本集简介
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仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
我是安娜·纳瓦罗，在我的新播客《与安娜·纳瓦罗一起哔哔》中，我采访那些最接近你所在社区及全球重大事件的人。
I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
因为我知道，此刻在内心深处，我们都在咒骂着，想知道到底发生了什么。
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
每周，我都会深入剖析我们社区和全球正在发生的重大事件。
Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
我会与像朱莉·K这样的人对话。
I'm talking to people like Julie K.
布朗，她在2018年曝光了杰弗里·爱泼斯坦的爆炸性新闻。
Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
司法部历经四届总统政府，都辜负了这些受害者。
The justice department through, we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《与安娜·纳瓦罗一起哔哔》。
Listen to bleep with Anna Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
《彭博早间新闻》是你每天早晨第一时间获取资讯的最佳方式，直接在你的播客订阅中即可收听。
Bloomberg Daybreak is your best way to get informed first thing in the morning right in your podcast feed.
你好。
Hi.
我是凯伦·莫斯科。
I'm Karen Moscow.
我是内森·哈格。
And I'm Nathan Hager.
每天早上，我们早早起床制作《彭博晨间新闻》美国版的最新一期节目。
Each morning, we're up early putting together the latest episode of Bloomberg Daybreak US edition.
这是你每天十五分钟的播客，为你带来全球新闻、政治和国际关系的最新动态。
It's your daily fifteen minute podcast on the latest in global news, politics, and international relations.
每天早上收听《彭博晨间新闻》美国版播客，获取你需要背景信息的重要新闻。
Listen to the Bloomberg Daybreak US edition podcast each morning for the stories that matter with the context you need.
在苹果、Spotify或你收听播客的任何平台找到我们。
Find us on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you listen.
彭博音频工作室，播客、广播、新闻。
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news.
在开始之前，先说几点注意事项。
A few quick notes before we get started.
在中文里，姓通常在前，名在后。
It's customary in Chinese for family names to come before given names.
所以对于徐延军来说，徐是他的姓，延军是他的名。
So with Xu Yanjun, Xu is his family name, and Yanjun is his given name.
但几乎我们采访的所有人，以及我们为这个故事查阅的几乎所有文件，都称他为徐。
But almost everyone we spoke to and almost every document we reviewed for the story referred to him as Xu.
因此，为了简便起见，我们会对他和其他几个人也采用同样的叫法。
So for simplicity, you'll hear us do the same for him and for a few others.
此外，本系列包含原本用中文撰写和讲述的内容。
Also, this series includes material originally written and spoken in Chinese.
在不同环节，您会听到演员用英语配音这些翻译后的内容。
At various points, you'll hear actors voicing the translated versions in English.
本集节目也包含一些粗俗语言。
This episode also contains strong language.
最后，这是第二集。
Finally, this is the second episode.
如果你错过了第一集，我们建议你从头开始回听。
If you missed the first, we recommend going back and listening from the beginning.
谢谢。
Thanks.
当乔丹和我刚开始查阅这个案件的文件时，我们看到了一堆通常会遇到的东西——庭审证词、电子邮件之类的。
When Jordan and I first started going through the documents of this case, we saw a bunch of the usual things we'd expect trial testimony, emails, that kind of stuff.
但有一件事特别引人注目。
But one thing really stood out.
记住，徐延军是一名间谍，为世界上最神秘的情报机构之一——中国国家安全部工作。
Remember, Xu Yanjun is a spy working for one of the most secretive agencies in the world, China's Ministry of State Security.
因此，当我们发现一些更私密的内容时，感到非常意外，这些内容让我们仿佛进入了他的内心世界。
So it was surprising to come across something much more intimate, something that made us feel like we were inside his head.
6月11日上午，眼镜处方，3月6日。
June 11 morning, eyeglasses prescription, March 6.
全家人都去集敏寺拜佛。
The whole family worshiped the Buddha at Jimin Temple.
10月29日晚上，扇子男和他妻子举办了宴会；4月5日上午，和二叔一家一起去扫祖父的墓。
October 29 evening, the fan man and his wife held banquet April 5 morning, went with the second uncle's family to sweep great grandfather's tomb.
徐延军有一个在线日历，用来记录他的约会。
Xu Yanjun had an online calendar where he put his appointments in.
这是布拉德利·霍尔，负责徐延军案件的FBI主调查员。
This is Bradley Hall, the lead FBI agent on the Xu Yanjun case.
每天结束时，他都会给自己写一些简短的笔记，记录当天发生的事。
At the end of the day, he would take little notes to himself about what happened that day.
有时是关于线人会面的事。
Sometimes it was related to source meetings.
有时是关于工作上的矛盾。
Sometimes it was related to work conflicts.
有时是关于他的妻子、孩子，或者他想买的房子。
Sometimes it was about his wife or his child or the apartment that he wanted to buy.
7月15日下午，买了房子，签了合同。
July 15 afternoon, purchased the house, signed the contract.
5月25日上午，去小晓幼儿园参加家庭日，徒步紫金山。
May 25 morning, family day at the Xiaoxiao's kindergarten, hike Zijin Mountain.
6月25日下午，中岛音乐节。
June 25 afternoon, Midao Music Festival.
徐去参加音乐节。
Xu goes to a music festival.
徐吃龙虾。
Xu eats lobster.
徐开着爷爷的车去购物。
Xu takes his grandfather car shopping.
徐玩牌赢了钱。
Xu wins money at cards.
玩牌。
Play cards.
赢了1500。
Won 1,500.
徐在扑克上输了钱。
Xu loses money at cards.
输了700。
Lost 700.
徐在扑克上输得更多钱。
Xu loses more money at cards.
输了19.50美元。
Lost $19.50.
输了700。
Lost 700.
输了2100。
Lost 2,100.
输了150。
Lost one fifty.
输了600。
Lost 600.
徐在牌桌上似乎很不擅长。
Xu seems to have been pretty bad at cards.
他非常认真地以文字形式记录下了自己生活的每一个细节。
So it was every little piece of his life that he very diligently put down in textual form for us.
那是一本日记。
It was a diary.
那是一本
It was
日记。
a diary.
11月16日下午，和钟林一起看了《星际穿越》。
November 16 afternoon, watch Interstellar with Zhong Lin.
10月31日晚上，去唱卡拉OK。
October 31 evening, karaoke.
11月28日晚饭后，足疗。
November 28 after dinner, foot massage.
2月17日晚上，和张浩一起吃饭。
February 17 evening, dined with Zhang Hao.
喝了三轮酒，吐了。
Three rounds of drinks, puked.
有高潮也有低谷，我们都经历了。
There were highs and lows and we saw all of them.
3月3日晚上10点40分，祖父去世。
March 3, grandfather passed away at 10:40PM.
