Alex Cutler：现货交易所是加密货币领域最大的机遇（数万亿美元即将到来）

2025年，现货交易所的手续费收入大约是50亿美元。

2025, spot exchanges did about $5,000,000,000 in fees.

这几乎等于借贷、链以及衍生品手续费收入的总和。

And that's close to the amount of fees generated by lending, by the chains, by derivatives combined.

我是Robbie，你现在收看的是The Rollup。

My name is Robbie, and you're watching The Rollup.

今天，我想请大家订阅、评论、点赞，并支持我们的频道。

And today, I'm asking you to please subscribe, comment, like, and support our channel.

我们采访了数字资产、数字金融和代币化领域最优秀、最聪明的一些人。

We interview some of the best and brightest minds in digital assets, digital finance, and tokenization.

我们做这些是为了你们。

We are doing this for you.

所以，请放松坐好，享受节目，非常感谢大家的支持。

So please sit back, relax, enjoy the show, and thank you so much for all your support.

我们回来了，DAS亚洲2026，现在从Token2049现场直播。

And we're back, DAS Asia twenty twenty six, live from token twenty forty nine.

我的朋友，亚历山大·卡特勒，他是当下最耀眼的人物，把代币化股票带给大众的人，为每个人和每件事带来流动性的人。

My friend, Alexander Cutler, the man of the hour, the man bringing tokenized equities to the masses, the man that is bringing liquidity to everyone and everything.

亚历克斯，欢迎来到我们的节目。

Alex, welcome to the show.

很高兴见到你，我的朋友。

Good to see you, my friend.

给你做介绍太容易了，兄弟，因为你真的在干实事。

It's easy to do intros for you, man, because you're really doing it.

你真的在实实在在地干，而我……

You're really out here doing it, and I am...

我简直无法形容我有多兴奋，不仅要把Aero带到主网，还要把它带到各个地方。

I just can't tell you how excited I am to bring Aero not only to mainnet, but to bring it everywhere.

是的，兄弟。

Yeah, man.

给我们更新一下情况吧。

Give us an update.

这真是个疯狂的时刻。

I mean, it's a crazy moment.

到今天早上为止，我们距离上线只有两周了。

As of this morning, we are two weeks away from launch.

走起！

Let's go.

这是我们一年多来一直在努力筹备的上线。

And this is a launch we've been building towards for over a year now.

我们超级兴奋。

And we are super excited.

全新的Aero大概两周后就会上线。

So the all new Aero will go live in about two weeks.

好的。

Okay.

它会在Base、Optimism、Arbitrum上线，当然还有Robinhood。

It'll go live live on Base, on Optimism, on Arbitrum, and Robinhood, of course

哦，真不错。

Oh, very cool.

以太坊主网。

Mainnet Ethereum.

好的。

Okay.

而且它的定位非常明确，就是要成为唯一的、权威的现货交易所。

And it's very much designed to be, right, the single definitive definitive spot exchange

不仅仅是针对以太坊，而是整个链上经济。

Of not just Ethereum, but the onchain economy.

这是因为我们认为现货交易所是链上最大的机会。

And this is because we see spot exchange as the single biggest opportunity onchain.

去年，也就是2025年，现货交易所产生了大约50亿美元的手续费。

Last year in 2025, spot exchanges did about $5,000,000,000 in fees.

这几乎和借贷产生的手续费差不多。

And that's close to the amount of fees generated by lending,

对，

by

加上链上和衍生品加起来的总和。

the chains, by derivatives combined.

所以我们想推出大型的v3版本，把各网络的流动性连接起来，抓住这个现货交易的黄金时刻。是的。

So, you know, we want to go, launch the big v three, connect liquidity together across networks, and dominate this moment in spot exchange Yeah.

当万亿美元级别的市场开始上链的时候。

When trillion dollar markets are beginning to come on chain.

我……

I...

我真的很兴奋，因为我忍不住……

I'm really excited for this because I I can't help...

你看，我们的永续合约平台紧随其后上线，但我觉得在金融市场中表达观点的比例，永续合约对现货的比例，可能已经接近阶段性高点。

And look, we've got a perps platform coming on just after you, but I feel like the ratio of expressing a thesis in a financial market, the ratio of perps to spot is maybe reaching a local top.

