智能建筑设计中的人工智能如何助力工程师打造自适应数据驱动结构——第163集

杰出结构工程师的与众不同之处不仅在于他们建造什么，更在于他们如何领导。在当今的AEC行业，仅凭技术技能是不够的。成功且盈利的项目需要强大的项目管理和领导力。EMI的AECPM认证为您提供实用工具、按需课程和实时PDH网络研讨会，让您发挥影响力地领导。想更进一步吗？

What sets great structural engineers apart isn't just what they build, it's how they lead. In today's AEC industry, technical skills aren't enough. Successful, profitable projects demand strong project management and leadership. EMI's AECPM certification equips you with real world tools, on demand lessons, and live PDH webinars so you lead with impact. Wanna go further?

考虑报名我们的AECPM认证课程或参加我们的实时AEC PM Connect活动，其中包含关于挣值管理、人工智能在项目管理中的应用以及风险管理的专家讲座。了解更多信息，请访问aecpm.com或致电809204007。记住是aecpm.com或致电809204007，因为卓越的结构工程需要卓越的项目领导力。

Consider our AECPM certification course or attending our live AEC PM Connect with expert sessions on earned value, AI in project management, and risk management. To learn more, visit aecpm.com or call us at 809204007. That's aecpm.com or call us at 809204007 because great structural engineering needs great project leadership.

当今建筑中实际应用的一些最新建筑技术，比如人工智能，有哪些？在本期节目中，我们邀请到了BublyNet创始人兼CEO、Zondiboni Lighting首席愿景官Fabio Zaniboni，来探讨工程师如何利用新兴技术来满足不断演变的能源规范、提升建筑性能，以及智能系统如何为福祉和可持续性重塑商业空间。如果您是一位希望保持领先地位的结构工程师，这场对话充满了您不容错过的实用见解。我是联合主持人Matt Piccardo。

What are some of the latest building technologies such as AI that are actually being used in today's buildings? In this episode, we're joined by Fabio Zaniboni, founder and CEO of BublyNet and chief vision officer at Zondiboni Lighting, to talk about how engineers can leverage emerging technologies to meet ever evolving energy codes, improve building performance, and how smart systems are reshaping commercial spaces for well-being and sustainability. If you're a structural engineer looking to stay ahead of the curve, this conversation is packed with practical insights you won't want to miss. I'm your cohost, Matt Piccardo.

我是联合主持人Alex Dana。这里是结构工程频道。

And I'm your cohost, Alex Dana. And this is the Structural Engineering Channel.

通过EMI的工程领导力加速器，将您的技术专家转变为有影响力的领导者。该项目专为AEC专业人士量身定制，提升沟通、委派和决策技能。灵活、互动，并设计以适应您团队的时间安排。立即提升您团队的领导能力。请访问engineeringmanagementinstitute.org并点击企业培训。

Transform your technical experts into impactful leaders with EMI's Engineering Leadership Accelerator. Tailored for AEC professionals, this program enhances communication, delegation, and decision making skills. Flexible, interactive, and designed to fit your team's schedule. Elevate your team's leadership capabilities today. Visit engineeringmanagementinstitute.org and click on corporate training.

Bobby，你能向我们的听众简要介绍一下你的背景，以及是什么让你走到目前在BublyNet和Zenobody Lighting的职位吗？

Bobby, can you tell our listeners a bit about your background and the path that led you to your current roles at BublyNet and Zenobody Lighting?

好的，当然。我接受工程教育，足迹遍及欧洲、美洲、非洲、亚洲。我周游世界，在超过40个不同的国家工作过，得以了解各种挑战，并对不同文化以及从不同角度解决问题感到着迷。

Yeah. Sure. Engineer by education between Europe, America, Africa, Asia. I'm traveling the world. I've been working on over 40 different countries and got to learn the the challenges and and and got fascinated about having different cultures and and addressing problems from different angles.

因此，作为多年从事更偏向机械方面的工程师，我曾是Comau（菲亚特集团旗下的一家大型机器人公司）的副总裁。然后从那里开始，有一个梦想我珍藏了太久。我说，我希望能够挑战自己成为一名企业家。是的。所以我飞越大洋，来到了美国。

So for for many years as an engineer towards more the the mechanical aspects, I was the VP at Comau, a very large robotics company, part of the Fiat group. And then from there, there was a dream that I I kept on a joy for too long. I say, I wish I could, you know, challenge myself getting to be an entrepreneur. And yeah. So I flew over the ocean, got to America.

九十年代时我已经在汽车城底特律和大急流城工作。我热爱美国，并且我知道如果想创业，世界上最好的国家就是美国。所以我来到了这里。我先进入了游艇的照明和控制系统领域，然后是超级游艇，接着是邮轮，再后来是建筑照明和建筑控制系统。你看，转眼二十五年过去了，我在这里谈论着BublyNet。

I was already working in the automotive Detroit and Grand Rapids in in the nineties. And I loved America, and I knew that if I wanted to to start a business, the best the best country in the world would have been America. So I got here. I got into lighting and controls on yachts, then I went to megayachts, then went to cruise ships, then then I went to architectural lighting and then architectural controls. And, you know, fast forward twenty five years, I'm here talking about bubbling it.

那是最新一个梦想成真。

That is a latest dream come true.

这真是一段精彩的旅程，我很喜欢从船只到建筑物的新过渡方式。听起来你似乎总是在任何特定时刻选择最合理的路径前进。

That's quite the journey, I like the new transition from the boats into the buildings. It sounds like you just kinda follow the path that makes the most sense to you at any given time.

是的。我想请教一下，至少在建筑行业——我知道您也涉足建筑领域——对于结构工程，我知道有很多关于技术、人工智能等等的讨论。鉴于您可能对未来的愿景有更广阔的视角，您在照明行业或更宏观的行业中看到了什么？您如何看待技术或人工智能通过我们的一些程序影响我们行业的未来？

Yes. And I I wanted to ask about because at least in the building industries, I know you're an architecture industry as well. For for structurals, I know there's a lot of talk about technology, AI, and whatnot. What do you see in maybe some of the lighting industry or some of the bigger picture industry since you might have a bigger vision scope of what the future looks like? How do you see technology or AI affecting the future of our industry, maybe with through some of our programs?

或者您在电气行业又看到了什么？

Or or what do you see in the electrical industry as well?

是的。嗯，工程领域将被人工智能彻底革新。这是毋庸置疑的，肯定的。上周我在波士顿参加AIA会议，主题演讲就是关于人工智能的。

Yes. Well, engineering is going to be revolutionized by AI. That's that's granted. It's for sure. Last week, I was at the AIA in Boston, and the the keynote was AI.

我们从Autodesk的人员到各种结构节省设备的制造商以及不同的应用都在讨论AI。非常有趣的是，计算能力越来越便宜，电子设备越来越小，小到几乎可以在任何地方嵌入任何你想要的东西。所以你可以在混凝土中嵌入振动或惯性传感器。如今我们在灯具、暖通空调系统、恒温器、空气质量控制器、加速度计等各种应用中都嵌入了传感器。而且因为你可以将几乎任意多的数据推送到云端，然后就可以获取这些数据并开始交叉分析，得到一些非常非常有趣的应用。

And we're talking AI from people at Autodesk to different manufacturers of structural savings and and different applications. And the thing that is very interesting is that computing power is getting cheaper and cheaper, and electronics is getting smaller and smaller to a point in which you can pretty much embed anything you want at any place. So you you could embed vibration or or inertia sensors on concrete. And we embed nowadays sensors on on lights, on HVAC, on on on thermostats, on air quality controllers, on accelerometers, all kind of different applications. And because you can push as pretty much as as as much data as you want to a cloud, you can then take that data and start crossing the data, getting some very, very interesting applications.

