#102：“冰人”维姆·霍夫

但我们现在已经有一种方法，能够接入第三层，使特异性的适应性免疫系统在病原体入侵后也能迅速激活。

But we have now a method that is able to tap into the third layer and make the nonce, the specific adaptive immune system, rapidly active even after something comes in.

所以它既有预防作用，当你感到生病时——也就是说，病原体已经侵入体内——它也能发挥作用。

So it's both preventive, but it is also when you feel you become sick, so an invader has gotten in Mhmm.

你仍然能够很好地恢复体内的平衡。

Then you are still very able to restore the balance within.

明白了。

Got it.

对。

Yes.

如果我们来看科学家目前对你和你的受试者自我保护或屏蔽能力的解释，似乎有一种假设是，你能提高体内去甲肾上腺素或去甲肾上腺素的水平。

And the if if we're looking at the the explanation that the scientists have at this point for your ability and your subject's ability to protect themselves or shield themselves, It seemed like one hypothesis was you being able to increase, I think, noradrenaline or norepinephrine levels in the body.

对。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

你同意这个观点吗？还是认为有其他可能性？是的。

Do you agree with that, or do you think there are other do you have other Yes.

理论？

Theories?

我同意。

I do.

我同意。

I do.

我非常想了解，这其实是

I'd love to It's

这就像得了艾滋病毒，免疫系统会一直试图寻找答案，直到某一刻再也无法准确识别发生了什么，这时就发展成了艾滋病。

not it's it's like if you have HIV and then the immune system is still looking for answers up till a moment that it is not able to specify anymore what's going on, and then we get AIDS.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这意味着所有的防御系统都关闭了。

That that means that all the defense systems are shut down.

现在我们通过去甲肾上腺素和肾上腺素证明，我们可以抑制炎症。

Now we have shown by norepinephrine and noradrenaline adrenaline that we can suppress the inflammation.

这意味着炎症因子引发免疫反应，而我们对此进行了抑制。

That means the inflammatory bodies and creating an immune response, and we suppress it.

这相当于关闭了免疫系统。

That would be like shutting down the immune system.

这让我们遵循了科学逻辑。

That makes us following the scientific logic.

这使我们更加脆弱。

That makes us more vulnerable.

不。

No.

我们正在做的，他们还需要进一步研究，但我只是运用我的自然逻辑，你可以在论文中读到，我们找到了一种方法来激活第三条防线，而通常这条防线需要数周或数月才能找到特定的激素或分子，然后这些分子会作用于靶细胞，附着在细胞膜上并杀死细胞。

What we do, and they still gotta find out, but I just use my natural logic, and you can read a poem in the in the in the in the papers, that we have found a way to awaken the third line, which normally takes weeks or months to to find a specific hormone or molecule, which then is going for the target cell to go on the membrane and to kill the cell.

这很有趣。

So that's interesting.

这简直就像是内部药物研发。

It's it's it's almost like internal drug development.

你正在寻找能匹配正确锁的钥匙，抱歉，你是内部完成这个过程的。

You're trying to find the lock that, I'm sorry, the key that fits the proper lock, but you're doing it internally.

是的。

Yes.

通常，生物学上需要很长时间才能做到这一点。

Normally, it takes a very long time biologically to Yes.

总之，但你正在加速这个过程。

To to sort of to conclude with, but you're accelerating that process.

没错。

Exactly.

然后这些激素就不需要了，因为特定的激素或分子会到达细胞膜，接着所有这些像‘火线人员’一样的物质——即去甲肾上腺素——会遍布全身，肾上腺素也是如此，它们会抑制炎症反应。

And then these hormones are not needed anymore because the specific hormone the specific molecule gets on the cell membrane, and then all this, like, fire people, which is noradrenaline, gets throughout the system and the epinephrine as well, and they suppress the inflammation, the the the action.

但只有当目标已经被彻底消灭时，这才可能实现。

And but that is only possible when the the target is already annihilated.

当目标表面由于第三道防线而具有特定分子时。

When the target has a specific molecule on it because of the third line of defense.

对。

Right.

这就是我们发现的。

And that's that's what we found.

我们找到了一种方法。

We found a way.

而且这还是一位医生。

And it's also Doctor.

来自纽约曼哈塞特的凯文·特雷西博士，他自称是生物化学领域的权威。

Kevin Tracy from Manhasset, New York, who tells that he is very much he's an authority in the biochemistry.

我在2007年与他合作过，当时我在他的研究所成功抑制或影响了迷走神经。

And I worked with him in 2007, and I showed I was able in his institute to suppress or to influence the vagus

那就是迷走神经。

which is Oh, that's the vagus nerve.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yes.

现在他在《自然》杂志上表示，免疫系统的作用离不开神经调节。

And now he told in nature, he told immunity does not come without neural regulation.

他们找到了一种方法。

They found a way.

那么你现在，比如，我曾经在大学里短暂地读过本科。

So what do you now, for instance, I was I did my undergraduate for a very short period of time.

在大学时，我学习过神经科学。

In college, I studied neuroscience.

我记得上大学时，有一位教授发现，比如海马体中的神经元实际上是可以再生的。

And I remember when I was in college, there was a professor there who determined that, for instance, the neurons in the hippocampus could actually be regenerated.

这在当时是轰动性的新闻，因为长期以来人们一直认为大脑的许多区域中的神经元是无法退化或再生的。

And this was very, very big news because people had assumed for a very long time in a number of parts of the brain that neurons could not be degenerated or regenerated.

基本上，你年纪越大，神经功能就越丧失，而且无法恢复。

Basically, you got older, you just lost neuronal function and it could not be restored.