我觉得我们可能会看到这个比例开始反转。

And I think we might start to see that flip back.

而且我觉得，尤其是随着我们正在将更多资产类别代币化，特别是把高质量的股票带到链上，现在这个时机比以往任何时候都更加真实，非常适合这次发布。

And I think especially as we're tokenizing additional asset classes and we're bringing high quality equities in particular onchain, I mean, the moment has never been more real than it is right now for this launch.

你看，衍生品，尤其是Hyperliquid，已经证明了这类链上产品是有需求的。

I mean, look, derivatives and in particular Hyperliquid, right, have proven that there is demand for these types of onchain products.

对。

Yep.

但衍生品市场只允许你投机，对吧，针对某个资产的价格。

But derivative markets allow you just to speculate, right, on the price of a given asset.

它必须从某个东西中衍生出价格。

It has to derive a price from something.

所以，尤其是当我们现在将现实世界资产代币化，并把像股票这样的东西带到链上，而这些股票并不是在24/7的市场中交易的。

So especially when we are now tokenizing real world assets, and we're bringing things like stocks onchain that don't trade in twenty four seven venues.

我们需要的，就像我们有一个链上的CME一样，

We need just as much as we have one, an onchain CME.

我们也需要一个链上的NYSE或NASDAQ。

We need an onchain NYSE or, you know, NASDAQ.

因为你需要深度流动的现货市场，里面有真实世界的资产，那些真正代表底层的东西。

Because you need, deeply liquid spot markets, real world assets in them, things that actually represent the underlying.

它们不只是衍生品或包装品之类的。

They aren't just, like, derivatives or wrappers or things like that.

而这些将成为这类市场定价的基础，我认为会越来越如此。

And those will be the foundation on which these types of markets, I think, increasingly price

甚至衍生品市场也会越来越多地依赖这些。

In which even derivatives markets increasingly tap into.

但是，是的，我们已经看到了像Hyperliquid这样的衍生品市场能实现什么，它包裹了100%的价值。对。

But, yes, I think we've seen what's possible now with a derivative market like Hyperliquid that wraps a 100% of the value Mhmm.

然后说，嘿。

And says, hey.

看。

Look.

我们就是链上的CME。

We're the onchain CME.

来找我们吧。

Come find us.

你知道吗？

You know?

你可以押注链上经济的增长。

You can bet on the growth of the onchain economy.

我觉得还没有人真正为现货交易所这个垂直领域做到这一点，而它对链上经济同样至关重要。

I don't think anyone's yet done that for the spot exchange vertical, just as critical to the onchain economy.

所以这就是我们过去一年一直在努力做的事情。

So that's what we've been building for the last year to go do.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

那跟我们讲讲已经发生的一系列事件吧。

And so take us through the the sequence of events that have taken place.

显然，这是你长期以来一直努力争取的重要时刻。

Obviously, this was a big moment that you've been working towards for a long time.

Aerodrome已经在Base上上线了。

Aerodrome has been live on base.

你们的表现真是非常出色。

You guys have been absolutely crushing.

然后你们做了这个决定。

And, you know, you made the decision.

我看到审计已经完成了。

I saw audits wrapped up.

没有大的阻碍。

No major holdups.

所以我们就继续往前推进。

So we're we're forging ahead.

你提到我们大概还有两周时间，而且我们会在多个链上看到。

You mentioned that we're about two weeks away, and we will see on a number of chains.

你提到了Arbitrum、Robinhood、Optimism和以太坊主网。

You mentioned Arbitrum, Robinhood, Optimism, Ethereum mainnet.

给我们讲讲接下来两周会发生什么，最后我们怎么迎来这个重要的上线时刻。

Give us a sense of what is going to unfold over the next two weeks as we ultimately culminate in this big go live moment.

我觉得……

I mean, I think...

让我们回到四年前，我们刚推出Velodrome的时候。

Let's take a step back to four years ago when we first launched Velodrome.

我们基本上是五个匿名的人，对吧，是在一个Discord里认识的。

We were five basically anonymous guys, right, who had met in a Discord.

