教练通话：如何在无重大伤病的情况下应对三种不同距离的公关

我记得那个。

I remember that.

全是180度大转弯。

A 180 degree turns.

所以我觉得，要是选一条更直的路线，又不在5000英尺海拔，成绩肯定能更好。

And so I feel like, obviously, if I would have found a just kinda straight shoot course and it wasn't at 5,000 feet, you know, it would have been faster.

但我对这个成绩已经特别满意了。

But I was thrilled with that.

我当时就想，行吧。

I mean, I was like, oh, okay.

今年我肯定能突破1小时45分。

I'll definitely break one forty five this year.

这可是我唯一的目標。

That was, like, the only goal.

你确实做到了。

Well, you certainly got that.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得，如果你去海平面跑一条平坦的赛道，没有那些让人精疲力尽的180度急转弯——那些转弯会彻底打断你的节奏，让你不得不重新加速回到比赛配速，消耗更多体力。

And I think, look, if you went to sea level and you ran a flat course without those harrowing a 180 degree turns, which are gonna completely sap your momentum and have then you have to reaccelerate back up to race pace, which takes more energy.

光是海拔因素，你可能就能快两到三分钟，再加上转弯的影响，又可能再快个三十到四十五秒。

You'd probably get two or three minutes just because of the altitude, and then maybe another thirty seconds or forty five seconds for the turns.

所以，仅仅换到海平面跑一场更平顺的比赛，不涉及增加训练量、做更艰苦的训练，或者把体能推到新高度，你就能多出大概三分半钟的提升空间。

So you could be looking at three and a half minutes or so of of additional improvement just just for a faster race at sea level, not really thinking about, you know, having to run a lot more or do harder workouts or really push your fitness to a new level.

至少，你手里还有这一招。

So you at least have that in your back pocket.

等你状态差不多的时候，去海平面跑一次，成绩肯定能明显快很多。

You can always go down to sea level when you're in a similar shape, and you'll probably substantially run a lot faster.

感谢Altra对本播客的支持。

Thank you, Altra, for supporting the podcast.

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继续跑下去吧。

Stay out there.

特别感谢我们的《体能训练日志》，现在已在亚马逊上架，一推出就冲上跑步类新书第四名。

And a quick thanks to our very own performance training journal, which is now available on Amazon and debuted as the number four new release in the running category.

我一直特别喜欢手里拿着一本实体训练日志的感觉，每天写一写，能提升动力，也让你更了解自己作为跑者的状态。

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这本日志帮你聚焦真正重要的训练数据，忽略那些没用的指标。

The journal helps you focus on the training metrics that matter while ignoring those that don't.

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It also prioritizes a long term outlook so you don't take any shortcuts, and it maintains your motivation with strategic self praise.

我还加入了一些我个人表现最好的训练周的示例，以及关于预防受伤和力量训练的建议等等。

I've also included example training weeks from some of my personal best weeks during my career, tips on injury prevention and strength training, and more.

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Get your copy of The Performance Training Journal today on Amazon with the link in the show's description.

我也很好奇，Kiki，基本上来说，我们是不是随着时间推移改变了你的关注重点？

I'm also curious, Kiki, basically, like, we have changed your focus over time.

对吧？

Right?

就是说，我们从来没有哪两个赛季是完全照搬上一次的。

Like, we don't ever really have two seasons where we're doing exactly the same thing.

你懂的。

You know?

可能就是在做基础训练。

We're sort of maybe doing base training.

也许是在备战马拉松或者半马，又或者像现在这样，为秋天的一堆短距离比赛做准备。

Maybe we're training for a marathon or a half marathon or even right now, you're getting ready for a whole bunch of shorter distances this this fall.

那感觉怎么样？

What was that like?

整个赛季都专注于五公里这种距离，是不是有点奇怪？

Was it was it kind of strange spending an entire season focusing on a race distance like the five k?

这看起来是不是有点反直觉？

Does it seem counterintuitive?

我知道你最终的目标是跑马拉松，但我们之前还是在你的目标之间来回切换。

Because I I know your ultimate goal was to run that marathon, and and we still were kind of going all over the place with some of your goals.

对你来说，那段时间是什么感觉？

So like, what what was that like for you?

其实去年备战马拉松的时候，我参加了一场五公里的热身赛。

So actually, as part of the marathon training last year, I did a five k for a tune up race.

那场是我去年跑得最兴奋的一场比赛。

And I think that was one of the most exciting races I ran last year.

它一下子点燃了我的热情，我就把这份感觉藏在心里，心想：好，就这么办。

And so it kind of lit this fire and, I just tucked that away and I'm like, okay.

也许这就是我想追求的目标，因为我跑过21公里、26公里之类的距离。

Maybe that's what I wanna chase because I ran a 21, 26 or something like that.

我当时就想，哇，这离20分钟出头的5公里成绩只差不到30秒了。

I'm like, man, that's less than thirty seconds from like twenty minutes something five k.

这让我觉得特别兴奋，因为我又不是从小练跑步的，在我开始跑步之前，我跑得最快的1英里也就10分钟左右。

And that seemed really exciting to me because once again, I didn't grow up running and the fastest mile I ever ran before I started running was like a ten minute mile.

所以我就想，哇，这速度真的挺快的。

And, so I was like, wow, that seems pretty pretty quick.

我觉得，对，那真的让我很兴奋。

And I feel like, yeah, that was just really exciting to me.

所以，当我在琢磨接下来该做什么的时候，我就想，好吧。

And so, when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, I'm like, okay.

我想，也许看看自己能在五公里成绩上缩短多少时间，应该是我这个秋天努力的方向。

I think that maybe seeing just how much time I can shave off of a five k, should be the direction I go in for this fall.

是的。

Yeah.

特别激动，因为你知道，我们给你安排了多少场比赛？

Very exciting because, you know, how many races do we have scheduled for you?

我赶紧查一下。

Let me just check real quick.

接下来两个月内，我们安排了四场比赛。

We have, four races scheduled over the course of about two months.

