197. 克里斯·布姆斯特德：六届奥林匹亚先生的肽类补充方案、补剂指南与恢复策略

健美并不是一项健康的运动。你会让身体承受

Bodybuilding is not a healthy sport. There's a

极大的负担。使用合成代谢类固醇、减重、增肌，这些都对器官造成巨大压力。但绝大多数健美运动员认为这种交换是值得的。我愿意透支未来换取当下的成就。

lot you put your body through. Anabolic steroid use, cutting weight, bulking up weight. This is hard on your organs. The vast majority of bodybuilders say that exchange is worth it. I'm willing to borrow from my future for the gain today.

在我首次赢得奥林匹亚先生之前，我曾重病一场。身体出现严重炎症反应。即便当时的我，肯定也对自己所作所为懵懂无知，但我知道施加给身体的压力越大，反噬就会越严重。

Before I ever won an Olympia, I got really sick. I had this insane amount of inflammation. Even myself, I'm sure I was still ignorant to what I was doing at the time, but I knew that the more stress I would put on my body, the worse it would push me back.

你为自己愿意承担的风险设置了护栏，却依然多次登顶世界之巅。

You put guardrails on the amount of risk that you were willing to take, but you still achieved the top spot in the world multiple times.

当你掌握了正确姿势、摄入足够蛋白质并刻苦训练后，关于健美能学的东西其实很有限。但十年如一日坚持这些，才是真正的难点所在。

There's only so much you can really learn about bodybuilding once you have good form, you get your protein in, and you train hard. But to do that every day for ten years, that's what makes it hard.

知道吗？我原以为你会列出一长串补剂清单，结果你基本就是说营养摄入精准。我服用肌酸和蛋白粉。如今最顶尖的长寿科学与抗衰老专家们的研究最终也回归了这个原点。

You know, I was expecting you to give this laundry list of supplements, and you basically said, I'd had my nutrition dialed in. I was taking creatine and protein powders. The greatest longevity science and antiaging experts now have come full circle.

有时候你必须回归本质：刻苦训练、合理饮食，

Sometimes you gotta boil it back to just training hard, eating right,

并持之以恒。多数人只想欣赏风景，却不愿攀登。你是如何将这种成为最佳健美运动员的狭隘视野，控制在生活其他领域之外的？

and doing consistently. Lots of people wanna enjoy the view, but they don't want the climb. How did you keep that very myopic view of being the best bodybuilder from spilling over into every other aspect of your life?

这是个很好的问题。我的答案非常微妙，而且老实说，很大程度上可能像是

It's a great question. And I mean the very nuanced answer, and it's the honest answer is a lot of it is probably like

终极人类。

Ultimate Human.

大家好，欢迎回到终极人类播客。我是主持人，人类生物学家Gary Breca，我们将深入探讨抗衰老、生物黑客、长寿以及介于两者之间的一切话题。如你所知，我心目中的英雄是各行各业的推动者、变革者，无论是博士、医学博士、生物黑客、研究人员，还是那些解决了生活中重大问题的人。而今天的嘉宾也不例外——六届奥林匹亚先生健体冠军。

Hey guys, welcome back to the ultimate human podcast. I'm your host, human biologist, Gary Breca, where we go down the road of everything, anti aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. As you know, my heroes are the movers, the shakers, the game changers in all forms of industry, whether they're PhDs, MDs, biohackers, researchers, or just people have solved a major problem in their life. And today's guest is no stranger to that six time Mr. Olympia champion in the physique division.

你们都知道他是谁。很多人一直期待这期播客。欢迎来到播客，Chris Bumstead。

You know who he is. A lot of you have been anticipating this podcast. Welcome to the podcast, Chris Bumstead.

谢谢，先生。很荣幸。能上这个节目真是荣幸。

Thank you, sir. An honor. It's an honor to be on here.

能邀请到你是我的荣幸

It's an honor to be

太紧张了。考虑到你之前的嘉宾阵容。但真的吗？很高兴能来这里

so intimidated. Given the guests you've had. But Really? Excited to be on here

聊聊我的新嘉宾

talking about my new guest

我并不可怕。

is I'm not intimidating.

他们...他们... 你也是。

They're they're Well, you too.

和你交谈很兴奋。哦，我觉得应该由我来采访你，这样我能学到些东西

You're exciting to talk to. Oh, that's I feel like I need to be the one interviewing you so I can learn a little

互相交流。懂我意思吗？

bit about go back and forth. You know?

实际上我们喜欢我所有的播客嘉宾，

We actually like all my podcast guests,

你知道，当我们提前到达这里，在正式播客前先录了一半内容时，我就想我们应该在节目里聊聊这个。但你知道吗，我们之前讨论的一个话题——这也是我播客里反复出现的主题——我特别想和你深入探讨的是，我觉得那些最具影响力、最鼓舞人心、充满激情且目标明确的人，往往是那些解决了自己人生重大难题的人。我们在播客前聊到的一点是：短暂辉煌并不让我觉得惊艳，真正令我钦佩的是能够长期保持卓越。

you know, when we get here early, run half the podcast before the podcast. I'm like, we should talk about this on the pod. But, you know, one of the things we talked about, which is a common theme on my podcast, and I really wanna unpack this a little bit with you, is that I feel like the most impactful people, like the most inspiring, passionate, purpose driven people are people that solve the major problem in their life. And one of the things we talked about before the podcast was, you know, it's not so impressive to me to be like great ones. It's impressive to me to be really great over a long period of time.

而你占据健美界榜首超过五年，这是相当长的时间，意味着你攻克了无数难关。我说的难关，可能包括内心魔障和外界压力。希望你能展开讲讲，向我的听众们揭示CBUM的思维模式——当你已站在巅峰，取得如此惊人成就时，是什么内在力量阻止你说'拿了奖杯就收工'？就像很多人...

And you held the number one spot in bodybuilding for more than half a decade, which is a long period of time, which means you solved a lot of problems. And by problems, I mean, probably internal demons and external forces. And I would love if you would unpack that a little bit and just talk to my audience about, let them into the mindset of CBUM, you know, when you're already at the top of your game and you've achieved this astounding level of success, what was it inside you that didn't make you just say, I'm gonna take the award and go home. I did it. Like, oh, you know,

很多人昙花一现就

lot of people run one traffic they went the

完成一次科纳铁人赛后，他们觉得'有这块奖牌就够了'。

one Kona Ironman in their life. They're like, there's the plaque.

这是个好问题。答案其实很微妙——老实说，很大程度可能归功于优秀的基因让我做对事，运气让我处在正确位置，但坦白讲也源于我的很多缺陷、心魔和不安全感，我试图用某种程度的成功来填补。我发现很多取得高度成就的人，最初可能都带着某种补偿心理。

That's it. It's a great question. And I mean, the very nuanced answer in this. The honest answer is a lot of it is probably, like, great genes set up to do the right thing, a lot of luck set up in the right place, and potentially, honestly, a lot of faults or demons and insecurities of mine that I was trying to use some level of success to seek after. You know, I find a lot of people who reach a high level of success are kind of potentially compensating at the beginning.

当我开始意识到自己或许是在寻求归属感或认同时，我的旅程就超越了塑造更好身材，转向了完善自我。如何通过突破极限的挑战，发现未知的自我，在精神、心灵、情感和人际关系方面与体能进步同步成长？正是这种每年如同英雄征程般的循环——筹备重大时刻时总会遭遇混乱与挫折，必须挖掘内在力量突破困境——让我持续发现新的自我认知，明白自己的需求与最佳运作方式。

And when I started to feel like maybe I was seeking a sense of belonging or validation, my journey began to become more than just, like, becoming a better body, but a better self. How can I use the challenge pushing myself to new limits to discover parts about myself I didn't know before and become a better version of myself and to be able to grow mentally, spiritually, emotionally, relationally along this physical journey? And I think that's what consistently drove me is every year was, like, a hero's journey where, like, you're working up to this huge moment and inevitably there's this, like, chaos and challenge that comes in the way where you feel defeat and you need to find something inside of yourself to get through that, to get to this success. And then it repeats every year, every year. So I was continuously finding new pieces of myself I didn't know before of what I needed and how I operated best.

我的蜕变始于健康危机。2018年还没获得奥林匹亚冠军时，我得了怪病。肾脏问题？是肾脏自体免疫疾病。

And my journey started with something very health related. In 2018, before I ever won an Olympia, I got really sick And I didn't know what was going on. Kidneys? It was autoimmune to my kidneys. Yeah.

嗯，明白了。

Mhmm. Okay.

当时我全身严重炎症水肿，双腿一天增重15磅，膝盖脚踝都消失了——完全肿得看不出形状，根本不知道怎么回事。

So I had this insane amount of inflammation, edema in my legs. Like, I put on, like, 15 pounds in a day. And I had, like, no knee, no ankle. It was just inflamed. Didn't know what was going on.

我当时被送进医院，上了袢利尿剂、静脉利尿剂，用尽一切办法就为了排出体内积水。医生们也不清楚病因。虽然我现在三言两语带过，但那时我才22岁，真的被吓坏了。完全不知道接下来会发生什么。

I was put in the hospital, put on loop diuretics, IV diuretics, all stuff just to get the water off. They didn't know what was going on. And it was a I talked through the story quick now, but in the moment, was like 22 years old, terrified from my life at the time. Yeah. Not knowing what was gonna go on.

你当时在参加健美比赛。

You were bodybuilding then.

对，正处在备赛期。距离奥林匹亚大赛只剩四周。就在这个节骨眼上。

Yeah. Was in the middle of prep. I was four weeks out of the Olympia Woah. At this point. Yeah.

