Rob Krugman：这是迄今为止金融领域最大的突破（2027）

罗布。

Rob.

罗布，把夹克穿上。

Rob the jacket.

谢谢你来到这里。

Thanks for being here.

不错。

Nice.

我今天早上想保持愉快和明亮的心情。

I wanted to be nice and bright this morning.

是的，谢谢你邀请我。

Yes, Thanks for having me.

那个……

The...

有意思。

Interesting.

不过我得纠正你一下。

I will actually correct you though.

现在每天是三千八百亿美元。

$380,000,000,000 a day now.

这就对了。

There we go.

回购方面，我们预计到今年年底会接近一万亿美元。

The repo, and we expect that'll be close to a trillion dollars by the end of the calendar year.

所以，哇。

So Wow.

这个领域势头很猛，进展也很大。

A lot of momentum and movement on that area.

是什么在推动这个增长呢？

What's gonna drive that?

你知道吗？

You know?

我……

I...

我们正在不断引入更多银行加入这个生态系统，它们看到了其中的价值，并开始从隔夜交易转向日内交易。

We're just bringing on more and more banks to the ecosystem that are seeing the value and kind of going from overnight to intraday.

所以……

And so...

而且在这个过程中可以实现的效率提升非常巨大，这很棒。

And there's a huge amount of efficiencies that can be realized through that process, which is great.

另外，关于你提到的不同链的问题，我也想说说。

I also will say kinda your other question about, like, different chains.

我们完全不受限制。

We're completely agnostic.

所以我们会……

So we will be...

几周前我们发布了DLX解决方案，这是我们在回购业务上的扩展，目前已经支持18种不同的区块链。

We announced our DLX solution a few weeks ago, which is an expansion of what we do in repo, and we could support 18 different blockchains already.

那么。

So.

你能不能

Can you

给我们透露一点内幕消息？

give us a little bit of inside baseball?

因为我觉得我们的听众大概了解代币化的供应链，

Because I think our audience understands kind of the tokenization supply chain

对。

Yep.

特别是涉及大宗商品和股票的部分。

As it relates to commodities and equities.

这些东西先被持有，然后被代币化。

These things get held, and then they get tokenized.

我觉得我们对这个还是比较熟悉的。

And I think we're relatively familiar with that.

但回购市场相当专业。

But the repo market is pretty specialized.

你能帮我们理解一下当前回购市场的现状，以及回购的代币化供应链是什么样的吗？

Can you help us understand how the repo market currently exists today and what the tokenization supply chain looks like for a repo?

所以，实际上，回购市场是……

So so really, the repo market is...

你可以这样想，它是银行之间互相提供的隔夜贷款，以确保它们手头有足够的资金来继续运营。

If you think about it, it's it's overnight loans that banks give each other to make sure they have enough on hand to continue operations.

我们做的是，把隔夜贷款拆分成更小的部分。

And what we do with repo is we take what is an overnight loan, and we can break it down to much smaller pieces.

所以实际的贷款可以缩短到更短的时间，而不是按小时计，但没错。

So the actual loan could be in a much smaller number of hours versus hours versus hours, but Yeah.

而不是隔夜。

Versus overnight hours.

这样利息更少，对吧。

Less interest to pay Yeah.

更有效地利用资本，以及做到这一点的能力。

More efficient use of capital, and the ability to do that.

所以当我们考虑其他类型资产的代币化时。

And so as we think about the tokenization of other types of assets.

回购实际上基于国债。

So repo really is based upon treasuries.

代币化将使这一过程更加容易。

Tokenization will make that an easier process.

交易的现金部分将从法币转向稳定币、存款代币和货币市场。

The cash leg of transactions will move from fiat to stablecoins, deposit tokens, and money markets.

但实际上，任何类型的代币化资产都可以用作抵押品。

But really any type of tokenized asset can be used as collateral.

这就是我们在加密货币领域看到的情况，然后将其引入现实世界资产，无论是股票、债券、房地产还是其他类型的产品，都能让这些资产在你不用它们的时候也为你工作。

That's what we've seen kind of in the crypto space, and then bringing that to real world assets, whether it's equities, whether it's bonds, whether it's going to be real estate or other types of products, allows those assets to work for you even when you're not using them.

