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Hello.
这是本周艺术动态。
It's the week in art.
我是本·卢克。
I'm Ben Luke.
本周,巴塞尔迈阿密海滩艺术展向我们揭示了艺术市场备受吹捧的复苏真相?
This week, what does the Art Basel Miami Beach Fair tell us about the art market's much vaunted recovery?
此外,卢浮宫危机加剧,以及纽约大都会博物馆的海伦娜·谢夫贝克特展。
Plus, the crisis at the Musee du Louvre deepens and Helena Scherfbeck at the Met in New York.
《艺术新闻报》美洲区主编本·萨顿与艺术市场编辑卡比尔·贾勒尔亲临巴塞尔艺术展迈阿密海滩展会现场,探讨顶级交易与展会整体氛围。
The art newspaper's editor in chief in The Americas, Ben Sutton, and art market editor, Kabir Jaller, are in Miami Beach for Art Basel's latest edition and discuss the top sales and the wider mood at the fair.
随着巴黎卢浮宫员工投票决定罢工,我与驻巴黎记者文森特·诺斯就该博物馆自十月抢劫案后日益恶化的危机进行了对话。
As staff at the Musee du Louvre in Paris vote to strike, I talked to Vincent Noss, our correspondent in Paris, about the deepening crisis at the museum following the robbery in October.
本周推荐作品是海伦娜·谢夫贝克1914至16年创作的《挂毯》。
And this episode's work of the week is Helena Scherfbeck's The Tapestry from 1914 to '16.
这幅作品出现在本周纽约大都会艺术博物馆开幕的芬兰艺术家新展览中。
It features in a new exhibition of the Finnish artist's work opening this week at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.
我与展览策展人迪特尔·艾默里讨论了这幅>这幅画>这幅>这幅画。
I talk to the curator of the exhibition, Dieter Amory, about the painting.
别忘了您可以在theartnewspaper.com订阅《艺术新闻报》。
Don't forget that you can subscribe to the art newspaper at theartnewspaper.com.
也请订阅本播客及我们的姊妹播客《画笔之下》,在任意收听平台均可订阅。
Please also subscribe to this podcast and our sister podcast, A Brush With, wherever you're listening.
最新一期《画笔之下》收录了与卡达·阿提亚的对话。
The latest episode of A Brush With features a conversation with Kada Atia.
请在苹果播客上为我们评分或评论,您还可以购买我的著作《艺术何为?》
Do give us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts, and you can buy my book, What is Art For?
可通过线上渠道及各大优质书店购买。
Online and at all good bookshops.
作为本年度最后一场大型艺术博览会,巴塞尔迈阿密海滩艺术展于本周开幕,此前十月巴黎巴塞尔艺术展气氛活跃,十一月纽约拍卖会也创下惊人成交额。
Now the final major art fair of the year, Art Basel Miami Beach, opened this week after an upbeat edition of Art Basel's Paris Fair in October and some spectacular sales at the November auctions in New York.
那么,在经历了多年的失望之后,这一年是否以艺术市场的全面复苏告终?
So has the year ended with an art marketing full fledged recovery after years of disappointment?
我们美洲区的主编本·萨顿和艺术市场编辑卡比尔·贾拉正在迈阿密,他们将告诉我们VIP开放日的发现。
Our editor in chief in The Americas, Ben Sutton, and our art market editor, Kabir Jallah, are in Miami, and tell us what they discovered on the VIP opening day.
卡比尔,我认为大家这周以来的普遍感受是,过去几个月确实让人安心不少。
So, Kabir, you know, I think everyone's sense coming into this week was that, you know, we've had a couple of reassuring months.
艺术市场复苏的议论一直不绝于耳。
There's been sort of chatter of a rebound in the art market.
人们觉得伦敦弗里兹艺博会和巴黎巴塞尔艺术展都进展得相当顺利。
There was a sense that, you know, Freeze London and Art Basel Paris had both gone quite well.
当然还有两周前纽约的拍卖会,我们见证了多项破纪录成交,包括克里姆特肖像画成为拍卖史上第二高价作品。
Obviously, there were the auctions in New York just two weeks ago where we saw some huge records, including the second most expensive work ever sold at auction, the Klimt portrait.
所以有种感觉是,我们终于迎来转机,过去三年低迷的市场不再那么惨淡,或许形势正在好转。
So there has been this sense that, like, finally, we're turning a corner and this down market of the last three years is finally becoming not quite so dreary, and maybe things are on the up and up.
从首日情况和画廊报告的销售数据来看,你是否觉得这种势头确实存在,这种动能是真实的?
Do you get a sense from this first day and from the sales that have been reported by by the galleries here that that that's sort of holding true, that that momentum is is real?
我认为在高端市场,确实有足够多活跃的高额交易表明,11月发生的情况是:那些在市场边缘观望数年的财富终于入场,因为出现了真正特别且稀有的作品,这些作品短期内不会再次出现在市场上。
I think at the top end, there were definitely enough brisk high level sales to suggest that, what happened in November in which you saw that wealth that was sitting on the sidelines of the market for a couple of years and then came in because there were really special and rare works that were not gonna come on the market again for a while.
他们介入证明了只要有足够优秀的作品,市场依然存在活力。
They stepped in proving that, you know, there was still activity in the market if there was good enough work.
是的。
Yeah.
我感觉到一些以最高价位交易的一线画廊今年比去年开心多了。
I've gotten a sense that some of the highest level galleries trading at top prices are a lot happier this year than they were last year.
豪斯·朗格沃斯的总裁马克·佩奥说了一句相当犀利的话,称圣诞节提前到来,并表示画廊今天的交易量比上次迈阿密海滩艺术博览会期间的全部成交量高出40%。
Mark Peo, the president of Hauss Rungeworth gave a pretty punchy quote saying that Christmas came early and he said that the gallery had traded 40% more work today than it shifted over the entirety of its last art, Bars on Miami Beach.
我们还应指出,在首日和整体销售报告中,总是那些赢家喊得最响亮。
We should also mention that it's always the winners that shout the loudest when it comes to these first day and overall sales reports.
我曾与顾问亚历克斯·格劳伯交谈,他指出他注意到了表现参差不齐的情况。
I was speaking to the adviser Alex Glauber and he pointed out that he had noticed an uneven performance.
所以确实有些画廊表现非常出色,但也有许多画廊表示这一天令人失望。
So definitely some galleries had done very well, but a lot of other galleries said the day was underwhelming.
他谈到自己的客户时表示,他们仍然保持谨慎态度,非常审慎。
And he was speaking about his own clients and that they were still exercising caution and being, you know, very deliberate.
所以这种回归到过度消费的状态——这种状态在过去十年、十五年里一直定义着迈阿密艺术展——目前尚未重现。
So this return to like excessive consumption that has really defined art bars in Miami for the last, you know, ten, fifteen years has not returned.
格劳伯确实
Glauber does
指出,这对艺术市场可能并不健康,至少对画廊的整体盈利不利。
make the point that this might be not healthier for the art market if not for the overall bottom lines of galleries.
而且,要知道,为了补充这一点,我回顾了2024年的报告,这些报告再次来自
And, know, just to add to that point, was looking back to the 2024 reports that again that came out from
首日展会,而今天大多数接受公开采访的画商都会说,这是巴塞尔迈阿密海滩艺术展非常糟糕的一年。
the first day, which most dealers that you speak to today publicly on record will say that it was a really bad year at Art Basel Miami Beach.
但你仍然会看到许多这些画商在第一天的销售表现强劲、出色。
And you still see a lot of those dealers being like robust sales, great sales on the first day.
所以对这些说法都要持保留态度。
So take all of this with a huge pinch of salt.
对。
Right.
一切都得经过一番修饰,你得学会读懂字里行间的意思。
Everything has to be kind of massaged and you have to sort of like read between the lines.
我认为这不仅适用于巴塞尔迈阿密海滩主展会的销售情况,我们还应该提到本周在这座城市还有许多其他展会同期举行,包括'无题'迈阿密海滩展和NADA迈阿密展,两者都在前一天开幕。
And I think that's true of not only the sales at the main fair at our puzzle Miami Beach, but we should also mention that there are many, many other fairs happening around the city this week, including both Untitled's Miami Beach and Nada Miami, both of which opened the day before.
它们试图通过提前开幕来从这场巨型展会前抢占先机。
And so try to kind of benefit from getting out early before the mega fair.
同样地,首日的销售报告往往显得非常乐观,但确实值得回头再审视。
And likewise, you tend to get very buoyant sales reports on the first day, but, yeah, it's worth going back.
拍卖会始终是个难以把握的晴雨表,尤其是因为例如它们的成交率极低,但与此同时,第三方担保金额却可能创下了历史新高,至少是近几年的峰值。
The auctions are always gonna be a bit of a difficult barometer, not least because, for example, they had extremely low buy in rates, but at the same time, I think the highest third party guarantees we'd seen in possibly forever, but certainly in a couple of years.
因此,要理解高端市场之外的艺术市场健康状况相当困难。
And so it's difficult to sort of understand the health of the art market beyond that top end.
我认为日间拍卖的表现看起来相当乐观。
I would say that looking at the day sales, that was pretty promising.
竞标深度不错,即使有第三方担保,成交价也相当可观。
There was a depth of bidding and pretty good prices made even when, they won third party guarantees.
卡比尔,你说得很对,显然二级市场——也就是拍卖和二级市场画廊——并不总能完美反映市场状况,因为这很大程度上取决于供应情况,比如重要遗产进入拍卖会,以及人们是否愿意出手他们的珍贵藏品。
You make a good point, Kabir, obviously, which is that the secondary market, which is to say auctions and and secondary market galleries, aren't always a perfect barometer of where the market is at because so much of it has to do with the supply and, you know, major estates coming to auction and then people being willing to part with their trophy lots.
这并不一定能告诉我们一级市场——即经销商销售在世艺术家直接从工作室出来的新作——是否遵循同样的动态规律。
That doesn't necessarily tell us what the primary market that is dealers selling works by living artists, fresh from a studio is not necessarily shaped by the same dynamics.
我认为今年巴塞尔艺术展迈阿密海滩站一个有趣的现象是,展会组织者特别强调他们重新调整了几个专业展区的位置——这些区域原本位于会议中心的角落,需要穿过大型画廊展位才能到达——现在被安排在主入口之一附近。
And I think one of the interesting things this year at Art Basel, Miami Beach, that the fair's organizers have made a pretty concerted effort to point out is that they have actually repositioned a couple of the the sort of specialized sectors of the fair that used to be kind of in the corner of the convention center that you really had to sort of like walk quite a ways past the kind of mega gallery booths to reach are now positioned right at one of the the main entrances to the fair.
