20VC: AppLovin's Co-Founder & CEO, Adam Foroughi on How AppLovin Might Be The Venture Capital Industry's Biggest Miss, How To Run a 1,000+ Organisation with Very Few Meetings & Balancing the Demands of Wall St with Long Term, Sustainable Growth

找那些认同我的愿景和执行能力的投资者合作，别被短期利益带偏了，去琢磨未来三个月该怎么做——说实话，谁在乎呢？

Try to partner with investors who believe in my vision and my capacity to execute, and don't get misguided and try to optimize where you're be in the next three months because frankly, who cares?

我在乎的是三年后我会在哪儿。

I care about where I'm gonna be in the next three years.

华尔街在乎。

Wall St cares.

那你怎么平衡华尔街按季度施加的压力，和你真正长远的规划呢？

So how do you balance between the demands of Wall St on a quarter by quarter basis with, quite rightly, your long term planning mind?

对。

Yeah.

这正是关键所在。

That's the key point.

我就是不在乎。

I just don't care.

我在乎的是打造一家大企业，尽全力把它做到最大，这意味着我会长期为投资者争取最高回报，但绝不会为了下个月的业绩去刻意优化。

I care about building a big business, and I'm gonna build the biggest business possible, which means I care about making investors the highest return possible over time, but I don't care about optimizing anyone's returns over the next month.

布兰克在这一点上真是个很好的顾问。

And that this is where Burbank was a really good adviser in this.

约翰告诉我，我问他一个问题：为什么公司都会陷入季度指引这个模式？

John told me, and I asked him this question is, why do companies go fall into this quarterly guidance model?

因为大家都这么干，就这么回事。

And that is just what everyone knows.

每个季度都公布数据，再更新下一季度的指引。

Like, every quarter report numbers and update guidance for the next quarter.

你大概都知道下个季度会是什么情况，这么操作合情合理。

Well, you mostly know where you're gonna be in the next quarter, so it makes logical sense.

但这样一来，你的思维就陷入了一个不停奔跑的 treadmill，只盯着未来三个月。

But then mentally, you're creating this treadmill where you're focused on the three months out.

你总是盯着眼前的事。

You're always focused on the now.

我不盯眼前的事。

I'm not focused on the now.

现在的情况已经定了。

The now is already defined.

我们接下来要做的事，都是两三年前我做决定时就定好的。

We're gonna do what we're gonna do because of decisions I made two, three years ago.

我更关注的是两三年后的事，现在我所有努力都是朝着那个方向走。

I'm much more focused on the two, three years out, and that's what I'm working toward now.

他了解我的做事方式，所以他就说：你按自己的方式来就行。

And he knows how I operate, so he's just like, do your own way.

别管那些套路，只要大家看到你在为未来最大的目标打基础，就会愿意支持你。

Don't worry about the patterns because once people see that you're building for the biggest thing possible in the future, they're gonna bet on you.

这给了我很大的信心，也让我能顺利应对这次转变，不至于压力太大，因为我必须有自由去做我认定的事。

And so that was a really good confidence booster, and then it helped me go navigate this change without making it too burdensome of a change because I need the freedom to do what I know.

你刚才几次提到了‘执行’这个词。

You said the word that execute a few times.

我特别感兴趣。

I'm really intrigued.

说到执行的时候，你是怎么考虑分派任务的？今天哪些事交给别人，哪些还得自己抓着？

When you think about execution, how do you think through delegation, What you delegate today versus what still needs to remain under your control?

你之前提到，一年里有八个月是负责产品工作的。

You said about being head of product for eight months of the year.

你是怎么判断哪些该放手，哪些该自己亲自负责的？

How do you think about what to delegate versus what to own?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你看。

I mean, look.

我当然希望能把所有事都交出去，但实际做起来挺难的。

Like, I'd love to delegate it all, but it gets hard.

我也很想把所有事都揽在自己手里。

And love to take control of it all.

我早期就是这样做的，结果发现根本撑不住。

And I did early on, and that gets hard.

你手头要做的事太多了，根本忙不过来。

You just have more to do than you can handle.

所以我发现，对我有效的方法，可能跟别人不一样，每个组织、业务单元或团队的负责人情况也都不同。

And so what I found is what works for me is probably different than other folks, and it's different for every single leader of an organization or of a business unit or team.

对我来说，关键是找一些我真正信得过、值得信赖的人，好好带他们，让他们在某个领域超越我。

And it's like, for me, I wanna surround myself with people I really believe in and trust and really mentor them to become better than me, a slice of something.

因为如果你分散精力去管太多事情，从理论上讲，你肯定不如那些专注做一件事的人做得好。

Because if you spread over multiple ideas, concepts, you're not gonna be as good in theory as someone who's focused on just one specific thing.

所以关键就在于，这个人到底是谁？

And so the key there is who is that someone?

因为我总是不自觉地觉得，我自己做肯定比交给别人强。

Because I always found myself naturally believing that I'm gonna be better than delegating to anyone else.

所以干脆就不委托了。

Therefore, don't delegate.

还是自己来扛吧。

Just take the ownership myself.

如果我觉得放手会带来损失，那就真的很难放弃。

And if I feel like there's a loss there, it's hard to give it up.

但这种方式没法持续扩大。

But that doesn't scale.

当然，这些年我们确实做到了规模化发展。

And, obviously, we've been able to scale over years.

所以为了走到今天，我得对自己说：好吧。

So in order to get to this point, I had say, okay.

到底是什么让我愿意把事情交出去？

What's gonna make me hand it off?

让我愿意交出去的原因，是我在别人身上看到了和我相似的思维方式，那时候我会想：我要培养这个人，让他成为我可以信赖、可以塑造、可以指导的人，最终成为我心中真正优秀的人。

And what makes me hand it off is when I see a similar mindset to me in someone, and I go, I wanna get that person to be someone I can trust, someone I can grow, develop, mentor, to make just, in my mind, defined as great.

等到那一刻，我就会完全信任他。

And then I'll trust them wholeheartedly.

从那以后，我再也不去过问他具体在做什么。

And then at that moment, I don't pay attention to anything they're doing.

我交出去之后，就完全属于他们了，然后我就去忙下一个，这就是我能不断扩大的方式。

I hand it off, it's theirs, and I move on to the next, and that's how I've been able to scale it up.

我很喜欢这一点，也特别欣赏这种信任。

I love it, and I love that trust.

我也是从一开始就完全信任对方。

I have the same, like, starting with full trust.

如果事情没起色，你会给他们多长时间？

When it's not working, how long do you give someone?

有时候，真的需要一点时间才能上手。

Because sometimes it can just take a while to ramp.

