埃隆·马斯克的内心世界

但你不可能模仿他，不可能成为埃隆，但你可以撷取他发现和学到的部分，运用他的一些思维模型。

But the thing like you, you couldn't emulate, you couldn't be Elon, but you can take pieces of what he's discovered and what he's learned and apply some of his mental models.

而你应该通过弄清楚什么对你来说是真实的，来决定该做什么。

And the way you should figure out what to do is figure out what's authentic to you.

比如，哪些观点让你觉得：天啊，这太明显了，我早该这么做了。

Like which ones, which ones feel to you if you're like, oh shit, I, I, that is so obvious that I should have already been doing that.

这就像一个提醒，提醒我的灵魂：这才是对的，这才是我觉得正确的，我会把它捡起来，全力去实践。

And this was just the, like the reminder that, you know, my soul needed that this is the right, this is the thing that I feel is right that I'm going to pick up and run with.

这就是它的意义所在。

Like, that's what it's for.

它不是为了肤浅地模仿他，或试图步他的后尘。

You know, it is not to superficially emulate him or try to walk in his footsteps.

它只是一个可能有用的点子自助餐。

It's just a, it's a buffet of, of potentially useful ideas.

这真是个很好的观点。

Now that's a great point.

我请过加农·贝克做客播客，他曾经指导过斯蒂芬·库里和勒布朗·詹姆斯。

I had Gannon Baker on the podcast who he's worked with Steph Curry, LeBron James.

他同时也指导过科比，以及许多顶尖的NBA运动员。

He worked with Kobe, a lot of the top NBA athletes.

他是一名技能训练师，同时也是一位专注于心态与表现的专家。

He's he's a skills trainer, also kind of a mindset type performance expert.

我问他：‘库里有一种多维度的态度，意思是篮球固然重要，但他还有很多其他爱好。’

And I asked him, I was like, hey, you know, Steph Curry has this attitude of he's like multidimensional in the sense that like, yes, basketball is very important, but he also has all these hobbies.

他喜欢打高尔夫。

He's like, he likes to golf.

他还喜欢做各种不同的事情，花时间陪伴家人，拥有丰富的兴趣爱好。

He likes to do all these different things, spend time with his family and has all these hobbies.

而科比·布莱恩特的‘曼巴精神’则完全是另一种极端——专注于单一目标、单一任务，更像埃隆·马斯克那种方式：每天早上醒来，就直接冲上去猛攻当天的任务，哪怕凌晨四点累得要死。

Whereas Kobe Bryant, like the whole Mamba mentality is like this maniacal focus on just like one goal, one task, kind of more of like, I'd say that Elon Musk approach of you wake up every morning and you just fucking go attack today and oh, you're tired at 04:00 in the morning.

我才不在乎呢。

I don't give a shit.

去练习，去锻炼。

Go and practice, go workout.

就是那种方式。

Like kind of that sort of approach.

我就问加农：你推荐哪种方式？

And I was like, Gannon, what approach would you recommend?

根据你的经验，哪种方法效果更好？

Like what what has through your experience, like what has seen better results?

他说：尼克，说实话，适合你的就是最好的。

He was like, Nik, honestly, like whatever works for you, man.

所以我告诉所有我的运动员，你需要找到适合自己的方法，然后去执行，并把它变成你的日常习惯。

And like, that's why I tell all my athletes, like you need to figure out what works for you and then go out and do that and just have that be your daily routine.

有些人更像科比或马斯克那种类型，他们不需要太多动力。

Some people are more of like the Kobe Musk approach where they don't need a lot of motivation.

他们不需要有人来引导他们做这些事情。

They don't need somebody, you know, kind of guiding them through certain things.

他们不需要太多的其他爱好。

They don't need a ton of other hobbies.

他们只想专注于一个目标，然后全力以赴。

They just like to focus on one goal and just get after it.

其他人则更加多面。

Other people are more multi dimensional.

比如他们喜欢像加里·维纳查克那样，我今天早上刚听了他的一个演讲。

Like they like to, you know, Gary Vee, I just listened to a talk from him this morning.

他说，我每晚睡八到九个小时。

He was like, I sleep eight to nine hours a night.

这对我来说非常重要。

Like that's super important to me.

没错。

Right.

你拿这个和马斯克的方式对比，马斯克不睡觉，睡眠对他来说显然不是优先事项，但这是两种不同的方式，对应两种不同的人，他们各自都找到了适合自己的方法。

And you compare that with the Musk approach where it's like, you know, Musk doesn't sleep and clearly not priority for him, but two different approaches, but two different human beings and they both do things that work for them.

所以我特别高兴你提到这一点，因为正如你所说，很多人可能会直接把这些建议、洞察和经验当作‘好吧，我就照着做’，但实际上，这些并不适合他们自身或他们的身体、心理健康。

So I love that you brought that up because to your point, I think a lot of people would just take this advice and these insights and these lessons as kind of just, all right, I'm gonna just emulate this when in reality it doesn't work for them or their body or their mental health.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

通往成功的方式有无数种。

There's, there's, there's so many different ways to win.

你需要找到属于自己的路，而你的路可能是由别人已经拼凑好的部分组合而成的。

And the one that you need to find your way and your way is maybe built of finding pieces that other people have assembled before.

我觉得，原创性其实是个陷阱，对吧？

Like I think, I think originality is a trap, right?

我不认为你应该直接追求原创性。

I don't think you want to directly chase originality.

我认为你应该仔细观察、实验，并精心挑选那些对他人有效的方法。

I think you want really carefully observe and experiment and curate things that have worked for other people.

你会发现，这种模式在音乐、体育、创业等各个领域的顶尖人物身上都存在，即使看似原创的东西，其实也是一种混搭。

And this is, you see this pattern across, you know, greats in, in music and in sports and in entrepreneurship and everything is, even what appears as originality is, is a remix.

你正在执行一项使命，那就是寻找各种碎片，从你发现的、对你有用且最终奏效的元素中，拼凑出属于你自己的马赛克。

And you're on this mission of like seeking out pieces and assembling your own mosaic from, you know, useful pieces that you find that turn out to work for you.

那么，你认为真实性被高估了吗？因为这个词在社交媒体上总是被反复提及。

Do you think authenticity then is overrated because that is the word that keeps getting thrown around on social media.

要做真实的自己，做你热爱的内容，你是怎么想的？

Be authentic, be yourself, do you make content that you love?

你对这个有什么看法？

Like what, what are your thoughts on that?

不，这个词既被滥用，又被低估。

No, it's it's, it is both an abused word and an underrated concept.

因为为了本身而做的事情，总是充满回报的。

Like things things done for their own sake are always are always rewarding.

这个观点我是从里克·鲁宾那里借鉴来的，对吧？

You know, this is I'm I'm stealing this from Rick Rubin, right?

就像他说的，如果一件作品是出于自身价值而创作的，那它就是艺术；当你决定它已完成时，无论外界有何反应，都应完成它。

Like he says, it is art if it's made for its own sake and it should be done and complete by the time you decide it's complete regardless of what the reaction is from the world.

你不是在为观众的反应而设计什么东西。

You're not engineering something for an audience's response.

你是在打造一件让你感到充实并为之自豪的作品。

You are building something that you find fulfilling and are proud of.

这就是我对这些书的看法。

And that's how I think about these books.

我确实投入了精力把它们推向世界，因为我认为，这是我的责任所在，对人们和这个世界都有好处。

Like, I put effort into getting them out into the world because I think, you know, that's, that is part of my mandate and it's good for people and the world.

但即使从来没有人读过这本书，我也完全乐意在过去五年里花时间写它，因为这段与这些思想相伴的时光帮助我成为了我想成为的人。

But I am perfectly happy to have spent, you know, the last five years working on this book if nobody else ever reads it because it helped me become who I want to be by spending this amount of time with these ideas.

