第四季第二集 性——那场没完没了的对话！

你思考对话。

You think of conversations.

有如此多不同的对话。

There are so many different conversations.

你可能会有快乐的

You may have happy

但也需要有致命的对话。

And there needs to be deadly conversations too.

对话，你知道的，当有人去世时，你需要进行那样的对话。

Conversations, you know, when somebody dies and you have that conversation.

性亲密也是如此。

And the same thing in sexual intimacy.

如果性行为不能让双方都感到愉悦，如果他只是说，来给我口交，而你心里想，你知道吗？

If sex is not mutually pleasing to both, if he's like, come give me a blow job, and you're like, you know what?

这对我来说毫无意义。

That does nothing for me.

是的

Yeah.

那么，这就不应该成为你性亲密的一部分。

Then then that shouldn't be a part of your sexual intimacy.

嗯

Mhmm.

如果真是这样，那你们就彼此错过了。

And if that is, then you're missing each other.

嗯

Mhmm.

如果她这么说：这是我唯一喜欢的方式，而他却说：我想试试不同的方式，嗯。

If she's like, this is the only way I like it, and he's like, I wanna try something different Mhmm.

那么你可能得说：你知道吗？

Then you may have to say, you know what?

我对此感到安心，因为这是我母亲告诉我的应该如此的方式。

I'm comfortable with this because this is the way my mother told me it should happen.

你可能需要说，让我走出自己的舒适区。

You may have to say, let me get out of my comfort zone.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

很容易就停留在原地，不去进行那些真正必要的、艰难的对话。

It's so easy to just remain and not have the conversations that would be, you know, those those hard conversations.

但正是这些艰难的对话，才能让你从一种亲密深度迈向更深的亲密。

But those hard conversations are the one that you that move you from one depth of intimacy to a deeper depth of intimacy.

嘿，姑娘。

Hey, girl.

我是Myresha Franklin，本节目的主持人兼‘妻子生活’创始人。

It's Myresha Franklin, your host and founder of wife life.

非常高兴你今天停下脚步，加入我们的对话。

I am so glad you decided to stop by and join the conversation today.

在《妻子生活》播客中，我们致力于为您提供属神的智慧和实用建议，帮助您应对日常生活。

Here at the wife life podcast, we are dedicated to connecting you to Godly wisdom and practical tips that will help you in your everyday life life.

所以仔细听，我只想在我们开始对话时鼓励你，以开放的心态、开放的心灵和倾听的耳朵来参与，以便你能有所收获。

So listen up, I just want to encourage you as we get this conversation started to come in with an open mind, an open heart and listening ears so that you can receive.

明白吗？

Alright?

好，我们开始吧。

Okay, let's go.

嘿，欢迎回来。

Hey, welcome back.

这是《妻子生活》播客第四季第二集。

It's season four, episode two of the wife life podcast.

本月的主题是性。

The theme for this month is sex.

今天，我们有幸与罗宾·麦凯利交谈。

Today we have the privilege of talking to Robin McKelvey.

罗宾与雷已经结婚三十三年了，他们依然相处得非常愉快。

Robin has been married to Ray for thirty three years and they still have so much fun together.

他们一共有十七个孩子。

They have 17 children total.

其中七个是流产的孩子，现在已在天堂，他们有幸抚养了十个孩子，年龄从13岁到32岁不等。

Seven were miscarriages who are now in heaven, and they had the pleasure of raising 10 children, ages ranging from 13 to 32.

罗宾撰写了两本书，分别是《SOS：厌倦了性生活》和《大声说出来：成为你丈夫的专属啦啦队长》。

Robin is the author of two books, SOS, Sick of Sex, and Say It Loud, Becoming Your Husband's Personal Cheerleader.

你可以在robinmckelvey.com购买这些书籍。

You can purchase these books at robinmckelvey.com.

她还经常在家庭、婚姻和女性大会上授课。

She also teaches at family, marriage, and women's conferences.

罗宾曾多次做客不同播客，讨论婚姻、母职和混合家庭等话题。

Robin has appeared on many different podcasts discussing the topics of marriage, motherhood, and blended families.

