卡姆·约翰逊谈泰瑞斯·哈利伯顿的伤势与2025年NBA总冠军雷霆队

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That's stability you need from the partner you can depend on. Switch now at tmobile.com/bi.

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Plus taxes and fees guarantee exclusions like taxes and fees apply to the exclusive details at tmobile.com.

是什么让全新现代帕里斯帝混动版成为非凡的SUV？是宽敞舒适、足以容纳全家的内饰？还是其越野能力？或许是高达600多英里的续航里程。如果这些优点它都具备，甚至更多呢？那它究竟是什么？

What is it that makes the all new Hyundai Palisade Hybrid an incredible SUV? Is it the spacious interior that's comfy for the whole crew or the capability to go off road? Maybe it's up to 600 plus miles of range. What if it's all of that and more? What is it then?

全新现代帕里斯帝混动版。是方向盘后的驾驶者吗？不。您确定吗？全新现代帕里斯帝混动版。

The all new Hyundai Palisade Hybrid. Is it the driver behind the wheel? No. Are you sure? The all new Hyundai Palisade Hybrid.

远不止是又一款SUV。了解更多详情，请访问hyundaiusa.com或致电(562) 314-4603。

So much more than just another SUV. Visit hyundaiusa.com or call (562) 314-4603 for more details.

欢迎回到《三号年轻人》节目，一如既往由Wondery Media与342 Productions联合呈现。Cam Johnson先生来到现场。总决赛第七场已于周日结束。选秀大会明晚举行。CK兄弟也来到了现场。

Welcome back to the young man in the three as always presented by Wondery Media in three four two productions. Mister Cam Johnson in the building. Finals game seven of the finals was Sunday. The draft is tomorrow night. Boy CK is in the building as well.

向他致敬。向CK致敬。最近怎么样，兄弟？

Shout out to him. Shout out to CK. What's up, dude?

很高兴来到这里。很高兴能上这个播客。

And just happy to be here. Happy to be on the pod.

回到布鲁克林了。

Back in BK.

回到布鲁克林了。

Back in BK.

回到这闷热的地方，107华氏度

Back in sweltering, a 107

我把热浪也带来了。

brought the heat with me.

107华氏度。是我带来的热度。我觉得在开始之前，我们应该说说泰瑞斯，你知道的，我们俩的好朋友。是的。也是节目的一部分。

A 107 degrees. I brought it with me. I think before we start, we should say something about Tyrese, you know, good friend of both of ours. Yeah. Part of the show.

是的。我的意思是，你可以先说说你的想法，你知道，我们俩都有机会和他交流。我们准备去看他，但你可以先谈谈你的感受。

Yeah. I mean, you can start with you know, we both got a chance to speak to him. We're gonna go see him, but you can start with your thoughts.

是的。我首先想到的是，老兄，你的心真的为他碎了。我认为整个联盟的每一位球员都有同感，所有球迷也是——雷霆球迷、步行者球迷、乃至所有NBA球迷，任何目睹那一刻的人，都能感受到他倒地时脸上的痛苦。还有当他意识到发生了什么的那一刻，你可以看到他迅速回头看了一眼，仿佛在说‘不可能’。然后他望向他的父亲约翰，你就能看到那种痛苦。

Yeah. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind, man, is that your heart just breaks for him. And I think that's felt across the league with every player, and I think that's felt across all the fans, Thunder fans, Pacers fans, NBA fans in general, anybody who witnessed it, just the pain on his face when he hits the ground. And kind of that moment where he he realizes what happened, you can see he takes a quick look back and he's like, no way. And pants to his father, John, and you can just see the pain.

这真的太糟了，让人心痛。它让整个场馆的气氛都凝固了。我相信你当时在场，你可以证实这一点。但当时我和CK正在看比赛。

Like, it it really sucks and it hurts. And it took the air out of the building. I'm sure you were there. You can attest to that. But it took, like, me and CK were watching it.

我们本来对比赛充满期待，你知道吧？觉得‘哦，这太棒了’。然后他就倒下了。我们就只是坐在那里，像是‘老兄，什么情况？’

Like, we're hyped for the game. You know? Like, oh, this is great. And then he goes down. We're just, like, sitting there, like, just like, man, what?

所以我祝愿他康复顺利。他会回来的。显然，这些事情需要时间，但他会回归的。他这段表现真的太不可思议了。我的意思是，他带着小腿拉伤上场，还能坚持打一会儿，明白这其中存在风险，但我觉得这对他来说并不重要。

So I wish him the best in his recovery. He'll come back. Obviously, these things take time, but he'll be back. And just an incredible run by him. I mean, he took the court with a calf strain, was able to play through it a little bit, understood there was risk in it, but, I don't think that mattered to him.

我认为赢得NBA总冠军的机会，在主场进行第六场比赛并捍卫胜利，然后去客场争取赢下第七场——我不会替他发言，但我很难想象他对此会有太多遗憾。他付出了全部心血。他打出了季后赛历史上最惊人的末段表现之一，而且他整个赛季都是如此。所以当你把从常规赛到季后赛的整个赛季累积起来，把所有那些关键时刻串联起来，这真的是一段历史性的征程。

I think the opportunity to win an NBA championship, the opportunity to compete in a game six on your home floor and defend it, and then go on the road and try to win a game seven. I mean, I'm not gonna speak for him, but I can't imagine that he has many regrets on the issue. He gave his whole heart. He's had one of the most amazing late game performance stretches and not only postseason history, but, like, he he was doing this all season. So when you take a cumulative season from regular to post, you put together all those clutch type moments, like, it's a historic run.

只是以这种方式结束太遗憾了，但我相信他会以更强的姿态回归。

It just sucks it has to end that way, but I think he'll come back stronger.

关于他这个人的一点是，你知道，我周日之后有机会和他聊了聊，昨天也聊了一会儿。我觉得他昨晚的发文比我们任何人都更好地总结了这一切，但说他'情绪良好'可能不太准确，不过他对这种情况的看法已经非常豁达了。是的，考虑到他所取得的成就以及他做这一切的目的，我认为这给他甚至他的家人、队友等人带来了一种平静的氛围。因为正如你所说，这件事确实令人震惊。

One of the things about him as a person, you know, I I got a chance to talk with him Sunday afterwards and then a little bit yesterday as well. He I think his post last night kind of summed it up better than any of us could, but he's in good spirits is probably the wrong way to describe it, but his perspective on the situation is so great already. Yeah. I think in what he's accomplished and what he was doing this all for that it provides a little bit of a calming presence, I think, to his even to his family and to his teammates and things like that. Because it was to your point, it was shocking.

嗯。你知道，当时在场的人都感受到了。雷霆队的队员们也感受到了。我认为这真的证明了他在篮球之外作为一个人的品质，能够处理这种对不认识他的人来说都很创伤的事情。

Mhmm. You know, you're in there. Everybody felt it. The guys in the Thunder felt it. It is really a I think it's a tribute to him outside of basketball as a person to be able to handle something that's that sort of it's traumatic for people who don't know him.

是的。而且，你知道，他正在亲身经历这一切，却能实时保持那种豁达的视角，我认为这正是他令人印象深刻的地方之一。

Yeah. And, you know, he's living through it, and he's able to just have that perspective in real time, which I think is one of the things that just makes him so impressive.

但在我认识他的这段时间里，这确实是他个性的一部分。他看起来是个韧性很强的人。似乎能够随遇而安，随遇而安，并且不断努力提升，不断努力提升，不断努力提升。

But in in in my time knowing him, that's part of his personality. He seems to be a resilient guy. He seems to just, you know, be able to just roll with what life throws, roll with what life throws, and just try to rise and just try to rise and just try to rise.

我们应该谈谈雷霆队。是的，恭喜他们。他们以84场胜利结束赛季，NBA历史上只有96和97年的乔丹公牛队以及这支雷霆队取得了84胜并夺冠的成就。当你亲身经历这些事情时，有时很难立刻看清其意义，但这确实是一支历史级的伟大球队，以历史级的方式结束了赛季。

We should talk about the Thunder. Yeah. Congrats to them. They they finished with 84 wins, Only the ninety six and ninety seven Jordan Bulls teams and this Thunder team have accomplished four 84 wins and a title in NBA history. When you're living through these things in real time, sometimes it's hard to kinda put perspective on that, but this was an all time great team who finished in an all time great way.

是的。当你回想这支队伍时——我们在季后赛前讨论过，你知道，我们当时没有真正做出预测，但你非常看好他们能有一番作为。所以这个结果，你知道，并不完全出人意料。但他们作为联盟最年轻的球队，真的坚持到底并做到了，这和我们4月10号那天的谈话还是有点不同的。

Yeah. What is your when you're thinking about this group over on you when we did this before the playoffs, you know, we didn't really make predictions, but you were pretty high on them making a run. So this is not this is not exactly a, you know, a shocking outcome. But them actually with the youngest team in the league, them actually getting through and actually doing it is a little bit different than, you know, us having this conversation on April 10.

这正是我正要说的。所以他们真的全程执行并完成了任务，和我们4月10号坐在这里说他们有能力做到是两码事。这是完全不同的两件事。所以要给他们极大的赞誉。提到雷霆队，我首先想到的就是他们的无私精神。

That's exactly what I was about to say. So them actually executing all the way through and finishing the job is a lot different than us sitting here April 10 and saying that they have the ability to do it. It's two completely separate things. So you give them a ton of credit for doing that. The first thing that comes to mind with the Thunder team is just unselfishness.

而且我认为切特在赛后对此发表了评论。但这是一群无论情况如何、无论球权多少都全力以赴的球员。当然，很大功劳要归于普雷西和他组建的团队。但我想切特可能说过他们都是赢家之类的话。他们的球队充满了赢家。

And I think Chet made a comment about it after the game. But it's a bunch of guys who play really hard no matter the circumstance, no matter their touches. And, of course, a lot of credit goes to Pressey and assembling a group. But I think Chet might have said something about how they're all winners. Their team is full of winners.

正如你所说，赢家不会只在顺风时拼命，不会只在球传到手上时努力。他们抓住每一个机会做出贡献。他们就是这样一路闯过整个季后赛的。你知道，他们有核心球员如SGA。

And the winners, like you said, don't just play hard when things are going their way. Don't just play hard when the ball is coming their way. They make every play whenever they can. And that's kinda how they made it through the entire, playoffs. You know, they have main guys at Engine SGA.

