本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
最近咋样？
What's poppin'?
废墟。
Ruins.
具体说，是夜幕下的废墟。
Ruins after dark, to be specific.
我是洛根·默多克。
Logan Murdock here.
拉贾·贝尔和霍华德·比克马上就到。
Raja Bell and Howard Beck in a second.
咱们聊聊今晚所有的比赛。
We talk about all of the Friday slate.
聊聊文班亚马的统治表现。
We talk about Wembany's dominance.
尼克斯队直接杀进76人队的训练基地，当着蒂莫西·萨洛姆和所有尼克斯球迷的面，把他们打得毫无还手之力。
We talk about the Knicks just taking all over the Sixers facilities and just beating them to a pulp in front of Timothy Salome and all the rest of the Knicks fans.
不好意思，Cliff。
Sorry, Cliff.
不过你没事的。
You'll be alright though.
你的未来一片光明。
I've a bright future ahead of you.
接着我们聊聊反派，也就是俄克拉荷马城，还有德雷蒙德·格林当电视解说员这些事，更多精彩内容尽在《Real Ones After Dark》。
Then we talk about villains, which means Oklahoma City, and Draymond Green as a TV announcer, all that and more on Real Ones After Dark.
Cliff，Victoria，放比赛音乐。
Cliff, Victoria, play the game music.
《The Ringer NBA》节目由FanDuel赞助播出。
The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fan Duel.
季后赛一路跌宕起伏，但还没结束呢。
It's been a wild playoff run, but it's not over yet.
FanDuel想让你更贴近球场，不错过接下来的每一场精彩对决。
And Fan Duel wants to bring you closer to the court to make more of all the action to come.
在NBA季后赛期间，FanDuel是投注球队、球员和赛况的最佳平台。
Fan Duel is the best place to bet teams, players, and plays during the NBA postseason.
可以组同一场比赛的串关投注，赢取更高奖金，或者试试实时投注，在开球后立刻加入战局。
Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip-off.
现在就下载FanDuel体育博彩App，开始你的投注。
Download the Fan Duel Sports Book app now and play your game.
仅限21岁以上地区，华盛顿特区、肯塔基州和怀俄明州为18岁以上。
21 plus select states, 18 plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming.
有赌博问题吗？
Gambling problem?
请拨打1800。
Call 1800.
在康涅狄格州，请拨打1888789777或访问ccpg.org/chat。
Call 1888789777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut.
太火爆了。
It's popping.
深夜真汉子
Real Ones After Dark.
他们开玩笑说，这可能是拉贾最后一次来《深夜真汉子》了。
This is probably Raja's last time At Real Ones After Dark, they joke.
别提了，兄弟。
Don't even get me started, bro.
不过我们周六早上八点就有比赛了，老兄。
But we got game we got games starting at 8AM on Saturday, man.
现在是凌晨一点四十五。
It is 01:45.
现在是凌晨十二点四十五。
It's 12:45 in the morning.
是啊。
It is.
没错。
It is.
是啊。
It is.
因为圣安东尼奥马刺队赢了明尼苏达森林狼队。
Because, the San Antonio Spurs beat the Minnesota Timberwolves.
我得提一下，霍华德在播客群聊里说了句不祥的话，他说：‘兄弟们，上半场结束前咱们就能赢了，大家。’
Now I would like to note that Howard put a kiss of death into the podcast group chat when he told everyone, oh, man, we'll be potting by halftime, everybody.
对。
Yeah.
以马刺队现在的状态来看。
With the way that the the Spurs are going.
森林狼队
The Wolves
比赛前十分钟，一个球都没投进。
couldn't make a shot for the first ten minutes of the game.
对。
Yeah.
你刚才说那个
You you said that the
最有韧性的球队
most resilient team
在NBA季后赛里，不可能从落后15分的情况下翻盘。
in the in the in the NBA playoffs were not gonna come back from a 15 deficit.
你话里就是这个意思。
That's what you implied there.
我只是想，要是咱们能早点儿把比分追上，早点儿结束比赛，拉贾可能就没那么暴躁了。
I I I just thought maybe if we could pot early, we could get out early and Raja would be less cranky.
想得美啊，霍华德。
Wishful thinking, Howard.
谢谢你的好意。
Thanks for trying.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
发脾气的Raja可能是最厉害的两个Raja之一，除了那个，你知道的，哦，好吧。
Cranky Raja is probably like top two Raja though, other than, you know, oh, okay.
然后，你看，来了。
And then, you know, here we go.
我们已经深入三重防守了。
We're three deep in.
咱们开始吧。
Let's do this.
好了。
Alright.
今晚的重点是维克托·文班亚马，39分、15个篮板、5次盖帽。
So, story of the night, Victor Wembanyama, 39 points, 15 rebounds, five blocks.
我不确定这场比赛是不是刚结束，所以不太清楚他在第四节得了多少分。
And I'm not sure this this game just ended, so I'm not sure how many points he had in the in the fourth quarter.
但当时我最后一次查看时，他在第四节已经得了14分。
But at the time, when I last I checked, he had 14 in the fourth.
他身边还有鲁迪·戈贝尔和拉贾，不过情况有点微妙。
And he has Rudy Gobert, Raja, in a bit of a Yeah.
他就像个旋转门，能随时在后卫和内线之间切换。
In a turnstile because he can simultaneously go from, guard to, big man.
而且，对了，他身高七尺五寸。
And, oh, yeah, he's like seven five.
所以他真的把鲁迪·戈贝尔的打法给破解了。
So, like, it's really he's really got cracked the code on Rudy Gobert.
他在季后赛的表现非常出色。
He's having a great postseason.
你觉得维克托·文班亚马面对鲁迪·戈贝尔时，展现出的进攻决心怎么样？
What did you see from the assertiveness of Victor Wembanyama against Rudy Gobert?
这种表现对马刺队在系列赛后续阶段能带来什么突破？
And how can that really unlock the Spurs team for the rest of the series?
其实，我在第一场比赛的时候就说过。
Well, I mean, you know, I said it in game one.
我觉得他当时得到了不少好机会。
I thought he was getting good looks.
但第一场他有点犹豫不决。
I thought he was a little indecisive in in the first game.
我觉得只要他能下定决心，想怎么打就怎么打，而且坚决执行，局面很快就会不一样。
I thought there were some things that if he had just made his mind up that he was gonna do what he wanted to do and and do that with conviction that it could kinda change pretty quickly.
今晚你就看到效果了。
Tonight, you you saw it.
说真的，他就是这场比赛的关键人物。
Like, he he is a he's the difference in that game.
不管从哪个角度看，防守端 Minnesota 根本没法突破，平时在 NBA 常规赛里他们轻松就能上篮或抛投，可今天就是打不进，只能被迫往外传，找三分机会。
Like, any way you slice it, whether it's on the defensive end, Minnesota can't you know, the amount of times that Minnesota wants to go to the rim and thinks in any other game in an NBA season, they have a layup or a floater, and they can't execute that and have to, like, swing it out for a three or a swing swing three.
这说的不就是维克托·文班亚马吗？
I mean, that's that's Victor Wembanyama.
对吧？
Right?
那就是他的影子。
Like, that's the ghost of him.
他人去哪儿了？
Where is he?
他会盖掉这一球吗？
Is he gonna block this?
这就是他在场上的影响力。
That's his impact on that and the floor.
我还记得有个片段，应该是第四节，也可能是第三节，完全体现了防守维克托·温班亚马时的难题——那是个进攻篮板。
And then I thought there was a sequence, I think it was the fourth quarter, could've been the third, that I I think completely, you know, captures the essence of the problem that is Victor Wembanyama when you're trying to guard him, which was like, it was an offensive rebound.
那是德怀特·霍华德的犯规。
It was a d Wade on the call.
是德怀特·霍华德的犯规吗？
Was it d Wade on the call?
是的
Yeah.
他甚至像是轻轻一碰自己，然后在反弹的瞬间接住球，高高完成终结。
Will even reference like it was like a tap to himself, and then he caught it on the on the tap and then finished it really high.
对吧？
Right?
他根本没让球落地，也没给后卫或侧翼任何抢断的机会。
So it was like an he didn't bring it down, didn't let any guards get it or wings get involved.
他就靠着那差不多三米的超长臂展，轻轻一碰，自己接住，然后高高终结。
He kinda tapped it to himself with that, like, I don't know, 10 foot, like, reach he's got and then finishes it high.
接下来一次进攻，他站在罚球线顶部指挥，把球传到侧翼，还给自己拉出一个掩护空切的机会。
And then the next play down, he's kinda like directing traffic from the top of the key and he swings it to the wing and sets him his own self up for like a flare screen.
对吧？
Right?
就是那种掩护空切。
Like a flare.
还有鲁迪，那个七英尺高的内线球员，平时怎么习惯应对这种局面的？
And and Rudy, like, what fucking seven footer that guards the paint is used to navigate
这绝对不是在批评鲁迪·戈贝尔的防守。
This is not an indictment on Rudy Gobert's defense.
完全不是，一点都不是，毫无例外。
It's not at all at all in any way shape or form.
这只是他给你制造的难题。
This is just the conundrum that he puts you in.
所以他干脆自己处理了。
And so he like navigates it himself.
他先布置好位置。
He sets it up.
然后传出球。
He swings it.
再配合掩护跑位。
He brings the flare.
他先把防守人当成后卫来骗，然后突然跳投，直接命中三分。
He's he he sets his man up like a guard and he pops and he just cashes a three.
这会让任何顶尖的侧翼防守者都陷入极度被动。
And it it would put the best wing defenders in a really tough spot.
对于那些习惯守篮下、蹲坑、体型庞大的球员来说，当他从球场任何位置出手时，你根本防不住。
For guys that are used to guarding primarily the rim and then drop coverage and and being big, I mean, it puts you in a real impossible position when he's executing from all areas of the floor.
