Climate 2026: Record Heat, Tens of Thousands Dead, Mass Evacuations

欧洲正在经历今年夏天的第四波热浪，而美国大部分地区也还陷在热浪里。

Europe is baking in its fourth heat wave of the summer, while much of The US is still locked in its own heat wave.

是的。

Yeah.

我看了加州死亡谷的天气预报。

I looked at the forecast for Death Valley, California.

那里可能非常热。

It's probably quite hot.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

我去过那里。

I've been there.

确实很热。

It was hot.

华氏125度。

A 125 Fahrenheit.

这个周末是53摄氏度。

That's 53 Celsius for this weekend.

但你不一定要去沙漠才能遇到这种极端、可怕、危险的高温。

But you don't need to be in the desert to get that kind of really extreme, appalling, dangerous temperatures.

在美国，有7000万人目前正经历高达105华氏度（40摄氏度）的温度。

Across The US, 70,000,000 people will experience temperatures of up to a 105 Fahrenheit 40 Celsius at the moment.

我们当然知道是什么导致了这一切。

We know, of course, what's driving this.

那就是燃烧大量化石燃料造成的气候危机。

It's the climate crisis caused by burning huge amounts of fossil fuels.

但这一期，我们要探讨的是，在这个气候变化了的时代，热浪的模式发生了怎样的变化。

But this episode, what we're looking at is how in this climate changed era, the pattern of heat waves has changed.

所以我们会看看目前在欧洲燃烧的野火。

So we'll be looking at things like the wildfires currently burning in Europe.

我们还会探讨一种给城市社区降温的方法。

We'll also be looking at a method of cooling city neighborhoods.

这里是《新科学家》播客，《世界、宇宙和我们》。

From New Scientist, this is the world, the universe, and us.

我是罗温·胡珀博士。

I'm doctor Rowan Hooper.

我是彭妮·萨切特博士。

And I'm doctor Penny Sarchet.

今天和我们一起的还有记者迈克尔·勒佩奇和亚历克·卢恩。

We're joined today by reporters Michael Le Page and Alec Luhn.

欢迎两位。

Welcome both.

你们好。

Hello.

嘿，大家好。

Hey, guys.

是的。

Yeah.

我们先从欧洲最近的这个热穹顶说起。

Let's start with this latest heat dome over Europe.

这是一个欧米伽阻塞，也就是急流中一个像希腊字母欧米伽那样的弯曲。

It's an omega block, which is a kink in the jet stream shaped like the Greek letter omega.

Alec，我们可能会忍不住想说，这种弯曲之所以越来越常见是因为气候变化，但跟很多类似的事情一样，我们不能完全确定，对吧？

And Alec, it is tempting to suggest that these kinks that we're getting are getting more common because of climate change, but as with a lot of these things, we we we can't say that for sure, can we?

对。

Yeah.

我是说，我想首先得说的是，这种弯曲确实会导致更长时间的热浪。

I mean, I I think the first thing to say is just that these kinks, they do cause longer heat waves.

最近有一项研究发现了这两种急流模式。

There this research that came out recently found that there are these two jet stream patterns.

其中一种是这种omega阻塞，就是急流中形成一个像omega那样的大环，基本上让一个高空反气旋、晴朗高压系统直接停留在欧洲上空，让太阳一直暴晒整个大陆。

One is this omega blocking, this omega shaped big loop in the jet stream that essentially allows a big anticyclonic clear skied high pressure system to just sit over Europe and allow the sun to just bake the continent.

另一种则是急流北移，急流从欧洲北部绕过去，然后大量热空气就可以从非洲过来，基本上就是这样的情况。

And the other is a northward shift in the jet stream where the jet stream goes way North of Europe, and then that allows a lot of hot air to come up from Africa, essentially.

这两种模式，都跟特别长的热浪有关，能持续十天、两周，甚至更久。

Both these patterns, they've been linked to especially long heat waves, ten days, two weeks, even more.

