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我们回来了。
We are back.
欢迎回到本期的20 VC，我是哈里·斯蒂宾斯。
Welcome back to another week in 20 VC with me, Harry Stebbings.
今天，我们邀请到了当今风险投资界最重要机构之一的领导者。
And today, we're joined by one of the leaders of one of the biggest institutions in Venture today.
他们今年早些时候宣布的最新一期基金，规模高达两千亿美元。
Their most recent fund, announced earlier this year, was a whopping $20,000,000,000.
因此，我非常高兴地介绍杰夫·利伯曼，Insight Partners的董事总经理。
And so with that, I'm so thrilled to welcome Jeff Lieberman, Managing Director at Insight Partners.
在Insight的过去二十四年里，杰夫主导了对Qualtrics、DeliveryHero、HelloFresh、Cvent、Mimecast、Udemy等多家领先企业的投资。
Over the last twenty four years at Insight, Jeff has led investments in leading companies like Qualtrics, DeliveryHero, HelloFresh, Cvent, Mimecast, Udemy to name a few.
他还担任多家上市公司和非上市公司的董事会成员。
He also serves on numerous public and private boards.
同时，我要特别感谢Insight的丽贝卡和德文，今天提供了许多精彩的问题和建议。
I'd also want to say huge thank you to Rebecca and Devon at Insight for some amazing questions, suggestions today.
他们确实让整个日程安排变得格外特别。
They really did make the schedule so much more special.
但在进入今天这期节目之前，哈佛管理公司一直在寻找下一代杰出的投资人和创业者。
But before we move into the episode today, Harvard management company is constantly seeking out the next generation of great investors
和
and
企业家。
entrepreneurs.
哈佛管理公司近五十年来一直管理着哈佛大学的捐赠基金，是最早进入风险投资领域的机构投资者之一。
HMC has managed Harvard University's endowment for nearly fifty years and was one of the first institutional investors in Venture Capital.
他们的丰富经验和长期投资视野，使他们成为帮助改变世界的想法走向可行与成功理想的合作方。
Their experience and long term investment horizon makes them ideal partners to get world changing ideas on a path to viability and success.
他们真正以合作伙伴的身份行事，提供富有洞见的建议，助力管理者取得成功。
They work as a true partner, providing insightful perspectives to help managers succeed.
我个人有幸与哈佛管理公司的团队共事，可以说他们不仅是卓越的合作伙伴，更是非常敏锐的投资人。
I personally have had the pleasure of working with the HMC team and can say that they're truly exceptional partners, people and incredibly savvy investors.
无论你是第一次发起基金，还是第五次，HMC都欢迎与成长型和成熟的管理团队合作。
Whether you are launching your first fund or your fifth, HMC welcomes the opportunity to partner with both developing and established managers.
有什么想法想和团队分享吗？
Have an idea you want to share with the team?
直接发邮件到 venturehmc.harvard.edu 就行。
Just send it to venturehmc.
哈佛大学邮箱地址。
Harvard dot edu.
说到和HMC合作的优秀伙伴，Mercury正在为初创公司打造全方位的银行服务。
And speaking of amazing partners with HMC there, Mercury is building full stack banking for startups.
无论你在哪，不到十分钟就能申请到FDIC保险的银行账户、实体和虚拟借记卡、境内外转账，还能无缝对接Gusto、Stripe、QuickBooks、Plaid，以及你公司用的几乎所有其他工具。
Apply in under ten minutes from anywhere for FDIC insured bank accounts, physical and virtual debit cards, domestic and international wires, and integrations with Gusto, Stripe, QuickBooks, Plaid, and basically every other tool your startup uses.
他们还提供一些特别的功能，比如API接口、自定义团队管理，以及新推出的Mercury Treasury——专为高增长初创公司设计的现金管理产品。
They also offer unusual features like API access, custom team management, and their newly launched Mercury Treasury, a cash management product for high growth startups.
他们甚至会通过Mercury Raise计划，帮你对接硅谷顶尖投资人，助力你的公司成长。
They'll even help you build your startup with Mercury Raise, a program to connect you to Silicon Valley's top investors.
前往 mercury.com/signup 注册申请。
Head over to mercury.com forward slash sign up to apply.
最后，来聊聊 Sprig。
And finally, Sprig.
用户研究员希望产品团队基于真实用户洞察打造出色体验，而产品团队则想快速上线，不用等研究结果。
User researchers want their product teams to build amazing experiences that are informed by user insights, and product teams wanna ship products quickly without having to wait for research.
有了 Sprig，两边都能如愿。
With Sprig, both teams can get their own way.
Sprig 是一个用户研究平台，让你能在产品内部或现有用户流程中，提出简短直接的问题。
Sprig is a user research platform that lets you ask bite sized questions within your product or existing user journeys.
Dropbox、Square、Opendoor 和 Loom 等公司都在用 Sprig 的内嵌微调研，快速了解用户，跟上现代软件开发的节奏，确保每个产品决策都基于真实用户反馈。
Companies like Dropbox, Square, Opendoor, and Loom all use Sprig's in product microsurveys and concept understand their customers and the pace of modern software development so they can make every product decision a customer informed product decision.
如果你希望在发布产品的速度下获取深度用户洞察，不妨试试 Sprig，访问 sprig.com 即可。
And if you want to obtain rich insights from users at the pace you ship products, then give Sprig a try by visiting sprig.com.
再提醒一次，sprig.com，sprig.com。
Again, that's sprig.com, sprig.com.
好了。
Alright.
现在正式开始节目，我非常高兴能邀请到Insight Partners的董事总经理杰夫·利伯曼。
It's now time for the show, and I'm so excited to welcome Jeff Lieberman, managing director at Insight Partners.
3210。
3210.
您已到达目的地。
You have now arrived at your destination.
杰夫，我早就期待这次对话了。
Jeff, I've been so looking forward to this.
节目开始前，泰迪和德文给我分享了太多精彩内容。
I had so many great things from Teddy and Devon before the show.
非常感谢你今天能来参加。
So thank you so much for joining me today.
当然。
Absolutely.
很高兴能来，谢谢邀请我。
Excited to be here and thanks for having me.
我一直是你的粉丝。
I'm a big fan.
哪里的话。
Not at all.
我早就想聊这个话题了，不过我想先听听你的故事。
I've been wanting to see this one for a long time, but I do wanna start with a little bit on you and a bit of the story.
我在Insight已经待了整整二十四年。
Twenty four years now with Insight.
你是怎么进入风险投资这个领域的？当初是怎么开始的？
So how did you make your way into the world of Venture, and what was that entry for you?
是的。
Yeah.
我的故事要从新泽西说起，我住的地方离纽约市大概二十英里，隔着一条河。
My story starts I grew up in Jersey, which I'm in New York City, so it's about 20 miles across the river.
我爸爸是工会电工。
My dad's a union electrician.
我妈妈小时候做各种零工。
My mom did odd jobs growing up.
我父母都没上过大学，家里没什么钱，完全是工薪阶层。
Neither of my parents graduated college, so we didn't have a lot of money, total working class.
如果你在我十几岁的时候问我风险投资是什么，我肯定一脸茫然，完全不懂。
And if you asked me, you know, what Venture Capital was when I was a teenager, I would've looked used with a blanks, you know, stare on my face.
我小时候赚钱的方式就是跟着我爸干活。
What I did growing up to make some money is work with my dad.
每到周末和放学后，我都给他当助手。
So on the weekends and after school, I was his helper.
我个子很小。
And I'm a small little guy.
所以通常都是我挖沟埋线，或者钻进阁楼里拉电线。
What that usually meant was I was digging ditches to run wire or working my way through attics pulling wire.
你学到的第一课，可能也是最重要的一课，就是体力活真没意思。
And what you learn, and it was probably the the number one first life lesson I was manual labor isn't fun.
我是真真切切吃够了苦头才明白的，因为那时候我天天干这个。
I mean, I learned that, like, the hard way because I was doing it.
我很快意识到，我想靠脑子赚钱，而不是靠力气——虽然我那会儿也没啥力气。
And I quickly realized I wanted to use my brain, not my braun, although I didn't have much braun, to make a living.
于是我开始想，到底怎么做才能动脑子呢？
I started thinking about what do you do to use your brain.
我爸爸的朋友不是电工就是水管工、木匠，我根本没见过谁是做商业或搞高深学问的。
My dad's friends were electricians and plumbers and carpenters, so I didn't really know people that had done business or done highly intellectual things.
所以对我来说，我的眼界特别窄。
So to me, I had this very narrow set.
那时候还没互联网。
It was pre Internet.
我脑子里就三个选项：当律师、当医生，或者做商人。
I was either gonna be a lawyer, a doctor, or a business person.
我不喜欢电视上的法律剧，所以这条路就排除了。
I didn't like the law shows on TV, so that was out.
当医生我怕见血，这也行不通。
Doctoring, I was afraid of blood, so that was out.
这么一来，我就只剩下当个商人这条路了。
So it kinda left me as a, you know, a business guy.
这几乎是唯一剩下的选择。
That was kind of the default choice.
我做了八十年代末所有孩子都会做的事。
I did what any kid in the the late eighties would do.
翻了《美国新闻与世界报道》，查了顶尖的商学院。
Got in US News World Report, looked up the best business school.
最好的商学院是沃顿，我就决定要去那里。
Best business school was Wharton and said, I wanna go there.
我努力学习，运气不错，最后进了宾大。
Worked hard, and I was super fortunate, got into Penn.
所以这算是第一个转折点。
So that was kind of break one.
第二个转折点是我大学几年的室友，他从小在加利福尼亚一个叫希尔兹伯勒的小镇长大。
Break two was my roommate in college for a couple years, grew up in a small town in California called Hillsboro.
我根本不知道希尔兹伯勒是哪儿，心想：我都上大学了，居然连这地方都没听过。
I had no idea what Hillsboro was, so I'm like, I go to college, no idea what Hillsboro is.
巧的是，他小时候最好的朋友，他爸在硅谷开了一家小投资公司，叫红杉资本。
And it just so happens, his best friend growing up, the father, runs a small little investment firm in the Valley called Sequoia Capital.
