#262 阿莉娅·罗莎 - 俄罗斯性间谍谈诱惑香水、性间谍术与蜜罐特工技巧

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我是说，这这这很有道理，而且我知道正在发生。

I mean, it makes I I it makes sense, and, I know it's happening.

但是，你知道，如果是我，在我刚射精后有人问我是否认识另一个知名男性，我可能会想为什么我们要想其他男人。

But, you know, if if it was me and somebody was asking if I knew another man that was prominent right after I ejaculated, I'd probably be wondering why we're thinking about other men.

但但我是但我们会深入探讨这个。

But But I am but we're gonna get into this.

但是关于，比如说，工作。

But about, like, the work.

所以你有点像在说，哦，亲爱的，你工作太辛苦了。

So you're kind of like, oh, you know, my love, you work so hard.

你你太忙了。

You you're so busy.

所有重担都压在你肩上。

Everything is on your shoulders.

我想帮帮你。

I want to help you.

让我给你按摩吧。

Let me do massage for you.

你今天过得怎么样？

How was your day today?

嗯

Mhmm.

啦 啦 啦

La la la.

好的

Okay.

那么，这个项目是你一个人做的吗？

So, do you do this project by yourself?

或者你工作的时候像我一样，比如说和大卫一起工作？

Or you work like I work with, like, David, let's say.

哦，他会帮你吗？

Oh, like, does he help you?

比如，他具体是做什么的？

Like, oh, what does he do exactly?

不不不。

No, no, no.

明白了。

Gotcha.

你知道的，就是这种对话。

You know, this sort of conversation.

就像，女性对男性那种关怀备至的对话，她想支持他、取悦他等等这些。

Like, a female nurturing conversation with a man, and she wants to support him and just please him and all that.

我就是这个意思。

That's what I mean.

你知道，

You know,

这是一种女性特有的能量和视角。

it's a female kind of like energy and female perspective.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以

So

既然我们聊到这个话题，我是说，我们在讨论获取秘密之类的事情，那你对爱泼斯坦事件怎么看？

What what do you think I mean, since we're on the this this top, I mean, we're talking about getting secrets and all this other stuff, but what about what do you think about the Epstein stuff?

我非常好奇你对这件事的看法。

I'm very curious about your thoughts on that.

天啊。

Oh my god.

那个所谓的勒索行动。

The blackmail operation supposed blackmail operation.

你觉得那是什么？

What do you think that was?

好吧。

Okay.

就我个人在媒体和新闻上看到的一切来说。

So my personal opinion on everything I see in the media and in the news.

当我没亲眼所见，也没看到事实和证据时，我不能仅凭他人的想法或陈述就发表意见。

When I didn't see it myself and I didn't see the facts and evidences, I cannot give my opinion just based on someone's thoughts or someone's statements.

我不信任任何媒体或任何消息来源，毕竟我没亲身经历过。

I do not trust none of the media or wherever, wherever I hear So, haven't been there.

我也没有亲眼目睹。

I haven't seen it.

所以这就是为什么我不会对此发表个人看法。

So, that's why I would I wouldn't say my own opinion about that.

而且我不想重复别人的观点，因为你知道，每个故事都有两面性，就像硬币一样。

And I don't want to repeat someone's opinion on that because it could be all this you know, like, every single story has two sides like a coin.

一方面，这可能是设局。

On one side, it could be a setup.

当有权有势的人想获取更多权力或财富时，总会有人设局——因为其他人不想让他得逞，于是双方竞争等等，竞争对手就会设局陷害他。

It's always a setup when a powerful, wealthy man trying to get more power or more money and somebody else doesn't want him to do it, and they, like, competed blah, blah, blah, and that's why the competitor would set him up.

我们经常看到这种情况。

And we see this all the time.

在间谍世界里，这实际上被称为'构陷'。

It's called actually in the spy world, it's called compromise.

通过构陷材料或构陷某人，目的是让这个目标失去权力。

Compromising materials, compromising someone in order for him or for this target to lose the power.

也许这就是一次构陷。

Perhaps this was a compromise.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我当时不在场。

I wasn't there.

如果我是那些女孩中的一员，我会告诉你，是的，我是受害者之一，事情就是这样发生的。

If I would be one of these girls, would tell you, Yes, I was one of the victims, and that's what happened.

我不知道。

I don't know.

另一方面，因为有这么多受害者和这么多证据，我们某种程度上可以说确实如此。

On another hand, because there's so many victims and because there's so many evidences, yeah, we kind of like we can say yes.

但重申一次，媒体呈现的所有内容，我们在互联网上看到的一切，就像我说的，我很感激能在这里，因为现在你们给了我一个机会，让我能以个人身份发声，而不是让某些记者用他们的方式写我，给我贴各种标签或断章取义。

But again, you know, everything what is presented in media, everything what we see in the internet, like I said, like, I'm grateful to be here because now you give me an opportunity to speak out from my own, like, persona from myself rather than some journalists write about me calling me, like, different names or editing or, you know, writing about me in their own way.

所以我认为，这个世界上的每个人都应该有自己的观点，不应该受他人想法的影响。

So, I think, like, every single person in this world should have his own opinion and should not be under this influence of anyone's thoughts.

因此，形成你自己的观点，做你自己的研究，进行你自己的调查，然后自己得出结论。

So, make your own opinion, have your own research, do your own investigation, and make an opinion yourself.

这是一种很好的处世之道。

It's a good way to be.

