12. 重要的不是说什么，而是怎么说：如何展现沟通的力量

嗨，我是马特。

Hi, Matt here.

在开始之前，我想提醒大家我们的新学习社区‘Think Fast Talk Smart’，来自世界各地的听众可以在这里一起练习，提升沟通能力与职业发展。

Before we get started, I wanted to remind you about our new Think Fast Talk Smart learning community, where listeners from around the world can come together to practice and transform their communication and careers.

会员可享受独家点播课程、引导式任务、直播读书会、AI教练Mat以及更多内容。

Members get access to exclusive on demand learning lessons, guided quests, live book club calls, an AI coach mat, and much more.

立即前往fastersmarter.iolearning加入我们。

Join today at fastersmarter.iolearning.

如果你在1月2日前注册，将免费获得一个月会员服务。

If you sign up before January 2, you will get one month free.

随着节日临近，你可以送出一份改善沟通能力的礼物。

And with the holidays coming, you can give the gift of better communication.

现在，让我们听听来自我们赞助商的一条信息。

Now here's a message from one of our sponsors.

在‘Think Fast, Talk Smart’，我们行动迅速。

Here at Think Fast, Talk Smart, we move fast.

从撰写面试问题到编写邮件、提案和演示文稿笔记。

From writing interview questions to crafting emails, proposals, and presentation notes.

但在不同工具之间处理所有这些内容，确实会拖慢你的进度。

But juggling all those pieces across different tools, that can really slow you down.

频繁切换标签页、在不同应用间复制粘贴，还要费力回忆上一次编辑的位置，这既耗时又令人沮丧。

Switching tabs, copying and pasting between apps, trying to remember where the last edit lives, it's time consuming and quite honestly, a little frustrating.

因此，我使用Grammarly。

That's why I use Grammarly.

它专为需要从空白页面开始，最终在一处完成精美成品的专业人士量身打造。

It's tailor made for professionals who need to take a project from blank page to polished finish all in one place.

人工智能不会消失，为什么不利用它来提升效率呢？

And AI isn't going anywhere, so why not use it to your advantage?

Grammarly的实时建议、语气反馈和AI聊天功能，帮助我更快地头脑风暴和精细打磨。

Grammarly's real time suggestions, tone feedback, and AI chat help me brainstorm and fine tune faster.

让你的思路持续流动，专注于真正重要的事——你的信息。

So keep your ideas flowing and stay focused on what really matters, your message.

免费注册，体验Grammarly如何从头到尾提升您的专业写作。

Sign up for free and experience how Grammarly can elevate your professional writing from start to finish.

访问 grammarly.com/podcast。

Visit grammarly.com/podcast.

那就是 grammarly.com/podcast。

That's grammarly.com/podcast.

你好。

Hi.

我是马特·阿布拉姆斯。

Matt Abrahams here.

为了换个口味，我们想换个角度，听听您的声音。

For a change of pace, we'd like to turn the tables and listen to you.

您正在应对哪些沟通问题和难题？

What communication questions and conundrums are you grappling with?

通过语音备忘录应用录制一段10到15秒的问题，发送至 stanfordbusinessstanford dot edu。

Record a ten to fifteen second question via a voice memo app and send it to us at stanfordbusinessstanford dot edu.

请在主题行中写上‘快速思考，聪明表达’。

Be sure to write think fast, talk smart in the subject line.

此外，在邮件正文中请注明您的姓名和您发送问题的地点。

Also, in the body of the message, include your name and where you're sending your question from.

我们接受问题的截止日期是6月30日。

We'll be accepting questions until June 30.

再次提醒，请将您录制的沟通问题发送至斯坦福商学院（一个词），邮箱地址是 stanford.edu，截止日期为6月30日。

Again, send your audio recorded communication questions to Stanford Business, that's all one word, at Stanford dot edu by June 30.

我们会挑选一些问题，并在下一期节目中为您解答。

We'll pick some questions and answer them on an upcoming episode.