我原来那个连电工工会都不懂的小世界，一夜之间全变了，耳边尽是关于风险投资、仙童半导体，还有硅谷那些充满可能的故事。
So my little electrician union world, where I have no idea what this is, changes overnight, and I'm regaled with these tales and these stories of Venture Capital, Fairchild Semiconductor, and all the things that the Valley holds promise of.
那时候，这些就是我们宿舍里天天聊的主旋律。
That was kinda like the narrative we had in our dorm room.
这彻底打开了我的眼界。
It opened my eyes.
所以，我自然就想一头扎进这个领域，因为实在太让人兴奋了。
So, of course, I wanna get into that world because it was super exciting.
最后，我总算明白了做生意到底是怎么回事。
And finally, like, I understood what business was all about.
我给所有这些风投和投资公司投了简历，结果连个面试机会都没拿到。
What I did was I applied to all these venture firms and investment firms, and I was summarily, you know, denied any interviews whatsoever.
你懂的吧？
Right?
我当时心想，完了，这下彻底没戏了。
I I was, like, oh for, like, 400.
说白了，就是死撑到底，可最后啥也没换来。
So it was, like, persistence at its best, but paid off to nothing.
那时候，我做了任何一个有自尊的沃顿本科生都会做的事。
And I did what any self respecting Wharton undergrad would do at that point.
我转投咨询公司和投行，最后进了麦肯锡，那地方真不错。
I applied to consulting firms and investment banks, ended up working at McKinsey, which is fantastic.
但在那儿工作的时候，我就想自己创业。
And while I was there, I wanted to start a company.
我的意思是，那时候人人都在这么做。
I mean, that's what everyone was doing.
那是九十年代中期的事了。
Was the mid nineties.
那时候互联网创业风潮正盛，我就想着，算了，我不凑热闹，自己干点别的。
Dotcom stuff was going crazy, and I'm like, I'm gonna sit out and do this.
但有个大问题，每天早上醒来我都会想：我的那个伟大点子到底在哪？
Big problem though is every morning I would wake up and be like, what's my big idea?
我一度以为，只要睡一觉，就能突然灵光一现，得到一个绝妙的创意。但其实，因为成长环境的关系，我根本没意识到创业是个持续的过程，不是靠顿悟，而这一点，我以前压根没想过，也没人跟我提过。
And like, I thought overnight I had this dream and this epiphany, and I didn't realize, really because of my upbringing, that entrepreneurship was a process, not an epiphany, and it's something that I just never really had thought about or was exposed to.
我小时候见过最接近创业者的人，就是那家披萨店的老板，他们才是真正意义上的创业者，拼死拼活地干。我本该从他们身上明白，创业靠的是苦干，不是什么灵光一闪。
I mean, the closest thing to entrepreneurs I had seen growing up were the owners of the pizza place, which is a true entrepreneur, and they worked really hard, so I should have actually understood from that that it was really hard work, not this epiphany.
我没什么好点子，所以有段时间特别迷茫。
I had no good ideas, so I was kinda lost for a while.
说来巧了， McKinsey 里有个合伙人，正好跟一个刚创办了一家小投资公司叫 Insight 的人是朋友。
You know, the big break was that just so happened one of the partners at McKinsey was friends with one of these guys who had just started this little investment firm called Insight.
他们帮我牵了线。
They put me in touch.
我见了这个人，杰夫·霍林。
I met this guy, Jeff Horring.
那是1997年的事了。
This is back in 1997.
杰夫刚离开华宝银行，他觉得未来科技的价值、收入和利润会集中在软件层面，而不是硬件层面。
Jeff actually had left Warburg Pincus and had this notion that the software layer of IT versus the hardware layer was where the future value, revenue, and profits were going to exist in technology.
这就是他的核心观点。
That was the thesis.
这比安德森说‘软件吞噬世界’早了差不多十年。
This is probably ten years before Andreessen's software eating the world.
所以他的顿悟就是，这将会带来巨变。
So his epiphany was that this is gonna change.
那时候，西海岸的人全都在盯着硬件，还有光通信和半导体这些领域。
You know, at the time, in the West Coast, it was all about hardware and, you know, optical and semiconductors.
所以那时候西海岸的人对软件并不太看重。
So they weren't really big into software back then on the West Coast.
于是杰夫有了这个顿悟。
So Jeff had this epiphany.
他提出想创办一家专注于软件、追求增长且面向全球的公司。
He pitched and said, I wanna build a firm that's growth oriented, focused on software, and global.
我完全被他说服了，如今一晃已经二十四年了。
And I bought that hook, line, and sinker, and here we are twenty four years later.
我能问个问题吗？
Can I ask?
有几点我得好好理一理。
There's a couple of elements I just have to unpack.
虽然完全跑题了，但真是……
I completely not on schedule, but fucking.
我说过我不太在意细节，但你刚才提到你父母在你成长过程中的影响。
I told you I'm not a sound of germs, but you mentioned your parents there in the upbringing.
我觉得父母对人的影响，远比大多数人想的要深。
I think parents impact you so much more than than one thinks.
回头看看父母，观察他们的工作态度，还有在那样的家庭里长大，你觉得这些对你的心态产生了什么影响？对你来说，最大的收获是什么？
When you look back into your parents, seeing their work ethic, and growing up really in that household, how do you think that impacted your mindset, and what were some big takeaways for you?
我父母为了养家，真的付出了非常多的努力。
So my parents worked very, very hard to put food on the table.
举个例子吧，我大学毕业之后，只换过两份工作。
Just to give you a sense, I've had two jobs since I graduated college.
我先在麦肯锡干过，后来就一直在英赛特。
I worked at McKinsey, and I've been at Insight.
但在上麦肯锡这份工作之前，我11岁起就换过19份不同的工作。
Between being 11 in that McKinsey job, I held 19 different jobs.
为了糊口，什么活我都干过。
So I've done everything to pay the bills.
他们让我明白，想要什么就得自己去争取，吃苦是理所当然的。
So they instilled this notion that if I wanted something, I'd have to go get it, and that hard work was okay.
他们用实际行动传递了这个明确的信息。
That was the clear message that they showed through their efforts.
你得靠聪明才智和努力才能有所收获，他们就是这么做的。
You know, ingenuity and hard work would pay off, and that's what they did.
无论我想做什么，他们都会全力支持我。
And they were highly supportive relative to whatever I wanted to do.
他们因为不了解，所以没给我指路，没说你非得上常春藤名校，或者非得干这行那行。
What they didn't do because they didn't know, they didn't pave the way and say, you need to go to an Ivy League college or you need to do this or that.
他们真的什么都不知道。
They had no idea.
要按我爸爸的想法，我现在早就当精算师了。
You know, if it was up to my dad, I would have been an actuary.
说来好笑。
Funny story.
他认识的唯一一种商业职业，就是他曾经给一个家伙打工，那人住着大房子，是个精算师。
So the only business profession he knew is he worked for one guy, he had this huge house, and it was he was an actuary.
他负责管理美国精算师协会，那房子真挺气派的。
He ran, like, the American Actuarial Society, and it was a really nice house.
我去宾大时，我爸就说：你得当精算师。
So my dad, when I went to Penn, was like, you gotta become an actuary.
他们那儿的精算科学专业特别棒。
They have a great actuarial science program there.
如果你了解我，大概会觉得这职业简直是我最不适合干的。
If you know me, like, that would probably be the worst profession ever for me.
我肯定早就挂科退学了。
I would have, like, failed out.
我选了一门精算课，结果惨不忍睹。
So I took one actuary class, and it was awful.
大概一个月后我就退了，真是万幸。
I dropped it after about a month, thankfully.
我爸给我指的路就是这个，好在我后来走了另一条路。
But that was the career advice that my dad gave me, and fortunately, I went the other way.
你说他们并没有像现在很多直升机父母那样，拼命逼着孩子做事，对吧？
You said they didn't, like, you know, push you like a lot of maybe more modern helicopter parents might push their children as we see and hear about.
你有没有后悔当时没多推你一把？
Do you wish you had pushed you more?
现在对你自己的孩子来说，是该推他们一把，还是该让他们自己找方向？
And I guess with your children today, is it right to push them or is it right to let them find their own path?
还是说，他们其实需要一些引导？
Or do they need guidance?
你给我点建议吧。
Help me out.
我那时候的内在动力，是因为家里一直有种匮乏感，我爸爸是工会电工。
The intrinsic motivation I had was there was scarcity mentality in my household because, like, my dad, he's a union electrician.
干完一个活儿，可能就失业一两个月，啥收入都没有。
So, you know, after a job, you can get laid off and you're not working for a month or two or whatever.
所以总担心他拿不到工资。
So there was always this fear that he wouldn't have a paycheck.
所以我妈妈总在做些零工，我爸也一样，我们家一直都在精打细算过日子。
So my mom was always doing some odd job, and he was always doing some odd job, and we're always trying to, you know, scrimp on money.
我从小就被这种匮乏心态影响，这么多年才慢慢改过来。
I always grew up with this scarcity mentality, which has taken a long time over the years to change.
所以我很自然地就有很强的内驱力去工作。
So there's a lot of intrinsic motivation to work.
我从来就没为这事儿发过愁。
So I never had that problem.
我天生就对追求卓越有种莫名的向往。
Intrinsically, there's something about, like, excellence that I'm just attracted to.
我总在想，怎么才能把一件事做到极致？
So that was just this notion of, like, well, how do we do something great?
这种想法是发自内心的。
That's just something intrinsic.
现在想想，我有两个青春期的孩子。
With my kids, you know, fast forward, I got two teenagers.
我跟老婆开玩笑说，其实他们上不上大学，我真没那么在意。
You know, I joke with my wife, and I'm like, well, I don't I don't really care if they go to college or not.
就像我刚才说的，宾大对我来说是个巨大的跳板。
Now Penn, as I just told you, was this huge elevator for me.
我孩子已经自带这样的跳板了。
My kids kinda have that elevator already.
我只希望他们能找到真正感兴趣的事，能从中获得成就感，每天早上醒来都有内在动力去做些对社会有益的事。
I want them to, you know, find things they're excited by, that they're productive by, that they can intrinsically just get up every day and, like, be motivated to do something productive for society.
所以我们不会逼得太紧。
So we don't push very hard.
