Seth Ginns 与 Anthony Pecore：为何流动资产在代币化超级周期中胜出（全面解析）

机构对投资模因币其实没那么热情。

Institutions aren't that excited about investing in meme coins.

他们更感兴趣的是在新兴的长期增长行业里，尽早投资那些真正的企业。

They're excited about investing in real businesses early in their life cycle in a new secular growth industry.

我是Robbie，欢迎收看The Rollup。

My name is Robbie, and you're watching The Rollup.

Rollup。

Rollup.

今天，我想请大家订阅、评论、点赞，并支持我们的频道。

And today, I'm asking you to please subscribe, comment, like, and support our channel.

我们会采访数字资产、数字金融和代币化领域里最优秀、最聪明的一些人。

We interview some of the best and brightest minds in digital assets, digital finance, and tokenization.

我们做这些就是为了你们。

We are doing this for you.

所以请放松坐好，享受节目，非常感谢大家的支持。

So please sit back, relax, enjoy the show, and thank you so much for all your support.

我们回来了，10月7日，DAS亚洲，现在我们和富兰克林加密团队直播连线。

And we're back October 7, DAS Asia, and we're live with the Franklin Crypto team.

今天很高兴能和安东尼和赛斯聊聊。

Excited to chat with Anthony and Seth today.

我们会讨论关键主题，你们在市场上的观察，也许还有一些富兰克林加密在行业中的实战故事。

We're gonna talk key themes, what you guys are seeing in the market, maybe some war stories of, Franklin Crypto's experience in the industry.

我觉得最重要的收获是，看看周围，机构都在这里，而你们从一开始就引领了潮流……

I think the main takeaway, if you just look around the room, I mean, the institutions are here, and you guys have led the way since...

自从你们开始以来，你们开创了很多工作，现在机构进入这个领域时都在参考这些。

I mean, since you guys have gotten started, you've pioneered a lot of the work that institutions have now looked to as they've entered the space.

所以，欢迎来到我们的节目。

And so welcome to the show.

很高兴你们能来。

It's a pleasure to have you guys.

也许我们可以从你们目前关注的重点开始聊起。

Maybe we can just start with what you guys are focused on.

今天你在数字资产领域看到的最令人兴奋的是什么？你大部分时间都在忙些什么？

What is the most exciting aspect of what you see in digital assets today and where you're spending the most time?

Seth，我们待会儿再请Tony说说。

Seth, maybe we'll we'll we'll get to Tony.

我觉得，目前对我们来说最令人兴奋的是，我们看到越来越多的机构投资者对这个领域表现出兴趣。

I I mean, look, I think the the most exciting thing for us right now is the the fact that we're seeing broader and broader sets of institutional allocators show interest in this space.

在流动市场方面，我们看到收入增长非常强劲。

We're we're seeing, you know, on the liquid market side, we're seeing really good revenue growth.

我们看到代币的价值捕获，估值倍数也合理。

We're seeing value capture in tokens, reasonable multiples.

这很有吸引力。

And that resonates.

这看起来就像股票市场，真的很令人兴奋。

That looks like equities, which is really exciting.

人们想要基本面投资机会。

People want fundamental opportunities.

机构对投资模因币并不太感兴趣。

Institutions aren't that excited about investing in meme coins.

他们更感兴趣的是在新兴的长期增长行业中，投资那些处于生命周期早期的真实企业，而这现在正逐渐成为一个可投资的主题。

They're excited about investing in real businesses early in their life cycle in a new secular growth industry, and that's really coming together as an investable theme right now.

所以我们看到这种趋势引起了共鸣，这真的很令人兴奋。

So we're we're seeing that resonate, which is really exciting.

我们喜欢说我们正处于这轮代币化超级周期之中，是的。

And we we like to say we're in the midst of this tokenization super cycle Oh, yeah.

这正在推动很多增长。

Which is fueling a lot of that growth.