再次感谢您的收听。

Thanks again for listening.

你好。

Hello.

我是马特·阿布拉姆斯，在斯坦福商学院教授战略沟通课程。

I'm Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.

欢迎收听《快速思考，聪明表达》播客。

Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

你知道吗，当我教商学院时，学生们都会认真听讲、做笔记，并且很有礼貌地提问。

You know, when I teach at the business school, my listen, they take notes, they ask questions very politely.

但当我回到家，却得不到同样的待遇。

But when I come home, I don't get the same kind of treatment.

我的孩子们根本不听，礼貌有时就抛到九霄云外了。

My kids don't listen, politeness sometimes goes out the door.

我在工作和家里的地位和权力感截然不同。

My status and power feel very different at work and at home.

权力渗透在我们个人和职业生活的方方面面。

Power permeates all facets of our personal and professional lives.

今天，我非常高兴邀请到黛布·格伦菲尔德，她是斯坦福商学院组织行为学的约瑟夫·麦克唐纳教授。

Today, am so excited to be joined by Deb Grunfeld, who is the Joseph MacDonald Professor of Organizational Behavior at the GSB.

黛布的研究探讨了人们如何被其工作所在的组织和社会结构所改变。

Deb's research examines how people are transformed by the organizations and social structures in which they work.

她教授一门极其受欢迎的课程——《以力量行动》，并刚刚出版了一本同名书籍《以力量行动：为什么我们比自己想象的更有力量》。

She teaches the incredibly popular class Acting with Power and just released a book with the same name, Acting with Power, Why We Are More Powerful Than We Believe.

由于我们现在都居家，Deb 和我得以在线上相聚。

Since we're all at home these days, Deb and I were able to catch up virtually.

Deb，非常感谢你来到这里，祝贺你新书出版。

Deb, thanks so much for being here and congratulations on your new book.

我目前正在读这本书，真的非常享受。

I'm reading it now and I'm really enjoying it.

太好了。

Oh, that's great.

谢谢你这么说。

Thanks for saying that.

是的，我很高兴终于走到了发布这一步。

And, yeah, I'm very happy to be on the other side of the launch.

我只能想象。

Can only imagine.

好的。

Alright.

嘿，我们开始吧。

Hey, let's get started.

我想先提一个定义性的问题。

I'd like to start with a definitional question.

你如何定义权力？它在我们的工作和家庭关系中是如何体现的？

How do you define power, and how does it play out in our relationships at work and at home?

权力是人们以多种不同方式思考的话题，我们常常错误地认为权力是一种个人品质。

So power's one of those topics people think about it in a lot of different ways, and we make the mistake often of thinking that power is like a personal quality.

但权力实际上是一种源于我们关系以及我们如何管理关系的资源，它与关系双方相互依赖的程度有关。

But power is actually a resource that comes out of our relationships and how we manage our relationships, and it has to do with the extent to which relationship partners need one another.

因此，每当人们相互需要时，双方在关系中都拥有权力，相对而言，需要对方较少的一方在关系中拥有更多权力，所以这实际上与我们在关系中创造的价值以及我们的关系伙伴有多少替代选择有关，你可以看到权力来自工作中的许多不同来源。

So whenever people need one another, they both have power in a relationship the person who needs the other less Relative to vice versa has more power in the relationship So it really has to do with how much value we add in our relationships and how many alternatives our relationship partners have to to working with us So you can see power coming from many different types of sources that work, You know comes from formal reporting relationships.

当我们是老板时，存在职位权力，我们拥有命令他人做什么的权威或权利，人们需要我们来获得加薪、奖金、评估等；但即使在没有正式汇报关系的情况下，我们也能看到类似的动态。

There's positional power when when we're the boss we have the the authority or the right to tell people what to do and people need us for you know raises and bonuses evaluations whatever it is But we see the same types of dynamics even in situations where there are no formal reporting relationships.