稳定币和代币化资产有一个特点，我很好奇它到底有多大好处。

There's one feature of stablecoins and tokenized assets that I'm I'm curious how much of a benefit it is.

解释这个有好几种方式，但比如像可编程性这样的词。

There's couple different ways to explain this, but words like programmability.

对。

Yep.

当你们想把现有的回购市场升级成代币化市场时，可编程性有多重要？

How how important is the programmability as you're looking to upgrade from the repo market as it exists today to a tokenized one?

我们还常听到闲置资本这个词。

We also hear about idle capital.

那么，让回购市场变得原子化或可编程，能提高多少效率，或者能节省多少钱？

And and so how much more efficient or how much money can you save by making this repo market atomic or programmable?

该怎么正确看待这个问题？

What is the right way to think about this?

我觉得有几件事。

I I think there's a few things.

我认为可编程性……

I think programmability...

你知道，我想到可编程性时，经常考虑的一个问题是，在一个去中心化的市场里，怎么确保合规的监管规则和义务得到落实？

You know, one of the ways I often go to when I think about programmability is how are you going to ensure proper regulatory rules and obligations in a decentralized market?

这就要靠智能合约了。

And it's gonna be through smart contracts.

也就是说，我们要怎么把这些规则编进资产里，这样不管它们在哪儿交易，在真正成交之前，某些义务或信息要求必须得到满足。

It's gonna be how do we actually program these into the assets so that no matter where they trade, certain obligations or information needs to be ensured before an actual trade can happen?

这会带来巨大的效率提升。

And that'll provide massive efficiencies.

现在想想，有多少人和机构在负责这些事，比如KYC、反洗钱、OFAC制裁名单，还有其他各种要求。

Today, think about all the people and institutions that are responsible for that, whether it's KYC, AML, OFAC, other things.

把这些直接嵌入合约和资产本身，效率会非常高。

Embedding that into the actual contract and the asset itself, very, very efficient.

对。

Yes.

我觉得另一方面是资产怎么为你所用，把可编程性定义到资产里，比如它怎么被借出、能借给谁、在哪里借、借多久。

I think the other the other side of this is how the asset can work for you and defining that programmability into the asset as far as how it can be lent, who it can be lent to, where it can be lent, for what periods of time.

而且这不仅仅局限于抵押贷款。

And it's not just around lending for collateralization.

还涉及到你能用它做什么。

It's also what what can you do with it.

所以，Broadridge，你知道，我们最大的业务之一，我们的治理业务，帮助处理像代理投票和公司行动分配这类事情。

So Broadridge, you know, one of our largest businesses, our governance business, where we help with things like proxy voting and corporate action distributions.

好的。

Okay.

想想看，这怎么能被编码到智能合约中，并且可能……

And think about how that can be codified into a smart contract and could potentially...

你知道，你可以移动，这实际上是一个可以独立销售和独立分配的价值主张，想想还挺令人兴奋的。

You know, you can move and that's actually a value proposition that could be sold independently and distributed independently, which is pretty exciting to think.

是的，Rob。

Yeah, Rob.

我的意思是，听到你这么懂行，而且对这项技术这么热衷，我真的很兴奋，因为我们已经在这里十年了。

I mean, it just gets me so excited to hear you so in the know and just bold up on this technology because we've been here for ten years.

是的。

Yep.

而且每个人一开始都是……

And everyone starts...

你知道，你会去交易，买点比特币，然后……

You know, you get trading, you get some Bitcoin, you...

但在我们这个时代，我们读的是关于比特币标准的书。

But in our era, we were reading books about the Bitcoin standard.

我们读的是关于这项技术的书。

We were reading books about this technology.

我们在深入了解智能合约的每一个细节，理解为什么这项技术如此强大。

We were understanding the nooks and crannies of how smart contracts work, why this technology is so powerful.

对。

Yep.

而在现在这个交易、迷因和投机的时代，我们有点失去了那种精神，但它正在回归。

And we kind of have lost that a bit in this new era of trading and memes and speculation, but it's coming back.

讽刺的是，这种回归来自那些真正理解它的机构投资者。

And ironically, it's coming back from institutional allocators who get it.

所以我想说，我很感激。

And so I just wanna say I appreciate it.