现在我们知道这并不正确。

Now we know that's not true.

对吧？

Right?

所以你正经历着类似的情况，你在向人们证明，那些被认为不可能的事情其实是可能的。

And so you're having this similar experience where you're proving to people that things are possible that were thought impossible.

你认为在你这个研究领域，未来五年内我们还会证明哪些其他‘不可能’的事情是可能的？

What what do you think what other impossibles do you think we will prove are possible in the next, say, five years in your kind of area of experimentation?

这是个非常棒的想法，也是一个很好的问题。

Very, very nice thought and a very good question.

我认为像抑郁症这样的疾病，以及大脑本身。

I think depression, for example, and the brains itself.

我们能够介入大脑，进行更多干预，影响更多与下丘脑、松果体、垂体、海马体和杏仁核——情绪的源头——相关的功能。

We are able to tap into the brains and do so much more, influence so much more, which is related to the hypothalamus, the pineal gland, the pituitary gland, the hippocampus and the amygdala, the seed of emotion.

所有这些都位于脑干周围，也就是爬行动物脑、原始脑。

All these are part and around the brainstem, which is the reptilian brain, the primitive brain.

由于我们舒适的生活方式和行为，这部分得不到足够的刺激。

And because of our comfort way of living and behavior, this part doesn't get enough stimulation.

对。

Right.

我们缺乏训练。

We're untrained.

是的。

Yes.

它既得不到刺激，也得不到氧气。

It doesn't get the stimulation nor oxygen.

因此，体内出现了一定程度的pH值失衡。

So there is a certain kind of deregulating pH level going on.

这仅仅是缺氧造成的。

It's just to lack of oxygen.

没有行动，没有刺激。

There is no action, no stimulation.

因此，随着时间推移，它开始出现故障。

So in time, it begins to malfunction.

而这正是如此。

And that's yeah.

这实际上确实是一种逻辑。

That that's actually, yeah, a sort of a logic.

因此，我们在西方世界遭受大量抑郁，因为我们过度投入新皮层——表层大脑、新大脑，必须应对各种任务、截止日期和忧虑，却无法停止。

So we suffer from a whole lot, for example, of depression in the Western world because we go too much into the neocortex, the superficial brain, the new brain, and we have to do all kinds of things and deadlines and worries, and we cannot stop it.

它消耗了所有的能量。

And it consumes all the energy.

我所做和所学的是重新回归脑干。

What I do and learn is to go into the brain stem again.

我们爬行动物脑的简单性，原始大脑，脑干，它与那边那些美丽的腺体相关，比如松果体、垂体，以及控制我们的下丘脑。

The simplicity of our reptilian brain, the primitive brain, the brain stem, which is related to all these beautiful glands over there, which is the pineal gland, pituitary gland, and the controller of us, which is the hypothalamus.

对。

Right.

而情绪本身的源头，就是杏仁核。

And the seed of emotion itself, which is the amygdala.

所有这些都在那里。

It's all there.

因此，我找到了一种方法，通过我们躺在床上的例子来说明，人们产生的肾上腺素可能比第一次去蹦极时感到恐惧的人还要多。

And so I found a way to get into that and show just by this example of ours to lying in bed, people are able to produce more adrenaline than somebody who is in fear going into a bungee jump for the first time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你明白我的意思吗？

You see what I mean?

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这意味着恐惧、情绪、不可控的情绪和恐惧。

That that means fear, emotion, uncontrollable emotions and fear.

我们能够控制它们。

We are able to control them.

这是因为我们通过调控脑干，产生所需的肾上腺素、去甲肾上腺素或其他所有激素。

And that's because we tap controlled into the brainstem and produce any adrenaline or epinephrine or all these all these gland no.

不是腺体。

Not glands.

我们需要的激素。

Hormones we need.

而最终控制着我们体内所有其他腺体的是松果体。

And it's the pineal gland in the in the finally, which is the control of all the other glands in our body.

因此，我们现在能够触及它。

So we are able now to tap into that.

在未来五年里，我想消除抑郁症。

So the coming five years, I want to eradicate depression.

我想根除那个，是的。

I want to eradicate the the yeah.

实际上，是这种疾病。

Actually, the disease.

我知道这是很大的说法，但我们已经深入其中了。

I know that are big words, but we are into that.

我不只是深入其中。

I'm not only into that.

还有教授、生物化学家

It's also professors, biochemists

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们支持我的观点。

Who stand my point.

他们认为这如此简单、易得且有效，但还需要被融入我们的思维体系和利益结构中。

And they see it's so simple, so accessible, and so effective, but it needs to be translated into our infrastructure of thinking as well as of interests.

对。

Right.

它需要与教育体系合作。

It needs to cooperate with schooling.

现在我们已经进入大学了。

Now we got on the university.

这很好。

That's nice.

这是自上而下的，因为如果美国的大学开始采纳，那么世界上所有大学很快都会跟进。

It's coming top down because, oh, if The US universities are taking it on, then soon all the universities in the world will follow.

所以我们发现这样就可以了。

So we find okay.

我暂时说到这里。

I rest my point for now.

不，不。

And no no.

是的

Yeah.

比如抑郁症。

So with, for instance, depression.

我相信有很多听众曾经历过抑郁症，甚至长期抑郁。

So there I'm sure there are a lot of people listening who have bounced with depression or even extended depression.

他们无法控制自己的情绪。

That's no control over their mood.

对。

Right.

他们无法控制脑干。

That's no control over the brainstem.

那我们回到脑干上来。

So let's We bring it back to the brainstem.

对。

Right.

举个例子来说，我发现接触低温对我至少是非常有帮助的。

So for instance, you know, I find that it's very helpful for me at least to use cold exposure.

