Circle首席执行官：整个金融系统正在走向链上（我们仍处于早期阶段）

杰里米。

Jeremy.

欢迎来到节目，杰里米。

Welcome to the show, Jeremy.

这是你的节目。

This is your show.

这是你的世界。

This is your world.

很高兴很快又能见到你。

Great to have you back soon.

那是哈利。

That's Harry.

太棒了。

Awesome.

恭喜。

Congratulations.

谢谢你，兄弟。

Thank you, man.

当然。

Absolutely.

今天真是特别的一天，杰里米。

What a day, Jeremy.

真是特别的一天。

What a day.

我是说，你看。

I mean, look.

你在主题演讲的开头就谈到了我们正在进入的这个现实，也就是这个新经济，特别是这种二元经济，或者也许大家是这么说的。

You started off your talk at the top in the keynote, and you just spoke about this reality that we're entering, which is just this new economy and specifically about this bifurcated economy, or perhaps that's the way that it's been talked about.

但你说这个经济不会是一个分裂的经济。

But you stated this economy is not going to be a split economy.

它会在链上。

It's going to be on chain.

它将在Arc上运行。

It's going to be on Arc.

跟我们聊聊你对Arc的愿景吧，关于代理经济，以及这里真正发生的事。

Talk to us about your vision here for Arc, the agentic economy, and what's really happening here.

其实，这些想法我们在某种程度上已经思考了很久。

I mean, it's stuff it's stuff we've been thinking about in some ways, like, for a very long time.

十三年前让我进入这个领域的原因，就是想到这些网络会变成计算机，你可以在这些计算机上部署软件机器。

Like, what got me into this whole space thirteen years ago was, like, the idea that these networks were gonna be computers and that you're gonna be able to, like, put software machines on these computers.

如果你真的能把真实资产，比如美元，还有合约放到链上，那你就能构建一个由软件驱动的经济。

And if you could actually put real assets like dollars, obviously, and and contracts that you could actually kinda construct a software powered economy.

所以最初的愿景就是，就像互联网上有软件驱动的通信、商业和媒体一样，一个由软件驱动的经济体系也是可能的。

And so, like, the founding vision was just like there's, like, software powered communications, commerce, media on the Internet, like, a software powered economic system would be possible.

所以很多方面，我们一直在沿着这条线推进，也在做不同的部分。

And so in in many ways, like, we've been pulling that thread and and kind of working on different pieces.

我觉得Arc在很多方面，就是那个最初愿景的完整实现。

And I think Arc is in many ways, like, it's the full manifestation of that founding vision.

我们正在打造一个操作系统。

Like, we're we're we're creating an operating system.

这是一个网络操作系统。

It's a network operating system.

它的目的是承载全部经济活动，不只是转移资金，还包括运行经济的合约、需要做的决策、治理机制，所有这些我们视为公司或经济体构建模块的机制，都可以上线运行。

Its purpose is to run, like, the full slate of economic activity, not just moving money around, but actually the contracts that run the economy, the, you know, the the decisions that have to be made, the governance mechanism, all these mechanisms that we think about as, the building blocks of of a firm or an economy can come online.

但这也是与其他操作系统的融合，这些可能是史上最强大的操作系统，也就是智能操作系统，它们非常出色，而且彼此需要。

But then it's this convergence of, you know, these these other operating systems, probably the most powerful operating systems ever created ever, which is intelligence operating systems, which are extraordinary, and they need each other.

所以我们的想法是，代理经济就是这两种操作系统，它们基本上是同一枚硬币的两面。

And so I think our idea is, like, the agentic economy is these two different operating systems, and they're basically two sides of the same coin.

代理系统是那些智能系统，而像Arc这样的经济操作系统提供信任、可验证性，以及经济活动的实际执行环境。

The agentic system is these these intelligent systems, and the economic operating systems like Arc provide the trust and verifiability, and the actual execution environment for the the economic stuff.

在一个代理激增的世界里，代理不仅能为我们个人做事，

And in a world of proliferating agents, where agents can do

而且我们实际上可以重新定义公司到底是什么。

things not just for us as individuals, but actually we reconstruct what a firm even is.

我们

We

把公司重新定义为由智能体协作完成工作的组织。

reconstruct the firm as these orchestrations of agents doing work.

我们创建的公司都在链上治理，这样一来，产出就能实现惊人的增长。

The corporations we create are governed onchain, and you you get this, like, incredible proliferation of output that's possible from that.

所以，我觉得这是最令人兴奋的事情。

And so it's it's it's I I think it's the most exciting thing.