后撤步、转身、后仰投篮——说实话，他的进攻手段实在太丰富了。
The spin the spin fade step back like, you know, like, look, man, the repertoire is so deep.
当他的状态在线、信心十足，球队又不断给他创造不同位置的接球机会时，效果就更明显了。
And when it's working and he's confident and they're moving him around and getting him catches in different areas on the floor, which is important.
没错。
Yeah.
他在比赛中能直接改变胜负走向。
He becomes the difference in a game.
我真不知道还能怎么形容了。
I don't know how else I can put it.
他就像是决定比赛胜负的关键人物。
Like that he's the difference in the game.
那场面简直太疯狂了，我和霍华德聊过这事，记得是去年夏天，或者他刚被选中的那个夏天。
It was just it was wild because I mean, me and Howard talked about this, I think last summer or the summer that he got drafted.
他一个人身上集齐了七位传奇的特质。
He's, like, seven different legends in one.
当你看到基姆从掩护后摆脱防守出手，你总觉得他身上有斯蒂芬·库里影子。
So when you talk about, like, Kim just getting himself off a flare screen, you see Steph Curry some kind of way.
对吧？
Right?
接着你又能看到凯文·杜兰特，再看到卡里姆·阿卜杜勒-贾巴尔，甚至还能看到比尔·拉塞尔或者威尔特·张伯伦——记得那场我们以为他表现低迷的比赛吗？其实那场他根本没怎么主动进攻，却打出了NBA历史上最伟大的季后赛防守表现之一。
Then you see Kevin Durant, then you see Kareem Abdul Jabbar, then you see, like, you know, Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain the last game when we thought that was kind of a bad game for him, right, where he just wasn't assertive, but he had one of the greatest playoff defensive performances in NBA history while doing that.
我们以前真没见过这样的球员。
I I we've never seen anything like this before.
那场比赛，马刺队特别需要他扛起来，因为队友们根本靠不住。
And this was a game when the Spurs really needed him to carry because the supporting cast just wasn't there.
你知道吗，亚伦·福克斯19投7中，但你一看温班亚马下场，明尼苏达就慢慢追上来了。
You know, the Aaron Fox one seven of 19, you know, and you could see it when Wembany was off the floor, that's whenever Minnesota got back into the game.
他们还得靠他扛着，不过你觉得他这次的进攻主动性怎么样，拉贾？
And they're gonna need him to carry, but what did you think about just his assertiveness, Raja?
对吧？
Right?
我觉得这正是过去两场比赛里最明显的变化。
Like and I think that was the biggest difference that we've seen over the last two games.
是的。
Yeah.
这本来就是一个逐步成长的过程。
Well, you know, it's a process.
从第一场比赛开始我们就一直在讨论他，每个人都在担心他能不能顶住。
You know, we we we talked about him from game one and, you know, every everyone kinda weighed in on whether or not they were worried about him.
归根结底，没亲身经历过，你根本没法真正理解。
And and and, you know, the bottom line is you've never you haven't been there until you've been there.
没亲身经历过，你就不会真正懂。
You haven't gone through it until you've gone through it.
每个人适应的速度都不一样。
And everyone acclimates at their own pace.
你根本没法预测，洛根或者霍华德要多久才能真正适应季后赛的氛围。
Like you can never predict how long it's gonna take for Logan or Howard to really acclimate to like what a playoff environment's like.
从第一轮到第二轮，再到西部或东部的季后赛，直到总决赛，每一轮都不一样。
You know, and it's different from round one to round two to Western or E for turn conference playoffs to the finals.
每一轮都有它自己的节奏和特点。
Like every round becomes its own animal.
所以，看着他实时地调整、慢慢适应，其实挺有意思的，比如他说：‘我懂了，我现在慢慢上道了。’
And so like, you know, it's been it's been fun to watch him kinda in real time say, okay, like I'm acclimating.
我明白第一场发生了什么。
I understand what happened in game one.
我也清楚第二场是怎么回事。
I understand what happened in game two.
而我现在，之前在防守端已经适应了这个系列赛，现在轮到我在进攻端发力了。
And then now, you know, while I imprinted this series before this on the defensive end, here I go offensively.
今晚他在攻防两端都上演了一堂大师课。
And tonight was a master class on both ends of the floor.
这正是我们期待一位如此出色的球员该展现的样子。
And that's just that's just what you wanna see out of a player of that ill.
我们一直认为，他将是未来联盟的门面人物。
You know, a player that we expect to be the face of the the league moving forward.
亲眼看着这一切发生，真的特别棒。
Like and it's and it's cool to watch it happen in real time.
大家真该好好欣赏今晚看到的一切，不只是他的进攻表现。
People should really appreciate what they saw tonight and not just the offense.
他的进攻简直太疯狂了。
The offense was crazy.
我知道他今晚的盖帽不像第一场那样多，霍华德。
And I know he didn't have the blocks like he had in game one, Howard.
好吧，我不多说了。
Like, I'll let you go.
我知道他这场的盖帽没像第一场那么多，霍华德，但如果你回看录像，仔细观察那些明尼苏达队本该在绝大多数NBA比赛中轻松完成的篮下终结——他们明明有机会上篮，却因为感觉会有盖帽，直接把球仓促传了出去。
Like, I know he didn't have the blocks that he had in game one, but if you go back and rewind that tape and just look at how many opportunities that that Minnesota would have normally ordinarily in 99% of NBA games had finishes around the paint where they just decided there could be a block coming and they just rifled it out.
这种防守威慑力到底有多大的价值，根本没法用数据衡量，它直接让对手不敢轻易冲击篮筐，减少了大量空位出手的机会。
I mean, you can't quantify what that does in terms of defensive efficiency and limiting people getting those wide open looks around the rim.
对。
Yeah.
每场比赛都值得专门看看这一部分，拉贾。
It's every game, it's worth watching just that part of it, Raja.
像这种比赛里最亮眼的，当然是他绕过鲁迪的后仰跳投，紧接着下一回合又投进那个更远的三分球。
Like, we are going like, the the stuff that really pops in a game like this, of course, is like, you know, the turnaround jumper over Rudy and then, like, you know, next possession down the the deeper three.
当他决定开启模式，成为球队核心、扛起得分重任的时候，真的特别过瘾，因为他有太多方式可以做到这一点了。
And, you know, like, he could he he just when he wants to turn it on and be the guy that you play through and be the score, it's really fun because the way all the different ways he can do that.
还有盖帽，毕竟盖帽本身就有种天然的观赏性。
And then the blocks because blocks can be spectacular just by nature of of blocks.
对吧？
Right?
但如果你只想看对手持球时，文班亚马在禁区内的表现，看他如何改变比赛，再对比科内特上场后的变化，这绝对值得一看——当然，这绝不是在贬低科内特。
But if you if you wanted to watch a game of just every time the opponent has the ball, Wembany's in the paint, Wembany's the game and in the paint, and just watch what they do and what they don't do, and then look at the difference every time Cornett came in, and it's not a knock on Cornett, of course.
我刚才正好在看你说话的时候查了正负值，文班亚马是+16，科内特是-9。
I was just looking up the the plus minus actually as you were wrapping up because I wanted to see, like so Wembany was a plus 16 and Cornett was a minus nine.
所以，这真不是在说科内特不好。
So, like, again, that's not a knock on Cornett.
这只是说明了在这场比赛里，文班亚马在场和不在场的差别有多大。
That is that is illustrating in this particular game the difference in having Wembany out there.
那些没投进的球，那些根本不敢出手的球。
The shots that are not made, the shots that are not taken.
是的。
Yeah.
这简直是个巨大的平衡器，拉贾，我们常常忘了，第四节亚马逊那边有个数据，讲的是这两支球队在季后赛经验上的差距。
I mean, it's a great equalizer, Raja, right, to just because we forget, right, where and there was a stat in the fourth quarter that they that they that Amazon put up where it was talking about just the difference in experience between these two teams, playoff experience.
我记得森林狼队加起来有三百多场季后赛经验。
I believe the Timberwolves had something like 340 something more than 340 games combined of playoff experience.
而圣安东尼奥马刺队大概只有四十四场左右。
And I think the San Antonio Spurs had 44 or something along those lines.
而且他们那些经验大概都集中在哈里森·巴恩斯、迪尔和福克斯身上。
And they're probably all Harrison Barnes and Deere and Fox.
没错。
Exactly.
对吧？
Right?
你看，这就是替补阵容的差距。
And so you see that with the supporting cast.
对吧？
Right?
这还是他们球队本赛季季后赛第一次打客场的第三场比赛。
This is only their third game on the road as a team in the postseason.
对吧？
Right?
你看到的，还有耶。
And you saw that with Yeah.
你知道的，戴伦·哈珀的表现。
You know, Dylan Harper's performances.
对吧？
Right?
你看到斯蒂芬·卡斯特的表现了。
You saw that with Stephon Castle.
对吧？
Right?
但他们需要一个很好的平衡点，来抵消这种差距。
But they need the the Spurs needed a great equalizer to kinda offset that.
有点奇怪的是，这个平衡点居然也是那个明星球员，但他正处在一种全新的环境里。
It's weird that the the the great equalizer is also the guy that is also the star, but it's he's kinda going through this kinda new environment, if you will.
这让我想起2006年的勒布朗，他那时候直接带着球队横扫全场，拼尽全力打球。
And it reminds me honestly a lot of LeBron in o six where he was just kinda, you know, took the team by storm and played.
但你能想象吗，作为一个年轻球员，站在那样的舞台上，压力得多大？你的新星要扛起这一切，还得把整个队伍撑住，这得多难？
But, like, can you just kinda contextualize how hard that is and that adjustment when you are a young player on that type of stage and what that means for your your young star to do something like this and keep you afloat?
我真没法体会，因为我从来没经历过那种感觉。
I actually can't contextualize it because I have no idea what that is like to do.
我2006年也在打球，但说实话，我对勒布朗那时候的事儿没什么印象了。
I think and and I was playing in o six, so don't really remember LeBron doing it.
