226. 重塑自我：将不确定性转化为机遇

嗨，我是马特。我非常激动地宣布我们的下一场现场活动。欢迎加入“思维敏捷，表达流畅”社区，参与全新的现场录制。活动将于9月16日太平洋时间上午8点举行。我会先做一个题为《倾听》的简短演讲，随后接受全球观众的现场问答。

Hi, Matt here. I am super excited to announce our next live event. Join the Think Fast Talk Smart community for a new live recording. The event is on September 16 at 8AM Pacific. I'll deliver a short talk called Listen Up, followed by a live Q and A from our global audience.

部分高级会员将有机会通过视频实时向我提问，所有注册参与者也可在活动期间在线提交问题。不要错过这次绝佳机会，参与9月16日太平洋时间上午8点的“马特问答”现场活动。请务必在LinkedIn、YouTube或fastersmarter.iolive上报名。本集由Grammarly呈现。在“思维敏捷，表达流畅”，我们创作大量内容，从社交媒体帖子到通讯、嘉宾邀请到赞助提案。

A few premium members will have the opportunity to ask me their questions on video in real time, and all registered participants could submit questions online during the live event. Don't miss this opportunity to be part of this amazing live Ask Matt Anything on September 16 at 8AM Pacific. Be sure to sign up on LinkedIn, YouTube, or fastersmarter.iolive. This episode is brought to you by Grammarly. Here at Think Fast, Talk Smart, we create a lot of content from social media posts to newsletters, guest invitations to sponsorship proposals.

为了更高效地产出高质量内容，我们依赖Grammarly。Grammarly是必备的AI沟通助手，可提升生产力，让你更快完成所需写作，无论写什么、在哪里写。Grammarly帮助我们提高效率，并为各种信息找到恰当语气。我知道你也会觉得它非常有用。让Grammarly帮你处理繁琐事务，你就能专注于高影响力工作。

To help us be more effective and produce high quality content, we rely on Grammarly. Grammarly is the essential AI communication assistant that boosts productivity so you can get more of what you need done faster, no matter what or where you're writing. Grammarly helps us be more efficient and strike the right tone for our many messages. I know you'll find it very useful. Let Grammarly take the busy work off your plate so you can focus on high impact work.

免费下载Grammarly请访问grammarly.com/podcast。记住是grammarly.com/podcast。清晰来自行动。在职业道路上，我们都需要“随时起跳”。我叫马特·亚伯拉罕斯，在斯坦福商学院教授战略沟通。

Download Grammarly for free at grammarly.com/podcast. That's grammarly.com/podcast. Clarity comes from action. All of us need to be leap ready when it comes to our careers. My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.

欢迎来到“思维敏捷，表达流畅”播客。今天，我很高兴与阿兰娜·戈兰对话。阿兰娜是一位打破壁垒的领导者，也是Leap Academy的创始人，专注于韧性、重塑和打造组合式职业。她还主持着高评分的Leap Academy播客，我曾是那里的嘉宾。

Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Today, I'm excited to speak with Alana Golan. Alana is a barrier breaking leader and the founder of Leap Academy. She focuses on resilience, reinvention, and building portfolio careers. Alana also hosts the top rated Leap Academy podcast, where I have been a guest.

欢迎，阿兰娜。期待我们的对话。非常感谢你的到来。

Welcome, Alana. I look forward to our conversation. Thanks so much for being here.

哦，我很开心来到这里。谢谢你邀请我，马特。

Oh, I love being here. Thank you for inviting me, Matt.

好的。我们开始吧？

All right. Shall we get started?

走起。

Let's go.

你的职业经历丰富多元，包括企业高管、创业者、F-16飞行教官等等。我很好奇，这些经历之间有没有一条主线？是什么驱动了你过去和现在的选择？

So you have quite an amazing and eclectic career, including being a corporate executive, an entrepreneur, an F-sixteen flight instructor, and more. I'm curious, is there a through line across all that you've done in your career? And what's motivated you for what you're doing and have done?

我唯一看到的模式就是一点点打破壁垒。我非常执着。所以我不觉得自己很有天赋，但我非常执着。因此这是我引以为傲的模式。对我来说，很多都是在突破边界、看看什么是可能的，这也是我一生都在做的事情。

I would say the only pattern that I can see is a little bit of breaking barriers. I am very persistent. So I don't think I'm very talented, but I'm very persistent. So I think that's a pattern that I'm very proud of. And I think for me, a lot of it is pushing boundaries and seeing what's possible, which is what I've been doing all my life.

对于那些想在职业生涯中做出改变的人，无论是小改变还是大改变，你会给出什么建议和指导？

What advice and guidance do you provide to people looking to make a change in their career, whether small or big?