那可以说是我人生中最深感无力的时刻之一，完全束手无策。有位叫理查德·罗尔的牧师说过，每个男人都会经历这种无力感的旅程，这反而会让人学会谦卑，并对余生充满感恩——

So it was, like, the biggest one of the biggest moments of feeling powerless, just completely powerless. Yeah. And there's a pastor, I believe, this, Richard Rohr, who talks about, like, every man experiencing a journey of powerlessness, which leads to a sense of, like, just humility and gratitude for the rest of your

因为你意识到自己

life because you realize you're

并非全能。虽然能掌控很多事，但总有超出能力范围的部分。我认为正是这段经历，让我后来每次取得成功时都明白：是的，我做到了这些，但能走到这里离不开诸多可控因素，同样也可能因这些因素失去一切。

not fully in control. There's so much you can do, but there's always a level beyond what you're capable of. Mhmm. So I think my journey starting with that really led to every moment of success and everything that I did win. It was like, yes, I did this, but there's so much under my control that got me here, and there's so much under my control that could take me from here.

所以这让我整个职业生涯都保持着谦逊。同时也让我意识到必须改变处事方式——我生病是有原因的，毕竟健美根本算不上健康运动，身体要承受太多折磨。

So it kept me with a sense of humility Yeah. Throughout my entire journey. And also what led to that was me knowing I need to approach things differently. Like, there was a reason I got sick, and bodybuilding is not a healthy sport at all. There's a lot you put your body through.

我开始需要管理最初看似只是身体的问题。后来发现根源不在免疫力，而是长期压力、皮质醇和心理因素，那些积压在生活中的情绪导致身体无法有效调节和康复。这就是我旅程的起点，之后每年我都在思考如何成长进步。

So me needing to manage, a, what started to what felt like it was just physical health. And then what I was learning, because it was not an immune thing, was a lot of stress, cortisol, mental stuff, stuff that I held into my life that was causing some kind of reaction in my body to not feel regulated and heal efficiently. So Mhmm. That was kinda how my journey started. And then every year from there, was like, how can I just grow and become better?

我的人生使命就是成为内外兼修的最佳版本。要知道，健美运动能学的东西有限——掌握正确姿势、摄入足够蛋白质、刻苦训练之后呢？剩下的就是心智较量，是让你日复一日坚持的动力。

And my mission in life was to become the best version of myself internally and externally. And, you know, there's only so much you can really learn about bodybuilding once you have good form, you get your protein in, you train hard. What's beyond that? It's the mind. It's what's making you show up consistently.

巅峰期非赛季或备赛期时，随便谁跟着我练一天都能轻松完成所有训练。难的是把这种强度坚持十年——这才是真正的挑战。

Yeah. Like someone could show up in my peak off season or in the peak of my prep and follow me for a day and do everything I did easily. It's not that hard. But to do that every day for ten years, that's what makes it hard. So that's Yeah.

这变成了一场心理博弈，你得弄清楚是什么在驱动你，如果这些动力消退，原因何在？那些阻碍你前进的因素，是自我怀疑吗？还是诸如自我设限的信念之类的东西。而我的旅程更多是一段漫长的自我发现之旅。

It becomes a mental game and, you know, you gotta figure out the things that are driving you, and if those fade, why do they fade? The The things that are holding you back, is it self doubt? Something to, like, minimizing beliefs, whatever it may be. And my journey was just this long journey of self discovery more than anything.

我认为从我的视角看，在健美这类事情上尤其如此。嗯。因为我猜想——虽然我从未当过健美运动员——但我觉得这是项非常孤独的运动。是的。毕竟这不是团队运动。

I think it's especially true from my perspective in something like bodybuilding. Mhmm. Because I would imagine and I've never been a bodybuilder, but I'm I would imagine that it's a very lonely sport. Yeah. You know, because it's not a team sport.

这是项高度个人化的运动。除了教练等人督促你之外，你并没有团队支持。你不是为别人而练，是为自己而练。我觉得人生大部分时候都是场个人竞技，正如人们所说，领头的总是孤独的。

It's a very individual sport. So you don't have a team maybe other than your trainers and stuff holding you accountable. You're not showing up for other people. You're showing up for yourself. And I think most of life is a very individual sport, you know, and and they say like, it's very lonely at the head of the herd.

对吧？你唯一能做的就是享受这

Right? The, All you get to do is enjoy the

风景。嗯。

view. Mhmm.

对吧？很多人想欣赏风景，却不愿攀登。独自完成时，你在和谁竞争？是和自己较劲吗？不断想着'我要成为更好的自己'？

Right? And and, you know, lots of people wanna enjoy the view, but they don't want the climb. And to do it on your own by yourself, who are you competing against? Like, were you competing against yourself? Were you just constantly like, I wanna be a better version of myself?

你是如何避免将'成为最佳健美运动员'这种狭隘目标渗透到生活其他方面的？因为我在准备这次采访时发现，很多健美运动员实际上毁掉了运动之外的人生。有人提到他们难以相处、自我中心、婚姻关系紧张。而你却成功规避了这些。

And how did you keep that very myopic view of being the best bodybuilder from spilling over into every other aspect of your life. Because, you know, as I went down the rabbit hole preparing for this interview, there are a lot of bodybuilders that have actually ruined the- their lives outside of the sport. Yeah. People talk about how difficult they were to get along with, how self centered they were, how they were tough in their marriage. You somehow been able to navigate all of that.

我觉得你是个非常真诚谦逊的人，对此我深表敬意。完全没有傲慢之气。但在追求极致自我的过程中，你是如何保持生活平衡的？

I mean, I find you to be a very genuine, humble human being. I have the deepest level of respect for that. Completely devoid of arrogance. But you in this pursuit to be the best version of yourself, how did you keep the rest of your life in balance?

说实话，我以前确实不太好相处。当人沉浸在那个高度时...有时候我妻子会

I mean, I'm definitely wasn't always the easiest to deal with, for sure. You know, when you're anyone's died in that high. There's moments where my wife would

在草地上翻白眼。她...他

be rolling her eyes in the grass. She's he's

不是她总说他那么好相处。

not She that said he's so easy to deal with all the time.

我妻子也这样。人们总是说，

My wife does the same thing. People are like,

哦，他真聪明。你真幸运。她就会说，哇。

oh, he's so smart. You're so lucky. She's like, wow.

她在后面附和，是啊，当然。

She's in the background like, yeah, sure.

不。是的。我是说，我首先能归因于的就是我养育家庭的方式。嗯。我有一个我深爱的了不起的家庭，他们教会我，要坚持做真实的自己，最重要的是尊重每一个人，嗯。

No. Yeah. I mean, the first thing I could attribute to was just the way I was raising my family. Mhmm. I have an incredible family who I love very much, and they taught me, like, just good morals of staying true to, like, who you are and what's most important is treating everyone, like, with respect and Mhmm.

平等友善。我想我只是对自己有这样的认识，无论我多么努力工作，这并没有让我比别人更特别。这始终更像是我与自己的较量。而健美是一项非常自我中心的运动。非常虚荣。

Equal kindness. And I guess just I had this idea of myself where, like, as hard as I was working, it didn't make me any more special than anyone else. And it always was really like a me versus me kind of thing. And bodybuilding is a very egocentric sport. It's very vain.

它只是，非常激烈。而且几乎有一种非常准确的刻板印象，描述人们如何试图比下一个人更好，与这个人比较。这是一项比较运动。它是主观的。你是在表演。

It's just, like, intense. And there's, like, almost like a stereotype that's very accurate of the way people are, like, trying to be beat better than the next guy comparing to this guy. It's a comparison sport. It's subjective. You're being the pageantry.

对。

Right.

你在舞台上被评判，你知道吗？我认为在我之前的许多健美运动员，他们就像，你必须站在舞台上。你必须踏上舞台。你要打败这个人。你看到他，你知道你比他强，就要那样。

You're on stage being judged, you know? And I think a lot of bodybuilders before me, they were like, you gotta be on stage. You gotta be stepping on the stage. You're gonna beat this guy. You see him, you know you're better than him, be like that.

当我年轻的时候，我想，好吧，这就是我必须成为的样子才能赢。但这从未让我感觉我在变得更好。如果说有什么影响，那就是让我压力山大。它让我焦虑，因为我在和别人比较，试图成为他们的样子。但特别是在健美这种非常主观的运动中，你对评委的决定毫无控制权。

And when I was young, I was like, okay, that's how I have to be to win. But it never made it never drove it didn't make me feel like I was getting better. If anything, it stressed me out. It made me anxious because I was comparing myself to others and, like, trying to be what they were. But especially in bodybuilding, where it is so subjective, you have no control of what the judges do.

所以如果你试图击败他们或做评委所做的事，而评委又改变了他们的评判标准，那你只会因为没按自己意愿行事而懊恼。不如纯粹为自己而练，塑造你引以为豪、认为最完美的体型，成为最好的自己。除非这本身就是你的目标，否则无法持续进步。因为如果我的目标是打败下一个人，当我击败他时，我就完成了。那时我的动力就消失了。

So if you're trying to beat them or do what the judges do and then the judges switch what they want, then you're just pissed because you didn't do what you want. You might as well just be doing it for yourself, creating the body that you are proud of, that you think is the best, and being the best version of yourself. And there's no way to continuously improve unless that's your goal. Because if I'm trying to beat the next guy, when I beat him, I'm done. Then my motivation is gone.

但如果我的目标只是成为最好的自己，那就是无限的。这只是你热爱的旅程中持续的进步。我想说的是，正如那句广为流传的话：热爱行走的人比热爱目的地的人走得更远。你知道，我热爱健美。我不仅仅喜欢锻炼、节食和摄入400克蛋白质。

But if my goal is just best version of myself, that's limitless. It's just continuous progress of the journey that you love. And I think I mean, the most of that super popular saying, the man who loves walking walks farther than the man who loves a destination. You know, I I love bodybuilding. And I didn't just love working out and starving myself and eating 400 grams of protein.

对，没错。你不可能爱上那种过程。

Right. Yeah. That you can't fall in love with that.

正是。我爱的是它带来的直接成果。你知道，生活中很少有事情能让你如此掌控——投入X分努力就会得到X分回报。健身房就是其中之一。生意场上可没这种规律。

Exactly. I loved seeing the direct results that came from it. You know, like there's few things in life that you have so much control over where you've put x amount of effort in, you'll get x amount of result. The gym is one of the things. You know, business doesn't work.

