Se Yong Park：为什么万亿美元机遇在于社交（底层）

你刚才说什么？

What did you say?

怎么了？

What's up?

你好吗？

How are you?

我

I

想起来了，你和我搭档安迪一起在帝国大厦的录音室里。

think, you joined my, my cohost Andy here in our studio in the Empire State.

是的。

We did.

如果我没记错的话，那次我不在场。

If I remember correctly, I wasn't there for that one.

所以那

So That

那是在罗宾汉改版之前的事了。

was before Robin Hood changed today.

那是

That was

在很多事情

before a lot of

很多事情都变了，兄弟。

A lot of stuff has changed, man.

最后一次是什么时候？我是说，那肯定是六到八周前的事了。

What what what's the last I mean, it must have been six, eight weeks ago.

最近几个月过得怎么样？

What's the last couple months been like?

天哪，简直疯狂。

Man, it's been insane.

对我们来说，这是一个巨大的增长期。

It's been a tremendous growth period for us.

我们很幸运，你知道，通过许多不同的机会、许多不同的链上线，包括Arc在内，我们一直在持续成长，这真的是一种福气。

We've had the fortune of just, you know, continue to grow through many different occurrences, many different chain launches, and in Arc included, and it's a blessing.

我们有机会把加密货币，希望还有其他资产，带给现实世界和大量消费者，是的，能处于这样的位置，我们非常感激。

We get to to bring crypto and hopefully other assets to the real world and bunch of consumers and, yeah, very fortunate to be in this situation.

所以我们一直在讨论的一件事是，市场环境确实不同了，但更重要的是，大家的热情和能量也不一样了。

So one of the things that we've been talking about is that the market conditions are different, sure, but also the energy is different.

我们怎么形容呢，有人称之为动物精神，也有人叫它别的名字。

And the way that we put that, people call it animal spirits, they call it a lot of things.

我们想说的是，我们又开始享受这个过程了。

We're saying we're having fun again.

这不再是那种冷漠无感的状态了。

This is no longer apathy.

我们又在链上

We're having

找到乐趣了。

fun on chain again.

FOMO在其中占了很大一部分。

FOMO is a big part of that.

把乐趣带回战场意味着什么？

What does it mean to bring fun back to the trenches?

这是一种极大的荣幸。

It's an incredible privilege.

因为作为交易者，我自己在熊市里真的没什么可做的。

Because as a as a trader myself, it's something where in the bear markets, there's really nothing to do.

我觉得我们的想法是，总有一个地方有牛市。

And I think our thought was there's always a bull market somewhere.

所以我们有机会把这种体验带给人们。

So we get the opportunity to bring that to people.

我觉得现在市场正在回暖，所以更有趣了。

I think markets are picking up now, so it's even more fun.

而且赢的感觉很好。

And winning is fun.

我觉得，当人们赚到钱，找到好的仓位，找到好的叙事时，这对他们来说是一种快乐，对平台上的其他人来说也是如此。

I think, like, when people make money, when they find good positions, when they find good narratives, it's something that's joyful now for them, for for everybody else in the platform as well.

所以我觉得这太棒了，希望我们能继续保持上升趋势。

So I think it's it's amazing, and, hopefully, we can keep the uptrend going.

是的，兄弟。

Yeah, man.

我的意思是，你看。

I mean, look.

我们现在已经看到了像傻瓜蜡笔食者以及Point Farm Cap这样的账户，实现了八位数的未实现盈亏。

We have seen now eight figure unrealized PnLs from the likes of dumb Crayon Eater as well as, as well as Point Farm Cap.

我的意思是，这些家伙在pawn上和其他资产上都有大量仓位。

I mean, these guys are out there with massive positions in pawns, massive positions in other assets.

社交交易这个概念，人们对它的认知度已经大幅提高了。

Social trading as a concept, the awareness of the concept has drastically increased.

我想这里的问题是，接下来会发生什么？

I guess the question here is, what next?

我觉得我们现在正处于这轮牛市的初期阶段。

Like, I think we're in the beginning phase of this bull market.

所以我的看法是，这只会变得更加疯狂和庞大。

So my take is that this just gets even crazier and bigger.

我相信你大概也同意，但感觉这个概念已经被市场验证了。

I'm sure you're probably somewhat agree, but it feels like the concept has been validated by the market.

FOMO接下来会有什么动作？

What's next for FOMO?

你接下来有什么打算？

What's next for you?

你打算怎么把它提升到下一个层次？

How do you take this to the next level?