我给你们举几个例子。几个月前我们推出了一个用于暖通空调的AI模块。AI所做的是开始记录建筑物的所有不同参数，并开始理解你建筑的惯性、各种系数，开始比较室外温度、室内温度，因为这个暖通空调模型还连接了带有运动传感器的照明系统。现在AI能够开始交叉分析信息，了解建筑物的哪些区域被占用，哪些区域未被占用。房间内有多少人的负荷本身可以通过暖通空调系统的负荷来测量。

I will give you a few ideas. We we launched a few months ago an AI module for HVAC. And what AI does is it start recording, of course, all the the different parameters of the building and start understanding what is the inertia of your building, what are the different coefficients of your building, start comparing, you know, outside temperatures, inside temperatures because then that HVAC model is also connected to the lighting system where you have motion sensors. Now AI is able to start crossing information between which areas of the building are being occupied or which areas are not being occupied. And the load itself of how many people there are in the room can be measured in terms of, you know, the load that you get on your HVAC.

我们还有人员计数等其他技术。所以你不仅仅知道这个房间有人或没人，而是可以精确到房间里有几个人，并且可以讨论人员负荷等等。我们做的第一个测试案例是在加州州立大学。

We have also other technologies that are people counting. So you're you're you're going beyond, oh, this room is occupied or this room is vac vacated. But you you you can get to a point in which, okay, how many people there are in the room? And and you you can discussing, you know, human loads and so on. So what we did and this model, the first the first test case was at California State University.

第一个模型为他们带来了约30%的能源节省——我们说的这30%节省仅仅是因为软件，仅仅是因为AI。不涉及任何其他因素。所以这种新的计算能力水平，这种能够理解以前完全无关数据的新能力，正在打开非常有趣的前景。要知道，工程一直是非常孤立的，机械是一个孤岛，电气是一个孤岛。

The first model gave them back about 30% saving on on energy just and we're talking about 30% saving just because of software, just because of AI. We're not talking about anything else. So what this new level of computing power, this new level of being able to make a sense to data that before were totally disrelated now are opening very interesting horizons where, you know, engineering has always been very much a siloed. You know, you had you know, mechanical that was a siloed. Electrical was a siloed.

结构也是一个孤岛，管道又是另一个孤岛。当然，它必须是孤立的，因为人脑的能力是有限的，你能掌握的视野和带宽就那么多。

And then you have structural that was a siloed. And then you have plumbing that was siloed. Well, of course, it had to be a siloed because the human mind, there is so much horizon that you can have. You know? There there is so much broadband that that you can get.

现在有了AI，你能够跨越多个学科，开始关联以前几乎不可能关联的信息。所以我真的相信我们从暖通空调开始，正在向照明领域推进。我们开始拥抱一个全新的挑战类别，这与建筑的功能有关。这几乎像是一次重置，让我们重新思考：好吧。

Now with AI, you you are able to go across multiple disciplines and start relating information that before it was almost impossible to relate. And so I I really believe that we start with HVAC. We are progressing with with lighting. There is an entire new category of challenges that we we start embracing, and it has to do with the function of the building. It's almost like a reset and say, okay.

让我们重新思考建筑是什么。当然，如果我们讨论办公空间或多户住宅等，建筑在过去几千年里大致相同。你需要屋顶来防雨雪，需要墙壁和窗户，这样就能与外部环境隔离，还需要光线，这样就不必仅依赖昼夜节律光，即来自太阳的光线。

Let let's think anew what a building is. And and, of course, if we're we're looking about office space or we're talking about, you know, multifamily and so on, well, a building has been roughly the same for the last couple of thousand years. You know? You you want to have a roof to protect you from from rain and the snow, and you want to have some walls and and some windows. So you are kind of insulated from the exterior environment, and then you want to have some light so you're not relying just on on the on on your circadian light, your the light coming from the sun.

这就是希腊和罗马时代的状况。如今建筑能做的远不止这些，因为我们开始理解例如氧气水平或二氧化碳水平与建筑内性能的关系。在办公空间中，仅通过确保充足的氧气，就能将生产力提高15%到20%。在医疗环境中，甚至可以让手术速度加快20%，这也是通过调节氧气实现的。

Well, that was what we had at the time of the Greeks and and and the Romans. There is so much more that a building can do nowadays because we start understanding relationships between, for instance, oxygen levels or c two levels in a building and performance. And it can be performance in an office space where you you increase the increased productivity up to fifteen, twenty percent just by making sure that you have all the oxygen that you need. But it could be also, you know, what about, you know, 20% faster from surgery on on a on a health care environment? You can do that because you are addressing oxygen.

你还可以处理照明中特定光谱的缺失或存在。比如，480纳米处有一个特定频率，是太阳在一天中某些时候拥有的CN光谱，它会触发我们体内的光感受器，释放像皮质醇这样的压力激素。而缺乏这种频率则会触发褪黑激素，众所周知，这是让身体放松、帮助睡眠的物质。仅就照明而言，你可能已经在简报中看到过这一点。

You're addressing lack or existence of some specific spectrums on lighting. Like, there is a specific frequency at four eighty nanometers that is a CN spectrum that the sun has in certain times of day, and it triggers on our photocorticoceptors on the body triggers hormones like cortisol that is our, you know, stress hormone. And then the lack of that frequency triggers melatonin. That, as we know, is the substance that then relax the body and help us sleeping well. So just on lighting, as you probably I I I've seen this on on your on your brief.

我有Babinet，并且仍在抗体照明领域运营。在照明方面，我们开发了一些LED和微芯片，可以增加或减少这些特定频率。你不会看到光线有差异，光仍然是白色的，外观相同，但你只是在调整这些频率。

I have Babinet, and I've been also still operational on on antibody lighting. On on the lighting side, we've been developing some LEDs, some microchips that can increase or decrease those specific frequencies. You're not going to see the difference on the light. The light is still white. It has the same appearance, but you're just increasing or decreasing those those frequencies.

现在你可以改善所有这些因素。几年前我读到伯克利的一项有趣研究，声音干扰会降低学习速度7%到15%，比如在K-12或算术课上，因为注意力分散，失去计算思路等。现在想象一下，通过声音掩蔽技术消除干扰，让建筑使用者能专注于他们想完成的任务。这就是照明的作用。

And and now you are able, right, I was mentioning earlier, to to improve all these kind of of factors. There is another very interesting study I was reading a couple of years ago from Berkeley, and sound distractions are reducing, you know and we're talking about between seven to 15%, reducing learning speed on, you know, a k to 12 or arithmetic lessons and and so on because, you know, the mind gets distracted, and and you're no longer focusing or you lose your your train of of calculation thought and so on. So now imagine, you know, you address that now with sound masking. You're removing the distractions, and now you allow the the occupants of the building to focus on the task they they they want to to achieve. So there is the lighting.

我提到过氧气。我们在办公室做了测试，比如在不同二氧化碳水平下进行打字测试。随着二氧化碳水平升高，你的速度会下降。现在有一个嵌入式传感器可以告诉你二氧化碳水平远高于应有值。

I was mentioning about the oxygen. We we did tests here in in the in the office. We did, like, typing test with higher or lower c o two levels. And there is a like like like, your speed diminished as your your c two increases. So now having a small embedded sensor that tells you, well, your c o two is is way above what it's supposed to be.