人际关系也不遵循这种法则。你无法预知结果。但当你正确饮食、刻苦训练时，成果就会显现。当你把自己置于困境时，就不得不从心理上成长。我热爱健美的这个方面。

Relationship doesn't work like that. You don't know what's coming from it. But when you eat when you eat right and you train hard, you get the result. And when you put yourself in difficult situations, you're forced to be in a place to grow mentally. And I love that aspect of bodybuilding.

所以有很多次我产生自我怀疑，不想去健身房锻炼，不想刻苦训练。但我知道自己多么渴望最终成果，也明白当坚持下来时，它会让我成为怎样的人。所以我不断自我鞭策。每年我都——应该说很幸运——保持着只关注眼前目标的心态。

So there were times where I didn't necessarily there were plenty of times where I had self doubt, where I didn't wanna show up to the gym and work out. I didn't wanna train hard, but I knew how much I loved the end result. And I knew when I consistently did it, the person it made me become. So I continued to push myself more and more. And every year it was really, you know, I was, I guess, blessed to have a mindset where I was just looking at what was right in front of me.

是啊。我经历过许多年的挫折，比如受伤，比如奥林匹亚大赛前几周——有次我拉伤肩袖，距离比赛只剩八周，当时觉得根本不可能参赛了。我能做的只有：今天还能做什么？

Yeah. You know, I had plenty of years of obstacles like like an injury, x amount of weeks at the Olympia where I was like, there's no way I tore my lap one year, eight weeks at the Olympia. Well, that's no way I'm gonna be able to compete. Yeah. All I could do was, okay, well, what can I do today?

知道吗？当时我在加拿大。有医生在那儿。我第二天就做了PRP治疗。

You know? I was in Canada. A deal was there. I was like, I need some PRP tomorrow. Alright.

然后飞回家。对，完成治疗。第二天想着：上半身不能练，但可以练腿。

Now, I'm flying home, you know? Yeah. I got that done. The next day was like, I can't train upper body. I can go train legs.

每天练腿？好吧，那就隔天练，因为我必须做点什么。就这样日复一日地推进，专注于我能掌控的事。

Train legs every day. Okay. Well, I'll train them every other day because I need to do something. And just progressively doing it one day at a time, focusing on what was in my control.

而你那年还是赢了。

And you still won that year.

而我那年还是赢了。是啊。哇哦。我觉得我另一个最大的作弊码是——和如今许多男性一样——我真的不擅长感受情绪。而且，让自己处于情绪状态中时，我非常逃避，就像，把它推开。

And I still won that year. Yeah. Wow. And I think one of my other biggest cheat codes was I was really, like many men these days, really bad at feeling emotion. And, like, letting myself be in emotional state, I was very avoidant and just, like, push it off.

当我直面自己不擅长处理情绪时，我就像那种人——怎么证明我不擅长什么？所以如果我不擅长感受情绪，而这让我感觉更糟、更焦虑，我能做的相反的事是什么？就是去拥抱那些糟糕的情绪。比如那一刻，我的背阔肌撕裂了，那一刻可能会想，哦，你受伤了。明年再比吧。

And when I came face to face with being bad at that, I was, like, I was very a person like, how do I prove what I'm bad at? So then if I'm bad at feeling stuff and it's making me feel worse and more anxious, what's the opposite I can do? Just embrace the shitty emotions I'm feeling. So if I was like that moment, had my lat tear and in that moment, it might be like, oh, you hurt yourself. Compete next year.

但那就是我的生活。我毕生致力于健美。所以对我来说，退出奥林匹亚大赛就像正在失去生命的一部分。那是毁灭性的。

But that was my life. I dedicated my life to bodybuilding. So to me, think of dropping out the Olympia, it was like I'm losing a piece of my life right now. It was devastating.

确实。

Right.

所以与其逃避，我学会了让自己感受那种情绪。你觉得你要崩溃了，世界正在崩塌？好吧。那就沉浸其中。哭一会儿。

So instead of avoiding that, I learned to let myself feel that emotion. You feel like you're gonna break down, the world's ending and crumbling right now? Okay. Well, be in that. Cry for a moment.

就像，沉浸其中，依靠那些在你身边、爱你的人。幸运的是，我生病后不久就遇到了我妻子。哇。所以她陪伴我赢得了每一次林匹（比赛）。

Like, be in that and lean on the people who are there and who love you. And luckily, met my wife right after I got sick. Wow. So she was with me through every limpie I ever won.

所以你二十出头就认识她了？

So you met her in your early twenties?

二十出头到现在结婚生子。在整个关系中，她是个情感丰富的人。所以她教会我接纳情绪并与她分享。这真的很难解释。也许有些男性会感同身受——你觉得必须压抑情绪，因为那是负面情绪，但释放它并不会带来结果、答案或解决方案。

Early twenties to now married with a child. And then through that whole relationship, she's a very emotional being. So she helped teach me to lean into my emotion to share it with her. And it's so much it's so hard to explain. And maybe some men out there can kind of relate to me in that sense where you feel like you just need to suppress it because it's a bad emotion, but to just let it out, there's no result to come from it, no answer, no solution.

而有一个能分享的人，就像解开了这个阻塞，为你创造了前进的能量。我认为能在人生旅程中运用这一点并学会这样做，让我不断向前。

And to have someone that you can share it with, it just, like, releases this block and creates energy in you to move forward. And I think being able to apply that throughout my journey and learn how to do that just it kept moving me forward.

那真是太不可思议了。你受的伤——我是说，虽然受过很多伤，但肾脏的损伤。我听你和帕特里克·大卫他们聊天时提到，那次受伤让你开始限制自己承担的风险。我觉得这很有意思，因为在我看来，健美运动（虽然我从未涉足）应该是‘不惜一切代价取胜’，而这必然伴随着代价交换。

That's so that's that's so amazing. The the injury that you had well, I mean, had a lot of injury, but the the kidney injury. I've heard you when you you were talking to Patrick David and and some others, and you talked about how that injury made you limit the amount of risk that you took. And I think that that's fascinating because I think in bodybuilding, again, I've never been a bodybuilder, but I would assume that it's win at all costs. And there's an exchange for that.

对吧？使用合成代谢类固醇、反复减重增肌——这些都在透支器官健康，肝脏、肾脏、心脏都会承受巨大压力。

Right? I mean, anabolic steroid use, constantly cutting weight, bulking up weight. I mean, this is hard on your organs. It's hard on your liver. It's hard on your kidneys, hard on your heart.

我猜绝大多数健美运动员会说这种交换值得，愿意用未来健康换取当下成就。但当你因肾脏严重水肿住院时，有哪些风险是你拒绝承担的？更让我惊叹的是，你在设定风险边界后仍能多次问鼎世界之巅。

And I would assume that the vast majority of bodybuilders say that exchange is worth it. I'm willing to borrow from my future for the gain today. But like when you had that injury and you had this swelling and you realized that I have a real critical kidney issue, you know, landed me in the hospital. What were some of those risks that you weren't willing to take? Because I find it even more fascinating that you put guardrails on the amount of risk that you were willing to take, but you still achieved the top spot in the world multiple times.

没错，这正是最打动我的地方。或许这对年轻健美者也有启示：除了药物选择，自我设定的路径同样关键。能具体说说你给自己划定的安全界限吗？

Yeah. And that is really what's fascinating to me. And it might be a message for other, you know, younger bodybuilders that are on that journey, that yes, it is about the gear that you're gonna run, but it's also about the, the path that you set for yourself. So talk some a little bit about some of the guardrails you you you set for yourself.

当然。任何人都该明白，使用任何剂量的PED（性能增强药物）都伴随重大健康风险。职业健美所需的药物强度本质上就是不健康的。

For sure. Yeah. I mean, it's very important for anybody to understand using any level of PD is a serious health risk. Mhmm. You know, like the gear you have to run to be a professional bodybuilder, it's not healthy.

就像你说的，这是在透支未来生命。即便是我，当时也未必完全清楚后果。但我知道身体承受的压力越大，反噬就会越严重。

You're like you said, you're boring from your future life. And Yeah. Even myself, I'm sure I was still ignorant to what I was doing at the time. Mhmm. But I knew that the more stress I would put on my body, the worse it would push me back.

健美者使用的特定化合物种类繁多。某种程度上，我们一直是药物实验的‘小白鼠’——

So there are specific compounds that bodybuilders take. There's an array of them. Mhmm. You know, bodybuilders have always been the guinea pig of

比如胰岛素。

the insulin. Yeah.

没错。从肽类物质开始，健美界总是最早尝试那些尚未成熟的东西。

Exactly. Yeah. Mhmm. We've always been guinea pigs for stuff. Even when it comes to peptides.

就像...在肽类还没被认可前，我们就已经在用它们做实验了。

It's like Right. We were taking peptides before they were were ever anything. We were like, we'll give

试试看

it a shot

完全不行。

at all.

你就像在说，仅用于研究目的听起来很棒。

You're like, research purposes only sounds great.

等等。它对伤势有帮助？在老鼠身上有效

Wait. It helps injuries? Worked in a rat

还有猴子？没错。正是如此。

and a monkey? Exactly. Exactly.

是啊。但不。所以当我病到那个程度时，我就想，好吧，我之前在做x然后病了。如果我做x的一半呢？如果我没病，也许是因为之前某些东西给我的系统带来了过大压力。

Yeah. But no. So when I got to that point where I got sick, was like, okay, I was doing x and I got sick. What if I do half of x? If I don't get sick, maybe there's something that was causing it that was too much of a stress on my system.

所有事情都是多重问题叠加的，你知道。不只是药物让我生病。还有压力，我的生活方式。我刚大学毕业。在休赛期间我经常喝酒。

And everything's a multitude of issues, you know. It's not like just the drugs were making me sick. It was the stress, my lifestyle. I was just going out of college. I was drinking a lot in between my off seasons.

嗯。我那时做了很多事。后来我的重心转向了健康。我把注意力转移到我的你

Mhmm. There was a lot I was doing. So then my shift went on to my health. I focused shift my focus on my You

把注意力转移到你的健康上。

shift your focus to your health.

然后我摄入体内的所有东西

And then so then everything I was putting in my body

因为那一刻它直接甩在了你脸上。

because that that moment made it threw it in your face.

