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三十多年来，玛丽·波普·奥斯本的《神奇树屋》系列一直将孩子们转变为热爱阅读、历史、神话和科学的人。
For more than three decades, Mary Pope Osborne's Magic Treehouse series has been turning children into readers and history buffs and mythology fans and science geeks and all of the things.
简单来说，杰克和安妮的冒险故事非常擅长激发孩子们的好奇心。
To put it simply, Jack and Annie's adventures are really good at making kids curious.
虽然等待了很久，但今天我们终于在SSR上给了他们应得的聚光时刻。
It's been a long time coming, but we are at long last, giving them the moment in the spotlight they deserve here on SSR.
今天的节目完全围绕《神奇树屋》展开，特别聚焦于系列中的第一本书《恐龙之前》。
Today's episode is all about Magic Treehouse with a special emphasis on the first book in the series, Dinosaurs Before Dark.
这本书于1992年出版，开启了一个畅销数千万册的系列。
It was published in 1992 and kicked off a franchise that would go on to sell millions and millions of books.
直到今天，《神奇树屋》依然充满活力。
The Magic Treehouse is still going strong today.
我简直不敢相信自己这么说，但在准备这期节目之前，我其实从未读过一本《神奇树屋》的书。
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I had actually never read a Magic Treehouse book before preparing for this episode.
我的嘉宾非常贴心地带我进行了一段她自己的时光之旅，向我详细讲述了这些书如何影响了她的童年。
And my guest was kind enough to take me on a bit of a time travel journey of her own, filling me in on all of the details of how the books were influential in her childhood.
我们聊了这个系列的起源、我们对时间旅行和历史小说的早期兴趣、树屋的向往特质、杰克和安妮作为接地气的主角、我们如何将MFA的经验应用到魔法树屋中，以及在玛丽·波普·奥斯本浩繁的作品列表中，哪些书如今最吸引我们。
We chat about the origin of the series, our early interest in time travel and historical fiction, the aspirational nature of tree houses, Jack and Annie as relatable protagonists, how we can apply our MFA experience to the magic tree house, and which of the books on Mary Pope Osborne's extensive title list sound most interesting to us today.
当然，我们还讨论了恐龙。
We also, of course, discuss dinosaurs.
我们录制这一集时我得了严重的感冒，所以请原谅我沙哑的嗓音和几处不太清晰的片段。
I had a pretty nasty cold when we recorded this episode, so please forgive my congested voice and a couple of moments of fuzziness.
希望嘉宾那只美丽又搞笑的猫出现在对话中，能为你平衡一下这种不适。
Hopefully, the presence of my guest's beautiful and hilarious cat in the conversation will balance that out for you.
让我向你们介绍这位嘉宾。
Let me introduce you to that guest.
谭凯特是一位从律师转行的虚构作家，拥有哥伦比亚大学创意写作硕士学位。
Kat Tang is a former lawyer turned fiction writer with an MFA in creative writing from Columbia University.
她的处女作《五星陌生人》讲述了一位在一款租借陌生人应用上评分极高的男子，通过扮演他人来发现真实的自己。
Her debut novel, Five Star Stranger, is about a top rated rental stranger on an app where he learns who he is by being everyone but himself.
这部小说入选了巴诺书店、苹果图书、《人物》杂志、NPR《周末版》及其他媒体的最受期待和必读书单。
The novel has made most anticipated and must read lists for Barnes and Noble, Apple Books, People Magazine, NPR's Weekend Edition, and other outlets.
它也被选为月度图书推荐。
It was also chosen as a book of the month pick.
Kat的短篇作品和漫画曾发表于《纽约客》、《电子文学》、《边缘》、《鸽子页》和LitHub等平台。
Kat's shorter writing and comic work has appeared in The New Yorker, Electric Literature, The Margins, Pigeon Pages, and LitHub, among others.
她大部分时间都在思考写作，有时她真的会动笔写。
She spends most of her time thinking about writing and sometimes she even writes.
你可以在Instagram上关注Kat Tang，或访问她的网站www.tangkat.com。
You can find Kat at Tang Kat on Instagram or on her website at www.tangkat.com.
我非常感谢Kat终于为我们带来了期待已久的《魔法树屋》这一期节目，并帮助我在2024年画上了一个如此愉快的句号。
I'm so thankful to Kat for finally giving us the magic treehouse episode we've been waiting for and for helping me to finish 2024 on such a fun note.
在我们谈论2024年结束之际，让我花一点时间向你们表达感谢。
While we're talking about the end of 2024, let me take a moment of gratitude for you.
今年，我休了五个月的产假，回来后发现你们都在这里等我。
This year, I took a five month maternity leave and came back and you are all here waiting for me.
有些人一直通过Patreon支持这个节目，有些人在我成为父母的过程中不时关心我，而你们所有人在我带着新节目回归时都准备好为我加油、点击播放。
Some of you kept supporting the show on Patreon, some of you checked in on me periodically as I transitioned into parenthood, and all of you were ready to cheer me on and push play when I returned with new episodes.
当我结束六年播客生涯中的第一次长时间休假时，我完全不知道会有什么样的期待，而能与你们如此多的善意一同经历这段时光，我感到无比感动。
I had no idea what to expect when I took my first extended break in six years of podcasting, and I can't tell you how much it means to have experienced it with so much goodwill from you.
自从我产假归来后，SSR节目一直在持续增长，我已经开始期待2025年将要到来的一切。
SSR has kept growing in the months since my maternity leave, and I am already looking forward to what's to come in 2025.
本着这种精神，请注意播客将进入传统的冬季休整期，但我不会离开太久。
In that spirit, please note that the podcast is taking its usual winter break, but I won't be gone long.
第307集将于1月14日星期二上线。
Episode three zero seven will drop on Tuesday, January 14.
这是一场与非常可爱的作家兼影响者露西·简·伍德的对话，我们聊的是杰奎琳·威尔逊的《女孩恋爱了》，我这才知道，这本书简直就是英国版的《旅行女伴》。
It's a conversation with the totally delightful author and influencer, Lucy Jane Wood, about Girls in Love by Jacqueline Wilson, which I learned is basically the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants of The UK.
在此期间，我希望你们能享受这一年最后的时光，好好休息、阅读，适度地庆祝节日。
In the meantime, I hope you enjoy the final days of the year, rest, reading, and a bit of holiday reveling.
我会在Instagram账号@s s r pod上分享最新动态。
I'll be sharing updates over on Instagram at s s r pod.
所以，如果想在我们1月14日回归播客前保持联系，就去那里找我吧。
So go find me there if you wanna stay in the loop until we return here on the podcast on January 14.
提前祝各位听众新年快乐。
Happy early New Year listeners.
我非常感激你们，祝愿大家在2025年一切顺利。
I appreciate you so much and wish you all the best in 2025.
现在，让我们开始节目吧。
Now let's go to the show.
欢迎收听SSR播客。
Welcome to the SSR podcast.
你可能知道SSR是小学时期‘静默持续阅读’的缩写。
You may recognize SSR as an elementary school era abbreviation for silent sustained reading.
但如果你不知道，也没关系。
But if you don't, that's okay.
在这里，它代表的是‘她读过的烂书’。
What it stands for here is shit she read.
每周，我们都会翻开一本曾经为
Each week, we'll crack the binding on an old school read written for
给儿童或青少年写的旧书，从成人的角度来聊聊。
kids or teens and talk about it from a kind of grown up perspective.
我们会痴迷于心动对象，重温中学时代的挫败感，偶尔对一位钟爱的作者说一声‘卧槽’。
We'll obsess over heartthrobs, relive the frustrations of middle school, and say an occasional WTF to a beloved author.
如果我们还没见过面，我是你的主持人阿里·霍夫卡塞克，自由撰稿人、终身书虫，热爱一切撒满彩虹糖粒的东西。
If we haven't met yet, I'm your host, Ali Hofkasek, freelance writer, lifelong bookworm, and lover of anything covered in rainbow sprinkles.
所以，找一个你最喜欢的阅读角落，倒上一杯葡萄酒。
So find your favorite reading spot and a glass of wine.
我们即将在这里的SSR播客中重温一些文学经典。
We're about to revisit some literary throwbacks right here on the SSR podcast.
嗨，凯特。
Hi, Kat.
欢迎来到SSR。
Welcome to SSR.
嗨。
Hi.
能来这里真是太好了。
So good to be here.
我会让听众知道，Kat 并不是一个人，她有一位非常可爱的猫朋友。
I will let listeners know that Kat is not alone and has a quite beautiful cat friend.
它可能会出现，也许会喵喵叫几声。
May or may not make an appearance perhaps with a meow or something.
这只猫比另一只猫更有可能在场。
Cat has more to be that at this that this other cat might be around.
所以我只是想让听众们知道一下。
So I just wanted to let listeners know.
我们是一个非常宠宠物的播客，所以不用担心。
We are a very pet friendly podcast, so don't worry about it.
你能向我们介绍一下你的小朋友吗，Kat？
But could you introduce your little friend to us, Kat?
是的。
Yeah.
房间里有两只猫。
There's so there's two cats in the room.
两只。
Two.
不。
No.
哦，抱歉。
Oh, sorry.
我是另一只。
I'm the other one.
抱歉让你失望了。
Sorry to disappoint you.
是我。
It's me.
我当时想，哦，有三只猫？
I was like I was like, oh, there's three cats?
不。
No.
不。
No.
然后这是朱诺。
And then this is Juno.
朱诺？
Juno?
哦，他没在表演，对，很酷。
Oh, he's not performing That's right rad.
朱诺是我们被告知是短毛猫，但那是骗人的。
Juno is we were told he's a short hair cat and that was a lie.
他不是。
He's not.
我从这儿就能看出来。
I can tell from here.
是的。
Yeah.
到处都是毛。
There's fur everywhere.
他有虹膜异色症，一只眼睛是黄色的，另一只是蓝色的。
He has heterochromia, so he has one sort of yellow eye, one blue eye.
是的。
Yeah.
他非常可爱，而且毛茸茸的。
And he's very cute and very fluffy.
他非常漂亮。
He's very beautiful.
所以正在收听的猫爱好者们，要知道我正有机会好好欣赏一只美丽的猫。
So cat lovers who are listening, just know that I am getting the chance to feast my eyes on a gorgeous cat.
