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《重看经典》由The Ringer播客网络出品，您可以在那里收听肖恩·芬内西的宏观视角。
The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennessey.
是的。
Yeah.
您还可以收听《微观视角》。
You can find the watch The small picture.
由克里斯·瑞安主持。
With Chris Ryan.
最近你在看什么剧，嗯？
What are you watching these days, Well,
我们在看《深渊》。
We're watching The Pit.
我们在看《七王国之夜》。
We're watching Night of the Seven Kingdoms.
《行业》只是一部堕落的剧集。
Industry is just a depraved show.
它真的
It really
是的。
is.
它非常具有性张力。
It's really It's sexually volatile.
这是有史以来最具张力的剧集之一。
One of the most volatile shows that's ever been created.
我得说，《七王国之夜》，A+。
I gotta say Night of the Seven Kingdoms, A plus.
是的，老兄。
Yeah, man.
我玩得很开心。
I'm I'm having a great time.
我已经十年没这么享受过一部电视剧了。
I haven't enjoyed a TV show like that in ten years.
昨晚那集简直是本垒打，如果这周一下播的话。
Home home run episode last night, if this is going up on Monday.
你知道还有什么周一下播吗？
You know what else is going up on Monday?
接下来是《金眼睛》。
It's a golden Golden eye is next.
《金眼睛》，1995年，詹姆斯·邦德，皮尔斯·布鲁斯南。
Goldeneye, 1995, James Bond, Pierce Brosnan.
按时代划分的最棒邦德电影。
Best Bond movies by era.
这是我的榜单。
Here's my list.
《金手指》、《太空城》、《金眼睛》、《皇家赌场》、《择日而亡》。
Goldfinger, Spy Who Loved Me, Goldeneye, Casino Royale, Fight Me.
你觉得这跟演员没关系吗？
Don't think this is for the actors?
我认为这四部是代际上最棒的。
Just those I think are the four generationally the best.
就像乔丹、迈克尔·乔丹、科比那样。
That's like the Doctor J, Michael Jordan, Kobe.
你是王室秘密服务的人吗？
Are you a Majesty's Secret Service person?
我不认同其中任何一部。
I don't think I agree with any of those.
是的。
Yeah.
这就是我为什么说来打一架的原因。
That's what that's why I said fight me.
这很有趣。
That's interesting.
嗯，对啊。
Well Yeah.
因为你喜欢《007：大破天幕杀机》。
Because you like Skyfall.
《大破天幕杀机》是我最喜欢的克雷格版007。
Skyfall is my favorite Craig Bond.
我觉得《俄罗斯之恋》是我最喜欢的康纳利风格。
I think From Russia With Love is my favorite Connery vibe.
那可能是
That's probably
最棒的康纳利。
the best Connery.
我喜欢《雷霆万钧》，因为里面的道具。
I like You Only Live Twice for the gadgets.
那是日本那一部。
That's the Japan one.
对。
Right.
那部挺有趣的。
That one's fun.
我对《太空城》情有独钟。
I have a soft spot for Moonraker.
《太空城》虽然口碑很差，但我超爱它，因为我十岁的时候看过，当时觉得大白鲨是我见过最吓人的人，而且它简直像一部《星球大战》风格的恶搞片。
So Moonraker, critically reviled, but I loved it too because I saw it when I was 10, I just thought Jaws was the scariest person I've and plus it was like a Star Wars kind of parody almost.
它就像一部《星球大战》的模仿作品，非常荒诞，但特别好玩。
It's like a it's like a Star Wars rip off, and it's really silly, but it's very fun.
我觉得《太空城》会是邦德系列的终结。
I thought Moonraker was gonna be the end of Bond.
我的意思是，当然，当我看这些电影时，我就觉得，这肯定得在太空中结束了。
I mean, obviously I didn't like, when I was watching them, I was just like, this this has to be where it ends, in space.
那你最喜欢哪一部？
So what's your favorite?
《007：大破天幕杀机》是我最喜欢的詹姆斯·邦德电影。
Skyfall is my favorite James Bond movie.
《皇家赌场》真的很棒，有趣的是你的列表里有两部马丁·坎贝尔执导的电影。
Casino Royale is darn good, and it's interesting that you've got two Martin Campbell movies on your list.
我知道。
I know.
是的。
Yeah.
我知道。
I know.
我之前没完全意识到。
I didn't fully realize
你这是按时代来排的。
that You're doing it by era.
我是按荒诞到严肃的程度来排的。
I'm doing it by silliness to seriousness.
在我看来，《黄金眼》正好在我理想的位置。
And to me, Golden Eye is right where I want it to be.
是的。
Yeah.
它没有过于荒诞夸张，但也不像后期克雷格的一些作品那样充满创伤感。
It's not too goofy in camp, but it is not as, like, trauma Bond as some of the late period Craig stuff.
所以我认为它是最具重看价值、最有趣的邦德电影之一。
And that's why I think it's, like, one of the more rewatchable and one of the more, like, entertaining Bonds.
你对007系列有什么看法？
What's your relationship with the Bond series?
多年以来我一直不是007粉丝。
Was not a Bond guy for years and years.
我小时候没接触过这个系列。
Wasn't raised with it.
我想我们之前讨论《皇家赌场》的时候提到过一点。
I think we talked about it a little bit when we talked about Casino Royale.
我不是英国文化爱好者。
I'm not an Anglophile.
我从来没读过原著小说。
I never read the books.
我觉得这是我看过的第一部邦德电影，但我不记得自己当时特意跑去看了其他布鲁斯南主演的邦德片。
And I think I real I this is the first Bond movie I ever saw, but I don't know that I, like, raced out to see the other Brosnan Bonds.
真正让我爱上邦德系列的是克雷格的电影，之后我才回头去探索和了解以前的作品。
And it was the Craig movies that really got me into it and then digging back in and exploring.
多年来，我对邦德的兴趣越来越浓，尤其是在克雷格时代结束前后，我参与了很多关于邦德的讨论。
And over the years, I've gotten more interested in it, especially doing a lot of conversations about Bond as the Craig era ended.
但我觉得在过去三四年里，我真正开始欣赏这个系列的魅力。
But I think I've really come to appreciate its charms in the last three or four years.
经常讨论邦德、不断学习，这确实很有帮助。
It's been helpful, you know, to be talking about it regularly and to learn more.
这是一部伟大的电影历史。
It's it's great movie history.
六十多年来，这个系列发生了太多有趣的事情，我觉得特别有意思。
There's so much interesting stuff that has, you know, happened across sixty years of the franchise that I find fun.
但我可不是什么邦德专家。
But I'm not I'm not like a Bondologist.
我对它并不了解所有细节。
I don't know everything about it.
所以实际上，我算是有点置身事外。
So it's actually I'm a little bit on the outside of it.
我也是这样的。
That's how that's where I am as well.
因为从小长大，罗杰·摩尔版的邦德大概是我最钟爱的，因为我们曾在影院看过那些电影。
Because even growing up, the but Roger Moore was probably my peak bond because we saw those movies in theater.
但那些电影和西部片一样，似乎总在播放。
But they were just those movies and westerns just seemed like they were on all the time.
是的。
Yeah.
而且我接触它们的方式，就是小时候在不同时间随意地看上几部。
The And I've that's how I kinda my experience with them was just jumping into them as a kid during different parts.
TBS的邦德电影马拉松是我童年时的固定节目，但
The TBS Bond Marathon was a staple of my But
甚至更早之前，你们当地费城的电视频道播电影时是哪个频道？
even before that, when it was, like, the low what was your local Philly channel that showed movies?
哦，像是Mid Seventeen这样的频道。
Oh, channel like Mid Seventeen did.
对，就是这样。
Like, yeah.
我们有2956频道。
We had 2956.
