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最近怎么样？
What's poppin'?
废墟。
Ruins.
我是洛根·默多克。
Logan Murdoch here.
霍华德·贝克和拉贾稍后加入。
Howard Beck and Raja in a bit.
在第一部分，我们聊聊珍妮、巴斯和里奇·保罗之间在洛杉矶发生的纷争。
In the first segment, we talk about the drama in Los Angeles between Jeanie, Buss, and Rich Paul.
太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
这一部分我们请到了霍华德·贝克。
We got Howard Beck on the first segment for that one.
然后我和拉贾畅谈纽约尼克斯队、金州勇士队和库明加。
And then me and Raja wax poetic about the New York Knicks, the Golden State Warriors, Cuminga.
然后我们进入本周的第一条规则，老兄。
And then we get to Rule One of the Week, man.
这里非常明确直接。
Very cut cut and dry here.
有趣的播客。
Fun pod.
太喜欢了。
Loved it.
Cliff，你播放了主题曲。
Cliff, played the theme music.
真正在放送精彩内容。
Popping real ones.
这里是Logan Murdoch。
Logan Murdoch here.
Roger Bill在那里。
Roger Bill there.
霍华德·贝克来参与一个环节。
Howard Beck for a segment.
我们在这里讨论湖人队，我们在这个节目里经常这么做。
We are here to talk Lakers, which we tend to do a lot here on this program.
好的。
Okay.
所以我们是在ESPN的巴克斯特·霍姆斯发表的一篇深度报道背景下讨论这个话题的，他详细剖析了巴斯家族的家庭戏剧，说实话，你们真该去读读那篇关于这部分内容的精彩报道。
So we're talking about this on the backdrop of a very in-depth piece at ESPN by ESPN Baxter ESPN's Baxter Holmes, where he gets into the minutiae of the family drama of the Bus family that, honestly, you guys should just read that great story about that part of it.
我其实不太想过多涉及，你知道的，家庭内部的纷争，还有他们因为最终报酬问题而产生的内斗。
I don't really wanna get necessarily into, you know, families, you know, infighting and also, you know, them infighting about eventually getting paid.
所以，我想谈的是与本赛季相关的一件事，就是报道中提到的一个轶事：珍妮·巴斯曾对她身边的人说，勒布朗·詹姆斯对湖人队在几年前以第55顺位选中布朗尼并不感激。
So, like, I wanted but I do wanna talk about is something that relates to this season, which was an anecdote in the story where Baxter reports that Genie Buss said to people close to her that LeBron James wasn't grateful to the Lakers organization for drafting Bronnie fifty fifth overall in the draft a few years ago.
然后，有一些回应，我马上会读出来。
And, there are responses which I will read out, in a second.
但我真正想在这里讨论的是，拥有明星球员和划时代的超级天才在阵容中，以及如何管理这种拉扯和推动的关系。
But what I really wanted to have a discussion here about is how the pull and push of having stars on your roster and all time generational talent and having to manage that.
勒布朗加盟湖人队对湖人来说是一次多方面的重大胜利，无论是品牌影响力、奖杯陈列，还是我们在这个节目中讨论过的诸多方面。
LeBron coming to the Lakers was a coup for the Lakers in so many different ways, for their brand, for their trophy case, and a lot of things that, you know, we have talked about on this program.
但其中一点，我们会谈到的，就是这种关系动态。
But one of the things that, you know, we'll get to is just the relationship dynamic.
不过我想先读两段关于此事的声明，然后再请霍华德发言。
But I wanna read two statements about this, and then I wanna go to Howard.
这是G.
This is what G.
U.
U.
S.
S.
对《The Athletic》表示
Said to, The Athletic.
考虑到勒布朗为湖人队所做的所有伟大贡献，把他牵扯进我的家庭纷争确实不合适。
It's really not right given all the great things LeBron has done for the Lakers, that he has to be pulled into my family drama.
说他没受到赏识根本不符合事实，对他完全不公平。
To say that he wasn't appreciated just is not true and completely unfair to him.
而里奇·保罗说过——需要完全声明一下，里奇·保罗是我们的同事，他和马克斯·凯勒曼共同主持播客节目，他就是在和马克斯·凯勒曼的播客中说了这番话。
And Rich Paul said, and, you know, full disclaimer, Rich Paul is a coworker of ours, and he has a podcast with Max Kellerman, and he said this on the podcast with Max Kellerman.
听着，每天都会有文章写出来。
Look, there's an article written every day.
谁在乎啊？
Who gives a shit?
我不这么认为。
I don't.
对吧？
Right?
而且你也不知道什么是真的，什么是假的，但无风不起浪，对吧？
And you don't know what's true, what's not true, but there's a where there's smoke, there's fire, right?
像迈克尔·欧文这样的球员值得赞赏，他们确实是传奇人物，而对于像勒布朗这样的人，当然更应该得到赞赏。
There's an appreciation for guys like Michael Irvin, there should be, are legends, and there damn sure should be appreciation for a guy like LeBron.
对吧？
Right?
我认为，人们常常因为一些没有实质依据的原因决定不做某事。
And I think that oftentimes people decide what not to do for reasons that don't really have substance to it.
霍华德，你从这两段话中对这个故事有什么看法？它们告诉我们勒布朗和湖人队目前的关系如何？
Howard, what did you get from both statements in regards to the story, and what do they tell us about the dynamic between LeBron and, the Lakers at this given moment?
巴克斯特写了一个精彩的故事。
Fantastic story by Baxter.
巴克斯特的报道非常出色。
Great reporting by Baxter.
非常全面。
Really comprehensive.
篇幅很长，如果你还没读过，不妨抽出一些时间。
It's long, so people, if you haven't read it yet, set aside some time.
值得一看。
It's worth it.
我只想指出珍妮·巴斯声明中没有的内容，以及据我所知任何地方都没有的内容。
I will just note what is not in Jeanie Buss' statement and what is not in anything as far as I know.
我还没听我们同事里奇·保罗和马克斯·凯勒曼在他们的播客上的发言。
I haven't listened to our colleagues, Rich Paul and Max Kellerman on their podcast.
就只是你刚才读的那段引述，罗根。
Just the quote that you just read, Logan.
但似乎珍妮·巴斯的声明和里奇·保罗对报道的回应中最缺失的是——没有人否认任何事。
But it seems that the thing that is most absent from both Jeannie Buss' statement and Rich Paul's reply to the story is, No one is denying anything.
你们没有否认任何一点，也没有反驳任何内容，更没有提出任何与巴克斯特报道相反的东西。
Y'all haven't denied a single thing or rebutted a single thing or presented anything to the contrary of anything that Baxter reported.
这并不意味着他们不同意。
That doesn't mean that they don't disagree.
他们可能不同意。
They may.
他们可能只是决定不在任何问题上进行针锋相对的争论。
They may just have decided not to go tit for tat on whatever it may be.
但我确实觉得这很引人注目。
But I do think it's striking.
当你在这个行业里，这些就是你关注的重点——当人们发布公关声明或回应时，或者当他们决定像这次一样不回应巴克斯特·霍姆斯向湖人队以及我推测还有里奇·保罗和勒布朗阵营提出的各种询问，以核实、反驳或评论他报道中的任何内容。
When you're in this business, these are the things you look for when people are putting out PR statements or responses or when they've decided, as they did in this case, not to respond to Baxter Holmes' various inquiries to the Lakers, and I assume to Rich Paul and LeBron's camp in general, to verify, rebut, comment on any of the things that are in his story.
巴克斯特做了充分的调查工作，而他们既没有回复，也没有提出任何相反的声明或证据。
Baxter did his homework, and they did not reply or did not present any contrary statements or evidence.
现在报道已经发布了，他们仍然没有回应。
And now that the story's out, they still aren't.
所以在没有反驳的情况下，他们可以随意贬低它，说什么‘哦，这又是胡说八道’或者‘他们就是想这样抹黑我们’之类的话。
So in the absence of that, they can say whatever they want to poo poo it and say, Oh, it's it's just more of this bullshit, or They're just trying to say this about us or that.
你们什么都没反驳，各位。
Haven't refuted anything, guys.
抱歉，里奇。
Sorry, Rich.
抱歉，珍妮。
Sorry, Jeannie.
截至今天下午东部时间录制时，你们尚未对任何内容进行反驳。
You have not refuted anything as of this recording at a little afternoon Eastern Time on Thursday.
也许后续会有更多回应。
Maybe more will come.
所以我认为人们首先应该明白的是，这个故事对动态关系的描述是不准确的，尤其是涉及珍妮·巴斯和巴斯家族、巴斯兄弟姐妹，以及他们在决定将球队出售给马克·沃尔特斯及其团队过程中所发生的一切。
So I think that's the first thing that people should take away, is that this story is inaccurate, an accurate portrayal of dynamics, primarily to do with Jeanie Buss and the Buss family, the Buss siblings, and all the things that happened on the way to their decision to sell to Mark Walters and his group.
但这里面确实存在一些所有权与勒布朗之间的矛盾。
But there is definitely some ownership versus LeBron stuff in here.
我的看法很简单，各位。
And my takeaway there, guys, is simply this.
这并不是要贬低巴克斯特的报道，但它确实是我们已经知道的事情。
And this is not to downplay Baxter's reporting at all, but it is kind of what we've already known.
在这个过程中，一直存在紧张关系。
There have been tensions along the way.
我们在鲁塞尔·威斯布鲁克事件发生时就已经知道了。
We knew this in real time over the Russell Westbrook stuff.
在威斯布鲁克实验期间，这一举措迅速失败，引发了许多球迷和媒体的呼声，认为他们应该就此放手，这是一次错误。
At the time of the Westbrook experiment, which went very badly, very quickly, or went sour very quickly, and there was a lot of calls in various quarters by fans, by media, that they needed to move on, that this was a mistake.
当时存在很大紧张情绪，因为湖人队管理层因交易关键球员换来拉塞尔·威斯布鲁克并走上这条道路而承受了主要压力，而湖人队希望外界知道，他们通过其他渠道明确表示，这是勒布朗的意愿。
And there was a lot of tension there because the Laker front office was taking a lot of the brunt of that for having gone and traded key pieces to get Russell Westbrook and gone down this road, and the Lakers wanted it known, and they certainly made it known through other channels that this is what LeBron wanted.
因此，仅就威斯布鲁克事件而言，湖人队作为一个组织与勒布朗及其团队之间就已存在紧张关系，这一点早已公开并持续多年。
So the tension between the Lakers as an organization and LeBron and his camp over the Westbrook thing alone, that's on the record and has been there for years.
所以，那里一直存在一些紧张关系。
So, there's always been a bit of a tension there.
这里还有一些其他细节，也许我们稍后会探讨，关于故事中声称吉妮·巴斯对勒布朗所说的一些话。
There's some other details here that maybe we'll get into about things that Jeanie Bus is purported to have said, according to the story, regarding LeBron.