也许你们会听到Juno的声音，但今天我们遗憾地不是来讨论猫的，不过也不算太遗憾，因为我认为在经历了这么多年没有谈论《魔法树屋》之后，我们的社区终于可以重新欢庆了。
And maybe you will hear Juno perhaps, but we are here sadly not to focus on cats, but to talk not so sadly because I think our community is rejoicing after all of these years of not talking about Magic Treehouse.
今天我们来聊聊《魔法树屋》。
We are talking about Magic Treehouse today.
我会暂停一下，让你们所有人鼓掌、欢呼，做你们想做的任何事，因为你们一直期待着这个话题。
I'm going to pause for all of you to clap and cheer and do whatever it is that you're going to do because you have been asking for this.
凯特也很乐意终于选择这个系列来聊聊。
And Kat has been kind enough to finally choose this series to chat about.
所以，凯特，告诉我你为什么选这个系列吧。
So Kat, tell me a little bit about why you picked this series.
如果你和它有什么个人经历，都可以说说。
If you have any personal history with it, all of those things.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
是的。
Yeah.
当我第一次听说这个播客以及你们在这里做的事情时，我就非常兴奋地想聊《魔法树屋》，因为它是我的童年最爱读物。
So the moment I was told about this podcast and like what you guys do here, I was so excited to do The Magic Treehouse because it's my ultimate favorite childhood read.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我读过这个系列。
I mean, I've been I read this series.
我觉得这个系列出版的时候，正好是我那时候，你知道吧？
I feel like it was coming out around when I was like I think it was like coming out, you know what I mean?
当我还是孩子的时候，新书一直在推出。
Like the new ones were coming out when I was a kid.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我总是去书店，满怀期待地等待最新的一本。
And so I would always go to the bookstore and be like, excited for the newest ones.
我觉得这激发了我对旅行以及探索不同文化的热爱。
And I think it kind of sparked my love for like travel and, you know, exploring different cultures and things like that.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
那是我第一个想到的书。
It was the first book that popped into mind.
我的意思是，像这本书和《鸡皮疙瘩》，这些是我小时候最爱看的书。
I mean like this and like goosebumps, I guess for my like go to reads as a kid.
是的，你还记得你特别喜欢它哪里吗？
Yeah, do you remember what you love so much about it?
我觉得是因为有很多方面。
I think it was the there's so many things.
我觉得其中一个原因是兄弟姐妹之间的关系，你知道，一个是有点书呆子气的孩子，另一个是充满冒险精神、积极主动的女孩，我很喜欢这种互动，因为我小时候没有妹妹或弟弟。
I think one was like the sibling relationship, you know, there's the one sort of like nerdy kid and then the like adventurous go getter girl and I like really liked that dynamic because I didn't have a younger sibling growing up.
我哥哥是在我八岁的时候出生的。
My brother was born when I was like eight.
所以你知道，我小的时候没有兄弟姐妹。
So you know, when I was younger, I didn't have a sibling.
然后那种冒险的感觉总是特别吸引人，你知道的，他们总是在去各种地方。
And then just like the sense of adventure was always so enticing, you know, they were always going places.
我住在一栋公寓楼里，周围都是其他孩子，我们就会假装自己在魔法树屋中。
And I lived in an apartment complex with these other kids and we would just pretend that we were in the magic tree house.
我们有一个小盒子，里面装着各种服装，我们会穿上它们，然后到处跑，假装自己在古埃及。
And we had a little box of different outfits that we would put on and then run around and then be like, we're in ancient Egypt.
天哪，有木乃伊！
Oh no, there's a mummy.
它要来抓我们了，你知道吧？
It's coming to get us, you know?
是的。
Yeah.
所以这构成了我童年中非常重要的一部分。
So this is like a formative part of my childhood.
当我发现这样的事情时，真的特别有趣，比如在录制一集节目时，经常有人会说，我不仅因为读过这本书才选它，而且这本书在我小时候就是我个性的一部分。
It is so fun when I find something like this out, like once I'm recording an episode, and it does happen fairly regularly where somebody will be like, not only did I choose this book because I read it, but this book was like part of my personality when I was a kid.
这让我特别开心。
So this makes me so happy.
你肯定想不到这件事。
You're not gonna believe this.
我的意思是，也许你能想到。
I mean, maybe you will.
我有时候也不清楚这是怎么发生的，但我小时候没读过《魔法树屋》，而我可是九十年代的孩子。
I I sometimes am not sure how this happened, but I never read Magic Tree House, and I was a nineties kid.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
这难道不奇怪吗？
Isn't that wild?
哇哦。
Woah.
是的。
Yeah.
我不知道这个系列是怎么绕过我的，听众们，这可是给你们上的一堂小历史课。
I don't know how it missed me, listeners, for for your little history lesson on this series.
第一本书于1992年出版，名为《恐龙之前》，这也是凯特和我为这次录制而阅读的那本。
The first book published in 1992, Dinosaurs Before Dark, which is the installment that both Kat and I read in preparation for this recording.
从那以后，这个系列一直定期推出新书。
And they've been coming out regularly ever since then.
我查了完整的书名列表，这简直是一场回忆之旅。
I pulled up the full title list, which is really just a walk down memory lane.
但看起来，从那以后每年都会推出一两本新书。
But it looks like there were like one or two new titles coming out every year after that.
所以，与我们之前讨论过的许多在九十年代和零零年代风靡的系列不同，玛丽·波普·奥斯本并没有每个月疯狂推出三本这样的书。
So unlike a lot of the other series that we've covered that were big in the nineties and the aughts, Mary Pope Osborne was not cranking out like three of these books every month.
很多这类书都像是流水线生产的，不断有新书推出。
Like a lot of these books were just sort of more of this factory vibe where there were constantly new titles dropping.
我喜欢她大约每年出一本的节奏。
And I kind of like that she was on this book a year roughly schedule.
这些书都很短，但她为它们做了大量研究。
And these books are really short, and she did a lot of research for them.
但我就是不知道我怎么会没读过。
So but I just don't know how I missed it.
我从来没读过《神奇树屋》。
But I never read Magic Treehouse.
然后我大学毕业后的第一份工作，正如许多听众知道的，是在出版《神奇树屋》的兰登书屋儿童图书部。
And then my first job out of college, as many listeners know, was at Random House Kids who publishes Magic Treehouse.
所以那时我身边到处都是《神奇树屋》。
And so I was very much like surrounded by Magic Treehouse at that time.
我当时在销售部门工作。
I was working in the sales department.
所以当时总是有很多关于他们为推广这些书籍而开展的不同项目的讨论。
So there was always a lot of talk about like the different programs that they were running to like promote the books.
玛丽·波普·奥斯本非常倡导识字教育和课堂学习，并积极推动教师与这套丛书建立联系。
And Mary Pope Osborne is such an advocate for literacy and learning in the classroom and connecting teachers to the series.
因此，我潜移默化地吸收了很多关于这套丛书的信息，但直到现在为了这次录音，我才第一次拿起她的书来读。
So I was kind of absorbing through osmosis a lot of the series, but I have never picked up one of her books until now for this very recording.
哇。
Wow.
所以即使你当时身处其中，也没读过吗？
So even when you were working surrounded by it, you didn't read?
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
没有，我可能偶尔翻过，你知道的，因为这些书一直在持续出版。
No, I may have like, you know, because the books have continued to publish.
现在也是吗？
Even now?
现在也是，我觉得。
Even now, I think.
是的，让我看看能不能找到——
Yeah, let me see if I can find-
天哪，我完全不知道。
Oh my gosh, I had no idea.
让我看看最新的书名是什么。
Let me see what the most recent title is.
哦，哇，猫。
Oh, wow, Cat.
什么？
What?
这太令人兴奋了。
This is very exciting.
所以最近出了很多本书。
So there have been a lot of books more recently.
2023年1月，推出了一部动物救援子系列。
January 2023, there's an animal rescue sub series.
因此，动物救援系列的第五本书于2023年出版。
So book number five in the animal rescue series came out in 2023.
这本书叫《课间犀牛》。
It's called Rhinos at Recess.
2023年还出版了《海龟王的时代》。
There was also Time of the Turtle King that came out in 2023.
今年早些时候，《狂野马匹的风之夜》出版了。
Earlier this year, Windy Night with Wild Horses came out.
哇哦。
Wow.
我们来看看有没有梅林任务系列的书。
And then let's see if there are any Merlin Mission books.
因为据我理解，梅林任务系列是原始系列的一个衍生分支。
Because Merlin Mission was kind of like my understanding is that that was a sort of of offshoot of the original books.
所以看起来她已经不再继续写《梅林任务》系列了。
So it does not look like she's still writing the Merlin Missions books.
最后一本《梅林任务》的书是在2016年出版的。
The last Merlin Mission book came out in 2016.
但当我还在兰登书屋工作时，确实有新书不断推出。
But yes, when I was working at Random House, there were new books coming out.
所以也许我曾经拿过一本翻过几页，但我对它没什么印象了。
And so maybe I like picked one up and glanced through it at some point, but I don't remember much about it.
也许因为我不是从小读这些书长大的，所以对角色没有那么强烈的共鸣。
And maybe because I hadn't grown up with it, I like wasn't as connected to the characters.
是的。
Yeah.
但今天准备和你聊天时，我特别感兴趣地了解了更多关于玛丽贝尔·奥斯本的事迹。
But I I really liked learning more about Marybelle Osborne when I was getting ready to talk to you today.
她是一个对旅行、历史和宗教充满求知欲的人。
She is somebody who really had this thirst for travel, learning about history and religions.
大学毕业后，她进行了一次环球旅行，结果在尼泊尔病倒，住院五周。
And she, after college, went on this world tour and ended up sick in the hospital for five weeks in Nepal.
据我所知，正是在那段时期，她开始真正萌生了想成为作家的想法。
And it was during that time that my understanding is that she like really started to think about wanting to be a writer.
但同时，她也有大量空闲时间去反思自己之前的旅行经历。
But also she had all this extra time to like reflect on the travel that she'd done.
但《神奇树屋》并不是她的第一次尝试。
But Magic Tree House was not her first rodeo.
她之前已经写过许多关于历史和神话的儿童读物。
She had written a lot of other books about history and mythology for kids.
她的作品取得了足够多的成功，以至于兰登书屋主动联系她，询问她是否能为他们构思一个系列。
And she'd had enough success that Random House approached her and asked her if she could conceive of a series for them.
她当时有很多不同的创意。
And she had like lots of different ideas.
