创始人模式：保罗·格雷厄姆，Y Combinator创始人

今天在《社交雷达》节目中，我们邀请到了保罗·格雷厄姆，他是Y Combinator的创始人，也是我的联合创始人。欢迎你，保罗。欢迎你，保罗。

Today on the Social Radars, we're joined by Paul Graham, founder, my cofounder at Y Combinator. Welcome, Paul. Welcome, Paul.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我们正在Y Combinator创始人模式静修会上录制这个节目。不开玩笑。

We are taping this at the Y Combinator Founders Mode retreat. No kidding.

哇。这讽刺。

Wow. The sarcasm.

哦，现在开始了。

Oh, it's starting now.

不。不。

No. No.

好的。让我们回想一下去年布莱恩·切斯基的演讲。

Okay. So let's think back last year to Brian Chesky's talk.

是的。

Yeah.

那太不可思议了，房间里的每个人都深受触动。你还记得那次演讲吗？

That was incredible, and everyone in that room was affected. Do you remember that talk?

嗯，所有看过那次演讲的人都会记得。是的。是的。对那次演讲的默认反应是：这是我听过的最棒的演讲。你知道吗？

Well, everyone who saw that will remember that talk. Yeah. Yeah. Default reaction to that talk is it's the best talk I've ever heard. You know?

今年我们也做了场演讲，我开场就说了——既然上次已经是史上最佳演讲，我们绝无可能重现那种效果。所以我们基本上就是在谈论那场演讲本身。因为它确实是独一无二的，是特定情境下的特殊产物。对吧？比如布莱恩，我不清楚他跟你透露了多少。

And and we gave a talk this year too, and we I said upfront that having been the best talk ever, there's no way we could possibly reproduce it. And so we just talked about the talk, really, largely. Because it was this unique one off, it was a unique product of the circumstances. Right? Like, Brian, I don't know how much he told you.

他原本根本不在演讲名单上。是罗恩·康威一直缠着他参加，他才勉强答应说'好吧好吧，我去'。

He wasn't even supposed to be speaking. Right. But Ron Conway nagged him to come, he's like, alright. Alright. I'll come.

嗯。

Yeah.

对吧？而且他连日程表上都没有。结果加里直接说'上去讲几句吧'，结果他讲了快一个多小时。

Right? And then he he wasn't even on the schedule. You know? And Gary just said, you know, get up and say a few words. He went on for like over an hour.

是啊。观众全程都坐着听，因为他在讲些掏心窝的话——这种情境太特殊了。他讲的那些经历，在场每个人都经历过，却都以为只有自己遭遇过。

Yeah. And the audience was sitting there the entire time because he was talking mean, it's a unique circumstance. He was talking about something that they had all experienced and felt like it was only them.

确实。

Yeah.

所以'创始人模式'现象其实有两部分。首先是他的演讲本身，单看就是个创始人讲述自己的故事——这类故事通常都很戏剧性。但后来我和所有创始人交流时——要知道这是场聚集了大量创始人的大型活动——每个人都接连对我说：'同样的事也发生在我身上，我完全没想到。'

So there were really two parts to the whole founder mode phenomenon. Right? There was his talk, which by itself would have just been a founder telling their story, which are often dramatic. But then afterwards, I talked to all the founders, you know, because it's this big event with a huge number of founders, and everyone, one after another, said, the same thing happened to me. I had no idea.

明白吗？那时我就意识到事情不简单。每个人都默默承受着和布莱恩同样的痛苦。没错。

Right? And then I knew something was going on. Right? That every single person had been suffering in secret from the things Brian had been suffering from Yeah. Right.

并且都在试图解决相同的问题。所以我确信世界上缺失了某个东西，有件事他们本可以去做。就像天文学家通过引力效应发现行星的存在，虽然还看不见它，但能观测到次级效应，就知道那里肯定有颗行星等着被发现。

And trying to solve the same problems. And so that's how I knew, you know, there was something missing in the world. There was this thing they could be doing. It was like when they would discover planets by their gravitational effects before they could actually observe them. They sort of knew that there was a planet out there, right, because they could detect its secondary effects, and they just had to go look for the planet.