是的。
Yeah.
那时候他们总是播放邦德电影。
And it was just they had Bond movies on.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我记得有时候我之所以无法准确辨认出具体的007电影，是因为我记忆中的那些电影，是在夏天一整天播放九个小时，我走进来时看到他正和双胞胎发生关系。
I mean, I remember I think one of the reasons why sometimes I can't quite identify specific Bond movies is because my memory of them is being on for nine hours during a day in the summer and coming in and being like, oh, like, he's having sex with twins.
哦，对，就是这样。
Oh, like Yeah.
他从热气球上跳了下来。
He jumped out of a hot air balloon.
对，没错。
Like Yeah.
这让你觉得这种行为很正常。
And that normalized that behavior for you
我当时就想，是啊。
going It's like, yeah.
我想，这就是间谍该做的事。
I guess this is what espionage is.
不过，我真的非常喜欢这些电影。
But, yeah, my, I I really enjoy these movies.
我觉得我对这些电影的喜爱程度刚刚好。
I think that they are I I, like, appreciate them exactly the right amount.
有一次，我不太记得我们是什么时候聊到这个的，但我开始对一些关于邦德的理论感兴趣，比如有人试图为电影中的所有角色构建一个完整的文本体系。
One time, I think whether it was I can't remember when we talked about this, but I was, like, starting to get into, like, some of the theories around Bond and, like, people trying to basically create a a text for the entire characters in the films.
我觉得这其实并不支持这种观点。
And I was like, it doesn't really support this.
你没必要想得那么复杂。
You don't really have to think that hard about it.
我觉得，每部电影里的感情线都应该是独立的，不必纠结于这个角色是否由多位演员扮演过，他们接下这个角色后就必须成为詹姆斯·邦德，是的。
Like, I think it helps to just have, like, a one and done for each movie relationship and not worry about whether or not this is actually the character has been played by many men who have to become James Bond when they get this job and Yeah.
在我成长的整个过程中，康纳利的影子始终笼罩着这个系列。
But there was a big Connery shadow over this franchise the entire time I grew up.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这几乎就像现在人们谈论NBA时那样，觉得乔丹时代或者巴克利那一代才是最好的。
And it it was almost like how people talk about the NBA now, where it's like it was better in the Jordan era or, like, the Barkley guys on inside.
它一直像是在之前那样
It was always like Before
邦德系列要完蛋了吗？
the bond was tanking?
是的
Yeah.
就像是，嗨。
Was like, hi.
是的
Yeah.
很棒。
Great.
是的
Yeah.
但那时候就像是，哦，是啊。
But it was like, oh, yeah.
我的意思是，随便吧。
I mean, whatever.
它在康纳利时期达到了巅峰。
It peaked with Connery.
我永远觉得康纳利是最好的邦德。
I'll never Connery is the best Bond ever.
然后我记得当他以年长一些的形象回归饰演詹姆斯·邦德时，那可是个大事件。
And then I remember when he came back as kinda older James Bond, that was a big deal.
罗杰·摩尔时期，似乎人们开始反感了。
Roger Moore, it seems like people turned on.
这真的
Does that
《铁金刚勇破间谍网》？
Never Say Never?
哪个邦德？等等。
Which Bond Wait.
1983年康纳
It was 1983 when Conner
回来了。
comes back.
康纳在1971年出演《女王密使》后重返银幕。
When Conner comes back in '71 after taking on Her Majesty's Secret Service off.
是的。
Yeah.
他回来出演了《007之巡弋飞弹》。
He comes back for Lazam Duck.
参与了那部电影。
In on that one.
飞弹很硬。
Duck tough.
他后来出演了《金刚钻》对吧。
He comes in for for diamonds are forever Right.
1971年，然后他十二年后又回来了。
In '71, and then he comes back twelve years later.
就是那一次。
That was the one.
他回来这件事非常重要。
And it was a big deal that he was back.
而且他
But And he's
1971年和1983年，这个漏洞太明显了。
got in '71 and '83, the rug is going so hard.
这简直是电影史上最明显的漏洞。
Like, it's the most obvious rug in movie history.
这挺搞笑的。
Well, it's funny.
现在所有这些电影都在Netflix上，你可以回过头去看，会发现他脑子里就像装着第十五洞的球道一样。
All these movies are on Netflix now, and you could go back now and watch in AD, and it just looks like he has the the fairway from the fifteenth hole in his head.
这简直难以置信。
It's just incredible.
在1983年的那部电影里太疯狂了。
It's crazy in the eighty three one.
确实如此。
It really is.
就像是23个女孩都在说：嘿。
And it's just like 23 chicks just being like, hey.
嘿。
Hey.
最近怎么样？
How's it going?
他太优雅了。
He's so suave.
是的。
Yeah.
我们觉得，随着这个系列的发展，《碟中谍》和《007：择日而亡》是否削弱了这个系列？
Do we think, as this as this franchise evolved, do we think Mission Impossible and Born cut the legs out of this franchise?
我觉得这么说很公平。
I think that's a fair thing to say.
我同意。
I I do.
是的。
Yes.
我同意。
I do.
我认为，当你具体看《黄金眼》时，会发现其中的特技表演非常出色，而《碟中谍》正是接过了这个接力棒，并不断推进。
Pretty I think when you look specifically at GoldenEye and you see the kind of stunt work that is being done in GoldenEye, which is excellent, that's they Mission Impossible grabbed the mantle and kinda ran with it.
《碟中谍》第一部在一年后上映，而汤姆·克鲁斯此后三十年来每次都不断提升标准。
And Mission Impossible one comes out one year later, and Tom Cruise has just spent the last thirty years upping the ante every time.
这有点儿，我认为这也是克雷格版电影变得更多聚焦于心理层面、英国的历史创伤以及邦德角色的原因之一。
And it's a little and I think that's one of the reasons why the Craig movies became so much more about the psychology and the kind of the damage history of England and the Bond character Yeah.
而且它们彼此交织，因为它们实在无法再进一步了。
And the way that they're intertwined because they kinda couldn't go too much further.
你提到《太空城》感觉像是终点，因为他们已经多次将它推到了极限。
To your point about, like, Moonraker felt like the end because they had pushed it so far so many times.
这也很有趣，因为我想我在《谍影重重》重看节目里提到过，当时有一种被称为‘诺基亚浪潮’的类型，是一种那个时代充满科技感的惊悚片，而《碟中谍》和间谍片完美契合，比如那些硬核笔记本电脑之类的。
It's interesting too because I think I mentioned this when we did a Bourne movie on rewatchables, but there is this, like it's since been called, like, Nokia Wave or Nokia Wave, which is like a kind of techno friendly thriller from this era that the Mission Impossible and porn movies really perfect with, you know, like the hard case laptops and, like Yeah.
早期的监控技术，还有黑客之类的东西。
Early surveillance and, like, hackers and stuff like that.
我觉得这部电影里有一些关于这些的有趣内容。
And I think there's some fun stuff with that in this movie.
但邦德的Q是那种会爆炸的笔。
But Bond is is Q, and Q is this pen will explode.
他不是那种‘我在黑入系统’的人。
He's not like, I'm hacking.
他不是那种‘我们能做’的人。
He's not like, we can do
是 gadget 和美女
It's gadgets and girls
还有
and a
几场追逐戏。
couple of chasings.
是的。
Yes.
就像伊森·亨特总是用卡片那样。
Like the way that Ethan Hunt constantly It was cards.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我们现在还不知道会怎样，因为他们已经完成了克雷格这一阶段，显然接下来会有一位新的邦德，而且丹尼斯·维伦纽瓦正在拍摄一部新片。
I mean, we don't know what it's gonna be now because they did do this Craig run, now there's gonna be a new Bond, obviously, that Denis Villeneuve was making a film of.
