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美国在世界上有一个伟大的盟友，它最主要的盟友。
America has one great ally in the world, its chief ally.
按某些说法，也许这是它唯一真正的盟友，那就是以色列国。
By some calculations, maybe it's only real ally, that's the state of Israel.
这种情况已经持续很长时间了。
And that has been the case for a long time.
事实上，久到几乎没人质疑这是否明智，或者确切原因是什么。
In fact, so long that few people question whether that's a good idea or why exactly that is.
众所周知我们最亲密的盟友是以色列，我们与以色列有着各种军事和经济联系。
Everyone knows our closest ally is Israel and we have all kinds of military and economic ties to Israel.
但以色列是我们最亲密盟友的主要体现是——直到前几天前，你根本想象不出美国会在任何情况下选择支持其他国家而非以色列。
But the main way you know Israel is our closest ally is that really up until just the other day there was not a scenario you could conjure in your head in which The United States would take the side of any other country over Israel.
这根本不可能发生。
It just couldn't happen.
所以以色列是我们的首要盟友。
So Israel's our chief ally.
情况并非一直如此。
Hasn't always been this way.
当然，以色列直到二战后才成立。
Of course, didn't exist until right after the Second World War.
所以这一切都相当新，且每十年都在加速发展。
So it's all pretty new and it's accelerated with every decade.
我们与以色列的关系越来越紧密。
We've become closer and closer to Israel.
我们的承诺——不是法律或公开讨论的承诺，而是实际执行中的承诺——对以色列的支持逐年增强。
Our commitment, not our legal commitment or publicly discussed commitment, our in effect commitment are on the ground commitment Israel has become stronger every year.
但没有理由让这种关系永远保持不变。
But there's no reason that should stay the way it is forever.
如果我们决定改变呢？
What if we decided to change it up?
如果我们决定在世界上结交一个新的最亲密盟友呢？
What if we decided to get a new closest ally in the world?
卡塔尔怎么样？
How about Qatar?
如果卡塔尔成为我们最亲密的盟友会怎样？
What if Qatar was our closest ally?
下次参加晚宴时不妨抛出这个话题。
Float that one at the next dinner party you go to.
人们的反应会很激烈，尤其是福克斯新闻的观众。
People will respond strongly, especially if they're Fox News viewers.
什么？
What?
你是伊斯兰主义者吗？
Are you an Islamist?
卡塔尔？
Qatar?
那个嗜血的伊斯兰法西斯国家。
The bloodthirsty Islamofascist state.
卡塔尔游说集团付了你多少钱？
What are you getting paid by the Qatar lobby?
一只鸭子？
A quack?
当然，实际上并没有鸭子，但如果真有卡塔尔游说集团，它该被称为‘鸭团’。
Of course, there is no actual a quack, but if there was a Qatar lobby, it should be called a quack.
然后你就得被迫解释为何卡塔尔理应成为我们最亲密的盟友——人们自然会像看疯子一样看你，甚至觉得你危险且可能反美。
And then you would be forced to explain why Qatar should be our closest allied of course people look at you like you're insane in fact dangerous and probably anti American.
咱们暂时把吉他放一边。
Let's stick guitar out of it for a second.
如果你是美国，你觉得谁该成为你最亲密的盟友？这个职位该给谁？你会带谁去毕业舞会？
How do you think about if you're The United States who ought to be your closest ally who gets that job who do you take to the prom.
这取决于你的思考角度——若以美国利益为透镜，即什么对我们有利，那情况就大不相同了。
And it depends on how you think about if you think about through the lens of American interest which is to say what's good for us, then it's a very different picture.
什么对我们有利？
What's good for us?
嗯，你会希望这个国家拥有，比如说，你可能想获取的自然资源，能源可能是首要的，但也可能包括矿产，不过能源如石油和天然气肯定是关键，因为尽管有人可能告诉你不需要，但我们确实需要它们来维持文明、保持强大与繁荣。
Well, you would want a country that had, I don't know, natural resources that you might want to have access to, energy, probably first and foremost, but maybe not, minerals too, but certainly energy oil and gas because we need them despite what they may tell you to continue our civilization and to be strong and prosperous.
因此，充足的能源供应将非常重要。
So a big energy supply would be important.
强大的军力也会有所帮助，而要拥有强大的军队，自然需要大量人口来充实军力——乌克兰现在不幸地发现，人多确实好办事。
A powerful military might also help and have a powerful military of course you need a big population to man the military as Ukraine unfortunately is finding out now it helps to have a lot of people.
所以，如果纯粹从对美国有利、美国优先的角度来看，有几个国家可能会被列入考虑范围。
So there are couple of different countries you might throw out there if you're looking purely through the lens of what's good for The United States and America first perspective.
最显而易见的当然是俄罗斯。
The most obvious of course would be Russia.
俄罗斯。
Russia.
为什么？因为它是世界上面积最大的国家，拥有巨大的矿产和能源储量，包括大量石油、天然气、黄金以及维持社会运转所需的一切资源。
Why because it's the biggest country in the world's the biggest land mass in the world and it has enormous mineral deposits energy deposits got a lot of oil and gas and gold and everything else you need to run a society.
此外，它还拥有一支强大的军队，在欧洲大陆上规模最大，并且具备庞大的制造业产能。
And it also has a formidable military by far the biggest on that continent on the European continent and huge manufacturing capacity.
比如，如果你需要一个盟友在冲突中帮助你，或者需要一个国家作为与某国作战的基地，比如部署空军基地。
So like if you needed an ally to help you in a conflict or if you need a country in which to stage a fight with some other country place put air bases for example.
俄罗斯当然是最佳选择，但我们不能与俄罗斯结盟，因为俄罗斯在道德上是邪恶的。
Russia would be like the best of course, but we can't be allied with Russia because Russia is bad there are moral.
他们很坏。
They're bad.
你或许还会说，委内瑞拉。
You might also say, Venezuela.
为什么是委内瑞拉？
Why Venezuela?
因为该国拥有全球最大的已探明石油储量。
Well, because they have the largest proven oil reserves in the world.
它们位于我们的半球。
They're in our hemisphere.
我不知道。
I don't know.
那里有大量的自然资源。
Lots of natural resources is right there.
为什么不把他们变成重要盟友呢？
Why not make them a big ally?
说到建立军事基地和贸易往来的地方，那可能对我们有帮助。
Talk about a place for military bases and trade and that might help us.
如果我们想帮助自己的国家，他们有很多我们可以受益的东西。
They've got a lot that we might benefit from if we wanted to help our country.
你做不到。
You can't.
他们很坏。
They're bad.
他们坏到我们要入侵他们。
They're so bad we're gonna invade them.
他们道德败坏到我们必须与之开战。
They're so immoral we have to go to war with them.
我们不能与他们结盟。
We cannot be allies with them.
我们必须与他们战斗。
We have to fight them.
他们就是如此道德败坏。
That's how immoral they are.
某种程度上你会想到一些地方，比如赤道几内亚。
Well at a certain point you get to places like, I don't know, Equatorial Guinea.
那里可能算不上民主灯塔，是个小国，但能源储量惊人。
Probably not a beacon of democracy, small country, tons of energy though.
更明显的例子如沙特、阿联酋、巴林、阿曼、科威特等海湾国家，这些地方可能都不错，虽然政体与我们不同。
And then the more obvious ones like Saudi Arabia or UAE or Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, the rest of the Gulf States like those might all be good and we don't have their same form of government.
这些都是彼此相邻的君主制国家，但都拥有大量能源，且普遍亲美，地理位置重要。
Those are all monarchies monarchies clustered next to each other, but all of them have a ton of energy and they're all pretty pro American and they're in an important part of the world.
所以这并非关乎卡塔尔民族主义或试图推广卡塔尔。
So it's not a matter of being a Qatari nationalist or trying to promote Qatar.
当你思考谁应该成为你国家的盟友时，你考虑的是你的国家。
As you think about who should be an ally of your nation, you think about your nation.
什么对我们有利？
What's good for us?
我们如何服务我们的人民、我们的公民、投票支持我们的人、为这一切买单的人？
How do we serve our people, our citizens, people voted for us, who pay for all of this?
什么符合他们的利益？
Like what's in their interest?
卡塔尔看起来是个显而易见的选择，但不必是唯一的选择。
And Qatar just seems like an obvious one, but doesn't have to be the only one.
今晚我们选择讨论它的唯一原因，是因为关于卡塔尔有太多虚假信息。
And the only reason we're choosing it tonight is because there's so much falseness about Qatar.
如果你看福克斯新闻，你会认为卡塔尔是邪恶的，他们秘密操控着美国。
If you watch FOX News, you know Qatar is evil and they're secretly running The United States.
他们可能没告诉你，他们的老板刚去过卡塔尔试图筹款——这不是对他们老板的攻击。
They probably don't tell you that their owner was just in Qatar trying to raise money which is not an attack on their owner.
这仅仅是不整天看福克斯新闻的人都知道的事实：卡塔尔是世界的一部分，很多人都会去那里。
It's merely merely an acknowledgement of what everyone who doesn't watch FOX News all day knows which is Qatar is part of the world and lots of people go there.
我们两天前在那里，希拉里·克林顿也是。
We're there two days ago so is Hillary Clinton.
比尔·盖茨也是，看起来有点憔悴。
So is Bill Gates looking kind of cadaverous.
这不是因为我们喜欢希拉里·克林顿或比尔·盖茨才去那里的。
And it's not because we love Hillary Clinton or Bill Gates were there.
而是因为所有人都在那里，如果你想采访人，你大概应该去卡塔尔，因为所有人都在那里。
It's because like everyone's there and if you want to interview people, you should probably go to Qatar because everyone's there.
为什么大家都在那里？
Why is everyone there?
因为那是一个相当开放的社会，有很多活动在进行，他们资源丰富，并且欢迎人们讨论他们国家的事情。
Because it's a pretty open society because they have lot of stuff going on, they got a lot of resources, and they welcome people to talk about things in their country.
这并不坏，这些都不是坏事。
That's not bad, those are not bad things.
为什么有人告诉我们卡塔尔很糟糕？
Why are we being told Qatar is so bad?
当然，原因和我们听说许多国家很糟糕一样——如果我们有其他强大的盟友，可能会影响我们唯一真正盟友以色列的利益。
Well, of course, the same reason we hear a lot of countries are bad because if we have other strong allies that might affect the interest of our really our only ally, which would be Israel.
所以，就当是个有趣的练习（不是伊斯兰主义，也不支持伊斯兰恐怖主义），对照这些国家的标准事实，比如把以色列和卡塔尔作比较，然后你自己判断哪个国家可能更适合作为美国的主要盟友。
And so just for fun, just like a little exercise, not an Islamism, this is not endorsement of Islamic terror, it's kind of interesting to go through the criteria, the facts about these countries, compare Israel to, say, Qatar, and you decide for yourself what you think might be a more useful ally for The United States to have, maybe even a chief ally.
据我们所知，这些都是事实。
And these are all facts as far as we know.
当然，欢迎随时查证。
Of course, feel free to look them up.
可以用维基百科或其他来源核对我们的说法，比如Grokopedia。
Check our facts against Wikipedia or whatever, Grokopedia.
顺便说一句，去那里看看吧。
Go there by the way.
你应该去卡塔尔看看。
You should go to Qatar.
四处逛逛一两天。
Wander around for a day or two.
顺便说一句，你可以乘坐全球最棒的航空公司——全程使用星链网络——前往那里。
You can fly in the world's greatest airline by the way as you get there, which is Starlink the entire way.
卡塔尔有很多优点。
There's a lot of good stuff about Qatar.
美食可口，人民友善。
Good food, nice people.