你有两场五公里、一场十公里，还有一个不到一个月就要比的一英里赛。

You've got two five k's, a 10 k, and a mile that's coming up in less than a month.

你以前比过一英里吗？

Have you ever raced a mile?

那感觉是啥样的？你不是说五公里特别带感吗？

What what is it what is it like, you know, like you said, the five k was exhilarating.

我真盼着你比一英里，毕竟这种短距离比赛，我以前觉得五千公尺已经够长了。

Like, I I can't wait for you to race a mile, you know, because those much shorter distances I used to think the 5,000 meters was a long event.

那种距离在以前可算长跑了。

Like, that was a distance event.

那时候，跑一英里简直被捧上了神坛。

You know, that was put onto a pedestal.

但八百米、一英里、一千米、两英里、三千米这些，才是我们平时常跑的项目。

Whereas, like, the 800, the mile, the thousand, the two mile, or the three k, you You know, those those were your your normal races to to run.

而五公里呢，就觉得是特别特别长的距离了。

And then the five k was just, oh, this crazy long distance.

那现在距离更短的一英里，反而更让人兴奋吗？

So is it more exciting to to to even go down in distance for the mile?

我觉得是的。

I kind of think so.

主要是因为我从来没参加过一英里比赛。

And just because, no, I've never raced a mile before.

我跟朋友在本地跑道上做过几次计时跑，但真没比过一英里。

I've done like time trials at a local track with some friends, but I've never actually raced a mile.

这次还是公路赛，全程笔直，一冲到底。

And so, especially it's a road mile, and it's just a straight shoot.

所以全程没有转弯。

So there are no turns.

没错。

And, yeah.

不，没有。

No.

我真的很期待这场比赛。

I'm really looking forward to that.

是的。

Yeah.

这还是你本赛季的第一场比赛，正好可以热热身。

And it's your first race of the season, so it's a little bit of a rust buster.

你跑的是以前从没跑过的距离。

You're running an event distance that you've never run before.

所以咱们得有心理准备，这是一次难得的学习机会。

So, you know, we we should go into that eyes wide open that this is a little bit of a learning experience.

我们也不太确定该怎么配速。

We're not exactly sure how to pace this thing.

你以前从来没跑过。

You've never done it before.

当然，我们之后还可以再详细聊聊，但这次肯定是全新的体验，挺刺激的，也可能有点奇怪，不过我觉得你跑完这一英里后，反而会更欣赏中距离项目，毕竟它们真的很有意思。

And and, you know, we'll certainly talk about that a little bit more offline, but it it it's gonna be new, exciting, maybe a little different and weird to experience, but your my hunch is that you come away from that mile, I think, appreciating and having an additional excitement for those middle distances because they they sure are fun.

说真的，跑的时候简直疼得要命。

I mean, they they hurt like hell when you're doing it.

就像把手伸进一锅沸水里，但你马上缩回来。

It's like sticking your hand into a boiling pot of water, but you get out of there quickly.

然后你就晕乎乎地四下张望，天哪。

And then you're just dazed looking around like, oh my god.

我刚才是不是真的跑完了？

Did I just do that?

你再跟我多说说你后来跑的那场马拉松吧。

Talk to me a little bit more about the marathon that you ended up running.

那是去年秋天的事了。

So this was last fall.

那是哪一场马拉松？

What marathon was it?

你参赛前的目标是什么？

What was your goal going in?

我知道这是你第一次跑马拉松。

I know it was your first marathon.

你当时是设定了一个比较激进的时间目标，还是只是想看看情况会怎么样？

So did you have a an aggressive time goal going into it, or was it more of like a, let's just kinda see how this goes?

我就是单纯想看看能跑成什么样。

It was definitely, let's just see how it goes.

我记得我跑了波特兰马拉松，在俄勒冈州的波特兰。

I remember, so I ran the Portland Marathon and, in Portland, Oregon.

我记得你问我：想听听你的目标吗？

And I just remember you asking me, wanna hear what your goal is.

我一开始的想法是，别死在赛道上——这个我没写在邮件里。

And my initial thought, I and I did not type this in the email.

但我最初的想法就是别死。

But my initial thought was to not die.

嘿。

Hey.

你知道吗？

You know what?

对于第一次跑马拉松的人来说，这想法完全合理。

That's totally legitimate for a first time marathoner.

我当初也是这么想的。

I I I thought the same thing.

我平时训练的配速大概是每公里8分28秒，不对，是8分38秒40左右。

And so, but, we I've been training for, like, an eight twenty eight third or not eight twenty eight, thirty eight forty, pace.

所以我的目标配速大概是每公里3分45秒吧。

So I don't know like three forty five ish maybe.

我也说不准。

And, I don't know.

我当时就想，行吧。

I was just like, okay.

不过咱们不妨试试能不能跑得更快一点。

Let's see if we can go faster than that though.

因为到那时候为止，我参加的每一场赛事——不管是热身赛还是其他比赛——我的配速都比之前快了大概每英里十到十五秒。

Because every single race that I had done up to that point, at least for tune up races, and everything, I had been trending ten to fifteen seconds per mile faster.

所以我就想，好吧。

And so I was like, okay.

那不如把目标定在接近三分四十秒左右。

Well, maybe let's go closer to three forty, for that goal.

结果我真的跑出了三分四十秒。

And, yeah, I ran three forty.

所以

So

是的。

Yes.

你做到了。

You did.

你第一次跑马拉松就跑出了3小时40分53秒，我觉得这和你其他个人最佳成绩非常吻合。

You now, you ran three forty fifty three for your first marathon, which I think which I think lines up really well with kind of where your other PRs are at.

所以我觉得这确实很能反映你作为跑者的实际水平。

So I I I do think it's a pretty good reflection of your abilities as a runner.

你没有出现那种突然崩溃、没法跑完一场像样马拉松的情况。

You know, you didn't you didn't have this race where you kinda crashed and burned and, you know, you didn't you weren't able to put together a good marathon.

看到你能顺利完成，我真的很高兴。

So I'm glad to see you able to do that.