Positions和Nova展区现在变得非常显眼,这些通常是新兴画廊参展的区域。
That's the positions sector and the novice sector are now like very prominent, and these are sectors that typically kind of more emerging galleries are showing in.
所以他们一直在强调,他们正在尝试弗里兹艺术展已经采取的做法:大力推广年轻画廊,并试图通过这些项目吸引藏家,而不是直接将他们引向高古轩和卓纳这样的大画廊。
And so they've sort of been making the case that they're trying something that Freeze has already been doing, which is like really like putting forward younger galleries and trying to engage collectors with those programs rather than just funneling them straight to your Gorgosians and Zwerners.
你觉得目前为止这个策略有效吗?
Do you feel like that's been effective thus far?
说实话我并没有太注意到这个变化。
It didn't really I didn't notice it so much.
我的意思是,迈阿密海滩会议中心相比伦敦弗里兹艺博会或巴塞尔艺术展巴塞尔站,出入口要多得多。
I mean, the Miami Beach Convention Center has quite a few exits and entrances compared to say, for example, Freeze London or even Art Basel Basel.
因此人们确实经常从四个角落的入口进入。
And so people often do just enter from all four corners.
所以年轻画廊占据通常为大型画廊保留的位置这一特点并不明显。
So there wasn't that noticeable feature of the younger galleries are sort of taking the positions that were normally reserved for the houses and the.
话虽如此,这与其他巴塞尔艺术展确实形成鲜明对比。
That being said, it's certainly a contrast to other art Basel fairs.
我指的是巴塞尔和巴黎两站,它们的举办场地——会议中心或大皇宫——都是双层结构,大型画廊总在一楼,你会明显感觉到财富不会往楼上流动。
I'm talking about both Basel and Paris in which the convention centers or the grand palet that they're taking place in, they're two stories and the larger galleries are always downstairs and you get that sense that the wealth doesn't travel up.
没错。
Right.
而且,我们收到巴塞尔和巴黎两站的报告都显示,新兴画廊确实因此受到影响,因为最大的藏家最终并没有去他们的展位。
And, you know, we had reports of both Art Basel just gone and then also in Paris that emerging galleries did kind of suffer from this because, yeah, the biggest collectors didn't really go to their stands ultimately.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以我理解巴塞尔艺术展为何想为新兴画廊提供这种机会。
So I can see why Art Basel would want to sort of offer this to emerging galleries.
我不认为这对人们参观艺博会的方式产生了很大影响。
I don't think it had a huge effect on how people are traversing through the fair.
我想问的是,从你的观察来看,我们已经看到艺博会参展商和组织方发布了不少销售公告。
And I guess I wanted to ask, you know, from your sense, we've seen now quite a slew of of sales announcements from the dealers of the fair and from the fair organizers themselves.
在已售出和目前尚未售出的作品中,有什么让你感到意外的吗?
Is there anything that sort of surprised you in what has been sold and and maybe also what hasn't been sold thus far?
到目前为止,
So far,
画廊报告的最高价作品是大卫·卓纳以550万美元售出的格哈德·里希特画作。
the top work that has been reported by the galleries is David Zwirner sold Gerhard Richter painting for $5,500,000.
我记得卓纳画廊通常不会报告二级市场销售情况。
I don't think that Zwirner typically reports secondary sales.
他们展位上确实有一件杰夫·昆斯的雕塑作品,这也反映出昆斯在四大顶级画廊间游走的现状
They do have a Jeff Koons sculpture on their stand, which also speaks to Jeff Koons sort of bouncing between all four mega galleries
对。
of Right.
甚至有几家非四大顶级画廊,我好像在本届艺博会上至少看到他的作品出现在四个不同展位,这有点不寻常。
There's even a few non of the the top four galleries that have I feel like I've seen his work in at least like four different booths this this fair, which is kind of unusual.
我还想指出,高古轩画廊报告售出了一幅罗伊·利希滕斯坦1977年的作品,但未公开价格。
I should also point out that Gagosian, they reported the sale of Roy Lichtenstein work from I think 1977, and they haven't given a price.
高古轩通常不会向媒体或公众披露价格。
Gagosian doesn't disclose prices to the press or publicly.
但类似尺寸稍大的作品曾在2017年苏富比以约2400万美元成交。
But it's very similar works, a little bit bigger, sold for about $24,000,000 at Sotheby's in 2017.
当时估价在1000万至1500万之间。
It was estimated at 10 to 15.
所以我推测高古轩今天完成了一笔八位数的交易。
So I imagine that Gagosian made an 8 figure sale today.
话虽如此,就展位作品的价位范围而言,我们尚未进行全面统计。
That being said, in terms of the price range of the works that have been brought to the stand, we haven't done a comprehensive overlook of it.
但通常情况下,如果一件作品估值超过约1500万美元,我们会很快听到相关消息。
But typically, if a work is valued more than about $15,000,000, we're going to hear about it quite quickly.
是的。
Yeah.
回顾往届巴塞尔迈阿密艺术展,即便是在被认为市场低迷的年份——比如去年和前年,你依然能看到至少2000万美元的作品。
And previous editions of Art Basel Miami Beach, even those taking places in years that were considered to be a downturn like last year and the year before that, you did see works from at least $20,000,000.
举例来说,豪瑟沃斯画廊就以这个价位售出了奥古斯丁的作品。
Say, for example, Hauser and Wirth bought Augustine of that price tag.
有画廊带来了一幅标价4500万美元的弗兰克·斯特拉作品。
A gallery brought a Frank Seller for $45,000,000.
显然,这类作品的成交高度依赖于市场供给。
Obviously, works of this nature are extremely based on the supply side as well.
没错。
Yeah.
话虽如此,我还没见过那种级别的标价。
That being said, I don't think I've seen that level of price tag.
最让我惊讶的作品其实是一幅弗里达·卡罗的画作。
The most surprising work that is being offered to me is a Frida Kahlo actually.
它标价高达1500万美元。
And it has one of the highest price tags, $15,000,000.
令人惊讶的倒不一定是价格本身。
And it's surprising not for the price tag necessarily.
弗里达·卡罗目前在市场上正迎来高光时刻。
Frida Kahlo is having a huge moment in the market right now.
她的明星地位正在快速攀升。
Her star is fast ascending.
上个月她刚以5470万美元创下女性艺术家拍卖纪录。
She broke the record just last month for a woman artist at auction, $54,700,000.
但这幅作品真正令人惊讶的是它的尺寸极小。
However, what's surprising about this work is it is absolutely tiny.
画作高度仅有约六厘米。
It's about six centimeters high.
这幅作品由加利福尼亚一家名为温斯坦的画廊展出。
It's being shown by a gallery from California called Weinstein.
而且这是弗里达·卡罗自画像中唯一的一幅微型画。
And it's the only miniature of Frida Kahlo's self portraits.
但我确实觉得,一幅我都能直接放进口袋的作品标价5000万美元,
But I do think that, yeah, $50,000,000 price tag for a work that I could literally put in my pocket.
嗯,本来就是设计成可以放进口袋的尺寸。
Well, was designed to be put in a pocket.
对吧?
Right?
关于它创作背景的题词故事相当引人入胜。
The story about sort of why it came to be in its inscription is pretty fascinating.
是的。
Yes.
这幅画的正面是我们熟悉的弗里达形象,穿着红色花卉图案的upji(墨西哥传统上衣)。
So the front of the painting shows the Frida that we all know in a red flower upji.
但如果你看背面,上面刻着'致巴托利,玛拉的爱'。
But if you look in the back of it, it's inscribed with, To Bartoli, my love from Mara.
巴托利是她生命最后十年的恋人。
And Bartoli was her lover in the last decade of her life.
她和巴托利会互相交换信件,那些用代号签名的炽热情书。
And her and Bartoli would trade letters to each other, extremely passionate letters signed with code names.
这样如果她的丈夫迭戈·里维拉截获了这些信,会以为她只是在与一位女性朋友通信。
So if Diego Rivera, her husband ever intercepted them, he would think that she was corresponding with a female friend.
所以,是的。
So it yeah.
凯莉的故事也同样精彩。
Carrie's a wonderful story as well.
这幅画2011年在苏富比以未公开价格私下成交,但估价大约在80万到120万美元之间。
It was bought at Sotheby's in 2011 for an undisclosed price privately, but it was estimated about between 800,000 to 1,200,000.0.
所以这涨幅相当可观。
So it's quite the markup.
如果它真能接近1500万美元的标价,我想就算能卖出去,折扣也会很大。
If it makes anywhere even near its $15,000,000 price tag, I imagine it will be heavily discounted if it sells at all.
从艺术史的角度,我想转向一个非常前沿的话题——除了重新调整布局外,巴塞尔艺术展新增了一个他们称之为'展区'(而非'板块')的10号项目,专门展示数字艺术,紧邻展示超大艺术品的Meridian展区。
From something sort of art historical, I wanna pivot to something very cutting edge, which is that in addition to sort of rejiggering its floor plan, Art Basel has added a new I think they're calling it a section, not a sector, 10, which is a new project devoted entirely to digital art, which is laid out right next to the Meridian section, which is the fairs section for very large art.
很有趣看到他们选择在这个时机拥抱数字艺术。
It's kind of interesting to see them sort of choosing this moment to embrace digital art.
要知道,过去五年我们见证了艺术市场与数字艺术之间一种奇怪的关系,尤其是2021到2022年NFT疯狂投机热潮及其戏剧性崩盘。
You know, I think the last five years, we've seen a really strange relationship between the art market and digital art with, obviously, the kind of insane speculation driven NFT boom in sort of 2021, 2022, and it's very dramatic collapse.
现在感觉我们正对数字艺术在当代艺术体系中的地位及其重要性进行更冷静的评估,比如在系统和概念艺术的语境下。
And now it feels like we're sort of having a more sober assessment of digital art's place in the sort of contemporary art canon and its significance, you know, in the context of, like, systems and conceptual art.
而现在这个展览确实以某种前所未有的方式将其奉为焦点。
And now you have this fair really, like, putting it kind of on a pedestal in a way that it hadn't really been before at Art Basel.
你对新设立的10号展区有什么看法?
What was your reads on the new zero ten secondtor?
我在那里时,现场简直人山人海。
So when I was there, it was absolutely packed.
如果要设立这样一个展区,迈阿密可能是最合适的地方。
And if there was ever a place to have this kind of section, it would probably be Miami.
大量科技富豪在此落户,包括杰夫·贝索斯。
A large amount of tech wealth has set up shop here, including Jeff Bezos.
是啊。
Yeah.
就这个展区的实质内容或营销策略而言,它某种程度上是将数字艺术家和数字艺术从业者从边缘地带引入主流。
In terms of what this section kind of really is or how they're marketing it, it's sort of bringing digital artists and digital practitioners in from the margins.