只管去那里看看。
But just go there.
别只听我们的一面之词。
Don't take our word for it.
如果有人告诉你卡塔尔是个有奴隶市场和穿罩袍女性的地狱般地方，不妨去度个周末。
If you're being told that Qatar is this hellscape with slave markets and women in Percocos or whatever, spend a weekend.
亲眼见证。
See for yourself.
没人鼓励你这么做。
You're not encouraged to do that.
你从来不被鼓励去亲眼见证任何事。
You're never encouraged to see anything for yourself.
别自己做研究。
Don't do your own research.
相信科学，相信我们的观点，相信我们在推特上发布的两分钟剪辑视频。如果你不同意这些，那你显然就是伊斯兰主义者、纳粹、种族主义者——随便我们怎么攻击你的人品。
Trust the science trust our view trust the two minute clip we put on twitter and if you don't agree with that then you're obviously Islamist Nazi racist whatever we're going to attack your character.
但这一次，不妨亲自去看看。
But for once, like, see for yourself.
以下是卡塔尔和以色列的一些差异。
So here's some of the differences between Qatar and Israel.
再次声明，这绝对不是对以色列的攻击，也不是在宣传卡塔尔。
Again, this is not an attack in Israel for sure, and it's not promoting Qatar.
我们只是在尽力宣传自己的国家，它现在正需要盟友。
It's just trying our best to promote our country, which could use allies right about now.
首先，是资源问题。
So, the first is resources.
以色列基本上没有任何资源。
And Israel has basically no resources at all.
我是说，它的汽油来自阿塞拜疆。
I mean, its gasoline comes from Azerbaijan.
基本上它使用的所有东西都需要进口。
I mean, it needs to import basically everything that it uses.
并非所有东西。
Not everything.
我们拥有蓬勃发展的科技产业，但自然资源非常非常有限，包括水资源。
We've got a thriving tech sector, but for natural resources, they are very, very limited, that would include water.
卡塔尔拥有世界上最大的天然气田之一——著名的北方气田。
Qatar has, well, some of the largest natural gas reserves in the world in their famous North gas field.
而且我认为他们是欧洲最大的液化天然气出口国。
And they are the, I think, number one LNG exporter to Europe.
而且绝对是亚洲最大的供应国之一。
And one of the biggest certainly to Asia.
液化天然气，全球许多地方都依赖它运转。
Liquefied natural gas, it's what a lot of the world runs on.
它也是许多消费品的来源，因为可以转化为塑料、聚乙烯等多种产品。
It's also where a lot of consumer products come from because it's converted to plastics, polyethylene and many other things.
因此，拥有大量天然气不仅能让你变得富有，对国家经济和帮助盟友也大有裨益。
So, like having a lot of natural gas is not just something that makes you rich, it's something that is really good for your country, your economy, and it can help your friends.
这是首先要了解的一点。
So, that's the first thing to know.
卡塔尔拥有丰富的自然资源。
Qatar has a ton of natural resources.
以色列则没有任何自然资源。
Israel has no natural resources.
好的。
Okay.
第二点需要了解的是，卡塔尔是美国非常热心的投资者。
The second thing to know is that Qatar is a very enthusiastic investor in The United States.
因此这被曲解为一件坏事。
So that's being spun as a bad thing.
他们试图接管我们的社会。
They're trying to take over our society.
如果你最近在美国待过，
Now, if you've been in The U.
S.
S.
四处走走并注意到它明显变得更卡塔尔化，请发邮件告诉我们你去过哪里，因为我们实际上并没有注意到这一点。
Recently and wandered around and noticed it becoming markedly more Qatari, send us an email and tell us where you went because we haven't noticed that actually.
事实上，卡塔尔是一个相当社会保守的国家，与特拉维夫形成鲜明对比——后者堪称变装皇后故事会的世界之都。
Qatar is in fact quite a socially conservative society in contrast to say Tel Aviv, which has gotta be the world capital for drag queen story hours.
卡塔尔则恰恰相反。
Qatar is the opposite of that.
是的。
Yes.
女性无需遮盖头部，可以独自驾车外出，你在海湾地区听说的那些限制实际上已不复存在，但在卡塔尔更是从未有过。按地区标准来看，卡塔尔其实非常开明。
Women are not covered and can drive and go out without an escort and all that stuff you hear about taking place in The Gulf doesn't actually take place in The Gulf anymore, but it definitely doesn't take place in Qatar, which by regional standards is very liberal.
但按照美国西方的标准，它实际上相当传统。
But by American Western standards is actually pretty traditional.
所以在卡塔尔没有多少骄傲游行。
So they don't have a lot of pride parades in Qatar.
确切地说，一个都没有。
Let's see none.
卡塔尔外交官派驻西方时——无论是美国、加拿大还是英国——都会让孩子上基督教学校，并非因为他们是基督徒（他们是穆斯林），而是因为这些学校在社会观念上更为保守。
Qatari diplomats ask them, ask anybody when they're posted to the West, US, Canada, Great Britain, they send their kids to Christian schools because not because they're Christian, they're Muslims, but because they're more socially conservative.
卡塔尔不像以色列那样提供政府资助的按需堕胎服务。
They don't have government subsidized abortion on demand in Qatar, as Israel does.
大体而言，他们在很多方面拥有相似的社会价值观。
They basically have, in a lot of ways, the same social values, broadly speaking, of course.
他们不是基督徒。
They're not Christian.
他们是穆斯林。
They're Muslim.
但总体而言，社会价值观与许多特朗普支持者非常相似。
But broadly speaking, very similar social values to a lot of Trump voters.
非常重视婚姻和与家人共度时光。
Big emphasis on marriage and spending time with your family.
我并不想过分吹捧。
I'm not trying to talk it up too much.
这是不同的。
It's different.
这不是我的文化。
It's not my culture.
但我想说的是，如果卡塔尔真的主导了我们的文化，那情况会完全不同。
But I guess the point is if Qatar was really in charge of our culture, it wouldn't look like this at all.
对。
Right.
嗯，这个国家即将迎来200周年诞辰，而我们的朋友黑步枪咖啡正以正确的方式庆祝——由热爱这个国家并全年践行其价值观的退伍军人们精心烘焙出浓郁咖啡。
Well, this country's 200 birthday is right around the corner, and our friends at Black Rifle Coffee are celebrating the right way with bold roasts made by veterans who love this country and live its values every day of the year.
黑步枪咖啡专为那些早起晚归的人们打造。
Black Rifle makes coffee where people get up early and work until late.
顺带一提，我们晚上也喝。
We drink it late, by the way.
夜晚饮用最佳。
Best at night.
它的味道棒极了，尤其是这个季节里他们的原子羊驼配方。
It tastes great, especially after their atomic llama formula during this time of year.
肉桂与红糖风味。
Cinnamon and brown sugar.
冬季饮用简直完美。
It's awesome for winter.
无论你是在森林里招待家人，还是为圣诞袜准备礼物，这款咖啡都代表着真实、本质且纯粹的美式精神。
Whether you're hosting family out in the woods, filling stockings for Christmas, this is the coffee that stands for something real, essential, and American.
2025年，黑步枪咖啡支持了诸如'荣誉之褶'、'红白蓝团队'等组织，以及那些为退伍军人及其家庭服务的机构。
In 2025, black rifle supported groups like Folds of Honor, team red, white, and blue, and organizations that serve veterans and their families.
而到了2026年，他们的支持力度还将更大。
And in 2026, they're going even bigger.
我们支持他们。
We support them.
我们了解他们。
We know them.
他们承受了许多不公正的批评，但他们都是真诚可靠的好人。
They've taken a lot of unfair criticism, but they are great and sincere guys.
我们可以为此作担保。
We can vouch for that.
访问 blackriflecoffee.com/tucker 了解更多。
Visit blackriflecoffee.com/tucker.
使用代码Tucker可享购买或首次咖啡俱乐部订单7折优惠，或在沃尔玛及当地杂货店选购黑步枪咖啡。
Use the code Tucker for 30% off your purchase or your first coffee club order or grab grab Black Rifle at Walmart or your local grocery store.
它无处不在，因为它太棒了。
It's everywhere because it's awesome.
黑步枪咖啡，由退伍军人创立，美国本土烘焙。
Black Rifle Coffee, veteran founded, American Roasted.
这就是美国精神。
This is America.
虽然不想自夸，但我们确信这档节目将是你见过最力挺狗狗的播客。
Hate to brag, but we're pretty confident this show is the most vehemently pro dog podcast you're ever gonna see.
对某些人我们可以将就，但对狗狗绝无妥协余地。
We can take or leave some people, but dogs are nonnegotiable.
它们是最棒的。
They are the best.
它们确实是我们最好的朋友。
They really are our best friends.
正因如此，我们非常高兴迎来新合作伙伴Dutch Pet。
And so for that reason, we're thrilled to have a new partner called Dutch Pet.
这是增长最快的宠物远程医疗服务。
It's the fastest growing pet telehealth service.
Dutch.com致力于提供您真正所需——无论何时何地都能获得经济实惠的优质兽医护理。
Dutch.com is on a mission to create what you actually need, affordable quality veterinary care anytime, no matter where you are.
他们会立即为您的爱犬或猫咪提供所需治疗。
They will get your dog or cat what you need immediately.
Dutch为我们的听众提供专属优惠。
It's offering an exclusive discount, Dutch, is for our listeners.
每年可享50美元兽医护理折扣。
You get $50 off your vet care per year.
访问dutch.com/tucker了解更多详情。
Visit dutch.com/tucker to learn more.
使用优惠码Tucker立减50美元。
Use the code Tucker for $50 off.
那是一次不限次数的兽医问诊服务。
That is an unlimited vet visit.
每年仅需82美元。
$82 a year.
每年82美元。
$82 a year.
我们实际上就在使用这项服务。
We actually use this.
Dutch的兽医能在十分钟的电话咨询中处理任何宠物在任何情况下的问题。
Dutch has vets who can handle any pet under any circumstance in a ten minute call.
说实话这真的很棒。
It's pretty amazing, actually.
你完全不用离开家门。
You never have to leave your house.
也不必把狗狗塞进车里。
You don't have to throw the dog in the truck.
无需浪费时间等待预约。
No wasted time waiting for appointments.
无需在诊所或诊疗费上浪费金钱。
No wasted money on clinics or visit fees.
无限次就诊和复诊无需额外费用，还可为最多五只宠物享受所有产品免费配送。
Unlimited visits and follow ups for no extra cost, plus free shipping on all products for up to five pets.
听起来好得难以置信，但它确实是真的。
It sounds amazing like it couldn't be real, but it actually is real.
访问dutch.com/tucker了解更多信息。
Visit dutch.com/tucker to learn more.
使用优惠码Tucker，每年可节省50美元的兽医护理费用。
Use the code Tucker for $50 off your veterinary care per year.
你的狗狗、猫咪和钱包都会感谢你。
Your dogs, your cats, and your wallet will thank you.
感恩节即将来临。
Thanksgiving is upon us.
味蕾的好消息来了。
Great news for taste buds.
坏消息是节假日期间你可能会发胖。
Bad news in you tend to get kind of fat around the holidays.
虽然我对此并不了解。
Not that I would know.
所以你会面对各式各样的美食，而且大多都诱人无比。
So you're gonna have all kinds of food right in front of you, and most of it's gonna be tempting.
你会想整天吃零食，而且很可能真的会这样。
You wanna be snacking all day long, and you probably will be.
那为何不吃些对你没那么糟糕的食物呢？
So why not eat something that's not terrible for you?
比如薯片。
A chip.
没错。
Yes.
玛莎玉米片。
Masa chips.