赛后恢复得怎么样？

What was your recovery like afterwards?

我知道第一次跑马拉松对身体来说通常是个不小的冲击，恢复时间也会比较长，毕竟这是全新的刺激。

Because I I know the first time marathon can usually be a little bit of a shock to the system, a little bit of a lengthened recovery timeline because it was so new of a stimulus.

所以之后你是不是走路都一瘸一拐的？

So were you, you know, hobbling around for a while afterward?

那感觉怎么样？

What was that like?

是的。

Yeah.

好几天都特别酸痛。

I was pretty sore for several days.

那时候我住在姑姑和姑父家。

So we were staying with my aunt and uncle.

他们住在波特兰郊外大概三十分钟车程的地方，家里楼梯特别陡。

They lived like thirty minutes outside of Portland, and they had these really steep stairs in their house.

我只记得第二天早上醒来，根本下不了楼。

And I just remember waking up the next morning like, I can't go downstairs.

所以那几天确实挺难熬的。

So yeah, it was a couple days of that.

到了第三或第四天，我终于觉得能正常走路了。

And then finally by like the third or fourth day, I was like, okay, can walk normal again.

不过，确实疼了好一阵子。

But, yeah, it was I was pretty sore.

就在腱鞘炎发作前两周，我脚还出过另一回事。

Well, then I had that whole thing with my foot, happened like two weeks before the tendonitis flare up.

那次疼了差不多整整一个月。

And so that was pretty sore for like almost a month.

除此之外，马拉松带来的严重酸痛，大概一周后就基本消失了。

But other than that like, yeah, I think overall like major soreness and stuff from the marathon was pretty much completely gone after a week.

所以。

So

是的。

Yeah.

这跟一般的恢复时间线是一致的。

That tracks with typical recovery timelines.

通常一周后你就感觉好多了。

Usually you feel okay about a week afterward.

我历来对马拉松后的恢复跑特别保守。

I I am historically pretty conservative with post marathon return to running.

前几周让你跑很短的距离，还告诉你别管配速，你有没有觉得有点烦？

Were you frustrated a little bit with those first couple weeks where I had you running very short, telling you don't pay attention to pace.

现在的目标不是这个。

It's not the goal right now.

咱们就先把节奏放轻松。

Let's just keep things easy.

你懂的。

You know?

我特别欣赏你的一点是，你特别擅长合理分配体力。

Because one of the things I'm very impressed by about you is that you you're really good at being strategic with effort.

你知道什么时候该收着点，根本不用在意成绩，就是每周轻松跑几趟，完全不在乎表现。

You know when to just dial it back to not really even care about those performances and really just kinda, you know, jog through a couple easy runs during the week and not really care about it.

而且你也很懂得在该拼命的时候全力以赴。

And then you're also, like, very strategic with putting in a lot of effort when it's necessary.

所以，连续几周几乎没怎么训练，你觉得很难熬吗？

So so was it hard for you to to have a couple weeks where you almost didn't feel like you were training very much?

倒还好。

Not really.

我其实还挺感激这段时期的。

I actually kind of appreciated it.

这跟马拉松训练有关，那段时间每周的周跑量都在破纪录。

And part of that was just with the marathon training and having so many just like weekly mileage PRs.

这周刚觉得是我跑得最远的一次，

And it was like, okay, like this is the farthest I've ever ran.

下周又变成了我跑得最远的一次。

And then the next week it was like, this is the farthest I've ever run.

连续这么好几周都是这样，说实话，真有点受不了。

And so like, stringing, I don't know, or so weeks of that together.

我当时就想，好吧。

I was like, okay.

这倒是个不错的休息。

It's a welcome break.

而且，从整体来看，我也明白了。

And, you know, also just looking at the big picture of everything and realizing, okay.

原来这一切都是有联系的，这样调整之后，下个周期训练起来会顺畅很多。

So this is how this goes together, and this is gonna set me up in a way where the next season is going to just go a lot smoother.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得最重要的是要看清大局，明白什么时候该拼命练，什么时候该适当放松。

I think I think above all, it's just important to see that big picture and understand there's a time and a place to train really hard, and there's a time and a place to not train very hard.

你刚才提到了里程纪录。

Now you did mention mileage PRs.

你说了好几次里程破纪录的事。

You mentioned multiple mileage PRs.

我们刚开始合作的时候，你每周跑大概二十五到三十英里。

You were running about 25 to 30 miles a week, before we started, working together.

现在呢？现在怎么样？

What is that like now?

你之前提到过四十、四十五英里。

You know, you mentioned forty, forty five.

我让你跑过的最高纪录是多少？

What what's the highest I've gotten you up to?

我觉得大概有五十二、五十三英里每周。

I think like 52 or 53 miles per week.

所以确实是这样。

And so yeah.

差不多翻了一倍。

About double.

今年春天我完成的上一个半马训练周期，里程差不多是刚跟你训练前那个半马周期的两倍。

So the last half marathon cycle that, I did earlier, this spring, that ended up being like, yeah, almost double the mileage of the half marathon build that I did right before I started working with you.

这还挺让人兴奋的。

That's kind of exciting.

想到自己训练了这么多，参加比赛时肯定会更有信心。

That probably gives you a lot of confidence going into a race just thinking about how much training you've done.

是啊。

Oh, yeah.

而且你想想，三周前你刚跑完18英里，现在跑13英里感觉轻松多了。

Well, and just how easy 13 miles feels after your know, three weeks ago, you just got done running 18.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

这在中距离项目里特别关键，比如10公里、10英里、半程马拉松。

That that's a big part of the the kind of the middle distances, you know, the, like, the 10 k, 10 miles, half marathon.

训练时跑过比比赛更长的距离，不仅心理上更踏实，距离本身也不会那么吓人。

It's really important to go over the distance in training so that not only are you mentally more confident, the distance isn't as intimidating.

你很清楚跑完这段距离需要什么，但身体上也得靠足够的里程来积累，让有氧能力跟得上，这样跑完全程根本不是问题。

You're you're very much aware of what it takes to run that distance, but you also physiologically just need the miles in your legs and that kind of an aerobic development so that, you know, accomplishing the distance isn't the real issue.