所以他们试图在某种程度上将其制度化。
So they're trying to sort of institutionalize them in a way.
或许有必要描述一下展出的作品类型——虽然有几块大型LED屏展示着环境变幻的光影效果,这种作品可能连我这样的外行都能想象出来。
And it's maybe important to sort of describe the kind of work that's on show because while there are a couple of big LED screens showing sort of ambiently shifting lighting, which is something that a lay person, myself included, might just sort of conjure up.
如果问我艺术展中的数字展区该是什么样,这里主要展示的是通过软件代码或计算系统创作的作品。
If you were to ask me what a digital section at a fair looks like, it's primarily work that's made using software code or computational systems.
而这些作品的最终呈现形式也可以非常传统。
And that output can effectively also be very analog.
所以实际上有相当数量的作品是墙挂雕塑甚至绘画。
So you actually have a decent amount of work that is things like wall hanging sculptures or even paintings.
这实际上关乎艺术家的创作意图和方式。
It's really about the intention and the way in which the artist created it.
因此基本上,它是基于数据的。
And so basically, it's based on data.
话虽如此,数字艺术家经历了非常疯狂的五年。
That being said, digital artists had a really wild five years.
这并不是因为数字艺术在过去五年才突然出现。
And it's not because digital art just came out of nowhere from the last five years.
这完全与NFT泡沫和狂热有关,这些主要依附于数字艺术。
It's entirely to do with the NFT bubble and craze that attached itself primarily to art that is digitally focused.
值得一提的是,这个展区是由NFT交易平台OpenSea赞助的。
And it's worth saying that this section is sponsored by OpenSea, an NFT trading platform.
因此几乎所有作品在某种程度上都与NFT相关。
And so virtually all the works do pertain to NFTs in some way.
所以它们大多与NFT相关,但其中相当一部分作品——我认为这是本节更有趣的部分——
So most of them come with NFT, but quite a lot of them, and I think this is more interesting part of this section.
它们探讨了技术本身、其历史、区块链的潜力,同时也可能指出了它的局限性。
They discuss the technology, the history of it, the potential of blockchain, but also perhaps pointing to its limitations as well.
因此这些作品带有一种微妙的观念性边缘。
And so you have this small conceptual edge to these works.
我将谈谈本节的两件作品,一件我非常喜欢,另一件则不太合我意。
I'll speak about two works from this section, one which I really liked and one which I did not like.
但或许这是不可避免的?
But which is maybe unavoidable?
确实如此。
Absolutely.
这可能是本届艺博会上讨论度最高的作品。
Probably the most talked about work from this fair.
那么我们就先来聊聊它吧。
So I guess we'll talk about that first.
是Beeple。
It's Beeple.
没错。
Right.
这个人跟早期NFT热潮有着密切关联。
Somebody who's intimately tied to that earlier NFT boom.
确实如此。
Exactly.
如果你认识一位NFT艺术家或数字艺术领域的创作者,那很可能就是Beeple。
If you know one NFT artist or a digitally focused artist, you probably know Beeple.
连我父亲都知道Beeple是谁。
Even my dad knows who Beeple is.
他创作了一个装置艺术,或许可以称之为动态雕塑。
He's made an installation of, I guess you could call them kinetic sculptures.
实际上那是一群机械狗,身上装着埃隆·马斯克、马克·扎克伯格以及Beeple本人等超写实人物头像。
Effectively, it's a bunch of robotic dogs and attached to them are hyper realistic heads of people like Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and Beeple himself.
这些狗四处走动,偶尔停下来,实际上是在‘排泄’一个NFT。
And so these dogs are moving around and occasionally they stop and effectively excrete an NFT.
每只狗售价10万美元,共有两个版本,当天就全部售罄。
Each dog costs a $100,000, and there are two editions, and they were all sold out by the end of the day.
Beeple描述道
Beeple describes
除了杰夫·贝索斯的那只,据称是不出售的。
Except for except for the Jeff Bezos one, which is allegedly not for sale.
哦,我明白了。
Oh, I see.
就是这样。
There you go.
我还得补充一点,除了科技大亨,里面还包括艺术家。
I should also add that in addition to tech moguls, there are also artists in there.
有一只安迪·沃霍尔狗和一只毕加索狗
There's a there's a Warhol dog and there's a Picasso dog
是的。
Yes.
也是。
As well.
实际上,本,你说得很有道理,因为我无意中听到人们在和别人讨论这件事。
Actually, that's a really good point, Ben, because I I was overhearing people speaking about it to someone else.
基本上,他想表达的是,这些科技巨头实际上比政客拥有更大的权力,能决定我们看到什么。
And basically, he's wanted to convey that these tech overlords effectively have so much more power than even politicians to basically decide what we see.
我想,他某种程度上把他们比作历史上的伟大艺术家。
And he sort of, I guess, comparing them to the great artists also of time.
显然,他把自己与沃霍尔和毕加索相提并论,这非常夸张。
Obviously, it's very bombastic that people puts himself in the lineage of Warhol and Picasso.
虽然对Web3爱好者来说确实如此。
Although to a web three aficionado who effectively Yeah.
他基本上是在说明,正如艺术家决定或历史上一直决定我们在视觉上消费什么,掌控算法的科技巨头做的正是同样的事。
And basically making the point that just as artists are determining or have historically determined what we consume in a visual nature, that's entirely actually what tech overlords who control algorithms do.
所以这种宏大的政治评论,人们并不清楚它究竟是好是坏
So there is this sort of overarching political commentary that people does not, you know, land as to whether this is a good or bad thing sort of
不可知论者说道。
said Agnostic.
是的。
Yeah.
未来令人恐惧,但它才刚刚开始。
The future is scary, but it's only just beginning.
这就是这件极其引人注目的作品传达的核心信息。
It's kind of the takeaway from this extremely attention grabbing work.
更精致且我认为在某种程度上确实更有趣的作品来自一位名叫Jack Butcher的艺术家。
A more sophisticated and I thought, yeah, in a way, certainly more interesting work is by an artist called Jack Butcher.
他创作了一件名为《自助结账》的作品,这是一系列配有卡机的自助终端,可以打印纸质收据。
He's created a work called self checkout And it is a series of, kiosks with card machines that create paper receipts.
你可以支付任意金额,它会打印出一张NFT凭证,这部分内容我稍后再详细说明。
And you can pay any amount that you want and it prints out an NFT, and I'll get to the NFT section of this later.
但它基本上与墙上的一个计数器相连,这个计数器有点像那种翻牌式的显示板。
But it's basically tied to a counter that's on the wall that basically has sort of one of these flipboard things.
当你通过购买这些NFT中的任意一个向系统投入资金时,它会将金额添加到一个在翻牌计数器上显示的系统里。
When you put money into this system by buying one of these NFTs, it adds money into a system that is displayed on a flipboard counter.
初始金额显示为负74,211美元。
And it starts at minus $74,211.
这正是Jack Butcher在迈阿密海滩布置展位所花费的精确金额。
And that is the exact amount that it took for Jack Butcher to get to our bars on Miami Beach.
包括展位成本、运输费、保险费、酒店费用等所有开销。
That's the stand cost, the shipping, the insurance, the hotel, everything.
当然,这不是第一件直接指向艺术市场现状及作品生产成本的作品。
And it's certainly not the first work to directly point to the scenes of the art market and, you know, the production costs of doing work.
但它确实揭示了一个事实:这些Web3原生或以数字技术为核心的艺术家们,他们实际上是这个体系的局外人。
But it really points to the fact that these artists who are web three natives or digitally focused, they're they're they're outsiders to the system.
你知道,他们并不受大型画廊的约束。
You know, they're not really bound by big galleries.
因此他们更可能会对一些成本感到震惊。
And so they are more likely to also gulp at some of the, you know The cost.
确实如此。
Exactly.
这些成本在业内人看来早已习以为常,甚至不会眨一下眼。
The cost of things that people in the industry have certainly internalized and don't really bat an eyelid to anymore.
没错。
Yeah.
所以我认为这是吸引数字艺术家最有趣的观点之一。
And so I think that is one of the more interesting ideas of getting digital artists.
我要提到我以前的同事刘易斯·斯特雷布曾指出这一点。
I will say that a former colleague of mine, Lewis Streb, pointed this out.
他经常撰写关于web3和数字艺术的文章,提到web3社区中有些人对于这个本应(在他们看来)是自主前卫艺术运动的领域被
He writes a lot on web three and digital art that there are some figures within the web three community who have taken ire to the notion of what used to be and should be according to them an autonomous and avant garde art movement sort of really being
收编的现象感到愤怒。
Co opted.
被收编了。
Co opted.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
被巴塞尔艺术展所主导,他们现在某种程度上在筛选哪些作品是合格的,哪些不是,而这原本应该是反体制的。
By Art Basel who are now sort of curating which works are acceptable and which aren't when this is always meant to be against the system.
对。
Right.
然而
And yet
更具包容性和扩展性。
More inclusive and expansive.
确实如此。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
它本意是要打破守门人的垄断,但现在
It was sort of meant to be disrupting the gatekeepers and now
守门人反而接纳了它。
the gatekeepers are embracing it.
这非常有趣。
That's very interesting.
嗯,我也很喜欢这件作品,因为它以一种有趣的方式将艺术市场的某部分游戏化了——这部分内容通常不太被推到前台。
Well, I also really like this work just because I think in an interesting way, it's sort of gamifying a part of the art market in that it has sort of often not been sort of pushed to the forefront that much.
比如,你知道的,我们艺术行业对公平成本非常敏感。我认为最近许多中型画廊倒闭的叙事中,一个重要原因就是这些画廊花费巨资参加艺术展却赚不到钱,最终不得不关门。
Like, you know, we in the art industry are very mindful of fair costs and, you know, I think a lot of the narrative around the recent closures of a lot of sort of mid sized galleries is one of the things is, like, these galleries spend fortunes going to art fairs and then don't make any money and have to close.
所以很有趣的是,正如你所说,看到一位外来数字艺术家进入这个体系并质疑:等等,这可是笔巨款啊。
So it's interesting seeing, to your point, a kind of like outsider digital artist coming into the system and saying, wait a minute, like, this is such a huge sum.
我要把这变成我展位的焦点。
I'm gonna turn this into the focus of my booth.
这让我以一种奇怪的方式想起了几年前那个恶作剧般的ATM机,它同样用了类似的手法,但语气截然不同,意在引起人们对艺术市场中那些不言而喻的金钱与财富的关注,而这些话题通常不会被如此直白地讨论。
It actually kinda reminded me in a weird way of the the mischief ATM from a couple years ago, which in a similar sleight of hand, but with a very different tone was kind of like calling attention to the unspoken sums of money and wealth that are in the art market, but that don't get sort of talked about quite as bluntly that often.