有时候，他们就是能力不够。

Sometimes they're just not good enough.

遇到明显有问题的人，你会给他们多长时间？

How long do you give candidates where there's a red flag?

这其实没有固定标准，但我对那些我最看重的人反而最严格，因为我希望逼他们尽快成长，尽快学会。

It's sort of like it's very there's no formula, but I'll say I'm very aggressive and hard with the people I respect the most because I really wanna put pressure on them to develop them and teach them the fastest.

我对一个人越尊重、越安静，就越不敢把事情交给他。

Respectful and quiet I am towards someone, the less I believe that I can hand something off to them.

所有跟我并肩作战的人，都知道在那一刻，我是真心押注在他们身上的。

Anyone who's in the line of fire with me knows that they're in that moment, there's someone I'm betting on.

这关系挺特别的，因为当你被对方的语气、强势和严厉对待时，心里会特别难受，但后来你才明白——

And it's a weird dynamic because you feel terrible on the other side of attitude, the aggression, the harshness of someone who's just trying to plow through something, and then they realize, wait.

他其实是在花时间陪我。

He's spending that time with me.

他是特意下来教我的。

He's actually coming down to teach me.

久而久之，我们之间就建立起非常紧密的关系。

And then it develops a very close relationship over time.

所以最终会走向两个极端：要么我们深度合作，你完全卷入其中，火气十足；要么你就变得客客气气、沉默寡言，然后就结束了。

And so it evolves to that core where either we're gonna be working really closely together and you're really in the weeds and you're hot, or it goes the other way where you get very polite and quiet and then it's done.

在那一刻，我就知道，这个人我没法完全信任起来。

Like, at that moment, know, like, I'm not gonna be able to get this person to a point of full trust.

所以我得继续往前走了。

Therefore, I gotta move on.

明白了。

Okay.

所以当你失去信任时，就得另作打算。

So when you lose a sense of trust, you've gotta move on.

信任还能重新建立起来吗？

Can trust be regained almost?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得用‘信任’这个词不太准确，因为没人真的做过背叛信任的事。

I'd call it more I guess trust is a tough word because no one does anything to violate trust.

关键在于你是否相信他们能真正理解你所处的那片小天地。

It's belief in their capacity to become you at that sliver of the world.

作为管理者，你只能判断一个人有没有这个潜力，有没有可能达到那个层次。

And I think you just, as someone who's running an organization, you either believe someone has it or they're not gonna get to that level.

这并不意味着他们在其他一百件事上也不会成功。

It doesn't mean that they're not gonna succeed at a 100 other things.

他们很可能都会成功。

They probably are.

但你再也看不到那种灵感和热情了。

But you don't see that same inspiration, that same passion.

要判断这一点需要时间，说实话，我这一生挺幸运的，我觉得任何取得成功的人，都很幸运能有机会和这么多人共事。

And it takes a while to assess it because, frankly, like, I'm very fortunate in my life, and I think anyone who's had success is very fortunate to get the chance to work with a lot of other people.

我小时候并不是最聪明的孩子。

I wasn't the smartest kid growing up.

现在我跟这些人一起工作。

And now I work with people.

我会看他们的简历。

I look at their resumes.

然后我就想，天哪。

I'm like, damn.

他们刚进来的时候，聪明程度远超当年的我，但光聪明可造就不了这种成功。

They're way smarter than I ever was coming in, but that's not what creates that success.

真正成就这种成功的，是一种热情，一种想要超越身边所有人、去破解别人解不开的脑力难题的渴望。

What creates that success is a passion and a desire to outwork everyone around you and understand and solve puzzles mentally that other people can't solve.

所以，智商最高并不是关键。

So it doesn't take the highest IQ to do it.

真正需要的是别的东西，而发现这种东西，得花时间。

It takes something else, and assessing that takes time.

一旦我看到了，也相信了，这才算是下注的时候。

And so once I see that and I believe in it, that's when the bet's made.

光靠面试、看履历，甚至一起工作几个月，都很难达到这个判断标准。

And it's hard to get to that point just through an interview, through looking at someone's background, even through a couple months of working together.

这真的需要时间。

It takes time.

说到策略性解决问题，你曾经把并购这件事发挥到极致，也真正掌握了，这领域特别有意思。

Speaking of kind of strategic puzzle solving, an area that's fascinating that you used to the extreme and also mastered, I think, is acquisitions.

你是什么时候意识到该收购游戏公司了？当时的收购倍数是多少？

When did you realize you should be buying gaming companies, and what were the multiples like?

你刚开始的时候，市场环境怎么样？

What was the environment like when you started?

现在肯定完全不一样了。

Very different today, I'm sure.

是的。

Yeah.

我们是2018年开始的，关键决定就是去拿数据。

So we started in 2018, and really it was that decision to go get data.

而游戏行业当时是获取数据最便宜的途径，原因有两个。

And gaming actually was the cheapest path to it for two reasons.

第一，那时候市场还没热起来。

One, the market wasn't hot yet.

现在可就过热了。

It's now overheated.

但那时候，早期的估值倍数其实很低。

But back then, multiples were pretty low early on.

我觉得当时游戏行业的整合还没开始，投资者也没意识到，游戏的核心其实是在移动端、持续运营、分章节更新，玩家会玩很多年。

I guess the consolidation movement in gaming hadn't started yet, and people didn't yet understand in the investor community that games are really in mobile, live operated, episodic, and people will play these games for many years to come.

因为这些模式还没被投资者认可，所以估值倍数就比较低。

So because it hadn't been proven to investors yet, multiples were lower.

但更重要的是，我们想和那些我们愿意合作的人一起干，因为我根本不想去管游戏开发者。

But more importantly, we wanted to partner with people we like working with because I wasn't gonna go manage game developers.

我对游戏一窍不通。

I don't know anything about games.

我甚至都不怎么玩游戏。

I don't even play games, really.

我们做这个游戏投资，主要是为了获取数据。

And we needed it as a means to go get data.

而游戏开发者呢，他们只想做出一款被很多人喜欢的好产品。

And game developers, on the other hand, wanna create something great that's used by a lot of people.

所以，把这两点结合起来，我们就形成了一套非常成功的模式：不需要微观管理，也不需要深度整合，我们只专注推动增长。

So if we combine these two parts, we really created a great equation for success by not requiring micromanagement, not requiring integration, but we just take care of growth.

我们关心的是用户数量和数据积累。

We care about more users and data.

他们只想做出优质的内容。

They wanna build great content.

他们也在意用户增长。

They care about more users.

对我们来说，当时没明说但至关重要的一点，是找到真正愿意合作的公司，因为彼此之间有信任。

And the only piece that was really unstated there for us was finding companies that we really wanted to partner with because there was just this trust.