罗宾和雷还喜欢前往参加家庭生活组织的‘难忘周末’婚姻研讨会，他们已连续二十五年参与其中。

Robin and Ray also enjoy traveling to speak at Family Life's Weekend to Remember Marriage conferences, which they have participated in for the past twenty five years.

好的。

Okay.

我有一个有趣的事实要分享给所有堪萨斯城的本地人。

I have a fun fact for all my Kansas City locals.

她和丈夫雷还帮助在密苏里州堪萨斯城建立了一间教会。

She and her husband Ray also helped plant a church in Kansas City, Missouri.

当时名为新希望圣经教会，现在称为团契圣经教会。

At the time was called New Hope Bible Church and currently known as Koinonia Bible Church.

他们在那儿服事了十年。

They served there for ten years.

如今，罗宾在田纳西州纳什维尔的基督为万国教会服事，这是一间多元种族的教会，她的丈夫雷是该教会的主任牧师。

Present day, Robin serves at Christ for the Nations Church, a multi ethnic congregation in Nashville, Tennessee, where her husband Ray is the lead pastor.

罗宾喜欢与人相关的一切。

Robin likes all things people.

她喜欢与人交谈、辅导、分享、关爱、连接、外出、闲逛等等。

She loves talking to, mentoring, sharing with, loving on, connecting with, going out with, hanging out with, etc, etc.

好吧，让我们听听罗宾对性有什么看法。

All right, let's see what Robin has to say about sex.

罗宾，很高兴你来参加《妻子生活》播客。

Robin, it's so good to have you on the wife life podcast.

感谢你今天加入我们。

Thank you for joining us today.

我们这个月的主题是性。

Our theme for this month is sex.

你认为为什么基督徒谈论性很重要？

Why do you think that it's important for Christians to talk about sex?

我认为这很重要，因为基督徒一直以来都避而不谈性，而现在人们在性亲密方面却走得太远了。

Well, I think it's important because Christians haven't talked about sex at all, and now we have people going a ride when it comes to sexual intimacy.

我认为我们需要回归到上帝创造性的初衷，以及它被创造的目的，并确保我们将这些教导传递给下一代。

And I think we need to bring it back to why God created it, what he created it for, and and then to make sure that we're teaching that to younger people coming behind us.

我之所以对参加这个播客感到兴奋，是因为你是一位年轻女性。

And that's my excitement about being on this podcast because you're a younger woman.

我结婚三十三年了。

I've been married thirty three years.

我热爱婚姻生活，也热爱性亲密关系。

And I love being married and I love sexual intimacy.

是的。

Yeah.

但我知道有很多女性并不喜欢这一点。

But I know there's a lot of women that don't love it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我们需要回归到它的基本理念。

And so we need to bring it back to its basic concept.

上帝创造这个的目的是什么？

Why did God create this?

他创造性亲密关系，是为了让我们与一生中他希望我们最亲密的那个人更加亲近。

He created sexual intimacy so that we could be more intimate with one person that he wants us to be the most intimate with for our lifetime.

是的

Yeah.

所以我们需要回归它被创造的初衷。

And so we need to bring it back to what it was created for.

最初的创造就是为了让我们彼此更加亲密。

That was the original creation just to keep us intimate with each other.

我喜欢这一点。

I love that.

没错。

That's right.

那你有没有什么个人的故事或经历？

So do you have any personal stories or experience experiences?

关于性吗？

With sex?

哦，我有一大堆。

Oh, I got a million.

哦，亲爱的。

Oh, honey.

我有很多。

I got many.

听好了。

Well, listen.

我想从这里开始讲。

This is where I wanna start with this.

现在，我认为性亲密是另一个话题。

Now and I believe sexual intimacy is another conversation.

我的意思是，想象一下你有个女朋友。

What I mean by that is think about if you had a girlfriend.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你根本不知道，这其实是你第一次见她。

You didn't know, like, this was the very first time you were meeting her.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你当时根本不知道你们将来会发展出如此亲密的关系。

You didn't know down the road how intimate of a connection you guys would have.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这是你们的第一次对话。

So this is your first conversation.