所以大家的反应就像证明了某颗行星的存在，而那颗行星就是'创始人模式'。对，对。现在我们的任务就是弄清楚它究竟是什么。这听起来可能有点...像是我们在故弄玄虚。

So this reaction of everyone was like the evidence there was a planet out there, and the planet is founder mode. Yeah. Yeah. And so now the task is figure out what it is. And that might sound it might sound like we're being sort of bogus.

我们在讨论这个东西，虽然不知道它具体是什么，但它绝非虚妄。因为我们能够描述它的本质——这是作为公司创始人才能做到，而职业经理人无法实现的所有事情。对吧？

We're talking about this thing, we don't know what it is, but it's not bogus. Because we know we we can describe what it is. It is all the things that you can do if you're the founder of the company that you could you couldn't do if you were just a hired manager. Right?

对。

Right.

就像你能探测到引力效应却尚未观测到行星一样，我们虽不知道具体有哪些事项，但我敢用性命担保这里绝对存在一个'行星'。

We don't know what all those things are, just like you can detect. There's totally a planet here for sure. I'll bet my life on it. Look at the gravitational effects. We still haven't observed it.

数学领域也存在大量被精确定义却不知其全部元素的集合，相关论文亟待撰写。我们现在做的正是这件事——像撰写论文般描述'创始人模式'这个集合。

Right? And so or in math, there's all sorts of sets that are precisely described, but we definitely don't know what all the members of the sets are. There's a lot of math papers to be written about that. And so that's what we're doing now. We're like writing the papers describing the set of things in founder mode.

请谈谈你的《创始人模式》文章。

Tell us about your essay founder mode.

好的。布莱恩演讲后我意识到，这篇文章本质是号召人们探索这个未知领域。就像在说：我们确信存在这颗'行星'，只是尚未认清全貌。

Okay. So after Brian gave this talk, I thought, the essay is really a call for people to figure out what this thing is. Right? Like the the essay was essentially saying, we know there's this planet out there. We're not sure what it is.

我刻意在文中避免具体定义，只保留类似刚才给你的概括性描述。这篇文章旨在唤醒人们：首先意识到这种模式的存在——你不必对高管唯命是从。

I'm not I deliberately tried to say as little specific about what it meant in the essay, just the general description like I gave you. Right. And so the essay was a call for people to like, a, wake up to the existence of this thing. You don't have to do what your c level execs tell you. Right?

其次要共同探索其内涵。相互交流、尝试实践、验证有效性。即便现在收集所有创始人的经验，这份清单仍不完整。

And also figure out what it is. Tell us, you know, tell one another. Tell us try things. See what seems to work. I'm sure even now, even if you collected everyone's experiences about stuff that they could do as founders, it still wouldn't be a complete list.

没错。因为人们对公司运营方式的探索太有限了，大家都循规蹈矩，不敢尝试非常规做法。

Yeah. Because people have explored such a small subset of how to operate companies. Everybody just does the standard things. They're afraid to do anything weird. Right?

加之AI正快速改变世界，关于这个领域还有太多待发现的空间。

Plus the world's changing fast because of AI. So even if there's so much more to be discovered about it.

过去几天，我们一直在与创始人们探讨‘创始人模式’对他们的意义，听到了各种不同的故事。所以我们正在归纳一些主题。是的，但具体案例各不相同。

In the past couple days, we've been talking to founders about what founder mode means to them and hearing different stories. So we're finding some themes Yeah. But different examples.

这正是关键所在。没错。主题是我们最初就确定的。而那些具体案例，十年后我们可能仍在摸索。

That's the whole point. Yeah. Yeah. The theme is what we figured out in the beginning. The examples, we'll still be figuring out ten years from now.

他演讲中让我印象深刻的一点是，人们指责他事无巨细地管理，而实际上他只是想了解项目的进展。或许我们需要

One thing that really struck me in his talk was how people sort of accused him of micromanaging when he was really just trying to understand what was happening with the project. Maybe we need

消除对‘微观管理’这个词的污名化。也许微观管理并非

to destigmatize the word micromanaging. Maybe micromanaging is not a

完全是坏事，对吧？你或许可以界定什么算是过度干预，因为确实存在过度的情况。比如，当你的介入让某人工作表现更差时，这显然就过度了。

nice such a thing. Right? There is you could probably you could probably figure out how to define what's going too far, because for sure, there's going too far. For example, one thing we know is going too far is when you make someone do their job worse.