所以，比如在同龄人之间，就存在权力差异，一个人在特定时间因为特定原因往往更需要另一个人，因此他们会发现自己处于相对无力的位置，可能不得不比伴侣付出更多努力来维系关系。婚姻中也是如此，很抱歉这么说，但这个问题通常会出现。

So, You know in peers for example There are power differences one person will often need the other friend more at a particular time for a particular reason and so they'll find themselves in a relatively powerless position where maybe they have to work a little bit harder on the relationship than their partner does the same thing is true in marriages I'm sorry to say but usually that question comes up

没错。

So right

我们喜欢婚姻中平等的理念，但事实上，我们发现夫妻管理权力差异的方式是：他们在不同领域拥有权力。你在某些领域做决定，而你的配偶则在其他领域做决定。我认为，这就是我们所能达到的最接近平等的状态了。但归根结底，这取决于我们有多想取悦他人，以及我们有多依赖他们。

we love the idea of equality in marriage, but actually I think what we really find is that that The way couples manage power differences is that they get to have power in different realms So you get to be the decider in certain realms and your spouse gets to be the decider in other Realms and that's as close as we get to equality I think but again, it just has to do with You know, how how eager we are to please others and let them have their way based on how much we need them.

我不知道和你的对话，黛布，居然会像给我做心理治疗一样。

I didn't know our conversation, Deb, was gonna be more like therapy for me.

你让我回忆起了高中时期，参与不同群体的经历，然后又带我回到了我的亲密关系中。

You took me back to high school and being part of different groups, and then you took me into my relationship.

权力，权力蕴含着许多能影响人的动态。

Power is, power power has a lot of dynamics that can influence people.

我知道你曾与演员合作，帮助他们探索权力的动态与表现形式。

I know you've worked with actors to help explore the dynamics and manifestations of power.

根据你的经验，我想知道，权力在非语言行为和气场方面是什么样的表现？

Based on what you've learned, I'm curious what power looks like in terms of nonverbal behavior and presence.

当然。

Sure.

我会试着给你几个关键词，也许你的听众在思考自己是否用身体传达出力量感时可以记住。

So I'll try to give you just a few words that maybe your listeners can remember when thinking about, whether they're using their body in a way that projects power.

第一个是是否保持正对姿势——是否正对着对方，体重均匀分布在双腿上，而不是侧身、头倾斜、重心放在一侧髋部。任何让我们身体偏离正对姿势、无法直接面对对方的行为，都会削弱我们自身在关系中的力量感。因此，保持正对是很重要的一点。我们有时也会谈到静止，很多人在焦虑时，身体会不自觉地做出很多动作，让能量四处流失：比如坐立不安、整理自己、玩头发。如果你留意那些拥有权威的人，你会发现他们往往非常安静、专注，能量使用集中，而头部的静止尤其重要。

The first one is whether you're on the square whether you're facing someone directly With your weight evenly distributed on both legs as opposed to turn to the side with your head tilted Maybe your weight on one hip hip anything we do to take our body off the square so that we're not facing someone directly Undermines how powerful we we feel, to our relationship partners So being square is one we sometimes talk about stillness and working on stillness a lot of us when we're anxious, Do a lot of things physically with our bodies that like lets the energy kind of leak out in all different types of directions We fidget we groom ourselves play with our hair and One of the things you'll notice if you pay attention to, to people who have a lot of authority is they tend to be very still and focused and how they use their energy and Stillness of the head is actually a very important one.

所以你经常会注意到，当一个人非常有权威时。

So you'll notice often when Someone is very authoritative.

