克里斯塔·林奇：华尔街全力押注数字资产（内幕视角）

看着这个变化过程挺有意思的，从一开始我们求着他们，说能不能跟我们聊一聊，他们连电话都不接，到现在他们反过来……

It's been funny to watch the evolution go from us being like, will you please have a conversation with us and them not picking up the phone to now them...

他们现在拼命给我们发邮件，求我们教育他们。

They, you know, inundate us in our our emails to please educate me.

请多告诉我一些。

Please tell me more.

我的客户想要这个。

My clients want this.

我怎么才能给他们呢？

How can I give it to them?

我是Robbie，你正在收看的是The Rollup。

My name is Robbie, and you're watching The Rollup.

今天，我想请你订阅、评论、点赞，并支持我们的频道。

And today, I'm asking you to please subscribe, comment, like, and support our channel.

我们采访了数字资产、数字金融和代币化领域里一些最优秀、最聪明的人。

We interview some of the best and brightest minds in digital assets, digital finance, and tokenization.

我们做这些就是为了你们。

We are doing this for you.

所以请放松坐好，享受节目，非常感谢大家的支持。

So please sit back, relax, enjoy the show, and thank you so much for all your support.

好了，各位。

Alright, guys.

今天我们请到了灰度公司的克里斯塔·林奇，我们非常兴奋。

We got Krista Lynch from Grayscale here, and we're excited.

是的。

Yes.

感觉像是机构牛市的到来，而你们正在引领这股潮流。

It feels like an institutional bull market, and you guys are leading the charge.

欢迎来到我们的节目。

So welcome to the show.

谢谢你们的邀请。

Thank you for having me.

很高兴你能来。

It's a pleasure to have you.

就像我说的，我们已经多次邀请你的搭档扎克·潘诺来上节目了。

Like I said, we've had your your your partner, Zach panel on several times.

是的。

Yep.

他总是很受欢迎。

He's always a pleasure.

我们聊过Zcash。

We've chatted Zcash.

我们聊过好几件你们正在引领的事情，就像我说的。

We've chatted several things that you guys are, like I said, leading the charge on.

你是实物交易女王，所以我们会聊聊这个。

You're the in kind transaction queen, so we're gonna be chatting about that.

也许我们可以直接开始。

Maybe we can just start.

你最期待的是什么？

What what are you most excited about?

因为灰度有一个非常广泛的产品线。

Because Grayscale's got a very broad product suite.

你们已经存在很长时间了。

You guys have around a long time.

跟我们说说你最期待什么，你把大部分精力都放在哪里。

Give us a sense of what you're most excited about, where you're spending most of your attention.

嗯，你提到了其中两个。

Well, you hit on two of them.

所以我会从实物申赎这个非常讨喜的介绍开始。

So I would start off with in kind, very flattering introduction.

顺便介绍一下，我其实在ETF领域工作了很多年，不只是加密货币，之前还做过固定收益ETF。

By way of introduction, I've actually been in ETFs for many years, not just crypto, but actually fixed income ETFs before this.

所以我对ETF的一级市场有丰富的经验。

So I have a lot of experience with the primary market for ETFs.

这就是它们创建和赎回的方式。

That's how they're created and redeemed.

通常来说，普通投资者是接触不到这个的。

Now typically, that's not available to end investors.

这其实是一个机构市场，由所谓的授权参与者来运作。

That's really only an institutional market that's facilitated by something called an authorized participant.

但我们在加密货币产品上发现，我们实际上能够与授权参与者和其他中介合作，为那些想把代币投入ETF的个人客户打开大门。

But what we're finding for the crypto products is we've actually been able to partner with authorized participants and other facilitators to open the doors to individual customers who want to put their tokens into the ETF.

这让他们能够获得保证金、抵押品和机构级托管服务。

It allows them to get margin, collateral, institutional custody.

最近黑客新闻这么多，很多人觉得这样更安心。

With all the news about hacks recently, a lot of people feel more comfortable with that.