这样的生活态度很好。

It's a good way to be.

好的。

All right.

你准备好讲述人生故事了吗？

You ready to get into the life story?

当然准备好了。

Yeah, of course.

好的

All right.

你在哪里长大的？

Where'd you grow up?

好的

Okay.

我出生于1984年

So, I was born in 1984.

我出生在苏联。

I was born in The Soviet Union.

说起来很伤感，这个国家现在已经不存在了。

It's sad at the same time to say that this country doesn't exist anymore.

但同时，我出生的那个国家有着稳定的生活，就像我祖母常说的，明天会和今天一模一样。

But at the same time, I was born in the country which had the stability, my grandmother would say, Tomorrow would be the same day as today.

那很美好，因为你不需要担心钱从哪里来这类问题。

And it would be amazing because you don't need to worry about, like, where would you have money?

也不用担心会被解雇之类的事情。

Would you be fired or whatever?

每个人家里都会有相同数量的物品，每月收入相同，工资也一样。

Everybody would have the same amount of things in the house, like same amount of money coming every month, same salary.

大家都会穿同样的衣服。

Everybody would wear the same clothes.

所以，一切都会一模一样。

So, everything would be the same.

这虽然有些无聊，但某种程度上，或许算是一种乌托邦，它给了人们这种稳定的基础，让他们知道一切都很相似，明天也会和今天一样。

It's kind of boring, but at the same time, and it's maybe utopia, but at the same time, it gives people this stable kind of like foundation where they know that everything is similar and tomorrow will be the same day.

所以，这就是它的美妙之处。

So, it's the beauty of it.

1991年时，我可以说有幸经历了在两个国家交界处生活的奇妙体验。当1991年苏联解体，重建时期开始时，那几乎像是一场革命，甚至类似内战，因为那时平民们涌向政府大楼白宫，并开始轰炸白宫。

And in 1991, so I kind of like probably would say I have this amazing experience to live on the border of two countries When in 1991, you saw a fall and the Restroyer Corps began, it's sort of like it was sort of revolution, almost like a civil war, because that time in 'ninety one, you know, civilians went to the sort of like the Government house, the White House, and they started to bomb to the White House.

那真是一团糟。

It was a mess.

那是一片混乱。

It was a chaos.

当然，人们失去了稳定。

Of course, people lost the stability.

他们失去了所有希望。

They lost all the hopes.

他们失去了所有信仰。

They lost all the beliefs.

你知道，就像你从小被灌输的那种意识形态，这是你的祖国。

You know, like that ideology that you were raised with, this is your country.

你们在二战中为祖国而战。

You fought for your country in the second war.

他们在二战中损失了超过2000万士兵。

They lost over 20,000,000 soldiers in the second war.

他们为家园、为祖国和一切而战。

And they fought for their house, for their homeland and everything.

然后在某一天的某个时刻，它突然就崩塌了。

And then at one point in one day, it just collapsed.

我和一些美国朋友聊天时，他们说戈尔巴乔夫夫是最棒的。

Where I spoke with some American friends and they said that, Oh, Gorbachev is like the best.

美国人喜欢戈尔巴乔夫。

Americans love Gorbachev.

而俄罗斯人却憎恨戈尔巴乔夫。

Whereas, like, Russians, they hate Gorbachev.

我的意思是，他们可能不算憎恨，但绝对在评判戈尔巴乔夫，因为正是他签署了这项法律并彻底改变了我们的生活。

I mean, like, they don't maybe hate, but they definitely judge Gorbachev because he was the one who actually signed this law and uses our full.

总之，我亲眼目睹了这一切——人们原本过着稳定幸福的生活，日复一日，年复一年。

So, anyway, so I saw this by my eyes where like, you you have the stability and happy kind of like people living same day for the, you know, during like their life.

然后突然有一天，整个体系就崩溃了。

And then another day, everything just collapsed.

我记得那时我还是个小女孩，经常要和妈妈、刚出生的妹妹一起，

And what happened, I remember that time I was a little girl, and we would be We would stand with my mom, my little sister, like she was a newborn.

在雨雪寒风中排队五六个小时，有时甚至七个小时，就为了能买到一点食物，因为商店里根本没什么可买的。

We would stand under the rain, under the wind and the snow for like five, six, sometimes seven hours in order to get some food from the store because there were no food.

你来到商店，却发现货架空空如也。

So, you would come to the store, there's no food.

什么都买不到。

You can't buy anything.

基本上就是在挨饿。

So, you're basically starving.

所以，你得带上全家人去商店，证明说，看，我是个成年人，还有两个孩子。

So, you would need to bring your members of the family to the store to show like, Okay, I'm like, you know, adult and I have two kids.

请给我三块面包、三根香肠和三个鸡蛋。

Please give me, like, three pieces of bread and, like, three sausages and three eggs.

而且排队的人多得离谱。

And, like, lines were, like, insane.

实际上这种情况持续了相当长的时间。

And it was it was, like, actually it was happening for quite a long time.

我确信至少有六个月。

I I do believe, like, it was for, like, six months at least.

具体多久记不清了，但情况真的很糟。

I don't remember exactly, like, for how long, but it was really bad.

你那时大概七岁？

You were, like, seven?

对，差不多。

I were, like, yes.

七岁，对吧？

Seven, right?

84年到91年，七岁吗？

84 to 91, seven years old?

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

所以，那是我童年时期。

So, it was I mean, that was my childhood.

这就是我记得的。

That's what I remember.