他们拥有巨大的机会。
They have huge opportunities.
他们拥有巨大的优势。
They have huge advantage.
他们拥有巨大的特权。
They have huge privilege.
如果他们去了宾大，那当然再好不过。
And then if they go to Penn, that's great.
就算没去宾大，也没关系，一样很好。
If they don't go to Penn, that's great too.
要是他们没上大学，直接去当了工程师，那才叫了不起。
If they don't go to college and they go become an engineer somewhere, that's spectacular.
欢迎来到20年育儿之旅，杰夫。
And welcome to 20 parenting, Jeff.
我们今天要聊点新内容。
We've got a new side of the show.
我想问你一下，你刚才提到自己是怎么进入英赛克、进入风投领域的？
I do wanna ask you, you mentioned your entry there into Insight and into the world of Venture.
我一直很清楚，我从来没经历过经济下行。
I'm always very cognizant I've never experienced a downturn.
我最近几年突然赶上了大牛市。
I've suddenly experienced a boom in the last few years.
但我从来没经历过经济下行。
I've But never experienced a downturn.
你经历过好几次繁荣与萧条。
You've seen multiple booms and busts.
你多次经历繁荣与萧条，这对你的投资心态有什么影响？
How did seeing the multiple booms and busts, how did that impact your investing mindset?
还有，既然你给我建议，我该知道些什么？
And I guess, like, advising me, what should I know?
你知道吗？
You know what?
我想说的是，我从1998年开始认真做这一行。
What I would say is, I mean, I started doing this earnestly in '98.
我们做了很多投资。
We made a lot of investments.
我主导了不少投资，这本来就是Insight的流程——让年轻人多上手。
I led a lot of investments, and that's part of Insight's process to let young people do lots of stuff.
整整两年，我感觉自己简直如日中天。
And for a good two years, you know, I was on top of the world.
我觉得自己聪明得不得了。
I was a genius.
对吧？
Right?
所有投资都大幅升值。
Everything was marked up.
我看起来风光无限，Insight内部和整个行业里的同行也都一样。
I looked fantastic as did all our, you know, the peers in Insight and peers across the industry.
天哪，曾经好得不得了的事，转眼就变得一塌糊涂。
Come o one, what was great beyond great becomes, you know, awful.
你得熬过一段痛苦时期，重组、裁员、减记、核销，样样都来。
And you live through a period of pain with restructuring, termination, writing things down, writing things off.
高的时候高得离谱，低的时候也低得吓人。
The high was high, the low was low.
我觉得最大的教训是，面对顺境要冷静，面对逆境也要保持清醒。
You know, think the biggest lesson is that you gotta moderate your point of view on the ups, and you gotta moderate your point of views on the down.
事情往往没看起来那么糟，也远没看起来那么好。
It's probably never as bad as it looks, probably never as good as it looks.
回头看过去这一年，我们到底经历了什么？
You look at the last year, what have we had?
这个周末我看到整个行业平均回报率高达50%，这太离谱了，根本不可能持续下去。
You know, 50% returns I read this weekend across the industry, like, as an industry, that's ridiculous, massively unsustainable.
我们没那么聪明。
We're not all that smart.
我们也没那么厉害，包括我自己在内。
We're not all that good, including myself.
这种事是有可能发生的。
It's possible.
显然有什么地方不对劲，迟早会回归均值，甚至可能跌得比均值还低。
So there's clearly something going on, and there'll be some amount of mean reversion whether the mean shoots to the opposite side of way below that.
谁知道呢？
Who knows?
但最重要的一课是，别被上涨冲昏了头。
But number one lesson is you gotta moderate the ups.
也别被下跌吓倒了。
You gotta moderate the downs.
2000年的那次下跌和2008年的那次，完全是两码事。
2,000 or one dip versus the o eight dip, very different.
2000年那次，很多公司根本没什么真实的经济实力，也没护城河。
One was in 2000, just a lot of companies that didn't have real economic power and or moats.
消费类公司单位经济效益全是负的。
The consumer companies had massively negative unit economics.
企业类公司则全是炒作，客户却没几个。
The enterprise companies had a lot of hype without a lot of customers.
所以那些都不是真东西。
So they weren't real.
当时资金非常充裕。
There was a lot capital.
到了2008年，真正有实力的公司多了，但资金反而变得紧张。
And then in o eight, there was a lot of real companies, and the capital became scarce.
所以当时发生的情况，和现在完全不一样。
So totally different dynamics in terms of what happened.
再往前看到现在，感觉资金多得不得了。
And then you roll that forward to today, it feels like there's a ton of capital.
我觉得每一天过去，我越来越觉得，这些公司的炒作程度已经远远超过了它们实际能做成的样子。
And I would say more and more every day that goes by, there's probably, in my estimation, more and more hype relative to what these companies can be.
确实有不少真正的好公司，但估值和炒作之间的差距，才是问题所在。
There's a lot of real companies, but the valuation versus the hype, that's the disconnect.
我觉得这种差距正在不断积累。
I would say that's kind of building up.
等它崩盘的时候，具体怎么崩、什么时候崩，我完全说不准，可能是下周，也可能是六年之后，但很明显，现实和泡沫之间迟早要出问题。
When that breaks, how it breaks, have no idea whether that's a week from today or, you know, six years from today, but it feels like there is a dislocation of the reality at some point.
你投资生涯刚起步两年半的时候，市场真刀真枪地跌了一把，你的投资组合跟大家一样大幅缩水，那时候有没有动摇你的信心？
When the rubber hit the road two, two and a half years into your investing career, did it knock your confidence when your portfolio bluntly was damaged in value considerably along with everyone else 's in market, but it does destroy confidence.
你当时是怎么应对的？这件事对你产生了什么影响？
How did you react to it, and how did it impact you?
我觉得这可能更多是个心理门槛。
You know, I think one of the it's probably a psychological barrier.
我从小长大的环境让我比较内敛，所以外界的事很难影响到我。
You know, growing up where I did, I was pretty guarded, so nothing was gonna get in.
那时候我根本没意识到外面的情况有多糟。
So I was pretty unaware of how bad it was out there.
如果我当时知道情况这么严重，再结合我现在心理上的成熟度，我肯定会担心得多。
And if I knew how bad was, and if I was probably where I am today from an evolutionary standpoint psychologically, I would have probably been way more worried.
我当时就是个二十出头、无忧无虑的年轻人，知道市场不好，但完全没体会到有多深的危机。
So I was kind of a happy go lucky 2425 year old understanding it was bad out there, but not understanding nearly the depths of how bad.
所以，其实我挺幸运的，不知道那么多，反而心里踏实，现在想想还挺感激的。
And so I was probably very, very happy not to have so that was thankful.
我的意思是，我和你同龄，但我已经坐在机翼上了，舱门还开着。
I mean, the the thing that worries me is I'm the same age as you, but I got the window open, and I'm on the fucking wing.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
所以说吧。
So yeah.
那时候，无知反而让我过得安心，我想。
I mean, ignorance was bliss for me, I guess, at that point.
现在我清楚多了，也知道有些事根本控制不了。
You know, I would say now that I'm very aware of it, I know I can't control it.
对吧？
Right?
我唯一确定控制不了的，就是市场会怎么走，是涨还是跌。
That's one thing I know I can't control is what happens to the market and whether it goes up or down.
某种程度上，你只能用现有的资源去操作。
At some level, you do play with what you have.
从根本上说，我会告诉自己和团队：我们就投那些肯定能长期存活、并且真正优秀的公司。
And fundamentally, what I tell myself and my team is let's just invest in companies that we know will survive long term and are great long term.
我们的回报要么不错，要么非常出色。
Our returns will either be good or spectacular.
你控制不了市场。
You can't control the markets.
完全同意。
Totally agree.
但有些因素是你能掌控的，它们能帮你应对市场波动。
But there are variables that you can control, which help you navigate markets.
我觉得，就像我说的，我们话题跳得有点快，但投资节奏就是一个。
I think, you know, as I said, we're jumping around, but, like, deployment or speed of investing is one.
这一点上，杰夫，我很想听听你的看法，因为很多高手都告诉我：哈里，赶紧出手，赶紧出手。
And it's one where Jeff, you know, I'd love your wisdom because a lot of the best tell me, Harry, deploy, deploy, deploy.
关键在于钱怎么花出去。
It's about cash out the door.
你得在场上真刀真枪地打。
You gotta play the game on the field.
这个我明白。
I understand that.
但也有人跟我说，不对。
And then I have others who say, no.
那完全是胡说八道。
You know, that's absolute crap.
你怎么看这个问题？
How do you think about it?
我们是不是该在场上拼，同时缩短融资和投资的周期？
Should we be playing the game on field and compressing fundraising deployment times?
我觉得这跟你基金所处的阶段有点关系。
You know, I think it depends a little bit on where you are in your fund.
我的意思是，归根结底，这个周期总会结束的。
I mean, it's at the end of the day, the cycle will end.
就像我们刚才说的，关键在于，是六周后还是六年后？
And like we just talked about, the question is, is it six weeks from now or six years from now?
这取决于你和有限合伙人的关系，你刚在低迷市场里做了这些，现在还能不能募到新基金？
Depending on your relationship with your LPs, are you able to raise a fund given what you just did in a down market?
因为迟早会有一个调整，这是很有可能的。
Because there is a likelihood at some point, there will be a correction.
所以如果我自己来募一期基金，这纯粹是假设性的。
So if I raise my own this is now purely hypothetical.
如果我正在做第一期基金，现在全力冲刺、快速出手确实很有吸引力，但风险也不小——万一市场明年、甚至下周就回调了，那你可就麻烦了。
If I was on a first fund and, you know, the notion of going all out really, really fast right now is quite intriguing, but also, you know, there's somewhat risk because at the end of the day, if the market corrects for the next year or next week, you're kind of in a lot of trouble.
不过，大概率这种情况不会发生，那你也就没事了。
There's probably a high degree of likelihood that doesn't happen, so you'll be fine.
所以我觉得，关键还是看你自己的风险承受能力，以及你的基金现在处于什么阶段。
So I think it depends on your own risk where your fund stands.
如果你动作慢一点，就会更保守一些。
And if you're slower, you'll be a little more conservative.