当然，你可以全面改造，安装新风进口和DAV系统等。或者也可以采用低预算方案，我们正与一些加州学区讨论。传感器上有一个小灯闪烁红色，基本上只需打开对面两扇窗户一分钟，就能更换60%的空气。就像老奶奶说的好建议：早上打开房间窗户，这里面有很多道理。

And, of course, you know, you can go full in and have, you know, fresh air intakes and having DAVs and so on. Or it could be a very low budget application where now and we're discussing this with a few California school districts. You have a little light where the sensor is that's blinking red. Pretty much, you need to open two opposite windows for a minute, and 60% of your air is changed. So, you know, the the old grandma, you know, good lessons, you know, in the morning, open the windows of your room, you know, there there was there was a lot.

这不只是奶奶想呼吸新鲜空气。这样你睡得更好，学得更好，做事更高效。

It was not just grandma, you know, trying to to to get some some fresh air. Like, you know, you're sleeping better. You know? You you study better. You do better what you want to do.

抱歉，我讲得有点长。但确实，你能嵌入越来越多智能和数据点，达到几年前无法想象的水平，因为这些微芯片越来越便宜。更重要的是，我们完全进入无线领域，可以连接这些设备，有些是电池供电，有些甚至是动能设备。

So, again, sorry. I I took it a little too long. But, yes, you you are able to embed more and more intelligence, more and more data points at levels that were inconceivable a few years ago because, again, these microchips are be they're becoming cheaper and cheaper and less expensive. And and, really, it's you you can start and then the other very important part is that we are totally into the wireless space. So being able to connect these devices, devices that can be battery powered, devices that can even be with like, we have kinetic devices.

仅凭压力就能产生足够能量发送蓝牙消息。我们还有微型光电池设备，甚至不需要电池就能运行。未来十年，建筑技术将给我们带来非常有趣的惊喜。

So just with the pressure, you get enough energy to send a Bluetooth message. We have devices that have little microphotocells. So you don't even need to have batteries to operate them. So it's a like, technology on the next ten years in the building is going to give us some very interesting surprises.

是的。太棒了。这真是一个很酷的概述，展示了我从未想过的各种可能性。最让我印象深刻的是根据你的活动调整照明或环境，比如整个暖通空调系统。就像你说的，学习时可能存在某种理想的生物指标或环境条件，可以通过建筑系统进行调节。

Yeah. That was great. That was a really cool overview of all the possibilities that so I haven't even thought of. This is like the it's kind of like the one that caught me was adjusting the lighting or the environment, the whole HVAC system to what you're doing in terms of, like you were saying, studying. There's probably some ideal biometrics that is probably ideal for that or the environment in terms of what you can manipulate in the building.

是的。这些都很有趣。这感觉不仅仅是'哦，太热了，开空调'这么简单。不是这样的。

Yeah. It's all interesting. It's it kind of just feels like it's not just, oh, it's hot. Turn on the air conditioning. It's, no.

你想要做什么？我们周围的所有技术都为我们提供数据，来实现这些增强功能。就连你一开始提到的那个暖通空调软件，仅通过收集数据就节省了30%，我猜是在能效或功耗方面。如果房间里没人，就不需要任何设备运行。

What are you trying to do? And all the technology around us gives us that that data to to come up with with with with all these enhancements. Even that HVAC software that you were mentioning at the beginning where they saved, what, 30% just from software, just from getting gathering data. And I'm assuming that was in terms of efficiency or power usage. If someone's in the room, they don't need anything there.

但如果有一两个人或一整群人，系统就会根据他们的需求进行调整。

But if one or two or a whole group of people, it'll adjust it to to what they need.

对吧？完全正确，Matthew。有了所有这些智能数据后，你还可以将暖通空调设备的尺寸做得更小。因为你知道，通常设备尺寸是基于'我可能会在大型会议室容纳300人，需要在这么多分钟内降温以应对负荷'来设计的。但通过人工智能，比如提前知道将在特定时间有300人进入，你就可以提前开始冷却环境。

Right? Absolutely, Matthew. And then what what you can also do, now that you have the all that intelligence, you can size your HVAC unit to a smaller size. Because, you know, you size that unit because you know, oh, I'm gonna have 300 people on a large conference room, and I need to able to reduce my temperature where I need to be able to address this load in so many minutes. Well, with AI, knowing, for instance, that you will have these 300 people in so many minutes, you can start, you know, cooling down the environment.

或者通过人数统计，你不必等到负荷使湿度和热量飙升到顶点。你知道会有300人，知道大约二十分钟后环境会变得难以忍受，所以你现在就开始降温。这样你就不需要庞大的设备来即时处理负荷，再加上过去二十分钟积累的负荷，因为你能预测未来的负荷情况。

Or with people counting, you don't wait for that load to take the humidity and the the heat through the roof. You know that there is 300 people, and you know that in about twenty minutes, it's gonna feel horrible. So you stop now cooling down. So now you don't need to have a huge piece of equipment that is able now that everything is going through the boards needs to now deal with the load plus, you know, the load over the last twenty minutes because you are able to predict what is gonna be your load. So you you have that.

是的。人工智能因此可以完全超越我们两个月前发布的功能。我们将其命名为'泡泡'，正是当我们开始构想这类技术时的灵感。我们说，我们将能够根据你想要做的事情来创建你的理想泡泡。你是想要玩乐吗？

Yes. AI then can be totally pushed beyond just what we we we released two months ago. Bubbling it as as the name, it was really when we start envisioning this kind of technology. And we say, well, you know, we are going to be able to create your ideal bubble based on what you're trying to do. Are you trying to have fun?

比如，我之前和一些酒店讨论未来的部署，我们谈到了根据音乐节拍（BPM）来执行特定任务。音乐。你当然可以理解，某些音乐在你进行CrossFit训练气喘吁吁时是你愿意听且能帮助你的，而当你试图放松或平静下来时，你会需要另一种节拍的音乐。

Like, I I was talking with an about, you know, future deployments on on different hotels, and we were discussing specific task with beats per minute of the music. Music. So you can of course, you you can understand that you have certain music. That is the music that you're gonna be willing and is gonna be helping you out when you are out of breath during a CrossFit session. And then you're gonna have a certain beats per minute when you are trying to wind down and try or or you're you're trying to relax or see?

所以，就像用音乐调节一样，你也可以调节房间的温度、照明。偏蓝的灯光通常更刺眼，是刺激物，会提高你的新陈代谢。而当使用某种颜色时，比如每个人都在体验的生物蜡烛或生物纤维的色调。

So as you do it with music, you can you can do it with the temperature of a room. You can do it with the lighting. Now bluish lightings are going to be lightings that are a little more harsher, and they are most they are stimulants, you're gonna increase your metabolism. While when you have a color, like, it's it's what everybody has been experiencing. You are bio candle like, you know, or biofiber.

你不觉得我们就像朋友一样吗？这样你不仅可以重现这些心理效应，还能创造真实的生物效应，就像我们通过阅读研究所知。我们做皮质醇测试，进行血液检测，观察身体如何随着建筑内参数的变化而变化。而这将会实现。

Don't you feel that we are all friends? It's so you can recreate not only these kind of psychological effects, but you can create true biological effects that we read. Like, we do cortisol tests. We know we get blood tests, and we see how the the body changes as, you know, your parameters within your building are changing. And and it's gonna happen.