托尼，你最近最兴奋的是什么？

Tony, what are you most excited about these days?

嗯，我们有点回归基本面了。

Well, we're we're sort of going back to basics.

富兰克林以本杰明·富兰克林而闻名。

So Franklin famous famous for Benji.

就是代币化货币市场基金。

So the tokenized money market fund.

对。

Yep.

概念很简单。

Very simple concept.

我们因此出了名。

We made our name.

它……

It...

对富兰克林邓普顿来说真的很有趣，一家有八十年……

It's it's really fun for Franklin Templeton, eighty year...

将近八十年历史的公司，竟然在加密货币领域有街头信誉。

Nearly eighty year old company to have street cred

在加密货币领域。

In crypto.

而且它是通过……

And it was through...

最初是作为代币化货币市场基金的一个实验开始的。

Was started off as an experiment in tokenizing a money market fund.

那个基金从2021年开始就一直运行得很顺利。

That fund has been live and working flawlessly since 2021.

人们现在……

People are...

机构现在开始把它看作各种有趣事物的优质抵押品。

Institutions are now starting to see that as good collateral for all sorts of interesting things.

所有这些都将在区块链上结算和交易，涉及很多不同的协议。

And all of this is gonna be settled and traded on the blockchain, lots of different protocols.

但正是这种行为推动了使用量，推动了关键绩效指标，然后转化为收入，再转化为可投资资产，回到流动代币领域。

But it's that sort of behavior which is driving usage, which is driving KPIs, which then turn into revenue, which then turn into investable assets back into the liquid the liquid token space.

而这最终也是我认为我们正在走向的方向。

And and that is ultimately where I think we're headed.

这个代币化超级周期，我上周去了CyBOS，那里有一些大型机构里的数字资产团队在讨论，说我们正走在一条通往虚无的代币化道路上。但现在我觉得他们开始意识到，这最终会让整个金融世界更资本高效、更高效、更可编程，并且释放大量闲置资本。

This tokenization super cycle, I was at CyBOS last week and there was some talk from some of these Digital Asset teams within these bigger institutions around, oh, we're on a tokenization path to nowhere, And now I think they're starting to realize that this is ultimately making the entire financial world more capital efficient, more productive, more programmable, and it's unlocking tons of idle capital.

好的。

Alright.

所以这个代币化超级周期，从把这些东西代币化开始，但不止于此。

And so this this tokenization super cycle, it starts with getting these things tokenized, but it doesn't stop there.

然后它们流入很多协议、很多链上应用，重新评估那些TVL、那些AUM，以及整个可寻址市场，使其高得多。

Then they flow into a lot of the protocols, lot of the on chain applications, and re rate those TVLs, re rate those AUMs and that entire addressable market so much higher.

这就是我认为最近市场上看到的，很多相同的借贷设施、这些交易所，这些东西不仅仅适用于加密原生资产。

That's what I think we've seen in the market as of recently is that, hey, a lot of the same lending facilities, these exchanges, these things are not just for crypto native assets.

它们适用于资产。

They are for assets.

它们适用于一般的金融资产，这是一个大得多的可寻址市场，而且它正在扩大整个蛋糕。

They're for financial assets in general, and this is so much larger of an addressable market, and and and it's growing the pie in general.

问题在于...

The question that ever...

这个问题最后总是归结为：谁会是最大的受益者？

That always comes back to is who are gonna be the biggest beneficiaries?

会有赢家和输家，有人站在有利的一边，有人站在不利的一边。

There's gonna be winners and losers who are on sides and off sides.

你们觉得，在这轮代币化超级周期里，最大的赢家会是谁？

Who do you guys think are going to be the biggest winners of the tokenization super cycle?

好吧，我想说的关键点始终是：谁能够抓住价值？

Well, I'll just say the the watchword always is who's gonna capture the value?

显然，这项技术正在创造价值。

So there's clearly value being created by this technology.