这种合作关系，是我希望慢慢建立起来的。

That relationship was something that I wanted to build up.

我们只是想和那些合得来的人一起做事。

These were just people we wanted to work with.

所以我们的合作从来不是简单的交易关系。

And so our deals were not transactional in nature.

我们没走那种投行主导的流程。

We didn't go to banker run processes.

我们没参与那种只盯着钱、拼竞价的短暂竞争。

We didn't go bid into competitive moments in time where you're just thinking about dollars.

我们更看重的是关系。

We're thinking about the relationships.

我们的很多合作，说实话几乎每一个，都源于客户关系，因为我们早就认识那些高管。

So a lot of our partnerships, I'd say probably pretty much every single one, were from client relationships where we knew the executives.

他们个人都认识我。

They personally knew me.

彼此之间早就有信任的基础，就一句话：

There was already that foundation of trust, and it was just say, hey.

咱们一起干吧。

Let's work together.

入门的门槛是多少？

What's the price of entry?

咱们先把这事办了，接下来一起干点大事。

Let's get it done, and now let's go build something great.

收购最大的难题，从来都是整合。

The biggest challenge with acquisitions is always integration.

你提到整合不到位的问题。

You mentioned that the lack of integration.

能具体说说吗？

Talk me through that.

那你是怎么跟他们说的？

How did you sell it to them then?

比如，你们继续掌控所有创意流程。

Like, hey, you retain all creative processes.

你们继续负责游戏开发的全过程。

You retain all game making processes.

我们只负责数据分发和增长。

We're just here for data distribution and growth.

那看起来像什么？

Does that look like?

他们当时是把数据交给我们，而我们的角色是推动增长。

Well, they were giving us the data, but we were there for growth.

我觉得当时就是按你说的那样去说服他们的。

I think it was sold exactly as you said.

我们没法去管理他们，因为我们不是游戏开发者。

We're not gonna be able to manage them because we're not game developers.

我们是做软件的。

We're software folks.

所以我们公司的核心基因本来就不是创意型的。

And so the core DNA at our company is just not creative.

而一家优秀的游戏开发工作室，其核心基因天生就是创意导向的。

And the core DNA of a strong game development studio is inherently creative.

因此，如果他们需要那种整合，这根本行不通，因为我们提供不了。

And so it was just a nonstarter if they needed that integration because we couldn't offer it.

我们当时没有专门的资源来做这件事。

We didn't have central resources for it.

也没有统一的基础设施。

We didn't have central infrastructure.

事实上，我们到现在一样都没有。

In fact, we don't have any of it.

今天依然没有。

We still don't today.

所以这从一开始就是个明确的决定。

So it really was an upfront thing.

他们肯定会做自己热爱的事，而我们也不会去整合他们。

Like, there was no doubt they were gonna do what they love, and we weren't gonna integrate them.

我觉得正因如此，彼此的信任才格外重要。

And I think that's why it was necessary that that trust exists.

因为这么做风险实在太大了。

Because you can only do that it's a huge risk.

如果你收购一家公司，然后说‘你们就继续做你们原来的事’，那他们就会自己做预算。

If you buy a company and you say, just keep doing what you're doing, well, they're budgeting themselves.

他们会按照自己的方式做事。

They're doing things as they do.

他们会维持自己的企业文化。

They run their own culture.

除了用户数据和财务方面由我们掌控，其他一切都还是他们说了算。

Everything remains their own except there is this ownership over data users and the financial aspect of it.

除此之外，整个业务完全由他们自主运营。

Other than that, the business is run as their own.

你得相信他们能做好，而且能达到你期望的标准，他们的价值观也要和母公司一致。

You have to trust that they can do it and do it at the standard that you like to operate and that the cultural beliefs align with what you believe as a parent holdings company.

所以这一切又回到了一点：我们只愿意和真正合得来、值得信赖的人合作，因为这必不可少，对方也得是靠谱的人。

And so this all came back to, again, working with people that we really enjoy working with and trust because you have to have that, and they have to be good people on the other side.

否则，整个体系就会彻底崩塌。

Otherwise, that equation just completely deflates and falls on itself.

我完全同意你关于这种内在信任和合作关系的看法。

I totally agree with you in terms of that inherent trust and partnership.

我遇到的挑战是，那是2018年，环境已经不一样了。

The challenge I have is that was 2018, different environment.

现在市场这么热，资金这么充裕，你们该怎么收购？又该看重哪些方面？

How do you acquire today given the frothiness of the market, and what do you look for given just how much cash there is?

是的。

Yeah.

说实话，我们现在已经不太活跃了。

I mean, frankly, like, we don't we're not that active anymore.

我们有三千名游戏开发者在为我们做游戏。

And we've got 3,000 game developers that are building games for us.

全球差不多有二十个工作室在跟我们合作。

We got almost 20 studios around the world.

当初我们战略性地选择与那些我们熟悉、信任、愿意长期合作的伙伴联手，覆盖移动游戏的各个品类，因为我们需要数据，而我们确实把这事办成了。

It was strategic for us to go get partner with folks we knew, trusted, and wanted to partner with for the long term across every genre of mobile gaming because we needed the data, but we executed on that.

但对我们来说，这种战略只持续到某个阶段，因为之后我们就不想再继续深耕游戏领域了。

And so it was only strategic for us up until a point because we didn't wanna go continue to build into gaming after that point.

我们觉得任务完成了，该收手了。

We wanted to go, say, job's done.

现在该去搭建围绕它的整个体系了，因为这能支撑我们想做的所有事情。

Now let's go build out the stack around it because it enables everything we wanna do.

大概一年前，我们的业务已经把游戏规模做起来了，数据也拿到了，但还没把它们用在广告平台上。

And that happened somewhere around a year ago, where in our business, we scaled the games, we got the data, we weren't yet using it in our advertising platform.

真正启动是在去年第四季度，从那以后增长明显加速了——我们的愿景是用数据来打造广告内容，让它对用户更相关。

And that's what launched really in q four last year and has accelerated growth a lot, is that vision of utilizing our data to create content out of advertising, make it much more relevant to the consumer.

其实，去年第四季度我们才真正把这事落地了。

Really, we executed on in q four last year.

我们更新了软件平台，随后业务规模迅速扩大。

We rolled out an update to the software platform and then grew a ton.

所以去年我们的软件收入达到了两亿，增长势头一目了然。

And that's why last year we did 200,000,000 of software revenue and you can just see acceleration.

上个季度，我们的软件收入超过了1.9亿美元。

This last quarter, we did over 190,000,000 in software revenue.