所以我们很自豪能为客户提供这样的服务。

And so we've been very proud to be able to facilitate that for our clients.

说到Zcash，这正好衔接上了，因为我们刚刚推出了一个基于Zcash的ETF。

Now Zcash, it all ties in nicely because we've just launched an ETF on Zcash.

所以我们现在也可以为那些手里有Zcash、想把它放进机构级解决方案的客户提供这种实物兑换的能力，他们现在可以直接把Zcash换成ETF。

So we can now also offer this in kind capability for maxes potentially who have Zcash laying around and wanna put it into an institutional grade solution, they can now in kind it into the ETF.

好的。

Okay.

那我们就从整体上聊聊实物交易吧。

And so in kind transactions, let's just start holistically.

你说的是……

You're talking about...

我们有一个基础工具，一个现货资产，对。

We have a a bear instrument, a spot asset Yeah.

它代表的就是代币本身，也就是那个资产。

That represents the token, the the, you know, asset itself.

然后我们还有一个ETF，这个工具会在券商平台上交易，而实物交易的部分就是让人们可以在ETF和资产本身之间进行赎回和互换。

And then we've got an ETF, which is this vehicle that is gonna live on a brokerage, and and the in kind aspect to this allows people to redeem and swap in and out between the ETF and the asset itself.

这会带来什么影响呢？

What are the implications of this?

这里的实物交易有什么价值主张？

What is the value proposition of an in kind transaction here?

这主要是因为税务规划而流行起来的。

So it's really caught on because of things like tax planning.

比如，如果你持有大量资产，并且希望万一自己出什么事，家人能继承这些资产，那么通过这种方式，你可以把它放进经纪账户，并受到相关规则和法规的保护。

For example, if you have a big position and you wanna ensure that your family gets it if something happens to you, this is a way that you can put it into a brokerage account and have those rules and regulations surrounding it.

还有一些人喜欢把所有东西放在一个地方的便利性。

Then there's also those who like the convenience of having everything in one place.

我们最初以为，比特币等ETF主要是为那些害怕或犹豫去进行加密货币原生操作（比如开钱包）的用户准备的。

Now we originally thought that the Bitcoin and so on ETFs were really going to be more for the user who was afraid or hesitant to do some of these crypto native actions like opening a wallet.

但我们越来越发现，实物交易对那些希望享受传统金融体系好处的加密货币原生投资者非常有吸引力。

But we are increasingly finding that in kind is something that is very appealing to crypto native investors wanting some of the benefits of being on the traditional rails.

更进一步说，我们最近在Token 2049大会上讨论了一些话题，关于将ETF重新代币化，使其回到数字轨道上。

Now to take it a step further, we've recently had some conversations especially here at token twenty forty nine, about then re tokenizing that to bring it back to the digital rails.

至于这是否会流行起来，还有待观察。

Now if that catches on, it remains to be seen.

但你真的可以把事情完整地循环起来，我觉得这就是我们在这里讨论的一部分。

But, you know, you can really take things full circle, and I think that's some of the conversation that we're having here.

那什么……

And what...

好的。

Okay.

所以我觉得从监管的角度来看，现在这已经可行了，因为有一些代币化的豁免。是的。

So I think from a regulatory perspective, this is now possible with some of the tokenization exemptions Yes.

我们看到的这些豁免……

That we've seen out of this...

来自美国证券交易委员会的。

Out of the SEC.

所以首先，这真的非常令人鼓舞，我们现在看到了非常深思熟虑的监管。

And so, I mean, for one, it's it's really, really, you know, encouraging that we're now seeing very thoughtful regulation.

他们在倾听这个行业的声音，允许我们做一些实验，看看投资者到底需要什么。

They're listening to this industry, They're allowing us to experiment a little bit and see what investors demand.

我们已经看到几个这样的产品上线了。

We've seen a couple of products like this go live.

你看到这些产品的需求怎么样？

Is the demand for these products that you've seen?