我们还不知道会是谁。
We don't know who it is.
我觉得是卡勒姆·特纳。
I think it's Callum Turner.
看起来像是卡勒姆·特纳。
It seems like Callum Turner.
但问题是，他们打算怎么重新塑造这个角色？邦德已经历过第四次重塑——布鲁斯南版，第五次重塑——克雷格版。
But, like, what are they gonna do to reinvent having this was the fourth reinvention of Bond with Brosnan, the fifth the fifth reinvention of Braun Bond.
而第七次重塑将会非常具有挑战性。
And number seven is gonna be really challenging.
是的。
Yeah.
你和克雷格版的邦德有什么关系？
What's your relationship with Bond, Craig?
电子游戏。
The video game.
1997年，我记得我买了一台N64。
1997, I think I got an n 64.
我肯定我
I'm sure I
在谈论《金眼》
was talking the Golden
游戏发布了。
Eye game came out.
是的。
Yeah.
我知道皮尔斯·布鲁斯南演了邦德，还有那个《亡命天涯》的演员。
I knew Pierce Brosnan was Bond and the missus Doubtfire guy.
对。
Yes.
我记得那感觉有点奇怪。
And I remember that being kind of weird.
但我从来没看过布鲁斯南主演的邦德电影。
But I never saw the actual Brosnan Bond.
我最早看的是克雷格版的。
The first ones I saw were Craig.
但那个电子游戏太棒了。
But the video game was awesome.
它有史上最酷的音乐。
It had, like, the coolest music ever.
我记得《黄金眼》里暂停时的背景音乐，007那段，简直好得过分。
The pause music, I remember, on GoldenEye, double o seven was, like, way better than it needed to be.
很棒的游戏。
Great game.
这是这部电影持久影响力的体现。
It's it's the enduring legacy of the movie.
对吧？
Right?
意思是，我们就这样结束了。
Mean, that's how we ended
我们做这个是为了重温经典。
up doing this for rewatchables.
我们刚才在聊《黄金眼》这款游戏。
We were talking about the GoldenEye game.
还有《完美暗杀》，我不确定它们是不是基于同样的游戏引擎之类的，但是，
This and and Perfect Dark, I don't know if it's built on, like, the same game engine or whatever, but,
这基本上就像是一部精神续作。
like It's basically like a spiritual sequel.
这基本上是一部精神续作，而且这款游戏有
It's basically a spiritual sequel, and this game had
它是在电影上映两年后推出的，
It came out two years after the movie,
而且它支持多人模式。
And by the it had multiplayer.
所以你可以和朋友坐在一起，抽点东西，听着武当帮的音乐，我就这么干过，一玩就是八个小时的《黄金眼》。
So you could sit there with your friends and get stoned and listen to Wu Tang Clan, which I did, and play Goldeneye for eight hours.
再说吧，
And say,
比如，我要把一颗核弹放在你腿上。
like, I'm gonna put a nuclear bomb on your lap.
再见。
Goodbye.
打开Rayquad。
Put on Rayquad.
这真是我一生中最美好的时光，说实话。
This was the best time of my life, honestly.
就像，那个，
Like, the the
我这辈子最开心的时候。
happiest I've ever been.
只是制作了一些DVD。
Just created DVDs.
这真的难以置信。
This really was unbelievable.
是的。
Yeah.
你就可以做些傻事，还不用被评判。
You just do dumb shit and not be judged.
那真是一段很有趣的时光。
It was a really fun time.
我记忆犹新。
I remember it well.
它发布的时候我还是个青少年，而我们家并没有N64。
I was a teenager when it came out, and I was we were not an n 64 household.
我们有的是PlayStation。
We had PlayStation.
所以
And so
你有GameCube。
You had GameCube.
我小时候是世嘉Genesis玩家，后来变成了PlayStation玩家。
We had to I was a Sega Genesis kid, and then I was a PlayStation kid.
所以我们去我朋友戴夫·布朗家，做了同样的事，尽管那时我们才15岁。
And so we went to my friend Dave Brown's house and did the same thing even though we were only 15.
我从来没玩过这个游戏，因为我以为它在美化枪支。
I never played this game because I thought it glorified guns.
那不是真的。
That's not true
完全不是。
at all.
你玩过这个游戏吗？
Did
你玩过这个游戏吗？
you ever play this game?
我玩过。
I did.
不过我以前更常玩体育类游戏。
I was I used to play more sports games, though.
好的。
Okay.
我总是玩《Techmo Bowl》、《Madden》、高尔夫游戏和冰球游戏。
I was always, like, Techmo Bowl and Madden and and the golf game and hockey.
我一直都偏向这类游戏。
Like, I was always gravitated that way.
我觉得这款游戏如此重要的首要原因——可能还有其他几个原因——在于它是第一个面向主流非玩家群体的第一人称射击游戏。
I feel like the reason this game is so important, the number one reason, there are probably a few reasons, is it's the first mainstream non gamer first person shooter.
像《毁灭战士》早在那之前就已经存在多年了。
Like, Doom had existed for years before this.
我在PC上玩过。
Played it on a PC.
对吧？
Right?
在电脑上玩过。
Played it on a computer.
也许之前有过主机版本，但我觉得没有。
And maybe there had been some console version of it, but I don't think before this.
然后《VirtuaCop》也是
And then VirtuaCop was also
一款游戏。
a game.
这个。
This.
它被认为是第一款优秀的第一人称射击游戏，同时也具有多人游戏功能。
It's it's credited as being the first good first person shooter game, but also with the multiplayer thing.
对。
Right.
它基本上就是所有后续游戏的起点。
It basically, like, this is ground zero for all the games that came after.
是的。
Yeah.
而且我记得，那时候它确实有种非常真实的触感，那种邦德式的环球冒险兴奋感，比如你会玩到一个俄罗斯关卡。
There's also, like I remember it it kinda did have, at that time, it felt very tactile, the globetrotting excitement of Bond because, like, you would play there was, like, a Russia level.
还有一个潜艇关卡。
There was, like, a submarine level.
你还会在里维埃拉游玩。
There was like, you play on the Riviera.
就像，据我记忆所及，我的前额，比如，
Like, there was you you know, to the extent that my frontal, like,
音乐是由此成型的。
the music was formed.
我当时就觉得，这真是太棒了。
I was like, this is really amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
音乐太棒了。
The music was awesome.
他们说这款游戏售出了超过八百万份，是任天堂64平台上第三畅销的游戏。
So they said it sold over 8,000,000 copies, and it was the third biggest Nintendo 64 game ever.
八百万份实际上意味着大约三千万，因为想想看，很多二十多岁的男生住在一起，或者大学生们很可能凑钱买了一套。
8,000,000 copies really means, like, 30,000,000 because think of how many people probably guys in their twenties living together or guys in college who probably pooled money together to buy a copy.
如果有什么例子的话，我们肯定会听说。
If there's any example sure, we'll hear about it.
一个电影改编游戏比原电影更成功的例子。
Of a game based on a movie where the game is bigger than the movie.
或者拥有更长久的影响力。
Or had, like, a longer legacy.
是的。
Yeah.
他说，即使到现在，我还查了一些人们写的关于史上最棒电子游戏的文章。
He says, even now, I was looking up some of, like, the best video game ever pieces that people write.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
这些文章里都有它。
It's in all of them.
是的。
Yeah.
它简直就是元老级的存在。
It's it's just like an OG.
必须得把它列进去。
It has to be put in.
这可以说是电子游戏史上的一个转折点。
It's like a turning point in in in video games.
我的游戏经历基本上止于2005年，但这款游戏正好处于中间位置，因为我记得大概是1990年左右买的NES。
I mean, my video game experience basically ends in 2005, but this is probably the right dead set in the middle, because I think I got an NES in, like, 1990.