其实从第一天起，我们的目标就是成为金融领域的社会图谱。

I mean, since day one, our goal has been to try to become the social graph of finance.

这意味着我们必须在每个资产类别中都占据主导地位，包括链上资产、主流币、衍生品、预测市场、股票、RWA、收益产品，以及任何真正出现的领域。

So that means that we need to be dominant in every asset category, on chain, majors, perks, prediction markets, stocks, RWAs, yield, anything that really occurs.

对我们来说，关键是怎么迈出下一步。

So for us, it's going to be how do we take the step the next step?

怎么从现有的资产类别跳到更成熟的资产，以及更广泛的资产类别。

How do we take the jump from whatever assets are available today to slightly more mature assets and to other asset classes broadly?

这真的让人非常兴奋。

So that's something that's incredibly exciting.

我觉得这有点像那个万亿美元的问题——你能不能真正把这个社交图谱扩展到其他领域，不管是不同的资产类别还是不同的用户群体。

I think it's kinda like the trillion dollar question of do you get to this place where you can actually translate this social graph to others, whether it's different asset classes, different consumers.

说实话，我对此真的非常期待。

So really excited about it, honestly.

我觉得在接下来的六到十二个月里，我们会看到更多代币化股票的交易量上链。

I think in the next six to twelve months, we'll see a lot more tokenized equity volume come on chain.

你会开始看到股票交易量在链上总交易量中占据越来越大的比例。

I think you'll start to start to see, you know, stock volume start to materially become a a bigger percentage of just on chain market volume.

而这只是开始，希望这会是一个漫长而富有成效的过渡，最终实现万物上链。

And I think that's just a start of, hopefully, a very long and fruitful transition to what is going to be on chain for everything.

是的，兄弟。

Yeah, man.

我的意思是，我看到了这个愿景。

I mean, I I see the vision.

我的意思是，一切都从模因币开始。

I mean, it starts with memes.

从模因币开始，然后扩展到股票，突然之间，你就上线了Arc Chain，他们会有大量的代币化股票。

It starts with memes credits to stocks, and then all of a sudden, you're now live on Arc Chain, and they are gonna have a whole swath of tokenized equities.

显然，Robinhood Chain也有。

Obviously, Robinhood Chain does as well.

而且，刷着人们的FOMO资料，看到一堆模因币，真是太好笑了。

And it's just so funny, like, scrolling down people's FOMO profiles and seeing swaths of Meme Coins.

然后你往下刷，看到那些零碎的东西。

And you scroll down to, the dust.

代币化的AMC。

Tokenized AMC.

代币化的英伟达。

Tokenized NVIDIA.

然后你会想，哇。

And you're like, wow.

这可能真的不仅仅是加密货币资产的交易平台，而是更大的东西。

This could really be something a lot bigger than just a trading platform for crypto assets.

在Arc上发布可能让很多人感到意外。

It may have caught people by surprise to launch on Arc.

Arc被Circle Foundation视为机构主导的品牌。

Arc is known by the Circle Foundation as institutional dominated brand.

它给人一种非常专业的感觉。

It's very professional vibe.

但正如Robinhood所证明的，这也带来了很多机会。

But with that, as proven by Robinhood, there also comes a lot of opportunity.

你对Arc的发布有什么看法？

What's your take on the Arc launch?

FOMO在这里有什么特别的？

What is unique for FOMO here?

为什么要推出它？

Why launch it?

对我们来说，我们一直在评估哪些是最令人兴奋的新链，以及用户会喜欢交易、使用和体验哪些东西。

I mean, for us, we're we're constantly evaluating what are the most exciting chains that are to launch and what are the things that users are gonna be excited to trade on, to use, to experience.

而且我们很早就明显看出，Arc就是其中之一。

And I think it was very evident from us very early on that Arc was one of those chains.

你知道，这周市场有点疲态，链上资产涨涨跌跌，一些势头也流失了一些。

Where, you know, there's fatigue in the markets a little bit this week with some of the on chain assets going up and down and seeing some of the momentum go out the window a little bit.

但总的来说，新事物是好的。

But I think all in all, like new things are good.

竞争是好事。

Competition is great.

我觉得Arc有一个非常棒的团队，他们真的很想充分利用他们的链。

I think that, you know, Arc has a really good team that really wants to capitalize on on on its chain.

而且我觉得这会以很多不同的形式出现。

And I think that comes in a lot of different form factors.