我和克里斯·迪克森也聊过这个，就是说未来会出现新型公司，它们当然也有人，但很大一部分会是AI，而且它们需要这一层基础设施。

And Chris Dixon and I were talking about it too, which is like there's gonna be these new types of corporations that are there's they have they have people, obviously, but a lot of it is gonna be AI, and they need this layer.

我们就是在为这个而建设。

And we're building for that.

而且，我真的相信，这不仅仅是开发者用AI工具来更快地构建东西。

And, you know, I think I I genuinely believe it's it's not it's not just that, like, developers have AI tools to build stuff faster.

更重要的是，他们实际上部署的是AI智能体本身。

It's that actually what they're putting out there are AI agents themselves.

我觉得你描述的是一个智能经济。

I I think you're describing an intelligent economy.

而且从广义上讲，这是一场智能革命，你描述的是它不仅适用于经济。

And and broadly, this is an intelligence revolution, and you're describing that it is applicable to not only the economy.

每家公司都会实施这个。

Every company is going to in in implement this.

是的。

Yes.

我们会看到集体最终实现这种阶跃式增长，我觉得Arc就是典型例子。

And we are going to see the the collective ultimately create this step function, which I think Arc is exemplary of.

这是区块链的阶跃式增长。

It is a step function increase in blockchains.

而且我觉得在你加入之前，我和Andy就聊过这个，你有后见之明的优势。

And I think Andy and I were talking about this before you joined here, is that you had the benefit of hindsight.

之前已经有很多区块链出现了。

There's been so many blockchains that have come before.

这些都是学习的过程，现在Arc已经能够实现跨越式发展，就像AI模型之间互相超越一样。

All of that is a learning moment, and now Arc has been able to leapfrog very similar to the way AI models leapfrog one another.

你们已经超越了之前所有的区块链，真的感觉Arc是下一代区块链。

You've been able to leapfrog all of the blockchains that have come before, and it truly feels that Arc is a next generation blockchain.

我

I

意思是，我真的希望如此。

mean, I I really hope so.

而且我觉得，你知道，我喜欢用手机来打比方。

And I I think I you know, I I use the analogy of, like, mobile.

比如，有十五年人们一直在开发手机，包括大公司，微软、诺基亚、三星，全世界这些公司，还有PalmPilot、黑莓。

Like, there was fifteen years of people building building mobile, including massive companies, Microsoft, Nokia, Samsung, all these guys all around the world, the PalmPilot, the BlackBerry.

而且，每个人都觉得自己掌握了手机。

And, like, everyone thought they had mobile.

每个人都觉得，哦，我搞定了手机。

Everyone's like, oh, I've got mobile.

我有应用了。

I've got apps.

我能做这些事情。

I can do this stuff.

但那时候还没有真正实现。

But it wasn't act it wasn't it hadn't really actualized.

然后就像安卓和iOS的突破，这些新的操作系统。

And then it was like the breakthrough of Android and iOS, like these these new operating systems.

这些新的操作系统创造了表面区域，创造了用户体验，创造了开发者体验。

These new operating systems created the surface area, created the user experience, created the developer experience.

足够多的事情在正确的时间汇聚在一起，然后它们创造了一个环境，让人们可以创造出令人难以置信的新事物。

Enough things converged at the right time that they could pull together, that then they created an environment where, you know, people could create incredible new things.

这就是我对我们正在用Arc做的事情的看法。

And that's how I think about what we're doing with Arc.

我真的这么认为。

I really genuinely do.

我觉得这对那些想创造和建设的人来说是一个很棒的环境，而且我们确实有后见之明的好处。

I I think this is an amazing environment for people who wanna create and build, and we really feel like we did have the benefit of hindsight.

我们见过，而且你知道，我们在区块链领域拥有全球最跨平台的应用。

We've seen and, you know, we we have the most cross platform app in the world in blockchain.

USDC是市面上最跨平台的东西。

USDC is the most cross platform thing out there.

所以我们很在意这一点。

So we care about that.

我们了解这一点。

We know about that.

而且这其实也很有意思。

And and that's actually even interesting.

比如，互操作性在Arc中是非常非常核心的部分。

Like, interoperability is a deep, deep, deep part of Arc.

如果你在Arc上发行资产，你可以通过CCTP将你的资产分发到超过20个网络。

You you if you issue an asset on Arc, you can ride on CCTP and distribute your asset to over 20 networks.