谁会抓住这些价值呢？

Who's gonna capture it?

赛斯，你觉得谁会抓住这些价值？

Seth, who's gonna capture it?

嗯，这确实很有意思。

Well, so so it's interesting.

大家对私人投资工具的代币化非常兴奋。

There's a lot of excitement about tokenizing private investment instruments.

所以我们……

So we...

我们经历了一波对IPO前代币化股权的兴奋浪潮。

We've had this wave of excitement about pre IPO tokenized equities.

我其实持相反观点。

I'll actually take the other side of that.

当你考虑可寻址市场时，我认为那些已经享有流动性的资产

When you think about the addressable market, I think assets that already benefit from liquidity

将从全天候流动性中获得最大的好处。

Are going to see the biggest benefit from twenty four seven liquidity.

然后当你再想想……

And then when you think about...

那么，那是什么呢？

So so what is that?

那就是股票。

That's equities.

那……

That...

那是国债。

That's treasuries.

所以我觉得……

So I I think...

这有点颠覆了传统观念，但是……

And that that turns kind of the conventional wisdom on its head a little bit, but...

所以这是第一点。

So so that's number one.

我认为股票会是最大的受益者。

I think equities will be a huge beneficiary.

我经常听到的反对意见是，但是周末没有流动性，比如……

Now the pushback that I often get is, well, but there's no liquidity over the weekend for, like...

就算是加密资产，周末流动性也会消失。

Even in crypto assets, liquidity goes away on the weekends.

对，是这样，除非周末发生了特别重要的事件，那时候流动性马上就会进来。

Like, well, yes, except when there's a really important event that happens over the weekend, and then liquidity comes right in.

所以你看，比如伊朗战争期间油价的情况，当周末发生重大事件时，流动性会找到进入市场的路径，人们也能调整自己的仓位。

So if you look at, like, what happened with oil around the Iran war, like, when you have something happen over the weekend that's meaningful, liquidity find its finds its way into the market, and people are able to to adjust their position.

所以这是第一点。

So that's number one.

我认为股票会是最大的受益者。

I think equities will be a a huge beneficiary.

但再想想，通过代币化你能做什么，可组合性，创造新工具，对吧。

But then when you think about what you can do with tokenization, the composability, creating new instruments Mhmm.

有很多事情，用传统市场基础设施真的很难做到。

There are a lot of things that were just really hard to do with traditional market infrastructure.

但现在，当你面对的是一个精简的基础设施栈，只是代币在区块链轨道上交易。

But now when you're dealing with a thin infrastructure stack where it's just the the token trading on blockchain rails

你可以开始做一些非常有创意的事情。

You can start doing really creative things.

而且Pendle已经向我们展示了一些在代币化世界里处理收益的非常有创意的做法。

And and Pendle has shown us some really creative things that you can do with with yield in in the tokenized world.

你会开始看到很多有趣的东西进入股票市场，这些都与分割和重组利润流有关，

You're gonna start seeing a lot of interesting things come into equities that tie into slicing and dicing profit streams and

还有收益和各种动态，以及将它们重新组合起来。

And yield and all types of dynamics and and recombining them.

这真的很令人兴奋，因为我们正在见证这个做大蛋糕的时刻。

That is really exciting because we are seeing this grow the pie moment.

感觉将会有一个全新的……

Feels like there's going to be a whole new...

会有很多新的资产类别被代币化，上链，扩大这些应用的可及市场。

There's gonna be so many new asset classes that are tokenized, brought on chain, increase the the the addressable market for these applications.

但是还有……

But then there's...

你说得完全对。

You're absolutely right.

所有这些令人兴奋的、非拟物化的东西，我们得等它们真正落地才能看到。

All these exciting non skeuomorphic things that we can't really see until they play out.

所以Benji在当时是非常创新的，现在我们正在解锁一个全新范式可能的样子。

And so Benji was innovative, extremely innovative for its time, and now we're unlocking what a new paradigm could look like.