当时感觉就是，哇。

And it was like, wow.

因此，这造成了某种食物短缺、生活不稳定以及对未来充满不确定性的状态。

So, it created this sort of like lack of food and lack of stability and lack of like belief what would happen tomorrow.

你知道，当你还是个孩子，目睹这一切时发出呻吟，你会明白一切都是如此阴暗，简直无法预测，你几乎不能信任任何事物，包括你的政府。

You know, when you're a kid and you are groaning with, like, seeing all that, you understand that everything is so shady and it's, like, unpredictable and you cannot trust, like, anything really, neither your government.

对吧？

Right?

那时我父亲无法帮助我母亲，因为他一直在工作却拿不到薪水。

Then my father, that time, he couldn't help my mom because he was constantly at his work where he was not get paid.

那时他是军队里的一名军官。

So, he was that time an officer working in the military.

他参军是因为他的父亲，正如你提到的，我祖父是国家的英雄，曾与纳粹作战。

He went to the military because of his father, because, as you mentioned, like, my grandfather was a hero of the country, you know, fighting Nazi.

我是说，这是我们家族莫大的骄傲。

And I mean, it's a big pride of our family.

这是一份传承。

It's a heritage.

所以我就是在这样的信念中长大的。

So, I was raised with these beliefs.

你知道，你也需要去保卫你的国家。

Like, you know, you also need to go and protect your country.

你也需要为自己的根源感到自豪。

You also need to be proud of your roots.

所以，我父亲当时在慢慢为我准备这条军旅之路，虽然我当时并不知情。

So, my father was preparing me slowly to this military career, which I didn't know at that time.

但他每天都会教导我。

But every day, he would teach me.

他会回到家。

He would come back home.

我们一起吃晚饭。

We would have a dinner.

然后他会每天至少花一小时教我各种心理战术，虽然那时我并不理解。

And he would teach me at least one hour a day about all the psychological techniques, which I didn't understand at the time.

比如生活中的各种情境应对。

Like, different scenarios in life.

所以，他会给我一个，像是测试。

So, he would like give me a, like, test.

这就是生活中的情境。

So, this is the situation in life.

你会怎么做？

What would you do?

ABC。

ABC.

我会选择一个答案，然后他会向我解释为什么这个可行，为什么那个不可行。

So, I would pick up like an answer, and then he would explain me why this would work and why this wouldn't work.

当我准备得差不多时，他开始教我极限驾驶和射击。

So, when I was kind of like ready enough, then he taught me the extreme driving, the gun shooting.

当然，我还必须进行体能训练。

And of course, I had to do physical activities.

实际上我在州级比赛中赢得过一些奖项。

I actually was I won like some competitions between like oblasts, which are states.

你知道，就像俄罗斯的州，他们叫州（oblast）。

You know, like here are states in Russia, they have oblasts.

所以，就像是几个城市联合在一起。

So, it's like a few cities together.

所以，这很相似。

So, it's like similar.

我在射击比赛中赢过一些比赛。

So, I won some competitions in like gun shooting.

我是最厉害的射手。

I was the best gun shooter.

你还问过我，要不要去射击？

And you asked me, like, shall we do the gun shooting?

我有点怀念那种感觉。

I like I kind of like miss it.

但对我来说，这就像创伤后应激障碍（PTSD），你懂吗？

But for me, this is like PTSD, you know?

所以，我尽量远离枪支之类的东西。

So, I try to stay away from guns and all that.

因此，我主张和平。

So, I stand for peace.

在我青少年时期，他教会了我很多。

And so, he taught me a lot when I was a teenager.

他是在为我的未来职业做准备。

So, he was preparing me for my future career.

后来我以最优异的成绩完成了高中学业。

Yet So, I finished my high school with, like, best grades.

你知道，我当时特别书呆子气。

Like, I was, you know, I was so nerdish.

我就是那种，你知道的，被欺负的女孩。

I was so like this, you know, like this bullied girl.

首先，我是整个俄罗斯学校里唯一一个亚洲面孔的女孩，周围都是蓝眼睛金发的孩子。

First of all, I was only one Asian looking girl in the whole Russian school with, like, all these kids, blue eyes, blonde.

所以，我自然是被欺负的那个，这很正常。

So, of course, I was bullied, which is normal.

其次，我当时是个十足的书呆子。

Second, I was such a nerd.

高中时没人会像普通学生那样做作业。

So nobody would do, like, homework as normal in high schools.

大家都会去约会啊什么的。

Everybody would be like, you know, going to, like, dates and all this.

而我却是那个熬夜做作业、读陀思妥耶夫斯基、契诃夫和普希金的人。

I would be the one who would do my homework and reading books at night, you know, like Dostoyevsky, Chekhov, like Pushkin.

所以同学们都讨厌我，就因为我是个书呆子。

So, students, my pupils, like, they hated me because I was a nerd.

所以我总是知道答案。

So, I always would know.

我总是完成作业，而老师们就会觉得：好吧，看来没人知道答案。

I always would do my homework and teachers would like, Okay, so nobody knows.

好的。

Okay.

拜托。

Come on.

你知道的，快告诉我们答案。

You know, give us the answer.

所以，他们当然讨厌我。

So, of course, they hated me.

后来在某个时刻，我也觉得自己像只丑小鸭。

And then at some point, I also felt myself like ugly duckling.

所以，我不被允许外出。

So, I was not allowed to go out.

我不被允许，你知道的，交朋友。

I was not allowed to, you know, have friends.