他们有杰伦·威廉姆斯作为那种辅助型第二得分手，能给你砍下35分的那种球员，然后其他每个人填补所有空缺。他们有功能互补的拼图球员，有能投篮的家伙。总决赛开始时我就告诉过你，我关注的几个球员是那些替补队员，比如威金斯、卡鲁索、乔。而威金斯在某场比赛里挺身而出产生巨大影响，给他们极大助力。

They have J Dub as that kind of auxiliary secondary can give you 35 kinda guy, and then everybody else fills in every other piece. And they have complementary pieces. They have guys that can shoot the ball. I told you at the beginning of the finals that, like, one a couple of guys that I'm watching for are those bench guys, like a Wiggins, a Caruso, a Joe. And Wiggins comes in and makes a huge impact one game and and and gives them a huge boost.

这些家伙就是能随时上场并发挥作用。有时数据亮眼，有时不然。你看到另一个杰伦·威廉姆斯上场，他可能打得不多，然后突然被派上场。这些人从不垂头丧气，从不抱怨。

Like, those guys are just able to come in and step up. And sometimes the numbers call, sometimes they're not. You saw the other Jalen Williams come in and and, you know, he might not play much, and then he gets thrown in a game. And these guys don't put their heads down. They don't complain.

他们会主动出击，把握自己的时刻。是的。所以这样的球队配得上赢得总冠军，一支就是努力打球、执行力强、防守不懈的球队。你能看出他们从零开始很好地建立了这种文化。

They they, like, attack. They attack their moments. Yeah. And so that's a team that kinda deserves to win a championship, a team like that that just plays hard, executes relentless defensively. And you can tell that that they've done a really good job of building that culture from the ground up.

关于这一点我觉得很有意思。你知道，在这个系列赛中，他们显然在第一场对卡森做了阵容调整。我相信在第四场他们又换了回来，重新使用双塔阵容。但即使他们这样做——当输掉第一场时，达格诺克当时因此受到一些指责——但有趣的是完全没有戏剧性场面。就像是在说‘我们试试这个’。

I I do think it's interesting to that point. You know, they made in this series, they obviously made the lineup switch in game one with Kacen. They flipped it back, I believe, in game four where they went back to the double bigs. But even them doing that, which when they lost game one, you know, Dagnonok got a little bit of heat at the time for for doing it, but I thought it was interesting that there was just no there was no, like, drama around it. It was just like, we're trying this thing.

顺便说一句，尽管他们输掉了第一场，但

And by the way, like, even though they lost game one, like,

以一个压哨绝杀开始，上演了一场戏剧性的大逆转。

started on a buzzer beater on an on a dramatic comeback.

而且首发阵容打得很好。比如，卡森打得很好。并不是说这个阵容行不通，但就像你说的，他们的球员在核心周围是如此地可以互换，以至于感觉就像是，好吧，这将是卡鲁索的表演时间，这将是威金斯的表演时间。

And the starting lineup played well. Like, Kacen played well. It wasn't like it wasn't like it didn't work, but I just to your point, their pieces are so interchangeable around the engines that it did just kind of feel like, okay. This is gonna be the Caruso game. This is gonna be the Wiggins game.

卡鲁索有过几次这样的表现。但是，并没有那种感觉，好像‘好吧，我们偏离了这个计划，这会让我们彻底乱套’，在任何方面都没有这种感觉。

Caruso had a couple of them. But there was but there was no there was no sense of like, okay, we are off of this plan, and it's gonna throw us off our hinges in in in, like, in any way.

是的。我的意思是，这只是他们一致性、他们比赛方式的产物。这是他们逐步建立起来的东西。而且，因为曾经在非常优秀的球队待过，我知道在那样的球队是什么感觉：每场比赛踏上球场，你都觉得你会赢。当你进入季后赛，可能会有很多种不同的结果发生。

Yeah. I mean, it's it's just it's it's a product of their consistency, their approach. It's a thing that's that's been built. And be having been on really good teams, I know what it's like to be on that team that you step on the court every game, you feel like you're gonna win. When you get to the playoffs, there's a lot of just outcomes that can happen.

没错。所以这就需要他们展现出的那一点点额外的稳定性。比如，这并非完美无缺。他们也有几场比赛看起来有点被打懵了。就像第六场，他们被重击了。

Yeah. And so it takes that extra bit of consistency that they showed. Like, it wasn't perfect. They had games where they look like just a little shell shocked. Like that game six, they got punched.

他们去了明尼苏达打…那是第几场？一场第四场？第四场？

They went to Minnesota in a what was that? A a Game four. Four?

杯赛第三场。是的。丹佛那场是第四场。丹佛那场打得很艰难。

Cup three o. Yeah. And The Denver one was four. Denver was rocky.

所以他们并非一路碾压。我的意思是，在整个系列赛中，他们最终取得的战绩确实是很不错的季后赛表现，最终拿下了胜利。但这并非一帆风顺、毫无挣扎。他们只是能够及时做出回应。

So it's not like they just dominated. I mean, throughout the course, there that's a really good playoff record to have what they came away with, you know, to to come away with the the win. But it's not like it wasn't without struggle, without fight. They're just able to respond.

很想和他们探讨这一点。我的看法是，即便回顾这次季后赛征程（除了这轮系列赛），步行者队简直就是打不死的小强。所以我觉得他们赛前就明白这一点，事实也证明这就是支你永远猜不到结局、但绝对难缠的球队。没错。但在对掘金的系列赛中，他们第一场就被戈登的压哨绝杀击败了。

Curious to bring up bring this up with them. My perspective, even looking back on this playoff run outside of this series, which was just like I mean, the Pacers just would not die. So it's like, I think that they knew I think they knew that going in, and it was proven in time that this is just a team that, like, you don't know what's gonna happen except they're gonna be a tough out. Yeah. But in that Denver series to this point, they had the buzzer beater they lost on in game one, the Gordon one.

他们大比分1-2落后，周日还要在丹佛高原打第四场。两队当时投篮手感都糟透了。是替补球员带领他们逆转的——像是威金斯和凯斯这些年轻球员，而那些主力核心反而都有些状态低迷。嗯。

They get down two one, and they're in Denver on, like, a Sunday playing a game four in Denver. And their both teams are shooting horribly. And those and it was the bench guys that brought them back. It was like Wiggins and Case and Case and it was like all of their young all of their kind of guys that had got them there were all a little bit off. Mhmm.

替补球员基本上算是为他们赢得了那场比赛。虽然系列赛最终还是打到了抢七，但冠军征程就是这样——哪怕你常规赛75胜，在丹佛高原的季后赛中仍可能1-2落后。明白吗？所以你依然需要...

And the bench guys came in and basically won them that game. The the series obviously still went seven, but that was like in championship runs, no matter you could have 75 wins. You still might be down two one in a seer in a playoff series in Denver with the altitude. You know? So you still need that

在核心球员发挥不佳的情况下赢球。

With your stars not playing.

没错。所以如果要对他们的晋级之路进行技术分析，这不仅仅是谢伊每晚砍38分、杜布每晚25分、其他人只管防守这么简单。

Yeah. And so that was a it it it did feel like it was a if you were to do sort of a forensic analysis on how they got there, this was not just, like, Shea scoring 38 a night, Dub having 25 a night, everyone else just playing defense.

虽然通常冠军球队都是这样赢球的，对吧？但我觉得这也是步行者本届季后赛的超能力——他们拥有全方位能站出来的球员，在关键时刻总能逆转对手。

Which is usually kinda how it happens. Right? But I think that's also the superpower of the Pacers in this playoffs. The fact that they have guys across the board that can step up. In crunch time, they're coming back on teams.

这些球队不是每次都由泰瑞投篮，也不是每次都由帕斯卡尔投篮。可能是内史密斯手感火热，也可能是内姆哈德手感火热。没错。

These teams it's not Tyree shooting ball every time. It's not Pascal shooting the ball every time. You might have Neesmith get hot. You might have Neimhard get hot. Yeah.

TJ可能会，你知道的，打出一波小高潮。步行者队能够依靠奥比。奥比。他们能从很多角度打击你，就像通常在季后赛中，你面对一支球队。当比赛进入关键时刻，你会把球交给明星球员手里，这就是你的职责。

TJ might might, you know, get on a little run. The Pacers were able to to Obi. Obi. They're they're able to kinda get you at a lot of angles, which just like, usually in the playoffs, you go up against the team. When it gets to you know, when when the rubber meets the road, you put the ball in the star player's hands, it's just like, it's your job.

这就是你的工作。就像尼克斯队交给布伦森那样。明白吗？他们把球交到他手里。这就是你的工作。

It's your job. Like, New York with Brunson. You know? They put the ball in his hands. It's your job.

这很正常，非常正常。但他完全颠覆了这一点，就像是说：不。如果你有空位，就投篮。我们要打快节奏，创造最佳投篮机会，即使第四节落后15分也要坚持不懈。

And that's just that's normal. That's very normal. He just kinda flipped that on its head and just like, no. Like, if you're open, shoot the ball. We're gonna play fast, generate the best shot, and just kinda be relentless even if we're down 15 in the fourth.

从球队建设角度来看，你认为雷霆队的建队方式非常独特。当然要向普雷斯顿和整个组织致敬。但步行者队可能是一个更好的参照，展示了球队未来建设的模式。他们会关注这一点，并优先考虑深度建设和这些可互换的拼图，而不是执着于我们需要——我认为我们都知道三巨头时代已经过去，那种拥有三个超级巨星和八个底薪球员的模式已经消失了。但总的来说，我们需要保持灵活性以应对任何挑战。

Do you think that teams from a team building perspective, Thunder had a very unique way that they were built. Obviously, shout out to Preston and that whole organization. But Indy's probably a better comp of, like, how teams are gonna look at sort of building for the future. They're gonna look at that, and they're going to sort of prioritize building with depths and building with these sort of interchangeable pieces rather than being like, we need to have I think the I think we know the era of the big three and having just, like, three superstars and and eight minimum guys has has gone away. But even just in general being like, we need to have the flexibility to withstand whatever is thrown at us.

至于步行者队，我本来想问你，你能想起有哪支球队甚至在抢七大战中半场领先吗？是的。当时场馆里有人四处张望，心想：哦，我们不知道结果会如何，也不知道谁会击败我们。嗯。你知道，TJ在第三节打疯了。

And the Pacers, I mean, I was gonna ask you about, like, can you remember a team that was like even in game seven, they were up at halftime. Yeah. There's a there are people who are looking around the arena being like, oh, we don't know how this is gonna go down, and we also don't know who's who's gonna beat us. Mhmm. You know, TJ TJ's going crazy in the third quarter.

