272. 说点让人记住的：难忘沟通的神经科学

你好。

Hi.

我是马特。

Matt here.

想象一下，

Imagine what it

如果你能在重要场合的沟通中减少紧张感，变得更加自信，会是什么样子。

would be like if you could feel less nervous and more confident in your high stakes communication.

好吧，你可以做到。

Well, you can.

通过全新的免费三天“冷静自信沟通”挑战，你将与来自全球的人们一起学习简单而有效的策略，以管理焦虑、放松身心、重新调整你的思维。

With a new free three day Communicate with Calm Confident quest, You'll join people from around the globe to learn simple, proven strategies to manage anxiety, calm your body, and reframe your thoughts.

在三月，我们将在线相聚，讨论当天的挑战任务。

On March, we will join together live and discuss our quest task for the day.

如果你无法实时参与，也没关系。

If you can't join live, no worries.

你可以稍后观看视频回放。

You can watch the video recording later.

前往 fastersmarter.io/learning 注册这个免费的探索课程和学习社区访问权限。

Go to fastersmarter.io/learning to sign up for this free quest and learning community access.

再次提醒，是 fastersmarter.io/learning。

Again, that's fastersmarter.io/learning.

接下来让我们听一段赞助商的广告。

Now a word from one of our sponsors.

他们的支持使我们能够免费为您提供优质内容。

Their support allows us to bring you quality content free of charge.

你好。

Hi.

我是Matt。

Matt here.

职业辅导通常可以通过我们的工作场所获得，这可能是一个很好的起点。

Career coaching often comes through our workplaces, which can be a great starting point.

但有时候，你希望有空间专注于自己的优先事项，而不是公司的要求。

But sometimes you want space to focus on your priorities, not your organization.

这就是strawberry.me的用武之地。

That's where strawberry.me comes in.

这是你自己选择的职业辅导。

It's career coaching you choose for yourself.

你只需回答几个简单问题，系统就会为你匹配一位经过审核的教练，而且在很多情况下，你可以在24小时内就开始。

You answer a few quick questions, get matched with a vetted coach, and in many cases, you can start within twenty four hours.

你可以选择教练，设定自己的目标，并坦诚地讨论真正重要的事情，无论是晋升、转行、职业倦怠，还是离职。

You choose the coach, you decide the goal, and you get to talk honestly about what actually matters, whether that's a promotion, a pivot, burnout, or even leaving.

没有人力资源介入，没有绩效考核的视角，如果觉得不合适，你可以随时更换教练。

There's no HR involved, no performance review lens, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch coaches.

我欣赏的是这种自主感。

What I appreciate is the sense of agency.

当你感到停滞不前时，等待通常无济于事。

When you're feeling stuck, waiting rarely helps.

如果你觉得有些事情需要改变，你不需要获得许可才能去探索。

If you've been thinking something needs to change, you don't need permission to explore that.

前往 strawberry.me/tfts。

Go to strawberry.me/tfts.

这是一种以你为中心的辅导。

It's coaching focused on you.

把它想象成你职业生涯的治疗。

Think of it as therapy for your career.

为了应对观众不可避免地遗忘你的内容，你需要明确你的10%核心信息。

To combat the inevitable forgetting of your content that your audience will experience, you need to define your 10% message.

我叫马特·阿布拉姆斯，在斯坦福大学商学院教授战略沟通。

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.

欢迎收听《快速思考，明智表达》播客。

Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

今天，我非常高兴能与我的朋友西蒙对话。

Today, I am really excited to speak with my friend, Simon.

卡门是一名认知神经科学家，同时也是作家，

Carmen is a cognitive neuroscientist, author,

她还是一名演讲者，研究方向是

and speaker who studies the way

人类大脑如何处理并留存信息。

the human brain processes and retains information.

她的工作致力于帮助职场人士打造能够影响决策与行为的难忘体验。

Her work focuses on helping professionals create memorable experiences that influence decision making and behavior.

她是《难以忽视：打造令人印象深刻的内容以影响决策》一书的作者。

She is the author of Impossible to Ignore, Create Memorable Content to Influence Decisions.

欢迎你，卡门。

Well, welcome, Carmen.

非常高兴能邀请到你来做客。

I am so excited to have you here.

你能来参加这个节目真是太好了。

It's about time you've been on the show.

我们认识几十年了，非常高兴你能来。

We've known each other for decades, and I'm really excited to have you here.

非常感谢你的邀请，大家好。

Thank you so much for inviting me, and welcome, everyone.

是的。

Yeah.

那我们开始吧。

So let's get started.

好的。

Yes.

在你的研究和著作《无法忽视》中，你探讨了注意力与记忆之间的区别。

In your research in your book, Impossible to Ignore, you discuss the difference between attention and memory.

你进一步指出，记忆是注意力的副产品。

You go further to say that memory is a byproduct of attention.

沟通者该如何设计一条信息，使其不仅在当下被体验，还能结构化地创造持久的记忆，从而影响未来的决策和行为？

How can a communicator design a message that's not just experienced in the moment, but is structured to create lasting memory that influences future decisions and behavior?