所以，即使，你知道，我们，我们，我们，即使，Arc，我们想在上面跑很多，但是，人们也会在世界各地其他地方分发东西。

So that even even you know, you know, we we we do even, you know, Arc, we wanna run a lot on, but, like, people are gonna distribute stuff all around the world in other places too.

而且，而且，我觉得手机这个类比很好，因为它描述了一种真正通用且灵活的技术，足以支持非拟物化的用例。

And and and I think the mobile analogy is a great one because it describes a technology that is truly general and flexible enough to support non skeuomorphic use cases.

是的。

Yes.

所以，你描述的，我的意思是，独特的优势，你这里就有。

And and so what you're describing, I mean, unique advantage, you have it here.

Gas和数字美元，亚秒级最终性，可选隐私，后量子韧性，代理就绪，以及资产和互操作性。

Gas and digital dollars, sub second finality, opt in privacy, post quantum resilience, agent ready, and assets and interrupt.

这些是让Arc区别于其他区块链的独特价值主张。

These are the unique value propositions that make Arc different from other blockchains.

这些就是让Arc独一无二的地方。

Those are what make the Arc unique.

我的问题是，这意味着什么？

My question is, what is the implications?

因为Arc实现了这些独特优势，现在有什么是可能做到的？

What what is now possible because Arc has implemented these unique advantages?

嗯，我们一直在讨论，真正的金融体系什么时候会进入这些网络。

Well, I mean, like, you know, we we've all talked about, like, when does the actual financial system, like, come on to these networks?

我们一直需要这些东西。

And we've needed these things.

那些想这么做的公司，他们需要隐私。

You know, the the companies that wanna do it, like, they need privacy.

他们需要一个操作环境，不用面对波动性大的加密货币。

Like, they need an operational environment where they're not dealing with volatile cryptocurrencies.

他们需要知道基础设施是稳健的，并且作为金融市场公用设施来运营。

You know, they they they need they need to know that the infrastructure is is, like, robust and operated as a financial market utility infrastructure.

现在，他们需要知道，在构建和部署时，安全防护、安全工具和AI工具都一应俱全。

You know, they they now, today, they need to know that when they're building and deploying, it has, safety harness, security harness, and AI tooling that's all right there.

所以这基本上是在迎合主流需求。

And so it's sort of meeting the mainstream where it is.

而且我们多年来一直在倾听这些需求，USDC让我们有了第一手的观察机会。

What and and we've been listening to that, you know, for years, and USDC gave us a front row seat

是的。

Yep.

因为那是机构最先进入的地方。

Because that was the first place institutions were coming.

他们当时就想，好吧。

They were like, okay.

我们现在有了一种受监管的方式来转移资金，那也是他们最先来的地方。

We we now have a regulated way to, like, move money around, and, like, that was the first place that they were coming.

然后，代币化资产开始出现，并且所有这些都与USDC集成。

And then, like, tokenized assets started coming and all of those integrating with USDC.

所以我们长期以来一直贴近这个领域，我觉得这其实就是倾听市场、倾听客户的声音。

So we we've been close to this for a very long time, and and I think it's just, like, listening to the market, listening to customers.

你知道吗？

You know what?

杰里米，我想接着罗布的问题和你刚才的回答往下说。

Just kinda build off of Rob's question and your answer here, Jeremy.

你这是在拼一个很大的拼图啊。

You're kinda putting together quite the puzzle here.

你从Circle的USDC起步。

You started with USDC in Circle.

现在它已经发展得非常庞大了。

It's grown to a enormous size.

USDC上所有x四零二交易中，99.6%都是通过它完成的。

99.6% of all x four zero two transactions on USDC.

现在你把它扩展到了全球范围。

You've expanded this now globally.

你走的是合规路线。

You've done the regulated path.

你把事情都做得很规范。

You've got things done the right way.

显然，昨天要是能有明确的监管指引就好了，但现实就是这样。

Obviously, clarity would have been an amazing thing yesterday, but here we are.

我们还是继续通过SEC和CFTC的创新豁免来推进。

We still move forward with innovation exemptions from the SEC and CFTC.

现在你有了Arc。

Now you've got Arc.

还有你提到的那个操作系统的一些内容。

There's also a bit of the of the OS system that speak about.

你真正在构建的是什么？

What are you really building?

你不只是在做一个稳定币。

You're you're not just building a stablecoin.

你也不只是在做一条区块链。

You're not just building a blockchain.

更大的蓝图是什么？

What is the bigger picture?

我知道我一开始问过，但就你现在已有的这些部分来说，

I know I kind of asked at the top, but with the parts that you've got now

你真正想为这家公司构建的是什么？

What are you really constructing for this company?