她想用时间旅行作为主题，但一直难以确定时间旅行的具体机制。
She wanted to use time travel, but she struggled to figure out like what the mechanism for the time travel would be.
我找到一篇报道，里面列出了她在未成功的手稿中使用过的所有道具。
And I found an article that had a list of all of the devices that she included in the failed manuscripts.
好的。
Okay.
她曾设想过一个魔法地窖。
So she had a magic cellar.
嗯。
Mhmm.
她还设想过一个魔法画室，这听起来或许会很有趣。
She had a magic artist studio, which like could have been interesting.
一个魔法博物馆也可能不错，尽管我不太清楚什么是魔法博物馆。
A magic museum also could have been interesting, although I'm not sure what a magic museum is.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后我认为这可能是最糟糕的创意——魔法口哨。
And then I think this is probably the worst one, magic whistles.
只要你吹响某个口哨，它就会带你去古代中国之类的地方。
Just if you blow on a certain whistle, it takes you to, like, ancient China or something.
是的。
Yeah.
我很高兴他们否决了那个点子。
I'm so glad that they passed on that.
那可不会是个好主意。
That would not have been good.
然后她和丈夫出去散步时，看到了一个随机的树屋，那一刻她灵光一闪，于是向那户人家提出了这个想法，并就此展开了行动。
So then she like was out on a walk with her husband and they saw this random tree house and that's when it clicked and then she pitched that to random house and she ran with that.
我觉得这也很聪明，因为小时候我特别想要却得不到的东西就是树屋。
I think that's also so smart because as a kid, another thing that I was obsessed with and didn't have was a tree house.
我觉得每个孩子都梦想拥有自己的小树屋。
I feel like it's like every kid's dream to have their own little tree house.
所以这两者结合在一起——旅行与冒险，再加上树屋，简直完美。
And so those two things combined, like the travel and the adventure and then like the tree house, it's so perfect.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得，虽然我不确定你的年龄或出生年份，但我确实在一个以树屋为主题的流行文化环境中长大。
I feel like and I don't know how old you are or when you were born, but I feel like I certainly was raised in this era of like tree house oriented pop culture.
比如《小顽童》里的俱乐部，其实就很像一个树屋。
Like the Little Rascals had their clubhouse, which was really kind of like a tree house.
我觉得，我小时候看过的或读过的几乎所有虚构俱乐部，都和树屋有关。
And I just think almost every sort of fictional club that I grew up watching or reading about had a tree house associated with it.
所以，确实，拥有一座树屋有一种令人向往的特质。
So, yeah, there's sort of this like aspirational quality to having a tree house.
对。
Yeah.
我也是九十年代长大的孩子。
I was also a nineties kid.
所以，好吧。
So Okay.
感同身受。
Can relate.
是的。
Yeah.
我从来没拥有过树屋。
And I never had a tree house.
那种感觉就像是你总觉得总有一天爸爸会给你建一个，但最后就是没建成。
And it's like the kind of thing you think that maybe someday your dad will build, but it just never happens.
甚至当我真的进入过树屋时——至少在我的经历中，我不记得有任何朋友有树屋。
And even when you go into one or at least in my experience, I don't think I had any friends that had a tree house.
但我倒是会去玩那些建在地面上的儿童小屋。
But I would go into like sort of the play houses that were on the ground.
但它们从来都不如你在电视或《魔法树屋》这类系列中想象的那么酷。
And they're never as cool as what you think they're going to be based on TV or a series like the magic tree house.
你小时候对时间旅行类书籍有什么感觉？
What were your feelings about like time travel books in general when you were a kid?
你还记得小时候读过很多时间旅行类作品吗？
Do you remember reading a lot of time travel narratives?
我觉得我小时候没读过多少时间旅行的书。
I don't think I read that many time travel books growing up.
我想知道，还有哪些著名的时间旅行系列呢？
I like, what would do you know what another big time travel series would have been?
有一本书，虽然不完全是时间旅行题材，但是我小时候最喜欢的一本，叫《时间耗尽》。
One that I and this is, like, not necessarily time travel, but I one of my favorite books when I was a kid was Running Out Time.
你记得玛格丽特·彼得森·哈迪克斯写的那本吗？
Do you remember that one by Margaret Peterson Haddix?
我们在播客里聊过这本书。
Talked about it on the podcast.
如果你只是想在悠闲的下午一口气读完一本书，我强烈推荐。
Highly recommend if you just have like a chill afternoon and you wanna read a book in a sitting.
是的。
Yeah.
故事讲的是一个女孩发现她一直生活在一个类似主题公园的复制品中，那不是殖民地威廉斯堡，但理念类似——她生活在对美国历史某个时代的虚假再现里。
It's about this girl who finds out that she has been living in a sort of like amusement park esque recreation of I think it's it's not Colonial Williamsburg, but it's like a similar idea where she's living in a fake rendering of a past era in American history.
然后她必须逃离这个世界去拯救她的家人，因为有个坏人，天哪。
And then she has to like escape from that world to save her family because there's like a bad guy who's Woah.
是的。
Yeah.
这本书非常棒。
It's very good.
所以它不完全是时间旅行，但真的很好看。
So it's not necessarily It's time really good.
但它讲的是一个女孩类似在不同时代之间穿梭的故事。
But it's about this girl like kind of hopping between.
我觉得，当然，当我们还是孩子的时候，《回到未来》依然很流行。
I do think I mean, of course, Back to the Future was like still kind of a big thing when we were kids.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我觉得电影和电视剧里的时间旅行题材越来越多了
I feel like there's more time travel in movies and TV and
我读过一些历史题材的，是的。
I read like historical ones like Yeah.
天啊，什么？
What oh my god.
它们叫什么来着？
What are they called?
美国女孩娃娃系列。
American, the American Girl Dolls series.
我也很喜欢这类作品。
Like those types I was really into as well.
但那些并不算时间旅行，我的意思是，虽然我出生时那些时代早已过去，但角色本身并没有穿越时间。
But those aren't, I mean, those felt like time travel for me because obviously I wasn't born during those times, but the characters themselves don't time travel.
是的。
Yeah.
这太有趣了。
It's so interesting.
我们在播客里已经讨论过几次这个话题了。
We've talked about this a couple of times on the podcast.
我小时候特别喜欢历史小说。
Like, I loved historical fiction when I was a kid.
我读了非常多这类书。
I read so much of it.
但现在我几乎不读历史小说了。
And I barely read historical fiction now.
我也听很多人说过类似的经历，这与节目中许多嘉宾的感受产生了共鸣。
And I've heard a similar experience from like a lot of people that resonates with many of the guests who've been on the show.
我只是很好奇，这种转变是怎么发生的。
And I'm just kind of interested in like how that disconnect happens.
你的阅读经历也有类似的轨迹吗？
Do you have a similar kind of track for your reading?
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗，我攻读艺术硕士之前其实读了很多历史小说，但我觉得可能正是艺术硕士项目成了这里的共同因素。
You know, I actually read a lot more historical fiction before I did my MFA and then I feel like so during maybe it's the MFA that's the common denominator here.
现在我主要读的都是现实主义的现代小说，但我特别喜欢那些研究深入、能让我仿佛身临其境的历史小说，比如我最近读了《包法利夫人》，简直太棒了。
And then now I feel like I mostly just read sort of realist modern fiction, But I love like a really well researched historical fiction that makes me feel like, you know, transported or even like older texts like I read Madame Bovary recently and like that was just phenomenal.
我感觉像在读一本老式的八卦杂志。
I felt like reading an old timey like gossip mag.
我太喜欢这种感觉了。
Was so here for it.
哦，真酷。
Oh, cool.
我还没读过。
I haven't read it.
我的意思是，没错，艺术硕士项目确实会对你产生很多影响。
I mean, yeah, the MFA will do a lot of things to you.
而且，是的，我现在想，这可能也改变了我对历史小说的看法。
And yeah, that may I'm thinking now like, maybe that also has changed my relationship with historical fiction.
所以，正如我们讨论的，她原本有很多关于时间旅行如何运作的其他想法，但最终选定了这个树屋。
So ultimately, as we discussed, she had all of these other ideas for how the time travel would work, and she landed on this tree house.
从大方向来看，如果你很久没读过《魔法树屋》，或者像我一样从未读过，我来告诉你它是怎么运作的。
Big picture, if you haven't read magic tree house in a while or if like me, you've never read magic tree house, here's how it works.
你进入魔法树屋，打开一本书，就会被带到书中所描绘的那个地方。
You go into the Magic Treehouse, you open a book, and you go to the place depicted by that book.
我认为在《恐龙之前》这一册里，摩根勒菲并没有出现。
And I don't think Morgan LeFay, like, makes an appearance in this installment in Dinosaurs Before Dark.
那是后来的事了。
It's like later.
是的。
Yeah.
但当我阅读这个系列的整体历史时，我想摩根勒菲是树屋的主人，也是杰克和安妮所有冒险背后的推动力，因为她把书放在了书架上。
But when I was reading sort of like big picture history of the series, I guess Morgan LeFay is the person who like owns the tree house and is the driving force behind all of Jack and Annie's adventures because he puts the books on the shelf.
所以我真希望在《恐龙之前黑暗》里能见到他作为角色出现。
And so I kind of wish that I'd gotten to meet him as a character in Dinosaurs Before Dark.
但这就是我们后来了解到的关于这个世界构建的方式。
But that is what we learn later on in terms of like how the world is constructed.
让我们再多聊聊杰克和安妮。
Let's talk a little bit more about Jack and Annie.
就像你说的，他们是兄妹俩。
Like you said, they are the sibling pair.
他们相处得非常好，这很难得，因为我觉得有一种刻板印象是兄弟姐妹总是吵架，而他们关系相当融洽。
They get along really well, which is nice to see because I feel like there's this trope of siblings who are just arguing all the time, and they have a pretty nice relationship.
你小时候有没有特别认同其中某一个或两个角色？
Do you remember relating to one or both of the characters in a particular way when you were a kid?
是的。
Yeah.
而且，我以为摩根勒菲是个女人。
Also, I thought Morgan LeFay was a woman.
哦，
Oh,
她是吗？
she is?
然后她好像在和梅林打仗什么的。
And then she's like fighting Merlin or something.
再说一遍，我的记忆有点混乱。
Again, my recollection is somewhat crazy.
我说，让我查一下，因为我从来没读过她的故事。
I said, I let me see if I can do some research because I never read her.