你们进行了这么一段小小的对话。

You have this little conversation.

然后你们各自去忙自己的事了。

You go on about your business.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后你再回来，下一次你们进行更深入的对话时，你会惊讶地想：哇，我真想更了解她，因为哇，我们这里有一些相似的地方。

And then you come back and the next time you have a more intimate conversation, you're like, wow, I wanna get to know her better, you know, because wow, we we have some stuff that's similar here.

然后你继续前行，回来后又进行了一次更深入的对话，这让你更加被她吸引。

Then you go on, come back and you have an even deeper conversation and it draws you to her.

所以，如果我把这一点和性亲密相比较，比如说，你们结婚了。

And so if I take that and look at that in the same way as sexual intimacy is, like, let's say that you get married.

你期待着将来会拥有的性关系。

You're looking forward to this sexual relationship that you're gonna have.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

首先，你对性生活有着自己的一些理想期待。

Number one, you have certain ideals of what you think this sex is gonna be.

但很多人甚至不会和配偶谈论这件事，对。

And then a lot of us won't even talk to our spouses about it Yeah.

因为我们觉得，我不想冒犯他们，也不想让他们觉得我不喜欢，但正因为不沟通，我们根本无法了解彼此的需求，也就无法实现双方的共同愉悦。

Because we're like, I don't wanna offend them or I don't wanna them to feel like I don't love it, but we're not talking so we're not even breaking down so that there's mutual pleasure for both.

对。

Yeah.

如果你和配偶进行这样的对话，这种交流会建立更深的亲密感。

Well, this conversation that you're having builds a deeper intimacy if you're having it with your spouse.

是的。

Yeah.

因为你必须经历一些小冲突。

Because you gotta have a little conflict.

我丈夫是这么说的：冲突能增进亲密感。

My husband says it this way, conflict builds intimacy.

所以，想想你和女朋友的关系吧。

So with your girlfriend, think about it.

当你们有过那么一次小摩擦，然后你们谈一谈，一直聊到凌晨一两点，直到达成共识，关系也就继续深化了。

When you had that relationship and y'all had that one little incident and you know and then you talk about it, you talk till one, two, three in the morning until you've come to a mutual understanding and then the relationship continues to build.

我们中有些人是那种非此即彼的类型。

And some of us are do or die.

那就是我的非此即彼姐妹。

That's my do or die sister.

是的。

Yeah.

我爱她到这种地步。

I love her that much.

对。

Yeah.

但我们不会和丈夫这样交流，因为敌人让我们相信，你会伤害他的自尊，会伤害他各种各样的感受。

But we won't have that with our husbands because the enemy has us believing you're gonna wound his ego, you're gonna wound all these different things.

所以我们没有和他进行这种能加深亲密感的对话。

And so we're not having this intimate conversation which builds deeper intimacy with him.

那么当你试图和他们沟通，而他们却封闭自己，或者特别敏感，你知道的，有时候可能也是我们女性接近他们的方式有问题。

So what about when you try to have a conversation and they shut down or maybe they are super sensitive, you know, and, and sometimes it could be the way that we as women approach them.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我想这也是年长的女性在教我们如何爱我们的丈夫的一部分。

I guess that's a part of the older women teaching us how to love our husbands.

但我的意思是，根据我听到的不同情况，有时候人们尝试沟通是有效的，但有时候却毫无进展，你知道吗？

But I mean, I think based on different things that I've heard, sometimes people try to have conversations and they work and then sometimes they don't go anywhere, you know?

好吧，这完全正确，但你想一想，你嫁给他是为了爱、珍惜，直到什么时候？

Okay, that's absolutely right but think about this, you'd married him to love, to cherish until what?

直到死亡将我们分开。

Death do us.

直到死亡将我们分离。

Death do you part.

所以问题就在这里。

So this is the thing.