他们在说话时头部保持绝对静止。我最近与几位年轻的企业创始人合作，他们告诉我，其中一人被建议在参加会议前戴上头饰，以此练习静止，保持头部纹丝不动。想象一下你戴着一顶沉重的头饰或王冠，你会发现它会迫使你的身体保持挺直，同时拉长你的颈部，让你的头部保持相对静止。因此，静止是一个很好的方法。沉默是另一个有趣的方面：为了填补沉默而说话，其实是把权力拱手相让。因此，能够从容地保持沉默，往往是将权力天平向自己倾斜的好方法。我们经常谈到扩展姿态，我们知道动物展现力量的方式是身体扩张——让手臂远离身体。

They speak in a way while they're keeping their head perfectly still and, I worked with some young company founders recently who Told me that one of them had been coached to put on his headdress before going into meeting as a way of practicing Stillness and keeping his head perfectly still if you imagine yourself wearing a heavy Headdress or a crown what you realize it keeps your body straight up and down But it also forces you to elongate Your neck and keep your head relatively still so stillness is a good one Silence is another interesting one Speaking to fill the science silence is a way of giving power away So being comfortable holding silence often is a good way of shifting the balance of power in your own direction We talk a lot about spreading out so we know that the way animals project powers to be physically expansive They keep their arms away from their body.

它们会，你知道的，像‘占座’那样分开双腿。我想更注重的是更实用、专业且性别中立的做法：简单来说，保持胸部打开非常重要，因为它传递出一种慷慨和无畏的感觉。

They they you know manspread keep their knees apart, What I like to focus on to be more, you know Practical professional a gender neutral is thinking about things like basically just keeping your chest open is very important though, You know, it just conveys a kind of a generosity and a lack of fear Mhmm.

如果你能保持肩膀后展、胸部打开。

If you can keep your shoulders, back and your chest open.

当我教授这些内容时，听起来和你说的很多内容不谋而合，核心就是：要显得宏大、平衡、静止和缓慢。

When I teach some of this, and it sounds like it dovetails a lot of what you're saying, it's all about being big, balanced, still, and slow is what it sounds like.

是的。

Yeah.

我再提一点，这稍微涉及一些人会觉得不舒服的领域，那就是我们如何使用空间，以及这传递了怎样的权力信号。当你观察高权力者和低权力者互动时，会注意到地位较高的人有权进入他人的社交空间，而这种行为并不具有互惠性。

One other thing I'll mention, you know, and this gets a little bit, more into the realm of things that some people feel uncomfortable with is Recognizing how we use space and what that conveys about power So one of the things if you watch high and low power people interact you'll notice is that higher ranking people, Kind of have the right to move into others Social bubbles in a way that is not reciprocal.

因此，当我们靠近他人、侵入他们的个人空间，甚至触碰他们的肩膀或物品时，这是一种非常具有攻击性的行为；而当我们后退、给予他人更多空间时，则传递出相反的权力感受。同样有趣的是，可以尝试让手臂离开身体——我在课堂上经常做这个练习。比如，指人，过去一年左右的新闻中，我们经常看到南希·佩洛西这样做。指人是一种极具攻击性和威慑力的行为，任何我们用胳膊侵入他人空间的做法都带有这种意味。

So whenever we You know stand closer to someone move in on them, Physically touch them on the shoulder or touch their things even, It's a very a kind of an aggressive way of behaving, and when we back away from people and give them a lot of space it kind of conveys the opposite The opposite, you know feeling and sense of power It's also interesting to just pay attention to an experiment with allowing your arms to leave your body So we do a lot of work on this in my class, but you know Pointing at someone for example, we saw a lot of this in the news in the last year or so with Nancy Pelosi you know Pointing at someone is a very aggressive very aggressive and very intimidating thing to do anytime we use our arms to Move in on someone else's space.

这会让人觉得有点威胁或令人不安。

There's something a little bit threatening or intimidating about it.

它暗示我们并不打算退让。

It suggests that we're not ready to back off.

因此，尝试主动进入他人的空间，是很有趣的实验。

So it's interesting to experiment with trying to move into other people's space.

我认为，对这些行为进行实验，对于帮助人们看到它们如何影响自己的权力感至关重要。

I think experimenting with all of these things is is really critical to helping people see what can happen for them in terms of their power.

