#881：逆境翻盘的故事，以及如何将失败转化为胜利 —— 蒂姆·麦格劳、特里·克鲁斯、达克斯·谢帕德等

我越来越明白这一点，你知道，这几年对我来说很难像我想的那样投入，因为我一直在努力恢复健康。

I'm learning that more and, you know, these last few years have been tough for me to be involved as much as I wanna be because I've been battling just trying to get my health back.

我很幸运，身边有合适的人帮我度过那些时期。

And I'm fortunate that I have the right people around me that helps me through those periods.

当你专注并且留意自己在做什么，知道路径是什么，你身边每个人都会轻松一些。

When your focus is on and you're paying attention to what you're doing and you know what the path is, it makes it easier for everybody around you.

那除了最近受伤那段时间，其他那些停滞期呢？

What about the periods of stuckness outside of the most recent injury period?

对。

Yeah.

显然，还有那几次手术。

Obviously, the multiple surgeries.

嗯，最大的停滞期，也是我除了这次之外觉得可能完了的时候，是我和职业记录打官司的那段时间。

Well, the biggest period of stuckness and the biggest period where I thought besides this period where I thought it was might be over is when I went through a whole legal battle with career records.

那是我职业生涯中非常黑暗的一段时期。

That was a very dark period of my career.

他们一直通过发行精选集来延长我的合同。

They kept extending my contract by putting greatest hits albums out.

所以每次我交出一张专辑，那本该是我合同里的最后一张，他们就会发一张精选集，而精选集不算在合同里。

So every time I would turn in an album, that would be the final album for my contract, it would drop a greatest hits, which didn't count against the contract.

所以我觉得他们大概发了十张精选集，就为了不让我发自己的专辑。

So I think they ended up putting, like, 10 greatest hits out about to keep me from dropping my album.

所以最后我决定，要么硬着头皮跟他们上法庭，争取解约，要么就继续被他们绑着。

So finally, I I decided I either had to bite the bullet and try to go to court with them and get out or be stuck with them.

不管选哪条路，我都是在拿我的职业生涯冒险。

Either way, I'm taking a chance on my career.

我们打了好几年的官司，之后我基本上得重新开始我的事业。

We battled for a couple of years, and I had to pretty much rebuild my career after that.

那段时间很吓人，因为势头这东西很难维持。

And that was a scary time because momentum's a tough thing.

前几天我听到一句话。

And I heard a quote the other day.

其实是《石油大亨》这部剧。

Was it's actually a landman.

我当时在看。

I was watching it.

然后呢，

And

这部剧很棒。

It's a great show.

确实很棒。

Great show.

里面山姆·艾略特对比利·鲍勃说，

And Sam Elliott was talking to Billy Bob.

他说，你知道牛仔竞技表演上那只骑在边境牧羊犬背上的猴子吗？

He says, you know that monkey at rodeos that rides on the back of the border collie?

那只边境牧羊犬就一直跑啊跑，猴子就死死地抓着不放。

And the border collie just runs around and runs around, and the monkey's just hanging on for dear life.

而且他不能放手，因为放手就会死。

And he can't let go because he'll die.

所以他必须紧紧抓住。

So he's gotta hold on.

他看着比利说，你就是那只猴子。

He looked at Billy and said, you're that monkey.

我心想，看看这些脸，天哪。

And I thought looked at faces, Jesus Christ.

我就是那只猴子。

I'm that monkey.

所以我觉得我就是那只猴子。

So I feel like I'm that monkey.

我们就是那样，但我不确定这是有意的，还是天生就有的，就是即使你知道需要休息，或者即使你知道需要放慢脚步，当事情在推进的时候，你身体里有某种第六感，知道不能让势头停下来，因为重新开始太难了。

We're we're but I don't know that if it's intentional, if it's innately in you, that there's something about even when you know you need to take a break or even when you know that you need to slow down, when things are rolling, there's this sixth sense in your body that knows you can't let the momentum stop because it's so hard to restart.

即使你意识里没这么想，你身体里也有什么东西在驱使你继续前进，因为你不希望势头停下来，因为你害怕。

Even if consciously you're not thinking that, there's something in you that keeps it driving because you don't want the ball to stop rolling because you're scared.

因为你害怕一旦停下来，就再也无法重新开始了。

Because you're scared if the ball stops rolling, you'll never get it rolling again.

确实。

For sure.

所以那段时间我也经历了类似的情况，我当时想，不行。

So that was a time when that was happening to me, and I thought, no.

重新启动确实很难。

Well, it's gonna be hard to restart the momentum.

对。

Yeah.

然后手术后，又遇到了类似的情况。

And then after these surgeries, it was another one of those times.

法律纠纷。

Legal battles.

真是累上加累。

It's just exhaustion upon exhaustion.

真是太疯狂了。

It's just crazy.

有时候你躲不开，但如果能躲开的话。

And sometimes you can't avoid it, but if you can avoid it.

除非万不得已，我真的不想卷入法律纠纷。

I don't wanna be involved in legal battles unless it's just absolute.

但那是在我职业生涯的一个关键时刻，如果我不采取行动，我的职业生涯就要完了。

But that was at a point in my career that if I didn't do something, my career was gonna be over.

如果我采取行动，还有一线希望。

And if I did do something, there was a chance

但风险依然存在。

There was still a risk.

对。

Yeah.

回顾过去，你觉得重建职业生涯、重新找回势头，最重要的做法是什么？

What were some of the most important things in retrospect that you did to rebuild your career, regain that momentum afterwards?

嗯，选对合作伙伴很重要。

Well, choosing the right partner

对。

Mhmm.

首先就是斯科特·博切塔，他是迈克·博切塔的儿子，他签下了我的第一份合约。

For one thing, which is was Scott Borchetta, who happens to be the son of Mike Borchetta, signed me to my first deal.

这世界真小。

What a small world.

是啊。

I know.

后来我跟大机器唱片签约，也是因为他，因为我知道他是个很努力的人。

Who I signed with, Big Machine afterwards because I knew he was a hard worker.

所以这肯定是第一步，但与此同时，我也在录制我人生中最好的专辑，或者说，在我被允许重新录音之后。

So that certainly be a first, but I was also recording the best album I I think I'd ever recorded in my life while all this was going on, or once I was cleared to record.

所以我已经准备好了一张专辑。

And so I had an album ready to go.

等到一切尘埃落定的时候，我已经准备好了一张专辑，斯科特·博切塔也准备好了，专辑反响不错，我的状态也回来了。

By the time everything all the dust was settled, I had an album ready to go and Scott Borchetta was ready and the album worked and the juice was back.