要说最简单的话，他是个复杂的人。
He's a complicated fella, would be the simplest way to put it.
他有些问题。
He has some issues.
他喜欢赌博。
He he likes to gamble.
他喜欢拈花惹草。
He likes to womenize.
徐某已婚，但并不是最忠诚的丈夫。
Xu was married, but wasn't the most faithful husband.
我不记得我们确认了多少个女友，但数量不少。
I don't remember how many girlfriends we identified, but there were quite a few.
从这个时候开始，其中一位女性开始频繁出现在他的日记里。
One of them starts to dominate his diary around this time.
他用一个桃子表情符号来指代她。
He refers to her with an emoji, a peach.
12月30日晚上，桃子。
December 30, evening, peach.
刚开始，万达希尔顿。
The beginning, Wanda Hilton.
6月29日晚上，桃子。
June 29, evening, peach.
7月2日下午，在谢尔顿附近接上桃子并送了礼物。
July 2, afternoon, picked up Peach near the Shelterton and gave the gift.
8月7日，之后去唱了卡拉OK。
August 7, went karaoke afterwards.
桃子喝醉了，我送她回家。
Peach was drunk and took her home.
9月20日中午，桃子，南京酒店。
September 20 noon, Peach, Nanjing Hotel.
徐的私人生活细节非常精彩。
The details of Xu's personal life are pretty juicy.
但更令人难以置信的是，这名间谍也详细记录了他的工作生活。
But what's even more incredible is that this spy meticulously documents his work life too.
三月局务会议。
March bureau meeting.
1月24日，与航天团队同事聚餐；11月25日，加班至凌晨2:30；5月13日，党委会议；6月11日，会见G。
January 24, held banquet with comrades of aerospace team November 25, worked overtime until 02:30AM May 13, party committee meeting June 11, met G.
三月三十一日，航空简报；八月二十四日，我的正式晋升终于来了，等得太久了。
Chowchu March 31, aviation briefing August 24, my official promotion came, Wait for too long.
终于来了。
It finally came.
心里的一块石头落地了。
Took a load off my mind.
记日记本身很正常，但徐某记录的是一些本应保密、可否认的，关于他的工作以及他是如何开展工作的内容。
It's normal enough to keep a diary, but Xu's recording things that are supposed to be secret, deniable, things about his job and how he does it.
这是一本真正的间谍日记，而我们已经拿到了它。
It's an actual spy's diary, and we got our hands on it.
来自彭博新闻社和iHeart播客，这里是第六局。
From Bloomberg News and iHeart Podcast, this is the sixth Bureau.
我是乔丹·罗伯逊。
I'm Jordan Robertson.
我是德雷克·贝内特。
And I'm Drake Bennett.
我是安娜·纳瓦罗，在我的新播客《Bleep with Anna Navarro》中，我将与那些最接近你所在社区及全球重大事件的人对话。
I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
因为我知道，此刻在内心深处，我们都在咒骂着，问到底发生了什么鬼事。
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
我正在与朱莉·K·布朗等人交谈，她于2018年揭露了杰弗里·爱泼斯坦的爆炸性新闻。
I'm talking to people like Julie k Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
这些受害者几十年来一再被地方执法部门、联邦执法部门以及一届又一届政府辜负。
These victims have been let down time and time again for decades and decades and decades by local law enforcement, by federal law enforcement, by administration after administration.
司法部，历经我们统计的四届总统政府，都辜负了这些受害者。
The Justice Department, through, I think we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听播客的任何平台，收听《Bleep with Anna Navarro》，它是My Cultura播客网络的一部分。
Listen to bleep with Anna Navarro as part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.
我是斯嘉丽·傅。
This is Scarlet Fu.
我是保罗·斯威尼，诚邀您加入彭博情报播客。
And I'm Paul Sweeney inviting you to join us for the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast.
每天，我们利用彭博情报的力量，为您深入剖析推动市场的公司，包括苹果这样的上市公司，以及像OpenAI这样虽为私营但全球皆知的企业。
Every day, we harness the power of Bloomberg Intelligence to bring you deep dives into the companies that are moving markets from publicly traded companies like Apple to those that are privately owned but known by everyone on Earth like OpenAI.
我帮助将彭博情报打造成了今天的模样，Scarlett，现在我们的分析师是全球顶尖的，覆盖了2000多家全球公司。
Now I helped to build Bloomberg Intelligence to what it is today, Scarlett, and now our analysts are the best in the world, covering more than 2,000 global companies.
这正是你的成就，Paul，我们每天都会与这些内部专家交流。
That is your legacy, Paul, and we speak to those in house experts every day.
他们是彭博在各行业、公司和法律流程方面的首选权威。
They are Bloomberg's go to authorities on sectors, companies, and legal processes.
我们每天工作日都会实时进行这些分析，并将最精彩的对话收录在我们的每日播客中。
And we do it all live each weekday then bring you the best conversations in our daily podcast.
请务必在YouTube、Apple、Spotify或其他你收听的平台搜索‘彭博情报’。
So be sure to search for Bloomberg Intelligence on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen.
在下班回家的下午时段收听，补上你在工作日错过的市场资讯。
Listen in the afternoons on your way home from work to catch up on the market news you missed during the business day.
这就是彭博情报播客。
That is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast.
我是Scarlet Fu。
I'm Scarlet Fu.
我是Paul Sweeney。
And I'm Paul Sweeney.
请在您收听播客的任何平台订阅我们。
Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts.
就情报机构而言，中国的国家安全部独具特色。
As spy agencies go, China's Ministry of State Security is unique.
首先，它规模庞大。
First of all, it's massive.
我们听到的估计显示，其员工人数达数十万。
Estimates we've heard put it at hundreds of thousands of employees.
它比联邦调查局和中央情报局的总和还要大得多。
It's way bigger than the FBI and the CIA combined.
它还承担着这些机构没有的额外职责：工业间谍活动，即从企业而非政府窃取信息。
And it has an additional job that those agencies don't, industrial espionage, stealing stuff from companies instead of governments.
不仅仅是军事信息。
It wasn't just military information.
不仅仅是美国的政治信息。
It wasn't just US political information.
他们想要商业机密。
They wanted trade secrets.
他们想要一切。
They wanted everything.
这是负责徐案的联邦检察官马修·麦肯齐。
This is Matthew McKenzie, a federal prosecutor on the Xu case.
每个国家都会搞间谍活动，但并非每个国家都会动用其情报机构窃取商业机密。
Everyone does espionage, but not every country uses their intelligence apparatus to steal commercial trade secrets.
这超出了常规。
That is beyond the norms.
从技术上讲，这是正确的。
Technically, this is correct.
中央情报局和联邦调查局不会窃取商业机密，但美国政府历史上确实有过这样的行为。
The CIA and FBI don't steal trade secrets, but the US government does have a history of it.