关键在于，我到底能多快跑完这段距离？

It's it's like how fast can I then do this distance?

所以对任何想跑出好成绩的10公里或半马跑者来说，把长跑距离练上去，是特别关键的一环。

So certainly for for anyone listening who wants to run a good 10 k to half marathon, getting your long run up to a good distance is a key part of that.

你对突破每周的里程纪录感兴趣吗？还是觉得五十英里左右就挺好了？

Are you excited about additional mileage PRs, or do you think you're you're good with the low fifties?

我觉得这还得看我具体在练什么。

I think like I think it also, depends what I'm training for.

我现在练五公里、十公里，还有跑一英里，跑进四十几、五十英里出头的感觉就很好了。

As doing five k, 10 k right now, and the mile race getting in the high forties, low fifties feels great.

但如果我要跑马拉松，那肯定得把周跑量再往上提一点，心里才更有底。

But, yeah, if I was doing another marathon, you know, getting a little bit higher than those low fifties, just to have like that extra assurance.

因为当你每周跑超过五十英里，二十六英里听起来就没那么吓人了。

Because when you're running over 50 miles a week, then, you know, 26 doesn't seem quite so long.

是的。

Yeah.

这也是个很好的观点。

That's another good point.

训练中的长跑一般很难超过22英里左右，你知道的。

You can't really run a lot longer than 22 ish miles in training, you know, for your long run.

所以你不能直接用同样的逻辑来应对马拉松，但可以通过每周总跑量来弥补。

So you can't really apply that same rule to the marathon, but you can get around it with your total weekly mileage.

明白吧？

You know?

跑量越高，你为即将面对的挑战所打下的基础就越扎实。

Like, the higher it is, just the more hardened you are for the effort that you're about to embark upon.

这真是个很棒的策略。

So it's a really good strategy.

不过我不想让人觉得我总是让你加大量跑量。

Now I I don't want folks to think that all I do is give you massive amounts of additional mileage.

我最近特别强调的一点是，做短距离的快速间歇跑，尽量保证像三十秒或者两百米这样的重复跑，平均配速要控制在六分钟以内。

One of the specific things that I recently pushed you on is doing short reps at a pretty fast clip and and trying to make sure that you're you're averaging, like, under six minute mile pace for certain, you know, thirty second or or 200 meter type repetitions.

你觉得怎么样？

How do you feel about that?

一开始猛冲上坡或者在跑道上全力冲刺，是不是有点吓人或者让人紧张？

Was this a little bit scary or intimidating to to really, like, let it rip up a hill or or on the track?

刚开始确实有点。

It kind of was at first.

我记得，第一次做那种快速上坡间歇，是在马拉松刚完不久。

I remember, because the first time I did those really fast hill reps was shortly after the marathon.

我当时就想，哦，明白了。

And I was like, oh, okay.

你说的是每英里配速。

Well, you said mile pace.

所以我心想，上坡要跑六分半左右，确实很难找到那个节奏，不过也就三十秒而已。

So you know, I'm thinking six thirty ish going up this hill and I'm like, it was kind of hard to find that pace but you know, it's only thirty seconds.

三十秒内很难精准控制配速。

It's hard to find a lot of paces in only thirty seconds.

所以我当时特别纠结，到底该跑多快？

And so, then I was like so worried about pacing like how how fast do I run?

是不是太快了？

Was that too fast?

是不是太慢了？

Was that too slow?

那次训练完，我和你聊了聊，才突然明白，算了，直接冲就是了。

And, yeah, then after that workout I remember and talking with you and just realizing, oh, okay, just go.

与其纠结配速，不如多关注发力和输出。

And, think more about like power and output versus pace.

从那次训练之后，我就更容易把这当成一种长距离的冲刺，只管加速，不再死盯配速了。

And, so after that first workout, then it was a lot easier for me to just think about it more as like almost like a long stride and just to go fast instead of trying to find a certain pace.

对。

Yeah.

这点也说得对。

That's a good point too.

关键是想清楚这场训练的类型，以及它真正的目标是什么。

Just thinking about the type of workout and what what the real goal is behind the workout.

我虽然写了配速，但那根本不是这场训练的重点。

Like, yeah, I wrote mile pace, but that really wasn't the goal of that workout.

重点是输出、力量、速度，就是用最大的力量蹬地。

The goal is output, its power, its speed, it's just exerting a lot of force into the ground.

如果你老盯着配速，可能根本达不到我们想要的那种强度。

And if you're kind of worried about pace and all that, like, you you just may not really be getting to that intensity level that that what we're looking for.

所以我的目标，其实是往配速的两个极端去努力。

So, yeah, my my goal has sort of been on either end of that pace spectrum.

你懂的。

You know?

我们会用里程来挑战你。

Like, we're gonna challenge you with mileage.

我们会让你跑长距离跑来挑战自己。

We're gonna challenge you with long runs.

我们还会让你做短距离上坡冲刺和快速的短跑间歇训练。

We're also gonna challenge you with short hill reps, short track repetitions that are just really fast.

如果你能同时做到这两点——短时间内全力冲刺，又能轻松地跑很长的距离，这些就是优秀比赛表现的基础，而真正的比赛配速恰恰就在中间。

And if you can do both, right, like, you can run really fast for short periods of time and you can run really long at easy efforts, you know, those are the building blocks of good racing performances, which sort of live in the middle.

你明白吗？

You know?

就是那种中等配速。

It's this this moderate pace.

你懂的。

You know?

即使是五公里的配速，在整体来看也算很轻松了，因为你其实能跑得快得多。

Even a five k pace is pretty moderate in the grand scheme of things because you're capable of running so much faster.

所以，Kiki，你过去两年的表现进步真是令人惊叹。

So, Kiki, your your progression of performances over the last two years has been pretty astounding.

你知道吗，我觉得你马拉松成绩突破了，第一次跑马拉松就跑出了很棒的成绩。

You know, I think you've PR ed in I mean, the marathon, you ran your first marathon, and and you ran a really good time.