那么，当你在富兰克林邓普顿这样的机构内部思考，再放到更广泛的机构层面，他们是不是开始考虑能创造哪些金融产品了？

And so when you're thinking, you know, inside of Franklin Templeton as an institution, but then more broadly about institutions in general, are they are they starting to think about some of these financial products that they can create?

他们是怎么创新的？

How are they being innovative?

我觉得流动性市场是一回事，但他们是怎么考虑用代币化来构建新产品的呢？当然。

I I take it, you know, the liquid markets are one thing, but how are they thinking about building new products with tokenized Sure.

载体？

Vehicles?

我们还在路上呢。

We're still we're still on the journey.

随着金融业通过代币化和协议轨道升级，嗯。

As finance is being upgraded with tokenization and the protocol rails Mhmm.

我们还在建设的过程中……

We're still in the midst of building...

有时候你会用到“流动性层”这个词。

Sometimes you use the word the liquidity layer.

它将支持全天候交易以及所有这些交易背后的抵押，让事情能够在周末有序地杠杆和解套。

That is gonna help support the twenty four seven trading and the collateralization behind all these trades, allowing for things to be levered and unwound over the weekend in an orderly way.

所有这些又都归入流动性层。

All of this again goes into the liquidity layer.

一旦有了这个，你就可以开始在其上构建应用了。

Once you have that, then you can start to build applications on top of that.

它开始变得更加面向消费者。

It starts to become more consumer facing.

那里……

There...

结构化金融的机构会一直存在。

There'll always be institute of structured finance.

它已经存在很长时间了。

It's been around for a very long time.

所以你可能说，电子表格长期以来是金融领域最伟大的革命。

So you might say spreadsheets, you know, were the greatest revolution in finance for a long time.

嗯，这又是一场革命。

Well, this is another revolution.

但我们才刚刚开始这段旅程。

But we are just at the beginning of the journey.

所以未来会有什么产品，我们拭目以待。

So the the products that will come, we'll find out.

托尼，跟我们讲讲那些实战经历吧。

And and, Tony, give us a sense of the war stories.

比如Benji已经存在很久了。

Like, you know, you've had Benji around for a long time.

当时房间里的气氛怎么样？

What was the feeling in the room?

你最初推出这个的时候，大家是怎么聊的？有没有人露出奇怪的表情？

What were the conversations like when you first rolled this Was there some, like, odd looks?

比如，这是干嘛用的？

Like, what is that for?

我们为什么要做

Why are we doing

这个？

this?

奇怪的表情当然有。

Of odd looks.

那这些态度后来是怎么变化的？

And and and how have those changed?

奇怪的表情多了去了。

Plenty of odd looks.

我们一开始是……

We started the...

所以，再说一次，富兰克林已经存在了75年以上，你不可能……

So, again, Franklin's been around for seventy five plus years, and you you don't stick...

你不可能不经历几次自我革新还能活这么久。

You don't live that long without reinventing yourself a couple of times.

富兰克林是一家受严格控制的上市公司，但本质上是由家族长期持有……

Franklin is a closely controlled public company, but, you know, essentially a family, you know, family owned with long...

有着长远的眼光。

With a long vision.

所以我们能做这些实验。

So we can do these experiments.

在领导层以及从珍妮·约翰逊开始自上而下的支持、兴趣和好奇心的推动下，我们把这个当作一个探索可能性的实验来启动。

And with, you know, with the support, interest, and curiosity of of leadership and all the way down with Jenny Johnson, We started this just as an experiment of what could be.

你看，数字化的问题……

I mean, look, digital ask...

数字账本技术确实可以颠覆资产管理行业。

The digital digital ledger technology can disrupt asset management.

这一点我们心里很清楚。

So that is not lost on us.