我觉得你会尝试很多不同的东西，我个人很期待看到AI和AI叙事在一条以机构为重点的链上会是什么样子。

I think you try a lot of different things, and I'm personally excited to see what, you know, AI and the AI narrative might look like on on a chain that's, you know, institutional focus.

而且感觉Arc确实把自己定位成了AI商业和代理科技经济领域的领导者之一，尤其是在AI和加密货币交汇的领域。

And does feel like Arc has sort of defined itself as one of the leaders in AI commerce, agen tech economy, as AI and crypto intersect.

那么，我有一个问题，我不是黑子，只是随便说说。

Say, the question that I have and I'm not a hater, just for what it's worth.

没关系。

No worries.

但我很好奇。

But I'm I'm curious

他们能应付那些黑子。

They can handle the haters.

他们不能。

They can't

说吧。

say it.

其实就一个词。

It's really just one word.

我很好奇你怎么看待用户流失。

I'm curious how you think about churn.

因为我觉得你肯定在这方面想了很多。

Because I feel like you've probably thought a lot about this.

感觉这确实是个很相关的问题，而且从你进入这个行业的方式来看，我能看出你是在做长期布局。

It feels like this is something very relevant, and you're I can tell by the way that you've gone and approached this industry, you're building for the long term.

但是，你知道，用户流失对这些用户来说是个很严重的问题。

But, you know, churn is a very serious thing as it pertains to these users.

你是怎么考虑这个问题的，又是怎么保持用户长期活跃的？

How do you think about this and and maintain user longevity?

我觉得这对我们来说有很多方面都很重要，而用户流失也是这个讨论的一部分。

I think this is a number of things that are very important to us, and I think churn is part of this conversation.

但是，你知道，教育、资产类别的多样化，以及用户通过社交图谱互相教学的经验。

But, you know, education, diversification of asset classes, experience with, you know, users teaching others with the social graph.

而且我觉得对我们来说最激动人心的是，我们大约有250万终身用户。

And I think that the the exciting thing for us is like, we have about 2,500,000 lifetime users.

今天，可能其中有60万会使用这个应用。

Today, might see 600,000 of them today on the app.

在任何一个月里，我们大约能看到75%的用户每月访问一次。

And in any given month, we're seeing about 75% of users roughly visit the app on a monthly basis.

所以这意味着我们有重新激活、重新参与、学习并变得更强的机会。

So what that means is the opportunity reactivate, to reengage, to learn, to come back stronger.

而且有一个核心原则对大家来说很重要，那就是我们不拥有任何一层。

And one of the core principles that is important for people out there to know is we don't own any of the layers.

我们不拥有Launchpad。

We don't own the Launchpad.

我们不拥有AMM。

We don't own the AMM.

我们并不拥有那些真正能带来更多交易量或更多用户亏损的底层工具。

We don't own any of the vehicles that actually contribute to getting money with more volume or more user losses.

所以如果你从这个角度看，我们最大的动力其实是希望你能长期使用，希望你回来尝试不同的产品，最终成长为我们认为在社交图谱中非常有价值的用户。

So if you think about it that way, our best incentive here is actually for you to have longevity as a user, for you to come back, try different products, and ultimately mature into what we think could be very valuable users in social graph itself.

为什么这是优点而不是缺点呢？

Why why is that a feature and not a bug?

我认为这是优点，因为它从根本上让激励机制保持一致。对我们来说，我们考虑的是如何确保用户的长期参与，不仅仅是他们第一天交易模因币或资产类别，而是如何引导他们看向更上游。

I think that's a feature because it it fundamentally aligns incentives here where, you know, for us, we're thinking how do you how do you make sure that the longevity of the user is is is something that you can see through not just like their first day trading memes or trading asset classes, but how do you get them to look upstream?

如何开始交易代币化股票？

How do you start trading tokenized equities?

如何开始考虑收益？

How do you start thinking about yield?

如何开始思考那些对你来说作为金融投机工具感兴趣的东西？

How do you start thinking about, you know, whatever it is is interesting to you as a financial speculation instrument?

我认为这是很多人没有尝试去突破的。每个人都认定自己只擅长某一件事情。

And I think that that's something that not a lot of people are trying to break Everybody has decided there's this one thing that I'm very good at.

这就是我赚钱的那一个东西。

This is the one thing that makes me money.

所以我打算留在这里，因为我怕失去立足之地。

So I'm gonna stay here because I'm I'm scared to lose my footing.

但我觉得对我们来说，如果我们不能实现这个跨越，那对行业来说是不可持续的，对我们来说也没什么意思。

But I think for us, if we fail to make this jump, it's not something that is sustainable for the industry, and it's not something that's interesting to us.