关于罗比刚才说的，我们在昨天的坎顿峰会上听到的是可组合性，但具体来说，是跨不同账本的。

On the note of what kinda what Robbie's saying here, what we heard yesterday at the Canton Summit was composability, but specifically across separate ledgers, let's say.

对。

Yep.

账本可组合性。

Ledger composability.

我们说的是，银行到券商，再到DTCC，再到区块链，再到结算，再到Broadridge的内部账本。

And we're talking, you know, banks into a brokerage, into the DTCC, into blockchains, into the settlement, into the Broadridge internal ledger.

我们说的是所有这些的可组合性。对。

We're talking about the composability of all this Yep.

这是一个重大突破。

As this big breakthrough.

这是什么……

What is this...

比如，这里发生了什么？

Like, what's happening here?

比如，这意味着什么？

Like, what does this mean?

我觉得，你知道，其中一个挑战……

I think, you know, one of the challenges...

而且我刚才也谈到了这一点。

And I just talked about it.

我刚才就在另一个房间的台上。

I was just on stage in the other room.

我认为DeFi社区需要理解Tridentify社区的一个挑战，就是仅仅启动某件事就非常复杂。

One of the challenges that I think the DeFi community needs to understand about the Tridentify community is simply just turning something on is really complicated.

首先，有监管规定。

First of all, there are regulations.

资产被代币化并不意味着它就可以不遵守监管规定。

Just because an asset is tokenized doesn't mean it doesn't actually have to comply with regulations.

那我们怎么把这些资产引入呢？

And so how do we bring those things on?

而且这不只是一个生态系统的问题。

And it's not just it's not just one ecosystem.

有很多不同的事情需要处理。

There's different things that need to happen.

我给你们举一个非常有趣的例子。

I'll give a really interesting example.

想想机构里的账簿和记录。

Think about books and records in an institution.

比如，在Broadridge的基础设施上，我们在北美大约有3亿个账户，基本上都在我们的交易后基础设施上运行。

So Broadridge, on our infrastructure, we have about 300,000,000 accounts in North America that basically run-in our post trade infrastructure.

包括结算、清算、账簿记录和报告。

So settlement clearing, books and records, and reporting.

如果你想想链上活动，很多信息都是透明的，因为它们在链上。

If you think about onchain activity, a lot of that stuff is transparent because it's onchain.

当然，有许可链和无许可链的区别，以及你能看到什么，但你能看到很多信息和数据。

There's obviously permission versus permissionless blockchains and what you can see, but you can see a lot of information and a lot of data.

指望明天每家公司都重建所有依赖这些的下游服务，那根本不可行。

The thought that tomorrow, every single firm is gonna rebuild all the downstream services that walk off of that work off of that, it's just not feasible.

所以，怎么……

So what...

比如，我们正在做的是，对我们那些运行我们基础设施的客户说，我们会让这变得非常简单。

For example, what we're doing is we're saying to our clients that run our infrastructure, we're gonna make this really easy.

这是一个一站式解决方案。

Here's a turnkey solution.

你们将能够接入所有新的交易场所。

You're gonna have connectivity into all the new trading venues.

我们会提供钱包和托管基础设施。

We're gonna provide wallet and custody infrastructure.

你可以选择合格的托管人，或者自己保管资产。

Either you can choose a qualified custodian or you could custody assets yourself.

我们会收集所有这些数据和信息。

And we're gonna take all of that data and information.

我们会把它们整合到现有的账簿和记录中。

We're gonna integrate it into the existing books and records.

哇。

Wow.

这之所以重要，是因为如果不这样做，你基本上就有两个不同的机构在同时运作。

Now the reason that that's so important is if you don't do that, you essentially have two different institutions operating at the same time.

通过整合这些信息，报表、确认书、税务、监管报告以及其他所有必须完成的事项都会自动集成到系统中。

By consolidating that information, statements, confirms, tax, regulatory reporting, all the other things that have to happen are now automatically integrated into the system.

我们拭目以待。

And we'll see.

听着。

Listen.

长期来看，我们会不会达到一个点，代币化资产比传统资产还多，然后我们直接切换，所有东西都用链上？

Long term, could we hit a place where tokenized assets are larger than traditional assets and we flip the switch and we use onchain for every?