确实如此。没错。正是这样。

That's yes. That's true. That's

如果你以结果来衡量，这完全有可能发生。当你不懂某领域而别人是专家时，若你强行介入——知道典型例子是什么吗？平面设计。我曾见过一家设计公司的报价单：全权委托他们设计的费用相对较低，

true. If you measure by results, and that's certainly possible to do. If you don't know something and somebody else is an expert, and you get in there and say and you know where this is a classic case? Graphic design. There's this I saw this this graphic design firm had, like, their prices listed, and they had, like, you let us do everything, and there was this comparatively low price.

但若客户要参与设计过程，价格就高得多。明白吗？完全由客户掌控的话，价格更是天价。广告业还有个不成文的规矩——千万别让客户亲自出演广告。不是开玩笑。

You you get involved in the designs, and there's this much higher price. Right? Like, you control everything, there's this infinitely higher price. Or there's a there's a joke in or not a joke, a rule of thumb in the world of advertising, like, never let the never let the customer be in the ads. Not the the client.

说的是客户本人。对吧？因为他们总以为自己能演戏，其实根本不行。

The client. Right? Yeah. Because they think they're an actor, and they're just not.

确实不行。

And they're not.

你知道吗？是的。所以你绝对可以把事情搞得更糟。

You know? Yeah. So there's you can definitely make things worse.

嗯，是的。而且布莱恩确实说过，当他与人交谈时，就像，实际上我以前做过这个。你其实比我更擅长，但我还是想和你合作，不过你才是真正的专家。他确实说过类似的话，所以你是对的。

Well, yeah. And Brian did say, he's like when he talks to people, it's like, you're actually I've done this before. You're actually better at it than I am, but I still wanna I still wanna collaborate with you, but you're you're actually the expert. He did say something like that, so you're right.

史蒂夫·乔布斯是出了名的挑剔，对吧？但不知怎么的，他与乔尼·艾维建立了长期合作关系，一起创造了惊人的作品。这其中肯定有例外——我是说，如果有人会被指责对他人进行微观管理，那一定是史蒂夫·乔布斯。然而不知何故，天才设计师乔尼·艾维并不介意。

Steve Jobs is like notoriously picky. Right? And somehow he had this long relationship with Johnny Ive where they made amazing things together. There must be an ex I mean, if anybody was gonna be accused of micromanaging someone, it would be Steve Jobs. And yet somehow Johnny Ive, who's this brilliant designer, didn't mind it.

他似乎很享受与史蒂夫共事。所以这是个反例，明白吗？如果结果更糟，你可以看出这是微观管理。但那个案例中，无论是什么，都不是微观管理。

He seemed to have loved working with Steve. And so there is an example of there's an example of the other side. Right? You could see something's micromanaging if the results are worse. You can see that that, whatever it was, was not micromanaging.

所以你正在缩小范围，对吧？但也许有可能...或许我该坐下来想想，能否用一句话定义微观管理和非微观管理的区别。

So you're kinda narrowing it down. Right? But maybe it's possible. Maybe I should sit down and think if you could just define in a sentence what's the difference between micromanaging and not.

前几天晚上我和乔尼在会议上发言时，不是有人问为什么史蒂夫没让你烦？你为什么喜欢和他共事？他是怎么回答的？

When Johnny and I was speaking at the conference the other night, didn't someone say why didn't it did Steve not bug you? Why did you enjoy working with him? What was his answer?

对。没人问...不对，确实有人问了。可能是加里问的。

Yeah. He someone didn't. Someone didn't ask. He did ask came up. Gary probably asked.

好吧。

Okay.

他不是说没有因为他是...

And didn't he say no because he was

部分...他是在协作。

part He was collaborating.

他当时在与我合作。

He was collaborating with me.

所以或许关键就在这里。如果那个非老板的人——为老板工作的人——感觉这是协作关系，那就不是微观管理了。对，可能是这样。

So maybe this is the thing. If the person you if the boss if the person who's not the boss, the person who works for the boss, if they feel like it's a collaboration, then it's not micromanaging. Yeah. Maybe.