我想在这个话题上，从品牌角度、用户角度，把应用从一个彩票变成投资组合。

I guess on this note of kinda, like, turning the the app from a place from, like, a brand perspective, from a a user perspective of, a lottery ticket into a portfolio.

每当我邀请朋友加入时，让我不断回到FOMO的是推荐奖励。

Just so when I've onboarded friends and what keeps bringing me back to FOMO is the referrals.

我一直在邀请朋友，他们用这个来减免一部分交易费。

I just keep onboarding friends, and they they use this a cut of trading fees.

这有点，你知道，很基础的东西，但确实有效。

It's kind of you know, it's very basic stuff here, but it it's what kinda works.

所以我试着让他们不要只想着今天能买到什么热门币，或者今天能做什么交易能让资产翻十倍，而是要明白这是一个多周、多月、多年的长期游戏。

And so I'm trying to get them to to not think about what runner they can get today or what trade they can hit today that's gonna 10 x their portfolio, but that it's a multi week, multi month, years long game.

对很多人来说，这种转变很难理解，尤其是当你习惯了体育博彩，或者基本上把这些东西当成彩票来想的时候。

And that's a a transition for a lot of people that is hard to rationalize with when you're used to sports gambling or, effectively thinking about these things like lottery tickets.

你怎么才能把你的信息、个人品牌和整个生态系统定位在长期发展上，而不是追求这种短期的快感呢？

How can how can you position your messaging, your personal brand, your entire ecosystem around longevity versus these kind of quick hits?

我觉得我们可以通过让那些顶级交易者或顶级教育者分享更多观点、来回交流、进行双向对话来实现这一点。

I think we do that by enabling people who are, let's say, the top traders or the top educators to be able to share more of their opinions, to go back and forth, to engage in a two way conversation.

对。

Yep.

目前，你只能通过写一篇分析来和别人互动，别人可以看你的分析、点赞、分享，但并没有真正有意义的讨论发生。

Right now, the only way you can engage with somebody is you write a thesis and other people can view your thesis, can like your thesis, they can share it, but there's no meaningful discourse happening.

那下一步是什么呢？

So what is the next step there?

嗯，你需要让他们能够进行对话。

Well you need to allow them to have conversations.

如果我是新用户，看到某个单位PCS涨了1000万美元，而那只值一美元，我会想知道为什么。

If I'm a new user and I see unit unit PCS is up $10,000,000 and that's only a single dollar, I want to know why.

我想知道，你到底特别看好什么？

I wanna understand, like, what is the thing you're so bullish on?

你预期会有什么结果？

What is the outcome you're expecting?

我希望得到回应，然后边做边学。

And I'd love a response and to just, learn by doing.

因为我觉得关于交易和投资，一个根本性的误解是，人们觉得我得去读六本书。

Because I think one of the fundamental misconceptions about trading and investing is that people think I need to go read six books.

我得去读沃伦·巴菲特的通讯。

I need to go read Warren Buffett's newsletter.

我得去搞清楚霍华德·马克斯在他那本最重要的书里说了什么。

I need to go figure out what Howard Marks said in his, you know, most important thing.

但那样想完全不对。

And that's all the wrong way to think about it.

因为如果你想学做某件事，比如打篮球，你不会去看勒布朗·詹姆斯的录像，或者听那些讲怎么投篮的书。

Because if you're trying to learn how to do something, let's say basketball, you don't go watch, you know, LeBron James tapes and listen to, like, books on how to take a bath how to take a jump shot.

你直接去做，然后你会发现自己做得特别差。

You go and do the thing, and you're gonna be really bad.

场面会很难看。

It's gonna be really ugly.

过程会非常痛苦。

It's gonna be very painful.

但到最后，你会比那些光说不做、不行动的人领先一大截。

But at the end of the day, you're gonna be so much further ahead than anybody else who is doing the other thing, is like not actioning.

跟我们聊聊那个重新激活的过程吧，我敢肯定很多人都在吃亏，尤其是那些第一次因为害怕错过而投资或交易的人。

Talk to us about that reactivation journey because I'm sure people are taking their lumps, especially if they're investing or trading on FOMO for the first time.

也许他们确实被折腾得够呛，你刚才那个观点说得特别好。

Maybe they do get churned, you made a I've really good point

有几个点被彻底击穿了。

blown out on a couple points.

这就是重新激活的过程，即使过程很难看、很痛苦，你仍然有机会重新站起来。

Which is the reactivation journey, and you have the opportunity even after it's ugly and it's painful to come back.