你半程马拉松也提高了大概八到九分钟。

You PR'd in the half marathon by roughly eight or nine minutes.

你的五公里成绩缩短了多久？是两分钟还是三分钟？

You got your five k die time down by is that two minutes or three minutes?

我觉得是两分钟。

I think two minutes.

两分钟？

Two minutes?

这么短的距离能提高两分钟，已经很可观了。

That's kinda substantial in such a short distance.

你十公里也破过个人最好成绩吗？

Have you PR ed a 10 k?

你是说这次吗？

So Was this

就是那个奇怪距离的比赛，结果挺让人失望的？

that weird distance race that that was disappointing?

那次我跑了10公里，实际是6.1英里，但我还是算作10公里成绩。

So that was one I mean, I've run a 10 k and it was 6.1 miles, so I count it.

差不多嘛。

It's close.

而且说实话，那场是我最喜欢的赛事之一。

And, yeah, that one was actually one of my favorite races.

这是个本地比赛，我每年都参加，选10公里是因为我不喜欢他们那个半程马拉松的选项。

It's this local race and I do it every single year, and I do the 10 k because I don't like their half marathon option.

过去两年，我每英里快了大概三十秒。

And, so that one in two years, I took like thirty seconds per mile off.

我从平均配速7分50秒开始。

I went from, like, a seven fifty average pace.

去年九月，我拿它当马拉松的热身赛，跑出了7分20秒的平均配速。

And then last September when I ran it for, a tune up for the marathon, I ran it, with a seven twenty average pace.

你现在让我慢慢想起这些年来参加过的各种比赛了。

I'd now now you are starting to jog my memory of all these different races over the years.

是的。

Yeah.

那次比赛我觉得是你的一次突破，当时我们俩都有点意外，也开始重新思考你目标赛事的最终目标，毕竟这正是热身赛这么重要的原因——它能最真实地反映你的体能状态。

That was I I feel like that was one of your breakthrough races where maybe we were both a little bit surprised and and had to rethink our ultimate goals going into your goal race because, you know, this is one of the reasons why tune ups are so amazing is that they give you the greatest data possible about where your fitness level is.

如果你在热身赛里跑出了个人最好成绩，而你根本没专门为此训练，也没做减量调整。

And so if you're running PRs in a in a tune up race, when you're not actually training for that distance, you're not really tapering for it.

你也没做针对性的训练。

You're not doing specific workouts for it.

这恰恰说明你正朝着正确的方向前进。

It's just such a great sign that you're moving in the right direction.

你该给自己设定更有野心的目标了。

You should be a little bit more aggressive with your goals.

你明显在持续进步。

You know, you're on the improvement trajectory.

我就希望我的跑者都能达到这种状态。

And that's just the place where I want my runners to be.

你这让事情变得轻松多了。

And you make it kinda easy.

你每件事都做得特别稳定。

You're so consistent with everything.

太好了。

Cool.

谢谢。

Thank

不客气。

you.

所以，Kiki，我们快结束之前，聊聊你接下来的计划吧。

So Kiki, as we wrap this up, let's talk a little bit about what is next for you.

我们现在正处于一个我经常在播客里提到的训练阶段。

We are in a phase of training that I feel like I talk a lot about on the podcast.

我们现在正在进行一个速度训练周期。

We we're doing a speed cycle.

我们主要针对五公里进行训练。

We are focusing on five k.

你接下来会跑一场十公里。

You're gonna get in a 10 k.

你也会跑一英里，但主要会参加两场五公里比赛。

You're gonna get in a mile, but you're gonna do two five k races.

你能看出，这种训练对将来跑马拉松有什么帮助吗？

Are you able to kinda, you know, see how this would benefit a marathon in the future?

我觉得作为教练，我最重要的任务之一，就是让跑者明白：体能就是体能。

Because I feel like this is one of my big jobs as a coach is to get runners to acknowledge that fitness is fitness.

如果你在短距离上练得特别好，长距离的表现自然也会提升，因为能力是从短距离往上渗透的。

And if you can get really good in short distances, you're gonna improve your longer distance performances because it flows up from the shorter distances.

不是从长距离往下传导体能的，你的体能水平和速度，对跑者来说永远都是宝贵的。

It doesn't flow down from the longer distances, your fitness level, know, and speed is always valuable as a runner.

所以如果你能跑出很快的一英里，这其实就是一种资本，能在长距离比赛中派上用场。

So if you can run a fast mile, that is, you know, currency that you could use in in those longer distances.

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

我确实能感受到这一点。

I'm definitely seeing that.

那我们来看看。

So the let's see.

大概两年前，还没开始跟你训练的时候。

So it would have been just over two years ago, before I started working with you.

那年冬天我参加了一系列比赛，就是想看看自己当时的状态。

I did a series of races over the winter and, just to kind of see where I was at.

那时候我跑出了个人当时最好的五公里成绩。

And that's when I ran like a five kpr for that time.

那时候平均配速大概是每英里七分二十五秒。

And it was like, I don't know, a seven twenty five minute mile average.

之后不久，我就跑了个一小时四十八分的半马。

And then that's when I shortly after that I ran the, one forty eight half.

再往前看到现在，我最近为马拉松做的热身赛，五公里平均配速是每英里六分五十五秒。

And then, you know, going fast forward now to present time, just seeing that, okay, like my five k that I did for the marathon tune up was like a six fifty five minute mile average.

六个月后，我又跑出了一个一小时三十九分的半马。

And, then, you know, come in six months later and run, the one thirty nine half.

所以我真的能感受到，缩短短距离比赛的时间其实更容易，毕竟距离短嘛。

And so, yeah, I can definitely see like just how and I feel like it's actually easier, to shave time off of those shorter distances because they are shorter.

对我而言，心理上也更容易接受，比如：

And so for me, mentally, it's so much easier for me to wrap my mind around, okay.