你当时就，

You're like,

哇，我并非不死之身。

woah. I'm not immortal.

我是说，从那次之后——我仍然参加了那届奥林匹亚比赛，结果进了医院。嗯。可能不该那么做，但我太固执了，我当时有个征程、有个目标，不想半途而废。赛后我教练、姐姐、家人还有我自己坐下来都说：你不该再参赛了，该停下来了。

I mean, coming out of that so I still competed in that Olympia where I ended up in the hospital. Mhmm. Probably shouldn't have done that, but I was very stubborn and I was on I had a journey, a goal, I wasn't gonna quit on it. And then after that Olympia, my coach, my sister, my family, myself, like, sat down and were like, you shouldn't compete anymore. You should stop this.

你把身体逼到极限，它已经在警告你了。该停了。但我说：我就是还没准备好放弃。如果现在让我做决定——

Like, you put your body at risk, like, it's telling you something. You should stop. And I was like, I'm just not ready to stop, you know. If I if I was given that decision right now

嗯。

Mhmm.

我肯定受不了。可那时我才21岁。

I would suck. But I was 21 years old.

子弹都打不死你

You can't be killed by a bullet

21岁的时候。对。我最爱讲的故事是——

at 21. Yeah. One of my favorite stories is that I

有个21岁小伙。我以为他坐在这儿呢。他在吗？啊，他在现场。

got a 21 year old. I thought he was sitting in here. Is he in here? Yeah. He's in the house.

那个关于阿隆索和舒马赫比赛的老故事，他们进弯时阿隆索跟在舒马赫后面，却在弯道突然超车。我当时就想，你怎么知道要在那里超他？他说因为舒马赫家里有两个孩子，肯定会提前刹车。懂吗？

That that f one story of, like, back in the day of Alonso racing Schumacher, and they go into a corner, Alonso is behind Schumacher, and he rips by him in the corner. I'm like, how'd you know to get by him there? He's like, he has two kids at home. He was gonna break. You know?

哇。人生会随时间改变。你现在走的是不同的路。两者都没错，但年轻时我又蠢又无知，没有家庭负担，就敢拼命冲。你懂吧？就是不顾一切。

Wow. Your life changes over time. You're on a different journey. And nothing wrong with either, but when I was young, dumb, ignorant, no family, send it, you know? Just get after it.

现在我30岁有孩子了。回头看绝不会做同样决定。虽然庆幸当时做了还能保持健康，这也是我选择在那个时间点退役的原因。

I'm 30 now with kids. But looking back, I wouldn't have made that same decision. So I'm grateful I did, but I got out with my health still. But that's also why I chose to retire when I did too. Yeah.

现在的决定不同了。我给自己设的限制就是控制摄入量和种类。像群勃龙这种对肝脏伤害特别大。

Now decisions are different. But yeah. No. The guardrails I put on that were just limiting how much I took and what I took. Specific things like Tren are one of the hardest things on your liver specifically.

对身体毒性极强。偏偏效果最好。可悲吧。

They're super toxic on your body. They're the ones that work the best Yeah. Sadly.

说它们硬核是有道理的

When they say they're hardcore, they're hardcore

确实。因为

That's yeah. For

有原因的。

a reason.

硬核是有原因的。达到那个级别后副作用肯定比好处多。所以我基本把摄入量减半，想着再试试看。要照顾好身体，注意饮食。

That's hardcore for a reason. It's more adverse effects and benefits for sure from when you get to that level. So I just kind of, like, essentially cut what I was taking in half and was like, I'm gonna try it again. Gonna I'm take care of my health. I'm gonna take care of the food that I put in my body.

不会再想着'需要蛋白质就去Five Guys'。现在会选草饲牛排配红薯，彻底改变饮食结构。嗯。

I'm not gonna be like, oh, I need protein. I'm gonna go to Five Guys. No. I'm gonna go get a grass fed steak and sweet potato and, like, switch everything I'm putting in my body now. Mhmm.

因为过去的健美运动员只关注宏量营养素，你知道吗？对。但其实远不止这些，我已经...

Because bodybuilders back in the day was just like macros are all that matters, you know? Right. But it's a lot more I've I've

今天甚至在Instagram上听到一些人说，是啊，就像宏量营养素。对，热量摄入与消耗，但也有很多科学证据反驳这个理论。

heard some people on, you know, even on Instagram today, there's Yeah. Like macros. Yeah. Calories in, calories out, and and there's a lot of science to disprove that too.

确实如此。

But For sure.

我是说，你可以从甜甜圈获取热量，对吧？但那样会有后果。让我着迷的是，健美运动中有太多内容与健身房无关。你看，世界上一些顶尖企业家，比如凯文·莱里，这些金融界的领军人物会说，人生最重要的决定是选择共度余生的伴侣。

I mean, you can get your calories from donuts, but you right. But there's consequences to that. And but what's also fascinating to me is there's so much about bodybuilding that's like not done in the gym. And, you know, I think some of the, some of the leading entrepreneurs in the world, Kevin Leary, for example, some, of the leading financial entrepreneurs in the world will say the greatest decision you'll ever make is the person that you choose to spend the rest of your life with. Yeah.

我常听你谈起妻子是你的基石和后盾。我觉得这非常真诚，你不是为了在播客上致敬妻子才这么说。在像健美这样孤独的运动中竞技，还带着家人一起踏上这段旅程——无论他们是否愿意——这需要非常特别的人持续支持你，并愿意做出牺牲。这方面特别触动我，因为遇到第二任妻子塞奇后，我才真正体会到爱、感恩和归属感。

And I've heard you talk about your wife a lot as that foundation, as that rock. And I, I find it to be very sincere. I don't think that you're just on a podcast trying to pay homage to your wife. I think that, you know, when you're competing in a sport as lonely as bodybuilding, and you're sort of taking your family on the journey, whether they want to go or not, It has to take a very special person to constantly support you and be willing to make sacrifices on their side of the table. I find this area particularly fascinating because for me, I found a lot of like love and gratitude and foundation after I met my second wife, Sage.

我们做了所有不该做的事：同居、一起建房、共同创业，

And we did all the things that you're not supposed to do. Right? Moved in together, built a house together, started a business together,

还重组了家庭。是的。

you know, combined our families. Yeah.

我觉得最伟大的关系是那些经历所有本应拆散你们的事情后，依然在一起的感情。所以我想请你聊聊，你从她那里获得了怎样的力量？这个决定有多重要？因为我认为男性比我们声称的要脆弱得多。

And I think maybe the greatest relationships are the ones that go through everything that's meant to tear you apart, but you're still together. Yeah. And so I wonder if you just talk a little bit about, you know, what kind of foundation or strength you got from her. How important was that decision? Because I think men were weaker than we profess to be.

确实如此。

For sure.

我们其实比表现出来的更情绪化。社会教导我们压抑情绪，不显露恐惧，不表达感恩——那被视为软弱。不谈信仰，不谈家庭关系，但你却非常坦诚。所以她给了你多大的支持系统？

And we're a, we're a lot more emotional creatures than we also let out. You know, we're taught to suppress our emotions and not show fear and not, not show gratitude. That's weakness. Not talk about our faith and not talk about our family relationships, but but you're very open about it. So how how much of a support system did you have from her?

这对你职业生涯的影响真有那么大吗？你觉得你能连续六次成功吗？对她来说已经不错了。

And like, how did that matter so much to your career? You You think you would've made it six times in, in a row? Not bad for her.

了解我的人都知道，我坚信氢水的益处。H2 tab提供经济便携的片剂，可生成12ppm超纯净分子氢，这是市场上浓度最高的产品之一。1300多项已发表研究证实其对氧化应激、精力恢复、大脑功能等有显著改善。掌控健康从未如此简单经济——只需将片剂投入水中溶解饮用，日均成本不足一美元，科学背书且已成为我的日常习惯。

If you know me, you know, I'm a huge believer in the benefits of hydrogen water. H2 tab delivers cost effective portable tablets that generate ultra clean molecular hydrogen at 12 parts per million. One of the highest concentrations on the market with over 1,300 published studies showing benefits of oxidative stress, energy, recovery, brain function, and so much more taking charge of your health has never been easier or more cost effective. Just drop a tablet in water, let it dissolve and drink it back. It's less than a dollar a day science backed and part of my daily routine.

这是我出行必备的最爱生物黑客产品。访问drinkh2tab.com，立即升级你的饮水方式。

I never travel without this, and it is my favorite biohack. Visit drinkh2tab.com. That's drinkh2tab.com and upgrade your hydration today.

现在让我们回到《终极人类》播客。我猜她正在看这期节目。

Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. I I'm assuming she's watching this.

如果她在看的话，你知道...

If she's watching. You know,

我认为成功之后迷失自我却仍能持续成功是有本质区别的。若问没有她我能否成功？绝对不行。能赢几届奥林匹亚吗？当然可以。

I think there's a difference between making it and then losing yourself along the way and still making it. And I think that makes all the difference. So if you ask if I would be successful with her, absolutely not. Could I have won some Olympias? Sure.

但对我而言，成功不仅是奖杯陈列，更是职业生涯结束时仍能自豪于自我品格、待人方式以及经营维系的人际关系。夜阑人静时令我安眠的不是奖杯，而是源于品格的内心平静、人际关系以及对妻子的爱——她是我生命中永恒的基石。她给予我的帮助远非言语能形容。

But to me, success isn't just having some trophies on my shelf. It's, you know, finishing my career, like, proud of who I am, how I treated people, the relationships I built and kept along the way. Like, that to me is success. When I go to sleep at night, it's not because of trophies, it's because of the peace I feel at my heart with my character, my relationships, and the love I have for my wife and knowing that that is, like, my constant rock in life. And so the what she has helped me with is beyond what I could really ever explain.