对我来说最大的问题是，我觉得自己在某种程度上是在梦游人生。事情还算过得去，好到足以让你继续这种“还可以”的状态。在外人看来，我拥有完美的人生：不错的职业、两个孩子、帅气的丈夫、一个家。

The big thing for me was I think that I was, to some extent, sleepwalking through life. To some extent, things were going okay. And they're okay enough for you to just continue with that okay status. And again, for everybody on the outside, I had a perfect life. I had a good career, two kids, beautiful husband, and a home.

对吧？理论上我应该幸福，可那还不够。显然，我需要一记重击打碎自尊才能真正醒来。但事后看来，我希望更多人能在人生中保持清醒。这也是LEAP学院的重点——过去它是“锦上添花”，但在变化速度如此之快的今天，它不再是“锦上添花”，而是“必需”。

Right? Like, theoretically, I should be happy, but it wasn't enough. Now, obviously I needed like a big shove through my ego to really wake up. But I think, you know, in hindsight, I wish more people would be more awake through their life. And I think this is the big thing for LEAP Academy because it used to be a nice to have, but at the pace of change, it's not a nice to have anymore, it's a must have.

你必须非常有目的、非常战略，始终为“跃迁”做好准备，对吧？始终清楚自己想往哪里去。顺便说，不一定非要离开现在的组织，而是思考：下一步我要什么？我想承担哪些责任？

And you need to be very intentional, very strategic, always be leap ready, right? Always know where you're trying to go. It could be in the same organization, by the way. I'm not saying always leave, but what's next for me? What responsibilities do I wanna take?

我想掌握哪些新技术？我的成长机会在哪里？所以要一直保持“跃迁就绪”，时刻清醒地问下一步是什么，并开始战略性地打造个人品牌，让自己更快抵达目标——这也是我职业生涯早期希望自己更重视的一点。

What other technologies do I wanna learn? What is my growth opportunity? So you always wanna be leap ready. You always wanna be very awake of what's next and to start being very strategic about how do I build my personal brand to take me there a lot faster, which is also a big thing that I wish I paid more attention to earlier in my career.

你提到了几个我想深入探讨的点。我喜欢“跃迁就绪”这个概念。我们做过几期节目，嘉宾说要打磨技能、保持连接、建立社交网络，这样当你准备动身时，一切都已打包好，关系也能帮上忙。所以“跃迁就绪”这个说法我很认同。我想分两条线聊。

You've said several things I wanna dive into there. So I like this notion of being leap ready. We've done a few other episodes where people have said you wanna hone your skills, be connected, and build a social network so that when you are ready to move, that you have everything, your bags are packed, you've got the connections that can help. So I like the idea of leap ready as a way of defining that. I'd like to pull on two different threads.

首先，请你分享哪些迹象和信号能帮助我们更“清醒”？换句话说，让人意识到“嘿，该动一动了”。然后我们再回来聊个人品牌，因为我认为在跃迁前建立的品牌会非常有帮助。先从信号说起：当我们考虑转型或跃迁时，应该留意哪些迹象？

First, I'd love for you to share what are the signs and signals that can help us become more awake in your terms? In other words, to say, hey, this is time to move on. And then I wanna come back after that and talk a little bit more about personal branding because I believe the brand you build in advance of a leap can be really helpful. So let's start with the signals and signs. What should we be looking for when it's time for us to consider a pivot or a leap?

这是个好问题，因为正如你所说，时机就是一切。但“跃迁就绪”并不意味着马上收拾行李走人。我还记得有位大老板曾问我：“你下一步想做什么？”——就在组织内部。我当时完全没头绪。

It's a great question because I think sometimes, like you said, timing is everything. And it doesn't mean that when you're leap ready, it doesn't mean that I need to pack my bags and go. But I still remember a time when one of my big bosses came to me and said, What do you wanna do next? Even within the organization, right? And I had no clue.

那其实是个绝佳机会。公司刚被收购，如果我当时有方向，本可以灵活转岗。所以对我来说，重点是培养一种习惯：不一定马上跳槽，但要始终有目的、有战略地规划职业，思考下一步、我想去哪里。我相信，在这个变化的时代，人们会多次转换职业，哪怕仍在同一家公司，也会换职责、换头衔，等等。

Now that was a beautiful opportunity. We were just acquired. I could probably have maneuvered anywhere if I only knew, right? So for me, a big part is I wanna get people into a habit of not necessarily looking for a leap, but always being intentional and strategic with their career and thinking what's next, where am I trying to go? And I do believe that in this space of change, people will change careers, even within, again, responsibilities, titles, whatever it is, right?