但是，对，它们是不是因为气候变化变得更频繁，这是个很大的争议。

But, yeah, whether they're happening more frequently with climate change is a big debate.

基本上说，我们已经知道急流在冬季会向北移动。

Essentially, we understand that the jet stream is shifting northward in the wintertime.

这点已经被证实了。

That's been proven.

但夏天急流到底在做什么，就还不太清楚了。

But it's not clear what the jet stream is doing in the summertime.

夏天的时候，北极和赤道都会升温，而这两个温度中心之间的温差，随着全球变暖正在缩小。所以这就意味着急流会变弱，但还不能确定它会不会移动位置。

In the summertime, you have heating in the Arctic, you have heating at the Equator, the gradient, the difference between those two centers of temperature is decreasing essentially as world warms up, which would suggest a weaker jet stream, but it's not clear that it would shift the jet stream.

长话短说，研究者们意见不一致。

Long story short, researchers are disagree.

大多数人不愿意说这些模式正变得更频繁，但当然，它确实有可能越来越频繁地出现，这可能性还是存在的。

Most are not willing to say that these patterns are becoming more frequent, but certainly, you know, it remains a possibility that they could start to be seen more frequently.

不过尽管存在这些不确定性，有些事情我们还是可以确定的。

But despite that uncertainty, there are some things that we can be sure of.

炎热的季节开始得更早了。

The hot seasons are starting earlier.

今年我们肯定感受到了这一点，对吧？

We definitely felt that this year, right?

是的。

Yeah.

夜间的热压力越来越严重。

Heat stress at night is getting worse.

我们之前谈过热带夜晚，那些夜晚有多糟糕。

We've talked before about tropical nights and how horrible those are.

而且热浪来袭时，持续时间也更长了。

And also the heat waves, when they come, they're lasting longer.

对，说到热浪，它基本上可能由两种原因之一引起。

Yeah, when you think of a heat wave, it essentially can be caused by one of two things.

第一种就是我们刚才聊到的，比如欧米伽阻塞这类大气环流模式，还有大气环流的差异，对吧？

The first one is what we just talked about, some stuff like omega blocking, these different atmospheric patterns, differences in atmospheric circulation, right?

这些会带来反气旋天气，从而促进高温热浪的形成。

They can bring this anticyclonic weather that promotes hot weather heat waves.

但另外，就是气温本身在升高。

But also, there's just rising temperatures.

当全球变暖持续，各地的气温都在上升。

When you have global warming going on, temperatures are going up everywhere.

这意味着背景温度本身就更高了，也就是说，你已经在更容易发展出热浪的起点上了。

That means that that background temperature is just that much higher, which means that you're already in a place from which a heat wave can develop more easily.

所以，仅仅因为全球变暖、气温上升，我们就已经看到更频繁、更强烈、更持久的热浪了。

So just the mere fact of global warming, of temperatures rising, means that we are seeing more frequent, more intense, and longer heat waves just due to that alone.

而大气环流的问题仍然是一个悬而未决的问题。

And then the atmospheric circulation question remains an open question.

迈克尔，我们最近聊过气候危机对食物的影响，以及它如何真正开始影响我们的食物供应。

Michael, we talked recently about the impact of the climate crisis on our food and how that's gonna really start affecting our food supply.

但这其实只是问题之一，对吧？

But that's just really one of the problems, isn't it?

是的。

Yes.

这种更持久、更极端的热浪带来的影响太多了。

There's so many impacts of these sort of longer, extreme heat waves.

食物显然是其中一个大问题。

Food's obviously a big one.

另一个我们现在看到的问题是，天气变热，植被就会干枯。

The other that we're seeing at the moment is when it gets hotter, the vegetation dries out.

这就更容易引发野火。

That makes wildfires more likely.

而且也会让火情变得更严重。

It also makes them more likely to get worse.

当然，我们现在在西班牙和法国看到的就是这种情况，几十万人被疏散，还有人死亡。

And, of course, we're seeing that in Spain and France with hundreds of thousands of people being evacuated and some deaths.