相当于去年一整年的收入，都集中在了这一个季度，这都得益于三年前我就定下的那个愿景。

So almost the entirety of last year in one single quarter because of execution on a vision I had three years ago.

现在，我们的游戏已经达到了临界规模。

So now the games are at a point of critical mass.

我们需要的数据都已经拿到了。

We've got data we need.

算法也已经搭建好了，现在我们正围绕这个软件平台继续扩展，不断提升产品对市场的吸引力。

We've got the algorithms built, and then we're now building into that software stack to continue to expand it to improve the offering for the market.

干得漂亮，朋友。

I mean, well done, my friend.

这真让人振奋。

That is exciting.

这些数字太惊人了。

Incredible numbers there.

我想问问，回顾你做的那些收购，有没有哪次没按计划进行？

Can I ask when you look at the acquisitions you made, has there any been any that didn't go to plan?

如果没按计划走，你从中学到了什么经验？

And what were the lessons that you took from that process of it not going to plan?

在多项目投资策略里，总有成功和失败的。

Now you always have winners and losers in a multi investment strategy.

有意思的是，我们从没把它当成一笔交易，甚至没把它看作是投资，或者只是和对方合作的入场费。

You know, what's interesting because we didn't look at it as a transaction or even frankly as an investment or just a price of entry to work with someone.

这几乎就像你招聘顶尖人才的成功率一样。

It's almost like our success rate has been the equivalent of your success rate hiring great talent.

比如你雇一个经理或者高级经理，如果你很在行，大概七成概率是对的。

Like, if you hire a manager or senior manager, you're probably gonna be right 70% of the time if you're really good.

过去我在这方面，成功率就跟抛硬币差不多。

For me, it's been a coin flip in my past.

当你投资工作室时，本来可能就只能指望这个概率，但我们因为了解他们的过往，把成功率提升了。

And when you're investing in studios and it's predicated on that, you're sort of starting at that, but we were able to improve on that because of an understanding of their past.

我们之前就有合作关系。

We had relationship.

大部分时候，他们本来就已有客户基础。

There are already clients for the most part.

所以，这个基础比抛硬币靠谱多了。

So there was a foundation that was stronger than a coin flip.

我觉得我们遇到困难的，反而是那些规模较小的团队，因为他们确实需要更多支持。

Now the ones that we've, I think, struggled with are the smaller ones because they do need more help.

他们经验不够丰富，而我们又缺乏足够的体系和资源去帮他们。

They're not as seasoned, and we just don't have the infrastructure and resources.

传统游戏公司早就建好了全套的技术支持和资源体系，能大力推动合作伙伴成长。

And those are ones where the traditional gaming companies have built so much central technology and resources to go really help facilitate growth for.

所以现在回头看，我们能合作的对象， realistically，只能是那些能自己搞定一切的团队，这一点是我们刚开始时完全没意识到的。

That as we think about, like, who can we work with, realistically, it's the ones that can do it all themselves are the only ones that fit our model, and that was something that we didn't understand when we first started doing it.

这些经验，我们是慢慢才明白的。

So we've learned that over time.

这确实是一个很有意思的领悟。

I mean, it's a fascinating learning to come to.

我得提一下Acton和Leo，我之前跟他们聊过，这件事得归功于他们。

I mean, one that I do have to touch on, and I have to give credit to Acton and Leo because I obviously spoke to them before this.

他们跟我说，你一定要问他关于Mopub的事，那可是被十亿美元收购的。

And they said, you've got to ask him about Mopub, acquired for a billion dollars.

当时是怎么考虑的？整个过程又是怎么进行的？

What was the reasoning behind this, and how did the process go down?

是的。

Yeah.

三年前我们刚进入游戏行业的时候，在广告和移动领域，一切其实都从中介平台开始，因为这些发布商得同时对接多个平台。

I mean, so three years ago when we got into games, so in advertising and mobile, it all starts with the mediation solution because these publishers have to work with multiple platforms.

像Facebook、Google、AppLovin或者Unity这样的单一公司，远不如市场平台更能有效变现他们的用户。

One single company like a Facebook, a Google, an AppLovin, or Unity can't monetize their audience as well as the marketplace can.

所以传统上需要一种叫中介的工具，作为底层支撑，来打通对市场的接入。

And so there has to be a tool traditionally called mediation that becomes that plumbing that enables the access to the market.

当我们进入游戏领域时，其实有个选择。

And when we got into games, we had an option.

要么用市场上现成的工具，主要是 MoPub、Google 和 IronSource，要么自己从头开发，因为我们觉得现有的方案还不够好。

Either use the tools available to us, and the main ones in the market, MoPub, Google, and IronSource, or go build it ourselves because we felt like something was lacking.

所以我们最终收购了一家叫 Mac 的公司，把他们的技术拿过来自己打磨，心想：我们能做出比市面上更好的东西。

And so we ended up acquihiring a company called Mac, built up that technology ourselves, and said, we can improve what's out there.

我们真的做到了。

And we did it.

把这套系统上线到市场中。

We put it in the marketplace.

效果非常出色，我们的游戏收益明显提升了。

Performance was really exceptional, and our games were benefiting.

那时候我们面临一个战略性的决定。

And we had a strategic decision to make at that moment.

要么把技术留在内部，那我们本质上就只是个游戏公司——只为自己游戏提供支持，不对外开放；要么把它推向市场，商业化，让整个行业受益。

Keep it internal, which would, by definition, make us a games company because we would be empowering our own games with our own software, but not putting it out to the market or put it out to the market, commercialize it for the benefit of the whole.

我们就这么做了。

And we did just that.

我们把Max推向了市场。

We put Max out there.

我们在applovin.com/blog上发布了一篇博客。

We put up a blog on applovin.com/blog.

这是最新的文章，展示了Max的成长和普及速度，简直飞速上升。

This is the latest write up, and it shows the growth of Max and Max adoption, and it's been astronomical.

它从市场上抢走了大量份额，成为增长最快、规模最大的广告中介解决方案。

It's taken tons of share from the marketplace, become the fastest growing and biggest mediation solution out there.

所以当MoPa推出时，我们和Twitter一致认为，比起对方不投入的平台，我们能用这个平台为合作伙伴和整个市场创造更多价值。

So when MoPa became available, it really was Twitter and us deciding that we could do more with that platform for those partners or the market than they could on a product that they're not investing in.

归根结底，是我们决定，这才是对市场最有利的选择。

So it really was us deciding, look, this is what's best for the market.

那么，现在的问题是，进入这个市场的门槛是多少？

Now, again, what's the price of entry?

其实，我们做这些事的方式，和之前打造其他合作项目、推向市场的方法一模一样。

And that a lot of that stuff is the same way we built all of our other deals and brought them to market.