TJ在第五场的第三节也打疯了，尽管那场比赛他们没赢。很难想起有哪支球队能一直如此坚韧。大家都会谈论那些疯狂的反击。我们讨论过，比如最后40秒落后9分之类的情况。但即使是在输掉的比赛中，他们也从不放弃。

TJ went crazy in the third quarter in game five as well even though they didn't win the game. It's it's hard to remember a team that was as just resilient all the time. Like, everyone will talk about the crazy comebacks. We've talked about it, you know, the down nine and forty seconds and everything like that. But even in the games, they lost.

他们就是死不了。他们永远不会死。

They just did not die. They would never die.

是啊。非常有韧性。

Yeah. Very scrappy.

我在想这是否会成为——我的意思是，显然每支球队都希望有韧性。但从建队角度来看，是否会有这样一种感觉：如果我们不能在总决赛第六场的第四节信任九到十名球员，那不管我们的球星是谁都没用。是的，就像我们根本没机会赢。你懂吗？

And I'm and I'm wondering if that is going to be I mean, obviously, every team would love to be scrappy. But if from a team building perspective, there's going to be a sense of like, oh, we need if we are not running nine, ten deep with guys we trust in the fourth quarter of a game six in the finals, it doesn't matter who our stars are. Yeah. Like, we are we we have no shot. You know?

我有点好奇他们是否会——其他球队是否会更多地效仿这种模式。

And I'm kinda curious if they're if they're gonna follow teams are gonna follow that model more.

不过具体是什么模式呢？当你观察步行者队时，如果你是其他球队的总经理，你会尝试效仿这种模式的哪些标志性特点？

The model of what, though? When when you look at the Pacers, if you're the GM of another team, what what is the what is the markers of that model that you try to follow?

嗯，就步行者队而言，我认为——当然必须充分肯定卡莱尔、珍妮和所有助理教练的功劳。整个教练团队都非常出色，是联盟中最顶尖的之一。但他们的体系非常明确：轮换安排非常明确，球员角色非常明确。

Well, I would say with the Pacers specifically and some of this, you have to obviously give a lot of credit to Carlisle, Jenny, to all the assistants. All the the whole coaching staff there is amazing. It's, you know, one of the best in the league, but they're so defined. The rotations are so defined. Their roles are so defined.

他们的进攻体系非常明确。今年他们的防守进步巨大——这非常重要——正是他们实现飞跃的关键原因。但关键点在于：泰瑞斯（哈利伯顿）、西亚卡姆，这些球员拥有惊人的个人天赋，因此他们随时都有接管比赛的能力。

The way they run their offense is so defined. They got way better at defense this year, which was a big reason why Huge. They made this jump. But there was a point where you're like, Tyrese, Tyrese, Siakam, these guys are unbelievable individual talents. So they have the ability to take over at any point because of that.

但替补席的贡献下降有限，因为每个人都明确知道自己的角色，这种方式并不依赖于‘我们有明星球员，然后第六人带领第二阵容，两者都必须发挥出色否则我们就麻烦了’。是的，完全没有。我认为谈论这么多不同球员站出来，体现的是一种感觉——我觉得即使他们缺少更多球员，结果可能还是一样。

But there was limited drop off with the bench consistently because everybody knew what they everyone knew their role so definitively in a way that was not reliant on, okay, we have our star, and then we have our sixth man who's running the second unit, and we need both of them to be on or we're gonna be in trouble. Yeah. There was just no I think that what talking about about having all these different guys step up is just the just the sense of, I think they, you know, they they could've been down more pieces, and the the result might've been the same.

是的。我认为这两支总决赛球队都有一个共同点，就是都具备无私的特质。你看看这些比赛结束后的数据统计，步行者队可能先发阵容得分是15、10、7、8、14，而替补席则是10、8、18、14，然后转眼间总分就达到了115分。

Yeah. I think one thing about both these finals teams is that there's an element of unselfishness on both of them. You You look at the box scores at the end of these games, and the Pacers, like, you might see their starting lineup at, like, fifteen, ten, seven, eight, fourteen. And then the bench, ten, eight, eighteen, fourteen. And next scene, it's like it's the 115 points.

我们甚至还没提到马瑟林。他几乎凭一己之力为他们赢下了一场比赛。没错，替补出场以75%的命中率砍下27分。这样的表现就能赢球。

You we didn't even mention Mathurin. He basically won them a game by himself. Yep. 27 points on 75 from the field off the bench. Like, that wins games.

所以我观察这支步行者队，看到多个主要控球手，多个这样的球员——如果你想派人紧逼加速他们，如果你想全场紧逼泰瑞斯·哈利伯顿，让他转身、再转身、再转身，消耗他体力，那也没问题。把球给内姆哈德，让他带球过半场，腾出一些空间。所以有了TJ、内姆哈德、泰瑞斯这样的多个控球手，你就能解放空间。

And so I look at that Pacers team. I see multiple primary ball handlers, multiple guys that, like, if you wanna put somebody on them to speed them up, if you wanted to press Tyrese Halliburton full court, make him turn, make him turn, make him turn, tire him out, that's okay. Give the ball to Nehmhard, let him bring it up. Free up some space. So with that kind of multiple ball handlers, TJ, Nehmhard, Tyrese, you're freeing up space.

你还有帕斯卡尔这样的球员，他显然天赋异禀，但不是那种每个回合都要球的那种人。他不像‘我是球队超级巨星，把球给我’。他更像一个能融入体系、发挥极高水平的球员。然后你再配上迈尔斯·特纳这样的护筐者，他还能拉出来投三分。

You have Pascal, who's like one of those guys that like, obviously, a super talented player, but it's not a give me the ball every possession kind of guy. He's not like, I'm I'm the superstar of the team. Give me the ball. Like, he functions as a just super high level guy that can fit in that system. And then you complement it with a rim protector like Miles Turner, who can step out and shoot the three.

然后你把所有这些拼图组合在一起。比如奥比，明白我的意思吗？你可以打造小个阵容，也可以派出更大个的阵容，这样就能让对手始终保持警惕。所以如果我作为总经理看这支球队，我看重的就是那种无私、多个控球手，以及你所说的阵容灵活性带来的信任。

And then you form all these pieces together. Obi. Know what I mean? You can create lineups where they're going small, where they're going with a bigger lineup, and then they're able to keep you on your toes a little bit. So if I'm a GM looking at that team, it's that unselfishness, multiple ball handlers, and then flexibility in the lineups that you can put out with trust that you said.

嗯，关于深度还有另一点，我们应该提到防守，就是他们在防守端真正能实施紧逼，同时在进攻端施加压力的能力，这是我特别注意到的，尤其是在第四场，尽管雷霆后来逆转获胜，但这真的体现了谢伊的伟大，因为谢伊当时已经筋疲力尽了。是的，他双手叉着腰。是的，他从未经历过像这样对手如此紧逼他的系列赛。

Well, the other thing to the to this depth piece, and we should mention with the the defense, is their ability defensively to just both legitimately press and then also put pressure on you offensively, I think, was a thing that I noticed that at game four in particular, even though the Thunder came back and won, and this is, like, just a tribute to Shea and his greatness because Shea was gassed. Yeah. Like, his hands were on his hips. Yeah. He had never he had never been in a series like this where these guys were, like, up in his shit as much as this.

是的。对他犯规了。没错。

Yeah. Foul on him. Yeah.

手上动作多。而且很凶。每次进攻都对他上手。

Handsy. And then hard. Hands on him every possession.

他和那是...这真的很有意思，因为这是一个...这再次说明了，就像，冠军就是这样打造出来的。是的。就是这样做的。如果那场比赛没赢，系列赛就结束了。

He and that's and that was it was really interesting because it was a and this is, you know, again, to this point about, like, this is where the the champion is built Yeah. Is doing it. If don't win that game, the series is over.

是的。完全正确。

Yeah. Exactly.

你知道，如果他在第四节没做到那些，系列赛就结束了。所以这不是一个...这不是一个系列赛的，好吧。你知道，一边倒赢下第一场，另一边倒赢下第二场，大胜。这个系列赛更像是，双方都有一些必须彻底扭转局面才能扳回来的关键时刻。

You know, if he doesn't do that in the fourth quarter, series is over. And so that is a that it was not a this it was not a series of, alright. You know, blow out game one, blow out game two on the other side, blow out. Like, this was a it was they were very much these sort of windows where both teams had to kind of flip the thing on its head to to bring it back around.

这个系列赛我看到的另一个很酷的点是，雷霆防守确实很好，但他们很激进而且会犯规。他们用聪明的方式犯规。他们用的方式让你没法吹停比赛，但他们打的是一种身体对抗性极强的防守。这就是他们的风格。他们一直以来都是这么做的。

Another cool thing from the series that I saw, the Thunder are really good defensively, but they're aggressive and they foul. They do it in smart ways. They do it in ways that you can't call a game, but they play a highly physical defensive game. It's what they do. It's what they've been doing.

而裁判在整个季后赛都允许他们这么做，第七场，不断对抗约基奇，对抗约基奇，对抗约基奇。那是他们的策略，而且他们非常擅长。步行者这边，我没听到什么抱怨。就像，是的，我看着比赛呢。我没觉得，哦天哪，这太过分了。

And refs have been letting them do that all playoffs, game seven, beating up on Jokic, beating up on Jokic, beating up on Jokic. That was their formula, and they were really good at it. The Pacers, I didn't hear complaints. Like, yeah, I'm not I'm watching the game. I don't see, like, oh my gosh.

他们是在犯规。他们是在犯规。我看到的是他们在说，好吧，赌一把。我们要把同样的身体对抗强度带到场上。

They're they're fouling. They're fouling. What I saw was them saying, okay. Bet. We're gonna bring that same physicality to the table.

我们要用同样的方式施压。我们要给JW施加那么大压力。我们要冲击这些人。我们要我们要深入他们防线。我们要对他们犯规。

We're gonna garnish the same way. We're gonna put that much pressure on JW. We're gonna hit these guys. We're gonna we're gonna get in them. We're gonna foul them.

我们要上手。所以有时候这导致双方都获得了很多罚球。但步行者队某种程度上迎难而上，应对雷霆队带来的身体对抗强度并与之匹配，我认为这是系列赛中相当令人印象深刻的部分，也是为什么比赛如此精彩并打到第七场的原因之一。

We're gonna hands. And and so sometimes it resulted in in in a lot of free throws on both sides. But the Pacers kinda stepping up to the challenge of that physicality that the Thunder brought to the table and matching it, I thought that was a pretty impressive part of the series and part of the reason why it was so entertaining and went seven.