如果你和其他任何人建立关系，并且你说：我会和这个人在一起，直到我们死去。

If you had a relationship with anybody else and and you said, I'm gonna be in this relationship till we die.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果第一次不成功，你需要做什么？

If at first you don't succeed, what do you need to do?

再试一次。

Try try again.

所以每当这位兄弟认为你会一直纠缠我，直到我进行这场对话时，你要明白，你进行这场对话不是为了随便聊聊。

And so every time when this brother thinks that she's gonna continue to be on me till I am I'm having this conversation because you're not just having this conversation just to have it.

你进行这场对话是为了与他建立亲密关系。

You're having it to pursue intimacy with him.

对。

Right.

你希望与他更深入地连接。

You wanna go deeper with him.

你希望与他的亲密程度，能超越你与母亲之间、以及你与最好的闺蜜之间的亲密关系。

You you know, you wanna be more intimate with him than your intimacy that you have with your mother and that you have with your best girlfriend.

我认为这才是你最重要的事。

I think that's the most important thing you do.

你希望打破那些仇敌想让你终生背负的高墙，因为你与丈夫不够亲密，上帝就无法得荣耀。

You wanna break down these walls that the enemy would have you live with the rest of your life so you're not intimate enough with your husband so God's glorified.

我与丈夫的关系不仅仅属于我们自己。

The relationship that I have with my husband isn't just for us.

它的目的是让上帝通过它得荣耀，使他人看见这份荣耀，并渴望知道我们是如何获得它的。

It's so that God is glorified through it so others can see this glory and wanna know how we got it.

而且这一点我们必须明白，因为在天堂里不会有性。

And this is the thing, we need to understand this because there will be no sex in heaven.

所以我们最好在这里就学会，因为这可是你唯一的机会。

And so we better get it here because that's all you get.

对。

Right.

我们需要赶紧去实现它。

We need to go ahead and get it up.

不只是进入，而是要真正理解这种亲密，将来我们与主同在时，所经历的亲密甚至会超越你今生所能体验的任何高潮。

Not just get it in, but get it so that we understand this intimacy and we're gonna have even greater, even better than any orgasm you can probably have with the with the lord himself one day.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我们必须弄明白这一点。

And so we gotta get this.

我们不能只是决定他关闭了心门。

We can't just decide he shut down.

他不想进行这样的对话。

He's he doesn't wanna have this this conversation.

这对他的伤害太大了。

It's it's too wounding for him.

这种伤痛是从哪里来的？

Where did that woundedness come from?

我再给你举个例子。

I'll give you another example.

我丈夫小时候遭受过性侵。

My husband was sexually abused as a child.

嗯。

Mhmm.

在我们结婚前，他就把这件事告诉了我。

He shared this with me prior to us getting married.

因此，在我们婚姻生活中，他童年经历的这件事一直困扰着我们的性亲密关系。

And so as we were going through marriage, it became that our sexual intimacy was being dogged by this thing that he had that had happened to him in his youth.

嗯。

Mhmm.

于是我开始和他谈这件事。

And so I'm having this conversation.

他会说，这不是你，罗宾。

He would say, it's not you, Robin.

这不是你。

It's not you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我就会想，那我们该怎么办？

And so I'm like, well, what do we need to do?

所以我们让他去接受了咨询，但我觉得咨询固然好，但总有个时候，咨询该停止了，夫妻之间的对话必须深入到他在我面前感到无比安全的程度。

So we he did counseling, but but I think counseling's good, but there's a time when counseling needs to stop and conversation with your spouse has to begin to such a level that he's so safe with me

是的。

Yeah.

任何话题都可以敞开谈。

That nothing is off limits.

所以，如果有位女士，你的丈夫不愿意进行这样的对话，你在他眼里是安全的吗？

And so in that same way, if you have a husband out there, lady, I don't know who you are that doesn't want to have this conversation, are you safe to him?

他能靠近你而不觉得你瞧不起他、不尊重他、不认可他吗？你又是用怎样的方式对他说话的呢？

Can he approach you without feeling like, you know, she looks down on me or she doesn't honor me or she doesn't respect me or how are you saying what you're saying to him?