靠的是信任和过往的合作关系，双方都真心想做对的事、公平的事。

It was built on trust and past relationship and both parties trying to do what's right and fair.

我们都清楚，既然我们已经掌握了平台，凭借工程团队的实力，能快速整合产品，为市场带来一个远超以往的解决方案——无论是Max、MoPub，还是未来可能出现的任何发布商，都能因此受益，整个市场也会被做大。

And both of us acknowledging that under our control, because we have the platform already and we can unify the product set really quickly with our engineering expertise, we can deliver something to the market, Max, MoPub, or any publisher out there that gets created in the future that's so much better than that's existed that will increase the space.

如果我们能做好这件事，对Twitter、对我们、对生态里的每一位参与者、对所有发布商都有好处。这正是我们双方都认同的方向，也是我们走到今天的原因。

And if we can do that well, it benefits Twitter, it benefits us, it benefits player in the ecosystem and all the publishers, and that's what we both bought into, and that's how we landed where we are.

资产交接和迁移的过程顺利吗？

Was it a challenging handover of assets, of transition, of migration?

这个过程有难度吗？

Was that a challenge?

是的，挺有挑战的。

Yeah.

但我们还没完全到位。

We're not there yet.

所以我们谈过，希望明年年初就能完成交易。

So we talked about closing it next year, hopefully early next year.

实际上，我们现在正在全力升级我们的Mac解决方案，确保功能上完全跟MoPa产品对齐。

And the reality is we are doing a bunch of work to upgrade our Mac solution to be feature parity with the MoPa product set.

等到时机成熟，迁移就会无缝完成，整个市场都能从中受益。

So at the right time, migration is seamless, and everyone in the market gets a benefit.

现在，Mac的发布商已经能用上MoPa的功能，同时也能保留Mac原有的功能。

Mac publishers are now getting MoPa features and Macs features.

Max的功能在性能上本来就非常出色，因为它的采用率高得惊人。

Max features are already exceptional in performance because adoption's been astounding.

MoPub的发布商现在不仅能用上Max的功能，还能把原有的MoPub功能整合进这个统一平台。

So MoPub publishers are getting Max features and then their preexisting MoPub features into this unified platform.

需求方将获得更纯粹的接入和大得多的规模。

Demand side is getting more pure access and much bigger scale.

我们预计，到明年完成这项工作时，我们在平台上处理的广告支出将超过150亿美元，这可不是个小数目。

And we put out there that by the time we're done with this, next year, clearing over $15,000,000,000 of ad spend in our marketplace, that's a huge amount.

你要是看规模的话，这已经跟脸书、谷歌并列了，具体谁第一谁第二我得查一下。

Like, if you just size it, that's Facebook, Google, one, two, or in whichever order I'd have to check.

但这就是未来第三个规模最大的数字广告交易平台。

But that's the third biggest digital marketplace for advertising in terms of scale that will exist.

一旦达到这种规模，只要给需求方足够的工具，他们自然会涌入——品牌方、广告代理、全渠道DSP、所有网络平台，都会在这个交易市场上高效出价。

And so when you get to that level of scale, the demand side has to come in if you give them the tools to enable it, and you start getting brands, agencies, omnichannel DSPs, all the networks, everyone bidding efficiently through this trading floor.

这对整个平台来说都是巨大的利好。

It'll be to the advantage of the entire marketplace.

所以我们看到了一个机会，去实现MoPub当初的愿景，也实现我们打造Max时的初衷——打造一个最高效的解决方案，帮助发布商最大化收益，让他们的业务能以最快的速度增长。

So we saw this opportunity to go execute on the vision that MoPAP had when they started, that we had with Max when we built it, to really create the most efficient solution, to enable publishers to yield the most so that they can grow their businesses at the highest rate possible.

现在，随着市场各方的认可，生态里的开发者和需求方都参与进来，我们有机会真正做出点了不起的东西。

And I think we now have a chance with the marketplace buying in, all the developers in the ecosystem and the demand side, to create something that's great.

天啊。

Fuck.

这话说得真到位。

That's a good sell.

这不就是Facebook和Google嘛。

That's a Facebook, Google.

对。

Yes.

我们自己。

Us.

我得问你一下，你们收购了不少公司吧。

I do wanna ask you that you've acquired a lot.

在进入快速问答前，最后一个。

Final one before the quick fire.

这个得归功于阿金。

Again, I have to credit Atkin with this one.

他问了，当你看竞争格局时，有没有哪家你特别敬佩但没收购的公司？为什么？

He asked, when you look at the competitive landscape, who do you most respect and admire that you haven't acquired and why?

我的意思是，你看。

I mean, look.

你总是会仰望那些一路成长到惊人高度的公司。

Like, you always look up to the companies that have been there and grown to just astounding levels.

就像我之前说的，谷歌和脸书是全球最顶尖的广告公司。

And like I said earlier, Google and Facebook are the two most sophisticated advertising companies on earth.

它们打造的技术，让我回想起十五年前刚入行时在浏览器里看到的广告。

They've built technologies that when I started my career in fifteen years ago on browser, we saw the ads that were running.

说实话，那时候的广告简直跟垃圾邮件没两样，跟现在完全没法比。

I mean, frankly, they were just spam compared to what it is now.

现在的广告太精准了，人们真的通过搜索广告、展示广告和脸书的原生广告发现内容。

It's so relevant, and people are really truly discovering content through search ads, display ads, native ads on Facebook.

这两家公司把技术和数据结合起来，在我整个职业生涯所专注的领域里，做出了如此多的创新，让你根本没法不佩服他们取得的成就。

And these two companies took technology, took their data, and innovated so much in the field that really I've spent most of my professional career in that you can't just stop yourself but admire what they've been able to accomplish.

我完全同意你的看法，确实非常认同。

And, listen, I totally agree with you and, yeah, very much aligned.

不过我想转到我最想聊的环节了，来个五分钟快问快答。

I do wanna move into my favorite though, which is a quick five.

我先说一句简短的话，亚当。

So I say a short statement, Adam.

你马上说说你的想法。

You give me your immediate thoughts.

这样可以吗？

Does that sound okay?

我没问题。

That's fine with me.

好。

Okay.

你最喜爱的书是哪一本？为什么？

What's the favorite book and why?

这个还真不好说，说实话，我平时读的书不多。

So this one's tough because, frankly, I don't read a whole lot.

三年前我立了个新年目标，一年读六本书，结果到现在只读了一本，工作实在太忙了。

Three years ago, I had a New Year's resolution to read six books a year, and I think I've read one since then, and just business caught up to me.

但那本是《谈判力》，一本讲谈判的书，我觉得挺有意思的。

But that was Never Split the Difference, which was negotiation book, and I found it to be pretty interesting.