在十八世纪末，独立战争刚结束时，美国曾悬赏任何人，只要能从英国棉纺厂偷出织布机的设计图。
In the late seventeen hundreds, right after independence, The US offered bounties for anyone who could smuggle out loom designs from British cotton mills.
这些工厂的建造得益于从意大利丝绸纺纱厂窃取的图纸，而意大利人早在几个世纪前就从中国窃取了这一产业。
Those mills had been built thanks to plans stolen from Italian silk spinners, an industry that Italians essentially stole from China centuries before.
时间快进到二十世纪九十年代。
Fast forward to the nineteen nineties.
中国的经济仍处于文化大革命造成的破坏之后的恢复阶段，执政的共产党合理地决定，必须尽一切努力迎头赶上。
China's economy is still recovering from the devastation of the Cultural Revolution, and the ruling communist party decides, reasonably enough, that they need to do whatever they can to catch up.
十年内，中国成为世界工厂，大量生产玩具、纺织品和厨房电器。
Within a decade, China becomes the world's factory, churning out toys and textiles and kitchen appliances.
他们很快转向更先进的技术，如智能手机和电动汽车。
They soon move on to more advanced technologies like smartphones and electric vehicles.
2015年，中共将这一雄心正式写入一项名为‘中国制造2025’的战略计划中，这名字正是字面意思。
Then in 2015, the CCP codifies this ambition in a strategic plan called made in China 2025, which is exactly what it sounds like.
中国自主研发关键科技，不再依赖西方产品。
China making its own critical technologies and no longer relying on Western products.
这一政策和承诺在很大程度上取得了成功。
That policy and commitment largely worked.
如今可以说，他们在许多这些技术领域已经迎头赶上。
Today, it's safe to say they've caught up in many of these technologies.
但在航空航天领域，他们尚未取得突破，即制造其他国家想购买的飞机、直升机和喷气发动机。
But one key area where they haven't is aerospace, building planes and helicopters and jet engines that other countries wanna buy.
这时，国家安全部就介入了。
That's where the MSS comes in.
特别是其下属的第六局。
In particular, one of its divisions, the sixth bureau.
徐延军曾在该局的一个团队工作，负责窃取世界顶尖航空公司的技术机密。
Xu Yanjun worked there on a team tasked with stealing the secrets of the world's top aviation companies.
中国的一切都是自上而下的方式。
Everything in China is a top down approach.
对吧？
Right?
这是政府下达的命令，我们要自主研发区域客机，不再从波音和通用电气购买。
It is a edict from the government that we are going to make our own regional airliners so we can stop buying from Boeing and stop buying from GE.
我们要打造自己的国产产品。
We're going to make our own domestic product.
徐延军的工作是与中国国有航空航天公司的工程师合作，为他们提供所需的一切。
And Xu Yanjun's job is to work with engineers from China's state owned aerospace companies and get them exactly what they need.
因为他们才是真正负责制造飞机的人。
Because they're the ones who are actually trying to build the plane.
这就引出了徐在2017年秘密录制的一段录音。
Which brings us to a recording that Xu secretly made in 2017.
整个案件中最精彩的部分。
My favorite part of the entire case.
他正在录制一个名叫高亚瑟的人的讲话。
He's recording a talk by a man named Arthur Gao.
这是发动机功率。
This is the engine power.
因此，你必须进行电源中断测试和电磁干扰雷击测试。
Therefore, you have to do the power interrupt test and EMI lightning.
亚瑟·高是美国公司霍尼韦尔的一名工程师。
Arthur Gao was an engineer at the American company Honeywell.
他为民用和军用飞机开发先进技术。
He worked on advanced technologies for both civilian and military aircraft.
对于直升机的控制系统，有两个非常重要的问题。
For control systems of helicopters, there are two very important issues.
一个是旋翼动力学。
One is the rotodynamics.
你必须考虑这一点。
You have to take it into account.
亚瑟原籍台湾，七十年代末来到美国攻读博士学位。
Arthur is originally from Taiwan, and he came to The US in the late seventies to get his PhD.
他最终在凤凰城的霍尼韦尔公司任职。
He eventually wound up at Honeywell in Phoenix.
他受邀来中国发表演讲，名义上是与南京航空航天大学进行学术交流。
He's been invited to China to give this talk in what was described as an academic exchange with the Nanjing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics.
但当他到达那里时，并没有被带到大学去发表演讲。
But when he got there, he wasn't brought to a university to give his talk.
他被带到了一间酒店房间。
He was brought to a hotel room.
房间里只有几个人在场。
Inside, only a few people were there.
亚瑟以为自己在跟一群学者和学生讲话，结果发现根本没有学者。
Arthur thinks he's talking to all of these academics and students, and it turns out that there are no academics.
也没有学生。
There are no students.
那些人实际上是国家安全局的特工，假扮成工业界人士。
There are MSS officers posing as people who work in the industry.
还有中国工程师，来自中国国有航空航天集团中国航空工业集团（AVIC），在那里学习亚瑟在霍尼韦尔的工作内容。
There are also Chinese engineers, employees of China's state owned aerospace conglomerate, AVIC, there to learn what they can from Arthur about his work at Honeywell.
特别是霍尼韦尔为美国军方研制的作战飞机系统。
In particular, the combat aircraft systems that Honeywell builds for the United States military.
这些都是军用标准。
These are all military standards.
它们有非常详尽的规定。
They have very detailed regulation.
亚瑟向这群人讲了大约三个小时。
Arthur talks to the group for about three hours.
在他演讲结束时
And at the conclusion of his presentation
FBI特工布拉德利·霍尔。
FBI agent Bradley Hall.
徐延军向他致谢。
Xu Yanjun thanks him.
他们寒暄了一番，然后请亚瑟离开房间。
They go through all the niceties, and then they ask Arthur to step out of the room.
高老师，也许您先回去吧。
Teacher Gao, maybe you can head back first.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
亚瑟走出房间，留下徐彦军和那些工程师单独在一起。
Arthur walks out of the room, leaving Xu and the engineers alone.
但录像仍在继续，出现了一个惊人的彩蛋。
But the tape keeps rolling, and there's this amazing kind of Easter egg.
你有没有注意到电影和电视剧里的一种叙事套路：故事开头出现一个新角色，其他人必须向他——也即向作为观众的你——解释一切是如何运作的，以及每个人是谁？
You know that narrative convention in movies and TV where, near the beginning of a story, some new character shows up, and someone else has to explain to them, and by extension you, the audience, how everything works and who everyone is?
就像《广告狂人》中佩吉·奥尔森第一天上班的情景。
Think Peggy Olsen's first day on the job in Mad Men.
现在这是高管楼层。
Now this is the Executive floor.
本应井然有序，但实际上并不是这样。
It should be organized, but it's not.