所以，我放学后就回家，你知道的，待在家里做作业，帮我妈妈做家务之类的。

So, I would come after school back home and, you know, be home and prepare my homework and help my mom with the, you know, house and all this.

所以，我父亲非常非常严格。

So, my father was very, very strict.

所以，我不能说不。

So, I couldn't say no.

而且，他们来自穆斯林背景的家庭。

Also, like, they from are Muslim background.

实际上我并不是。

I'm actually not.

我后来受洗了。

I baptized eventually.

不过这是另一个故事了。

But anyway, it's another story.

我们来自穆斯林背景的家庭，在那里女性没有权利说不。

So, we are coming from Muslim background where a woman doesn't have really the right to say no.

所以，作为一个女性，你不能真正表达自己的想法、愿望或意见。

So, as a woman, you cannot really speak out about your ideas or desires or opinion.

所以，你是在穆斯林家庭长大的吗？

So, you grew up Muslim?

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

哈萨克斯坦和鞑靼斯坦都是穆斯林地区。

So, Kazakh and Tatarstan, they are Muslim.

他们信仰真主，我祖母会诵读古兰经。

So, they believe in Allah and my grandmother would read Quran.

他们并不真正使用那些语言，因为在苏联时期所有人都必须说俄语。

They didn't really speak that language just because in Soviet Union, you had to, like, sort of like speak Russian, everybody.

每所学校都使用俄语教学。

Like, in every school, it would be like Russian.

所以我某种程度上丢失了自己的母语。

So, I kind of like lost my own language.

我的父母也没有用这种语言和我交流。

And my parents didn't speak with me this language.

而且在苏联时期，人们实际上不被允许拥有自己的宗教信仰。

And also, in Soviet Union, you were not really allowed to have your own religion.

所以那些基督徒、东正教徒，他们甚至不被允许佩戴十字架。

So, people who were Christians, Orthodox, they were not really allowed to wear crosses.

他们不被允许去教堂。

They were not allowed to go to churches.

我是说，这太疯狂了。

I mean, that was crazy.

想象一下，莫斯科市中心那座最大、最宏伟的教堂，美轮美奂。

Like, imagine one of the biggest, amazing church, the biggest one in Moscow, in the center, it's beautiful.

在苏联时期，他们竟然拆毁了教堂，在原地建了个游泳池。

During Socominis, they actually destroy it and they created a swimming pool instead of the church.

你能相信吗？

Can you believe that?

不相信。

No.

当时的情况就是这样。

This is like that's the way it was.

所以他们试图彻底摧毁俄罗斯人民对上帝的信仰。

So, they completely tried to demolish and destroy the belief into God in Russian population.

他们试图...

So, they were trying to

他们为什么要这么做？

Why do they do that?

苏联的独裁统治，比如斯大林、列宁他们的独裁政权。

Dictatorship of the Soviet Unions, like Stalin dictatorship, Lenin's and all that, of course.

因为这是你唯一应该信仰的宗教。

Because like this is the only one religion you should believe.

斯大林。

Stalin.

这就是你的父亲。

This is your father.

这就是你的沙皇。

This is your tsar.

这就是你的神。

This is your god.

一切。

Everything.

那么，

So,

再次强调，这是宣传手段。

again, propaganda.

Wabby，当时民众在他们...时在做什么？

Wabby, what was the population doing when they were

你是指苏联时期的民众吗？

The population you mean like in Soviet Union?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我是说，我在苏联长大时还是个小女孩，但和我很亲近的祖母会说...我不知道。

I mean, I was a little girl when I was in when I was raised in Soviet Union, but my grandmother with whom I was very close, so she would say it was I don't know.

但她说那是最好的时代，只因为他们知道明天会发生什么。

But she would say this was the best time just because they would know what would happen tomorrow.

每个人都一样。

Everybody had the same.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以，那些政府官员们过着明星般的生活，或者像国王一样，但这只是极少数人，而99%的人口都在工作。

So, that government people, they live like stars or whatever, like kings, but it's just like a small percentage where the 99% of population, they work.

会工作。

Would work.

会抚养孩子。

Would raise the kids.

他们拿相同的工资。

They would have the same salary.

生活有保障。

They would have the stability in life.

所以，一切都一样。

So, everything was the same.

所以，就是

So, it's

明白了。

Gotcha.

我不知道。

I don't know.

稳定吧，我想。

Stability, I guess.

明白了。

Gotcha.

所以，你现在是基督徒了？

So, you're a Christian now?

我在退伍后不久就受洗了，那时我对一切都失去了信仰，所以决定皈依基督教。

So, baptized when I was so straight after the military, I decided to come to the because I lost belief in everything that moment.

你知道，人需要内心的支撑。

And, you know, you need to have your inner support.

所以我在比较大的年龄才真正领悟，我是说，成年后才明白。

So, I came to the gut at quite like, you know, big age because I understood, I mean, like adult age.

因为我意识到我需要这种对上帝的信仰，我想要...甚至不知如何表达，但就是感觉需要，感觉这或许能帮助我，拯救我不再做那些坏事——我曾试图自杀。

So, because I understood that I want to have this belief in God and I want to like, you know, I don't even know how to say, but I just like felt like I needed, you know, like I felt like this may help me and save me from like doing bad things because I tried to suicide.

我曾尝试吸毒。

I tried to drug myself.

我是说，我那时在严重伤害自己的身体。

I mean, I was doing like really bad things to my body, to myself.