与普通袋装薯片不同——那些不过是化学混合物，玛莎仅用三种原料制成：有机玉米、海盐和100%草饲牛油。
Unlike your typical bag of chips, which are nothing more than chemical cocktails, masa is made with just three ingredients, organic corn, sea salt, and a 100% grass fed beef tallow.
就这些。
That's it.
没有奇怪成分。
Nothing weird.
不含种子油。
No seed oils.
没有拗口的添加剂。
Nothing you can't pronounce.
只有真材实料。
Just actual food.
你现在可能在想：这么健康的零食估计难吃得要命吧。
So you're probably thinking yourself, but a snack that healthy probably tastes like garbage.
实际上，并非如此。
Actually, no.
神奇的是，仅用三种配料，他们就让玛莎薯片变得真正美味。
Somehow, with three ingredients, they made masa chips legit delicious.
青柠口味简直绝了——我的制片人此刻就在大快朵颐。
The lime flavor, which my producer is literally eating right now, is amazing.
还有范迪脆片，这是你吃过最美味的三配料马铃薯片。
Plus there's Vandy Crisps, the most delicious three ingredient potato chips you've ever had.
无论选哪款都不会错。
You can't go wrong with either one.
想尝试玛莎或范迪薯片？使用优惠码Tucker可在masachips.com或vandychips.com首单享75折。
To give these a try, masa or Vandy, use the code Tucker for 25% off your first order at masachips.com or vandychips.com.
点击视频描述中的链接或扫描屏幕二维码即可轻松下单。
Just click the link in the video description or scan the QR code on the screen, making it easy.
若不想网购，玛莎和范迪产品在全国Sprouts超市均有售。
And if you don't feel like dealing with the online stuff, both Masa and Vandy are available nationwide at your local Sprouts supermarket.
趁它们还没卖完赶紧买一包，很快就会售罄的。
Pick up a bag before they're gone, they will be.
还有咖啡。
There's coffee.
所以他们正在投资很多企业。
So but they're investing in a lot of businesses.
卡塔尔已承诺投资5000亿美元。
Qatar has pledged $500,000,000,000 in investment.
据我所知他们目前已经投入了约1500亿美元。
I think they put about a 150,000,000,000 in so far.
我们拭目以待剩下的3500亿美元是否会兑现，但1500亿已经是个大数目了。
We'll see if they make good on the other 350,000,000,000, but 150 is a lot.
你可以说这是坏事，但除非他们在颠覆我们的价值观使其更趋同化，或者除非有骗子在破坏我们的价值观，否则请说明具体原因。
You can say that's a bad thing, but tell us how and why unless they're subverting our values to make them more cuttery or whatever, unless a quack has been subverting our values.
在可能面临经济衰退的关头，让外国资本投资本国或许并非坏事。
Probably not bad to have other people invest in your country, especially in the brink of recession maybe.
以色列在这个国家投资了多少？
How much does Israel invest in the country?
实际上，以色列在账目的另一边。
Well, actually, Israel's on the other side of the ledger.
以色列对美国来说是一个极其巨大的净成本，不仅仅是那著名的30亿美元。
Israel is a massive, massive net cost to The United States, if you're not just the famous $3,000,000,000.
虽然只有30亿美元，但支持该国参与每一场冲突的防御成本——目前已有超过六次——他们自己没有战争时，谁在为此买单？
It's only $3,000,000,000 but the cost of defending backstopping that country in every conflict in which it enters which is like at this point more than half a dozen where they not having a war Who's paying for that?
嗯，是我们。
Well, we are.
是我们。
We are.
追溯到近八十年来，每年都是如此。
Every single year going back, well, almost eighty years.
每一笔花费在代表以色列发动的战争或应以色列要求发动的战争上的数万亿美元，包括伊拉克战争、叙利亚的行动，以及他们推动美国政府针对伊朗的政权更迭战争。
Every single trillions of dollars spent prosecuting wars on Israel's behalf or wars that we waged at the behest of Israel, including the Iraq war, including whatever that was in Syria, including the regime change war they are pushing the United States government to have in Iran.
这些是成本，你可以争辩说我们需要这样做，因为这些战争让我们更安全——如果你觉得比911之前安全多了的话。
Those are costs now you could argue what we need to because those wars make us safer case you're feeling a lot safer than you did before nine eleven.
所以我想，但仅从纯美元角度来看，一个国家给美国财政部带来了巨大成本，而另一个则是净收益。
So I guess but just in pure dollar terms one country is a huge cost to the United States Treasury and the other is a net addition.
这是一个区别——你希望盟友偶尔能帮帮你。
That's one difference you you want allies to help you once in a while.
比如说你有一场战争，尤其是他们要求你卷入的战争。
So let's say you have a war, especially when they asked you to get into.
你会希望他们派出大量军队，至少象征性地派些部队。
You'd want them to send a lot of their troops or at least a symbolic number of their troops.
结果呢？实际上根本没派过军队？
How about no troops ever really?
也许我搞错了。
Maybe I got that wrong.
可能派过一两个士兵，或是顾问之类的，但基本上在这些战争中没提供过实质帮助。
Maybe a troop or two went, advisors or something, but basically no real help in any of these wars.
顺便说一句，这里并不是在攻击以色列。
Not attacking Israel here, by the way.
一如既往，他们做他们认为对自己最有利的事情，这很好。
As always, they're doing what they think is best for them, which is great.
祝你好运。
Godspeed.
但如果我们想做对我们最有利的事，总得有人解释为什么那对我们最有利。
But if we're gonna do what's best for us, someone's gonna have to explain why that's best for us.
因为这显然对我们不是最有利的。
Because it's not obviously best for us.
那么你实际上触及了价值观和道德的问题。
So then you really get to the question of values and morals.
这正是当下正在进行的讨论。
This is the conversation that's happening right now.
而现在的舆论风向是——你们之所以能进行我们现在这样的讨论，是因为卡塔尔在道德上令人反感至极，就像俄罗斯或委内瑞拉那样，甚至考虑与这种国家结盟的可能性都会让人觉得——'我们是不是该去朝鲜度假了'。
And the idea is that you're allowed to have a conversation that we're having right now because Qatar is just so morally repulsive it's like Russia or Venezuela that even to consider to talk about the thought the possibility of having alliance with such a country be like Maybe we should go to vacation in North Korea.
我是说，你真是个怪胎。
I mean, you're a freak.
你就像个法外之徒。
You're some kind of outlaw.
你怎么会想要那样？
How could you want that?
你又在为斯大林辩护了？
You defending Stalin again?
他们试图让这种可能性、这种想法变得如此荒谬且不可信，以至于没人有胆量提出。
They're trying to make the possibility, the notion so far out and discredited that no one has the brass to even bring it up.
事实上，如果你是个美国人，除了美国体系在其最佳状态外，很难为其他任何体系辩护，因为这是我们的体系。
And the truth is, it's pretty hard to defend any system other than the American system at its best if you're an American because it's our system.
我们喜欢我们的体系。
We like our system.
我喜欢我们的体系。
I like our system.
我甚至不想要像英国或加拿大那样的议会制。
I don't want even a parliamentary system like they have in The UK or Canada.
你怎么会想要那种制度？
Why would you want that?
我喜欢美国的制度。
I like the American system.
所以这不是说更喜欢别人的制度胜过我们自己的。
So it's not a matter of preferring somebody else's system over ours.
这仅仅是驳斥一些荒谬谎言的问题。
It's merely a matter of batting down some of the absurd lies.
所以卡塔尔，和该地区的每个国家一样，六个海湾君主国，传说中的海湾合作委员会，这些国家都是伊斯兰国家。
So Qatar, like every country in that region, the six Gulf Monarchies, the fabled GCC, every one of those countries is an Islamic state.
伊斯兰教是这些国家的官方宗教。
Islam is the official religion of the country.
因此在所有这些国家里，四处奔走试图让人们改信基督教可能是个坏主意，即使不违法也令人难以接受，或者两者兼而有之。
And so in all of those countries, it's probably a bad idea, illegal if not unacceptable or some variety of the two to run around trying to convert people to say Christianity.
如果你带着扩音器和写着'忏悔并皈依耶稣'的牌子出现在多哈市中心，很可能迟早会有人至少礼貌地（或许不那么礼貌）让你别这么干，因为这是个伊斯兰国家。
If you show up in Downtown Doha with a bullhorn and a sign that says repent and turn to Jesus, probably somebody at some point is gonna at least politely or maybe not tell you to knock it off because this is an Islamic country.
顺便说一句，以色列的情况也一样。
By the way, same thing is true in Israel.
这不是在攻击以色列。
Not attacking Israel.
它是个犹太国家。
It's a Jewish state.
他们不希望你跑到以色列试图让大批以色列人改信基督教。
They don't want you showing up in Israel and trying to convert a lot of Israelis to Christianity.
他们不愿意。
They don't.
这曾经是违法的。
That was illegal.
我不确定现在是否还是，但肯定不受鼓励。
I don't know if it still is or not, but it's certainly discouraged.
同样的情况也适用于卡塔尔的海湾地区。
And the same is true in The Gulf in Qatar, for example.
但如果更深层次的问题是基督徒在卡塔尔还是以色列感觉更自在，这确实很难知道人们的真实想法。
But if the deeper question is where do Christians feel more comfortable in Qatar or Israel, I mean, it's hard to know what people actually think.
所以也许最好的衡量标准是看他们选择在哪里生活。
So maybe the best way to measure that is by where they live.
数据显示，生活在卡塔尔的基督徒数量是以色列的两倍——至少是两倍。
So there are twice as many Christians living in Qatar as there are in Israel twice as many at least twice as many.
你之前知道这个数据吗？再次声明，我不是在推崇卡塔尔。
Did you know that again not promoting Qatar.
我并没有打算搬去那里。
I'm not moving there.
但那里的基督徒人口确实是以色列的两倍。
But there are twice as many Christians living there.
那么如果这是个像ISIS统治的国家，宣称信仰耶稣就会面临斩首，为什么卡塔尔的基督徒数量会是以色列的两倍呢？
So if it's like an ISIS state where people are beheaded for proclaiming the name of Jesus, why are there twice as many in Qatar as there are in Israel?
为什么卡塔尔有这么多基督教教堂，全部或至少大部分是政府批地建造的。
And why there's so many Christian churches in Qatar, all or at least most on land granted to them by the government.
重申一遍，我不是在宣传卡塔尔，只是想说，如果你告诉我这个国家的价值观与我相去甚远，甚至去那里都算某种罪行，那要么你在撒谎，要么我们的价值观天差地别。
Again, not promoting Qatar, just saying, if you're telling me that this is a country whose values are so far from mine that even to go there is a crime of some kind, you're lying or we have very different values, extremely different values.
那他们为什么要这样告诉我？
So why are they telling me that?
他们这样说是因为现状对以色列有利。
They're telling me that because the status quo works for Israel.
所以如果有其他国家可能取代它，与我们建立更强大或同等强大的联盟，如果有这种忠诚度的竞争者。
Works so if there's any other country that might displace it with whom we might form a stronger or as strong alliance if there's a rival for that loyalty.
这对他们构成巨大威胁，顺便说一句，我理解这是个深陷诸多冲突的小国，实际上除了美国外几乎没有真正盟友。
It's a massive threat to them and by the way I understand that this is a tiny country involved in a lot of conflicts that has basically no real allies other than The United States.
所以我讨厌用这个词，因为它被滥用了，但对以色列而言这关乎生死存亡。
So I hate to use the word because it's overused, but this is existential for Israel.
这对他们来说是件大事。
This is a huge deal for them.
这不仅仅是偏好问题。
It's not just a matter of preference.
这就像是生命线。
This is like a lifeline.