有可能。

It could be.

但我觉得，你知道，我们别追求完美。

But I think, you know, let's not strive for the perfect.

对。

No.

我们先把东西推出去，让它跑起来。

Let's let's try to get it out there and get it running.

百分之一。

1%.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

我们现在就在这个阶段。

And that's where we are.

比如，今年我一直在说2027年。

Like, this year, I've been calling 2027.

这是解锁之年。

This is the year of the unlock.

我的意思是，全球范围内，没有一家经纪商不在考虑如何推出钱包和托管基础设施。

And what I mean by that is globally, there is not a broker dealer that is not thinking about how do you roll out wallet and custody infrastructure.

还有随之而来的其他部分，这些都是实现这一目标所必需的。

And then the other pieces that go with that, that's what everyone needs to make this happen.

无论是上市公司、私营公司还是资产管理公司，大家都对资产代币化感兴趣，因为它的价值主张很吸引人。

Whether you're a public company, a private company, an asset manager, everyone's interested in tokenizing assets because of the value proposition.

但如果只有那些能买的人，我不是说只有那些人……

But if the only people who can buy it, I don't mean to dismiss the only...

就是全球7.5亿活跃在加密货币领域的人。

Are the 750,000,000 people globally that are active in crypto.

当然。

Sure.

那太可惜了。

That would be a shame.

通过开放经纪行业和银行业，现在你正在为全球数十亿人解锁这一功能，很可能通过一种他们甚至可能不知道自己在处理代币的体验。

By turning on the brokerage industry and the banking industry, now you're unlocking this for billions of people around the world, likely through an experience that they may not even know that they're actually dealing with tokens.

这只会是他们银行、他们经纪商已经做的事情的延伸。

It's just gonna be an extension of what their bank, what their broker already does.

会有更多产品可用。

There'll be more products available.

这将是无缝的，我认为这是每个人都想要的。

It'll be seamless, which is what I think everyone wants.

你提到回购市场本质上是为了满足资本需求而在银行之间进行的隔夜借贷。

You mentioned that the repo market at its core is this overnight lending between banks in order to facilitate, you know, capital needs.

所以我听你的意思是，银行本身不需要升级他们的基础设施来实现代币化。

And so what I hear you suggesting is that the banks themselves don't need to upgrade their infrastructure for tokenization.

你可以代表他们来做这件事。

You can do that on their behalf.

是这样吗？

Is that correct?

对于使用我们基础设施的银行来说，确实如此。

That for the banks that are on our infrastructure, absolutely.

即使是没有使用我们基础设施的银行，我们也努力通过提供解决方案来让它们更容易接入。

Even for the banks that are not, we're trying to make it easy for them by providing a solution.

比如，我们在美国和加拿大推出了我们的财富管理解决方案。

We announced our our wealth solution, for example, in The US and Canada.

基本上，这个方案提供钱包和托管能力，可以通过我们或者合作伙伴来实现。

And essentially, what that does, it provides wall and custody capabilities either through us or a partner.

它提供交易和流动性的连接，提供整合报告，并且处理我们为这些机构已经做的所有治理活动，比如代理投票、协助公司行动、招股说明书披露以及其他类型的材料。

It provides for connectivity, for trading, and for liquidity, and it provides consolidated reporting, and then handles all the governance activities we already do for these institutions, whether it's proxy, helping to facilitate corporate actions, disclosure around prospectuses, and other types of materials as well.

明白了。

Got it.

那么，在这些银行和像Broadridge这样的基础设施提供商之间，价值是如何流动的呢？

And so between these banks and these infrastructure providers such as Broadridge, how does the value flow?

因为我们之前聊过，而且昨天峰会上也听到了，这是一个每天交易量达13万亿美元的行业。

Because as we talked about and we heard from the summit yesterday, this is a $13,000,000,000,000 daily industry.

据我所知，你们现在每天已经处理3800亿美元的回购交易了。

As far as I understand, you guys are doing $380,000,000,000 of repo every day already.

那……

How...

这大概就是市场的规模，但基于这个，从3800亿到13万亿之间，能产生多少手续费和收入呢？

And that's sort of the size of the market, but how much in in fees and, you know, revenue is generated based on that, you know, somewhere between 380,000,000,000 and 13,000,000,000,000?