有了人工智能，这一切会发展得非常快。就像体验一样，你知道，我有个测试。我离开。每次我靠近汽车，车门就会自动打开。我上车。

With AI, it's gonna happen super fast. Like, experience, you know, I have a test. I exit. You know, every time I get close to the the the car, the door opens automatically. I get on the car.

车门关闭。座椅，你知道，会根据我的体型自动调节。这些我们已经知道了。为什么在建筑上不能实现呢？建筑应该能识别，哦，我是欧洲人。

The door closes. The the seat, you know, sets to my dimensions. Like, we we already know that. Why we cannot have that on on a building? Like, the building should recognize, oh, I'm European.

我喜欢78华氏度（约25.6摄氏度）的温度。大家都讨厌这个温度。但如果我在办公室，为什么非得冻在72度（约22.2摄氏度）？你看我穿了多少。

I love my age back at 78. Everybody hates me. But if I'm, like, right now in my office, why do I need to freeze at 72? You know? Like, look at how I'm dressed.

你知道吗？在72度的环境里我得穿两件外套。所以我进入我的房间，我的空间。建筑应该知道我在里面。我喜欢78度，暖通空调系统就应该调到78度。

You know? I need to have double coat at seventy two. So I get into the into my room, into my space. Well, the building should know I'm here. I level 78, and HVAC should go to material 78.

为什么每次都要我亲自去调？在酒店业你也开始看到这种趋势，比如你是万豪的常客，入住房间时，有些酒店已经开始这样做了。房间能识别你，确切知道你想要什么设置。把建筑想象成一个会呼吸的有机体，这让我觉得很迷人。

What do I need every single time to go down? And and you start seeing that also, like, in the hospitality where now you are a a Marriott frequent flyer, and you get to a room, and there are a few properties that started having that. You know? And room recognize you and knows exactly, you know, what are your settings that you want. Like, thinking about a building almost like a breathing organism is is fascinating to me.

是的。

Yeah.

我也在思考这个问题，因为这让我想到了很多。我觉得一些结构应用，你也提到了，比如在某些楼层的建筑里安装加速度计。我还没进一步深入，但我知道至少对结构工程师来说，比如地震发生时，这些实时数据非常宝贵，不仅能确保建筑在地震后仍然安全，还为我们提供了真实数据。因为建筑没法制作原型在地震台上测试，我们建造的就是最终产品，没有原型，只能依赖计算机模型。

I I was also wondering because that that's got me thinking too. And I think some of the the structural applications, I think you kinda mentioned it too, like, ex accelerometers installed in some of the buildings on some floors. I haven't taken that step further because with with all of that, I know at least for structural engineers engineers for, let's say, an earthquake happens, like, that's valuable real time data that we can use not only to make sure that the building is is still safe after an earthquake, but it gives us that real real life data in terms of because, you know, with buildings, we can't make a prototype and test it on an earthquake table. We're we're building that thing. There's no prototypes, and we we have to rely on our computer models to to do that.

拥有这些实时数据或实际应用，我知道对地震工程界来说非常宝贵。绝对是的。我也在考虑振动方面。

And then having that real time data or the actual real world applications, I know that's very valuable, at least, the seismic community. Absolutely. And, yeah, I'm thinking of vibrations too.

是的。这类传感器，马修，我认为我们工程师的工作当然是要完成 assigned 的任务，把建筑建好等等。但我们是站在巨人的肩膀上，所以也应该这样做。在当前建筑中嵌入传感器，假设这些信息对我的建筑没直接价值，但肯定对下一代有价值，借助这些数据，他们能建造更好的建筑。

Yeah. Those kind of sensors, of course, Matthew, I I believe that that what we do as engineers is, of course, we're doing the task that we are assigned, and we're gonna build that building the right way and so on. But we are we're standing on on giant's on giant's shoulders, so we should do the same. And embedding sensors on my current building let's let's assume that, you know, that information is not going to be valuable for my building. For sure, it's gonna be valuable for the next generation that, thanks to those data, is gonna be able to build a better building.

这样我们可以思考如何通过前所未有的方式体验建筑在压力下的表现，来 future-proof 我们的建筑或设计。但同时还有很多实时可以做的事情。安装这些传感器后，你可以触发事件。比如我们有所谓的事件、场景，不同学科叫法不同。

Back so we can think about how we can future proof our buildings or how we can future proof our design by by experiencing like we never experienced before buildings under stress. But there is also a lot a lot of things that you can do in real time. So you you put these sensors, and now you could trigger an event. Like, we have what are called events, scenes. We call them in different ways, different disciplines.

但假设发生地震事件。那么，所有电梯应立即降至底层并停止运行，同时开始锁定水泵或启动应急电路处理。就像这样，仅凭振动信号就能做很多事情——你现在能够识别出这栋建筑除了声音表现外还有其他异常，随即进入紧急状态。紧急状态不能仅仅因为火灾才启动。当然我们有火灾防护系统，但你知道，我们可以应对并提升安全性，因为这不仅仅是'哦，发生地震了'这么简单。

But let's say that you have an event that is an earthquake. Well, instantly, you should have all your elevators going down to ground zero on a break or whatever it is, and you should start locking down water pumps or start by treating your emergency circuit. Start, Like, there is so many things you can do just because you have the vibration, and now you are able to recognize, well, there is something beyond the the sound performance of this building, and now we go on an emergency status. It cannot be just an emergency status just because we have a fire. Of course, we have fire protectors, but, you know, we we can address and we can improve the safety just because, you know, it is not like, oh, there is a earthquake.

此刻就会产生恐慌。所有人涌向出口导致所有出口超负荷。在这类事件中，几秒钟的差异可能就意味着生与死的区别。正因为你能在楼内人员身体感知到震动前的几秒获得预警，就可以实施许多非常关键的措施。我们正是运用这类振动传感器和加速度计等技术。

Now there is panic. Now everybody's trying to go towards the exit, and now we have, you know, all the exits overloads. Like, in in those events, the seconds are the difference between there could be the difference between life and death. So you you can do a lot of things that are becoming very, very interesting just because you have several seconds before there is the the the physical recognition from the occupancy building that the health work is is ongoing. And and we use all these these kind of vibration sensors and accelerometers and so on.

我们当然会将这些传感器应用于水泵和各种设备。因为如你所知，可以通过温度和振动来预估设备寿命。当电机温度升高、振动加剧时，就能推算出该设备的剩余使用寿命。是的，虽然我们只是闲聊，但我确信如果结构工程界开始思考：如何通过电子传感与结构工程的融合创造价值，我相信一定会有人提出绝妙的想法。

We we do them, of course, on pumps, on different kind of equipments. So because as you you you know, like, you can kind of determine the lifetime expectancy based on temperature and vibration. So, of course, as a motor is going up in temperature and is going up on vibration, you know that there is so much life expectancy that you can you can expect from that unit. So, yes, definitely, we're just chatting, but I'm sure that if if the community, the structural community start thinking, okay. What could I do that what results just by merging electronics sensing with structural, I think we I'm I'm sure somebody will come up with some great idea.

没错。我刚好想到个不算革命性但很实际的例子：我看过那些视频，体育场馆或人群在统一跳跃时，作为结构工程师的你肯定会想——

Yeah. And one that just popped into my head, it's not revolutionary, but I've seen those videos where there's a, I don't know, a sports stadium or a crowd, and they're jumping up and down in unison. And as a structural engineer, you're like,

别跳了。

no.

对。请不要这样。应该有种强制停止机制，比如某种警报系统——

No. Please don't do it. Take that type of stop jumping. It should be some type of alarm. I don't know.