你会看到客户执行人员和创意执行人员混坐在一起。
So you'll find account executives and creative executives all mixed in together.
别问我它们有什么区别。
Please don't ask me the difference.
很好。
Great.
希望你能跟着我的节奏来
Hopefully, if you follow my lead
接下来在录音中听到的，正是对徐的世界的这种说明。
What we hear next on the recording is exactly that for Xu's world.
你听到有人喝了一口饮料，然后把杯子放在桌上。
You hear someone take a sip of a drink and put their mug down on the table.
你听到亚瑟关门离去的声音，接着徐转过身来面对这群中国工程师。
You hear the door close behind Arthur, and then Xu turns back to the group of Chinese engineers.
徐延军开始描述 MSS 如何招募西方专家，如何运作他们，以及他们是如何找到亚瑟，让他教他们美国人如何操作直升机的。
Xu Yanjun starts describing how the MSS recruits Western experts, how they operate them, and how they found Arthur so that he could teach them about what the Americans were doing with their helicopters.
徐想知道工程师们认为亚瑟对他们最有用的地方是什么，他可能成为什么样的信息来源。
Xu wants to know how the engineers think Arthur will be most useful to them, what kind of source he may be.
于是他详细说明了他所引进的不同类型的信息来源，可以说是一种间谍分类法。
So he lays out the different types of sources he brings in, like a taxonomy of spies, let's say.
他逐一向他们讲解了这些内容。
He walks them through it.
我们的合作有几个方面。
There are a few aspects to our collaboration.
他实际上提出了所谓的专家参与的四个层级。
He actually has what he calls four levels of expert participation.
第一层级是高级专家。
The first level are high ranking experts.
这位专家地位很高，且可靠。
This expert is ranked highly and is reliable.
这位专家可以直接参与项目的设计。
The expert can directly participate in the design of the project.
这些人直接参与西方和中国系统的研发工作。
These are folks who have direct involvement in design, in the West and in Chinese systems.
他们能够接触到中国的机密信息及其长期线人。
They have access to classified information in China and their long term sources.
也就是说，这些人被他们长期记录在案，长达十五年、二十年，需要时就会召他们出马。
As in these are the people that they keep on the books for fifteen, twenty years, and they call them in when they need them.
这是我们最高级别的合作。
This is our highest level of collaboration.
你听到的许多关于中国窃取商业机密的故事，都涉及黑客攻击和入侵计算机系统。
A lot of the stories you hear about China stealing trade secrets involve hacking, breaking into computer systems.
但间谍活动本质上更普通，就是培养关系或利用他人。
But spying's ultimately about something way more ordinary, cultivating relationships or using people.
他们会以某种看似无害的理由邀请人们前来。
They invite people over under some kind of innocent sounding pretext.
这是詹姆斯·奥尔森。
This is James Olsen.
我们想邀请您去中国做一场客座讲座，或与我们的专家会面，只是简单认识一下，我们会为此支付您报酬。
We'd like to invite you to China to give a guest lecture or to meet with our experts just for a get acquainted session, and we will compensate you for that.
会有津贴，并且我们会承担您所有的费用。
There will be a stipend, and we will cover all your expenses.
大多数人都会上当。
And most people fall for it.
詹姆斯知道这一点，因为他曾经是一名间谍。
James knows this because he was a spy.
并在中央情报局工作了三十一年。
And the Central Intelligence Agency for thirty one years.
最终成为该机构的反情报负责人。
Eventually, the agency's chief of counterintelligence.
所以詹姆斯非常清楚像徐彦军这样的间谍会做些什么，他说这其中有一套通用的操作手册。
So James has a pretty good idea of what a spy like Xu Yanjun does, and he says there's kind of a universal playbook on how to do it.
这听起来很愤世嫉俗，但在情报界，我们知道每个人都有需求，而我们的工作就是找出你的需求是什么。
It sounds cynical, but in the intelligence profession, we know that every human being has needs and our job in intelligence is to identify what your need is.
我们的期望是，这种需求对你来说如此强烈、如此紧迫、如此重要，以至于只要我们满足它，你就会帮助我们。
And our hope is that need is so compelling, so urgent, so important for you that if we satisfy that need, you will assist us.
你会违反自己国家的法律。
You will violate your own country's laws.
你会把技术交给我们。
You will give us technology.
这听起来很可怕，但我们的业务就是利用你的弱点、需求和脆弱性，而且我们很擅长这个。
It's it sounds terrible, but we are in the business of exploiting your weakness, your needs, your vulnerabilities, and we're good at it.
有时利用脆弱性靠的是胡萝卜，但有时也需要大棒。
Sometimes exploiting vulnerabilities is a matter of carrots, but sometimes it sticks.
人们害怕中国国家安全部。
People fear the MSS.
通常，他们会把这一点与你在中国的家人所依赖的状况联系起来
Generally, they will put that in the frame of your family back in China is dependent on
政府
the government,
我们不希望做任何让他们的生活更困难的事情。
and, we would not wanna do anything to make their life more difficult.
我见过家人被逮捕的案例。
I've seen cases where family members are arrested.
我见过MSS派家人去美国向人们传递信息，要么乖乖听话，要么回中国面对那里的后果。
I have seen cases where family members are sent by the MSS to deliver messages to people in The United States, either get in line or come back to China to face whatever consequences there are for them there.
我们并不确切知道Arthur Gao为什么那样做。
We don't know exactly why Arthur Gao did what he did.
我们多次尝试联系他参与本系列节目，但从未得到回复。
We tried multiple times to contact him for this series, but we never heard back.
我们也联系了他前雇主霍尼韦尔公司。
We also reached out to his former employer, Honeywell.
他们从未回应。
They never responded.
但我们知道，当国安局找上门时，亚瑟很难拒绝，而且他们不止一次登门。
But we do know that when the MSS came calling, it was hard for Arthur to say no, and they came calling more than once.
酒店房间里的那番谈话并不是偶然事件。
That talk in the hotel room wasn't a one off.
国安局早在二十年前就开始盯上亚瑟了。
The MSS first targeted Arthur two decades before.
1997年，亚瑟第一次收到南京航空航天大学（NUAA）某人的邀请。
The first invitation came to Arthur in 1997 from someone at the Nanjing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics or NUAA.
在这个系列中，你会频繁听到NUAA，因为它的工作人员与国安局合作得非常紧密。
You're gonna hear NUAA a lot in this series because its staff worked really closely with the MSS.
他们允许自己被用作掩护，邀请并接待外国访客，以便在他们来华期间评估他们、款待他们、培养他们。
They allow themselves to be used as cover to invite and to host foreign visitors so that they can assess them, wine them and dine them, develop them when they're making their trips to China.
这对国安局来说是一种非常非常宝贵的关系。
So it's a very, very valuable relationship in the MSSIs.