我认为这件作品非常有趣且构思巧妙。
I I think it's a really interesting piece and very clever.
我想快速回到你刚才关于人们的评论,我认为你对他的作品评价很准确——它像是在调侃政治,但并未明确表态。
I wanted to quickly get back to what you were saying about people, and I think you're quite right in your assessment of his work that it's sort of like, is poking fun at politics, but not necessarily taking a stand.
你看,他引用了这些极具争议的人物,比如埃隆·马斯克、杰夫·贝索斯和马克·扎克伯格,既略带揶揄,又某种程度上将他们奉为这个时代的沃霍尔和毕加索。
You know, he's sort of invoking all these very divisive figures like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, and sort of like lightly ribbing them, but also kind of like holding them up as, you know, the Warhols and Picassos of this era.
感觉作品既紧扣时事又涉及政治,但也没有表现出强烈的立场倾向。
And it feels like it's both topical and political, but also kind of not taking a strong stance either way.
不过有趣的是,有几家画廊展出的作品确实立场鲜明。
But I think it's interesting that there are a couple of galleries showing work that is really taking a position.
比如纽约的克里斯汀·蒂尔尼画廊,他们整个展位都围绕明年美国二百五十周年庆的主题——特朗普总统为纪念《独立宣言》签署二百五十周年(明年7月4日)策划了各种盛大庆祝活动。
Know, I think of the the New York based gallery, Kristen Tierney, has a booth that's entirely devoted to the sort of theme of America's two hundred fiftieth anniversary, which is next year, which president Trump has created all this hoopla around all the celebrations he wants to have to mark the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, which will be next July 4.
但他们的展位陈列的作品却对美国遗产持批判态度,或至少是更暧昧的立场——这个国家建立在种族灭绝之上,通过奴隶制发展起来。这些作品对这段历史提出质疑,而明年的庆祝活动很可能会不加批判地颂扬这段历史。
But their booth is, you know, organized around these works that are quite critical, or if not critical, at least a little more sort of ambivalent about America's heritage as this country, you know, founded on genocide and built up through a system of slavery and, you know, problematizing that history that I think a lot of next year's celebrations will celebrate fairly uncritically.
我觉得看到一个画廊如此鲜明地表明立场确实很有意思。
I think it was interesting to see a gallery really that's sort of like making a stand like that.
这次展览中有没有哪些作品让你觉得特别有力,对时事采取了更为直言不讳的态度?
Were there any works at the fair that you found particularly powerful that kind of do have a more outspoken tone about current events?
在我继续之前
Before I get
关于这点,我想说总体上并没有太多特别煽动性的作品。
into that, would say overall there weren't so many particularly sougoneering works.
不知是否因为这类艺术属于另一个时代——现在再对特朗普如此直言不讳,感觉非常2016年风格。
Whether that's just because that kind of is art of another era, it feels very 2016, shall we say, to be so outspoken against Trump.
某种程度上说,人们已经消化了这种恐怖。
Just to some extent, people have internalized the horror.
是的。
Yes.
嗯,他现在也算是本地居民了。
Well, he is also, you know, a local resident at this point.
确实如此。
This is also true.
是啊。
Yeah.
另外,正如我们去年报道过的,众所周知,迈阿密戴德县在持续近四十年后去年转向了共和党。
Also, I mean, as we reported last year and obviously is very well known, Miami Dade swung red after I think almost forty years last year.
因此在这里展示政治立场鲜明的作品,风险可能略有不同。
So the stakes are maybe a little bit different showing politically strident work here.
但有一件作品引起了我的注意,是Commonwealth and Council展位的。
But one work that caught my eye is a Commonwealth and Council.
这是安德烈·弗雷泽的作品,展示了许多用红色书写的大幅白色海报,每张海报上都有大量文字——我估计至少有200个词——这些都是特朗普政府根据DEI相关法律禁止使用的词汇。
It's by Andrea Fraser and it sees large white posters with lots of words written on them in red and each word and they're about, I would estimate at least 200, are words that have been banned by the Trump administration under sort of DEI laws.
其中包括多样性、女权主义这类词,我记得甚至还有性这个词。
So those include things like diversity, like feminism, like, I think even sex at some point.
没错。
Right.
所以,这里有
So it's There are
所有那些被从联邦网站以及联邦机构发布的任何信息中删除的内容吗?
all the things that have been scrubbed from, like, federal websites and, like, any kind of missives put out by federal agencies?
正是如此。
Exactly.
这确实指向了倒退的政治立场。
So really point to the regressive politics.
根据Commonwealth and Council的一位合伙人所说,Andrea Fraser非常坚持这件作品要在佛罗里达展出。
And Andrea Fraser was very adamant according to a partner at Commonwealth and Council that the work was shown in Florida.
所以他们提出了所有这些艺术家们希望作品展出并认为最具批判性场所的姿态。
So they asked all these gestures that artists, you know, really want the work to be shown and where they think is the most critical place.
你提到即将到来的二百五十周年庆典很有意思,因为在某种程度上,我们确实质疑艺术家是否是表达政治异议的最佳载体。
And it's interesting you bring up the two hundred and fiftieth celebrations that are coming up because I think to some extent we do question whether artists are the best vehicle of expressing political dissent.
但与此同时,正如你提到的,如果在创意阶层中没有一种真正批判性的传播,最终结果就是遗忘历史,或者以某种方式重写历史,从而为这个国家创造不同的叙事。
But at the same time, as you mentioned, if there isn't a sort of real critical dissemination among, I think the creative class, what you end up doing is forgetting history or sort of rewriting history in a way that allows you to sort of create a different narrative about this country.
是的。
Yes.
绝对如此。
Absolutely.
嗯,我想接着你关于安德莉亚·弗雷泽作品的讨论说几句,这个项目让我特别喜欢的一点是,它是一张任何人都可以拿走的宣传海报。
Well, I think just to piggyback on what you were saying about the Andrea Fraser piece, I think part of what I really like about that project is that it's also it's a poster that anyone can take.
所以在某种程度上,这就像是有人试图压制的那些话语。
So in a way, it's like these words that someone is trying to suppress.
而她实际上是在免费分发这些话语,这本身就是一种挺不错的颠覆性姿态。
She's, like, handing them out for free, which is kind of a nice sort of subversive gesture.
而且,即使你只是个卑微的记者,能带着些东西离开展会也很不错。
And also, it's just nice to leave a fair with something, even if you're a lowly journalist.
所以我真的很欣赏这件作品。
So I I really appreciate that piece.
是啊。
Yeah.
确实如此。
Exactly.
这是我第一次接触安德莉亚·弗雷泽的作品。
It's my first Andrea Fraser.
本,和你聊天很愉快。
Nice chatting to you, Ben.
也很高兴和你交谈。
Great to chat with you too.
谢谢。
Thanks.
巴塞尔艺术展迈阿密海滩站将于十二月对公众开放。
Art Basel Miami Beach is open to the public between the December.
接下来,卢浮宫的深层危机与大都会博物馆的赫莲娜·谢尔夫贝克特展。
Coming up, the Louvre's deepening crisis and Helena Scherfbeck at the Met.
这些内容将在本周新闻简报后播出。
That's after this week's news bulletin.
国家美术馆宣布计划筹集总计7.5亿英镑用于其所谓的'多米尼项目',旨在将馆藏扩展至20世纪及21世纪,并新建一个侧翼来陈列这些作品。
The National Gallery has announced plans to raise a total of £750,000,000 for what it calls project Domane, the expansion of its collection into the twentieth and twenty first centuries, and the development of a new wing to house these works.
其中约半数资金已获认捐。
Around half that figure has already been pledged.
在这7.5亿英镑中,约4亿英镑将专门用于新馆扩建,其中大部分资金已经到位。
Of the £750,000,000, around 400,000,000 will be earmarked for the new extension, most of which has already been raised.
剩余约3.75亿英镑将用于购买1900年后的藏品、设立捐赠基金,部分资金将用于支付新馆扩建后的额外运营开支。
This leaves around 375,000,000 to go, which is expected to be used to buy post 1900 acquisitions and to create an endowment fund, which will be partly used to cover the additional expenses of running the new extension.
筹款计划公布的同时,还发布了新馆扩建项目的建筑事务所候选名单。
The fundraising plans were released alongside a shortlist of architectural firms to design the new extension.
入围事务所包括:法希德·穆萨维建筑事务所、皮尔西公司、福斯特建筑事务所、隈研吾建筑都市设计事务所与BDP联合体、伦佐·皮亚诺建筑工作室与亚当斯联合事务所、塞尔多夫建筑师事务所与珀塞尔公司、以及塞勒姆建筑工作室。
Farshid Musavi Architecture and Piercy and Company, Foster and Partners, Kengo Kuma and Associates and BDP, Renzo Piano Building Workshop and Adams and Associates, Seldorf Architects and Purcell, and Studio Salem Architects.
阿布扎比以开放两座新博物馆为今年系列重大公告画上句点——位于萨迪亚特岛的扎耶德国家博物馆(ZNM)和自然历史博物馆。
Abu Dhabi has finished a year of major announcements by opening two further museums, the Zayed National Museum or ZNM and the Natural History Museum, both on Sadiyat Island.
这些最新文化设施紧随阿布扎比弗里兹艺博会明年将在萨迪亚特岛开幕的消息,届时苏富比也将在该酋长国举行首场拍卖会——阿布扎比主权财富基金ADQ现已持有苏富比少数股权。
These latest additions follow the news that Freeze Abu Dhabi will launch next year also on Sadiyat and will coincide with the first auctions in the Emirate by Sotheby's in which Abu Dhabi's sovereign wealth fund, ADQ, now has a minority stake.
占地56,000平方米的ZNM博物馆于周二——该国第54个国庆日——正式开放,讲述了阿联酋的故事,包括阿拉伯半岛古代文明及该国近代建国历史。
The 56,000 square meter Z and M opened on Tuesday, the country's fifty fourth national day, and tells the story of The UAE, both of the ancient civilizations on the Arabian Peninsula and the more recent history of the country's founding.
该博物馆是2007年为萨迪亚特文化区最初规划的五座文化机构之一。
The museum was one of the original five institutions proposed for the Sadiq Cultural District in 2007.
五座中已有三座现已开放或即将开放,分别是ZNM博物馆、阿布扎比卢浮宫和计划于2026年开放的阿布扎比古根海姆博物馆。
Three of the five have now opened or are soon to open, the Z and M, the Louvre Abu Dhabi, and the Guggenheim Abu Dhabi, which is scheduled to open in 2026.