火警响起之类的信号，让所有人立即停止。能不能

The fire alarm goes off or something like, stop. Everything stops. Can you

想象一下设计那个体育馆的结构工程师？你知道他是什么心情吗？

imagine the GBA that designed that stadium? You know, how he feels?

哦天哪。就像...是啊，想象整个建筑都在晃动的场景。不过好吧，我收回这个例子。

Oh, no. It's like yeah. I'm thinking you should see the whole thing jumping up and down. But, yeah, let's just change my mind.

这让人不得不感谢安全系数的存在。其实这让我想到一直在思考的问题：在结构领域，结构健康监测正成为越来越重要的话题。如果结合你提到的AI与传感技术，我认为这可以成为验证结构设计的创新方法。当我们为抗震设计建筑时，本质是在调整结构使荷载按预期传递。

Makes you thankful for the safety factors of the use. So that actually brought up a thought that I was kinda throwing around. Mean, in in the structural realm, structural health monitoring is becoming a bigger and bigger topic. And I think if you combine it with AI and synthesis you're talking about, I could see it as an alternate method of actually confirming structural designs. I mean, when we design a building for, say, a seismic case, we're we're tuning it so loads go where we expect.

我们挺喜欢讨论体育场这个话题。我们正在研究建筑物内居民的居住频率。我认为，即使是一个小型活动或者建筑物内有足够的入住率，如果你能实际处理这些数据，就可以开始提取出部分数据。

And we kinda like the stadium talk. We're looking at the residents resident frequencies at the building. And I think even with a small event or or enough occupancy in the building, you could start to pull some of that data out if you could actually process the data.

完全正确。而且借助人工智能，比如如果你嵌入那些传感器，这些传感器是无线的，成本只是过去的一小部分，那时你需要将五六个不同的传感器连接到面板，再将面板连接到中央面板。所以一切都变得更小、更容易。现在你可以开始拥有建筑物的热图，了解它的行为方式。这样，设计那个体育场的结构工程师就不会说‘不’了。

Absolutely. And and with AI, like, if you embed those those sensors, the sensors are wireless, it it costs a fraction of what it used to cost when you you had to cut five or cut six all the different sensors to a panel and the panel to a central panel. So everything is smaller and easier. And now you start having heat maps on your building, how it behaves. And so you will have that structural engineer that designed that stadium instead of saying, no.

请不要这样做。而是会说‘是的，请做吧，因为我在我的桌面上，确切地看到我的‘宝贝’是如何表现的。’然后所有这些信息，对于任何开发建筑的人来说都变成了价值。

Please don't do it. Say, yes. Yes. Please do it because I'm seeing here on my desk, you know, on my desktop exactly how my my baby is behaving. And then all that information, that becomes value for whomever developed a building.

因为你开发了一栋建筑，安装了传感器，现在你就拥有了它，就像你提到的马修的例子。所有人都在跳跃。现在你开始在你的数字孪生体上看到结构在那种负载下的表现。你正在学习一些东西，否则谁会去演示一个体育场，让5000人跳跃来看看会发生什么？你知道吗？

Because you developed a building, you put the sensors, and now you you have it, like the example, Matthew, that you were mentioning. Everybody, you know, jumping. Now you start seeing on your on your digital twin how the structure is is performing based on the on that load. You are learning something that who else will demo a stadium and put, you know, 5,000 people and say, please jump to see what's happening? You know?

所以你可以利用真实的生活经验来更多地了解建筑物的行为，为未来的项目服务。

So you you can use a real life experience to to learn more about how buildings behave for for future projects.

像那样的数据。我的意思是，它可以帮助我们发现规范中的空白。也许我们在某些领域设计得过于保守，而在其他领域可能不够保守。我认为，通过人工智能与所有这类数据的结合，我们也可以开始识别招聘的方式。完全同意。

Data like that. I mean, it could help us discover gaps in the code. Maybe we were designing, you know, too conservatively in some areas and and maybe unconservatively in others. And I think with AI ingrained with all that type of data, we can start to identify ways to recruit as well. Totally agree.

你们有没有在设计中应用它？我知道至少在结构设计过程中，技术方面有很多复杂的软件程序用于建筑建模。我相信那里也有应用。在软件方面，你在你的行业中也看到这一点了吗？我知道你提到了Autodesk。

Have you used it in any I guess, with technology, I know during the design process for at least for structural. I mean, there's a lot of, you know, the complex software programs that go into doing a building model. I'm sure there's applications there. Have you seen that also in in your industry in terms of software? I know you mentioned, like, Autodesk.

比如，你对他们在软件能力方面可能做什么有愿景吗？

Like, did you have visions on what they could do in terms of software capabilities?

是的。我开始看到巨大的分歧。不幸的是，我开始看到一些传统公司对人工智能持‘还没准备好’的态度。我完全同意你的看法。你知道，在许多应用中，人工智能确实还没准备好。

Yes. I I'm I'm start seeing big divide. I start seeing, unfortunately, legacy companies that have this approach to AI, like, not ready. And I I totally agree with you. You know, in in many applications, AI is not ready.

但如果你现在不拥抱人工智能，当人工智能准备好时，你也不会准备好，因为这是一个巨大的学习过程。比如，每个月我们公司内部都会面临不同的挑战。每个月，我们都会奖励那些提出最佳人工智能应用或通过人工智能为公司节省最多资金的人，季度也是如此。这是一个过程，一个过程。

But if you do not embrace AI now, you are not going to be ready when AI is ready because it's it's it's a big learning process. Like, every month, we we have different challenges within the company. And once a month, we we award whomever got up with the the best AI application or or save the company the most money quarterly with AI and and and so on. And it's a process. It's a process.

我年纪够大，是在大学毕业后才学会使用电脑的。而且，你知道，我当时还年轻，所以学起来相当容易。但是，我可以想象，如果你去问一个过去四十年从未接触过电脑的工程师，或者我的前辈们，他们还在使用那些打孔卡片，在大学里那些老旧的大机柜前花上一个下午，提着一公文包的打卡片。对于这些工程师来说，开始使用新软件，特别是图形界面等等，确实是一个巨大的跨越。而如今，从非AI到AI的跨越，比我经历过的任何跨越都要大，比智能手机的出现更大，比台式机或笔记本电脑的普及更大。

I'm old enough to learn to use a computer after the university. And, you know, I was still young, so it was pretty easy. But, you know, I I can imagine, like, if you would ask an engineer that never saw a computer for the last forty years or or my my predecessors, they were still using, you know, those punching cards on on the old old big cabinets at the university where you spend an afternoon, you know, with your briefcase of of punching cards. Like, those engineers to start using new software and particularly, like, a graphical interfaces and so on, it it was kind of a a a big leap. Well, the leap from non AI to AI is bigger than any leap I I've been experiencing, bigger than, you know, your smartphone, bigger than, you know, your desktop or laptop.

这需要一些时间。你几乎需要重新训练你的思维方式。关键在于你如何提出你的问题。关键在于你如何构建那些数据桶，以便获取正确的信息。

And it takes some time. You you need to retrain almost your your reasoning. The the the reason is about how you're gonna prompt your question. Question. The reasoning is how you're going to build those buckets of data so that you can get the right information.