回报可能没那么高，但要是市场回调，你还能撑得住。
Returns won't be as good, but you'll muddle through if things correct.
你是怎么看待这个问题的？
How do you think about it?
你们周一坐下来开会的时候，还没正式开始，大家是不是都会说：你听说了吗？
When you guys sit down and you guys and girls sit down on a Monday, and naturally, before the meeting starts, everyone's going, oh, do you see?
你知道吗，Tiger做的投资比Harry做的播客 episodes 还多。
You know, Tiger did more deals than Harry did podcast episodes.
是觉得我们也得跟上，赶紧把钱投出去吗？
Is it like, yeah, we need to do the same.
还是觉得，幸好我们投资节奏稳得住？
We need to push money out the door too, or is it like, glad that we're stable in our deployment?
你们内部是怎么想这个问题的？
How do you internally think about that?
我们其实不会专门坐下来琢磨部署的节奏。
Well, we don't sit and think through deployment paces per se.
我的意思是，我们关心的是交易本身。
I mean, we think about deals.
我们想的是，嗯，做的这些交易是不是够好？
We think about, you know, are we doing good deals?
我们就专心把好交易做出来。
And let's focus on doing good deals.
至于部署的节奏、产出多少，跟硬性追求产出速度，这两者我们不太纠结。
And then kind of deployment places and output of that versus, like, managing to an output pace.
对我们团队来说，就只考虑这一件事。
You know, on my team, that's all we think about.
我们根本没有设定什么目标。
Like, we don't have no targets.
不是说，哎，我们得完成多少笔交易，或者投出多少资本，或者必须做到这个量。
It's not like, oh, we need to do x number of deals or deploy x dollars of capital or this is how much we're doing.
那只是结果，不是我们去刻意追求的东西。
That's an output, not something we manage to.
另一件事我想听听你的看法，就是现在的价格敏感度，价格真是五花八门，怎么说呢。
Another thing that I would love to have your advice on is price sensitivity today, and prices are very creative, to say the least.
你觉得现在的价格敏感度该怎么看？
How do you think about price sensitivity today?
你经历过这么多起落，最大的教训是什么？
What are some big lessons for you having seen many different booms and busts?
我觉得关于价格，最重要的有两点。
You know, I would say, I think the most important thing about price, well, two things.
第一，我们最终能掌控的，只有投资资产本身的质量。
One is the only thing we can control ultimately is the quality of an asset that we invest in.
所以我们花更多心思去琢磨资产的质量，以及它未来的潜力。
So we spend a lot more thinking about the quality of an asset and the future potentiality of the asset.
我看待定价的方式是，往前看五到七年，想象一下这家公司在正常情况下的样子。
So the way I think about pricing is I go five to seven years out, think about what this business looks like in a base case scenario.
这不仅仅是收入，更是盈利潜力。
And it's not just revenue, it's it's profit potential.
我们常常自欺欺人，随便拿收入倍数来比较。
I think, you know, we trick ourselves and and just throw revenue multiples around.
但归根结底，就算在SaaS这种相对可预测的行业里，一家公司的现金流利润率可能是50%，另一家却只有20%。
But at the end of the day, even in the world of SaaS, which is pretty predictable, one SaaS company will have a 50% cash flow margin, the other will have a 20% cash flow margin.
从长远来看，前者显然更有优势。
One is gonna be theoretically in the long term.
这下我的沃顿教育背景开始发挥作用了。
This is my Wharton education kicking in.
它的价值可能是另一家的两倍半。
Two and a half times more valuable than the other.
这就是我在沃顿学到的。
That's what I learned at Wharton.
我都能很快讲给我孩子听。
I can teach that to my kids pretty quickly.
但这种想法其实挺简单的，重点是，在这种市场里，我们总是把所有的收入流、现金流都当成一码事。
But pretty simplistic, but the point being is, I think in markets like this, we value all revenue streams, cash streams the same.
我觉得真正的机会在于，关注那些别人忽视的东西——比如质量本身，还有这种质量对应的价格。
And ultimately, I think that's where the opportunity is, is to focus on things that others don't see relative to quality and pricing of that quality.
你觉得别人忽略了什么？
What do you think others don't see?
不是这个意思。
No.
我是说，一般市场整体都这样，这种时候，普通资产的价格往往被抬得太高。
I think the others being just the market in general, I think in times like this, we typically average assets get priced way up.
优质资产价格会上涨，但它们之间的差距反而会缩小。
Great assets get priced up, but the the spread between those assets probably compresses.
还有一些资产，明明没理由被冷落，却偏偏没人理。
And then some assets get left behind for no apparent reason too.
我觉得这些地方都藏着机会，值得好好琢磨不同资产之间的相对价值。
I think there's opportunities across all that to think through the relative value of the different assets.
一旦你离开SaaS领域，进入消费互联网，那简直就是一片蛮荒之地。
When you leave SaaS world and get to kind of consumer Internet, I mean, now you're in the wild west of like consumer Internet.
我都不明白怎么能把这些都归为一类。
I don't even know how people bucket it as one thing.
从支付公司到零售商，再到消费品公司和社交平台，它们的利润率、护城河和长期盈利模式全都不一样，可我们却把它们统统混在一起。
It goes from payment companies to retailers to consumer product companies to social networks, all having fundamentally different margin structures, moats, long term economics, yet we kinda gem all that stuff together.
所以我觉得，这里面的机会更大，关键是要搞清楚哪些公司真正有潜力，长期能保持优势，实现可持续的盈利。
So I think there's even more opportunity within that to figure out which ones we believe or you believe long term will will be the winners and have sustainable advantage and ultimately sustainable economics.
那些才是你该投资的公司。
And then those are the ones you wanna be in.
对吧？
Right?
说起来容易做起来难，但这正是我们的工作。
Easier said than done, but that's kind of our job.
所以在这样的市场里，所有东西都被炒高了，问题在于，哪些是真正能持久的？
So in markets like this, everything gets bit up, the question is, which ones are the sustainable ones?
如果你持有的是长期真正优秀的公司，我觉得价格没那么重要。
And if you own the ones that are really good long term, I don't think the price overly matters.
即使市场回调，你的回报可能会差一点，但依然不错。
Your returns will be worse if things correct, but they're still gonna be good.
如果市场没回调，你的回报会非常惊人。
And if things don't correct, your returns will be spectacular.
但如果你持有的是差的公司，一旦市场回调，你的投资组合就很难看了。
But if you own the bad ones and things correct, your portfolio is not gonna look very good.
所以我们面临两个问题：部署和定价。
So we've got deployment and we've got pricing.
两个挑战。
Two challenges.
还有一个挑战，不完全是投资层面的，但对我们所有工作都至关重要，那就是团队建设。
Another challenge, and it's not like purely on the investing side, but it's it's crucial to everything that we do It's firm building.
这可能是所有事情里最难的。
It's probably the most challenging of all.
你已经在Insight工作了整整二十四年，期间担任过许多不同职位，最近几年更是作为核心领导者之一推动公司发展。
Twenty four years now, you've been in many different positions within Insight, and you, for the last several years, been building the firm as one of the leaders.
从你参与建设Insight的经历来看，你觉得公司在组织建设方面最大的挑战是什么？
What are some of the biggest challenges of firm building do you think from your time building Insight?
是的。
Yeah.
我记得我刚来的时候，就那么几个人，现在呢，已经有好几百人了。
You know, we've gone from when I started, there was a couple of us, and, you know, now we have hundreds.
归根结底，一切都在人身上。
So it's all about the people.
我认为Insight的独特之处在于，我们打造了一个组织、一种文化、一个平台，能把非常优秀的年轻人培养成世界级的软件投资人，乃至顶尖的投资人。
I think the mission and uniqueness of Insight is we have created an organization, a culture, and a platform that takes very, very talented young people and turns them into world class software investors and investors in general.
我觉得，我们在规模化地做这件事上，做得特别出色，而且一直坚持到现在。
And I think that's what we do, I think, uniquely well at scale and have done that.
所以，我认为我们最大的挑战、最大的机遇，也是最核心的差异化优势，就是继续把这件事做好。
So I think our biggest challenge and our biggest opportunity and our biggest differentiation is to continue to do that well.
公司规模越来越大，我们手里的素材都很出色，尤其是那些非常优秀的年轻人。
And as you get bigger and bigger, we have amazing ingredients, but we're taking really, really talented young people.
短短两到五年，他们就成长为真正顶尖的投资人，水平绝对是世界级的。
And then literally within two to five years, we have these amazing investors and that are literally world class.
我明白。
I get you.
你们是怎么培养他们的？
How do you train them?
我可是亲眼见过，一直都很稳定。
Because I've seen it firsthand consistently.
以前我要招人，第一反应就是去Insight挖人。
Like, if I need to hire someone, I was gonna go and poach from Insight.
开个玩笑。
Just kidding.
是的。
Yeah.
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可惜啊，这种人到处都是。
Unfortunately, that's a know, they're everywhere.
对吧？
Right?
因为疫情，我好一阵没去硅谷了，但你只要走进硅谷，沿着桑希尔路走一走，进到任何一家公司，都会发现有 associate 或 analyst 是从 Insight 出来的，这样的人实在太多了，而且个个都做得特别出色。
I haven't been to Silicon Valley in a while because of COVID, but, you know, you walk through Silicon Valley and up and down the Sand Hill Road, you walk into different offices, and there inevitably is, like, associates and analysts that have come through the halls of Insight, and there's so many out there that are doing such amazing things.
但你觉得你们是怎么培训他们的？为什么你们能让他们这么优秀，别人却做不到？
But what do you think you do to train them in a way that others don't to make them so good?
我们彻底颠覆了风险投资的传统做法。
We flipped the notion of investing in venture capital on its head.
二十五年前，风险投资圈根本没什么年轻人。
So if you look back twenty five years ago, there weren't junior people in venture capital.
全是资深人士。
There's a bunch of senior people.
我当年从宾大毕业，把简历投给每一个这样的资深人士，结果全被拒了。
I mean, I got rejected by every one of those senior people, I sent them resumes from Penn.
他们根本不招新人。
They didn't take junior people.
你得有实际运营经验。
You needed operating experience.