很多人只是出于习惯行事，并没有真正尝试这些新的行为方式。

And a lot of people just act out of habit and don't actually try on some of these new things.

我知道在你教学和授课的过程中，你会让学生们实际去尝试这些方法。

I know in the work you do in the classes you teach, you have people, your students actually trying this.

我认为这是学习的好方法。

And I think that's a great way to learn.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这很有趣。

It's fascinating.

而且，你知道，人们常说，这感觉不自然。

And, you know, it's a little bit, you know, people say, oh, it feels unnatural.

直到你真正去做之前，都会觉得不真实。

It feels inauthentic until you do it.

然后你就会意识到，哦，你知道吗？

Then you realize, oh, you know what?

我内心其实有一部分是可以做到的，你知道吗？一旦你进入正确的心理状态，

There was a part of me that could do that, actually, you know Once you once you get yourself into the right headspace and

嗯，

yeah,

找到做这件事的正确理由，你知道，这才是我们成长的方式。

the right reason for doing it you know, this is how we grow

对吧？

right?

关键在于给自己许可去尝试。

It's all about giving yourself permission to try that.

谢谢。你对语言与权力有什么见解吗？

Thank you Do you have some insights on language in power?

比如，我注意到很多我称之为模糊表达的语言。

For example, I noticed a lot of what I call hedging language.

像‘有点’、‘ sort of’，还有‘我觉得’这样的词。

Things like kind of, sort of, and I think.

在我看来，这只会削弱人们的积极性，你对实际使用的词语以及它们与权力的关系有什么看法吗？

And to my mind this just reduces people's mojo any any thoughts on on the actual words we use and how it relates to

权力？绝对如此。

power Absolutely.

我从与演员合作中学到的一件事是，权威的说话方式是使用完整的句子——它们通常不是长句，但必须有清晰的开头和结尾，这是一种果断、权威地表达自我的方式，不会给讨论留下余地。你提到的那些模糊表达，比如‘kind of’、‘sort of’、‘I think’，都是口头上的小习惯，用来向他人表明我们不确定自己是否正确，愿意接受质疑或挑战，而这确实会削弱你的气场。

So one of the things that you know, I've learned from working with actors is that a way of an authoritative way of speaking is to speak in complete sentences they're often not long sentences, but they're sentences that have a clear beginning and a clear end point and It's part of expressing yourself in a decisive authoritative way that doesn't leave things open for discussion the hedging that you're talking about are Are all verbal kind of ticks or ways of showing people that we're not sure we're right and that we're open to being questioned or being challenged and It does undercut your mojo on the other hand.

我认为，在某些情况下，以较少的确定性和自信来表达自己，表现出某种谦逊，承认自己可能并非无所不知，反而能起到积极的化解作用。

I think there are situations where it can be Disarming in a positive way to express yourself with less certainty and less confidence and some you know sort of Humility or sense that you may not have all the answers

我认为你刚才提到的关键点在于这些表达的意图性。

I think what the key point that you just raised there is the purposefulness of them.

我认为很多人只是出于习惯而使用它们，并没有战略性地运用。

I think many people do them out of habit and they're not using them strategically.

但我认为很有趣的是，这些表达确实提供了战略性的机会。

But I think it's fascinating that that they do provide a strategic opportunity

同样，在

Again, in

我所教的课程中，很多内容都是关于将习惯转变为有意识的选择。

a lot of what we do in the classes I teach is talk about transitioning habits into choices.

在我看来，这听起来像是人们可以做出的一个明确选择，以帮助自己，而不是仅仅出于习惯而这样做。

And this to me sounds like a clear choice people could make to help them rather than just invoking it out of habit.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这是看待这个问题的一个很好的方式。

I think that's a great way to think about it.

我们马上回来，继续我们的对话。

We'll be right back to finish our conversation.

但在那之前，我们要先插播一段赞助商广告。

But first, we're going to take a quick break for a message from our sponsors.