我每个15岁的男性朋友都天天想玩这个游戏。
And it definitely every single 15 year old guy friend I had wanted to play this game every day.
我记不起来在大学时除了《Madden》之外还有过这样的体验。
And I can't remember other than Madden in college having that experience.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
另一件事是，他们终于请到了皮尔斯·布鲁斯南来演邦德。
The other thing with this was they finally got Pierce Brosnan's bond.
我记得当时这就像蒂姆想让他从《Remington Steel》脱身的伊朗人质危机一样。
And I remember that being, like, the Iranian hostage crisis for Tim trying to get him out of Remington Steel.
嗯。
Mhmm.
从1986年开始的。
Started in '86.
他们在达顿之前就试图签下他。
They tried to get him before Dalton.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
《雷明顿·斯蒂尔》在1982年播出，我偶尔会看，因为我当时暗恋斯蒂芬妮·津布什。
Remington Steele hits in 1982, a show that I watched every once in a while because I I had a crush on Stephanie Zinbush.
那是1982年我暗恋的190个人之一。
It was one of the 190 people I had a crush on back in 1982.
你能解释一下《雷明顿·斯蒂尔》是什么吗？
Can you explain what Remington Steele was?
那是一部间谍剧，他们有点像一起工作。
He it was like a spy show, and they kinda worked together.
那有点像是心与心的角落之类的剧，但当时很明显，这个家伙会成为下一个詹姆斯·邦德。
It was a little on the heart versus heart corner or whatever that show was, but he was just so clear that, like, this guy's gonna be the next James Bond.
他满足了詹姆斯·邦德的所有条件，当1986年邦德角色终于开放时，他本打算接演，但这时剧集又被续订了。
He checked every James Bond box, and then when James Bond finally became available in 'eighty six, and that he was gonna do it, and then they renewed the show.
这简直就像一个真正的好莱坞故事。
And it was like a an actual, like, Hollywood story.
是的。
Yeah.
这个家伙就是想演邦德。
-Like, this guy wants to do Bond.
他担任了《雷明顿·斯蒂尔》的特技演员。
He served as Remington Steele stunt.
但那时他连续拍了五年剧集，根本脱不了身。
But at that time, he did shows for five years, and you couldn't get out.
就这样结束了。
And that was it.
所以他不得不放弃了这个机会。
So he had to pass it up.
他们最终选择了蒂莫西·道尔顿。
They ended up going to, Timothy Dalton.
讽刺的是，道尔顿之所以不像后来的布鲁斯南那样被人们视为邦德，很多人评论说，他演的《金枪人》更像道尔顿版的邦德，因为道尔顿一直在等剧本，等了又等。
And ironically, the reason Dalton's not this bond, and a lot of people have commented on Gold and I feeling more like a Dalton bond than what would come from Brosnan after, is because Dalton was waiting for the script and waiting for the script.
当剧本终于送来时，他说：‘好吧，我来演这个。’
And then when the script finally came, he's like, oh, I'll do this one.
他们说：‘我们不能只跟你签一部电影。’
They were like, we can't sign you up for just one.
如果你想演，那就得签五年，或者三部电影，反正就是这么个条件。
So if you wanna do it, it's gonna be, like, another five years or another three movies or whatever it was gonna be.
然后他就说：‘我实在没法接受。’
And then he was just like, I can't And
布鲁斯南那时正好有空。
Brosnan was available at
就在那时。
that point.
而布罗斯南当时有空。
And Brosnan was available.
是的。
Yes.
六年 hiatus。
Six year hiatus.
他们之间有一些法律纠纷。
They had some legal disputes.
我的意思是，这
Well, I mean It's the
布罗科利家族对战米高梅，他们搞了一些烂摊子。
Broccoli family versus MGM, and they put in, like, soft shit.
我的意思是，这是好莱坞历史上一个重大时刻，米高梅被其收购方严重欺诈，随后被转入一家瑞士银行或法国银行的控股公司。
I mean, that's a huge moment in Hollywood history where MGM is basically defrauded by its acquirer, and then it goes into a holding company from a Swiss bank or French bank.
对。
Yeah.
然后，一家主要的电影公司正处于这种所有权不明的过渡期。
And then one of the major movie studios is is in this kind of, like, limbo ownership period.
而詹姆斯·邦德正好处于这家公司的核心位置。
And, of course, James Bond is right at the center of that studio.
亚马逊最初收购米高梅的根本原因，正是邦德系列所带来的终极价值。
It's the reason why ultimately Amazon bought MGM in the first place is the ultimate value changed mine.
布罗科利家族。
The broccolis.
是的。
Yeah.
与现在相比，那是电影业的一个难以置信的时期。
It's an unbelievable time for movies compared to now.
我当时觉得我对这一切有很深的了解，虽然我并没有真正参与，因为《Premier》杂志会
I felt like I had so much awareness of this while I'm not because Premier Magazine would
刊登相关文章
be writing
关于这一点，似乎每家公司都在破产、试图破产、被欺诈，或者相反，比如城堡岩突然崛起，或者米拉麦克斯。
And about it every it seemed like every company was going bankrupt or trying to or being defrauded or or there or there would be the reverse, like Castle Rock coming out of nowhere or Miramax.
我想知道，如果我们每个月只读一篇关于华纳兄弟、Netflix、派拉蒙的精彩文章，而不是每天都有大量相关报道，我们对这些公司的看法会如何不同。
I wonder how our relationship to stuff like Warner Bros, Netflix, Paramount would be if we read one great piece about it a month rather than, like, even words about it every single day.
或者它
Or it
只是就像
was just like
有一本书，叫《击中就跑》。
there was a book, like, hit and run.
是的。
Yes.
你知道，它完整地讲述了这个工作室那个时代的全部故事。
You know, where it was just like, here's the total story of this era at this studio.
但我们没有这样的内容，它不会以这种方式出现。
But we don't it doesn't come like that.
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我们有马特·贝尔inger这个小镇吗？
Have we have the town of Matt Bellinger.
但我
But I
我完全明白你的意思。
know exactly what you mean.
我感觉我对这些东西有了更
I felt like I had, like, a more
更好的理解。
Like a better grasp.
一种更紧密的联系，因为我觉得，太棒了。
Relationship to this stuff because I was like, cool.
一篇精彩的文章解释了为什么这位演员无法摆脱合同之类的。
Great article explaining why this actor can't get out of a contract or something.
但不像彼得·古伯
But not like Peter Guber
约翰·彼得斯接管了索尼，这件事后来成了书。
and John Peters took over Sony, which became the book.
但当他们实时报道这些事时，每隔三个月就会冒出另一个疯狂的故事，说这些家伙简直在车库点钱烧着玩，还用喷灯烧钱。
But when they were covering that in real time, it would just be, like, every three months, there would be another crazy story about, like, these guys are fucking just setting money on fire in a garage and blowtorching it.
你只能感叹，哇。
You're like, wow.
这事就发生在它身上。
This is on it.
对吧？
Right?
她写了那些文章。
She was writing those articles.
但是
But
然后就是任何发布会或首映，但有时是《纽约杂志》，但那确实要等很久。
then would be any fair or premiere, but it was sometimes New York Magazine, but it would really be worth a while.
行业刊物。
Trades.
对吧？
Right?
但那时候人们还不在线上阅读行业刊物。
But people weren't reading the trades online then.
是的。
Yeah.
然后你还有那些特别聪明的案例，我们之前在重看节目里聊过Caracao，他们当时制作了所有西尔维斯特·史泰龙、施瓦辛格和范·达梅的电影，然后突然间他们就垮了。
And then you had, like, even, like, the smart like, we talked on rewatchables before about Caracao, which was doing all, like, the Stallone and Schwarzenegger and Van Damme, and then then all of a sudden, they went on.