原计划还包括由安藤忠雄设计的海事博物馆和已故扎哈·哈迪德设计的表演艺术中心,但两者均在2016至2017年间被悄然无限期搁置。
A maritime museum to be designed by Tado Ando and a performing arts complex designed by the late Zaha Hadid were also initially planned, but both were quietly put on indefinite hold around 2016 and 2017.
一颗被誉为装饰艺术界《蒙娜丽莎》的罕见水晶钻石法贝热彩蛋于周二在伦敦佳士得拍卖行以2,290万英镑成交,创下法贝热彩蛋拍卖最高纪录。
A rare crystal and diamond Faberge egg considered the Mona Lisa of the decorative arts smashed records on Tuesday, selling for £22,900,000 at Christie's in London to become the most expensive Faberge egg ever sold at auction.
这枚因精美霜雪花纹设计被称为'冬之蛋'的彩蛋,是1885年至1917年俄国革命前夕俄罗斯皇室委托制作的约50枚彩蛋之一。
Known as the winter egg for its delicate frost and snowflake designs, it was among around 50 commissioned by Russia's imperial family between 1885 and the eve the Russian revolution in 1917.
据信革命后有7枚彩蛋遗失,现仅存7枚仍在私人手中。
Seven are believed lost since the revolution, and only seven remain in private hands.
此前法贝热彩蛋的拍卖纪录是2007年创下的890万英镑。
The previous record for a Faberge egg, £8,900,000, was set in 2007.
这款冬之蛋由阿尔玛·特蕾西亚·皮尔创作,她是法贝热圣彼得堡工作室为数不多的女性成员之一,并由她的叔叔、法贝热首席珠宝匠阿尔伯特·霍姆斯特伦制作完成。
The winter egg was created by Alma Terezia Peel, one of the few women in Faberge's Saint Petersburg workshop and fabricated by her uncle, Faberge's chief jeweler Albert Holmstrom.
据说皮尔是在工作室望向窗外时,看到玻璃上凝结的冰晶而萌生了这个设计灵感。
Peel is said to have come up with the design while gazing out of the window from her workshop where she saw ice crystals forming on the glass.
您可以在《艺术报》网站或应用程序上阅读这些故事及更多内容。
You can read these stories and much more on the art newspapers website or app.
广告之后我们马上回来。
We'll be back after this.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
本周卢浮宫博物馆员工投票通过了滚动罢工行动,以抗议博物馆管理层,特别是针对馆长劳伦斯·笛卡尔的管理方式。
Now staff at the Musee du Lou voted this week in favor of rolling strike action to protest against the management of the museum and with particular reference to the director, Laurence Descartes.
此次投票正值博物馆处于极度紧张的时刻。
The vote comes at a moment of extreme tension at the museum.
十月发生的珠宝盗窃案只是这一系列危机事件中最引人注目的一起,包括十一月因调查人员发现其庞大建筑部分结构存在安全隐患而关闭的坎帕纳展厅——该展厅专门用于陈列希腊古董。
The robbery of jewels in October is but the highest profile of a series of events that suggest an organization in crisis, including in November, the closure of the Campana Gallery, a suite of rooms dedicated to Greek antiquities after investigators discovered structural weaknesses in parts of its vast building.
上周还宣布,卢浮宫将从2026年1月14日起将非欧洲游客的门票价格提高45%。
It was also announced last week that the Louvre will raise ticket prices for non European visitors by 45% from 01/14/2026.
我们在巴黎的记者文森特·诺斯一直密切关注事件进展,我与他进行了交谈以了解更多情况。
Our reporter in Paris, Vincent Noss, has been following events closely, and I spoke to him to find out more.
文森特,我其实想先回到卢浮宫抢劫案之前,因为我认为这对理解整个事件很重要。
Vincent, I actually wanted to go back to before the robbery at the Louvre because I think that's important to this story.
比如在六月份,我记得你曾报道过卢浮宫员工罢工导致博物馆被迫闭馆。
For instance, in June, I know that you reported that the Louvre had a staff walkout which actually caused the museum to shut.
所以卢浮宫的问题其实一直存在。
So there's the problems at the Louvre have been ongoing.
对吧?
Right?
这是一种长期存在的顽疾。
This is a long term malaise.
是的。
Yes.
事实上,举例来说,有一份由国家审计机构——审计法院撰写的报告
And actually, for instance, you have a report which has been written by the state auditing body called, the court of accounting
是的。
Yes.
指出他们多年来忽视了所有的安全维护工作,这份报告是在抢劫案发生前写的。
Saying that they have neglected all the safety maintenance for years and that was written before the heist.
没错。
Yes.
这份报告是去年九月份撰写的。
It it was written last September.
2024年罢工次数增加了650%,因为员工们抗议工作条件,同时也抗议参观条件、建筑维护以及与之相关的一切问题。
You've had 650% more strikes in 2024 because staff was protesting against the work conditions, but also the visiting conditions, the maintenance of the building and, you know, all which goes with it.
是啊。
Yeah.
我的意思是,读到工会等组织的一些评论确实令人震惊,他们说这是卢浮宫历史上首次出现博物馆领导层与工作人员之间的脱节。
I mean, it's really striking to me reading some of the comments from the unions and things like that, that there is now perceived to be for the first time in the Louvre's history, they say, a disjunct between the people who lead the museum and the people who work at the museum.
你知道吗,他们谈论这件事的方式,是说领导层对员工充满轻蔑。
You know, the way that they talk about it, they talk about the leadership treating the staff with contempt.
他们使用的言辞非常强烈,不是吗?
It's really strong language that they use, isn't it?
是的。
Yes.
嗯,你知道,法国博物馆面临的一个问题是它们非常自治甚至独立。
Well, you know, one of the problems French museums have is that they are very autonomous and even independent.
而且馆长们权力很大。
And you have directors who are very powerful.
不像英国那样有强大独立的董事会。
You don't have boards as strong and independent as you have in The UK for instance.
政府的影响力一直在下降,资金和权力越来越少。
The state has been declining and has less less and less money and power.
所以现在博物馆的管理很大程度上依赖于一个人,就是馆长。
So a lot of the museum's management now relies on one person, the director of the museum.
对。
Right.
而且劳伦斯·德卡德非常独断专行。
And Laurence Decard is very directive.
你是说她有很强的权威欲望吗?
You mean she has a very strong authoritative urge?
换句话说,她比其他馆长更倾向于掌控一切。
In other words, she she likes to control things more than perhaps other directors have.
是不是
Is that
这个意思?是的。
what Yes.
程度更深。
Much more.
她非常专制,而且喜欢独断专行。
She's very authoritarian, and she she works alone.
她不擅长与周围的人共情。
She's not good at empathy with people and people around her.
你知道,她以在画廊里不向任何人打招呼、不与任何人交谈而闻名。
You know, she's known for going through the galleries without saying hello to anyone, you know, without speaking to anyone.
她身边有一个非常小的圈子,她就是这样工作的。
She has a very small clique around her, and she she works like this.
对。
Right.
她一到任,就立即想要开放博物馆的新入口。
And when she arrived, she immediately wanted to open a new entrance of the museum.
所以这是最近我们才收到公告的项目,但她已经在博物馆任职多年,这是她从任职之初就想推进的项目,是吗?
So this is the project about which we've had announcements more recently, but she's been in place at the museum for some years and that was her the sort of project that she wanted to bring in right from that start of that process, was it?
是的。
Yeah.
2021年她到任时,就决定要这个新入口。
When she arrived in 2021, she decided that she wanted this new entrance.
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嗯。
Mhmm.
当时,没人真正在意这件事,因为她要求为此投入5亿欧元。
At the time, no one really paid attention because she was asking for half €1,000,000,000 for that.
政府没有这笔资金。
The state doesn't have that money.
所以,你知道,这事就被搁置了一段时间。
And so, you know, it was just discarded for a while.
显然自从
Obviously since
盗窃案发生后,维护翻修等工作又重新提上日程,据我所知,你提到的那个项目成本现已攀升至11亿欧元,因为现在包含了安全升级、翻新工程以及新入口的建设。
the robbery the maintenance renovation and so on has come back on to the agenda as it were and I now understand that the project that you were talking about the cost has now gone up to €1,100,000,000 because it now includes security updates, renovations and so on, as well as the new entrance.
请跟我们讲讲这个项目,以及法国政界对此的反应如何。
So tell us about that and how that's being received politically in France.
这被认为是一个可行的方案吗?
Is that seen as something that's viable?
嗯,再次说明,我可以依据国家审计机构的说法,新入口项目的成本估算已上调超过40%。
Well, again, I can rely on what the state auditing body has said is that the project of the new entrance, which would cost figures have been revised by more than 40%.
是的。
Yes.
因此,它将耗资超过6.5亿欧元。
So it would cost more than €650,000,000.
这在财务上是不可行的。
It's financially not viable.
对。
Right.
没错。
Yeah.
要知道,他们至少需要一半资金来自赞助。
You know, they need at least half of this in sponsorship.
而目前,这方面还毫无进展。
And for now, there's nothing.
国家表示可以在十年内投入约1亿欧元。
And the state said that it could put about a 100,000,000 for a decade.
但每年的预算都在调整。
But each year, the budget has been revised.
加上预算削减,情况非常不确定。
And with budget cuts, it is very uncertain.
是的。
Yeah.
因此国家审计机构表示,这不可行。
So the state auditing body said, this is not viable.
所有重点应放在紧急安全基础设施上。
All the focus should be given to emergency security infrastructure.
对。
Right.
我的意思是,有趣的是法院的这一表态恰好发生在卢浮宫的坎帕纳画廊(希腊画廊)关闭且持续关闭的时刻。
I mean, it's interesting that that message from the court decant comes exactly at this moment that the Campana galleries, the Greek galleries at the Louvre are closed and they remain closed.
是这样吗?
Is that right?
是的。
Yes.
而且每周都有坏消息传来。
And but every week, you have a bad news.
是啊。
Yes.
看起来确实如此。
It does seem that way.
上周埃及图书馆遭遇了洪水。
There has been a flood in the Egyptian library last week.
坎帕纳画廊因为建筑结构存在安全隐患已经关闭了。
The Galleria Campana has been closed because, you know, there was a danger in the structure of the rooms.
梵克雅宝在2018年出具过评估报告,指出阿波罗画廊的窗户和阳台非常脆弱,而且没有监控摄像头覆盖。
There was a diagnosis made by Van Cleef and Arpels in 2018 saying that the windows and the balcony of the Apollo Gallery were very vulnerable and were not covered by security camera.
而你知道现在必须吸取这个教训。
And you know this has to be learned now.
当然,卢浮宫似乎正陷入财务危机,他们采取的补救措施之一就是提高了非欧洲游客的门票价格。请告诉我们这一情况,以及为什么工会对此感到不满——游客可能会有些不满,但工会也同样不满,对吧?