谈论这些真的让人很尴尬。

It's really embarrassing to speak about it.

但我只是...我只是失去了信仰。

But I I just I just look belief.

好的。

Okay.

我们会慢慢来的。

We'll get there.

所以是18岁，我说的对吗？

So 18, am I correct?

在

At

18岁，是的。

18 Yes.

这就是你一切开始的年纪吗？

Is when it all kinda started for you?

嗯，是的。

Well, yeah.

我是说，其实开始得更早，只是你没意识到，但你父亲

Mean, actually, started from you early because you didn't realize it, but your dad

不，没有。

was No, didn't.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我是后来才意识到的。

So, I realized it after.

那么，发生了什么？

So, what happened?

我是说，你是怎么被招募成为一名色情间谍的？

I mean, how did you get recruited into being a seductive intelligence operative?

对。

Yeah.

这完全是另一回事。好吧，简单来说。

It's whole different So, basically, okay.

让我从头开始讲。

So, let me start from the beginning.

那时候我刚满18岁，对吧？

So, turned 18, right?

我告诉我爸，我想从事时尚行业。

I told my dad, I want to work in fashion.

我还记得他的回答。

So, I remember his answer.

他说：时尚是什么东西？

He said like, What is fashion?

你只有一条裙子、一双鞋、一件衬衫。

You have one skirt, one shoes, one blouse.

这就是你的时尚。

This is your fashion.

这就够了。

This is enough.

你要去那个部门，因为我在那儿有熟人，我已经跟他打过招呼了。

You're going to, you know, this department because I have my friend there who is, you know, who I already spoke with him.

他可以帮你注册成为特工。

He can, you know, enroll you at being an agent.

那时候是在行动调查部门。

That time, it was in the department Operative Investigation.

实际上我持有所有证明、档案和文件，能显示我是哪年开始在那里工作的。

So, I have actually all the certificate, archives, documents to show what year I started to work there.

于是他就带我去了这个部门。

So, he brought me to this department.

我见到了我未来的指挥官。

I met my future commander.

我在那里以实习生身份工作。

And I worked there as an intern.

然后当他们批准你并通过所有程序后，会送你去学院学习。

And then when they approve you and everything, they send you to the academy to study.

因为每个人刚加入时，至少需要知道如何用枪射击。

So, because everybody, when they just enter, they have to know, like, at least how to shoot from the gun.

对吧？

Right?

所以你需要完成培训教育。

So, you need to go through the education.

这些都是特殊课程。

So, they're like special courses.

当你来的时候，你需要学习比如射击、民法、行政法之类的课程。那时候所有人会被分组。

When you come, you are supposed to study like, you know, like gun shooting, like civil law, like admin law, like that time for So, everybody would be divided.

不同部门会有不同的科目。

Like different departments would have different subjects.

比如在我的部门，我们当然需要学习格斗术。

For example, in my department, we would need to study, of course, like martial arts.

那么，如何逮捕罪犯？

So, how to arrest a criminal?

如何解读罪犯的心理画像？

How to read the psychological profile of the criminal?

比如他身上的纹身，那些身体上的墨水图案。

You know, his tattoos, for example, like his ink on the body.

这些纹身意味着什么？

What does it mean?

他的弱点是什么？

What's his, you know, weakness?

他身上有什么特征？

Like, what about him?

比如他的心理侧写。

Like, his psychological portrait.

所以你需要某种程度上深入理解这些。

So you need to kind of, like, get into there.

当然还有武术，比如你知道的，柔术、桑巴之类的。

Then, of course, martial arts, like, you know, jiu jitsu and samba and all that.

举个例子，你可能遇到需要逮捕某人的情况。

So, for example, you would be in the situation where you have to arrest someone.

所以你需要保护好自己。

So, you need to protect yourself.

我们每天都要用马卡洛夫手枪进行射击训练。

Every day, we would, like, shoot from the gun of the pistolet Makarov, the Makarov gun.

我们还要练习那个叫什么来着？

And we would also do how to call it?

非常抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

你可以剪掉这段，但我忘了这是门教你开锁的课程。

You may cut it, but I forgot the So, it's a subject where you learn how to open the lock.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

破门

Breaching.

破门

Breaching.

也许吧

Maybe.

对

Yeah.

所以，我真的不知道用英语该怎么称呼它

So, I don't really know how to call it in English.

嗯，不过确实有这类课程，你能学到特工使用的技术

Well, but yeah, this sort of like subject where you actually can You learn about technologies for agents.

好的

Okay.

所以当我进入学院时，我们大约有300多名学生

So, when I came to the academy, we were about like over 300 students for like

300名学生？

300 students?

是的。

Yes.

多大年纪？

How old?

大家都年轻吗？

Is everybody young?

大家都

Is everybody Everybody

很年轻。

is young.

对。

Yes.

所有人都在19岁以下。

Everybody From to 19.

年龄在18到20岁、25岁之间。

From 18 and 20, 25.

我想大概30岁之前吧。

I think before like 30ish.

男生和女生都有吗？

Men and women?

男生和女生都有。

Men and women.

当然，女生的比例显然会少得多。

Of course, the percentage of women would be obviously much less.

所以，我估计女生大约占10%，其余都是男生。

So, I would say like 10% would be female, the rest male.

而且他们会分住在不同的宿舍。

And they would have a separate dorm.

比如男生会住在单独的宿舍楼里。

Like male would be like living in a separate dorm.

但发生了什么事？

But what happened?