那我就从角色球员的角度说说我的感受吧。
So let me just speak to what a role player might feel.
我刚才给你设了个前提，但我错了。
I set you up, but I was wrong.
我给了你一个
I gave you the
东西。
thing.
好的。
Okay.
行吧。
Alright.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
没事的，兄弟。
It's all good, man.
没事的。
It's all good.
我明白你的意思。
I understand what you're saying.
说正经的。
I all jokes aside.
听好了，如果可以的话。
Look, if if okay.
咱们得客观看待这一系列比赛。
Let's just put this series in perspective.
对吧？
Right?
要是我们是明尼苏达队，我们其实赢下了第一场。
Like, we stole a game one if we're Minnesota.
没错。
Right.
我们回家打第二场时丢了局，但那根本无所谓。
And we're coming home, know, game two got away from us, but we don't really give a fuck about that.
我们现在是拿着赢来的钱在打。
We're playing with house money.
我们回家后，要是能在第一场就迅速打开局面，对面是支年轻球队，谁知道他们会怎么反应？会不会出现心理波动，谁会因此发挥失常。
We're coming home, we figure if we can hop out and get some traction in game one, young team, who knows what might happen to them, what what what type of like, you know, insecurities might creep in and who we can get to not play well.
所以我们的策略就是趁早发力，拿下第一场，等回到主场打第三场时，争取再锁定一场胜利。
And so, you know, the game plan is to jump on them quick and get game one, you know, game three as we get back home, see if we can secure that.
最糟糕的情况，就是我们的核心球员上场后畏手畏脚。
The the worst thing that could happen would be your star to come out and be timid.
我不是说他表现差，而是面对必须赢下第三场、夺回主场优势的巨大压力，他显得犹豫不决。
Like, not mind you, not bad, like, but timid in the face of the daunting task, which is winning game three and trying to get the home court back.
如果我们环顾四周，看到其他队员都在想：天啊，洛根今晚根本没打算为我们拼这场。
If we looked around his role guys and said, oh, shit, Logan really is not here to play.
别管他今晚能不能打好了，关键是——
Like, never mind whether he's gonna be good or not tonight.
他根本不想站出来，为今晚赢下第三场去扛起这面旗。
He just doesn't wanna, like, champion the cause for us winning game three tonight.
光是这一点，就已经是很难翻越的高山了。
Just that in and of itself is a really, really tough hill to climb.
对吧？
Right?
因为这迫使我们每个人都去承担平时在球队里不会扮演的角色，尤其是在这种高压环境下。
Because it just throws all of us into roles that we ordinarily don't play on, like, this team, especially in these, like, high pressure situations.
所以，哪怕只是为了撑场面，有他在也非常重要。
And so just having him there for the shits, if you will, is important.
但光是撑场面还不够，他还得高效执行，大部分时候稳住自己，不乱来。
But having him there for the shits and then being very, very efficient and executing and, you know, for the most part playing within himself.
说起来，如果你还记得第一场比赛，我提到过他几次跳起来出手的回合。
I mean, were very few if you remember game one, I talked about the possessions that he had where he was leaving his feet.
那时候他根本没计划。
There was no plan.
看起来特别仓促。
He looked like he was kind of like hurried.
但今晚这种情形少多了。
Like, there were few and far between tonight.
我只看到一两次，但总的来说他控制得很好。
Like, I I saw one or two, but for the most part he was under control.
他打得非常高效。
He was efficient.
这让我们整个团队都特别安心。
I mean, that just puts us in a really, really safe space.
那么，这些球员在这么安心的环境下，都按你期待的方式发挥了作用吗？
Now, did all of those guys chime in the way you would have wanted them to because they were in a safe space?
没有。
No.
但你的核心球员确实发挥了巨星的作用。
But your star was a star.
他在攻防两端都表现得极其出色。
Like, he was incredible on both ends of the floor.
正因如此，你才能拿下这场胜利。
And because of that, you know, you can get that dub.
所以，说实话，对于一支年轻球队来说，让核心球员一上来就用行动表明他认真要打，这有多重要，真的很难衡量，因为这能带来安全感。
So, like, I can't quantify how important it is to a team, especially a young team, to have your star come out and just stamp it early that he's here to play, because that's safety.
而当他真的投入比赛并且表现出色时，你就有了赢球的机会，队友们也更想赢。
But then he's here to play and he's good, that now gives you the chance to win the game and they want it.
在听霍华德的看法之前，我想补充一点。
One point on that before we get to Howard's perspective on this.
你又做了你一贯的事，拉贾——明明说不知道该怎么回答，结果却给出了一个超过满分的回应。
You did the thing that you always do, Raja, where you say, I don't know how I'm gonna answer the question, and then you give an 11 out of 10 answer.
我只是想把你刚才的表现放进来强调一下。
So I'm just wanna, like, put you in there.
你经常这样。
Like you tend to do this a lot.
听好了。
Listen.
你老是这样
You do this a
角色球员往往有独特的视角。
Role guys have a real unique perspective.
我知道你为什么问这个问题。
I know this is why I asked the question.
我可能本该说得更清楚点，但正因如此我才问你啊。
I probably could have worded it better bro, but like that's why I asked the question to you.
你懂的篮球比耶稣基督还多，老兄。
You know more basketball than all of Jesus Christ, man.
就像我们之前说的，抱歉。
It's like when we were My bad.
当苏·伯德上节目时，你还说不知道该聊什么。
When Sue Bird was on the pod and you were like, I don't know what to talk about.
结果你一下子就把全场带起来了。
And then like you took over the pod.
是的。
Yeah.
给苏打个招呼。
Shout out Sue.
给苏打个招呼。
Shout out Sue.
霍华德，
Howard,
你对维克托·文班亚马和马刺队有什么看法吗？最后的想法。
any thoughts, final thoughts on Victor Wembanyama and the Spurs?
我想接着聊森林狼那边的事，但在那之前，你还有什么想说的吗？
Because I do wanna get to the Timberwolves side of this, but any final thoughts that you would have before we get to the Timberwolves side?
没有。
No.
亚马逊刚才闪出一个数据，快得我可能没听清上下文，但他们说历史上只有另外三个人拿过35分、15个篮板和5次盖帽。
So one of the other stats that Amazon flashed, and it was so fast that I maybe missed some context, but they were saying that there were only three other guys who had ever gone 35, fifteen, and five.
不过可能是因为年龄限制，他们列了沙克、贾巴尔和文班亚马，说是唯一做到35分、15篮板、5盖帽的球员。
But maybe it was at a certain age because they listed a team, Shaq, and Kareem and Wembany as the only guys to go 35, 15 rebounds, five blocks.
我觉得文班亚马最后拿了39分。
And I think Wembany finished with, like, 39.
我用StatHead查了一下，发现季后赛历史上能单场拿到35分、15个篮板和5次盖帽的人，名单简直离谱。
But I ran it on stat head, and it's just like, this is just a ridiculous list of guys in the postseason who have ever had 35, fifteen, and and five in a game.
只有威尔特·张伯伦、内克姆、沙克和卡里姆，还有威利斯·里德也在列。
It's Wilt Chamberlain and Nakim and Shaq and Kareem, and there's a Willis Reed on there.
这真的太疯狂了。
Like, it's just it's insane.
而这还是他第一次打季后赛。
And this is his first playoff run.
这让我想起一条特别棒的推文，来自名人堂球员J.J.阿隆多，他在Blue Sky上发过一段话，点出了关键：我们今天看到的，其实是文班亚马最不成熟的版本。
So that takes me to a great tweet, the perspective all the perspective we need on this from the Hall of Famer, JJ Adonde, who put this up on Blue Sky a little bit ago, which was a reminder, this is the least experienced version of Victor Wembanyama that we're going to see.
这家伙面对经验丰富的森林狼队，简直是在统治比赛。
Like, the guy is just fucking dominating the game against an experienced Timberwolves team.
当然，森林狼这边也有一些情况，比如爱德华兹刚伤愈复出。
And and granted, the wolves, like, there's some caveats here, and Edwards just got back.
这是他经历膝盖问题后，首次重新首发比赛。
This was his first game starting again after going through all this stuff with his knee.
他们缺少了但丁·迪文琴佐。
They're missing Dante DiVincenzo.
我猜我们刚回来不久。
I would assume we just got back.
这支球队刚连续两年打进西部决赛，核心是鲁迪·戈贝尔——这个时代最出色的内线防守者之一。
But this is a team that's been to back to back Western Conference finals that has anchored by Rudy Gobert, one of the greatest big man defenders of his era.
还有爱德华兹，这个时代最顶尖的得分手之一。
And and Edwards, one of the great scores of this era.
再加上文班亚马和一群年轻球员。
And Wembany and a bunch of other young guys.
多恩的那条推文说得对，这确实是文班亚马迄今为止经验最少的版本。
It's not just like, it's you know, a Donde's tweet was this is the least ex experienced version of Wembanyama.
我们完全可以把斯蒂芬·卡斯尔、迪伦·哈珀，还有整个马刺队都算进去。
We could just sub in Stephan Castle, Dylan Harper, the Spurs at large.
他们本不该走到这一步。
They weren't supposed to be here.
现在他们只差几场胜利就能打进西部决赛了，而原本大家觉得他们最多就是个六号种子而已。
And they're now a couple wins away from being in the in the Western Conference finals when they were supposed to be like a playing team or like a six seed this year.
他们现在的表现实在太惊人了，打法如此成熟，临场状态也完全准备好了。
It's it's absolutely remarkable what they're doing, how polished they look, how ready for the moment they look.
这轮系列赛还远没结束，但他们的表现确实令人印象深刻。
There's a ways to go in this series yet, but it it's just super impressive.
拉贾，森林狼要想赢下第四场比赛，得做些什么？
Raja, what do the Timberwolves had to do to win game four?
他们得把球投进。
They gotta shoot the ball.