Of course one of the remedies to the financial crisis that seems to be enveloping the Louvre is that they've raised the prices for non European visitors right, so tell us about that and also why it is that the unions are upset about that because it's one thing that, you know, the tourists who are coming might be a bit upset about it, but the unions are upset about it too, aren't they?
哦,是的。
Oh, yes.
没错。
Yes.
因为他们表示这违背了卢浮宫的普世使命,这一使命是其建立之初、法国大革命时期开放时的核心理念。
Because they said that it is a challenge to the universal mission of the Louvre, which was, you know, at the basis of its foundation, of its opening during the French Revolution.
如果你看看数据就会发现,卢浮宫计划明年为新规划、新入口项目及前期研究投入约2400万欧元。
And if you have a look at the figures, you can see that now the Louvre intends to spend about €24,000,000 next year for the new plans, for the new entrants, the studies and the preliminary works.
但他们现在也计划投入1500万欧元用于各类安全基础设施建设。
But they also plan now to spend 15,000,000 on safety infrastructures of all kinds.
这几乎相当于他们为新入口梦想计划投入资金的一半。
So almost a half of what they intend to spend for the dream of the new entrance.
因此,非欧洲游客(如英国、美国、当然还有中国等)的门票价格将涨至32欧元,而法国及欧洲公民则仍为22欧元。
So the price of the ticket would be now €32 for non European, like UK, US, of course, Chinese, and everything against €22 for French and European citizens.
但这实施起来会非常困难,因为工作人员无法检查每位游客的护照。
But it will be very difficult to implement because the staff cannot check the passport of each visitor.
这根本不可能。
It's impossible.
法院建议他们应采取不同做法,比如宣布门票统一为32欧元,而能出示法国或欧洲护照的游客只需支付22欧元。
The court decant suggested that they should have done differently, like stating that the ticket would be €32 for everyone, and those who can show a French or European passport would only pay 22.
对。
Right.
好的。
Okay.
换句话说,这样工作人员的工作量会减少。
So that would require the staff to do less in other words.
也就是说,对工作人员的要求会更少。
So that would make fewer demands on the staff.
确实如此。
Exactly.
那么这就是工会想要组织罢工的主要原因吗?
So is that the primary reason why the unions want to stage a walkout?
这就是罢工主要针对这项新费用的原因,还是涉及一系列更广泛的条件问题?
Is that why the strikes will happen predominantly this new fee, or is it about a much broader series of conditions?
他们在声明中解释称,从根本上说,他们不再信任劳伦斯·笛卡尔了。
They did explain that in a statement saying that fundamentally, they don't trust Laurence Descartes anymore.
所以他们现在甚至拒绝与她对话。
So now they even refusing to talk to her.
明白了。
Right.
他们直接去找国家部长,并表示不愿再与她商讨。
They're going directly to the country minister, and they said they don't want to discuss with her anymore.
所以现在处于危机状态。
So there is a situation of crisis.
没错。
Right.
你知道,卢浮宫现在几乎要爆炸了。
You know, the Louvre is almost exploding now.
是的。
Yes.
当然,不仅仅是因为那起盗窃案,还因为自她上任以来积累的所有结构性问题。
And not only because of the the heist, of course, but because all the structural problems which amounted since arrival there.
卢浮宫方面表示法院的裁决立场是不公正的。
The Louvre itself has said that the court decants position is unbalanced.
对吧?
Right?
所以卢浮宫不接受法院的裁决立场,但卢浮宫是否也有理由说,实际上问题的根源更多在于国家与文化部的预算削减,而非卢浮宫自身的问题?
So so the Louvre doesn't accept the court decants position, but also wouldn't it be fair for the Louvre to say that actually the source of the problems is much more the state and the culture ministry because of its budget cuts than it is the Louvre's problem.
换句话说,过去几年里卢浮宫曾获得国家更为慷慨的资金支持。
In other words, the Louvre had been much more generously funded by the state in years past.
现在它从国家获得的预算大幅减少,因此这些问题的根源未必在于卢浮宫的管理层,而实际上在于文化部。
It's now got a much smaller budget from the state, and therefore the source of these problems is not necessarily the management of the Louvre, but actually the ministry of culture.
嗯,再次强调,法庭记录对此有回应。
Well, again, the call account answers to this.
他们表示卢浮宫资金充足,这些资金来自卢浮宫阿布扎比合约。
They say the Louvre has plenty of money, and that comes from the Louvre Abu Dhabi contract.
嗯。
Mhmm.
自2020年以来,他们已从阿布扎比获得超过3亿欧元。
They have received since 2020 more than €300,000,000 from Abu Dhabi.
这些资金被用于安全基础设施和防火设施建设。
This they have spent on safety infrastructures, antifire infrastructures.
五年间他们仅花费了400万欧元,你知道,这仅占全球预算的约0.3%。
They have spent only 4,000,000 in five years, and that, you know, amounts to about 0.3% of the global budget.
法庭记录表明卢浮宫不存在财务问题。
And the court decant says there is no financial problem for the Louvre.
它资金充足。
It has plenty of money.
只是决定优先考虑
It just decided to prioritize
对。
Right.
其他资产而非藏品的基本保护。
Other assets than the basic protection of the collections.
你是否有信心认为审计法院是一个真正独立的机构,没有任何政治议程?
And do you have confidence that the Cour des Contes are genuinely independent organization as in they don't have any political agenda?
是的。
Yeah.
它是一个非常独立且严肃的机构。
It's a very independent and very serious body.
没错。
Right.
不。
No.
不。
No.
毫无疑问。
No question of that.
好的。
Okay.
那么你认为劳伦斯·笛卡尔——我们知道她的职位在某种程度上受到威胁,但正因为抢劫案的发生,而且她显然已在法国参议院露面等等。
So do you perceive that Laurence Descartes I mean, we know her job is to a certain extent threatened, but because of the the very fact that the robbery happened and she's obviously appeared in the French senate and so on.
你认为她是否获得了组织的信任可以继续留任,还是你觉得她的职位岌岌可危?
Do you think that she has the confidence of the organization to keep going or do you think her job is under threat?
嗯,显然,客观来说她的职位确实面临威胁,但她得到了马克龙总统的庇护。
Well, obviously, objectively, her job is under threat, but she has gained protection of president Macron.
而且你也知道,法国是一个高度中央集权的国家。
And we have a very centralized state in France, as you know.
现在她只能依靠这种保护了。
Now she relies only on this protection.
问题是,这种保护能持续多久呢?
Question is, you know, how long that can stand?
可能到了某个时刻,马克龙总统和文化部长拉希达·达蒂会认为这可能会损害他们自己的形象。
There might be a point when president Macron and the culture minister, Rashida Garti, might consider that it could jeopardize their own image.
到那时,她的处境可能会变得更加棘手。
And then, you know, things could be much trickier for her.
文森特,非常感谢你参与我们的讨论。
Well, Vincent, thank you so much for joining us.
好的。
Okay.
谢谢。
Thank you.
你可以在网站或应用上阅读关于卢浮宫的这篇报道及其他内容,并在10月24日的播客节目中收听我们对十月抢劫案的讨论。
You can read this story and much more on the Louvre on the website or app and listen to our discussion about the October heist in the episode of this podcast from the October 24.
现在是本周艺术鉴赏时间。
And now it's time for the work of the week.
纽约大都会艺术博物馆本周将举办展览《静观:海伦娜·谢夫贝克的绘画》,这是芬兰画家作品首次在美国主要博物馆进行深度展出。
The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York this week opens the exhibition Seeing Silence, the paintings of Helena Schaefpek, the first exhibition to show the Finnish painter's work in-depth in a major US museum.
展览展出50余件作品,包括1914至1916年间创作于芬兰海文卡镇的挂毯画作。
It features more than 50 works, including the tapestry, a painting made in the Finnish town of Hivingkar between 1914 and 1916.
本次展览由迪特尔·阿莫里策展,我采访了她关于这些作品的情况。
The curator of the exhibition is Dieter Amory, and I spoke to her about the work.
迪特尔,本周艺术鉴赏的第一个问题总是关于艺术家的创作地点。
Dieter, the first question of the work of the week is always about where the artist was.
就海伦·谢夫贝克而言,我认为她创作这幅画时的所在地极为重要,因为她的作品风格在此地发生了重大飞跃。
And in the case of Helen Scherffbeck, it seems to me extremely important where she was when she made this painting because there's a massive leap that happens, which is directly related to this place in her work.
请为我们详细讲述她创作这幅非凡画作时的环境背景。
So tell us more about the circumstances in which she made this extraordinary painting.
好的。
Sure.
1902年,她搬到了距离赫尔辛基两个半小时车程的一个铁路小镇,顺便说一句,那里没有模特。
In nineteen o two, she moved to a small railroad town two and a half hours from Helsinki, a town with no models, I might add.
她以当地店主和邻居为模特,创作室内场景画作。
She used local shopkeepers and neighbors as models for her interiors.
这幅画创作于1914至1916年间。
This painting dates to nineteen fourteen, nineteen sixteen.
她搬去那里是为了照顾寡居的母亲,并依靠母亲微薄的养老金生活。
She moved there to look after her widowed mother and took advantage of her widowed mother's pension, modest pension.
她们生活条件非常简陋,住在一居室里,其中一人睡厨房,海伦娜则在卧室睡觉和工作。
They lived in very modest circumstances in a one room apartment where one of them slept in the kitchen, and Helena slept and worked in the bedroom.
我提及这些是因为这确实是她最高产的时期之一,我认为这正是她职业生涯中确立个人现代主义风格的转折点。
I say this because it was really one of her most productive periods, and I think it really is the moment in her career when she's codifying her own brand of modernism.
除了看过几本带黑白插图的书籍外,她与巴黎的艺术家们没有任何接触。
She had no contact with the artists working in Paris apart from seeing a few books with black and white illustrations.
她已从1880年代在巴黎接受自然主义训练的早期阶段转型。
And she's moved from her early years of training in the eighteen eighties in Paris, training in in naturalism.
她是个神童。
She was a prodigy.
她从11岁起就在赫尔辛基的艺术学校学习绘画。
She studied drawing at the art school in Helsinki at from the age of 11.
她很早就被认可了。
She was recognized very early on.
18岁时,她已身在巴黎。
By 18, she was in Paris.
因此,她唯一接受的正规学院派训练是自然主义,师从巴斯蒂安·勒帕热等当时伟大的自然主义画家。
So her only formal academic training was in naturalism, working in the context of Bastien Lepage and and other great naturalists of the moment.
仅仅25年间,她就开始将画面元素精简至极简的主题,其中人物与周围物品的价值等同。
In just a matter of twenty five years, she began to pare down her imagery to a very, very simplified subject matter where her figures were no more valuable than the objects surrounding them.
