452：《用爱国主义和金色油漆拼凑起来的骗局》，与Quinn Nelson对谈

对，就是这样。

And it's like, yeah.

基本上就是这么回事。

That's that's basically it.

你在把能量转化掉。

You're converting energy.

中间呢，有一大堆GPU，最后出来的是解好的数独。

And in the middle, there's a lot of GPUs, and at the end comes out and solved sudokus.

那这就说到AI了。

And that brings us to AI.

不，

No.

我

I'm

开玩笑的。

just kidding.

不过手机是真实存在的。

Well but cell phones are real.

区别在于手机是真实的东西。

The difference is a cell phone is real.

手机网络也是真实存在的东西。

A cell phone network is a real thing.

人们拿到手机，就期望它能用。

People get a phone and they expect it to work.

它要么能用，要么不能用。

And it either does or it doesn't.

我觉得在这整个事情刚开始的时候，就有人觉得，这能有多难呢？

And I think at the outset of this whole endeavor, there were people who were like, how hard can it be?

我们造个手机就行了。

We'll make a phone.

还有人相信了那种说法，为什么我们不能在美国造一个呢？

And somebody bought into the whole, why can't we just make one in The United States?

能有多难呢？

How hard could it be?

结果他们错了。

And they turns out they were wrong.

然后我觉得，新年那会儿事情就闹大了，因为大家都在宣传，嘿。

And then I think what happened is shit got real around the New Year because the publicity around, hey.

他们收了一百美元的定金。

They took all these these $100 deposits.

如果你仔细看小字，如果你仔细看小字，其实上面写着他们不用退这些定金。

If you read the fine print if you read the fine print, it actually says that they don't have to give these deposits back.

所以人们真的，而且我，你知道，我当时想，我觉得他们最后会发一款手机。

And so people really and I, you know, I I thought, I think they're gonna ship some kind of phone eventually.

但我在想，如果他们一直留着那一百美元定金，然后说，随便吧，我会惊讶吗？

But I was like, would I be shocked if they just kept the $100 deposits in forever and said, whatever.

我不会，对这些人，我不会惊讶。

I wouldn't with these people, I wouldn't be surprised.

但我觉得有人在法律链条的某个环节意识到了，有些不是姓特朗普的人要为此负责。对。

But I think somebody realized in somewhere down the legal chain, there are people whose last names aren't Trump who were on the hook for Yeah.

为此。

For this.

是的。

Yep.

他们当时……而且……

And they were And

我读到的就是这个意思。

that's what it reads to me.

如果你看那个盒子和包装，很明显这是匆忙拼凑出来的东西。

If you look at the the box and the packaging, this was clearly something put together quickly.

是的。

Yep.

这不是他们一年前在做的那个手机。

This is not the phone that they were making a year ago.

这是最近几个月内发生的事。

This happened within the last few months.

但这是真实存在的东西。

But it is a real tangible thing.

有个对手机行业很懂行的人被请来当救火队员，他们就说，情况是这样的。

Somebody who knows their shit about the phone industry got called in and as a fixer, and they're like, here's the situation.

我们收到了这么多预订单。

We took these number of preorders.

我们告诉他们会得到这个。

We told them they'd get this.

然后这个人说，我们可以找一款HTC手机。

And this person said, well, we can find, like, an HTC phone.

我们给它贴牌。

We'll white label it.

我认识人。

I know somebody.

我们可以做一个定制的金色或黄色外壳。

We'll we can make a custom gold toned or yellow toned case.

这个我们可以做到500美元。

We can do this for $500.

我打赌他们不是。

I'll bet they're not.

我打赌他们大概在500美元上勉强保本，尤其是他们说的那个数量。

I'll bet they're, like, breaking even at $500 overall, especially the quantities they're talking about.

但大概每个买的人都会继续用这个47.45美元的计划，然后你就能赚到他们——

But presumably, everybody who is buying one is going to stay on this $47.45 plan, and and you'll make they'll

赚钱。

make money.

理论上是这样。

Theory.

反正钱主要是在那里赚的。

That's where the money is anyway.

对，没错。

And Yep.

所以，你知道，卖那个每月成本大概20或15美元的服务，然后每月从他们身上赚30美元，这其实挺不错的。

So, you know, sell what's costing them probably $20 or $15 a month in service and make $30 a month from them on this, and that's actually pretty good money.

但我觉得他们可能会选HTC手机，而不是那些传闻中更不靠谱的中国贴牌机。我觉得这真的归结为能力问题。

But somebody why I think they are probably going with the HTC phone as opposed to one of these sketchier Chinese kinda reskins that they were rumored to is is I I honestly think it comes down to competence.

如果他们能做到，他们可能早就做了，但他们需要的是组装精良、有良好口碑，而且能拿到所需订单量的产品。

If they could have done it, they probably would have, but they needed something that was gonna be pretty well put together and has a decent track record, and they could get in the order quantities they needed.

所以他们找了一家靠谱的公司，这家公司容易合作，而且有和西方合作的经验，他们不用从零开始。

And so they went to a real company that was accessible and has people that that's worked with the West and they don't have to start from scratch.

他们可以非常有信心，他们发货的手机不会预装间谍软件。

They can be pretty highly confident that the phones that they are gonna ship aren't gonna have spyware on them.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

就像，我在视频里也开了个玩笑。

Like, I I kinda made that joke in the video.

当时有很多人都在说，哎呀，这东西肯定装满了间谍软件。

There were all these there were all these people suggesting, oh, this thing's gonna be totally loaded with spyware.

之后呢，我把它拆了箱。

And after that, I unboxed it.

我说，不对。

I said, no.

这其实就是一部HTC手机。

This is just an HTC phone.

但是因为我想看看这个设备的引导加载程序是不是解锁的，所以我就装了一些软件来做数据包嗅探，看看它有什么网络活动。

But because I wanted to see the bootloader came unlocked on this device, and I ended up installing some software on it to do some packet sniffing and to see what network activity it was doing.

结果一切都很正常。

Everything was totally fine.

完全没问题。

All kosher.

根本没什么大不了的，跟我猜的一样。

No big deal at all, which I suspected.

但我也差不多是这么暗示的。

But I also kind of suggested

这就是为什么。

That's why

我喜欢这个。

I love it.

如果是便宜的中国设备，那可能真会出问题。

With a cheaper Chinese device, that actually might have been a problem.

不是因为特朗普集团或特朗普移动想监视他们的客户，而是因为无能导致的。

Not because the Trump organization or Trump Mobile wanted to spy on their customers, but as a consequence of incompetence.

比如，我觉得可能确实有不良的外国势力想这么做，但特朗普移动的人根本不会知道。

Like, I I think that a bad foreign actor might have actually tried to do it, but the Trump Mobile people wouldn't they wouldn't have been they would they wouldn't have even known.