但确实，一直以来都存在紧张关系，朋友们。
But, yeah, there's been tension, guys.
我不认为里奇·保罗会否认这一点。
I don't think Rich Paul would deny that, frankly.
我还没有和他谈过这件事，但我相信里奇不会否认这一点。
I have not had that conversation with him, but I don't think Rich would deny that.
我甚至不认为吉尼或其他湖人管理层会否认途中出现过一些波折，他们可能会说，但这种情况在任何组织中都会发生。
I don't even think Genie necessarily or other Laker officials would deny that there have been some bumps along the way, and they would probably say that but that that that always happens in an organization.
确实如此。
And it's true.
确实会这样。
It does.
但当时外界非常关注谁该为拉塞尔·威斯布鲁克的失败负责。
But there was very much attention about who was to blame for the Russell Westbrook fiasco.
是的。
Yep.
拉贾，你觉得像这样，我们常说在这个联盟中得到球星很重要。
Raja, how important like, you know, we we talk about you know, it's important to get stars in this league.
对吧？
Right?
但更重要的是管理好这些球星。
But it's also the most important thing is to manage stars in this league.
对吧？
Right?
湖人队的整个品牌就是：嘿。
And the Lakers are their whole brand is is, hey.
你可以来洛杉矶。
You could come to LA.
你可以成为明星。
You can be a star.
你可以拥有你想要的一切。
You can have all of the all of the things that you want.
我们会为明星打造最佳的环境。
We will put make the best environment for stars.
纵观我们的历史，你已经看到了这一点。
You've seen this throughout our history.
这是我们在这里的卖点。
This is our selling point here.
对吧？
Right?
在这一系列纷繁复杂的事情中，如果我作为另一个想加入的球员，这真的重要吗？或者你是否认为这可能是某种孤立事件？
In the rigmarole of all of this, does this really even matter if I'm if I'm another player trying to come here, or do you do you look at this as maybe an isolated incident of some sort?
里奇·保罗关于奥斯汀被交易到孟菲斯的评论？
The Rich Paul comments about about maybe was it Austin being traded to to Memphis?
你知道吗？
You know?
作为一名球队球员，这可能会在某些方面影响我。
And and as a player on a team, that might affect me in some way.
你明白吗？
You know?
比如说，如果我的名字出现在你的经纪人和团队口中，讨论被交易的事情，坦白说，这可能会让我感到不舒服。
Like, if if my name is in your agent's mouth and your camp's mouth about about being shipped or traded, like, that might rub me the wrong way, just frankly.
但其余的部分就是它本来的样子，勒布朗和他的团队一直如此，这并非坏事。
But the rest of it is just what it is, what it's always been with LeBron and camp, and not in a bad way.
我只是说，如果我错了请纠正我，但当我还在联盟的时候，可能我对这方面的情况了解没有你们那么深入。
He's just I mean, and correct me if I'm wrong, but like, you know, when I was around the league, maybe I wasn't as tapped in to to the side of it that you guys were.
但我不记得曾经有像勒布朗团队这样的球星和球队，能如此一致地作为一个整体运作，并持续利用他们的地位来要求球队实现他们的目标。
But I don't remember a star player and team like LeBron's team operating, you know, as a unit and and kind of leveraging consistently the the position that they were in to hold teams accountable for what they wanted to get done.
我认为他们在整个NBA中，作为一支团队，已经把这件事做得和任何阵营一样好了。
I think they've done that as well as any camp, you know, in in the NBA as a team.
这在某种程度上确实值得钦佩，但我觉得湖人队的情况和 elsewhere 并没有什么不同。
And, you know, it's to be admired in some regard, but I don't think it's any different here with the Lakers as it's been anywhere.
我在骑士队管理层的时候，亲眼目睹了他那一方与大卫·格里芬、丹以及骑士队老板之间的互动，我真不记得有什么激烈的冲突，但始终存在来回的沟通。
I mean, I was in the Cavs front office and and watched the interactions between his side and and David Griffin and and and Dan and and the ownership of the Cavs, I don't really remember any contentious, like, interactions, but there was always a back and forth.
始终都存在一些微妙的摩擦和紧张，因为你们的目标虽然相似，但出发点却截然相反。
There were always, you know, microaggressions and tensions there because, you know, you're you're you're working towards a similar goal, but you're coming at it from two opposite sides.
一方试图保护球队的未来和当下利益。
One's trying to protect the future, you know, and the present of an organization.
而另一方则只关心眼前的胜利。
The the other is solely concerned with winning in the now.
这总会造成一些摩擦。
And that that's always gonna cause a little bit of friction.
所以我不觉得霍华德说的话有什么大不了的。
So I don't I I mean, I I don't think it's a big deal to what Howard said.
我们早就知道这一点了。
Like, we've known this.
如果你一直关注勒布朗的职业生涯，就会知道这在湖人队并不是什么新鲜或独特的情况。
If you've watched and followed LeBron's career, that it's not new and unique to to the Lakers situation.
但我还是要说，一旦事情发展到像里奇他们这样的管理层，以及我作为勒布朗的队友，谈论为了球队更好而交易我，我可能会对此有意见。
But I would say again, once it gets to the point of, like, Rich and and company, and I'm one of LeBron's teammates talking about me being traded for the betterment, that that I would have an issue with probably.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我们就是处在这种境地。
I mean, that's that's where we are.
对吧？
Right?
因为你基本上处于一种两头被束缚的状态。
Because you're you're basically you know, you're in a in a in a in a state where your hands are tied on on both places.
对吧？
Right?
你仍然是个经纪人。
Like, you're still an agent.
对吧？
Right?
而且你仍然对球队内部的动态了如指掌。
And you still have intimate knowledge of the goings on of an organization.
一方面你知道这些信息，另一方面你每场比赛都和这些人在一起，你知道，他在加密货币方面是局外人。
And then on one end, you know this information, and then you're around these guys every every game, you know, Respawns he is outside when it comes to being in crypto.
然后你又得回去见这些人，还要在平台上谈论他们。
And then you gotta go back and, like, see these guys and then talk about them on a platform.
这对球队的凝聚力可不太有利。
That doesn't do great for team camaraderie.
但我正在想的另一件事是，我要问问霍华德的看法，这感觉就像是勒布朗公司晚期阶段了。
But the other thing that I'm thinking about this, and I'm gonna go to Howard on this one, is this feels like just late stage LeBron Inc.
在这个阶段，当你作为核心人物、一号人物，拥有组织内一定权力时，这种权力才有效。
At this point where this power works when you are the lead guy, when you are the number one guy, when you do have a certain level of power within the organization.
对吧？
Right?
而勒布朗通常成为这样的人，是因为他超凡的天赋、卓越的领导力，以及这些年我们所看到的种种特质。
And, usually, LeBron has become that guy because of his supreme talent and his supreme, you know, leadership and all of those things that we've seen throughout the years.
但现在，这已经不是他的球队了，我认为我们正开始看到这种变化带来的后果，再加上你过去在骑士队时可以玩权力游戏，在热火队时也能这么做。
But now, you know, this is not his team anymore, and I think we're starting to see the fallout in this added to the fact that you can do, you know, the power plays when you're with the Cavaliers and try to do them when you're with the Miami Heat.
但湖人队是完全不同的世界、组织和生态体系，因为他们追求的是总冠军，而你并不是他们在某个时期拥有的最大明星。
But the Lakers are an entirely different world and organization and ecosystem because they're about championships, and you are not the biggest star that they have ever had in a given time.
对吧？
Right?
他们正是对勒布朗所拥有的任何权力的完美反驳。
They are the perfect, anecdote to whatever, you know, power LeBron has.
在你看来，霍华德，我刚才说的这些有多大程度上是造成这种情况的原因？
How much of this, in your mind, Howard, is is a product of what I just said in in your mind.
对吧？
Right?
他和里奇·保罗正在逐渐失去一些控制权。
Where he is like LeBron, Rich Paul, they are losing a bit of control.
在过去一年里，你已经看到了一些幕后反应，比如里奇·保罗所发表的那些言论。
And over the last year, you've kinda seen the reaction to that, behind the scenes, things like, you know, the comments that Rich Paul has made.
我们目前所看到的这一切，在多大程度上是由于勒布朗在这个联盟中年龄渐长以及这种关系模式变化所导致的后果？
How much of, you know, what we're seeing now is a, you know, a consequence to just how old LeBron is getting in this league and that relationship frame?
这很有趣，洛根，因为我们可以从时间线上的几个不同节点来分析这个问题。
It's interesting, Logan, because we could take this from a couple different points in the timeline.
对吧？
Right?
如果我们讨论的是勒布朗与湖人队之间的动态、权力关系，以及卢卡的因素，而且我们从大约一年前——无论具体是什么时候——开始说起。
If we're talking about the LeBron versus Lakers dynamics, the power dynamics of it all, the Luka of it all, and we're talking about starting about a year ago, whatever the date was.
交易是在2月2日吗？
Was it February 2 the trade?
只要卢卡一到，一切就永久改变了。
Whenever Luka arrives, things change permanently.
因为，是的，勒布朗拥有的权力和施加影响力、引导他所效力球队的能力，可能超过历史上任何一位球员。
Because, yes, LeBron has had more power and ability to flex his leverage and to steer organizations that he's with than probably any player in history.
有趣的是，你提到了这一点，洛根，湖人队历史上有着悠久的超级巨星、传奇人物、名人堂成员的传统，比如卡里姆、魔术师、杰里·韦斯特、科比、奥尼尔，等等。
And it's funny because you alluded to the fact, Logan, that the Lakers have a long history of all time superstars, legends, Hall of Famers, Kareem, Magic, Jerry West, Kobe, Shaq, on and on.
但那些是不同的时代。
But those were different times.
即使在科比和奥尼尔的时代，甚至在奥尼尔离开后科比拥有相当大话语权的时候，我认为也没有人像勒布朗这样充分展示过自己的力量。
Even in the era of Kobe and Shaq, even post Shaq when Kobe had quite a bit of authority, I think, nobody has ever flexed the muscles that LeBron has.
这就是我们称这个时代为球员赋权时代的原因。
That's why we call this the player empowerment era.
这就是我们总是提到2010年那个决定的原因。
That's why we always allude to the decision in 2010.
勒布朗以过去时代的超级巨星从未使用过的方式运用和施展了他的影响力。
LeBron has employed and applied his powers in ways that previous superstars in previous eras never did.
这对湖人队来说是全新的。
So this is new to the Lakers.
即使杰里·巴斯还活着并掌管球队，这对他来说也是全新的。
And even if Jerry Buss were still alive and running them, it would have been new to him.
这不仅仅是当前管理层的问题。
So this isn't just a current ownership issue.
这关乎勒布朗和现代超级巨星。
This is about LeBron and the modern superstar.