就在第一天我们排队的时候，当我们列队站在老师面前时，我注意到学校的负责人——就是校长，他看着我，然后选中了我和另外几个女孩。

So, literally in the first day when we had the first like line, when we lined up in front of our teachers, I noticed that the main teacher, like the main teacher of the school, the director, let's say, he looked at me and he picked up like me and another few girls.

接着我们被邀请去了他的办公室。

And then we were invited to his office.

然后他们宣布我们被选中参加一个特殊项目，说我们非常幸运。

And then we were announced that we are chosen for a special program, and so we are very privileged.

他们永远不会称之为性间谍。

They would never call it sex espionage.

他们永远不会称之为美人计。

They would never call it honey trap.

我是后来才明白的。

I understood it only after.

但当时他们说这是个特殊项目，能帮助我们接近那些罪犯或目标人物——就是我们的任务对象。

But they said that's a special program which will help you to target those, you know, criminals or people whom, you know, who will be your task.

所以，你需要学习这些课程。

So, you need to study the subjects.

你需要学习心理学。

You need to learn psychology.

之后，你会被分配任务。

And then after, you will be given tasks.

这会给你带来更多好处，因为你的薪水会更高。

This will give you more benefits because you would have better salary.

你会有更好的晋升机会。

You would have better promotion.

你可能还会有额外的假期。

You may have additional vacations.

这在当时听起来简直太棒了。

And which was like, wow, that time.

要知道，俄罗斯人以前——尤其在苏联时期——由于铁幕政策，出国旅行是个大难题。

You would given You know, that Russians before also they had And especially in the Soviet Union, they had like really big problem to travel abroad because of the Iron Curtain.

所以，你那时根本拿不到任何签证。

So, you couldn't literally get any visa.

所以，现在实际上正在发生同样的故事。

So, now it's actually happening the same story.

所以，那时候出国旅行也非常困难。

So, that time also, like, it was really hard to travel abroad.

所以，你不能直接去大使馆拿到签证就去美国。

So, you couldn't just go to the embassy and get a visa and travel to America.

根本不可能。

Like, no.

我是说，除非你有特殊的外交护照或关系之类的。

I mean, maybe if you would have a special diplomatic passport or connections or whatever.

所以当你真正成为这个特工时，你可能可以出国执行特殊任务。

So, when you actually go as this agent, you may be able to fly abroad for special missions.

这还挺酷的，, 因为听起来像电影里的詹姆斯·邦德。

And it's sort of like cool because it sounds like in the movie, James Bond.

哇，我要出国了。

Wow, I will go abroad.

我会执行这些特殊任务，环游世界之类的。

I'll have like this special missions and I'll see the world, blah, blah, blah.

你知道，对18岁的人来说，这听起来很迷人。

You know, for like 18 years old, it sounds like fascinating.

算是吧。

Sort of.

所以当他们通知我被选中参加这个项目时，我想，好吧，挺酷的。

So, when they announced me that I am chosen for this program, I was like, Okay, cool.

你知道，我很高兴能学习这个。

You know, I'm happy to study that.

这个特殊项目里只有我们五个女孩。

And we were like five girls in this special program.

所以我们会去上主修课程。

So, we would go to our main classes.

所以早上6点就是第一项活动，你知道的，就是晨练。

So, 6AM would be the first lineup, like, you know, the morning.

然后是慢跑、体能训练之类的。

Then jogging, physical activities, blah, blah, blah.

早餐8点，之后必须去上课。

Breakfast, 8AM, you have to be in the class.

从早上8点到下午4、5点，具体取决于你是否需要参加更多体能训练或其他活动，反正你都得完成。

So, from eight to four, 5PM, depends from like, you know, if you would have like physical activities more or whatever, wherever, you would be down.

然后我们五个女孩还要去上两小时的特殊课程，接着赶第二天的作业。

Then us, five girls, you know, we would go to these special classes for another two hours, And then we would catch up with our homework for the next day.

就这样结束了。

And then that's it.

我们就回去了。

We would go.

然后又是体能活动，比如慢跑之类的，接着吃晚饭，最后回宿舍睡觉。

So, then again, also, like, it would be a physical activity, whatever, like jogging or something, then dinner, and then you go and sleep to the dorm.

这就是我们那一天的日程安排。

So, that was our kind of like schedule for the day.

每天我们都会花几个小时学习诸如心理技巧之类的科目。

So, every day for a few hours, we would study these subjects such as psychological techniques.

比如操纵技巧、诱惑技巧、影响力与说服技巧，如何识人读心、辨别谎言，如何为目标制定策略，这类社会工程学内容——具体操作方法、团队协作方式，如何评估目标的弱点与欲望需求，如何招募人员、结交朋友、吸引他人，如何通过操纵手段让某人成为你的线人，以及如何威胁特定目标对象使其主动或被迫提供你需要的情报。

So, for example, manipulation techniques, seduction techniques, influence, persuasion techniques, how to read and scum people, how to spot the lie, you know, how to set up a strategy for your target, like this social engineering thing, like how to do it, how to work in the team, how to estimate your target's weaknesses and desires and needs, how to recruit someone, how to make friends, how to attract people, how to make someone to be your informer, again, through manipulation, how to threaten people, your targets particular so they would want or they have to give you information you need.

当然还包括附加的武术课程，以及性技巧。

And of course, additional martial arts, of course, sex techniques.

我们学习的性技巧主要是针对男性愉悦方面的内容。

So, we would study some of the sex techniques in terms of like the pleasure for men, I would say.