所以他们可能就说，对。

And so they probably just said, yeah.

那就找个有名气、有口碑的来吧。

Let's go with someone who's reputable, who has a track record.

我们可以把这款产品推出市场，是的，我们不会靠它赚钱，但会在后续的套餐上赚回来。

We can get this thing out the door, and, yeah, we're not gonna make money off of it, but we will on the backside on the plan.

而且如果你相信他们网站的话，这只是临时的促销定价，T1 的手机价格不会随时间上涨。

And then if you believe their website, this is a a temporary promotional pricing and that the phone price of the t one won't go up over time.

我不这么认为。

I don't think so.

对。

But yeah.

我觉得他们其实希望人们忘掉这件事。

I think they would really just like for people to forget about it.

而且如果这个 MVNO 还能继续运营的话，他们可能会放弃定制手机，直接给用户提供其他手机，比如二手 iPhone。对。

And probably if it remains a going concern that the MVNO on an MVNO, that they're just gonna get away from their custom phones and just give people whatever phones, used iPhones Yep.

随便吧。

Whatever.

我是说，他们……

I mean, they're

已经在这么做了，你可以直接买一部 iPhone。

already doing that where you can just buy an iPhone.

实际上，这正是他们发现的事情之一，而且我敢肯定，那些来修复这个问题、用 HTC 做出真正手机的人，心里都在想：你们这些笨蛋。

It's actually what they've one of the things that they have found out and that I'm sure the who the person or persons who came in to fix this and make out make the real phone from HTC were like, you dumbasses.

手机根本不赚钱。

There's no money in phones.

只有苹果，可能还有三星，能在手机上赚钱。

Only Apple and maybe Samsung make money in phones.

就这些。

That's it.

其他人都赚不到钱。

And nobody else makes money.

人们拥有手机确实有钱可赚，但利润都在运营商那边。

There is money in people owning cell phones, but it all comes on the carrier side.

我觉得他们可能早就知道这一点了。

And I think they might have known this.

我觉得手机只是用来支撑网络的工具。

I think that the phone was the prop to prop up the network.

我的意思是，那是能登上头条的东西，金手机，美国制造。

I mean, that was the thing that was gonna grab the headlines, the gold phone, made in America.

我的意思是，如果他们当时站出来说，嘿。

I mean, that's if if if they had come out and said, hey.

特朗普家族，我们搞了个移动虚拟运营商。

The Trump family, we we got an MVNO.

没人会……手机才是让他们冲到世界前沿的东西，我觉得他们知道这一点，所以才这么做的。

Nobody would have It the the phone was what catapulted them into the front of the world, and I think they knew that, and that's why they did that.

现在特朗普移动已经存在了，手机只是那种推广的副产品，但它不是重点，从来都不是，将来也不会是。

And now that Trump Mobile's a thing, well, the phone exists as a byproduct of that kind of promotion, but that it's not the focus, and it never has been and it never will be.

而且，说实话，根据我和特朗普移动的人为了搞到那破玩意儿而交谈的情况来看，我估计他们那里总共不到五个人在干活。

And, frankly, it's probably based on the people that I've talked to at Trump Mobile in order to get the darn thing.

我怀疑他们那里反正也就不到五个人在上班。

I would suspect they have fewer than five people working there anyway.

而且我觉得那些人本来就已经在为Liberty Mobile工作了，所以他们的开销实际上几乎为零。

And I think they all already work for Liberty Mobile, and so their overhead is effectively zero.

所以我觉得Liberty Mobile的那帮人——这是我的猜测。

And so I think the Liberty Mobile guys this would be my suspicion.

这些都是猜测。

This is all speculation.

我没有任何证据来支持这个说法。

I have no evidence to back this up.

我想最有可能的是，Liberty Mobile的那帮人从中得到了最大的好处，而且我觉得他们可能也有点失望，因为事情并没有像他们希望或预期的那样发展。

I would suggest that it's most likely the Liberty Mobile guys that are getting the sweetest end of the deal, and I think they might even be a little disappointed that it's not panning out quite like they had hoped or expected either.

他们可能早点让有能力的人来负责那部T1手机，让它更火一些。

That they had maybe put competent people in charge of the t one phone earlier to make it more of a thing.

你懂吧？

You know?

而且，也许值得称赞的是，他的骗局有点像散弹枪式的，看看哪个能中。

And it is maybe to his credit that his scams are sort of a shotgun approach, see what sticks.

我觉得他们卖那些机械表没赚多少钱。

I don't think they made a lot of money selling those mechanical watches.

我也这么觉得。

Nor do I.

我不知道。

I don't know.

也许他们卖特朗普硬币赚得更多。

Maybe they made more money on the Trump coins that they've sold.

但是通过尝试各种东西，看看哪个能行，他们找到了加密货币这个，结果真的赚了数十亿美元。

But by trying everything and seeing what sticks, they found the cryptocurrency one, which actually made them billions of dollars.

如果你在几十次失败中能成功几次，那也挺好的。

And if you get a couple successes through dozens of failures, well, that's fine.

就把它加到特朗普的赌注清单里吧。

Just add it to the Trump stakes list.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

我记得有个人买了特朗普的机械表，你知道的，那种表也是金色的，看起来很像劳力士。

There was I forget there was somebody who bought the Trump mechanical watch that you know, which is sorta like, of course, also gold toned and looks very Rolex.

真的，看起来就像——你光闻味道就能闻出来，那种你在下曼哈顿从摆摊的人手里买到的劳力士。

Really looks just just you could just smell it that it smells like the type of Rolex you buy from a guy with a card table in Lower Manhattan.

对。

Yep.

你懂吧？

You know?

它里面装的是那种清仓大甩卖级别的机芯。

It's got, like, a bargain bin, Miata movement in it.

就是那种，

It's, like,

非常——他们造这块表可能成本都不到一百美元。

very you could they probably built the thing for less than a $100.

是某个本地人——我记一下，看看能不能在节目笔记里找到这个信息。

It was some local I I'll make a note and see if I can find it for the show notes.

不过有些地方新闻，有时候地方电视台的新闻反而能挖到最好的故事。

But there was some local local news somewhere who and I sometimes local TV news can make the get the best stories.

就像，嗯，对。

It's like Well, yeah.

但有个哥们儿给老婆买了个特朗普手机或者特朗普手表当生日礼物，结果还迟到了。

But some guy bought his wife a Trump phone or Trump watch for her birthday, and it was late.

当然啦。

It of course.

然后等东西到了，特朗普的标志是贴到表盘上的。

And then when it did arrive, the the Trump logo was with applied applied to the dial.

你知道那是什么意思吧，就是那种小，哦，对。

You know what that means, but they're like little Oh, yeah.

一个R和一个U，就像是用胶水粘在表盘上的。

An r and a u that are, like, glued onto the dial.