我们作为一个节目，但可能尤其是你，并不是我要说领先潮流，因为自从他在费城时大家就都知道这一点。但我们从十二月开始就在这个节目上大力吹捧TJ了，我想是从我们开始讨论高中时期的TJ开始。

We as a show, but probably you in particular, were I'm not gonna say ahead of the curve because everyone has known this since he was in Philly. But we've been gassing TJ on this show really since December, I think, since we started talking about high school TJ.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我认为现在全世界都差不多知道了。是的。而且有一段时间——我提到了第五场和第七场——你会觉得，这家伙是场上最好的球员吗？

And I think that now the whole world kinda knows it. Yeah. And there was a there was a period I mentioned game five, game seven, where you're like, is this guy the best guy on the court?

这家伙接管了这家伙

This guy taking this guy

接管比赛

taking over right

现在。这不仅仅是，哦，看起来很有趣。他不只是

now. Like, it's not just like, oh, It's funny to watch. It's not like he's just

投进几个空位三分。

hitting a couple open threes.

就好像人们甚至没有意识到，大家都在问，这家伙是谁？他从哪儿冒出来的？

It's like people didn't even real like, people are like, who is this guy? Like, where'd he come from?

就像是

It's like

他并不是突然改变打法，他一直都是这么打的。他在步行者时期、76人时期都是这样打球的。拼抢、抢断、命中中距离、冲击内线，你知道的，搅乱局势。

he hasn't been doing like, he's playing the same way he's always played. He's playing the same way he's played when he's in his Pacers tenure, in his seventy six's tenure, that's how he plays. Scrap it. He's gonna get steals. He's gonna hit that little midi, get to the paint, you know, shake things up.

我只是想向我们匹兹堡的兄弟们表达爱意，伙计。我的匹兹堡兄弟们。

I just like showing love to the Pittsburgh guys, man. My Pittsburgh guys.

这对这座城市来说是个很好的展示。

It's good showing for the city.

我在说TJ。有我和TJ，还有一些年轻时可能离开这座城市的年轻球员，但我们仍然想认领他们。但我真的很喜欢他为这座城市增光添彩，兄弟。我们正努力提升匹兹堡的篮球文化，向那里的孩子们展示他们也能打进NBA。而他就是一个绝佳的例子。

I'm talking about TJ. There's me and TJ, and we got some young guys that kinda maybe left the city when they were young, but we're still trying to claim them. But I I just love that he's he's putting on for the city, man. We're trying to get Pittsburgh's basketball culture up, show kids back there that that they can make it to the NBA. And he's a he's a prime example of that.

所以我为他感到高兴。他应该昂首挺胸。他在总决赛中贡献巨大，在一支冲击总决赛的季后赛球队中扮演了重要角色。我绝对为他感到骄傲，也非常感谢他为这座城市争光。

So I'm happy for him. He should keep his head held high. Huge contributor in the finals. Huge contributor on a on a playoff team, making a finals push. I'm definitely proud of him, and I I really appreciate him putting on for the city.

那么有几笔交易发生了。

So a couple trades that happened.

2018年节礼日，20岁的乔伊·摩根最后一次被人看见是在她的教堂——以色列基督联合教会（IUIC）。我刚上Snapchat就看到她的脸被到处张贴。这就是那位失踪的姐妹，一个被她最信任的人背叛的女性的真实故事。IUIC是我的家人，就像我拥有过的最好的家庭。但IUIC不像大多数教堂。

On Boxing Day twenty eighteen, 20 year old Joy Morgan was last seen at her church, Israel United in Christ or IUIC. I just went on my Snapchat and I just see her face plastered everywhere. This is the missing sister, the true story of a woman betrayed by those she trusted most. IUIC is my family and, like, the best family that I've ever had. But IUIC isn't like most churches.

这是一个邪恶的邪教。

This is a devilish cult.

你知道当你产生那种感觉，就是我不想待在这里。我想离开。就像那种感觉，比如我想出去逛逛。

You know when you get that feeling where you just I don't wanna be here. I I wanna get out. It's like that feeling of, like, I wanna go hang out.

我是查理·布伦特科斯·卡夫，经过多年调查乔伊的案件，我需要知道乔伊的真相。立即在Wondery Plus上独家无广告地收听《失踪的妹妹》全集。在Spotify、Apple Podcasts或Wondery应用中开始您的Wondery Plus免费试用。

I'm Charlie Brentkos Cuff, and after years of investigating Joy's case, I need to know what really happened to Joy. Binge all episodes of The Missing Sister exclusively and ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Start your free trial of Wondery Plus on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the Wondery app.

毁灭一颗星球有多难？也许只需要一点钻探、一些采矿，以及大量碳排放到大气中。当你看到剩下的景象时，它开始像一个犯罪现场。

How hard is it to kill a planet? Maybe all it takes is a little drilling, some mining, and a whole lot of carbon pumped into the atmosphere. When you see what's left, it starts to look like a crime scene.

我们真的安全吗？我们的水安全吗？你们毁掉了我们的自来水。

Are we really safe? Is our water safe? You destroyed our tap.

而这样的罪行，并非偶然发生。

And crimes like that, they don't just happen.

我们称事情为意外。没有意外。这完全是100%可预防的。

We call things accidents. There is no accident. This was 100% preventable.

它们是人们选择的结果。无情的石油大亨、腐败的政客，甚至是有组织犯罪。这些是我们需要讲述的关于我们变化中星球的故事。关于诈骗、谋杀和掩盖的叙事，关乎我们以及我们为保护地球或摧毁它所做的一切。在Wondery应用或您获取播客的任何地方关注《无法无天的星球》。

They're the result of choices by people. Ruthless oil tycoons, corrupt politicians, even organized crime. These are the stories we need to be telling about our changing planet. Stories of scams, murders, and cover ups that are about us and the things we're doing to either protect the earth or destroy it. Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

您现在就可以通过加入Wondery Plus，在Wondery应用、Apple Podcasts或Spotify上提前无广告收听《无法无天的星球》新剧集。

You can listen to new episodes of Lawless Planet early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

一笔交易发生在昨晚深夜，另一笔在今天早上。波士顿、波特兰用安东尼·西蒙斯和两个次轮签换来了霍乐迪，然后是纽奥良和华盛顿。今天，CJ和凯利·奥列尼克换来了乔丹·普尔，以及第四十顺位选秀权。你对这两笔交易有什么看法吗？

One happened late last night. One happened this morning. Boston, Portland drew holiday for Anthony Simons and two second rounders, and then New Orleans, Washington. Today, CJ and Kelli Olenek for Jordan Poole, Siddiquet Bay in the fortieth pick. Do you have any thoughts on either of those?

我在想开拓者的节奏——我的意思是，他们的策略是什么。我觉得波士顿的这笔操作给了他们更多灵活性。安特的合同即将到期，但他天赋异禀，是个得分手。对吧？所以虽然失去了塔图姆，但用安特增强了得分火力，还增加了一些灵活性。

I'm wondering what the pace I mean, what the pace what the Trailblazers are doing. I think Boston did it in a move where it gives them more flexibility. Ant is expiring, but also incredibly talented and a scorer. Know? So you lose Tatum, but you're adding that scoring punch with Ant and putting a little flexibility.

因为他们目前的阵容薪资极高。波士顿，波士顿啊。所以他们必须发挥创意，既要保持今年的竞争力——冠军级别的竞争力，又不能从老板和管理层的角度把自己埋在账本里。你懂吧？

Because where they stand right now, that roster is extremely expensive. Boston. Boston. And so they have to be creative in trying to stay competitive this year, like championship competitive, but not just burying themselves in the books from ownership front office perspective. You know?

所以我理解他们的这个操作。我在想波特兰会怎么做。他们会留下德鲁吗？我觉得他们……我以为这可能是他们承诺培养年轻球员的信号，比如斯库特、谢登、阿夫迪亚这些年轻人。所以我不太确定。

So I I I see that move on their behalf. I'm wondering what Portland's gonna do. Are they gonna keep Drew? I think they they they I thought this might be a move where they're committing to their youth with Scoop, Shaden, Avdia, guys like that. So I'm not sure.

我希望他们能留下他，希望他们别再像上次那样交易来他又把他送走。

I hope they keep hope they don't trade for him again and then move him again like they did.

上次是两年前。就好像，他们已经干过一次这种事了。

Last time. Two years ago. It's like, they already did it once.

说到波士顿这边，我们俩总体上都很看好他。他三分命中率36%，场均出手8次。而且那只是

On the Boston front, we're both really high on in general. He was 36% from three on eight attempts. And that was a

降低 降低 年份 形式。

lower lower year form.

他可以 但他们也出去了

He can But also they get out

40个。

of 40.

但那些家伙也没有太多空间。嗯。当你看看波士顿整年谈论的方式，他们为这些家伙拉开空间的方式，以及他们投出这些三分的方式，就像，你可以看到如果他假设他留下，你可以看到他实现巨大的进攻飞跃，仅仅因为那样的阵容。是的。在这个体系中，他一直感觉像是那种进攻端一切条件都具备的人，只是需要处在一个更能让他发挥的情境中。

But also those guys did not have a lot of spacing. Mhmm. When you look at the way that Boston talking about all year, the way that they are are spaced out for these guys and the way they get these threes up, like, you could see if he assuming he stays, you could see him taking, like, a huge offensive jump just with that personnel. Yeah. And in the system, he always felt like one of those guys that, like, offensively, everything is there for him to do this, and he needed to be in a situation that was sort of, like, more set up for him to actually have the ability to go do that.

我不认为那是波特兰。我认为波特兰的问题，从他们的角度来看是，他们现在确实有很多非常好的防守者。嗯。就像，假设德鲁留下，他们会很难缠。他们会是难啃的骨头。

And I don't think that that was Portland. I think the question with Portland, I mean, to look at it from their perspective is, like, the one thing they do have a lot of right now is a lot of really good defenders. Mhmm. Like, they are they're gonna be a pain in the ass assuming Drew stays. They're gonna be a pain in the ass to play against.

得分可能是个问题，但是，你知道，他，艾顿，丹尼，他们有很多能锁死对手的家伙。

The scoring might be a question, but it's like, you know, him, Ayton, like, Denny, like, they just have a lot of guys that lock up.