你知道，当我创办这家公司的时候，我的想法是，互联网技术平台公司，它们会混合各种东西。

You know, like, when when I started the company and and and and got started, like, my my mental model was there's Internet technology platform companies, and they have a mixture of things.

它们运营平台。

They run platforms.

它们运营应用程序。

They run applications.

它们运营核心服务，而且这些都锚定在不同的领域。

They run, like, core services, and and they're all anchored in different areas.

所以，比如，商务锚定在亚马逊，通讯锚定在脸书，信息发现和知识锚定在谷歌，你明白吗？

So you have, like, commerce was anchored around Amazon, and, like, communications was anchored around Facebook, and, like, information discovery and knowledge was anchored around Google, you know?

生产力锚定在微软，移动端锚定在苹果。

And productivity was anchored around Microsoft, and mobile was anchored around Apple.

这些大型科技公司都是围绕它们的核心功能来发展的。

Like, these these tech these big tech companies were all anchored around, like, their their their their core utility.

我当时相信，如果这个趋势继续下去，就会出现围绕经济体系和金融体系来发展的互联网平台公司。

And my belief back then was if this plays out, there's going to be Internet platform companies that are anchored around the the economic system and the financial system.

而且会有互联网规模的平台服务，就像那些公司改变通信、媒体、商业和软件一样。

And there'll be Internet scale platform utilities that are in in in in the same way that those companies change, you know, communications and media and commerce and software and so on.

金融和经济体系也有这样的机会。

Like, there's an opportunity to do that with with the with the financial and economic system.

我坚信这是一个巨大的机遇。

And and I and I believe that that sort of stands as a big opportunity.

我不认为我们是唯一这样的公司。

Don't I think we're, like, the only company like that.

我觉得未来会有很多优秀的互联网平台公司，它们都在建设未来的经济。

There's gonna be a lot of, I think, you know, a number of of great Internet platform companies that are that are building the e the economy of the future.

确实有一些很棒的公司，但这就是我们看到的趋势。

There's some great amazing companies, but that's what I think we see.

所以我们想提供这样的平台基础设施。

And so we wanna provide that platform infrastructure.

我们想提供最好的数字资产。

We wanna provide the best, you know, digital assets.

我们想构建对人们有用的应用程序。

We wanna build applications that are useful for people.

但是，你知道，为了让这一切运作起来，它必须不同于世界上的中心化平台，它必须是广泛参与的。

But, you know, in order for this to work, it has to be unlike the centralized platforms of the world, it has to be something that is broadly participated in.

它的所有权、分配、价值增长和治理。

The ownership of it, the distribution of it, the value accretion, the governance.

所以Arc与传统互联网技术模式非常不同，因为它建立在区块链网络和开源等理念之上。

And so Arc is very, very different than a traditional Internet technology model because it is built on the ideology of blockchain networks and open source and and things like that.

所以这是一种不同的做法，而且，我们过去十到十五年也学到了很多。

And so we're we're it's a it's a different take on that and something, again, we've we've learned a lot from, you know, the last ten, fifteen years as well.

我是说，Jeremy，我不禁想到，Arc未来的发展形态，会更像一个替代性的金融生态系统，而不仅仅是一个加密资产。

I mean, Jeremy, I can't help but to think this the evolution of what Arc's gonna look like, it's going to look a lot more like an alternative financial ecosystem rather than just a crypto asset

是的。

Yes.

不仅仅是加密货币生态系统。

Crypto only ecosystem.

一个

A

完全正确。

100%.

我们从USDC作为基础开始。

We're starting with USDC as the foundation.

对。

Yep.

我们会有代币化的资产。

We're gonna have tokenized assets.

我们会有代币化的资产和货币。

We're have tokenized assets, currencies.

我们大概有，这个……

We've got about what this

我是说，你看。

I mean, look.

我觉得，其中一个重点是，你知道，我们发行了一些全球领先的资产，最大的数字美元，最大的数字欧元，最大的代币化货币市场基金。

I think, like, one of the things is, you know, I I think we issue some of the world's leading assets, the biggest digital dollar, the biggest digital euro, the biggest tokenized money market fund.

我们现在有了代币化的比特币，是的。

We now have tokenized Bitcoins serving Yes.

这真的很令人兴奋，而且它锚定在我们的国家信托银行里，托管也是破产隔离的。

The same which is which is which is really exciting and and is anchored in our National Trust Bank and and and, you know, and and the custody there, bankruptcy remote.