确切地说不是关注你自身的愉悦，而是如何取悦男性。

Like, not particularly your pleasure, but, you know, how to please the man.

但最让我着迷的是——这也是我大量传授给学生们的——

But also, which I find really fascinating, and that's what I give to my students a lot.

我认为这些是根基，真正塑造了如今的我。

And I think this is a foundation, and I think this really changed me to who I am right now.

当我刚加入时，我就像个十足的丑小鸭。

So, when I entered, I was like really ugly duckling.

我那时害羞且完全缺乏自信。

I was shy and completely unconfident.

说实话，我以前并不明白这点，但现在我真正理解了。

So, we actually, I didn't understand that before, but now I really get it.

于是我们开始通过自信训练来培养自爱。

So, we've started the self confidence techniques to raise your self love.

最终你会变得无比自信，执行任何任务时都不会怀疑自己可能失败。

So, you become so freaking confident to go to any mission that you don't even have any doubt that you may fail.

就像现在，无论去梵蒂冈城公开演讲，还是在联合国发言——记得我给你讲过这个故事。

So, even now, wherever I go, like public speaking in the Vatican City, like public speaking in United Nations, I was, know, I told you the story.

我们开车来的路上我突然想到这个，就觉得‘拜托’

We were driving here and I had this thought and then I'm like, Oh, come on.

你知道，我一直都...我清楚自己能做到。

You know, like I always, you know, I know that I can do it.

他们教会我们如何为成功编程大脑，尽管过程艰难且你想放弃，这真是太神奇了。

It's just It's amazing how they taught us how to program your brain for a success even though it's so hard and you want to give up.

这对我帮助极大，尤其是当我参战并执行那些极其危险的任务时。

And it helped me so much when I went to the war and I went to the really bad, dangerous missions.

我当时想着，就这样了。

And I was thinking, that's it.

此刻，这就是终点。

Right now, this is the end.

但正因为这些技巧，我始终有个念头：不，我知道我能挺过去。

But just because of these techniques, I always had this thought like, No, I know that I can go through that.

我知道我能做到。

I know I can do it.

我知道我会做到。

I know I'll do it.

这种信念是我以前从未有过的。

Like, this is the belief which I didn't have before.

它就像被植入并深植于我的大脑中。

And it was like placed and planted into my brain.

我相信这是一切的根基。

And I believe that this is the foundation of everything.

这个学校要上多久？

How long is this school?

好的。

Okay.

所以，最初的六个月是最重要的基础课程。

So, six months, this is the first initial, most important foundational classes.

然后你会回到原来的部门，回到你本该工作的岗位。

Then you go back to your department, wherever you were, like, you know, you're supposed to work.

接着你开始工作，算是实践阶段。

Then you work, like, you kind of like do the practice.

当你晋升更高军衔时，比如高阶军衔，你需要回来学习更多科目和技术。

Then going to When you go to When you're getting another rank, for example, high rank, you're supposed to come back and you would be given more subjects, more techniques.

就是说，你必须要具备更高职位、更高等级的资格。

Like, you kind of like have to be qualified for bigger job, for bigger, for high rank.

你需要再回去学习六个月。

You go back again six months.

有时候可能需要一年时间。

Sometimes you can do it a year.

其他大学，比如莫斯科和圣彼得堡的那些。

Other universities, like for example, in Moscow one and in St.

实际上，对，就是普京就读过的那所。

Petersburg, actually, yeah, where Vladimir Putin studied.

所以有些特定的学院，你需要像上大学一样在那里学习三四年。

So, there are particular academies where you actually go and you study there as a college for like three, four years.

但因为我已经在国际法大学注册了，所以我相当于同时读了两所大学。

But because I was already enrolled to the International Law University, so I was doing sort of like two universities, like two educational at the same time.

所以我一边在大学学习国际法，一边还在进行这个项目，之后还要工作。

So, I studying international law at my university and also was doing this and also after I was working.

是啊。

So, yeah.

哇。

Wow.

所以，相当

So, quite a

工作量很大。

A lot of work.

我是说，教育经历也很丰富。

I mean, a lot of education as well.

你是什么时候意识到可能涉及性交易的？

What point did you realize that sex may be involved?

性交易？

Sex?

对。

Yeah.

当我第一次被强奸时。

When I was first firstly raped.

我当时还是处女。

I was virgin.

我来到那个部门。

I came to the department.

遭到了强奸。

Was raped.

难道在培训过程中讨论诱惑和取悦男性这类内容时，你都没意识到工作内容会涉及性行为吗？

This didn't the going through the course and talking about seduction and pleasuring a man and all this kind of stuff, you didn't realize that it didn't occur to you that sex would be involved in the job description?

好吧。

Okay.

那么，关于性这件事。

So, about sex.

就像我提到的，我父亲非常严厉。

So as I mentioned, my dad was really strict.

所以在我18岁之前和家人一起生活时，我是不被允许外出的。

So I was not allowed to go out when I was living, like, you know, with my family till 18 years old.

我甚至没有亲吻过任何男孩。

I didn't even kiss any boy.

我几乎不和任何人说话。

I didn't even speak with anyone.

我非常害羞。

I was so shy.

我觉得自己很丑，诸如此类的想法。

Like, I felt like I'm so ugly and all that.

就像丑小鸭一样。

So, I don't know, it was like ugly ducklings.

18岁那年，父亲把我带到了这个部门。

So, 18 years old, my dad brought me to this department.