我从未像对卡梅隆执导的《蜘蛛侠》那样兴奋过，那部电影由Carolco投资，但最终从未问世。
I've never been more excited for a movie than James Cameron's Spider Man funded by Carolco, and it never happened.
但我记得当年13岁时读到这些消息，内心深受震撼。
But I remember reading about that and being just put that inside me when I was 13 years old.
所以多年来，邦德系列的工作一直很棒，即使这个系列的兴趣似乎每四部电影左右就会下滑，但他们总能巧妙地制造出一种‘交易截止日’般的氛围，是的。
So this great job over the course of the years with Bond where it's like, even as maybe the interest in the franchise wanes, which it seems to every four movies or whatever, they're just really good at creating a trade deadline of, like Yeah.
我们该选谁来扮演邦德？
Who who are we gonna pick up to play Bond?
这最终演变成了一件比电影本身更大的事。
And it turns into something that's bigger than the movies themselves.
那他们当时选择了什么？
Which was why what did the what did they go for?
这个系列选择了什么？
What did the franchise go for?
亚马逊收购了它。
Amazon bought it.
对吧？
Right?
我不知道收购的最终金额是多少。
Well, I don't know what the final number was for the buyout.
我的意思是，几十亿美元吧。
I mean, you know, bill billions of dollars.
那好吧
Well, then
他们必须收购
they had to buy
布罗科利斯家族。
out brock the Broccolis.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
对的。
Yeah.
据我回忆，他们为收购米高梅总共支付了80亿美元，但米高梅显然并不拥有詹姆斯·邦德。
Well, it was like they paid $8,000,000,000, as I recall, for MGM total, but they MGM doesn't own James Bond, obviously.
布罗科利斯家族
The Broccolis
这部分是单独的家庭协议。
family separate deal for that.
一年前就为这个定了。
A year ago for that.
据称，这部分原因只是因为布罗科利家族对亚马逊感到厌倦，不喜欢亚马逊。
Part of that, apparently, was just because the Broccolis were just sick of dealing with Amazon and didn't like Amazon.
但是
But
亚马逊希望制作《邦德女郎》这样的精品剧集。
And Amazon wants to be able to make Miss Moneypenny Prestige TV's show or whatever.
贝佐斯在晚餐快结束时，他们已经喝了第四瓶酒，拿到MGM和布罗科利家族的账单时，就是这样。
And Bezos was, like, at the end of the dinner after they'd ordered the fourth bottle of wine and they got the check for for MGM and Broccolis.
账单上写的是92亿美元吗？
Like, does that say 9,200,000,000.0?
我们真的做了这件事吗？
Did we do this?
而现在
And now
突然间，这些电影都在Netflix上了。
all of a sudden, the movies are on Netflix.
是的。
Yeah.
比如，嘿，我们能不能把这事儿转给别的平台？
Like, hey, can we can we offload this anywhere?
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，这确实是其中复杂的一个方面，但他们必须把电影拍好。
I mean, that's a that's a that's a complicated aspect of it, but I they just they have to get the movie right.
他们聘请了丹尼斯·维伦纽夫。
They hired Denis Villeneuve.
我觉得他会拍好的。
I think he'll get it right.
我并不太担心。
I'm not really worried.
他们立刻找来了电影迷们。
They went over the movie nerds immediately.
是的。
Yeah.
我们知道是谁在评分吗？
Do we know who's rating it?
我不知道。
I don't know.
17。
17.
有史以来最出色的邦德电影导演？
The most accomplished director to ever handle a Bond movie?
这取决于你怎么定义。
Depends on how you define that.
是的。
Yeah.
迈克尔·阿普特执导过一部皮尔斯·布鲁斯南的邦德电影，他是一位备受赞誉的导演，职业生涯起起落落。
Michael Apted made one of the Pierce Brosnan movies, and he's a, like, acclaimed filmmaker who's got a lot of ups and downs.
但丹尼斯可能是最出色的大型制作导演。
But Denis is probably the best big tent
九十年代最出色的电影人。
filmmaker in the nineties.
长期以来一直有传言说诺兰对此感兴趣。
It had been rumored for a long time that Nolan would be interested.
塔伦蒂诺也曾有兴趣拍摄一部极具他个人风格的重新诠释版。
Tarantino has been interested about doing, like, a basically very Tarantino esque reimagining
他们似乎多次接触过斯皮尔伯格。
of I think they've approached Spielberg multiple times.
但我觉得没有人真正执导过三部邦德电影？
But I think that No one's essentially made three Bond movies?
是的。
Yeah.
如果塔伦蒂诺拍了一部007电影，我认为这会引发另一场世界大战。
That would have started another world war, I think, if Tarantino had done a Bond movie.
我认为英国会直接试图入侵我们。
I think England would have just tried to invade us.
我最喜欢的两个假设是塔伦蒂诺版《星际迷航》和塔伦蒂诺版《007》。
My favorite two what ifs are Tarantino Star Trek and Tarantino Bond.
这对我来说太吸引人了。
Like, that's just so fascinating to me.
这些系列会变成什么样？
What would have happened to those franchises?
塔伦蒂诺版的007会完全沉浸在海洛因里。
Tarantino Bond would have been just on heroin.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
我认为他一定是迄今为止最优秀的导演，可能是第一位跻身顶级五强的导演来执导邦德电影。
I would say he has to be the best director of he's probably the first time a top five director has done a Bond movie.
我也这么认为。
I think so.
比如，一位目前被广泛公认为顶级五强之一的导演。
Like, somebody who's consensus, like, in the top five now.
是的。
Yeah.
你觉得詹姆斯·邦德仍然是好莱坞最酷的角色吗？
Do you think James Bond is still the coolest role you can book in Hollywood?
在英国，至少是这样的。
It is in England, for what it's worth.
我的意思是，对于英国演员来说，十年前你可能可以说
I mean, I think for for a British actor because ten years ago, you could probably say
那是一个超级英雄。
it was a superhero.
我不知道现在是不是这样了。
I don't know if that's the case now.
邦德还是吗？
Is it is it Bond still?
我还是觉得蝙蝠侠是最酷的角色。
I still think Batman's the coolest role.
我觉得是这样，我同意，老兄。
I think that's so think I agree, man.
超级碗冠军的NFL
Super Bowl winning NFL
四分卫，那种角色。
quarterback There's like role.
三四个或者五个角色，一旦拿到，你的生活就要彻底改变了。
Three or four or five roles where it's like, your fucking life's about to change.
你觉得自己现在出名了。
Like, you think you're famous now.
是的。
Yep.
你觉得自己现在有狗仔队跟踪了。
You think you've got paparazzi following you now.
你觉得自己成了人们议论的对象。
You think people are speculating.
你的生活即将改变。
Like, your life is gonna change.
你是超人。
You're superman
蜘蛛侠、邦德。
Spider Man Bond.
超人、蝙蝠侠、邦德。
Superman Batman Bond.
是的。
Yeah.
我想知道还有谁，
I wonder who else that,
比如J。
like J.
D。
D.
万斯。
Vance.
是的。
Yeah.
他们是其中之一。
That's one of them.
另一个是谁？
What's the other one?
帕姆尼特。
Pamknit.
帕姆尼特。
Pamknit.
是的。
Yep.
那就是另一个。
That's the other one.
那个小家伙
The little guy
是托·科比·朱普。
who's To Kobe Jupe.
准备好迎接永久的改变。
Get ready for changed forever.
你看过杰西·巴克利唱歌吗？
Have you watched Jesse Buckley sing?
是的
Yeah.