没错。这正是Brian昨晚演讲中提到的。你必须与人们建立伙伴关系。是的，这就不是微观管理了。

Yes. Which is what Brian said in his talk last night. You have to partner with people. Yeah. You're not micromanaging.

你是他们的合作伙伴。

You're partnered with them.

好吧。看来我们在这里有所领悟了。

Okay. So we're figuring something out here.

是的。就是

Yes. It's

必须让双方都感觉这是协作。我们正在给微观管理重新定义——共识式管理。

it's gotta feel to both parties like a collaboration. We're rebranding micromanaging. Consensual.

没错。不知怎么这话题变得有点奇怪了。

Yes. Somehow it's gotten a little weird.

这真是个重要话题，我觉得它引起了很多人的共鸣。出于好奇问一下——我们最近太忙都没空交流——这次会议期间你与创始人们聊得开心吗？从与会者身上学到了什么？

It's just such an important topic, and I feel like it resonates with so many people. Just out of curiosity, because we haven't we've been so busy. We haven't even huddled and talked about our our time at this conference. Have you been having a fun time talking to the founders, and what are things are you learning from the people here?

我刚了解到最令人兴奋的事之一，就是氛围编程(vibe coding)确实存在。因为我原本有点担心这可能只是种潮流。懂吗？就是那种人们希望它有效的一时风尚。

Well, one of the most exciting things I just learned is that vibe coding is a real thing. Because I was sort of little worried that vibe coding might be a fad. Right? It's just the sort of thing that would be a fad. People would want it to work.

这是那种人们会尝试很久然后说‘从来都不好用’的事情。我跟一家做后端技术的初创公司聊过，嗯。所有氛围编码者和传统手工编码者都在用他们的产品。所以他们清楚这些应用赚了多少钱——那些氛围编码应用确实赚得盆满钵满。

It's the kind of thing people would try for a long time and they go, it never works well. I talked to a startup that works on the back end stuff Mhmm. Used by all the vibe coders and, like, old fashioned hand coders. And so they know how much money all these apps are making. And the the vibe coding apps are making a lot of money.

真的吗？如果它们很赚钱，那就验证了人们是否会持续使用这种方式，对吧？

Really? And if they're making a lot of money, that's the test of whether people will keep doing it or not. Right?

对。

Right.

最新消息：我们现在可以确定氛围编码是真实存在的。之所以说是新消息，是因为这位创始人亲口说，如果半年前问他，他都不敢打包票。但现在他感觉数据足够支撑结论了——这玩意儿真的会流行起来。

So news flash, we know for sure vibe coding is real. And this is fresh news because this guy himself said if I'd asked him six months ago, he wouldn't have been able to say for sure, but he just felt like he had enough data now to say, okay. This is really gonna stick.

能向观众解释下什么是氛围编码吗？

Will you tell our audience what vibe coding is?

氛围编码就是让AI替你写代码。

Vibe coding is where you tell an AI to write the code for you.

等等，那...

Well, wait. And

说到这个...你甚至不需要会编程，用英语描述需求就行。

speaking of You're not even a programmer. You just tell it in English.

说到命名规范，你刚才提了手工编码（hand coding）。这个术语我们要用来作为对立概念吗？

Speaking of naming conventions, you said hand coding. Is that was that what we're gonna stick with in terms of what is opposite?

就这么定吧。

That up.

是啊。我本来想说，但用什么词来形容那些真正不用AI就能编程的人呢？

Yeah. I was gonna say, but what what is the right word for people who can actually code without using AI?

你知道，也许以后某天会有一个名字，比如'传统编码'之类的

You know, it'll probably later one day, maybe it'll have some name like Legacy Coding

或者就叫编码。对，很可能。

or something. Coding. Yeah. Probably.

那就太可怕了，因为如果真是这样我现在就成了传统码农。哦不，我绝对不会通过指挥AI来写程序。我喜欢写代码。我真的很享受写代码。

Which would be horrible because now I'm a legacy coder if that's true. Oh, no. I'm definitely not gonna be writing any programs by telling AI what to do. I like writing code. I like writing code.

你喜欢这个。我乐在其中。

You like it. I enjoy it.

好吧。

Okay.