跟我们说说，用户尝试这个平台时，心理上会怎么变化？不是试一次，也不是两次，而是第三次，最后坚持下来。

Tell us how the psychology of a user may adapt as they try the platform, not once, not twice, but a third time and ultimately stick.

我觉得，这里有很多类比，但就像你骑自行车，摔倒了，爬起来，再骑，再摔。

I think it's, you know, there's a lot of analogies here, but like you get on a bicycle, you fall, you get up, you get on a bicycle, you fall.

也许你三个月不试了，回来之后，你会从一个完全不同的角度看问题。

Maybe you don't try for three months, you come back, you see from a very different perspective.

而且说实话，无论是投资、交易，还是任何有涨有跌的事情，你都需要一点运气。

And I think honestly with investing, with trading, with just about anything that has upside or downside, you need to be somewhat lucky.

你需要有顺风，需要有对的人在身边，而我觉得我们的工作就是确保我们能控制我们能控制的事情。

You need to have favorable tailwinds, you need to have the right people around you, and I think that our job is to make sure that we can control the things we can control.

我们怎么更好地教育你？

How do we educate you more?

我们怎么给你更多工具？

How do we give you more tooling?

我们怎么让你更好地和别人沟通？

How do we make you communicate better with other people?

我们怎么打造一个为你量身定制的社交图谱，只关注你的兴趣，而不是那些跟你无关的东西？

How do we create a social graph that is tailored for you and your interest and not all of this other stuff that might not be pertinent to you?

所以，一个很酷的点是，我们已经上线大约一年半了，现在开始看到我们的留存曲线在往上走。

So one of the cool things is we've now been live for about a year and a half, and we're starting to see our retention graph smile.

这说法挺有意思的，因为你真的能看到曲线这样回升，对。

And that's a funny term because like you literally start to see it come back up this way Yeah.

就是，第四个月、第五个月、第六个月一直在下降，但到了第七、第八、第九个月，很多都跟市场的大环境有关。

Where, you know, month four, month five, month six goes down, goes down, goes down, but month seven, month eight, month nine, and a lot of those market tailwind dependent.

我们从Robinhood、Coinbase这些大型交易应用上学到了很多教训，你可以想尽办法留住用户，但最好的办法其实是把产品做得更好。

We've learned a lot of lessons from, know, Robinhood, Coinbase, a lot of these like really big trading apps where you can do everything in the world to try to retain users, but really the best thing to do is build a better product.

这样当他们回来的时候，已经准备好了，能更好地利用这个产品。

So when they come back, they're ready and they can actually utilize it better.

是的，兄弟。

Yeah, man.

我是说，你们团队，我知道你们经常听到这句话，真的是最擅长接收产品反馈并快速落地的团队之一。

I mean, you guys I and I know that you hear this all the time, are one of the best teams at receiving product feedback and implementing.

我会继续推动NFT的。

I'm gonna keep pushing for NFTs.

我觉得FOMO上线NFT真的能把NFT牛市带回来，尤其是考虑到我们现在所处的牛市周期阶段。

I think FOMO listing NFTs would quite literally bring the NFT bull market back, especially given where I think we are in the bull cycle.

这个就交给你的工程团队、产品团队，还有你这位CEO了。

I will leave that to your engineering team and to your product team and to you, the CEO.

天哪，我得问一下。

Man, I gotta ask, man.

我们算是这个应用的早期用户。

We're early to this app.

已经上线一年半了。

It's a year and a half in.

人们在这个平台上交易着数百万美元。

People are trading millions of dollars on on this thing.

除了少数几个钱包应用之外，还没有哪个加密应用能取得超级巨大的成功，而那些钱包应用因为各种原因没有发币，比如你们赚了很多钱，进行回购，或者团队想实现退出，但还是以正确的方式做事。

There has been no crypto app, that has been super, super successful outside of a handful of wallets that have not launched a token for a variety of reasons, whether it be you guys are making a ton of money, buybacks, whether it be the team wants to, hit an exit if you will, but still do things the right way.

这里有很多激励因素。

There's a lot of incentives.

你有风险投资人，但显然不是那些传统的加密风险投资人，他们可能期待早期代币或早期退出。

You have venture capitalists, but obviously not the traditional crypto venture capitalists who might be expecting an early token or an early exit.

我感觉你是为了赢才玩这个游戏的，而且我知道你不是在考虑两三年的事情。

I get the feeling you're in this game to win, and I know that you're not thinking about this in a two or three year game.