有一部叫《野玫瑰》的电影，每个成年人都必须看，杰西·巴克利在片中饰演一位渴望成为乡村西部歌手的女性，她要么是苏格兰人，要么是爱尔兰人，我有点记不清了。
There's a there's a movie called Wild Rose that every human has to watch where Jesse Buckley plays, like, an aspiring country and western singer who is from she's either Scottish or Irish in the film.
我想不起来了。
I can't remember.
她唱了九首乡村西部歌曲。
And she sings, like, nine country western songs.
每个人都是真正的高手。
Everyone is a fucking heater.
这部电影让我爱上了她。
It's a it's a movie that made me fall in love with her.
我花了两个小时专门看她的脱口秀片段，她可能是最棒的。
I went on a two hour deep dive of just talk show appearances and, like, she might be the best.
她可能是这个世界上最酷的人。
She she Might be the coolest thing in the in the world.
她是在英国的一个歌唱选秀节目中崭露头角的。
She got her start on a singing talent show in The UK.
我的意思是，她是爱尔兰人。
I mean, she's Irish.
我其实看了，挺酷的。
I actually watched cool.
昨晚我织了件毛衣。
Ham knit last night.
你真的吗？
You did?
我喜欢它。
I liked it.
你正在
You're in the
想看部喜剧吗？
mood for a comedy?
我喜欢。
I liked it.
太好了。
That's great.
是的。
Yeah.
不错。
Nice.
为你高兴。
Good for you.
不过你有点晚了。
Well, you're a little late on it.
抱歉。
Sorry.
很多炒作。
A lot of hype.
有很多炒作在
A lot of hype at
这个时候。
this point.
但当时的炒作褒贬不一。
But there was mixed mixed hype.
比尔有很多海梅特股票。
Bill's got a lot of Hemetstock.
他确实有。
He really does.
我觉得这是这十年来最出色的女性表演之一。
It's one of those I thought it was the best female performance of the decade.
比尔·西蒙斯，海梅特
Bill Simmons, Hemet
拿它和其他任何表演相比。
Put it against any other performance.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
真的。
For real.
《星狮》中的赫梅特和特兰德里真的很有趣。
That's Hemet and Trandry in Starz is really interesting
回顾六年来的最佳女主角表演。
to Six years of best actress performances.
有什么比这更好的吗？
What was better than that?
对我来说，凯特·布兰切特和塔拉的表现都很出色。
Well, Cate Blanchett and Tara's up there for me.
这相当不错。
That's pretty good.
该死。
Goddamn it.
这是一次不错的胜利。
That's a good win.
她没有
She didn't
赢，但那已经很出色了。
win, but that's up there.
她在那部电影里的表现简直不可思议。
She was unbelievable in that.
而且她学会了如何成为一名指挥家。
And she learned how to be a conductor.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
她，这相当不错。
She That's pretty good.
是的。
Yep.
我不知道。
I don't know.
那只手深深触动了我的灵魂。
Hand that really reached into my soul.
我喜欢看到你如此动情。
I love to see you emotional.
是的。
Yeah.
等等。
Wait.
嗯，我没料到会这样。
Well, I wasn't expecting it.
我想那就是关键所在。
I think that was the thing.
说到情感方面
Speaking of emotional
芬卡·扬森。
Funka Jansen.
西兰花的健康状况在恶化。
Broccoli's health was declining.
阿尔伯特的。
Albert's.
是的。
Yeah.
他在这部电影上映七个月后去世了。
And and he died seven months after this movie.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这也是第一部没有使用伊恩·弗莱明原著任何故事元素的电影。
And this was also the first movie that didn't use any story elements from the Ian Fleming books.
他们只是说：我们要做有声书。
They were just like, we're gonna Audible.
但正如克里斯前面说的，感觉最像邦德了。
But as Chris said earlier, Feels kind of the most Bond y.
电影一开始就是一场大型追逐戏。
Starts out with the big chase scene in the beginning.
我们有两个性感的女生。
We have two hot girls.
我们有一个道具场景。
We have a gadget scene.
我们有一场汽车追逐戏。
We have a car chase.
我们有一个疯狂的坦克场景。
We have a crazy tank scene.
是的，你说得对。
Yeah, you're right.
我们有一个有趣的结局，像是在一个大型装置里。
We have a fun ending with, like in, like, a big apparatus.
拉什出现在故事中。
Rush is in the story.
对。
Yeah.
他们有一个令人困惑的冷战情节。
They have there's, like, some sort of confusing Cold War plot.
如果你要列一份应该出现在邦德电影中的元素清单，这部电影可能涵盖了最多的条目。
Like, it it kinda if you're gonna do a checklist of things that should be in a Bond movie, it might check the most boxes.
这是个非常好的观点。
That's a really good point.
出色的反派。
Good villain.
出色的反派。
Great villain.
我其实没有特别喜欢的一个，我最喜欢的
I don't really have One of favorite one of my favorite
邦德反派。
Bond villains.
我希望他们能跟这个角色展开一场大战。
I wish that they had done war with that character.
是的。
Yeah.
这部重启电影是柏林墙倒塌、苏联解体、冷战结束后的第一部邦德电影。
So the reboot, this is the first Bond film after Berlin Wall collapses, collapse of the USSR, end of the Cold War.
这是第一部使用CGI技术的邦德电影。
It's the first one that uses CGI.
它启用了一位女性M，这在当时引起了很大关注。
It casts a female m, which was a big deal to people.
他不在乎性别。
He doesn't see gender.
嗯，那时候人们都惊呆了，什么？
Well, was just like back then, they were like, what?
会是个女性？
It's gonna be a female?
现在嘛，当然了。
Now it's like, yeah.
我找来了其中一位最受尊敬的演员。
I got Smart to cast, like, one of the most venerated actors.
是的。
Yeah.
让一位著名女演员来饰演Em。
Famous actress to play Em.
是的。
Yeah.
然后是邦德女郎，法米克·詹森。
And then the Bond girls, Famke Janssen.
对我来说，她绝对是前十名的邦德女郎之一。
Easily in the top 10 Bond girls for me.
当然。
Easily.
对我来说，她能排进前五。
Oh, top five for me.
这挺有趣的。
It's funny.
有个问题，她算不算邦德女郎，因为她同时也是反派。
There's it's a question of whether she counts as a Bond girl because she's also a villain.
是的。
Yeah.
这些年来，这样的角色太多了。
There's so many of those over the years.
这是一部罕见的电影，其中有两个邦德女郎，一个是女主角，另一个实际上是反派，但她们都被算作两个邦德女郎。
Is a rare movie that has two Bond girls together, but one's the heroine, the other is actually a villain, but they count as two Bond girls.
她们确实这样做了吧？我觉得在布鲁斯南的几部电影里都是这样的，对吧？
Do they but they do that, I think, throughout the Brosnan movies, don't they?
好像有好几个
There's, like, a couple of
是的。
Yeah.
比如克里斯蒂安·琼斯博士，
There's, doctor Christmas Jones,
当然。
of course.
克里斯蒂安出现了两次。
Christmas came twice.
是的。
Yeah.
还有哈莉·贝瑞。
There's Halle Berry.
她是什么身份来着？
She's also what is she?
她是一位天体物理学家，我想你说得对。
She's an astrophysicist I guess you're right.
我之前没这么想过，居然有这种情形，我
I hadn't thought about it like that, that there's I
我觉得反派比爱情伴侣更出彩，这不太寻常，是吧。
think it's unusual for the for the villain to outstrip the the, like, love partner Yeah.
那种善良又有趣的魅力。
The nice and fun appeal.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吧？
You know?
就像，总是多了一点那种
Like, there's always something a little bit more kind
带有报复性的意味。不过话说回来，我很喜欢伊莎贝尔·斯卡鲁普卡在这部片里的表现。
of vindictive With that said, I I love Isabel Skarupka in this.