但我们说，不对。
What we did was we said, no.
新人也有自己的位置。
There's a role for junior people.
事实上，在这个去中心化、全球化、创新飞速发展的时代，你必须招那些极其聪明、充满活力、无比热情、好奇心强的人，去发现真正有趣的机会。
In fact, in a world that's decentralized, in a world that's global, in a world that's innovating very quickly, you need to hire super, super smart, super energetic, super passionate, inquisitive people to go find really interesting stuff.
如果还靠自上而下的控制和瓶颈式决策，我们很快就会被淘汰。
And if it's command and control and on the bottleneck, we're gonna be outdated very quickly.
这正是我们文化与理念的起点，从一开始我们就这么干，后来也把它制度化了。
That is the start of kind of the culture and the idea, and that's what we did at the beginning, and we institutionalized that.
如果从整体来看学习，其实有个非常简单的框架。
If you think about learning in general, a very, very simplistic framework.
一方面，有学校里的课堂教学，另一方面，就是实际去做。
You know, at the one extreme, you have educational institutions, classroom learning, and at the other extreme, have doing.
我觉得在我们这个行业，还有大多数行业里，课堂根本没用。
I would argue in our business, and in most business, classrooms don't work.
我上过市场营销课。
I mean, I took marketing classes.
大多数商业课程跟做风投的实际工作根本对不上号。
You know, most business classes aren't practical relative to what it is to be a VC.
我在哥伦比亚大学、宾夕法尼亚大学这些地方教过风投课，这事儿真不好教。
I mean, I've taught classes at Columbia and Penn and other places on VC, and it's a hard thing to teach.
你怎么教一个年轻人理解风投到底是怎么回事？
Like, how do you teach a young person what VC is?
依我看，唯一能教他们的办法，就是让他们亲自去干。
The only way to teach them, in my opinion, is to actually give them experience.
Insight的做法就是让年轻人真刀真枪地积累经验，我们的模式就是这么做的。
The Insight approach is all about giving young people actual experience, and we do that through our model.
在Insight待一年，相当于在外面待七年，每年他们都要跟成千上万家公司打交道。
A year at Insight is kinda like seven years somewhere else, and every year, they they talk to thousands and thousands of companies.
他们要和几十家公司紧密合作。
They work with dozens and dozens of companies.
这在方式、工作量和我们对他们的信任上，都是根本性的不同。
It's just a fundamental difference in terms of our approach, the volume, and the trust that we give these people.
你怎么营造一个让年轻人敢挑战、敢问傻问题的环境？我总跟我的团队说，根本没什么傻问题，但你要多问些基础的问题，敢于质疑，敢于犯错。
How do you create a safe environment where young people feel comfortable to challenge, to ask dumb questions, which I always say to my team, there's no such thing as a dumb question, but ask more base questions, to challenge you, to make mistakes.
你怎么在不变得软弱、不流于表面温情的情况下，建立这种安全感？
How do you create that environment of safety without it being soft and cuddly?
我们这儿也是来干活的，不是来度假的。
We're here to work as well.
关键就在于信任。
It's all about trust.
这正是我们做的事，也是我们最擅长的事。
That is what we do, and that's what we do well.
这正是我们文化的精髓。
That is the core of our culture.
说到底，就是信任这个问题。
It's this notion of trust.
我小时候的经历不太一样，我总是这么看，生活中有两类东西。
And it was different growing up for me because there's two commodity I always think about it this way.
生活中有两类资源。
There's two commodities in life.
一个是钱，另一个是时间。
You have money, and you have time.
很久以前，有位睿智的创业者告诉我，你不可能两者兼得。
And I had a wise entrepreneur a long time ago say, you can't have both.
你只能拥有其一。
You have one.
你要么在时间上充裕、金钱上紧张，要么反过来。
You're either long one short the other, or short one and long the other.
在我们成长的那个年代，我们有的是时间，钱却不多，所以我拼命打工，只为赚点小钱。
And in our world, at this point, you know, when we were growing up, we had time we didn't have a lot of money, so, like, I worked a lot to make a little bit of money.
现在呢，我钱是够多了，但时间却特别紧。
Now I have a long money, and I'm short time.
所以我认为，我最宝贵的资源，也是你最宝贵的资源，其实是时间。
So the most precious commodity I have, I'd argue the most precious commodity you have is your time.
可我们平时却把时间随便往外送。
We give it away pretty freely, actually.
别人找我们帮忙，说‘不’其实特别重要，可我们偏偏不重视这一点。
When people ask us to do stuff, you know, saying no is a pretty important part of, I think, living that we actually don't respect.
要是有人开口要钱，我们肯定会说：你疯了吗？
Because if somebody asks us for money, we'd be like, are you crazy?
我怎么可能给你一百块、五百块。
I'm not giving you, you know, a $100 or $500.
可要是有人问：‘你能花五分钟跟我聊聊吗？’
But, like, if somebody asks us for, can I talk to you for five minutes?
你就说，行吧。
You're like, okay.
你的时间值多少钱？
How much is your time worth?
我们在洞察力做的，就是把时间和信任结合起来。
What we do at Insight is we take that idea of time and trust.
当分析师加入洞察力时，他们可以直接安排资深合伙人的日程。
And when an analyst joins Insight, they basically have full carte blanche control of senior partners' calendars.
我的意思是，如果一个分析师走进我的办公室，说：杰夫，我发现一家特别棒的公司。
And what I mean by that is if an analyst walks into my office and says, Jeff, I got this really cool company.
我想让你明天跟他们聊聊。
I want you to talk to them tomorrow.
那我明天就去聊。
I talk to them tomorrow.
这没什么好商量的。
It's not a debate.
这可不是商量的事。
It's not a discussion.
我们不会花一个小时讨论这个。
We don't talk about it for an hour.
也不是我跑去跟他们说，咱们去见见这家公司。
And it's not me going to them saying, let's go talk to this company.
而是他们主动来找我，说我发现了个特别有意思的东西。
It's them coming to me saying, I found this really cool thing.
你得去跟他们聊聊。
You need to talk to them.
那我们就去聊。
So then we talk to them.
你得明白，这行就是这样。
You know, you're in the business.
十次里有九次都没什么特别的，毕竟这本来就是我们的日常工作。
Nine out of 10 times, it's not very interesting because that's what we do for a living.
对吧？
Right?
我们去接触一些公司，但它们还没准备好。
We kiss frogs and, like, they're not ready yet.
用青蛙来打比方可能不太合适，因为我其实很喜欢和几乎所有公司交流。
The frog analogy is probably a bad one because I actually love talking to almost any company.
你接触的大多数公司，最后都不会变成所谓的公主，但通过和各种各样的公司聊，你能学到很多东西。
You know, the vast majority of what you talk to, they're not gonna turn into the princess, quote unquote, but you learn so much by talking about different types of frogs.
稍等一下。
Pausing one sec.
这真的管用吗？
Does that actually work?
我有很多朋友是初级员工，想让他们把公司的事安排进合伙人的日程，根本不可能。
Like, I have many friends who are associates, and just getting their companies on their partners' time and calendars is impossible.
完全不可能。
Impossible.
说到合作伙伴，公平来讲，我真不怪他们。
The part and to be fair on the partners, I don't blame them.
这招真的管用吗？
Does it actually work?
这是我们系统的核心部分。
It's the fundamental portion of our system.
对吧？
Right?
这周我打算跟几十家公司聊聊。
So I'm gonna talk to x number of companies this week.
这事肯定得办成。
Like, that's just gonna happen.
对吧？
Right?
中间可能会有些叠加，但归根结底，我的主要工作就是跟公司交流。
There is some stacking relative to that, but at the end of the day, the primary job of myself is to talk to companies.
就这样了。
That's it.
这家公司的核心来源就是我的团队。
The primary source of this company is my team.
归根结底，只要团队有什么不错的点子，我都会去跟进。
At the end of the day, if the team has something cool, I will meet with it.
这是一条不问缘由的规矩，在文化上跟其他任何地方都截然不同。
Like, that is a no questions asked policy, which culturally is very, very different than any other place you go.
这种文化从一开始就开始了。
And that starts at the beginning.
我给你举个例子。
I'll give you an example.
大概十二三年前，我在意大利度假。
I was on holiday, I don't know, twelve, thirteen years ago in Italy.
那时候孩子还小。
My kids were little at the time.
我和我妻子在一起。
I'm with my wife.
夏天的时候，我是一名分析师，已经在公司待了七个星期。
The summertime, I'm an analyst who's been with us for seven weeks in the summer.
他给我发了封邮件，说他发现了一家特别棒的公司。
He sends me an email saying, I just found the coolest company.
公司在德国杜伊斯堡。
It's in Dusseldorf, Germany.
他说，那家公司很快就要启动一个项目。
He's like, they're gonna start a process soon.
你得赶紧过去。
You need to get there.
我说，行吧。
I'm like, okay.
评估结果还不错。
Assessment, pretty good.
第二天我就直接上了飞机，放下在意大利的假期，飞到杜塞尔多夫，整天跟那家小公司泡在一起。
Literally the next day, get in a plane, leave my little holiday in Italy, fly up to Dusseldorf, spend the day with a little company.
一百天后，我们通过一家叫Trivago的投资公司注资了。
One hundred days later, we wire an investment company called Trivago.
四年之后，我们以十亿美元的价格把它卖给了Expedia。
Four years later, we sell it to Expedia for 1,000,000,000.
那一次我根本没跟那位分析师当面聊过。
That was a literally I didn't even talk to the analyst.
我们全程只是通过邮件交流。
It was an email conversation that we had.
你之所以飞过去，是因为他发现了这个机会。
You get on a plane because he found it.
这事挺有意思，你就这么去了。
It was interesting, and you go.
在Insight，这种事经常发生。
That happens a lot at Insight.
所以这讲的是信任的问题。
So it's this notion of trust.
大多数时候，电话都没这么顺利。
Most of the time, the calls aren't like that.
它们不会像Trivago那样，最后以十亿美元卖给了Expedia。
They don't turn into trivago, which sells for 1,000,000,000 to Expedia.
但只要有点进展，你就得真心享受这个过程。
But they do enough, and you have to love that process.