这本书不错吗？

Was it good?

我就放在这儿呢。

I've got it sitting here.

有人寄给我的。

Someone sent it to me.

是的。

Yeah.

挺不错的。

It pretty good.

我就是提不起劲儿去读。

I can't bring myself to do it.

我这个人吧，总是想着，哎。

I'm a very much like, hey.

咱们干脆直接上手，靠信任型谈判来搞定。

Let's just get it done and built on trust negotiator.

你得用一些我还没掌握的技巧，这些方法真的很有说服力。

You need to do some tactics that I haven't been able to to add to my arsenal yet, but it's pretty compelling.

好的。

Okay.

你今天在AppLovin的工作里，最难的部分是什么？

What's the hardest element of your role with AppLovin today?

我觉得就是事情变得太多了。

I'd say it's just how big it's gotten.

以前我还能一天把该做的事做完，感觉不错，睡个好觉，知道自己完成了任务。

It's almost like like there was a time I could just get through my day, feel good, get a good night's sleep, and just know that I got through the task list.

第二天再把任务做完，结果又一团糟。

And tomorrow, I'd get through the task list, and it'd be bad.

现在事情越堆越多，根本追不上，压力特别大。

Now it's just it continues to build to a point where I can never catch up, and that's stressful.

这给生活的方方面面都带来了压力。

It puts pressure on all parts of your life.

我就是能睡得着。

I I just sleep well.

一天的时间终究是不够用的。

Eventually, there's not enough hours of the day.

你总得睡觉吧。

You have to sleep at some point.

随着事业规模不断扩大，无论哪个领域、哪种专业，如何平衡越来越多的职责，都是个难题，这在我们每个人的职业生涯中都会遇到。

And so figuring out how to manage all of the different responsibilities you get as something gets really big in any field and any sort of expertise as we all go through our professional careers and evolve, is a tricky thing.

我觉得这是每个人都面临的挑战。

And I think this is a challenge for everyone.

我还没能很好地应对，因为压力一直都在，我只能不停地做更多事，睡得越来越少。

And I haven't been able to execute on it that well yet because I just continue to feel the pressure and do more and sleep less.

迟早我得学会怎么管理好这一切。

And eventually, I'm gonna have to figure out how to manage it.

我得问一下，你身体挺不错的。

I have to ask, you're a fit guy.

你平时怎么锻炼？去健身房吗？

What do you do exercising gym wise?

是的。

Yeah.

我一般每天跑五英里左右，每周跑四到五次，再每周力量训练三四次。

I I try to run probably around, let's say, five miles a day, four or five times a week, and then lift probably three, four times a week.

我发现，要想扛住压力和繁重的工作，必须得动起来。

And what I've found is in order to absorb the pressure and the workload, I have to do something active.

以前在办公室的时候，要是有业务开发的会议，我就边走边谈。

And back when we were in office, when I used to have a meeting, let's say, on business development, I'd do a walking meeting.

这样一趟下来，一个多小时能走四英里。

And so over an hour, I'd walk four miles.

这让我一直保持状态。

And that kept me fit.

如果我打电话给任何人，你都会看到我在帕洛阿尔托的街上散步。

If I was doing a phone call with anyone, you'd see me walking around the streets of Palo Alto.

所以那时候，我每天差不多要走十英里。

And so every day back then, I was walking around 10 miles a day.

现在大家都远程工作了，我得继续保持这种习惯。

Now we're all remote, and I had to maintain that mentality.

我必须出去跑步。

I have to get out for a run.

我必须去健身房。

I have to go to the gym.

不然的话，压力太大，真的扛不住。

Otherwise, I think the pressure, you just can't process it.

要想应对我们所有人面对的这些事，保持健康是必须的。

You have to stay fit to be able to deal with everything we all have to deal

有两个问题。

Two questions.

第一，我现在就遇到这个问题。

One, and I have this problem now.

跑步和力量训练不会互相冲突吗？

Do running and lifting not go against each other?

是的。

Yeah.

我跑步跑得不好，力量也不强。

I'm not a good runner nor am I very strong.

所以我觉得，既然这两项我都一般，那就完全没问题。

So I think just by being bad at both, it's totally fine.

第二个问题，你有没有固定的时间做这两件事？

And then second, do you have, like, a standard time for both of them?

比如，是早上第一件事，还是晚上最后一件事？

Like, is it first thing in the morning, last thing at night?

没有。

No.

对我来说，跑步从来不在早上。

Like, running for me is, it's never in the morning.

我一醒来就得处理全球事务。

I wake up and we're global.

一上线就被各种海外工作淹没了，直接进入工作状态。

I just get bombarded with overseas stuff, I'm right into work.

但白天要是需要休息一下，我就去跑跑步。

But in the middle of the day, if I need a break, I can go for a run.

下午有时候会和老婆一起跑步，边跑边聊聊天，这也挺好的。

I may go for a run-in the afternoon with my wife and a time to catch up, And so that's a good outlet as well.

力量训练通常都在晚上。

Lifting is usually always at night.

我特意把训练安排在晚上，好把家庭时间和工作时间隔开，练一练也能让脑子放松，恢复点精力。

And I try to do that to split up family time to work time late night, and I go for a lift just to clear my mind, get some energy back.

练完之后我根本没法马上睡觉。

And then I'm not gonna be able to go to sleep right after I work out.

这样我就多了几个小时，可以晚点工作，然后再去睡觉。

And so that gives me a couple more hours of birth to go work late night and then go to bed.

天哪，你是怎么平衡五個孩子和工作的？

Man, how do you do five kids and the work life balance?

我一个孩子都没有。

I have no kids.

就算没孩子，我也做不到这样。

I still can't do this.

这全靠我老婆。

That's all credit to my wife.

如果要我一个人带五个孩子还兼顾工作，我早就撑不住了。

If I had to do five kids and balance work life, I'd be done.

孩子都是她在管，而且带得特别好。

She does the kids, and she's done a great job with them.

正因为有她，我才能专心把工作做好。

And it enables me to focus on on what I try to do with the work life.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

你可以在世界任何地方放一块广告牌，上面想写什么都可以。

You can have a billboard anywhere in the world, and it can say anything on it.

你会在上面写什么？又放在哪儿？

What would you put on that billboard, and where would it be?

这还真不容易。

That is pretty hard.

我总是想起我们刚开始的时候。

I always think about we started.

我们当时搞过一个特别搞笑的招聘广告牌。

We had these funny hiring billboard.

所以你一说广告牌，我第一个想到的就是这个。

And so when you say billboard, that's the only thing that comes to mind.