我感觉你不是在找床底下那十万块钱。

I get the feeling that you're not exactly looking for a 100 k under your mattress.

比如，你在Shane上已经做得不错了。

Like, you've done well on Shane.

你交易过。

You've traded.

但在这里你能告诉我们什么呢？

But just what can you tell us here?

我的意思是，你能告诉我们FOMO未来的计划，以及社区的情况，还有你如何看待奖励那些日复一日为你利润做出贡献的早期用户呢？

I mean, what what can you tell us about the future plans of FOMO and the community and how you think about rewarding these adopters who have contributed to your bottom line day in and day out?

我觉得最好的理解方式是，怎么在微观层面而不是宏观层面去做这件事。

I think the best way to think about this is like, how do you do this at a micro level as opposed to a macro level?

我觉得大家都想着最后的大奖，空投什么的。

I think everybody thinks about big grand prize at the end, airdrop this.

我想赚个六位数、七位数、八位数。

I wanna make six, seven, 8 figures.

但实际上，我们产品里做的每一件事，都是为了激励和奖励那些为社交图谱提供价值的人。

But really, like, everything that we do in our product is meant to incentivize and reward the people who provide value to the social graph.

所以我们大概一个月前推出了创作者奖。

So we launched Creator Awards about a month ago.

对。

Yep.

一个月内，可能还不到一个月，就三个星期，我们已经发放了大约一千一百万美元。

In one month, maybe not even a month, in three weeks, we've done about $11,000,000 in payouts.

这还不包括另外六百万的推荐奖励。

That's on top of another 6,000,000 in referrals.

所以我们是在把钱分给那些通过拉新、写教育内容、提前发现新东西、做这些我们认为有助于健康社交图谱行为的人。

So we're trying to give away money to people who are providing value by onboarding people, by writing educational content, by discovering things early, by doing all these things that we think contribute to a very healthy social graph behavior.

所以很容易去想，好吧，最后的大奖是什么？

So it's very easy to think, alright, what is a really big prize at the end?

但我其实觉得，沿途的小奖励才是真正能让人保持开心、有安全感、顺畅，并且真心愿意为我们这个活跃且不断成长的社交图谱做贡献的东西。

But I actually think like a very small prize is along the journey is gonna be the thing that actually keeps people very happy, secure, you know, flow, and really willing to contribute to what we think is a very, you know, active and cultivating growing social graph.

说实话，

I can't lie.

我每天都会上这个应用，拿到推荐奖励，然后我就一直把它投到一个代币上，具体名字就不说了，因为今天是个正经节目。

I say, I come I go in the app every day, and I get my my payout on the referral, and I just keep allocating till a single token that's not gonna be named because it's professional show here today.

我就是很喜欢。

And I just love it.

我每天都来。

I just come on it every single day.

我就想，哦，谢谢Se。

I'm like, oh, thanks, Se.

谢谢，Se。

Thanks, Se.

跟我们说说，构建一个社交图谱需要什么？

Tell tell us what it takes to build a social graph.

比如，你从哪些地方获得了灵感？

Like, what are some of the things that you've taken inspiration from?

因为我觉得，人们推出一个链或加密应用时，会看其他成功的加密应用或区块链。

Because I take it, you know, people launch a chain or a crypto app and they look at other successful crypto apps or other successful blockchains.

你推出一个社交图谱，你会看一些最成功、最多产的社交网络。

You launch a social graph, you look at some of the most, you know, successful and prolific social networks out there

Facebook、Instagram、TikTok、WhatsApp，这些是你灵感的来源吗？还是说你在学习其他行业的东西？

Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, WhatsApp, are those the kinds of applications that you take inspiration from, or is there some other industry segment that you're learning?

我觉得之前所有的巨头，无论是成功的还是失败的社交媒体平台，都为我们对社交的思考铺平了道路。

I think all of the the previous giants, both successful and failed social media platforms, have paved the way for how we think about social.

所以我觉得，我们获取灵感的最大方式，就是看谁经历了多个时代还依然屹立不倒。

So I think my my biggest or our biggest way to grab inspiration is from like who is the one that has done it through multiple eras.

所以Facebook就是最好的例子，他们从发明社交图谱开始。

So Facebook is the prime example of that where they went from social graph invention.