因为我们很多人已经习惯了和孩子相处，有时会把丈夫当成自己的孩子来对待。

Because a lot of us have gotten comfortable relating to children that we sometimes treat our husband like they're our our child.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这会让他觉得，等等，她并不安全。

And and and that would make him, you know, be like, hold up, she's not safe.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但当你达到一种安全的状态时，你的丈夫会愿意与你分享一切，你也应该能够接纳并渴望与他分享一切，因为安全感是促进亲密感的另一重要因素。

But when you get to a place where you're safe, your husband wants to share everything with you and you should be able to receive and want to share everything with him because safety is another thing that brings intimacy.

当你想到对话时，会发现有太多不同类型的对话。

When you think of conversations, there are so many different conversations.

你可能会有愉快的

You may have happy

但也需要有生死攸关的对话。

And there needs to be deadly conversations too.

比如当有人去世时，你得进行那样的对话。

Conversations, you know, when somebody dies and you have that conversation.

性亲密也是如此。

And the same thing in sexual intimacy.

如果性行为不能让双方都感到愉悦，比如他让你来口交，而你心里想，你知道吗？

If sex is not mutually pleasing to both, if he's like, come give me a blow job and you're like, you know what?

这对我来说毫无意义。

That does nothing for me.

是的。

Yeah.

那么，这种行为就不应该成为你们性亲密的一部分。

Then then that shouldn't be a part of your sexual intimacy.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果真是这样，那你们就彼此错过了。

And if that is, then you're missing each other.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果她觉得，这是我唯一喜欢的方式，而他却想尝试些不同的东西。

If she's like, this is the only way I like it, and he's like, I wanna try something different.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那你可能得说，你知道吗？

Then you may have to say, you know what?

我对此感到安心，因为这是我母亲告诉我的应该如此的方式。

I'm comfortable with this because this is the way my mother told me it should happen.

你可能得说，让我走出自己的舒适区。

You may have to say, let me get out of my comfort zone.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

要一直停留在原地，不去进行那些艰难的对话，实在太容易了。

It's so easy to just remain and not have the conversations that would be, you know, those those hard conversations.

但正是这些艰难的对话，才能让你从一种亲密深度迈向更深的亲密。

But those hard conversations are the one that you that move you from one depth of intimacy to a deeper depth of intimacy.

是的。

Yeah.

我听到你说的是第一点，妥协。

And what I hear you saying is one, compromise.

你知道，你们必须妥协，满足彼此的需求。

You know, you have to compromise and meet each other's needs.

因为我觉得总有一种恐惧，就是如果我不这么做，他就不会开心。

Because I think there's always a fear of like, well, if I don't do this, then he's not going to be pleased.

你明白我的意思吗？

Know what I mean?

所以有时候，女性会陷入只取悦他人而不被取悦的陷阱，而有些男性会让她们觉得，这本来就应该如此，你必须达到这个标准，能够做到这些，因为这是我想要的。

So then, sometimes women fall into the trap of just pleasing and not being pleased and, and some men make them feel like that, like, well, is the way it should be and you should basically be up to this standard and be able to do this because this is what I want.

我听到你说的另一点是忍耐。

Other thing I heard you saying was endurance.

就像这场对话是一场漫长的对话。

Like this conversation is a long conversation.

没错。

That's right.

长期忍耐。

Long suffering.

我说长期忍耐，是因为这不会容易。

You know, and I say long suffering because it's not gonna be easy.

你们必须面对一些非常艰难、具有挑战性的问题，而要做到这一点并不容易。

There's gonna be some really hard challenging things that you have to talk about, and it's not gonna be easy to do that.

你必须与基督建立个人的关系。

You have to have a personal relationship with Christ.

是的。

Yes.

我指的是那些丈夫也与基督有个人关系的女性。

And I'm talking to the woman whose husband has a personal relationship with Christ too.

因为如果你和一个以自我为中心的人在一起，即使他们声称认识基督，你也需要为他们与基督的关系祷告。

Because if if you're involved with somebody who is self centered, but they say they know Christ, you need to pray for their relationship with Christ.