这些产品的价值主张是什么？比如，我本来可以直接在链上买Zcash，但我选择通过ETF来投资，然后再把它代币化带回链上。

What is the value proposition for, hey, you know, I could go get Zcash onchain, but I choose to get in in an ETF, but then I'm gonna re tokenize and bring it back onchain.

这样做到底有什么价值呢？

What is the the value proposition of this?

实验这个词用得恰到好处，因为我觉得我们还在摸索最高效、最合适的应用场景。

Experiment is the perfect word because I think we're still really finding the highest and best use cases.

随着代币化逐渐成为现实，我们还在不断探索。

We're still finding our way as tokenization becomes a reality.

上周我们提交了两个产品的代币化申请。

Now we filed to tokenize two products last week.

我们实际上申请的是40法案基金。

We actually went for 40 act funds.

它们是比特币和以太坊的备兑看涨期权，这样就能在传统工具中把收益带到链上。

They're Bitcoin and Ethereum covered calls, and that brings on chain the ability to get yield in traditional vehicle.

现在回答你的问题，为什么有人会把代币放进ETF，然后再重新代币化，我觉得用例会继续展现出来。

Now to answer your question on why would someone then take a token, put it into an ETF, and then re tokenize it, I think the use cases are gonna continue to play out.

但我们听到的是，这能带来两全其美的效果。

But what we have heard is that allows for the best of both worlds.

可能，人们可以享受券商账户、税务规划、遗产规划等等。

Potentially, one could get the, you know, brokerage account, the tax planning, succession planning, things like that.

但除此之外，他们还能继续在链上生活，这可能是他们更喜欢的投资方式。

But then in addition to that, they could continue to live on chain, which might be their preferred way to interact with investments.

好的。

Okay.

有道理。

Makes sense.

而且我猜，现在会有一些新的用例，是那些聪明人想出来的，我们会看到各种非对称的、特别有创意的用例。是的。

And and I take it that, you know, there is now going to be some new use cases that, you know, the the wisdom of these people dream up, and we're gonna see all these non skew morphic kind of use cases that are extra creative Yes.

而且一旦我们看到它上链之后，

On top once we see that come on chain.

还有实物交易，我想也是这样的……

The in kind transactions as well, I take it...

而且可能有一些数据能说明这一点。

And and maybe there's some data on this.

我只是好奇。

I'm just curious.

如果ETF和现货资产出现价格偏离，这能帮助缩小价格差距吗？

Does this help kind of close any dislocation in prices if you do see the ETF sort of diverge from the spot asset?

现在有了实物交易，是不是更容易进行套利？

Now with in kind, you can kinda arbitrage that more easily?

实物交易正是授予人信托创建和赎回的典型方式，当……

So in kind exactly is typically how grantor trusts are created and redeemed when...

顺便说一下，这些并不是授予人信托。

And these aren't grantor trusts for context.

当SEC首次批准比特币ETF时，对于允许经纪交易商接触加密货币，存在很多犹豫。

When the SEC first approved Bitcoin ETFs, there was a lot of hesitation around allowing broker dealers to touch crypto.

现在，授权参与者，作为创建和赎回过程中的必要角色，也必须是经纪交易商。

Now authorized participants, are this necessary actor in the creation redemption process, are also required to be broker dealers.

所以我们面临了一个难题。

And so we had a conundrum on our hands.

SEC处理这个问题的方式是说我们只能以现金方式进行。

Now how the SEC dealt with that was saying that we could only do this in cash.

好的。

Okay.

去年夏天，他们改变了方向，那时他们决定，好的。

Last summer, they had a change of course, and that's when they decided, okay.

我们已经感到放心了。

We've gotten comfortable.

我们将允许实物交易，这确实为这类交易打开了大门。

We're going to allow in kind, and it really opened the doors for this type of transaction to be possible.