但我们围绕一个共同的愿景走到了一起，就是建立更好的系统，把100%的价值重新分配。

But, like, we aligned around this shared vision of building better systems that redistribute a 100% of the value.

我们从来不是第一个进入市场的。

And we have never been first to market.

但我们相信我们带来了市场上最好的产品，这远比抢先更重要。

But we believe we brought the best product to market, and that is far more important.

所以当我们推出Velodrome的时候……

So when we launch Velodrome...

所以我觉得这就像是一个预告，看看接下来会发生什么。

So this is like a preview of, I think, what's coming.

我们推出Velodrome的时候，面对的是那些市值数十亿的巨头，嗯。

When we launched Velodrome, we were up against billion dollar incumbents Mhmm.

他们还有风投支持。

With VC backing.

但我们靠的是产品质量。

And it was through the quality of the product.

靠的是技术和经济模式的结合，嗯。

Was through the combination of technology and economics Mhmm.

我们才能在Optimism上赢得主导份额，成为那里最大的交易所。

That we were able to win dominant share first on Optimism, becoming the largest exchange there.

然后当然，我们还在上一个周期最重要的链上推出并成为主导交易所。

And then, of course, launch and become the dominant exchange on probably the single most important chain of the last cycle.

所以对我们来说，把这两个交易所合并到一起，用同一个代币统一起来，这个时刻

And so for us, this moment of bringing these two exchanges together, unifying them around a single token

顺便说一句，这个代币代表了对交易所当前和未来生产价值的100%索取权。

A token, by the way, that represents a 100% claim on the current and future productive value of the exchange.

现在，从服务大约15%的可寻址现货市场，

And now going from servicing about 15% of the addressable spot market Yeah.

扩大到四倍大的规模，我觉得非常令人兴奋。

To something four times larger, I think is super exciting.

另外，我觉得这个时刻特别令人兴奋的是，我昨天刚看了DeFi Lama。

And the other thing that I think is super exciting about this moment, I mean, I was just looking at DeFi Lama yesterday.

我看到了。

I saw this.

所以在过去三十天里，对吧，Aerodrome只存在于一条链上。

So over the past thirty days, right, Aerodrome exists on one chain.

那条链占了链上现货交易量的大约15%。

That chain does about 15% of onchain spot quality.

15。

15.

十五。

One five.

过去三十天，我们的收入超过了任何其他现货交易所。

We are doing, over the past thirty days, more revenue than any other spot exchange.

今年到目前为止，我们的收入也超过了任何其他现货交易所。

We are doing more revenue year to date than any other spot exchange.

而且从成立以来，我们的总收入也超过了任何其他现货交易所。

And in our lifetime, we've done more revenue than any other spot exchange.

哇。

Wow.

所以，我们在只服务一小部分市场的情况下做到了这一点。

So we're doing that while servicing a fraction of the

市场。

market.

只占市场的15%，却创造了比市场上任何人都多的收入。

15% of the market and generating more revenue than anyone else in the market.

我觉得我们看竞争对手的时候，会发现他们的增长已经到顶了。

I mean, you know, I think we look at the competitive competitive set set and and we we we see them as being capped out on growth.

他们已经服务了所有的链。

They already service every chain.

他们支持所有类型的交易对。

They service every type of pair.

他们已经存在很久了，到处都有他们的身影。

They've been everywhere for quite some time.

而我们的增长之旅，我觉得才刚刚开始。

We have just started, I think, our growth journey.

所以如果我们现在已经在收入上领先了，而且我们还能进入那些规模是现在四倍的新市场。

And so if we're already leading on revenue today, and we're gonna be able to enter new markets that represent four x.

而且，我们不只是瓜分现有的蛋糕，还在通过代币化股票和外汇这些东西把蛋糕做大。

And by the way, at a moment in which we're not just, like, eating away of the existing pie, but we're growing it through things like tokenized stocks and FX.

我觉得我们有很大的机会让所有人震惊，就像当初Hyperliquid让大家震惊一样。

I think we have a tremendous opportunity to shock people, I think, much like people were shocked by Hyperliquid.

那种代币、平台和资产，不仅吸引了链上用户的注意，也吸引了传统投资者的目光。

And that was the type of token and platform and asset that didn't just get the attention of onchain audiences, but traditional investor audiences as well.