很大程度上是因为我的团队一直在为我奋斗。

A lot of that was my team kept fighting for me the entire time.

当我去找斯科特，去他的唱片公司时，他知道发生了什么，他也非常努力地争取，因为他也不喜欢发生的事。

When I went to Scott, to his label, he he knew what what had happened, and he fought really hard because he didn't like what had happened either.

我想这也会注入一股有用的冲劲和斗志，来真正有意义地重新出发。

I would imagine that also injected a helpful amount of piss and vinegar to demonstrate, to really relaunch in a meaningful way.

那之后我就火力全开了。

It turned me up to 12 after that.

我的意思是，这确实让我进入了高速运转的状态。

I mean, it it kicked me into high gear for sure.

我现在也是这种感觉，经历了这一切，担心能不能回来，担心如果回来了，我的节目会是什么样子。

And that's the way I feel now after all of this and worrying about being able to come back and worrying about if I did come back, what's my show's gonna be like?

我还能怎么表演呢？

How was I gonna be able to perform?

我还能做回我自己吗？

Was I gonna be able to be me again?

现在我感觉就像当初从低谷走出来，和Big Machine合作，重新起步时的那种感觉。

Now I feel like that same way I felt after coming out of the curb and starting with Big Machine and getting the ball rolling again.

我觉得我们正处在把巨石推过山顶，让它再次滚下去的边缘。

I feel like that we're right on the edge of just tipping that boulder over the hill and let it go again.

我很好奇，因为你肯定经常被不同职业阶段的音乐人找上门来，不管以什么方式。

I am so curious because you must get approached all the time, one way or another, from musicians at different stages in their careers.

也许是朋友的的儿子，或者某个人的女儿，也可能是刚入行的新人。

Maybe it's the son of a friend or the daughter of a fill in the blank, or it could be someone who's just coming up.

也许他们想给你做暖场嘉宾。

Maybe they're trying to be an opener for you.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

对于职业生涯更早的人，我想你给他们的建议可能随着时间发生了变化。

Someone who is earlier in their career, I imagine the advice you might give them has changed over time.

但如果他们想不只是昙花一现，就要主动掌控。

But if they want to be more than a flash in the pan Take charge.

要真正长久。

To really last.

对。

Yeah.

你会给他们什么

What advice do you

建议？

give them?

主动掌控。

Take charge.

好的。

Alright.

你能多说一点吗？

Can you say more?

掌控你的职业生涯。

Of your career.

掌控你的职业生涯。

Take charge of your career.

掌控你所做的事情。

Take charge of what you do.

对自己的决定要有信心。

Be confident in your decisions.

要倾听。

Listen.

当然，你需要倾听别人的意见。

Of course, you wanna listen to people.

要听那些懂行的人的话，但最终，决定还是要你自己来做。

Listen to people that know what they're doing, but ultimately, you have to make the decisions.

你必须做出自己的选择，而且必须做出对你来说正确的选择。

You have to make your choices, and you have to make the right choices for you.

而这件事只有你自己能做到。

And nobody can do that but yourself.

如果你只是随波逐流，你的职业生涯可能只能维持一小段时间。但如果你想要一个长久的职业生涯，你就必须主动掌控它，对它负责。

And if you just coast you you might have a career for a little while, but if you want a long career, you're gonna have to take charge and ownership of it.

你必须引导它。

And you're gonna have to guide it.

你必须时刻保持警觉，随时做出是或否的决定，还要运用你的技能去管理他人。

And you're gonna have to be have your finger on the button all the time, and you're gonna have to say yes or no, you're use gonna have your skills to manage people.

你也要运用你的技能去接受管理。

You're gonna have to use your skills to be managed.

这两件事可以同时发生，而且必须同时发生。

And both of those things can happen simultaneously, and they have to happen simultaneously.

你必须倾听聪明人的意见。

You have to listen to smart people.

但如果你对自己想做什么没有愿景，没有计划，也不每天付诸行动，那这一切都不会发生。

But if you don't have a vision about what you wanna do, if you don't have a plan about what you wanna do, if you don't act on it every day, it's not gonna happen.

就是不会发生的。

It's just not gonna happen.

就算你做了所有这些事，还是不会发生。

And you can do all those things and it's still not happen.

接下来，有请杰西卡·莱希。

Next up, Jessica Lahey.

杰西卡·莱希是一位教育家，也是《失败的礼物》和《成瘾的预防》这两本《纽约时报》畅销书的作者。

Jessica Lahey is an educator and the New York Times bestselling author of The Gift of Failure and The Addiction Inoculation.

所以我写了《失败的礼物》。

So I wrote the gift of failure.

那是我的第一本书。

It was my first book.

我当时不知道怎么写书，而会写书是一项需要学习的技能。

I didn't know how to write a book, and knowing how to write a book is a learned skill.

对吧？

Right?

所以，一个习惯写1200字的记者，突然要写七万字，而且第一次就能写得完美，我当时就是这么想的。

So the idea that a journalist who's used to writing 1,200 words could suddenly write 70,000 and do it perfectly their first time around, I had it in my head.

我幻想的是，我把初稿交上去，编辑回来跟我说，嗯，这里没什么要改的。

My fantasy was is I would hand my first draft in, and my editor would come back to me and she'd say, well, there's no edits here.

我的意思是，这就是定稿了。

I mean, this this is it.

这个我们可以提前出版。

This we could publish early.

这太完美了。

This is perfect.

但实际发生的是这样的。

What happened instead was this.

我按时在10月31日交了书稿。

I turned my book in on time on October 31.

然后11月1日，我和我丈夫去骑马了。

And on November 1, I went on a horseback ride with my husband.

我有个朋友养马，有时候会借给我骑。

My friend of mine has horses that she lets me borrow sometimes.

结果我从马上摔了下来，头先着地。

And I was thrown from the horse, and I landed on my head.

我一度失忆了，还暂时失去了阅读能力。

And I lost my memory and lost my ability to read for a little while.

那情况很糟糕。

It was bad.

真的非常糟糕。

It was really bad.

我都不记得前一天刚写完一本书，诸如此类的事情。

Didn't remember that I had finished a book the day before, all that sort of stuff.

所以我有一些脑震荡后遗症，其实主要是抑郁之类的。

So I had some post concussion syndrome that was really depression and stuff.

然后我接到了编辑的电话。

And then I got a call from my editor.