不管是冲冷水澡还是泡冰浴，它都能极大地提振情绪，或者说调节情绪——对的，没错。

And whether that's cold showers or ice bath, it has a tremendous mood elevating effect or maybe mood Exactly.

也就是我们常说的情绪平衡作用，怎么解释都行。

Balancing effect depending on how we want to explain it.

但如果是一个正处于抑郁状态的人，你会推荐他们先尝试哪些简单的方法呢？

But for someone who is feeling depressed, what are some simple things that you would recommend that they try potentially?

首先，开始有意识地呼吸，进行更深层的呼吸，并且要主动地坚持这么做。

First, get into conscious breathing, deeper breathing, and be consciously doing that.

我在大学的时候就发现，仅仅是怀着参与实验的念头去调动自己的意识，就能在细胞层面产生变化。

It showed in the university that I was able just, you know, about consciousness, just by thinking that I was going into an experiment, I raised cell on cell level.

单单靠意念，细胞内的代谢活动就提升到了原来的300%。

The the metabolic activity in the cell were 300% just by thinking.

这就是我们意念的力量。

That's our mind.

所以，我们的心智应该与抑郁症患者在一起。

So our mind should be with people who are depressed.

他们只是迷失了。

They just got lost.

他们失去了控制。

They have no control.

因此，他们必须通过有意识地进行呼吸来重新获得控制。

So they have to regain control by consciously going into breathing.

呼吸，特别是深呼吸，能改善身体的pH值，但不仅仅是身体，还包括心智。

Breathing brings about, deeper breathing brings about a better pH level in the body, but not only in the body, in the mind.

合适的pH值能让神经递质——也就是你大脑中的电信号——最终更好地发挥作用。

And the right pH level will make the neurotransmitters that's your mind, the electrical signals finally, work better.

然后，你就能学会有意识地引导这些神经递质或思维，借助正确的pH值来掌控自己的心智。

And then you are able to learn to direct these neurotransmitters or thoughts, the mind itself, consciously with the right pH degree.

所以我们简化它，一直强调有意识地呼吸。

So we make it simple and we say conscious breathing all the time.

因为你走神了，这需要消耗能量，占用你的注意力，你必须重新把注意力掌控回来。

Cause you lost track and it takes energy, it takes your mind, and it you gotta bring back your mind under your control.

所以，我认为这与更广泛的强迫行为话题有关。

And so, I mean, this, I think, is related to a broader topic of compulsive behavior.

对吧？

Right?

或者那些确实如此的人。

Or people who Yes.

拥有那些并不利于自己的自动行为。

Have automatic behaviors that are not serving them.

其中之一常常是进食或暴饮暴食。

And one of those is oftentimes eating or overeating.

在我们开始录音之前，我问你吃了什么早餐，你说什么都没吃，因为你每天只吃一顿。

And before we started recording, you know, I asked you what you had for breakfast, and you said nothing because you eat once per day.

所以你能描述一下你每天的饮食习惯吗？

So I I could you describe what your daily eating ritual is?

我每天下午六点之后才吃东西。

I eat after 06:00 in the afternoon.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这个习惯已经持续三十五年了。

And that's already for thirty five years.

而且我精力非常充沛。

And there is I got a lot of energy.

你知道为什么吗？

And you know why?

你有很多过敏吗？

You have a lot of allergies?

没有。

No.

精力。

Anergy.

哦，对不起。

Oh, I'm sorry.

抱歉。

Sorry.

明白了。

Got it.

也许也和过敏有关。

Maybe allergies as well.

女性。

Women.

你懂的？

You know?

好的。

Okay.

只是开个玩笑。

Just to make fun.

你知道的。

You know?

我觉得

I think

我觉得下次我们再这样聊天时，得喝点葡萄酒。

I think you and I have to have wine next time we do this.

蒂斯非常健康。

Thijs is very healthy.

非常好。

Very good.

关键是，通过更好的呼吸、有意识的呼吸，你能促使细胞内发生一种叫做有氧呼吸的化学过程。

The thing is by better breathing, conscious breathing, you make this chemical process in the in the cell happen, which is called aerobic dissimilation.

而且，你知道，在细胞中产生能量、线粒体能量时，你需要食物。

And as, you know, in the cell production, to make energy, mitochondrial energy, you need food.

但如果你能通过更好的呼吸、更深的呼吸来影响它，就能在细胞线粒体中产生简单的代谢活动，从而生成能量，而这正是食物原本的目的。

But if you are able to influence by better breathing, a deeper breathing, then you produce simple metabolic activity in the mitochondria by better breathing and that creates energy, which was the purpose of food.

所以食物很不错。

So food is nice.

喂？

Hello?

我在这儿。

I'm here.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

食物很不错。

Food is nice.

食物很棒。

Food is great.

你应该带着满满的爱去做，享受制作的过程，因为最终你获得的能量也来自这里。

You should do it with a lot of love and then having a nice time making it and because that's the energy you get finally, also.

但像我这样，这算是一种快速方式，但我必须让你的感官真正发挥作用，这样细胞活动才会更加高效。

But like me, like, it's a sort of a fast, but I have to feel you're the sensors really gets are going to be much more effective, and the cell activity is going to be much more effective.

而且它利用了所有的食物。

And it is using all the food.

而且你可以在早上6点之后吃东西。

And you can eat after 06:00.

我可以吃我想吃的东西。

I can eat what I want.

前几天，我又变瘦了。

The other day, I'm slim again.

这使得身体在运作，你知道的。

And that that's making, you know, making the body work.

但因为我们一整天都在吃，身体并没有停止运转。

But as we eat all the day long, the body is not shutting down.