无论别人如何评价，我都为这本书作为一件作品、一件艺术品感到自豪。

And I'm proud of this book as a, as a piece of piece of work, piece of art, regardless of what anybody else ever says about it.

如今，我在这条作者之路上已经走了将近十年，我非常清楚地做到了这一点：我对负面评价完全无动于衷，因为我真的不在乎。

And that is that is something that I now, you know, kind of almost ten years into this like author journey have down very, very well is like, am completely unfazed by negative reviews, because I don't I just don't care.

如果有人不喜欢这本书，那我根本不是为他们写的。

Like, if somebody doesn't like the book, then I didn't make it for them.

如果有人喜欢，那当然好。

I didn't if somebody does like it, great.

很高兴你喜欢它。

I'm so glad you like it.

我是为自己写的，如果你喜欢，那就再好不过了。

Like I made it for me and if you like it, wonderful.

这就像锦上添花。

Like that's, that's gravy on top.

如果你不喜欢，那我也不知道，你早该放下它了。

If you don't like it, then like, I don't know, you should have put it down sooner.

我不在乎。

I don't care.

我不是为你写的。

Didn't make it for you.

我不明白。

I don't understand.

有人因为对它的负面评论而生气，这对我来说根本说不通。

It just doesn't even make sense to me to be upset by, by negative comments about it.

真的很荒谬，有人觉得整个世界都是为他们的评判而存在的，认为他们的意见应该影响艺术家的作品。

It's a hilarious thing actually that someone thinks that the whole world was like made for their judgment and that, you know, their opinion should influence an artist's work.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这是一种天真与自我中心的可笑混合，当你以这种方式看待它时，简直让人笑出声。

It's a that's a hilarious mix of naivety and egotism that just when you when you start to see it that way, it is it's laugh out loud funny to me.

为了讨论的目的，在这个播客里，我稍微提出一点不同意见。

I'm a I'm a for the sake of argument in this podcast, I'm a push back a little bit.

我给你举个例子，看看你怎么看。

I'm a give you this this example and see what your thoughts are on this.

我想起一个例子。

Like, an example comes to mind.

Chubbies 刚刚开始的时候，他们制作了想要生产的短裤原型。

So Chubbies, when they were first starting out, they had these prototypes of the shorts that they wanted to obviously make.

他们去了旧金山，把短裤摆在桌上，让人们过来试穿——其实我不确定他们是否真的让人试穿了。

And they went out to San Francisco and they laid them out on the table and they had people come on and I actually don't know if they had them try it.

我猜他们可能准备了便携式更衣室，让人们试穿这些短裤，但关键是他们让人们对第一个原型提出反馈，然后他们想：‘我们怎么才能把这个产品做得更好？’

I'm assuming they had like a portable changing room or something that people could try on these shorts, but they had people like essentially give feedback on the first prototype and then they took that feedback and they they're like, okay, how do we make this product better?

现在，Chubbies 就变成了今天的样子。

And now Chubby is what it is.

那么，你如何平衡‘我不在乎你喜不喜欢这本书’这种心态，和真正吸收反馈、改进产品以更好地服务受众之间的关系呢？

So how do you balance the mindset of, you know, I don't care if you like this book or not versus like actually incorporating feedback into trying to make the product better and to better serve your audience.

你是怎么平衡这两者的？还是根本不去平衡？

Like how do you balance those two things or do you not balance it at all?

哦，我要澄清一下，在撰写这本书的不同版本时，我找了几十位试读读者，不管你怎么称呼他们——早期读者，我都请他们帮忙了。

Oh, I mean, to be clear, I had dozens of beta readers, like early alpha readers, whatever you want call them, like early readers as we worked through different versions of this manuscript that I did.

他们都是我认识并尊重的人，我对他们希望从书中获得什么有清晰的了解。

You know, they they were people I knew and respected who I had a sense of what they would want to get out of the book.

我仔细聆听了他们的反馈，并根据这些反馈做了修改。

And I listened very carefully to their feedback and I made changes based on their feedback.

但这本书的核心理念始终是我的愿景。

But it remained it remained my vision.

我并没有听取所有的反馈。

I didn't listen to all of their feedback.

我也没有采纳每一个建议的修改。

I didn't make didn't make every change that was suggested.

你知道，我认为你始终需要保持开放的心态，认真对待他人的意见。

You know, I think there's there's hugely you always do have to keep your ears open and take people take people seriously.

当你试图为大众消费市场设计某种产品时，这和你想要创作一件让自己感到自豪的作品是完全不同的事情，这两种心态截然不同。

And then it is a very different thing if you're trying to like engineer something for, you know, mass a product for mass consumption versus if you are trying to make something that you're proud of and those are different mindsets.

但我认为，无论哪种方式，都存在各自的陷阱和失败模式，只是表现不同而已。

But I think there's a lot, you know, there's there's a there's traps and failure modes either way that are just different.

我认为，当人们走到人生或事业的后期阶段时，无论他们处于什么领域，往往更倾向于为了自己而做事。

But I think the more the later people seem to get in their arc, you know, whatever, whatever arc they're on, whatever domain they're in, the more they tend to do things for their own sake.

而且很多时候，你会发现，最出色的表演和最优秀的作品，都是出于自身热爱而完成的。

And many, many, many times I think you'll, you'll notice that the best performances, best works are done for their own sake.

它们的成功，是原创性、激情、真实性或卓越性所带来的相对令人意外的副产品。

And they became successful as a relatively surprising byproduct of the originality or the intensity or the authenticity or the excellence.

我经常与作者合作，我们每年在Scribe出版数百本书，我一直在和作者们打交道。

Like I work with authors, we publish hundreds of books a year at Scribe and I work with authors all the time.

很多作者陷入了一种误区，试图直接追求原创性。

And a lot of them get stuck chasing to trying to directly chase originality.

他们说：天啊，这个领域太拥挤了。

And they say, God, this category is so busy.

我不知道自己有没有什么独特而有价值的东西可以贡献。

I don't know if I have anything good, you know, unique to add.

我的书不够原创。

Know, my book's not original.

但这种想法是错误的目标。

And it's like, that is the wrong goal.

去他的原创性。

Like fuck originality.

原创性是个虚假的神。

Originality is a false God.

追求原创性是错误的目标。

It is a bad thing to aim for.

无论你是写小说还是非虚构作品，几乎不管你的目标是什么，你真正需要的是真实性和卓越性的结合。

Whether you're writing fiction or non fiction, like almost no matter what your aim is, what you want is a mixture of authenticity and excellence.

你希望有极高的质量标准，并且自己为之感到自豪，因为否则你只是在追逐一个幻影，永远无法满足，这反而显得讽刺。

Like you want a really high bar for quality and you want to be proud of it yourself because otherwise you're just you're chasing a phantom and you always will be and you'll never be satisfied with the results in paradoxically.

我认为，如果你直接追逐那些目标，反而更难获得你想要的结果。

I think you're less likely to get the results that you're chasing if you chase them directly.

是的。

Yeah.

而且要明确的是，我其实同意你的观点。

And to be clear too, like I actually agree with your viewpoint.

我做这个播客的方式很大程度上就是这样，你知道，总会有人给我发私信或者发邮件说，你应该请某某人来你的播客，你应该往这个方向发展。

Like that's a lot of how I approach this podcast is, you know, I'll have people, you know, DM me or shoot me emails like, oh, you should have shown like, you know, so and so on your podcast and this is a direction you should take it.

我说，我其实不太想这么做。

I'm like, I don't really wanna do that.

因为这对我来说一点都不有趣。

Like that that doesn't seem fun to me.