另外，即使在苏格兰和凯恩戈姆地区，我们也出现了山火。

Also even in Scotland and the Cairngorms, we're having these wildfires.

当然，山火本身就很严重，会对景观造成直接破坏，还会危及居民的生命财产安全。

And then of course, the wildfires are bad enough in themselves and can do all that direct damage to the landscape and and sort of harm people in their homes as well.

此外，山火产生的烟雾和空气污染也会危害人们的健康，并引发一系列连锁反应。

But then there's the smoke from the wildfires, the air pollution, which is harming people's health and having knock on effects.

旅游业也受到了影响，这将带来相应的经济冲击。

There's tourism, which has been affected, and that's gonna have these sort of knock on economic impacts.

我们看到法国的波尔多也受到了影响，这可能会波及当地的葡萄酒产业。因为据称野火产生的烟雾会被某些葡萄吸收，从而污染它们并引发问题。

We've seen sort of Bordeaux has been affected in France, and that could possibly affect the wine industry there because apparently smoke from wildfires can be absorbed by some grapes and and sort of taint it and and cause problems.

哇。

Wow.

所以即使葡萄园本身没有被大火烧毁，那些巨大的烟尘云团也会……对，会影响葡萄酒的品质。

So even if the the vineyard themselves isn't burned by a fire, like, the these huge dust smoke clouds will can, yeah, contain the wine.

是的。

Yes.

据说目前还没有哪家葡萄园直接着火，但大家担心烟雾会影响收成质量。

Apparently, none of the vineyards have actually burnt directly yet, but there is this worry about the smoke affecting the quality of the harvest.

而且据说，要等酒酿出来尝过之后才能知道有没有受影响。

And apparently, can't actually tell until you've made the wine and tasted it.

所以这是个大事。

So that's major one.

然后呢，在这些野火频发的地区，房屋保险和火灾保险肯定会有问题，保费也会上涨。

And then, of course, in these areas where we're having more wildfire, there's obviously gonna be issues with home insurance and getting insurance against fires, premiums are gonna go up.

所以就是一环扣一环，影响没完没了。

So there there are just so many impact after impact after impact.

因为我们考虑保险时通常想到的是洪水风险，但真没怎么想过火灾风险。

Because we we think about insurance when about flood risk, but haven't really thought about it with fire risk as well.

不过确实，是这样的。

But of course, and yeah.

所以这又是一个新问题。

So that's yet another issue.

再说说今年欧洲的火灾，到目前为止，法国遭受的火灾破坏程度是自二战以来最严重的。

And about those fires in Europe, so far this year, fires have caused more destruction in France than at any time there since the second world war.

西班牙也遭遇了创纪录的野火破坏。

And Spain has also had record wildfire destruction.

不过大家可能不太了解的是，野火其实能形成一种近乎自主运行的天气系统。

But one thing that people may not know about wildfires is that they can actually create their own almost self driving weather systems.

亚历克？

Alec?

对，这个周末我们在法国看到了这种情况。这是该国历史上首次记录到一种叫做‘火积雨云’的现象，也就是俗称的‘火云’。

Yeah, we saw in France this weekend, for the first time ever in that country, they registered what's called a pyrocumulonimbus cloud, which is also known as a fire cloud.

它本质上就是一种在野火上方形成的雷暴。

It is essentially a thunderstorm that forms over a wildfire.

具体情况是这样的：野火的温度非常高。

What happens is wildfires are very hot.

火场中心温度能超过1000摄氏度，这会加热空气，将热气流、烟雾和湿气像巨大的雷暴云团一样推入高空大气层。

They can reach over 1,000 degrees Celsius at the center of them, and that heats the air and sends a plume of hot air, smoke, and moisture up into the atmosphere that rises like one of these big thunderheads that you see when a thunderstorm comes.