但我们现在真正讨论的是，因为所有这些都只是背景。
But really what we're talking about right now is because all that's in the background.
勒布朗自加盟湖人以来想要什么、不想要什么，诸如此类的事情。
What LeBron wanted, what he didn't want since he came to the Lakers, all that stuff.
目前，局势已经发生了变化。
Right now, the dynamic has changed.
一年前他们得到卢卡后，情况就变了，勒布朗突然从他们最重要的球员变成了第二重要的球员。
It changed a year ago when they got Luka, and suddenly LeBron became their only their second most important player instead of their first most important player.
卢卡代表未来，而勒布朗对他们来说正逐渐成为过去。
And Luka's the future, and LeBron is is starting to fade into the past for them.
他显然没有作为球员而衰退，因为他依然非常出色。
He's clearly not fading into the past as a player because he's he's still great.
如果他想在下个赛季继续打球，我猜他不会留在湖人队，但他依然具备竞争力。
And if he wants to play again next season somewhere, my guess is it's not the Lakers, but he's still viable.
但他已经不再是能够推动整个组织的人了。
But he is not the one who can drive the organization anymore.
如果卢卡愿意在这一方面发挥作用，那将是他的角色。
That's Luka if he chooses to engage on that front.
或者，权力可能重新回到管理层和管理层手中。
Or maybe power reverts back to ownership in the front office.
但勒布朗，以及延伸来说，里奇·保罗，我认为他们的时代已经结束了。
But LeBron and by extension Rich Paul, I think are seeing moment is over.
他们之前拥有的任何筹码或施加的任何权力，现在都已消失。
Whatever leverage they had, whatever power they were applying gone for that organization.
勒布朗在赛季结束时将成为自由球员。
LeBron is a free agent at the end of the season.
去年夏天，勒布朗并没有获得续约合同。
LeBron was not offered an extension last summer.
对此显然存在紧张关系。
There was obvious tension over that.
去年夏天，里奇·保罗就此事发布了一份很长的声明。
Rich Paul issued a very long statement last summer about that.
所以，这一切都不是秘密。
So again, none of this is hidden.
所有这些都公开摆在我们面前，我们可以通过里奇·保罗的言论和湖人队的所作所为清楚地看到，勒布朗作为球队核心的时代已经结束。
It's all out there in the open for us to see and read in the things that Rich Paul has said, in the things that the Lakers have done, that the era of LeBron as their centerpiece is already over.
我不知道这个赛季会发生什么，但我确实认为，到了夏天，他们很可能分道扬镳。
I don't know what this season will bring, but I do think that there's very good reason to believe that when the summer comes, they will probably part ways.
那不是情报。
That's not intel.
那也不值得汇总。
That's not anything to aggregate.
这甚至算不上什么惊人消息。
That's not even a revelation.
这甚至算不上有争议的观点。
That's not even a controversial opinion.
这件事显然已经走到了关系的终点，我不知道这对勒布朗意味着什么，他将去往何方，但湖人队将拥有巨额的薪金空间，还要应对奥斯汀·里夫斯的自由球员市场，而现在的挑战——不仅仅是挑战，更是义务——是围绕卢卡构建一支可行的阵容，但迄今为止，一年过去了，他们仍未做到。
It certainly seems like this thing has reached its conclusion as a relationship, and I don't know what that means for LeBron where he lands, but the Lakers are gonna have a crap ton of cap room and an Austin Reeves free agency to deal with, and the challenge now, not just the challenge, but the obligation now to build a functional roster around Luka, which to date, twelve months later, they have not done.
为了做到这一点，他们可能需要重新分配目前支付给勒布朗的那笔资金。
And to do that, they're probably gonna need to reallocate the money that's currently going to LeBron.
我只是觉得，事情的发展实在太出人意料了，因为当勒布朗在2018年签约湖人时，大家都默认他会一直待到退役。
I just think it's just I think it's a wild turn of events over the you know, because when when LeBron signed, you know, with the Lakers in 2018, everybody felt like assumed that he was going to ride it out with the Lakers.
我认为他在湖人待的时间，可能比在其他任何球队都长，除了骑士队之外。
I think he spent more time with the Lakers than he spent with any organ any other organization, probably outside of the Cavs, you know, combined.
但他对这个球队的投入程度确实超过了其他任何地方。
But he has had a, a commitment to this organization in a way that he hasn't committed to other places.
但现在，罗杰，我觉得他可能得不到他想要的东西了。
But now, like, I don't feel like he's going to get what he wants, Roger.
我觉得他想要的是一场体面的告别仪式。
Like, what he wants, I feel like, is a proper send off.
而且我认为没有其他球队能像湖人队那样给他一场真正体面的告别，尤其是在当前这个时刻。
And I don't think anyone else is gonna send have a proper send off the way the Lakers would do it, especially in this present moment.
我在想，不知道是我和你，罗杰，还是我和霍华德在讨论，哦，好吧。
I think of me and I don't know if it was me and you, Roger, or me and Howard were talking about, oh, okay.
如果他拿中产合同去丹佛，那会是个不错的告别。
If he takes the mid level and goes to Denver, like, that'll be a a good send off.
但我甚至不觉得这样的事情一定会很好，因为会有两个不同的议程在起作用。
But I don't even think something like that would be necessarily great because there's gonna be two agendas at play.
一个是勒布朗的议程，比如，我需要被庆祝。
It's gonna be the LeBron agenda of, like, I need to be celebrated.
这将是丹佛队，或者任何其他争冠球队。
It is gonna be the Denver or whoever the contender is.
他们希望在没有干扰的情况下赢得总冠军。
They want to win a title without distractions.
所以我不知道他接下来该如何平衡这一切。
So I just don't know the balance that he has going forward here.
我不知道他该怎么做。
I don't know what he does.
我觉得也许他打得太久了，现在在联盟中打球时间太长了。
I think that may maybe he's playing too this means he plays too long in the league right now.
我真的不知道这里该怎么做才好。
Like, I just don't know what is what's what to do here.
这真是件疯狂的事，让人难以理解。
It's a crazy it's a crazy thing to to try to wrap your mind around.
对吧？
Right?
勒布朗在他这个年纪打出了历史级别的表现，并且已经取得了所有成就，我们却可能讨论他是不是打得太久了。
That that LeBron playing as well as he's playing at a historical level for the age and having done everything that he's done, we could be having a conversation that maybe he's played too long.
对吧？
Right?
这听起来似乎很荒谬。
Like, that seems that seems absurd.
但如果他的最终目标是在最后一年或两年内得到他想要的一切，那么事实可能就是如此，对吗？
But if his endgame is to get every single thing he wants in his last year or two, then the fact is you probably have, right?
因为这种情况很少发生。
Because that rarely happens.
就像你很少能在离开时得到所有想要的东西，然后还能潇洒地策马远去。
Like it rarely happens that you get everything you want on your way out the door, and then you get to kind of ride off into the sunset.
我只是在努力即兴思考，有没有哪位超级巨星的结局是这样的。
Like that's I'm just trying to, on the fly, think about someone who was a megastar that had their ending play out like that.
我想不出来。
And I can't.
所以，我想说一下这一点。
So like, I want to just say this.
我想回到你提到的湖人队，因为你说得很有道理。
I want to go back to you talked about the Lakers because it was a really good point.
这就是为什么我觉得像克利夫兰这样的地方，虽然你可能仍然需要同时完成两个目标——为这支球队赢得总冠军，并以正确的方式送别勒布朗，但这两个目标并不会互相冲突、造成干扰。
You and that's why I think that a place like Cleveland, right, while while you might still be tasked with trying to trying to fulfill two agendas, winning a championship with this team, sending LeBron off the right way, and not have those agendas competing with each other that distracts.
他们仍然可以做到，而且这是一个品牌上能够容纳这种情形的市场和球队。
Like, they could still do it, and it's a market and a team that that, you know, from a brand perspective, I think you can accommodate that.
勒布朗和坎普离开迈阿密时的情况，和湖人队的情况没什么不同。
LeBron and Camp, they left like, the Miami situation at the end of that was not unlike the Lakers.
他们传统上并不是像湖人那样的联盟象征，但他们有帕特·莱利。
They had a very they're not the Lakers traditionally, you know, as a symbol of the league, but they had Pat Riley.
而他做事有自己的一套方式。
And he did shit a certain way.
他只会容忍一定程度的你提出要求、施压和争取自己想要的东西，超过这个限度他就会反击。
And he was only gonna accommodate a certain amount of you, you know, asking and pushing and and trying to get what you wanted before he was going to push back.
所以最终，这种情况走到了尽头。
And so eventually, that ran its course.
所以我只是想补充一下迈阿密的情况，因为关于湖人作为一个品牌太大、太根深蒂固，无法被这样推动，这个观点非常好。
So I I just wanted to add Miami to that because it was a great point about the Lakers as a brand too big and too established to really push them around in that way.
对吧？
Right?
但我觉得，如果你是勒布朗和他的团队——我不是在谈篮球层面，比如他如何融入球队、上场时间多少、会以什么类型球员的身份为骑士队效力，而是说他们会以正确的方式送他离开。
But I do think if if you were LeBron and and company, and I'm not talking about from a basketball, how he would fit, what his minutes would look like, what type of player he would be for the Cavs, but they would send him off the right way.
他是属于他们的。
He's theirs.
这种事情一定会发生。
Like, that that that would happen.
我不知道还有哪里能做到。
I don't know where else.
我觉得迈阿密不会这么做。
I don't think Miami would do that.
没有人会有动力去做这件事。
No one else would have the incentive to do that.
你知道，这属于梅洛所经历的那种情况。
You know, it's this falls into the category that Mello fell into.
我们之前讨论过关于罗斯的那些话题，他们之间的交流主要在球场上，但本质是一样的。
We've had about the conversations we've had about Russ, and theirs has been on the court, but it's the same thing.
一旦你超越了巅峰期，不再能像以往那样提供帮助时，你就必须放手一些你拥有的权力。
Once you're past that prime and once you're past that ability to help in the way that you traditionally have, you have to seed some of the powers that you have.
你必须放下一些原本的期望，并开始思考如何更好地融入，而不是主导一切。
You have to seed some of the some of the expectations that you have, and you have to start trying to figure out how to fit in more than dictate.
这正是他们目前所处的境况。
And that's the situation that they're in right now.
事情就是如此。
It's just what it is.
是的。
Yeah.
霍华德，你怎么看，戈阿莱·布朗身上有这么多方面？
Howard, what do you think that this that there's so many ways in Goa'Ale Brown.
我们只剩下一段内容，几分钟时间了。
We just have this we only have one segment and a few more minutes left.
但他对下一代的遗产会是什么？
But what is his legacy going to be for the next generation?
对吧？
Right?