因此，来自南航的邀请不断传来，而亚瑟·高也一直接受这些邀请。
So the invitations from NUAA kept coming, and Arthur Gao kept accepting them.
他会来做一个演讲。
He'd come give a talk.
会有精致的餐宴、长江上的豪华游轮，所有费用全包的旅游行程，参观景点。
There'd be fancy meals, luxury cruises down the Yangtze River, all expenses paid trips to visit tourist attractions.
然后在2003年一次旅行回家后，他的联系人跟进，索要非常敏感的信息。
Then after he got home from a trip in 2003, his contact followed up, asking for very sensitive information.
阿瑟似乎起了疑心，于是中断了联系。
Arthur seemed to get suspicious, and he cut things off.
这暂时奏效了。
That worked for a while.
但国安部非常有耐心，简直难以置信地有耐心。
The MSS, though, can be patient, like unbelievably patient.
十一年后，他的联系人——实际上是一名名叫 Xiaorong 的国安部官员——像老朋友一样重新联系上来。
Eleven years later, his contact, who was actually an MSS officer named Xiaorong, reaches back out like an old friend checking in.
时间过得真快。
Time flies.
已经十一年了。
It has been eleven years.
他提到了一些关于亚瑟个人生活的事情，这些只有朋友才会知道。
He mentions things about Arthur's personal life that only a friend should know.
我听说你最近有了一个儿子。
I heard that you had a son recently.
恭喜。
Congratulations.
他祝亚瑟一家新年快乐。
He wishes Arthur's family a happy new year
保重身体。
Stay healthy.
并邀请他回到中国。
And invites him to return to China.
如果我是亚瑟，我会觉得毛骨悚然。
If I were Arthur, I'd be creeped out.
所以他回复了，但并没有承诺再进行一次旅行。
So he replies, but he doesn't commit to another trip.
两年后，也就是2016年，贾再次提醒他。
Two years later, in 2016, Jaw nudges him again.
这次，Arthur终于答应了。
This time, Arthur caves.
他告诉贾，自己确实计划去中国一趟，是去看望一些朋友的私人行程。
He tells Jia that he does have a trip to China coming up, a personal trip to see some friends.
贾主动提出去北京机场接他。
Jia offers to pick him up at the Beijing Airport.
在车里，他介绍了一位所谓的大学同事。
In the car, he introduces a supposed university colleague.
实际上，那人就是徐延军。
It's actually Xu Yanjun.
在那次访问期间，徐约翰深夜来到Arthur的酒店房间，递给他3000美元。
During that visit, John Xu come up to Arthur's hotel room late at night and hand him $3,000.
亚瑟感到困惑。
Arthur's confused.
这纯粹是一次私人行程。
This has been a strictly personal trip.
没有演讲，也没有会议。
No presentation, no meetings.
他甚至没带工作电脑。
He didn't even bring his work computer.
他们基本上告诉他，留下吧。
They basically tell him, keep it.
留着下次旅行用。
Use it for the next trip.
但在2017年的下一次行程中，当他酒店里做演讲时，又收到了一个装着钱的信封。
On the next trip, though, in 2017, when he gives that talk in the hotel, he's handed another envelope of money.
这次是5000美元。
This time, it's $5.
在他做那次演讲的时候，高亚瑟正在考虑退休。
At the time he gave that talk, Arthur Gao was thinking about retirement.
某种程度上，这反而让他更有价值。
In a way, this only made him more useful.
这意味着他可以停留更长的时间，他们甚至可能正式聘用他。
It meant he could come over for even longer periods of time, and they could possibly even hire him.
他说他可能两年左右就退休了。
He said he may retire in two years or so.
他也确实想退休。
He also wants to.
对吧？
Right?
他有这个能力。
He has the ability.
他很称职。
He is competent.
他有实现某些目标的意愿。
He has a desire to achieve something.
我们也可以这样设计。
We can also design it that way.
亚瑟·高迪是本案中任职时间最长的人员。
Arthur Gowdy, he was the longest running asset that's in the case.
他，我的意思是，他什么？
He I mean, he what?
二十年？
Twenty years?
从这个组织长期运作人员的能力来看，你觉得他代表了什么？
What does he represent to you in terms of, you know, this organization's ability to to run people for a long time?
一方面是行动的长期性，另一方面是这段时间内可能造成的重大损害。
Both the long term nature of the operation and then the significant amount of damage that can happen over that time frame.
布拉德利·霍尔。
Bradley Hall.
以亚瑟为例，当他选择披露时，他透露了可能对我们造成伤害的信息。
With Arthur's example, when he did choose to disclose, he disclosed things that could hurt us.
海军陆战队即将使用的下一代直升机，中国政府没有任何理由知道其技术规格。
The helicopter that the Marine Corps is is gonna fly, the next level helicopter, there's no reason that the Chinese government needs to know the specifications of that.
任何美国公司的员工都不应该准备将这类信息传递出去。
There's no reason an employee of any American company should be prepared to pass that sort of information over.
2021年，亚瑟·高被起诉，并承认了未经许可出口受控信息的罪名。
In 2021, Arthur Gao was indicted and pled guilty to exporting controlled information without a license.
他被判处三年缓刑，并被命令支付罚款。
He was sentenced to three years probation and ordered to pay a fine.
我是安娜·纳瓦罗，在我的新播客《安娜·纳瓦罗的哔声》中，我与那些最接近你社区及全球重大问题的人对话。
I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
因为我知道，此刻在内心深处，我们都在咒骂着，问到底发生了什么。
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
我正在采访像朱莉·布朗这样的人，她在2018年揭露了杰弗里·爱泼斯坦的爆炸性新闻。
I'm talking to people like Julie k Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
几十年来，这些受害者一再被地方执法部门、联邦执法部门以及一届又一届政府辜负。
These victims have been let down time and time again for decades and decades and decades by local law enforcement, by federal law enforcement, by administration after administration.
司法部，据我们统计，历经四届总统政府，都辜负了这些受害者。
The Justice Department, through, I think we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
请收听由迈克·尔特拉播客网络出品的《Bleep with Anna Navarro》，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您常用的任何播客平台收听。
Listen to bleep with Anna Navarro as part of the Mike Ultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
这里是特别探员雷格尔，特别探员布拉德利·霍尔。
This is special agent Regal, special agent Bradley Hall.
时间大约是上午11点15分。
The time is approximately 11:15AM.
即将开始与张大和医生的自愿电话通话。
About to start consensual telephone call with doctor Daiwa Zhang.
中国国家安全部是世界上最神秘、最强大的情报机构之一。
China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world.
但在2017年，联邦调查局成功潜入了内部。
But in 2017, the FBI got inside.
等等。
Wait.
这是一个选择。
That's an option.