我生活中遇到过自称是男性和女性的摩根。
I have Morgans in my life who identify as men and women.
所以这可能是我完全搞错了。
So that could be a total mistake on my part.
我相信你，作为这个系列的长期粉丝。
I believe you as a longtime fan of the series.
摩根·勒菲，一个女人。
Morgan LeFay, a woman.
就是这样。
There we go.
有点模糊，但还是存在的。
It's hazy, but it's still there.
我们正在实时核实事实。
We're fact checking on the fly.
是的，说实话，我可能更像杰克，是个谨慎的孩子，有点书呆子气。
Yeah, I think I probably related more to Jack honestly just being like a cautious kid sort of a nerd.
每次安妮跑去做什么事，我内心的一部分都会想：杰克，你在干什么？
Every time Annie ran off to do something a part of me was like Jack, what are you doing?
别去摸恐龙，那太疯狂了。
Don't go pet a dinosaur, that's insane.
但显然，他们需要这样的设定，或者作者做得非常好，平衡了他们的互动关系：一个人总是推动事情前进，另一个人则是理性之声，确保他们不会丧命。
But obviously they need that or the author did a really, she did a really good job of sort of balancing their dynamics so that you have one person who's always like moving things along and the other person who's like the voice of reason and make sure that they don't die.
现在我会说我自己更像安妮，但小时候我 definitely 更像杰克。
Nowadays, I would say I'm more of an Annie, but when I was a kid, I was definitely more of a Jack.
是的。
Yeah.
杰克是那个保护安妮的哥哥。
So Jack is the older brother who is protective of Annie.
安妮则是总是主动发起冒险的那一个。
And Annie is the one who is always like initiating the adventure.
在第一本书的背景下，她会说：‘我们去树屋吧。’
And in the context of this first book, she's like, oh, let's go on the tree house.
而杰克，就像你所说的，他很谨慎。
And Jack, like you said, he's cautious.
他很紧张。
He's nervous.
他不确定自己是否被允许。
He's not sure if he's allowed.
我以前 definitely就是这样的孩子。
I'm was definitely this kid.
我总是先寻求许可，而不是事后道歉。
Like, I would always ask for permission rather than forgiveness.
我觉得这也是Jack的处事哲学。
And I think that's kind of Jack's philosophy as well.
而Annie则肯定更倾向于事后道歉而不是事先请示，她可能根本不会在做事前征求任何人的许可。
Whereas Annie would certainly rather ask for forgiveness than permission and would probably never ask for permission before doing anything.
在我们今天聊之前，我做了一些研究，发现有很多评论试图挑这个系列的毛病。
It was interesting when I was doing some research before we jumped on today, I found a lot of reviews from people who are kind of trying to like find the flaws in the series.
有些人想发表一些热门观点，比如：我不喜欢魔法树屋。
People who are trying to have like the hot take of like, I don't like magic treehouse.
我可以在节目笔记里附上这些帖子的链接，供感兴趣的人查看。
And I can link these these posts in the show notes for people who are curious about them.
但有一位担心的家长提到，与同时期其他儿童读物系列不同，与那些在儿童文学中成名的其他角色不同，Jack和Annie从未因他们的行为而受到任何后果。
But one of the things that one like concerned parent said was that like, unlike other book series that came out during this time, unlike other characters that became famous in kid lit during this time, Jack and Annie never experienced any consequences for their actions.
她特别指出，我猜他们经常偷偷溜出家门。
And she specifically called out the fact that I guess they end up sneaking out of the house a lot.
但我们其实对他们在家里的情况知之甚少。
Which I I mean, we don't really know that much about what's happening at home.
当我们在这本书里第一次见到他们时，他们只是出去散步。
When we meet them in this book, they're just like out taking a walk.
我不知道他们是不是真的偷偷溜出过家门。
I don't know if they've snuck out of the house.
也许在后面的系列里有明确提到过。
Maybe they do that explicitly in later titles.
但我觉得挺有意思的是，当人们试图找这个系列的槽点时，问题居然是这些孩子不够完美——而我们恰恰喜欢这一点。
But I thought that was kind of funny that like in searching for a hot take about this series, the issue is that like these kids are imperfect, which we like.
我们不需要在所有儿童读物里都看到完美无瑕的行为榜样，但这个人却因为这些孩子从不为自己的行为负责而气得不行。
We don't need to see perfect examples of behavior in all children's books, but this person was pissed off because they never had to account for their behavior.
我以为他指的是他们在冒险时，比如在中世纪欧洲之类的环境下，那些行为该怎么算账。
I thought it was gonna be accounting for the behaviors of when they're on adventures and being children in, you know, medieval Europe or whatever.
但其实问题在于他们是否在没有父母许可的情况下外出。
But no, it's actually whether or not they go out of their house without parents permission.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
这个人显然有很多规矩。
Mean, this person really had a lot of rules apparently.
还有另一篇文章。
There's another article.
我不确定是不是同一篇。
I don't know if it was the same one.
还有另一篇评论在讨论杰克在冒险中的行为。
There's another review that was talking about Jack's behavior on adventures.
所以这确实更符合你之前说的。
So this does relate more to what you were saying.
而这本书，我们很少看到它。
And this book, we don't see it very much.
我不指望你能记得小时候读过的所有书。
And I don't expect you to remember all of the books that you read when you were a kid.
但我还是想提一下，因为我知道九十年代的书很可能就是这样。
But I did wanna call it out because I can see how a book from the nineties would probably have this.
我想，这位读者在成年后重读许多书时，注意到了杰克行为中的一种模式——他对待BIPOC角色非常糟糕。
I guess that this person in rereading a lot of the books as an adult noticed a pattern of behavior in Jack, where he is treating BIPOC characters very poorly.
而且孩子们经常习惯性地从别人那里拿走资源，带回到树屋。
And like a habit of the kids regularly just like taking resources from people, taking them back to the tree house.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
这简直是一种殖民主义的批判。
Is like a colonial critique.
知道。
Know.
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这简直就是我的日常生活，凯特。
Like this is welcome to my life, Kat.
当我试图让别人重新回到他们最爱的系列书籍时，这就是会发生的事。
Like this is what happens when I try to bring people back into their favorite book series.
真的很抱歉。
I'm so sorry.
真的吗？
Really?
我确实有必要提出这个评论，因为作为一个没读过这些书的人，我觉得这很有趣。
I do have to give voice to this review because as somebody who hasn't read the books, I thought that it was interesting.
这些书是90年代的产物。
And these books were a product of the 90s.
我相信玛丽·波普·奥斯本在创作这些情节时，至少并没有想着：‘没错，这将成为殖民主义的隐喻。’
And I'm sure thinking the best of Mary Po'Bosborn, at least with like going into these places and like taking their stuff, she wasn't like, yes, and this will be a metaphor for colonialism.
但如果你用极其批判的眼光来阅读这些书，而杰克总是做这样的事，而他只是一个来自宾夕法尼亚的白人小孩。
But if you're really reading these books with like a super critical eye, and Jack is the one doing that consistently, And he's this like white kid from Pennsylvania.
当然。
Sure.
我想这说得通。
I guess that that makes sense.
这确实是个有趣的讨论话题。
Like, that's an interesting conversation to have.
但我们其实没法深入讨论，因为我们没读完整个系列。
It's not really one we can have because we didn't read the whole series.
但听众们，如果你们记得有这种情况，我很想听听你们的看法。
But listeners, if that's something that you remember, I'd love to hear it.
但当然，我确信他们有时会在不同的地方和时代惹出麻烦，理应为此付出一些代价。
But yeah, I'm sure that sometimes they get into hijinks in various lands and times where they probably should get some consequences.
是的。
Yeah.
我想，他们正在树屋里创建属于自己的小小博物馆。
They're creating they're creating their own little museum, I guess, in the tree house.
我真的不记得了。
I really don't remember that.
或者小时候，我根本没有这样想过。
Or I didn't obviously, as a kid, I did not think of it that way.
我当时可能就想，哦，纪念品。
I was probably like, oh, souvenirs.
我喜欢纪念品。
Like, I love souvenirs.
你知道的。
You know?
我去大峡谷的时候，肯定会捡一块石头，其实我也不该这么做。
When I go to the Grand Canyon, I'm gonna grab a rock, which I also should not do.
你就像说，我也会从这个需要帮助的社区拿一些很棒的食物。
You're like, I too would take some cool food stuffs from this community that needs it.
对。
Like, yes.
我想回到我的家乡再尝一尝。
I'd like to taste it back back in my hometown.
没错。
Exactly.
这很公平。
It's fair.
所以《黑暗之前的恐龙》是第一本书。
So Dinosaurs Before Dark is the first book.
不出所料，杰克和安妮回到了恐龙时代。
And unsurprisingly, Jack and Annie go back to dinosaur times.
我知道这个标题在这方面具有很强的误导性。
I know that the title is very misleading in that way.
开玩笑的，这很明显。
JK, it's very obvious.
凯特，你小时候喜欢恐龙吗？
Were you a kid who was into dinosaurs, Kat?
哦，我小时候特别喜欢恐龙。
Oh, I loved dinosaurs growing up.
我觉得那时候我对恐龙和古埃及都很着迷，是的。
I feel like it was dinosaurs, ancient Egypt Yes.
还有收集羽毛、石头或邮票之类的东西。
And collecting things like feathers or rocks or stamps.
这可能算是另一回事，但这些都是我的兴趣。
That's kind of separate, I guess, but those are my interests.
我们为什么也对古埃及感兴趣呢？
Why were we also into ancient Egypt?
顺带一提。
Side note.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我觉得这 просто太迷人了。
It's just fascinating, I guess.
我也不知道。
I have no idea.
我很好奇，像年轻一代的孩子们是否像我们当年那样对古埃及如此着迷，因为我记得那时候这简直是个大话题。
I wonder if kids in like younger generations are as attached to ancient Egypt as we were because I do remember it being like such a big deal.
我觉得我们在社会研究课上连续四年都在学古埃及相关内容。
I think we had an ancient Egypt unit in social studies for like four years in a row.
这简直是我童年里不可或缺的一部分。
It was like such a staple of my childhood.
就像书法一样。
It's like cursive.
你每年都会重新学一遍。
You just learn it again every year.
你每年都会重新学一遍。
You just learn it again every year.
我不知道是不是因为当时有很有趣的视觉素材，或者别的什么原因。
I don't know if it's because there were like fun visuals involved or like, I don't know.