对吧？
Right?
你不可能连续二十多年都这么做。
You can't do this for two and a half decades.
我说的享受过程，是指你得真心喜欢跟那九个没意思的人聊天。
And what I mean by loving the process is you gotta love talking to the nine that aren't interesting.
说到底，我们大部分时间都在跟永远不会成单的事情打交道。
At the end of the day, most of our day is spent talking to things that will never turn into deals.
但你总会遇到一些在有趣的地方做着有趣事情的人。
But you meet these most interesting people in interesting places, doing interesting things.
说到底，这其实就是我谋生的方式。
And, like, at the end of the day, like, that's what I do for a living.
真是让人惊叹。
It's like, wow.
他们居然付钱让我去和这些有趣的人聊天。
They pay me to actually talk to interesting people.
我自己平时聊天都不收钱的。
I do that for free.
这说白了就是我的本职工作。
I mean, it is basically my job.
是啊。
Yeah.
我们现在不就是在做这个吗？
That's what we're doing right now.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Right.
所以如果你喜欢做这个，那就没问题了。
So if you like doing this, it's like, okay.
这就是我们谋生的方式。
That's that's what we do for a living.
采访确实让我成了更好的投资者。
Interviewing has made me a better investor for sure.
完全没错。
A 100%.
你知道，领导风格会随着时间变化。
You know, changes leadership styles over time.
现在，你已经坐在领导位置上很多年了。
And now, you know, you've been sitting in a leadership seat for many years.
这些年来，你的领导风格有什么变化？
How's your leadership style changed over the years?
你之前提到过和分析师以及其他团队成员的互动。
You mentioned interactions there with analysts and other team members.
你的领导风格具体是怎么变化的？
How has your own leadership style changed?
就像我之前说的，刚毕业那会儿，我完全是埋头苦干的状态。
Like I said earlier, I was kind of in a do mode coming out of college.
我们可以把职业生涯的前十年这么称呼。
So let's call it the first ten years of my career.
那时候一切都围绕着投资展开。
It was all about investing.
我完全凭直觉行事。
I was very instinctual.
感情很投入，说干就干，但从来没说清楚过为什么这么干。
I was very deeply felt and just did, but I didn't articulate the whys.
过去十到十五年，我的做法变得更有意识了——我会认真思考自己为什么做这些事，然后明确想达成什么目标，再一步步规划怎么实现。
And I would say over the last ten or fifteen years, I moved to a much more intentional model relative to the why do I do the things I do, and then prescriptively think through what I want to achieve, and then figure out how I'll achieve that.
这其实主要体现在我如何管理团队上。
And that's really about how I manage people.
毕竟，我当初没在公司接受过任何管理人的培训。
Cause at the end of the day, I wasn't trained at a company to manage people.
所以现在每一步都是有意识的：我们得做哪些事，才能达成想要的目标。
So it's all very intentional relative to these are the types of things we need to do to achieve the goals that we want to achieve.
这些年，我的这种意识确实从无到有，不断增强。
So there's a deep intentionality that increased over the years for sure from nothing, literally.
你觉得领导力中哪些方面最难应对？
What elements of leadership do you find most challenging?
我特别擅长和平时期的领导。
Like, I'm a great peacetime leader.
我在激励团队方面简直无可挑剔。
I'm fucking awesome at inspiration.
招个团队，站出来鼓劲儿，喊两嗓子。
Get a team, you know, stand up and beat the chest.
激励人心这套，我随时都能演得像《华尔街之狼》里那样。
You know, I can do Leo and Wolf of Wall Street all day long.
可一到要给反馈，尤其是负面的，我就完全不行。
When it comes to feedback and it's not good, I'm terrible.
我特别紧张。
I get very nervous.
说白了，就是我不喜欢这事儿。
I kind of like it's just I don't like it.
这确实是我的短板。
Put weakness there for sure.
你觉得领导力里，对你来说最难的是什么？
What do you think is really challenging for you in leadership?
其实我今天下午还得给一个人打电话，我们当时差点就录用了他，但现在得告诉他我们不招他了。
Well, I mean, I I'm actually calling a guy later today who we came down to very close to hiring in in a position, and I have to tell him that we're not hiring him.
所以情况都一样。
So it's the same.
每次要传达这个消息时，我还是会心里发紧。
I still get kind of flutters in my stomach relative to, like, delivering that news.
对吧？
Right?
但说到底，我觉得这种反应其实是人之常情，也挺健康的。
Which I actually think is human and healthy at the end of the day.
我要告诉他，他得不到这份工作了，这事儿真让人难受。
I'm gonna tell this guy, like, he's not gonna have his job, and it sucks.
如果你失去了这份同理心，那你就很难把消息说得温柔些。只要你还紧张、还感同身受，就能更好地表达，关键是要认清自己的感受。
And I think if you lose that humanity so, like, I think you can be more compassionate in delivering that message if you actually are nervous and do feel it, and you gotta understand what you're feeling.
不过，管理人确实是这份工作中最难的部分，尤其是要处理情绪，理解他们的需求。
But, yeah, I think managing people is definitely the hardest part of the job and the emotional side of it and understanding their needs.
分析类的工作反而有趣又轻松，毕竟数字不会冲你喊叫，但人会。你主动去沟通、做决定，然后反馈一回来，特别是跟人有关的，那种冲击感确实最让人吃力。
I mean, the analytical stuff is fun and easy, and, you know, the numbers don't yell back, but the people do and, like, putting yourself out there and making calls and then having that feedback come back and hit you, especially on the people stuff, is definitely the hard part.
我们刚才提到了一些有挑战性的方面，特别是那些变化。
We mentioned kind of challenging elements there and changes in particular.
我发现自己从失败中学到的东西反而最多。
I always find that actually I've learned the most from the misses that I've had.
虽然时间不长，但杰夫，我已经经历过不少了。
And I've had, despite the short time, Jeff, quite a few.
简直是堪称完美的失败。
I mean, stellar misses.
我想问问你，这个问题彻底改变了我的工作方式和我对公司的看法。
My question to you, and it's really changed my process and how I think about companies a lot.
如果让你挑一两个你最大的失败案例，会是哪些？
If you were to choose one or two of your biggest misses, what are they?
这些失败又是怎么改变你对投资的看法的？
And how did it change how you think about investing?
说到失败，我们在Insight这边会复盘每一个案例。
When I think about misses, we look at everything in Insight.
对吧？
Right?
我们基本上错失了所有那些大公司，这有点夸张，但差不离。
So we've missed basically everything that's big out there, a slight exaggeration, but not far from the truth.
作为一家公司，我们错失了全部。
As a firm, we've missed it all.
任何一家大公司，几乎都跟Insight打过交道，但我们集体都没能看清其中的趋势。
Any big company has probably been touched by Insight, and there's some failure amongst us collectively to have identified it as a trend.
如果我要自责的话，那确实是我该自责的地方——不过我尽量不这么想。
Where I beat myself up if I was gonna beat myself up, and I I try not to.
我们在摄影领域其实很早就入场了，投资了一家叫Shutterstock的公司，后来帮它上市了。
We were really early on photography, so I invested in a company called Shutterstock, which we took public.
当时我们是第一批投资人，那家公司估值才500万美元。
We were the first investors at, like, a it was a $5,000,000 company at the time.
那是门很棒的生意，图库摄影。
Fantastic business, stock photography.
当时的投资逻辑是，图片——无论是静态照片还是视频——在十五年前，也就是2005年左右，将会彻底改变世界，而互联网会让它们在人群和网络中迅速传播。
And the investment thesis was that pictures, both still, and videos, this is fifteen years ago, 2,005 ish time frame, two so seventeen years ago.
它们注定要改变世界，互联网会让这些内容在人群和网络中飞速传播。
They were gonna change the world, and the Internet was gonna enable these to move very fast across networks and people.
想到我没把这一点推到下一步，没跟上Instagram、Snapchat这些以图片和视频为核心的社交平台，我就特别懊悔。
It just pains me that I didn't take it to the logical next step relative to all these social networks, like Instagram and Snapchat and other things that are driven by video and by photos.
我提到Shutterstock的时候，是觉得实体图像的表达方式确实更胜一筹。
And it's in the Shutterstocks that I wrote it that physical representation was just such a better way.
照片这种形式，比文字更能传达情感、实现沟通，可我就是没把这条路走到底。
The notion of a photo was such a better way to express emotion and communicate than the written word, yet I didn't take it to the logical final.
回过头来看，这件事有没有改变你的做事方式？
Did this change your process when you reflect on that?
你因此调整了决策方式吗？
Have you changed the result?
有。
Yes.
当然了。
Absolutely.
我从麦肯锡出来的时候，总觉得只要拿着白板和笔，就能解决世界上任何问题。
So when I came in from McKinsey, I had this notion that a whiteboard and a pen coming out of McKinsey, I could solve any problem in the world.
对吧？
Right?
那时候我才22岁，特别自负。
I was this arrogant 22 year old.
我做了很多自上而下、靠假设驱动的投资，但后来形势明朗了，才发现根本没什么实质内容。
I made a lot of top down hypothesis driven investments, And I quickly realized when kind of the water receded that there was nothing there.
我的假设本身没错，但在时机和可行性上完全偏离了现实。
And my hypothesis, although not wrong, were massively off from a timing standpoint and a viability standpoint.
我亏了很多钱，真的是一大笔钱。
I lost a lot of money, like a ton of money.
那段时间特别痛苦，非常痛苦。
So it was a very, very painful period.
所以我很快转到了另一个极端，决定从底层做起，找那些真正有扎实业务、真实单位经济效益的公司，不再迷信那些空洞的故事。
So I quickly reverted to the opposite and say, well, let me actually start bottoms up, finding companies that are actually concretely solid with real unit economics and that are real, and I'm gonna ignore all the story.
在2002到2005年期间，我投了一些项目，表现还不错，但没有一个真正爆红。
And I made some investments, call it in the o two to o five time frame, which did pretty well, but none of them were breakout successes.
通过Shutterstock的经历，还有其他一些项目，我意识到真正需要的是在宏观视角和底层细节之间不断切换，两者都不是对或错的问题。
You know, I realized with the Shutterstock experience and some other experiences that it really needed to be this high low, top down, bottom up toggle that you need to keep doing, and that one is not right and the other is not wrong.