所以你明白了，你完全明白了。
And so you get it you absolutely get it.
但在某个时刻，我们三亿五千万人的国家利益必须在这个考量中发挥作用。
But at some point our interest the interest of the country of three fifty million do have to play a role in this calculation.
从这个标准来看，这对美国不是一笔好交易，因为在最终问题上——战争才是最关键的。
And by that measure this is not a good deal for The United States because on the final question, this is the one that matters most war.
这有着天壤之别。
There's a massive difference.
如前所述，以色列正深陷全球约六场冲突之中。
Israel as noted is involved in it with you know half a dozen conflicts around the world.
处于不同阶段。
In various stages.
而美国实际上在为所有这些冲突买单。
And The United States is effectively paying for all of them.
卡塔尔这个恐怖主义国家，全程参与并积极出资解决许多这类冲突，包括甚至不在其本地区的冲突，如东欧的乌克兰与俄罗斯冲突。
Qatar, this terror state, is full time involved in, actively involved in, paying for resolving a lot of those conflicts, including conflicts not even in its own region, like in Eastern Europe, the Ukraine Russia conflict.
你认为那些和平谈判，特别是非公开的谈判，是在哪里进行的？
Where do you think those peace talks, especially the non public negotiations, where do those take place?
多哈。
Dovah Kittar.
为什么？
Why?
因为他们愿意主办这些谈判。
Because they're willing to host them.
这就是原因。
That's why.
所以如果你有一个国家似乎每周都在轰炸某人或宣布与某人为永远的死敌，并用美国纳税人的钱去打这些仗，而另一个国家无论其动机如何（几乎不重要）都在试图解决冲突并回归商业共存——哪个才是更好的盟友？你在开玩笑吗？
And so if you have one country that's every week it seems like is bombing someone or declaring someone else a sworn enemy for eternity and using American tax dollars to fight those conflicts and then another country which whatever its motives almost doesn't matter is trying to resolve conflict and just get back to commerce coexistence which is a better ally Are you joking?
如果你看到视频这里还没关掉并嘀咕‘本·拉登同情者’，你是基地组织成员吗？
So if you've gotten to this point in the video and not turned it off muttering, Osama bin Laden sympathizer, are you Al Qaeda?
你是穆斯林吗？
Are you a Muslim?
不是。
Nope.
这些都不是。
None of those things.
那么重点来了。
Then here is the punchline.
认为卡塔尔应该是我们最伟大盟友的想法？
The idea that Qatar should be our greatest ally?
唐纳德·特朗普似乎也同意。
Donald Trump seems to agree.
什么？
What?
为什么我之前没听说过这个？
Why have I not heard that before?
因为那些对卡塔尔大呼小叫的人根本不想告诉你真相——特朗普是以和平纲领当选的，虽然落实起来比预期困难些，但这个承诺依然有效。
Because no one screaming about Qatar has any interest in telling you the truth, which is that Donald Trump who was elected on a peace program, It's been a little tougher than expected to make good on that but still means it.
特朗普在卡塔尔与以色列的争端中选边站了，实际上这已不止是争端——9月9日已升级为军事冲突。
Donald Trump has taken sides in the Qatar Israel dispute and it is actually more than a dispute became a military conflict in September on September 9.
以色列轰炸了卡塔尔，是的，轰炸了卡塔尔。
Israel bombed Qatar bomb Qatar.
顺便说，卡塔尔境内有美国在中东地区最大的——如果你怀疑他们是否算盟友的话——
Qatar by the way is the site in case you're wondering if they were an ally or not of the largest U.
空军基地，
S.
就位于多哈郊外。
Air base in the entire region right outside Doha.
约有一万名美国士兵常驻卡塔尔。
Like 10,000 ish American troops who live in Qatar.
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顺便说一句，他们为此承担了很多成本，拥有美军基地会让你成为攻击目标，这其实是件挺不错的事。
They bear a lot of costs for that by the way is pretty nice thing to do makes you a target when you have an American military base.
但他们拥有整个地区最大的基地。
But they have the largest in the whole region.
因此从定义上讲他们是亲密盟友，而以色列轰炸了他们，在多哈市中心距离埃米尔住所步行可达的地方造成人员伤亡。
So they're a by definition close alley and Israel bombs them kills people in downtown Doha like walking distance from the Amir's house.
而且对此没有道歉。
And doesn't apologize for it.
他们为什么要那样做？
And why they do that?
因为唐纳德·特朗普当时正致力于促成伊朗和以色列之间的和平，而以色列根本不愿意看到这种情况。
Because Donald Trump was working to bring peace between Iran and Israel and Israel didn't want that at all.
因此他们试图在多哈那轮和谈中谋杀哈马斯的谈判代表。
And so they tried to murder the negotiators in that round of peace talks from Hamas in Doha.
然后他们试图告诉全世界实际上是特朗普批准了这次行动，声称特朗普知情——这完全是虚假的。
And then they tried to tell the world that actually Trump signed off on this, know, that Trump knew totally false.
特朗普并不知情，他们不仅这么做了，还试图将特朗普牵连其中。
Trump did not know, not only they do this, they try to implicate Trump in it.
几周后，他通过一项行政令作出回应——我要戴上眼镜读一下这个，因为我敢打赌100个人里都没一个知道这事发生过。
And he responded a couple of weeks later with an executive order that I'm gonna throw my glasses and read this because it's I bet not one in 100 people knows this even happened.
这事发生在九月份那一年。
So this was at the September year.
听着，他签署的这项行政令原文就叫《保障卡塔尔国家安全》。
Listen this he signed an executive order and this is verbatim called the assuring the security of the state of Qatar.
所以下次你听到有人说什么‘恐怖主义国家卡塔尔’时，要是特朗普知道就好了对吧。
So next time you hear someone FOX is be like the terror state of Qatar if only Trump knew right.
《保障卡塔尔国家安全》中我们引述：多年来，美国与卡塔尔国因紧密合作、共同利益及两国武装部队间的密切关系而紧密相连。
Assuring the security of the state of Qatar and we're quoting over the years United States, the state of Qatar have been bound together by close cooperation shared interest and the close relationship between our armed forces.
卡塔尔国为美军提供驻地，支持关键安全行动，并作为坚定盟友为中东及海外地区的和平、稳定与繁荣而努力，包括作为调解方协助美国解决重大地区及全球冲突。
The state of Qatar has hosted United States forces enabled critical security operations and stood as a steadfast ally in pursuit of peace, stability and prosperity both in Middle East and abroad, including as a mediator that has assisted The United States attempts to resolve significant regional and global conflicts.
听听这个。
Listen to this.
鉴于这段历史以及卡塔尔国持续面临的外国侵略威胁
In recognition of this history and in light of the continuing threats to the state of Qatar posed by foreign aggression.
美国的政策是
It is the policy of the U.
保障卡塔尔国的安全和领土完整不受外部攻击
To guarantee the security and territorial integrity of the state of Qatar against external attack.
美国将视对卡塔尔领土主权或关键基础设施的任何武装攻击为对美国和平与安全的威胁
The United States shall regard any armed attack on the territory sovereignty or critical infrastructure, the state of Qatar as a threat to the peace and security of The United States.
最近一次针对卡塔尔的主动外国侵略行动是什么？就在同月发生了以色列的轰炸事件
Was the last active foreign aggression against Qatar what happened that exact same month it was a bombing by Israel.
以色列轰炸卡塔尔后，唐纳德·特朗普立即签署行政令表示——按这里的措辞来说——若再发生类似事件
So Israel bombs Qatar and Donald Trump issues an executive order saying if you do that again reading by the language here.
我们将对你们开战
We're going to war with you.
这里有个明显的问题，但问的人实在太少了
Well, here's a pretty obvious question that too few ask.
保护家园和家人最明智的方式是什么？
What's the smartest way to protect your home and your family?
是等到窃贼破窗而入时采取行动，还是从一开始就阻止这种企图？
Is it a, waiting until a burglar smashes a window and tries to get in, or is it b, preventing that attempt in the first place?
显然，答案是后者。
Well, obviously it's B.
第二种选择要好得多。
The second option is way better.
与大多数安防系统不同，SimpliSafe深谙此道并据此行动。
And unlike most security systems, SimpliSafe understands this and acts on that premise.
因此SimpliSafe提供的是主动防护。
So SimpliSafe provides proactive security.
它能在犯罪分子进入房屋前就将其拦截。
It stops criminals before they get inside your house.
说真的，我以为所有人都该想到这一点。
I mean, really, you would have thought everyone would have thought of that.
但只有SimpliSafe想到了这一点。
But no, SimpliSafe has though.
SimpliSafe的摄像头能及早发现威胁，并会向真人安保人员发出警报，这些专业人员会直接与入侵者对话。
SimpliSafe's cameras spot threats early and alert live agents, actual human beings who talk directly to intruders.
嘿，你被拍到了。
Hey, you're on camera.
快滚出去。
Get out.
他们要么仓皇逃窜，要么赶紧溜走。
And they either bolt, they split the scene.
当然，大多数人都会选择逃跑。
Most, of course, do.
或者警察会迅速赶到。
Or police show up fast.
没有长期合约或隐藏费用，您可以随时取消服务，完全自由。
No long term contracts or hidden fees, and you can cancel it whenever you want, anytime.
被《美国新闻与世界报道》评为最佳新型家庭安防系统
Named best new home security by U.
连续五年获此殊荣
S.
并享有60天退款保证
News and World Report for five years in a row, plus a sixty day money back guarantee.
无论谁需要安防系统，SimpliSafe都是首选
SimpliSafe is the go to for whoever needs security systems.
安装仅需几分钟，通过应用即可随时随地监控一切
Takes just minutes to set up, and the app lets you monitor everything from anywhere.
无需任何技术魔法
There's no tech wizardry needed.
本月立即行动，所有新系统享五折优惠
This month right now, get 50% off any new system.
这是SimpliSafe有史以来最优惠的价格之一
This is one of the best prices you'll ever see for SimpliSafe.
访问SimpliSafe官网：simpli,safe.com/tucker
Visit SimpliSafe, simpli,safe.com/tucker.
再次强调，网址是simplisafe.com/tucker，立即锁定您的折扣
Again, that's simplisafe.com/tucker and lock in your discount.
没有比SimpliSafe更安全的了
There's no safe like SimpliSafe.
您把最贵重的物品存放在哪里？
Where do you keep your most valuable possessions?
不是领带或袜子这些日常用品，而是那些您不愿或无法替换的物品
Not your necktie or a pair of socks, but things you wouldn't want to replace or maybe couldn't.
父母传下来的传家宝、出生证明、您的枪支、祖父留下的猎枪
Heirlooms from your parents, birth certificate, your firearms, your grandfather's shotgun.
这些物品您都存放在何处？
Where do you store those?
床底下吗？
Under the bed?
衣柜后面？
The back of a closet?
不。
No.
这不明智，可能也不安全。
That's unwise and maybe unsafe.
自由保险柜才是存放它们的地方。
Liberty Safe is the place to store them.
我清楚这一点，因为我有一个自由保险柜的殖民系列保险柜。
I would know I have a colonial safe from Liberty Safe.
它就在我的车库里。
It's in my garage.
它是最好的。
It's the best.
我把所有东西都放在里面。
I keep everything in there.
这是ProFlex系统。
It's a ProFlex system.
让你能按照自己的需求设计保险柜内部空间。
Allows you to design the inside of your safe in a way that works for you.
它不是固定配置的。
It's not a fixed setup.
如果是别人装的架子，你就得将就着用。
Someone else puts the shelves in, you have to deal with it.
你可以按自己的意愿来定制。
You make it the way you want it.