但我们对古埃及特别着迷。
But we we got very into ancient Egypt.
我不是那种特别喜欢恐龙的女孩。
I was not a big dinosaur gal.
我不知道为什么，小时候我似乎更倾向于那些被赋予女性化特质的事物。
I don't know why I think I tended to gravitate as a kid toward things that were like feminine coded.
至少在我那个年代，没人怎么引导我去喜欢恐龙。
And at least in my world at that time, like there weren't a lot of people pushing me toward dinosaurs.
有一段时间，我记得学校要求我们做一个关于恐龙的项目。
And at one point, I think I had to do a project in school about a dinosaur.
我们每个人都要选一种恐龙，我选了异特龙，因为我的名字。
Like we each had to pick one and I chose the Allosaurus because of my name.
但后来我发现，异特龙在我脑子里想象中，本以为会是一种很可爱、很有趣的恐龙。
But then I discovered that the Allosaurus is like in my head, I was like, oh, this will be like a very cute, like fun dinosaur.
我当时大概六七岁。
I was probably six or seven.
然后我了解到，异特龙其实非常可怕、凶猛，可能是最凶残的恐龙之一。
And then I learned that the Allosaurus is like really scary and mean and maybe one of the meaner dinosaurs.
别太当真啊。
Don't quote me on that.
但我记得当时得知这个消息后，我感到非常沮丧。
But I just I remember feeling devastated about that news.
所以我也不是特别喜欢恐龙的人。
So I was not a huge dinosaur person.
但我丈夫非常坚持要让我们的儿子成为恐龙迷。
But my husband is like very committed to our son being like a big dinosaur guy.
所以在读《恐龙之前》这本书时，我想，如果我们继续走这条恐龙之路，几年后我肯定还得再回来看这本书。
So in reading Dinosaurs Before Dark, was like, I'm definitely gonna have to come back to this book in a few years if we continue on this path of dinosaurs for will.
我从这本书中学到了几件事，这很有意思。
And I did learn a couple of things from this book, which is telling.
这正是玛丽·波普·奥斯本真正想做的：不仅通过她的书吸引孩子，还要激励他们去追随从书中获得的知识。
Like that's really what Mary Pope Osborne wanted to do was to give kids an inspiration for not just her book, but like to follow what they learned from her.
我找到了她的一句引言，她说：‘我希望，如果孩子们在我的书里读到某样东西，这不会是他们最后一次去探索它。’
I found a quote from her that was like, I hope that if they read about something in my book, it won't be the last time they investigate it.
所以我想，她希望通过这本书，孩子们能对恐龙产生更多兴趣。
So I guess she hopes that with this book, kids would wanna learn even more about dinosaurs.
在九十年代，他们会去查百科全书，或者我们小学时那个非常早期的互联网。
In the nineties, they would take it to like the encyclopedia or the very early internet, I guess, that we had when we were in elementary school.
是的。
Yeah.
我记得当时玩过一个关于恐龙的《魔法校车》CD游戏之类的。
I feel like I was playing like a magic school bus CD game about dinosaurs or something.
那就是我了解恐龙的方式。
And that's how I learned more about dinosaurs.
《魔法校车》真的特别棒。
Magic school bus was so good.
是的。
Yeah.
另一个有趣且富有教育意义的。
Another fun, like educational.
是的。
Yeah.
我父母一直认为，玩乐和自娱自乐可以，但必须要有教育意义。
My parents were all about like, can have fun and entertain yourself, but it has to be educational.
你可以在学习中获得乐趣。
You can learn and have fun too.
学习很有趣，凯特。
Learning is fun, Kat.
是的。
Yeah.
所以杰克和安妮第一次来到了这栋树屋。
So Jack and Annie, they wander to this tree house for the first time.
安妮非常兴奋，因为这是一次冒险。
Annie is all excited because it's an adventure.
听众们请见谅，我在翻页。
Excuse any page turning listeners.
我的书就放在我面前。
I have my book in front of me.
我认为这本书是我们播客读过的最短的一本。
I do think this has the distinction of being the shortest book that we've read for the podcast.
我可能是一次性读完的，这通常不是我能做到的，尽管这些书一般都挺短的。
I may have read it in a single setting, which I don't usually manage to do even though these books are generally pretty short.
安妮评论说，这一定是世界上最高的树屋。
Annie comments that must be the highest tree house in the world.
杰克说，我们不知道它属于谁。
And Jack says, we don't know who it belongs to.
这真是典型的杰克风格。
Just like classic Jack behavior.
当他们进去时，安妮说，里面全是书。
And when they get inside, Annie says, it's filled with books.
这确实让杰克彻底崩溃了，因为他非常热爱书籍。
And that really is what puts Jack over the edge because he loved books.
非常能引起共鸣。
Very relatable.
完全没错。
Totally.
这幅树屋的图画中，树屋非常高大。
This picture of the tree house, the tree house is very tall.
是的。
Yeah.
当他们说最大的树屋时，那个‘是的’就是这个意思。
When they say biggest tree house like that's Yeah.
我翻到这一页看到树屋时也吓了一跳。
I was shocked too when I turned the page and I saw the tree house.
我当时想，哇，爬上去得花好一阵子。
Was like, woah, that would take a while to climb.
这非常不安全。
It's very unsafe.
我不怪杰克会担心。
I don't blame Jack for being concerned.
当然，在这幅插图中，杰克在梯子底部，对安妮说：‘你为什么在上面？’
And of course, in this illustration, Jack is at the bottom of the ladder being like, Annie, why are you up there?
于是他们进入了树屋。
So they get into the tree house.
里面堆满了书，到处都是书，有封面布满灰尘的旧书，也有封面闪亮的新书。
It's filled with books, books everywhere, very old books with dusty covers and new books with shiny bright covers.
许多书里都插着书签。
And there are bookmarks sticking out of many of the books.
杰克说：‘我无法抗拒这些书的吸引力。’
And Jack is like, I can't resist the pull of these books.
我懂。
I get it.
他开始把书从书架上拿下来，翻开那些书签夹着的页面。
And he starts to pull the books off the shelves and open them to various pages where the bookmarks are sitting.
他翻开一本关于恐龙的书，说：‘我希望我们能去到翼龙的时代。’
And he opens a book about dinosaurs and he says, I wish we could go to the time of the pteranodons.
我希望你念‘翼龙’是这么念的，但别念成那种娇滴滴的恐龙发音。
I'm gonna hope that that's how you pronounce pteranodons, but not a dinosaur girly.
这时出现了一种类似《绿野仙踪》般的视觉效果，突然间，各种画面飞速掠过树屋的窗户。
And it is this almost like wizard of Oz esque visual where like all of a sudden there are different visuals whizzing past the tree house windows.
他们看到外面真的有一只翼龙。
And they are seeing a real live pteranodon outside.
这非常令人兴奋。
And it's very exciting.
就像他们被瞬间传送了一样。
Like they're just transported.
书第10页的原文是：树屋开始旋转。
And the quote from the book on page 10 is the tree house started to spin.
它转得越来越快，而周围的一切却完全静止不动。
It spun faster and faster than everything was still, absolutely still.
于是他们走下车外，去寻找恐龙。
So they get to wander out and find the dinosaurs.
你还记得小时候，那种仿佛从这些书中学习的感觉吗？
Do you remember when you were a kid, like, feeling as though you were learning from these?
那是一种主动的学习体验，还是只是次要的？
Did it feel like an active, like, learning experience, or was that secondary?
是的，我觉得学习体验可能只是次要的。
Yeah, I feel like the learning experience is probably secondary.
那纯粹是一场令人兴奋的冒险。
It was just like an exciting adventure.
当我带着现在对故事写作的了解重读这本书时，我想：哇，看看这个激励事件。
And as I was reading through this with my knowledge that I know now of story writing, I was like, wow, look at this inciting incident.
它发生得如此迅速。
It happened so quickly.
他们立刻就把我们带入了故事。
They just get us into it right away.
是的。
Yeah.
你有这两个对立的角色，我觉得特别有趣的是，这大概在第八页。
And you have these, you know, two opposing characters who like still, I just thought it was so funny that I guess this is on page eight.
安妮说她想看关于城堡的那本，而杰克想看关于恐龙的那本。
Annie is like, I wanna look at the one about the castles and Jack wants to look at the one about the dinosaurs.
他却说：不行，你最好不要看那个，因为我们不知道这些恐龙是谁的。
And he's like, no, you better not look at that because we don't know who these belong to.
但就在他说这话的时候，他已经打开了恐龙的书。
And then it says, but even as he said this, was opening the dinosaur book.
所以他一边说：不行，不行，别看。
So he's like, no, no, don't.
一边却说：不，但我的冒险要紧。
And he's like, no, but my adventure first.
对。
Right.
因为第二本书里他们真的去看了城堡那本。
Because the second book is literally like they go to the castle one.
但第一本是恐龙。
But the first one is the dinosaurs.
对。
Right.
每个人都必须翻页。
Everybody has to turn.
是的。
Yeah.
我很喜欢你现在以一个拥有美术硕士学位的作家的视角来读这本书。
I love that you're reading this book now with the knowledge of a writer a writer who's who has an MFA.
我不知道这本书里写了什么。
Like, I don't know what this says.
我们是两个拥有小说方向硕士学位的人，正在剖析一本只有80页左右的《神奇树屋》书籍。
We are two people who have achieved master's degrees in fiction, and we are dissecting a magic tree house book that is like 80 pages long.
这种说法还算客气了，实际上按正常字体排版，这本书可能只有20页左右，因为这里的文字太大了。
That's a generous way to say that it like, it's probably 20 pages long in normal text because the text is huge.
但我们正在拆解《神奇树屋》的写作技巧。
But here we are breaking down the craft of Magic Treehouse.
你对玛丽·波普·奥斯本的写作风格或她在这本书中的叙事方式还有什么其他印象吗？
What else struck you about maybe Mary Pope Osborne's writing or her general approach to narrative here?
是的，有很多方面。
Yeah, I mean, so many things.
我觉得杰克做笔记的那些部分很有趣。
I think that like the parts where Jack takes notes are funny.
这些笔记以一种独特的方式带来了幽默感，因为你能看到他记下什么、觉得什么有趣。
They like allow for humor in a way because you can kind of see like what he takes note of, what he thinks is interesting.