事实上,画面中几乎没有什么物品环绕着人物。
And indeed, there were few objects surrounding them.
画中人物从不与创作者对视。
The figures never looked at their maker.
他们总是疏离的,总是陷入沉思。
They were always remote, always lost in thought.
这幅挂毯画作将我们带入了更高层次的抽象境界,画中人物扁平地站立在某种神秘的海面、地毯或挂毯前。
This painting, the tapestry, takes us to even a greater level of abstraction where her figures are flat, standing before some mysterious sea or rug or tapestry.
这种说法有一定可信度,因为她当时确实设计过一些挂毯图案。
And there's some credibility to that because she did some designs for tapestries in her day.
有人认为这幅作品可能就是其中之一。
It's thought that perhaps this this was one.
我们认为这幅画可能曾在埃纳尔·罗伊特的传记中被提及
We think that this painting may have been mentioned in Einar Reuter's biography
对。
Right.
关于夏夫贝克的传记中,我想给你们读读他1917年写的内容。
Of Schaffbeck, and I'd like to read to you what he wrote in 1917.
长久以来,海伦娜的幻想一直萦绕着一个梦境般的景观,一个逐渐具象化的巨大画面。
For a long time, Helena has in her fantasy been revolving around a dream landscape, a big, big surface which has gradually taken substantial form.
她将眼前的画面构想成墙上的一块大地毯,一座岛屿,前景中则是一对男孩和女孩。
She envisages the picture in front of her as a big rug on the wall, an island, and in the foreground, a boy and girl.
所以这似乎与这幅画非常吻合。
So this would seem to align very well with this painting.
我们无法确认他们是否怀有此意,但这幅画确实是一个梦境般的景象,她没有使用任何可识别的模型。
We can't verify that that they have this in mind, but the picture is really a a dreamscape, and she's not using any models of of recognition.
她确实在抽象化她的人物形象。
She's really abstracting her figures.
这些人物与画作的其他部分一样,具有一种超凡脱俗的特质。
They have an ethereal quality like the rest of the painting.
这确实是一幅关于氛围、色调以及她刻意将人物形象平面化的画作。
It's really a painting about atmosphere and tone and her deliberate flattening of her figures.
她的,是的。
Her Yeah.
她勾勒人物轮廓的方式也让人联想到绘图,实际上像是使用了绘图工具。
Outlining of her figures is also reminds us of a of a drawing, actually, of of using a drawing tool.
平面形式与这些精美描绘的线条之间有一种绝妙的平衡,不是吗?
There's a wonderful balance, isn't there, between flat form and these beautifully rendered descriptive lines.
是的。
Yes.
我想指出一点,我特别喜欢她画作中四处点缀的小色块。
And one thing I just wanted to point out, and the thing I just adore about her painting is the little swatches of color here and there.
是的。
Yes.
比如在男性形象上,我们看到他的背影,但在他耳朵和后脑勺周围,点缀着红、蓝和白色块。
And for instance, on the male figure, we see the back of the male figure, But around his ear and the back of his head, there were swatches of red and blue and white.
很美,不是吗?
It's gorgeous, isn't it?
这些色彩在小长凳上再次出现,就是旁边那个小长凳。
That are captured again in the little bench, the little bench at the side.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
那顶黑帽子危险地斜放在长凳边上,角度相当倾斜。
Which has a black hat precariously sitting on it at at it actually at an angle.
请谈谈这些色块般的笔触与简约风格之间的平衡关系。
Tell us about this balance between these kind of addition of these kind of swatch like marks and then this paired backness.
你提到过这种更具现代主义风格的创作。
You talked about this kind of greater modernism.
部分原因在于她对画面做减法与加法同样严苛。
That was partly because she was incredibly rigorous about reducing as well as adding.
对吧?
Right?
是的。
Yes.
可以这么说。
That's one way of putting it.
从物理层面来说,她实际上在这幅画的底部添加了一块画板。
I mean, physically speaking, she actually added a panel to the bottom of this painting.
所以她从未在画作绝对完成前绷紧画布,因为它们的尺寸、空间结构的最终确定要等到她对画面效果完全满意为止。
So she she never actually stretched her canvases until they were absolutely finished because their scale, their dimensional conclusion was not necessarily reached until she had her image entirely to satisfaction.
这充分体现了她在这幅画中精心安排人物比例的深思熟虑。
So that is a very deliberate sense of her wanting to arrange her her scale of figures in this painting with with great consideration.
正如你朗读的段落所描述的那样,这幅画蕴含着惊人的想象力
There's a tremendous sense of that imagination that was described in that passage that you read to
嗯。
us Mhmm.
在这幅画中。
In this painting.
因为如你所说,我们能意识到我们看到的是房间里的两个人物——毕竟有件家具存在,但同时她显然又在玩味着海滩情侣的视觉错觉,远处海面上还有座岛屿,不是吗?
Because as you say, we are aware that we are looking at two figures probably in a room because there's an item of furniture, but also she's clearly playing with the illusion of a couple on a beach with an island in the distance over the sea, isn't she?
所以这幅画既带着某种诗意的严肃,又透着一丝俏皮的意味。
So there's there's a sort of playfulness about it as well as a kind of poetic sort of seriousness.
没错。
Right.
从某个层面看,正如你所说,她在描绘海滩上的人物,远处还有小岛和日式风格的树木。
At one level, she's playing with figures on a beach, as you say, with this little distant island, the sort of Japanese trees in the distance.
但另一方面,它也可能是一块地毯。
But on the other, it could be a rug.
也可能是一幅挂毯。
It could be a tapestry.
是啊。
Yeah.
在她那些不以肖像画为主要目标的成熟作品中,总蕴含着一种神秘元素。
There's always an element of mystery in her mature work when she's not obviously painting portraits that that have other goals.
从筹备展览之初,我就非常渴望展出这幅画作,它现藏于斯德哥尔摩的私人收藏中。
From the very start, as I was organizing this exhibition, I wanted this painting very badly, and it's it's in a private collection in Stockholm.
我认为这幅画让我们更全面地理解了她丰富的想象力,以及贯穿其众多作品中的暧昧与神秘感。
So I felt it really gave us a a fuller understanding of her rich imagination and sense of ambiguity and mystery, which you see in so much of her work.
无论这是否如我们所想的那般刻意,还是仅仅关乎她发展自己绘画理念的过程,我真的无从知晓。
Whether that's as deliberate as we think it was or whether it's just a question of her developing her own conception of pictures, I I really don't know.
对。
Right.
请告诉我们她使用的工具和颜料,因为她在颜料选择上相当多变。
Tell us about what she's using as tools and also as paint because she's quite various in the paint she's using.
对吧?
Right?
有时她会将蛋彩画颜料和油画颜料结合使用。
So sometimes she's bringing together tempera and oil.
是这样吗?
Is that right?
是的。
Yes.
在其他画作中这绝对是油画颜料,但我无法确认这幅画是否也是如此。
This is absolutely oil in in other paintings, and I I can't actually confirm whether it's true in this picture.
她采用了一种非常独特的技法,在画布上增减颜料,常常能让你看到画布的纹理。
She used a very idiosyncratic technique of adding and subtracting pigment to her canvas where you would often see the the weave of canvas.
但这幅画实际上画得非常平滑。
But this is actually very smoothly painted.
所以在这个例子中,我认为更引人注目的是那些绘图工具的暗示,实际上是勾勒这两个非常扁平人物的线条。
So I would say that in in this example, what strikes you more is the suggestion of drawing tools, actually, of the lines that outline these two very flattened figures.
男性人物的腿部被描绘出来。
And the legs of the male figure are laid in.
而在画作下方象限的沙滩状区域,如果你观察粉色部分,会发现粉色实际上一直延伸到她的脚上。
And the beach like passage at the lower quadrants of the painting actually are if you look at the pink, the pink actually extends right over her foot.
是的。
So Yeah.
这真的像一场梦。
It's really a dream.
这里完全没有意图让你理解这些人物是在某个我们不知道的地方为她摆姿势。
There's no intention here whatsoever to give you an understanding of figures posing for her somewhere we don't know.
我无法确定是否有两个人物为她摆姿势,但我要说的是,当她在High Vinca的可辨识室内场景中安排人物时,她会让他们坐上一段时间,直到她完全理解作品的结构和构思,然后才让他们离开。
I can't say whether there were two figures posing for her, but I will say that when she posed figures in her paintings in High Vinca, in interiors that were recognizable, She would ask them to sit for a while until she had full understanding of the structure and conception of the piece, and then she told them to leave.
她总是随后依靠想象力来完成画作。
She always then deferred to imagination to finish off her pictures.
而在这幅作品中,我甚至不确定她是否真的安排了两个人物摆姿势,但也许她确实这么做了。
And this is one where I'm not even sure she posed two figures, but perhaps she did.
嗯。
Yeah.
我是说,你之前提到过这些人物从不看向我们。
I mean, you mentioned earlier on that the figures are never looking at us.
他们从不与我们这些观众互动,甚至也不与作为艺术家的她互动。
They're never engaging with us as viewers or indeed with her as as the artist.
但这其实是一种非常刻意的策略。
But this that was a very deliberate strategy.
是这样吗?
Is that right?
我认为这是一种刻意的策略。
I think it was a deliberate strategy.
她是个非常注重隐私的人。
She was a very private person.
除了埃纳尔·罗伊特,她其实不希望任何人靠得太近,这又是另一个漫长的故事了。
She didn't really want anyone to get too close apart from Einar Reuter, and that's that's another long story.
早年间她从欧洲回国后,在搬去海文卡之前,曾在芬兰国家协会的绘画学校任教。
When she taught at the drawing school at the Finnish National Society in her earlier years when she got back from Europe and before she moved to High Vinca.
她从不希望学生直视她或与她过于亲近。
She never wanted her students to look at her or get too close to her.
因此她与模特之间也保持着这种刻意营造的距离感。
So there's that sense of distance that she enforced with models as well.
画中人物很少会看向作为创作者的自己,观者常被画中人物的眼睛吸引,不过这幅画里不太明显。
Her figures rarely look at her as the maker of these paintings, and one is often drawn to her eyes in a painting, not in this so much.
但如果你看她的自画像,就能通过她的眼睛研究其成长历程、衰老过程,乃至她与观者建立联结的意愿。
But if you look at her self portraits, you can just do a study of her development, her aging, and indeed her willingness to connect with the viewer through her eyes.
你之前提到她搬到了一个偏远的地方,而她的作品正是在此期间有了重大发展。
Now you mentioned earlier on about how she's moved to a remote space and that this sort of great development happens in her work.
嗯。
Mhmm.
她那种非常谦逊和注重隐私的个人特质,与这些是相关联的。
And this idea of her being a sort of very modest and private individual, These things are connected.