我整个职业生涯从未见过这么多证据，我认为我们再也不会看到这么多证据了。
I've never seen that much evidence in my entire career, and I don't think we'll ever see that much evidence again.
我现在掌握了数TB的中国国家安全部官员的资料，毫无疑问，他的生活细节全都在这里，这简直是稀有之物。
I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life, and that's a unicorn.
这是一个关于国家安全部内部运作的故事，讲述了一名男子的野心与失误如何打开了其秘密宝库。
This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
从2月13日起，在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您收听播客的任何平台，收听《第六局》——来自彭博社的播客。
Listen to the sixth bureau from Bloomberg podcasts starting on February 13 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
好的。
Okay.
我们回到徐某关于他招募的各类信息来源的分类。
Back to Xu's taxonomy of the types of sources he recruits.
一级就像是长期直接雇佣某人。
Level one is kind of like having someone who works for you directly over a period of time.
二级更像是聘请一位随时待命、处理特定一次性任务的顾问。
Level two, that's more like having a consultant who's on call for specific one off jobs.
这些人负责研究特定的模型。
These are folks who examine specific models.
他们解决问题。
They solve problems.
他们通常会来中国待一个月，但频率不高，因为他们主要在西方的公司工作。
They usually come to China for a one month period, but fairly infrequently because they are working in companies in the West.
如果我们有具体问题，可以向他们提问，例如。
If we have specific questions, we can ask them, for instance.
如果项目中遇到任何问题，我们可以非常具体地向他们提出问题。
If we come across any problems in the project, we can present them with questions directly in a very specific fashion.
三级则更少投入。
Level three, that's even less of a commitment.
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第三级，他称之为专题专家。
The third level, he called topical experts.
这些人在现场回答问题，或者提供报告，他们只在中国停留极短的时间，因为他们本身就是西方国家该领域的专家，如果他们停留超过一周、一个周末或类似时长，会显得不寻常或引起疑虑。
These are individuals who answer questions in person only, or they provide reports, that they only come into China for very, very short durations of time, because they're experts in their field back in the West, and it would be unusual or raise concerns if these people stayed there for more than a week or a weekend or something like that.
徐表示，这是他个人最常接触的类型来源。
Xu indicated that this was the most common type of source that he as an individual ran.
这是我们过去经常做的事情。
This is something we've done quite a lot in the past.
高亚瑟很可能属于第三级。
Arthur Gao was probably a level three.
李江也是这样的人。
So was a man named Li Jiang.
徐在日记中写到了与李会面的情况。
Xu wrote about meeting with Li in his diary.
4月20日下午，去火车站接李，入住晶明酒店。
April 20 afternoon, pick up Lee from train station, check-in to Jingming Hotel.
我们对李江了解不多，但知道他是战斗机及其制造技术方面的专家。
We don't know that much about Lee Jiang, but we do know that he was an expert on fighter aircraft and how to make them.
比如洛克希德·马丁公司的F-35，这是世界上最先进的战斗机之一。
Like the Lockheed Martin f 35, which is one of the world's most advanced fighter jets.
我们还知道，当徐邀请李来南京演讲时，国安官员使用了化名。
We also know that when Xu invited Li to come give a talk in Nanjing, the MSS officer used an alias.
当李在2014年4月抵达时，徐和贾蓉为他举办了宴会以示欢迎。
When Li arrives in April 2014, Xu and Jia Rong host a banquet in his honor.
这其中涉及一定程度的建立关系。
There's a level of rapport building.
通常还会伴随着宴请和款待。
There's a level of wining and dining that's often involved with this.
但这不仅仅是建立关系。
But it's not just about rapport building.
在宴会上，徐的同事偷偷潜入李的酒店房间，试图黑入他的电脑。
During the banquet, Xu's colleagues sneak into Lee's hotel room and try to hack into his computer.
但他们遇到了问题，没能拿到所有想要的东西。
But they run into problems, and they can't get everything they want.
所以他们几个月后又邀请李回来做另一趟访问。
So they invite Lee back a few months later for another visit.
他们想让他谈谈电动起降系统，并再次尝试黑入他的笔记本电脑。
They want him to give a talk about electric takeoff and landing systems, and they want to take another crack at hacking into his laptop.
12月7日，李政来到南京，受到款待。
December 7, Lee Jeong's coming to Nanjing, entertaining.
徐带李去酒店。
Xu brings Lee to the hotel.
李把行李放进房间，然后去和徐的老板赵荣共进晚餐，赵荣正在私人包间等他。
Lee drops his stuff in his room and then heads off to dinner with Xu's boss, Zhao Rong, who's waiting for him in a private dining room.
我在私人包间里，菜已经点好了。
I'm in the private room, and the dishes have been ordered.
然后徐和另一位同事去李的房间，再次尝试黑入他的电脑。
Then Xu and another colleague go to Lee's room to try and hack into his computer again.
下午6点49分，徐给他的老板发了短信。
At 06:49PM, Xu texts his boss.
笔记本电脑处于睡眠模式。
Laptop is in sleep mode.
一个便携式硬盘和两个小型硬盘。
One portable hard drive and two small drives.
黑客攻击比预期花费了更长时间，他的老板变得不耐烦了。
The hack is taking longer than expected, and his boss gets impatient.
太慢了。
It's too slow.
快点。
Speed it up.
十五分钟后。
Fifteen minutes later.
如果不行，就用你自己的电脑复制。
If it doesn't work, copy it with your own computer.
现在是晚上8点39分。
Now it's 08:39PM.
这个操作已经进行了将近两个小时。
The operation's been going for almost two hours.
徐向他的老板汇报了进展。
Xu updates his boss.
复制工作差不多十五分钟后就能完成。
The copying will more or less be done in fifteen minutes.
恢复场景和文档大约需要二十分钟。
Restoring the scene and documents will take roughly twenty minutes.
快点。
Hurry up.
快点。
Hurry up.
别忘了，徐的老板小王正在和李一起吃晚饭。
Because remember, Xu's boss, Xiaowong, is having dinner with Li.
即使是假的荣誉宴会，也不可能一直持续下去。
And even a fake honorary banquet can only go on for so long.
终于
Finally
雕刻已完成。
The carving is completed.
恢复工作正在进行中。
Restoring is in progress.
经过两小时二十二分钟，徐完成了。
After two hours and twenty two minutes, Xu's done.
已恢复。
Restored.
退出中。
Exiting.
到这个时候，你可以让他自己晃悠回房间了。
You can let him toddle back up to his room at this point.
第二天，李发表演讲，完全不知道自己已经被黑了。
The next day, Lee gives his talk, totally clueless he's been hacked.
我们始终没能联系上李江。
We were never able to reach Lee Jiang.
据我们所知，他从未被指控任何罪行。
As far as we know, he was never charged with any crimes.