你知道，这就像是，第18页上的这部分到底是什么？
You know, it's kind of like a like, what is this part on page 18?
他说，不，我能认出这个词，但我也不知道怎么读，因为我只读过这个词，从来没大声念出来过。
And he's saying like, no, I can tell this, like, I don't know how to pronounce it either because I've only ever read this word and never said it out loud.
翼龙？
Pteranodon?
是的，当然。
Yeah, sure.
你知道，他说，哦，我觉得它大脑很小。
You know, he's saying like, oh, think it has a small brain.
所以他写下了‘小脑？’这样的注释，你知道，就是这些小细节特别有趣，或许还能让读者也想到：哦，我也可以对身边的事物做些笔记，对吧？
So he writes like small brain question mark, you know, like just these little things are so fun and kind of gets the reader maybe also thinking like, oh, I could take notes on things around me, you know?
对。
Yeah.
它邀请读者更积极地参与进来。
It like invites the reader to be more interactive.
是的，没错。
Yeah, yeah.
随着他们的冒险不断升级，你知道，风险越来越高，作为成年读者，你多少能猜到故事的发展方向，对吧？
And then as their adventure like ratchets up, know, the stakes get higher and higher and like, as an adult reader, you can kind of tell where it's going, right?
你会想，首先他们遇到了植食性恐龙，然后迟早会遇到霸王龙。
You're like, first they meet the herbivore dinosaurs, and then they're going to definitely at some point run into a Tyrannosaurus Rex.
对吧？
Right?
你就是觉得故事肯定会往这个方向发展。
You just kind of know it's gonna go there.
但对孩子来说，你会真的担心这些孩子会遭遇什么可怕的事情。
But as a kid, it's like you you're like in genuine fear that something really bad is gonna happen to these children.
作为成年人，你会想：好吧，他们不会在第一本书里死掉的。
As an adult, you're like, okay, they're not gonna die in book one.
没错。
Exactly.
我们知道后面还有很多本书。
We know there's many books coming.
我也喜欢杰克随身带着那本引发事件的恐龙书，不断拿出来参考。
I also like that Jack carries the dinosaur book that was like the inciting incident in his backpack and continues to pull it out and like refer to it.
这为读者提供了一个非常简单的线索：只要看到他们拿出书，就知道接下来要学习一些关于恐龙的真实知识。
So it allows for a very kind of simple cue that readers can see, okay, like we're pulling out the book, that means that we're going to learn some real hard facts about dinosaurs.
这也让孩子们不必成为专家。
And it allows the kids to not be experts.
它让读者和这些孩子角色处于同样的位置——他们不仅从周围发生的事情中学习，也从杰克从树屋图书馆借来的那本书中学习。
Like it puts the reader in the same position as these kid characters who are learning not only from what's happening around them, but from the book that Jack took from the library in the tree house.
我也很喜欢这一点。
So I liked that as well.
我还特别喜欢他做的笔记。
I also really liked the notes he was making.
那些笔记太有趣了，比如‘吃慢点’、‘嘴巴像剪刀’、‘毛茸茸的皮肤’、‘大脑小’、‘问号’。
The notes were so funny, like eat slowly, mouth like scissors, fuzzy skin, small brain, question mark.
这感觉非常真实，就像孩子会想：‘哦，一只可爱的小猫走过去了。'
It just felt like very true to the way a kid would think and like, oh, there goes a very cute cat.
我只是觉得这很棒，尤其是杰克被塑造成一个非常聪明、专注、认真的孩子。
I I just thought it was great, especially because Jack is presented as this like really smart, intense, serious kid.
甚至连他的笔记里都有问号。
And even his notes are like, he has question marks.
他对自己看到的东西也不是很确定，只是尽力把所有信息拼凑起来。
Like, he's not quite sure what he's seeing, and he's just doing the best he can to put everything together.
所以我喜欢杰克这一点。
So I like that about Jack.
而安妮只是在尽情享受乐趣。
And Annie is just, like, having a good time.
我们见到了好几只恐龙。
We meet several dinosaurs.
这都要归功于安妮，因为她想摸摸它们所有。
All thanks to Annie because she wants to pet all of them.
是的。
Yeah.
我喜欢第一页的那段，我简直看呆了。
And I like how on page I just lost it.
而且，找到这些内容非常容易。
Again, it's very easy to find things.
在第50页，她是不是疯了？
On page 50, is she nuts?
她在干什么？
What is she doing?
杰克心想。
Jack wondered.
杰克看着安妮从梯子上跳下来。
Jack watched Annie hop off the ladder.
安妮匆匆跑向翼龙。
Annie hurried over the over to the Pteranodon.
她正在和它说话。
She was talking to him.
她正在拍打着双臂。
She was flapping her arms.
她指着杰克、天空和树屋。
She pointed at Jack at the sky at the tree house.
她疯了，杰克想。
She is nuts, Jack thought.
然后在这页的后面，我们看到霸王龙正朝山丘走来。
And then later on that page, we see that the Tyrannosaurus Rex is coming toward the hill.
杰克感觉到地面在震动。
Jack felt the ground shaking.
我该怎么办？
What should I do?
杰克想。
Jack wondered.
我该逃跑，爬回恐龙谷，还是爬到木兰树上？
Should I run, crawl back into Dinosaur Valley, climb the magnolia tree?
我就喜欢这样。
I just like that.
他说，她疯了。
He's like, she's nuts.
就是，我这妹妹，我真的不敢相信我得跟她住在一起。
Like, this kid my this kid's sister, like, I can't believe that I have to live with her.
然后，当然了，她是对的。
And then, of course, she's right.
她通过呼叫直升机——恐龙直升机——来救他，把他空运出去。
She saves the day by calling the helicopter the dinosaur helicopter over to airlift him out.
没错。
Exactly.
接着就是封面，那个非常经典的封面。
Which then we have the cover, which is iconic.
就是杰克骑在恐龙身上的这张封面。
Like this cover with Jack riding the dinosaur.
即使你像我一样从未读过这些书，你也能一眼认出这张封面的出处，即使上面没有文字。
Even if you're like me and you never read these books, you would know exactly what this cover came from even if the words weren't on it.
所以我很兴奋能亲自读一读与之对应的场景。
So I was really excited to actually read the scene that goes with it.
当然，最后他们必须想办法回家。
Of course, in the end, they have to figure out how to get home.
他们回到树屋，找到了那幅宾夕法尼亚家乡的图片，正是这幅图让他们回到了家。
And they go back into the tree house and find that same picture of their hometown in Pennsylvania, and that gets them back.
当然，你知道的，他们还会经历许多其他冒险。
And of course, you know, they're going to go on lots of other adventures.
我想快速看一下书名列表，因为这些书实在太多了。
I wanted to glance at the title list because there are just so many of these books.
一共有超过一百个书名。
There are over a 100 titles.
这个系列在全球已售出超过1.43亿册，这真是
The series has sold over 143,000,000 books worldwide, which is
太棒了。
amazing.
这太疯狂了。
That's bonkers.
我知道。
I know.
确实疯狂。
It's bonkers.
而且人们还在争相阅读这些书，我认为这充分证明了她的方法非常成功。
And people are still eating these books up, which is such a testament to her approach, I think.
现在还配套推出了事实追踪手册，几乎每一册都有，更像是非虚构类的知识读物。
And now there are these fact trackers that go along with, I think, almost all of the installments and they're like more non fiction fact books.
所以你可以先读一本魔法树屋的书，再读与之配套的事实追踪手册，这样你离开时学到的知识甚至比安妮和杰克还要多。
So the idea is that you can like get your magic tree house book, get the fact tracker that goes along with it, and then walk away from the experience knowing even more than Annie and Jack learned.
但我翻看标题列表是因为里面有很多有趣的作品，我想着如果小时候看到这些，我会最期待哪几本。
But I was looking at the title list because there's so many fun ones and I was trying to imagine which ones I would have been most excited about as a kid.
我确实买了《骆驼宫的圣诞节》，因为我以为自己会有时间读它。
I did buy Christmas in Camelot because I thought I might have time to read it.
可惜我没时间读，但这里实在有太多有趣的作品了。
Sadly, I didn't, but there are just so many fun ones here.
你还记得你有没有特别喜欢的书名吗？
Do you remember if you had any favorite titles?
这个书单有没有勾起你的什么回忆？
Did this list jog any memories?
是的。
Yeah.
我刚才也在看背面的书单。
I was also looking at the list of titles at the back.
有好多我都记得。
There were so many that I remember.
我记得《日出时的海豚》，因为那时候我和周围的小女孩们都特别喜欢动物。
I remembered Dolphins at Daybreak because I think I was also really into animals as was, like, every young girl around me at that time.
《泰坦尼克号之夜》，我也记得这本。
Tonight on the Titanic, I remember that one as well.
《龙王之日》，因为那本书讲的是古代中国。
Day of the Dragon King, because that one was about ancient China.
我觉得小时候，尤其是那时候，关于中国的书很少。
And I feel like as a kid, especially back then, like there wasn't much about China.
所以作为中国人，你知道，那感觉特别酷。
And so being Chinese, you know, that was like pretty cool.
还有别的吗？
What else?
我不记得《星期四的感恩节》了。
I do not remember Thanksgiving on Thursday.
我想那本书大概是讲清教徒与美洲原住民相遇的故事，但我不是很确定。
I guess that would be about, like, the pilgrims meeting the native Americans, but I wasn't sure.
这本书现在肯定被认为是有问题的。
That one's definitely, like, problematic now.
对，没错。
Like Right.
是的。
Yeah.
听起来确实如此。
It sounds like it would be.
然后我想，那大概就是我开始不再读这些书的时候。
And then I think that was sort of around the time that I might have stopped reading these.
对。
Yeah.
我会对泰坦尼克号那期感兴趣，因为我觉得，像我们这种九十年代的孩子，都知道泰坦尼克号的事。
I would have been interested in the Titanic one because I think, like, again, nineties kids, we knew all about the Titanic.
我特别喜欢北极熊，所以肯定会对北极熊的故事着迷，哪怕都过了睡觉时间。
I was very into polar bears, I so would have been curious about polar bears past bedtime.
还有《晚冬的爱尔兰小精灵》，记得迪士尼频道那部关于小精灵的原创电影吗？我肯定想读这个。
And Leprechaun in Late Winter, like, remember the Disney Channel original movie about the leprechaun, I would have wanted to read that.