它们都是对的。
They're both right.
关键是要接受‘两者并存’这种思维模式。
It's the notion of being comfortable with an and.
我既是宏观导向的，也是底层驱动的，而不是非此即彼。
I am top down and I am bottom up versus one versus the other.
我现在会反复验证：一方面，我想看到公司内部确实有非常明显的增长趋势；另一方面，我也必须对宏观趋势如何推动这家公司实现巨大突破，有清晰的判断。
I iterate now a lot with this notion of, like, I wanna see some really, really good trends within the company, but at the same time, I really wanna have a strong point of view on why this macros can take this to the big, big upside.
对吧？
Right?
公司本身能帮你建立一个基本预期，但真正让你实现突破、看到巨大回报的，还是宏观趋势。
So kind of the company gets you to a base case, but the macros are what allows you to break out and really see tail.
如果你没有这些宏观因素，想实现十倍、十五倍、二十倍甚至三十倍的投资回报，那就太难了。
Because if you don't have those macros, it's it's kinda hard to to break out and have, you know, a ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty time your your money kind of investment.
我完全明白你的意思。
Totally get you.
我们来拆解几个不同的方面。
We're gonna break up a couple of different elements.
我之前跟你们团队里一位年轻成员聊过，他说你最近告诉他们，当遇到一家表现不佳的公司时，要明白这是这行的常态——在这个行业里，要想学到东西，就得亏钱。
I actually spoke to one of your younger team members, and they said that you recently told them when they had a company that was struggling, know, it's nature of our business, that actually to learn in this business, you have to lose money.
你能给我详细说说吗？在风投领域，这个学习过程是怎样的？你说‘要学习就得亏钱’，具体是什么意思？
Can you unpack that for me and that learning process in Venture and what you meant by to learn you have to lose money?
我先说一句，我特别讨厌亏钱。
Let me start with I hate losing money.
我非常非常非常讨厌亏钱。
I hate hate hate losing money.
我懂这种感觉。
I feel it.
我睡不好觉，这事儿真的会压得人喘不过气。
I don't sleep well, so like it definitely gets to you.
那我就从这儿说起吧。
So I'll start with that.
我刚创业的时候，有个大竞争对手，我就不点名了。
You know, when I started this business, we had a a large competitor, I won't name.
他们现在还在。
They're still around.
我面试他们的时候，他们有个信条，说从来没亏过钱，把这当成一种荣耀。
They had this mantra I interviewed with them that they had never lost money, and it was a badge of honor that they had never lost money in investment.
我当时觉得这太棒了。
And I thought it was great.
对吧？
Right?
那时候我就想，这太厉害了。
At the time, I was like, oh, that's amazing.
他们简直完美到没话说。
Like, how perfect are they?
但在我们这行，你完全可以下个注，可到最后，这个注能不能赢，某种程度上根本不是你能说了算的。
And the reality is in our business, like, we can set a bet, and ultimately, at the end of the day, whether or not that bet pays off, at a certain level, it's out of our control.
你能控制很多事，但事情有时候会往好的方向崩，有时候会往坏的方向崩，意外总会出现。
We control lots of things, but things break good, they break bad, things happen.
这事儿本来就很乱。
It's a messy process.
所以你得学会接受失败，活在一个允许失败的世界里。
So you have to live in a world where you're accepting of failure.
面对失败，你才会真正去审视自己的假设和信念。
In the face of that failure, you start to really look at and examine your assumptions, your truths.
一切都会好起来的。
Everything works.
你总觉得自个儿特聪明。
You just think you're a genius.
等事情出问题了，你才会开始反思自己的假设。
When things stop working, then you start questioning your assumptions.
当你开始质疑这些假设时，我觉得真正的学习才刚刚开始。
And when you start questioning your assumptions, I think that's where the real learning begins.
这方面的心理学研究其实挺多的。
There's lots of, you know, psychological writing on this.
但我觉得，真正的领悟往往藏在痛苦里。
But, you know, I think in the suffering, that is where the truth is.
我打心底里就是这么认为的。
And I do fundamentally believe that.
我觉得，从失败中学习，远比从成功中学习要容易得多。
I think it's much, much easier to learn from failure than from success.
说到这种痛苦的自我质疑，道格·莱昂在节目里说过，作为年轻投资人，你得经历一段深渊时期，那时候确实会亏钱、会挣扎。
On the sufferings in that, you know, questioning yourself, Doug Leone actually said on the show about going through the abyss as a young investor where you do, you know, lose money and struggle.
你见过那么多人经历过低谷，你觉得那些挺过来的人和没挺过来的人，在自我反思和面对低谷时，最大的区别是什么？
What for you, having seen many go through the abyss, I'm sure, what are the differences in those that make it and those that don't in terms of how they approach questioning themselves and approach their experience in the abyss.
我觉得关键在于要学习，但别陷在里面出不来。
You know, I think the whole point is you need to learn but not dwell.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得这在生活的任何方面都适用。
And I think that's true in any part of life.
我们当然要从过去吸取教训，但不能沉溺其中，更不能被过去淹没。
I mean, I think we need to learn from our past but not dwell in our past and not drown in our past.
对吧？
Right?
我们活在当下，也可以为未来做打算。
And we can live in our present, and we can plan for the future.
别老想着过去的事了。
Well, let's not think about the past.
我觉得这种想法不对。
I think that's wrong.
我们刚做了一大堆投资。
We just did a whole bunch of investments.
咱们得从中学点东西。
Let's learn from them.
对吧？
Right?
这本来就是关键所在。
Like, that's the whole point.
我们投入了精力、时间和金钱。
We spent energy, time, and money.
我们已经积累了一整套经验。
Like, we had this body of work.
要从这些经验里学习，但别陷在里面出不来，更别被它们拖垮了。
Let's learn from that body of work, but let's not dwell in that body of work and drown in that body of Yeah.
我亏钱的次数多了去了。
I lost money lots of times.
我为此感到骄傲吗？
Am I proud of it?
我不觉得骄傲，但说到底，也不觉得丢人。
I'm not proud of it, but at the end of the day, not ashamed of it either.
很多次亏损反而让我后来做了更好的投资。
A lot of those allowed me to do better things.
我投过不少公司，最后都亏了，但正是这些经历让我找到了下一个赚大钱的机会。
I invested in a lot of companies where I lost money, and ultimately, those companies led me to another investment where I made a lot of money.
要是没投那些第一家，我根本不会有勇气、信心和经验去投下一家。
And if I didn't invest in the first company, I would've never had the courage and the conviction and learnings to invest the next company.
现实是，如果你老是亏钱，那根本撑不下去。
Now the reality is, like, if you lose money way too often, you won't be in business.
亏钱到一定程度算是一种荣誉，但确实很痛。我觉得，只要在这行干得久、做的项目够多，这种问题和挑战迟早都会遇到。
You know, it's a badge of honor to a point, but it's a painful one and one that I think, again, if you're in this business for long enough and you do enough deals, you're gonna have those problems and challenges.
关键是怎么把这些经历用在建设性的方式上，当作学习的机会，而不是被它们压垮。
And the key is how do you use them constructively and from a learning standpoint versus have them, you know, drown you.
不过我想转到我最喜欢的一个环节，来个快速问答。
I do wanna move into my favorite though, which is a quick fire round.
我来说一句简短的话，杰夫，你马上说出你的第一反应。
So I say a short statement, Jeff, and you give me your immediate thoughts.
这样可以吗？
Does that sound okay?
听起来太棒了。
That sounds fantastic.
好。
Okay.
那你最喜欢的书是哪一本？为什么？
So what's the favorite book and why?
我是个特别爱读书的人。
So I huge reader.
这个问题，就像是问我觉得哪个投资组合公司最棒，或者更偏爱哪个孩子一样。
And that question, by the is like asking, you know, what's my favorite portfolio company or which kid do I like better?
那我挑几个说说吧。
So I'm gonna name a couple.
年纪最大的那个。
The eldest.
你这么说也行。
You can say that.
我爱我的每一个孩子。
I love all my children.
我们谈的是苦难。
We're talking suffering.
我特别喜欢弗兰克尔的《活出生命的意义》。
I love A Man's Search For Meaning by Frankel.
每隔几年我就会重读一遍。
I read it every couple years.
这本书真的太棒了。
It's just a spectacular book.
我们公司有个读书会。
We have a book club at work.
这是让大家聚在一起的好方式。
It's one of the ways to bring people together.
我觉得在小说类里，我们读得最好的是《Pachinko》。
I think the best book we read in that on the fiction side was Pachinko.
如果你还没读过，这真是一部绝佳的小说。
If you haven't read it, it's just a spectacular novel.
强烈推荐。
Highly recommend it.
我刚在得新冠的时候读了《活出生命的意义》。
I literally just read Man's Search For Meaning when I had COVID.
所以最近读这本书的感觉特别震撼。
So it's the most recent read about that book was astounding.
你最大的优点和缺点分别是什么？
What's your biggest strength and what's your biggest weakness?
我很想知道，你的说法是不是和你伴侣说的一致。
I'm intrigued if it aligns to what your partner said.
你最大的优点和缺点有哪些？
What are your biggest strengths and your biggest weaknesses?
我觉得我最大的优点是善于倾听，还有直觉敏锐。
You know, think active listening would be my biggest strength and deep instincts.
我凭直觉反应特别快。
So I'm very, very quick instinctually.
那缺点呢？
Biggest weakness?
我确实容易对细节感到厌烦。
I mean, I get bored with details.
如果让我做一线细节管理的工作，我肯定干不好。
So if I was like a frontline detail manager, it wouldn't be good.
对你来说，积极倾听意味着什么？
What does active listening mean to you?
就是能忍受沉默，在会议室里愿意什么都不说，只是静静地吸收和倾听，包括语言和非语言的信号。
Being okay with silence, sitting in a boardroom willing to say nothing and just absorb and listen, verbal, nonverbal communication.
我觉得视频会议最大的问题在于，你很难完全捕捉到那些微妙的情绪。
I mean, I think the biggest challenge with Zoom is that you can't absorb all those feelings as well.