徐的专家团队的第四级也是最后一级被称为观察员。
The fourth and final level of Xu's experts are called spotters.
这些人是我们安置在西方的，他们的工作是识别可能容易被国安局招募的工程师。
So these are people that we have living in the West whose job it is to identify engineers who might be susceptible for working with the MSS.
这些人对徐来说至关重要，因为他们生活在像美国这样的地方，郭最初是在北京被国安局接触的。
These people are crucial for Xu because they live in places like The US, Gee was first approached by the MSS back in Beijing.
那是2012年。
It was 2012.
他即将大学毕业，正在校园里参加招聘会。
He was about to graduate from college, and he was checking out a job fair on campus.
他还申请了几所美国的研究生院，打算攻读工程学硕士学位。
He'd also applied to some grad schools in The US to get a master's degree in engineering.
他并不确定接下来究竟想做什么。
He wasn't sure exactly what he wanted to do next.
在招聘会上，他遇到了小蓉，而她也在执行自己的 spotting 任务。
At the job fair, he meets Xiaorong, who's on a spotting mission of his own.
这位国安官员向吉自称为大学教授，并向他介绍了一个所谓的‘保密单位’的模糊机会。
The MSS officer introduces himself to Ji as a college professor and tells him about some vague opportunity in a, quote, confidential unit.
这是吉在第一次交谈后发给女友的短信内容。
This is Ji texting his girlfriend about that first conversation.
他表示，他们想培训我替他们做事，因为他们自己无法离开中国。
He indicated that they wanted to train me to do things on their behalf because they are not able to leave the country.
吉是第六局的完美人选。
Gee was a perfect candidate for the sixth bureau.
他本就计划为了正当理由前往美国——攻读工程学项目，因此不需要掩护身份。
He was already planning to go to The US for legitimate reasons, an engineering program, and so didn't need a cover.
他非常兴奋能当间谍。
And he was psyched to be a spy.
一旦安全部门坦白了他们的真实身份，他就全身心投入了。
Once the MSS came clean about who they really were, he was all in.
他进入了一所芝加哥的大学，与安全部门签署了正式文件，搬到了美国，并开始工作。
He got into a university in Chicago, signed official paperwork with the MSS, moved to The US, and got to work.
他的任务是提供有关在美国高科技公司工作的华裔美国人的背景信息，并尽可能提供一些评估信息。
His job was to provide background information and hopefully some assessment information on Chinese Americans who were working in high-tech companies in The United States.
前中情局反间谍主管詹姆斯·奥尔森。
Former CIA chief of counterintelligence, James Olsen.
他热情高涨。
He was fired up.
他真的非常想做这件事。
He really wanted to do this.
当间谍还挺有意思的。
It's kind of fun being a spy.
习近平玩得很开心，有点太过开心了。
And Xi had fun, a little too much fun.
2014年，他联系了一位来自中国的朋友。
In 2014, he reaches out to a friend he knows from China.
这位朋友正在华盛顿特区学习航空工程。
The friend is studying aeronautical engineering in Washington DC.
纪想请他帮忙寻找潜在的线人，于是他先发了一张一堆100美元钞票的照片。
Ji wants his help finding potential sources, and he starts off by texting a photo of a bunch of $100 bills.
这些是来自徐延军的运营资金，他现在是纪的上线。
It's operating funds from Xu Yanjun, who's now his handler.
哈克，你竟敢
Harker, you even dare
拍下这个？
to photograph this?
偷偷拍下这个。
Photograph this sneakily.
看完就删。
Delete after you see it.
然后，G以他自己的方式终于谈起了正事。
Then, g eventually gets down to business in his own way.
去你的。
Fuck you.
帮我打听一下。
Ask around for me.
你的学校。
Your school.
有人学发动机或飞机设计吗？
Does anyone study engines or aircraft design?
有。
Yes.
那就是我学的专业。
That's the major I'm doing.
帮我一把，跟这个领域的人交朋友。
Help me out and befriend people in the field.
春假什么时候开始？
When does spring break start?
我会给你这笔钱，混蛋。
I'll give you funds for it, asshole.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我对他有一半一半的好感。
Halfway half to like him.
你懂的？
You know?
他到处炫耀钱。
He flashed the money around.
他吹嘘自己在做什么。
He he bragged about what he was doing.
他喜欢扮演一个小小间谍的角色。
He loved being kind of a a boy spy.
你知道吗？
You know?
他确实就是个少年间谍。
And that's exactly what he was, a boy spy.
我的意思是，想象一下刚毕业就做这份工作。
I mean, imagine being fresh out of college and doing this job.
你可能也会表现得有点鲁莽。
You might act a little reckless too.
当你看G在那段时间发的信息时，你会想，对啊。
And when you look at g's text from around this time, you're like, oh, right.
他还是个孩子。
He is still a kid.
看看他和他爸爸的这些消息。
Take these messages with his dad.
爸爸，现在有好的海参吗？
Dad, is good sea cucumber available now?
向他请教市场上的事情。
Asking him for advice at the market.
这个季节只有干的。
Only dried ones in this season.
好的海参随时都有，但这个季节没有新鲜的。
Good ones are available all the time, but no fresh ones in this season.
干的能保存多久？
Do the dry ones last?
向他更新你的旅行情况。
Updating him on his travel.
过海关。
Through customs.
明白了。
Got it.
登机后，把行李收好，换上拖鞋，好好休息一下。
Put away your belongings, put on your slippers, and take a nice rest after you board the plane.
宝贝，加油。
Baby, do your best.
还有他从MSS拿到的钱。
And on the money he gets from the MSS.
我收到了6000。
I received 6,000.
这不错。
That is good.
注意安全。
Stay safe.
保持警惕。
Be vigilant.
与人互动时，试着理解他人的意图。
Try to understand others' agenda when you interact.
心怀感激。
Be grateful.
以美元计算，不是人民币。
In US dollars, not renminbi.
他和父亲的这些短信都发生在2014年。
These texts with his dad are all in 2014.
一年后，G又收到了徐发来的另一条短信。
A year later, G gets another text from Xu.
你在吗？
Are you there?
我有个请求想拜托你。
I have a favor to ask.
我在这里。
I'm here.
请说吧，徐兄弟。
Please go ahead, brother Xu.
这里有三个网站。
Here are three websites.
分别查一下这些人。
Look up these people separately.
这些人都是波音、洛克希德·马丁、NASA和通用电气的工程师，全部出生于中国或台湾，当时在美国工作。
These people being engineers at Boeing, Lockheed Martin, NASA, and GE, all of whom were born in either China or Taiwan and were working in The US.
她想对他们进行背景调查。
She wants background checks on them.
家庭住址、电话号码、配偶信息，敏感内容。
Home addresses, phone numbers, who they're married to, sensitive stuff.