其实，我收到了编辑的邮件，让我去纽约做个演讲。

Actually, I got an email from my editor asking me to come to New York for a talk.

哎呀。

Uh-oh.

不要啊。

No.

是啊。

Yeah.

那可不太妙。

That's not good.

而且我的编辑，我特别崇拜她。

And my editor is like, I just idolized her.

她在出版界算是德高望重的前辈。

She's like a grand dame in publishing.

她非常了不起。

She's amazing.

所以这肯定不是什么好事。

So this wasn't gonna be good.

然后我去了，她跟我说了这么一番话。

And I went, and what she said was this.

天哪。

Oh gosh.

现在想起来我还想吐。

It still makes me wanna throw up.

她说这本书没法出版。

She said this book is unpublishable.

然后她说了最糟糕的部分。

And then she said the worst part.

那还不是最糟糕的。

That wasn't the worst part.

她说的是，我们需要考虑找个代笔。

What she said was, we need to think about bringing in a ghost.

这里的“幽灵”指的是代笔作家。

Now a ghost means a ghost writer.

对。

Yeah.

我本身就是个专业作家，她却想找个作家来帮我写书。

I am a professional writer, and she wants to bring in a writer to help me write my book.

所以我没有吐。

So I didn't throw up.

其实我为此还挺自豪的，但我说，你看。

I was actually very proud of myself for that, but I said, look.

而且我没哭，这也是件大事。

And I didn't cry, which was a also a huge thing.

我说，在我们这么做之前——而且我本来也需要更多时间，因为那次头部受伤确实耽误了我一阵子，所以我们有额外的时间可以安排。

I said, before we do that and I needed some extra time anyway because of the head injury that really got in my way for a while, so we had some extra time to play with.

我说，给我两章。

I said, give me two chapters.

给我两章试写的章节，然后告诉我哪里做得不好，以及你希望它是什么样子的。

Give me a probationary two chapters, and tell me everything I did wrong and what you want this to look like.

然后我记了满满一本笔记。

And I filled a notebook.

我在她办公室坐了一个多小时，听她讲我写得有多差，基本上就是说我的写作水平有多糟糕。

I sat in her office for we I was in there for over an hour listening to how bad I was, to how much I stank as a writer, essentially.

幸运的是，她人很好，她说的话也很中听，比如很多记者都会遇到这种情况。

Luckily, she was also lovely, and she said things like, this happens with a lot of journalists.

你习惯了写短篇，所以最后写出来的东西很零散，整体上不够连贯。

You're she used to writing in short bursts, and so you end up writing this very fragmented large thing that doesn't hold together as a whole.

你的文笔没问题。

And your writing is fine.

问题出在你的组织结构上，这才是你需要帮助的地方。

It's your organization that sucks, and that's what you need help with.

所以她就给了我那两章。

So she gave me those two chapters.

我回到家，翻遍了那本写满我写作有多糟糕的笔记。

And I went home, and I read over a notebooks full of how badly I suck as a writer.

我消化了那些内容，基本上把它变成了一张‘不要再犯’的清单。

And I digested it, and I turned it into essentially a checklist of what not to do again.

那两章变成了四章，四章变成了六章，最后变成了整本书，没有代笔，还成了《纽约时报》的畅销书。

And those two chapters turned into four, which turned into six, which turned into the whole book, no ghost writer, which turned into a New York Times bestselling book.

这还不是故事最精彩的部分。

That's not the best part of the story.

对我来说，最精彩的是，当她买下我的第二本书时，我按时交了稿。

The best part of the story for me was that when she bought my second book, I turned that book in on time.

我的经纪人有点紧张，因为她知道第一次我很难搞。

My agent was a little nervous because she knew I'd been a lot to handle the first time.

对吧？

Right?

我的编辑不得不逐行修改整本书，因为我太麻烦了。

My editor's having to, like, line edit an entire book because I'm a ton of work.

但我的第二本书已经按照‘不要再犯的清单’过滤过了，所以书稿非常干净，她甚至想把我的出版日期提前。

But I had run my second book through the what not to do again to do list filter, and the book was so clean that she wanted to move up my publication date.

所以并不是说我写作有多厉害。

So it's not that I'm a great writer.

而是我足够谦逊，愿意说：请教我怎么写得更好。

It's that I was humble enough to say, teach me how to be better.

我会把建议放在心上，并且能够客观地看待它。

I will take it to heart, and I will be able to be objective about it.

我会去运用它，不会再犯同样的错误。

And I will use it, and I won't make these same mistakes again.

所以当我交出《失败的礼物》以及之后那本书时，我向编辑证明了我从错误中学到了东西。

So when I handed in not only gift of failure, but then the next book, I was able to show my editor that I learned from my mistakes.

最暖心的是，她最近在一封邮件里称我为‘梦想作者’，因为我从错误中吸取了教训。

And and what was really sweet is she referred to me in a recent email as a dream author because I learned from my mistakes.

接下来，有请Dax Shepard。

Next up, Dax Shepard.

达克斯·谢泼德是一位演员、作家和导演，也是热门播客《扶手椅专家》的联合创始人和主持人。

Dax Shepard is an actor, writer, and director, and the cocreator and host of the hit podcast Armchair Expert.

你知道，你一直以来都很坦诚地分享自己的很多挑战。

You know, you've been very forthcoming with a lot of your challenges over time.

你做了一件我非常敬佩的事，那就是不光是展示光鲜亮丽的一面。

You do something that I respect a great deal, which is not leading with solely the highlight reel.

我觉得这对那些正在受苦的人来说是真正的帮助，我们每个人都在以不同的方式受苦，很多时候还是自己造成的伤。

I think that that's real service to people who are suffering as we all are in various ways, often self inflicted wounds.

我想知道你有没有一个最喜欢的失败经历。

And I wanted to know if you have perhaps a favorite failure.

我的意思是，一个错误或者当时你认为是失败的事情，后来却以某种方式为你的成功铺了路？

And what I mean by that is a mistake or something at the time that you viewed as a failure that in some way set you up for success later?

有没有什么事情让你受益匪浅，但当时看起来像是个缺点、失败或者错误？

There's anything that you gained from tremendously that at the time seemed like a shortcoming or a failure or a mistake?

我立刻想到的，也是和这次谈话最相关的，就是当《薯片》没能上映时，我伤心欲绝。

I mean, the one that jumps out immediately and is most relevant to this conversation is I was heartbroken when chips didn't open.