我觉得我们作为董事会成员和投资人，职责是倾听和提供支持，而不是一味发言。
You know, I think our job as board members and investors is to listen and serve versus talk.
所以我平时话不多，尽管这次采访看起来好像我说了很多。
So I don't talk that much despite, you know, this interview.
别担心。
Don't worry.
我这不也在不断问你问题嘛。
I'm peppering you with questions as well.
你今天在英赛克的工作中，最难的部分是什么？
The hardest element of your role with Insight today.
绝对是管理人的问题。
Definitely managing people.
我们怎么让他们保持干劲？
How do we keep them motivated?
我们怎么让他们保持热情？
How do we keep them excited?
我们怎么保证卓越的表现？
How do we ensure excellence?
我们怎么才能赢？
How do we win?
我们每天醒来都充满期待。
We wake up every day looking forward.
2021年已经过去了。
So '21 is over.
我们不会坐在这儿一味地回味2021年。
We're not gonna sit here and slap hands around '21.
我们一直在想，怎么让2022年比2021年更好？
We're like, how do we make '22 better than '21?
怎么让2023年比2022年更上一层楼？
How do we make '23 better than '22?
我们这儿的文化从不因为赢了就庆祝。
This is not a culture where we celebrate victories.
输了我们也不会沉溺其中，但也不会坐在这儿庆祝胜利，我们只关心怎么站起来，重新再来。
We don't wallow in the loss either, but we're not sitting here celebrating the victories, and it's all about how do we get up and do it again.
你经常给别人什么建议，但自己却很难做到？
What piece of advice do you often give but find hard to follow yourself?
我觉得就是我们刚才说的那些。
I think it's just what we talked about.
关键是怎么别陷在过去的错误里，别一直纠结、出不来。
I think it's this notion of how do you not wallow and drown and spend too much time on the past and your mistakes.
这确实最难，也是我们事业和生活中最大的挑战。
I think it's the hardest thing, I think it's the challenge for our business and for life.
我们该怎么活在当下，同时面向未来？
How do we live now and look forward?
杰夫，你最想改变风投界的哪一点？
What would you most like to change about the world of Venture, Jeff?
我觉得是我们团队的构成。
I would say the composition of what we look like.
说实话，我们的多样性还远远不够。
You know, I I think we're not nearly diverse enough.
说到具体的人，我希望风险投资人整体上能多听少说。
And then I think specifically to people, what I would say is I wish VCs in general listened more and talked less.
我们的任务是服务创业者，而不是让他们觉得我们有多厉害。
And I think our job with that is to serve, not impress entrepreneurs.
你觉得现在资本已经变成一种商品了吗？我是不是得把钱包装得漂亮一点，才能卖得更好、更有吸引力？
Do you not think we have a capital as a commodity situation today where I have to wrap my cash in beautiful wrapping because it sells better and it's more attractive?
就像萨卡在节目里说的，我确实很有信心。
You know, I As Saka said on the show, like, yeah, I'm I'm confident.
我会说自己有多厉害，因为得让创业者相信我确实很出色。
I'd say how brilliant I am because I need to sell how good I am to founders.
不然他们怎么知道呢？
Otherwise, how do they know?
我觉得这中间得把握好一个平衡。
I mean, I I think it's a fine balance.
对吧？
Right?
说到底，创业者的路本来就是孤独的。
At the end of the day, the founder journey is a lonely journey.
对吧？
Right?
这其实是根本所在。
I mean, that's the fundamental.
如果你相信资本是可以区分的，那他们需要的是一位搭档。
And if you believe that capital can be differentiated, they want a copilot.
他们希望有个人陪在身边，能深入帮他们解决最棘手的问题。
They want somebody in the plane with them that is going to help them deeply with their most complicated problems.
要做到这一点，唯一的方法就是认真倾听，真正理解他们的处境，然后在关键时刻，基于信任给出建议，帮他们在关键时刻做出选择。
The only way to do that is to listen deeply, understand what they have, and then at the right times, proffer up advice based on trust that can help them turn left or turn right when those big moments happen.
杰夫，最后一个问题是给你的。
Final one for you, Jeff.
最近公开宣布的投资是哪一个？为什么让你这么兴奋？
What's the most recent publicly announced investment, and why did you get so excited?
我们做了不少投资。
We do lots of investments.
最近的一笔可能是家叫Triangle的公司，是一家欧洲的通用收件箱企业，表现非常出色。
The most recent one is probably a company called Triangle, which is universal inbox, company in Europe doing spectacularly well.
这个问题我觉得大家都遇到过。
It's a problem that I think we all have.
我们该怎么管理沟通中的多重身份？
How do we manage multiple personas in communication?
这是一个非常厉害的效率工具，能帮中小企业解决一些最头疼的问题。
So it's a massively cool productivity tool that helps small businesses with some of their biggest problems.
杰夫，正如我之前说的，我早就想看看这个了。
Jeff, as I said, I've wanted to see this one for a long time.
非常感谢你今天抽出时间，这真是一次特别愉快的对话。
I can't thank you enough for giving up the time today, and this has been so much fun.
也谢谢你允许我问了这么多关于育儿的深入问题。
Also thank you for letting me ask such in-depth questions on parenting.
说得真好。
That was great.
太棒了。
Fantastic.
确实很有意思。
Fun stuff for sure.
谢谢。
Thank you.
真的特别开心。
Really been a a blast.
我的意思是，如果你没看出来，我真的很喜欢这样。
I mean, if you couldn't tell, I just love that.
真是个很棒的人。
What a great dude.
这场对话太精彩了。
What a great discussion.
完全没剧本。
Totally unscripted.
我一向喜欢这样聊。
Always the way that I like to do it.
杰夫，你愿意这么坦诚地回答我的问题，真的太了不起了。
Jeff, you are a hero for being so open and accommodating to my questions.
如果你还想看我们更多幕后内容，当然可以。
If you'd like to see more from us behind the scenes, of course, you can.
你可以访问 The20minutevc.com 或 20vc.com。
The20minutevc.com or 20vc.com.
但在结束今天的内容之前，我要提一下，哈佛管理公司一直在寻找下一代优秀的投资者和创业者。
But before we leave you today, a Harvard management company is constantly seeking out the next generation of great investors and entrepreneurs.
哈佛管理公司已经为哈佛大学的捐赠基金运作了近五十年，也是最早进入风险投资领域的机构投资者之一。
HMC has managed Harvard University's endowment for nearly fifty years and was one of the first institutional investors in Venture Capital.
他们丰富的经验和长期投资视角，使他们成为帮助改变世界的想法走向可行与成功理想的合作方。
Their experience and long term investment horizon makes them ideal partners to get world changing ideas on a path to viability and success.
他们真正以合作伙伴的身份行事，提供富有洞见的建议，助力管理者取得成功。
They work as a true partner, providing insightful perspectives to help managers succeed.
我有幸与哈佛管理公司的团队合作，可以说他们不仅是出色的合作伙伴，更是非常睿智的投资者。
I have had the pleasure of working with the HMC team and can say that they're truly exceptional partners, people and incredibly savvy investors.
无论你是在设立第一个基金，还是第五个基金，哈佛管理公司都欢迎与成长型和成熟的管理团队合作。
Whether you are launching your first fund or your fifth, HMC welcomes the opportunity to partner with both developing and established managers.
如果你有个想法想跟他们分享，现在就是机会。
Have an idea you want to share with the team?
直接发到 venturehmc@harvard.edu。
Just send it to venturehmc.
Harvard dot edu。
Harvard dot edu.
说到HMC的卓越合作伙伴，Mercury正在为初创企业打造全方位的银行服务。
And speaking of amazing partners with HMC there, Mercury is building full stack banking for startups.
无论你在哪儿，花不到十分钟就能申请到FDIC保险的银行账户、实体和虚拟借记卡、境内外转账，还能无缝对接Gusto、Stripe、QuickBooks、Plaid，以及你创业用到的几乎所有其他工具。
Apply in under ten minutes from anywhere for FDIC insured bank accounts, physical and virtual debit cards, domestic and international wires, and integrations with Gusto, Stripe, QuickBooks, Plaid, and basically every other tool your startup uses.
他们还提供一些独特功能，比如API接口、自定义团队管理，以及新推出的Mercury Treasury——专为高增长初创企业设计的现金管理产品。
They also offer unusual features like API access, custom team management, and their newly launched Mercury Treasury, a cash management product for high growth startups.
他们甚至会通过Mercury Raise计划帮你搭建创业生态，把你引荐给硅谷顶尖的投资人。
They'll even help you build your startup with Mercury Raise, a program to connect you to Silicon Valley's top investors.
赶紧去 mercury.com/signup 申请吧。
Head over to mercury.com forward slash sign up to apply.
最后，还有Sprig。
And finally, Sprig.
用户研究员希望产品团队能基于用户洞察打造出色体验，而产品团队则想快速上线，不用等研究结果。
User researchers want their product teams to build amazing experiences that are informed by user insights, and product teams wanna ship products quickly without having to wait for research.
有了 Sprig，两边都能如愿以偿。
With Sprig, both teams can get their own way.
Sprig 是一个用户研究平台，让你能在产品内部或现有用户流程中，提出简短直接的问题。
Sprig is a user research platform that lets you ask bite sized questions within your product or existing user journeys.
Dropbox、Square、Opendoor 和 Loom 等公司都在用 Sprig 的内嵌微调查和概念测试，来了解用户，跟上现代软件开发的速度，确保每个产品决策都有用户依据。
Companies like Dropbox, Square, Opendoor and Loom all use Sprig's in product micro surveys and concept tests to understand their customers and the pace of modern software development so they can make every product decision a customer informed product decision.
如果你希望在发布产品的速度下获取丰富的用户洞察，那就去 sprig.com 试试吧。
If you want to obtain rich insights from users at the pace you ship products, then give Sprig a try by visiting sprig.com.
再次提醒，就是 sprig.com，sprig.com。
Again, that's sprig.com sprig.com.
一如既往，非常感谢你们的支持，我已经迫不及待要为大家带来本周三和周五的精彩节目了。
As always I so appreciate all your support and I cannot wait to bring a fantastic episode this coming Wednesday and Friday.
来吧！
Bring it on!
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