你正处于我们所有人经历过的球员赋权时代，我认为这一代从球员角度看确实带来了一些积极影响，但也引发了反弹。
You're about the player empowerment generation that we have all lived through, that I think has done some, you know, good things for the from the player perspective, but it also led to a backlash.
对吧？
Right?
它还导致了奢侈税门槛时代的到来。
It also led to the apron era.
对吧？
Right?
这会带来什么影响？
What is that going to do?
你认为，考虑到他职业生涯中展现出的这种巨大影响力，这会对下一代球星产生帮助还是伤害？
Is it going to help or hurt, you think, the next generation of stars that, you know, this much power was exuded during his time in the league.
这很有趣，因为如果你看看现在的年轻球星的话。
It's interesting because if you look at the young stars now.
对吧？
Right?
撇开勒布朗、科怀、凯文·杜兰特、斯蒂芬以及其他还留在联盟的那一代球员不谈，他们现在都已步入生涯末期。
Like, put aside the LeBron, Kawhi, KD, Steph, whoever else is still left from that generation, who are all in their twilight now.
顺便说一句，我们还不知道快船队调查的结果，但毫无疑问，我们现在必须把科怀纳入这些讨论中。
And by the way, we don't know the outcome yet of the Clippers investigation, but damn well, we all gotta put Kawhi in these conversations now.
你看，他如此安静、毫不张扬，所有这些事情。
Like, oh, dude, it's so quiet and so unreserved and all this stuff.
有谁比科怀、比勒布朗施加了更多的筹码、更大的权力和更多的要求吗？
Like, did anybody exert more leverage, more power, more demands than Kawhi more than LeBron.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我要指出的是，勒布朗在这方面的正面和负面评价都首当其冲。
So just noting that, because LeBron takes the brunt of this positively and negatively.
他因球员赋权而受到赞誉。
He's credited for player empowerment.
他也因球员赋权而受到指责。
He's blamed for player empowerment.
他因树立了如何利用财富、天赋和影响力来发挥巨大作用的榜样而受到称赞，但同时也因人们认为这是这种权力的过度表现，或者因为有些人根本不喜欢球员拥有这种权威而承受了大量批评。
He's credited for the way that he set an example for how players can use their wealth and their talent and their importance to great effect, but he takes a lot of hits for what people might see as the excesses of that, or if they don't like the idea that players could be inflexing that authority in the first place, and a lot of people don't like it.
科怀也做了他该做的部分。
So Kawhi has done his share as well.
KD更多体现在他的移动上，而斯蒂芬则是典型的蒂姆·邓肯类型——你善待我，我就善待你，我想永远待在这儿，我很满足。
KD, more in terms of just his movement, and Steph has been the prototypical Tim Duncan type, where it's like, Do right by me, I'll do right by you, and I wanna be here forever, and I'm cool.
我是那种低维护成本的超级巨星。
I'm the low maintenance superstar type.
看看现在的年轻一代。
Look at the young generation right now.
谢伊，现任MVP。
Shay, the reigning MVP.
扬尼斯处于职业生涯中期到后期，他确实在挣扎，不确定是否要运用自己的权威影响力。
Janus is mid mid to late career, and Janus certainly, he's struggling with how to use his leverage of authority and whether or not he wants to.
约基奇、安东尼·爱德华兹、杰森·塔图姆、杰伦·布伦森。
Jokic, Anthony Edwards, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brunson.
我在想那些曾进入MVP讨论范围的球员。
I'm thinking of the guys who were in MVP conversation.
还有泰瑞斯·马克斯伊。
Throw Tyrese Maxey in there.
他这个赛季表现非常出色。
He's having a fantastic season.
杰伦·布朗，也许文班亚马很快也会加入。
Jalen Brown, maybe Wenbunyama soon or soon.
文班亚马已经达到了那个水平。
Wenbanyama's already there.
那些排在联盟前五到前十的球员中，有没有谁像勒布朗或科怀那样在展示自己的影响力？
Anybody who's in the top five to top 10 of the of the league, do any of them feel like they're doing the things flexing in the way that LeBron or Kawhi or anybody else did?
我不是说球员赋权时代已经结束了。
Like, I'm not saying the player empowerment era is over by any stretch.
与勒布朗在职业生涯同期相比，他们现在的财富达到了前所未有的高度。
They are wealthier than they have ever been at this stage of their careers compared to even where LeBron was at this stage of his career.
但我看不到那种同样的感觉，我不知道。
But I don't see that same kind of I don't know.
我我
I I
会说
would say
我得稍微反驳一下这个观点，因为如果看2020年的历史，KD当时也看起来是个不会离开的人，而且他还被称作是‘反勒布朗’。
I will I I will do a light pushback on that because if history is, history is 2020, KD also seemed like a person that wasn't gonna leave, and he was also touted as the anti LeBron.
我这么说只是为了说明，他们还年轻，所以我们还不知道，这并不是
And I only say that to say this, they're young, so we don't know It's not
但问题不只是离开。
just about leaving, though.
这不只是离开的问题，洛根。
It's not just about leaving, Logan.
而是利用将来可能离开或要求交易、逼迫交易的威胁，来获取自己想要的东西吗？
It's about using the threat of one day leaving or of asking for a trade, demanding a trade, to get the things you want?
洛根，上一次我们听到有球员——除了勒布朗——说‘你得给我弄来X、Y、Z，或者我需要这个’是什么时候？
When's the last time, Logan, we heard of any player other than LeBron say, You gotta go get me X, Y, Z, or I need this?
上一次有球员如此明显、直接地主导球队运作，让我们能清楚看到、察觉并报道出来，是什么时候？
When's the last time that was the player steering the organization in a very overt way or at least an obvious way that we could see, detect, report on?
我认为最接近的可能是扬尼斯，但那只是因为说实话，最接近的确实是扬尼斯。
I would say the closest is probably, like, Giannis, but that was only because of I think the closest was Giannis, to be honest with you.
对吧？
Right?
因为他一直有离开的威胁，而他们已经和德鲁·霍利迪达到了上限。
Because there was always a threat of him leaving, and they had kinda reached the ceiling with Drew Holiday.
他可能是那个最有可能的人。
He'd probably be the one.
但我对他的反驳是
But my my my counterpoint him
为了在前期得到德鲁。
to get Drew on the front end.
当然。
For sure.
我的反驳是，我们根本不知道这些年轻球员会怎样。
My my my counterpoint is that is we just don't know what these young guys.
对吧？
Right?
我们可以做些假设。
We can make assumptions.
当然。
Sure.
我们不知道他们会怎样。
We don't know how they're going to be.
我认为你提到的那些人大多还在新秀合同上，或者刚进入第二个合同。
I think most of those people you say are, like, on their rookie deals or probably going just into their second deals.
对吧？
Right?
所以，我不确定当情况变糟时他们会怎么做。
So, like, I don't I don't know what they're going to do when stuff gets bad.
我们确实不知道。
We don't.
另外还有一点，让我补充一下，霍华德，我希望你能说完你的想法，因为你们正在进行对话。
The other other thing, let me just add to it, Howard, I want you to finish your thought, right, because you guys are having a conversation.
但就像很多那些球员一样，他们的球队已经让他们非常非常接近那个目标，并且让他们处于那种状态。
But like a lot of those guys, their their organizations have gotten them really, really close to it and had them in that way.
而且他们中大多数人，基本上都不是那种一进联盟就是联盟门面、公认的联盟最佳球员。
And none of them, for the most part, are are like coming into the league, face of the league, best player unanimously in the league.
所以，我的意思是，这只是关于这一点的一个看法。
So like, it's not I mean, it's just a point about it.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
就像，我不确定这对它意味着什么，但那里的动态确实有点不同。
Like, I don't know what that means to it, but that certainly just a little bit different dynamic there.
你对你的球队越重要，无论是在第一天、第二份合同期间，还是在你赢得冠军之后，无论何时，当你对球队拥有最大权力或重要性时，那就是你可以开始真正尝试决定教练人选的时候。
The more important you are to your franchise, whether it's on day one or whether it's on your second contract or whether it's after you've won a championship or whatever it is, whenever you've got the most power or importance to your franchise, that's when you can start to really try to dictate who the coaches are.
而且，除了洛根提到的那些变动之外，扬尼斯确实在密尔沃基的一些教练更迭中发挥了作用。
And again, Giannis has certainly had a hand in some coaching changes in Milwaukee, in addition to the moves that Logan brought up.
我们没看到太多。
We're not seeing a lot.
乔尔·恩比德确实在费城行使了相当大的话语权，但他现在也三十多岁了。
Joel Embiid has certainly exercised a lot of authority in Philadelphia, but again, he's now in his 30s.
洛根说得对。
And Logan's right.
我应该稍微收敛一点，因为这些年轻球员还有时间去做到这一点，但我目前还没看到。
I should reel back just a little bit because there's time yet for some of these younger players to maybe do that, but I'm not seeing it yet.
所以当你问，勒布朗的遗产对球员赋权方面有什么影响时？
And so when you ask, like, what's the effect of LeBron's legacy on the player empowerment front?
有趣的是，看看这一代乃至下一代是否会像勒布朗过去在每一支球队那样，继续施加影响力。
It's interesting to see whether or not this generation, the next generation continue to throw their weight around in way that LeBron often did with every team that he's been on.
我并不是说这是正面、负面，或其他任何评价。
And I'm not saying that's positive, negative, or otherwise.
我只是说这是一个事实。
I'm just saying it's a fact.
所以我觉得这值得关注，但我觉得我们现在看到的这种情况，比五到十年前要少一些。
So it's I I I guess it bears watching, but I think we're seeing less of it right now than we did, you know, five to ten years ago.
我同意。
I would agree.
当然。
Definitely.
霍华德回来了，各位女士先生们。
Howard motherfucking back, ladies and gentlemen.
我们周二再见。
We'll see you on Tuesday.
非常感谢你们的到来。
Thanks so much for coming on.
各位，很高兴见到你们。
Gents, good to see you.
嘿，各位。
Hey, gents.
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我也很高兴见到你们。
Good to see you as well.
接下来，我们要谈谈拉吉最喜爱的话题之一：球员-only会议。
And next, we're going to talk about one of Raj's favorite subjects, players only meetings.
好的。
Alright.
我们回来了。
And we are back.
尼克斯队正处于连败中，昨晚他们以一种极其疯狂的方式输掉了比赛。
The Knicks who are in the midst of a skid, they got ended last night in just crazy fashion.
我觉得他们赢篮网队大概有50分之多。
I think they beat the nets by, like, 50 points.
那真是一场血战。
It was it was a it was a bit of a bloodbath.
但在那之前，杰伦·布伦森在尼克斯队周一晚上主场惨败给达拉斯独行侠后，召集了一次球员-only会议。
But before that, Jalen Brunson, after they the Knicks got blown out by the Dallas Mavericks at home a couple nights before on Monday night, Jalen Brunson called a players only meeting.