但我忘了，我发誓，可能是那个T。

But I forget I I swear to god, it might have been the the t.

我发誓，那个字母掉下来，在里面晃来晃去，结果就剩下“rump”这个词了。

I swear to god fell off and was rattling around in there, leaving the word rump.

但也许那是

But it maybe it was

那个“p”。

the p.

我不知道。

I don't know.

但有一个字母掉下来了，在里面晃来晃去。

But one of the letters fell off and was rattling around in there.

而且你猜怎么着？

And it didn't guess what?

它走时不准。

Didn't keep good time.

运河街的质量。

Canal Street quality.

一分钱一分货，或者不是，我猜。

You get what you pay for or not, I guess.

不过，总之，这个视频太棒了，我觉得它的观看量比你们平时的视频高很多。

But, anyway, the video is just magnificent, and it's it's I think it's much higher viewers than your typical videos.

你所有的视频都很好。

All of your videos are good.

但这个特别棒。

But this one's No.

我们，

We,

挖到金矿了。

struck gold.

没有双关的意思。

No pun intended.

我们觉得它会火，但连我都没想到它会这么火。

We thought it would do well, but I even I was surprised by how well it did.

制作这个视频真的很有趣，而且你知道，我们跟这个内容很有共鸣，这也是我有点担心的原因，因为我们跟它很有共鸣。

It was, it was a lot of fun to make, and, you know, we relate to the that's kinda why I was a little worried because we relate to it.

我们最终发布视频之前，手机在我手里差不多三个星期了，但我想确保一切都做得非常精致。

I had had the phone for almost three weeks before we finally published the video, but I wanted to make sure it was all really well nicely done.

我们发布视频的时候，iFixit 已经出过拆解视频了。

IFixit had already had a tear down by the time we put our video up.

视频其实早就拍好了，所以当我们发布的时候，我心里想，哎呀。

It was already all shot, but so when we put it up, I was like, oh, man.

这肯定不会有我期望的那么火，结果两天内就拿到了几百万的播放量，我记得。

This is not gonna do as well as I hoped, and then it got a couple million views in two days, I think.

所以，是的。

So yeah.

我这么说一点都不夸张。

I I mean this with no hyperbole.

真的，一点都不夸张。

I really do.

但我真的觉得，你们在视频上投入的精力、时间和协作努力，比当初制造那款Trump T1手机所花的全部心血还要多。

But I really do think that you put more work and time and a combined effort into your video than all of what went into making the Trump T one phone in the first place.

也许吧。

Maybe.

哪怕他们年初按了重置键，说干脆直接做HCC版本算了。

Even even when they hit the reset button at the beginning of the year and were like, let's just go to HCC.

我还是觉得，你们视频里体现出的用心程度和细节把控，远超他们的制作水准，这视频做得实在太棒了。

I still don't think it was as much effort or attention to detail as as went into your video, which is just excellent.

支持了更多的美国就业岗位和薪资水平。

Supported more American jobs and salaries.

那是一定的。

That's for sure.

好的。

Alright.

我先休息一下，感谢我们的第一位赞助商。

Let me take a break here and thank our first sponsor.

是我们的朋友Notion AI。

It's our friends at Notion AI.

Notion AI是一个由你的工作驱动的全能AI，所有功能都集中在一个地方。

Notion AI is the all in one AI powered by your work, and it's all in one place.

它能自动记录会议笔记，立刻找到你需要的具体内容，为你起草详细的文档，还能让你与最好的AI模型聊天。

It automatically captures meeting notes, instantly finds the exact content you need, drafts detailed docs for you, and lets you chat with the best AI models.

Notion AI刚刚为团队版提升了两倍的能力，使它成为工作中最好的AI工具。

Notion AI just became twice as powerful for Teams, making it the best AI tool for work.

AI会议笔记。

AI meeting notes.

现在我很幸运。

Now I'm lucky.

我的生活里其实没有太多会议，但我知道在现实世界中，有真正工作的人，会议是真实存在的，会议笔记也是真实存在的。

I live a life where I don't really have a lot of meetings, but I know that everybody out in the real world with real jobs, that meetings are a real thing and meeting notes are a real thing.

AI会议，而且市面上有无数种AI会议笔记解决方案。

AI meeting and there are zillion AI meeting notes solutions out there.

但是Notion的AI会议记录在协作和易用性方面简直完美。

But Notion's AI meeting notes is just perfect for collaboration and for ease of use.

它能捕捉会议中提出的每一个想法、每一个决定、每一个下一步行动。

It captures every idea, every decision, every next step that is proposed in the meeting.

所有内容都记录在Notion里，而你的团队本来就在用Notion进行协作和共享信息。

It's all captured in Notion, which is what your team is already using to collaborate and share shared information.

所以共享的会议记录就直接在Notion里，整个团队都能看到，并且可以立即投入使用。

So the shared meeting notes are right there in Notion ready for your whole team to share where they can be put to work right away.

而且AI还会在会议结束时跟进，会后马上给出建议的行动项，你可以根据需要采纳、忽略或调整。

And it even the AI will even follow-up at the end of the meeting with suggested action items immediately after the meeting, which you can take or leave or adjust as you want.

你不必完全听信AI的话。

You don't have to just take AI's word for it.

但是，嘿，这里有个例子。

Just but here's hey.

这确实是一份不错的行动项清单。

That's actually a good list of action items.

他们明白了，然后你就不用再操心了。

They got it, and then you don't have to think about it.

你可以捕捉任何内容，把它变成有条理、可搜索的笔记，包括常规小组会议、一对一谈话、讲座，甚至播客节目。

You can capture anything and turn it into organized searchable notes, including regular group meetings, one to one conversations, lectures, even podcast episodes.

你可以捕捉这期脱口秀节目，直接在Notion AI里得到总结。

You could capture this episode of the talk show and get it summarized right there in Notion AI.

它适用于任何会议平台，Zoom、Google Meet等等，或者只用你电脑的系统音频。

It works on any meeting platform, Zoom, Google Meet, etcetera, or just with your computer system audio.

比如，如果你在同一个房间里，用老式的方式，面对面开真正的会议，直接在你的设备上捕捉就行。

Like, if you're in a room together, the old fashioned way, having an actual meeting face to face, just capture it right on your device.

但如果你是远程开会，它也能和你可能使用的任何工具集成。

But if you're doing it remotely, it integrates with any tools that you might have.

在任何Notion页面上，或桌面端或移动端，只需输入斜杠meet，就能立即开始。

Just type slash meet on any Notion page or on desktop or mobile and get started instantly.

现在就去看看Notion，目前最好的工作AI工具，访问notion.com/talkshow。

Check out Notion, the best AI tool for work right now at notion.com/talkshow.

他们让我强调一下，那些字母都得是小写的。

And they want me to emphasize that all of those letters have to be lowercase.