但是，是的，回答你的问题，申购赎回正是让ETF份额能保持以净值交易的方式。

But, yes, to answer your question, creation redemption is exactly how you're able to keep ETF shares trading at NAV.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们非常兴奋，能把我们之前的一些私募产品带入到申购赎回的双向流动中，真正实现平价交易。

And so we're very excited to be able to bring some of our previously private placement vehicles into the the two way flow of creation redemption to really trade at parity.

这最终有助于资本效率、资本形成，这也是监管机构的职责所在。

And this ultimately helps capital efficiency, capital formation, and and this is a mandate of the regulatory agency.

所以这是合理的。

So it makes sense.

现在我们正朝着这个方向前进。

Now we're going into this direction.

你提到这些产品很多的价值主张是税务规划、遗产规划、继承规划。

You know, you you mentioned that the value proposition of a lot of these vehicles is, you know, tax planning, estate planning, succession planning.

我们的听众对加密货币有一定了解，并且在传统市场有一些经验。

You know, we've got an audience that is moderately crypto native and has, you know, some experience in the traditional markets.

这些人已经积累了不少财富，对吧。

These are people that have, you know, accumulated wealth Yeah.

主要是在加密货币领域。

Primarily in crypto native

通过一些工具。

Vehicles.

所以他们可能对税务规划或遗产规划的概念有大致了解，但你能更深入地讲讲这些工具在税务方面的优势吗？

And so maybe they understand at a high level the idea of tax planning or estate planning, but can you give us a little bit of a deeper dive into the tax or or...

除了直接持有现货资产之外，

The tax benefits of these vehicles beyond

这些工具还能带来哪些税务上的好处？

What someone can get through spot assets?

我觉得

I think the

之所以经常提到税务问题，是因为实物申赎。虽然我不能提供税务建议，但一般来说，大家已经比较认可，如果你把代币放入33法案下的基金或信托，你的成本基础会转移，这不算应税事件。

reason that tax comes up a lot for in kind is because now can't give tax advice, but generally speaking, people have gotten comfortable that if you're putting token into a 33 act grant or trust, your basis transfers, and that's not a taxable event.

所以并不是说你要卖掉资产才能把它放进ETF。

So it's not like you're selling your assets in order to get it into the ETF.

现在一旦它进了ETF，因为它在经纪账户里，也许你有顾问能帮你把它运作起来。

Now once it's in the ETF, because it's in a brokerage account, perhaps you have an adviser who can help you put it to work.

即使你没有顾问，你仍然有围绕这些股票的结构。

Even if you don't, you still have the same kind of structure around those shares.

如果你出了什么事，你可以说，我的账户会归谁？

If something happens to you, you know, you can say, who is my account going to?

这在链上并不像在传统经纪世界里那样普遍存在。

That doesn't really exist on chain as much as it as it does in the traditional broker world.

现在我们看到的第二个好处是，对一些人来说，他们能够把资产运作起来。

Now a second benefit that we're seeing is for some, they're then able to put the assets to work.

有些项目允许这些股票用作保证金和抵押品。

Some programs will allow for these shares to be used as margin and collateral.

所以如果你有闲置的比特币，无法利用起来，你有可能把它放进ETF。

So if you have Bitcoin laying around that you're not able to harness, you could potentially put it into the ETF.

你的理财顾问可能会帮你争取到更优惠的房贷利率或贷款利率，当你把那些放在外面的资产纳入你的整体财务规划时。

Your adviser potentially would be able to give you a better mortgage rate, you know, better loan rates, some things like that when you bring held away assets in scope to your bigger financial picture.

另外，还可以用它作为保证金和抵押品，进一步利用这些资产。

And then additionally, potentially use it for margin and collateral to put it to work further.

明白了。

Got it.

而且你们并不是理财顾问。

And you guys aren't advisors.

你们不属于那个体系，但你们确实创造了这些产品。

You're not part of that complex, but you do create these products

是的。

Yes.

顾问们会推荐这些产品，并让客户把钱投进去。

That advisors would then recommend and deposit into.