因为回到我的身份危机，那三年里我认定自己不再是演员了，我是编剧兼导演。

Because back to my identity crisis, I had a three year stretch where in my mind I decided I wasn't an actor anymore, I was a writer director.

而且我喜欢那样。

And I liked that.

感觉更高大上。

It felt loftier.

说实话，写剧本比演戏让我更有成就感。

Well, substantively, I feel a lot more pride over having written a script than having acted.

我确实觉得写剧本更难。

I do think it's harder.

所以有一部分是值得的，但我已经决定我是编剧兼导演，那将是我接下来十年的生活。

So some of it's worthwhile, but I had decided I was a writer director, and that was gonna be the next ten years of my life.

《警校菜鸟》在华纳兄弟试映反响很好，他们马上让我接手另一部电影，那是别人留下的项目，所以我一直在忙那个。

Chips had tested really high at Warner Brothers, and they immediately put me on another movie that I took over from some other people, and so I was doing that.

然后一夜之间，那一切就结束了。

And then overnight, that ended.

我已经没有那个身份了。

I did not have that identity anymore.

而且他们早就已经委托了《警界双雄》第二部。

And they had already commissioned Chips two.

我已经开始写那个了，然后我变得非常沮丧。

I was already beginning to write that, and, I got very depressed.

大概有三四个月，甚至更久，我开始算账，心想，好吧。

Like, for three, four months, maybe more, I started doing math and thinking, okay.

我现在能退休吗？

Could I retire now?

我现在能就此打住吗？

Like, could I be done now?

靠这笔钱生活，等等等等。

Live on this amount of money, blah blah blah.

我大部分时间都在想，我是不是彻底完了。

I that's what I was spending most of my time thinking about is whether I was completely done.

所以那时候我就想做播客了。

And that's when I wanted to do the podcast.

我当时脑子里翻来覆去想的太多了。

I was ruminating on so much stuff.

我在思考自己的生活、身份、人生轨迹，还有那些失败，然后我就开始了播客。

I was thinking about my own life and identity and trajectory and the failure, and I started it in the wake of that.

而且我觉得，因为那时候我对失败特别感兴趣，我经常在播客里说，我从一个举着艾美奖的人身上学不到任何东西。

And I think because I was so interested in failure at that time, I say often on the podcast, I have nothing to learn from someone holding a Emmy over their head.

我永远不会举着艾美奖，但如果那个人背叛了自己爱的人并且后悔了，我能感同身受。

I'll never be holding an Emmy over my head, but I I can relate if that person cheated on someone they love and regretted.

我能理解那些导致他失败的种种。

I can relate to the failures that led up to that.

那才是我能从中学习的东西。

That that's something I I can learn from.

就像我从戒酒互助会的人身上学到的那样。

That's how I learn from people in AA.

我从来不会从别人讲的成功故事里学到什么。

I don't ever learn from someone telling some victory story.

总是他们搞砸了然后意识到问题的时候，我才学到东西。

It's always how they fucked up and realized it.

所以现在回头看，你知道，如果我当初得到了我想要的，就是当编剧导演，那真的太耗时间了。

And so now in hindsight, you know, had I had the thing I wanted, which was being a writer director, it's so time consuming.

我拍完那部电影的时候，我的孩子一个一岁一个三岁，可能一个两岁一个四岁，我肯定就不在家了。

My kids were one and three when I finished that movie, maybe two and four, and I would have been gone.

我会接更大的电影。

I would have taken bigger movies.

我会更投入那方面。

I would have been way more into that.

讽刺的是，我最后赚的钱反而会更少。

Ironically, I would have ended up making less money.

所以，这件我当初完全不想做的事，以及我身份和愿望的彻底崩塌，结果反而让我能有很多时间陪孩子。

So this thing that I I had no desire to do and this this complete collapse of this identity I had and desire turned out to be something that allows me to be with my kids a ton.

我整天都在家。

I'm at home all the time.

我妻子如果想的话，可以出城工作。

My wife can take work out of town if she wants.

我可以旅行，同时做这个。

I can travel and do this.

你看，这个从那次巨大失败、二十年追求中走出来的生活，结果比我曾经想象的还要好。

Like, this life that came out of this epic failure, this twenty year pursuit, turned out to be something better than I had even thought to imagine.

我甚至不知道这样的生活可以存在。

I didn't even know that this could exist.

所以，对我来说，现在回头看，这很明显，我会说，天哪，那件事失败了真是谢天谢地。

So that's a very obvious one for me now that I look back and go like, fucking thank God that thing failed.

我本来会先写那部电影，然后导演它，然后试图让他们给我一亿美元来做这部。

I would have been writing that movie, then directing that movie, then trying to get them to give me a 100,000,000 to do this one.

而且，顺便说一句，电影行业正在崩溃，所以我会在几乎不可能做到的时候做所有这些。

And by the way, movie business is collapsing, so I would have been doing all that in in a time when it's almost impossible to do that.

所以，是的，那件事没成，我真是太幸运了。

So, yeah, I I got so lucky in that thing not performing.

真是够疯狂的。

Crazy enough.

真是个好故事。

What a story.

这让我想起我朋友说过的一句话，我记不清是谁了，但有时候生活需要把你从你想要的东西中拯救出来。

That makes me think of something a friend of mine said, I can't recall who it was, but sometimes you need life to save you from what you want.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，这故事真棒。

I mean, what a great story.

嗯，当你经历自己的人生，对吧，想想那些你如愿以偿的时刻，还有那些你没得到想要的时刻，而我最清楚的一点就是，我不知道什么对我最好。

Well, when you go through your own life, right, and you think of the times you got exactly what you wanted, and then the times you didn't get the thing you wanted, and what I know most is that I don't know what's best for me.

我得到那些我想要的东西，结果并没有像我预想或梦想的那样发展。

The things I got that I wanted did not turn out or result in anything I had I had forecast or dreamt of.

然而，所有那些我不想做的事情。

And yet all these things I didn't wanna do.

我不想上电视。

I didn't wanna be on TV.

我当时自以为是地觉得自己是个电影演员。

I had decided in my egotistical mind I was a movie actor.

我不想演电视剧。

I didn't wanna be in TV.

我勉强出演了《为人父母》这部剧，因为那时我的事业正处于低谷。

I reluctantly was on this show Parenthood because I was at a lull in my career.

那是我作为演员最棒的经历。

Best experience I've ever had as an actor.

它为我打开了通往其他许多表演机会的大门。

Opened up the doors for me to act in so many other things.

毫无疑问，这对我来说是作为演员最棒的经历。

Without question, the best thing that ever could have happened to me as an actor.