这些雷暴云实际上能到达平流层，就像小规模火山喷发时向大气中排放的烟雾量差不多。

And those thunderheads can reach the stratosphere actually, similar to a small volcanic eruption in terms of of how much smoke they can put in the atmosphere.

而且，确实，它们还会形成自己的天气系统。

But they also, yes, create their own weather system.

上升的热空气会把周围的空气吸进来补充，这会大大增强风力。

So that rising hot air is pulling in air to replace it from around the wildfire, which greatly increases the winds.

所以它加速了野火周围的风速。

So it's accelerating the winds around the wildfire.

虽然这些风暴系统会降雨，但通常雨滴根本到不了地面，因为在落地之前就被热空气蒸发了。

Then although these storm systems, they do drop rainfall, but typically those raindrops don't actually reach the ground because they evaporate in the hot air before they reach the ground.

不过，还有闪电，闪电往往能到达地面，引发新的火点。

However, there's also lightning, and the lightning does tend to reach the ground and start spot fires.

与此同时，风把余烬吹向主火前方。

Meanwhile, the winds are blowing embers in front of the main fire.

所以，由于这个新的天气系统，主火周围会不断冒出更多新火点。

So there's all these additional fires starting up around the main fire because of this new weather system.

这一切都会让火势加剧，进而让上升的热空气更强，然后让云层在火灾风暴的循环中不断升级。

All of that intensifies the fire, which intensifies that rising hot air, which intensifies the cloud in a firestorm feedback.

所以这真的是一个非常危险的天气系统。

And so it's a super dangerous weather system.

它的不可预测性极强，因为高空的风可能会让火势方向变得难以捉摸。

It's incredibly unpredictable because you can have winds high in the atmosphere changing the direction of the fire unpredictably.

这可能会导致人员死亡。

It can lead to deaths.

基本上是不可能阻止的。

It's basically impossible to stop.

而这就是法国开始出现的现象。

And that's what they're starting to see in France.

这种情况在北美、俄罗斯、澳大利亚都有发生，但在欧洲非常少见。

This happens in North America, in Russia, in Australia, but it's been very rare in Europe.

而如今，因为欧洲的野火规模变得更大，这种情况也开始在欧洲出现了。

And now because Europe's getting bigger wildfires, it's starting to happen in Europe.

看到那么大的雷暴云真是太可怕了。

It is terrifying to see that massive thunderhead like that.

说到不可预测性，我想问一下政治上的反应。

But about unpredictability, one thing I wanted to ask about is the kind of political response to this.

显然，现在西班牙和法国的情况特别紧急，确实是大规模的紧急状态。

And obviously, it's an emergency in especially in Spain and France, massive emergency at the moment.

西班牙首相佩德罗·桑切斯说，气候紧急情况已经超出了科学家长期以来对西班牙和欧洲警告的所有阈值和范围。

The prime minister of Spain, Pedro Sanchez, said this climate emergency is exceeding every threshold and scale that scientists have long warned all of Spain and Europe about.

在我看来，这有点像是在找借口。

And that seemed to me like a little bit of an excuse.

他在努力找借口，说哦，我们不知道会发生这种情况。

He was trying to make an excuse saying, oh, we didn't know this was coming.

我们被搞得措手不及。

We've we've been caught out.

我想知道他对那个说法怎么看。

I wonder what he made of that.

嗯，关于更多野火、更多高温和更多野火的警告已经很多了。

Well, there have been so many warnings about more wildfires, know, more heat and more wildfires.

所以我觉得没人能说自己没被警告过。

So I I don't think anyone can claim they haven't been warned.

至于这些是否超过了预测的水平，我确实报道过一些研究，说在世界某些地区，包括欧洲，热浪已经超过了几年之前的预测。

Whether these are exceeding the levels projected, I think I've I've certainly reported on studies that said in some parts of the world, including Europe, heat waves are exceeding the sort of projections from, you know, a few few years back.