查询需要付费，且必须使用外国签证卡支付。
A fee is required for the search, and it needs to be paid using a foreign visa card.
好的。
Okay.
我试试看。
I'll give it a try.
一周后，纪将他在网上购买的背景调查报告发给了徐。
A week later, Ji sends Xu the background checks he bought on the internet.
他给文件设置了密码，压缩后，给它起了个调皮的代号：期中考试卷。
He puts a password on the file, zips it, and gives it a cheeky code name, midterm exam paper.
说实话，这些背景调查对一个新手来说只是个小活儿。
Honestly, these background checks, they're a small job for a rookie.
目前，G在徐的层级体系中地位很低，但看起来他正努力提升自己，想在国安局里变得更有价值。
For now, g's pretty low down in Xu's taxonomy, but it seems like he's trying to rise through the ranks and make himself more valuable to the MSS.
毕业后，G加入美国陆军，以此作为快速获得美国公民身份和安全许可的途径。
After he completes grad school, g enlists in the US Army as a fast track to get American citizenship and a security clearance.
所以他虽然年轻鲁莽，但也相当有策略性。
So he may be young and reckless, but he's also pretty strategic.
他很有潜力。
He has potential.
你看， MSS 的业务就是下注。
See, the MSS is in the business of making bets.
有些是大赌注，比如花几十年时间培养在国外工作的工程师。
Some are big bets, like grooming engineers working abroad over the course of decades.
有些则很小，比如给一个二十多岁的人一大笔钱，然后派他出去，看看他会走到哪里。
Some are quite small, like giving a 20 something a bunch of cash and sending him out into the world to see where he ends up.
但这些赌注如果足够多都成功了，加起来就会形成更大的成果——一个更强大的中国，而这正是徐延军的最终使命。
But together, if enough of these bets pay off, they add up to something much bigger, a more powerful China, which is ultimately Xu Yanjun's mission.
在录音快结束时，当他向中国工程师们讲完他的分类体系后，他又回到了这一切真正意义的核心。
Near the end of the recording, after he's gone through his taxonomy with the Chinese engineers, he brings it back to what this is all really about.
归根结底，我们都在为国家服务。
At the end of the day, we are all serving the state.
我们都在为国家服务。
We are all serving the state.
对吧？
Right?
大家，我们都有相同的目标。
Everyone, we all share the same goal.
那段录音几乎是运气使然。
That recording was almost dumb luck.
我简直不敢相信，他们竟然没有在放下伪装前关掉录音。
I cannot believe they didn't turn that recording off before they dropped their pretenses.
这真正揭示了中国的间谍手法。
It really shines a spotlight on Chinese tradecraft.
徐和那些工程师，他的上司赵蓉，甚至他所操控的线人，季超群、高亚瑟、李江。
Xu and the engineers, his boss Zhao Rong, even the sources he's handling, Ji Chao Chun, Arthur Gao, Li Jiang.
他们都是这台庞大机器中的齿轮。
They're cogs in this giant machine.
南航的谈话、黑客攻击、胡萝卜与大棒、现金。
The talks at N U A A, the hacking, the carrots, the sticks, the cash.
这就是这台机器内部的真实面貌。
This is what that machine looks like from the inside.
所以，是的，徐就是这个齿轮，但这也是他的生活。
So, yeah, Xu is this cog, but this is also his life.
在录制完这次会议后的几天里，他决定开展一项高风险、高回报的行动，这一行动将彻底改变他的生活，并在未来多年内扰乱整个机器。
And in the days after he records this meeting, he decides to take on a high risk, high reward operation, one that will completely upend his life and disrupt the machine for years to come.
下一期：关于间谍？
On the next episode: about spies?
间谍真的来过这里吗？
Did spies come here?
毫无疑问。
There's no question.
毫无疑问。
There's no question.
你知道，而且
You know, and
3月27日，赵荣拒绝了当天收到的一顿饭。
March 27, Zhao rejected a meal received today.
像他这样忘恩负义的人毫无羞耻心。
An ungrateful person like him has no shame.
我会报仇的。
I will have my revenge.
他本可以有一个出色的案例，拿到一份完美的年终评估，但一周后却因为一张收据上的小数点错误而彻底垮掉。
He would have an amazing case and get a beautiful end of the year review and then be crushed a week later because a decimal point was wrong on a receipt.
所以，这种在‘你很棒’和‘你太糟糕’之间反复摇摆的状态，显然对他的心理状态造成了影响。
So that that yo yoing between you're great and you're terrible clearly was having an impact on his state of mind.
当徐看到邢的领英档案时，他说：‘找到了！就是它了！这正是我们想要的，我要去把它拿下。’
When Xu saw Xing's LinkedIn profile, he said, bingo, jackpot, exactly what they want, and I'm gonna go get it.
我是安娜·纳瓦罗，在我的新播客《安娜·纳瓦罗的跃迁》中，我采访那些最接近你所在社区及全球重大事件的人。
I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Leap with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
因为我知道，此刻在内心深处，我们都在咒骂着，问这到底发生了什么。
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
每周，我都会剖析我们社区和全球正在发生的重大事件。
Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
我正在采访像朱莉·K这样的人。
I'm talking to people like Julie K.
布朗，她在2018年曝光了杰弗里·爱泼斯坦的爆炸性新闻。
Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
司法部历经四届总统政府，都辜负了这些受害者。
The justice department through, we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《与安娜·纳瓦罗一起飞跃》。
Listen to bleep with Anna Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
大家好，我是米歇尔·侯赛因，二十多年来我一直在BBC工作。
Hello, I'm Michelle Hussain, and for more than twenty years, I was at the BBC.
但在我播报新闻头条的整个过程中，我都想超越当日新闻，花更多时间与塑造我们世界的人深入交流。
But all the time I was delivering the headlines, I wanted to go further than the news of the day, to spend more time with the people shaping our world.
而这就是我在这档播客中所做的——采访从奈杰尔·法拉奇到科技记者卡拉·斯威舍等各种人物。
And that's what I'm doing here on this podcast, speaking to people from Nigel Farage's Let's love you trying over needs to be taught to tech journalist Kara Swisher.
科技行业正在失控。
And the tech industry is running wild.
你知道吗，他们得到了自己想要的，股价也大幅上涨了。
You know, they've gotten what they wanted, they've seen a huge run up in their stock prices.
这里将成为一个每周六日都能听到一场关键对话的地方，帮助你理解这个世界。
This will be a place where every weekend, you can count on one essential conversation to help make sense of the world.
所以，请加入我，收听并订阅来自彭博周末的《米歇尔·侯赛因秀》，在你收听播客的任何平台都可以找到。
So please join me, listen, and subscribe to the Michelle Hussein Show from Bloomberg weekend, wherever you get your podcasts.
他确实会提出一些有趣的问题。
He certainly ask interesting questions.
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