这个社区和你的代币结构，和之前有很多相似之处。

There are a lot of similarities in the community and in the structure of how you've put together this token.

所以我想先谈谈接下来会有什么发展，因为你已经提到这个机会有多让人兴奋。

And so I I I want to talk about first maybe what to expect because you've you've, you know, already alluded to how exciting this this is, the opportunity at stake here.

我对Robinhood很好奇，也许我们会聊聊代币化股票。

I'm curious about Robinhood, and maybe we'll talk about tokenized equities.

我们会谈谈外汇，还有可能其他一些链。

We'll talk about forex and maybe, you know, some of the other chains here.

但我好奇的是，在你考虑链上生态和发布地点时，Robinhood是不是一直在计划之中？

But I'm curious, was Robinhood always in the cards as you were looking at kind of the the onchain landscape and where to launch?

还有什么是……

And and what is...

我们能期待些什么？

What can we expect?

显然，那里发生了很多活动，也让人非常兴奋。

I mean, obviously, there's been so much activity and so much excitement around what's happened there.

也许热度稍微降了一点，但我认为它绝不会就此消失。

Maybe it's it's subsided a little bit, but I don't think by any means is it going away.

所以，你们从一开始就打算推出……

And so was it always the case that you were going to launch...

Aerodrome 打算在 Robinhood Chain 上推出吗？

Aerodrome was going to launch on Robinhood Chain?

一旦 Aero 上线，人们可以期待什么样的资金流动？

And and what can people expect in terms of the flows once Aero is live?

我想我们从第一天起就说过，回到去年秋天我们在纽约宣布这件事的时候，我们的目标就是成为以太坊和链上账户的交易所层。

I mean, I think we've said from day one, you know, going back to New York when when we announced this last fall, that our goal is to be the exchange layer of Ethereum and of the onchain account.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们的意图一直是确保我们的平台存在于任何人们发行新代币、任何人们交易这些代币的地方。

And so our intention was always to ensure that our platform existed anywhere people are issuing new tokens, anywhere people are trading them.

所以，当然，当像Robinhood这样的玩家以如此重要的方式进入链上时，我们预料到，显然，我们会去服务他们，并建立我们在Base上拥有的那种深度流动性模式，在像Robinhood这样的链上，在像以太坊主网这样的链上，当然，我们最近也在ARK上推出了。

And so, of course, when you have a player like Robinhood come on chain in such a significant way, we expected that, obviously, we would be there servicing them and building this same type of deep liquidity mode that we have on base, on chains like Robinhood, on chains like mainnet Ethereum, and of course, we also recently launched on ARK.

所以，是的，那一直是计划。

So, yeah, that was always the plan.

至于期望，我认为我们从第一天起就展示了一点，我们专注于一件事，只有一件事。

In terms of expectations, I mean, I think what we have shown from day one is we focus on one thing, one thing alone.

去中心化交易所靠流动性驱动。

A DEX is powered by liquidity.

如果你赢得了流动性，你就会赢得更多交易，赢得更多费用，然后赢得更多收入。

And if you win liquidity, you win more trades, you win more fees, you win then more revenue.

然后你可以把这些价值重新注入系统。

And then you can inject that value right back into the system.

所以我们会用同样的优势，我们用这个优势去赢得像Optimism这样的链。嗯。

And so we will use the same edge that we use to that we use to win, chains like Optimism Mhmm.

像Base这样的链，去赢得像Robinhood这样的链上越来越大的份额。嗯。

Chains like Base to win increasingly large shares of chains like Robinhood Mhmm.

还有主网的以太坊，对。

And mainnet Ethereum Yeah.

这就是把去中心化交易所的全部生产价值都资本化到一个代币里，把它包装起来，这比单纯的交易手续费要多，然后用它来奖励流动性提供者。

Which is just capitalizing a 100% of the productive value of the DEX in a token, wrapping it, something in excess of just trading fees alone, and rewarding liquidity providers with it.