但如果要讲点激励人心的，我觉得真正推动我的，是找到了自己的热情所在。

But I'd say, I guess, like, if it was trying to be inspirational, what I found drove me was finding my passion.

只有当你对某件事充满热情，才能真正把它做到出色。

And you can only become great at something if you're passionate about it.

我觉得世界上很多人其实都没能找到自己的热情所在。

I think a lot of people in the world don't find their passion.

他们上学，往往是听父母的安排，或者觉得那是该走的路。

They go to school based on what maybe their parents wanted or what they think is the right thing to do.

对那件事根本提不起兴趣。

Not passionate about it.

结果就只是混个及格而已。

They do average.

我以前就是这样。

That's how I was.

等毕业了，

And then they graduate.

找份工作，就只想挣点钱养活自己。

They get a job, and they just wanna pay the bills.

没有热情，自然也做不出彩。

Not passionate about it, and they don't excel.

但他们只是随波逐流，而你明显对自己做的事充满热情。

But they sort of just float through life, and you're clearly passionate about what you're doing.

你真的特别投入。

You're super into it.

所以你找到了自己的热情所在。

So you found that passion.

但小时候，我可没想过将来要自己做播客。

But growing up, you weren't gonna say, I'm gonna have my own podcast.

我也没想过，我会爱上广告这行。

I wasn't gonna say, I love advertising.

说真的，这谁想得到呢。

I mean, come on.

但我阴差阳错地撞进了热爱的领域，它让我做到了远超想象的事，而且乐在其中——价值不再是我背负的负担，而是发自内心的享受。

But I somehow landed into my passion, and it let me do so much more than I ever thought was possible and love it, where worth became really my enjoyment versus my burden.

我觉得你就该去找到你的热情，然后去追逐它。

And I think I just say, go find your passion, chase it.

我真想把这句话贴满大街小巷的广告牌上。

And I would put that on a billboard and litter it all over the place.

我认为，人要想在事业上获得真正的幸福，关键就在于找到自己真正热爱的事。

And I think that's how human beings can get to true happiness professionally is finding what they're really into.

没错。

No.

我完全同意。

I couldn't agree more.

我特别感恩，这么早就找到了自己真正热爱的东西。

I always feel incredibly grateful that I found what I love so much so early.

我十三岁就爱上了风险投资和创业，所以高中大部分时间都是单身，但你知道，我那时候

I was 13 when I loved venture and startups, which is why I was single for most of high school, but, you know I was

就是个书呆子，这理由可比你强多了。

just a nerd, so that's a better reason than me.

说说看，你最亲近的导师是谁？你从他们身上学到了什么？

Tell me, who's your closest mentor, and what have you learned from them?

对。

Yes.

这个问题其实也挺难答的，因为我现在接触的都是特别聪明的人。

That one's tricky too only because I think sort of, like, where I've gotten to, I meet a lot of really smart people.

职业生涯早期，如果你遇到一个特别好的上司，通常就会形成一种导师关系，我就遇到过这样的上司。

And early on in your career, you land into a mentorship relationship usually if you have a very good boss, and I had that.

但到了我现在这个阶段，认识的聪明人实在太多了。

But over time, like where I am now, I meet so many smart people.

这挺有意思的。

It's interesting to me.

我从每一个我遇到的人身上都能学到东西。

I learn from everyone I come across.

每次对话，每个人的经历里都有值得借鉴的地方。

There's something to learn in every discussion based on everyone's experience.

只要你愿意睁眼看、主动沟通、保持开放，你就能学到东西。

If you just open your eyes and you communicate directional and you're open to it, you learn.

所以我发现，与其说有特定的导师，不如说是我的经历、关系和遇到的每个人都在指导我，我从这些积累中不断成长，这就是我成为今天这样的人的方式。

And so what I've found is, I guess, I get mentored by my experiences, my relationships, the people I cross with, then I'm learning off the sum total of all of that, and that's how I'm developing as a person.

我脑子里并没有一个具体的人选。

And I don't have anyone specific in mind.

是整体的积累。

It's the whole.

不过要说具体的话，我确实从我妻子身上学到了很多。

But I will say, if I was thinking about it down to the person, I learn a lot from my wife.

我也会从那些长期了解我的亲近之人身上学习，因为他们是我可以依靠的人。

I do learn a lot from our closest, like, folks that have known me for a long time because there are people I can go lean on.

约翰·伯班克就是一个很好的例子。

John Burbank is a good example.

我的商业伙伴爱德华多·维瓦斯也是。

My business partner, Eduardo Vivas, is a good example.

比如那些曾经为我工作、见过我另一面的人，现在都在世界各地做得风生水起，我随时可以找他们请教，这种学习无处不在。

Like, people who have worked for me that have seen me on the other side and now are off doing great things in the world who I can call on and learn from, but it's happening from all over.

我喜欢吸收新知识，只要你保持开放的心态，每次对话都能学到东西。

I like to consume knowledge, and you learn it in every single conversation if you're open to it.

有点奇怪，倒数第二个问题。

Weird one and penultimate one.

你最想改变或提升自己哪方面的领导风格？

What would you most like to change slash improve about your own style of leadership?

是的。

Yeah.

说起来也不算太难，主要是我觉得自己根本没做好那个我想成为的导师。

I guess not super hard, mainly because I think I do a horrible job making myself the mentor that I wanna be.

我真希望别总陷在琐事里，能完全信任身边的人，放手让他们去做。

I would love if I wasn't in the weeds and I just trusted everything to the folks around me.

那样我就能退一步，清楚自己的职责就是教人。

And I could go up a level and say, my job is to teach.

现在我要开始关注每一个新加入团队的人，主动去帮助他们成长，就像当年我培养公司最初那十几二十甚至五十个人那样，把人才梯队重新建起来。

And now I'm gonna go pay attention to every single person that's coming into the organization and start working with them to develop them so that we can build out the talent that I was able to groom in our first 10 or 20 or 50 folks that came into the company.

但遗憾的是，随着公司规模扩大，这件事变得越来越难，因为我手头的事情实在太多了。

And unfortunately, as we've scaled, that's been harder for me because I just have so much to do.

我真心希望有朝一日能回到这种状态，因为看到自己的经验能帮到别人，那种成就感远比其他事情来得真切。

And I feel like it's something that I aspire to get to at some point in my career because I get much more fulfillment from seeing that my knowledge can teach someone else.

当他们把学到的东西用出去，产生的影响会成倍放大，这可比你每天陷在具体事务里干的活儿有意义多了。

And then what they're able to go do with that multiplies out your impact and versus what you do tactically on the day if you're in the weed does it.

在琐事里取得成绩固然不错，但终究不是更大的格局。

It's success within those weeds, but it's not a bigger thing.