得了吧。

Come on now.

因为整件事的核心就是不要自私。

Because the whole thing is are not being selfish.

性亲密从来就不该是自私的。

Sexual intimacy was never supposed to be selfish.

所以如果我说你最好跟上节奏，喜欢我喜欢的，因为我喜欢。

So if I'm saying you better get with the program and like what I like because I like it

是的。

Yeah.

那么他就不是在做一个舍己的仆人。

Then he is not wanting to be a sacrificial servant.

因此，即使在性方面，我们也应当彰显神的爱、尊荣和荣耀。

And it and it's important that even sexually, we display the love, the honor, and the glory of God.

所以如果你在性方面决定一切都以自己为中心，那你已经得到了所有该得的赞美。

And so if you decide sexually, this is all about me, then you've already gotten all your props.

但如果你决定要彼此取悦她，也要彼此取悦他，那么神就能从这当中得荣耀。

But if you decide I wanna mutually please her and I want to mutually please him, then God is getting the glory out of this.

你之前提到一个词，说要祷告，因为很多时候我们身处各种困境，束手无策。

You said a word earlier when you said that basically pray because a lot of times we are in so many different situations where we're stuck.

我们被困住了。

We're stuck.

是的。

Yes.

我们甚至看不到你所说的这种对话怎么可能实现。

And we don't even see how this conversation that you're talking about is even possible.

你知道，听起来不错，罗宾女士，

You know, it sounds good, Ms.

但你并不了解我现在所处的境地。

Robin, but you don't know where I am right now.

我不是说那个，我是想说，比如，

You know, I'm not saying that but I'm saying like,

不，这就是你和人们所说的。

no, that's what you that's what people are saying.

是的，你根本不了解我们的处境，你没见过我的丈夫，你无法理解我们的状况。

Yeah, like you don't understand where we you don't know my husband, you can't see our situation.

这听起来不错。

That sounds good.

这真美好。

That's lovely.

但我想对你说的是，祷告是为了看见神的作为。

But what I would say to you is prayer just to see God work.

我的亲身经历是真正地禁食祷告，让神来工作，因为不是所有事情都会一夜之间发生。

Mean, my personal experience is truly fasting and prayer and allowing God to work, you know, because everything's not going to happen overnight.

没错。

That's right.

如果你正处在一个看似黯淡、黑暗的境况中，看不到任何希望，无法想象怎会有如此美好的对话，就像罗宾太太所说的那样。

If you're in a situation that looks dim, that looks dark, and you do not see the light of day of how it could possibly be this wonderful conversation that Mrs.

罗宾正在与我们分享，给我们带来希望，让我们祷告并求神动工，你知道的，祂一定会，要信靠，不要试图独自承担。

Robin is sharing with us and giving us hope about pray and ask God to move, you know, and he will and trust and don't try to do it on your own.

我认为这是我们容易养成的另一种习惯。

I think that's the other thing that we get in the habit of doing.

我们祷告之后，就开始策划如何应对

We pray and then we start to strategize on how we're gonna

没错。

That's right.

我之前跟你们说过，我有十个孩子。

And this is the thing I shared with you that I have 10 kids.

是的。

Yeah.

我之前跟你们说过，我丈夫曾遭受性侵。

I shared with you that my husband was sexually abused.

我还跟你们说过，那段时间他不得不接受心理咨询。

I shared with you also that he had to go to counseling during that time.

我一个接一个地生孩子。

I'm having baby after baby after baby.

哇。

Wow.

我丈夫正在接受针对童年时期遭受性虐待的咨询，这影响了他成年后的状态。

My husband's in counseling for sexual abuse that he experienced as a child and it's affecting him as an adult.

那么在他离开的时候，我该做些什么呢？

And so what do I do during the time when he's away?

我禁食。

I fast.

记住，我一直在怀孕。

Now remember, I'm pregnant all the time.

明白吗？

Alright?

所以我在那天只能禁食一定的时间。

So I can only fast a certain amount of hours during that day.