正如你所说，我们都不擅感知或表达情绪，但越是压抑，体内反应就越强烈——无论是科学角度的皮质醇分泌增加，还是生理上的麻木感。我曾是习惯麻木应对的人。有年奥林匹亚演讲中我领悟到：若你麻木负面情绪，也会麻木正面感受。当你试图压抑一切，就等于给自己设置了情感感知的天花板。

And like you were saying, we're not the best at feeling or expressing emotion, but I think the more we hold things in, the bigger reaction they have within our body, whether from a scientific point of producing more cortisol or just physically feeling numb, you know. And I was definitely someone who would numb things out. And in one my Olympiast speeches one year, something that I, like, learned from her was that if you numb the bad, numb the good. If you're trying to suppress everything, you're, like, putting yourself in this box of what you can feel. You might be trying not to feel negative emotion, but you're putting glass ceiling on the positive emotion you can feel too.

你会变成麻木的存在。她真正教会我打开这个盒子，允许真实的自己被看见。人类天生渴望联结，而唯有展现真我才能建立联结。

You're just like this, like, numb being. So she really taught me to just open that box up and allow myself to be seen. You know, as humans, we're wired for a connection. And you can't feel connected unless you're letting your genuine self be seen. Yeah.

刚才和亨利聊到这个——两周前我们刚举办正式婚礼（其实早就结婚了）。

You know, to like, in a moment, I was just talking about this with Henry. We were like filming something and I had my official wedding two weeks ago now and Oh, you did? Yeah. We've been married, but we had the official wedding.

是啊，我们和Sage一样也得这么做。

Yeah. We're gonna Sage and I gotta do the same thing.

我们结婚多年却从未真正庆祝过。

We've been married for years and we never actually had.

你们在哪里庆祝的？

Where did you celebrate?

我们在意大利的托斯卡纳。

We were in Italy, Tuscany.

哇老兄，太棒了！我们儿子将来也要在那里结婚。

Oh, dude. That's awesome. That's where our son's gonna get married.

哦，那太棒了。

Oh, that's awesome.

像是科莫那种地方？对的对的...等等那是在托斯卡纳吗？不是。

Like like Como. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's is that in Tuscany? No.

或者说不是那里。

Or that's no.

不是的，那是...

No. It's

那是在哪儿？抱歉。中部？南部。是南部。

Where is that? Sorry. Mid? South. South.

总之，意大利很美。我儿子在那里订婚，也将在那里结婚。有一阵子我妻子不想告诉别人我们结婚了，因为我们还没举行仪式。是的。所以你们是在托斯卡纳办的婚礼吗？

Anyway, Italy is beautiful. My son got engaged there, and he's also gonna get married there. And and my my wife for a while didn't wanna tell people we were married because we hadn't had the ceremony. Yeah. And so you had it in Tuscany?

是啊。所以是小型家庭聚会那种？

Yeah. So was it like small family?

哦对。我们当时就八个人在场。不。是的。只有我父母的兄弟姐妹，她妈妈的兄弟姐妹，就这样。

Oh, yeah. We had eight people there. No. Yeah. It was it was my parents' siblings, her mom siblings, and that was it.

还有她女儿。

And her daughter.

还有你女儿。

And your daughter.

没错。即使规模这么小，还是有个瞬间——当时有现场乐队演奏。那天情绪很激动。我们早上手写了誓言，各种情绪涌上来，乐队演奏着这首歌时，我眼泪直接就涌出来了。

Yeah. Yeah. And even in that small thing, there was this moment where, like, we had this live band playing music. It was an emotional day. We wrote our vows by hand in the morning, you know, like, lots of stuff coming up, they're playing this song, and I just, like, had tears coming to my eyes where I started crying.

我特别感激那天我们共享的爱意。我注意到我们坐在桌子一边，对面只有六个人。我转向她，因为那是让我感到安全的地方——能被看见真实脆弱的自我，可以与她分享这些而不必独自承受。嗯。所以即便最亲的家人在场，她仍是我最安心的依靠。

So I'm just so grateful for, like, the love that we were sharing the day that we were in. And I noticed myself just, like, we're on one side of the table and there's only six people on other side. And I just turned to her because, like, that was my safe place to, like, feel and be seen and whatever, like, my true vulnerable self was, like, she I can share that with her and I'm not alone in that. Mhmm. So, like, even though with my closest family there, she's still my safest rock to be with.

我转身时只有她看见我哭，她了解真实的我，只是把手搭在我身上什么也没说，就这样陪着我。这种被看见的感觉，我们之间无言的默契与信任，能赋予你面对一切的底气。比如某天回家时你想着'我他妈受伤了，感觉糟透了，这还怎么赢下届奥林匹亚'。

So I turned and she was the only one who could see me cry and she, like, knows who I am and she, like, saw me, put a hand on me, didn't say anything, was just, like, there for me. And that kind of, like, ability to be seen and unspoken connection and trust between us, like, that's the kind of confidence that can instill you to be able to do anything. You know, you come home from a day and you're like, I'm fucking injured. I feel like, shit, this happened. Like, how the fuck am I gonna win another Olympia?

甚至会怀疑'我到底为什么做这个？'但能向真正懂你的人在此时倾诉，释放情绪后直面问题本质——'你究竟在纠结什么？这痛苦从何而来？'而且不必独自消化这些。是的。

This is why am I even doing this? You know? And to be able to share that with someone who knows you and sees you and for them to be there for you in that moment, like, to let that out and then to get to the true thing that's unraveling, it's like, okay, what are you really dealing with? Why is this pain coming up and to be able to process that and not alone? Yeah.

这才是建立自信的关键。对我而言，正是这些让你能一次次获胜的同时，始终保有完整的自我，在追求卓越的路上成长为更好的人。

That's what instills confidence. And to me, those are the kind of things that allows you not to win once, two, three, four, five, six times and become a better person along the way, not lose yourself on a journey of excellence.

是啊，这太棒了，兄弟。因为你在心智、身体和灵魂上都成长了。嗯，你懂吧？

Yeah. That's so awesome, man. Because you grew in you grew in mind, body, grew in spirit. Mhmm. You know?

你...你大概十五个月前，那是上帝赐予你最大祝福的时刻。对吧？你的

You you and I guess about fifteen months ago, that's when God gave you the greatest blessing. Right? Your

女儿，她

daughter, she's

18岁了。对，对。那肯定是个重大转变。这是你决定退役的因素之一吗？

18 old. Yeah. Yeah. That had to be a material change. Did that factor into you retiring?

绝对是。有影响吗？对，对，没错。

Absolutely. It did? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

当时我妻子大概...不知道，四五个月身孕吧，在我倒数第二次参加奥林匹亚大赛时。嗯。那本该是我的最后一战。我当时已经准备好在那次退役了。结果那年我拉伤了背阔肌。

So when my wife was, like, I don't know, four or five months pregnant at my second last Olympia. Mhmm. And that was supposed to be my last. I was like ready to retire on that one. And that was the year I tore my lat.

而且很多事情都像是在暗示我该结束了。

And just a lot of stuff felt like it was lining up for me to be done.

是你在最后一次比赛时拉伤背阔肌的吗？

It was your last one that you tore your last?

倒数第二次。

Second last one.

哦，倒数第二次啊。

Oh, second last one.

当我状态还好时，我计划过退休。

When I was Okay. I planned to retire.

好的。

Okay.

但后来，我内心经历了一些事情，我就想，我希望以一个更积极的姿态结束，你懂的，不是出于恐惧而退出，而是出于一种力量的选择。可紧接着，就像那个家伙闯入角落的故事一样，我就想，好吧，我家人在家里等我，我已经取得了成功，一次就够了。

And then from there, there were some things that I was going through internally, and I was just like, I wanna finish on a little bit more of a positive note, you know, stepping away not from fear, but from just a choice of power. But then, like, that same story of that guy, you know, breaking into the corner. It's like, okay, I have my family at home. I've had my success. One's enough enough.

你知道的，就像

You know, like

你永远听不到汤姆·布雷迪或迈克尔·乔丹说‘我还能再来一次’。当然，他们总是这样。

You never get that Tom Brady Michael Jordan, I got one more in me. Of course. Constantly.

我觉得他这么说了六次。

I think he did that six times.

他确实说了。是的。

He did. Yeah.

而且他做到了。他确实做到了。做到了。还拿下了

And he crushed it. He did. Did. Took

又一个超级碗。

another Super Bowl.

但我没有

But I don't

我想那就是信念。我确信我会说‘是啊’。我敢说他80岁时还会悠闲地坐着，然后说‘哦，我本可以做得更多’，你懂吗？是的。

think that is faith. I'm sure I'll be like Yeah. I'm sure he'll be 80 years old where he'll be chilling and be like, oh, I could've done more, you know? Yeah.

嗯，他想参加

Well, he wants to play

现在的奥运会。

in the Olympics now.

所以是的。没错。没错。

So Yeah. True. True.

其实你知道，有趣的是，汤姆让我想起很多关于你的事。他对表现和最佳健康有着孩子般的热忱。我们所有的讨论总是围绕着，他怎么能更好地照顾自己？怎么能睡得更好？怎么能表现得更出色？

He actually you know, interestingly, Tom reminds me a lot about you. He has a childlike fascination with performance and optimal health. You know, all of our discussions have always been centered around like, how can he take better care of himself? How can he sleep better? How can he perform better?

所以我觉得像他这样职业生涯的人还如此努力在场外做到最好，为了自己，这很迷人。但我也是先有了女儿，麦蒂。那真是改变人生的经历。你知道，对我来说真的很奇怪，因为我们带她回家的第一天，我感觉就像家里来了个外国人。

So I find it fascinating with someone who's had a career like that too. That's still trying to be the best off the field at what he does for, you know, for himself. But I had a daughter first too, Maddie. And that is a life changing experience. You know, it's really kind of strange for me because the very first day that we brought her home, I kind of felt like it was a foreigner in my house.

我当时想，会有人来把这东西接走吗？就像，

I was like, is somebody gonna come pick this thing up? Like,

这是要，比如，一直待下去吗？知道吗？然后这很可怕。可怕是因为没有指南。

is this, like, gonna stay? Know? Then It's terrifying. It's terrifying because there's no guidebook.