我们的职责就是走在前面，确保能用这项技术来帮助我们的客户。

And it's our job to stay in front of that and make sure we can use this technology to to help our clients.

所以，没问题。

So fine.

我们做到了。

We did.

而且我们是在与美国证券交易委员会（SEC）协商合作的过程中完成的。

And we did this in in in consultation and with, you know, working with the SEC.

Ben Benji 是……

Ben Benji is...

我们的货币基金。

Our money funds.

货币基金当然是要受监管的。

Money funds are regulated, of course.

所以我们受到的监管非常严格。

So we are very regulated.

我们不得不和监管机构合作。

We had to work with the regulators.

我觉得我们所有人都得在跟监管机构的沟通中出力，但我们做到了。

I think we all had to help help in our conversations with regulators, but we did it.

我们最终拿出一个非常扎实的项目和产品，基金的持有记录都在链上。

And we came up with a rock solid project, and product where the ownership of of the funds are on chain.

完全在链上。

Just purely on chain.

没有第二套账本。

There's no secondary book of records.

所以最后一切顺利，但过程确实……

So it all worked in the end, but it was...

当时确实有一些风险。

There was some risk

做这件事的时候。

doing it.

那现在还算是个实验吗？

And is it still an experiment?

我觉得不算了。

I don't think so.

对。

No.

它已经证明了自己。

It's proven itself.

有……

There's...

嗯，那个……

Well, the

那个……

the the...

我们很多竞争对手都想做类似的项目，或者正在启动类似的项目。

Many many of our competitors wanna have similar projects or starting similar projects.

代币化货币市场基金正在成为许多资产管理公司的标配。

Tokenized money market funds are becoming table stakes for a lot of asset managers at

到了这个阶段。

this point.

所以当我们思考这个演变时，感觉你们是先行者，也许我们称之为机构FOMO，因为现在似乎每个人都在争相进入，想要在这个市场的某个部分占据主导地位。

And and so as we think about the evolution, it feels like you guys kicked off maybe this institutional FOMO is something that we're calling it because now it seems as if everyone is now racing to get in and claim some dominion over a part of this market.

所以，Seth，我觉得你有一些关键主题，比如流动代币的叙事，以及我们需要注意的事情，但我也很好奇，从机构的角度来看，关键主题是什么？

And so, Seth, I I I think you've got some key themes as far as, you know, some liquid token narratives and things that we want to pay attention to, but also I'm curious from the institutional perspective, what are the key themes?

如果机构还没有进入市场，他们会如何进入？

How will institutions enter the market if they haven't already?

还有哪些尚未被占领的空白领域？

And what is some of that that green space that is still up for grabs?

这挺有意思的。

So it's interesting.

先从你开始吧。

Let's start with you.

你提到了拟物化和非拟物化。

You brought up skeuomorphic and non skeuomorphic.

拟物化显然和我们现在的情况相符。

So skeuomorphic obviously matches what we have today.

非拟物化则是那些新出现的东西，来自……

Non skeuomorphic is kind of the new things that come out of the...

这些基础元素。

These primitives.

所以从我们现在的情况说起，我们已经谈到了收入增长，基本面看起来非常好。

So starting with what we have today, we we already talked about the fact that top line growth, so fundamentals look fantastic.

顺便说一句，这些业务非常赚钱，资本效率也非常高。

By the way, these businesses are incredibly profitable, incredibly capital efficient.

所以利润直接落到账本上，然后用于回购。

So drops to the bottom line, goes into buybacks.

我们看到大家对这类基本面故事的兴趣很大。

We're we're seeing a lot of interest in these fundamental stories.

所以那……

So that...

那完全就是拟物化的典型。

That's like squarely skeuomorphic.

当我想到一些将从这里开始演变出来的东西时……

When I think about some of the things that are going to start to evolve out of this...

我来自股票市场。

So I come from the equities world.

我在2020年推出流动性加密基金之前，做了十八年的股票投资者。

I I was an equities investor for eighteen years before launching a liquid crypto fund in 2020.