我预计流动性提供者会像在其他网络上一样做出同样的选择，也就是说，如果你拿自己的资本去冒险，去创造市场，你愿意得到一块五一美元、一美元，还是七毛五一美元？

And, you know, I expect liquidity providers to make the same choice they have on other networks, which is if you are taking on the risk of your capital, you are making those markets, do you wanna get paid a buck 50 on the dollar, a dollar, or 75¢ on a dollar?

在我们推出产品的地方，人们正是因为这个原因而更喜欢我们的平台，我们也希望在所推出的每一条链上都是如此。

And where we've launched the product, people prefer our platform for exactly that reason, and we expect it to be no different on any chain that we we launch.

所以你们之前在别的链上赢得过市场份额，但我想我们都明白流动性会带来流动性，而你们成为Base上的市场领导者已经有一段时间了，所以这和在你们已经赢得市场之后，竞争态势略有不同。

So you've won market share on chains before, but I I think we understand, you know, liquidity begets liquidity, and you guys have been the market leader on Base for a while now, and so it's a little bit of a different competitive dynamic after you've already won the market.

现在你们要作为全新的交易所去这些新链上推出，那么请给我们讲讲，与“我们已经赢了，我们继续维持”相比，在这些新链上全新启动并从一开始就引导和增长流动性，这种做法的不同之处在哪里？

Now you're going and you're launching as a fresh new exchange on some of these new chains, and so give us a sense of what is different to the approach of, hey, we've already won this market, we are continuing to maintain that versus we're going be launching new and it's time to now bootstrap liquidity and grow liquidity from the jump on these new chains.

我的意思是，嘿，你看，我们只是回到了我们的初心。

Mean, hey, look, we're just getting back to our roots here.

当Velodrome刚推出时，我们可能只有几百万美元的TVL存入。

You know, when Velodrome launched, we probably had a few million dollars in TVL deposited in us.

你看，我们当时看着像Curve、Uniswap、Balancer这些项目，心里想，天哪，如果我们能在同一个生态里跟他们正面竞争，那该多棒啊。

And look, we were looking at folks like Curve, like Uniswap, like Balancer and going, you know, my god, wouldn't it be incredible if we could go toe to toe with them in this one single ecosystem?

然后事情就开始慢慢积累起来了。

And what happens is it just starts building up.

因为如果你确实有更好的产品，能更好地奖励流动性提供者，他们就会来，会聚集起来，不断聚集。

Because if you do have a better product, if you can reward liquidity providers better, they will come, they will consolidate, consolidate.

这就形成了增长的飞轮效应。

That creates that growth flywheel.

在Base上也是一样。

Same thing on Base.

我们并不是第一个上Base的。

We were not first on Base.

这其实很多人都忘了，因为我们在那里占据了这么大的主导份额。

This is actually something most people forget because we have taken such a dominant share there.

链上交易量的60%到70%。

60, 70% of the onchain volumes.

人们以为我们只是去得早。

People think we were just there early.

直到今天还有人问我，嘿，你以前在Coinbase工作过吗？

I still today get asked, hey, did you used to work at Coinbase?

你们是靠这个搞定那些的吗？

Is that how you guys manage that?

我说，不是。

And I said, no.

我们只是带着更好的产品出现，然后一点点抢占市场份额。

We just showed up with a better product and we started chipping away at market share.

所以，是的，我们会像之前进入那些扩展的生态系统一样，进入这些新的生态系统。

And so, yeah, we will enter these new ecosystems just like we entered the ones that we expanded to prior.

对。

Yep.

最神奇的是，那些时刻我们团队还很小。

And the most amazing thing is is, like, those were moments where we were still a small team.

我们当时用的是第一版和第二版的DEX操作系统。

We were on the first and second version of our DEX operating system.

我们即将推出的是第三版，也是我们迄今为止最有野心的一版。

What we are going to launch is our third and the most ambitious one we have yet.

现在我们已经有了可靠的业绩记录。

And now we've got a proven track record.

所以我觉得到时候会有很多精彩的表现。

And so I think it's gonna be a lot of fireworks.

而且我觉得会有很多人关注。

And I think a lot of people will be watching.

说实话，我觉得这会非常有趣。

And frankly, I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.

我觉得DeFi领域已经有一段时间没有出现这么大的颠覆了。

I think we haven't seen a big disruption like this in DeFi in some time.