我记得Replit的Amjad，就是那个很有氛围的编程公司负责人。对，我记得他给我做过早期演示，那时他们甚至不确定要不要做这个。只是个实验。我看着这东西源源不断生成的代码，感觉有点反胃。

I remember Amjad from Replit, who's like the big vibe coding company. Yeah. I remember he gave me a very early demo when they weren't even sure that they were gonna do this. It was just this experiment. And I was looking at all this code being churned out by this thing, sort of slightly nauseated.

对吧？就像...对吧？然后Amjad说别看那个，那是目标代码。这才是用英语写的源代码。

Right? Like, right? It's just and and Amjad said, don't look at that. That's object code. This is the source code in English.

明白吗？在场的程序员都惊呆了。但没错，我懂。

Right? And you guys, if any programmer was like, holy shit. But yeah. Right. I know.

源代码意味着什么？在旧世界里，源代码就是你的程序。目标代码是编译器吐出来的机器语言，你永远不该去看。除非在做某些特殊优化，否则查看它被认为是种坏习惯。懂吗？所以他说你现在看到的那个才是源代码，才是程序，但它已经不再是真正的程序了。

Source code what this means, source code is your in the old world, source code is your program. Object code is what the compiler spits out, the machine language that you never ever look at. It's considered bad form to go and look at it unless you're doing some weird optimization. Right? And so he's saying that thing that you're thinking of is the source code, is the program, it's not the program anymore.

这是编译器输出的内容。那边那个英文的东西，就是程序。有意思。我当时觉得特别奇怪，但确实。后来发现那是一个巨大山峰的第一个征兆，你懂的。

This is the compiler spewing stuff out. That thing in English over there, that's the program. Interesting. I was really weirded out, but Yeah. That turned out to be the first sign of a huge, you know, mountain.

是啊，哇哦。还有别的吗？你还发现了什么？我是真的很好奇。

Yeah. Wow. What else? What else have you gleaned? I'm I'm genuinely curious.

斯托克公司太厉害了。

Stoke is amazing.

哦，我们昨天采访了他们。

Oh, we interviewed them yesterday.

安迪。对，对。他是我最喜欢的人之一，特别低调。安迪特别低调，但那家公司，怎么说呢，简直不可思议。

Andy. Yeah. Yeah. And one of my favorite He's so low key. Andy's so low key, but that is, like, an amazing company.

他们就要...他们简直要统治世界了。对吧？他们的工程能力太强了。我几年前还专程飞过去拜访过他们。

They're gonna just they're just gonna take over the world. Yeah. Right? They're so good at engineering. I actually flew up to visit them a couple years ago.

没错。而且他每次都能兑现承诺。从不错过截止日期，就像台执行机器一样。

Yeah. And he's just delivered ever since. He never misses deadlines. He's just like this execution machine. Yeah.

我觉得他甚至没意识到自己是个多么厉害的创始人，因为他整天埋头搞火箭业务，不像在硅谷整天和其他创始人社交。他在某个试验场忙着让火箭升空呢，对吧？

I don't think he even realizes himself what an ass kicking founder he is because he's just in the rocket business up there, and, you know, he's not in Silicon Valley meeting all these other founders all the time. He's off in some test range making rockets take off. Right?

他告诉我们，几年前你看到的所有东西现在都完全不一样了。

He told us that all the things that you saw a few years ago are totally different now.

哦，确实。

Oh, yeah.

我一点也不会感到惊讶。是啊。

And I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah.

我们应该再去一次。

And we should go again.

好的。

Okay.

这次我想一起去。

And I wanna come this time.

真的吗？我总是对参观那种地方充满期待。

Really? I would be I'm always psyched to go visit places like that.

还有呢？还有什么？

What else? What else?

我惊讶于人们正在研究的项目种类如此丰富。

I was surprised what a variety of things people are working on.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

就在今天早上，我还和一个研究火车碳捕获技术的人聊过。

I was just this morning, I was talking to a guy who, like, cap does carbon capture off of locomotives.

不，那是保罗。

Nope. That's Paul.

那是保罗。

That's Paul.

是啊。哦，你还记得他吗？

Yeah. Oh, did you remember him?

我们昨天采访了他。好的。

We interviewed him yesterday. Okay.

