saw a a kind of tree that had been split to to dry it out.
树的两半之间用一些木桩撑着。
And there were kind of pegs holding the the two halves apart.
他觉得这很有趣，于是把木桩拔出来，把手伸了进去。
And he thought just to funny, take the pegs out and put his hand in.
他把手伸进去后，树的两半突然合拢夹住了他的手，他怎么也抽不出来。
And he put he put his hand in, and the two halves of the tree kind of slapped around it, and he couldn't pull his hand out.
好吧。
Okay.
于是他被卡在树里，最后被一群狼吃掉了。
So he was stuck with this tree, and he got eaten by a pack of wolves.
哇。
Wow.
这可不是个体面的死法，对吧？
That is that's no way to go, is it?
不。
No.
所以他所有的力量都无济于事。
So all his strength availed him naught.
本可以
Could've
这对他毫无帮助。
It availed him naught.
这对他有用。
It availed him.
所以，这种可怕的死亡方式，正是这些奥运人物具有英雄色彩的另一种体现。
And so and so it kind of horrible deaths is is another way in which these Olympic figures are kind of heroic.
你知道，他们是希腊意义上的英雄，而不是像马库斯·拉什福德那样的英雄。
You know, they are heroes in the Greek sense rather than in the kind of, you know, Marcus Rashford sense.
是的。
Yeah.
所以
So
还有另一个叫波利达摩斯的人，他是潘克拉辛项目的伟大冠军，曾徒手杀死狮子，抓住公牛并扯下它们的蹄子。
there is there's there's another one, Polydamus, who was a great kind of winner in the Pankration, who killed lions with his bet killed lions with his bare hands, who he would catch a bulls and pull off their their hooves.
这简直是恶劣的行为。
That's just bad behavior.
他和一些朋友在洞穴里。
And and he they he was with some friends in a cave.
发生了一次地震。
There was an earthquake.
他撑住了洞穴，让所有人都逃了出去，而他自己却被压死了。
He held the cave up while they all got out, and they got crushed to death.
那就是他。
So that was him.
那就是
That's that's
最顶级的英雄，对吧？
very top hero, isn't it?
是的。
Yeah.
这确实相当英勇。
That is that's actually quite heroic.
但最阴险的那个，也是被德尔斐神谕正式称为英雄的人，是一个叫克莱奥梅德斯的家伙。
But the most the most sinister one and the one who is literally proclaimed a hero by the Delphic Oracle is a a guy called Cleomedes.
而且，他又是一个在比赛中杀死对手的人。
And, again, he's another he's another of these guy who kills his opponent in the in the games.
他因为这个行为被裁判取消资格，因为杀死对手被视为太过分了。
And he gets disqualified by this for the judges because killing your opponent is seen as being too much.
是的。
Yeah.
他
He
他因为被取消资格而发疯了。
he goes mad with this disqualification.
他回到了自己的家乡岛屿。
He goes back to, his home island.
你知道他在那里做了什么吗？
And do you know what he does there?
我不知道。
He I don't.
他推倒了一所学校，里面有60个男孩，全部被砸死了。
He pulls down a school, and there are 60 boys in it, and they all get killed.
天哪。
Oh my god.
因此，家长们对此自然非常愤怒，追着他满街跑。
And so the parents are understandably cross about this, and they chase him through the streets.
但由于他是奥运会冠军，跑得非常快。
But because he's an Olympian, he can run very fast.
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