因为AI仍然是垃圾进、垃圾出。所以它真的取决于你如何准备这个超级引擎，以交付你想要的结果。回到你的问题，我确实相信在未来五年内，我们将看到一场颠覆。我们将看到初创公司，我们将看到那些仍处于初创模式的相对较新的公司，超越并取得领先地位，对抗那些不愿采用这项技术的公司。

Because AI is still you have junk in, junk out. So it really depends how you prep this super engine in order to deliver what you tend to be delivered. So back to your question, I do believe that in the next five years, we are going to see a disruption. We're going to see startups. We're going to see relatively newer companies that are still on kind of startup mode, surpassing and getting to leading positions against companies that were reluctant to adopt this technology.

然后，当然，你会看到一些非常大的公司。我现在就看到一些（不点名），它们已经处于领导地位，并且正在积极拥抱AI。我不知道竞争对手将如何与这些现在也有AI加持的巨头竞争。所以，这正在发生。

And then, of course, you are going to see very large companies. I'm seeing them right now without naming names, that they already have a leadership position. And they are embracing AI. And I don't know how competition are going to be able to compete with these behemoths that now have also AI on their side. So it's happening.

它发生得非常快。这不是一场你可以置身事外、只做记录的进化。你知道的？那样行不通。

It's happening very fast. It is not it's not an evolution that you can stay on on the sidelines and and keep score. You know? Not going to work.

是的。它在大多数应用中还不成熟，但想想从现在开始，到人们真正投入更多资金和时间进去之后，它能做到什么。我的意思是，是的，所有这些公司现在都在AI上投入大量资金。五年后那会是什么样子？

Yeah. It's it's not ready in most applications, but just thinking of, like, what it can just do from now until people actually invest more money and time into it. I mean, yeah, all those companies, they're investing a lot of money into AI now. What yeah. What will that look like in five years?

是的。我给你举个例子。我儿子在一家照明公司工作，他使用了Gemini，创建了一个模型，并用所有的规格表和数据信息、代表光束的IES文件来训练它。在他加载了所有这些信息之后，他开始提问。好的。

Yeah. And I will give you an example. My son works on the lighting company, and he used Gemini and and created a gem, trained it with all the spec sheets and all the data information, the IS files that are the the the files that represent the beam of the light. And after load he loaded all this information, he said inform asking questions. Okay.

在一条走廊上安装这个特定产品需要多少英尺的间距？假设天花板是这个高度，这个宽度，这种材料，并且我希望地板上有这么多英尺烛光（照度单位）。以前，你需要一个照明设计师花几个小时来做这个。而他在十五秒内就得到了信息。所以它发生得很快。

How many feet on sand I need to to install this specific product on a hallway? Feel like, ceiling of this height, this width, this material, and I want to have so many food candles on the floor. Before, you would have a lighting designer spending a couple of hours doing that. And he got his information in fifteen seconds. So it's it's happening fast.

它发生得非常快。所以我同意你的看法，马特（Matthew）。我不断遇到...我不会深入细节，因为这对不同的AI提供商来说不太友好。但这已经发生过不止一次了。你知道的？

It's it's happening very fast. So I agree with you, Matt Matthew. I I keep on having I I will not get into the details because it's not it's not very nice for for for the different AI providers. But it happened more than once. You know?

你真的会，嗯，你嗅一嗅然后说，不。这不可能是正确答案。然后你质疑这个答案，接着AI会说，谢谢你。抓得好。你知道的？

You you really like, you you sniff it and say, no. This is it cannot be the the right answer. And you challenge the answer, and then you get the AI saying, thank you. Good catch. You know?

我漏掉了那个乘法系数。然后你就，谢谢你。谢谢。对吧？所以不要仅仅为了做你的结构卡片——比如桥梁结构性能——而使用AI。

I missed that multiplication factor. And you're you're like, thank you. Thanks. Right? So don't don't use AI just to do your your cards for structure like, bridge structural, you know, performance.

我们肯定还没达到那个水平。但我们正在朝那个方向努力。比如，在软件方面，我们的程序员会说，AI让他们的生产力至少提高了30%。所以我相当确定，结构工程师们也开始使用这些工具，他们可以开始削减那些所谓的浪费时间的低层次任务。

We're not there for sure. But we're get there. Like, in the software side, I would say that our coders would say that they increase of their productivity by at least 30% with AI. So I'm pretty sure that also engineers, structural engineers, they they they they start using some of these tools, and they they can start, you know, cutting those low level task that were just, quote unquote, wasting their time.

是的。在低层次上，我意思是，即使是帮忙处理电子表格，如果你知道如何使用，那也能节省大量时间，这就像是低垂的果实。但然后，是的，你还能用它做什么呢？对吧？

Yeah. On the low level, I mean I mean, even just helping with spreadsheets. That's a huge time saver if you know how to use it, and that's like low level fruit. But then, yeah, what else can you do with it? Right?

它从那里开始就一路向上。但是，是的，总是要小心。我知道它还没准备好应对所有的数学和工程方面。你会看到一些，是的。

It's it just goes up from there. But Yeah. Always being careful. I know it's not ready for the all the math and engineering side. You'll see some yeah.

就像你说的，你会看到一些错误，就像，是的，它还没到那一步，但尝试得很好。所以下次吧。

Like you were saying, you'll see some errors and like, yeah, it's not there yet, but it was a good try. So next time.

那么，关于无线与有线建筑控制系统有哪些常见的误解，而网状技术又是如何挑战这些假设的？

So what are some of the common misconceptions about wireless versus wired building control systems, and how does mesh technology challenge those assumptions?

我喜欢这个问题。几年前，我们为美国最大的网络安全公司之一做了一个项目，当时我们在讨论无线与有线。这几乎可以类比到大约十五年前，每个人都拥有内部服务器和多名IT人员，因为没有什么比在地下室拥有自己的服务器更安全的了。现在还有多少公司这么做呢？你知道吗？

I like this question. We did a few years ago one of the largest cyber cybersecurity companies in The US project, and we were discussing wireless versus wide. And there's almost the analogy of you remember about fifteen years ago, everybody had a in house server and multiple IT people because there is nothing safer than to have our own server in the basement. How many companies do that nowadays? You know?

你把所有东西都放在云上。而当我提议——我的意思是，你应该把所有东西都放在云上。这样容易得多。你不需要等待外部的IT人员从城外赶来或怎样，避免了停机时间。但人们会说，可是在云上不安全。

You you you have everything on the cloud. And and when I you would you would pitch well, I mean, you you should put everything on the cloud. It's much easier. You don't have the downtime waiting for, you know, the external IT person to come from outside town or or whatever. It was like, well, but on the cloud, it's not secure.

结果证明，云可能比放在地下室安全得多。同样地，在无线方面也存在这种误解。是的，因为有些协议容易受到干扰，还有些协议容易被黑客攻击。

Well, it turns out that probably the cloud is way, way more secure than to have it on a basement. And similarly on wireless, there is this misconception. Yes. Because you have protocols that are easy to interfere with. Then the you have protocols that are easy to hack.

有大量旧的WiFi路由器让黑客们，你知道，轻松得手。但我们主要使用的是256位端到端加密。它有15层不同的安全防护。它仍然是开放平台蓝牙的一部分，但这是最新版本，称为蓝牙NLC。

You have a a ton of old Wi Fi routers that hackers, you know, have a picnic with. But what what principally, what we use is two fifty six bit encryption end to end. It has, you know, 15 different layers of security. It's still part of the open platform Bluetooth, but it's what is called Bluetooth NLC. That is the latest version.