这会有多快发生？

How fast is this going to happen?

就是说，这个转变会一下子发生吗？

Like, is the switch gonna flip?

我想你们肯定已经在和流动性提供者沟通，了解他们的偏好了吧。

I I gotta imagine you guys are already talking to liquidity providers and and understanding preferences.

显然大家都希望拿到百分之百的偿付，这点不言而喻，但说到潜在的迁移，可能有一些物流和运营上的考量，需要提前搞清楚。

Obviously people want a 100¢ on the dollar, so that part kind of goes without saying, but when it comes to migrating potentially, there are maybe some logistical and operational considerations that are important to understand ahead of time.

你们是怎么处理这些问题的？我们大概什么时候能看到这些资金流动？

How are you approaching those and how quickly should we anticipate some of these flows happening?

我会这么看这个问题。

I I would think about it this way.

我好像还没在播客上聊过这个，不过我们当然已经在Base上运营了相当长一段时间了。

I don't think I've actually talked about this on a podcast before, but we have, of course, existed on Base for for quite some time.

这意味着我们和所有人都有合作。

So that means we work with everybody.

所有主要的做市商都在我们的平台上参与。

Every major market maker participates on our platform.

每个主要项目都在我们的平台上运行。

Every major project participates on our platform.

代币发行方也在我们的平台上启动。

Token issuers launch on our platform.

而且这些参与者不仅仅存在于Base上。

And these are players that don't just exist on Base.

他们在以太坊主网上也有。

They exist on mainnet Ethereum.

他们在Robinhood上也有。

They exist on Robinhood.

他们在Arbitrum上也有。

They exist on Arbitrum.

多年来，早在我们有扩张计划之前，他们就一直问我们，甚至恳求我们，请把这些部署到其他生态系统中，因为他们知道这是最好的基础设施。

And for years, long before we even had a plan to expand, they would ask us, beg us to come, please deploy this in these other ecosystems because we know this is the best infrastructure.

我们在Base上的选择和以太坊主网一样，但我们选择Aero，因为它是启动的最佳地点，是赚钱的最佳地点，是交易的最佳地点，我们希望能在主网、以太坊、Arbitrum、Robinhood这些市场也能获得这种体验。

We have the same choices on base that we do on Ethereum mainnet, but we choose Aero because it's the best place to launch, it's the best place to earn, it's the best place to trade, And we want this access to this in markets like mainnet, Ethereum, Arbitrum, Robinhood.

所以与其说是我们主动去找人，不如说完全不是这样。

And so very much it's even less of like we're going out there and we're having to know, line these people up.

这些人确实一直在——对。

These people have been yeah.

他们一直在要求我们过去。

Asking for it.

他们早就想让我们去了。

They've been trying to get us there for some time.

我想这周我们刚开始宣布一些第一天就会迁移到Aero的人。

I think this week we've just started announcing some of the folks who will be migrating over to Aero on day one.

所以我觉得在一些市场里，这个变化会非常非常快。

And so I think in some of these markets, it's gonna happen very, very fast.

而且你会看到那种催化剂的时刻。

And you're gonna see this sort of catalyst sort of moment.

你也会看到那种很棒的时刻，就是一个池子只有一百美元的锁仓量，但APR是无限的，给那些想早点进场、做市的人。

You're also gonna see that great moment of a pool, you know, with, like, a $100 in TVL in it and infinity APR, you know, for those folks who wanna get in there early and make those markets.

所以，是的，我觉得这会非常非常快地发生。

So, yeah, I think it's gonna happen very, very quickly.

对我们来说，令人兴奋的是，你看，即使进展缓慢，这对我们来说也都是边际增长。

And the exciting part to us is, like, look, even if it goes slowly, this is all marginal growth for us.

如果我们能继续一点点推进，我希望到年底我们能在链上现货交易量中的份额翻倍，至少

And if we can just continue to chip away at it, you know, I wanna see us by end of year having doubled our share of onchain spot volumes at the very

是这样。

least.

好的。

Okay.

但我认为可能会比那大得多。

But I think it could go much bigger than that.

我觉得这完全取决于接下来会发生什么。

I think it all depends on what happens next.