而这正是我当时不想做的事情。

And it was the thing I didn't wanna do.

而且，你知道，我后来真的做了我想做的事——在我自己导演的电影里骑摩托车翘头，结果却一塌糊涂。

And, you know, I got to do the exact thing I wanna do, ride wheelies on motorcycles in a movie I directed, and it fucking didn't turn out.

是的。

Yeah.

大家都知道，这几年我一直睡在今天赞助商Helix Sleep的Midnight Luxe床垫上。

As many of you know, for the last few years, I've been sleeping on a midnight luxe mattress from today's sponsor, Helix Sleep.

我在楼下的客房

I also have one in

也放了一张，

the guest

朋友们的反馈一直都特别好。

bedroom downstairs, and feedback from friends has always been fantastic.

这是他们主动提起来的，我根本不用引导。

It's something they comment on without any prompting from me whatsoever.

最近我还试了Helix Sunset Elite床垫。

I also recently had a chance to test the Helix Sunset Elite.

Sunset Elite在提供卓越舒适感的同时，还能在关键部位给予恰到好处的支撑。

The Sunset Elite delivers exceptional comfort while putting the right support in the right spots.

它由五层定制泡沫构成，包括底层带有全周边分区腰部支撑，正好在我需要的位置，中间层则采用优质泡沫和微型弹簧，带来柔软贴合的感觉。

It is made with five tailored foam layers, including a base layer with full perimeter zoned lumbar support right where I need it, and middle layers with premium foam and micro coils that create a soft contouring feel.

如果你正考虑升级睡眠体验，Helix在美国境内免费送货上门，并且让你试睡120晚。

If you're thinking about upgrading your sleep, Helix will ship it to your door for free in The US, let you sleep on it for one hundred and twenty nights.

如果你不喜欢，Helix保证退货流程完全无痛。

And if you don't love it, they're happy with Helix Guarantee, makes returns completely painless.

所以去看看吧。

So check it out.

访问helixsleep.com/tim，全场享受20%折扣。

Go to helixsleep.com/tim for 20% off site wide.

那就是helixsleep.com/tim，全场八折。

That's helixsleep.com/tim for 20% off site

全场。

wide.

接下来

Next

是凯西·拉尼尔。

up, Cathy Lanier.

凯西·拉尼尔是NFL的首席安全官，也是华盛顿特区大都会警察局首位女性局长，并且是任职时间最长的局长。

Cathy Lanier is the NFL's chief security officer and the first woman and longest serving chief to lead Washington DC's Metropolitan Police Department.

所以我就从，你知道，一个全A的天才学生，变成了七年级第一学期每门课都不及格。

So I went from, you know, a talented and gifted student with straight a's to failing literally every subject the first quarter of seventh grade.

所以我经常逃学。

So I was chronically truant.

我记得我平均每学期只去学校十九天。

I think I was averaging nineteen days a quarter that I was actually showing up for school.

我妈妈不知道，因为学校从来没通知过她。

My mother didn't know because the school never notified her.

等她晚上六点下班回到家，我们都围坐在一起，假装在做作业。

And by the time she got home from work at 6PM, we were all sitting around, like, pretending to do our homework.

所以我可怜的妈妈一直蒙在鼓里，直到八年级下学期才察觉。

So my poor mother had no idea until about midway through the eighth grade.

我逃学逃得太厉害了，所有主科都不及格。

I was so chronically truant that I was failing all of my major subjects.

与此同时，我逃学的时候，还跟一些不三不四的人混在一起。

So meanwhile, while I'm skipping school, I'm hanging out with the wrong people.

那些人年纪都大很多，是我哥哥的朋友，反正就是一群年纪更大的人，整天惹是生非。

Much older crowd, friends of my older brother and older you know, just an older crowd and just getting in trouble.

那时候我还爱上了一个比我大很多的男朋友，觉得自己坠入爱河了，想跟他私奔结婚。

And I fall in love with a much older boyfriend at the time, you know, think I'm in love and we wanna get married and run away and get married.

所以等我上九年级的时候，才14岁，就发现自己怀孕了。

And so by the time I was in the ninth grade, I'm 14 years old, found myself pregnant.

那时候我男朋友送了我一枚钻戒。

My boyfriend at the time had given me a diamond ring.

我们已经订婚了。

We were engaged.

我们打算结婚，所以就私奔了。

We're gonna get married, so we run away.

他当时26岁。

He was 26 at the time.

我才14岁。

I was 14.

我妈知道后，打算报警抓他。

My mother, when she finds out, was gonna have him arrested.

对吧？

Right?

她真的想把他送进监狱。

She she was gonna put him in jail.

所以我离家出走了，心想，没事，我们能搞定。

So I run away from home and think, well, we got this.

我们打算结婚，生下孩子，一切都会很美好。

We're gonna get married, and we're gonna have the baby, and everything's gonna be great.

这就是14岁孩子的想法。

The mind of a 14 year old.

显然，事情并没有按那个方向发展。

Obviously, things didn't work out that way.

有意思的是，我去找了我父亲，他大半辈子都不在我身边，我求他签字让我结婚。

So, interestingly, I went to my father who had been out of the picture most of my life and asked for him to sign for me to get married.

因为我的年龄，我的父母之一必须合法地把我的监护权转给我的丈夫。

Because of my age, one of my parents had to legally sign over my legal guardianship to my husband.

所以他们真的把我的监护权转给了我丈夫。

So they literally signed over my legal guardianship to my husband.

我父亲以为这样就能少付一个孩子的抚养费，因为一旦他签了字，他就……

So my dad, thinking he would have one less child to pay child support for, because once he signed over my guardianship, he

然后抚养费就没了。

And cuts the child support bill.

每个月就省下100美元的抚养费。

Paid $100 left a month in child support.

所以他就把我的监护权转给了我丈夫。

So he signed over my legal guardianship to my husband.

我十五岁生日第二天我们就结婚了。

We got married the day after my fifteenth birthday.

那时候我已经怀孕八个月了。

I was eight months pregnant at the time.

所以我想时间快进一下。

So I guess fast forward a little bit.

一年半之后，我又回到了家。

A year and a half later, I was back at home.

我妈晚上带我去上GED课程。

My mother was taking me to GED classes at night.

我还在婚姻里的时候，就偷偷去上GED课程。

I was sneaking to go to GED classes when I was still married.

我丈夫不同意我去上学。

My husband didn't approve of me going to school.