Notion.com/talkshow。

Notion.com/talkshow.

全部小写字母，今天就试试这个强大的全能型Notion AI吧。

All lowercase letters to try the powerful all in one Notion AI today.

而且你用那个链接的话，就是在支持我们的节目。

And when you use that link, you are supporting the show.

好吧，关于特朗普的话题，我想就聊到这儿吧。

Well, there's that's enough to talk about Trump, I guess.

不过呢……

But it's

还有一件事。

One more thing.

而且，我想也是关于Notion的。

And and about Notion, I suppose.

Notion没给我钱，但我确实每天都在用Notion。

Notion's not paying me, but I do use Notion every day.

我刚才问Notion AI，我说特朗普那部手机是用什么拼起来的来着？

And I just asked Notion AI, what did I say the Trump phone was held together with?

因为你之前提到过。

Because you mentioned that earlier.

它居然在我的稿子里找到了。

And it found it in my script.

你说的是，引用一下，“一部靠爱国情怀和金漆拼凑起来的骗局”。

You said it was, quote, a scam held together with patriotism and golden paint.

就是这样。

There you go.

谢谢你，Ocean AI。

Thank you, Ocean AI.

它做到了。

It did it.

它做到了。

It did it.

是真的。

It's real.

那不是很厉害吗？

That isn't that amazing?

我，这……

I It's

挺酷的。

pretty cool.

我，我，我忘了他的原话，也懒得去查。

My I I forget his exact quote, and I can't be bothered to look it up.

但我朋友丹尼尔，红毛衣软件公司的，就是做Mars的那家，我们多年的好朋友。

But my friend Daniel of Red Sweater Software, the makers of Mars, a good long term personal friend.

但他几周前，或者可能就在WWDC之前，发了条推文，大意就是，AI爱好者太痴迷AI了，而AI怀疑者又太不信任AI了。

But he had a tweet a couple weeks ago or maybe right before WWDC that was basically like, the AI enthusiasts are way too into AI, and the AI skeptics are way too skeptical of AI.

而真相就在两者之间。

And the truth is somewhere in the middle.

这件事已经变得非常两极化了。

And it's just turned into such a polarizing thing.

但确实有一些地方令人惊叹。

But there is a there there that is amazing at times.

这就是一个完美的例子。

And that's a perfect example.

不。

No.

我一开始是个重度怀疑者，现在也仍然不认为它会改变我们生活的方方面面。

I'm a I've I started out as a heavy skeptic, and I still am not a believer that it will change every aspect and facet of our lives.

但认为它完全没用，那就太天真了。

But to think that it's completely worthless is naive.

是的。

It's a Yeah.

它确实是个东西。

It's a thing.

我完全同意。

I'm exactly on board with that.

我、你，还有丹尼尔，就我们三个人。

Me, you, and Daniel, only three three people.

说到人工智能，我想我们可以聊聊最近的热门话题，我对Mac原生应用特别感兴趣。

Well, speaking of AI, I guess we can roll into on the the more recently news topics is I've taken a great interest in the native Mac apps.

不知道你有没有注意到Daring Fireball上关于ChatGPT和Anthropic Claude的报道。

I don't know if you've noticed on Daring Fireball for ChatGPT and Anthropix Claude.

而且我早就知道这会来。

And while I'm in the and I knew this was coming.

之前有所谓的“超级应用”的预告，这名字真蠢，也是个危险信号。

There was the whole preannouncement of the quote, unquote super app, which is such a dumb name and such a red flag.

我当时就觉得，天哪。

And I felt like, my god.

这难道是在提前预测说，这将是一场灾难性的用户体验吗？这简直是我预言生涯中最容易猜中的事。

Is this predicting in advance that this is gonna be a disastrous user experience is the easiest pickings of my prognosticating professional life.

所以嘛，当然啦，它本来就会那样。你知道的，ChatGPT 的原生 Mac 应用、Electron 版的 Codex 应用，还有那个 Atlas 网页浏览器——那玩意儿是基于 Chromium 开发的，他们在那上面浪费了太多时间和金钱。

So I kinda and, of course, it was going to, you know, with a native app kit Mac app for ChatGPT and an electron Codex app and the whole Atlas web browser that was a Chromium thing that they had wasted so much time and money on.

显然，这些玩意儿才是那个所谓“超级应用”的基础，而不是那个 ChatGPT 原生应用。

Of course, those things were going to serve as the foundation of the super app, not the native app kit ChatGPT app.

不过，当我在写关于它的文章时，也就是他们发布它的时候，天哪，天哪，我本以为它会让我 personally 感到不爽，但我万万没想到，这可能会是 PC 行业历史上最没水准的大众市场应用发布？

But as I'm writing about it is when they unveiled it, and boy, oh, boy, did they they've I expected it to make me unhappy personally, but I did not expect it to be maybe the least competent launch of a mass market app in the entire history of the PC industry?

我……我在想一个例子。

I I'm I'm trying to think of an example.

我在想有没有更糟糕的例子。

I'm trying to think of an example that was worse.

我知道这个 Mac 应用的用户量没到十亿，但 ChatGPT 有十亿用户。

And they have I I know the Mac app didn't have a billion users, but ChatGPT has a billion users.

他们——对。

And they Mhmm.

他们真的搞砸了。

They really botched it.

我不知道你怎么看，但是

I don't know what you think, but

从里到外都很糟糕。

It was bad top to bottom.

我的意思是，他们的整个产品核心就是 ChatGPT，但新应用的表现完全不是这么回事，简直把 Chad 挤到了角落。

I mean, their whole entire product is ChatGPT, but you wouldn't know that based on the fact that the new app basically shoved Chad in a corner.

大家肯定都这么觉得。

And you're like, that that's what people do.

而且这些 AI 模型本身的特点就是，你通常不需要去切换上下文。

And the whole thing about these AI models anyways is that you often don't have to provide their context switching capable.

所以我得专门进某个模式才能用 Codex 或者干别的，这太奇怪了。因为以前的应用里，你只要开个聊天窗口说一声就行。

And so the fact that I have to go into a specific mode to do co work or Codex or any other is so weird because with the previous app, you could just go into a chat session and say, hey.

我想做这个操作。

I wanna do this thing.

然后我就会说，嘿。

And I would say, hey.

如果我们是在Mac上处理文件，我们真的应该切换到这种模式。

We really should if we're working on files on our on our Mac, we should move to this mode.

然后你就说，好的。

You go, okay.

它就直接搞定了。

It just does it.

现在这简直让人目瞪口呆。

And now it's just the flabbergasting.

我的天。

I man.

就连那个叫什么来着？

Even just the what was it called?

就是那些基础操作。

The blocking and tackling.

就是那些最基本的东西，对吧。

Just the the basics of, okay.

我们想给一个应用改个名字。

We would like to rename an app.