其中一个原因可能是Alec提到的急流变化，但显然我们无法确定。

One of the reasons for that could be what Alec was was talking about with the changes in the jet stream, but, obviously, we can't be sure of that.

所以如果热浪更极端，野火风险也更严重也是合理的，但我没看到专门针对这个的研究。

So if the heat waves are more extreme, it makes sense that the wildfire risk would be a bit worse too, but I'm not aware of any studies looking specifically at that.

当然，野火非常复杂，因为在欧洲它们发生在人类管理的景观中。

And of course, wildfires, there's so much complexity in wildfires because they're happening in human managed landscapes in Europe.

我们改变景观，建了城市和农场，管理着这些景观，这显然对野火发生地点和严重程度有很大影响。

You know, we're changing the landscape, we've built cities and farms, we're managing that landscape, and that obviously has a huge impact on where the wildfires start and how bad they get.

气候危机显然在起作用，但还有人为因素，对吧？

The climate crisis is clearly contributing to this, but there's also a human factor, right?

正如迈克尔提到的，有一些研究显示，欧洲的野火可能正在减少，因为基本上管理得越来越好了。

As Michael's mentioning, there's some research coming out that finds that these wildfires may be getting less common in Europe because essentially there's been better, better management.

但与此同时，由于气候危机，火灾确实会开始发生，而且一旦变大，就更容易失控。

But at the same time, because of the climate crisis, the fires do start up and when they do get big, they're much more likely to get out of control.

但这是我们可以应对的。

But that's something we can respond to.

而且大家一直在讨论的一个办法就是控制性燃烧。

And one thing that has been talked about is the use of controlled burns.

在北美这样的地方，野火很多，而且基本上一直都有，当然现在还在增加。

In places like North America, where there are a lot of wildfires and there have been for forever essentially, and of course they are increasing.

但北美原住民传统上做的一件事就是控制性燃烧，用来清除灌木和低矮植被，这样它们就不会助长野火，野火就不会变得很大，烧掉大树。

But one of the things that North American indigenous groups have done traditionally is controlled burns to kind of take out the brush and low level vegetation so that those can't fuel these wildfires, which then get really big and burn the big trees.

所以欧洲可以借鉴这个做法，多做控制性燃烧，抑制灌木，减少野火变得大到无法控制的可能性，比如形成自己的天气系统，产生火积云之类的。

So Europe could take a page out of that book and do more essentially controlled burns to suppress the brush and reduce the chance that these wildfires get so big that you can't stop them anymore, that they create their own weather system with a fire cloud or what have you.

因为这两者是有联系的。

Because there is a connection.

我接下来要引入一些植物生物学的知识，

I'm going to bring in some plant biology here,

那当然。

obviously.

就是

The

地中海生态系统在长期的进化过程中，一直是一个以火灾为主导的生态系统，它和加利福尼亚以及澳大利亚西南部的植被有很多相似之处。

ecosystem in the Mediterranean traditionally throughout evolution has been a fire dominated ecosystem and there's loads of similarities with the vegetation that you get in California and also Southwestern Australia.

所以这些生态系统是在火灾中进化出来的。

So these are ecosystems that evolved for fire.

对。

Yeah.

而且，正如亚历克所说，随着我们越来越擅长控制和管理火灾，这些植被反而会积累更多的可燃物，增加潜在的燃烧风险。

And and as Alec was saying, as we get better at suppressing and managing that, they just sort of build up the kind of burning potential.

所以这就说得通了。

So that that makes a lot of sense.

该休息一下了。

Time for a quick break.

肠道微生物能影响我们大脑的想法，长期以来一直受到质疑，但现在不同了。

The idea that gut microbes can affect our minds was long met with scepticism, but no more.

微生物神经科学如今已发展到人体临床试验阶段，正在探索肠道菌群与抑郁、焦虑等心理健康问题之间的联系。

Microbial neuroscience has now advanced to the point where human clinical trials are exploring the links between gut flora and mental health conditions, such as depression and anxiety.