而且，如果你不喜欢这个播客，或者不喜欢这一集，我也没强迫你，我没把你锁在椅子上逼你非看不可，你可以随时关掉，去看点你真正喜欢的东西。

Like, also kind of like the mindset that you have of like, if don't enjoy the podcast, if you like this episode, I'm not forcing you, I'm not like chaining you to your chair and being like, you have to watch this like click off, like go watch something that you actually enjoy.

那你干嘛坐在这儿跟我抱怨，好像整个播客都是围绕你的个人口味转的？

Like why are you sitting here complaining to me about it as if like this entire podcast revolves around your your specific taste?

所以，我确实很认同你说的很多观点，但就像……

So I do agree with a a lot of what you say, but like, it's like

硅谷有个笑话是说，如果你总是听AB测试的结果，最后只会做出一个色情网站。

The joke about this in Silicon Valley is that if you always listen to AB tests, you'll end up making a porn site.

没错。

There you go.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

There you go.

确实如此。

That's true.

所有路最终都通向色情内容。

It's like all roads lead back to porn.

对。

Yeah.

你是不是真的只是在回应人们的反应，迎合最原始的人类欲望？

Like, are you, are you truly just like reading the response and responding to the most base human desires?

在这个过程中，你又有多少是依靠自己的品味呢？

And then how much are you using your own taste along the way?

是的。

Yeah.

我有个很好的例子，我曾问过比利森博士。

I had a perfect for this is I had Dr.

比利森是ESPN非常知名的人物，堪称大学篮球专家，已经从事这一行很久了。

Billison, who is very prominent ESPN personality, college basketball guru really has been doing it for a while.

我问他：你是怎么应对批评的？

And I asked him, I was like, how do you respond to criticism?

因为你是个公众人物。

Because you're you're a public figure.

我肯定你收到过很多批评。

You I'm sure get a lot.

他回答说：如果不是具体且有建设性的批评，我完全不会在意。

And he's like, if it's not specific constructive criticism, I don't pay attention to it at all.

如果有人给我留言或私信，只说‘你太差了’、‘你真烂’，这种话根本毫无价值。

If somebody, you know, writes me a comment or DM and it just says like, you suck, you're terrible, That brings me no like, that brings you no value.

就像我跑来对你说：埃里克，这本书太糟糕了。

Same as if like I came to you and I said, Eric, this book is terrible.

好吧，不错。

Like, okay, cool.

你知道的，我过着我的生活

Like, you know, I'm life on

写关于埃隆的文章，我早就准备好要面对大量仇恨了。

extremely prepared to get a lot of like hate for writing about Elon.

我评论区里已经收到了。

I get it already in my comments.

而且，很明显，人们说的任何话都跟你无关。

And the, I mean, it's just so obvious that nothing people say is about you.

那永远都是关于他们自己。

It's always about them.

世界上任何事情都会成为人们投射自己价值观的靶子。

Like anything in the world is it just becomes a foil for people to project their own values onto.

这又回到了我们之前说的，比如巴姆·阿德巴约的例子，他们根本不是真的在关心巴姆，也不是真的在关心科比。

And that that goes back to sort of the, what we were saying about people, the your Bam Adebayo example, is like, they're not trying to this is not actually about Bam and it's not actually about Kobe.

这是他们在表达对篮球运动的怀旧之情，或是对他们所选择的篮球英雄的情感。

It's them trying to express something about their nostalgia for the game or about their chosen basketball hero.

这甚至根本不是什么理性思考。

And it's not even like a remotely rational thought.

这是一种基于他们身份的情感需求，需要向外表达出来。

It is like an emotional thing based on their identity that they need to express out into the world.

你知道，从这个角度看，挺好，真的挺好。

And you know, through that lens, like good, like, good for them.

这是一种表达自我的好方式，但我并不需要背负这种情感。

It's a way to, like, good way to express yourself, but like, I I I don't need to carry that.

我不需要负责去化解这份负担。

You know, it's not my responsibility to fix That burden.

是的。

Yeah.

去强化你的身份认同。

To reinforce your identity.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yep.

当人们评论我的内容，并给我一些具体的反馈，比如‘尼克，你说得太多了’，

And and that's, you know, when when people if people comment on my stuff and they give me like a specific, like, yo, Nik, you say I'm a lot.

或者‘这次采访在某个具体时刻特别尴尬’，

Or, hey, the interview was super awkward in this specific instance.

我觉得你可以问一个更好的跟进问题，

I think you could have asked a better follow-up question.

我会认真考虑的，

I would take that into consideration.

我真的会，

I really will.

就像你当初接受读者对你书的早期版本反馈时一样，我始终开放于建设性的批评。

Like, I'm always open to constructive criticism just like you were when you were getting feedback from people who read the early versions of your book.

你确实认真考虑了，然后我猜你回头想想，好吧，这真的是我觉得需要改进的地方吗？

You took it into consideration and then you, I'm sure kind of looked back and said, all right, is, is this truly something that I feel like needs to be fixed?

对吧？

Right?

你还在上面加了自己的看法。

Like you added your own kind of two cents on top of it.

然后这决定了你是否将这些反馈融入到书籍的最终版本中。

And then that kind of led to whether or not you incorporated that feedback into the final version of the book.

我对播客也是这么做的：我真的说我很多吗？

And that's kind what I do with the podcast is like, do I really say I'm a lot?

这真的是我需要改进的地方吗？

Do I, is this really something that I could work on?

如果是，我就会去改，并感谢那个人提出的批评。

And if it is, then I will fix that and I will thank that person for their for their for their critiques.

但如果你只是跑来跟我说，嘿，这太烂了。

But if you just come at me and you say, hey, this sucks.

你最糟糕了。

You're the worst.

你太差了。

You're terrible.

我对此无能为力。

I can't do anything with that.

我是说，这完全没什么建设性。

Like I, there's nothing constructive.

我对这种批评无从下手。

There's nothing productive I can do with that criticism.

根本什么都做不了。

Nothing at all.

所以我就觉得，这毫无意义。

So I just, it's pointless.

是的。

Yeah.

而且你知道，这听起来几乎像是一场辅导对话，真正帮助别人进步需要深思熟虑和用心。

And it's, you know, this goes to it sounds like a coaching conversation almost like it really takes thought and care to help someone else get better.

而对于那些真诚地这样做、基于对产品本身的热爱并希望它不断改进而提出有意义的观察、评论或建议的人，

And, and to the people who do that genuinely and, you know, have a meaningful observation and comment or, recommend something out of love for what the product already is and a desire to see it continue to get better.

这是一件非常了不起且慷慨的事。

Like that is an amazing and generous thing.

你知道，我觉得硅谷的另一种说法是：反馈是一种礼物。

You know, I think another Silicon Valley is, it was like feedback is a gift.

而这个循环确实非常有帮助。

And that, that loop does really, really help.

所以是的，保持开放的心态，同时建立一个非常严格的筛选或优先级机制非常重要——区分哪些人是真心想帮忙，至少在努力提供帮助， versus 哪些人只是在发泄他们自己需要处理的情绪。

So yeah, it's a, it's a very, it's a very good thing to like keep your ears open and have a really tight filter or triage for like this person means well and is help being helpful or at least trying to be helpful versus like this person is projecting some shit that they need to deal with.

我不会让这些影响我，因为很多人真的很难把自己暴露出来，因为他们没有建立这样的筛选机制。

And I'm not gonna, and I'm not gonna let it affect me because a lot of people, you know, really have a hard time putting themselves out there because they don't have that filter in place.

他们很容易被一堆毫无建设性、也从未有人打算具有建设性的信息塞满头脑。

And they it's really easy to get sort of your head clogged up with stuff that nobody ever certainly isn't constructive and nobody ever intended it to be.