即使在同一家公司，他们每一两年就会变一次。所以我们将会看到前所未有的变化速度。因此，知道下一步是什么是首要的。现在说点别的，我觉得确实有一些迹象表明你更疲惫、更倦怠，或者没有原本那么快乐。对我来说，很多迹象是凌晨三点醒来，然后想，我应该拥有更多。

Even within the same organization, but they will change it every year or two. So we will see a pace of change that we've never seen anything like it. So knowing what's next is the first thing. Now unrelated, I think, there are definitely signs that either you're more tired, you're more burned out, you're not as happy as you could be. For me, a lot of it was waking up at three in the morning and saying, this should be more to me.

我在干什么？为什么我在做这些琐碎的事？但已经够好了，对吧？所以很多时候要倾听这些信号：是不是还有更多的可能？

What am I doing? Why am I peeling small? But it was good enough. Right? So I think a lot of times listen to the signs of, is there more?

我还要说的一点是，人生是分阶段的，不同阶段对你重要的东西也不同。所以首先要接受你正处在另一个阶段。可能你更在意金钱，也可能更在意成长、机会、可能性、名声，或者你在意影响力或平衡。你不可能拥有一切。

And the other thing that I'll say is life is in phases and in different phases, different things will be important for you. So the very first thing is to be okay with the fact that you're in a different phase. And it could be that you care more about money. It could be that you care more about growth and opportunity and possibilities and fame, or you care about impact or balance. And you're not gonna have it all.

我不相信“你能拥有一切”的神话。你最终会拥有一切，只是不会同时拥有。所以你要选出当下对你最关键的几项，其余的就得先放一放，对吧？它们会退居次要。只要你清楚此刻什么才是真正关键的，做出那些跳跃就容易多了。

I don't believe in the myth. You're gonna have it all, just not at the same time. So you're gonna pick a couple that are critical for you knowing that the rest will be a little bit compartment, right? Like they're gonna take a back seat. And as long as you're intentional about what's really critical for me at that moment, now it's easier to make those leaps.

但在这种变化速度下，我们不该再盯着某个职业方向，因为大多数人不会为接下来二十年做决定。我们只是在相对短期内做决定。所以如果我们把它当成一次职业实验，其实就能大大减轻“要定终身”的焦虑。

But at the pace of change, we shouldn't be looking at a career direction because most of us are not gonna be deciding on something for the next twenty years. We are deciding on something in a relatively short term. So if we're gonna look at it as a career experiment, it's actually freeing up a lot of the anxiety of deciding something very big.

我很喜欢把它框成“实验”这个想法，而且视野不是二三十年那么长的职业，而是更短。我也喜欢持续扫描、留意你所在行业或感兴趣领域动态的做法，这样你就能做出更明智的选择。最后一点也很重要：倾听自己的感受，对吧？如果你半夜醒来，或者没有感受到你想要的满足感，这些都是很好的信号。在我们谈品牌问题之前，如果有人觉得自己错过了机会，或者职业生涯已经走得太远而无法重新开始，你会对他们说什么？

I really like the idea of framing it as an experiment and the horizon is not twenty, thirty year career, it's shorter. I do like this idea of constantly scanning and being aware of what's going on in your industry or in the areas that you're interested in so that, again, you can make a more intelligent choice. And then finally, think so important is listen to how you're feeling, right? And if you are waking up in the middle of the night or you're not feeling that level of fulfillment that you'd like to feel, those are good signs and signals. Before we get to the branding question, what if somebody feels like they've missed their chance or they're too far along in their careers to start over?

你会怎么回应？我们已经聊了是什么可以引发转变，但我们中有些人已经干这行很久了。我们是不是已经错过了船？

What would you say to them? So we've talked about what can initiate a change, but some of us have been around a long time doing what we do. Have we missed the boat?

在这个变化的时代，我相信我们会看到越来越多所谓的“组合式职业”。我认为Leap Academy可能是唯一真正教这个的地方。我相信人们会开始——即使他们有一份稳定的工作，这确实很方便——但他们也会开始，比如做顾问、加入董事会、做公开演讲、也许开个小公司、再投点资。他们会开始拥有多种收入来源，这样总有安全网，而且生活更有趣。

In this era of change, we will see, I believe, a lot more of what we call portfolio careers. And I do believe that Leap Academy is probably the only one that really teaches that. And I do believe that people will start, even if they have one stable job, which I do believe is actually really handy, but they're gonna start, I don't know, advising and sitting on boards and doing some public speaking and maybe open this business and maybe investing a little bit. Like they're gonna start having these multiple income streams so that there's always a safety net. And it's just a lot more interesting.

生活变得更精彩。所以我觉得这有点像一种结合，马特。

Life just gets more exciting. So I think there's a little bit of a combination, Matt.

你能简单描述一下什么是组合式职业，以及我们该如何着手建立吗？

Can you briefly describe what a portfolio career is and how we can go about building one?