是的。他们确实有。但让我们从德鲁·霍勒迪的角度来谈谈这个。第一，你必须为他的成就给予高度赞扬，尤其是在他职业生涯的后半段，去到密尔沃基夺冠，去到波士顿又夺冠，而且，是的，密尔沃基夺冠后不久被交易，波士顿夺冠后不久又被交易。但他在那两支球队留下的印记。

Yeah. They do. But let's talk about this from Drew Holiday's perspective. One, you gotta give him a ton of credit for what he's been able to accomplish, especially on this like, it's it's the back half of his career where he goes to Milwaukee championship, goes to Boston championship, and, yeah, shortly after the Milwaukee championship trade, shortly after the Boston championship traded. But his mark on those two franchises.

美国队，金牌。没错。美国队，又一块金牌。

Team USA, gold medal. Exactly. Team USA, another gold medal.

但他能带来，他为任何效力的球队都带来高水平的赢球文化。所以我觉得他们会留下他，并尝试让他培养年轻球员？他对这个感兴趣吗？他还想要更多争冠机会吗？他会要求交易吗？

But he can like, he brings a high level of winning to any team he's on. So I do they keep him and just try to get him to bring up the young guys? Is he interested in that? Does he want more championship runs? Is he gonna ask for a trade?

这些就是我在问的问题。

That's that's the questions I'm asking.

我会的。我这不是基于任何内部消息，但我认为他想要去西海岸。

I would. I don't this is not based off any inside information, but I I think he wanted to be on the West Coast.

好吧。

Okay.

我的意思是，这算是某种内部消息吧，但他确实想去西海岸。我认为他和波士顿的人关系非常好。大家都知道他们必须对阵容做些调整，尤其是当杰森受伤之后。是的。不像密尔沃基，不像利拉德的交易，我觉得没人对此感到震惊。

I mean, that is, like, kind of inside information, but he wanted to be on the West Coast. I think that he he had such a good relationship with the people in Boston. Everyone knew they were gonna have to do something with this roster, especially when Jason got hurt. Yeah. That no one is unlike the Milwaukee unlike the Dame trade, I don't think anyone is shocked by this.

而且我认为关于不同目的地有过多次讨论。是的。我猜测他在这件事上比上次有更多发言权。我也在想，对于像他这样取得过所有成功的球员来说，是否有一个合适的...虽然不太应该比较这两人，因为他们是非常不同的球员，但有点像CP3去所有这些年轻球队时的情形。比如，他去年在圣安东尼奥并不认为能赢得冠军，但他给那支球队留下了真正的印记。他在雷霆待的那一年也给球队留下了深刻影响。

And I think that there was multiple conversations about different destinations. Yeah. And I would I would assume that he had more say in this than he did than he did last And I would and I do wonder, you know, with somebody like him where he has had all of this success, if there is a nice and it's a little bit not to compare the two because they're very different players, but a little bit like with CP when he goes to all these different young teams. Like, he was he didn't think was winning a championship in San Antonio last year, but he leaves a real imprint on that team. He left a real imprint on OKC when he was there for a year.

而且可能确实有某种吸引力，处于那种情况下，允许自己扮演导师的角色。是的，这样比单纯想着去追逐冠军戒指要好。因为按照目前联盟的格局，并没有一个争冠球队能直接把他纳入阵容。

And there's there may be something that's appealing about being in that kind of situation and allowing to be allowing yourself to be like a mentor Yeah. Like that rather than just being like, I need to go and hunt, you know, rings. Because the way the with the way the apron is set up, there's not a it's not like there's a title contender that could just, like, slot him in.

确实不容易。但如果有机会的话...是的。如果...如果有争冠球队或季后赛队伍能签下他，他就是一个非常稳固的拼图。他能提升球队的赢球能力。所以我很期待看看这里会发生什么。

Not easily. But if you could Yeah. If if we if they if if a if a title or a team on the brain could add him, he's a piece that is just so solid. He elevates your team's ability to win. So I'm interested to see what happens here.

你对今天那笔交易怎么看？

What'd you think about the one today?

DZ1？普尔和...这很有意思，老兄。我正在试图弄清楚新奥尔良队...他们到底想做什么。但我不是很确定。可能这也不是我需要知道或关心的事，但你知道，这交易的是类型相似的球员。

The DZ1? Pool and and It's interesting, man. I'm I'm trying to figure out what New Orleans what they're trying to do. And I'm not really sure. It's probably not really for me to know or care about, but, you know, it's it's similar guys you're trading.

只是一个年龄稍大一些，而且...但他们都是很有创造力的得分型小个子后卫。

It's just one's a little older and and but they're very, you know, creative scoring smaller guards.

我不认为这是新奥尔良的最后一步操作。但这确实让人觉得，假设他们保留锡安，就是要尽可能用射手包围他。

I don't think this is gonna be their last move, New Orleans. But it does feel like assuming you're keeping Zion, it's just like surround him with as much shooting as possible.

但我的意思是，CJ也能投篮，所以这并不像...

But I mean, CJ can shoot too, so it's not like

是的。但时间线不同。时间线非常不一样。

Yeah. But it's but the timeline's different. Timelines are very different.

时间线不同了。所以转向华盛顿队。现在他们更成熟了。

Timeline's different. So then pivot to Washington. Now they're older.

我觉得华盛顿队只是在试图，我认为他们只是想尽可能多地腾出薪资空间。我在想，那么他们会怎么做？我在想，像华盛顿这样的球队，他们是否会考虑，因为我非常看好。我们和比拉尔做过一期节目。明年我们可能会和其他一些球员再做几期。

I think Washington is just trying I think they're just trying to get as much cap space as possible. I wonder with So then what do they do? I wonder with somebody like I wonder with a team like Washington, if they look at because I'm really high. We did an episode with Bilal. We'll probably do some more with some of those other guys next year.

他们有很多非常优秀的年轻球员，在交易截止日前做了一个明智的计算，基本上就是，我们不需要处于中间状态。看看俄克拉荷马城发生了什么。让我们把这些我们非常看重的球员，即使在这些时间里没有赢球但也很有产出力的球员，给他们真正的上场时间。甚至在那里的老将，像米德尔顿、马库斯·斯玛特这样的人，他们也不是进攻的焦点。这是比拉尔的球队。

They got a lot of really good young players, and they made this a smart calculation at the deadline of basically being like, we don't need to be in between. Like, let's look at what happened in OKC. Let's take these guys who we value highly, who are, like, you know, productive even if they're not winning in these minutes, and let's get them real run. Let's not have so even the veterans that are there, the Middletons and the Marcus Smarts and guys like that, they're not the focal points of the offense. Like, this is, like, Bilal's team.

这是巴布的球队。CJ，情况也会一样，基本上就是，我不知道CJ会发生什么。但是

This is Bub's team. CJ, it's gonna be the same way where you're gonna basically like, I don't know what's gonna happen with CJ. But

你觉得他会留下吗？

You think he stays?

嗯，他今年结束后合同就到期了。对吧？

Well, he's up after this year. Right?

你觉得呢？

Do you think?

就像，所以我认为他可能会留一年，然后或者在截止日期时，好吧。在那个大但但不管怎样，我只是觉得他们并没有把25、26年看作是，哦，我们今年需要争取四号种子。而是，我们需要让这些家伙准备好，我们需要拥有最大的灵活性。我还有一个问题，我认为，对你来说，你们在某种程度上也参与其中，但这只是一个有趣而不幸的现象，关于伤病的事情是，东部就像，我的意思是，东部是一个

Like, that's the so I think he probably stays for a year and then or maybe at the deadline at Okay. At that big but I but either way, I just think they're not looking at '25, 26 as like, oh, we need to shoot for a four seed this year. It's like, we need to get these guys ready, and we need to have maximum maximum flexibility. The other question I have, I think, for you and you, you know, you guys are a part of this to a certain extent, but it's just an interesting it's an unfortunate, but it's an interesting phenomenon with the injury stuff is the East is like I mean, the East is a

打开了。

Opened up.

是的。我们没谈。我们上周和Des Spain做了一期节目。我们还没讨论那个。他们会很出色，但感觉东部现在是时候在东部采取行动了，因为联盟中可能最好的三支球队中的两支，将会缺席他们最好的球员大部分时间，甚至全年，这很糟糕，但也是现实的处境。

Yeah. We didn't talk. We did an episode with Des with Des Spain last week. We haven't talked about that. They're gonna be really good, but it just feels like the East is a this is the time to make a move in the East because you have two of probably the, you know, three best teams in the conference are gonna be missing their best players for most of the year, if not the whole year, which is a sucks, but is also a it's the reality of the situations.

就像，那些家伙是不可替代的。

Like, those guys are not replaceable.

对。

Right.

所以这并不意味着那些球队会进入季后赛，但他们不会那么强。

So it doesn't mean those teams will make the playoffs, but they're not gonna be as good.

就连利拉德也是，老兄。这影响太大了。

Even Dame, man. That's huge.

是啊。还有利拉德。没错。我的意思是，那又是另一个——

Yeah. And Dame. Yeah. I mean, that's another that's

三巨头之一

a Three

三巨头中的三位

Three of three

东部联盟前四或五支争冠队伍中的前三支，是的。那些正在争夺冠军的球队下赛季都遭受了重大打击。

Eastern Conference top three of the top four or five contenders Yeah. That are fighting for it have taken significant blows for next season.

我认为这确实可能改变了局势，比如在奥兰多，感觉像是我们需要现在就行动。是的。直接全力以赴。再回到季后赛的话题一下。没错。

I think that that does it does probably change the dynamic of, like, in Orlando of, like, we need to Do it now. Yeah. Just go for it. Back to the playoffs for a second. Yeah.

最大的宏观收获，不仅仅是总决赛，而是整体上，关于所有成功球队中什么最突出？

Biggest macro takeaway, not just from the finals, but overall, about about what what stood out from all the teams that had success?

我之前提到过，但我认为所有真正成功的球队，第一，都能够应对逆境，这是最基本的要求。在整个季后赛征程中会遇到大量困难。但关键在于他们的应对方式，而且我认为这是全方位的。意味着能够真正依靠一到八号、甚至一到九号球员在不同时刻完成任务。我觉得你说到了一个很好的点，就是关于三巨头时代之类的。

I mentioned this before, but I think all the teams that really had success, one, were able to respond to adversity, which is baseline minimum. There's going to be tons of it throughout a playoff run. But it's kind of the ways in which they did it, and it's coming from across the board is what I'd say. It's being able to truly rely on one through eight, one through nine to get the job done in many different moments. I think you made a good point where you're looking at, like, the era of big threes and stuff.