你看。
Look.
他们现在处境很艰难。
They're in a they're in a tough spot.
我的意思是，他们在联盟里三分球命中数排在中游，大概第十六名，场均三分命中数。
I mean, they're middle they're middle of the pack in the league, I think sixteenth in the league in terms of threes made per game.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得整个系列赛下来，第一场进了10个，第二场9个，今晚是不是进了14个左右？
And I think through the series, they made, like, 10 in the first game, nine in the second game, and was it, like, 14 tonight?
差不多就是这个数。
Like, something like that.
他们平时场均大概能进13个左右。
I think they typically average about 13 a game.
但今晚你看到圣安东尼奥的做法是，他们一拿到球就赶紧从安东尼手里传出去。
But what you saw San Antonio do tonight was they were getting the ball out of Ant's hands early.
迅速转移球。
Getting it out.
对吧？
Right?
所以你们是抢在他拿球之前就把球断了。
So you're getting it out of his hands.
通常来说，你会想，好吧，咱们现在是四打三。
And typically, you'd say, okay, well, we're gonna play four on three.
我小时候学打球的时候，教练就说，四打三的话，一定要想办法上篮得分。
And, you know, the way I was taught when we were a young'un was like, you got a four on three, we're gonna lay up out of that somehow.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
我们要调动对方防守，创造一个高质量的上篮机会。
Like, we're gonna manipulate this defense and get a high quality lay up.
但他们有维克托·文班亚马。
Except they got Victor Wembanyama.
没错。
Yeah.
就是我们刚才聊的那个人。
Who we just talked about.
尼克斯队说：不行。
Knicks like, no.
他说：不行，这样不行。如果真要这么做，就得从顶部把球传出去。
He's like, no, that's not gonna So if that's gonna happen, you're spraying the ball out from the top.
明白了。
Alright.
我们得进攻，毕竟现在是四打三。
We're gonna attack because we're four on three.
当米奥娜会封盖上篮时，你就得更多地选择跳投。
When Myonna is gonna deter the the the layup, you've gotta make up you've gotta make more jump shot.
你得更多地投三分球。
You've gotta make more threes.
对吧？
Right?
我不是想简单化，但既然这是他们的策略，而且我猜圣安东尼奥在成功提前把球从他手里夺走后，也不会轻易放弃这招，那你就得让他们付出代价。
And, you know, I don't mean to boil it down to that, but if that's gonna be the strategy and I wouldn't imagine that that San Antonio goes away from it after having just been successful with getting it out of his hands early, you're gonna have to make them pay.
如果篮下打不进，就得在罚球线上拿分，他们得想办法做到这一点。
If you can't convert at the rim, you've gotta make them pay at the line, and they've gotta figure out a way to do that.
防守端，你们得想出办法来应对文班亚马这个难题。
On the defensive end, you're gonna have to come up with some answers for for, you know, the Wembanyama riddle.
我可不敢说我对这事儿有全部的答案。
I'm not gonna sit here and act like I have all the answers for that.
我只是看了这场比赛。
I just watched the game.
我可能得再看一遍，才能给你一个公正的分析，说我会怎么去解决这个问题。
I need to probably watch it again to be able to give you a real fair idea of what I might do to try to solve that.
但无论如何，他们必须得做到这一点。
But, like, they're gonna have to do that.
不过进攻端呢，这场比赛可没一边倒。
But on the offensive end, like, again, this wasn't a blowout.
比赛的胜负就在毫厘之间。
Like, game was here in the margins.
当时机会就在眼前，你得想办法杀到罚球线去。
Like, it was it was right there, you know, and and figure out a way to get to that free throw line.
但如果有一半甚至三分之一的篮下出手机会，还没出手就被封堵了，
But, again, if if half of half to a third of your potential attempts at the rim were deterred before you even tried to make the attempt.
那你们自然能获得的罚球机会就会大幅减少，因为你根本进不去内线制造犯规。
That is going to subtract a significant amount off of the attempts that you get at the free throw line organically because you're you're not going in there getting beat.
结果只能往外传，球员们在外线投三分。
You're spraying it out and guys are shooting deep three.
如果你既投不进篮下，又因为不敢冲击篮筐而得不到罚球，而且你最好的球员还被逼着把球传出去，那问题就大了。
So if you're not gonna make those and you're not gonna get to the free throw line because you're not attempting around the rim, and your best player doesn't have the ball in his hands because they're making him get off of it, you got a problem.
所以他们要么得在篮下提高效率，多造罚球，要么就得在进攻端多投进三分，然后再想想怎么应对缅甸的情况。
So they've either gotta convert better around the rim and get to that free throw line or they gotta make more threes on the offensive end, and then figure out what Myanmar.
还有他们的核心球员拉贾，目前有上场时间限制，却在疑似跑步膝的情况下打了整整四十分钟。
And Raja, their best player, is on a minutes restriction, just played forty minutes on what we think is a runner's knee.
所以现在确实挺难的。
So it's, it's tough right now.
就是，真的挺难的。
Like, it's just it it's tough.
而且说到你的第二点，我们一直琢磨这个缅甸难题，估计接下来十二年还得继续解这个谜。
And also to your second point, we've been trying to figure out the, the Myanmar riddle for a long time now, and I think that we're gonna be spending the next twelve years to try to figure out that riddle.
我
I
我知道你想盯住霍华德，但这个真的很重要。
I know you wanna get to Howard, but like this is this is important.
你记得第一场结束后我说过吧，得想办法动他。
Like like, you remember after game one when I said, hey, you gotta move him.
你不能让他就这么轻松地待着。
Like, you can't have him just like went
他们现在对戈贝尔用的那套打法，是不是也得用在文班亚马身上？
Like what they're doing with like what they're doing to go bear right now, you gotta do that with Wembany?
没错，必须这么干。
You gotta yeah.
不行。
No.
对恩博尼，你得动起来防他。
With Wembany, you move him.
所以，作为防守方，我得破解恩博尼这个难题。
So like, when I'm saying to you as a defensive, like, team, I need to answer to the riddle that is that is Wembany.
对吧？
Right?
如果你老是把他放在同样的位置接球，我还能想出应对办法。
Well, you keep giving him the ball relatively in the same spaces, I can devise a plan for that.
对吧？
Right?
但如果你老是让他满场跑位，各种位置、各种接球方式，那我的防守就得不断换人、包夹，难度直接翻好几倍。
Like but if you're gonna move him around the chessboard and you're gonna have him getting different type of catches in different scenarios that's putting like my defense in different kind of rotations to try to corral him and double him, It makes it exponentially harder for me.
所以他们要是这么打，事情就真的太难了。
So when they're doing that, like, it it it becomes a very, very daunting task.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
是的。
Yeah.
说真的，再过十二年，你可能还在琢磨怎么对付温班亚马。
To be clear, in twelve years, you may still be trying to figure out Wembany.
那时候我早就退了，退休了。
I'm gonna be long gone, but I'm retired by then.
所以十二年后这问题跟我没关系。
So that's not my problem in twelve years.
不，我会给你发消息，跟你说：嘿，最近咋样？
Well, no, I'm gonna be texting you and I'm gonna be like, yo, what's good?
不，我那时候在
No, I'm
我那时候在
gonna be, I'm be like, dude, I'm on a, I'm on
在海边晒太阳呢，老兄。
a fucking beach, man.
我现在可享受退休生活了。
I'm enjoying my retirement.
这事儿可就归你操心了，老兄。
Just that's your problem, man.
以后‘真家伙’聊天群就全是波本威士忌和海滩照片了，兄弟。
This is gonna be, it's gonna be, the Real Ones chat is just gonna be just shots of bourbon and shots of beaches, bro.
到时候就全是这些事儿了。
It's a lot all it's gonna be.
瞧，就在这儿了。
Here we go right there.
咱们赶紧聊聊尼克斯和76人的正经比赛吧。
Let's talk Knicks real Knicks-Sixers really quickly.
你是不是想炫耀一下，拉贾？
You wanna gloat, Raja?
你之前在群聊里可没少炫耀。
Because you were gloating in the group chats.
是啊，我们在暗自得意。
Were gloating.
我才不是那种爱炫耀的人。
Not a gloater.
我不是那种在公开场合炫耀的人。
I'm not a public gloater.
我只在私下里得意。
I'm a private gloater.
明白吗？
Okay?
你就是那种……我可是个私下得意的人。
You're a you're a goddamn I'm a private
你没必要让Cliff觉得更难受了。
You don't need to make Cliff feel worse than he is.
咱们得注意一下，现在频道里每个人的情绪。
You know, we we should we should we should be cognizant of the feelings of everybody on this channel right now.
克里夫。
Cliff.
是的。
Yeah.
抱歉啊，兄弟。
I'm sorry, buddy.
六人队不可能比六还多。
No more Sixers than Six.
这在数学上根本不可能。
It's mathematically impossible.
对。
Yeah.
你看，我刚收到一个盒子，是那次我没去的重聚活动寄来的。
Look, I just got my box for, like, that o one reunion that I didn't go to.
我人在凤凰城的时候，它突然到了。
It showed up, like, while I was out of town in Phoenix.
我今天打开了。
I opened it today.
谢谢你们，六人组，送了球衣和夹克，真不错。
Thank you, Sixers, like, jersey, jacket, like Nice.
特别棒。
Really cool.
说实话，我都不太好意思说，但就是觉得心里有点不舒服，我自己也说不清为什么。
So I feel I feel I mean, it it hurts me to to say that like, I just I don't know what it was.
我没法给出一个清晰的解释。
I don't have a great breakdown.
这根本不是什么理性分析，也不是在剖析我为什么会这么想。
This isn't analytically like like, this isn't a great analytic breakdown of why I felt like that or or or an analysis of it.
今晚你没和OG在一起。
Like, I just you're you're without OG tonight.
这本来是个机会。
It was it was an opportunity.