所以组合式职业本质上就是多重收入流。我认为在当今世界，创造收入的选择非常多。再说一次，有时重点在于收入，但有时更在于接触新事物、做志愿者或加入你关心的董事会。或者说不一定是收入，而是各种“项目”。当今真正有趣的是，我们要把它和个人品牌联系起来，因为有时重点在于个人品牌，而非随之而来的实际金钱。

So portfolio career is essentially just multiple streams of income. And I think in today's world, there's just a lot of options to create income these days. And again, sometimes it's more about the income, but sometimes it's more about exposure to new things or volunteering or sitting on specific boards that you care about. Or like it's not necessarily income, it's like ventures, if you will. And what's really interesting in today's world, and we're gonna tie it to personal branding, because sometimes it is more about the personal branding than the actual money that comes with it.

但如果你参与某些事情，它实际上可以在你的个人品牌上形成非常漂亮的滚雪球效应，带来更多机会、改变他人对你的看法等等。这大概是人们能做的最有力的事情之一：你拥有一个经典的组合矩阵，对吧？比如你在讲课、有本书、有播客，你参与了所有这些事。但美妙的是，它们都在同一个大伞下，让你成为更强大的沟通者、所在领域的思想领袖，更容易被邀请参加活动，对吧？于是它就创造出这种美妙的协同效应。

But if you get involved with certain things, it can actually create a really beautiful snowball on your personal brand, the opportunities that come your way, how you're perceived, etcetera. This is probably one of the more powerful things that somebody can do is you have a classic portfolio mat, right? Like you're lecturing, you have a book, you have a podcast, like you have all these things that you're involved with. But the beautiful thing is they're all under the same umbrella of making you an even stronger communicator, more of a thought leader in your field, more invited to things, right? So now it creates this beautiful synergy.

所以，如果你能打造这把大伞品牌，把这些事情串联起来并形成一个滚雪球效应，这大概是你能为个人品牌、为即将到来的机会以及为你打开的各种大门所做的最强有力的事情之一。

So if you can create this umbrella brand and tie these things together and create a snowball, it's probably one of the strongest things that you can do to your personal brand and to the opportunities and what kind of things will open your way.

我觉得有件事对我帮助很大，也听到你提到，就是要有清晰的主线或指导原则。我做的所有事都基于帮助人们磨练并提升沟通技巧。我实现这一目标的方式各不相同：有时在课堂，有时通过播客，有时通过写作。但归根结底，它们都指向同一个目标。

I think one of the things that has helped me, and I heard you mention it, is that having some clear through line or some guiding principle. I mean, everything I do is predicated on trying to help people hone and develop their communication skills. And the way I deploy that varies. Sometimes it's in the classroom, sometimes it's through a podcast, sometimes through writing. But all of it is really striving for the same thing.

对我来说，收入很重要，得付账单。但更重要的是能够产生影响和影响力。我新命名的组合式职业——我之前没这么想过——其设计初衷就是去影响和感染他人。感谢你帮我们厘清这一点。我们其实都可以打造组合式职业，这个想法非常重要。

And for me, income is important, need to pay the bills. But for me, it's just the ability to impact and influence as well. And my newly named portfolio career, I hadn't thought of it that way, is really designed to help influence and impact people. And thank you for helping us understand that. And this idea that we can all build a portfolio career is really important.

所以我想把话题拉回到沟通上，因为我们已经稍微触及了品牌。当我转行时，当我从高科技跳到高中教书，这对我来说是一次大跳跃。很多人会说，你为什么这么做？看起来很奇怪。或者背后有什么原因？

So I wanna bring this back to communication because we've flirted with branding a little bit. When I switched careers, when I made a leap from high-tech to teaching high school, it was a big leap for me. And many people were like, why are you doing that? That seems strange. Or what's behind it?

对于人们如何沟通自己的转型、自己的跳跃，你有什么建议，让它讲成一个连贯的故事，让别人能够理解？我还要把问题延伸一下，不只是实际的跳跃，还包括当你构建组合式职业时，你也必须能够把它说清楚。你如何思考这些选择的沟通和品牌化？有没有我们可以遵循的最佳实践？

What advice do you have to help people communicate their pivots, their leaps, so that it tells a coherent story that helps others understand? And I'm gonna extend the question, not just to the actual leap, but as you build out your portfolio career, you have to be able to articulate that as well. How do you think about the communication and branding around those choices and are there best practices we can follow?