我觉得股票市场里那种分析师覆盖特定板块的结构，我们离那一步也不远了。

I I think the the the structure that we have in the equities world where you have analysts that cover particular sectors, I think we're not too far away.

可能再过一年，或者两年，就会有专门负责医疗保健的分析师，他必须懂医疗保健。

Maybe it's one year, maybe it's two years from having a health care analyst who has to know health care.

可能是生物科技。

Maybe it's biotech.

也可能是医疗服务，但必须对这个行业了如指掌。对。

Maybe it's health care services, but has to know that business inside and out Mhmm.

同时，他也必须对加密货币有深入的了解。

And then also has to have the the crypto understanding inside and out as well.

这种组合会成为关键的差异化优势。

And that combination will be a key differentiator.

我们会有专门负责医疗保健的人，专门负责非必需消费品的人，专门负责AI的人，但这种垂直专业化。对。

And we'll have someone who focuses on health care, someone who focuses on consumer discretionary, someone who focuses on AI, but that vertical specialization Mhmm.

这……

It it...

到目前为止，流动性基金都理所当然地认为，了解加密货币的动态是投资中最重要的因素。

So far, liquid funds have taken it for granted that knowing what's happening in crypto is by far the most important element for your investment.

我觉得说到收入增长，关键要看终端市场的情况，以及那些用加密货币轨道加速业务的公司和没用这些轨道的公司之间的竞争态势。

I think as we're talking about revenue development, it's gonna be about what's happening in the end market, what's happening in the competitive dynamics between the businesses that are using crypto rails to accelerate their business versus the ones that aren't.

但你得对终端市场有个全面的了解，不能只盯着加密货币这一块。

But you're gonna have to have a picture of what's happening in that end market that goes beyond just the crypto part of it.

我觉得现在这一切正在实时发生，而且会变得非常重要。

And that, I think, is happening in real time right now, and that's going to be really important.

如果我们再往上一层看，对。

Now if we step out another level Sure.

从那个层面来看，我觉得你会开始看到股票的分化。

From from that, I think you're going to start seeing equity disaggregation.

也就是说，交易不同的利润池，嗯。

So trading different profit pools Mhmm.

在某个特定公司内部。

Within a particular company.

好的。

Okay.

这从两个方面来看都很有意思。

And that's interesting from two sides.

从投资者角度看很有意思，因为你可以说，我想押注H100，同时做空Vera Rubin或Blackwell，或者反过来操作。

It's interesting from the investor side because you can say, I wanna bet on H100s, and I wanna short Vera Rubins or Blackwells, or or you might do the opposite trade there.

很好。

Great.

但从管理层角度看，管理层会开始注意到，嘿。

But then from a management perspective, management is going to start seeing, hey.

你知道吗？

You know what?

市场对我们拥有的这块业务给出了更高的估值倍数，对。

The market is putting a higher multiple on this business that we own Mhmm.

而另一块业务则不然。

Versus this other business.

也许我们应该把资本开支投入到估值倍数更高的业务上，是的。

Maybe we should invest CapEx into the business that gets the higher multiple Yeah.

更快地扩展那个业务。

Expand that business more quickly.

而且，你实际上是在为开始推动这些业务的自主管理奠定基础……

And by the way, what you're doing is you're laying the groundwork for starting to drive autonomous management of the...

这些业务，对吧，市场发出的信号会引导资本配置。

These businesses, right, where the market is sending signals that drive capital allocation.

所以，你可以开始看到一些非常有趣的步骤正在出现。

So some really interesting steps that you can kind of start seeing coming through.

债务方面，也就是结构中的债务部分。

The debt side of the of the structure.

塞斯刚才说的一切也适用于公司的债务结构，现在有些债券……

Everything Seth just said can also apply to the debt structure of of companies, where you could have bonds that are now...