你知道对我而言，费城发生了什么吗？
You know what happens to Philly for me?
我有点跑题了。
Like, I'm rambling.
但你知道在球队里发生了什么吗？
But you know what happens in the fleet.
抱歉，各位。
Sorry, guys.
不是这样的。
No.
他们卡在了自己想做的事和实际能做的事之间。
They they're they they there's they're stuck between what they wanna do when when they're stuck between what they wanna do.
霍华德上一期节目其实隐约提到过。
Howard kind of alluded to it last pod.
他们就是不知道该怎么应对恩比德的情况。
They're just they don't you know, are you going through Embiid?
你们是在靠后卫打比赛吗？
Are you playing through the guards?
他们好像陷入了一种奇怪的两难，不知道该以什么样的团队面貌示人。
Are you like, they're just in a weird double dutch of who they're gonna be as a team.
有时候他们能抓住状态，发挥出最佳水平。
And they might capture it from night to night and get the most out of it.
但很多晚上，我觉得他们并没有发挥出真正的实力。
But but on a lot of nights, I think it leaves you being less than you could be.
你明白我的意思吗？
Does that make sense?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他们是被两种错误夹在中间了。
I mean, they're they're caught between two errors.
对吧？
Right?
而且这两者之间根本没有任何连贯性。
And they don't have any continuity between, you know, those two things.
你说是吧，霍华德？
Right Howard?
你就是
You just
非得这么做，是吧？
had to do that, didn't you?
Real就是不行。
Real was no.
真他妈的。
Goddamn it.
大清早一点钟还搞这一出。
Pulls that at one in the one in the fucking morning.
这到底搞什么鬼？
What was the fuck?
别闹了，洛根。
Don't don't fucking start, Logan.
真实之夜。
Real Ones After Dark.
听好了，如果76人队
Listen, if the Sixers We
我们还有更多节目，各位。
have more show, ladies and gentlemen.
我们还有更多节目。
We still have more show.
理论上是这样。
In theory.
如果76人队少了OG·阿努诺比在场上搅局，又带着恩比德回归——虽然恩比德回来到底是好是坏还能争论，但至少他们完整了，而尼克斯不完整，你们还是主场作战。
If the Sixers couldn't win this one with no OG Anunoby out there haunting their dreams and in their jerseys, and with Embiid back and we could debate whether that was a plus or a minus, but Embiid back so you're whole, the Knicks are not, you're at home.
别管了，这场馆里有将近四成都是尼克斯球迷，包括
Never mind that, like, 40% of the building is Knicks fans, including
所有的
all of the
名人，比如咱们节目的朋友本·斯蒂勒，还有特蕾西·摩根、斯派克·李、Fat Joe。
celebrities, including including friend of the pod, Ben Stiller, including Tracy Morgan, including Spike Lee, Fat Joe.
哎，哎，哎，哎。
Yo, yo, yo, yo.
特蕾西·摩根坐在替补席后面，那样子真像个地道的纽约人。
Tracy Morgan was behind the bench looking like a true New Yorker.
他根本没坐到前排。
Like he didn't get courtside.
他就那样坐在那儿，镜头还拍到了他。
Like he was like, yo, you know, it was there was a shot of him like this.
对。
Yep.
那根本就不太像费城的比赛。
It was it was barely Philadelphia.
他们，他们，他们……
They're they've They
全场都在嘘他。
were booing.
布鲁森罚球的时候，全场都在喊MVP，真的。
They're they're they're MVP chants for Brunson at the line, man.
太疯狂了。
It's crazy.
纽约人简直把费城球馆给占了。
New York is just fucking colonized Philadelphia Arena.
克里夫，嘿。
Cliff hey.
克里夫本来都不想来看比赛的。
Cliff didn't even wanna go to the game.
我让Cliff去跟Ben打个招呼，结果Cliff说：兄弟，我根本受不了这个。
I told Cliff to go and say hello to Ben, and Cliff was like, I can't even stomach it, bro.
我连去球馆都觉得恶心。
I can't even stomach going to the arena.
不好意思。
Sorry.
Cliff最近状态真不好。
Cliff's having a rough one.
Ben。
Ben.
Cliff已经发了条全大写的‘彻底清空’的消息。
Cliff Cliff's Cliff's already texted clean house in all caps in the,
在这儿谈正事。
commission here.
对。
Yeah.
还说，让我去拿那件76人队的夹克。
And also said, let me get that Sixers jacket.
老兄， beans 到底在哪儿啊？
Bro, where where like, dawg, where is beans?
Chris 和 Neath 在哪儿？
Where are Chris and Neath?
Eve 到底在哪儿啊？
Like, where are where is Eve, dawg?
我那些费城的名人呢？
Where are my Philly celebrities, dawg?
我能不能在 Lalo 那儿找到 Gilly？
Like, can I get gilly in fucking Lalo?
我们现在到底在哪儿？
Like, where are we?
地狱。
Hell.
他们不住在费城，兄弟。
They don't live in Philly, bro.
他们根本不会在那儿。
They don't be in yeah.
我正想说，他们都搬去伦敦的伊娃那儿了。
I'm about to say they all moved to Eva's in London.
天哪。
Like Jesus.
抱歉。
Sorry.
给她订张机票吧，兄弟。
Put her on a flight, bro.
给她订张机票吧，伙计。
Put her on a flight, dog.
好的。
Okay.
伊芙已经离开那儿了。
Eve is out of there.
不过，我确实去过那儿。
Hey, I was there though.
你懂的。
You know?
天哪，他是拉贾，怎么不去那儿？
Hell, he's Raja, why don't up there?
拉贾，你难道不去那儿吗？
Raja, don't you go up there?
拉贾，在你当年待在费城的时候，谁是最有名的名人？
Raja, who was the biggest celebrity during your era in in Philly?
不是。
No.
我们那时候，呃，那真是段好时光。
We used I mean, that was a good time.
那时候去比赛的，有威尔·史密斯，有伊芙，还有好多名人都会来观赛。
So you get like Will Smith, you get Eve at the games, you get like, you know, people people would show up to those games.
我不太记得了，我正在想。
I don't I don't I'm trying to think.
费城老鹰队、费城费城人队这些体育明星会来，再加上那些说唱歌手、演员和女演员。
Eagles, Phillies, like, you know, the who's who of, like, the sports would be there, and then you'd get your your rappers, act actors, actresses.
那简直就像命中注定一样。
That that was a destiny.
不是。
No.
那简直就是全明星赛。
That was an all star game.
对，全明星赛。
An all star game.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
当Destiny出现在现场时
Destiny's out here when
我就想说说这个。
I was Just speak on that.
是的。
Yeah.
总之。
Anyway.
对。
Yeah.
但我就是看看。
But I just look.
我当时想，你听我说。
I I thought, you know, listen.
我以为我以为。
I thought I thought
我觉得76人今晚会赢。
the Sixers would win this one tonight.
我当时觉得，好，这是他们的机会。
I thought like, okay, here's their opportunity.
但他们表现得实在太犹豫了。
And they they just they looked so tentative out there.
进攻端挺有意思的。
The offense it's funny.
这可不是说尼克斯的教练不好，他是个很棒的教练。
This is not a knock on Knicks nurse who's a great coach.
今晚我觉得他们的进攻完全没节奏，也没方向。
The offense didn't seem to have any sort of flow or or intent tonight to me.
马克斯没有获得一次罚球机会。
Maxey took no free throws.
他全场出手12次，其实应该有17次的——他现在可是球队头号球星。
He had 12 shots from the field, 17 like, he's your best player right now.
不管恩比德拿过多少荣誉，现在真正撑起球队的，是泰瑞斯·马克斯。
Like, for whatever Embiid has accomplished and whatever the trophies he's got, Tyrese Maxey is your best player.
但这场比赛，他表现得相当低调。
And he was pretty muted in this game.
埃奇康布那场球罕见地像新人一样，完全没存在感。
And Edgecombe had one of those rare games when, you know, he kinda looked like a rookie, was a little invisible.
恩比德一个人怎么都撑不起来。
Embiid couldn't do enough.
他们就是缺个能组织的控卫。
And they're, you know, they're just PG
只打了一节球。
played one quarter.
是的。
Yeah.
你说什么？
What's that?
我说PG只打了一节。
I said PG had a quarter.
他只打了一节？
He had a So a quarter?
霍华德·比克。
Howard Beck.
我之前说过一句不吉利的话，说我在那一节期间提到过克里夫，结果真就出了事，我当时就想，天哪。
I had my Howard Beck kiss of death where I said I I hit Cliff during during that quarter and I was like, yo, man.
PG在打球。
PG hooping.
我正准备发表我的观点呢。
I was getting my takes ready.
我当时就想，哎，哈登要是给骑士队打，就该是这个样子。
I was like, yo, this is what Harden should be for the Cavs.
结果我一抬头，发现他已经走了。
And then I look up and I'm like, oh, he's gone.
我那些点评都准备好了。
And I had all the takes.
我都已经万事俱备了。
I was ready to go.
是的。
Yeah.
这真不容易。
It's tough.
费城五名首发球员，博比·马克斯早些时候发过这条消息。
All five Philly starters, Bobby Marks tweeted this earlier.
费城五名首发球员每个人都打了35分钟。
All five Philly starters played 35.
而且周日这场球下午三点三十分才开打。
And it's a 03:30 afternoon tip on Sunday.
哎呀不好。
Uh-oh.
所以这场赛后恢复可不容易，尤其是对保罗·乔治和恩比德来说。
So good luck with that recovery, especially for Paul George, and especially for Embiid.
天哪。
Oh my god.
是啊，这确实够呛。
Like, yeah, that's tough, man.
替补得分简直离谱，替补那边到底得了多少分？
Bench points were like a stupid like, what was what was the bench?
替补根本没戏。
The bench was too Dude.
说白了，沙梅特表现不错，但费城这边替补完全没贡献。
Easy Like, Shamit was great, but like, Philly got nothing.