你们是怎么和理财顾问合作的？你如何看待这个行业的发展变化？

How do you work with the financial advisors at How have you seen the evolution of that industry?

我们在聊的是……

I mean, we're talking...

我们经常听到人们谈论智能化的资产经理和顾问。

We we hear people talking about, you know, agentic, you know, asset managers and advisors.

你怎么看待财务顾问领域不断变化的格局，以及你自己是如何调整策略来应对的？

How do you see the the evolving landscape of the financial advisor, you know, world, and and how have you evolved your own strategy to to prepare Yeah.

为那个做准备？

For that?

我们本身不是顾问，但我们和他们紧密合作。

So we aren't ourselves advisors, but we work in lockstep with them.

过去几年，说实话，大量的教育一直是关键。

It's a ton of education that's really been the name of the game for the past few years, honestly.

但有趣的是，看着这个演变过程，从我们求着他们跟我们聊聊，他们不接电话，到现在他们……

But it's been funny to watch the evolution go from us being like, will you please have a conversation with us and them not picking up the phone to now them...

他们不停地给我们发邮件，求我们教育他们。

They, you know, inundate us in our emails to please educate me.

请多告诉我一些。

Please tell me more.

我的客户想要这个。

My clients want this.

我怎么才能给他们？

How can I give it to them?

所以看到这个1.80美元，我们真的很高兴。

So that $1.80 has been very nice for us to see.

这确实归根结底是教育的问题。

It really does boil down to education.

至于未来的方向，我觉得他们的终端客户有巨大的需求，尤其是客户越来越年轻。

Now where it's going, I think there's overwhelming demand from their end clients, especially as clients become younger.

随着年轻一代长大，成为他们的客户群，是的。

As the younger generation becomes older and becomes their client base Yeah.

他们开始要求数字资产。

They are asking for digital assets.

我们确实和哈里斯民意调查公司做过一项研究，那是一个关注年轻一代如何与投资互动的智库。

We actually did a study with the Harris Poll, which is a think tank that looks at how the younger generations interact with investments.

而且绝大多数人的初次投资体验都是数字原生的，不管是代币还是某种加密货币资产。

And overwhelmingly, their first experiences are digitally native, whether that's a token or whether that's some sort of crypto asset.

但想想我自己的投资经历，就是登录我的富达账户，买标普500指数基金。

But, you know, if you think about my investment experience, it was logging into my Fidelity account and buying S and P five 100.

但年轻一代的情况就不是这样了，对。

That is not the case for the younger generations Yeah.

所以理财顾问们不得不开始关注这一点。

And advisers are having to pay attention to that.

那这些顾问在金融教育方面现在处于什么阶段呢？

And where are we on this financial education journey for these advisors?

至少他们手头有证据，也听到了客户的需求，比如客户会说，嘿，我想要这些资产。

You know, at least they have the evidence to, you know, reach out and and, you know, they hear the demand from their customers like, hey, I want these assets.

我想要这些产品。

I want these products.

然后他们还得自己去学习这些。他们现在进展到哪一步了？

And then they have to go and educate themselves on these How far along are they?

比如我理解...

Like, you know, I get...

我猜他们应该懂比特币，可能还有以太坊和索拉纳，如果脑子转得过来的话，Hyperliquid 也能理解。

I gotta imagine they understand Bitcoin, maybe ETH and Solana and Hyperliquid if they can wrap their heads around it.

但是，当涉及到我们看到的一些更具创新性的产品时，他们在这条路上走了多远？

But, like, when it comes to some of the more creative vehicles that we're seeing emerge, how far along are they on that journey?

我们还处于非常早期的阶段。

We're still pretty early days.

我们很多对话都围绕比特币和以太坊展开，但他们问的问题非常好。

A lot of our conversations center around Bitcoin and Ethereum, but they ask very good questions.

他们已经开始深入细节了。

They are getting into the nitty gritty.

他们会问关于质押的各种细节，无论是以太坊还是索拉纳。

They're asking about all the nooks and crannies of staking if it's Ethereum or Solana.