生物技术巨头ADM的专家们正在率先开展这类研究，以理清这些联系背后的机制。

The experts at biotech leader ADM are pioneering studies like these to unpick the mechanisms underlying these connections.

想了解更多，请搜索New Scientist CoLab ADM，阅读完整文章。

To find out how, search New Scientist CoLab ADM to read the full feature.

本消息由ADM赞助播出。

This message is sponsored by ADM.

好的。

Okay.

那我们接下来聊的是适应机制。

So we're we're talking about adaptations then.

在这样一个加速升温的未来，我们能做些什么呢？

What can we do in in this heat heat accelerated future?

还有亚历克，这周你一直在研究的一个适应措施是城市用来给自己降温的方法。

And Alec, one thing you've been looking into this week is an adaptation that cities can use to cool themselves down.

这一点非常重要。

And this is really important.

我们之前聊过，仅六月的热浪估计就在欧洲范围内造成了大约两万人死亡。

We've talked before the June heat wave alone is estimated to have killed twenty thousand people across Europe.

所以现在防范高温导致的死亡，适应措施已经变得至关重要了。

So adaptation preventing heat deaths is of critical importance right now.

对，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

而且你知道，人们首先就会想，嗯，欧洲正变得越来越热。

And, you know, people immediately think, oh, well, Europe's getting hotter.

现在又一波热浪正在袭击欧洲。

Another heat wave is hitting Europe right now.

我们需要安装空调。

We need to install air conditioning.

空调在欧洲还很少见。

Air conditioning is still rare in Europe.

大概只有四分之一或五分之一欧洲人有空调，就这么点。

Something like, one in four, one in five Europeans have air conditioning, that's it.

所以大家自然会想到空调，但空调可能很贵，安装改造工作量也大，而且实际上会让问题更严重，对吧？

So people of course immediately think of air conditioning, but that can be expensive, that's a lot of retrofitting of air conditioning, and it actually worsens the problem, right?

因为运行空调需要大量能源，而且当家里被空调降温时，热量被排到屋外，加剧了城市热岛效应，让本就热的环境更热，这又反过来让人更依赖空调。

Because you need a lot of energy to run that air conditioning, and when your home is being cooled by the air conditioning, it's ejecting that hot outside of your home, which is worsening the urban heat island effect, it's worsening the heat that's going on, that's necessitating that air conditioning.

所以一个越来越受关注的想法是区域供冷。

So one idea that's gaining some more traction is district cooling.

这基本上是基于一个古老的概念——区域供暖，其历史可以追溯到罗马帝国时期。

And this is basically based on an old idea, district heating, which goes as far back as the Roman Empire.

基本做法是，用某种熔炉或锅炉加热水，然后通过管道把热水输送到周边的其他建筑。

Basically, you have some sort of a furnace or boiler heating water, and then you pump that water through pipes to other buildings around.

所以你是把供暖集中起来，对吧？

So you kind of centralize the heating, right?

那如果我们把制冷也集中起来呢？

Well, what if we also centralize the cooling?

你在一个中心位置建个冷水机组，然后把冷水输送到各个建筑。

And you have a chiller plant in centralized location, and then you're pumping cold water around to different buildings.

这在北美其实很常见。

And this is actually very common in North America.

很多大学和医院，你知道的，它们都有成片的建筑群，在很多情况下已经配备了区域供暖系统，而且很多时候也有区域供冷系统，通过管道输送冷水。

A lot of universities and hospitals you know, that have networks of buildings, they already have district heating in many, many cases, and also in many cases, have district cooling systems where they're pumping the cold water around.

但欧洲只有大约200个区域供冷网络，主要集中在瑞典和法国。

But Europe only has about 200 district cooling networks, mostly in Sweden and France.

所以这是一个巨大的机会，可以用更节能、在某些情况下比空调更便宜的方式来为建筑降温。

So this could be a huge opportunity to cool buildings in a way that's more energy efficient and in some cases cheaper than air conditioning.