这是2023版本。简单来说，它是完全加密的，但与您手机上的蓝牙相比具有更广泛的安全特性。比如，您手机开启蓝牙时，如果有人发送消息，即使加密了，我仍可重放该消息，完全复制您支付或创建消息时的操作，因为消息内容保持不变。

It's the twenty twenty three version. And just to give you so it's it's fully encrypted, but has wide variety of extra security comparing to the Bluetooth you have on your phone. Like, you you have your Bluetooth on your phone. Somebody needs a message. Even if it's encrypted, I can always replay the message and do exactly what you were doing when you were paying that when you were creating the message because the message is still the same.

而在我们的蓝牙LC技术中，每条消息都使用独一无二的加密密钥，这些密钥会像计数器一样持续变化。即使有人切断整栋大楼的电源，宣称明天要发起拒绝服务攻击，比如关闭医院所有灯光——若试图重复发送相同消息，网络会识别出加密密钥已过期，自动丢弃消息并将尝试入侵网络的设备ID列入黑名单。

In our case, in Bluetooth and LC, what what you have is that every message has a unique encryption key, and the encryption keys keep on changing almost like with the counter. So even if you grab you know, somebody turns off the lights of the entire building and say, you know, I'm gonna start having a denial of service attack tomorrow, and they're gonna turn off all the lights of of the hospital or whatever. Well, if you try to send that same message later on, the network sees that the the encryption key is an old one and automatically discards the message and blacklist the unique ID of the device that was trying to enter and to hack the network. So, yes, people think, oh, if it's scope, if it's inside the why, nobody can get there. Well, relatively true because you can always go on LinkedIn and see what are the job openings, apply for any kind of job, get to a a meeting room, unplug one of those, you know, conference call speakers on on the cat five.

您知道，人们总认为铜缆更安全。但现实是，正因为这种认知，他们忽略了内部防护——没人考虑来自内部的攻击。比如通过LinkedIn查看招聘信息，应聘任何职位，进入会议室拔掉Cat5网线连接的会议音箱，接上电脑后，只需几秒就能侵入系统。

You know, you you plug it into your computer. And if you know what to do, you you are into a system in in a matter of seconds. So, yes, it it there is this appearance of of copper being more more protected. But, unfortunately, because people think, oh, it's protected now, they're not protecting it from the inside because they're not thinking about an attack from inside. And then they they never open you know, we were talking about Wi Fi.

比如某个角落的路由器连接着某种服务，然后十年不加维护。这时您就拥有了一个十年陈旧的系统。而我们的所有软件、网关等都在持续更新以应对网络安全挑战——当威胁不断升级而系统停滞不前，胜负早已注定。

You know, they have a router someplace connected with, you know, whatever kind of service, and and the router sits there for the next ten years. Now you have a system that is ten years old. And all our software, all our gateways, and so on, you know, they continuously getting updated so that the security is getting updated. Everything gets updated because, you know, of course, the challenges cybersecurity challenges, they keep on update updating. And if they update and your system doesn't update, you know, guess who's gonna win sooner or later.

无线技术常被误认为更容易破解，但事实并非如此。我们承接过多座联邦建筑和机场项目，以机场为例——

So wireless, it has this perception of, oh, it's it's easier to hack. As a reality, it's not. We've been doing federal buildings. We've been doing airports projects. And, like, airports is the typical.

机场内有数万乘客开启蓝牙。若机场认可这项技术，本身就证明其可靠性。对于机场等敏感场所，我们采用'空气隔离系统'：端到端加密且真正无后门的设计，从根本上阻断入侵途径。

You know, in an airport, you do have tens of thousands of passengers on their Bluetooth. And if you have an airport saying, okay. I'm cool with with this technology, it means that the technology is good. We for for for airports or or or sensitive sites, what we do is what is called an air gap system. So it's a system that is end to end encrypted, and there is no backdoors, really, you you can use to to enter the system.

因此，相比十年前的无线技术，特别是2025年无线领域的突破，我更倾向于选择无线解决方案。不仅因为无线特性支持空中升级，更能在快速演进的世界中保持系统持续进化。

So, yes, for sure, between wireless technology of ten, fifteen years ago and wider, I would say wider when we're talking about what has happened in 2025 on the wireless space. I prefer a lot many, many wireless solution than the the hardwire. Also because, you know, the wireless, it's wireless. You can update it over the air. So you have a continuously evolving system in a world that is in very fast accelerated evolution.

硬件设备安装后可能沿用十五年，几年后就会过时，其提供的攻击面将远大于持续自我更新的无线系统。

So you have something that is hardware based. That hardware is gonna stay there for fifteen years. And after a few years, it's gonna be obsolete, and it's gonna be it's gonna give you a a surface of attack that is gonna be much higher than a wireless system that continuously updates itself.

哇。我这边还想再问一个问题，因为对话实在太精彩了，

Wow. I wanted to ask one more question on my end. I know because conversation is really cool,

但我知道我们需要

but I know we want to

要尊重每个人的时间。所以我最后一个问题涉及一些可持续性碳目标，比如，我相信纽约市有地方法律97，我们有雄心勃勃的碳目标。这些由我们收集的所有数据驱动的智能技术如何影响这一点？我想象它会创造更好的环境或ESG价值。绝对是的。

be respectful of everyone's time. So my last question had to do with some of the sustainability carbon targets of you know, like, for example, I I believe New York City has a local law 97 where we have ambitious carbon targets. How do these smart technologies, driven by all of the data that we're collecting, how does that affect that? Like, I'm I'm imagining it's gonna create better environmental or those ESG values. Absolutely.

绝对是的。在一定程度上

Absolutely. To a point

针对LL 97，我们设计了一个特定的软件和特定网站，你可以在rainventnycnewyorkcity.com找到它。但不管怎样，那里有很多非常非常酷的信息，关于如何达到LL 97的合规要求。马修，有几个方面是肯定的，正如我们之前所说，我在整个大楼都安装了运动传感器。我认为那是LL 88。

in which for for LL 97, we design a specific software and specific website is you find it at the rainventnycnewyorkcity.com. But, anyway, so over there, there is a lot of very very cool information about, you know, how how to get LL 97 compliant. And there is several aspects, Matthew. For sure, as we were saying earlier, I have motion sensors all across the building. That is I think it was LL 88.

那是一个较早的地方法律。但97仍然是纽约市为逐步实现205年完全碳中和的最终目标而设立的一系列建筑法规中的最新一个。所以你使用运动传感器和照明系统，当然是为了关灯，而且在若干分钟后，将你的暖通空调系统调至更高的温度。这被称为回退温度。因此，有很多很多方法可以减少温室气体排放。

It was an older local law. But still, 97 is the latest of a series of building blocks that New York City has been putting there to get more and more towards the final goal of 2050 to be total carbon neutral. And so you use your motion sensors and your lighting to, of course, turn off the lighting, but also, after so many minutes, getting your HVAC at a higher temperature. It's called a setback temperature. So there is many, many things that you can do in order to reduce your greenhouse emissions.

我想提到一个非常重要的方面，不幸的是，ESG多年来因为所谓的“绿色洗白”而蒙上了一层阴影。一些参与者摆出表面功夫，说哦，购买碳信用或其他什么，然后突然之间他们就声称自己符合目标和绿色排放等等。这通常是一种公关 facade，没有真正的具体行动。

One aspect I want to mention that is very important, unfortunately, ESG, over the years got kind of tinted because of what in jargon we we we call greenwashing. So players putting a facade and saying, oh, what are and buying carbon credits or whatever. And and now all of a sudden, they they they they are complying with with their targets and and the the green emissions and so on. And it's typically a PR facade. There is no really concrete action.