他们的严谨程度让我印象深刻，而且很多这样的对话持续了一年多，他们才会让客户参与进来，因为他们真的想确保自己感到放心，并且做好尽职调查。

I've been very impressed by the level of rigor, and a lot of these conversations have persisted for over a year before they will give their clients access, and that's because they really wanna be comfortable and diligence.

现在我们开发了一些教育工具，我觉得对他们帮助很大。

Now we've developed some educational tools that I think have been helping them a lot.

我们在美国各地举办了一个叫“Crypto Connect”的活动。

We've gone around the country in The US doing something called Crypto Connect.

好的。

Okay.

这是一个半天的系列课程，供理财顾问们自我学习。

It's a half day series for advisors to educate themselves.

Grayscale.com上有“The Stack”，你提到的Zac是它的常驻作者。

Grayscale.com has the stack, which Zac, who you mentioned, is a frequent author of.

这些文章篇幅短小，旨在帮助那些不熟悉加密货币的人，甚至包括熟悉的人，理解当下热门话题的要点。

They're really bite sized articles to help people that are not crypto native or even if they are, understand the talking points of whatever the trending topic of the day is.

理财顾问这个领域已经开发了多少？

How how much of the financial adviser landscape has been unlocked?

我想再深入了解一下，有没有什么规定会阻止理财顾问在达到某个关键门槛之前，让客户接触这些产品？

And and I guess just to dig into that a little bit deeper, like, have are there any kind of mandates that prevent financial advisors from exposing their clients to some of these products before they reach, you know, some sort of critical threshold of...

所以你能不能解释一下，一个理财顾问从完全不碰加密货币，到最终决定提供这些产品，中间需要经历什么？

So maybe you can just explain, like, what it takes to get a financial advisor from, you know, non crypto bearing in terms of the product offerings to ultimately, you know, taking the leap in offering those products.

我觉得ETF的熟悉度帮了大忙。

So I think the familiarity of the ETF has been very, very helpful.

他们更愿意投资那些感觉像股票的东西，而不是直接去买代币。

They are much more comfortable investing in something that feels like a stock than going straight into the token.

不过，他们也会关注流动性。

That said, they look at things like liquidity.

他们希望产品有足够的规模。

They wanna see that the the product is sizable.

他们想确保客户需要时能把钱拿出来。

They wanna make sure that their investor can get their money out if they need to.

所以通常来说，如果产品规模不到一亿美元左右，他们一般不会参与。

And so, typically, they're not going to engage unless the product is a $100,000,000 or so.

这大概就是最初的讨论点或切入点，但这些ETF很快就超越了这一点。

That's kind of like the starting talking point or the starting conversation point, but these ETFs have quickly eclipsed that.

所以这已经不是问题了，但他们确实会关注流动性、价差这些方面。

So that hasn't been a problem, but they do look at things like liquidity, spreads.

他们在尽职调查方面非常非常严谨，我其实觉得这挺让人欣慰的。

They are very, very robust in their diligence, and and I've actually found that to be quite refreshing.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

这至少可以说是让人耳目一新，因为你……

Which is, you know, like, it it is, I mean, refreshing to say the least because you...

你有一批新的市场参与者，他们对资产和市场整体非常熟悉，是的。

You've got, you know, a new cohort of market participants that are very familiar with assets and markets in general Yeah.

现在他们把专业知识带进了这个行业。

Now bringing their expertise into this industry.

所以这就像是两个世界的碰撞，思想的融合，最终对每个人都有好处。

And so it is sort of like this, you know, colliding world, melding of the minds, and and ultimately everyone is better off.

你觉得我们在财务顾问这块，已经解锁了多少流动性？

How much of this of this financial advisor landscape do you think we've unlocked when it comes to the amount of liquidity Yeah.

这些客户的钱就在那里，他们就是信任自己的顾问，让顾问去配置。

That's out there, and it's, you know, capital that these clients, they just trust their advisers to go ahead and allocate.