所以，你知道，欧洲那五分之一没有空调的人，现在正纠结着要不要装空调呢。

So, you know, we've got the four and five people in Europe who don't have air conditioning are currently trying to figure out whether they should get it.

这样真的会更合理、更高效吗？

Would this actually be more sensible, more efficient?

这其实要看当地的情况，因为安装区域供冷系统非常昂贵。

So it kind of depends on the local context, because it's very expensive to install a district cooling system.

你得把地面挖开，铺设所有这些管道。

You have to essentially dig up the ground and lay all these pipes.

但在有些地方，已经有区域供暖系统了。

But in some places, there are already district heating systems.

伦敦就有区域供暖系统。

In London, there are district heating systems.

巴黎和其他一些城市在某些情况下也已经有区域供暖系统了。

Paris, other cities already have district heating systems in some cases.

如果是那样的话，铺设区域供冷系统的管道就会更容易一些。

And in that case, you could more easily lay pipes for a district cooling system.

这样就能降低安装成本，也就是前期投入高的那部分，然后你就可以开始享受较低的运营成本了。因为区域供冷的好处是，你可以在夜间用电低谷期用电，那时候电价便宜，用来制冷，冷却那些水，有时候甚至能制冰。

So that would reduce that installation cost which is the kind of the high upfront cost and then you could start reaping the benefits of the lower operation cost because what district cooling can do is you can take electricity at night during off peak periods and use the electricity then when it's cheap to produce the cooling, to cool that water, to sometimes even produce ice.

有些区域供冷厂确实会把水冻成冰。

Some district cooling plants actually freeze water into ice.

然后晚上这么做，白天热起来的时候再用。

So do that at night, and then in daytime when the heat rises, that's when you actually use it.

那时候把冷水抽出来用，因为如果白天自己制冷的话，电费会更贵。

You pump out that cold water when the electricity would be more expensive if generating you the cooling then.

所以这样能省不少钱。

So you can save a lot of money that way.

但只在已经有区域供暖网络的地方才适用，这样能降低前期成本。

But it's only good where district heating networks already exist, so you can reduce that upfront cost.

其实还有一项特别酷的技术，可以说是这个技术的下一代，叫做环境回路技术。

And there's actually a really cool technology, which is kind of the next generation, the next step in this technology that's called ambient loop technology.

它基本上就是把区域供暖和区域供冷结合起来。

What it basically is, is a combination of both the district heating and the district cooling.

管道从中央工厂延伸到各个建筑，但里面流的不再是热水或冷水，而是基本上温度接近常温水。

So you have the pipes running around from the centralized plant to the different buildings, but instead of hot or cold water, they're pumping water that's basically neutral, basically air temperature.

然后每栋楼都配有一个热泵。冬天的时候，热泵从水中提取热量来给室内供暖。

And then each building has a heat pump, which takes that water, and then if it's in the wintertime, that heat pump converts that water, takes the heat out of that water, and heats the home with it.

如果是夏天，同样的热泵就用这些水来给室内制冷。

If it's in the summertime, the same heat pump takes that water and, uses it to cool the home.

这比用空气的热泵效率高得多，因为水的温度本来就接近室温。

And it's much more efficient than heat pumps that use air, because the water is already basically at ambient temperature.

不像外面零下十度，你却要用空气把室温提到二十度。

It's not like it's negative 10 degrees outside, and you're bringing that up to 20 degrees in your home with air.

你实际上是拿五度或十度的水，提升到室内的二十度，或者反过来制冷，这样节能多了。

You're actually taking five, ten degree water and bringing that up to 20 degrees in your home, or the opposite of the cooling, much more energy efficient.

因为最近我看到很多关于新楼盘、住宅小区是不是应该标配空调的讨论。

Because there's quite a lot of discussion I've seen at the moment about whether new build developments, housing developments, should all be putting in air con as standard.