只要能在短距离比赛中，每英里快个几秒，长远来看对跑长距离——比如再跑一次马拉松或半马——都会有帮助。

Like, if I can just shave even a few seconds per mile off of this shorter distance race, then it's going to benefit down the road when I want to do one of the long races, like another marathon or a half marathon or whatever.

所以没错。

And so yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得有意思的地方在于，确实，跑短距离项目更容易提速一点，因为技术性更强。

I I think the interesting part of that is that one of one of the things is, yes, not only is it easier to run a little bit faster in a shorter event because it's a little bit more technical.

你能更细致地思考比赛的每一个环节，以及自己是怎么执行的。

You get to really think about every part of the race and how you executed it.

而且，整场比赛里到处都有提升的空间，一些小的决定对最终成绩的影响可能很大。

And, you know, like, there's opportunities for improvement throughout the entire race and small decisions can make pretty big impacts on your overall fitness.

抱歉，我是说对你的最终完赛时间影响很大。

I'm sorry, your overall finish time.

马拉松也是同样的道理，但你根本没法频繁到足以看到这种进步。

Now the same thing is true for say a marathon, but you just you can't do it enough to see those kinds of improvements.

这就像是为了考研究生天天做模拟题。

It's sort of like you're taking a practice exam to get into graduate school.

你每天都能做一套模拟题，每次都能进步一点点。

You could take a practice exam every day and get a little bit better every time.

马拉松可没法这么频繁地跑。

You can't do that with say a marathon.

你得等上四个月、五个月甚至六个月才能跑一次。

You have to wait like four, five, six months to do it.

所以，你确实能从这些中距离比赛中看到明显的进步。

So you're you're definitely seeing the progress of doing more of these middle distance races.

而且这样能让你的身体始终保持在高水准状态，一旦转去跑长距离，反而会觉得轻松一点，因为你已经习惯了更快的节奏。

And then it kinda just keeps your your abilities firing at a really high level so that as soon as you go and step into a longer race, it almost feels a little bit easier just because you're you're you're used to such a faster pace.

你知道，训练内容可能要难得多。

You know, the the workouts are potentially a lot more challenging.

一般人总觉得跑个节奏跑比在跑道上做间歇训练要轻松。

I You tend to think it's easier to go do a tempo run than it is to do a kind of an interval workout on the track.

至少在我看来，间歇训练压力大得多。

You know, that's a little bit more stressful, at least in my mind.

所以，马拉松的训练反而可能没那么累。

So the training for a marathon might be a little bit easier.

你距离第一次跑一英里比赛只剩一个月了，有没有什么担心的？比如怎么控制配速？

Seeing as you are one month away from your first mile race, do you have any, like, concerns about racing this distance or, like, how to pace it?

我知道这事儿根本没法提前规划。

Because I I know it's, like, it's impossible.

通常我们讨论的都是跑几英里时怎么分配速度。

Usually, you talk about your pacing over the course of miles.

你懂的。

You know?

我想第一英里跑慢点，后面再慢慢加速。

Like, I want my first mile to be this, and then I'll I'll get a little bit faster.

可这一英里里面，到底该怎么分段呢？

But, like, how do you break that up in one mile?

这让你觉得特别紧张吗？

Is is that worrying to you?

有一点吧。

A little bit.

我的意思是，虽然我从来没跑过这个距离。

I mean, just because, yeah, I've never done it.

而且我还想到，比赛那天 probably 会特别热。

And then also, I realized it's probably gonna be really hot.

八月份的晚上比赛，气温肯定不低。

It's a it's an evening race in August.

所以。

So

是啊。

Yeah.

8月7号你要跑一英里，天气确实会很热。

August 7, you are you are racing a a mile.

那天肯定热得不行。

It it is gonna be hot.

我的建议是，你就当气温只有25度来跑。

What I would say is, you know, pretend it's 50 degrees.

就当天气凉快吧。

Pretend it's cool.

等你真觉得热的时候，比赛也就剩两到三分钟了，其实你只用忍受很短一段时间。

By the time you're hot, you're gonna have, like, two minutes to go in the race or three minutes, and, you know, you're not you're only gonna suffer for a very brief period of time.

那会儿确实会挺难受，但时间不长。

It it would just be somewhat intense for that.

另外，对任何想跑一英里、两英里，甚至八百米或半英里的朋友来说，在路上跑这些短距离其实比在跑道上更难，因为在跑道上，你可以把距离切成一小段一小段来跑。

And I will have to say too, for for anyone who might be, like, interested in in racing, say, a mile or a two mile, even an 800 or half mile, it is a little bit harder to run these short distances on the road because what happens on the track is that you break the distance down into these tiny little segments.

比如跑一英里，每圈四百米你都能看到计时，这样就能很好地控制配速，至少保持相对均匀的速度。

So you're racing the mile, you can get a 400 meter split, you know, every lap and and really dial in, you know, your even pacing or mostly even pacing.

而且你还能拿到非整圈的分段成绩。

And then, of course, you can get, like, off distance splits.

比如有朋友在六百米或一千米处等着，帮你喊出当前的用时。

So you could have a friend at the at the 600 or thousand meter mark, and they're yelling out your split.

如果你知道自己目标时间对应的配速，就能清楚地判断自己是快了还是慢了，随时调整。

And if, you know, you kinda know what your splits should be based on your goal time, you can really start fine tuning how close you are or or if you're far away.

这种节奏上的小调整，能让你更接近目标，是提升短距离表现的绝佳方式，因为关键就在于学会掌控自己的配速。

And those little changes to pace and how they get you a little bit closer to your goal are a really nice way of improving in these shorter distances because a big part of it is just learning how to pace yourself.

我想这在任何比赛中都成立，但在一英里跑中尤其明显——你要是前400米多冲了两秒，心率立马飙升，还没跑一半就已经在走下坡路了，因为你起步实在太猛了。

I mean, I guess that's true for every race, but it's a little bit more, you know, the stakes are higher in a mile because you could go out a couple seconds too fast over the first 400 meters, and your heart rate is just through the roof, and you're already, like, you know, kind of on the route to slowing down because you have just gone out so incredibly fast.