理论上，这些债券以非常具体项目的现金流作为抵押。

In theory, bonds that are collateralized by the cash flow of very specific projects.

所以，当大公司想要进行非常具体的投资时，可以有非常定制化的融资方式。

So you can have very tailored financing as a large company wants to make very specific bets.

他们可以通过量身定制的债务和股权来融资。

They can finance it through tailored, you know, tailored debt and tailored equity.

这真是有意思。

Fascinating stuff here.

让我特别感兴趣的一点是，显然这些公司在被拆分和解构，尤其是在利润池的结构以及公司选择投资资源的地方。

I mean, one of the things that piqued my interest, obviously, there's this unpacking and unbundling of some of these companies, especially when it comes to sort of the the structures of some of these profit pools and where companies are choosing to invest resources.

你还提到了自主管理，我觉得这……

You also mentioned autonomous management, which is something that I I think...

而且托尼……

And and Tony...

托尼对此很感兴趣，安迪在思考这个问题时也开始微笑了。

Piqued Tony's interest, Andy's starting to smile even as you think about this.

所以我觉得你们在这方面走在了前面。

And so I think this is something where you guys are ahead of the curve.

作为资产管理人，你们在思考未来，而其他人还在努力追赶。

And as an asset manager, thinking about the future whereas others are still trying to catch up.

跟我聊聊资本的自主管理吧。

Talk to me about autonomous management of capital.

你觉得这会是什么样子，这里面的机会有多大？

How you think that is going to look, and what is the opportunity at stake here?

在那个例子里，我说的是公司管理团队的一些职责开始被接管，但这当然也可能发生在基金管理这边。

So so in that particular example, was talking about the management teams of companies starting to to have some of their roles taken over, but it could certainly also be on the the the fund management side.

不过我觉得那还要更远一些。

But but I think that's a a little further out.

好的。

Okay.

特别是当你想到机构业务时，很多都是人际关系、信任，以及长期的知识传递。

Particularly when you think about the institutional business, a lot of it is the human relationships, the trust, the the knowledge transfer over time.

但我认为有一个非常重要的动态在起作用，那就是利用AI，确保……

But but I think there's a really important dynamic at play, which is using AI, making sure that...

你看。

Look.

我们的优势在于模拟数据。

Our advantage is the analog data.

我们能够以专有的方式拥有这些人类数据，这些数据来自参加会议、与人交流、与项目负责人及其竞争对手交谈，综合起来形成世界观。

It's the human data that that we're able to own in a proprietary sense from going to conferences, speaking to people, talking to the leads of projects, to their competitors, it all together, synthesizing it into a a world view.

这才是极其宝贵的。

That's what's incredibly valuable.

但利用AI作为工具来综合这些数据，威力无比。

But using AI as a tool to synthesize that, insanely powerful.

由此带来的生产力提升，使得分析师或投资者在研究某个特定标的时，现在只需花费20%或10%的时间，就能将生产力提升10倍，并且审查……

Having the productivity gains from that so that an analyst or an investor that's looking at a particular name can now do that in 20% of the time, 10% of the time, and be able to to 10 x their their productivity and and what the review...

所有这些都在当下发生。

Like, all of that is happening right now.

这……

It's...

这些工具太棒了。

The the tools are amazing.

富兰克林是受托人。

Franklin is a fiduciary.

投资组合经理……

The portfolio manager...

责任最终落在投资组合经理身上。

The buck stops the portfolio manager.

所以我当时眉头一皱，心想如果这个智能体出了岔子，那还是得由投资组合经理来负责。

So my eye, know, eyebrow was raising just in the sense that if the if the if the agent goes astray, well, it's still in the portfolio manager to be responsible for that.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

那我们来总结一下，带我们走进富兰克林内部看看。

And and so to wrap up here, take us inside of Franklin.