这些赞助支持了我们节目的制作成本，让我们能够免费提供给您。

These sponsorships support the cost of making our show, allowing us to bring it to you free of charge.

嗨，我是马特。

Hi, Matt here.

随着一年接近尾声，我们许多人会停下脚步，反思，并思考来年想要讲述的故事。

As the year winds down, many of us take a moment to pause, reflect, and think about the stories we want to tell in the year ahead.

而分享这些想法最好的方式之一，就是在线上建立清晰而自信的形象。

And one of the best ways to share those ideas is by creating a clear, confident presence online.

本集《快速思考，明智表达》由Squarespace赞助播出，这是一站式平台，帮助你将想法变为现实。

This episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one platform that helps you bring your ideas to life.

如果你希望在新的一年里推出新事物，Squarespace能让这一切变得简单。

If you're hoping to launch something new in the new year, Squarespace makes it simple.

他们的Blueprint AI工具能帮助你在几步之内打造一个精致且个性化的网站。

Their blueprint AI tool helps you build a polished, customized site in just a few steps.

通过内置的电子邮件营销和分析功能，你可以在一个平台上与受众保持联系，并了解哪些内容最能引起共鸣。

And with built in email campaigns and analytics, you can stay connected with your audience and understand what's resonating all in one place.

因此，当你展望2026年时，不妨用Squarespace搭建一个网站，为你想法提供应有的空间和舞台。

So as you look ahead to 2026, consider giving your ideas the space and the stage they deserve with a website built on Squarespace.

立即前往squarespace.com/tfts免费试用。

Head to squarespace.com/tfts for a free trial.

当你准备发布时，使用代码 t f t s 可享受网站或域名首单 10% 的折扣。

And when you're ready to launch, use the code t f t s to save 10% off of your first purchase of a website or domain.

网址是 squarespace.com/tfts。

That's squarespace.com/tfts.

优惠代码：t f t s。

Offer code t f t s.

因此，在节目即将结束之际，我向这个播客的所有嘉宾都会提出同样的三个问题，希望你愿意回答这些问题。

So as we come to an end, I I ask all of the guests on this podcast the same three questions, and I hope you're game to to give me your answers for for these.

好的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

好的。

Alright.

如果你要把你收到过的最好的沟通建议浓缩成一个五到七个词的幻灯片标题，会是什么？

So if you were to capture capture the best communication advice you've ever received as a five to seven word presentation slide title, what would it be?

好的。

Alright.

让我想想我是怎么把这句话精简到五个到七个词的。

Let's see if I can remember how I got this down to five to seven words.

场景中最重要的那个人从来不是你。

The most important person in the scene is never you.

哦，我喜欢这个说法。

Oh, I like that.

哦，再详细说一点。

Oh, give give a little bit more.

只是想告诉你，这很有争议性。

Just to tell you It's provocative.

是的。

Yes.

哦，这太棒了。

Oh, it's so great.

所以，我曾听一位导演说过，当时她正在指导两名学生练习对话、朗读剧本，两人都非常紧张，不断看向她，想知道该怎么说才好，是否听起来自然。她先对两人说：‘这场戏里最重要的人是谁？’

So it's, it's something I heard a director say, when she was working with two students who were practicing a conversation, reading a script, and were both feeling very self conscious and Looking to her for direction about how they were supposed to say something and whether it sounded okay, and She said to one of them She said to both of them first said who's the most important person in the scene?

他们俩互相看着，试图弄清楚答案。

And they both were looking at each other and trying to figure it out.

虽然她先开口说话，但实际上他掌握着全部主动权。

Well, she starts talking first, but he actually has all the power.

然后她看着他们，看向那个男人，说：‘这场戏里最重要的人是她。’

And then she looked at them and she looked at the guy and she said, the most important person in the scene is her.

别总想着自己。

Move off yourself.

这场戏里最重要的人是她。

The most important person in the scene is her.