就是说，你连接你认识的人，重点是个人，是你的人际关系，然后他们又主导了下一个时代，也就是Instagram，那是一个兴趣图谱，不再关注这个人是不是你的朋友，而是更关注内容是什么。

Of like, you connect to people you know, it's about the person, it's about your relationship, and then they also dominate the next era of their Instagram, which is an interest graph which is it's no longer about is this person your friend, but it's more about what is the content.

所以现在是内容先于人，这是从社交媒体1.0到2.0的一个巨大转变。

So now the thing precedes the person, and that was an incredible shift in social media one to social media two.

而现在，在我们看来，社交媒体3.0会是下一个大事件，你知道，在AI普及化的世界里，内容很容易产生，走红很容易，通过生成内容或媒体来积累粉丝也很容易。

And now social media three in our minds is gonna be the very next thing, which you know, in a world of AI commoditization, content is easy, it's very easy to go viral, it's very easy to like build a following by doing things that are related to generation of, you know, content or media.

那么什么是真实的呢？

So what is real?

嗯，风险是真实的，投机是真实的。

Well risk is real, speculation is real.

而且我最近有一次很有意思的对话，就是你想一下社交媒体的心理，很多都是反馈循环。

And one of the interesting conversations I had recently was like, you think about social media psychology, and a lot of it is feedback loops.

多巴胺反馈循环，就是我发一条推文，得到点赞，我知道这不错，然后我再发。

Dopamine feedback loops of I put out a tweet, I get likes, I learn that it's good, and I do it again.

照片也是一样。

Same with photos.

对。

Yep.

但FOMO和这些平台的核心区别在于，在Twitter上，如果我发一条很火的推文，我得去猜它为什么火，为什么好，这很主观。

But the core difference with FOMO and any of these platforms is on Twitter, if I go post a banger tweet, I have to try to guess, and it's very subjective of why this went viral or why it's good.

在FOMO上，你火是因为你赚了很多钱，这是客观的。

On FOMO, you go viral because you made a lot of money, and that's objective.

市值上涨。

Market cap goes up.

你赚钱了。

You make money.

你知道，你不卖，它就涨。

You know, you don't sell and it goes up.

它让你赚钱。

It makes you make money.

所以我觉得，社交媒体史上第一个客观的反馈循环，这非常非常强大。

So I think having the first ever objective feedback loop ever in social media is very, very powerful.

我喜欢这个。

I like it.

而且，说实话，Facebook 确实是所有后来社交媒体平台的灵感来源。

And, yeah, Facebook is honestly the inspiration for all the social media platforms that have occurred.

顺便说一句，就这一点我想问一个问题，Robbie。

Just to say, just wanna ask one thing on that on that note, Robbie.

我知道你刚才说得很快。

Know that you fired away.

过去一个半月我们看到很多大交易员，他们有大的 X 账号，不管是不是，把未实现的盈亏拉到了天上。

It what we saw the last month and a half say was a lot of these, you know, big traders that have large x accounts, whether a non or not, run up an unrealized PnL to the moon.

然后我看到了一个 Raspberry Suite，我觉得他们跟你们有关联或者是合作伙伴。

And and then I saw a Raspberry Suite who's, I think, affiliated with you guys or a partner.

节目很棒。

Great show.

他太搞笑了。

He's hilarious.

然后他就说，哎呀。

And he's like, damn.

就像，我，我早该卖的。

Like, I I should have sold.

就像，我，我，我赚了那么多。

Like, I I I was up so much.

我有我的规则。

I had my rules.

Flood总是告诉我，要一直卖，要一直卖。

Flood always told me always be selling, always be selling.

但我觉得他，你知道，这是公开的，而且

But because I think he he was like, know, it was public, and

所以我不太清楚

so I didn't really know

该怎么办。

what to do.

我不想抛售。

I didn't wanna dump it.

我不知道。

I didn't know.

那么，公开持仓涨了那么多，又不想卖，因为不想被人看成，你懂的，

And so what is the ramifications of the public nature of being up a gazillion and being like, I don't wanna sell because I don't wanna be seen as like, you know, the, you know,

你懂的，

you know,

周末或者不想坑别人，这有什么后果呢？

weekends or I I don't wanna dump on people.

你觉得，公开持仓涨了很多，会有什么后果？

Like, what are the ramifications of being up a ton and being public in your mind?

我觉得做事有对的方法，也有错的方法。

I think there's a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things.

正确的做法就是遵循你自己的原则和规则，并且以一种不会伤害到别人的方式去做。

The right way is you follow your own book, you follow your own rules, and you do it in a way where, you know, people are not hurt by your actions.

但我觉得这件事可能会受到很多人的批评。

But I think that this is something that is gonna be widely criticized by a lot of people maybe.