这确实挺难的，我知道玫瑰换个名字照样香，但给应用改名真的不容易。

And that's that's a tough I know it's a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet, but it is hard to rename an app.

有很多小细节，需要处理的技术层面的问题一大堆，而且你还得确保软件更新不出岔子。

There's just a lot of little things, and the list of things that you have to address are at a technical level are it's long, and you've want to make sure software updates go right.

然后还有整个营销方面，要和用户沟通。

And then there's the whole marketing angle of communicating with your users.

我们改了这款应用的名字。

We've changed the name of this app.

但我还真没听说过有人想把一个做某事的应用改成另一个做完全不同事情的应用的名字。

But I can't recall anybody ever wanting to to change the name of an app that does x into the existing name of an app that does something almost entirely Yes.

是的。

Yes.

更糟的是，还让你选，嘿。

And to make matters worse, to to let you choose, hey.

你是想要旧图标，还是保留这个图标，或者你想怎么办？

Do you want the old icon, or do you wanna keep this icon, or what do you wanna do?

现在叫ChatGPT，但骨子里其实是Codex。

It's ChatGPT now, but it's actually kinda Codex under the covers.

但你可以用新的ChatGPT标志，也可以用旧的Codex标志。

But you you use the new ChatGPT logo, but you can also use the old Codex logo.

你心里想，这是在搞什么？

You're like, what are we doing here?

还有你写的那段，最让我有同感的是，当你下载新版本的应用，把它挂载成镜像，打开后，不是提示你拖到应用程序文件夹，而是直接说，双击这个应用。

And with your bit, the bit you wrote about that got me is that when you download the new version of the app and mount it as an image on you open the thing up and rather than be prompted to drag it to the applications folder, it just says, double click this app here.

但那样做只是打开了另一个实例

But all that does is open another another instance

这个独立应用的实例。

Of this separate app.

至少在他们发布这个1.0版本的时候，我不太清楚具体的版本号是多少，但那个1.0的新版ChatGPT其实就是改名后的Codex，它把真正的聊天功能缩到了角落里。他们推出的这个Mac应用提示说双击即可打开。

And at least as they shipped the one point o of this, I don't know what the version numbers are, but the one point o of the new ChatGPT that's re the renamed Codex and that has that had ChatGPT itself, the actual chat tucked into a corner, and they shipped this Mac app that said double click this.

据我理解，如果你之前已经在Mac上安装了ChatGPT和Codex应用，直接双击的话，它就会把你的Codex更新为ChatGPT，也就是改个

As best I can understand it, if you already were a user of ChatGPT and Codex apps on your Mac and you just double clicked it, then it would update your codecs to be ChatGPT, the

名字而已。

name.

明白了。

Okay.

它会把你原来的 ChatGPT 应用替换成 ChatGPT 经典版。

And it would replace your old ChatGPT app with ChatGPT classic.

不过前提是你之前已经同时安装了这两个版本。

But that's if and only if you already had both of those installed.

当然，官方根本没提过这回事。

And, of course, they didn't say anything like that.

他们只说了双击这个就行。

All they said is double click this.

我自己其实从来没装过Codex。

Now I personally had never installed Codex.

我还没真正涉足AI这个领域，虽然Ben Thompson老跟我说我应该试试。

I just I'd I've never gotten into that whole area of AI yet even though I'm dithering Ben Thompson's always telling me I should.

我确实想试试。

And I do want to.

真的想，因为我可是有计算机科学学位的。

I really do because I mean, I even have a computer science degree.

你知道，我可以用这个来做软件。

I, you know, I can use this to to make software.

我一直想试试，而且对于聊天驱动的工具，我一直是ChatGPT的用户，不是Claude的。

And I've been meaning to try it, and I have been a ChatGPT man, not a Claude man for chat driven stuff.

所以我可能本来会先试试Codex。

So I probably was going to try Codex first.

即使经历了这些，我可能还是会试，但我确实从没装过Codex。

I still might even after all of this, but I'd never installed Codex.

所以我只是双击了它，结果它只是又启动了一个版本。

So all I did was double click it, and all it all it did was launch a second version.

这就是我作为用户的体验。

This is my experience as a user.

它在我的程序坞里启动了另一个 ChatGPT 版本，而且我能看到，旧的那个还在运行。

It launched a second version of ChatGPT in my dock, and I could see and I still had the old one running.

然后新的那个跳了一会儿，就消失了。

And then the new one just bounced for a bit, and then it disappeared.

我去应用程序文件夹里看了看，只有一个应用，名字就叫 ChatGPT，但那是旧的那个。

And I went and looked in my applications folder, and there's one app, and it wasn't called it was just called ChatGPT, but it was the old app.

没有新应用，也没有叫 Classic 的应用。

And there was no new app and no app named Classic.

我启动了它，结果它甚至没有更新。

And I launched it, and it wasn't even updated.

它还是大概一周前的那个版本。

It was the one from, like, a week before.

然后我就把那个应用退出了。

So then I quit that app.

我之所以在程序坞里看到两个，是因为我在启动新版本时，旧版ChatGPT还在运行着，我当时也不知道该怎么办。

I the reason I saw them both in my doc is I'd left ChatGPT running when I launched the new one, which I I didn't know what to do.

如果当时需要把它拖到应用程序文件夹里，我就知道该怎么做了。

I if I had had to drag it to the applications folder, I would have known I need.

所以我退出后，又重新启动了它。

So I quit it, then launched it again.

它确实更新了 ChatGPT 应用，但没把它改名为 Classic。

And I it it updated my ChatGPT app, but didn't rename it to classic.

所以我至少去看了软件更新，但它还是没改名成 Classic。

And so at least if I went to software updates, but it didn't rename it to classic.

我就在想，那我该怎么用这个呢？

And I'm like, well, how do I get this?

怎么弄呢？

How do it?

然后答案呢，我甚至写了篇文章。

And the answer, I even wrote a post.

我觉得我甚至把问号都写进标题里了。

Like, I think I even put the question mark in the title.

如果你没有自动收到ChatGPT经典版，你怎么才能拿到它？

How do you get the ChatGPT classic app if you didn't get it automatically?

而且没有任何文档。

And there's no document.

我甚至引用了它。

I even quoted it.

他们网站上有一篇帮助文档，上面写着：升级后，你可能会同时拥有ChatGPT经典版和ChatGPT。

There was a help document on their website that was like, after you upgrade, you may have both ChatGPT classic and ChatGPT.

但他们没说为什么你可能会或可能不会，因为我觉得他们自己也不确定。

And they didn't say why you may or may not because I'm not sure they knew.

我们从来没见过这种情况，而且再说一遍，这家公司目前是私有制的，但他们自称估值接近一万亿美元，有十亿用户，而这就是他们发布旗舰产品更新的方式。

It's we've never seen any and again, this is a company with it's a privately held at the moment, but it's their their self proclaimed valuation is around a trillion dollars with a billion users, and this is how they launched an update to their flagship product.