它不再有效了。

It's not effective anymore.

它无法深入发挥作用。

It doesn't go deep.

不会触发生存机制。

Doesn't go into survival motives.

这又不自然了。

It's not natural again.

所以身体开始储存所有脂肪，因为它不知道该怎么办了，因为更深层的机制已经失效。

So it's beginning to store up all the fats because it doesn't know what to do anymore, because the deeper mechanisms are not working anymore.

是的。

So yeah.

你要怎么做到这一点。

What you to bring that.

那你晚上6点后通常吃些什么？典型的餐食有哪些？

And what do you usually what what are some typical meals that you have after 6PM?

我喜欢吃意大利面。

That's I like pasta.

对。

Yeah.

我也喜欢喝几瓶啤酒。

And I like a couple of beers too.

是的。

And yeah.

当然。

Sure.

听起来不错。

Sounds sounds good.

进食的仪式感非常有趣。

I the eating ritual is very interesting.

我在这档播客中采访过不少人，包括斯坦利·麦克克里斯托尔将军。

I've I've interviewed a number of people on this podcast including general Stanley McChrystal.

他是一名四星将军，以在一天早些时候大量运动并每天只吃一餐而闻名。

He's a four star general and he was he's also famous for getting a lot of exercise early in the day and eating one meal per day.

他也因这一点而广为人知。

He's also he's also very well known for that.

你描述了你做的呼吸练习，或者其中一些呼吸练习。

You described the breathing exercise or some of the breathing exercises that you do.

你做的呼吸方式是否与全息呼吸法有相似之处？如果你熟悉的话。

Does the type of breathing that you do have anything is it similar in any ways to holotropic breath work, if you're familiar with that?

我听某人说，也许你可以纠正我，如果我错了，有些科学家研究过你在某些呼吸活动中是否产生了或释放了更多的DMT。

And I heard from someone, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, that some scientists had looked at whether you were producing or releasing more DMT during some of your breathing activities.

这准确吗？

Is that accurate?

还是我从某人那里听到了错误的信息？

Or did I get some misinformation from someone?

我只是想

I'll just be

不，完全不是。

very No.

不。

No.

那是一位教授。

That's a professor.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

科罗拉多？

Colorado?

我不记得他叫什么名字了。

I don't know where what is his name again?

我不知道。

I don't know.

他是这个领域的权威。

He's a authority in the field.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

但我曾经和他交谈过，他一直在谈论这些，你知道的，死藤水以及各种药物，还有这些实验。

But I had a dialogue with him, and he is talking about, all these, you know, ayahuasca and all these drugs and all this and experimenting.

我对他说，我能够以某种方式激活松果体，促使DMT释放。

And I said, I told him, I'm able to produce, to, trigger the pineal gland in a way that DMT is released.

是的，这些呼吸练习确实能让人非常非常快乐。

And yes, it can make people very, very happy doing all these breathing exercises.

没错。

That's true.

但DMT的实际作用是在做梦和快速眼动睡眠期间处理潜意识。

But the purpose of DMT actually is to work out the subconscious while dreaming and the rapid eye movement sleep.

另一个情况是当你死亡时，DMT也会被释放，让你在前往彼岸时感觉更愉快，过得更美好，类似这样的作用。

And the other one is when you die, then DMT is released as well as to make it more, you know, happy going after, Having a have a have a nice time going to the other side, something like that.

所以DMT是有其自然用途的。

So there is a natural purpose for DMT.

但我们确实非常有能力触发那种产生DMT的过程。

But we are we are very I'm very able to trigger that that creates DMT.

我告诉他，这不仅仅关乎DMT，虽然DMT确实很棒。

And I told him and I I I told him also, it's not only about the DMT, which is very nice.

这是一种很棒的药物，你知道的，所有那些东西。

It's a nice drug, you know, all that.

但更重要的是，如果我们能激活松果体——它直接与下丘脑和垂体腺相关——并通过改变我们安逸的生活方式来消除它的钙化，那么这个腺体就能调控所有其他腺体。

But the better part of it is if we are able to trigger the pineal gland, which is related directly to the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland, If we are able to trigger that one and to de calcify because of our comfort way of living, this pineal gland, then this gland is able direct all the other glands.

它是唯一一个能调控其他所有腺体的腺体，而我们可以通过新皮层与它建立神经连接，这正是我们所做的。

It's the only gland that is directing all the other glands and we can bring, we can neurally connect with it, with our neocortex is what we do.

它能表明，我们能够预防疾病或细菌入侵，因为我们能更直接地激活它。

And it shows them that we are able to prevent from disease or bacteria coming in because we are able to activate it much more directly.

这才是看待疾病成因时需要关注的主要目的。

That's the main purpose to, you know, for looking different at what creates disease.

这是因为我们的松果体或脑干不再活跃了，原因是由于我们安逸的生活方式和行为而被忽视了。

It's because of our pineal gland or the brain stem is not really active anymore because it's neglected because of our comfort, style of living and behavior.

我们想走一条捷径，向它展示这是简单、易行且有效的。

And we want to make a shortcut and to show it that it is simple, accessible, and effective.

我认为有必要强调一下舒适性，因为几年前我和迪恩·卡纳泽斯有过一次对话。

Well, I think that the, you know, the the comfort is important to underscore because I was having a conversation with Dean Karnassus several years ago.

他是一位著名的超马运动员。

He's a famous ultra marathoner.

你们俩可能会有很多共同话题。

You guys would probably have a lot to talk about.

他跑了50场马拉松，连续50天在50个州完成。

And he he he ran, you know, 50 marathons in fifty days in 50 states.