这是个很棒的问题。我想它有几个组成部分，马特，因为我认为第一点是在内部，因为你首先要说服自己，对吧？当你对自己想做的事内心平和时，说服别人就容易得多。我觉得困难通常出现在你还在摸索的时候，然后有人想帮你，想阻止你犯错。

That's such a great question. And I think it will have a few components, Matt, because I think the very first one is internally because you wanna convince yourself first, right? Because when you're in peace with what you're trying to do, it's a lot easier to convince others. I think usually the hard parts come when you're still trying to figure this out. And then there's people that are trying to help you and trying to prevent you from doing the mistakes.

这往往会让你卡住，但先找到内心的平静，明确什么模式适合你。你想因什么而被记住？再次强调，你越把它当成一次实验，这个决定就没那么重大，也就没那么可怕。然后关键就是以愿景来沟通，同时讲清楚“为什么是你、为什么是这个、为什么是此刻”的模式。

And it has a tendency to keep you stuck, but find your peace in what is the right pattern for you. What do you wanna be known for? Again, the more you think about it as an experiment, it's not as big of a decision to make. So it's not as scary. And then it's really about communicating it from the vision, but also the pattern of why you, why this, why now?

我们聊过结构，对吧？比如，为什么此刻这对我来说是正确的？为什么是我、为什么是这个、为什么是此刻？你越能用非常简洁的方式结构化，别人就越容易理解：好的，她搞清楚了。而这正是我们想要达到的效果。

Which we talked about structures, right? Like, why is this the right thing for me right now? And why me, why this right now? Then the more you can structure it in a very concise way, it basically lets people understand, okay, she got this. And this is what we were trying to get.

因为同样，你很难得到非常扎实的建议。所以，如果有人曾经去过你想去的地方，他们会对你说“不”。通常，给你建议的是那些想保护你安全的人。所以，面对这些人，我们并不是要听取他们的建议，而是想让他们看到我们的平静、想法和愿景，并告诉他们，我们的决定是基于希望和梦想，而不是恐惧和怀疑。

Because again, it's very rare that you will get a very solid advice. So somebody will say no to you if they've been where you're trying to go. Usually you're going to get it from the people who are trying to keep you safe. So for those people, we're not trying to get their advice. We're trying to show our peace and idea and our vision and to explain to them that we're making decisions based on hope and dreams, not necessarily fear and doubt.

只要你能够做出这样的决定，一切都会改变。

And as long as you can make those decisions, everything changes.

里面有很多真知灼见。首先，你必须先让自己清楚。你得明白为什么是这个、为什么是现在、是什么在驱动我。如果你自己都没把话说清楚，就很难向别人传达。还要提醒自己，你沟通的对象是在乎你的，他们真的想保护你。

Lots of really insightful tidbits there. So the first and foremost, you need to get clear with yourself. You have to understand why this, why now, what's motivating me. So it's hard to communicate something that you haven't clearly articulated to yourself. And this notion of reminding yourself that the people you're communicating to care for you, and they really want to keep you safe.

所以，让他们明白你所做的转型、改变或跳跃是你希望和梦想的一部分，我认为这是开启沟通的好方式。当然，当你谈到结构化方法时，我听得特别开心。我喜欢这个“为什么是这个、为什么是我、为什么是现在”的框架，这是包装你转型故事的好方式，也能帮你定位个人品牌。谢谢你用如此简洁的方式分享了这么多洞见。

And so helping them understand that the pivot, the change, the leap that you're making is part of your hopes and your dreams, I think is a wonderful way to initiate the communication. And of course, you're music to my ears when you talk about a way to structure it. And I like this, why this, why me, why now? That's a beautiful way to package up your story of the pivot to change the leap, but also to help you position your brand. So thank you for sharing so many insightful bits of information in such a concise way.

我从你身上学到了很多。你谈到的一个让我特别有共鸣的概念，就是在重塑自我时要清晰。你帮助人们弄清楚下一步真正想做什么的方法是什么？我们聊过如何判断时机成熟，但你如何真正找到重塑自我的清晰方向？你有什么具体建议吗？

I've listened and learned a lot from you. And one of the things you talk about that really hit home for me is this notion of clarity in reinvention. What's your approach to helping someone figure out what they really want to do next? We've talked about how to figure out when the time is ready for that next thing, but how do you really find that clarity about how you wanna reinvent yourself? Do you have some specific advice?

首先我想说，Matt，没有清晰方向大概是我人生中最艰难的时期之一。听起来很奇怪，因为你已经成功了，为什么还会被击倒？但我必须说，对于那些一直知道下一步该做什么的高成就者和积极进取的人来说，这段时期非常令人不安。我曾在那个“肥皂箱”上站了很久。

First of all, I will just say, Matt, that not having my clarity was probably one of the hardest times in my life. And it sounds like weird because you've already been successful. Why would that take you down? And I have to say that for high achievers and driven people that kind of always knew what's next, this was a very alarming time for me. And I was actually in that soapbox for a while.