她真的是根据我们九十年代的兴趣来针对我们的。
She really was, like like, targeting us based on what we were into in the nineties.
有一本关于巴尔托的书。
There's a book about Balto.
我小时候很喜欢《巴尔托》这部电影。
I was into the Balto movie as a kid.
一个适合圣诞节的鬼故事。
A ghost tale for Christmas time.
我不知道我怎么会错过这些。
I don't know how I miss these.
你的猫真可爱。
Your cat is so cute.
谢谢。
Thanks.
他好像在打字，或者她想打字，我不清楚他到底想写什么。
He's trying to she's trying to type apparently, or he's trying I don't know what he's trying to write.
有时候他会替我写手稿。
Sometimes he'll write my manuscripts for me.
哦，他有想法。
Oh, he has thoughts.
哇。
Wow.
这是一个难得的时刻，尽管我停不下来地咳嗽，但我真希望我们能做视频播客，因为你的猫完全占主导了，我太喜欢了。
This is a rare moment when even though I can't stop coughing, I wish that we had a video podcast because your cat is fully taking over and I love it.
是的。
Yeah.
关于这只猫整体来说
On the whole cat
别用你的
Stop snacking me with your
是人猫，不是猫猫。
Human cat, not cat cat.
是的。
Yes.
我很好奇，你是如何回顾重新回到这本书的经历的？
I'd love to know kind of how you reflect on the experience of coming back to this book.
当然，这本书很短。
Of course, it's short.
它非常直接明了。
It's pretty straightforward.
但当你重新回到一本童年时对你意义重大的书时，感觉如何？
But what did it feel like to come back to a book that meant so much to you as a kid?
你有没有对它感到意外？
And were you surprised by it in any way?
它有没有让你失望？
Did it let you down at all?
没有，实际上我觉得至少这一本真的经得起时间考验。
No, I actually think it at least this one like really holds up.
我觉得这是因为篇幅很短，而我又特别喜欢短篇阅读，它居然在短短几页中塞进了如此多的知识、趣味和个性。
Like it was I think because it's so short and I love a short read, it managed to pack so much, you know, knowledge and fun and personality into these couple of pages.
我真的很佩服。
I'm sort of just impressed.
如果我要尝试写儿童读物，我会把这本书当作参考，看看什么才是有效的，因为即使作为成年读者，我也觉得这实在太棒了。
And if I was going to try to write, you know, children's books, like I would look to this as sort of a way to see what works well, because I think even as an adult reader, I'm like, this is so good.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得玛丽·波平斯·奥斯本简直就是一种证明，证明了找到适合自己的模式、拥抱它、并专注于自己的领域有多么强大——虽然我不一定认为这总是对的，因为你总想尝试不同的创意项目，探索各种可能性。
I feel like Mary Poppa Osborne is such a testament of like the power of figuring out the model that works and embracing it and staying in your lane a little bit, which like I don't necessarily think is always the right thing to do because you wanna be able to pursue different creative projects and try different things.
但她找到了真正适合自己的模式，并全心投入，把自己的人生都建立在了上面。
But she found a model that really worked for her and she committed to it and she has built her life around it.
我读过几篇对她的采访。
I read a couple of interviews with her.
我想她自己并没有孩子，但她真的觉得自己的读者就是她的孩子。
I guess she doesn't have any children of her own, but she really feels like her readers are her kids.
她说，如果没有杰克和安妮，也没有持续与她分享故事的读者，她不知道自己会做什么。
And she has said that like she doesn't know what she would do without not only Jack and Annie, but without the readers who continue to share their stories with her.
哇，我刚刚起了一身鸡皮疙瘩。
Wow, I just got chills.
我知道。
I know.
这不是很疯狂吗？
Isn't that crazy?
她经常去课堂访问。
She does a lot of classroom visits.
她非常致力于确保每个想读《神奇树屋》的孩子都能接触到这套书。
She is so committed to like, just making sure that all kids have access to Magic Tree House if they want to.
还记得吗，在我那些随机的销售日子里，她总是出现在各种销售机会和营销活动中。
Remember again, like in my random house days, she was always like around and available for different like sales opportunities and like marketing moments.
所以我想象她现在仍然是这样。
So I'd imagine that she still is that way.
我还想提一个关于这些书的其他观点，加入讨论看看你有什么看法：有人评论说，很多书更依赖于某个历史时期的神话传说，而不是那个时期的真实史实。
One other like hot take that I found about these books that I'll add to the conversation and see if you have any response to, somebody was commenting that like a lot of the books feel like they're more reliant on like mythology and sort of like mythology around a certain time period than they are around the facts of a certain time period.
所以这是基于恐龙时代真正发生过的事情吗？
So it's like, is this based on what actually happened during the dinosaur age?
还是基于孩子们想象中恐龙时代会是什么样子？
Or is it based around like what kids imagine the dinosaur age would be like?
我能理解这可能是种可能性，尤其是在其他一些书中，但我不知道这是否重要。
And I can see that could be a possibility, especially at some of the other books, but I don't know that it matters.
你怎么看？
What do you think?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我读这本书时确实有这种感觉，觉得这简直就是孩子心目中与恐龙一起的终极冒险。
I mean, that is sort of, I did get that feeling even from this book of like, oh, this would be like the ultimate adventure a kid would want with dinosaurs.
对吧？
Right?
我不太记得其他书的细节了，但也有类似关于忍者的书。
And I think I don't really remember the details of the other books, but there's like ones about like ninjas as well.
我觉得忍者实际上并没有像她描写的那样行事。
And it's like, I don't think ninjas were really acting the way that, you know, she portrays them to.
这其中显然有更多的细微差别。
And there's a lot more nuance there clearly.
但我认为，在那个年纪，这只是一个初步的吸引，让孩子对这个主题产生兴趣。
But I think at that time, it's just the initial sort of invite to get you interested in this as a child.
这是孩子能够理解和接受的层次，之后他们可以在此基础上继续学习，只要这些内容没有延续明显有害的刻板印象——我再说一遍，我很久以前读过这些书了，也许有，但至少对于恐龙这本，我觉得没必要这么夸张，孩子真的会这么写吗？
And this is the level of which a child can digest and sort of go from there and like learn more as long as this is not perpetuating like clearly harmful stereotypes, which I don't, again, I read this such a long time ago, might, but at least for the dinosaur one, felt like I didn't need it to be so like, is a kid going to write?
显然孩子不可能写出关于恐龙的这种内容，你懂我的意思吧？
Obviously kids not going to be able to write a dino, you know what I mean?
这只恐龙被驯化到什么程度了？
Like How domesticated is this dinosaur?
他可不是龙。
He's not a dragon.
而且即使他真的有龙，人们也不应该经常骑龙。
And even if he has a dragon, like people should probably not be riding dragons regularly.
对。
Right.
如果它们真实存在的话。
If they were real.
是的。
Yeah.
但这是一个非常宏大的故事。
But it's but it's such an epic story.
我还想问一下，你知道这些书的插画师是谁吗？
And I was also gonna say, do you know who illustrated these?
我发现，这些书的插画师似乎随着时间有所变化。
So what I found is that I think the illustrators have changed over the years.
让我查一下我 handy 的维基百科参考指南。
Let me pull up my little handy Wikipedia reference guide.
所以原始系列的插图由萨尔瓦托雷·穆尔达卡负责，直到2016年之后由A.G.福特接替。
So the original series was illustrated by Salvatore Murdaca until 2016, after which AG Ford took over.
我记得在随机屋工作时听说过萨尔瓦托雷·穆尔达卡这个名字，但我不知道他们为什么换了人？
So I remember the Salvatore Murdaca name from when I was working at Random House, but I didn't who knows why they switched?
我喜欢这些插图。
I like the illustrations.
你觉得怎么样？
What do you think?
我超爱这些画。
I love them.
我也从事视觉艺术，比如绘画和素描。
So I'm also I also do visual art, like I paint and I draw.
这些画实在太棒了。
And these are so good.
我喜欢它们真实地展现了这个世界的规模。
I like that they really show like the scale of the world.
我们之前开玩笑说那个树屋的插图，梯子长得离谱。
Like we were kind of joking about the illustration of the tree house and how huge that ladder is.
但我认为这反映了孩子们感知事物的方式。
But I think that speaks to the way that kids experience things.
树屋有没有那么高其实并不重要，因为对孩子来说，它就是那么高。
Like it doesn't really matter if the tree house is that tall because to a kid, it seemed that tall.
有趣的是，恐龙在插图中看起来并没有比孩子们大多少。
And interestingly, like the dinosaurs actually don't seem that big compared to the kids in the illustrations.
我觉得挺有意思的是，树屋显得特别巨大，而恐龙却相对和孩子们的体型差不多。
I think it's funny that the tree house seemed so outsized and the dinosaurs are, like, much more, like, relatively comparable to the kids.
没错。
Right.
而且孩子们觉得恐龙已经够大了，足够让他们做好准备去应对，但那个树屋真的高得云里雾里的。
And it's like, yeah, the kids think that they're big enough and, like, prepared to take on the dinosaurs, but, like, that tree house is really up there in the clouds.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
这些插图太棒了。
These these illustrations are great.
我喜欢远处总有四座火山在喷发的设定，因为很明显
I love how there's like four volcanoes going off in the distance at all times because clearly
显然，当周围有这么多火山喷发时，让他们在外面和恐龙嬉戏并不安全。
Obviously, that's not that's totally safe for them to be out frolicking with dinosaurs when there's all these volcanoes going off.
我很高兴终于读了一本《魔法树屋》的书，我可以把它收起来，等几年后我的孩子可能对它感兴趣时再拿出来。
Well, I feel good that I finally read a magic tree house book, and I can shelve this one for probably a couple of years from now when my child might be interested in it.
我们不能代表整个系列。
Again, we can't speak for the whole series.
我非常确定，这些书中有一些内容已经过时了，不仅基于我读到的一些评论，也基于这些书的标题。
I'm absolutely sure that there are things in these books that don't hold up, not only based on some of the reviews that I read, but based on the titles.
我确信这些书中有一些有问题的观点，尤其是当我们谈论那些我们从小接触的神话时，而如今我们知道应该以不同的方式去思考和讨论它们。
I'm sure that there were some problematic takes, especially if we're talking about like the mythologies of these time periods that we were raised on that we now know we should be thinking about and talking about differently.