他非常棒。

He's great.

顺便说一句，这不是计划内的。是的，我们刚才在引用所有那些和我们一起拍摄创始人模式短片的人。

Is this is not planned, by the way. Yeah. We were, like, referencing all these people that we did these short founder mode clips with.

好的。

Okay.

说到这个，你一定注意到了保罗是个多么开朗的人。

Talk about by the way, you must have noticed what a cheerful guy Paul is.

而且，信不信由你，尽管他已经很有成就了，我还是想到了一个他可以做的事。我当时说，你知道你应该做什么吗？然后他说，

And also, believe it or not, even though he's quite far along, I had an idea for something he could do. I was like, you know what you should do? And he said,

哦，哇。这真是个有趣的想法。

oh, wow. That's an interesting idea.

PG（保罗·格雷厄姆）。你知道你应该做什么。

PG. You know what you should do.

摇手指。

The finger wag.

摇手指。

The finger wag.

我要跑题了，但我必须告诉你们半小时前刚听说的事。听众们，我们现在正在与YC创始人一起的场外静修会上，我们的儿子们也在这里，虽然不参加会议但四处转悠。昨晚有些创始人在酒吧聚会时，一位保安人员走过来对会议组织者中的一位女士说：‘打扰一下，我觉得有问题。保罗和杰西卡的儿子在喝酒，因为我们儿子才16岁。’

I am going so off piste, but I have to tell you a story that I just learned half an hour ago. Apparently so for our listeners, we're at this retreat right now off-site with the YC founders, and our sons are here with us, not participating in the conference, but they're milling around. And last night, there was there was some of the founders gathered at the bar, and one of the security people came up to one of the women running the conference and said, excuse me. I think we have a problem. I think Paul and Jessica's son is drinking, because our son's 16.

那是保罗·格罗斯，因为

And it was Paul Gross, because

他看起来太年轻了

he looks so young

天啊。

Oh my.

来自Remora的。

From Remora.

他们以为他

They thought he

就是那是我们的儿子，而他

was just That was our son, and he

已经28岁了。

was 28.

他28岁。是的。没错。他确实如此

He's 28. Yeah. Exactly. Which He does

看起来很年轻。

look young.

确实。他长着一张娃娃脸。

He does. He has a baby face.

嗯，我们之前遇到过这种情况，因为有些创始人太年轻了，而像风投和运营铁路网络的老一辈人，就是不相信那么年轻的人。是的。我们听过创始人谈论他们让自己显得更老练的把戏。还记得有人说他们戴手表吗？因为年轻人都不戴手表。

Well, was there we because some of the founders are so young, and like old people, they talk to you like VCs and people running train networks, don't just don't trust anyone that young. Yeah. We've heard founders talk about tricks they use to seem older. Do you remember there were those guys who said they wear wristwatches? Because no one young wears a wristwatch.

哦。所以如果你戴手表的话 是啊。我们都戴手表了吗？呃 不包括你。你还年轻，C。

Oh. So if you wear a wristwatch Yeah. We all wearing watches? Well Not you. You're young, C.

列维。

Levy.

不。我不年轻了。我只是不戴手表。

No. I'm not young. I just don't wear a watch.

你有某种耳机，会每分钟向你报时对吧？什么都没有

You have some sort of earphone that, like, broadcast the time to you every minute. Right? Have nothing

那种东西。但我确实

like that. But I did

那会是个麻烦。那简直是反乌托邦。

That would be a menace. That would be dystopian.

确实如此。是的。确实如此。

It would be. Yes. It would be.

顺便说一句，保罗·格罗斯确实告诉过我们一个技巧，当人们质疑他的年龄时他会使用。他会深入研究信息，并表示：'我要比你们更了解我正在和你们谈论的这个话题。'

By the way, Paul Gross did tell us a trick that he did use when people were skeptical about his age. He does extremely deep dives into information and says, I'm gonna know more about what this is I'm talking to you about than you do.

没错。就像，你不可能被难倒。

Yeah. Like, you can't be stumped.

是的。我记得和他聊过这个。他说初次见面时人们总觉得他太年轻，但十分钟后他们就会想，嗯，这小伙子似乎挺懂行的。

Yeah. So I think I was talking to him about this. He said people think he's too young when they first meet him, but after ten minutes, they think, well, this kid seems to know his stuff.