但我……

But I...

比如说，我看了一下过去三十天的情况，我们的链上现货交易量份额从五十分之一涨上来了。

I've looked at it, like, in the past thirty days, for instance, we went from one fiftieth of the share of onchain stock volumes Okay.

在自动做市商里，嗯。

In AMMs Mhmm.

涨到了大约三分之一。

To about one third.

这就是我们抢占市场的方式。

So this is the way in which we eat markets.

我们在不断扩大链上现货交易量的份额。

We're growing our share of onchain stock volumes.

我们是链上最大的外汇交易平台。

We're the number one FX venue onchain.

我们是链上最大的比特币交易平台。

We're the number one Bitcoin venue onchain.

我觉得有时候阻碍我们赢得更大市场份额的唯一原因，就是我们甚至没有参与某些市场的竞争。

And the only thing I think that's been holding us back at moments from winning an even larger share is just not even competing in some of these markets.

所以我们非常激动能把这款产品带给所有EVM用户。

So we're so excited to bring this product, you know, to everybody across EVM.

就是……

Just...

我的意思是，这是非常激动人心的时刻。

I I mean, it's super exciting times.

还有几个问题想收个尾。

Just a couple more questions to to kind of close the loop here.

当你们面对多链方案时，是否需要对不同链采取不同的处理方式？

When you look at a multi chain approach, do you have to approach these chains differently?

在主网上的部署和Robinhood上的部署看起来会有所不同吗？

Does the deployment on mainnet look any different than the deployment on Robinhood?

当然，链上活动的构成差异非常大。

I mean, certainly the composition of of activity on the chains are very very different.

我觉得在Base链上，活动主要集中在一线蓝筹流动性、外汇流动性和交易量，以及越来越多的代币化股票上。

I think on base, you see it heavily weighted towards blue chip liquidity, FX liquidity and volume, and increasingly tokenized stocks.

在主网上，你会看到同样深厚的蓝筹流动性池，包括RAPT和比特币。

On mainnet, you see the same kind of deep pools of blue chip liquidity, RAPT, Bitcoin.

我觉得你会看到很多真实世界资产首先在以太坊主网上发行。

I think you're gonna see a lot of RWAs issue first on mainnet Ethereum.

所以这很不一样。

So that's very different.

而在Robinhood上，当然，今天它非常偏向长尾。

And on Robinhood, of course, today, it's very much long tail.

就是那些模因币、启动平台之类的东西。

It's it's memes, it's launchers, and it's that type of thing.

所以，是的，每个市场都会有点不同，但我认为我们会专注于我们最擅长的领域，也就是在最有效的交易对上建立深度高效的流动性。

So, yeah, it will be a little bit different in each market, but I think we will go after our bread and butter in in each, which is building that deep super efficient liquidity on the most efficient pairs.

我们知道这样做会带来什么结果。

And we know what happens when we do that.

慢慢地，流动性提供者会转移过来，从而产生这些复合的网络效应。

Slowly, liquidity providers move over that creates these compounding network effects Mhmm.

然后你会赢得越来越多的交易量和市场份额。

And you win more and more volume, more and more share.

但我们想在所有领域竞争。

But we want to compete for everything.

交易所是赢家通吃的市场，对吧。

Exchanges are winner take most markets Mhmm.

我们打算成为那个最大的赢家。

And we intend to take the most.

最后一个问题。

Last question for you.

我觉得你刚才暗示了人们可以在这些不同的链上期待什么。

And and, you know, I I think you're alluding to what people can expect on some of these different chains.

可能在Robinhood上，这些池子一开始的流动性会少一些。

Probably on Robinhood, these pools are gonna have a little bit less liquidity to start with.

它们还比较早期，这意味着更高的年化收益率。

They're a little bit more nascent, which means higher APYs.

在主网上，对吧，可能会因为我们所看的资产分布不同而有所差异。

On mainnet, right, could be a little bit different depending on the asset distribution that we're looking at.

最后一个问题是，随着你市场份额和交易量的增长，这是否直接与收入相关，也就是说它们是否以非常相似的速度增长？

Last question here is, you know, as you grow market share and you grow volume, is that directly correlated to the revenue in the sense that these are growing at a very similar pace?