我认为这正是创办 Leap Academy 的一大动力，希望能用更快、更有工程化的方式帮助更多人找到下一步。但总的来说，我想说，成功会留下线索。如果你愿意回顾人生中的各种线索，从童年到成年，很多时候并不是学校里学到的技能，而是模式。你谈到模式，对吧？更多的是模式，是转变。

And I think that was a big calling for Leap Academy and to try to help more people to figure out what's next in a lot faster and a lot more engineered way. But in the general sense, what I would say is success leaves clues. And if you're willing to look at the different clues in your life, and that can be all the way from childhood and adulthood, it's many times not necessarily the skills, the learnable skills in school, but it's more the patterns. You talk about patterns, right? It's more the patterns, is that transitions.

你什么时候得过奖？别人为什么对你感兴趣？你在什么时候感到特别快乐、充满活力和兴奋？所以我们寻找这些线索，然后开始——再次强调——做实验。当你把这些看作小实验时，它们就不会成为沉重的决定，因为你不需要做一个大决定。

When did you get awards? What are the people intrigued by you? Where did you feel so happy and energized and excited? And so we look at these clues and start creating, again, experiments. And when you look at these things as little experiments, they're not heavy on a decision because you don't need to make a big decision.

你需要做的是，我们称之为五天、五周、五个月。你只需要决定，如果这是我生命中的五天去思考它，对吧？这就是你要做的决定。然后，这是否值得我花五周去小范围实验，等等。这样做决定就容易多了。

You need to make, we call it the five days, five weeks, five months. You just need to decide if this was five days of my life to think about it, right? That's all you need to decide. And then is this worth five weeks of experiment a little bit and etcetera. So it's a lot easier to make those decisions.

认真听听别人对你说的话。很多时候，这些就是你最好的线索。他们给你写了评价，他们发了感谢短信。有时直接问他们：“你觉得和我一起工作最吸引你的地方是什么？”

Really listen to what other people are telling you. In many cases, these are the best clues that you have. They wrote a review about you. They sent you a thank you text. Sometimes ask them like, What's the most intriguing piece for you to work with me?

你会听到你甚至从未想到过的东西，我觉得那里也藏着很多线索。对我来说，很多灵感来自在全球最顶尖的创业加速器里做导师，比如谷歌、奇点大学、卡内基梅隆等等。当你观察初创公司时，会发现他们也得做同样的事：面前是无限的机会高原，方向多得让人无从下手。

And you'll hear things that you didn't even think of. And I think there's a lot of clues there as well. And so for me, a lot of the ideas came from mentoring in some of the biggest startup accelerators in the world, like Google and Singularity University and Carnegie Lamella and etcetera. And what's interesting when you look at startups, they need to do the same thing. There's a plateau of opportunities and it's endless.

我到底该往哪个方向走？其实关键在于这些高度工程化、结构化的实验，它们能带来清晰。但Matt，还有一点非常重要：清晰来自行动，而不仅仅是空想。我们总想先设计好、先决定再前进，那其实非常可怕。

Which direction should I go after? And it's really more about these very engineered, structured experiments that will give that clarity. But I will also say, Matt, which is really important, the clarity comes from action, not just thinking about it. And I think we try to engineer it away or decide ahead of moving forward. And that's actually really scary.

它几乎像一座监狱，让我们无法迈步。所以清晰其实来自动能。Leap Academy的核心就是先给人们动能，突然之间清晰就来了，因为有时候你根本不知道自己会走到哪。我敢说你当初也没想到自己会有播客、有书、有TEDx，还能影响数百万人。你并没有完整配方，但有了动能，一切就会咔哒到位。

And it creates almost like a prison and we can't move forward. So the clarity actually comes from the momentum. And I think the big thing in Leap Academy is we give people momentum and suddenly the clarity kicks in because sometimes you don't even know. Like I'm sure you didn't know you're gonna have a podcast and a book and a thing and a TEDx that has millions of people. Like you don't have all the recipe, but with the clarity things click in.

我很喜欢“通过世界给你的反馈来学习如何重塑自我、该专注什么”这个想法。同伴的评价、获得的荣誉，我们在思考重塑时容易只向内看，而让外部世界——别人怎么评价我们、如何认可我们的工作——成为指引，真的很重要。还有“清晰来自行动、来自实验”这个概念，实验不必很长，可以非常短。

I really like the idea that a way to learn about reinvention and what you should be focusing on is through the feedback the world gives you. So your peers, your accolades, we can become very internal focused when we're thinking about reinventing ourselves and letting the external world, what people are saying about us, how they're honoring our work, be a guide is really important. And this notion that clarity comes from action, comes from the experiments. And the experiments don't have to be super long. They can be very short.