就像，你不知道该做什么。他们说，给他们。是的。但疯狂的是整个——我讲这个故事都会起鸡皮疙瘩。这是我的第一任妻子艾米，我孩子的母亲，她是个了不起的人，至今仍是我非常亲密的朋友。

Like, you don't know what to do. They're like, give them. Yeah. But then what's crazy is this whole I get goosebumps telling this story. And this is my first wife, Amy, the mother of my kids, who's an amazing, amazing person, still a very close friend of mine to this day.

但最让我震惊的是，你知道，我们把这东西带回家。我就觉得，我好像会弄坏它。我不知道怎么喂它。它那么，那么小。

But what was so astounding to me was, you know, we bought this thing home. And I'm like, I feel like I'm gonna break it. I don't know how to feed it. It's so, it's so small.

如此脆弱。

So fragile.

它太脆弱了。但不知怎的，她心里就是知道该怎么做。我当时就想，你这些知识从哪来的？像是读过育儿书似的。比如我女儿一哭，她就能判断‘哦，是胀气了’

It's so fragile. And then, but something in her, she just knew what to do. I was like, where'd you get all this knowledge? Like, you've been reading books. Like, she's like, like my daughter would cry and she'd oh, she's gassy.

或是需要喂食了。又或者，是想让我进去抱抱她。

Or she needs to eat. Or she, wants me to come in and hold her.

我就纳闷：你究竟怎么知道的？

I'm like, how the hell do you know that?

听起来只是噪音而已。

It just sounds like noise.

是啊。她还能分辨不同哭声的含义。最神奇的是看着你妻子突然展现出全新的女性特质——至少我的体验是这样——仿佛因为家里突然多了个孩子，上帝就赐予了她们这种智慧。没错。

Yeah. And then she knew the difference in the cries. And it was like so what was really cool was to see this whole woman come out of your wife, at least if that was my experience, that just showed up because there was a kid all of a sudden in the house. God imparts this wisdom upon them somehow. Yep.

她们似乎天生就知道该怎么做，而你我只能在黑暗中笨拙摸索

They sort of know what to do because you and I are just fumbling around in the dark

就像...只是想帮忙。奶瓶。对。

like Just trying to help. Bottle. Yeah.

我该怎么帮忙？

How do I help?

需要我做什么？

What do need me to do?

好的。你需要我做什么？我超级害怕。

Yeah. What do you need me to do? I'm, like, so scared.

但现在她已经15岁了。她开始攀爬东西，到处搞破坏。

But now she's so she's 15. She's pulling herself up on stuff, wreaking havoc.

走路、到处跑。是啊是啊。你女儿比我大，有什么建议吗？有什么我需要知道的诀窍？

Walking, running around. Yeah. Yeah. Do have any advice having an older daughter than me? Any tips I need to know?

有的。要知道，你最终会心软会妥协。我养大了三个孩子，现在和Sage还有她前段婚姻带来的第四个孩子。我唯一的育儿建议就是把孩子融入你的日常生活。

Yeah. You know, it's it's you're gonna cave and you're gonna melt. And there's you know, my only parenting advice, and I've raised three kids. I have a fourth one now with Sage, that she had from previous marriage. My only advice is just incorporate your kids into your daily life.

别停下自己的生活围着孩子转。我们带Madison去过繁忙的餐厅，带她外出就餐，带着她旅行。当时有款最酷的婴儿车叫Bugaboo。

Like, do not stop your life and turn it all onto your kid. Like, we brought Madison to busy restaurants. We brought her out to eat. We traveled with her. Even in the little, they had this the coolest stroller at the time was called the Bugaboo.

它是航空铝材制造的。我当时还是个科学爱好者，心想'哇航空铝材，太酷了'。我们买了这辆车，但去朋友家时他们会说'嘘，宝宝在睡觉'。

It's made out of aircraft aluminum. So like I was a scientist. Oh, it's aircraft aluminum. It's so cool. And so we got one of these, but literally, you know, we would go over to some of our friend's house and they'd be like, shh, the baby's sleeping.

房门紧闭。他们必须严格六点入睡。我们蹑手蹑脚，结果他们早上五点半就醒了。我们就说'哦，我们带着宝宝一起来的'。

The door's closed. They gotta go to exactly 06:00. And so we tiptoe around and they wake them up exactly 05:30 in the morning. And we were like, oh, we brought our baby with us.

而且很难把它带进...

And hard to bring it in the

这让生活变得轻松适应。后来我们注意到坐飞机时，其他宝宝会因为作息被打乱而哭闹不止，但Madison已经习惯在任何环境下入睡，房间里有噪音也无所谓。

it just made it so easy and adaptive. And then we noticed like when we would take flights, people's babies would be screaming and just bouncing off the wall because they knocked them off their schedule. But Madison was just so used to sleeping when where she had to sleep. There was noise in the room. There was noise in the room.

我们并非故意打乱她的生活，但她的育儿室门总是开着，我们照样会招待客人吃晚餐。

I mean, we didn't purposely disrupt their life, but her her, you know, nursery room door was open and we would have folks over for dinner.

我们

We'd the

家人都在，很吵闹。

family and it was noisy.

是啊。

Yeah.

她能睡过去。这就是我唯一的建议。

She would sleep through it. And that's my only advice.

我不，我不喜欢

I don't I don't like

给太多育儿建议。等孩子成年后，我反而成了更好的家长，

to give a lot of parenting advice. I become a better parent after my kids were adults than

比他们小时候强。

when I was when they were younger.

只要

As long

你们能解决就好。但我觉得，作为父亲，我们的角色就是在孩子学会自信前始终相信他们。现在我看到这种转变正在我的孩子们身上发生——他们开始相信自己，独立自主，创业打拼，真正在世界上闯出一片天。这对我来说是最大的满足。

as you figure it out. But I think our role as as as fathers is to just believe in our kids until they learn to believe in themselves. Yeah. And now I'm seeing that switch in my kids, like, as they're starting to believe in themselves and they're starting to stand on their own two feet and they're starting businesses and they're really making their way in the world. And that for me is the greatest level of satisfaction.

所以我唯一的育儿建议就是：别放慢你的生活节奏。带着女儿去任何地方。谁看不惯，就把谁请出你的生活。

So my only parenting advice is just don't slow your life down. No. Bring your daughter with you wherever. And if people don't like it, get them out of your life. Yeah.

他们他们才是问题所在，老兄。

They're they're the problem, man.

是啊，他们就是问题所在。

Yeah. They're the problem.

他们在镜头前表现得太过了。他们

They were being too on screen. They were

因为有个孩子而感到

being embarrassed to have

尴尬。但其实是你

a a kid. But it's you

知道最棒的是什么吗？还有

know what's awesome too is that, there's

这种恐惧

this fear

对未知的恐惧。比如，我这样教育对吗？我把他们培养得好吗？我做对了吗？我是不是个好榜样？

of the unknown. Like, am I parenting right? Am I raising them right? Am I doing the right thing? Am I being the right role model?

但最终，每个阶段都会越来越好。这世上没有什么比看着孩子运动更棒的事了，或者第一次去看女儿在圣诞剧里唱歌。那种感觉太美妙了。是啊。现在他们成年了，成了我最好的朋友。

But eventually, like every stage gets better and better. Like there is nothing in this world better than watching your kid play a sport or, like the first time you go and watch your daughter sing at the Christmas players. It's it's just so amazing. Yeah. And and now they're my best friends as adults.

我是说，我可以真心说我的孩子们是我最好的朋友。嗯。没有更想一起旅行的人，没有更想共事的人，也没有比他们更值得我信任的人了。

I mean, I could truly say my kids are my best friends. Mhmm. There's no one I would rather travel with. There's no one I'd rather be in business with. There's no one I trust more than them.

所以

So

太棒了。是的。

That's awesome. Yeah.

只要这有帮助，这就是我能提供的全部了。

To the extent that helps, that's that's all I got.

好建议。

Good advice.

好建议。因为你

Good advice. Because you

刚带她去了我们意大利的婚礼旅行。哦，你们去了？简直一团糟。我们觉得，再也不会带婴儿去欧洲了。糟糕的决定。

just took her to to our trip to our wedding to Italy. Oh, you did? It was chaos. We're like, we're never going back to Europe with a baby again. Bad decision.

所以也许我们会选择比六小时时差更近的地方旅行。

So maybe we'll travel closer than a six hour time trip.

嗯，我是说，确实。你们一开始就全力以赴了。懂吗？这有点过了。效果不大。

Well, mean, that's yeah. You just went all in out of the gate. You know? That's a little heavy. That doesn't do much.

但我觉得你带他们经历得越多，他们适应力就越强。知道吗？他们从观察中学到的远比你想教给他们的多。

But but I think the more you do with them, the more adaptive they become. You know? They they will learn way more from observation than they do from what you try to teach them.

确实如此。

For sure.

没错。而且他们的观察力远超你的想象。是的。知道吗？当他们开始说出最初的几句话时，你会意识到他们对周围世界了解得有多深，因为当他们不说话时，他们就在观察。

Yeah. And they are way more observant than what you think. Yeah. You know? When those first sentences start coming out of their mouth and you realize how much they know about the world around them because when they're not speaking, they're observing.

对。他们在观察。学习。是的。

Yeah. They're watching. Learn. Yeah.

是的。而且他们正在形成自己的观点。抱歉。我...我有个很棒的前妻，我孩子的母亲也是个非常非常好的女人。所以我们决定分开时，只是解除了夫妻关系。

Yeah. And they're formulating their own opinions. So sorry. I I had a great, the mother of my kids is a great, great woman too. And so when we decided we were gonna separate, we only separated the husband and the wife.

我们从未割裂母亲和父亲的角色。

We never separated the mother and the father.

我觉得

I think

这对孩子们也是很大的好处。我想稍微换个话题。显然，你节目里请来了世界上最伟大的健美运动员之一。我们得聊聊你的经历。大家肯定都想知道他用了什么？

that was a big plus for the kids too. So I wanna switch gears a little bit. I mean, obviously, you have one of the greatest bodybuilders in the world on your podcast. We gotta talk a little bit about your journey. Everybody's gonna wanna know what did he take?