那还有多少资金等着我们去接入呢？

I mean, you know, how how much are we talking that's still out there to be onboarding?

我觉得还有大量的空间。

I think there's a ton left to go.

我们的一些对话才刚刚开始有成果。

So some of our conversations have just started to come to fruition.

我们现在上了几个平台，但也就几个平台。

We're on a couple of platforms now, but, you know, a couple of platforms.

这样的平台有几百个呢？

How many hundreds of them are there?

所以我觉得还有很大的发展空间。

So I think that there is a lot of room to go.

就像我说的，我们很多对话还是围绕比特币和以太坊展开的。一旦你让他们对一种资产感到放心，他们就会开始想，好吧。

Like I said, a lot of our conversations are still centered around Bitcoin and Ethereum So once you get them comfortable with one asset, then they start thinking, okay.

还有更多。

There is more.

让我了解一下。

Let me learn about that.

所以我觉得我们真的还处于非常早期的阶段。

So I think we're very, very early innings there.

说到向他们介绍像Zcash这样的新产品时，

And when it comes to introducing them to a new product like a Zcash

他们是不是……

You know, are they...

我们刚听说过比特币。

We just heard about Bitcoin.

现在又得听Zcash了。

Now we have to hear about Zcash.

比如，什么……

Like, what...

然后，然后，然后，是不是……

You know, and and and are so...

有点惊讶，还是现在……

Somewhat, you know, taken aback, or are they now...

就像你说的，他们现在……

Like you said, they're they're...

他们已经会主动来找你，寻找新产品了。

They've now got the the proactiveness to come to you and in search of new products.

我觉得是双向的。

I think it goes both ways.

你想啊，顾问的职责就是给客户带来价值。

If you think about it, the adviser's role is to bring value to their customers.

所以对于那些对这类资产了解更多的人，他们可能愿意、也有能力、也准备好去探索更多了。

So for those who have gotten more educated about the asset class, then they might be willing and able and ready to go beyond it.

但他们的平台能支持吗？

But will their platform support it?

这需要...

It is...

这需要做大量的尽职调查。

There is a lot of diligence that has to go into that.

但就像我说的，客户也是对话的一部分。

But like I said, clients are also part of the conversation.

他们主导着对话。

They drive the conversation.

所以如果他们在比特币上取得了成功，他们可能会听说Zcash，觉得这个隐私保护是真的。

So if they've had success with Bitcoin, they might be hearing about Zcash thinking this privacy thing is real.

我想参与其中，尤其是现在AI和量子计算也进入了讨论范围。

I wanna get involved there, especially with things like AI and quantum computing entering the conversation.

所以，再说一次，顾问必须倾听客户的意见。

So, again, advisers have to listen to their clients.

这正是Zcash价值主张的重要组成部分。

And that's a big part of the value proposition of Zcash.

我们说过，这是……

We've said that's...

这是对AI监控国家非常自然的反应。

This is a very natural reaction to the AI surveillance state.

这实际上是抗AI的货币，人们非常渴望拥有所有权和主权，他们正是为此而关注Zcash。

This is effectively AI resistant money, and people are very much looking for a source of ownership and sovereignty, and they're looking at Zcash for exactly that.

稍微把视角拉远一点，我很好奇你对整个行业的看法。

Just kinda zooming out here, I'm just, you know, curious as far as how you see the industry.

比如，接下来会有什么新动向？对。

Like, what is coming up next Yeah.

在产品套件方面？

When it comes to the product suite?

有什么可以分享的吗？

Anything that you can share?

然后就是……

And then just...

总的来说。

Broadly.

所以我觉得融合才是关键。

So I think that convergence is the name of the game.

我也经常参加传统金融的会议。

I also spend a lot of time at traditional finance conferences.

我下周其实要去华盛顿特区，参加一个可能是最传统的会议。

I'm actually going to Washington DC next week to go to probably the, you know, most traditional of conferences you could go to.