不过我更愿意这样想：当你在做正确的事情，并且做到最高水平时，你总会同时遇到好的和坏的。

But I like to think of this as, like, when you're doing something right and you're doing at the highest level, you have both good and bad.

就拿勒布朗·詹姆斯来说吧。

So think about LeBron James.

他有黑粉。

He has haters.

也有粉丝。

He has fans.

但黑粉的声音最大。

But the haters are the loudest.

那些给你带来最多麻烦的人，往往是从负面角度来攻击你的，因为这样更容易吸引关注。

The people are that are gonna give you the most issues are the ones who are coming at it from a negative angle because it's better engagement.

但我觉得，当我们超越这种，比如，交易圈里的那种回音室效应，就是只有CT上的人或者小圈子里的人，走向世界的时候，会有越来越多的意见。

But I think that as we transcend this, like, trading eco eco echo chamber of, like, just people on CT or people in small groups to, the world, there's gonna be more and more opinions.

总会有人觉得你做错了。

There's always gonna be somebody out there that thinks you did the wrong thing.

当然。

Sure.

对错、盈亏，不管怎样。

Right, wrong, profit, loss, no matter what.

所以这很大程度上就像，你知道，当你第一次成为名人或者运动员时，你会明白怎么把事情做对。

So a lot of this is like, you know, when you become a celebrity for the first time or an athlete for the first time, you have an understanding of how do I do things the right way?

我该怎么展现自己？

How do I portray myself?

我怎么做才能不把每个意见都考虑进去，而只考虑那些重要的？

How do I do things in a way that doesn't take every opinion into account, but just the ones that matter?

我想对顶级交易员说同样的话，你会有黑子的。

And I wanna say the same thing from top traders where you're gonna have haters.

就算你一切都按规矩来，还是会有人不喜欢你做的事。

You could do everything by the book, and people will still dislike things that you do.

所以做事要心存感激，维护好自己的名声，最终也要能帮到别人。

So do it in a way that's grateful, that preserves your reputation, and that ultimately helps others.

说得好，Se。

I love it, Se.

谢谢你抽时间，兄弟。

Thanks for your time, man.

我觉得我们差不多该结束了，Rob。

I think we're about wrapped here, Rob.

我还有最后一个问题，有意思的是，根据你的回答，我和Andy会走向完全不同的方向。

I got one last one, and it's so funny how, you know, based on your response, Andy and I go two completely diverse directions.

但一直都是这样。

But that's always the case.

我本来想问的是，因为你知道，在我们这个所谓的智能体链条上，看起来它正在成形。

I I I was gonna ask because, you know, on our this is sort of the agentic chain as it seems like it's coming to be.

我猜，你会在Arc上也有这种代理式的FOMO体验吧。

And I take it, you're gonna have this agentic flavor of FOMO on Arc.

其实你已经回答了我的问题，我本来想问的是，为代理构建社交图谱有什么不同？

And you sort of answered my question already, I was gonna ask you what is different about building a social graph for agents?

但是，我

But I

觉得没什么区别。

take it there is no difference.

你已经定义了在FOMO上走红所需的前提条件。

You already defined the prerequisite for what it takes to go viral on FOMO.

那就是赚钱。

It takes making money.

这是客观的。

It's objective.

所以只要你的代理在运行并赚钱，在FOMO上人类社交中走红的东西，同样也会在代理之间走红。

And so as long as your agent is going and making money, the same thing that goes viral on FOMO socially with humans is the same thing that goes virally among agents.

这太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

完全同意。

100%.

我觉得归根结底，盈亏和风险回报比是最客观的指标之一。

I think that at the end of the day, the PnL and the risk reward is one of the most objective metrics you can have.

不管你是20岁、50岁、80岁，还是1000岁，或者是个智能体，或者其他什么，我觉得这个主观指标在这个我们想称之为投机图时代的新图景中都会成立。

And whether you are 20, whether you're fifty, eighty, whether you're 1,000 or an agent or whatever it is, I think that this subjective metric that'll stand true in this new graph that we wanna call, like, the speculation graph era.

是的，我很期待看到事情从这里如何发展。

And, yeah, I'm quite excited to see how things, advance from here.

非常感谢，兄弟。

Thanks so much, man.

谢了，伙计。

Thanks, buddy.

不客气。

My pleasure.

祝你好运，兄弟。

Best of luck, man.

干杯。

Cheers.

是的，兄弟。

Yeah, man.

很快再见面。

See you again soon.