哦，人们在网上说的99%的内容，要是当面根本不会这么说。

Oh, and 99% of the stuff that people say online, they would never say to your face like that.

这就是现实。

That's the, reality of it.

比如，如果你在街上碰到我，我觉得你不会走过来对我说：嘿，你的播客太烂了。

Like if you saw me on the street, I don't think you'd come up to me and say, Hey, your podcast sucks.

大多数人不会这么做的。

Most people wouldn't do that.

所以这也是我常想的：社交媒体并不总是反映真实生活。

So that's kind of what I think about too is like social media in, you know, it's not always reflective of real life.

在大多数情况下，它根本不是真实的。

Certainly in most cases actually is not reflective of No.

真实

Real

真人秀式的对抗现实。

PVP reality show.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一场生死对决。

It's a death match.

是的。

Yeah.

埃里克，我确实想问一下，回到埃隆·马斯克的话题，如果一个人只是浅层了解马斯克，看过他的推文，当然知道他是谁，也知道他创办的公司，那么对于这样的人，什么样的入门资料最适合了解埃隆·马斯克呢？

Eric, I did want to ask, so getting back to Elon Musk, if someone is just surface level familiar with Musk, has seen tweets, obviously knows who the guy is, knows the companies that he's built, What would be like a good starter pack for someone, for like Elon Musk?

比如，有哪些他的话或理念值得推荐？

Like what are some pieces of either quotes or teachings?

你之前提到了一些，但能不能给我一个包含三到五个要点的‘马斯克入门包’？

You went over a couple of them, but something maybe like a batch of three, four or five, wherever you want to take it of like, Hey, this is, this is Musk's starter pack.

这些是你应该从马斯克身上学到的最重要理念。

This is, these are the most important teachings that you should kind of get from, from Musk.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，答案很可能是那本书。

I mean, the the, the answer is probably the book.

它只有五个小时的阅读量，非常轻松易读。

Like it only, you know, it's a five hour really easy read.

但为了让你感受一下，我翻到目录部分。

But just to like give you a flavor of it, I'm just flipping to the table of contents.

我有一本自己标记得满满的书，贴满了便利贴之类的。

I've got like a really like marked up version of my own book with like a bunch of sticky notes and stuff.

这本书大致分为几个部分。

I like the book is sort of broken up into a few parts.

第一部分是我们刚才讨论的，最令人惊讶的是马斯克的使命驱动本质。

The first being like what we talked about is the most surprising thing, just like the purpose driven nature of Musk.

这与其说是关于他本人，不如说是他作为一个年轻人，在大学时期如何思考这个世界上什么是重要的，哪些使命值得用一生去投入。

And it's not about him so much as he's like, here's how I, as a young person, like in college sort of went about figuring out what I thought was important in the world and what missions were worth dedicating my life to.

我认为，说我们正面临一场意义危机，并不为过，对吧？

And I think there's a, I don't think it's an overstatement to say there's like a crisis of meaning, right?

人们不再像以前那样信任各种机构了，比如宗教一直在衰落。

Like people don't put the same faith in institutions, like religion's been on the decline.

很难对当今我们那些公共领袖产生热情。

It's hard to get excited about, you know, many of the sort of public leaders that we have.

埃隆的观点是，我们普遍都能认同的一件事是保护意识生命，当然也包括所有生命。

And Elon comes at this is like, look, the the thing that we can generally all agree on is preserve preservation of conscious of of all life and certainly conscious life.

所以，人类其实是好事。

So, like, humans are a good thing, actually.

环保也很重要。

Like, environmentalism is also important.

是的。

Yes.

我们希望保护环境。

We wanna conserve, like, the environment.

我们希望逆转气候变化。

We wanna reverse climate change.

我们希望让一切实现电气化。

We wanna electrify things.

我们希望产生更多能源，但必须是清洁能源。

We wanna generate more energy, but clean energy.

我们希望通过在火星建立基地来保护所有形式的生命，这样如果一颗彗星撞击地球，我们就不会像恐龙那样灭绝。

And we wanna preserve all forms of life by having, you know, an establishment on Mars so that, you know, if a comet hits Earth, like, we don't get taken out like the dinosaurs do.

我们已经接近这个目标了，但还没有完全实现。

And we're close to that, but we're not quite there.

所以，让我们先把这项工作完成吧。

So let's just, like, get that work done.

此外，还有许多其他方面，比如通过技术帮助四肢瘫痪者、截瘫患者和盲人重见光明。

And then there's, you know, a bunch more, you know, helping quadriplegics and paraplegics and the blind see through through technology.

这本质上就是技术和工程让世界变得更美好、提高生活水平的能力。

It's basically, like, the ability of technology and engineering to make the world a better place and raise the standard of living.

能够发现这些改进的机会，并真正去追求它们。

The ability to sort of see see those opportunities for improvement and really go after them.

如果非要我用三个词来概括这一切，那就是高努力的乐观主义。

Like if I had to distill this whole thing down into three words, it would be high effort optimism.

如果我们对未来保持极度乐观，但也必须努力确保技术持续进步、世界不断变好，因为如果你不这样做，不仅不维持，还不持续投入，事情就会崩塌，文明也会衰退。

Like if we we can be really optimistic about the future, but we also have to work hard to make sure that technology still advances and the world gets better because if you don't, if you don't not just maintain, but keep investing, like things will fall apart and civilizations can decline.

我们在历史上已经看到这种情况发生过很多次了。

We've seen it happen so many times in history and that that happens.

然后是他的一些思维工具。

So then there's a bunch of his tools for thought.

第二部分是关于他极其严苛的工作 ethic 以及他是如何组建团队的。

Part two is all about his, like the ultra hardcore work ethic and how he builds teams.

在团队中灌输一种疯狂的紧迫感，以及实现这一点的一些方法。

The instilling like a maniacal sense of urgency in teams and sort of some of the playbook for doing that.

接着是特斯拉和SpaceX的一些惊险经历。

Then stories from from Tesla and SpaceX, which are a bunch of close calls.

第四部分则是对当前我们面临最大问题的行动呼吁，展望未来可能有多美好，以及这一代人必须应对的一些风险，这些就是我们的使命。

And then part four is sort of call to action on, like, the biggest problems that we face, how good the future could be, some of the risks that we that we have to work on, you know, in this this generation has as our missions.

书的最后部分是69条马斯克方法，这些就像是他的座右铭。

And like the very end of the book is the the 69 core Musk methods, which is just kind of like his mantras.

让我想想，什么是最好的部分？其实没有哪个部分是最好的。

Like, let me see if I what's a good like, the best part is no part.

最好的流程就是没有流程。

The best process is no process.

要主动积极。

Be proactive.

除非你主动掌控战略，否则你永远不会赢。

You'll never win unless you take charge of setting the strategy.

我觉得这是个很好的观点，非常具有普适性。

Like, I think that's a good, that is a very generalizable thing.

如果你只是被动接受一切，那你必须主动规划自己的生活、游戏的走向和训练的方式。

Like if you just take what comes to you, you gotta be proactive about how you want to structure your life, how you want a game to go, how you want your training to go.

非常随意地说。

Very off the top.

你可以自学任何东西，广泛阅读并请教专家，这些都是被低估的方法。

Like you could teach yourself anything, read widely and talk experts, underrated things.

就像埃隆并没有火箭工程的学位。

Like it's not like Elon had a rocket engineering degree.

他只是读书、与人交流，并在过程中逐步弄明白。

Like he just read books and talked to people and figured it out along the way.

人们常常低估了自己学习新事物的能力。

And people really underestimate their ability to learn new things.

是的。

Yeah.

我只是在听你谈论这本书。

I'm just listening to you talk about the book.

我已经开始期待终于能读到它了。

I'm already getting excited to, to finally read it.