接着她看向那位女性，问：‘这场戏里最重要的人是谁？’

And then she looked at the woman and said, who's the most important person in the scene?

那位女性回答：‘是我？’

And the woman said, me?

她说，不，场景中最重要的那个人是他。

And she said, no, the most important person in the scene is him.

对。

Right.

别只想着自己。

Move off yourself.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

所以，对我来说，作为沟通者最有效的方法就是学会把注意力集中在对方身上。

So a, to me, it is the most useful thing you can do to be effective as a communicator is to learn to train your attention on The other person

对。

right

尽你所能让对方显得出色、聪明，并从互动中有所收获，而这样做的额外好处是，你根本不会有精力去想自己，也就没有恐惧了。

and to do everything you can to make the other person look good and Feel smart and get something out of the in of the interaction And what's the bonus of that is that we don't have any mental resources to think about yourself There's no fear.

没有焦虑。

There's no anxiety.

没有羞耻感，这些东西都不存在，你根本看不到观众。

There's no shame none of that stuff It's just you don't even see the audience

对。

Right.

在我们所做的所有战略沟通工作中，我们经常谈到要为你的观众服务。

In all the strategic communication work that we do, we talk a lot about being in service of your audience.

这关乎他们的需求，而不是你的需求，这一点很好地得到了印证。

It's about their needs, not about what you need, and that's echoed nicely.

所以让我继续，问你第二个问题。

So let me move on and ask you question number two.

你钦佩的沟通者是谁？为什么？

Who is a communicator that you admire and why?

我目前最欣赏的沟通者是安德鲁·科莫。

So my favorite communicator right now is Andrew Cuomo.

原因在于，我认为领导者在掌握权力和权威时最重要的一点是：认识到作为领导者，你最重要的职责是参与并成就他人的故事。我最近听到他说过——特雷弗·诺亚前几天问他：‘你为什么不去？’

And the reason for that is because, you know, one of the things that I think is most important for leaders to understand in terms of owning their power and authority is to Recognize that as a leader the person in position of power Your most important duty is to play your part in someone else's story And I've heard him say I just heard him say this, trevor noah asked him the other day, you know Why aren't you?

以一种让你明显表现出不满的方式回应总统。

Responding to the president in a way that you know conveys your irritation.

你为什么不去参与那些争斗？

Why aren't you engaging in the fights?

当他批评你的时候，你知道的。

You know with him when he's critical of you.

你为什么不回应？

Why don't you respond?

他说，我的感受与我如何表现无关，也不应该影响我的表现。我有一份工作要做，我的工作是管理纽约州，至于他具体用了什么词，我不太记得了，但我会说，他的职责是为他人提供安全感。他身上体现了许多这样的特质：如果你观察他的肢体语言，看他是如何讲话的，其实我们根本不需要听清他说什么，很多时候他自己也没完全清楚。

He said, my feelings have nothing to do with With how I show up and they should have nothing to do with how I show up I have a job to do and my job is to run the state of new york and To you know, I don't remember the words that he used but the words I would use is to say His job is to be a base of security for other people and what I and he just he embodies so many of those things like if you watch his Body language if you look at the way he speaks, he doesn't we don't actually need to know what he's saying And he doesn't even know that much a lot of times.

他没有答案，但他每天准时出现，穿着制服，胸前佩戴徽章，身后是旗帜，身边围绕着专家，以平静、克制、令人安心的方式讲话，这让我们知道他一切尽在掌握。在危机和混乱的时刻，这正是我们对领导者的要求。我非常钦佩他这样做，这对我来说是一个完美的典范——当然，他和我们其他人一样害怕，他的家人也生病了。

He doesn't have the answers But the way he shows up every day on time In his uniform with the seal with the flags behind him with the experts around him and just speaks in this calm controlled Reassuring way he's letting us know he's got this And in a time when there's a crisis and when there's chaos, this is what we need from our leaders And I just admire the way he's doing it to me It's perfect a example of you know, of course, he's terrified like the rest of us He's had sick family members.