这这这看起来太不稳定了。这这看起来太，你知道，太脆弱了。

It it's it just seems too volatile. It it seems too you know, you're vulnerable.

在我看来这似乎已经完全过时了。

Seems like it seems fully done to me.

是的。这看起来不再像是获胜的配方了。所以我认为你会看到这些球队尝试构建阵容时，几乎是在试图让阵容更加防弹，而不是一味追求超级球星——我能以牺牲整个阵容为代价聚集多少顶级全明星？是的。所以我认为那些球队正在取得成功。

Yeah. It doesn't seem like the winning recipe anymore. And so I think that you're gonna see these teams just try to construct rosters where almost try to bulletproof your roster a little bit more instead of going for super just how many top all stars can I gather on a team at the expense of the entire roster? Yeah. So I think those teams were having success.

这确实让选秀变得...我在想我们是在选秀前一天录制这个的。自从选秀存在以来就一直是这样。但看看步行者队。看看这两支球队。我们看看步行者队，你看看他们除了泰瑞斯（他是第十一顺位被选中，但通过交易得到的）之外的关键贡献者。

It does make the draft I'm wondering we're taping this the day before the draft. This has been the case with the draft as long as the draft has existed. But look at the Pacers. Look at both those teams. We look at the Pacers and you look at the their key contributors outside of Tyrese who was who was drafted eleventh, but they got in the trade.

你看看，比如内马尔（应指内姆布哈德），道格·麦克德莫特（口误为Anis）是他们没有选秀但通过交易得到的。奥比·托平，是的，交易来的。但也有一种感觉，我的意思是，这次选秀中很可能会有安德鲁·内姆哈德的兄弟们，这可能会对他有帮助。

And you look at, like, Nemar, Doug Anis with who they didn't draft, but they traded for. Obi Yeah. Traded for. But there is also a sense of, like I mean, it's probably gonna Andrew Nemarza brothers in this draft, and it's probably gonna help him.

毫无疑问。

For sure.

但会有一种感觉，就像，好吧。我们正在寻找那样的球员，我们能在第33顺位找到，能在第38顺位找到，我们不会就这样说，好吧。我们没能，你知道，我们没能进入前四顺位，所以我们就随便选一个试试。就像你要通过深度来建设球队，而深度不仅仅来自前15顺位。你明白吗？

But there's gonna be a sense of, like, okay. We are we're looking for dogs like that that we can find with the thirty third pick, that we can find with the thirty eighth pick, that we can we are not just going to be like, okay. We didn't, you know, we we didn't land in the top four, and so we're just gonna take a flyer on something. It's like you're gonna you you wanna build with your depth is not just gonna come from the top 15. You know?

深度会贯穿整个选秀。

The depth is gonna come throughout.

是的。另一个要强调的事情是，一如既往地，健康。就是健康。健康。你看看克利夫兰，当他们在第二轮因为伤病被击垮时，他们很快就沉没了。

Yeah. Another thing to highlight is, as always, health. It's health. Health. You look at Cleveland when when they get they got beat up in that second round to injuries, and they just sunk quickly.

就像，一整年都表现非常非常好的球队迅速沉没。再看看雷霆，从外部看，他们有一个相当健康的赛季。也许部分功劳在于他们有很多能够互相提升的球员，而不是完全依赖某一点，但健康也可能是随机的。塔图姆倒下，利拉德倒下，可能在那个系列赛初期影响非常大。是的。

Like, a really, really good team all year sunk quickly. Look at OKC, they had a from the outside looking in, a pretty healthy run. And maybe a credit to that a part of that is that they have so many pieces that are able to kind of elevate one another where it's not fully on one thing, but health can also be random. Tatum going down, Dame Lillard going down was probably really big in that initial series. Yeah.

湖人队，你知道，有报道说他们在那个系列赛中遇到了一些伤病问题之类的。所以你看到健康因素有多重要，而且每年都是如此。我的意思是，你回顾几年前篮网队，哈登的腿筋，整个事情。欧文的脚踝，那些都是巨大的。是的。

The Lakers you know, the reports are that they had some some some injury issues in in that run and stuff like that. So you see how important of a factor health plays, and it's every every every year. I mean, you look back a couple years ago at the Nets and and, what was it, a hardened hamstring and a The whole thing. Kyrie ankle, like, that those are huge. Yeah.

巨大，巨大的时刻，改变了整个季后赛的格局。所以，显然，我讨厌看到这种情况。我讨厌看到球员倒下。但简单地说，底线是，健康是取得成功的季后赛征程所必需的。

Huge, huge moments that that changed the whole landscape of the playoffs. So, obviously, I hate to see it. I hate to see guys go down. But just simply as a bottom line, like, health is required in in making a successful playoff run.

我们几周前和特雷讨论过这个。关于比赛场次或类似的事情，你有没有考虑过任何改变？

We talked about this with Trey a couple weeks ago. Is there any do you have any thought about any sort of change in terms of number of games or anything like that?

我确实对此有些想法。你知道，我认为如今的NBA比赛节奏更快了。随着比赛节奏的提高，我认为这一点无可争议。当然，常规赛一直是82场，季后赛的轮次也保持不变。或许，你可以回顾一下我们将五场系列赛改为七场系列赛的时候。

I do have thoughts on it. You know, I do think the NBA today is played faster. As the pace is higher, I don't think you can argue that. Of course, it's always been 82 games with the same amount of playoff runs. Maybe, know, you can look back to the when we changed five game series to seven game series.

我不知道青年体育专业化在其中扮演了多大角色——那些如今进入NBA的孩子们，一年365天不间断地打篮球，AU巡回赛一个接一个，比赛一场接一场，贯穿他们整个成长过程。我不确定这是否是影响因素之一。但这确实很艰难，非常艰难。你看看像泰瑞斯的小腿伤势这种情况。

I don't know how much of a role maybe specialization in youth sports where kids that are now coming to the NBA have been playing nonstop basketball three hundred sixty five days a year, AU tournament after AU tournament, game after game after game, their whole lives. I don't know if that's what plays a part. But it's tough. It's tough. And you look at something like a like Tyrese's calf.

比如，那是小腿拉伤。这种小腿拉伤在带伤坚持比赛后，变成了一个改变职业生涯的伤病，导致你缺席整个——你将缺席整个赛季。我认为减少比赛场次可能会降低伤病率。虽然不能保证，但有可能。但与此同时，这也是NBA一贯的运作方式。

Like, that's a calf strain. That's a calf strain that that when played through became a career in this moment altering injury where you miss an entire c you're due to miss an entire season. I think less games could result in less injuries. It's not that it's guaranteed to, but it could. But at the same time, the it's the way the NBA has always operated.

你可以说这种模式最大化了收益。我的意思是，观众席依然座无虚席。所以关于这方面该如何处理，有很多论点可以讨论。我相信随着我们投入大量资源进行伤病预防——我们一直在这样做——将会出现大量、海量的研究。这是一个不断变化的领域，但确实有很多非常聪明的人毕生致力于职业运动中的伤病预防和运动员体能训练。

It's it you could argue that it maximized the money. I mean, butts are still in seats. So there's a lot of arguments to be made around what to do on that aspect. And I'm sure there's going to be plenty, tons and tons of research as we pour a lot of resources into injury prevention, as we continue to do it. It's an ever changing landscape, but there's a lot of really bright minds that actually dedicate their lives to injury prevention in professional sports and how to condition athletes.

因为如果训练过度，就会导致过度使用性损伤；如果训练不足，则会出现那种试图猛踩油门时发生的伤病。所以这确实是一条微妙的界线，我认为人们并没有完全理解。但这确实是一个持续不断的争论。

Because if you overdo it, then you get overuse injuries. If you underdo it, then you get those you're trying to hit the gas pedal too hard injuries. So it's really a sensitive line that I don't think people really understand fully. But but I it's it's it's an ever ongoing debate.

我告诉你我觉得——虽然不知道他们是否会做出改变——但应该重新审视的一点，我们之前讨论过，很多球员也讨论过，去年泰瑞斯受伤时我在节目中也和他聊过这个话题，就是65场的规定

I'll tell you the thing that I feel like I don't know if they're gonna change anything, but should be revisited, which we've talked about. A bunch of players have talked about. I've talked about with Tyrese in the show as well last year about this when he had some injury stuff is the 65 game

是的。

Yeah.

事情是这样的。因为我确实认为，嗯，就像，那个65场才能入选最佳阵容的规定基本上就是这个要求。因为现在已经有记录在案的例子了。球员们提前复出，比他们应该复出的时间更早，试图，你知道，让自己达到那个门槛来入选。而我，我认为虽然，就像，他们设立这个规定的初衷是好的，但实际执行起来，就像我们讨论的，总得有所妥协，可能应该调整这个规定。

Thing. Because I do think, well, like, that was a 65 games to make all NBA, basically, the the requirement of it. Because it does there's now documented examples of it. Guys coming back early, earlier than they should to try to, you know, get themselves under that threshold to make that. And I and I think that while, like, there's a nobility in why they put it in in practicality with what we're talking about, like, something has to give, and it probably should be that.

而且，说实话，我觉得，比起在孟菲斯打一场客场比赛让他们的球迷看到你，你在季后赛保持健康更重要。明白我的意思吗？就像，我只是

And I you know, to be sorta honest about it, I I think that it's less important that, like, you know, you play a road game in Memphis so their fans can see you than, like, you're healthy in the playoffs. Know what mean? Like, I just

没错。我只是不喜欢那种‘球迷付了钱’的论调

off. Right? I just don't like like argument that the fans pay

电视转播伙伴等等等等。我就想，但是你知道吗？你知道什么对电视转播伙伴真的不好吗？如果

The TV partners and da da da da. And I'm like, but you know what? Like, you know what's really bad for the TV partners? If

一次重大

A big

伤病。球星打不了季后赛。而且，就像，你不能两头都占。嗯。我认为我们现在正看到这一点，就像，这感觉像是，如果你要改变什么，确实有一个真正的论点，即使当初的出发点是好的，但现在导致的结果是，有很多例子表明球员们无法在季后赛前恢复健康。

injury. Stars are not playing in the playoffs. And, like, you're you can't have it both ways. Uh-huh. And I think we're seeing that now is, like, that feels like the thing that feels like if you're gonna change anything, there there's a there's a real sort of argument that that even if it was done for the right reason has now resulted in there's a bunch of examples of guys who have not been able to get themselves healthy for the playoffs.