这确实是个不断学习的过程，但我相信你会爱上它的。

So it's it's definitely a learning experience, but I think you're gonna love it.

一定会特别有意思。

It's gonna be really fun.

好了，Kiki。

Alright, Kiki.

最后一个问题是。

Last question.

我想让你回顾一下我们这两年相处的时光，看看你一路上学到了什么。

I kinda want you to think about the whole two years of of our of our time together, what you've learned along the way.

对所有正在听的朋友们来说，这也是在告诉你，跑步这件事，你究竟能做到什么程度，能变得多好。

For anyone listening who is curious about what they can accomplish with their running, how how good they might be able to become.

你有什么建议吗？

What are some suggestions?

你进步真的很大，我觉得你一路上学到了很多。

Because you've really improved so much, and and I feel like you've learned a lot along the way.

我常跟我的学员开玩笑，希望你们学到足够多，最后能放心把我辞了，自己去跑。

And, you know, I like to joke around with my clients that I want you to learn so much that you're soon comfortable firing me and going do this by yourself.

那你觉得，有哪些最重要的经验，可以分享给我们的听众？

So, like, what would you say are some of the biggest lessons that you could you could teach to our listeners?

对我来说，尤其是最近这一段训练，印象特别深。

I think for me, especially, and I just think of the last training block in particular.

你曾经问过我，有没有哪种训练是你希望多做的？

At one point, you asked me, like, is there a certain kind of workout that you wanna see more?

我记得当时想，虽然这可能是我最不喜欢的训练，但正因如此，我才更该多做。

And, I just remember thinking, okay, I don't necessarily want to say this because it's probably my least favorite workout, but that means I should be doing it more.

比如那些长距离的节奏跑，四英里、五英里的那种，确实挺难熬的。

Are those like longer tempo runs like the four and five miles of tempo because they're just challenging.

每次我还是要紧张很久。

And, I every single time I still get nervous before them.

但我觉得最重要的是学会在不舒服的时候也能坦然面对。

But I think one of the things is just like the idea of getting comfortable being uncomfortable.

因为如果我从来不碰那些有挑战的事，那还练什么劲呢？

Because, you know, if I didn't ever do anything that challenged me, then like, what would be the point?

我根本不可能进步。

I wouldn't get any better.

所以我一直逼自己去主动要那些让我发怵的训练，哪怕不想练力量，也硬着头皮去完成。

And so to continually, you know, ask for the workouts that are challenging to me, to continually like show up and do the strength even if I don't wanna do the strength.

去做那些不自然、不顺手的事，还专门腾出时间来对付它们。

To just do the things that don't come natural and, to make time for those things.

我觉得正因如此，我才真正改变了心态——现在我会想，好吧。

And so I feel like by doing all of those things, it's really helped me not only my mindset because then I'm like, okay.

连那种事我都挺过来了，这点困难算什么？

Like if I can do that, then I can get through this.

而且说实话，这真的帮了我很大忙。

And you know, that's really helped.

我觉得关键就是一直坚持这么做。

And I feel like just constantly doing that.

你知道，明明不喜欢这个训练，但还是得把它做完。

You know, constantly being like, okay, I don't like this workout, but I'm going to do this workout.

我可能并不喜欢做这件事，但我会去做。

I don't necessarily like doing this, but I am going to do this.

所有这些事，虽然我未必喜欢，因为它们确实让人不舒服之类的。

And, you know, all of those things that yeah, I don't necessarily love to do because they might be kind of uncomfortable or whatever.

只要我持续做下去，就能一直看到进步。

As long as I keep doing those, like I keep seeing progress.

所以，这对我来说是最有效的一件事。

So, you know, that's one of my biggest things that has worked for me.

尽管很有挑战性，但绝对值得。

And, yeah, even though it's challenging, it's definitely been worth it.

是的。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢这一点，因为你确实尝试了各种不同的挑战，我觉得这对你取得成功帮助很大。

And I love that because you you've certainly challenged yourself with a whole variety of different things, which I think has contributed to your success.

你跑了自己的第一场马拉松。

You know, you ran your first marathon.

你还在努力突破多种赛事的个人最佳成绩。

You're trying to run PRs in a whole host of different types of events.

你还在训练本身上挑战自己，比如做那些让你不舒服的训练，突破新的跑量，做短距离间歇跑，像六分钟以内的配速，这些你平时可能根本不会自己练。

You're also challenging yourself with the training itself, you know, doing workouts that make you feel uncomfortable, hitting new mileage levels, doing short reps, you know, under six minute mile pace that you probably wouldn't have been doing by yourself.

但我稍微推了你一把，让你在一些间歇跑上别太紧绷。

But I gave you a little nudge to kinda, you know, let loose a little bit on some of those reps.

我对教练这件事有个看法。

And I have a theory on coaching.

我想听听你对我的这个观点怎么看：很多跑者其实都会从教练那里受益。

I'd love to just get your thoughts on this thesis of mine is that so many runners would benefit from a coach.

我知道，咱们聊了差不多两年了，你一直跟我训练。

And I understand, you we've been talking about you working with me for about two years.

不是每个人都能做到这一点。

Not everyone can do that.

我觉得教练就跟私人教练差不多。

And I almost think a coach is is very much like a personal trainer.

你不需要一连跟着他们好多年。

You don't have to work with them for years and years and years.

哪怕只是拿一份针对目标赛事的优质训练计划，让你有个清晰的结构和进步方向，或者只跟教练练几个月，也足够了。

Even just getting like one really good running plan for an upcoming goal race just to give you a sense of structure, to give you a sense of progression, or working with a coach for even just a couple months.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know?

不一定要长期坚持，哪怕就为了一个比赛，练上三四个月也好。

It doesn't have to be for, you know, a long period of time, but even maybe just for one single race that you're training for, maybe for three or four months.

只是想让你看看，你自己没注意到的跑步问题，换个旁观者来指点，可能会发现些什么。

Just to give an idea of what am I not seeing with my running that, you know, another observer coming in would be able to tell me.