他正在应对纽约的噩梦，有趣的是，当我观察他时，我意识到他并没有答案。

He's you know, he's dealing with a nightmare in new york and it's interesting because you real I realize when I watch him he He doesn't have the answers.

他不知道该做什么才是正确的，对于未来会发生什么，他和我们其他人一样没有更多把握，但他沟通的方式让我们感到可以放松，继续做我们该做的事，因为他表现得像个真正掌权的人。对我来说，这正是拥有权力与权威的完美体现。我乐于观看他的表现，也乐于知道世界各地的人都在观看他——不是因为他们需要知道他说了什么，而是因为他们需要看到他正在这样做。

He doesn't know what the right thing to do is He has no more certainty than the rest of us about what's coming but the way he communicates makes us feel like we can relax and Go about doing what we need to do because he's behaving like the person in charge so To me, it's a perfect example of what it looks like to own your power and authority and I am enjoying watching him and I'm enjoying knowing that People from all over the world are watching him not because they need to know what he's saying But because they need to see him doing what he's doing

对

Right

他理解这种表演的本质，我认为这很好地说明了为什么扮演角色对于有效运用权力至关重要。

and he understands the theater of it and, I think it's a great example of why the whole idea of acting and playing a role is important for using PowerWell.

我喜欢你用的这个词——‘表演的本质’。

I like that phrase you use, the theater of it.

我们的大部分沟通都是这种表演，而我们很多人却只关注一两个元素，忽略了整个正在上演的更大场景。

So much of our communication is that theater, and many of us fixate on just one or two elements instead of the broader scene that that's being played out.

谢谢你分享这一点。

So thank you for that.

我们最后一个问题。

Our final question.

成功沟通的前三个要素是什么？

What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

第一个是社会角色。

Social role is the first one.

嗯。

Mhmm.

知道你扮演的是什么角色。

Knowing what part you're playing.

视觉聚焦。

Visual focus.

第二个是能够将视觉焦点放在他人和你正在做的事情上，而不是盯着自己看；第三个是仁慈之心。

It's the second one being able to focus visually on Other people and the things that you're doing so that you're not watching yourself And the third one is generous heart.

哇。

Wow.

这真是对您教给我们所有关于权力以及如何拥抱权力的课程的精彩总结。

That was a great way to summarize, the lessons that you've taught all of us, about power and how to embrace our power.

黛布，非常感谢你。

Deb, thank you so much.

我非常感激你今天带来的见解和指导。

I really appreciate your insights and guidance today.

我的荣幸，马特。

My pleasure, Matt.

我很高兴你对此感兴趣，和你讨论这些话题非常愉快。

I'm so delighted you're interested, and it's been great to talk with you about these things.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我们都可以通过思考并利用自己拥有的力量，以及在与他人互动中展现的力量而受益。

We can all benefit from thinking about and leveraging the power we have and the power we bring to our interactions with others.

谢谢。

Thank you.

感谢您收听《快速思考，明智表达》播客的另一期节目。

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

本节目由斯坦福大学商学院制作。

Produced by Stanford University's Graduate School of Business.

如需更多信息和往期节目，请访问 gsb.stanford.edu，或在您常用的播客平台订阅我们的节目。

For more information and episodes, visit gsb.stanford.edu, or subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts.

最后，我们在社交媒体上的账号是 stanford.gsb。

Finally, find us on social media at stanford.gsb.

在结束之前，我想感谢你们的收听。

Before we wrap up, I just wanna say thank you for listening.

听到世界各地的人们如何在自己的生活中运用这些理念，真的让我深受感动。

It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives.

这激励了我以及所有制作这个节目的团队。

It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show.

如果你想获取更多集数和资源，欢迎关注、订阅并浏览往期对话。

If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations.

我们感谢你们对《Think Fast, Talk Smart》的支持。

We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.