他受够了这些闹剧。
He was tired of the shenanigans.
他受够了所有发生的事情，特别是当尼克斯在花园球馆半场落后30分后被球迷嘘时。
He was tired of everything that was going on, when the Knicks got booed, after being down by 30 at halftime at the Garden.
他们昨晚赢了，拉贾，但你觉得尼克斯这情况到现在是不是已经让人受不了了？
They won last night, Raja, but are you does this does this is this Knicks thing just too much to bear at this point?
一月中旬召开球员-only会议，这说明球队目前处于什么状态？未来又可能走向何方？
What does the players only meeting in mid January tell you about where the team is at and where they could possibly be going?
他们能走向哪里？我的意思是，这说明他们处境并不好。
Where they could I mean, it tells you they're not in a good place.
当球队一切顺利时，是不会召开球员-only会议的。
Players players only meetings don't happen when shit's going well.
那种时候叫聚餐就行了。
Those are called like dinners.
你知道的？
You know?
那些叫出去玩儿。
Those are called nights out.
等等。
Wait.
所以这正是我想弄清楚的。
So that's what I'm trying to figure out, though.
对吧？
Right?
比如，这次球员-only会议究竟是怎么回事，我并没有掌握所有报道。
Like, did when this particular players only meeting and I don't have all the reporting.
我不是《纽约邮报》的斯蒂芬·邦迪。
I'm not, you know, Stephen Bondi of the of the New York Post.
我对尼克斯队的内部情况也没那么了解。
I'm not tapped in with the Knicks that much.
但球员-only会议可能只是像这样：嘿，杰伦，来我 locker 那边一下。
But is a players meeting only meeting could just be like, yo, Jalen just be like, hey, come to my locker real quick.
咱们直接聊聊吧。
Let's just talk some shit out.
我的意思是，你觉得这到底算什么？球员-only会议到底是什么？
Like, could it what what do you think that, like, this can what is a players only meeting?
通常来说，它到底指的是什么？
What exactly is it typically?
我的意思是，这取决于谁在报道这件事，可能有各种情况。
Well, I mean, it could be any number of things depending on who's reporting it.
对吧？
Right?
但根据我的经验，除非是某个主力球员要求，在更衣室之外召集了会议，否则一般不会被称作球员-only会议。
But typically, from my experience, it doesn't get reported as a players only meeting unless you've convened, like, outside of the locker room at a lead player's request.
而且，通常是为了处理一些不太顺利的问题。
And, you know, it's going to be to address things that aren't usually going well.
再说一遍，如果一切顺利，我们只是照常做事而已。
Again, that would just be if everything's going well, we're just we're just doing what we normally do.
这是一顿晚餐。
It's a dinner.
我们只是在外面。
We're just out.
每次客场之旅，这些几乎都是球员-only的聚会。
Those are players only meetings almost every road trip.
他们并没有提供你们的费用。
Like, they're not supplying the y'all.
是的。
Yeah.
把你的信用卡放进那个地方。
Throw your credit card in the in the thing.
也许我们可以用这个玩一把信用卡轮盘赌。
Maybe we can play some credit card roulette with that.
但我参与过的唯一一次是在夏洛特。
But but the only one that I've been a part of was with Charlotte.
事情进展得不顺利。
Things were not going well.
我忘了是谁提出来的。
I forget who called it.
可能是泰森·钱德勒或者类似的人。
It might have been Tyson Chandler or somebody like that.
那是训练结束后在会议室里进行的，目的是让大家把所有问题摆上桌面，试图找到一些共识，比如我们各自的角色是什么，以及我们希望如何打球等等。
And it was, you know, after practice in a meeting room, and it was to get everybody's cards on the table and try to find some, you know, even, you know, understanding in terms of like what roles we're gonna be and how we wanted to play and so on and so forth.
我不记得了。
And I don't remember.
这也不是世界末日。
It wasn't the end of the world.
那是在赛季初期，但当时事情的发展并不如我们所愿。
It was relatively early in the season, but it's things were not going the way we wanted them to go.
所以每当有记者报道说你们召开了球员-only会议时，是啊，老兄。
So anytime it's reported to a reporter that you're having that players only meeting, yeah, man.
如果事情进展不顺的话。
If things aren't going well.
从那里发展成什么样，我认为取决于更衣室里的人是什么样的人，取决于你拥有的领导类型。
Where it goes from there, I think depends on the type of human beings you have in that locker room, depends on, you know, the type of leadership you have in place.
你知道，如果人们就是无法调整好，这些会议就会很糟糕，因为你开了会，但下滑的势头仍在继续。
You know, depends if people just can't get right, those meetings suck because you have them and the downward spiral continues.
我认为尼克斯队不是这样的队伍。
I don't think the Knicks are built like that.
据我所见，他们有很多球员是真正关心球队的。
I think they have a lot of guys from from what I can see that care.
他们有一些球员在加入尼克斯之前就曾一起赢过球，至少在某些层面上赢过。
They have guys that have relationships prior to being Knicks that have won before in in on certain levels.
所以，我认为他们有可能从这件事中走出来并变得更好，但当你不得不召开球员-only会议时，说明你并不在好状态。
And so, you know, I think that they could come out on the other side of it better for it, but you're not in a good place when you have to have a players only meeting.
关于球员-only会议，最让我担心的是，这意味着不仅事情进展不顺、表现不佳，还反映出教练组和球队之间存在某种脱节。
And what concerns me the most about players only meetings is that means, you know, not only are things not going well and you're not producing, but it speaks to something going on and a disconnect between your coaching staff and the team.
这才是更可怕的部分，对吧？
And that's the scarier part, right?
这说明了问题，而且我可不是在瞎爆料。
It speaks And again, I'm not reporting shit.
我不知道那里到底发生了什么。
I don't know what's going on there.
但只有当那些混蛋不再认真听教练说话时，才会召开这种会议。
But they You only have those meetings when mofos ain't really locked in on what the coach is talking about anymore.
这时候就需要一个领袖站出来，试图纠正那些教练和高层说的话已经没人听进去的问题。
A leader feels necessary to get in there and try to correct some of the things that is falling on deaf ears maybe coming from coaches and and top brass.
看起来确实存在这种隔阂。
It seems like there's that divide.
你知道的，从三千英里外，我
You know, just from 3,000 miles away, I
几周前看了他们对阵勇士的比赛，那是在迈克·布朗刚因卡尔·安东尼·唐斯防守不力而训斥他之后不久。
saw them play the the Warriors a couple of weeks ago, and it was on the heels of when Mike Brown just went at Carl Towns for his lack of defense.
而且看起来确实有点过头了。
And it it did seem a little excessive.
对吧？
Right?
迈克·布朗我认为他已经从一个过去常常默默承受这些防守失误的人，转变成了一个角色——至少在克利夫兰早期，他通常只会把球员叫到一边，不公开点名批评。
And Mike Brown has I think that he has transitioned from a guy that that kinda just took a lot of these types of defensive lapses on the chin and kind like, at least in Cleveland during his early part, would just, you know, take a guy to the side, maybe, you know, not call everyone out.
但我觉得随着他作为教练逐渐成熟，他现在是一个会考验你、主动出击的人。
But I think as he is kind of matriculated as a coach, he is a guy that's gonna test you and come at you.
我在萨克拉门托看到他对德阿隆·福克斯这么做，我当时就想，哦，原来如此。
And I saw it in Sacramento with D'Aaron Fox, and I kinda had De'Aaron Fox like, oh, okay.
这和我原本以为的不一样。
This is, this is not what I thought it was.
也许我们需要重新调整一下，我作为组织内部的定位。
And maybe we we need to recalibrate, you know, my positioning here as an organization in in the organization.
当他公开点名德阿隆的时候，这标志着他的终结开始了。
It was the beginning of the end for him when he called De'Aaron out.
而且你开始看到这种明显的脱节，至少在外表上，体现在这支尼克斯队身上。
And you're starting to see that kind of disconnect, at least outwardly, with this Knicks, team.
这正是我想问你的。
And this is what I wanna ask for you.
我知道并不是所有的点名批评都是一样的。
What is it I know that all callouts aren't created equal.
但当一个教练反复点名批评你时，我觉得这会对你的心理造成影响，因为这感觉像是家事被公之于众。
But when a coach calls you out repeatedly, I feel like that does something to your psyche when you have to it feels like family business is going out to into the world.
你认为这对球队现在造成了怎样的影响？
How does that you think that has affected this team right now?
那么，作为一名教练，真正该怎么做才对呢？
And, like, how what is the way to actually do it if you're a coach?
因为现在场上球员和教练之间似乎正出现越来越大的裂痕。
Because it feels like there is a growing divide between the players on the court and their coach right now.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，显然，把某人公开点名并把内部问题暴露给球迷群体，应该是最后的手段。
I I mean, I think, obviously, calling someone out to the media and put airing your business to a fan base is last resort.
我的意思是，在至少我所认为的健康组织里，这种情况会发生在之后。
I mean, that would happen after, at least for me, healthy organizations.
我们已经就这个问题进行了多次讨论。
We've had numerous conversations about this.
比如，作为球员，你已经得到了充足的时间去调整行为、达成共识，或者做任何你需要做的事。
Like, we've had and given you as the player ample time to like curb behavior or get on the same page or what have you.
如果我要把这件事公之于众，那说明我已经黔驴技穷了。
If I'm going to put that out to the media, I'm basically at my wit's end.
或者，我只是犯了个错误。
Or I just made a mistake.
你知道，有时候这种情况也会发生。
You know, and that happens too sometimes.
有时候你上台发言，他们也是普通人，可能会一时失言，说了些不该说的话。
Sometimes you get up there, they're human beings, they might slip and say some shit they're not supposed to say.
但大体上来说，你知道上台要说什么，也清楚自己会那么做。
But like, for the most part, you know what you're gonna say when you get up there, you know you're gonna do that.
这是因为问题一直存在，悬而未决。
And it's because this has been festering, lingering.
我们已经处理过，但毫无进展。
We've addressed it, and it's not gotten anywhere.
所以我们只能采取最后的手段了。
And so we're at our last resort.
我只是想说，而且
I would just say, and
我不了解，我没有关注尼克斯队的情况。
I don't look, I'm not tapped in with the Knicks.
你知道，他们不是我作为球迷会关注的球队。
I don't you know, they're not the team that I'm watching as a fan.
所以我对他们的日常动态没有那么了解。
And so I'm not as dialed into the day to day.
但说实话，我了解这种氛围。
But like, I know this dynamic.
当你有像蒂布斯这样的人时，对吧？
When you have somebody like Tibbs, right?
尽管他在进攻端没什么存在感，但据我所知，他一直以来都死死盯着球员，要求他们拼劲十足、打得强硬、防守到位。
For all that he wasn't on the offensive side of the ball, I've only known him historically to be in your ass at all times about playing hard, playing tough, and defending.