那么，你觉得他是怎么看待幸福的？

So, how do, how do you think he, how do you think Musk approaches happiness?

你有没有了解到他对幸福的看法？

Like, did you gain any insight into what he thinks about happiness?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为他根本不会去思考幸福。

I don't think he thinks about happiness at all.

我认为他实际上是有意避开。

I don't think he, he actually seems to go out of his way.

他根本不关心自己的主观感受，反而常常刻意让情况变得更糟。

He does not care about his like subjective experience and actually seems to go out of his way to make it worse in many ways.

他看待问题的方式就像一位战场统帅，属于那种思维模式。

He, he kind of comes at this like a battlefield general, like school of thought.

当他谈到特斯拉最艰难的时期时，他说：我希望明确一点，我施加的压力和别人一样大。

And so he talks about when, when Tesla was going through some of its hardest times, he's like, I wanted it to be clear that I was as hard as everybody else is pushing.

我承受的痛苦和他们一样多。

I was pushing harder as much as they were suffering.

我承受得更多。

I was suffering more.

而且他会告诉你，关于他睡在工厂地板上的那个著名故事。

And he would, you know, there's a sort of famous story about him sleeping on the factory floor.

他说的不只是我睡在工厂里。

And he's like, it's not just that I slept at the factory.

而是我睡在工厂地板上，就在机器下面，那里又吵又臭，水泥地也硬得要命。

It's that I slept on the factory floor, like under a machine where it was loud and smelly and hard on the concrete.

而且我故意选在人们能看见的地方这么做，因为我想让他们知道，我并不是。

Like, and I did it where people could see me doing it because I wanted them to know that I was not.

我跟那些在那里工作过的人谈过，他们说，马路对面就有家酒店。

And I've talked to people who worked there and they're like, was a hotel across the street.

那能省他十分钟，但那不是重点。

It would have saved him ten minutes, but that wasn't the point.

重点是展示他愿意忍受不适，身先士卒，并且承受更多。

The point was demonstrating his willingness to be uncomfortable and to lead from the front and to suffer more.

当大家都在批评亿万富翁的时候，几年前他说，好吧。

And when everybody was criticizing billionaires, like, you know, a few years ago, he said, fine.

他卖掉了所有东西，卖了所有房子，处理了所有财产，搬进了一间极小的住宅。

He sold sold everything, sold all his houses, sold his stuff, moved into like a tiny home.

他的净资产仍然很高，因为他持有股票，但他对财富的运用方式完全不同，从不参与那种奢华浮夸的消费行为，比如从不拥有游艇。

He still has a high net worth because he owns the stock, but he's done so much with, you know, with his wealth and does not engage in like these massive, crazy sort of conspicuous consumption things like doesn't own a yacht.

他只是不断加码，专注于打造下一个项目。

He just keeps doubling down and building the next thing.

别忘了，他自己就是个一穷二白的移民，白手起家赚到了钱。

And, you know, and let's not forget that he like made his own money as a like broke immigrant coming in himself.

是的。

Yes.

他的家人境况不错，但他和父亲的关系非常紧张。

His, his family had done well, but he has a really strong relationship with his, a really strained relationship with his father.

他背着一背包书，带着几千美元来到北美，就在抵达后的七八年内，通过第一家公司的成功赚到了他的第一个两千万美元。

And, you know, he landed in the North America with a backpack full of books and a few thousand dollars and made his first 20,000,000 through his first company within, you know, the first like eight years of being here, seven, eight years, something like that.

他从学生贷款和一个小额支票账户，自己打拼到了两千万美元。

He went from like student debt and a small checking account to like 20,000,000, himself.

所以那些说他是继承人、拥有钻石矿之类的说法，

So like the sort of claims about like, Oh, he's a, he's an heir, you know, with a diamond mine.

这些普遍看来像是他父亲为了诋毁他，或者政治对手所散布的谎言，这非常值得深入探究，去理解每个人发言背后的动机和微妙之处。

Like those are in general seem to be lies perpetrated by his father trying to sort of discredit him, or, or, you know, political opponents is a very interesting, it's a very interesting thing to like be deep into and like try to understand all the incentives and the nuance of who's saying what and why.

是的。

Yeah.

我非常欣赏运动员和企业家的一点是，他们往往非常清楚地知道自己是在因为热爱而打球或创业，纯粹出于对这项事业的热爱。

One thing that I certainly appreciate about athletes and entrepreneurs, I think, share this is like, it's very clear when an athlete or entrepreneur is either playing a game or building a business or whatever just just because they love it, just for the love of the game.

诺瓦克·德约科维奇有句名言，有人问他：你为什么还打网球？

And like, Novak Dobbs has this quote where some guy asked him, like, why do you still play tennis?

你都38岁了，快40了。

Like, you're 38, almost 40 years old.

你为什么还要继续打这项运动？

Like, why are you still playing this game?

他说，我会一直打下去，直到击球本身不再让我感到快乐为止。

He's like, I'm a keep playing until literally hitting the ball just doesn't isn't fun to me anymore.

而且，当球很软的时候。

And, like, when it's soft.

我喜欢击球。

I like hitting the ball.

是的。

Yeah.

他说，我就是爱打那个该死的网球，这就是我继续打下去的原因。

He's like, I just love hitting that freaking tennis ball, and that's why I keep playing.

而且，就像你提到的马斯克，你能看出他真的热爱创业。

And, like, to your point about Musk is, like, you can tell he just loves entrepreneurship.

他热爱做生意。

He loves building business.

他一直在创办企业。

He builds building businesses.

他喜欢为自己和他人创造价值。

He loves, you know, creating value for himself and for others.

他这么做是因为热爱这项运动。

He's doing it for the love of the game.

就像我说的，我认为这确实值得称赞。

And like, that's why I think is is honestly commendable.

比如，我喜欢阅读、研究，和像这样的人交谈，纯粹是因为热爱自己正在做的事情。

Like I I love reading and researching and, you know, talking to people like that, just purely for the love of whatever it is that you're doing.

你只是因为喜欢才去做这件事。

You're just doing it because you love it.

这太棒了。

I it's it's fantastic.

其中之一是

One of the

我从这一点得到的感悟是，有很多时候，放弃才是理性且显而易见的选择。

things I took away on this note is like, there are so many times that it would have been is it's not just like the the rational, but the obvious thing to do is to quit.

他面临如此不利的条件，却多次孤注一掷。

Like, the odds were so against him, and he put so much on the line quite a few times.

接着我们谈到了他目标驱动的特质，他真心渴望实现这些使命，愿意为此牺牲一切，只为给这些使命哪怕一丝成功的可能。

Then we talked about sort of his purpose driven nature and him really wanting to achieve these missions and, you know, everything that he would sacrifice to give these missions even a small chance of success.

但这让我产生了一个非常好的问题，我至今仍在思考：你该如何选择一个你根本不会考虑放弃的使命？

But the question that it sort of gave me that I think is a really good one, and I'm still reflecting on it is how do you choose a mission that you wouldn't even conceive of quitting?

就像你根本不可能阻止德约科维奇击出下一拍。

Like, these are the things like you could not stop Djokovic from hitting that next ball.

你也不可能阻止迈克尔·乔丹投出下一球。

You know, you couldn't stop Michael Jordan from shooting the next shot.

我只是在想，是否有些人天生就具备不可摧毁的意志，无论身处何种环境都能保持这种特质，还是说，只有当你置身于某种特定环境中，才能获得这种极致的清晰感——愿意焚舟破釜，甘愿承担任何风险。

These are just, I wonder whether there are people, whether indomitable will is this like trait that exists no matter the environment or whether there's an environment that you could put yourself in that you, you become, you get this level of clarity, you'll burn any boat, you'll take any risk.