这就像一个很棒的可编程比特币。

It's like a great programmable Bitcoin.

但第一天就发行代币化股票的人，其实有一大堆。

But the of the number of people who are issuing tokenized equities day one, there's a whole bunch.

DTCC，也就是全球金融体系中证券的核心，复制了Arc。

The DTCC, which is the heart and soul of securities in the global financial system, copied the Arc.

最大的资产管理公司在Arc上发行他们的资产。

The biggest asset manager issuing their assets on Arc.

大概有12到16种外币稳定币在Arc上推出。

There's like 12 or 16 foreign currency stablecoins launching on Arc.

Arc上有一个外汇交易的基础设施。

There's an FX primitive on Arc.

还有，你知道的，ETF、债券发行方、信贷发行方。

There's, you know, ETFs, bond issuers, credit issuers.

所以我们看到所有这些不同的类别都在涌现，这非常令人兴奋。

So we're seeing all of these different categories coming, and that's very exciting.

是的，没错。

And it's yeah.

我们显然还处于起步阶段，但我认为，如果有资产要被代币化，就应该在Arc上进行，我们给资产发行方提供了非常强大的东西。

We're we're obviously at the very start, But I think, you know, if there's an asset to be tokenized, it should be on Arc, and we give asset issuers something very, very powerful.

我们给他们提供了全球最好的数字美元流动性，因为我们在USDC中的角色以及USDC在Arc上的运作方式，我们还给他们提供了分销渠道。

We give them the best liquidity against digital dollars in the world because of our role with USDC and the way that USDC works on Arc, and we give them distribution.

因为如果我是贝莱德，我在Arc上发行一个代币化ETF，我可以选择。

Because if I'm, you know, if I'm BlackRock and I issue a tokenized ETF on Arc, I can choose.

我想把它放在Hyper EBM上。

I wanna put it I wanna make it available on on on on Hyper EBM.

我想让它上线Base。

I wanna make it available on base.

我想让它上线Solana。

I wanna make it available on Solana.

我想让它在这些地方都能用，而且它能管理这些地方的流动性和分发，因为CCTP是区块链上最大的互操作高速公路。

I wanna make it available in these places, and it and it manages that distribution and liquidity across those because CCTP is the biggest interop highway on blockchains.

所以基本上，我们就是把高速公路开放给所有人的车。

And so we we just open the highway to everyone else's cars, basically.

Jeremy，首先我想说，老兄，Circle资产负债表上的Hyperliquid真是个硬核操作。

Jeremy, I first of all, I just wanna say, man, Hyperliquid on the balance sheet of Circle is an absolute Chad move, man.

太棒了。

Awesome.

杰里米，快结束了，想想我们接下来该往哪儿走。

As we come to a wrap, Jeremy, just thinking about kind of where we go from here.

到2026年，稳定币的流通供应量基本没什么增长。

Ending on 2026, stablecoin supply outstanding, relatively stagnant.

但你也知道，这可能是你经历的第四个周期了。

But as you and I know, this is maybe your fourth cycle.

这是我的第三个。

This is my third.

在熊市里，稳定币供应量持平其实是好事。

A a flat stablecoin supply in a bear market is a good thing.

这没什么问题。

That is okay.

不是坏事。

Not a bad thing.

我的意思是，公开市场的人会问我们这些事。

I mean, like, I mean, we talk the people in the public market ask us about this, all this.

比如，我们看到了一些脱钩的情况。

Like, we've seen some decouplings.

所以稳定币在支付和结算方面的实用性一直在不断增长。

So stablecoin utility and payments and settlement has grown and grown and grown.

而且你知道，当风险资本减少时，这部分就相对稳定。

And you've you know, when there's not as much risk capital, so that's more static.

但稳定币的供应量一直很稳定，而稳定币的支付量在增长。

But the stablecoin supply has been pretty steady, and the stablecoin payment volumes are growing.

所以我们看到，很多不同领域的交易量都在增长。

And so we're seeing, like, the transaction volumes on so many different fronts growing.

这很棒。

And so that's great.

这是根本的实用性。

That's that's fundamental utility.

而且实际上，你知道，我们在上次财报后讨论过，这就是与金融系统的互操作性。

And and and actually, you know, we talked about this after our last earnings, it's interoperability with the financial system.

所以这表明，与真实支付系统的流动性和互操作性正在发挥作用并且不断增长。

And so it shows that the, you know, the the liquidity and the and the interoperability with with real world payment systems is working and growing.

而这确实非常

And that's that's really