他怎么吃的？他做了什么才能达到那个境界？我还注意到你之前播客里有个有趣的故事，你提到有个想开始健美的年轻人问你：'我该用类固醇吗？'而你告诉他不要用。

How did he eat? What did he do to, you know, to get there? I also found it fascinating on a podcast I was watching of yours when, you talked about time where a young, kid came up to you that was going to start bodybuilding. And, and he was like, should I start using steroids? And you told him no.

你说这是个非常糟糕的主意。我觉得这很有意思，因为作为史上最伟大的健美运动员之一，称霸这项运动的人——显然在使用兴奋剂——却直接建议这个初学者不要碰类固醇。你在David的Pet Show播客里说过这个，提醒一下。

He said, it's a really bad idea. And I thought that was really interesting, you know, because here you are, one of the greatest bodybuilders of all time, dominating the sport. It's clearly, you know, using PEDs and your recommendation out of the gate to this young bodybuilder starting out was don't start with steroids. You said that on the Pet Pet Show at David podcast, just as a reminder.

面对如此重大的决定，如果你要随便找个陌生人，让他的回答决定你是否要做可能危害健康的事...你需要自己做出这个决定。你需要了解风险有多大，收益有多小。人们看着我的生活可能会想'哇，我想要那样'。嗯。

With a decision that serious, if you're gonna walk up to a stranger and let their answer decide depict if you're gonna do something that's potentially harming your health, like, you need to be making that decision for yourself. You need to be understanding what the risks are. You need to be understanding how small the benefits are. Like, did people can look at my life and be like, wow, like, I want that. Mhmm.

但真正在任何运动领域成功的人有多少？对吧？更别说健美了。健身房里多少人，最后又有几个能成为奥林匹亚先生？

How many people actually make it in any sport, you know? Right. Let alone bodybuild. How many people at a gym, then how many people become Mr. Olympia?

除此之外，那些在奥林匹亚先生大赛中获得第二名的人，他们拿到的奖金支票可能只有20美元。至于赞助收入，也许其中一些人一年能赚到六位数的低端。这算不上奢侈的生活。而当你30岁时职业生涯就结束了，之后你还能做什么呢？

And beyond that, there's people who are second place in the Mr. Olympia, and they're making that cash that check for that prize money is, like, $20. For sponsors, maybe there some of these people are making, like, low 6 figures a year. Like, it's not a life of lux. And then your shelf life is done when you're 30, what do you do from there?

这并不像你想象的那么激动人心。风险其实非常高。

Like, it's not as exciting as you might think. It's a really high risk.

嗯。

Mhmm.

大多数人最终都无法实现他们预期的成功，明白吗？是的。所以我一定会告诉那些年轻且认真考虑这条路的人，先完成所有基础准备，把职业健美当作最后一步。比如，你是否持续多年刻苦训练？是否学会正确的动作形式、周期规划、优质训练计划？是否掌握营养补充和充分休息？是否竭尽全力挖掘自己的基因潜力？因为...

And most people don't see the success that they think they're going to see, you know? Yeah. So I definitely tell anybody young who's trying to take that seriously is to really tick off all your, like, boxes and that being the last one. Like, have you spent consistent years training hard, learning how to train with proper form, proper periodization, good programs, you know, good nutrition, good rest, and doing everything that you can to get to a point where you can actually see what your genetic capabilities are? Because Mhmm.

健美运动员最大的限制因素就是基因。当进入奥林匹亚级别时，所有人都是基因池中最顶尖的0.001%——不仅指增肌能力，还包括关节与肌腹的比例、腰围尺寸、腿部背阔肌的生长潜力等等。所有这些细节都依赖基因。如果你在年轻时还不了解这些就贸然使用类固醇，而自身基因条件又很差，那就是在无谓地冒险。

One of the biggest thing that limits a bodybuilder is your genetics. Right. You know, once you're in the Olympias age, everyone's at top 0001% in the gene pool of not only your ability to put on muscle, but just your ratio of, like, joint to muscle belly to waist size to, like, your ability to grow legs and lats so you can create an extra like, all the little things are so dependent on that. So if you just jump into jumping on steroids at a young age before you know any of that, then you have horrible genetics. You've just put yourself at risk for no reason.

这个观点非常——非常精辟。按你走过的这条路来说，就像你之前提过的，其实根本没有指南手册。没有什么《类固醇健美入门》的教科书告诉你'从这里开始，第一个月做什么，第六个月做什么，第十二个月做什么'。顶尖选手可能也不愿分享他们的幕后方法，因为任何细微优势都是他们的制胜法宝。那么你当时的信息来源是什么？

That's a really good that's a really good point. I mean, on this path that you went on, I mean, there's not really, you've even talked about it before. There's no real guidebook. It's not like, Hey, go read this book. It's, it's, it's bodybuilding steroid 101.

你的训练建议是从哪里获得的？当然你肯定会去举重，但如果不懂门道的话，你本会更容易频繁受伤的。

You start here. This is what you do month one, month six, month 12. There isn't really a guide. And I kind of feel like, maybe the guys at the top of their game aren't really that willing to share their what they're doing behind the scenes because any little edge that they have is an edge that they keep for themselves. And, so what were you using as a resource?

所以你的训练指导从何而来？关于药物使用和营养方案的指引又来自哪里？还是说基本都是自己一路摸索出来的？

Like, where were you getting your training advice from? I mean, you obviously did you go and you lift heavy, but you would have gotten a lot more injured a lot more frequently if you didn't know what you were doing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那么你获取训练指导的渠道是什么？关于药物和营养方面的建议又是从哪里获得的？或者你真的是全程靠自己摸索出来的？

So where did you get where'd you get the guidance from for training? Where did you get the guidance from on your gear, on your nutrition, or were you really just figuring it out along the way?

很多专项训练至少是从我姐夫开始的。他是个年轻的健美运动员。我妻子的兄弟？不对，是我姐姐的丈夫。抱歉。

A lot of specifically training at least started with my brother-in-law. He was a young bodybuilder. My wife's brother? My wife's husband. Sorry.

我姐姐的

My sister's

我姐姐的丈夫。奇怪。我们刚发现了一夫多妻制。把我们的迷雾拨开。

My sister's husband. Weird. We just found a polygamous. Turn our mists.

在终极人类面前暴露了自己。对。我姐姐的丈夫，他们在我高中时就开始约会了。好吧。他告诉他们他是当地的健美运动员。

Exposed myself on the ultimate human. Yeah. My sister's husband, they were dating at the time when I was in high school. Okay. He told them he had local bodybuilder.

直到今天，他也成为了一名职业健美运动员。而且他是整个联盟里出了名最强壮、训练最刻苦的人之一。真的吗？所以我在12年级时能偶尔和他一起训练，简直是开了巨大的外挂。又一次在正确的时间出现在正确的地方，像是上帝的安排让我处于那个位置。

And he was just to this day, like, he became a professional bodybuilder as well. And he was, like, notoriously one of the strongest, hardest training guys in the whole, like, league. Really? So me being able to be in grade 12 and that being, like, my training partner some days gave me, like, a massive cheat code. Another moment of, like, being in right place, right time, like, God's timing to be in the right position.

嗯。这个现在热爱训练的年轻人，当时是我仰望的、有着疯狂职业操守的杰出健美运动员。很酷。他教会我最重要的就是真正的训练强度。人们以为自己在健身房练得很刻苦，但每天都把每组动作做到接近力竭或真正力竭，年复一年、周复一周地坚持，这完全是不同的概念，懂吗？

Mhmm. Of, like, this young kid who loves training now, he was this incredible bodybuilder with insane work ethic, who is the guy I'm looking up to. That's cool. He taught me more than anything just what true intensity was, you know? People think they're training hard in the gym, but the idea of taking, like, every set close to failure or to failure every single day and pushing every single week after week, year after year, it's it's different, you know?

所以那是我16岁开始训练时的标准。直到今天这都是我的巨大优势——当我和比我块头更大的健美运动员训练时，我的动作往往更标准，力量也比他们大，因为这已经融入我的血液了。他是我重要的导师，在我职业生涯初期一直指导我。

So that was my standard when I started training at, like, 16 years old. And that was, like, my huge cheat code to this day where I'll train with big bigger bodybuilders than me, and I often have better form and I'm stronger than them because I've just that was just my, like, blood, you know, that's what I've been doing. So he was a huge resource for me. He coached me through the beginning of my

所以他实际上是在健身房里亲自指导你。

So he was actually in the gym with coaching you.

没错。太棒了。他帮我制定饮食计划，其实我觉得这些远比人们想象的要简单。是的。我想你也经常看到人们为健康焦虑，总想找到完美解决方案。

Yeah. That's awesome. Doing my diet, nutrition, and I really think so much of it is so much more simple than people realize. And Yeah. I imagine you see this a lot too when people stressing about health, trying to find this perfect solution and answer.

对。有时候你需要回归本质：刻苦训练、合理饮食、持之以恒。

Yeah. Sometimes you gotta boil it back to just training hard, eating right, and doing consistently.

我完全同意你的观点，Vin。我曾告诉过你，你让我最震惊的一个评论是关于你备战奥林匹亚先生大赛时说的。你知道，我本以为你会列出一长串补剂清单，包括各种肽类等等。但你基本上只说了一句：‘我的营养摄入已经调整到位了。’

I totally agree with you, Vin. I told you one of my favorite comments that you ever made that was shocking to me was, you know, you talked about going into Mr. Olympia prep. And, you know, I was expecting you to give this laundry list of supplements and this laundry list of, you know, peptides and all of this stuff. And you basically said, I had my nutrition dialed in.

你当时就服用了肌酸和蛋白粉。我当时就觉得，哇。我经常提到这件事，现在最顶尖的长寿科学和抗衰老专家们兜兜转转又回到了原点。我们正在重新重视基础要素。

I was taking creatine and protein powders. And I was like, wow. And I often talk about that, how like the greatest longevity science and anti aging experts now have come full circle. And we're like getting back to the basics. Yeah.

阳光、维生素D3、接地气、呼吸训练、全食物饮食、注重睡眠——这些基础要素是你无法通过技巧绕开的。就像你不可能通过训练来抵消糟糕的饮食。

Sunlight, vitamin D three, grounding and breath work, whole food diet, focusing on sleep, like the basics, the things that you can't manage your way around. You know, I'm sure you couldn't train your way around a crappy diet.