但听起来可能这类新技术，以及这种更集中、更有组织的方式，才是正确的方向。

But it sounds like maybe these kind of new technologies and these kind of more centralized, organized things are the way to go.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

但真正在推动这件事的人其实没有。

But no one is really taking charge of this.

我特别希望能看到，说实话。

I would love to see look.

现在的政客们，他们所做的只是应对眼前那些紧急状况，特别是在法国和西班牙。

Politicians at the moment, all they're doing is is, like, reacting to the terrible emergency that they're in, especially in France and Spain.

对吧？

Right?

但显然，现在正是一个机会，大家确实都在热浪中煎熬，这时候就应该提出我们需要推进一个更好的未来规划方案，同时也要朝着净零排放的目标走。

But surely, this is an opportunity now when everyone is, like, undeniably suffering in in heat waves to say we need to take roll out this program of planning better for the future, but also going to net zero.

你也知道，大家还是不敢说这个。

You know, everyone's still afraid of of saying this.

如果现在这个机会都不把握，那还要等到什么时候？

You know, if this isn't an opportunity to do it, what are we waiting for now?

对吧？

Know?

重新推出房屋隔热计划，让那些密封不好的房子更耐热，更好地保持温度，不管是保暖还是降温。

Bring back home insulation schemes to to make leaky homes more resistant, yeah, and hold heat and hold cooling better.

我觉得我们得在每个方面都加倍努力。

Well, think we need to redouble our effort on every front.

我们需要降低电价，增加可再生能源发电，用这些电力来供暖，用热泵替代天然气。

We need to get the price of electricity down, we need to generate more renewable electricity, we need to use that to heat our homes with heat pumps instead of get rid of gas and use heat pumps instead.

我们还需要更快地转向电动汽车。

We need to switch to electric vehicles faster.

这些工作都要加快，但现实是并没有在发生。

We need to accelerate all these efforts, but it's not happening.

看到影响越来越严重，而实际行动却在减少，这真的很让人害怕。

And it's quite frightening seeing that as the impacts ramp up, the action is is going down and it's it's

但现在似乎是个政治安全的好时机，因为无论哪个政党都可以站出来说，这是全球连续第六还是第七年创下历史高温纪录了。

But it seems like it could be a politically safe time to do it because you could stand up from any party and say this is the sixth or seventh year in a row that we've had record breaking temperatures with globally.

这没法否认。

It's undeniable.

所以现在正是采取行动的时候。

Well, this is the time to do something about it.

你看，2024年是英国有记录以来最热的一年。

You know, this is the 2024 in The UK, the warmest year on record.

2025年则是自1884年有记录以来最热的一年。

2025, the hottest since we started recording since 1884.

对。

Yeah.

你知道，政治家们说这话是安全的，你可能会这么想。

You know, it's safe for politicians to say, oh, you'd think so.

对吧？

Right?

其实他们跟公众的想法差远了，因为这段时间以来，调查一直显示，总体来看，大多数人相信气候变化是真实的，并且希望看到行动。

Well, they're so out of step with the public because for a while now, we've had surveys showing that that people, generally speaking, the majority believe climate change is real and they want to see action.

对。

Yeah.

而且我们现在的情况还是这样，净零排放仍然是一个有点吓人的政治话题。

And then we're still in this position where net zero was still this kind of scary political

对，商业也是。

And business

就是大家觉得……对。

is where people yeah.

企业也希望有方向，这必须由政府来提供。

Businesses want that direction as well, and that has to come from government.

你说这无可否认，但……对。

Well, you say it's undeniable, but Yeah.

居然还有人否认这一点，真是不可思议。

There are still people denying it, amazingly enough.

本期节目就到这里。

That's all for this episode.

感谢我们的嘉宾 Alec Luhn 和 Michael Le Page，也谢谢你们的收听。

Thanks to our guests, Alec Luhn and Michael Le Page, and thanks to you for listening.

记得在收听播客的平台上订阅和关注，这样就不会错过哦。

And do subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss out.

再见啦。

Bye for now.