我完全同意你说的：我们可能因为过度思考而阻止自己行动，真的得先动手，才能冒出清晰的点子。谢谢你的分享。我们马上回来，先插播一段赞助商信息。

I totally hear you when you say we actually can prevent ourselves from taking action because of all of our thinking. And really you have to do to get some clear ideas. Thank you for that. We'll be back in just a moment. But first, let's take a quick break for a message from our sponsors.

他们的支持让我们能继续为你带来节目。《Think Fast Talk Smart》由BetterHelp呈现。我们都干过这种事：跟咖啡师、理发师，甚至洗手间遇到的陌生人讨生活建议。虽然聊日常很轻松，但当你真正需要关于关系、焦虑、抑郁或其他临床问题的帮助时，你得找真正的专业人士。别随便抓一个人，就去BetterHelp在线找有执照的治疗师吧。

Their support helps us bring you our show. Think Fast Talk Smart is brought to you by BetterHelp. We've all done it before, turning to our barista, hairdresser, or random stranger in the bathroom for life advice. As easy as they are to talk with about everyday topics, when you're looking for real help about relationships, anxiety, depression, or other clinical issues, you need a real professional. Instead of turning to someone randomly, seek guidance from a credentialed therapist online with BetterHelp.

我认为每个人都应该有一个教练、治疗师或导师，在艰难时刻拉你一把。BetterHelp是全球最大的在线心理治疗平台，已服务超过五百万人，能提供多元专业背景的心理健康专家。上BetterHelp找到适合你的那一位。听众首月可享九折，网址：betterhelp.com/thinkfast，记得是betterhelp.com/thinkfast。

I believe everyone should have a coach, therapist or guide who can help when the going gets tough. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, having served over 5,000,000 people globally, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one for you with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/thinkfast. That's betterhelp, help.com/thinkfast.

嗨，我是Matt。我想给你推荐我必听的播客《Hidden Brain》。这档节目专门探讨“我们为何如此行事”。如果你曾问：我该怎么摆脱停滞？或者，为什么我越努力追求快乐却越不快乐？那你一定得听听《Hidden Brain》。

Hi, Matt here. I want to tell you about a podcast that I always listen to. It's called Hidden Brain. Hidden Brain is a show that's all about why we do what we do. If you've ever asked questions like, How can I get unstuck?

每一集，我的好友主持人Shankar Vedantam都会基于研究，带你更好理解自己和身边的人。去你常用的播客平台，发现并唤醒你的“隐藏大脑”吧。Elana，这期太精彩了。

Or why am I less happy the harder I try to be happy? You should definitely check out Hidden Brain. In every episode, my friend and host Shankar Vendatten explores research based ideas that will help you to better understand yourself and the people around you. Listen and discover your hidden brain wherever you get your podcasts. Elana, this has been fantastic.

结束前，我通常会问三个问题：一个专门为你定制，另外两个我问所有嘉宾。你准备好了吗？当然。作为转型、跳跃、换跑道的高手，我好奇，你看到自己下一步会是什么？

Before we end, I like to ask three questions. One I create just for you, and then the other two I ask to everybody. Are you ready for that? Of course. So as the expert of pivoting, leaping, changing careers, I'm curious, what do you see next for you?

你对下一次飞跃有什么想法吗？

Do you have some ideas about what the next leap will be?

我确实有一些想法，因为我的书正在撰写最后阶段。所以有一本叫《飞跃的艺术》的书，目前正处于提案阶段，很快就会出版。我真心相信，在当今世界，我们正面临一个悬崖，成千上万的人需要重塑自我。现在有很多再培训学校，但很少有公司真正教人如何重塑自我并打造组合式职业。

I do just because my book is in the making and it's at the final stages. So there's a The Art of Leaping book that is like we're in the book proposal phase. So it is coming. I truly believe that in today's world, we're in front of a cliff of millions of people that will need to reinvent themselves. And I think there are a lot of reskill schools, but not a lot of companies that teach reinvention and creating portfolio career.

我们只需要足够快地成长，才能帮助那些需要我们帮助的数百万人。

And we just need to grow fast enough to be able to help the millions of people that will need us.

我喜欢“帮助人们重塑而非仅仅再培训”这个想法。恭喜你，写书是件大事，既有趣又辛苦。第二个问题：你欣赏哪位沟通者？为什么？

I love that idea of helping people reinvent rather than just reskill. And congratulations. Writing a book is a big deal, and it can be a lot of fun, and it's certainly a lot of work. Question number two. Who is a communicator that you admire and why?

我很欣赏西蒙·西内克，他的沟通方式非常温和、清晰，我觉得我也能从他身上学到很多。

I do love Simon Sinek and how he communicates in the sense that he's very soft, articulate. And I think I have a lot to learn from that too.