所以当你一直听到这样的信息时，即使语气稍微大一点，你也不会觉得被冒犯，因为你已经习惯了。
And so when that is the consistent message that you're getting, you don't become offended if it gets just a little bit louder because you're used to that.
但如果你把天平完全倒向另一边，比如迈克·德安东尼那种‘我们主打进攻’的风格。
But if you swing the pendulum, and I have Mike D'Antoni kinda as like, we're gonna be offense.
通常，进攻型教练会更随性、更注重氛围、更放手，给你更多自由。
Typically, offensive coaches are way more laid back, way more vibes, way hands off, if you will, freedom.
你知道的吧？
You know?
这对进攻来说是件好事。
And that's a great thing for offense.
但如果你转向这种风格，比如现在作为尼克斯队，这只是我的推测。
But like if you swing the pendulum to that, where like now as a Knicks team, and this is me hypothesizing.
我并不在那儿。
I'm not there.
但如果我们主打氛围，专注于打造这套进攻体系，而这正是我被招来要纠正的地方，我们已经开始让它看起来好了一些，所有这些都在发生。
But like if we are vibes and we're gonna get this offense together, and that's what we're talking about most of the time because that's what I've been brought in here to correct, and we've started to get it looking a little bit better, and all that's happening.
而你有一个球员，他本身并不是出色的防守者，这也不是他最在意的事情。
And you have a player who inherently isn't like a great defender and really could like, that's not what he cares about the most.
如果你反过来因为防守问题对他发火，他会想：‘你搞什么鬼？’
If you then turn around and snap on him in a way about that defense, it's like, yo, what the fuck?
嘿，兄弟。
Hey, bro.
放松点。
Like, chill out.
因为他不习惯你这样对待他。
Because he's not used to being dealt with like that by you.
你知道吗？
You know?
所以，我不知道发生了什么，但要为迈克找到那个平衡点，那个最佳状态，因为他过去是个防守型的人。
And so, you know, I I don't know what's going on, but finding that balance, that sweet spot for Mike, because he used to be a defensive guy.
他过去是个硬汉，你知道的，然后他在萨克拉门托带过那些进攻型球队，他也待过一些地方，还在金州勇士待过。
He used to be a tough ass, like, you know, and then he had those offensive teams in in sack, and he's been around a little bit, and he he was in Golden State.
但是，你不能让那个钟摆朝一个方向摆得太远。
But, like, you can't let that pendulum swing too far one way to the other.
平衡是关键。
Balance is key.
所以，对于像唐斯这样的人来说，尤其是他这种天生不以防守见长的球员，信息传递必须始终保持一致。
So, like, the messaging has to consistently, you know, to someone like Kat, especially someone like Kat who isn't a defender by nature.
如果你手下已经有愿意防守的球员，那你两周内都不用跟他强调防守问题。
If if you have someone that already wants to play D, well, you cannot address defense with him for two weeks.
之后你再回头提这个，他也不会轻易放过这个细节。
And you could come back to that, and he's not gonna, like, let that slide.
他很在意这一点。
He cares about it.
这并非对卡尔-安东尼·唐斯的不敬。
This is no slight to Karl Anthony Towns.
NBA中有很多球员根本不在乎防守。
There are plenty of players in the NBA who don't give a fuck about playing a defense.
但我想说的是，我真的和一些人一起打过球，他们确实对我说过，嘿，有时候要求某人防守就会影响他们的进攻。
But I'm saying I've played with dudes legitimately, literally, that have said to me, hey, sometimes asking somebody to play defense is just taken away from their offense.
就像一位顶级NBA球员告诉我的那样。
Like, high level NBA player told me that.
所以我说这些的意思是，你必须在这方面保持平衡，并且要对那些可能对你要求的事情不那么感兴趣的人保持一致性。
So all I'm saying I'm saying all of this to say that you have to have balance with that, and you have to be consistent with someone who isn't interested in maybe doing those things to the level that you need them to be doing it at.
因为如果你不这样做，然后突然因为这个对球员发火，可能会让对方觉得，兄弟，他简直是在找茬。
Because if you're not, and then you turn around and snap on that player because of that, it could be met with some kind of like, man, he's fucking tripping, bro.
就像，我不是说……但如果你一直在这方面督促他，通常就不会有那种下意识的抵触反应了。
Like, I'm not but if you're consistently on him about it, then you typically don't get that knee jerk response.
如果你真的这么做了，那可能说明你根本就需要把他换掉。
And if you do, then it's probably somebody you need to get up out of there anyway.
是的。
Yeah.
我的担忧是，现在才一月份。
My concern is that it's only January.
你知道的？
You know?
这是你第一年的一月份，就已经发生这种情况了。
Like, this is January of your first year, and this is happening.
而且我知道迈克，我知道他一直都在紧盯你的防守。
And I I mean and I know Mike, and I know that he is always on your ass about defense.
不管怎样，这都是他最看重的事。
No matter what, that is his number one thing.
问题是，他手底下真的没有特别出色的防守球员。
The problem is he just doesn't have really great defenders.
你知道吧？
You know?
你看，他最出色的球员们都是这样。
Like, you look at that, he he does of his best players.
他的两个最佳进攻球员，杰伦·布伦森和卡尔·安东尼·唐斯，防守都不怎么样。
Like, his two best offensive players are not very good defenders in Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns.
你看那场独行侠的比赛，球员们都在挡拆后从克莱·汤普森身下钻过去，让他在三分线外投篮。
Like, you look at that, Mavericks game, like, guys are going under screens on Klay Thompson for, behind a three point line.
就是一些很基础的东西。
Just simple stuff.
对吧？
Right?
我知道布伦森脚踝有伤，这严重影响了他的防守表现。
And I know, Brunson is hindered by an ankle injury, and that's really hindering his defense right now.
但至于唐斯，你一眼就能看出来。
But with Carl Towns, like, you see it.
看起来这一切都让他头脑发热了。
It seems like all of this is getting to his head.
你知道，我们之前谈过他的防守问题，但他的进攻问题现在同样糟糕。
You know, we talked about, his defensive struggles, but his offensive struggles are just as as as bad right now.
对吧？
Right?
他数据是上去了，但你仔细看，就会发现他总在错误的时间吃到一些奇怪的进攻犯规。
He's he's putting up numbers, but, like, if you look at it, you know, he's getting the the the weird offensive fouls at the wrong time.
对吧？
Right?
他完全乱了阵脚。
He's flailing.
他会在角落里投出一些怪异的三分，然后还踢人裆部。
He's, shooting weird threes in the corner and then kicking people in the nuts.
对吧？
Right?
像这样的事情现在正在发生。
Like, t things like that are hap are happening right now.
而且你可以看出来，至少从他的表现来看，他心里有事，因为你可以对他的防守说任何话。
And you could see that, at least based on his play, that something's in his head because I mean, you can say what you want about his defense.
他是一名远超寻常的进攻型球员。
He's a for more than formidable offensive player.
就在几周前，我还看到他拿了二十个篮板和二十次得分，当他想成为这样的球员时，他确实是个非常出色的进攻型球员。
He just I I saw him get twenty and twenty a couple of weeks He's really good and a refined offensive player when he wants to be one.
你可以明显看到这些事开始影响他的心态。
And you could just see this kinda going into his head.
我除了这些之外没什么更多可说了。
It's a I don't have much beyond this.
这简直就像一部引人入胜的肥皂剧。
It's a fascinating, you know, soap opera.
我们上一个段落刚讨论过一个类似的。
We just talked about one in the last segment.
所以我只是觉得我们应该继续关注这件事。
So I just think we should just keep our eyes on this.
另一个引人入胜的肥皂剧。
Another fascinating soap opera.
本·克鲁兹也在解说，我觉得他挺可怜的。
And Ben Cruz is on the call, and I feel sad for him.
他现在最好赶紧退出，因为我马上要 briefly 谈谈他的勇士队。
He should probably get off of it right now because I'm about to talk about his warriors for a quick second.
前几天我去看了比赛，这件事明天就会公布。
I was at the game the other night, and this is this is gonna come out tomorrow.
所以我们看看今晚对阵独行侠会发生什么，你知道的。
So we'll see what happens, you know, tonight against the the Mavericks.
但我当时在现场，库明加在球队落后30分时，获得了16年来的首次上场时间，然后他拿到了斯塔比，我能要
But I was at the game, and Kuminga got his first got his first bit of playing time in 16 games, when the team was down 30 and got Stubby, can I get
你是不是在试探我，兄弟？
Maybe you're trying me, brother?
说吧，兄弟。
Go ahead, man.
我能先说一下重点吗？我想问你个问题。
Can I can I get the point and I'm gonna ask you the question?
是的。
Yeah.
来吧。
Come on.
说吧。
Go ahead.
说吧。
Go ahead.
所以他上场了，对吧，当时球队落后30分。
So he gets in the game, right, and they're down 30.
他在下半场得了20分，帮助勇士队将分差缩小到11分，但最终还是被对手以20分的优势击败。
And he gets, you know, he gets 20 points in the second half, helps the Warriors cut the lead down to 11, before they got blown out by 20.
你到处都能看到这种肥皂剧般的剧情。
And you see the soap opera everywhere.
你看到史蒂夫了，我稍后会谈到他。
You see Steve, who I'll talk about in a second.
我有一些报道内容，想进一步补充我在某篇文章中写过的内容。
I had some reporting that I wanna give even more context to, in something that I wrote.
但你看到史蒂夫·科尔，他一直与库明加关系紧张。
But you see Steve Kerr, on one side who has been at odds with Kuminga.
而在替补席的另一侧，你看到乔·拉科布，每次库明加得分时他都挥拳庆祝，包括一次压哨球将分差缩小到一定程度。
And then on the other side of the bench, you see Joe Lacob who was pumping his fist every single time Kuminga makes a play, including a buzzer beater to cut the lead.
我想分差大概缩小到了15分左右。
I think it was to, like, 15 or something like that.
那其实是一次垃圾时间的进球。
It was very much garbage time type of play.
那是我在 Chase Center 赛季里听到过最响亮的欢呼之一。
And it was one of the loudest cheers that I've heard in Chase Center of the season.
哇。
Wow.
这简直太不可思议了。
And it was it was just incredible.
我真的不知道勇士队接下来该怎么办。
I just don't know where the the Warriors go from here.
这可能是我长期以来见过的最恶劣的环境之一。
This is probably one of the most toxic type of environments that I've seen in a long time.
但这能说明什么？关于他们现在的处境，球迷们为何如此欢呼，老板为何如此激动，而你们却依然对勇士队感到困惑？
But what does that tell you about where they are, where the fans are cheering in the way that they are, the owner is cheering in the way that he is, and you're still lost by Dub?