因为你说的很多情况，在医疗、制造等行业的企业架构里都很普遍，而且……

Because a lot of what you're describing is is ubiquitous across corporate structures when it comes to health care, and it come...

在资产管理领域也同样适用。

It comes to manufacturing, it comes to these companies, but it also applies to asset management.

那跟我们讲讲富兰克林内部的情况吧。

And so take us inside of Franklin for a moment.

富兰克林内部增长最快的产品和业务领域有哪些？你们又是怎么考虑在这些产品上进行创新和迭代，以便继续保持领先的？

What are some of the fastest growing products and verticals inside of Franklin, and how are you thinking about innovating and iterating on those products so that you can continue to stay ahead?

我来试着回答一下。

I'll take a crack at that.

我们有很多想法，这些想法是三年后能实现的吗？

We have many ideas that are, are they three years out?

还是七年后才能实现？

Are they seven years out?

但我们正在思考的是，资产管理行业未来可能不再以账户为基础。

But things we're thinking about, thinking about the idea of asset management world where it's not account based.

也就是说，你和我，我们不需要在不同地方开设账户。

So we don't, you and I, we we don't have our accounts at various places.

我们所有的资产都在一个钱包里。

We have all of our assets in a wallet.

这意味着什么呢？

What does that imply?

哪些资产可以放进那个钱包里？

What assets can go into that wallet?

嗯，它们肯定会被代币化。

Well, they're they're tokenized for sure.

然后，代理如何……

And then how can agent...

AI代理或AI如何帮助管理这些？

AI agents or AI help with the management of that?

我们如何仍然向投资组合经理提供建议，毕竟……

How can we still offer advice back to the portfolio manager still is...

责任最终在那里。

You know, the buck stops there.

但这些部分如何组合在一起，我认为我们将决定七年后的世界面貌。

But how all these pieces come together, I think we're gonna drive what the world looks like in seven years.

我觉得我们刚才聊的所有东西都离不开连接性。

Well, I think everything that we've been talking about requires connectivity.

需要钱包。

It requires wallets.

需要我们在加密领域一直在建设的一切，这些东西要变成基本配置，变成基础设施，而且我们现在正看到这一切在快速发生。

It requires everything that we've been building in crypto to to kind of become table stakes, to become infrastructure, and and we're seeing that happen right now very quickly.

不管是代理还是人类，只要所有东西都在链上连接、钱包无处不在，摩擦就会减少。我们认为AI和加密是互补的技术，而这里正是这种互补关系真正发挥作用的地方。

And whether it's agents, whether it's humans, that that reduced friction of having everything connected on chain, having wallets everywhere, like, we think AI and Encrypto are complementary technologies, and this is where the the rubber meets the road on that complementary technology dynamic.

钱包、互联性、跨链连接，这些可能最终会变得不那么显眼，不再被频繁提及，但它们是我们走到今天的关键基石。

It's wallets, it's interconnectedness, it's cross chain connectivity, something that that's probably gonna end up being in the weeds that doesn't get talked about that much anymore, but but it it was a key building block to to get where we are today.

这将是快速推动所有创新的关键因素。

That's gonna be the key enabler of just inflecting all of the innovation very quickly.

我觉得这里可以用一个词，叫金融奇点。

I I I think the term here is the financial singularity.

这真的是传统金融和……的融合。

This truly is the convergence between TradFi

以及我们谈论了很久的链上经济。

And the on chain economy that we've been talking about for so long.

你们和整个富兰克林团队帮助开创了这一领域，现在也成为了其他想要加入的机构的引领者。

You guys and and the entire Franklin team has helped pioneer this and is now a steward of the rest of the institutions that are looking to come on board.

赛斯、托尼，非常感谢你们的参与。

Seth, Tony, guys, thank you so much for joining.

这真是

It was an

非常愉快。

absolute pleasure.

愉快。

Pleasure.

我们很希望你们能再次来做客。

And we'd love to have you guys on again.

太棒了。

Awesome.