规模有多大？

What is the scale?

因为我觉得，随着我们增加不同类型的代币化资产，可以在这些银行之间借贷，

Because I take it that as we add different types of tokenized assets that can be lent out between these banks

对。

Yep.

我的意思是，随着我们增加抵押品的形式，这是一个创造价值的巨大机会。

I mean, this is a massive opportunity to create value as we add forms of collateral.

那你能不能先给我们描绘一下，之前和之后的情况是什么样的？

So maybe you could just paint the picture of the before and the after.

现在这个13万亿美元的行业，能产生多少收入？

How much in revenue is generated from that $13,000,000,000,000 in the industry today?

你觉得对于基础设施提供商来说，这个数字能增长到什么程度？

And where do you think this can get to for the infrastructure providers

比如像Broadridge这样的公司？

such as Broadridge?

关于实际产生的收入，我确实没有一个确切的答案。

So I don't have a good answer on the actual revenue that's generated.

说实话，我也不太确定。

I'm actually not even sure.

不过我可以……

But I can...

我们可以这样来看。

Think about it this way.

所以那13万亿会变成100万亿，再变成150万亿。

So that 13,000,000,000,000 becomes a 100,000,000,000,000, becomes a 150,000,000,000,000.

我不知道具体数字会是多少，因为随着越来越多资产可以用作抵押品。

I don't know what the number is as you have more and more assets that can be used from a collateral perspective.

我们开始的一个领域是美元回购，这可能是全球最常见的。

One of the areas that we're starting is US dollar based repo is probably the most common that you see in the world.

我们已经把它扩展到七国集团，在那里我们实际上可以使用不同的基础国债来促进这种活动。

We've extended that to the g seven where we can actually use different underlying treasuries to facilitate this activity.

但已经有讨论，基本上能不能在货币市场之上做这个？

But there's already conversations around, can you basically do this on top of money markets?

能不能在代币化股票或代币化基金之上做这个？

Can you do this on top of tokenized equities or tokenized funds?

答案是肯定的。

The answer is yes.

所以，你知道，我认为结合像这样的传统方法，你知道，有Morpho，有Vaults，还有其他正在上线的东西，我们会看到这种能力，即使是很短的时间，也能让静止的资产产生收益，这就是这一切的意义所在。

And so, you know, I think the combination of of kind of traditional approaches like that, you know, there's Morpho, there's Vaults, there's other things that are coming online where we're gonna see this kind of the ability to collateralize assets that are sitting still even for a very small period of time to generate yield, that's what this is all about.

我经常跟客户聊的一件事是，传统金融服务行业可能并不完全理解其中的各个环节。

And one of the things I talk a lot to our clients and, you know, a lot of the traditional financial service industry may not understand all the pieces of this.

所以我经常举的一个例子，就是在稳定币和货币市场之间，我把稳定币比作你的支票账户。

And so one of the examples I often use just in the stablecoin versus money markets area is I think about a stablecoin as your checking account.

把货币市场比作你的储蓄账户。

Think about the money market as your savings account.

但再想想，如果能实时来回传递信息呢。

But then think about being able to move information back and forth real time.

这样，当你不用现金的时候，它就能产生收益。

So when you're not using your cash, you're generating yield.

当你要用现金的时候，你可以立刻把它转换回来，完成支付。

When you need to use the cash, you instantaneously convert it back and you facilitate a payment.

对。

Yep.

这就像是个不用多想的事，但……

Like, it's kind of like a no brainer, but

这确实是个不用多想的事。

It is a no brainer.

但现在的情况并不是这样。

And it's really not the case right now.

很简单。

Easy.

今天的情况也不是这样。

It's not the case today.

然后在外汇以及所有相关的事情上也是如此。

And then and in foreign exchange and all the other things that goes with that.

对。

Yep.

我觉得今天晚些时候，Circle 会宣布 ARC。

I think later today, right, Circle's announcing ARC.

对。

Yep.

这是一个非常有趣的功能，可以让你在不同国家之间无缝切换，百分之百没问题。

That's a really interesting capability where you can seamlessly move between potentially different 100%.

积分可以用于不同国家。

Points to different countries.