没错。

Yeah.

同样，你也不能靠饮食来弥补糟糕的训练。所以这些就是根本原则。就像蓝区长寿法则：全食物饮食、人际联系与生活目标、以及终身保持活动能力。数据就是这么显示的。

And you couldn't eat your way around poor training. And so there's some just those fundamentals. It's like the fundamentals of longevity if you follow the blue zone, whole food diet, sense of connection and purpose, and mobility into later in life. Yeah. That's what the data says.

对吧？我觉得你的意思是健美运动就像营养一样：刻苦训练、充足睡眠、恢复、然后循环这个过程。

Right? And I and I think you're saying bodybuilding is like nutrition, train hard, sleep, recover, repeat.

对，确实如此。

Yeah. For sure.

虽然过度简化了，但我确实想稍微聊聊补剂这个话题。我整理了一些你最喜欢的补剂清单，想请你谈谈这些补剂如何融入你的日常计划，以及它们对你的重要性。乳清蛋白似乎是其中最重要的——除了全食物之外，这是你获取蛋白质的主要来源吗？你当时的目标摄入量是多少？

Major oversimplifying it. But but I do wanna go into the supplement bandwagon a little bit. I I got a list of some of your some of your favorites, and I I wondered if you just talk about these and, like, how you incorporate them into your daily regimen and how important they were for you. Whey protein was, like, the the big one. Was that your main in addition to whole foods, was that your your main other source of protein trying to get to what?

200克

200 grams of

对。

Yeah.

蛋白质，210克

Protein, 210 grams

蛋白质？我一般会从天然食物中摄取至少200到250克蛋白质。哇。然后我会再通过蛋白粉补充50到100克。但目标始终是天然食物，嗯。

of protein? I mean, I would typically aim to get, like, at least 200 to 250 grams from whole foods of protein. Wow. And then I would stack on anywhere from 50 to a 100 grams from protein shakes. But the goal was always whole food, but Mhmm.

当你摄入300多克蛋白质时，那真是大量的食物。是啊。特别是生活忙碌的时候。你走出健身房，能从包里拿出来兑水就喝，这确实非常简便。

When you're eating 300 plus grams of protein, it's just a lot of food. Yeah. Especially, like, life's busy or whatever. You walk out of a gym, just being able to have that in your bag, mix it with water and go is Yeah. It's super simple and convenient.

所以大概...你知道吗？我已经超过两天——其实过去十年都没喝过蛋白粉了。真的？

So that's probably You know? It hasn't been over two days, I haven't taken protein powder in the last decade. Really?

我记得我我

I remember I I had

曾短暂当过铁人三项运动员，还拿过佛罗里达州业余组年龄段的冠军。那年我像着了魔一样骑车、跑步、游泳循环训练，甚至参加了切萨皮克半程铁人赛。回家后就把自行车挂在了车库墙上。如果那车库还在，它现在应该还挂着——那是十八年前

a very short stint as a triathlete, and I actually was the age group champion amateur for the for my age group in Florida. And I went so psycho that one year, biking, running, swimming, biking, running, swimming, that I did a Chesapeake half Ironman. And I came home and I hung my bike up on the garage. And if I still had that garage, it would still be there. That was eighteen years

的事了。

ago. Like,

正是这段经历让我深深着迷，因为要长期保持那种训练强度所需的身心韧性至今仍令我震撼。肌酸是你必备的补剂之一吧？

and so, and that's part of what fascinates me so much because the grind and the mental fortitude that it has to take to, to maintain that level of intensity over such a prolonged period of time is just still fascinating to me. Creatine was one of your must haves.

没错。绝对是。而且

Yep. For sure. And

我认为所有40岁以上女性都应该补充肌酸。它早已不是健美专属补剂——其实从来都不是——但现在更不该局限于此。虽然它被归为健美类，但对认知功能大有裨益，价格还非常便宜。

I say every woman over 40 years old needs to be on creatine. It's no longer a bodybuilding supplement. It never has been, but I mean, no longer just for bodybuilders. I think it's fallen into that bodybuilding category. But for cognitive function, it's dirt cheap.

你服用了一水肌酸，对吧？

You took creatine monohydrate. Right?

是的，多少量

Yep. How much

你当时在服用多少？

of that were you taking?

通常五克。然后在比赛季，我会在训练前后各服五克，最多十克。嗯。最近我还了解到它对认知也有益处。

Typically, five grams. And then in, like, competition season, I would be doing five grams pre and post workout, so up to ten grams. Mhmm. And then just recently, I was just learning about the cognitive benefits too. So Yeah.

比如在录播客前，我会服用二十克，然后...对，准备好状态。来的路上我还喝了电解质水和肌酸。

Before I do, like, a podcast or something, I'll take twenty grams of it and just Yeah. Get ready to go. Was sipping on electrolytes and creatine on my way here.

哦，真的吗？是啊。

Oh, were you? Really? Yeah.

在车上喝的。我想我们当时还，

On the car I did. I think we did,

什么，氢水和其他几样东西

what, hydrogen water and a couple other things

就是这样。对，你知道的，在

There you go. Yeah. You know, on

来这儿的路上。

the way in here.

你还提到了复合维生素。嗯。你服用了一种基础复合维生素来打底，主要是补充B族维生素。

You also talked about multivitamins. Mhmm. You had a basic multi that you took, which is to cover the bases, B vitamins.

没错。更重要的是了解到——你比多数人更清楚——如今我们食物中的营养素相当匮乏。是的。而且当你获取营养时，a) 食物中的营养含量远低于过去；b) 当你临近备赛期严格控制饮食时，你甚至没有奢侈的选择余地。

Yeah. Exactly. More so just even learning, like, you know better than most is the nutrients in our food is pretty lacking right now. Yeah. And when you get them, a, nutrients in our food is so much lower than it's been in the past, but b, when you're dieting super strict near the end of prep, like, you don't even have the luxury.

你会开始削减蔬菜和其他食物，因为热量摄入实在太低。每一口食物的选择都至关重要，懂吗？当你的首要目标是摄入足够蛋白质和维持训练所需的能量时，营养摄入肯定不足。所以对我来说，服用复合维生素也是件非常棒的事。

You all start cutting up vegetables and foods because your calories are so low. Everywhere you put it matters, you know? So you're not gonna get enough nutrients when your priority is getting enough protein and and then enough energy to get through your workout. So being able to take a multivitamin for me was also something that was That's super great.

你还谈到谷氨酰胺，这也是我非常推崇的。你当时服用谷氨酰胺是为了什么？

And you you've also talked about glutamine, which I'm also a big fan of. What were you taking the glutamine for?

为了肠道健康。没错。我几乎会在每杯蛋白奶昔里添加至少十克。

For my gut health. Gut health. Yeah. Would throw that into pretty much every shake I had. I'd put, like, at least ten grams into that.

听着。我在播客分享的内容，与核心圈子的分享是不同的。长期关注我的人都知道我在这里毫无保留。但VIP社群才是真正的魔法发生地。想象一下——

Listen. There's what I share on this podcast, and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here. But my VIP community, that's where the real magic happens. Picture this.

你正被精力崩溃、脑雾困扰，或感觉无法达到巅峰状态，却找不到靠谱答案。但真正特别的是：你不仅能获得我的见解。当播客邀请杰出嘉宾时，VIP成员可以提交问题录制专属环节。刚采访完的世界级专家，你能获取针对个人情况的独家建议。

You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak, and you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for a private podcast segment. So that world renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation.

这个板块位于终极人类社群的私密播客区。说到独家资源，你将获得我亲测有效的方案：我花数十年完善的水断食指南、肠道优化策略和晨间惯例。这些不是纸上谈兵。

This section is under the private podcast section in the ultimate human community. And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization, and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory.

这是经过现实检验的有效方法。

This is what works in the real world.

社群全年会发起挑战活动，让你直接对接我和专家团队。每月花费不到100美元，就像拥有私人健康顾问团。健康才是真正的财富，这项投资将终身受益。立即加入VIP社群theultimatehuman.com/vip，释放你的终极潜能。

The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than a $100 a month. Your health is your wealth, and this investment pays dividends for life. Join the VIP community at theultimatehuman.com/vip and step into your ultimate potential.

现在让我们回到终极人类播客。是的。首先，我同意所有这些观点，然后是白藜芦醇，我服用一种昂贵的白藜芦醇形式。白藜芦醇是葡萄籽提取物。这就是为什么很多人说红酒对你有好处。

Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. Yeah. I, I, first of all, I agree with all of these and then resveratrol, which, I take a picey form of resveratrol. Resveratrol is grape seed extract. That's why a lot of people say that red wine's good for you.

你实际上可以去掉酒精，仍然获得益处。

You can actually lose the alcohol and still get the benefit.

是的。多酚和白藜芦醇，以及一些研究说，哦，每天一杯红酒，医生远离我。

Yeah. The polyphenols and the resveratrol and the few studies that were like, Oh, a glass of wine a day keeps the doctor away.

那是

It was

不，不是红酒。是多酚和白藜芦醇。

like, No, it wasn't the wine. It was the polyphenols and the resveratrol.

无论如何，

Either way,

我想他如此投入，你添加了白藜芦醇、姜黄和姜黄素。你摄入了很多电解质。我发现一个有趣的，也是我非常喜欢的，叫做佛手柑。嗯。你服用佛手柑是为了什么？

think he So commits himself you added the resveratrol, turmeric and curcumin. You took a lot of electrolytes. Interesting one that I I found, which I'm also a big fan of, is something called bergamot. Mhmm. And what were you taking the bergamot for?

是为了心血管健康和胆固醇。健美界的重点一直是，如果你在健身，你需要服用这个。

It was for, like, cardiovascular health, cholesterol. The big thing in the bodybuilding community has been just something that was always spoken about you need to be taking this if you're So

你就想，好吧。PD，PDs。

you're like, okay. PD, PDs.

就像，不能错过那个。

Was like, can't miss that one.