他们只是普通人，负责执教、打球和管理球队。
They're human beings coaching, playing, running organizations.
有时候事情会变得个人化。
Shit gets personal sometimes.
有时候你无法接受，你的老教练在说什么？
Sometimes you can't like, what's your old coach is saying?
他叫什么来着？
What's your what what's his name?
我到现在应该知道他的名字了
I should know his name by now
因为我们教练是阿隆佐·卡特，萨特黄蜂队的。
because we Coach Alonzo Carter Sacks State Hornets.
阿隆佐·卡特。
Alonzo Carter.
把你的情绪都抛到一边去。
Get your feelings out the shit.
我的意思是，是的。
I mean, yeah.
但显然，金州队并没有采取这种做法，因为情感因素已经掺杂进来了。
But clearly, that's not the approach that's been taken in Golden State because feelings are in it.
而且这已经变得很个人化了。
And and that's it's personal.
对吧？
Right?
比如，我们可以喜欢还是怎么着？
Like, we could like or what what?
我的意思是，我觉得我知道我在说什么。
I mean, I feel like I know I'm saying it.
我没有深入了解，但是人们无法同意这一点。
I'm not tapped into, like, but but people can't agree to that.
难道只有我一个人这么说吗？
Like, am I the only person saying this?
人们告诉我，那个家伙在球队里篮球打得那么差，以至于他只能在那该死的垃圾时间上场。
This is people are telling me that that dude is that bad of a basketball player on that fucking team that he's relegated to only getting in in those fucking minutes.
难道只有我这个混蛋在这里这么说吗？
I'm the only asshole out here saying that?
你不是唯一的混蛋。
You're not the only asshole out there.
那儿有很多混蛋在说
There's plenty of assholes out there saying
这个。
that.
是的。
Yeah.
因为，这事儿太疯狂了。
Because, like, that shit's crazy.
我是史蒂夫·科尔的粉丝。
Like, you know, and I'm a fan of Steve Kerr.
我喜欢金州勇士队所做的一切，但他们确实管理得不好。
Like, I like what Golden State's done, but, like, they've mismanaged that.
他确实如此。
He so yeah.
库明加和他的团队也是如此。
Kuminga and his camp have as well.
呃，让我别说了，因为确实如此。
Like, let me let me not because, like Absolutely.
这是双向的，但这也太乱了。
That's a two way street, but that's a mess.
不过，我的观点是这样，老兄。
My thing is this though, man.
如果你不喜欢他，早就该把他交易走了。
If you didn't like him, trade him years ago.
对吧？
Right?
如果你真的达成了共识，就让他自便好了。
If you if you did just come to a consensus and just let him go about his way.
对吧？
Right?
我们会知道的
And we'll You know what
但我喜欢什么呢？
I love, though?
你知道我喜欢什么吗，洛根？
You know what I love, Logan?
对不起，道格，我有点激动了。
I'm sorry, Doug, I got a little heat.
我喜欢的是，嘿，肯定有市场。
I love the, hey, there gotta be a market.
但你看。
But look.
那是一个
That was a
不过有点奇怪。
little funny, though.
我当时就在那个房间里。
I was in the I was in the room with that.
没问题，迈克。
Was fine, Mike.
挺好。
Fine.
对吧？
Right?
挺好，伙计。
Fine, dude.
我们明白你的意思。
We got you.
但现在呢，因为这件事已经变成这样一团糟，市场可能已经不像它该有的样子了。
But like now, right, because of the shit show that you that this has become, like the market might not be what it should be.
但你是说，以前根本没机会为他拿到点什么吗？
But you're telling me there wasn't a time where you could have got something for him?
那个情境下的意思是，你可能没为他争取到所有想要的东西。
The The the context within that is like, you might not have gotten all that you wanted to get for him.
你这是在设定市场的价格。
Like, you're setting the fucking market.
你明白我在说什么吗？
Do know what I'm saying?
那时候其实是有市场的。
Like, there was some market for that.
你不能
Well You can't
别想说服我那时候没有。
convince me that there wasn't.
我想对这一点提供一些背景。
I wanna give some context to that.
这并不一定是迈克·邓德比的事。
And that that isn't a necessarily a Mike Dundleby thing.
这是乔·拉科布的事。
It's a Joe Lakob thing.
这就是为什么我展示时让乔·拉科布成为那个振臂欢呼的人。
That's why that's why I presented it with Joe Lakob being the one that's fist pumping.
就像，是的。
Like, yeah.
就像，我是对的，因为你知道，他拿到了那个蜂鸣器计量器。
Like, I was right because, you know, he you know, we got the he got the buzzer meter.
他正在做所有这些事情。
He's doing all these things.
我是对的。
I was right.
但这确实显示了围绕卡梅哈一直存在的内部斗争。
But you that really showed just the infighting that's always been around when it comes to Kamehka.
他们试图去尝试进行交易，甚至尝试提出交易的话题。
They try to go try to make a trade or try to even broach the topic of making a trade.
然后乔·莱格特就说，不行，我们不会那么做。
And you have Joe Leggett like, nope, we're not doing that.
他将会成为，而且就在昨天，我发表了一篇文章，讨论我们现在所谈论的这种整体毒性。
He's gonna be a He's going to be and that and that's like yesterday, I put out a piece, a column talking about just the overall this toxicity that we're talking about right now.
但文章里有一张图表，提到许多围绕史蒂夫·科尔的人，包括他的多位助教，都认为他明年不会回来。
But there was a graph in there where I talked about a lot of people around Steve Kerr, including a lot of his assistant coaches, are operating under the premise that he's not gonna be back next year.
但其中很大一部分原因在于，他觉得自己的声音不再像以前那样被重视，因为管理层的强势控制。
But a lot of that has to do with the fact that he doesn't feel like, you know, his voice is mattering as much as it used to because of the firm grip.
还有，我们看到的，他真的想处理德雷蒙德的问题吗？
That and also what we've seen with, you know, does he wanna deal with Draymond?
他真的想应对这个赛季一直发生的各种纷扰吗？
Does he wanna deal with just everything that is just going on throughout this season?
对吧？
Right?
我可以选择辞职，或者去圣地亚哥的海滩放松，再也不用管这些事了。
And, like, I could take the bag or I can go to a beach in San Diego and just chill and just not have to deal with this anymore.
现在我们正开始看到这些迹象逐渐浮现。
And that's the things that we're starting to see coming into fold right now.
这个组织内部的压力实在太大了。
It's just so stressful within that organization.
气氛很紧张。
It is tense.
以前去查尔斯或奥拉克尔，氛围都很好。
It used to be you go to Chase, you go to Oracle, it's vibes.
太棒了。
It's awesome.
现在呢，我明显不喜欢卡明加，卡明加也明显不喜欢我。
Now it's just like, I clearly don't like, Caminga's like, I clearly don't like you.
你明显也不喜欢我。
You clearly don't like me.
我们到底在干什么？
What are we doing?
对吧？
Right?
然后你还把吉米·巴特勒的伤病加在上面。
And then you put the Jimmy Butler injury on top of that.
这真的很难。
It's really tough.
我都不知道发生了什么。
I don't even know what's going on.
当时我在那儿的时候，情况确实很艰难。
It was but it was it was tough the other night when I was there.
是的。
Yeah.
这真不幸。
That's unfortunate.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，再说一遍，我不想把这仅仅归咎于他们，全都是他们的错。
I mean, again, I don't wanna paint this as as just a a a issue, and it's all their fault.
显然，他和他的团队在这方面也有责任。
Like, obviously, him and his team are are culpable in this too.
但整个情况管理得一塌糊涂，令人遗憾，而且在我看来，尽管这话可能很谦虚，但本是可以避免的。
But all the way mismanaged and unfortunate and and and in my estimation, as humble as it is, probably avoidable.
如果，对吧？
If if right?
比如，如果我们都能步调一致，管理得当，这事本是可以避免的。
Like, if if we were all on the same page and we were being run well, avoidable.
这真让人沮丧。
And that sucks.
我的观点是，不过。
My thing is this, though.
我们之所以不谈这个，是因为我们有更重要的事情要讨论，比如本周的某件事，几分钟后就讲。
And we we don't talk about it because we have more important things to discuss, like, one of the week in about five minutes.
但我觉得，这正是王朝衰落的方式。
But my thing with this is this is how dynasties end.
这都是由一堆微不足道的琐事累积起来的。
It's over a lot of just trivial bullshit that just adds up.
对吧？
Right?
就像，这也没什么大不了的。
Like, it's just okay.
我们俩合不来。
We don't don't vibe.
你跟这支即将上场的队伍合不来。
You don't vibe with this roster coming.
好吧。
Okay.
我们还是让你走吧。
Let's just send you about your way.
对吧？
Right?
但这听起来很简单。
But that sounds simple.
但当你谈到房间里那些像拉科布这样的人时，他们觉得自己比篮球专业人士懂得还多。
But then when you talk about all the personalities that are in the room that are like, you know, Lakob, I know more than the basketball people.
然后史蒂夫会说：兄弟，我拿了10个冠军。
And then it's Steve who's like, bro, I won, 10 titles.
我做过这一切。
I've I've done all of this.
对吧？
Right?
邓拉维夹在中间，却没有鲍勃·迈尔斯来协调大家，说：嘿，别担心，一切都会好起来的。
Dunlavy's caught in the middle of it without Bob Myers to kind of make sure to put everybody in the room and be like, yo, it's gonna be alright, guys.
让我们让更冷静的人来主导局面吧。
Let's just let's let cooler heads prevail.
但问题是，当你们在一段关系中相处这么久，那些小事就会慢慢累积起来。
But it's just that it's when you're around each other this long in a relationship, the little the the little things add up.
我认为这正是我们在这里看到的情况。
And I think that's just what we're seeing here.
库明加现在就是这个问题的代表。
And Kuminga is the face of it right now.
吉米·巴特勒的伤病也雪上加霜，我们在上一期聊过，但那里真的太艰难了，伙计。
And the Jimmy Butler injury doesn't help because we talked about it in the last episode, but it's just tough there, man.
我只是觉得，到处都是沮丧的脸。
I don't it's just so many sad faces.
不。
No.
这太糟了。
That sucks.
而且，说实话，我为他们所有人感到难过，因为我从不希望看到这样的内耗。
And, I mean, I I feel bad for all of them because I never wanna see, you know, dysfunction like that.
我知道身处那种环境是什么感觉，真的很难受。
Like, I I know what it feels like to be in that, and it it sucks.
但我最同情的人，我再重申一次，是那种像斯蒂芬一样做了所有事情，还在这个年纪、这个水平上坚持拼搏的人，想到他身处这样的境地，我感觉特别难受。
But the person I feel the worst for, I will say again, is like someone who has done everything that Steph has done and is still doing what he's doing at this age at his level, it just feels exponentially I feel exponentially worse for him that he's in that.