他就是那种人。

He's one of those guys.

他说他住在加利福尼亚北部，靠近我住的旧金山。

And he said that he lives in Northern California near San Francisco where I live.

他有一句话，我可能不是原话复述，但他说，现在人们把快乐和舒适混淆了。

And he's and one of his lines, and I might I might be paraphrasing this, but he said, you know, people now they confuse being happy with being comfortable.

他们认为舒适就是快乐，但这两者其实并不相同。

And they think being comfortable is is being happy, but that's those are not the same thing.

我想稍微谈一谈不适感。

And I'd like to talk about discomfort for a second.

你曾经在死亡谷跑过马拉松，而且没带水，是吗？

So you ran a marathon in was it Death Valley with no water?

是的。

Yes.

就是这样一件事。

A thing like that.

对。

Yeah.

纳米比亚。

Namibia.

纳米比亚。

Namibia.

没错。

That's right.

即便如此，你还是在纳米布沙漠。

Even so you Namib Desert.

更危险，因为你那里有蛇之类的动物。

Even more dangerous because you have snakes and whatnot.

所以，当然，当你浸泡在冰水中时，已经证明你可以长时间保持核心体温。

So is it possible to not so, of course, when you are submerged in ice, it's been demonstrated that you can maintain your core body temperature for a very long period of time.

在炎热的气候中，你是否有可能降低体温，还是只是通过训练来适应更高的温度？

Is it possible for you to drop your body temperature in a hot climate, or have you just is it training yourself to withstand the higher temperatures?

是的，正是如此。

Yes, exactly.

其实是两者都有。

Both, actually.

你的耐受力在提升，这意味着你能承受更多，因为你能够以某种方式影响荷尔蒙系统，从而中和疼痛信号。

Your tolerance is rising, and that means you are able to endure a whole lot more because you are able to influence the hormonal system in a way that neutralizes pain signals.

这是一个。

That's one.

另一个是因为我在寒冷中的训练，我不只是在寒冷中训练，我还训练自己适应温度变化带来的冲击。

The other one is because of my training in the cold, I not only trained in the cold, I trained to endure impact of temperature.

这些是我训练过的我们的感受器。

And those are receptors of ours which I have trained.

而这些是由下丘脑控制的，下丘脑是我们身体的温度调节中枢。

And then because of that, which is controlled by the hypothalamus, is the thermal regulator of our body.

因为我曾在寒冷中训练，所以我训练了身体的温度调节能力。

And because I trained in the cold, I trained the thermal regulation of the body.

然后，没有经过训练，没有跑步训练，也没有在纳米布沙漠的酷热中，不喝水完成一场全程马拉松，而且之前从未去过那里。

Then without training, without training a meter of running, and then not drinking a full marathon in the Namib Desert, in the heat, without prior training or ever been there before.

我能够做到这一点，是因为这种体温调节机制——下丘脑，我已在寒冷中训练过，那就是对温度冲击的适应。

I was very able to do that because this thermoregulative mechanism, the hypothalamus, I had trained in in the cold, which is the temperature impact.

所以我学会了应对温度变化。

So I learned to deal with the temperature.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

不仅是温度，有冷有热，还有缺氧。

And not only the temperature, which is cold and heat, but also deprivation of oxygen.

这意味着短时间内攀登珠穆朗玛峰。

That means going up Mount Everest in short.

这意味着外面非常寒冷。

That means there's a a very cold out there.

那里没有氧气，而细胞燃烧需要氧气来产生热能，但那里却没有氧气。

There is no oxygen, and you need oxygen to for combustion in the in the cell to create heat energy, and there is no oxygen.

因此，我在寒冷中学会了如何应对对神经系统和新陈代谢的影响。

So I learned in the cold how to deal with impact on the nervous system, on our metabolism.

这意味着寒冷、缺氧、高温，还有日常压力。

That means cold, deprivation of oxygen, heat, but also stress, daily stress.

所以，正如你们所说的，我们舒适的秘诀，人们常常感到困惑，就像他们在复述这位了不起的人的话，嗯。

So the secret of our comfort, as you say, and the people say they are confusing, like they're paraphrasing this this this great guy Mhmm.

来自北加利福尼亚的那个人说的是实话。

Of Northern California who is telling the truth.

我们感到困惑。

We are confused.

我们再也不知道什么是真正的舒适了。

We don't know anymore what real comfort is.

真正的舒适是掌控生活中所有影响的能力。

Real comfort is the power to regulate all the impact existence in in life.

这意味着疾病——对身体的影响，以及高温、寒冷、缺氧，还有各种压力。

That means disease, which is impact on our body, heat, cold, deprivation of oxygen, stress in general, any stress.

而我们能够更好地控制这些因素。

And we are able to control that a whole lot more.

而这才带来了真正的舒适。

And that brings about the real comfort.

因为如果你与体内这些系统建立连接，就会感觉非常好。

Because if you connect yourself with all these all these systems within, then you feel really good.

对。

Right.

真正的良好状态是真正的连接。

Real good is real connection.

而那种感觉正是为什么所有这些户外爱好者、怪人等等，像我这样的人，都在做这件事，因为我们就是觉得这样很好。

And that that that's something be are gonna be that's why all these outdoor freaks and idiots and etcetera, like myself, are doing this because we just feel good about it.

嗯，这似乎也意味着，舒适感在某种程度上是学会在不适中保持自信。

Well, it seems like it's also feeling comfort is, in a way, becoming confident in discomfort.

对吧？

Right?

所以你对自己有能力应对和适应任何即将来临的情况充满信心。

So you you have a confidence that you can handle and adapt to whatever is going to come your way.