但从早餐开始，那天早上我醒来时就知道，他该去进行治疗了。

But from breakfast, when I got up in the morning and I knew on that Monday morning that it was time for him to go have that session

是的。

Mhmm.

那就是我从早上开始禁食，直到下午晚些时候的时间。

That was my time to fast until afternoon down.

我不希望伤害上帝赐予我的这个孩子。

I I don't wanna injure this baby that God has housed in me.

对。

Right.

所以我知道我必须吃东西。

So I know I have to eat.

我不希望在某个地方晕倒。

I don't wanna be passing out someplace.

对。

Right.

所以我的禁食必须要有智慧。

So my fasting has to be sensible.

是的。

Yeah.

但还是要禁食。

But fast still.

我仍然在放弃某些东西，是的。

I'm still surrendering something Yes.

献给主。

To the Lord.

让他知道这对我来说很重要。

Let him know this is important to me.

主啊，我觉得我必须对此充满迫切之心。

Lord, I think it's I gotta be desperate about it.

对。

Yes.

我希望对这段关系充满迫切感，它甚至在我认识他之前就已经深深影响了我的丈夫。

And I wanna be desperate about this relationship that has so affected my husband even before I knew him.

你知道，甚至在他还不明白这一切究竟意味着什么的时候。

You know, even before he knew what all of this stuff that happening to him was about.

是的。

Yeah.

主啊，我渴望这一切彻底消失。

But I want this totally gone, Lord.

所以我要放弃这些餐食，把这段时间用来祷告，嗯。

So I'm gonna give up these meals and use that time as praying time Mhmm.

坐在主面前。

To sit before the Lord.

我仍然在为家里的孩子们准备早餐，还怀着另一个孩子，但我禁食是因为我迫切需要神掌管这个领域。

I'm still fixing breakfast for the little ones I have at home, still carrying another baby, but I'm fasting because I'm desperate for God's control over this area.

我告诉你一件事，我现在的丈夫和我刚结婚时已经完全不同了，你也可以做到。

And I tell you one thing, I have a different husband that I had when I first married and you can too.

如果你正在收听这个播客，你也可以拥有一个不同于以往的丈夫或关系，但姐妹们，这不会凭你自己实现。

If you're listening to this podcast, you can have a different husband or a different relationship than you ever had, but you're not gonna get it in and of yourself, ladies.

是的。

Yes.

这意味着要放弃一些东西。

And that means giving up some stuff.

我们不喜欢放弃某些东西，因为说实话，我们自己也相当以自我为中心。

And we don't like giving up some stuff because truth is we're pretty self centered ourselves.

没错。

Right.

来吧，但那

Come on But that

你在为你的配偶祷告，因为仇敌利用了他生命中的某些东西来压制他，而他是这段关系的领袖。

you're praying for your you're praying for your spouse because the enemy has used something in his life to hold him down, and he is the leader of the relationship.

以弗所书告诉我们这一点。

Ephesians tells us that.

如果你不相信我，我甚至都不用说。

If you don't believe me, I don't even have to say it.

看看以弗所书第五章。

Look at Ephesians five.

它在二十几节或三十几节那里。

It's down there in the twenties or the thirties.

但你看看以弗所书第五章，就能明白神创造男人，是要他在关系中作领袖。

But you look at Ephesians five, and you can see that God created that man to be the leader in the relationship.

你以为我喜欢这么说吗？

You think I like to say that?

我觉得我自己当个领袖挺不错的，但那并不是神创造我所要我承担的角色。

I think I would be a pretty good leader, but that was not the role God created me to get to have.

所以，如果他希望我丈夫在关系中作领袖，他就需要帮助。

And so if he wants my husband to be the leader in the relationship, he needs help.

我能帮他的最好方式，就是为他祷告、禁食，向万王之王、万主之主代求。

And the best way I can help him is praying and fasting and talking to the king of kings and lord of lords on his behalf.

是时候让我们停止这些游戏了。

It's time for us to quit the games Yeah.