我敢肯定我们会讨论代币化，对。

And I guarantee we're gonna be talking about tokenization Yeah.

全天候交易，24小时不间断交易。

Twenty four five trading, twenty four seven trading.

所以我觉得传统金融和数字金融的融合会是未来的趋势。

So I think convergence between traditional finance and digital finance is going to be the way of the future.

我觉得代币化会在其中扮演重要角色。

I think tokenization is gonna be an important part in that.

我们最近刚聘请了一位链上资产管理主管，塞斯·福利托，他将负责我们的代币化工作。

We actually just hired a head of Onchain Asset Management, Seth Folito, who's gonna be leading our tokenization efforts.

我们已经申请了两个代币化产品，所以我们已经投入其中了。

We filed for two tokenized products, so we're in it.

就像我说的……

Like I said...

或者像你说的，创新豁免是清晰度未获通过的积极副产品，但它确实为我们创造了一个可以试验的沙盒。

Or like you said, you know, the innovation exemption is a positive byproduct of clarity not getting passed, but it has created the sandbox for us to experiment in.

我觉得这个试验，我们一定会做。

I think that experiment, we shall.

而且我们会看到一些很酷的东西从中涌现出来。

And we'll see some cool things coming out of it.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

而你……

And you...

你一直走在前列。

You've led the way.

灰度在开创这些产品方面一直走在前列，最终也吸引了许多传统资本市场的配置者，他们为这个领域带来了大量的合法性和流动性。

Grayscale has led the way when it comes to pioneering some of these products and ultimately onboarding some of the traditional capital market allocators that have brought a ton of legitimacy into the space and liquidity into the space.

所以，随着我们继续前行，不断推进，这……

And so as we sort of continue to embark and and and, you know, chug along, it's...

我很好奇，你们的北极星是什么？

I'm curious, like, what is the North Star?

是什么将继续驱动你们，并最终保持领先？

What is going to continue to drive you and ultimately continue to stay ahead?

我觉得我对未来所有创新的机会感到兴奋。

I think I'm excited about all of the opportunities to innovate ahead.

即使只是来到Token2049，这里充满了关于机会和我们可以构建的东西的讨论。

Even just being here at token twenty forty nine, there's so much buzz around opportunities, things that we can build.

我们不一定知道哪个会是最高、最好的用例，但我们会找到的。

We don't necessarily know which one is gonna be the highest and best use case, but we're gonna find it.

所以我觉得，不断摸索，找出客户需要什么，然后构建能帮助他们达成目标的东西，这才是关键。

And so I think that tinkering, finding what what do clients need and building things that help them get there, that's really the name of the game.

我们能做出很多很酷的东西，但最终，它得满足某种客户需求。

We can build so many cool things, but ultimately, it needs to fulfill some sort of client needs.

所以我喜欢参加这样的活动，听听大家对什么感兴趣。

So I love being at events like this, hearing what's interesting to people.

总的来说，我们在这里聊了很多关于让那些不太容易获得的资产变得更容易获得的话题，无论是通过代币化，还是通过ETF。

And and broadly speaking, we're having a lot of conversations here about bringing assets that are not as accessible, making them more accessible, whether that's via tokenization, whether that's via an ETF.

这也是一个很突出的主题。

That is another theme that runs strong.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

嗯，我们已经说了好几个月了，我们正处于机构牛市的浪潮中。

Well, we've said for several months now that we are in the throes of an institutional bull market.

感觉我们也正处在一个大规模、广泛的牛市边缘，而且你确实在推动这个机构牛市中发挥了重要作用。

It feels like we're on the precipice of a big, broad bull market as well, And you've certainly helped to steward this institutional bull market.

非常感谢你。谢谢。

So thank you so much Thank you.

感谢你来做客，也感谢你在灰度所做的出色工作。

For coming on and and for all the great work at Grayscale.

谢谢。

Thank you.

很高兴和你交流。

It's great talking to you.

当然。

Absolutely.

我也是。

Likewise.