所以我们分开后，我妈确保我继续上学，拿到GED，她还会把打字机从工作的地方带回家，在厨房桌子上教我打字。

So once we separated, my mom made sure I stayed in school, got my GED, and she would bring her typewriter home from work, and she taught me how to type on the kitchen table.

她教我打字和一点速记，然后我就去找了份秘书的工作。

So she taught me how to type and take a little shorthand, and I went and got a job as a secretary.

我谎报了年龄。

I lied about my age.

我16岁就去当了秘书。

I went and got a job as a secretary when I was 16.

所以开始做秘书，晚上还在酒吧当服务员。

So started working as secretary and then worked as a waitress in the evening in a bar.

为了在酒吧工作，我也谎报了年龄。

Also lied about my age to get into, to work in a bar.

那是我工作那一片唯一的选择。

That was the only option up in my the area where I was working.

所以接下来的几年里，我打两份工，一份秘书，一份服务员，你知道，我的动力其实是我儿子。

So for the next several years, I worked two jobs as as a secretary and a waitress, and I you know, my motivation really was my son.

对我来说那是个挺重要的时刻，我一生中有过几个这样的时刻。

It was kind of a a significant moment for me, and I've had a few in my life.

我儿子出生的时候，我从来没照看过孩子。

When my son was born, I had never babysat before.

我从来没抱过婴儿。

I'd never held a baby.

我对婴儿一无所知。

I didn't know anything about babies.

有孩子。

There were children.

他出生的时候，真是个乖宝宝。

And when he was born, he was such a good baby.

他的婴儿床就在我卧室里，我床尾的位置，早上我醒来的时候，他已经醒了。

His crib was at the end of my bed in my bedroom, and I'd wake up in the morning, and he'd be awake.

他就那样看着我，等着我醒来。

He'd just be looking at me, waiting for me to wake up.

对吧？

Right?

也不哭。

Not crying.

什么也不闹。

Not nothing.

就只是看着我。

He would just be looking at me.

所以大概过了三个星期，

So about three weeks into

对。

this Yeah.

这个实验进行了大约三周后，一天早上我看着他的时候，第一次意识到我是父母，那个无助的小婴儿完全依赖我。

About three weeks into this experiment, I'm looking at him one morning, and it just dawns on me for the first time that I'm a parent and that helpless little baby was completely reliant on me.

我妈妈总是强调教育和工作的对我们来说有多重要。

And my mother was always stressed the importance of education and work to us.

而我呢，你知道，我丈夫不让我去上学。

And here I was, you know, my husband didn't allow me to go to school.

我永远也找不到工作。

I would never be able to get a job.

我看着这个可怜无辜的小婴儿，心里想，他的一生都取决于我。

And I'm looking at this poor little innocent baby, and I'm thinking his whole life depends on me.

而我只有九年级的教育水平，我能给他提供什么呢？

And what am I gonna be able to provide with a ninth grade education?

其实也提供不了多少。

And not much.

那一刻真的很触动我。

That was a moment.

我特别想问你关于刚才你分享的那几分钟里的事，但我得忍住，不然咱们的时间全花在这上面了。

I'm gonna resist the temptation to ask 300 questions about the last few minutes that you shared because we'll we'll end up spending all of our time there if I do that.

但我确实对你很好奇。

But I am curious for you.

我试着站在你那个年纪的角度去想。

I'm trying to put myself in your shoes at that young age.

当你和你前夫分开的时候——我们不用细说，除非你愿意分享——那时候，你觉得你自己会变成什么样？

When you and we we don't need to get into the details unless you'd like to share, but when you separated from your then husband, like, when that happened, what did you think was going to become of you?

你当时觉得自己未来的路会怎么走？

Like, what did you envision your path would be at that point?

我猜那一定非常艰难。

I have to imagine that it would have just been incredibly challenging.

我不知道。

I don't know.

网上说的不能全信，但我确实看到过，说你小时候梦想当律师。

You can't believe everything you read on the Internet, but I I read that when you were a young girl, you dreamed of being a lawyer.

我不知道这是不是真的，还是

I don't know if that's true or

不是。

not.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后转眼间，你经历了这一整段动荡的历程，最后回到了家。

And then flash forward, you go through this entire tumultuous experience and you land back at home.

你觉得你的人生会走向何方？

Where did you think your life was headed?

那时候你觉得你会走向哪里？

Where did you think you were headed at that point?

我知道，以我九年级的教育程度，又是一个单亲妈妈，我根本不可能做到我认为世界上最重要的事情，那就是照顾我的儿子。

I knew that with a ninth grade education and a single mom that I had zero chance of being able to do what I thought was most important in the world, and that's take care of my son.

当我刚搬回家时，我拿到了高中同等学力证书，但在我这个年纪，我还是很难找到工作。

And when I first moved back home, I got my GED, but I still was not able to easily find a job at my age.

我当时，你知道，才16岁。

I was, you know, 16.

我17岁。

I was 17.

我得等到16岁零9个月才能参加考试拿到GED。

I had to wait till I was 16 and nine months to take the test to get the GED.

有意思的是，通过考试需要255分。

Interestingly, you needed two fifty five to pass the test.

我考了256分。

I got two fifty six.

我以一分之差通过了。

I passed it by one point.

天哪。

Oh my god.

塔可钟。

Taco Bell.

这就像我人生转折点的一个小注脚。

Little, like, footnote of my sliding door these sliding door moments.

天哪。

Holy cow.

对吧？

Right?

我妈妈一直强调教育和工作的重性，所以我知道我必须回到学校。

My mother had always stressed the importance of education and work, so I knew I had to go back to school.

而且我想上大学。

And I wanted to go to college.

我不想让我的儿子再经历我小时候那种糟糕的社区和学校。

I didn't want my son to be subject to the same crappy neighborhoods and the same crappy schools that I went to.

我想让他有真正的机会。

I wanted him to have a real chance.

我知道如果我想做到这一点，就必须回到学校，接受大学教育。

And I knew if I was gonna do that, I had to go back to school and get a college education.

如果我不这么做，我就会和我妈妈当年带着我一样，站在同样的食品券队伍里。

If I didn't do that, I was standing in the same food stamp line my mother stood in with me.

我记得第一次去领食品券的那天，走进乔治王子广场附近那栋白色的大楼，离我家很近，我带着儿子排在同一条队伍里，就像我小时候和妈妈一起排的那样。

I remember the first day I went to get food stamps, Going to the big white building by Prince George's Plaza right near my home and standing in the same line with my son that I stood in with my mom when I was a kid.