很长一段时间里，替补得分差距几乎是35比0。
It it was like it was like 35 to zero or something in bench points for the longest time.
我本人其实觉得，有时候太看重替补得分有点傻——如果首发打得很好，谁还在乎替补拿多少分呢？
And and I'm one who like, it's a little silly sometimes to cite bench points because if your if your starters are great, then who cares what your bench does?
重点是总得分高，而不是赢下替补之间的较量。
The point is to have the most points period not to win the bench battle.
尼克斯能轮换更深，因为他们阵容更厚，而76人根本没几个人可换。
But the Knicks were going way deeper into their bench because they had more options, and the Sixers just don't have that many.
所以这又是那种夜晚，76人球迷在社交媒体上全在说：这时候要是有杰里德·麦凯恩就好了。
And so this was another one of those nights where all of a sudden, like, Sixers Twitter and Sixers blue, you know, Blue Sky social media is all like, this is when we could've used Jared McCain.
对啊，唉。
Like and Oh.
说得有道理。
Fair enough.
可没人趁高出手啊。
Nobody sold high though.
但他们确实卖了个高价啊，霍华德。
But they sold high though, Howard.
但他们卖的是那些选秀签。
But they sold The
这些选秀权会非常有价值。
picks are gonna be awesome.
我不确定是不是这样。
I don't know that
贾里德·麦凯恩加上那些选秀签？
Jared McCain on alone the picks too?
我不觉得光靠贾里德·麦凯恩一个人就能改变这个系列赛的走势。
The next I don't know that Jared McCain alone is changing the the course of this series.
当你阵容深度连六个人都撑不起来的时候，基本上就是昆汀·格里姆斯之后，只能让博纳上场打五分钟，再让爱德华兹上去故意犯规，搞个砍鲨战术。
But when you can't go more than effectively six deep, when you're you're basically like you're Quentin Grimes, then after that, it's like, we'll put Bona out there for five minutes and we'll put Edwards out there to go foul a couple of times to go do Hackamitch.
就这么多了。
And that's it.
你根本不信任替补阵容。
You don't trust your bench.
所以，像今晚这样的情况，麦凯恩本来可能对他们有帮助。
So, yeah, a night like this, McCain would have possibly been useful for them.
表现一般。
Not great.
表现一般。
Not great.
是的。
Yeah.
抱歉，克里夫。
Sorry, Cliff.
不是。
No.
但霍华德和拉贾，在进入下一段之前，我觉得接下来肯定会很精彩。
But Howard and Raja, before we get to the next segment, because I feel like that's gonna bring fireworks.
现在东部剩下的球队里，尼克斯是最强的吗？
Are the Knicks the best team left in the East right now?
我觉得底特律队会对此有很大发言权。
I I think Detroit's gonna have a lot to say about that.
我觉得底特律队会……
I think Detroit's gonna have a
现在也是，不过你先说吧，霍华德。
to this right now too, but go ahead, Howard.
你先说吧，霍华德。
Go ahead, Howard.
听好了。
The the the listen.
去年季后赛时，活塞队还是新军，但跟他们打得很激烈。
The Pistons played them super tough a year ago when the Pistons were rookies in the playoffs.
这个赛季他们也把对方打得落花流水。
And they beat the brakes off of them this season too.
打得他们毫无招架之力。
Beat the absolute brakes off.
活塞队在常规赛里完爆了他们，不管常规赛有多重要。
The Pistons the Pistons kicked their butts in the regular season for whatever the regular season is worth.
季后赛是另一回事，但毕竟不是小事。
The playoffs are different, but still, it's not nothing.
去年那轮六场大战，他们打得特别硬。
They played them super tough in that six game series last year.
那轮系列赛有些值得注意的情况，比如有一场比赛最后判罚出了错，还有艾萨亚·斯图尔特缺席了整个系列赛，我记得他一场都没打。
There were some, you know, notable caveats in that series, including a blown call at the end of one of those games and lack of Isaiah Stewart, who I believe missed the entire series.
艾萨亚·斯图尔特和杰伦·杜林搭档，会让卡尔·安东尼·唐斯的日子难熬得多。
The combination of Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Durin are gonna make life a hell of a lot harder for Carl Anthony Townes.
萨尔·汤普森和霍兰德那些人，也会让杰伦·布伦森相当头疼。
And Sar Thompson and Holland, the rest of those guys are going to make life pretty tough, I think, on Jalen Brunson.
不过布伦森总能找到办法。
Now Brunson finds a way.
在这轮系列赛里我们已经看到了。
We've seen it in in this series.
我们一路都看在眼里。
We've seen it throughout.
杰伦·布伦森总能找到办法得分。
Like, Jalen Brunson just finds a way to score.
不对。
No.
你对他做什么都没用。
It doesn't matter what you do to him.
活塞队的防守特别硬，打法也与众不同，我觉得这会比老鹰队或76人队给尼克斯带来大得多的压力。
But the Pistons are uniquely tough and play a brand of basketball that I just think is going to put the Knicks they're it's gonna just gonna strain them much more so than the Hawks or Sixers were even remotely capable of.
尼克斯虽然是低顺位球队，但我认为他们仍是热门，不过活塞是高顺位，拥有主场优势。
The Knicks will be favored, I think, despite being the lower seed, but the Pistons are the higher seed, do have home court advantage.
凯特表现太出色了。
Kate is awesome.
托拜厄斯·哈里斯不知怎么的突然成了个特别靠谱的二号得分手，真是让人回想起过去那些年。
Tobias Harris is is is actually been a really nice second option somehow out of the blue, speaking of turning back the clock.
他们真的特别硬气。
And they're tough as hell.
所以啊，我可不这么看，我还不打算这么定论。
So yeah, I don't, I'm not, I'm not giving that.
我还不能把冠军头衔现在就给尼克斯。
I'm not giving that title to the Knicks just yet.
我会。
I will.
我觉得尼克斯现在是东部最强的球队。
I think the Knicks are the best team in the Eastern Conference right now.
我知道这么说肯定要挨骂，毕竟活塞是头号种子。
And I know I'm gonna catch some shit because Detroit is the number one seed.
不过，霍华德，我同意你的看法。
But I agree with you, Howard.
我的意思是，等真到了那场对决，肯定会特别精彩。
Like, I think that that when we get to that, matchup, oh, it's gonna be everything.
真的特别值得一看，简直太棒了。
Like, it's gonna be That's gonna be really, really cool to watch.
我没法预测谁会赢。
And I I don't have a prediction as to who's gonna win it.
我觉得纽约队的优势更多一些，他们赢球的方式比底特律多。
I think New York has more well, I I think they have more they have more ways that they can win games than Detroit does.
对吧？
Right?
但话说回来，光有战术也不一定管用，你没法指望底特律每场都按你的节奏打。
But like if, again, that doesn't mean that you're going to be able to execute that game plan and get get, you know, Detroit to play into that every night.
所以我特别期待看这场比赛。
So I'm gonna be fascinated to watch it.
我觉得纽约队稍微强一点，不过我也同意霍华德的看法。
I think New York's slightly better, but I I agree with Howard.
这场对决看起来一定会很精彩。
That's gonna be fun to watch.
冲撞身体，掌控节奏。
Hit the bodies, hit the flow.
盯住对手，掌控节奏。
Get the bodies, hit the flow.
盯住对手。
Get the bodies.
这会成为整个系列赛的主题曲。
That's gonna be the theme song of the series.
我喜欢我们就这样随口说：‘骑士队？算了吧，我们根本没把他们当回事。’
I love how we just just say, yeah, the Cavs ain't we we fuck the Cavs.
他们根本没资格参与这场较量。
They're not even in this.
没错。
Yeah.
我对谈论骑士队完全没兴趣。
I I have no interest in talking about the Cavaliers.
别谈了。
No, don't.
好的。
Okay.
行吧。
Alright.
我就说一句，我看到过一些关于骑士队的梗。
I will just say, the memes that I have seen about how Cavaliers?
我看到过一些关于詹姆斯·哈登在季后赛里的梗，有个图是里克·罗斯穿着哈登的球衣，配文说这是季后赛的哈登。
Memes that I have seen about James Harden in the playoffs have been There was a meme, I'm a text you guys, where it's Rick Ross in a James Harden uniform, and they say this is James Harden in the playoffs.
我说，拉贾，你为啥干这种事？
I'm like, Raja, why your burner do that?
你干嘛非得这么搞，拉贾？
Why you have to do that, Raja?
好的。
Alright.
咱们先休息一下。
Let's take a quick break.
接下来聊聊反派角色。
We're gonna talk about villains.
本期节目由亚马逊Prime赞助。
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.
有没有过这种时候：临时要给聚会、突发约会，或者家里突然来场游戏夜买东西，结果手忙脚乱？
Ever find yourself scrambling to grab that special something for a last minute party, a spontaneous date, or even an impromptu game night at home?
这时候，Prime的当日送达就派上用场了。
That's when Prime's same day delivery swoops in.
你本来以为错过的东西，转眼就送到了。
That essential item you thought you'd missed delivered.
计划一下就救回来了。
The plan saved.
胜利到手了。
The win secured.
因为有了Prime当日达，你能在时机溜走前迅速拿下所需物品。
Because with Prime's same day delivery, you can grab it and go before the moment passes you by.
当日送达。
Same day delivery.
就在Prime上。
It's on Prime.
前往 amazon.com/prime，查找数百万件快速送达的商品。
Visit amazon.com/prime to find millions of items delivered fast.
仅限部分区域提供。
Available in select areas.
条款适用。
Terms apply.
好的。
Okay.
我们回来了，今天聊聊反派角色。
We are back, and we are here to talk about villains.
NBA新晋反派无疑是俄克拉荷马城雷霆队，尤其是在西部半决赛对阵湖人队的第二场赛后，我头一回见到整支球队集体走到球场中央，集体向裁判抗议。
The new villain of the NBA is the Oklahoma City Thunder, especially after game two of the Western Conference semifinals against the Lakers where the first time I have ever seen a team in unison go to the middle of the court and confront the refs about their referee.