无论面对任何挑战，你都会勇往直前。

You'll move forward despite any challenge.

就像埃隆说的那句话：绝不要放弃。

You, you are like, you know, this line that Elon says, like, do not give up.

除非我死了或者完全丧失行动能力。

I'd have to be dead or completely incapacitated.

你根本不可能让我放弃。

You simply cannot make me give up.

这种力量非常强大，因为当人们感受到这种能量时，他们会聚集在它周围。

And that's so powerful because as people feel that energy, they ally around it.

当你高举这面旗帜，成为那个无论发生什么都会不断爬起、继续前进的人时，你会激发他人，促使他们想要加入其中，想要帮助你实现这个使命。

And when you're carrying that flag and you're that person who's like, we'll keep getting up and keep moving forward no matter what that activates people and that catalyzes them and they want to be a part of that and they wanna, they want to help you achieve that mission.

所以这真的给了我一些值得思考的东西。

And so it really has, you know, it's given me something to, to think about in that.

你是不是在玩对了运动？

Like, are you, are you playing the right sport?

你是不是在创办对的公司？

Are you starting the right company?

如果你根本无法想象放弃它们，那你是不是在进入对的关系？

Are you entering the right relationships if you cannot even conceive of quitting them?

这是个非常好的问题。

That's a, that's a really good question.

我第一个想到的是，我不知道这是否相关，但这就是我脑海中冒出来的第一个想法。

And the first thought that came to mind, I don't know if this is related at all, but this is just the first thing that came to mind.

迈克尔·乔丹其实写过一本书。

Michael Jordan actually wrote a book.

我不认为很多人知道这一点。

I don't think many people realize this.

他亲自写了这本书。

He wrote his own book.

这本书于2005年出版，整本书都是他以第一人称讲述，比如‘我做了这件事’。

It was released back in 2005 And literally the whole book is him talking, you know, first person like, hey, I did this.

当时我是这么想的。

This is what I thought in this situation.

他确实提到了一段内容。

And he talks about actually, there's a passage in there.

书中有几段是他妈妈写的，他妈妈讲述了迈克尔·乔丹的童年，说他是个极其懒惰的孩子，特别懒。

There's a couple paragraphs from his mom and his mom is talking about his childhood, Michael Jordan's childhood and how was like an incredibly lazy kid, like super lazy.

如果没有父母的管教，他可能会整天看电视。

Like, like if he didn't have discipline from his parents, like he would have just watched TV all day.

我记得读到这段时心想，这根本不像迈克尔·乔丹。

I remember reading that and I was like, this does not seem like Michael Jordan.

这个以勤奋、专注著称的人，就是我们之前提到的‘曼巴精神’和那种狂热专注的人。

This guy who's, you know, known for hard work, dedication, you know, the mamba mentality that we talked about earlier, the maniacal focus.

我觉得，这完全不像迈克尔·乔丹。

I'm like, this does not sound like Michael Jordan.

然后他说，‘直到我拿起篮球为止。’

And then he said, he was like, that is until I picked up a basketball.

当别人都觉得打篮球是件苦差事，训练很难熬时，对我来说，这完全就是一场游戏。

And while everyone else seemed it seemed while everyone else thought that basketball was like this chore, like practice was difficult to me, it was all just a game.

我打篮球纯粹是因为觉得好玩，享受这个游戏带来的乐趣。

And I was literally just playing basketball because it was a game and I had fun playing this game.

所以，虽然别人都觉得我非常努力，我也确实很刻苦，但对我来说，我根本没觉得那是努力，因为那对我来说只是乐趣。

So while everyone else thought that I was working hard and I was super hard working, I was like, I didn't really understand it because to me it was just fun.

那是我只想一直做下去的事情。

It was something that I just wanted to keep doing.

所以我不知道这是否真的回答了你的问题。

So I don't I don't know if that doesn't necessarily answer, you know, your question at all.

老实说，我可能给不出一个很好的答案，但我确实认为，我们之前谈到的这一点非常重要：去玩你喜欢的游戏，把某些时候只是看作一场你正在努力提升的游戏。

I quite frankly don't think I have a good answer for it, but I do think there's a lot to be said to what we talked about earlier, just playing these games that you enjoy and just viewing it in some instances as just a game that you're playing and trying to level up in.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这很有趣，一方面能把它看作游戏从而享受其中，另一方面又能足够认真地对待它。

I think it's an interesting mix of like the ability to view it as a game so that you have fun and then at the same time taking it seriously enough.

没错。

Right.

找到一个游戏，然后认真对待它。

Like find a game and take it seriously.

要明白，任何认真的事情都像一场游戏，因为它能激发你的创造力。

Understand that anything serious is a game like, because it makes you more creative.

它能让你更容易持续前进。

It makes it, you more able to sort of, keep moving.

这样就不会感觉那么沉重。

It doesn't feel so heavy.

这是《内在驱动力》吗？

Is it Driven From Within?

是那本书吗？

Is that the book?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yep.

就是那本书。

That's the book.

对。

Yep.

我买的是电子版，我想我是在Kindle上看的。

I bought it on I think I have it on Kindle or or something.

我没有纸质版，但这本书非常精彩。

I don't have a physical copy of it, but it's a fantastic read.

而且没多少人知道这本书。

And not too many people know about it.

我其实是从大卫·森拉那里听说的。

I actually found out about it from David Senra.

所以我听他的一个播客时，他提到了这本书，我当时就想，哦，我从来不知道乔丹写过一本书。

So I was listening to one of his podcasts and he mentioned it and I was like, oh, I never knew that Jordan actually had a book that he wrote.

是的。

Yeah.

森拉是个很好的例子。

This is a good, I Senra is another good example.

你知道吗，你能从他身上感受到那种能量。

You know, he you could feel that energy from him.

他说，我的退出策略就是死亡。

He's like, my exit strategy is death.

你得从我冰冷的尸体手里才能夺走这个麦克风。

You will pry this microphone from my cold dead hands.

我会一直做播客，直到我说不出话为止，然后我就去学手语。

Like I will podcast until I can no longer speak and then I'll learn sign language.

那种动力是实实在在的。

Like that drive is palpable.

你也应该去发现，你知道的，它确实改变了我的投资方式。

And you should find, you know, it certainly changed how I invest.

我想找到那些拥有这种动力的人。

Like I wanna find people with that drive.

我也想找到那些具有这种坚定信念的项目、关系和人。

I also wanna find the projects and relationships and people where like, have that level of conviction.

这个项目就是那种类型。

Like, this is one of those projects.

我差点死了一次。

Like, had a near death experience.

我正赶往医院的路上，肺突然塌了。

I was like, my lung collapses on my way to the hospital.

当时胸口很痛。

Was having chest pains.

这已经是第二次发生了。

Like, was the second time it happened.

那周、那月都很艰难，但就在那一刻，我的人生清单形成了。

It was a rough week, rough month, but like that my bucket list formed like in that, that moment.

我很生气，因为我以为自己会带着这本书没写完就死去。

And I was like, I was pissed that I was thought I was gonna die without having finished this book.

我不是宗教信徒，但那一刻，我离祈祷最近——我心里想的是：我还有事没做完。

And I was like, you know, I'm not a religious person and like, but the closest I come to praying was that moment of like, I got shit to do.

你得继续下去，因为我不会让这个项目半途而废。

Like you keep going because I'm not gonna leave this project unfinished.

我当时在医院，就在要做手术矫正这个问题的那天。

And I was, I was in the hospital, like the day I had, I was put under for surgery to correct this thing.

我接受了全身麻醉。

I was under full anesthesia.

那天晚上我坐了起来。

I sat up that night.

还不能下床。

Couldn't leave the bed yet.