所以我希望最终能重回那个状态，也非常敬佩那些能把自己的日常工作管理好，从而升到教练和导师位置的人，而不是一直埋头做执行的那类人。

And so eventually, I hope to get back to that, and I really admire people who are able to manage their day job to elevate themselves to the point where they're a teacher and coach versus someone who is actually doing the task at hand.

最后一个。

Final one.

你之前说过，你是用长远眼光来思考问题的。

You said before how you think in terms of that long term mindset.

未来五年，你和AppLovin会是什么样子？

What does the next five years look like for you and for AppLovin?

如果五年后我们再聊一次，那时我们会在哪里？

If we have this chat again in five years, where will we be?

我给你说说三到五年后的情况。

I'll tell you in three to five years.

到时候就知道了。

We'll see.

但我可以肯定，我们绝不会松懈。

But I can assure you, we're not resting easy.

如果你不是为了钱工作，就不会太在意规避风险，反而更关注向前突破、追求增长，真正去推动创新。

The one thing, if you're not working for money, you don't care about too much protection against downside, you're much more about pushing forward and pushing for upside, you really strive to innovate.

我觉得我们过去做的很多决定，哪怕有争议，也都非常有创新性，现在大家也都能看到它们的效果了。

And I think a lot of the decisions we've made in the past, even if controversial, they were very innovative, and people see how they play out.

当然，我们也犯过不少错，但人们只记得那些对的。

And there were plenty of wrong, and obviously people latch on to the right.

但这些决定在这样一个高度竞争的市场里，真不是轻易能被接受的。

But they're not decisions that were easy to absorb in a market that's hyper competitive.

而且，大多数人根本不会做出这样的选择。

They're also not decisions that most people would have made.

我和我们团队之所以这么做，就是为了突破边界、推动创新，坚信这样能加速整个市场的发展。

And I and we have made them to really go push the envelope and create innovation with the belief that that will accelerate a market.

所以，我们会继续这么做。

And so we will continue to do that.

希望三到五年后，我们能聊聊这里业务演进中那些有意思的变化和转折。

And, hopefully, in three to five years, we're talking about some, fun turns and twists in the business evolution that we've had over here.

亚当，今天聊得太开心了，史蒂夫。

Adam, this has been so much fun, Steve.

非常感谢你耐心回答我这些天马行空的问题。

Thank you so much for putting up with my totally wayward questions.

我觉得你团队可能想揍我，但这次对话真的太棒了。

I think your team is probably gonna kill me, but this has been wonderful.

太棒了。

That was great.

谢谢，埃里克。

Thanks, Eric.

感谢你邀请我来做客。

Appreciate you having me on.

如果你没看出来，我真的很喜欢这一段。

If you couldn't tell, I absolutely love that one.

亚当刚才的表现简直无可挑剔。

Adam was just incredible there.

我喜欢这种活力和积极的态度，这场对话太精彩了，AppLovin 未来一定会迎来非常激动人心的时刻。

I love energy, the positivity, such a great conversation, some very exciting times ahead for AppLovin.

但在结束之前，我想问一下，你们在其他国家有雇佣或支付员工报酬吗？

But before we leave you today, do you employ or pay workers in other countries?

有的。

Yes.

你需要远程办公的解决方案。

Well, you need remote.

远程办公让任何规模的公司都能轻松雇佣全球团队。

Remote makes it easy for companies of all sizes to employ global teams.

他们负责国际薪资、福利、税务以及本地合规事务。

They take care of international payroll, benefits, taxes, and local compliance.

通过他们简单易用的平台，你几分钟内就能在全球各国雇佣全职员工或自由职业者。

Remote helps you onboard full time employees or contractors in countries all over the world in minutes on its simple, easy to use platform.

他们在所有服务国家都设有完整的本地法律实体，确保你永远不用对接任何第三方。

They own full local legal entities in all their covered countries, guaranteeing you never have to deal with a third party ever.

而且为了帮你省钱，远程办公从不收取任何费用或薪资比例。

And to save you money, remote never charges any fees or salary percentages.

你只需支付一个低廉的固定费用，就能获得远程办公提供的全部服务。

You get access to everything remote offers for one low flat rate.

没有任何隐藏费用。

No hidden fees.

绝对没有意外费用。

No surprises ever.

最重要的是，播客听众还能享受更大折扣。

And best of all, podcast listeners get an even bigger discount.

首名员工免费使用十二个月，第一年内每新增一名员工再免费两个月。

Get your first employee free for twelve months and two months free for any additional employees onboarded during their first year.

只需访问 remote.com/two0vc，使用促销码 two0vc 即可。

Just visit remote.com/ two 0vc and use the promo code two zero v c.

说到通过 Remote 投资员工，那为什么不能像买股票一样投资运动卡呢？

And speaking of investing in your people there with Remote, why can you not invest in sports cards like you can stocks?

有了 Alt，就可以。

With Alt, you can.

Alt 让另类资产变得更透明、更易交易，你最低只需 7 美元就能投资，最高可投一百万美元。

Alt is increasing the transparency and liquidity of alternative assets, allowing you to invest from as little as $7 to a million dollars on their exchange.

而且用 Alt，你还能省下不少手续费。

And with Alt, you also save on fees.

交易手续费只有1.5%。

There's only a 1.5% transaction fee.

他们还有一个超强的实时估值系统。

They also have an incredible real time valuation engine.

你可以随时看到自己投资组合的实时价值。

And so you can see what your portfolio is worth in real time.

真的特别厉害。

Really is incredible.

我超喜欢这个平台。

I love this platform.

去onlyalt.com看看吧。

So check them out at onlyalt.com.

最后但同样重要的是，我特别喜欢用AngelList的基金管理平台来打理我的投资。

And last but by no means least, I just love using AngelList Fund admin platform to manage my investments.

AngelList的团队和平台把所有后台事务都处理得妥妥帖帖，让我能专心跟优秀的创始人合作。

The team and platform at AngelList, they take care of everything that my back office needs so that I can focus on working with great founders.

通过AngelList，领先的基金经理已经在线完成了超过一万个投资，覆盖了六千家初创公司，全部集中在一个平台上。

Leading fund managers have made over 10,000 investments into 6,000 startups via AngelList, all online and all in one place.

再加上最近推出的滚动基金，你现在可以轻松在angellist.com/rolling上找到并投资这些顶尖基金经理。

And with the recently announced rolling funds, you can easily find and invest in these top fund managers on angellist.com/rolling.

一如既往，非常感谢你的支持，我也特别期待本周晚些时候为你带来更多精彩的节目。

As always, I so appreciate your support, and I cannot wait to bring you more exceptional episodes later this week.