有一批步枪要存放？
Have a stock of rifles?
你可以腾出空间来。
You can make room.
需要更多空间放手枪子弹、文件、贵重物品或黄金。
Need more shells for handguns, for documents, for valuables, for gold.
你可以随心所欲地布置。
You can do whatever you want.
几分钟内就能重新配置你的保险柜。
You can refigure your safe in minutes.
最大限度的灵活性，最大限度的便利性。
Maximum flexibility, maximum convenience.
Liberty Safe是美国本土制造的顶级保险柜公司。
Liberty Safe is America's number one safe company made in The United States.
优秀的人才。
Great people.
我认识他们。
I know them.
访问 libertysafe.com。
Visit libertysafe.com.
结账时使用优惠码 Tucker 10 可享九折优惠。
Use the code Tucker 10 at checkout for 10% off.
富兰克林和殖民保险箱，配备可自定义的ProFlex内部结构。
Franklin and Colonial Safes featuring the ProFlex interior that you customize.
你会喜欢的。
You're gonna dig it.
我们确实觉得它们很好看，我得说。
We definitely plus they're good looking, I will say.
所以你可能有Verizon、AT&T或T-Mobile。
So you probably got Verizon, AT and T, T Mobile.
这意味着你绝对在为无线服务支付过高费用，我们不是随便说说。
That means you are definitely way overpaying for wireless service, and we're not just saying that.
这种情况是有原因的。
It happens for a reason.
当你加入大型手机公司时，你支付的费用要支撑他们整个运营体系，而这开销很大。
When you join a massive cell phone company, you get charged to support everything that their operation is doing, and that's a lot.
庞大的企业项目、巨大的人力资源部门、数以千计你永远不会光顾的零售店。
Big corporate programs, huge HR departments, thousands of retail stores you're never gonna visit.
你以为你的钱都用于提升手机服务和5G网络了，但其实并没有。
You think your money is going toward getting better cell service, five g service, but it's not.
所以我们使用的无线运营商PureTalk非常与众不同。
So the wireless company we use, PureTalk, is very different.
他们使用与我们刚提到的那些公司完全相同的蜂窝网络，但完全不涉及其他乱七八糟的业务。
They use exact same cell network as the companies we just mentioned, but they don't do any of the other garbage.
对你来说，这意味着每月只需25美元就能获得手机数据套餐。
And for you, that means $25 a month for your phone's data plans.
没错，每月只要25美元。
Actually, $25 a month.
你会感到惊喜的。
You'll be amazed.
立即转用PureTalk吧。
Switch to PureTalk.
操作超级简单。
It's super easy.
访问puretalk.com/tucker，首月可再享5折优惠。
Visit puretalk.com/tucker, and you save an additional 50% off your first month.
Puretalk.com/tucker。
Puretalk.com/tucker.
整个过程只需几分钟。
It literally takes minutes.
这是美国的无线运营商。
It's America's wireless company.
唐纳德·特朗普站在卡塔尔这边而非以色列，并警告以色列——虽然难以相信他真会这么做，但行政令中确实写明——若再发生类似情况。
Donald Trump took the side of Qatar over and above Israel and told Israel, and who knows if he'd actually do it, hard to believe, but it's in the executive order, If you do this again.
这等于是对我们的攻击，那可是一份安全保证。
That's tantamount to an attack on us that's a security guarantee.
简直难以置信。
That's unbelievable.
请记住这点，因为很多特朗普的支持者都是非常善良真诚的人。
So keep that in mind because an awful lot of Trump voters really nice sincere people.
那些仍对911事件耿耿于怀的人。
Who are still upset about nineeleven.
他们口中仍残留着那股怨气。
The residue was still in their mouth.
是那个地区的人对我们下的手。
That part of the world did it to us.
是伊斯兰对我们下的手。
Islam did it to us.
任何想翻译成中文的人可能都是支持基地组织的。
And anyone who wants to have a normal relationship with an Islamic country is probably pro Al Qaeda.
明白了吗。
Get it.
我懂了。
I get it.
我理解那种感受，也曾是其中一员。
I know those feelings had them.
但看看唐纳德·特朗普，你们投票选出的这个人，现在却站在卡塔尔一边对抗以色列。知道为什么吗？因为唐纳德·特朗普是个秘密的伊斯兰主义者。
But here's Donald Trump, the guy that you voted for taking Qatar's side against Israel and why is that because Donald Trump is a secret Islamist know.
卡塔尔对美国来说要好得多。
Qatar is a lot better for The United States.
无论从哪个指标衡量，都比以色列好得多。如果你不同意，那就告诉我——
Then Israel has been a lot better by any measure and if you disagree what what tell me a way.
以色列在哪方面比卡塔尔对美国更有利？
In which Israel has been better for The United States than Qatar.
你可能会说，那耶路撒冷呢？
You could say, well, what about Jerusalem?
这个观点非常到位。
And that's an excellent point.
世界上没有哪座城市比耶路撒冷更重要、更美丽，更能激荡心灵能量。
There's no city in the world more important or more beautiful, more humming with spiritual energy than Jerusalem.
但耶路撒冷在以色列建国前就已存在，而且——愿上帝保佑——它将永远存在。
But Jerusalem existed before the state of Israel existed, and it will, God willing, be there forever.
所以这是截然不同的事。
So that's a distinct thing.
对吧？
Right?
那是一处历史与精神的圣地。
That's a historical and spiritual site.
与以色列政府毫无关系。
There's nothing to do with the government of Israel.
但请告诉我以色列政府在哪方面比卡塔尔政府对我们更有利。
But tell me how the government of Israel has been better for us than the government of Qatar.
当然你举不出来。
And of course you can't.
所以你有两个选择。
So you've got two options.
第一，你可以冲人吼叫，骂他们是伊斯兰主义者，说你不是真正的基督徒，肯定在崇拜真主之类的话。
A, you can scream at people and call them Islamists and say you're not really Christian, you must be worshiping Allah or something.
你要是去多哈，就是个自杀式炸弹袭击者。
You're a suicide bomber if you go to Doha.
这让很多人吓得要死，他们会觉得，这不值得，算了，别出声。
And that intimidates the crap out of a lot of people and they're like, it's not worth it, never mind, don't be quiet.
但久而久之这招就不管用了。
But over time that doesn't work.
或者，你可以彻底抛开政治、治国方略和国家利益。
Or, you can drop politics and statecraft and national interest.
你可以完全改变对话的基调。
You can just change the terms completely of the conversation.
你可以停止谈论什么对国家最有利，因为如果辩论的基调是这样，新保守主义者永远赢不了。
You can stop talking about what's best for your country because neocons are never gonna win if those are the terms of the debate.
什么对我们国家最有利？
What's best for our country?
他们连参赛资格都没有。
They're not even contestants in that.
他们当然对国家利益毫无兴趣。
They've no interest in what's best for our country of course.
但你可以将话题转向神学。
But you can change the conversation to theology.
你可以直截了当地说。
And you can just say it point blank.
上帝要求你们支持本杰明·内塔尼亚胡政府。
God demands that you support the government of Benjamin Netanyahu.
现在谁会粗俗、愚蠢又鲁莽到说出这种话？
Now who would be vulgar and dumb and reckless enough to say something like that?
谁会真的搬出上帝来为与外国结盟辩护？
Who would actually invoke God Himself to justify a political alliance with a foreign country?
老兄，说这种话的人肯定完全不担心死后报应，因为这实在太肆无忌惮了。
Man, you'd have to be someone who's not worried at all about the afterlife to say something like that because that is a reckless thing to say.
如果你已经猜到是泰德·克鲁兹，那你完全正确。
If you've already guessed Ted Cruz, you're absolutely right.
看好了。
Watch.
我要告诉你，在基督徒中，尤其是年轻基督徒中，正兴起一场运动。
I will tell you, there is a movement among Christians, particularly young Christians.
公开民调显示，年轻基督徒对以色列的支持率正在暴跌，他们正被谎言所包围。
The public polling numbers of support for Israel among young Christians is plummeting, and they're being spread lies.
他们被灌输孤立主义的谎言，说我们应该退出世界舞台因为没人想伤害我们，同时他们还被灌输神学谎言。
They're being spread lies, isolationist lies, that we should withdraw from the world because nobody wants to hurt us, but they're also being spread theological lies.
他们被教导替代神学——这种谎言声称上帝对以色列和以色列民的应许已不再有效，当上帝做出承诺时，祂并非真意如此。
They are being taught replacement theology, which is a lie that the promises God made to Israel and the people of Israel are somehow no longer good, they are no longer valid, that when God made a promise, he didn't mean the promise he made.
这种论点认为基督教会已取代以色列和犹太人，犹太人不再是上帝的选民，整本圣经中的所有应许都成了空文。
And instead, it is an argument that the Christian church has replaced Israel and the Jews, and the Jews are no longer God's chosen people, and all of the promises throughout the Bible are now a dead letter.
教会需要行动起来，申明圣经对以色列的立场并非沉默，圣经对以色列的立场是清晰明确的，我们教会将挺身而战。
The church need to engage and say the bible is not silent on Israel, the bible is crystal clear on Israel, and in the church we will stand and fight.
天啊。
Man.
要知道，在韦科扶轮社为德克萨斯相关议题激动是一回事，但眼前这个人深究的可是生死真理这些根本问题，却对自己谈论的内容一无所知。
You know, it's one thing to get all worked up at the Waco Rotary Club about issues related to Texas, but, you know, here you have a guy who's deep into the things that actually matter, the questions of what happens after we die and what's true, and he's no idea what he's talking about.
字面意义上的毫无头绪——我不是猜测，也不是攻击他的信仰。我记忆犹新，因为就在今年夏天我问过同一个人（泰德·克鲁兹）：'具体来说，圣经哪处经文要求基督徒必须支持以色列？'
Literally no clue, I'm not guessing, I'm not attacking the man's faith, I'm just remembering very vividly because it was this summer when I asked that same guy, Ted Cruz, Okay, where specifically does the Bible tell Christians that they have to support Israel?
而他根本答不上来。
And he had no idea.
他本想错误引用《创世纪》里的一句话，却连经卷名都说不出。
He meant to misquote a phrase in Genesis, but he couldn't even name the book.
顺便说，大多数人也做不到——况且那段经文根本就不是那个意思。
And by the way, most people couldn't, and it doesn't even mean that.
但无论如何，既然要建立相关神学观点，难道不该先知道经文出处吗？
But whatever, if you're gonna have a theology about it, shouldn't you know where it is in the Bible?
难道不该倒背如流吗？
Shouldn't you be fluent in it?
不，因为这一切都是假的。
No, because it's all fake.
这毫无意义。
It doesn't mean anything.
但他还是这么说了，这个话题之所以重要，是因为它不仅关乎国家的命运，更关乎人类的命运。
But he says it anyway, and this topic actually matters because it deals not simply with the fate of nations but the fate of humans.
这是真实的。
It's real.
所以像那样说‘圣经对以色列的立场非常明确’。
So to talk like that, the Bible is crystal clear on Israel.
好吧。
Okay.
圣经中定义的以色列是什么？
What is Israel as defined by the Bible?
我也问了他这个问题。
I asked him that question too.
这个词是什么意思？
What what does the word mean?
它指的是什么？
What does it refer to?
是的，先生。
Yes, sir.
圣经中多次提到以色列，以及上帝对他子民——以色列人、犹太人的爱，这是肯定的。
A lot of references to Israel and to god's love for his people, the Israelites, the Jews, for sure.
但在2025年，这具体对应着什么？
But in 2025, what exactly does that correspond to?
以色列。
Israel.
好的。
Okay.
他一直看着我。
And he kept looking at me.