所以技术的美妙之处在于，我们有一个完整的云系统，收集所有这些信息，以图表形式呈现，可以获取这些信息并提供可操作的数据，还可以利用我之前提到的AI模型。因此，与其让设施经理消化这些信息，你可以有一个代理AI来控制你建筑的部分或参数，以优化温室气体排放。我认为拥有物联网、所有这些传感器，并由一家受尊敬的公司将这些信息上传到云端非常重要，因为这些信息不会被偏见影响，也无法以任何方式被篡改。所以如果你说，好吧，这是我的基线。

So the beauty of technology is that we have a a full cloud system that collects all this information, makes it represented in on graph, can take that information and give actionable, you know, data, can also have these AI models I was mentioning earlier. So instead of having, you know, this information being being digested by a facility manager, you can have an agentic AI that, like, control of parts of your building or or or parameters of your building to optimize that greenhouse emissions. I think it's very important to have this IoT and to have all these sensors and to have a respected company putting on the cloud this information because it's not information that's gonna be biased. It's not information that can be in any way altered. And so if you say, okay, this is my baseline.

在过去的五年里，我减少了25%的温室气体排放。如果你有第三方一直在日复一日、时复一时、年复一年地测量，并且我们拥有来自所有不同区域、所有不同数据点等的海量信息，并且完全可以证明你一直在这样做。你就克服了这种绿色洗白可能存在的灰色地带。有时人们会说，是的，但都是假的。

And on the last five years, I reduced 25% my greenhouse emissions. Well, if you have a third party that has been measuring, you know, day after day, hour after hour, month, year after year, and we have ton of information from, you know, all the different areas for all the different, you know, data points and so on. And we and it's totally demonstratable that you have been doing that. You overcome possible gray area of this greenwashing. And sometimes people say, yeah, but it's all fake.

是的，但这不是真的。是的，但太贵了。数据就是数据。我们是工程师。如果你在一个项目上投资25万美元，然后每年仅在电力和能源上就有12万美元的投资回报，你的投资回报率如此之高，而且你对环境做了如此多的好事，这不是观点问题。

Yes, but it's not true. Yes, but it's too expensive. Like, data are data. We are engineers. If you invest a quarter million dollars on a project and then you have a return on investment of $120,000 a year in just power and energy, and your return on investment is so much, and you are doing so good for your environment, that is not the opinion.

因此，我认为对于ESG目标，对于真正实现城市清洁和环境比我们过去三四十年留下的环境更清洁的轨迹的重要性，拥有一种能够绝对保证你这些是数据、这些是信息、这是我们迄今为止取得的进展的技术至关重要。

And so I think it's very important for ESG targets for the importance of the trajectory of really getting cities clean and environment cleaner than the environment that we have been leaving behind us for the last probably thirty, forty years, it's important to have a technology that can absolutely guarantee you, yes, these are the data. These are the information. And this is the progress that we we did so far.

是的。那太棒了。是数据。它就在那里。不是那么 是的。

Yeah. That's awesome. It's the data. It's there. It's not so Yeah.

你购买一个产品，它有评分。也许那不一定准确。可能是基于手动计算的，但至少有了数据，理想情况下它是全天候实时的。而且你拥有数据。这是真实的。

You buy a product, and it has a rating. Maybe that might not be true. Maybe based on hand calcs, but at least with the data, it's real time twenty four seven ideally. And you have you have the data. It's it's true.

这挺酷的。

That's pretty cool.

确实。

It is.

是的。数据有助于筛选掉主观意见，而且当你在考虑如何让建筑更环保、什么措施长期有效以及如何实现收支平衡时，总会有不确定性。但你无法与硬数据争辩。所以我真的很欣赏这一点。确实如此。

Yeah. Data kinda helps weed out the opinion, and and and there's uncertainty when you're looking at, you know, trying to make your building greener and and what actually has an effect in the long run and how it's all gonna pencil out. But you can't really argue with hard data. So I I really appreciate that. Exactly.

我想我们快接近尾声了。所以我想问，对于希望在建筑设计和运营中创新的结构工程师，你有什么最后一条建议想分享？

And I think we're we're moving towards the the end of this. So I wanted to ask, what's one final piece of advice you'd like to share with structural engineers looking to innovate in building design and operations?

现在有很多非常有趣的技术。作为工程师，每次出现新技术时，你都会经历这样一个阶段：对看到技术感到兴奋，尝试接触，意识到自己完全超出了舒适区，然后退缩，说‘我不会做的’。但之后你又会说‘不，我想走在前沿，我真的需要去做’。

There is a lot of very interesting technology out there. And as an engineer, it's fascinating how every time there is a new technology, you go through this phase of the excitement of the of seeing the technology, dipping your toe, realizing you are definitely out of your comfort zone, withdrawing, saying, I'm not going to do it. And then you say, no. I want to be cutting edge. I really need to do that.

然后你坚持下去，全身心投入。最终，你知道，你迈出大步，开始采用这项技术。所以让我们拥抱新技术，勇于实验。正如我们之前所说，有时技术还不成熟。这是我们作为早期采用者付出的代价，但作为早期采用者也有一种自豪感。

And then you push down, and you get on your entire feet. And finally, you know, you you you take the big jump, and you start adopting the the technology. So let's embrace, you know, newer technologies, and let's experiment. As we were saying earlier, sometimes technologies are not ready. It's the price that we pay as early adopters, but there is a a pride in being early adopters.

有时在别人看来你可能有点傻，但正是多亏了早期采用者，技术才得以主流化。所以让我们成为早期采用者。让我们有点胆量，帮助追随者达到我们有更好技术和更好结构的境界。这是很好的建议。

Sometimes you you look, like, kind of silly to others, but it's thanks to early adopters that then technology gets mainstream. So let's be early adopters. Let's have some guts, you know, and help, you know, the followers to to get where, you know, we we have better technology and better structures. It's good advice.

是的，是的。嗯，这确实非常有趣。你有很多真的很吸引人的信息，我需要好好消化一下，因为我们团队甚至也在稍微研究结构健康监测。所以我以后可能会给你打个电话。

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that that was certainly very interesting. You have a lot of really interesting information that I I gotta wrap my head around it because we've been looking at structural health monitoring even a little bit on my team. So I might be giving you a call down the road.

很好。如果我能以任何方式提供帮助，Alex，我随时在这里。

Very good. And if I can help in any way, Alex, I I'm here.

非常感谢。是的，那真是太棒了。感谢您分享您的愿景，感谢您分享您的见解，以及这次非常有启发性的对话。

Thanks so much. Yeah. That was really cool. Thanks for sharing your vision. Thanks for sharing your insights and for the really insightful conversation.

看到技术和人工智能领域存在哪些可能性，真的非常有趣。所以非常感激。

That was really interesting to see what possibilities there are in terms of technology and AI. So definitely appreciate it.

希望您喜欢今天的节目。我们非常乐意听取您的反馈、评论或问题。请访问 structuralengineeringchannel.com 进行留言。在那里，您会找到关键要点的总结以及节目中提到的任何资源或网站的链接。别忘了订阅 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您收听播客的任何平台。

I hope you enjoyed today's episode. We would love to hear your feedback, comments, or questions. To leave them, please visit structuralengineeringchannel.com. There, will find a summary of key points as well as the links to any of the resources or websites mentioned during the episode. Don't forget to subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

那么，在下次节目之前，我们祝愿您在所有的结构工程事业中一切顺利。

And until time, we wish you the best in all your structural engineering endeavors.