维基百科、IMDB 上的信息真奇怪。
Really strange Wikipedia, IMDB.
这才是巅峰。
This was the peak.
我也有同感。
I had that.
我真的很想聊聊她。
I I I really wanted to talk about her.
之后她辗转了不少地方，但我觉得她在这部片里投出了99分，而丰克则投出了107分。
Bounced around after, but I think she's throwing 99 in this, and then Fonke is throwing, like, a 107.
是的。
Yeah.
Fonke像是吃了兴奋剂一样。
Fonke's on on steroids.
我不知道她在这部电影里在做什么，但我太喜欢了。
Don't know what she's doing in this movie, but I love it.
我爱每一个瞬间。
I love every second of it.
我会把对Isabella的评论留到节目后面再说。
I'll hold my Isabella comments for later in the episode.
那么，史上最棒的邦德女郎，你有什么看法？
So top Bond girl ever, what do you have?
这是我心中的前三名。
Here's my top three.
芭芭拉·布奇、塔莉莎·索托，我觉得她简直太棒了。
Barbara Bach, Talisa So to, I thought, was just incredible.
塔莉莎·索托太出色了。
Talisa So to is incredible.
太酷了。
Very cool.
就是不明白她为什么没有成为超级巨星。
Just don't understand why she wasn't a massive star.
还有Pussy Galore，光是名字就足够了。
And then Pussy Galore, just for half the name.
是的。
Yeah.
但那个场景、那部电影在那个奇怪的时代里充满了性暗示。
But just everything in that that scene that movie is so sexually loaded for this weird era to make that movie.
每一件事都充满了双关意味。
Everything is just dripping of innuendo.
但我认为这就是我的前三名。
But I think that's my top three.
伊娃·格林真的很
Eva Green is really
伊娃·格林也很棒。
Eva Green's a good one too.
在我舒适区。
In my zone.
我
I
这也是个不错的选择。
That's a good one.
好的。
Alright.
那我就算第四个了。
I'll make it four.
我觉得我最爱的是伍尔沃斯
I think my top Woolworth
可能就在那儿。
is probably up there.
《金枪人》里的那个女演员是谁？
Who's the one in Man with the Golden Gun?
她扮演的角色叫什么名字？
What's her character's name?
我想不起来了。
I'm blanking.
好吧，老兄。
Alright, man.
现在我们都来聊聊吧，福尔卡·詹森，荷兰模特，身高六英尺，上过电视。
Now we're all gonna be good with So, Fonka Jansen, Dutch model, six feet tall, was on TV.
《金枪人》里的角色是玛丽·古德奈特吗？
Man with the Golden Gun, the character is Mary Goodnight?
是的。
Yeah.
布丽特·艾克兰。
Britt Ecklund.
布丽特·艾克兰。
Britt Ecklund.
哦，布丽特·艾克兰。
Oh, Britt Ecklund.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Of course.
她也拍一些电视剧。
Does some TV stuff.
出演过《飞越比佛利》这部非常重要的剧集。
Really important Melrose Place appearance.
怎么了？
What happened?
她做了什么？
What she did?
她演了那个冯卡的妓女？
Played hooker that Fonca?
那个医生。
That Doctor.
迈克尔·曼奇尼。
Michael Mancini
叫了妓女。
Call hired
女孩。
girl.
夜之女郎。
Lady of the night.
性工作者？
Sex worker?
是的。
Yeah.
那就是迈克尔·曼奇尼的前妻
That when Michael Mancini's ex
她扮演了一个妓女。
She played a whore.
嗯，她确实是。
Well, she was.
迈克尔·曼奇尼的前妻简当时正在和一位为他们办理离婚的律师约会。
Michael Mancini's ex wife Jane was dating this lawyer who did their divorce.
迈克尔·曼奇尼找来这位女士和他们发生关系，拍下了视频，寄给简，拆散了他们。
Michael Mancini gets this lady to sleep with them, videotapes it, sends it to Jane, breaks them up.
那就是我如何认识法姆克·詹森的。
That was how I met Famke Janssen.
好吧。
Okay.
我当时就想，这人是谁？
I'm like, who is this?
最后他去了邦德，打板球，被迈克·麦克德制止了，那是九十年代最具争议的场景。
Ends up in Bond, plays rounders, gets shut down by Mike McD, the most controversial scene of the nineties.
他说道：不，不用了，我很好。
He's like, no, no, I'm good.
不用了，谢谢。
No, thanks.
她在教职员工里？
She's in the faculty?
是的。
Yep.
对。
Yes.
很多人的都在教职员工里。
A lot of people are in the faculty.
是的。
Yeah.
约翰·斯图尔特。
John Stewart.
我们还没做过关于教职员工的那集。
We haven't done a faculty episode.
这件事一直萦绕在心头。
It's been knocking on the door.
嘿，老兄。
Hey, man.
你想要什么都行。
Whatever you want.
我在电影院看过。
Saw it in the theater.
我最近刚看了。
Just watched it recently.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
很棒。
It was great.
那是一场盛事。
That was an event.
她出演了《X战警》、《整形春秋》，还有《捉神弄鬼》系列。
She's in X Men, Nip Tuck apparently, and then Taken franchise.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得她事业不错。
I think I think Good career.
我觉得《X战警》绝对是她目前最广为人知的作品，因为她还演过《吉恩·格兰特》，所以
I think X Men is definitely her the thing she's best known for at this point because she was in Gene Grant, so
很多那些房间的环绕声。
many of those room, surrounders.
也许在这个房间里，今后将是泽尼亚居于首位。
And maybe in this room, going forward, it's Xenia on the top.
特别的。
Special.
特别的表演。
Special performance.
在顶部。
On a top.
我甚至不明白它是什么。
I don't even understand It's
离伊万娜·汉普非常近。
so close to Ivana Hump a lot.
它几乎就要触及到人们了。
It's like it's like so almost on the verge of people.
泽尼亚在顶部。
Zen Zenya on a top.
这是克雷格正确的另一个原因。
That's another reason why Craig is right.
我认为《黄金眼》这款游戏是这方面最令人难忘的部分，但《王牌大贱谍》的内容太多了。
I think that Golden Eye, the game, is the most kind of memorable aspect of this, but so much of Austin Powers.
我后来才想到这一点。
That I had that coming later.
是的。
Yeah.
我们现在就做吧。
Let's do it now.
泽尼亚·奥纳托普只是
Xenia Onatop is just
那些小工具
The gadgets
很多阴道。
a lot of vagina.
这简直就是同一个角色。
It's like that is the same character.
不。
No.
很明显，他们在创作《王牌大间谍》时看了这部电影十遍。
It's clear they watched this movie 10 times as they were writing the Austin Powers.
是的。
Yeah.
毫无疑问。
There's no question.
对。
Yes.
他们试图融合很多元素。
They were trying to pull a whole bunch of things off.
《王牌大贱谍》还是那样。
Austin Powers still.
《烈火》。
Heat.
五分满分。
Five out of five.
肖恩·宾扮演反派。
Sean Bean is the bad guy.
他曾经试镜过
And he had auditioned to play
O六。
o six.
嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
结果发现，这可能是他最糟糕的计划，仅次于他决定去面对瑟曦女王并告诉她，自己知道关于乱伦婴儿的事。
Turns out, this was his worst plan other than when he decided to confront Queen Cersei and tell her about he knew about the incest baby.
真难选。
Tough one.
那可能是肖恩·宾最愚蠢的时刻。
That was probably Sean Bean's dumbest moment.
大概吧。
Probably.
你重看《权力的游戏》时在做什么？
What are you up to in the Thrones rewatch
为了这个桑拿？
for this sauna?
现在看到第二季了。
Season two now.