对吧?
Right?
当她确实开始取得成功时,她对此怀有一定程度的忧虑。
And when she does begin to achieve success, it's greeted by her with a certain level of trepidation.
是这样吗?
Is that right?
换句话说,她显然对作品抱有抱负,但在某种程度上也担心作品进入公众视野后会产生的影响。
So so in other words, she obviously has ambitions for the work, but she's concerned about its effect once it enters the public realm to a certain degree.
不。
No.
要知道,她生前在斯德哥尔摩已经展出了大量作品,在芬兰更是如此。
You know, she actually showed a lot in Stockholm and and even more in in Finland in her lifetime.
她在世时备受推崇,但却对公众的追捧十分抗拒。
She was very well appreciated in her lifetime, but she was resistant to public adulation.
甚至在1917年有了经销商后,她对提高自己画作价格都毫无兴趣。
She wasn't even interested in in raising the price points of her paintings once she had a a dealer as of 1917.
她只需要足够的创作材料和工具就够了。
She just needed enough material to work with, enough tools.
她个人对物质几乎毫无追求。
She had very few material interests for herself.
嗯。
Yeah.
我是说,你在画册中引用的那些陈述都体现出明显的一致性。
Mean, there's a clear consistency in the utterances that you quote in the catalog.
听起来她唯一想做的事就是画画。
Basically, it sounds like all she wants to do is paint.
只要她能画画,她就心满意足了。
And if she's painting, she's fine.
没错。
That's right.
其他一切在某种程度上都是对这种空间的侵扰。
Everything else is in some way an invasion of that space.
这么说可能有点极端,简化为寥寥数语,但确实,你说得完全正确。
I mean, that's a bit extreme as reducing it to just a few words, but yes, you're absolutely right.
她只想画画。
She just wanted to paint.
有句非常非常动人的话,我很想分享给你。
There is the most lovely, lovely quote, which I'd love to share with you.
她在1936年写给路透的信中写道:是的,一种渴望自我完整的强烈需求,但这需要两者——一本能理解的书或一个能理解的人。
In a letter she wrote to Reuter in 1936, she writes, yes, a compelling need to feel myself whole, but it takes two, a book or a human being who understands.
完全不可能通过算计来创作。
It's utterly impossible to create by calculation.
凡是让画家感到自我意识的东西,统统摒弃掉。
Everything that makes a painter self conscious, away with it.
我已经开始画自画像了。
I've started the self portrait.
最近我常常沉浸在回忆中。
I've been living a great deal in my memory lately.
只是他们如此热情洋溢,以至于我甚至不敢去想,关于青春的事。
It's just that they are so passionate that I daren't even think about it, about youth.
但直到现在才恍然大悟,明白了这么多。
But it's only now that wonder understands so much.
没有人像我这样经历过如此多的欢乐,也没有人像我这样承受过如此多的悲伤,但欢乐终究更多些。
Nobody has had so much fun as I have or so much sorrow, but there's been more joy.
这段话写于1936年,而她于1946年去世,享年84岁。
That was written in 1936, and she dies at the age of 84 in 1946.
没错。
Right.
她一生中写了数千封信,光是给这位挚友艾娜·罗伊特的就有上千封,她在情感与智识上都深深爱慕着对方。
She wrote thousands of letters in her lifetime, as many as a thousand to this dear friend, Aina Reuter, someone she certainly fell in love with emotionally and intellectually.
我不能多说,因为他更年轻,而且最终结婚了。
I can't say more because he was younger, and he did ultimately marry.
但他用芬兰语为她写了传记并出版,而她接受的是瑞典语教育。
But he wrote her biography published in Finnish, and she was educated in Swedish.
虽然她通晓三种语言,但芬兰语并不在其列。
Though she was trilingual, Finnish wasn't one of her languages.
这部传记直到她去世后才以芬兰语再版。
And it was only republished in Finnish after her death.
所以她实际上从未读过自己的传记。
So she couldn't actually read her own biography.
这真令人着迷。
That is fascinating.
但传记在某种程度上是否也掺入了一些虚构的成分呢?
But is it right that the biography to a certain extent introduce some myths, if you like, into the biography?
确实如此。
It does.
从某种意义上说,作为策展人,你至今仍在努力通过这次展览呈现她真实的人物形象,而非那本传记部分塑造出的神话般存在。
In a sense, you're still wrestling with as a curator today in this show, you're wanting to present an image of her as a true person that rather than this rather mythological sort of creature that's been created partly through that biography.
说得非常好。
That's very well said.
某种程度上,我是在自我矛盾地工作——因为我希望她的艺术能凭自身魅力打动观众。
In a sense, I'm sort of working at cross purposes with myself because I want her art to impress on its own.
我希望能让公众直接领略她的艺术,而不必借助她人生不幸的衬托。
I want I want her art to reach our public without recourse to her misfortunes in life.
然而我本人又非常习惯将艺术放在艺术家生平背景中审视。
And yet, I'm very much someone who looks at art in the context of an artist's life.
比如多年前我曾策划过保罗·塞尚为其妻子奥尔唐斯所作的肖像画展。
I mean, I did an exhibition years ago of Paul Cezanne's portraits of his wife, Hortense.
那让我深入了解了他们的家庭,当然情境完全不同。
So that drew me into their family and, of course, in a different situation.
因此我在书中撰写了一篇文章,通过她的生平来追溯她作为艺术家的发展历程,因为她的人生实在太引人入胜了。
So I have written an essay in the book that tracks her development as an artist by way of her life because her life is so fascinating.
而男性作家——或者说艺术史学者们——总是过分神化她的受害者身份、她的抑郁、她的孤独等等诸如此类。
And male writers, or I should just say art historians, have so often mythologized her victimhood, her depression, her her loneliness, etcetera, etcetera.
我认为这并没有公正地对待她。
And I don't think that's doing her justice.
我认为即使观众对她过往一无所知地走进这个展览,也会发现自己置身于一个非凡的境地——这位艺术家至今未获得我们希望能给予她的应有关注。
I think you could arrive at this exhibition with no knowledge of her past whatsoever and find yourself in an extraordinary situation where an artist hasn't had the deserving attention that we hope to give her.
这种被建构的人生框架的典型例子就是:她生前被诊断出患有如今看来完全过时的病症——神经衰弱症。
An example of that kind of structure in which her her life has been framed is that in her lifetime, she was diagnosed with what we now know is a totally archaic condition, which was neurasthenia.
对吧?
Right?
所以
So
那本质上就是抑郁症。
It was essentially depression.
是的。
Yes.
她实际上多次住院治疗。
She was actually hospitalized on several occasions.
事实上,再补充一点她的生平,当埃纳尔宣布要结婚时,她精神崩溃并住院了。
And in fact, to give you a bit more of her biography, when Einar announced he was marrying, she had a nervous breakdown, and she hospitalized.
但他们仍保持联系。
But they continued to stay in touch.
他去看望过她。
He visited her.
他最初是在高文卡遇见她的。
He first met her in High Vinca.
她的经销商格斯塔·斯滕曼带他去见她。
Her dealer, Gosta Stenman, took him to meet her.
他想收藏她的一些画作,由此开始了一段持续到她生命最后时日的长久关系,她一直给他写信。
He wanted to collect some of her paintings, and that began a a lifelong relationship that extended until her last days, and she continued to write to him.
可惜她的信件尚未被翻译。
Her letters are untranslated, alas.
我是说,他当然读过她的信件,这些信件为他的传记提供了素材。
I mean, he read, of course, her letters, and and so they informed his biography.
我已经请人翻译了传记的部分内容,但希望有朝一日能看到所有信件都被译成英文。
And I've had the biography translated in passages, but I would love someday to see all the letters translated into English.
我认为这将让我们更全面地了解她的内心世界。
I think it would give us a a much fuller picture of her inner self.
所以今天我们在伦敦很幸运能看到皇家艺术学院的展览。
So today, we were lucky in London to have the Royal Academy show.
现在纽约市民和所有到访纽约的人都能观看这个展览了。
Now New Yorkers and anybody who visits New York will be able to see this show.
是的。
Yes.
在我看来,除了其他因素外,确实有大批艺术家真心喜爱海伦·谢夫·贝克的作品。
I mean, in my estimation, it seems to me that there is apart from anything else, a real groundswell of artists who love Helen Sheff Beck's work.
这是否也是你的印象,她既是艺术家中的艺术家,同时也是一位能吸引更广泛公众兴趣的人物?
Is that your impression that she is something of an artist's artist as well as somebody who there will be a broader public interested in her.
她的作品中是否确实具有某种特质,特别能引起艺术家们的共鸣?
That that somehow she has qualities in her work that artists really seem to warm to.
嗯。
Mhmm.
实际上我目前与艺术家们的接触还不多,但我毫不怀疑她会吸引艺术家们的关注。
I haven't actually had too much contact yet with artists, but I don't doubt for a minute that she will engage artists.
绝对如此。
Absolutely.
我认为艺术家们总是在现代主义中寻找其他声音,而她并没有像许多巴黎及欧洲其他城市的同代人那样,完全融入那种正统的现代主义潮流。
I think artists are always looking for other voices in modernism, and she hasn't joined that canonical march toward full blown modernism as is true of so many of her contemporaries in Paris and and other cities in in Europe.
她非常特立独行。
She is very much on her own.
而且她的作品与我所见过的挪威、瑞典或丹麦同代艺术家的任何作品都截然不同。
And her work is not similar to anything else that I've seen by contemporaries in Norway or Sweden or Denmark.
好的,Dieter,非常感谢你参加我们的播客节目。
Well, Dieter, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
哦,不客气。
Oh, you're welcome.
谢谢。
Thank you.
《静观:Helena Scherfbeck的画作》展览将于12月5日至2026年4月5日在纽约大都会艺术博物馆展出。
Seeing silence, the paintings of Helena Scherfbeck is at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York from the December 5 until the 04/05/2026.
本期节目到此结束。
And that's it for this episode.
本播客由Amy Dawson、Philippa Kelly和David Clack制作,David同时担任编辑和音效设计。
The podcast is produced by Amy Dawson, Philippa Kelly, and David Clack, and David's also the editor and sound designer.
我们的社交媒体编辑是Kelly Foster,设计师是Daniela Hathaway。
Our social editor is Kelly Foster, and our designer is Daniela Hathaway.
感谢我们的嘉宾Ben、Gabir、Maison和Dieter。
Thanks to our guests, Ben and Gabir, Maison, and Dieter.
你可以在Facebook、Instagram、Threads和Blue Sky上找到我们。
You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, and Blue Sky.
感谢您的收听。
Thank you for listening.
我们下周见。
We'll see you next week.
暂时先这样,再见。
Bye for now.
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