仅仅几周后，大概两周左右，我的指挥官同事就打来电话——那时候我们还没有手机。

Literally in a few weeks, like two weeks, my commander colleague calls, that time we didn't have cell phones.

于是，他打了我家的座机电话。

So, he calls to my home phone.

我父亲接起了电话，就像往常一样。

My dad obviously picks up as he always did.

那时大约是晚上8点左右。

And it was about like 8PM.

所以已经是傍晚时分了。

So, it was evening.

我的同事说：‘哦，我们有紧急警报’。

And my colleague said, Oh, we have alarm.

有人被杀了。

Somebody's killed.

城里发生了些事情。

Something happened in the city.

所以她必须尽快赶到我们部门，因为我们需要她来工作。

So, she has to come ASAP to our department because we need her to work.

那时候，我已经以实习生身份入职了。

And that time, I already was enrolled as an intern.

好的。

Okay.

所以，我必须得去。

So, I had to come.

于是，我爸就说，准备好。

So, my dad said, like, Get ready.

去吧。

Go.

我到了部门，发现我同事已经喝醉了。

So, I come to my department and I see my colleague being already drunk.

你知道，感觉有些可疑的事情正在发生。

You know, something shady going on.

他关上了门。

He closed the door.

他拿起那个箱子，然后真的开始咬我并强奸我。

He takes the case and he literally starts to bit me and rape me.

然后

And

所以这是在你

So this is two weeks after your

在我被录取之后。

After I was enrolled.

是的，这个哦，拜托。

Yes, to this Oh, please.

他知道并看到了我父亲当时是高级军官，可能是指挥官，他当时正在高官，带着我去见指挥官，指挥官批准我作为未来的特工。

He knew and he saw my father, who was that time high ranking officer, bringing me to the commander where commander like approves me as a future agent.

他看到了这一切，对吧？

He saw that, right?

所以，他并不在乎这个。

So, he didn't care about this.

他说，如果你告诉你父亲，你知道的，你全家都会完蛋。

He said, If you will tell your dad, you know, like your whole family will be fucked.

整个名誉都会毁于一旦。

The whole reputation will be fucked.

就像，你最好别说出来。

Like, you'd rather not to tell that.

因为，他们会责怪你，说这是你的错。

Like, because, like, they will blame you because this is your fault.

你看到了吗，这种操控手段？

You see, like, the manipulation?

是你勾引我的。

You seduce me.

这是你的错。

This is your fault.

我什么都没做。

I didn't do shit.

看，这都是你的错。

Like, this is your fault.

第二，我当时是处女。

Number two, I was virgin.

我告诉过他，我之前从没做过这种事。

I told him like, I have never done it before.

就像，我可以...这其实无所谓。

Like, I can like, it doesn't matter.

第三，反正你都要去军事学院了。

Three, you are going to the military academy anyway.

你应该学会将身体与情感分离。

You're supposed to disattach your body from your emotions.

这是训练的一部分。

This is part of the training.

他们就是这么做的。

That's what they do.

你的身体属于国家。

Your body belongs to the state.

你的身体属于政府。

Your body belongs to the government.

你那些所谓的感受和情绪，根本就不存在。

You, with your like, you know, feelings and emotions, like just it doesn't exist.

灵魂是不存在的。

The soul doesn't exist.

哇。

Wow.

明白了吗？

Okay?

于是所有这些训练最终让你变得像机器人一样，直到现在——虽然很遗憾但我无法改变——我的身体依然与情感完全分离。

So, all these things and then they literally make you to become sort of like robotic where even now, unfortunately, but like I cannot do anything about it, still now, like my body lives completely separate from my emotions.

举个例子，即使发生性关系，也不代表我对这个男人有任何感情。

So, for example, if I have an intercourse, it doesn't mean that I have any feelings towards this man.

所以，我仍然可以有高潮之类的，一切都很好，但我没有任何情感依恋。

So, I still can have an orgasm and all that, and it's all good, but like I don't have any attachment.

而且我无法，你知道的，培养这种依恋，因为我被训练要从身体中剥离这些感受和情绪。

And I cannot, you know, create it because I was trained to remove these feelings and emotions from my body.

所以，我的身体只是一个工具和一项任务。

So, my body was just a tool and a mission.

哇。

Wow.

这确实说得通。

That does make sense.

你从没告诉你父亲吗？

And you never told your dad?

我从没告诉过我父亲，因为我的意思是，我能告诉他什么？

I never told my dad because I mean, what would I tell him?

是他把我送到那里的，然后呢，让他余生都为此自责吗？

He brought me there and then, what, he would blame all his life that he did it to him?

我是说，他对我做了那些事。

I mean, like, he did it to me.

我不想让他自责，你明白吗？

I don't want him to blame himself, you know?

我从未告诉过他。

I never told him.

我觉得他多少能察觉到一些端倪。

I think he kind of, like, understands that there's something there.

你在海军服役过，应该知道统计数据——目前公开的数据显示每年约有20%的女性和男性官兵遭遇性骚扰，其中20%在军队中遭受过强奸。

And you worked at Navy, and you know the statistics that about twenty percent, and this is what we know, twenty percent annually, twenty percent of female and also male are targeted for sexual abuse and twenty percent are raped in military.

这就是统计数据。

And this is the statistic.

你只要上网查查，这些数据都明摆着。

Like, you know, just open charge of Internet and like, it's clearly there.

而且这还只是美国的情况。

And it's only in The US.