讽刺的是，不是我们这次季后赛讨论的这些球员，但去年这种情况发生了很多。我认为，你描述的所有这些情况，现状感觉需要有所改变了。

Ironically, not the ones we're talking about in this particular playoffs, but it's happened last year a lot. And I think that you're just there's a all of the things you're describing, you the status quo feels like something has to shift a little bit.

这里确实有讨论的空间，但假设赛季从82场减少到65场比赛。这并不能保证球员会更健康。确实不能。因为伤病也可能是随机发生的。所以也许一个球员原本打82场中的62场，现在变成打62场中的45场。

There there's a discussion to be had, but say you change from 82 to 65 games as a season. It doesn't guarantee that guys are are healthier. It does not. Because injuries can also be random. So maybe instead of a guy playing 62 out of 82 games, a guy plays 45 out of 62 games.

你仍然会缺席比赛。所以这并不是一个简单的解决方案。真的不是。但说到你提到的，你宁愿在背靠背的某个随机周二客场比赛中休息，当你身体不适时——我觉得观众们可能不太理解他们对我们行为的追踪有多细致。比如，他们会追踪我们在场上和训练中的每一步，在锻炼中的每一步，在比赛中的每一步。

You're still missing time. So it's not there's not a simple fix. There's just not. But to your point about, you know, you would rather sit out this random Tuesday road game on a back to back when you're banged up to like, I don't think people at home really understand how much they track what we're doing. Like, when they track every step we take on court and practice, every step we take in workouts, every step we take in games.

然后他们会建立风险档案来判断你何时处于风险中。所以即使风险很低需要管理——我不确定具体术语是什么，也不了解NBA的相关规定，因为之前确实有过因此被罚款的情况。但这些决定并非随意的，比如'哥们，你累了'这样。在大多数情况下，这些都是经过计算的决定，以对运动员最有利为出发点。

And they develop risk risk profiles to see when you're at risk. So when a guy even if it's low management, I don't know what the terms are. I don't know what the anything is, you know, with the legality of an NBA because there have been fines handed down for stuff like that. But these are not random, like, oh buddy, like you're tired. Like these are calculated decisions in most cases to be what's best for the athlete.

所以我知道观众可能会觉得这样太软弱，随便怎么说吧。但归根结底，你要对自己的职业生涯负责。你身边的人也要对你的职业生涯负责。有时候做出这些决定是为了不让轻伤变成重伤，导致缺席数月甚至整个赛季。所以就像我说的，伙计，这是一条非常微妙的界线，我相信随着我们寻找解决方案，会有大量资源持续投入其中。

And so I know people at home might think it's soft, it's whatever, it's whatever. But at the end of day, you're responsible for your career. And the people that are around you are responsible for your career. And sometimes decisions are made that you don't want a minor injury to turn to a major injury where you're missing multiple months or maybe even season. So like I said, man, it's a really fine line that I'm sure tons of resources are gonna continue to be poured in as we look for a solution.

如果能请一位棒球投手来节目会很有意思。我觉得棒球领域有很多相似之处。我认为投手们——当然我们想听听他们的说法，但我的感觉是他们和身边的人都更坚决，会说'不行'。比如'我可不想做汤米约翰手术'。他们会说'我们能忍受疼痛'。

It would be it would be interesting to have for us to have a a pitcher on here. I think there's a lot of parallels in baseball. And I think that pitchers, this is you know, we'd wanna hear it from them, but my sense is they are that they and the people around them are a little more hardcore about being like, nope. Like, we're I'm like, I don't want Tommy John. Like, we're like, we are going we we have we have, you know, pain.

他们对任何疼痛都异常敏感。

They're so sensitive to any sort of pain.

他们觉得自己能感知到最细微的变化。

They feel like they know every when the slightest things are.

是的。确实如此，但这里存在一个类似的问题，你知道，如果Skenes或者几年前的DeGrom每五天投球一次，对MLB来说会很棒。但如果替代方案是他们这样做然后突然在五个月后筋疲力尽，你就需要他们。基本上这些联盟需要你们。他们需要在十月份有你们。

Yeah. And it is but there is a there is sort of a similar thing of, you know, the you know, it would be great for the MLB if if Skenes or, you know, DeGrom a couple years ago pitched every five days. But if the alternative is, you know, they do that and then all of a sudden they burn out five months in, you need that. You basically these league the leagues need you guys. They need them in October.

他们需要在五月和六月有你们。对吧。所以他们必须想办法实现这一点。

They need you guys in May and June. Right. So they have to figure out how they can get to that.

没错。作为海盗队球迷，我超爱Skenes每晚都投球。是的。

Right. As a pirates fan, love Skeens of Pitch every night. Yeah.

我喜欢这样。

I love it.

大家好，我是Denise Chan，《骗局工厂》的主持人。你可能还记得我们调查系列揭露的那些可疑短信背后的真相。在亚洲各地戒备森严的园区内，成千上万的人被困并被迫诈骗他人，否则将面临酷刑风险。我们最震撼的故事之一是Jella的遭遇，这位年轻女性本以为找到了梦想工作，结果却被囚禁在诈骗园区。

Hi. I'm Denise Chan, host of Scam Factory. You might remember hearing about our investigative series that exposed what's really happening behind those suspicious texts you get. Inside heavily guarded compounds across Asia, thousands are trapped and forced to scam others or risk torture. One of our most powerful stories was Jella's, a young woman who thought she'd found her dream job, only to end up imprisoned in a scam compound.

她的逃脱故事引起了Phoebe Judge团队的关注，我很荣幸能与他们的听众分享Jella旅程的更多细节。但Jella的故事只是这项调查的一部分。在《骗局工厂》中，我们揭示了一个价值数十亿美元的犯罪帝国如何将求职者变成囚犯，以及唯一的出路是通过诈骗自救。准备好揭开完整故事了吗？立即 binge 收听《骗局工厂》所有剧集。

Her escape story caught the attention of criminals Phoebe Judge, and I'm honored to share more details of Jella's journey with their audience. But Jella's story is just one piece of this investigation. In Scam Factory, we reveal how a billion dollar criminal empire turns job seekers into prisoners, and how the only way out is to scam your way out. Ready to uncover the full story? Binge all episodes of scam factory now.

在Wondery应用或你获取播客的任何地方收听《骗局工厂》。

Listen to scam factory on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是你们的老朋友尼克·坎农，在此为大家带来我的全新播客《深夜尼克秀》。听说你们在感情方面急需一些建议。那还有谁比我更合适来帮忙呢？不，我是认真的。每周我都会邀请一些明星好友和业内顶尖专家，来解答你们最私密的问题。

It's your man, Nick Cannon, and I'm here to bring you my new podcast Nick Cannon at Night. I've heard y'all been needing some advice in the love department. So who better to help than yours truly? No, I'm serious. Every week, I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best experts in the business to answer your most intimate questions.

和男友闹矛盾？我们帮你解决。对秘密情人动了真心？先让我们确认这是否值得。准备在卧室尝试情趣玩具？

Having problems with your man? We got you. Catching feelings for your sneaky link? Let's make sure it's the real deal first. Ready to bring toys into the bedroom?

咱们好好聊聊。这里是无评判地带，欢迎提出关于性爱、现代约会、恋爱关系、友谊、暧昧关系等所有相关话题的问题。节目会充满性感、疯狂、混乱的元素，知道吗？你只需要收看节目就好。所以别害羞。

Let's talk about it. Consider this a non judgment zone to ask your questions when it it comes to sex and modern dating in relationships, friendships, situationships, and everything in between. It's gonna be sexy, freaky, messy, and you know what? You'll just have to watch the show. So don't be shy.

快来参与互动，前往YouTube观看《深夜尼克秀》，或在Wondery应用及各大播客平台订阅。想提前观看无广告版剧集？立即加入Wondery+会员。

Join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Wanna watch episodes early and ad free? Join Wondery plus right now.

最后一点，因为我们之前讨论过这个话题，而你对此有很多见解。关于总决赛的盛况转播，各种环节——他们从系列赛中途开始播放赛前介绍片段。

The last thing before we go, because we were talking about this before and you've a lot of thoughts and perspective on this. There was a lot of conversation around the pageantry finals, the, you know, the broadcast, the all kinds of the they started showing the pregame intros halfway through the series.

我觉得这很棒。

Which I thought was great.

有人提到了球场问题。是的。关于球场上的贴纸你有什么特别看法吗？因为之前有个投诉是说他们过去必须贴满总决赛标识奖杯。对，奖杯图案贴满全场，后来他们又撕掉了。

People brought up the courts. Yeah. And do you have thoughts on the stickers specifically on the courts because this was a complaint that they used to have to stick the finals logos Trophies. Yeah. Trophies all over the courts, and they took them off.

所以他们在第一场比赛中做的是将贴纸叠加在一起。当然，这就像互联网一样，没人对任何事满意，所以人们也讨厌这个。但我觉得你对这些贴纸有具体的想法，这很相关。

And so what they did in game one was they superimposed them. And, of course, it's like the Internet, so no one is happy with anything, so people hated that too. But you have specific thoughts, I feel like, on the stickers, which are relevant.

好吧。我认为从美学角度来说，当你在中心球场看到那个巨大的决赛标志时，它带来了那种氛围。它营造了你所寻找的那种氛围。这很怀旧，很有特色。

Okay. So I I do think aesthetically when you have that finals gigantic logo at center Court, it brings that vibe. It brings that ambiance that you're looking for. It's nostalgic. It's it has character.

但如果它——我还没在——你懂我的意思吗？我还没在那个特定的球场上打过球。但如果它

But if it's and I haven't played on I haven't you know what I mean? I haven't played on that specific court. But if it

在01年就没有了？那时候没有贴纸了

is gone in it was gone in 01? There was no stickers in

01年？什么时候

In 01? When

或者不，不是。是21年。

or in no. No. '21.

是的。没有贴纸了。没有。

Yeah. There was no stickers. No.

没有贴纸。

No stickers.

好吧。贴纸已经消失有一会儿了。是的。如果是贴纸的话，没人喜欢在贴纸上打球。很多大学球队在11月参加那些随机锦标赛之类的比赛时会在贴纸上打，它们很滑，感觉不同，球的弹跳也不同。

Okay. The stickers have been gone for a minute. Yeah. And if it is a sticker, stick nobody likes playing on stickers. A lot of college teams play on stickers when you play in those, like, random tournaments in November and stuff, and they're slippery, like different feel, different ball bounce.