这是未公布的。

It is It's unannounced.

真是令人震惊。

Flabbergasting.

对。

Yep.

而且你说得对，这个设计是给同时安装了ChatGPT和Codex的人用的，他们可能根本没做测试。我敢打赌OpenAI里没有一个人没装Codex。

And on your point, the fact that it was designed for people that had both ChatGPT and Codex installed, they probably didn't even QA it with I I bet there's not a single person that works at OpenAI that doesn't have Codex.

所以他们可能从没在没有Codex的机器上运行过，所以他们根本不知道会发生什么。

So they probably never even ran it on a machine without Codex installed, so they had no idea what's gonna happen anyway.

而且ChatGPT和Codex都没发现这个问题。

And they've And ChatGPT and Codex didn't catch it.

一周后，他们算是修好了，现在好像两个都能有了。

A week later, they kind of fixed this, and it seems like now you can get both.

他们算是清理了一下，也做了一些工作，是的。

They've kind of cleaned it up, and they've done some work Yeah.

侧边栏里做了一些明显的调整，现在确实有一个顶层的聊天入口了。

Some obvious work in the sidebar so that there's actually a top level chat.

现在聊天记录在侧边栏底部。

Chats are in the sidebar now in the bottom.

他们把聊天记录放在你所有的 Codex 项目下面，说实话挺烦人的，但至少还在那儿。

They push it below all of your Codex projects, which is honestly pretty annoying, but they're there.

然后，对，最让我恼火的就是 Codex 和那个叫什么来着？

And, yeah, that's the thing that's the most frustrating to me is that Codex and what do they call it?

他们叫它工作区，还是那个已经堵了？

Do they call it work, or is that clogged?

工作区。

Work.

不。

No.

就是工作区。

It is work.

它们还是会在列表里出现。

They still they they appear in line.

但就像你说的，它们的功能不一样。

But, again, like you mentioned, they're not the same function.

我是说，我有个ChatGPT工作流，每天早上用Spark命令行工具处理我的邮箱，自动分类整理，帮我准备好一切。

I mean, I have a I have a ChatGPT worker setup that goes through my email inbox using the Spark CLI every morning and cleans up my email inbox and preps it for me with automatic tagging and everything.

这很棒。

It's great.

我很喜欢。

Love it.

但现在它和我电脑上用Codex开发的其他应用优先级一样了。

But it is now kind of of equal priority to other apps that have been developed using Codex on my machine.

你会觉得，这根本不是一个级别的，因为一个是编程大脑，另一个是用现成的MCP代理。

And you're like, this is not even they're not even the same ballpark because one is Coding Brain and one is using kind of agentic preexisting MCPs.

它们都被混在一起，真是奇怪。

It's just bizarro that they're all thrown into this.

然后，对。

And then Yeah.

他们就说，哦，对。

They're like, oh, yeah.

然后如果你想聊天，就在底部。

And then if you wanna chat, it's just at the bottom.

所以我一直在做，这大概也是他们想要的。

So I have been doing and it's probably what they want.

我一直在用chat.com去用ChatGPT当聊天机器人，我真的很崩溃，因为六个月前，他们还有一个超棒的原生Mac应用。

I've been going to chat.com to freaking use ChatGPT as a chatbot, and I'm just devastated because you go back six months ago, and they had an amazing, native, excellent Mac app.

现在呢

And now

为什么不学我，就用经典版ChatGPT呢？

Why not just do what I do and just stick with ChatGPT classic?

我可以啊。

I could.

我就是讨厌有两个功能一样但界面不同的应用。

I just hate having two apps that are the same but different.

因为……而且我用Spotlight启动所有东西，对吧？

Because it's And I use Spotlight to launch everything?

对，你想要ChatGPT。

That's, yeah, you want ChatGPT.

我就说，不。

I'm like, no.

不。

No.

不。

No.

我要经典版。

I want a classic.

所以我得重新训练我的大脑。

So I have to retrain my brain.

想要那个的时候，就打“classic”。

Type classic when you want that.

不。

Nah.

现在叫ChatGPT classic的那个老版本，对系统资源和内存的占用要轻得多。

The old end of the one that's now called ChatGPT classic is much lighter on system resources and memory.

但如果你反正要用另一个，因为你已经在用Codex了，那感觉就是，我最后需要做的就是把宝贵的RAM分给……对。

But if you are gonna be using the other one anyway because you were using Codex already, it does feel like, well, the last thing I need to do is give more of my precious RAM to Yeah.

去运行……没错。

To running Right.

而且我已经开着浏览器了。

And I already have a browser open.

这挺有意思的。

It is funny.

这算是……这不是我对Electron最大的抱怨。

That is sort of the it's not my biggest complaint about Electron.

说实话，内存消耗其实不是最大的问题，真正的问题是缺少原生界面风格和支持。

Honestly, the RAM consumption, it it's really the lack of native UI idioms and support for them.

但是，这只是一方面。

But the the it's a list.

这，这，这说起来话长了。

It's a it's it's a long list.

而且其中就包括内存消耗。

And on there is the memory consumption.

而且我觉得，在计算机历史上，我找不到任何例子，像这样两头都占的。对。

And it does seem I again, I can't think of any comparison in the history of the computer world where they're responsible on both ends Yep.

一方面，是人工智能热潮在建设数据中心，把别人都挤出了有限的真实内存供应，导致了前所未有的内存短缺，价格也被推高了。

On the one end, it is the AI mania building out data centers that has consumed they're they're outbidding everybody else for the limited supply of actual RAM, which has created this unprecedented RAM shortage that has driven up prices.

而且即使价格被推高了，还是出现了产品短缺。

And even with the driven up prices has created product shortages.

现在还是这样。对。

There are still Yeah.

比如Mac mini的配置，你都买不到。

Configurations of, like, Mac minis that you cannot get.

我觉得你买不到内存超过96GB的Mac mini，大概是这样。

You I don't I don't think you can get a Mac mini with more than 96 gigabytes of RAM or something.

对。

Yep.

以前配置高得多，现在你去eBay看看。

And it used to be a lot more, and now you go to eBay.

有人想卖掉配置很高的Mac Studio，内存比现在能买到的还大，价格跟宝马差不多。

And people are trying to sell loaded out Mac studios with more RAM than you can get today for, like, the price of a a BMW.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

我不知道有没有人买，但如果你真的需要512GB内存，苹果那边你是买不到的。

I don't know if people are buying them, but if you really need 512 gigabytes of RAM, you you cannot get it from Apple.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

这都是因为AI热潮。

It's all from AI mania.

当然，不能完全怪他们。

Certainly, you can't blame them entirely for the mania.