非常令人兴奋。

Very exciting stuff.

所以，Rob，我，我……

So, Rob, I I...

再次，我真的很欣赏你的博学和热情。

Again, I just love how educated and passionate you are here.

当你想到，比如，最终……

When you think about, like, the end...

不是最终状态，而是Broadridge的2030愿景，你知道，显然你不是所有决策的制定者，但你在这里有一些决策权。

Not the end state, but the 2030 vision of Broadridge, you know, obviously, you're not calling all the shots there, but you're calling some of the shots here.

那会是什么样子呢？

What does that look like?

比如说，Broadridge的……

Like, what is Broadridge's...

你们在链上做的事情，今天和2030年相比，会有什么不同？那个愿景大概是什么样的？

What is the difference from today versus in 2030 about what you guys are doing onchain specifically, and what does that vision kinda look like?

那我先从这个说起。

And so I'll start with this.

我们经常被问到的一个问题是，好吧。

One of the questions we often get is, okay.

你觉得未来几年股票市场的采用率会达到多少？

What percentage of adoption do you see in equities in the next few years?

当然。

Sure.

我觉得这是个陷阱题。

And I'm like, that's a that's a trick question.

我不……

I'm not

这个我不回答。

answering that.

有个笑话是，我们的一位高管说，大概在199%左右。

The the joke is one of our executives says it's somewhere between 199%.

具体是多少我就不告诉你了。

I'm not gonna tell you what it is.

我能告诉你的是，在可预见的未来四五年里，这两套系统需要协同工作。

What I can tell you this is that for a foreseeable future over the next four or five years, these two systems are gonna need to work together.

我能看到的是，如何把数字资产这种新能力引入到传统的资产体系中去。

And what I can see is the introduction is how do you take this kind of new capability of digital assets and feed it into the old traditional assets?

我确实预计到2030年，情况会开始有所转变，传统基础设施可能真的会开始被替代……

I do expect by 2030 that'll start to shift a little bit where the traditional infrastructure may actually start to replay...

被链上基础设施所取代。

Be replaced by the onchain infrastructure.

好的。

Sure.

而且我认为这样做的好处就是效率提升。

And I think the benefit of that is gonna be efficiencies.

比如，在运营内部，如果你能提高效率，那就意味着节省成本。

Like, know, inside operationally, if you can provide efficiencies, that equates to cost savings.

而且那...

And that what...

就是...

It's...

真正让人兴奋的是后台和中台。

That's really the back and the middle office, what gets people excited.

如果你想想前台，让人兴奋的是收益。

If you think about the front office, what gets people excited is yield.

收益是什么？是能接触到更多产品吗？

What's yield and it's access to more products?

所以最让我兴奋的领域之一就是私募和另类投资。

And so one of the areas I get most excited about are private and alts.

如果你想想我们现在投资这些产品的方式，那真的很复杂。

If you think about the way we invest in these products today, it's complicated.

你得填各种申请表。

You have to fill out applications.

你得去合适的财富管理公司，或者直接去找底层的另类投资经理。

You have to go to the appropriate wealth firm or go directly to the underlying alternative investment manager.

我们考虑把这些资产代币化，它们就开始像……

We think about the tokenization of those assets, they start to trade almost like a...

像股票证券一样交易。

Like an equity security.

参与起来容易多了。

Much easier to participate.

另外，我们还能降低门槛，让……

The other thing is we can take the entry point where...

想想现在谁在投资私募股权基金或风投基金。

Think about who invests in a a PE fund or a VC fund today.

他们现在要写一张一百万美元的支票，而且这笔钱要放七年。

They're writing a check for a million dollars that they can leave there for seven years.

即使我们只考虑合格投资者，那些资产在一百万到一千五百万美元之间的人，他们也不会写一张一百万美元的支票，然后让这笔钱闲置七年。

Even if we just stick with accredited investors, those in that million to $15,000,000 range, they're not writing a million dollar check that's gonna sit on the sidelines for seven years.

所以如果我们能把投资门槛降到几千美元，让他们也能获得这种投资机会，

So if we can reduce that entry point down to a few thousand dollars where they can get that exposure

完全同意。

100%.

巨大的机会。

Huge opportunity.