说到裁判判罚，我必须得跟拉贾聊聊，毕竟他对这些事儿太有经验了。
And, you know, whenever we talk about refereeing, I gotta talk about talk to Raja because, you know, he's has a lot of history with all of these.
当然。
Of course.
你觉得雷霆队这场系列赛的判罚怎么样？现在轮到他们当反派了吗？
So what have you thought about the calls in the Oklahoma City series and is it the Oklahoma City's turn to be the villain?
这怪他们吗？
Is it their fault?
那到底该怪谁？
Whose fault is it?
我们到底在走向哪里？
Where are we going?
谁啊？
Who's that?
你这话是什么意思？
Clarify your question.
你能不能说清楚一点？
Clarify your question for me.
你是说那系列赛里的裁判怎么了？
Like, you what do about the referee in that series?
为啥这么说？
Like, why?
是因为湖人球迷在抱怨吗？
Because, like, the Lakers fans are bitching about it?
还有NBA本身。
And the NBA.
不过没错，湖人球迷确实是嗓门最大的一群。
But, yeah, the Lakers fans are the loudest contingency of fans.
是的。
Yes.
湖人球迷才是问题所在，好吧。
Laker fans are the issue like Okay.
我们有湖人队。
We got Lakers
球迷们一直被提及。
fans are been seen
关于这件事。
about it.
谁是？
Who
最大的群体是哪个？
is the largest contendency?
我觉得，NBA媒体圈里很多人一直在抱怨裁判对俄克拉荷马城的判罚不公。
I I would say a lot of people in within the NBA media sphere have been, you know, talking shit about refereeing against Oklahoma City.
这事儿早就有了。
It's been a thing.
我觉得现在闹得这么厉害，是因为他们碰上了洛杉矶湖人队，那可是媒体热点加铁杆球迷众多的球队。
I think it's future fever pitch because they are playing against the Los Angeles Lakers, which is a big media market with a big fan base.
那你对这轮系列赛的判罚有什么看法？
So what have you thought about the officiating in the series?
我觉得吧。
I'm look.
我从来不是那种替裁判开脱的人。
I've never been a huge apologist for refs.
如果你听这个播客，你应该知道，我从来不打算站出来替裁判说好话。
If people listen to this pod, you know that, like, that's not that's not my lane to get on here and and, like, really take up for the refs.
话虽如此，
Having said
但说实话，这正是我的立场。
that That's that's my lane, actually.
那确实是你该说的。
So That is actually your lane.
你确实会站出来为他们说话。
You do take yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
他们说你总是替联盟和裁判辩护。
They they say you take up for the league and the the refs.
我们各有各的分工。
We have our roles.
每个人都有自己的角色。
We all have our roles.
大家都是这样。
People.
我挺喜欢他们的。
I love them.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
不，不是这样的。
Well No.
喂。
Hey.
听我说。
Listen.
公平地说，我认识的大多数裁判，作为普通人，而不是只在球员和裁判的关系里，其实都是挺好的人。
In fairness, most of the refs that I've got to know as, like, human beings outside of, like, the player ref dynamic have been really good people.
拉贾，你和好几个裁判是Facebook好友。
You're Facebook friends with a number of refs, Raja.
没错。
Got yeah.
我不是对裁判这个人有意见，而是对他们的角色有时候在比赛中带来的影响有看法。
Not no beef with human being the human beings themselves.
有时候我对他们在比赛里扮演的角色确实有点不满。
Like, did have some beefs with with the role that they played within games sometimes.
但我对这一系列比赛的判罚真的没什么意见。
But I don't I really don't have a problem with the way this series is being ref.
你知道，我明白沙伊那种故意引诱犯规的做法，这根本不是篮球。
Like, you know, I know that that, you know, Shay is and the and the foul baiting and this isn't basketball.
这种事我一整年都听够了。
Like, I've listened to that all year long.
我对这个当然有自己的看法。
Like, I have my thoughts on that.
我记得，如果不是记错的话，奥斯汀·里夫斯上一场不是刚和沙伊有过冲突吗？就是昨晚那场。
You know, if I'm not like like, Austin if I'm not mistaken, didn't Austin Reeves like Shay the last game I that was last night.
沙伊那场得了四次犯规，是在什么情况下？
Shay had like four fouls in what?
第三节还是第四节？
Third quarter, fourth quarter?
他当时有点犯规麻烦。
He was in a bit of foul trouble.
我觉得奥斯汀·里夫斯去罚球的次数比他多。
I thought Austin Reeves went to the free throw line more than he did.
如果比球星对球星，我觉得俄克拉荷马城的罚球次数确实比洛杉矶多一点，但我真不觉得这系列赛的判罚有问题。
If we're going star for star, I think that maybe Golden I mean, Oklahoma City shot a few more free throws than than LA, but like I'm not I'm not mad at the way they're reffing that series.
这系列赛本来就挺身体对抗的。
It's a it's a physical series.
你知道的，这事儿本来就很主观。
You know, it's all subjective.
我真的搞不懂他们为啥有意见。
Like, don't I don't I don't get the beef.
我觉得这不过是大家想找话题聊罢了。
Like, I think it's just something that people wanna talk about.
我觉得我们现在生活在一个这样的文化里
I think we live in a culture where
顺便说一下，昨晚奥斯汀·里丝获得了十次罚球机会，谢伊是九次。
Austin Rees by the way had 10 free throw attempts last night and Shay had nine.
没错。
Right.
我的意思是，
Like like
这根本算不上什么罚球大战。
And they it wasn't a free throw experience.
也不是。
Either.
总共是二十次。
It was 20.
雷霆队有二十六次罚球机会，湖人队是二十一次。
They had 26 attempts with Thunder did, and the Lakers had 21.
是的。
Yeah.
我是说，谢谢提供这些数据，但你知道，Shay可是两届MVP。
Like, I'm I mean, thank you for the stats, but, like, you know, Shay's a two time MVP.
我们马上也要成为两届MVP了。
Like, we're about to be a two time MVP.
如果你们队最好的球员罚球次数比他还多，那我们还抱怨啥呢。
Like, if your best player is shooting more free throws than him, I don't know what we're bitching about.
我的意思是，我们能不能挑一些镜头，说‘嘿，这应该是个犯规’？
I mean, could we cherry pick a bunch of plays and say, hey, that was that was probably a foul.
这根本不是犯规。
This wasn't a foul.
我看到有些人，但我真不想这么做。
Like, I saw some people I'm not I I don't wanna do this.
我不会去深究这个。
I'm not gonna get into this.
我对这场比赛的判罚没什么意见。
I don't have a problem with the way that that that is being officiated.
如果你是湖人球迷，而且球队落后两分，确实可能会觉得不满，这点我承认。
If you're a Laker fan and you're down o two, you you would probably have some grievances there, and I'll grant you that.
如果你有这种感觉，我完全理解。
Like, I I have no problem if you feel like that.
但总的来说，我觉得判罚并没有太过分。
But generally speaking, I don't think it's been egregious.
当然，如果你们有不同看法，我很乐意听听你们的理由，但我真不觉得有哪里判得太离谱。
I mean, if you guys disagree, I'd love to hear the argument, but I don't think it's been egregious.
不过从媒体的角度来看，霍华德，我倒是很想跟你聊聊这个话题。
I think from a media standpoint though, Howard, I think I would love to have this discussion with you.
我总觉得，而且我在The Ringer网站上写过这个观点。
It does feel like and I wrote about this on the ringer.com.
你可以去那里看看。
You can go check this out.
这篇文章叫《俄克拉荷马城雷霆队把批评当夸奖》。
It is the the piece is called the Oklahoma City Thunder will take the noise as a compliment.
但我们见过太多赢球的球队都经历过这个。
But we've seen this with teams that win.
这其实就是一种普遍的反弹。
And it's just like a general backlash.
对吧？
Right?
本来这种声音是冲着雷霆队去的，但现在简直到了顶点。
Like, and I think it was coming for Oklahoma City, but like, I think it's that fever pitch now.
你觉得为什么偏偏是现在，大家集体开始反对这支球队？
Why do you think that this is the time for the collective backlash against this team?
这其实早就积累很久了。
So, I mean, this has been building for a while.
对吧？
Right?
几乎每支首次夺冠的球队，尤其是年轻球队，一开始都是人心所向，但转眼就被人厌弃。
Almost every team that wins their first championship, especially a younger team, you're the darlings until you're not.
勇士队就是个例子。
We saw that with the Warriors.
他们的状况更糟，因为签下了凯文·杜兰特，财富过剩，还引发了一堆负面情绪——等等，海登是谁？
And in their case, it was, you know, exacerbated by adding Kevin Durant and just the embarrassment of riches and all the the feelings that went with Who was Hayden?
很多人都不高兴。
People people were not happy.
不过说真的，你们也知道，我当年报道过奥尼尔和科比的时代，他们俩在全美几乎人人喊打，除了湖人球迷。
But and, you know, look, I I you guys know I covered the Shaq and Kobe era, Shaq and Kobe were villains to just about the entire country other than Laker fans.
很多事都是这么发展的。
That's how a lot of these things go.
尤其是他们三连冠的时候，再看看当时的情况。
And especially when they won three in a row and especially because look.
那时候，他们也被人抱怨裁判偏袒。
In in their case, there was bitching about officiating there too.
你知道的。
You know?
2002年西部决赛第六场，有些人应该还记得。
Game six two thousand two Western Conference finals might ring a bell for some people.
当你表现强势时，总会有反弹，尤其是当人们觉得你得到了裁判的偏袒时。
And so there's always going to be a backlash when you're dominant and a and there's a perception that you're getting the benefit of the doubt or the benefit from officials.
昨晚湖人队那事儿真有点怪，因为就在前天晚上，严格来说。
The Lakers thing last night was weird just because two nights ago now, I guess, technically.