那些变得狂热的人也要负一些责任。

It's the the people who've become maniacs bear some responsibility.

但在用户端，他们推出的应用在本地提供的功能，占用的内存远超应有水平。

But then on the user side, they are pushing apps that use way more RAM on your personal computer than they should for the functionality they provide locally.

所以他们在推高个人设备对内存的需求，而他们正是价格飙升和缺货的罪魁祸首。

So they're driving up demand for RAM on your personal device while they're the ones to blame for the price increase and shortage.

没错。

Correct.

我理解他们选择Electron作为框架。

And I understand going with Electron as a framework.

它用起来很方便。

It's easy to use.

它更具可扩展性。

It's more scalable.

它跨平台，不依赖特定平台。

It's multi platform agnostic.

不过，他们已经费心打造了一款出色的原生Mac应用。

However, they already went to the effort of building an excellent native Mac app.

就是说，它已经完成了。

Like, it it was already done.

我确实觉得，

I do think,

对，是的。

like yeah.

嗯，我

Well, I

总是回到这个话题。

keep coming back to it.

而且你知道，这是一个更大、更广泛的问题。

And I you know, it's it's a bigger, broader question.

这又回到了你提出的那个问题，或者我们之前聊过的，关于AI到底处在哪个位置——是整个世界因为AI而彻底改变，还是AI完全是个骗局。

And it gets to a point that you raised about or or that we talked about about where on the spectrum of, oh, the whole world is different now because of AI or AI is entirely a scam.

根本没什么实质内容。

There's nothing to it.

它就是个抄袭引擎。

It's just a rip off engine.

什么都没有。

There's nothing.

我百分之百确信这两种极端的观点都是错的。

I'm a 100% convinced that both of those polarized views are wrong.

真相在中间。

The truth is in the middle.

但对我来说，这两家公司现在的情况真的非常有意思。

But to me, it is really, really interesting with both of these companies at this point.

但特别是Anthropic，这是我最早写到的，他们用了Electron。如果他们编程那么厉害，而且你也提到了这一点。

But at Anthropic in particular, which is the one I wrote about first with their use of electron, where if they're so good at coding and one of the you even mentioned it.

其中一个主要原因，而且可以理解的是，无论组织大小，出于不同原因，他们都想采用一次编写、到处运行的解决方案。

One of the main reasons and and it is understandable that why organizations big or small for different reasons would want to go with a write once run everywhere solution.

这在计算领域一直是个反复出现的话题，可以追溯到最早编写程序的时候。

This has been a recurring thing in computing as all the way back to when writing programs was first.

那时候我们不叫它们应用。

We didn't call them apps.

它们叫程序。

They were programs.

但就像C语言的ANSI标准，你可以按照ANSI标准写代码，然后把同一个C程序移植到不同版本的Unix或其他平台上，仍然能编译，因为你按标准写的。

But the idea of having the the ANSI standard for c so that you could, you know, write your code to the ANSI standard and then move the same c program to a different version of Unix or a different platform than Unix and still have it compile because you wrote it to the standard.

类似这样的努力一直都有，而且是有道理的。

There have been efforts like this, and it makes sense.

为什么非要为每台运行的电脑重写程序呢？

Why in the world you wanna rewrite the program for every computer it runs on?

但如果AI写程序这么厉害，为什么他们不能用Claude做一个原生的Mac版Claude应用，来证明他们到底有多厉害呢？

But if AI is so good at writing programs, why in the world can't they make it existence proof of how good they are by using Claude to make a native Claude Mac app.

如果是的话，对。

And if it's Yes.

他们的理由是，我们不想在Mac这个平台上花这么多时间和资源，但答案不应该是你的AI能做到吗？

The argument is we don't want to spend all this time and all these resources on a platform just for the Mac, but it shouldn't isn't the answer that your AI can do it?

我觉得事实是做不到。

And I think the the evidence is no.

它做不到。

It can't.

他们确实擅长生成代码。

They are good at generating code.

我认识一些人。

And I know people.

我用ChatGPT写过脚本，也写过一些能用的脚本。

I've written scripts, and I've written things with ChatGPT that are functional scripts.

我能看到，而且我有好朋友在用这个来帮助他们开发应用。

I can see it, and I have close friends who are using it to help them make apps.

但我不知道有谁完全用这种方式做出了一整个应用。

But I don't know anybody who's made an entire app this way.

就算有，规模也非常有限。

Or if they have, it is really limited in scale.

它可能有用，也可能很巧妙，但并不是那种——嘿，

And it might be useful and clever, but it's not, hey.

这就是Claude Mac版的完整替代品，而且完全由Claude自己写的。

Here's an entire replacement for Claude for the Mac, and it was entirely written by Claude.

我觉得目前这还做不到。

That I don't think that can happen at this time.

如果他们想证明我错了，他们应该

And if it and if they wanna prove me wrong, they should

比他们愿意投入的监督还要多。

oversight than they're willing to allocate.

我觉得主要问题就是他们根本不在乎。

I think that's the main issue is they just don't care.

这听起来挺让人失望的，但现实可能就是：虽然技术上可行，但这并不是他们的优先事项，而且他们心里清楚，就算不这么做，大家照样会用这个产品。

And I think that's a a pretty sad condemnation, but I think that's probably the reality is even even though it's possible, it's just not a priority, and they know that people are gonna use the product anyway.

所以对他们来说，只要能更快、更轻松地实现规模化就行。

And so there's just whatever's easier for them to scale more quickly and rapidly.

如果他们能减少排队等待，不用维护多个二进制文件，也不用测试那么多平台，只要写一次就能在所有地方运行，那他们肯定就会选这种方式。

And if they have to do less queuing and if you don't have multiple binaries and have to test multiple platforms and you can just do it once everywhere, then that's what they're gonna do.

不过挺讽刺的，这些工具的一个卖点就是能把一种语言的代码轻松翻译成另一种语言，从一个平台转到另一个平台，但它们自己却做不到。

But it is it is a bit ironic that one of the selling points of these tools is how easy it makes at taking code in in one language and translating it to another and from one platform to the next, and they but they don't.

而且我觉得，这部分原因确实在于，你仍然需要专业知识。

And and part of it, it really is, I think, a, you need the expertise still.

那些最能做出优秀 Mac 应用的人——无论是开发全新应用、重写现有应用，还是用 AI 给应用添加新功能——都是资深的 Mac 开发者。

The per people who are best able to make a great Mac app, whether it's an all new app or just rewrite an existing app or add new features to an app using AI are expert Mac developers.

在 iOS 上也是如此，只有本身具备实力的 iOS 开发者，才能让 AI 极大地加速他们的产出能力。

Or if to do it on iOS to already be a talented iOS developer, in their hands, AI can accelerate greatly what they're capable of producing.