完全正确。对。对。对。对。

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

正是。那么在我们结束前，对创始人模式静修会还有什么最后想法吗？

Exactly. So any last thoughts on the founder mode retreat before we wrap up?

我们还需要进一步明确。是的。我们正在收集很多关于它的故事，但还需要更多。创始人们看起来真的很开心。

We still have to figure out more. Yeah. We're getting we're collecting a lot of stories about what it is, but we still need to collect more. Founders seem really happy.

他们不

They don't

显然不仅仅因为这是个好的静修会。我认为总体来说，很多人的公司都发展顺利。对吧？就像，现在不是那种...这是个初创企业界的快乐时光。

do obviously, like, it's a good not just because it's a good retreat. I think in general, things are going well for a lot of people's companies. Yeah. You know? Like, this is not like, things are like, it's a happy time in the startup world right now.

经历过几次周期后...没错。我们都经历过一些...我特别珍惜这样的好时光。希望关税问题别让一切崩溃。

And having been through a few cycles Right. We've all been through some I can appreciate happy times. Let's hope tariffs don't bring everything crashing down.

我昨天向人咨询了关税问题。我不...我不记得了。

I was I asked someone about tariffs yesterday. I don't I don't remember.

嗯，保罗在那边。

Well, there's Paul.

是保罗。

It was Paul.

如果发生像股市崩盘这样的宏观经济事件，全球都陷入混乱，那总会影响到初创企业。

If there's some macroeconomic thing like the stock market crashes and everything goes to hell globally, that always affects startups.

对吧？确实如此。

You know? Does.

风险投资枯竭。这很诡异。比如，如果你观察加州的一批初创公司，会觉得形势从未如此好过。但如果你看看华盛顿特区的情况——那个金发哥斯拉把一切左右撕碎——又会觉得形势从未如此糟糕。哪边才是真实的？

Venture funding dries up. And so it's weird. Like, we've simultaneously got if you looked at cal if you looked at a bunch of startups in California, you'd think things have never been better. And if you looked at what's happening in Washington DC with, like, everything getting torn down left and right by this blonde Godzilla, you know, it would seem like things have never been worse. Which prevails?

老实说我不知道。我该乐观还是该沮丧？

I honestly don't know. Should I be optimistic or depressed?

这是个好问题。结束前能分享下你那个绝妙的比喻吗？前几天你提到，当我们收集创始人模式数据时，就像在探索边界并绘制...

That's a good question. Can we end by you sharing your you gave a you told me about a great metaphor the other day about as we collect data on founder mode, we're sort of discovering the edges and plotting Oh, it

是一座岛屿。

was an island.

一座岛屿。

An island.

是的。比如，我们知道在某处有个岛屿，对吧？但我们不清楚海岸线的具体形状。也不知道你能走到离边缘多近才会碰到海。

Yes. Like, we knew that there was an island at such and such location. Right? But we don't know what the coastline looks like. We don't know how far you can get to the edge before you hit sea.

对吧？海实际上是指那些微观管理他人或类似行为的人。是的，对吧？所以这需要些时间。

Right? Sea being actually micromanaging people or something like that. Yeah. Right? So it'll take a while.

这需要时间。但YC比任何人都更适合解决这个问题，因为YC拥有庞大的创始人群体。这里有大量的创始人，而且他们都愿意坦诚交流，因为他们彼此信任。这种组合是无敌的，没人比YC更适合找出答案。

It'll take a while. But no one is in a better position to figure this out than YC because YC has this huge collection of founders. There's a huge number of founders, and they're totally willing to talk candidly cause they all trust one another, you know. And that combination is unbeatable. No one's in a better position to figure this out.

是的。好的。我觉得这是个很好的结束点，希望我们能继续努力找出解决方案。

Yeah. Alright. I think that's a great place to end, and hopefully, we'll keep working on figuring it out.

我很感兴趣。

I'm interested.

谢谢，保罗。谢谢，保罗。

Thanks, Paul. Thanks, Paul.

谢谢邀请我，各位。

Thanks for having me, guys.

再见。再见。

Bye. Bye.