我同意西蒙·西内克是非常高效的沟通者。我喜欢你既欣赏他的优点，也注意到你们之间的不同——我们都必须找到自己的风格。好，最后一个问题：成功沟通配方的前三种原料是什么？

I agree that Simon Sinek is a very effective communicator. And I like that you are appreciating the things he brings, but also noting the things that the ways in which you're different, and we all have to find our own style. Alright. Final question. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

我会说：心境平和，也就是清楚自己想说什么，并且敢于说出来；了解你的听众，非常关键；嗯，我好像在重复你的话，因为还要组织表达方式。我有点尴尬，想说点不一样的，但这些确实完全同意。

I will say peace of mind, knowing what you wanna say basically, and being okay with saying it. Knowing your audience, very critical. I mean, kind of I'm repeating you because structuring the way you're saying it. Like, I feel embarrassed because I was like, why could I say different? But these are, like, totally agree.

所以我想我就是在重复你说的话。

So I think I'm repeating what you're saying.

有些确实是真理，比如结构、了解听众等等。你补充的一点我觉得非常重要：传递信息时要有自信，但对你所传递的内容本身也要有自信。你在其中一个要素里强调了这一点——必须对自己所说的内容感到自在。这很重要，对自己说的话要有信心。

There are some truisms, and I think structure, knowing your audience, etcetera. The piece you added that I think is really important for everyone to consider is there's confidence in how you deliver information, but there's also confidence in what you are delivering. And you highlighted that in one of your ingredients saying you have to be comfortable with what you're saying. And that's important. That's important to feel confident in what you're saying.

当然，这并不是说不能修改或调整，但我感谢你为我们所说的内容增添了这一层细微差别。阿兰娜，你分享了许多宝贵的建议，让我们意识到我们所做的飞跃都是实验，清晰感来自于我们采取的行动和实验，最终我们都需要让自己“准备好飞跃”，并准备好向周围的人传达我们正在做或计划做的事情。非常感谢你的时间。

Now that's not to say that you can't change it and make adjustments, but I appreciate you adding that little nuance to what we say. We have to be confident in it. Well, Alana, you shared so many valuable tips. You helped us to realize that the leaps that we make are experiments, that clarity comes through the actions and experiments that we run, and ultimately that we all need to be helping ourselves by being leap ready and being ready to communicate what it is we do or are planning to do to those around us. Thank you so much for your time.

谢谢你，Matt。这次访谈非常有趣，你是一位很棒的采访者。非常感谢。

Thank you, Matt. This was so fun and you're such a great interviewer. Thank you so much.

感谢您收听《Think Fast, Talk Smart》播客的另一期节目。想了解更多关于职业转型的内容，请收听第187期嘉宾Dory Clark和第147期嘉宾Whitney Johnson的节目。本期节目由Katherine Reed、Ryan Campos和我——Matt Abrahams共同制作。音乐来自Floyd Wonder，感谢Podium Podcast Company的支持。请在YouTube及您收听播客的任何平台找到我们。

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more about careers and pivoting, please listen to episode one eighty seven with Dory Clark and episode one forty seven with Whitney Johnson. This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder with thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

记得订阅并给我们评分。同时在LinkedIn和Instagram上关注我们。访问fastersmarter.io获取深入的英语学习内容以及我们的新闻简报。欢迎考虑我们的高级服务，享受加长的DeepThinks单集、Ask Matt Anything等更多内容，请访问fastersmarter.iopremium。我想与大家分享，过去几个月里，我有幸与全球听众交流，了解播客对他们产生的影响。

Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. And check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive English language learning content, and our newsletters. Please consider our premium offering for extended DeepThinks episodes, Ask Matt Anythings, and much more at fastersmarter.iopremium. I wanted to share with you that over the past few months, I've had the amazing opportunity of talking to listeners across the globe about the impact the podcast has had on them.

我很高兴看到大家把节目中讲到的原则和概念应用到生活中，并因此产生了积极影响，这令人备受鼓舞。代表所有参与制作节目的同事，我们感谢大家的支持。我们期待为您带来新单集、新技巧和更深入的知识，也希望能继续得到您的支持。

I love learning how people are applying the principles and concepts that we cover on the podcast and the impact that it has had on their lives. It is truly inspiring. Speaking on behalf of all of us that bring you the show, we thank you for your support. We look forward to bringing you new episodes, new techniques, and deeper knowledge. And we ask for your support.

制作并播出这档节目需要投入大量时间和精力。请继续把您的想法发给我们。如果条件允许，欢迎加入我们的高级会员。谢谢大家，让我们共同期待接下来的200期节目。

It takes time and effort to put this show on the air. Please keep your ideas coming. And if you can, we'd love for you to join our premium. Thank you, and here's to another 200 episodes.