我当时就想，这不是我该走的路。

And I was like, this is not my path.

这不能是我该走的路。

This can't be my path.

所以，当我找到秘书的工作后，他们提供学费报销让我去上大学，于是我开始上社区大学。

So I just when I got my job as a secretary, they offered tuition reimbursement to go to college, so I started a community college.

我一开始每学期只修一门课。

I just started taking one class a semester.

一切就是从那里开始的。

And, that's where it started.

每学期一门课，而且他们还会报销学费。

One class a semester, and they reimbursed me for it.

我记得，我是说，对于没有联系的人来说，我们一直想安排这次采访，而且可以理解，你有很多事情要忙。

I recall I mean, for people who don't have contacts, we've been trying to schedule this for a while, and understandably, you got a lot of balls to juggle.

而且我记得只是听到你故事的一些片段。

And I remember hearing just pieces of your story.

那是很久以前的事了。

This was god.

肯定是一年多以前了吧，我确定。

It has to be, what, more than a year ago now, I'm sure.

时间过得真快，但确实已经过了很久了。

Time flies, but it's been a long while.

我当时就在想，天哪，我希望有一天我们能在播客里聊这些。

And I just remember thinking to myself, god, I hope someday that we can have this conversation on the podcast.

所以再次感谢你愿意来。

So I wanna thank you again for doing it.

那你后来是怎么走过来的呢？

How do you then go from there?

那是什么把这一切串联起来的？最终让你进入执法领域的关键事件是什么？

What is the connective tissue, sort of the catalyzing events that ultimately get you into law enforcement?

最开始推动你往那个方向走的几个契机是什么？

What are the first few dominoes that get tipped over that start to push you in that direction?

说实话，我家是公共服务世家。

So to be fair, my family's a public service family.

我父亲是消防员。

My father was firefighter.

我大哥高中一毕业就当上了消防员。

My oldest brother had become a firefighter right out of high school.

我另一个哥哥是警察。

My other brother was a police officer.

我当时在做秘书工作。

I was working as a secretary.

那个学期我一边做秘书，一边修一门课，想把我儿子送进私立学校。

I was taking that one class this semester working as a secretary, trying to get my son in private school.

我想让他上私立学校。

I wanted him in private school.

我不想让他去那些学校。

I did not want him going to those schools.

我当时还住在那个破旧的社区，但我希望我的儿子能上一所好学校。

I was still living in the same crappy neighborhood, but that I wanted my son in a good school.

然后我看到了一则广告。

And I saw an ad.

我当时23岁。

I was 23 years old.

我在《华盛顿邮报》上看到了一则大都会警察局的招聘广告。

I saw an ad in the Washington Post for the Metropolitan Police Department.

他们正在招人。

They were hiring.

吸引我注意的是《邮报》上的整版广告。

And what caught my attention is the full page ad in the post.

那半页广告讲的是学费报销。

The half of the page was the tuition reimbursement.

我当时就想，天哪。

I'm like, oh my god.

学费报销。

Tuition reimbursement.

我当时一个学期只付得起一门课的钱。

I'm paying for one class a semester.

要拿个学位得花我三十年。

I'm gonna take me thirty years to get a degree.

所以我就跟一个朋友去了，我们排队等着。

So I went with a friend and we went and stood in line.

他们当时要招一千名警察。

They were hiring a thousand cops.

那是在华盛顿可卡因战争期间，九十年代初。

This was during the, the crack cocaine wars in Washington, early nineteen ninety.

那时候华盛顿一年有500起谋杀案，被称为世界谋杀之都。

So 500 murders a year, DC was known as the murder capital of the world at the time.

所以我就跟着一千多个人排队，去参加了考试，结果我大概排在前60名。

So I just went and stood in line with a thousand other people, went and took the test, and I came out I wanna say I came out like 60 out of a thousand people on that test.

所以他们很快就联系了我。

So they called me right away.

我是房间里唯一的白人女性。

I was the only white female in the room.

那是九十年代初的事了。

This is back in the early nineties.

当时华盛顿特区大约89%是非裔美国人。

Washington DC was was about 89% African American.

对吧？

Right?

所以我感受到了我母亲照顾我们时的那种动力，因为我有个儿子需要我。

So I felt the same drive my mother felt taking care of us is that I have son that needs me.

他需要我养活他，而我唯一能做的就是找份好工作。

He needs me to provide for him, and the only way I'm gonna do this is get a good job.

政府工作是个不错的选择，然后再回学校拿个学位。

Government job, not a bad option, and go back school and get my degree.

所以1990年，我被大都会警察局录用了。

So I got hired by the Metropolitan Police in 1990.

我开始在街上巡逻。

I started walking a foot beat.

我从警校毕业的第一天，就赶上了芒特普莱森特骚乱。

My first day out of the academy was Mount Pleasant riots.

所以毕业第一天，我去上班，五天都没回家。

So my first day out of the academy, I went to work and didn't come home for five days.

那真是太好了。

It was great.

接下来，有请詹娜·莱文。

Next up, Janna Levin.

詹娜·莱文是一位理论宇宙学家，是巴纳德学院物理学和天文学系的克莱尔·陶教授，也是古根海姆学者、笔会奖得主，以及先锋工场科学项目的创始主任。

Janna Levin is a theoretical cosmologist, the Claire Tau professor of physics and astronomy at Barnard College, a Guggenheim Fellow, a pen winning author, and the founding director of sciences at Pioneer Works.

让我们用这个作为引子，来谈谈你在我的上一本书《导师部落》中非常客气地给出的一个回答。

Let's use this as a segue to an answer that you provided very graciously in my last book, Tribe of Mentors.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我问了一个问题。

I asked a question.

在过去五年里，什么新的信念、行为或习惯对你的生活改善最大？

In the last five years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved your life?

所以我就读一下这个，然后我们再深入探讨。

So I'm just gonna read this, and then we'll we'll dive into it.

这些都是你的原话。

So these are your words.

我以前会怨恨路上的障碍，心想，要是那件事没发生，生活该多好啊。

I used to resent obstacles along the path thinking, if only that hadn't happened, life would be so good.

后来我突然意识到，生活本身就是那些障碍。

Then I suddenly realized life is the obstacles.

没有什么隐藏的道路。

There is no underlying path.

我们在这里的角色就是学会更好地应对这些障碍。

Our role here is to get better at navigating those obstacles.

我努力保持冷静、从容的回应，把阻碍看作是解决问题的机会。

I strive to find calm, measured responses to see hindrances as a chance to problem solve.