以色列，就是以色列。
Israel, it's it's Israel.
哈克比说的是什么，以色列。
What's Huckabee says, Israel.
I S R U L。
I S R U L.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Got it.
你能给我解释一下吗？
Can you define that for me?
是指现代世俗的以色列民族国家吗？
Is it the modern secular nation state of Israel?
是特拉维夫举办变装皇后故事会的那个以色列吗？
The drag drag queen story hour in Tel Aviv state of Israel?
那...具体是什么边界？
And and what borders?
这包括约旦河西岸、犹地亚和苏美尔地区吗？
Does that include the West Bank, Judea, and Sumeria?
这包括加沙地带吗？
Does that include Gaza?
这范围一直延伸到伊拉克吗？
Does that go all the way to Iraq?
我是说，我们到底在讨论什么范围？
I mean, like, what are we talking about here?
闭嘴。
Shut up.
《圣经》里写得明明白白。
The Bible's crystal clear.
当然，实际上并非如此。
Well, it's of course, it's not.
但《新约》有一点是极其明确的——因为它在每卷书每页上都写着，通往上帝的道路是通过耶稣。
But one thing the New Testament is crystal clear about because it's in every book on every page, is that the way to God is through Jesus.
据我所见，这没有任何附加条件。
And there aren't any caveats that I've seen.
我不是神学学生。
I'm no theology student.
我不是泰德·克鲁兹。
I'm no Ted Cruz.
但每一页都在阐述同一个观点。
But in every page, it's the same point.
通往上帝的道路是通过耶稣。
The way to God is through Jesus.
顺便说一句，说这些话的是犹太人，就像早期基督徒那样，他们是在对自己的犹太同胞说话。
And by the way, these are Jews speaking as the early Christians were, and they were speaking to Jews, to their fellow Jews.
他们说：通往上帝的道路就是忏悔现在的行为，转信耶稣。
And they were saying the way to God, repent of what you're doing now and turn to Jesus.
这就是他们当时传达的信息。
That's what they were saying.
也许泰德·克鲁兹对此有另一番解读。
Maybe Ted Cruz has another analysis of it.
但整部《新约》都在探讨这一个问题。
But there's an entire New Testament about this one question.
顺便说一句，如果这是错的，请解释错在何处。
And by the way, if that's wrong, explain how.
但他们当然永远不会这么做。
But of course they never will.
他们永远不会解释，因为他们根本不在乎。
They never will explain how because they don't care.
顺便提一下，美国有些福音派基督徒对这个问题已形成完整的神学体系。
By the way, there are evangelical Christians in The United States who have a fully developed theology on this question.
我不理解这种观点，即便理解了也不同意。
I don't understand it, and to the extent I do, I don't agree with it.
但我并不憎恨他们。
But I don't hate them.
我知道我曾那么说过一次。
I know that I said I did once.
我当时只是很沮丧，我很抱歉，他们中大多数人其实都是很好的人。
I was just frustrated and I'm sorry, and most of them are really nice people.
但我认为任何阅读《新约》传统解读的人都会得出结论：从《马太福音》到《启示录》，贯穿始终的核心——实际上是唯一不变的诫命——就是信仰耶稣。
But I think any person reading a conventional interpretation of the New Testament would conclude the central, really the only, unchanging command throughout the entire thing from Matthew to Revelation is believe in Jesus.
每个人。
Everybody.
每个人。
Everybody.
根本没有描述任何特殊待遇。
There are no special deals described at all.
所有人都要信仰耶稣，这是通往上帝之路，而不信者将无法获得永生。
Everybody believes in Jesus and that's how you get to God and people who Aren't gonna live forever.
我看不出还有其他途径。
And I don't see another way.
但像泰德·克鲁兹这样的人当然对神学辩论毫无兴趣，他甚至不知道相关典籍出自哪本书。
But people like Ted Cruz, of course, are not interested in debating theology and he didn't even know a book it was in.
他们只想扼杀任何关于美国利益的讨论，将其转化为神学话题。
They're interested in shutting down any conversation on what's in America's interest, making it a theological conversation.
他们为何对此如此热衷？
And why are they interested in doing that?
因为支持以色列凌驾于其他所有国家之上的最后理由已经不复存在。
Because the last justification for supporting Israel above all other countries has evaporated.
这个理由是什么？
And what is that?
就是声称以色列是一个道德上独一无二的国家。
It's the claim that Israel is a uniquely moral nation.
这也是基督教和旧约犹太教经常被引用的原因。
And that's why Christianity and also Old Testament Judaism is so often invoked.
圣书之民，上帝子民——这一点无人能否认。
People of the book, people of God, no one would contest that.
但这与本杰明·内塔尼亚胡在2025年的所作所为有何关联？
But what does that have to do with what Benjamin Netanyahu is doing in 2025?
当然，这完全与之无关。
Of course, that's nothing to do with it at all.
这个季节本应赠礼给你所爱之人，而最珍贵的礼物莫过于第一份礼物——生命的馈赠。
Was the season to give gifts to those you love and there's no greater gift than the first gift, the gift of life.
随着堕胎黑帮变本加厉，现在比任何时候都更需要为孩子们挺身而出进行反击，毕竟孩子才是一切的核心。
With the abortion mafia doubling down, there's never been a more important time to fight back against them and for children, which is really all that matters, children.
我们的合作伙伴'生命至上'组织正是最佳选择。
Our friends at Preborn are the ones to go to.
他们是我们信赖的伙伴。
They're the ones we trust.
我们与'生命至上'建立了合作关系，这项合作既守护生命的喜悦，又援助意外怀孕却决定生下孩子的困境母亲。
We've got a partnership with Preborn and that partnership helps preserve the joy of life and supports mothers in need, mothers who didn't expect to be pregnant, but who have decided to have that baby.
每天，'生命至上'的诊所都能拯救数百名儿童，因为当母亲通过超声波看到自己的宝宝时，她选择留下孩子的几率会翻倍。
Every day, preborn's clinics rescue hundreds of children because when a mother sees her baby on an ultrasound, the chance that she will choose life doubles.
这是真实的统计数据，完全合乎情理。
That's a real statistic, it makes complete sense.
她明白这是一个生命。
She understands this is a person.
这就是未来。
This is the future.
今年圣诞节，本节目听众的捐赠将被双倍匹配。
This Christmas, gifts from this show's listeners will be doubled.
这意味着将进行双倍的超声波检查、拯救双倍数量的婴儿、为双倍数量的母亲提供长达两年的护理、让双倍数量的人——美国人——来到这个世界。
That means twice as many ultrasounds, twice as many babies saved, twice as many mothers receiving care for up to two years, twice as many people entering this world, Americans.
我们了解Preborn组织的人，他们得到了我们毫无保留的认可。
We know the people at Preborn, they have our total endorsement.
慈善界存在许多欺诈行为。
There are lot of frauds in the charity world.
他们绝非欺诈。
Are not frauds.
他们绝对真实可靠。
They're totally real.
他们的工作有助于治愈这个国家。
Their work help heals this country.
超声波检查仅需28美元，所有捐款均可抵税。
When an ultrasound is just 28, all gifts are tax deductible.
拨打#250，说出关键词'宝宝'。
Dial pound two fifty, say the keyword baby.
#250宝宝 或访问preborn.com/tucker。
Pound two fifty baby or visit preborn.com/tucker.
preborn.com/tucker。
Preborn.com/tucker.
Beam黑色星期五促销已对本节目听众开放提前抢购。
Beam's Black Friday sale is open for early access for anyone who listens to this show.
这是他们全年最优惠的48小时活动。
It's their best offer for the year forty eight hours.
活动仅限这段时间。
That's all it lasts.
本节目听众可享高达5折优惠。
Listeners to this show can get up to 50% off.
使用优惠码Tucker。
Use the code Tucker.
这意味着您每晚只需1美元就能获得Beam梦幻粉。
That means you get Beam's dream powder for just $1 per night.
每晚1美元，享受前所未有的优质睡眠。
Dollar per night for the best sleep you ever had.
访问shopbeam.com/tucker。
Visit shopbeam.com/tucker.
使用优惠码Tucker。
Use the code Tucker.
这是有史以来的最低售价。
This is the lowest price ever been sold anywhere.
很快就会售罄。
It's gonna sell out quick.
Dream配方富含人体所需成分，如镁元素和褪黑素等天然原料，但采用智能剂量控制，不像劣质产品那样让人昏睡且次日宿醉感强烈。这款产品有效且无宿醉困扰。
Dream is packed with ingredients your body needs, natural ingredients like magnesium, even melatonin, but dosed intelligently, not like the crap you buy that knocks you out and leaves you feeling hungover the next This works, and there's no hangover.
访问shopbeam.com/tucker。
Visit shopbeam.com/tucker.
使用优惠码Tucker。
Use the code Tucker.
黑色星期五促销期间可享高达5折优惠。
Get up to 50% off during the Black Friday sale.
但有个条件。
Here's the catch.
仅在售完前有效。
It's available only until it sells out.
请访问shopbeam.com/tucker。
Shopbeam.com/tucker.
优惠码Tucker。
Code Tucker.
强烈推荐。
Highly recommended.
以色列独特的正直品格，正是他们成为我们唯一真正盟友的原因。
Unique decency of Israel is the reason they are our only real ally.
问题在于，过去两年在加沙发生的一切不仅证明这种说法不成立，反而几乎与事实截然相反。
And the problem is that what's happened in Gaza over the last two years has shown that not only is that not true, it's very close to the opposite of the truth.
我们许多人长期以来都竭力忽视加沙的局势，理由是那某种程度上并非我们的斗争。
Now, a lot of us have spent a lot of time doing our best to ignore what's happening in Gaza on the grounds that kind of not our fight.
没错，那里有武器。
Yes, there are weapons.
是的，这一切都是我们在买单。
Yes, we're paying for all of it.
是的，我们还在联合国为他们提供庇护。
Yes, we're giving them cover at the United Nations.
是的，他们某种程度上是在以我们的名义行事。
Yes, they're really kind of doing this in our name.
BB满世界跑着说，特朗普被我捏在手里。
BB is running around the world saying, I've got Trump in my pocket.
我想干什么就干什么。
I can do whatever I want.
特朗普会护着我。
Trump will defend me.
他对很多人都这么说过。
He's told a lot of people that.
我掌控着美国国会，我掌控着白宫，我掌控着美国。
I control the United States Congress, I control the White House, I control The US.
他在录音里就是这么说的。
He's said that on tape.
如果你还没听过，去查查吧。
If you haven't seen it, look it up.
但我们很多人觉得，算了，麻烦已经够多了，不想再掺和进去。
But a lot of us thought, look, got enough problems, don't want to get into it.
但如果你真的去了解10月7日以来加沙发生的事，那简直触目惊心。
But if you ever do look into what's happened in Gaza since October 7, it's shocking.
当然这不是地球上唯一的暴行。
Now it's not the only atrocity on the planet.
以色列政府不是唯一恶劣的政府，糟糕的政府多的是。
The Israeli government is not the only bad government, Tons of bad governments.
2006年我报道过利比里亚内战。
I covered the Liberian Civil War in o six.
世界上糟糕的政府比比皆是。
There are a lot of bad governments.
明白吗？
Okay?
但在所谓的文明政府中，几十年来——至少八十年——没有哪个像以色列政府在加沙这样行事。
But among so called civilized governments, no one has behaved like the Israeli government has behaved in Gaza in a very long time, eighty years at least.
这简直令人难以置信。
It's almost unbelievable.
一个拥有世界上最精确军事技术的国家杀害了成千上万的儿童。
Tens of thousands of children killed by a country with the most precise military technology in the world.