仍然吸着氧，还打着止痛药，但我打开了笔记本电脑，继续写这本书。

Still on oxygen, still on painkillers and like got on my laptop and was working on this book.

在康复的头几个月里，我投入的时间最多，因为我别的什么都做不了。

And I, the highest volume of hours I put in was like in those first months of recovery, was like, I couldn't do anything else.

我连上厕所都带着笔记本电脑，它从没离开过我身边。

I was carrying the laptop to the bathroom with me and never left my side.

我花了无数个小时沉浸在这本书里，满心都是要把这件事做完、让它面世的强烈动力。

I was just hours and hours and hours and hours into this book and just like feeling that motivation to get this thing done and great and out into the world.

从那以后，我还花了两三年时间，才真正达到我认为再也无法让这本书变得更好的地步。

It's still like two or three years more work after that, to really get it to the point where I thought I cannot come up with a way to make this book any better.

是时候把它发布到世界上了。

Like it's time to put it out into the world.

我很感谢你分享这些，因为这确实是一种极其深刻的见解。

That I appreciate you sharing that because that is, that, I mean, that's an an extremely insightful perspective.

几天前，我看到一条推文。

I I read a tweet a couple days ago.

它说，对一个20岁的人来说，最好的事情之一就是经历一次濒死体验。

It was like, one of the best things that can happen to, you know, a 20 year old is to have a near death experience.

很多人听到这话可能会想：你在说什么啊？

And a lot of people are gonna are gonna hear that and be like, what the hell are you talking about?

但我以前在这档播客里就讨论过这个观点。

But I I've talked about in this podcast before.

死亡是一种奇怪的事情，你知道它终将到来，但却无法真正理解它。

Death is like one of those weird things where you know it's coming, but you don't really understand it.

或者，如果你过多地思考它，就会陷入一种恐慌：天啊，我总有一天会死。

Or like, if you think too much about it, you just go down this like spiral of like, oh my god, I'm gonna die one day.

这一切都终将结束。

This is all gonna be over.

但你可以换个角度看待它，利用它来激励自己：是的，你终有一死，时间非常有限，所以你最好充分利用它。

But there is like a reframe of that to where you can use it to your advantage where yes, you are gonna die one day and your time is pretty limited and so you better make the most out of it.

这很有趣，因为我不确定我之前有没有在播客里分享过这件事，但没有。

And it's it's interesting because I I don't know I've shared if I've shared this on this podcast, but about no.

实际上，去年我经历了一次接近死亡的体验，但程度远不及你所经历的，我也不是想在这里做比较。

Actually, last year, I I call it a near death experience, not to the level of, you know, what you went through nor am I trying to draw parallels here.

但只要你觉得有帮助，那就无所谓。

But It it doesn't matter as long as it's like useful for you.

你知道，我们没必要去竞争谁更接近死亡。

Like, you know, there's we don't need to just like compete on who got closest to death.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

但我以为自己心脏病发作了。

But like, I thought I was having a heart attack.

我当时想，天啊，这真的发生了。

Like, was like, oh my god, like, this is this is happening.

我真的醒过来，以为自己心脏病发作了。

Like, I I legitimately woke up and I was like, I'm having a heart attack.

我根本不知道，那是我第一次严重的焦虑发作。

Little did I know that I was having a my first, like, massive anxiety attack.

但在那一刻，我以为是轻微的心脏病发作。

But in the moment, I I thought it was a little heart attack.

所以我去了急诊室，整个过程挺折腾的。

So I went to the ER, it was this whole thing.

但在那一刻，正如你所说，你突然有了某种清晰的认识：如果真的发生了呢？

But in that moment, to your point, you kinda you kinda gained this clarity of like, okay, like what if this actually happened?

如果那就是终点呢？

Like what if what if that was it?

对于我如今拥有的这段被赐予的额外时光，我究竟想做些什么呢？

Like what do I wanna do with now this time that I've been blessed with, you know, this additional time that I have?

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

这是一种非常有趣的视角，如果你能把它转化为自己的优势，可能会极其有力。

It's it's a super interesting perspective and I think if you reframe it to your advantage, it could be extremely powerful.

所以我很感谢你分享这一点，因为确实，这真的是

So I appreciate you sharing that because yeah, it's it's

是的。

yeah.

这其实很有意义，你看，几乎每一个伟大的宗教、许多伟大的思想家和冥想者，都会反思死亡，这是一件非常普遍的事情。

This is I mean, you you see the utility of reflecting on death and like basically every great religion and many of the great thinkers and many of the great meditators, like this is a super, super common thing.

乔布斯的毕业演讲在这方面做得非常好。

Steve Jobs' commencement speech does a really good job with this.

你知道，这是一种直面恐惧的方式，就像我们之前谈到的，通过反思——我认为他是这么说的——你终将一死，来揭示日常那些微小恐惧的完全无关紧要。

Like, you know, you it is another way to sort of, stare the fear in the eyes, like that we talked about earlier, like to, to reveal the total irrelevance of your small fears day to day is to reflect on, I think the way he says it is like, you're going to die.

你已经一无所有了。

You are already naked.

你没有什么好害怕的。

You have nothing to fear.

去立刻做你想做的事吧。

Like go do what you want to do immediately.

记住生命短暂，但你依然可以走得很远。

Remembering that life is short, but you can cover a lot of ground.

这真的是一场非常棒的演讲。

Like it is a really, it's a really great speech.

是的

Yeah.

不，我完全同意。

No, I, I completely agree.

我最近读了斯科特·亚当斯的书《重塑你的大脑》，这是一本非常棒的书。

I, I recently read Scott Adams' book, Reframe Your Brain, which just fantastic book.

我之前其实不太了解他，虽然我知道他是《呆伯特》漫画的作者，但对他其他作品以及他在YouTube频道上谈论的心态理念并不熟悉。

And I didn't really know, I mean, I knew him from the Dilbert comics, but I didn't really know much about his other work and some of the mindset stuff that he talked about on his YouTube channel.

当然，他最近去世了，令人非常难过，但他的书《重塑你的大脑》开篇第一段就是他带着狗散步，抱怨说每天都要带这只狗出去散步，真是烦死了。

Obviously very sad that he passed away recently, but his book, Reframe Your Brain, literally the first passage of the book is him taking his dog out for a walk and complaining about it and saying how every day I have to take this dog out for a walk and it's whatever.

好像这件事毫无意义。

Like there's no utility to it.

它就是拉屎、撒尿，然后我们回家。

He just goes, he poops, he pees and then we come back in.

然后他了解到一个鲜为人知的事实：当狗闻气味时，会获得巨大的多巴胺刺激，这对它们来说是一种极其愉快的体验。

And then he like read about this little known fact that apparently when dogs sniff, it gives them this like huge dopamine boost and is like a super fun experience for them.

所以他当时说，哦，这就像我刷Instagram、TikTok或者X时获得多巴胺刺激一样。

So he was like, oh, this is like when I go on Instagram or TikTok or X and I get my dopamine hits.

他接着说，现在我要把遛狗重新理解为对我的狗来说极其美妙的事情。

And he was like, now reframe walking my dog as this like incredibly amazing thing for my dog.

而且这也给了我一个十到十五分钟的窗口期，来调整我的姿势和呼吸。

And also like, it gives me this chance, this like ten, fifteen minute window to like work on my posture and work on my breathing.

所以我把这件曾经让我感到痛苦的事，重新理解为不仅对我自己、也对我的狗非常有益的事情。

So like I reframed this thing that was once this pain into something that is actually very useful, not only for myself and my dog.

我也经常想到这个故事，它和我们之前关于死亡的讨论紧密相关——你可以用积极的方式重新诠释它。

So I think about that story a lot too, and it kind of ties into our conversation about death and how you can reframe it to your advantage.