就像我曾经遇到的一些精英军人，他们实际上非常放松。

Much like some of the, I suppose, you know, elite military that I've met who are who are very actually very relaxed.

我的意思是，我遇到的大多数高级人士，因为他们系统性地让自己暴露在不适之中。

I mean, the most most of the high level guys I've met because they've systematically exposed themselves to discomfort.

所以他们并不害怕不适，这样说你能理解吧。

So they don't fear discomfort, if that makes sense.

没错。

Exactly.

他们能完全掌控自己的压力激素释放。

They control their stress hormone release completely.

对。

Right.

这正是我想说的。

That's what I'm talking about.

你现在会说几种语言？

Now you you speak how how many languages do you speak?

十种。

10.

十种。

10.

这么多语言啊。

That is a lot of languages.

你是怎么学会这么多语言的？

How did you learn that many languages?

只要保持开放的心态，热爱学习，就这么简单。

Just be open and love to learn, and that's it.

我没有真正的老师，你知道的，都是街上的普通人，有时我甚至得在阿姆斯特丹找一位日语老师，或者一位印度教的宗师。

I had no real teachers, you know, people in the street, and sometimes I had to look for a teacher like a Japanese teacher here in Amsterdam and a Hindu teacher, a pundit.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，是的，我只是出于兴趣。

And so, yeah, I was just interested.

如果你对生活感兴趣，你就会有所了解。

If you are interested in life, you get to know.

而且你会一直学习，因为你热爱它。

And you never stop learning because you love it.

在你尝试过的所有语言中，哪一种对你来说最难？

Is there is what language of all the languages you've tried, what was the hardest for you?

最难的。

The hardest.

也许是波兰语。

Maybe Polish.

波兰语。

Polish.

波兰语。

Polish.

因为它的语法结构完全不一样。

Because it's a complete different set of grammatical structures.

我明白了。

I see.

波兰语，我想我

Polish and I guess I have I

我打赌你

bet you

知道这个。

know that one.

是的，当然。

Yes, of course.

喝啤酒，算了吧。

Drinking beer, come on.

我知道。

I know.

我们 definitely 也得来一轮，喝点葡萄酒和啤酒。

We definitely have to have a round too with some wine and beer.

但下一个我想问的问题可能很简单，但为什么人们会胖？

But the the next question I'd love to ask is perhaps a simple one, but why are people fat?

人们如何才能增加棕色脂肪并有效利用它？

And how can people develop more brown fat and use it effectively?

是的。

Yes.

人们之所以发胖，是因为这是一种保护机制，实际上是身体对过多刺激和错误化学反应的回应。

People are being fed because it's a protective mechanism of our It's actually an answer to too much impact, too much wrong chemistry going on.

所以身体想要形成一层绝缘层。

So it wants to make an insulation.

这是身体自然的反应。

That's natural thing to do of the body.

我们现在正遭受这种问题的困扰。

Now, we are suffering from that now.

这被称为肥胖，你知道的，超重，而我们对此毫无控制力。

It's called obesity and, you know, being overweight and we have no control.

让我们重新找回控制。

Just bring them back to the control.

我们该怎么做？

How do we do that?

通过这种脂肪组织，棕色脂肪。

By this adipose, brown fat adipose.

因为这些人大多缺乏棕色脂肪，因为他们长时间没有受到刺激。

Because they have mostly of those people have also an absence of brown fat because they have no stimulation anymore for longer time.

于是这种绝缘反射开始不断积累。

And then this insulation reflex is beginning to build up and build up.

但事实上，这在告诉你：嘿，伙计。

But actually, this is telling, hey, guy.

我正在尽力为你做最好的事，但你却一点回报都没有。

I'm trying to do my best for you, but you are not doing anything in return.

只要你不去触发或刺激脂肪组织，尤其是棕色脂肪，它就会衰弱。

And as long as you're not triggering or stimulating the adipose, the brown fat, then it it it succumbs.

它会消失。

It goes away.

然后它就无法再将白色脂肪转化为能量了。

And and and then it is not able to to divert white fat into energy anymore.

对。

Right.

所以它消失了。

So it's gone.

对于肥胖人群来说，他们已经没有棕色脂肪了。

With people with obesity, they have no brown fat anymore.

所以这其中是有逻辑解释的，我知道这一点。

So there is a logic explanation to it, and I know it.

所以他们必须把它重新激活。

So they have to bring it back.

主要是通过寒冷暴露吗？

And is that cold exposure primarily?

那应该是第一步尝试的

That would be the first step to try to

寒冷。

Cold.

寒冷暴露，自然地接触外界环境。

Cold exposure, natural exposure to the elements.

这是第一种方法。

That's one.

以一种适应性的方式，循序渐进地，我们才能逐渐适应它。

In an adaptive way, gradual way, I mean, then we are able to adapt towards it.

但由于这些机制在这些人身上并不太有效，所以他们必须非常敏感且循序渐进地进行。

But as these mechanisms are not working really well within these people, so they have to be very, you know, sensitive and gradual going into it.

还有呼吸。

And breathing.

呼吸是一种化学过程。

Breathing is chemistry.

它正在直接影响此刻体内的化学环境。

It's influencing the chemistry right here, right now.

更好的呼吸，更深的呼吸能改善身体的pH值，从而最终促进新陈代谢加快。

Better breathing, deeper breathing brings about a better pH degree in the body, which then finally results in a faster metabolism.

如果人们想要自己练习这种呼吸方法，有没有什么特别的咒语或他们应该在练习时对自己说的词？

And if people are practicing this or want to practice this breathing on their own, is there any particular, mantra or anything they should focus on or say to themselves as they're doing this?