嗨。
Hi.
现在是周六凌晨一点二十，各位。
It's one twenty in the morning eastern time on Saturday morning, ladies and gentlemen.
很高兴能和你们在一起。
Nice to be
和你一起。
with you.
拉贾很高兴。
Raja's really happy.
但湖人队根本没资格把这事扯到裁判身上。
But the the the Lakers have no ground, no standing in this at all to make this about officiating.
抱歉，我刚想再提一下刚才那件事。
I I sorry to get back to to to that just that one moment.
雷霆队的实力明显更强，这场系列赛他们是靠真本事赢的。
But, like, the Thunder are are dramatically better team and and are winning this series on the merits.
裁判跟这事儿一点关系都没有。
Officiating has nothing to do with this.
裁判会影响人们对雷霆队的看法吗？
Does officiating have something to do with the way the Thunder are perceived?
会的。
Yes.
大家觉得他们因为打法特别强硬、手部动作多，所以总能占便宜，事实也确实如此。
It is perceived that they get away with a lot because they're super physical, handsy, defensive team, and they are.
你夜复一夜这么打，故意试探裁判、踩线挑衅，总能占点便宜，毕竟裁判不可能管得面面俱到。
And when you, play that way night in and night out and you test the refs and you push the envelope, you're gonna get away with some stuff because they can't call everything.
这背后是有讲究的。
There's a philosophy to that.
以前杰里·斯隆带的犹他爵士队，就是这么打的。
Jerry Sloan's Utah Jazz teams used to play this way back in the day.
对吧，拉贾？
Right, Raja?
没错。
Correct.
还有当年的坏孩子活塞队。
So Bad boy Pistons.
那可是有名的坏孩子活塞队。
Famous Bad boy Pistons.
我的意思是，确实如此。
I mean, yeah.
这种打法一直都有，说白了就是贴身紧逼，让对手每一步都特别难受。
Like, there's always versions of this where, you know, the the philosophy is just get into guys, make everything hard, and make them uncomfortable.
裁判根本不可能每回犯规都吹，他们也不会那么做。
The refs can't possibly call every single infraction, and they won't.
所以这里面确实有点这种意思。
So there's a little bit of that.
还有一点，就是像谢伊那种故意引诱犯规的做法，还有随之而来的那些争议。
There's a little bit of the Shay foul drawing and all the backlash that's gone with that.
现在雷霆队是反派了吗？
Are the Thunder villains now?
我不清楚。
I don't know.
这种事还是留给那些真在乎、想把他们塑造成反派的人去说吧。
I'll leave that to people who give a shit about such things and who actually want to paint them as villains.
我不清楚。
I don't know.
我不在乎。
I don't care.
我觉得根本没人会在意他们的打球风格，不管是谢伊的犯规，还是防守的强硬。
I do think that it's there's nobody would care about their style of play, whether it's Shay or whether it's the the defensive tenacity.
如果他们不是那么出色，不是冠军，不是有望冲击第二个冠军，甚至可能成为王朝球队，根本没人会在意这些。
No one would care about any of that if they weren't also awesome, if they weren't champions and heading toward potentially a second championship and potentially, while premature, a potential dynasty.
如果他们没有这些成就，根本没人会在意，更不会有人抱怨，他们也不可能被当成反派。
If none of that were possible, nobody would care, nobody would be complaining about it, and they couldn't be villains.
他们之所以被这样看待，只是因为他们真的很厉害。
It's only because they're also great.
这才是关键，也是最重要的部分。
And that's the first part, and that's the part that matters.
大多数冠军，尤其是多次夺冠的球队，迟早都会迎来这样的反弹。
And most champions, at some point, especially if you're a multiple time champion, there's eventually gonna be a backlash behind it.
我实在想不起来哪支队伍完全没经历过这种事。
The only one that I can't really think, or I I don't think had it.
我觉得公牛队没这问题，因为就算迈克尔把你的球队打得落花流水，大家还是喜欢他，最起码也对他佩服得五体投地。
I don't think the bulls had it because everybody even if Michael kicked your team's ass, everybody loved Michael or at minimum respected the hell out of Michael.
而且公牛队打的篮球特别赏心悦目。
And the bulls played this beautiful brand of of of basketball.
迈克尔和斯科蒂搭档起来，看他们打球真是一种享受。
Michael and Scottie together were really fun to watch.
说实话，我觉得九十年代根本找不到能跟他们比的替补球队。
Like, I don't feel like there was a backup in the nineties.
你觉得有吗？
Do you think there was?
不过，Showtime时期的湖人队应该算一个吧？
There probably was with the Showtime Lakers, though, right?
我的意思是，
I mean, I'm
确实有吧？
like, there was, right?
因为部分原因是他们是洛杉矶的球队。
Because partially because they're LA.
听我说，那时候湾区也还有一点影响力。
Listen, was still a little bit in the in the Bay Area then.
所以，当然了，我们住在湾区，自然就讨厌湖人队。
And so, yeah, like everybody, like, you know, of course we hated the Lakers because we lived in the Bay Area.
这很正常。
That's what you do.
就是说，你知道的……
It's just, you know
是的，霍华德。
Yeah, Howard.
但说真的，他们也没啥让人特别讨厌的地方。
But but there wasn't anything really hateable about them, I guess.
我的意思是，人们可能会说，但他们也……
I mean, I like, would people have but also they
因为我一直在想雷霆队的情况，对吧？
because I think about what I think about what the Thunder, right?
我跟他们打过不少交道。
And I've been around them.
他们本质上并不是那种让人讨厌的人，对吧？
They're not like annoying people by nature, right?
他们甚至都不
Like they don't even
如果非要说的话，他们反而挺有计划的。
they're kinda planned if anything.
老兄，我采访他的时候，还有采访查德的时候，故意想引他说点什么，问了他关于那些负面反应的事，对吧？
Bro, I I tried to like, you know, bait them when I interviewed him and I interviewed Chad and I asked him like about this backlash, right?
或者说是舆论反弹。
Or proceed backlash.
这句是拉贾肯定会喜欢的原话。
And this is a quote that Raja's gonna enjoy.
他说，当你没名气的时候，没人会在意你做什么，好坏都不重要。
He says, when you're ass, nobody cares about what you do, good or bad.
所以如果人人都盯着你的一举一动，那说明你干得不错，而且确实有影响力。
So people are trying to put everything you do under a microscope, that means you're doing something well and irrelevant.
我觉得这其实是一种夸奖。
I think it's a compliment.
对。
Yeah.
我说了，要不是他们赢球，要不是他们有希望连冠，根本没人会关注他们。
Like I say, if they weren't if they weren't winning, if they weren't a threat to to be back to back champions and everything else, nobody would care.
那你觉得呢？
So what do you
你先说。
go ahead?
嗯，
Well,
是的。
yeah.
我的意思是，这其实无关紧要，但我真的觉得，我以前说过，现在再说一遍。
I mean, this is neither here nor there, but, like, I do I do think, like, I've said this before, I'll say it again.
对我来说，更大的问题不是判罚偏向哪一方，而是我们难道不能达成共识：季后赛的吹罚和常规赛根本不一样吗？
I I I I would say that a bigger issue for me, not I don't think it's it's the call is slanted one way or the other, but can we not all agree that they don't ref the playoffs the same way they ref the regular season games?
这种事我们还在争论吗？
Is this still a thing that we're still debating?
这些比赛，当你这么做的时候，这只是我个人的看法，我有时候忍不住要吐槽裁判，但这也可能是整个联盟的问题。
Like, these games and and when you when you do that, this is just me, I guess I can't help but bash refs at times, but like this might be a league thing too.
我完全支持。
I'm here for it.
我喜欢这种风格。
I'm I'm here for the style.
你们今晚看到那个球了吗？
I'm here for like, did you guys see the play tonight?
文班亚马被缠住了，但史蒂芬·卡斯特尔在弧顶拿到了球。
Wembany got tangled, but Stephan Castle had it out on the perimeter.
不好意思。
I'm sorry.
他正要突破，杰伦撞了他一下，然后换防了，朱利叶斯·兰德尔防他，结果还故意撞了他一下。
And he was trying to go and like Jalen, you know, bumped him and then he got a switch and and Julius Randle was on him and he fucking bumped him.
接着文班亚马上来掩护，兰德尔直接被撞倒在地。
And then Wembany came up and set the screen, and Julius Randle got, like, knocked to the ground.
然后球投出去了，文班亚马背后被人推了一把，最后裁判倒是吹了那个推人的犯规。
And then, you know, a shot went up, and Wembany got shoved in the back, and they ultimately got ant for, like, shoving Wembany in the back.
但那一回合里明明有四次普通犯规，一个都没吹。
But there were four regular season fouls in one possession, and they didn't call any of them.
对我来说，其实我无所谓哪边占便宜，但我觉得这事儿 bigger picture 上更值得说。
And for for me, like, you know, I don't care one way or the other, but that's bigger picture to me is like, look, man.
你们倒是管管啊。
Pick us up.
我能理解为啥得这么办。
Understand why we have to do that.
说实话，我真的不喜欢这样。
Like, I don't like, just, like, I I really don't.
可能跟比赛节奏，或者常规赛的观赏性有关吧。
Maybe it's got something to do with, like, pace of game or watchability during the regular season.
这事儿超出了我的权限范围。
That's above my pay grade.
但我觉得自己看过不少季后赛了，尤其是今年。
But I think I've watched enough playoffs now, like, especially this year.
他们季后赛根本不是这么吹罚的。
Like, they don't they're not refing that shit the same way.
斯坦·范甘迪在直播里说得明明白白。
Stan Van Gundy said it right on the broadcast.
他确实说了这话。
He he said it.
他？
He?
今晚？
Tonight?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
我没看那场，但他没说假话，那情况确实不一样。
I missed that, but, like, he he ain't lied because that shit's different.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。