是的。
Yep.
这真不容易。
It's tough.
这真不容易。
It's tough.
好吧。
Alright.
我们来聊聊本周最佳吧。
Let's do own of the week.
准备好了吗？来聊聊本周最佳？
Ready to do our own of the week?
是的，老兄。
Yeah, dog.
走吧，兄弟。
Let's go, bro.
你上周的亮点是
What was your own of
什么？
the week?
这个对我来说很简单。
This is an easy one for me.
大学橄榄球季后赛刚刚结束。
It's a college football playoffs just wrapped up.
哦。
Oh.
我的狗说嘿。
My dog told hey.
我狗几年前就让你去搜索他了。
My dog told you to Google him years ago.
当人们问他如何吸引球员加入他的球队时，他说，他赢球。
Like, when people asked about how he was getting people to come to his team, he said, he wins.
搜索我。
Google me.
库尔特·西内蒂，今年大学橄榄球全国冠军印第安纳胡斯kers队的主教练。
Kurt Signetti, head coach of the Indiana Hoosiers, this year's college football national champions.
我原本觉得迈阿密飓风队会赢。
I had the Miami Hurricanes winning.
他们稍微差了一点，但还是要向你们致敬，兄弟，你还好吗？
They they came up a little bit short, but hat tip to to to Were you okay, bro?
他们确实赢了。
They did.
你还好吗？
Were you okay?
这是
This is
我说，伙计。
I said, man.
我是说，看在上帝的份上，我骨子里是个迈阿密球迷，但我也是德克萨斯橄榄球的粉丝。
I'm But look, I'm a Miami fan at heart, but I am a Texas football fan.
所以，就像，如果迈阿密飓风队没和德克萨斯队打，我就会为他们加油。
So like I cheer for the Hurricanes, you know, if they ain't playing Texas.
但我的热血已经不再为橙绿两色沸腾了。
But, like, my blood ain't running orange and green anymore.
现在我的热血流淌的是鸟橙色。
It's running bird orange.
你能懂我的意思吗？
Can you dig what I'm saying?
这些天我满脑子都是鸟橙色，显而易见。
I'm just running bird orange these days, duh.
但库尔特·西格蒂真是个狠人。
But Curtis Ignetti is a g.
就像，他可能没有得到他认为应该得到的机会，于是决定走一条艰难的道路，从底层做起，比如在大学橄榄球的次级联赛中执教。
Like, wasn't getting the opportunities probably that he thought that he should get and decided he was going to take the hard way and come up through the ranks like coaching at sub levels of of, you know, college football.
是的。
Yeah.
但在此之前，他曾在——我忘了他去詹姆斯麦迪逊大学之前是在哪里了，对吧？
But even before that, he was at, I forget where he was before James Madison, right?
就像他在进入六强联盟之前还在其他地方待过，但无论去哪里他都能赢。
Like he was somewhere else before he got to the group of six, but he just wins everywhere he goes.
这真的很了不起。
And that's pretty remarkable.
费尔南多·门多萨，也要向他致敬。
Fernando Mendoza, shout out like to him too.
他是从我们老家来的。
He's from the crib.
他的故事引起了我的共鸣，对吧？
His story was one that resonates with me, right?
因为我知道，不管多厉害的明星新秀，都没机会去迈阿密那样的学校。
Because like, I know whatever star recruit, like didn't have the options to go to the Miamis of the world.
他在赛后采访中也提到过。
And he even said it in his post game.
他们连当免费球员都不想要他，诸如此类的事。
Like, they didn't want me as a walk on and shit like that.
而他不得不靠自己打拼出来。
And, you know, he had to make himself.
所以，作为一个也经历过这些的人，我非常欣赏他们两人，费尔南多和库尔特。
And so, you know, as someone who had to do that, I appreciate that for both of them, Fernando and Kurt.
所以本周的真正王牌是库尔特·西涅蒂，本周真正王牌第二部分，或者说是第二位：费尔南多·门多萨。
So like real one of the week Kurt Signetti, Real One of the Week part b or number two, Fernando Mendoza.
当然。
For sure.
我当然也要把我的致敬送给门多萨。
I'm a give mine to and, you know, shout out for shout out Mendoza.
他展现了一些斗志。
He shows some heart.
我希望他能改变整个球队。
I hope he I hope he changes the franchise.
你知道的？
You know?
你知道的？
You know?
我希望一切顺利。
I hope he hope it works out.
你知道的？
You know?
一个5胜12负的赛季即将到来。
Five and twelve season on the way.
如果我们2胜14负的时候你没跟上，就别在我们3胜13负的时候才来凑热闹。
If you weren't on the bandwagon when we were two and 14, don't come on the bandwagon when we three and 13.
好吧？
Okay?
就是别这么做。
Just don't do it.
行吗？
Alright?
别这么做。
Don't do it.
别这么做。
Don't do it.
我这一周的榜样是大坂直美。
My ruler of the week is one Naomi Osaka.
你知道吗？
You know?
我今天不得不穿上这身装备，你知道的。
I had to, you know, wear the gear today.
你知道吗？
You know?
她——他们，她正在澳网大放异彩，却遭到各种非议。
She they they she's she's balling at the Australian Open and just getting hate.
他们当时在批评她的穿着打扮。
They was they was hating on how she dressed.
然后今天早上，我起床就看到新闻，他们又在攻击她了——你看到昨晚发生的事了吗？
And then this morning, I get up and I wake up to some news that they're hating on her again because did you see did you see what happened last night?
你看到那个 你看到
Did you see the did you see
她和别人的交流了吗？
the exchange with her?
好的。
Okay.
没有看完整场比赛，但我看到了
Didn't watch the whole didn't watch the whole match, but I see
我没看比赛，你知道的，她的对手很生气，因为她一直在局间喊‘加油’。
I didn't watch well, you know, her opponent was mad that she kept saying, come on in between sets.
拜托，兄弟。
Like, come on, bro.
加油啊，兄弟。
Come on, bro.
我们在搞什么啊，老兄？
What are we doing, dude?
什么
What are
我们在做什么？
we doing?
公平地说，那个女孩在抱怨她在发球间隙做这件事。
Well, in fairness, the girl the girl was she was complaining that she was doing it in between serves.
但是，你甚至还没进入发球模式呢。
But, like, you're not even in your service mode.
你看，你还没拿到球呢。
Like, you're not you you ain't got the ball yet.
你还没进入发球前的准备状态。
You're not in your pre serve routine.
哎呀，老兄。
Like, come on, dog.
我同意，但我是说，我就觉得有点奇怪。
I'm with But, you on like, I'm with I just hairs.
我希望它能
I want it to
但别这样，兄弟。
be but come on, bro.
我明白你的意思。
I get what you're saying.
但说真的，别这样，伙计。
But, like, come on, man.
还有，你一直在抱怨这些。
Also, you complaining all that.
你把自己搞得心神不宁，影响了比赛。
You're getting yourself psyched out of the game.
看看比分牌。
Look at the scoreboard.
专注于比赛。
Focus on the game.
专注于这场对决。
Focus on the match.
是的。
Yeah.
这更多反映的是你心理韧性不足，而不是娜奥米直接做了什么。
That speaks more to your lack of, like, mental toughness than it does to, like, anything Naomi was doing straight up.
是的，老兄。
Yeah, man.
你知道吗，人们说她是个矛盾体，因为她在这里公然展示这些东西。
You know, people telling that she's like, she's a a contradiction because she's she coming out here putting that shit on.
你知道吧？
You know?
你刚看到那个了吗？
Did you just see that?
去谷歌搜一下。
Google it.
没有。
No.
才不是呢。
Ain't.
他们在这里诋毁娜奥米，而我在这里告诉你，责任到此为止。
I'm They not gonna they out here hating on Naomi, and I'm here to tell you the buck stops here.
我们在这里支持娜奥米。
We out we we riding for Naomi out here.
他们在抱怨她的出场。
They hating on her entrance.
她就是这么穿的，老兄。
She putting that shit on, man.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
她在那里做了什么？
What did she do there?
我得去查一下。
I have to look this up.
她在出场时做了什么？
What did she do in her entrance?
我们的行为是怎样的？
Like, what did we do?
我们冒犯了谁？
Who have we offended by this?
我们得罪了网球
We've offended the the tennis
观众，温布尔登的观众？
crowd, the Wimbledon crowd?
老兄，她穿着水母灵感的流动绿白套装走出来，配着一顶冰蓝色的教堂帽，然后她就这么把她的造型穿出来了。
Man, she walked out with the jellyfish inspired flowing green and white outfit accompanied by one of them church hats that was icy and then had a And just like she had she put her fit on.
就像他们讨厌她，就像他们讨厌塞雷娜那样，就像他们讨厌维纳斯那样。
Like, they they hating on her the way they hated on Serena, the way they hated on Venus.
我们知道什么时候
We know what time
到了
it is.
我就是这个意思
It's all I'm saying.
好吗？
Okay?
这根本就不是关于比赛的事。
It ain't even about the game.
明白吗？
Alright?
明白吗？
Alright?
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Alright.
向娜奥米·萨尔特致敬。
Shout out shout out to Naomi Salute.
别再道歉了，娜奥米。
Don't be apologizing no more, Naomi.
我在新闻发布会上见过她，我很欣赏她。
Like, I seen her at the press conference, and I appreciate.
我觉得她处理得非常好。
I thought she handled it really well.
但别向那些人道歉。
But don't be apologizing to them folks.
你们都需要道歉。
You all gotta apologize.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我道歉。
I apologize.
嘿。
Hey.
嘿。
Hey.
她赢了之后做了一个特技。
She did she did a stunt after she won.
拿到握手后，她就说，‘管他呢。’
After she got the handshake, she was like, oh, whatever.
是的。
Yeah.
管他呢。
Whatever.
你本该如此。
As you should.
好吧。
Alright.
本周真正的赢家是奥梅奥·萨卡。
Real winner of week now, Omeo Saka.
你知道现在几点了。
You know what time it is.
这又是《真实之人》的一期节目。
That has been another edition of Real Ones.
我们周二再见。
We will see you again on Tuesday.
RealOnesMailbag@Gmail.com。
RealOnesMailbag@Gmail.com.
RealOnesMailbag@OnesMailbagatGmail.com。
RealOnesMailbag@OnesMailbagatGmail.com.
我们会努力回答你们的问题。
We are going to make a great effort to answer your questions.
我们在努力了，兄弟。
We're trying, bro.
我们在努力。
We're trying.
我不知道你想要我A什么
I don't know what you want me A
会做出巨大努力。
great effort will be made.
会做出巨大努力。
A great effort will be made.
是的。
Yeah.
今天我就这些了。
That's all I got for today.
关注一下，所有那些事儿。
Tap in, all the shits.
再见。
Bye.
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