开始时任何形式的冥想都可以吗？比如使用Headspace或Calm这样的应用，还是你有特别的推荐？

Is any type of meditation okay to start with, like using an app like Headspace or Calm, or do you have a particular recommendation?

如果有人表示，每天愿意花十分钟来做这件事，你会对他们说什么？

If someone said, have ten minutes a day I'm willing to spend doing this, what would you say to them?

是的。

Yeah.

放上你最喜欢的音乐。

Just have your favorite music going on.

全身心投入进去，专注于呼吸。

Go really into it and go really into the breathing.

因为这关乎化学变化。

Because it's about chemical changes.

当你听到合适的音乐时，你会更容易放松，身体就能吸入更多氧气，最终使体内的pH值恢复到自然状态。

And whenever you hear the right music, you are able to relax more and more oxygen than is able to get into the body, which is finally changing pH levels in the body to its natural state.

这就是我们所拥有的。

That's what we have.

因为我们生活在一个如此紧凑的社会中，压力太大，我们无法控制压力，从而偏离了自然状态。

Because we live in such a, you know, compressed society, too much stress going on, we do not have control over the stress, we get out of our natural state.

所以在十分钟内，我说实际上四分钟就够了，只需做这个呼吸练习，同时做俯卧撑。

So within ten minutes, we are, I say within four minutes, just do this breathing exercise, which I teach people and do push ups.

在肺部没有空气的情况下做俯卧撑。

Push ups without air in the lungs.

你应该这么做。

You should do that.

所以你是呼气后才做这个动作吗？

So you do that after the after the exhale?

是的。

Yes.

呼气之后。

After the air.

首先，你做大约30次。

First, you do like 30.

就像我解释的那样，深入内在，放松。

Like I explained, deeply within, let go.

深入内在。

Deeply within.

留意身体的反应：感觉身体放松、头晕、轻微抽搐或刺痛，这些都没关系，做30到40次深呼吸，然后放松40次。

Look at the indications, feeling loose in the body, lightheaded, contractions a little bit tingling, that's all okay, like 30 or 40 deep breaths and then letting go 40 times.

接着你会感受到身体充满氧气，二氧化碳被排出，pH值上升，然后你应该彻底吸气，再放松。

Then you will arrive at that being charged with oxygen and CO2, carbon dioxide got away, pH level has gotten up, then you should breathe in fully, letting go.

呼气结束后，你暂停一下，然后去做俯卧撑。

After exhalation you stop and you go do push ups.

你会发现，在没有空气的情况下，你能做更多的俯卧撑，因为你的身体化学状态已经被改变了。

And you will see you are able to do more push ups without air in the lungs because you're influenced into the chemistry.

这可能最好先在柔软的表面上做。

That's and probably a good idea to do on a soft surface first.

是的。

Yes.

以防你摔得太重，亲了地板一下。

Just in case you decide to kiss the floor a little too hard.

不。

No.

这同样是莱尔德和他的团队一直在研究的内容。

This is something that that Laird and his guys have been working on as well.

我的意思是，很多这些人平时都在做俯卧撑或者骑固定自行车。

I mean, lot of these guys are working in doing push ups or stationary bike.

非常有趣。

Very interesting.

他们有时会和自由潜水员一起训练。

They have free divers that they sometimes work out with.

非常迷人。

It's very fascinating.

很好。

Great.

好吧，我会试试这个。

Well, I'm I'm going to try that.

我想稍微换个话题，问你几个快速的问题。

I would love to switch gears just a little bit and ask you a couple of rapid questions.

你当然可以慢慢想。

You can certainly take your time.

这并不意味着你必须快速回答。

It doesn't mean you have to answer them quickly.

但第一个问题是，当你想到‘成功’这个词时，你脑海中第一个浮现的是谁？

But the the first is when you think of the word successful, who is the first person who comes to mind for you?

任何人的内心。

The heart in any person.

内心？

The heart?

任何人的内心。

The heart in any person.

那就是成功。

That that that that's success.

更远一点，也许是指曼德拉。

The further, maybe Mandela.

纳尔逊·曼德拉。

Nelson Mandela.

是的。

Yes.

关于内心，如果有人觉得自己不成功，你会给他们什么建议？

And and with the heart, if someone feels like if someone doesn't feel successful, what would you what would your advice be to them?

或者你会对他们说什么？

Or what would you what would you say to them?

好的。

Yeah.

就按照这个方法去做。

Just do the method.

我的意思是，这个方法已经科学地证明能够触及我们生理最深层的部分。

I mean, this method is showing scientifically to be able to tap into the deepest of our physiology.

如果有人感到沮丧，那是因为他无法触及自己生理的最深层。

If somebody feels he's frustrated, it's because he is not able to tap in his or hers physiology at the deepest.

他失去了控制。

He has no control.

这让人感到沮丧。

That makes people frustrated.

我们把这种状态投射到社会等各个方面，但你有你的载体。

And we we we mirror that with society and all that, but you got your vehicle.

如果你能驾驭你的载体——你的身体、你的思想——朝着你内心所感受的方向前进，嗯。

If you are able to steer your vehicle, your body, your mind, toward whatever you feel Mhmm.

那么你就会成功。

Then you will be successful.

所以任何yes。

So any yes.

哦，抱歉打断你。

Oh, I'm sorry to interrupt.

我只是想问一下。

I was just gonna ask.

好的。

Yep.

为什么是纳尔逊·曼德拉？

Why Nelson Mandela?

是的。

Yeah.

他就是个好人。

He's just a good guy.

他总是面带微笑。

He was always smiling.

他深爱着女性。

He loved the women.

他坚持了整整二十五年，始终相信这个案件。

And he he he stayed, like, twenty five years believing in this case.