虽然我常常会陷入旧有的沮丧情绪，但只要提醒自己，这是一个提升自己的机会，我就能把冲突重新定义为尝试解决方案的契机。

Often, fall back into old frustrations, but if I remind myself, this is a chance to step up, I can reframe conflicts as a chance to experiment with solutions.

是什么让你有了这样的领悟？

What led to this realization?

天哪。

Oh, man.

这是我们可能都会有的，那些钉在墙上让我们攀附的大石头。

It is one of my we might all have these certain boulders we nail into the wall to cling to.

对我来说，这绝对是其中之一。

This is one of them for me very much so.

我觉得我们都在纠结谁有特权、谁没有特权这个问题。

I think we struggle with the idea of who's privileged and who's not privileged.

你得到了哪些机会？

What opportunities have you been given?

你靠自己的努力赢得了什么？

What have you earned?

我们每个人的平衡点都不一样。

And we all have a different balance of that.

我的父母绝对是女权主义者。

I definitely had feminist parents.

你知道吗？

You know?

我的父母很有学识。

I had intellectual parents.

我有很多顺境和优势。

I had a lot of ups and advantages.

当我遇到障碍时，我真的很不喜欢有人站出来质问我，你对女性在科学领域有什么看法？

And when I came to blocks in the road, I really didn't like that I had people to stand up on me and demand, what do you have to say about being a woman in science?

这真的让我很烦，我想，但你们没有提到我从其他人那里得到的那些帮助，以及我环顾四周，看不到很多多样性。

Like, it really bugged me, and I thought, but you're not talking about all these leg ups I had from all these other people and how I look around, and I don't see, you know, a lot of diversity.

为什么我只应该谈论我道路上的困难呢？

Why should I only talk about the hardship in my road?

这让我本能地感到不舒服。

Like, it bugged me instinctively.

我想我意识到的是，因为我舒适的童年，我被灌输了一种观念，认为生活很美好，只要不搞砸就行了，但这是错误的。

And I think that what I realized was I had been sold because of my kind of comfy childhood an idea that life is great and just don't screw it up, and that's false.

对大多数人来说，生活并不美好，他们需要做的远不止是不搞砸。

Life is not great for most people, and they have to do a hell of a lot more than not screw it up.

他们必须建桥铺路，做前人从未想过的事情，与贫困作斗争，并找到解决方案。

They have to build bridges and pave ways and do things no one's ever thought of and fight poverty and and find solutions.

我只是觉得，教给我最多东西的人都是做了那些事的人，而且我们得停止幻想了。

And I just thought the people that have taught me the most have done those things, and that we have to stop fantasizing.

你知道，我爸爸总是说，你知道，我爸爸出身比较苦，他总说，生活是不公平的。

You know, my dad always said you know, my dad was from a, you know, tougher upbringing, and he always said, life isn't fair.

他老跟我说这个。

He told me that all the time.

天哪。

Oh my god.

太搞笑了。

It's so hilarious.

我完全能听到他说这话的样子。

I can totally hear him saying it.

生活不是那样的。

Life's not there.

不是公平不公平的问题。

It's not about fairness.

没人告诉你你理应得到公平。

Nobody told you you were owed fairness.

没有这回事。

No such thing.

这真的让我明白，生活就是一连串的障碍。

And it really taught me to think that, oh, life is a series of obstacles.

它不是一条铺好的路。

It's not a paved path.

障碍才是让你成长的东西。而且，你知道，当我真的搞砸了类似的事情时，我感到非常深的羞愧。

And the obstacles are what make you And, you know, when I've really screwed up with something like that, I felt really deep shame.

没人需要告诉我该感到羞愧。

Nobody had to tell me to be ashamed.

我感到非常深的羞愧。

I felt really deep shame.

而当我成功做到时，我感觉非常好，也不需要别人告诉我应该为此感到高兴。

And when I've succeeded in that, I felt really good, and nobody needed to tell me I should feel good about it.

这很明显。

It's just obvious.

所以我就开始把生活看作一连串的障碍，这些障碍就是考验、试炼，就像是教你如何成为更好的人的课程，而且你要为后来的人铺路，而不是为自己铺路。

And so I started to see life as a series of obstacles that were tests, trials, you know, teaching modules of how to be a better person and to pave the way behind you, not in front of you.

这对我来说确实是一个非常重要的原则，我觉得，当我看到某件事发生时，我不会觉得这太不公平了。

And it's really been a pretty important principle for me, I guess, that when I see something happen, I don't think this is so unfair.

他们为什么要这样对我？

Why are they doing this to me?

相反，我会想，好吧。

That I think instead, okay.

我能不能站起来，找到解决这个问题的办法？

Am I able to rise to figure out a solution to this?

我并不是总能做到这一点。

And I'm not always able to do that.

你知道吗？

You know?

但当我做到的时候，我觉得那是真正的进步。

But when I do, I feel like it's genuine progress.

什么是赋能的能动性视角？

What's an enabling lens of agency?

我们在录制前稍微聊过一点，但我是说，不管你是谁，有些人肯定比其他人更容易遇到迎面而来的打击。

We talked about a little bit before recording, but, I mean, there's certainly whoever you are, and some people certainly much more than others, you're going to run into boots in the face.

迎面而来的打击。

Dribs in the face.

对。

Yeah.

然后问题就是，当你遇到迎面而来的打击时，你会怎么做？

And then the question is, what do you do when you run into a boot in the face?

对。

Yeah.

所以我觉得很有意思的是，某些有特权的人对迎面而来的打击感到愤怒，因为他们被告知前面的路已经铺好了。

So I think it's very interesting that certain people with privilege are enraged by a boot in the face because they were told that they had the road paved ahead of them.

而且不去这么想反而是一种优势，这样当靴子踩到你脸上时，你的第一反应不会是‘你怎么敢这样？’

And it's an advantage to not think that so that when the boot is in your face, your immediate reaction isn't like, how dare you?

这是我应得的。

I deserve this.

这个机会本来就该是我的。

I'm owed this opportunity.

相反，你的反应会是，‘哦，原来你是这样的人。’

That your reaction is instead, oh, that's who you are.

你就是那个踩靴子的人，那我怎么绕开你呢？

You're the guy with the boot, and what can I do to go around you?

我怎么才能越过你？

What can I do to go over your head?

并且对此坦然接受。

And to be okay with that.

我觉得我们很多人都紧紧抓着学位和荣誉不放。

I think a lot of us cling to the degrees and the accolades.