而且有些根本不是开发者的人也在做这件事，但他们很上心。

And there are people who are not developers at all who are doing this, but they care.

我觉得是杰森·斯内尔，我忘了那个应用叫什么名字，好像是叫Double Ender。

I think Jason Snell I forget the name of the I think it's called Double Ender is the name of the app.

那是一个播客录制应用，就像现在你和我正在录制的这种双端录制，你本地录你的音，我本地录我的音，然后音频会交给我编辑的手里。

It's a a podcasting solution app where you and I right now are actually recording a Double Ender where you're recording audio locally and I'm recording audio locally, and then it's gonna go to the hands of of my editor.

他需要把这两条音轨对齐，而这款Mac应用就是以非常Mac风格的方式来做这件事的。

And he would like to align those two tracks, and it's a Mac app that does this in a very Mac ass way.

它只做这一件事，而且做得非常好。

Does this one thing and does it really well.

杰森不是Mac开发者，但他是个……嗯。

And Jason is not a Mac developer, but he's a Mhmm.

他懂行。

He knows the idiot.

他很在意。

He cares about

它有着纯正的 Mac 应用风格，所以能精准地实现这个功能。

The idioms of being a Mac ass Mac app, and therefore was able to direct it to do this.

对他来说，做成网页应用然后把文件拖进界面可能更省事，但他坚持要做原生 Mac 应用，因为他在乎用户体验。

And it probably would have been easier for him to make it a web app and just drag the files into a web interface, but he wanted a native Mac app because he cares.

Glenn Fleishman 写了一个叫 Mister Plimsol 的应用，名字大概是这个，是个非常精巧的小工具。

And Glenn Fleishman wrote an app called mister Plimsol, which I think that's the name of it, but it's super clever little app.

你可以把它设置成这样：嘿。

And you could just set it up to say, hey.

注意下我 Mac 上的这个硬盘。

Pay attention to this drive on my Mac.

当它快满到这个百分比的时候，告诉我一声。

And when it gets to this percentage full, tell me.

因为也许你有个硬盘专门存着视频之类的东西。

Because maybe you have a drive where you store yeah.

你可能有个硬盘用来存视频，它很快就会塞满。

You might have a drive where you store video, and it can fill up very quickly.

而且你会希望在还没到那个错误时间之前，就知道已经用了85%的容量。

And you would like to know before the wrong time that you've reached 85% capacity.

这是一个非常Mac风格的应用。

It's a very Mac app.

格伦再次强调，他是个程序员，虽然写过不少程序，但他并不是Mac开发者。

And Glenn is again, he's a programmer, and he's written programs over time, but not a Mac developer.

但他很用心。

But he cares.

当然。

Sure.

他确实很在意这些细节，所以才能做到。

And he's bit he cares about the of it, and therefore, he's able to do it.

而且很明显，如果Anthropic的人真的在乎优秀的原生Mac应用，他们就不必等到Claude能做出这样的应用。

And, obviously, if anybody at Anthropic really cared about great native Mac apps, they wouldn't have had to wait for Claude to be capable of making one.

他们一开始就会自己做一个。

They would have made one in the first place.

而且几年前，OpenAI 那边有人挺上心的，专门组了个团队，做出了一个原生应用，还挺不错的。

And somebody at OpenAI cared enough a couple years ago that they put a team together at OpenAI to make a a native pretty good.

我是说，我夸它是因为我在拿它跟 Claude 和其他只能在浏览器里跑的东西比。

I mean and it's like, I sing the praises of it because I'm comparing it to Claude and everything else that it only runs in a browser.

对。

Sure.

其实它并不是一个特别好的 Mac 应用。

It's actually not a great Mac app.

从来都不是。

It never has been.

比如，对我来说，一个 Mac 应用的关键就是能打开应用里的任何元素。

Like, one of the things that to me just defines a Mac app is being able to open whatever the the element of the app is.

你应该能把它单独开成一个窗口。

You should be able to open that into a window on its own.

就像 Apple Notes 那样。

So Apple Notes.

你可以打开苹果备忘录，找到一条笔记，双击它，它就会自己弹出一个窗口。

You can go into Apple Notes, find a note, and double click on the note, and it opens opens into into a a window on its own.

你可以打开苹果邮件，找到任何一封邮件或一个邮件线程，在邮件列表里双击它，你猜怎么着？

You can go to Apple Mail and find any mail message or a thread of them and double click on it in the list of messages, and guess what?

它就会自己弹出一个窗口。

It opens into a window on its own.

还有苹果的信息应用，他们几年前用 Catalyst 重写了它。

And even messages from Apple, which they rewrote using Catalyst a couple of years ago.

当他们宣布要这么做的时候，我心想，换句话说，就是把 iPad 版的信息搬到 Mac 上。

And when they announced that they were gonna do that, I was like, in other words, bring sort of the iPad version of messages to the Mac.

我当时担心它会失去很多 Mac 的原生感觉。

I got worried that it was gonna lose a lot of its Mac acidness.

但实际上，他们发布的版本确实比它取代的那个更好用，还支持 AppleScript。

And in actuality, it's the the version that they shipped is actually it was actually a better Mac app than the one that it replaced, including support for Apple script.

我虽然不常用 AppleScript 操作信息应用，但……

It had all I've I don't use Apple scripts against messages often, but

我有几个

I have a couple of

要做的事情。

things I do.

我有几个运行时间很长的脚本，我想知道它们的进度。

I have a couple of scripts that run for a long period of time, and I wanna know about the progress.

然后几年前，我写了一个东西，在运行的时候给我自己发一条短信。然后我可以走开，然后我的手机，比如每半小时，就会收到一条来自我自己的进度消息，因为AppleScript会向我的iMessage ID发送一条消息，包含这个文本和这个状态更新。

And then years ago, I I just wrote a thing that just sends a text message to myself in messages while it's running, and then I can walk away and then my phone, like, every half hour gets a progress message from myself with the thing because Apple Script says send a message to my iMessage ID with this text and this status update.

所有这些都继续正常工作。

All of that continued to work.

你猜怎么着？

And guess what?

当你在“信息”中双击一个聊天时，你猜会发生什么？

When you double click on a chat in messages, guess what happens?

它会打开成一个独立的窗口。

It opens up into a window on its

自己的窗口。

own.

第二点。

Second.

你猜在经典版ChatGPT里你永远做不到什么？

Guess what you can never have done in ChatGPT classic.

你没法把它打开成独立的窗口。

You cannot open into a window on their own.

这到现在还是让我抓狂。

And it drives it still drives me crazy.

但我不想抱怨太多，因为它比任何其他AI聊天应用都好太多了。

But I don't wanna complain too much about it because it's such a better app than anything else that does chat style interaction with AI.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

说实话，Cloud（克劳德）能这么差劲，还真挺让人佩服的。

It's it's it's honestly kind of impressive how bad Cloud is.