我觉得如果跑者愿意为自己做这样的投入——哪怕只是短期的，一次性的或者两三个月的——我们整个跑步群体的进步速度都会大大加快。因为你真正需要的，往往就那么几个关键点，知道怎么调整训练，敢不敢在训练中稍微冒险一下，该减量的时候减量，该加量的时候加量，更聪明地分配自己的体力。

And I feel like if runners gave themselves that kind of investment, even that short term, either one off or a couple month investment, I I really feel like we could we could accelerate the entire running community with their progress because you only you only need a couple ideas on how to do things, on how to tweak something, you know, to to take a little bit of a risk with your training, you know, maybe even to dial some things back and then dial other things up, you know, be a little more strategic with your effort.

很多跑者只要这么做了，不仅感觉会好很多，成绩也可能更快。

And so many runners would just feel better and and probably race faster too.

所以我想听听你的看法。

So I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.

你跟我合作这么多年了，你觉得短期的这种模式对你也有帮助吗？

As someone who has been working with me for years, would there be benefit with a a short term approach as well?

我 definitely 认为有帮助。

I definitely think so.

我觉得原因就在于，我经常看到这种情况。

And I I think part of the reason why is, like, I see this all the time.

所以我在这儿组织了一个小小的跑团。

So I, kind of organized this little running group here.

我们每年会办五六场赛事。

And we put on, you know, five or six races a year.

你看看这些人，都想着来参加比赛，但根本没人认真训练，也没为任何目标专门练过。

And you see all these people and like, they wanna show up for the races, but nobody really is training, like specifically training for anything.

很多人其实都心想，要是能跑快一点点就好了。

And there are so many people who are like, man, I just like wish I could get a little bit faster or something like that.

其实我慢慢明白了，这事儿没那么难。

And really like, I've realized it's one, not that hard.

你只要肯下功夫就行。

You just need to put the work in.

其次，大多数普通人根本不知道该怎么跑。

And two, just you know, most average people have no idea what to run.

跑多远、怎么练强度，大多数人完全没概念，力量训练更是一头雾水。

Distance, workouts, most people don't know, you know, what to do for strength or anything like that.

对我来说，有个教练把一切都安排得明明白白特别有帮助，我一看训练计划就知道该做什么，省心多了。

And for me, it helps, just having a coach like always lay it out because I'm just a person who's like, okay, I see that on the schedule like that's exactly what I'm doing and it just makes my life a lot easier.

我觉得，哪怕像你说的，只练两三个月，或者为了某一场重要比赛冲刺一下，也完全值得。

And, I feel like, you know, people just even yeah, like you said, a couple months or, you know, for like one big goal race or whatever.

他们利用这段时间积累的这些知识，以后不管是参加其他比赛还是不同距离的项目，都能受益匪浅。

They took that time then just having that background knowledge then, to be able to apply that to other races, other distances, whatever, who would really benefit a lot.

你这个人啊，我觉得是把这种收益在多个训练周期里不断叠加。

Well, you're someone who I think is is kind of compounding that benefit over multiple training cycles.

一开始是半马，然后是五公里，接着是全程马拉松。

You know, first it was a half marathon, then it was a five ks, then it was a marathon.

现在又回头跑五公里了。

Now we're going back to the five ks.

每个赛季你几乎都在刷新个人最好成绩。

And you're pretty much setting PRs every season.

我知道我有点说得夸张了，但用现在年轻人的话说，你真是理想客户。

And I know I'm glazing you a little bit, but to use some Gen Z slang, you really are a dream client.

和你合作真的特别开心。

And I love working with you.

你实在太稳定了。

You're so incredibly consistent.

我常说到一个词，就是那种毫不松懈的持续性。

You know, there's a phrase I like using this just relentless consistency.

你就是这种精神的典范。

And you are a model of that.

你也能清楚看到这种坚持带来的成果。

And you're seeing the the results from that.

看到你这样，真的特别好，Kiki。

So it's wonderful to see, Kiki.

我非常欣赏你的坚持，还有你对跑步的投入。

I I so appreciate your consistency and how you show up for your own running.

说到底，你对跑步的重视程度，没人能超过你。

Because ultimately, I mean, look, I can't care more about your running than you do.

真正要付出努力的，是你自己。

You are the one who who has to do the work.

每一天的执行，靠的是你，我只是在一旁给你指点而已。

You're the one that has to kind of execute on a day by day basis, and I'm I'm just sort of the guide.

但你让我做起来特别轻松，我真的非常感谢你这一点。

But you make that super easy for me, and and I just wanna thank you for that.

另外，也谢谢你今天抽出时间。

And, also, just for your time today.

我知道，来播客里花一个小时谈自己，可能有点不自在，但你的经历真的很有启发。

I know it's probably a little weird to come and talk about yourself for an hour on a podcast, but I think there's so much to learn from your example.

所以，真的很感谢你的时间。

So I appreciate your time.

非常感谢你愿意来参加。

Well, thank you so much for having me.

这期节目太棒了。

What an episode.

感谢你收听，也感谢你成为我们这个社区的一员。

Thank you so much for listening and being part of our community here.

如果你从《Strength Running》这个播客里获得了收获，觉得它帮到了你的跑步，或者让你重新思考训练方式，麻烦在苹果、Spotify，或者你听播客的平台留下一个评价或评分。

If you're getting value from the strengthrunning podcast, if the show has helped your running or made you rethink how you approach your training, please consider leaving a review or a rating in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

这些评价对这家小企业来说意义重大，非常有帮助。

Those reviews are incredibly impactful and helpful for this small business.

如果你对跑步有任何问题，欢迎发邮件到 support@strengthrunning.com，或者访问我们的网站 strengthrunning.com 查看。

If you have questions about your running, feel free to email me at support@strengthrunning.com, or you can search our website at strengthrunning.com.

想获取更多简洁实用的建议、视频和段子，请关注我的 Instagram：jason fits one。

For more digestible tips, videos, memes, and more, follow me on Instagram at jason fits one.

我们下次再联系。

We'll be in touch.