然后我觉得真正有意思的是，在资产管理端和财富管理端，当他们为客户制定策略时，这些策略现在可以更加个性化，真正满足投资者的具体需求，而且可以包含以前无法纳入的资产类型。

And then I think where it's gonna be really intriguing is both on the asset manager and the wealth side, as they develop strategies for clients, those strategies can now actually be a lot more personalized to the specific needs of the undivestor, and it can include asset types that they never been able to include before.

太棒了。

Love it.

你知道，就像安迪说的，我们……

You know, like like Andy said, we...

我们做这行差不多十年了。

We've been at this for just about a decade.

我们发现，我们聊的话题已经从技术转向了金融。

And we found that the conversations that we're having have shifted from the technological ones to more the finance ones.

说到底，这是金融科技，但我们已经从技术转向了金融，我觉得这是因为金融成了制约因素。

Ultimately, this is fintech, but we've shifted from technology more to finance, and I think that's because finance has become the limiting factor.

所以，我想重新梳理一下刚才的问题，你觉得制约因素是什么？

And so just to kind of reframe the last question, what do you think are the limiting factors?

因为现在感觉技术已经不是瓶颈了。

Because it no longer feels like the technology is the limiting factor.

是监管吗？

Is it regulatory?

你是说，如果我们能降低这些门槛，增加准入机会，要实现这些目标，我们需要解决什么问题？

You're saying if we can kind of bring down these barriers and increase access, what do we need to solve to accomplish those things?

所以，我……

So I...

你知道吗，这挺有意思的。

You know, it's interesting.

大型金融公司通常会被两件事中的一件推动。

Big financial firms are moved by usually one of two things.

一是新进入这个领域的初创公司，它们做事方式完全不同。

One is related to a new start up that's entered the space that does something completely differently.

而且我……

And I...

我现在要暴露年龄了。

I'm gonna age myself now.

我回想九十年代，当时交易开始上线，我们从每笔150美元的交易降到10美元，每家银行和券商都创建了在线部门，最终变成了经纪部门。

I think back to the nineties when trading went online, and we went from a $150 trades to $10 trades, and every single bank and broker created an online division, which eventually became the brokerage division.

所以这算是其中一件事。

So that's kind of one thing.

另一件事就是监管变化。

The other is really around regulatory change.

而且我确实觉得有些公司原本希望《清晰法案》昨天能通过，是的。

And I do think there are certain firms that were hoping for the Clarity Act to be passed yesterday Yeah.

作为推动这一进程的催化剂。

As a driver to facilitate this.

不过我觉得即使没有这个，我们也看到了一些动向。

I think absent of that, though, there's certain activities that we see.

DTCC、纳斯达克在美国拥抱这个，伦敦证券交易所、德意志交易所和全球其他交易所也在跟进，现在有一种错失恐惧症在蔓延，大家都怕自己落后。

The DTCC, NASDAQ, embracing this in The US and London Stock Exchange and Deutsche Borse and other exchanges around the world, there's a FOMO that's now building where people are scared they're gonna be left behind.

所以起点就变成了：我需要做什么才能参与这个生态系统，为了我自己，也为了我的客户？

And so where that starts becomes, what do I need to do to be able to participate in the ecosystem for me and for my customers?

你想想看，这要从钱包和托管开始。

And if you think about it, it starts with wallets and custody.

现在，你没法在账户里持有数字资产。

Today, you cannot hold digital assets in an account.

所以你需要一个钱包和托管解决方案。

So you need a wallet and custody solution.

而且我觉得随着这些开始落地，公司就能开始向客户提供这些产品，覆盖他们业务的各个领域。

And I think as that starts to come, then firms can start offering these products to their clients across all different areas of their business.

所以我们想想，你知道，我们主要关注资本市场，也就是证券市场这一块。

So we think about, you know, we're really focused on capital markets, of the the securities market side of things.

但再看看银行业这边。

But think about the banking side of things.

明天，当我的银行让我能通过钱包持有资产时，我就能几乎零成本地即时给海外的亲戚汇款。

Tomorrow, when my bank enables me to hold assets via wallet, I can send money to relatives overseas instantaneously at almost no cost.

我还能在这些资产上产生收益。

I can generate yield on those particular assets.