是的。

Yeah.

我之前有一次特别棒的对话，实际上自从我上次参加这个播客后，我和纳瓦尔进行了一次长达四五个小时的深入交流。

I had a great, actually I think since I've been on this podcast last, I had a good, really long conversation with Naval, like four or five hours.

我们录制并更新了有声书。

We recorded and updated the audio book.

我们讨论过的一个关键点是，你能进入脑海的最重要观念之一，就是你能够控制自己对事物的解读。

And this is one of the things that we talked about is just like the single most, one of the most important ideas you can get into your head is the fact that you can, you can control your interpretation of things.

你可以掌控事物的意义，而这决定了你的整个世界观。

You can control the meaning of things and that determines your entire worldview.

事实上，根本没有你没决定为问题的问题。

Like, there, there are essentially no problems that you don't decide our problems.

这真是一个既有趣又富有启发性的深入思考方向。

And that is just such a interesting and useful rabbit hole to go down.

当然，人们可以就这一点提出很多细微的讨论。

And I, you know, there's a, there's a lot of small knits that people can make about that.

但归根结底，这是一种很有用的信念——对自身感知事件拥有主动权，是人生的一种绝佳方式。

But the end of the day, like it is a useful belief and having agency over your perception, your own like perception of events is an incredible way to go through life.

我绝不希望换别的活法。

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

是的。

Yeah.

那是你上传到你的YouTube频道的视频吗？

Was that the, I think you uploaded to your YouTube channel, right?

是的，它在YouTube上，没错。

It was like Yeah, it's on YouTube and Yeah.

如果你现在购买有声书，你会得到它的扩展版，但你也可以在我的播客或YouTube频道上收听所有相同的新内容，我的播客叫《Smart Friends》。

My If you buy the audio book now, you'll get the like extended version of it, but you can listen to all the same new stuff you know, on my podcast, which is called Smart Friends or the YouTube channel.

名字一样。

Same name.

太棒了。

Love it.

对。

Yeah.

我记得我曾在YouTube上听过，当时我就想，你和纳瓦尔真是

Remember I remember listening to it on YouTube and I was like, I mean, you and Naval, it's like

太有趣了。

So fun.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我得想象一下，你写了一本关于某人的书。

I have to imagine, like, you write a book about someone.

我的意思是，我假设如果你有机会的话，你会想对马斯克做类似的事情。

I I mean, I'm assuming you would wanna you know, if the opportunity presents itself, like, do something similar with Musk.

你一定很想坐下来和他聊聊，了解他的思维方式，探讨一些这些话题。

Like, you would love to sit down with him and just, like, kinda talk through, you know, kinda his mind sound, some of these things.

是的。

Yeah.

那会非常酷。

It would that would be really cool.

我觉得，也许甚至比采访他更有趣的是，我其实想先跟踪他一段时间，然后再去采访他。

I I think almost, maybe even more interesting than like interviewing him would be like, I would wanna follow him for a while actually and then interview him.

因为我最好奇的是，我觉得我已经听过他说过很多话了。

Because I'm most curious to sort of like, I've I feel like I've heard him say so many things.

我会问他很多问题，但我真的很想了解他在具体情境下的内心想法。

There are a lot of questions that I would ask him, but I would really like to sort of try to learn what's going on in his head in context.

我觉得我最感兴趣的是：跟着他一天，观察他做决定，然后问，为什么、怎么想的，为什么、怎么想的，拆解一下你的思维过程给我听。

I think that's like the thing that I'm most curious about is like, follow for a day, watch and make some decisions and then ask, you know, how, why, how, why, how, why, like break down your, your thought process for me there.

那会非常棒。

That would be, that'd be awesome.

说实话，如果有人能制作一个节目，比如播客或者YouTube系列，只是跟拍一位前运动员或前企业家一整天，记录下他们生活的这一面，那会非常棒。

And honestly, like I, that would be a fantastic, like if somebody just created, don't if it'd be a I guess it would be a podcast or like a YouTube series where it's just like, I followed around, you know, ex athlete or ex entrepreneur for a day and film that side of it.

然后自然过渡到采访，问：当时那个具体情境下，你在想什么？

And then it leads into like an interview and be like, oh, what were you thinking in this specific scenario?

埃里克，你可能真发现了点什么。

That's actually Eric, you might be onto something.

这主意不错

That's a good

这个想法不错。

idea right there.

我简直不敢相信，尤其是体育领域，我觉得体育新闻的现状与它本可以达到的丰富性和趣味性相比，简直平淡得离谱。

I can't believe, like, sports in particular, I feel like the the state of sports journalism is like so bizarrely flat compared to Yep.

你知道的，体育报道的潜力本可以多么深厚、多么有趣。

You know, what it what it could be and how rich and and interesting, you know, the the potential is.

你可以想象，对于比赛有不同的评论风格——我们习惯于电视评论员以电视评论的水平进行解说，但我认为真正的专家会想要更深入一层的评论。

Know, you can imagine very different flavors of commentary on on top of games like for like, you know, we're used to sort of TV commentators commenting at a TV commentary level, but I think like true experts want one level of commentary.

你知道，体育博彩者想要的是另一层次的评论。

You know, the sports betters want another level of commentary.

普通人可能更愿意看喜剧演员来解说比赛，而不是其他任何东西。

The average person probably would maybe rather watch comedians commentate the game like than than anything else.

而且，正如你所说，赛后采访的深度远远不够。

So like, and then to your point, like the depth of post game interviews is not not very deep.

你知道的？

You know?

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

嗯，我觉得这有点是当前社交媒体状态的体现。

Well, I think I think it's a little bit of just the current state of social media.

而且，我的意思是，每个听众都这样。

And, I mean, every listen.

每个人都有自己的目标，都在试图获取浏览量和点击量。

Everyone has a bottom line, and everyone's trying to get views and get clicks.

不幸的是，当前体育媒体的状况是，通常那些夸张的见解和离谱的观点才能获得更多的浏览和点击。

And, unfortunately, the current state of sports media is such that usually the hot takes and the outlandish views are the ones that get views and get and get clicks.

球队和球员应该更深入地直接发声。

The teams and the players should be going direct much more deeply.

比如，你知道的，国王应该聘请专门的人，来做真正有深度、更深入的内容，由他们自己发布。

Like the the, you know, your well, like the king should hire their own person who does like really thoughtful, much more deep stuff that they're, they're putting forth themselves.

他们不需要依赖任何人，他们自己就有分发渠道。

Like they don't need, they have their own distribution.

他们没必要让所有新闻媒体去做两分钟的剪辑，或者搞那种带有自身动机的新闻发布会。

They don't need to let, you know, all of the, the news outlets and stuff like do a two minute clip or run a press, press junket with like their own motivations.

这对我来说简直太疯狂了。

It's just like, it's crazy to me.

坦白说，我很好奇，在这个具体情况下，你做这个决定背后的理由是什么？

I'm surprised honestly, to your point that there's not more like in this specific scenario, what, like, what was the rationale behind your decision?

因为体育界有很多决定，运动员们会做出大量细微的决策。

Cause there's a lot of, there's a lot of decisions in sports, a lot of micro decisions that these athletes make.

其中很多可能是潜意识的，对吧？

And a lot of it might be subconscious, right?

是多年训练形成的本能，但有些也可能是有意识的，了解这些会很有趣——比如，如果你是潜意识做出这个决定的，那当时的训练背景是什么？

Just from years of practice, but some of it may be conscious and it'd also be interesting to get into like, all right, like if you did make this decision subconsciously, like what was, like what type of, what was the practice?

你过去几年做了哪些努力，才达到能潜意识做出这种决定的水平？

What was the, you know, what work had you been doing over the years to get to a point to where you can make that decision subconsciously?