我还是无法相信他竟然站在瑟曦女王那边。
I still can't believe he's standing in queen Cersei.
就像波罗米尔那样说，我能掌控这枚戒指。
As as Boromir being like, I can hold this ring.
我来搞定。
I got this.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
因为《七王国的骑士》，我们家里最近一直在研究坦格利安和巴列利昂家族的历史。
Been doing a lot of Targaryen Baratheon history in our household because of a knight of the seven kingdoms.
是的。
Yeah.
搞清楚家族谱系。
To figure out lineages.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
很复杂。
Complicated.
对。
Yeah.
很多黑发。
Lot of dark hair.
在里面。
In there.
你知道的。
You know?
全程都是黑发，还有巴列利昂家族，是的。
Dark hair all the way through, and the Baratheons Yeah.
与你的出身抗争。
Fighting your roots.
等一下。
One moment.
恶魔坦格利安。
Demon Targary.
不过我喜欢O-O-6，因为有一点背景故事。
I like o o six, though, because there's, like, a little backstory.
它不只是那种典型的‘我是邪恶反派’。
It's not just, like, a typical, I'm an evil villain.
我想接管一切。
I wanna take over shit.
是的。
Yeah.
就像是
It's like
这是一个
It's a
好主意。
good idea.
我有点儿觉得，
I kinda, like,
他是《007：大破天幕杀机》中巴尔姆的前身，我们都曾是特工。
get He's a precursor for Bardem in Skyfall, which is like the we were both spies.
他们把我击垮了，你知道吗？
They they they they broke me, you know?
但这个家伙，我的意思是，他基本上对……有着一生的仇恨。
And but this guy, I mean, he's got, like, basically a lifelong vendetta against
关于哥萨克狮子的整个设定真是个好主意。
The whole thing with the Lions Cossacks is just a good idea.
这构思得非常巧妙。
It's just a it's really cleverly constructed.
我对这些电影最大的意见是，当一个人感到被英国背叛，就想报复，干一堆坏事。
My biggest issue with these movies is when the person feels betrayed by England and wants to, like, you know, commit a bunch of bad shit.
我总是觉得，我有点能理解他的立场。
I'm always like, I kinda see his point.
英国真差劲。
England sucks.
就是这样。
There you go.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，
You know,
同意。
agree.
他正在拍一部
He's making some
反殖民主义电影。
anticolonial film.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，我们住在美洲，我家来自爱尔兰。
Well, we live in America, and my family's from Ireland.
所以我觉得我们可以滚蛋了。
So I think we can fuck off.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，你知道的，1773年的时候，他们早就把波士顿炸到海里去了。
I mean, you know, 1773, they would have blown Boston into the fucking ocean.
现在我们一个世纪才有14个冠军。
Now we have 14 titles a century.
混蛋。
Fuckers.
没错。
That's right.
唯一阻止的是，是的。
The only thing stopping Yeah.
汤姆·布雷迪他妈的就是乔治国王。
Tom Brady was fucking King George.
由巴顿·坎贝尔执导。
Directed by Barton Campbell.
首位执导邦德电影的非英国人。
First non Brit to direct a Bond movie.
而且这里有大约一千七百个编剧和改写者。
And there's, like, 1,700 writers and rewriters for this.
他们一直
They just kept
收回。
taking back.
而《真实的谎言》有点接近
And True Lies was a little close to
原始故事。
the original story.
不得不修改。
Had to fix it.
关于《真实的谎言》剧本、这个剧本和《碟中谍》电影，有点像是哪个先出现，谁先提出了某些想法。
Fun stuff with the True Lies script, this script, and the Mission Impossible movie of, like, kind of what came first, what was sort of written down first, who had certain ideas first.
但没错，这是他们为下一部007电影所做的多个剧本草稿的积累，其中有一些，比如涉及美国黑手党的版本。
But, yeah, this was the accumulation of a bunch of drafts that they had done for the next Bond movie, some of which like, there was one with the American Mafia.
还有一个版本，像是，回过头去看这些都很有趣。
There's one with like, it's it's all interesting to go back and
查一下这个。
look this.
电影至今仍然是这样制作的。
Movies are still done this way.
你知道，这些大片虽然只署了两位编剧，但他们并不是原始编剧，所以这个是‘故事由’的署名。
You know, these huge movies that have, you know, two credited writers, but they're not the original writers, so this is a story by credit.
然后还有另外五个人参与进来，对内容进行了补充。
And then you have five other people who took a whack at stuff to add to it.
是的。
Yeah.
通常这种情况会持续两年左右。
Usually that happens over two years.
没错。
Yep.
当时正值冷战，还有两个竞争项目并行推进。
Six with, like, the Cold War happening, and then two competing projects that were on the corner.
我今天或昨天重看这部电影时有点困惑，一开始看到是苏联，我还以为这是一部历史题材电影呢。
I got confused watching the rewatching the movie today or yesterday because I thought when it starts and it's the USSR, I was like, so is this like a period piece?
我都忘了剧情其实跳到了未来，因为电影之间的时间跨度几乎就正好是那个时期。
Like, I had forgotten that they zoom ahead to the future because it's like almost exactly that period of time that goes by between movies.
600亿美元的预算，票房收入为3.564亿美元。
$60,000,000,000 budget made 356,400,000.0.
这是1995年票房第四高的电影，而那一年可不是个小年。
It's the fourth biggest 1995 movie, which was not a small movie year.
这是最大的一部007电影吗？
And was this the biggest Bond?
自《太空城》以来最大的007电影。
Biggest Bond since Moonraker.
是的。
Yeah.
《太空城》大获成功。
Moonraker crushed.
人们都说，太空题材，007电影。
People are like, outer space, Bonds.
对。
Yeah.
《大白鲨》。
Jaws.
得走了。
Gotta go.
走了。
Going.
走了两次。
Going twice.
一百三十分钟。
Hundred and thirty minutes.
所以在克雷格世纪俱乐部里，这多出了30分钟。
So on the Craig Century Club, this is a plus 30.
可能能删掉十到十二分钟。
Probably could've lost ten, twelve minutes.
我觉得你
I think you
可以说每部007电影都是这样。
can say that about every single Bond movie.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得每一部007电影对我来说都稍微有点长。
I think every single Bond movie is just a little too long for me.
从大约三十五分钟到七十分钟，我本可以剪掉二十分钟。
From about minute thirty five to minute seventy, I could have done twenty twenty minutes You
到了古巴，你会觉得，天啊，我们还剩四十分钟。
get to Cuba and you're like, man, we still got forty minutes
剩下。
left.
对。
Yeah.
这部电影的结构很奇怪。
There it's it's a weirdly structured movie.
电影的实际任务直到四十五分钟才出现，这对007电影来说是相当不寻常的。
The actual mission of the movie does not get introduced until forty five minutes in, which is quite it's atypical for Bond movies.
是的。
Yeah.
我们可以稍微拉近一点镜头。
We could have zoomed in a little bit.
我们的影评人罗杰·伊伯特给了三颗星。
Our guy Roger Ebert, three stars.
第一部有自我意识的邦德电影，嗯。
The first Bond film that is self aware Uh-huh.
它已经失去了纯真，拜托，我们看到了什么？
That has lost its innocence and Come on, the we saw what?
我指的是，它的世界原本的单纯性。
Simplicity of I mean, its world
这是泽尼亚，老兄。
this is Zenia, man.
你懂的？
You know?
拉吉想被挤出去。
Raj wanted to get squeezed out.
这是
This is
在拉吉之上。
On the top of Raj.
对吧？
Right?
它对主角的荒诞与悲伤有一定的理解。
It has some understanding of the absurdity and sadness of its hero.
在拉吉之上。
On the top of Raj.
对吧？
Right?
你会为此下地狱的。
You're going to hell for that.
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