这些钱就放在我的支票账户里，这是我以前从来做不到的。

It's just sitting in my checking account in a ways that I've never been able to do before.

这一切都会到来，但首先要实现这个大的突破。

That's all coming, but it starts with this big unlock.

而且我觉得好消息是，传统金融服务界并不只是...

And I think the good news is the traditional financial services community is not just...

他们不只是……

They're not just...

我会……

I would...

他们不再害怕了。

They're not scared anymore.

他们就像在说，我们怎么拥抱这个，怎么自己认识到这些效率呢？

They're like, how do we embrace this, and how do we recognize the efficiencies ourselves?

这正是我想问的，Rob，因为这个问题很棒，回答也很棒，这让我们开始思考谁会赢，谁会输。

That's what I was gonna get to, Rob, because this question was great and great answer because it's just kind of like getting us to who's gonna win and who's gonna lose here.

或者，结果会是什么样子？

Or, like, what is the outcome gonna look like?

我们经常问这个问题，我真的很想听听你的看法，如果这个代币化的论点是对的。

And we we ask this question a lot, and I'm really curious to your take is if this tokenization thesis is correct.

我们……

We...

你知道，Broadridge在回购市场上每天能达到10亿美元。

You know, Broadridge gets to 1,000,000,000 a day in repo.

对。

Yep.

然后是50亿美元。

Then 5,000,000,000.

你知道吗？

You know?

万亿。

Trillion.

万亿。

Trillion.

抱歉。

Sorry.

万亿。

Trillion.

如果我没那么说，你可别冲我喊。

Don't yell at me if I didn't say that.

这个数字有点不一样。

A little bit of a different number there.

每天五万亿。

5,000,000,000,000 a day.

你知道，代币化股票能达到数千亿，对吧，等等等等，稳定币能达到数万亿。

You know, tokenized equities get to hundreds of billions, right, etcetera, etcetera, stablecoins in the trillions.

谁会赢？

Who wins?

然后自然而然地，谁不一定会赢那么多？

And then by default, who doesn't necessarily win as much?

听我说。

Listen.

毫无疑问，会有一些中介机构正在评估，并且面临生存危机。

There is no doubt that there's gonna be intermediaries that are evaluating and have an existential crisis on their hand.

他们在思考未来如何定位自己。

They're thinking about how do they position themselves going forward.

在我看来，要么创新颠覆，要么被颠覆，我觉得很多公司已经开始意识到这一点了。

You know, in in my head, you either innovate and disrupt or you be disrupted, and I think a lot of firms are starting to recognize that.

我确实……

I I do...

哪里……

Where...

如果你想想效率会从哪里来，那一定是通过后台服务运营的自动化来实现的。

If you think about where efficiencies are gonna come from, it's gonna be through automation in the way back office services operate.

所以这个市场会演变，会发生变化。

And so that market's gonna evolve, and it's gonna change.

当然。

Sure.

我觉得谁会从中胜出呢？

I think who wins out of this?

最终受益的是消费者。

It's gonna be the consumer.

机构投资者也会受益，但归根结底，消费者将能够做到以前从未做到的事情。

It's also gonna be institutional investors, but at the end of the day, the consumer is going to be able to do things they've never been able to do before.

我给你们举两个例子。

And I'll just give you two examples.

作为美国居民，你们是美国籍吗？

As a US resident, you guys are US?

是的。

Yes.

不是。

No.

好的。

Okay.

投资外国公司真的很难。

It's really hard to invest in foreign companies.

那里有一些上市的美国存托凭证。

There's a few ADRs that are listed there.

前几天我听到L seg要把前100家公司以代币化形式推出，这样我们就能买了，我特别兴奋。

I get really excited the other day when I heard that L seg is going to actually make the top 100 companies available in a tokenized form, which means we can buy them.

所以我觉得能这样获得全球市场的敞口，真的非常令人激动。

And so I think the ability to kinda get that exposure globally, really, really exciting.

我觉得更令人兴奋的可能是新兴市场的解锁。

I think what may be even more exciting though is the unlocking of emerging markets.

几个月前我在一个会议上讲过话。

I I spoke at a conference a few months back.

那是在华盛顿特区。

It's in DC.

当时是关于……

It was around kind of...

那是一个贸易会议。

It was a trade conference.