但能仔细看看玛丽·波普·奥斯本所掌握的这种模式，理解它为何如此受欢迎，真的非常有趣，因为我懂了。
But it was really fun to like take a look at this model that Mary Pope Osborne mastered and see why it had such traction because I get it.
我明白为什么孩子们喜欢这本书，为什么他们如此喜爱杰克和安妮。
I get why kids love this and why they love Jack and Annie.
我真希望在散步时也能偶然发现一座魔法树屋。
And I wish that I could stumble on a magic tree house on my walks.
那一定会很棒。
That would be amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
对我们来说还不算太晚。
It's not too late for us.
也许吧。
Maybe not.
如果你找到了一座魔法树屋，你最想去哪里？
If you found a magic tree house, where would you want to go?
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
我不知道。
I don't know.
也许吧。
Maybe not.
我的意思是，因为现在脑子里想着恐龙，我觉得那会非常酷。
I mean, because dinosaurs are on the mind, I'm like, that would be pretty awesome.
你知道，就像一些超越人类理解的东西，因为我们只有骨头和化石。
You know, like something that is beyond, you know, human understanding because we only have sort of the bones and the fossils.
我们其实并不知道它们长什么样。
We don't actually know what they look like.
而且我们正在越来越多地了解到，有些恐龙实际上是有羽毛的，而我们以前以为它们有鳞片。
And we're learning more about the fact that some of these dinosaurs had feathers actually, and we thought they had scales, you know.
所以，能亲眼看到那场景一定会非常不可思议，我觉得。
So to see that would just be so incredible, I think.
是的。
Yeah.
我有点像安妮，因为我对参观城堡很感兴趣。
I'm a little bit of an Annie and that I am interested in going to see a castle.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但作为成年人，我知道城堡时代其实相当肮脏、污秽又可怕。
But the adult in me knows that like castle times were actually pretty gross and dirty and scary.
我真的很想回到七十年代，体验一下那时的生活。
And I would really be interested in going back to the seventies for a little while and just like experiencing life in the seventies.
哦，真酷。
Oh, cool.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
而且我也想说，城堡时代对女性、有色人种女性来说可能也不怎么样，你知道的？
And also I was gonna say like castle times maybe also not great for women, women of color, you know?
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
但我理解安妮为什么感兴趣。
But I get why Annie was interested.
所以，如果我们旅行时偶然发现魔法树屋，至少我们还知道想去哪里。
So should we ever stumble on magic tree houses in our travels, we at least still have an idea of where we'd like to go.
除了魔法树屋，凯特，你最近还读了什么书，会推荐给我们的听众吗？
Other than magic tree house, Kat, what have you been reading lately that you would recommend to our listeners?
是的。
Yeah.
我最近其实读了不少书，这真是太棒了。
I've actually been reading quite a bit lately, which has been awesome.
我现在有更多空闲时间了。
I have a little bit more free time now.
我读了珍·陈·何的《菲奥娜与简》，这是一部出色的短篇小说集，讲述两位女性从小到大的友谊。
I read Fiona and Jane by Jean Chen Ho, an amazing short sort of short story novel and stories where it's about these two women and their friendship growing up.
我真的非常推荐这本书。
And yeah, would just really recommend that.
我也喜欢这个封面。
I love that cover too.
是的，它真的很漂亮。
Yeah, it's so pretty.
如果有的话，我这里正好有视频。
Again, if there's video, I have it right here.
我可以展示一下。
Could show it.
不过话说回来，这本书的封面真漂亮。
But anyway, it's a lovely cover.
这也是贝拉·特里斯的书籍推荐，我的小说也在其中。
Also a Bella Triss book pick, which my novel was.
我最近还读了一本比较老的书，叫《革命之路》，作者是理查德·耶茨。
I also recently read this is sort of an older one, Revolutionary Road by Richard Yates.
我以前没读过，是朋友推荐给我的，这本书讲的是一对住在革命之路的夫妻之间的关系，他们之间的张力刻画得特别出色。
I hadn't read it before, my friend recommended it to me and just the tension between, it's about like this relationship with this couple who lives on Revolutionary Road and the tension between the married couple is so good.
而且结局相当震撼，绝对值得一读。
And the ending is kind of crazy and like so worth the read.
哦，我认识了一个叫达伦·施特劳斯的人。
Oh, I met this guy, Darren Strauss.
他哦哦，猫来了。
He oh oh, cat cat incoming.
他写了一本回忆录，叫《半生》，我最近一直在读，非常享受。
He wrote, he wrote a memoir called Half a Life, which I've really been enjoying.
而且，我连续五次赢了他下四子棋。
And, I also beat him at Connect Four, like, five times in a row.
所以我得给他点个赞。
So I owe him a little shout out.
这公平合理。
Just it's only fair.
是的。
Yeah.
哦，你能看到他的眼睛吗？
Oh, can you see his eyes?
他的眼睛真漂亮。
His eyes are so pretty.
等等，这太酷了。
Wait, that's so cool.
我以前从没见过这样的。
I've never seen that before.
是的
Yeah.
彩色的眼睛
Colored eyes.
真漂亮
So pretty.
天哪
Oh my gosh.
我会在节目笔记中包含你们所有推荐的链接
Well, I will include links to all of your recommendations in the show notes.
我总是引导我的听众去 bookshop.org 支持任何书店
I always send my listeners over to bookshop.org to support any bookstores.
我还会在 bookshop.org 上添加《Five Star Stranger》的链接
And I will also include a link on bookshop.org to Five Star Stranger.
太好了
Yay.
凯特，你的处女作，正如你所说，是Beltrus的精选。
Kat, your debut novel, which as you said, it's a Beltrus pick.
同时也是月度图书推荐，这可是个巨大的成就，最近获得了非常多的好评。
Also book of the month pick, which is like a massive deal and has just been getting so much great buzz.
恭喜你。
Congratulations.
你能给我们听众介绍一下这本书吗？
Can you tell our listeners about it?
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Sure.
这部小说《五星陌生人》设定在一个世界里，有一个应用程序可以让你租借陌生人来扮演你想要的角色。
So the novel Five Star Stranger, there's an app in this world where you can rent strangers to play roles that you want.
你可以雇人来当你婚礼上的伴侣。
You can hire someone to be your date for a wedding.
你可以雇人来扮演你的兄弟，不管出于什么原因。
You can hire someone to be your brother if you want to, you know, for whatever.
这部小说的主要情节是，一个年轻女孩被租来扮演父亲，而她并不知道他并不是她的亲生父亲。
And the main storyline in this novel is that there's a young girl who's the main character is being rented to be her father and she doesn't know that he's not her real dad.
随着她逐渐长大，她开始意识到，她所谓的父亲身上有些不对劲的地方。
And so as she's getting older now, she's starting to realize that there's something a little bit off about her quote unquote dad.
而当他一边处理工作，一边与她建立联系时，
And, you know, as he's going around sort of navigating his job and his connection to her.
他开始感觉到，自己对这个假女儿的感情，可能比他愿意承认的要更深。
He's starting to feel that maybe there's also sort of more of a connection with his fake daughter than he would like.
嗯，我书架上就有这本书。
Well, I am I have it on my shelf.
我一直想找时间好好读一读。
I've been looking for a treating it.
我是从‘月度图书’活动中选的这本书。
I picked it from book of the month.
我连续跳过了六个月没看，然后看到了你的书，心想：我一定要给它五颗星。
I'd skipped like six months in a row and I saw your book and I was like, I'm getting five star stranger.
我特别兴奋能和你聊天，而且我又喜欢上了这个封面。
And I was so excited to chat with you and I love the cover again.
对我来说，这简直就是艺术。
Like, that's like art to me.
我希望你 somewhere 把它装框挂起来了。
Like, I hope you have it framed somewhere.
它太有趣、色彩太丰富了。
It's so fun and colorful.
是的。
Yeah.
他们送了我一张超大的海报，但我住在纽约一个小公寓里，根本不知道该放哪儿，不过我还是留着。
I have this giant they gave me this giant poster, but like I live in a tiny New York apartment, so I do not know where to put it, but I have it.
那你先留着，也许哪天你有了更多空间就能用上了。
Well, you have it for maybe someday when you do have more space.
我为你和这本书吸引的大量听众感到无比兴奋。
And I'm just so excited for you and all the buzz it's gotten listeners.
我希望你能去读一读《五星级陌生人》，尤其是这个星期。
I hope you'll go check out Five Star Stranger, especially this week.
如果你假期有空，不妨在bookshop.org上买一本，和我一起庆祝凯特的首秀。
If you have some time off for the holidays, grab yourself a copy of bookshop.org and celebrate Kat's debut with me.
谢谢。
Thank you.
非常感谢你终于带我走进了魔法树屋，也感谢你今天和我聊了这么多。
Thank you so much for bringing me along finally to Magic Treehouse and for chatting with me about it today.
是的，当然。
Yeah, of course.
这真的让我觉得，如果不是因为这次，我可能永远不会重读《魔法树屋》，我真的很高兴我这么做了。
This is so like, I don't think I would have ever reread Magic Treehouse if it weren't for this, I'm so glad that I did.
很高兴我能成为带你重回这本书的人。
I'm glad I could be the one to to bring you back.
谢谢。
Thank you.
非常感谢您收听SSR播客。
Thanks so much for listening to the SSR podcast.
请访问我们的网站www.ssrpodcast.com获取节目笔记和其他信息。
Check out our website at www.ssrpodcast.com for show notes and other information.
别忘了在社交媒体上关注我们，获取有关未来剧集的更新、幕后花絮以及经典的读书讨论。
And be sure to connect with us on social media for updates on upcoming episodes, behind the scenes inside scoop, and some good old fashioned book talk.
我们在Instagram和Twitter上的账号是ssr pod，在Facebook上搜索ssr podcast加入群组。
Find us at s s r pod on Instagram and Twitter and search s s r podcast on Facebook to join the group.
如需直接联系，您可以发送邮件至hellossrpod@gmail.com。
To reach out directly, you can send me an email at hellossrpod@gmail.com.
如果您喜欢这个节目，能否订阅、留下五星评价并发表评论，将对我们意义重大。
If you're loving the show, it would mean so much if you could subscribe, leave a five star review and share your thoughts with a comment.
别忘了告诉您的朋友们。
And don't forget to tell your friends too.
与此同时，祝您阅读愉快。
In the meantime, happy reading.
下次再见，欢迎收听SSR播客。
I'll see you next time on the SSR Podcast.
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