这个国家不知怎么把爆炸传呼机放进了黎巴嫩真主党领导人的口袋里。
A country that somehow got explosive pagers into the pockets of Hezbollah leaders in Lebanon.
这些人再次以他们的技术和精准闻名于世。
These are people who are again world renowned famous for their skill and their precision.
看看十二日战争期间对德黑兰的轰炸行动。
Look at the bombing attack during the twelve day war on Tehran.
那是精准的。
It was precise.
他们没有摧毁德黑兰市中心。
They didn't take out downtown Tehran.
行动消灭了伊斯兰革命卫队领导人，精确击毙了特定地点的特定人员。
It took out IRGC leaders, it took out specific people in exactly where they were.
所以他们声称杀害了这么多人
So the idea that they've killed.
数万名妇女儿童非战斗人员是意外伤亡，这是个谎言
Tens of thousands of women and children noncombatants accidentally is a lie.
不，他们是蓄意谋杀
No, they murdered them.
他们就是蓄意谋杀
They murdered them.
这就是事实
It's just a fact.
你可以用任何词汇来形容
You can call it whatever you want.
种族灭绝
Genocide.
所有人都在说，这就是种族灭绝
Everyone's like, It's genocide.
好的。
Okay.
你怎么称呼它并不重要。
It doesn't matter what you call it.
那就是谋杀。
That's murder.
你们是在故意杀人。
You're killing people on purpose.
哦，但这在世界上总是发生。
Oh, but that always happens in the world.
确实如此。
Certainly does.
战争中无辜者会死去，这完全正确。
Innocence die in war that is absolutely right.
但在我有生之年的现代冲突中，从未有这么多无辜者丧生。
But in no modern conflict in my lifetime have this many innocence died.
毫无歉意可言。
Without any apology at all.
那么，你希望美国政府或在我一生中大部分时间里与其他政府——比如以色列政府——有何不同之处？当我们杀害无辜之人，比如儿童时，我们会忏悔。
So what sets, you hope, the United States government or has during most of my life apart from other governments, governments like the government of Israel, when we kill people who didn't do anything wrong, like children, we are penitent.
我们会道歉。
We apologize.
有时我们会将肇事者绳之以法，比如在越南的美莱村事件中，因为我们不会杀害无辜之人。
Sometimes we put the people who did it, as in My Lai, for example, in Vietnam, on trial because we don't kill people who didn't do anything wrong.
就是这样。
Period.
然而两年多来，以色列蓄意谋杀了数万名儿童。
And yet for over two years Israel has murdered ten's of thousands of children.
故意为之。
On purpose.
然后封锁加沙地带的大门，射杀数十名记者以阻止外界拍摄真相，彻底夷平该地区以便驱逐居民并占领土地。
And then a lock the doors of Gaza shot dozens and dozens and dozens of journalists so no one can film what's happening and just level the place so they can move the people out and take it.
这有什么正当理由？有什么借口？
What's the justification for that what's the excuse.
当然，根本不存在任何理由。
Well, of course, there isn't one.
再次强调，以色列并非历史上唯一如此行事的国家，远非如此。
Again, Israel's not the only country that's behaved that way in history, far from it.
但在我有生之年，没有现代国家曾这样做过。
But no modern country has behaved that way in my lifetime.
于是前几天我们第一次决定去亲眼看看这场景。
And so the other day we thought for the first time we would go see what this looks like.
或许这就是他们憎恨卡塔尔的原因之一——卡塔尔政府已接收了约2000名来自加沙的难民。
And so there is, maybe it's one of reasons they hate Qatar, the government of Qatar has taken in about 2,000 refugees from Gaza.
实际上他们无法接收更多，因为以色列不允许这些人离开。
They actually can't get anymore because Israel won't let them out.
但在加沙轰炸行动初期，曾有一段时期有些人确实逃了出来。
But there was a period at the beginning of the bombing campaign in Gaza where some people did get out.
卡塔尔政府表示，好吧，我们会接收这些来自加沙的巴勒斯坦人，并为他们治疗伤势，尤其是儿童。
And the government of Qatar said, okay, we'll take them, these Palestinians from Gaza, and we will treat their injuries, especially the children.
我们会接收这些孩子。
We'll take the kids.
所以他们住在多哈的一个院子里，我们在处理其他事务的间隙去那里看了看。
So they live in a compound in Doha, and we went over there just to see it in between other things that we were doing.
人们正在交谈、采访，我们觉得应该去看看。
People were talking to, people were interviewing, and just thought we should go see that.
所以我们没有带常规的摄像机。
So we didn't bring, like, a regular camera.
我们的摄像师凯尔非常有才华，他用的是iPhone。
Our cameraman Kyle, who's really talented, had his iPhone.
我们不想把摄像机怼到人们脸上，利用他人的痛苦来证明什么。
We didn't wanna, you know, stick a camera in people's faces and, like, exploit the suffering of others to make a point.
我们甚至没打算把这段内容播出。
We were not even planning on putting this on the air.
但这场景令人极为痛心。
But it was so distressing.
看到这些孩子——许多成为孤儿、没有任何家人、手足尽丧——实在令人震惊。
It was so shocking to see children, many of them orphaned without any family at all, their siblings have been killed.
他们的父母要么遇害，要么被困在加沙，以色列不允许他们离开。
No parents have been killed or their parents are stuck in Gaza and Israel won't let them out.
缺肢少腿的孩子们，许多面部严重毁容，一个孩子面容残缺。
Kids with no limbs, many with mangled faces, a child with a mangled face.
但我们一行共有四人。
That but there are four of us.
明白吗？
Okay?
包括我相识一生的商业伙伴，以及合作多年的两位制片人。
Me and my business partner who I've known my whole life and two producers who've we've worked with for many, many years.
这些人都是身经百战的老手，经历过其他战争，见过无数伤员，很难被轻易震撼。
And these are guys who've really been around like everywhere and seen other wars and seen a lot of injuries and, you know, kinda hard to rattle.
当我们离开那里时，只是四个中年男人盯着森林，强忍着不哭出来。
And by the time we get out of there, it was just four middle aged men staring at the forest trying not to cry.
这是当时的部分场景。
Here's part of what it looked like.
我们省略了很多可怕的细节。
There's an awful lot we left out of there.
你知道，我们不想再次利用他人的苦难。
You know, you don't again wanna exploit the suffering of others.
我甚至觉得拍摄任何画面都有点奇怪。
I felt a little bit weird even filming anything.
但最终我们决定这很重要，因为，这到底是怎么回事？
But in the end, we decided it was important because, like, what the hell?
这到底是怎么回事？
Like, what the hell?
所有这些失去四肢的孩子，那个小女孩看起来就像我的教女，你知道，一只手没有手指，另一只手也没有手指？
All these kids with their limbs blown off, this little girl looked just like my goddaughter, you know, with no fingers, one hand and no fingers?
她是哈马斯的成员吗？
Like is she in Hamas?
这样的案例有成千上万。
There are tens of thousands of those.
再说，战争中所谓的附带伤害，你懂的。
And again, look, there's so called collateral damage in war, guess.
看看加沙的照片，那不是附带伤害，他们把那里夷为平地就是为了占领它。
Look at the pictures of Gaza, it's not collateral damage, they flattened the place so they could take it.
现在他们正试图迫使人们逃往其他国家，包括我们美国，不仅让我们为战争买单，还要接收所有幸存者？
And now they're trying to force the people into other countries including ours, including The United States, not only do we have to pay for the war but also take in all the survivors?
我们为什么要插手这件事？
Why do we have anything to do with this?
但最让我震惊的是，似乎没人在意这件事。
But what's most shocking to me is that no one seems bothered by it.
那些支持以色列的人似乎对此毫不在意，这才是真正的威胁。
None of the people who support Israel seem bothered by it at all, and that's the real threat.
不仅仅是罪行本身，还有那些因美国军火而面目全非的孩子们——这一切究竟为了什么？
It's not just the crime, children whose faces are mangled by US munitions because why?
真正的罪行在于这场暴行的支持者为其辩护的方式。
The real crime is the way that the supporters of this atrocity are justifying it.
不仅是对全世界，更是对他们自己。
Not simply to the world but to themselves.
他们公然辩解说：'加沙地带所有人都是哈马斯'。
They're justifying it by saying out loud, Well they're all Hamas because they're all in Gaza.
还说：'没错他们是孩子，但若让他们长大也会变成哈马斯'。
And yeah, they're kids but if we let them grow up they become Hamas too.
他们描述的是血罪概念，以及这种信仰自然衍生的集体惩罚与奖赏体系。
What they're describing is the concept of blood guilt and the collective punishment and reward that naturally flows from that belief.
这种信仰认为上帝只偏爱某些人而非所有人。
And the belief is God favors some but not others.
而这正是西方文明的敌人。
And that is the enemy of Western civilization.
这与基督徒的信仰背道而驰。
That is the opposite of what Christians believe.
基督徒相信每个人都是上帝创造的独立个体。
Christians believe that every person was created as an individual by God.
这就是为什么反犹主义是错误的。
That's why anti Semitism is wrong.
这就是为什么加沙政策是错误的。
That's why Gaza is wrong.
每个人都是作为独立个体被创造，并应当作为个体接受评判。
Every person is created as an individual and must be judged as an individual.
我们不喜欢你的行为，但不能因此炸断你女儿的手指——这是不被允许的。
We don't like what you do we can't blow the fingers off your daughter that's not allowed.
但他们认为这是被允许的。
But they think it is allowed.
他们正在为此欢呼，而在美国，我们纵容了这种态度——这种态度正是平权法案、多元化倡议等背后的逻辑：人们应该因出身而受罚，或因出身而获赏。
They're celebrating it and in The United States we're allowing that attitude which is the attitude behind affirmative action D I all of this that people should be punished on the basis of how they were born or rewarded on the basis of how they were born.
我们正在颂扬这些态度。
We are celebrating those attitudes.
在加沙问题上，这一点从未如此清晰。
And never more clear than in the case of Gaza.
国会有一位新议员，来自佛罗里达州的兰迪·法恩，他是个狂热的犹太复国主义者。
So there's a member of Congress, a new member of Congress called Randy Fine from Florida, who is a passionate Zionist Fine.
但兰迪·法恩发了一条推文，我想把它放在屏幕上，这条推文我一直难以释怀。
But Randy Fine sent out a tweet that I wanna put on the screen that I've kind of never gotten over.
有人给兰迪·法恩发了一张加沙废墟中婴儿的照片，并问，你怎么能心安理得？
Somebody tweeted Randy Fine a picture of a child, a baby in the rubble in Gaza and said, how can you live with yourself?
你怎么睡得着？
How do you sleep?
实际上睡得相当好，谢谢关心！这是一位现任共和党国会议员。
Quite well actually thanks for the pick exclamation point this is a sitting Republican member of Congress.
我对此无所谓，谢谢关心！而你看到的是一具孩子的尸体。
That's fine with me thanks for the pick exclamation as you're looking at a dead child.
当这件事曝光时。
When that came out.
我打电话给众议院议长。
I call the speaker of the House.
迈克·约翰逊，看看这就是共和党的所作所为，你们怎么能允许这种事发生。
Mike Johnson see what this is the Republican part how can you allow this.
你们怎么能允许一位国会议员。
How can you allow a member of Congress.
作为共和党人，你是他的监督者，你是议长，你负责管理所有众议院共和党人。
A Republican you're his overseer, you're the speaker you're in charge of all the House Republicans.
这就是共和党。
This is the Republican Party.
我们竟然对一张死婴照片发笑，因为兰迪·法恩认为那个孩子流淌着不洁之血，或者她不是人类，她是亚玛力人还是什么？
We laugh at a picture of a dead baby because Randy fine thinks that child is infected with unholy blood or she's not human, she's Amalek or something?