交易量和市场份额的线性增长是否等同于收入的线性增长，还是说它是递增的，比如在代币化股票中多获得几个百分点的市场份额，就会导致收入的指数级增长？

A linear growth model on volume and share equates to a linear growth in revenue, or it is incremental in the sense that you get a couple more percentile market share in tokenized equities, that leads to an exponential growth in revenue.

这两部分是如何协同作用的？

How do these two pieces of the puzzle work together?

是的，我认为如果你谈论的是所有链上现货交易量的总和，那么关系会非常直接。

Yeah, I mean, I think if you're talking in aggregate of all onchain spot volumes, yeah, the relationship will be very direct.

但就针对特定垂直领域而言，不一定是这样。

But in terms of attacking particular verticals, no, not necessarily.

比如，今天以太坊主网上有大量的流动性，对吧。

Like a a great deal of the liquidity on mainnet Ethereum, for instance, today Mhmm.

主要是稳定币对或相关资产对。

Is stable stable or correlated correlated pairs.

这些有大量的TBL。

These have a tremendous amount of TBL.

它们的交易量非常大。

They do an insane amount of volume Mhmm.

但因为它们是稳定币互换，所以费用收入并不高。

But they don't produce a ton in terms of fees because they're stable swaps.

所以，这意味着要赢得这些资金池，你需要以溢价奖励它们。

So what that means though is for you to win those pools over, reward them at a premium.

这并不太贵，因为它们目前产生的价值并不高。

It's not terribly expensive because they're not producing a lot of value right now.

实际上，现在平台开始对流动性提供者的收益征税，它们产生的价值更少了。

In fact, they're producing even less now that platforms have begun to tax the earnings of liquidity providers.

所以我们可以支付更多，赢得这些流动性提供者。

So we can out pay and win those LPs over.

这样就不会对费用等产生大的影响。

And that will be, you know, less of a contributor, you know, to massive shifts in fees and things like that.

但比如在罗宾汉上，是啊，我们攻击那些更小众的、只有1%的高利润交易对。对。

But on, like, Robinhood, yeah, attacking some of these more long tail 1% highly lucrative pairs Yeah.

那会推动另一个指标。

That will move that other needle.

但我觉得对我们来说，只要我们还在增长……

But I think for us, as long as we are growing...

我们想成为第一。对。

We wanna be number one Mhmm.

交易量。

Volume.

我们想成为第一的BEE。

We want to be number one bees.

我们想成为第一的TBL。

We wanna be number one TBL.

我们知道我们的收入已经是第一了，但我们想在这个指标上拉开差距。

We know we're already number one on revenue, but we wanna run up the score there.

我觉得大概就是这个顺序，也是我们想要进攻的方向。

And I think it's probably, you know, in about that order and how we want to attack things.

亚历克斯，你太厉害了。

Alex, you're the man.

每次你来，我都很感激。

Appreciate every time you come on.

我非常喜欢你进攻这些市场时的视角和野心。

I I I love the perspective and the ambition of which you you attack these markets.

我觉得市场开始……

And I think the market is starting to...

它有前瞻性。

You know, it's forward looking.

我觉得市场开始意识到这个机会有多大了，但说实话，我……

I think it's starting to realize the opportunity at stake, but honestly, I I...

我超级兴奋，我觉得市场对Aero的发布也同样期待。

I'm incredibly excited, and I think the market is as well for the launch of Aero.

我也特别兴奋，而且我也想夸夸你们。

Super excited and I just wanted to commend you guys too.

看着你们过去一年的成长，还有最近这一个月你们俩的表现。

Watching your growth, over the last year, watching the last month that you two have had.

这一路走来真的非常精彩，让我觉得能一直陪伴在你们身边。

I mean, it has been an incredible journey to feel like I've been able to be, alongside of.

所以恭喜你们取得的所有成功。

So congrats on all the success

谢谢。

Appreciate it.

也恭喜你们。

For you guys as well.

我们是一起在走这条路的。

We're we're on this journey together.

谢谢你们来参加节目。

Thanks for coming on.

谢谢，

Thanks,

兄弟。

man.