对。

Right.

这让我觉得他非常坚强。

And that makes him, for me, really strong.

我喜爱那些仅仅因为内心感受而保持信念的人。

And I love people who have faith simply because that's what they feel.

是的，我被忽视、被嘲笑这么多年，但我一直保有我的信念。

And, yes, I I've been so so many years neglected and mocked mocked and all that, but I always had my faith.

而现在，这成了科学。

And now it is science.

就在大约二十年前，他们还说我是疯子。

For the same, like, twenty years ago, they told me you're crazy.

你是个傻子。

You're an idiot.

你是个疯子，诸如此类。

You're a lunatic and all that.

是吗？

Yes?

就连在我的家人中，我也是那个异类。

And even my in my family, I was the black sheep.

而现在，我是最纯洁的羊。

And right now, I'm the whitest sheep ever.

所以世界上充满了虚伪，因为人们并不了解。

So it's a lot of hypocrisy going on in the world because people do not know.

但我拥有我的信仰。

But I got my faith.

我拥有我的信念。

I got my belief.

我希望一直推进到这样一个阶段：我们科学地证明每个人都能充分调动自己的内分泌系统，以至于抑郁、不快乐和沮丧将不再成为人类的一部分。

And I want to go up till the point that we scientifically showed everybody is able to tap in its endocrine system so much that depression and being unhappy and being frustrated is no longer part of humanity.

这是一种选择。

It's a choice.

不。

No.

这是一个话题，我觉得我们可以聊上很久。

This is a this is a topic I'd I I think we could talk about for a long time.

你最喜欢哪本书？或者你最常送给别人作为礼物的是哪本书？

What is your favorite book or the book that you've given to other people the most as a gift?

哇哦。

Woah.

我从来没送过这么多书，除了我目前正在写的那些。

Never gave so many books except for the books I'm writing right now.

你会把书作为礼物送人吗？

Do you give to people as gifts?

你喜欢送什么礼物给别人？

What do you like to give people as gifts?

哦，石头。

Oh, stones.

石头，还有很多自然的东西。

Stones, a lot of and natural things.

我送别人自然物品。

I give people natural things.

我收集一大堆东西，但两个月后我就对这些东西厌倦了。

I collect a whole bunch of things, and then two months later, I'm I'm fed up with the thing.

然后我就想，这个东西该送给你了。

And then I think, this one wants to go with you.

那些都是漂亮的石头。

And those are beautiful stones.

我第一次看到它们时，心想，哇。

When I saw them the first time, I thought, wow.

很棒的石头。

Great stone.

很漂亮。

Beautiful.

哦，这个文物。

Oh, this artifact.

哦，什么？

Oh, what?

太好了。

Great.

哇。

Wow.

不错。

Nice.

然后两个月后，它就没了。

Then two months later, it's gone.

你知道吗？

You know?

然后我就把它送人了。

Then I just gave it away.

对于书籍来说，也是同样的情况。

And so with books, the same thing.

我想到了《悉达多》和《海鸥乔纳森》。

As Siddhartha Siddhartha and Jonathan Livingston Seagull comes to my mind.

这没关系。

That's okay.

还有一些经典，我读过《薄伽梵歌》和《圣经》，当然。

And some scriptures, I I read about the Bhagavad Gita and the bible, of course.

但这些书，我读了数百本。

But all these books, I was reading hundreds of books.

但在某个时刻，我无法将它们与自己内心最深处的追寻者联系起来。

And certain at point, I could not make the connection with my the deepest within myself, which was the seeker.

我当时在进行灵魂的探索，最终在冰水这本敞开的书中找到了答案。

I was soul searching, and I found it finally in the open book of the ice water.

因为冰水无情却公正。

Because ice water is merciless but righteous.

它让你直接面对内心，没有任何闲言碎语。

It brings you just within, and there is no is no chitchatting around that.

没有任何哲学。

There is no philosophy.

你只能做对，或者做错。

You just do it right or you do it wrong.

当然，你经历了一些非常艰难的时刻，可能比我和许多其他人交谈过的都要多。

Now you you've had, of course, some some very challenging times, perhaps more so than many people I've spoken with.

你的妻子不幸早逝，这种情况你该如何度过那些黑暗时期？

You had a very tragic premature death with your wife in What the case of your do you do to overcome those dark periods?

是的。

Yes.

非常好。

Very very good.

非常有趣。

Very interesting.

非常真实且深刻。

Very real and deep.

继续说。

Go on.

失去你所爱的人。

Losing the person you love.

我和她育有四个孩子。

I have four children with her.

他们现在和我一起工作。

They work with me right now.

他们中最年长的已经33岁了。

They are, like, 33 years old, the oldest one.

然后还有两个女儿和另一个儿子，他们现在都和我一起工作。

And then two daughters and another son, and they all work with me right now.

哦，实际上，有一个现在在美国华盛顿特区的荷兰大使馆工作。

Oh, actually, one is working right now at the Dutch embassy in Washington DC in America.

但其余的人都一直和我一起工作。

But the rest is working with me all the time.

所以失去你深爱的人，这种痛苦能有多深，简直被撕裂一般。

So losing the love of your life, how deep can you go, and being tear apart.

那就是我当时所经历的一切。

That was what I was experiencing at the time.

但那时我是唯一一个，你知道的，我独自一人，必须独自抚养四个孩子。

But then I was the only person who was re who you know, I was alone, and I had to raise four kids alone.

他们当时分别是七岁、八岁、九岁和十一岁。

And that they were, like, seven years old, eight years, nine years, and 11 years.

我必须独自抚养他们。

And I had to raise them alone.