我们到底在干什么？
What are we doing?
这太疯狂了。
This is insane.
支持以色列，很好。
Support Israel, great.
如果你们对着死婴照片发笑，还说什么我们被命令支持以色列。
If you're laughing at pictures of dead babies, oh, we're commanded to support Israel.
如果支持以色列意味着这样，那我们很多人都会退出。
If this is what it means to support Israel, a lot of us are out.
如果美国要与以色列保持密切关系，让他们成为我们的重要盟友，甚至是朋友，告诉我这样有什么好处。
If The United States is going to have a close relationship with Israel, if they're going to be our close star, our important ally, even our friend, Tell me why that's good.
别冲我吼叫，无论如何都不要为杀害儿童的行为庆祝，因为这表明你是我和我的国家所珍视的一切的敌人——而最重要的是我们不能杀害无辜的人。
Stop yelling at me and whatever you do do not celebrate the murder of children because that reveals you as the enemy of everything that's important to me and my country And the main thing that's important is that we do not kill people who are innocent.
不仅因为这是可悲的，更因为这是对我们整个文明的冒犯，我们的文明基于一个理念。
Not simply because it's sad, but because it's an offense against our entire civilization, which is based on one idea.
我们将作为个体而非群体、社区或部落接受审判。
We will be judged as individuals not groups not communities or tribes as people.
因为上帝创造了我们每一个人，这就是西方文明的根基，而兰迪·法恩却不相信这一点。
Because God created every one of us that is Western civilization and Randy fine doesn't believe it.
我们怎能允许这种事发生？
How can we allow this?
或许我们对兰迪·法恩有失公允。
So maybe we're being unfair to Randy Fine.
可怜的皮尔斯·摩根最近可能没少挨骂——虽然多半是他活该——但至少他还在努力与人沟通，如果我们能做到的话。
So poor Piers Morgan, who's taken a lot of probably well deserved crap recently, but at least makes an effort to talk to people if we can.
立刻给兰迪·法恩打电话。
Immediately call Randy Fine.
他称我是美国历史上最恶劣的反犹分子。
He called me a worst anti Semite in American history.
没错。
Right.
我可不是那种根据出身来憎恨他人的人。
I'm not the one who hates people based on how they were born.
你才是。
You are.
但皮尔斯·摩根不知怎么说服兰迪克·法恩接受了采访，直接问他：你相信这个吗？
But Piers Morgan somehow wrangled Randy Fine into an interview and just asked him point blank, do you believe this?
而他确实相信。
And he does.
看吧。
Watch.
兰迪·法恩，当你说'我他妈才不在乎加沙人'时，你为这句话感到自豪吗？
Randy Fine, when you said I don't give a shit about Gazans, were you proud of that statement?
嗯，我认为当时的背景是加沙在10月7日袭击了以色列。
Well, I think the context there is Gaza attacked Israel on October 7.
那些越过边境企图杀死所有能杀到的男女老少的数千人中，很多人——数千人——并不是所谓的哈马斯正式成员。
Of the thousands of people who streamed across the border to kill every man, woman, and child that they could, many of them, thousands of them were not, quote, unquote, card carrying members of Hamas.
所以当你发动战争却又节节败退时，若你不喜欢战争带来的后果，那就应该投降认输。
And so when you start a war and you are losing the war, if you do not like what that is doing to you, then you surrender in that war.
加沙选择成为敌人。
Gaza chose to be the enemy.
加沙选择攻击西方文明。
Gaza chose to attack Western civilization.
而且，是的，我不在乎发生了什么。
And, no, I didn't care what happened.
实际上我没有任何猜测。
I've not had actually any guess.
我必须在此诚实地说。
I have to be honest here.
我还没有遇到过任何使用'加沙人'而非'哈马斯'的嘉宾，考虑到正是哈马斯在10月7日实施了那场骇人听闻的恐怖袭击。
I've not had any guest who has used the phrase Gazans rather than Hamas, given it was specifically Hamas that perpetrated the appalling terror attacks on October 7.
目前在加沙掌握政府权力的仍是哈马斯。
It is Hamas that has the governmental power still in Gaza.
并不是加沙人民。
It's not the it's not the Gazan people.
不是这里。
It's not the Here.
平民百姓。
Civilian population.
那么，你为何刻意将加沙民众与哈马斯混为一谈？
Well, why are you deliberately conflating Gazans in totality with Hamas?
试图区分两者，暗示只有少数加沙人支持或喜欢哈马斯，这与数据不符，我们不应允许这种将二者完全割裂的说法。
To try to differentiate the two attempts to imply that some small percentage of Gazans support or like Hamas, that is not what the data suggests, and we should not allow us to be say these two are completely different.
甚至不知从何说起，但我们已经表明了立场。
It's hard even to know where to begin, but we made the point.
你们不能实施群体惩罚、集体惩罚。
You cannot practice group punishment, collective punishment.
我们不相信血统罪责。
We do not believe in blood guilt.
兰迪·法恩才是敌人。
Randy Fine is the enemy.
西方文明的敌人。
The enemy of Western civilization.
那种思维方式。
That way of thinking.
顺便问一句，这种思路会导致什么后果？
And by the way, where does that line of thinking lead?
它会导向纳粹，以及其他许多类似的历史案例。
Well, it leads to the Nazis among other places, among many other examples.
当然，我对这个犹太人生气，所以我就要围捕所有犹太人。
Of course, I'm mad at this Jew, therefore I'm gonna round up all Jews.
这就是这种思维的必然结果。
That's where that leads.
它会导致种族灭绝，在加沙地带已经确切地发生了。
It leads to genocide and it's led to exactly that in Gaza.
我们必须直言不讳地指出这一点。
And we have to just say that out loud.
大声说出这些不仅不是反犹主义，反而是对抗反犹主义的预防措施和防御手段。
Not only is it not anti Semitic to say that out loud, is the prophylactic against, the defense against anti Semitism.
当你拒绝承认时，当你连连说不时。
When you say no, no, no.
并非所有人都要为他们同名、同语言、同地域、同宗教或同基因者的行为负责，绝不是这样。
Not all people are responsible for the actions of people who share their name or language or physical location or religion or genetics, like no.
每个人都只对自己的决定和行为负责。
Every person is responsible for his own decisions and actions.
我们不会因厌恶某人就去杀害他们的孩子。
We do not murder the children of people we don't like.
当我们因杀害厌恶之人的孩子而被揭露时，我们应当羞愧低头、痛哭忏悔、乞求宽恕。
And when we're caught murdering the children of people we don't like, we hang our head in shame and we weep and we apologize and we ask for forgiveness.
而不是上皮尔斯·摩根的节目大肆炫耀。
Do not go on Piers Morgan and brag about it.
更不该在罪行败露后，将任何谴责我们的人污蔑为仇恨者——当我们正在为杀害儿童的行为辩护时。
Do not attack anybody who calls us out on it as a hater when we've been caught justifying murdering children.
我们不会那样行事，如果继续如此，局势将迅速崩溃。
We do not behave that way and if we continue to behave that way things will fall apart really really fast.
但不幸的是，我们正在这样做，而任何指出这一点的人都被视为比施暴者更恶劣。
But unfortunately are behaving this way and anyone who calls it out is treated as worse than the perpetrator of it.
这就是种族灭绝——不，说出真相的你反而成了罪犯。
Well that's genocide, no you're the criminal for saying that really.
你希望生活在一个奖善惩恶的社会。
You want to live in a society that rewards the virtuous and punishes the criminals.
你绝不希望生活在相反的社会，而我们正飞速滑向那种境地。
You do not want to live in the opposite and that's exactly where we're going really fast.
因此大声说出真相至关重要。
So it's important to just say it out loud.
下一位嘉宾对这一原则有着深刻体会。
Our next guest has had a lot of experience with this exact principle.
弗朗西斯卡·奥尔巴尼是美国驻巴勒斯坦领土特别报告员，即该地区的国际监督者。
Francesca Albany is The US special rapporteur to the Palestinian Territories, which means she's an international overseer in those territories.
这当然包括约旦河西岸和加沙地带。
That would include, of course, the West Bank and Gaza.
不久前，她指出以色列在加沙的行为是不可辩解的。
And not long ago, she pointed out that what Israel is doing in Gaza is indefensible.
你可以称之为种族灭绝，可以称之为大规模屠杀，也可以称之为对无辜者的杀戮。
You can call it genocide, can call it mass murder, you call it the murder of innocence.
名称根本不重要。
It doesn't even matter what the name is.
那些没有做错任何事的人正被以色列政府用美国纳税人的钱杀害。
People who did nothing wrong are being killed by the Israeli government using American tax dollars.
这是事实。
That's a fact.
我们曾见过其中一些人。
We met some of them.
接下来她遭遇了什么？
And what happened to her next?
这充分说明了我们与最亲密盟友的关系现状，希望弗朗西斯卡·阿尔巴尼兹现在能加入我们。
Well, that tells you everything about where we are in a relationship with our closest ally, Francesca Albanyz, I hope joins us now.
弗朗西斯卡，非常感谢你能来。
Francesca, thank you so much for coming on.
我会退后一步，让你来说。
And I m gonna stand back and let you talk.
请你先描述一下你对加沙局势的看法，然后告诉我们你在美国发表这些言论后发生了什么。
If you would just describe what you said about what s happening in Gaza and then tell us what happened to you in The United States after you said it.
当然。
Absolutely.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢你邀请我，塔克。
Thank you, Tucker, for having me.
自2022年起，我一直担任联合国（而非美国）的特别报告员。
I've been a special rapporteur for the United Nations, not The US, since 2022.
在这一职位上，联合国要求我记录并报告以色列作为占领方在巴勒斯坦被占领土（包括加沙地带、约旦河西岸和东耶路撒冷）实施的侵权行为。
And in this role, I'm asked by the United Nations to document and report on the violations committed by Israel as the occupying power in the occupied Palestinian territory of which Gaza is a part, but it is also the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
在10月7日事件过去一年半后，以色列发动了残酷袭击——这是十七年来对加沙地带的第五次攻击。
And after one year and a half, after October 7, Israel started a brutal attack which was the fifth in seventeen years against the Gaza Strip.
五个月后，我在题为《种族灭绝剖析》的报告中提出，我们目睹的情况可能构成种族灭绝。
And five months later I suggested that what we are seeing could constitute genocide in a report that had the title Anatomy of a Genocide.
又过了六个月，我正式确认这是种族灭绝行为，属于对巴勒斯坦人民实施殖民性抹除的一部分。
After another six months I said, I do confirm that this is genocide and it's part of a colonial erasure of the Palestinian people.
以色列正在实施种族灭绝，其目的是要抹去巴勒斯坦人在被占领巴勒斯坦领土上的存在。
Israel is committing genocide because it aims to erase Palestinians presence, Palestinian presence from the occupied Palestinian territory.
这是一条漫长的轨迹，最终将我们带到了今天这一步。
And it's a long trajectory that has led us to here.
随后，我在另外两份报告中审视了私营部门的共谋行为，包括众多企业。
Then I looked at the, in the other two reports, I looked at the complicity of the private sector, including many businesses.
许多企业在欧洲，其他则在所谓的全球南方，还有不少位于美国——这种共谋关系数十年来维持着占领区的经济运转，有人从中获利并助长了以色列的有罪不罚现象，甚至在这种经济转向种族灭绝时依然如此。
Many are in Europe, others are in the so called global South, many are in The United States and the complicity that has sustained the economy of the occupation for decades and there are people who have profited from these and Israel's impunity, including as this economy turned genocidal.
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