它们可能会，你懂我的意思吗？你运球过半场，改变方向。如果你不注意自己在场上的位置，那很危险。而且那个贴纸在NBA总决赛场地上那么大，我相信它被移除是有正当理由的。现在对此的反驳是制作一个全新的球场并喷绘上去。

They might you know what I mean? You're dribbling up the court, change direction. Like, if you if you're not attentive to where you're on the court, like, it's it's dangerous. And as big as that sticker was on that on on an NBA court, in the finals court, like, I'm sure it was taken out for legitimate reason. Now the the counter to that is to create a whole new court and paint it on.

那显然有它自己的一系列挑战，而且我认为家里的人也不明白球场有多贵。我相信它们要花费数十万美元。我们需要核实一下

That obviously has its own set of challenges where I also don't think people at home understand how expensive courts are. They're hundreds of thousands of dollars, I believe. We'd have to get a fact check

就在你家里放一个吧。

on just put one in your house.

是啊。嗯，那很贵，而且那不是可移动的全场。我可以告诉你这么多。所以我确信要花费数十万美元。所以仅仅为了一个喷绘调整，然后你还要面对储存的挑战，还有设施和管理的挑战，这在我大学体育管理项目和硕士项目中都学过。

Yeah. Well, that was expensive, and that is not a removable full court. I'll tell you that much. So I'm sure it's hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so just for a a paint adjustment, and then you have the challenge of then storing it, and then you have the challenge of this is facilities and management in my sport admin program in college and my master's program.

然后你还要面对赛季结束后怎么处理它的挑战。当总决赛结束后，你是把它存起来以备下次总决赛之用？还是重新利用它？这很难做到，不是件容易的事。所以球队通常尽量携带两个球场，有些可能带三个，取决于储存空间和他们愿意花多少钱在上面。

Then you have the challenge of what do do with it when the season's over, When the finals run is over, do you stash it for maybe another finals run? Do you repurpose it? Like and that's a tough thing to do. It's not an easy thing to do. So teams usually carry try to carry maybe two courts, some maybe three depending on storage and how much they wanna spend on it.

但是

But

但你能解释一下吗？因为这个问题被提出来了，我确信这会是第一个疑问。贴纸危险导致地面湿滑是完全说得通的。但季中锦标赛球场的不一致问题呢？因为人们会说，那为什么你们有红牛队的球场，或者在常规赛中有各种不同的设计呢？

But can you explain? Because this was brought up, and I'm sure this will be the first question of this. This is a the stick the the stickers being dangerous is slippery makes total sense. The discrepancy with the in season tournament courts. Because people are gonna be like, well, then why do you have a red bulls court or you have all these different things for, you know, a random game at the

全新的球场。我猜它们可能是被重新利用的，但那些球场上没有贴纸。它们是全部喷漆的。

end of fresh courts. I I maybe they're repurposed and they're but that's not there's no stickers on those. They're completely painted.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我确信联盟做出了全面决定，这就是为什么我说他们很可能可以喷涂新球场之类的。但这些季中锦标赛球场肯定有些不同，也许它们是回收利用的。就像，它们被反复使用，所以喷漆特别厚重。

And so I'm sure there's something that the league decided full on, which is why I'm saying it's probably possible for them to paint new courts and stuff like that. But I there's gotta be something slightly different about those in season courts where maybe they're, like, recycled. Like, they're, like, and that's why they're painted so heavily.

我觉得一个简单的解决办法——当然不是征求我的意见，但他们今年本可以做的，以后也可以继续做，虽然不可能让所有人都完全满意，但可以稍微改变一下动态——就是只处理底线区域。像NFL那样，就像端区。你知道，他们有不同球队的标志等等，只需要让底线变成某种特定颜色。

And I feel like a easy fix, which is not you know, no. Not asking my opinion on this, but something they could have done this year and they could do moving forward, which would probably no. You're never gonna make everyone fully happy, but could change, like, change the dynamic a little bit is just having the baseline. Treat it like the NFL where it's like in the end zone. You know, they have the different team logos and everything and just have, like, the the baseline be a certain color.

好的。你明白我的意思吗？然后让

Okay. And you know what I mean? And have

那就这样吧。因为那是另一回事，他们在季中锦标赛中那样做，是非常刻意甚至可能有些过头的。但

that be that. Because that's something different because they did that with in season tournament, they did it very deliberately and probably over the top. But it was

但这很奇怪。真的很奇怪。说实话，就像你周日去看雷霆队的比赛？你会发现球场完全一模一样。

But it But it was weird. It was weird. I just like like, honestly speaking, it's like you go to the is it Thunder game Sunday? And you're like, it's the exact same court.

是的。我完全支持

Yeah. I'm all for

把七场总决赛都做成这样，所有细节都完全一样

making seven of the finals, it's the exact everything about it is exactly the same

我同意你的看法。我完全支持让那个环境感觉不同，我确实认为他们应该以某种方式改变。比如像以前那样用贴纸，但实际上是喷绘logo，或者只是在底线做些改变。那么对于转播方在球场上强加的内容，主要的抱怨是什么？

in I'm with you. I'm all for making that environment feel different, and I definitely think they should in some way. If that's painting the logos on like they used to with the sticker, but actually painting it or just changing something on the baselines or just what is the main complaint with the, like, the broadcast impositions on the court? What is the main complaint with that?

关于那个，关于他们叠加显示的内容？对我来说，这可能有点

With the oh, with them with them superimposing it on? I think it's to me, it's it's probably a

看起来有点俗气？

little cheesy looking?

或者我觉得这很可能是个问题。你总是得小心对待这些抱怨，因为网上有那么一些人——纯粹就是为了抱怨。他们对所有事情都要抱怨。纯粹就是为了抱怨。他们就会说，他们当然会这么说，因为他们本来就不满意，所以一旦他们脑子里有了这个念头，觉得你需要有贴纸，需要有这个那个，你就没什么办法能让他们满意了。

Or I think it's probably a thing. You always have to be careful with these complaints because there's, like, certain people that live online Just a complaint. That bitch about everything. Just a complaint. And they're be like, of course they're gonna say that because they're like, they already were not happy, and so there's nothing you could do to kind of, like, please them once they had their this thought in their head that you needed to have stickers, you needed to have whatever it is.

这解决不了问题。我猜这可能让大约85%的观众——那些本来就没太仔细看的人——可能根本没注意到有什么区别。所以他们看到后，就觉得，哦，这挺有意思的。这些人就是不会在网上抱怨的那类，因为他们不在乎。

This is not gonna make it work. My guess is it probably made, like, 85% of the people watching who weren't really paying that close attention to begin with probably didn't notice either way. And so they saw that, they were like, oh, that's interesting. Those are the same people that are not complaining online because they don't care.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得他们可能……我不知道有什么解决办法，但他们可能被诟病的地方在于，这基本上就像是在广告间歇之后发生的。所以就像是第一节还剩六分钟时什么都没有。然后四分钟时又有了，你就觉得……

I think that the way they probably I don't know a way around this, but where they probably just got dinged was it was basically like it was like after a commercial break. So it was like six minutes left in the first quarter. There's nothing there. And then four minutes there is, and you're just like

他们是不是中途也改过一次？

Didn't they change it at one point too?

是的。所以这就显得，如果你真的很注意看的话，这确实有点像是他们在实时调整，这确实有点奇怪，你知道吗？但是，我也得说——你得给联盟点赞，比如他们甚至做了开场介绍，而且其中一些也是……我们不知道答案的是，这些是和联盟的对话，但同时也涉及到广播网络。

Yeah. So it's like, you're really paying attention. Like, that does it does look a little bit like they're figuring this out literally in real time, which is which is strange. You know? And and and but I also would give the you have to give the league credit, like, even doing the intro and and some of this is also, like, what we don't know the answer to is the these are conversations with the league, but then also with broadcast networks.

而且，我的意思是，我们明白这是完全另一个话题了。我们现在没时间深入讨论ESPN。但是，就像，如果他们……这应该是他们的责任来做这个。就好像，我们不能要求联盟包办一切。你们是负责制作的一方。

And, I mean, we get it's a whole different conversation. We don't have to have time to get into right now about ESPN. But, like, they if they just like, that should be on them to do this. It's like, we can't ask the league to do everything. It's like, you guys have this You're responsible for a production.

好吧。比如，你有没有看过九十年代鲍勃·科斯塔斯为比赛做的那种老式开场白，他还会为大学橄榄球之类的写评论文章？我就想，你拿那个和我们现在的一比。懂吗？而且这和NBA其实没啥关系。

Okay. Like, did you ever watch the old, like, Bob Costas intros to, like, the games in the nineties where he did the essays and he did for, like, college football and stuff like that too? I'm like, you compare that to what we have now. You know? And that has nothing to do with the NBA.

不是联盟的问题。那是电视台。那是电视台在说，我们要，嗯，我理解。他们没有一个鲍勃·科斯塔斯那样的人。

Not That's network. That's not the league. That's network. That's a network being like, we are going to, like and I get it. Like, they don't have a Bob Costas.

他们有，你知道，斯蒂芬·A·史密斯。但是，但是，但是，基本上你得说，那是他们的责任，去增加那种仪式感。你得在一定程度上把抱怨指向正确的地方。联盟负责的是，比如，比赛产品本身，他们在这方面做得很好。他们倾听球员的意见，倾听球队的意见，与球队合作。

They have, you know, Steven A. But but but, like, but you basically are like, that is that's on them to, like, add the pageantry to it. You have to you have to point the complaint at the right place to a certain extent. It's like the league was responsible for, like, the product, and they've done a good job with that. And they listen to the players, and they listen to the teams, they work with the teams.

所以，这将会非常有趣，因为所有这些新的电视合作伙伴要来了，亚马逊、NBC，而且，他们显然会在乎这个。懂吗？所以现在，真的要看ESPN的表现了，就像，人们已经有点在为此批评你们了。现在你们又多了两个也会关注这事的伙伴。你们必须得把它做好。

And so and this is gonna be really interesting because you got all these new TV partners coming in, Amazon, NBC, and, like, they're they clearly are gonna care. You know? So now it's, like, now it's really gonna be on ESPN to be like like, you people are already kind of, like, dumping on you for this now. Now you got two other people who, like, are gonna pay attention to this. Like, you gotta get it right.

是的。完全正确。

Yep. Exactly.

话虽如此，我们要去看史蒂夫·纳什的足球赛了。向他致敬。所以我们下周左右再见啦，各位。

That being said, we're going to Steve Nash's soccer game. Shout out to him. So we will we will see you guys next week or so.