因为敌人让我们原地打转，一直如此。

Because the enemy has us running around in circles, the same.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们必须确保自己不仅越来越靠近与丈夫的关系，也越来越亲近主。

And we need to make sure that we are always moving more towards not only this relationship with our husband, but moving more towards the Lord.

如果你亲近主，你的丈夫也亲近主，那么你们离主越近，彼此也就越近。

And if you're moving towards the Lord and your husband is moving towards the Lord, the closer you get to the Lord, the closer you get to your husband.

这很好。

That's good.

我们希望神得荣耀，而荣耀归于他。

And we want God to be glorified and then he gets the glory of it.

对。

Yes.

我想补充一点，我想对正在听的你，就是你，说一句：你真的愿意付出努力吗？

And I just want to add, I'm gonna say to you listening, yes you, are you really willing to put in the work?

因为瑞宾女士告诉我们，我们必须付出努力，而很多时候我们很自私，只关注他哪里不好，也确实能看到他哪里不好。

Because that's what miss Robin is telling us to do, we got to put in work and a lot of times we are selfish, and we wanna see what's wrong with him, and we do see what's wrong with him.

而且这是真实的。

And and it's real.

你知道的，这是真实的。

It it you know, it's real.

但与此同时，你愿意付出努力来让这段婚姻维系下去吗？

But at the same time, are you willing to put in the work to make this marriage work?

我能马上改一下你一个词吗？

Can I change one of your words real fast?

别让他们说‘他哪里不好’。

Don't want them to say what's wrong with him.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我希望他们说的是他与众不同的地方，因为并不是他有什么问题。

I want them to say what's different with him because it's not that anything is wrong with him.

有些事情发生了，这些与你自己的经历不同。

There's some things that have happened and they're different than your own experiences.

上帝在他身上创造了一些东西，与他创造在你身上的完全不同。

There are some things that God created in him that are totally different than he's created in you.

猜猜怎么着？

And guess what?

我相信这些都是有目的的。

I believe they're purposeful.

甚至我

Even the I

相信这些事？

believe things?

嗯，我不知道你说的‘坏’是什么意思，因为你的自私行为也同样糟糕。

Well, I don't know what you mean by bad because your selfish behavior is just as bad.

你的自私，以及你认为他有问题，这在上帝面前同样糟糕。

Your selfishness and you thinking something is wrong with him is just as bad before God.

我的意思是，女士们，你们听好了。

I mean and I'm not listen, ladies.

我不是说，如果那个弟兄在外面乱来，而你选择留下，这完全没问题。

I'm not saying if that brother is out running around on you, that that's not totally bad if you decided to stay.

但那是另一件事，你需要跪下来祷告，不要总拿他过去的那些事来责备他，因为我们这里经常有这样的人，这是我家丈夫的办公室。

But that's another thing you need to stay on your knees about, And don't keep washing his face in past affairs or something like that because we get people in here this is my husband's office.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我们经常在这里接待一些人，和他们交谈、劝勉、鼓励。

But we get people in here all the time that we're talking to, counseling with, encouraging.

你当初答应做他的妻子并选择留下。

You said yes to being his wife and staying.

是的。

Yes.

他有了婚外情，但我们需要处理的是婚外情这一面，而不是停留在这里或固守于此。

He had this affair, but we need to work on this side of the affair, not staying here or remaining here.

嗯。

Mhmm.

留在这里太容易了。

It's so easy to remain here.

所以，是的，可能有些事情你觉得是错的，但我觉得有些所谓的‘错’，其实是那些尚未交托的领域。

And so, yes, there are some things that maybe, you know, would you consider wrong, but I I would consider some of the and I'm putting quotes over this wrong wrong things, areas that haven't been surrendered.

因为如果我们能让这种情况转变，让这个男人问：‘谁在为我祷告？’

Because if we can get this to a place where this man is like, who's been praying for me?

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为有一个领域，我必须放弃。

Because there's this area I gotta give up.

然后他们可以将这个领域与其他弟兄分享，以免他们走上同样的路，从而让神得荣耀。

And then they can go and share that area with other brothers before they walk that same path and God is glorified in it.