这是一个有力且深刻的问题，因为想要在别人的脑海中留下记忆痕迹，表面上听起来非常好且高尚。

That's a strong question and a very deep one because to aspire at creating memory traces in somebody else's brain, it sounds very good and noble on the surface.

但实际做起来并不容易，因为我们几乎和经历生活一样快地遗忘生活。

Not so easy to do in practice because we forget our lives almost as quickly as we live them.

随着我年纪增长，确实如此。

More so as I get older, for sure.

对我们所有人来说都是一样的。

It's the same for all of us.

25岁以后，这就变成了一场下坡战。

After the age of 25, it's a downhill battle.

这并不是不可能的。

It's not that it's impossible.

我们必须更努力地先去专注，从而能记得更好一点。

We have to try harder to first pay attention, as a result of that, remember a little bit better.

要集中注意力并不容易。

It's not easy to pay attention.

注意力是大脑中最被误解的认知过程之一。

Attention is one of the most misunderstood cognitive processes in the brain.

但好消息是，我们并非只以一种方式集中注意力。

The good news though is that we don't pay attention just in one way.

我们以多种方式集中注意力。

We pay attention in various ways.

我们拥有多个注意力系统。

We have multiple attention systems.

因此，我们可以向观众分享的一个实用指导原则是：当你思考注意力时——无论是你自己的注意力，还是如何吸引他人的注意力——请从这两个维度来理解。

So one practical guideline that we can share with our audiences is as you think about attention, your own or attracting other people's, think of it in terms of these two dimensions.

一个是你的注意力指向哪里？

One is where are you looking?

因为注意力可以指向外部世界。

Because attention can be paid to the external world.

比如，最近有什么事情吸引了你的注意力？

What is something that has gotten your attention lately, for instance?

我花了很多时间思考人工智能。

I'm spending a lot of time thinking about AI.

好的。

Okay.

所以你转过身，周围都是工具，有些是基于文本的，有些是基于语音的，但你的注意力是向外的。

So you turn around, you're surrounded by tools, some are text based, some are voice based, but the attention is going outward.

注意力也可以转向内在。

Attention can also be paid inward.

当你思考人工智能时，或许会有一些内省的想法。

As you're thinking about AI, and perhaps you have some introspective thoughts.

这些工具是否比我们更优秀？

Are these tools getting better than we are?

它们是否像我们一样有创造力？

Are they as creative as we are?

你是在向内看，还是向外看？

Where are you looking internally or externally?

还有另一个维度，那就是谁在主导注意的方向。

And there's also another dimension, which is who's dictating the looking.

你是出于自己的意愿，无论是向外还是向内关注吗？

Are you looking on your own accord, either outside or inside?

还是有人在引导你去注意？

Or is someone prompting you to look?

因为有时候你可能会路过某人或某物，突然不得不多看一眼。

Because sometimes you may be passing by somebody or something and suddenly just have to do a double take.

在这两个变量的交汇点上——你关注哪里，以及是谁在关注或引导关注？

At the intersection of these two variables, where are you looking and who's doing the looking or prompting it?

你可能会想，从引导他人向外关注的角度来看，我拥有很大的控制权。

You might think, well, I have a lot of control in terms of prompting someone to look outside.

从这个角度来看，你可以利用刺激物的一些物理特性。

From that perspective, you can use some physical properties of a stimulus.

比如，如果某物一直很小，那么让它变大就会吸引注意。

Like for instance, if something is small all the time, then making something large will get attention.

如果某物是安静的，那么更响亮的东西就会吸引你的注意。

If something is quiet, then something that will be louder will get your attention.

所以，想想你可以自行操控的刺激属性，这些属性能让人注意到它。

So think about some properties of a stimulus that you can manipulate on your own, and that makes someone look.

如果你能让他们注意，就更有可能让他们记住某些东西。

If you make them look, you're more likely to enable them to remember something.

这真的非常有趣。

That's really fascinating.

所以，就是取某物并改变它通常的呈现方式。

So it's taking something and changing the way it normally appears.

我们的大脑天生倾向于关注新奇或变化的事物，因此这些会吸引我们的注意力。

Our brains are wired for novelty or things that change, so that attracts our attention.

幸运的是，新奇并不是唯一能吸引我们注意的因素。

Luckily, novelty is not the only thing that attracts our attention.

但没错，如果你能让某物变得新颖，有时你也不必给自己太大压力，因为总是想出新东西是非常困难的。但我想区分一下这两个术语：新奇和惊喜。

But yes, if you can make something new or sometimes you don't have to put so much pressure on yourselves because coming up with something new all the time, that would be very difficult But I want to make a distinction between these two terms, novelty and surprise.

新奇是指你以前从未见过或经历过的事物，很难想出来。

Novelty is something that you haven't seen or experienced before, very hard to come up with.

惊喜是指你以前见过或经历过的事物，但没有预料到。

Surprise is something that you have seen or experienced before, but did not expect.

而它之所以仍能吸引注意力，是因为你所期待的与实际发生之间的差异，正是大脑学习的方式。

And the reason why that still works on attention is because the difference between what you expect and what happens is how the brain learns.

因此，从生物学上讲，我们其实并不喜欢惊喜，因为惊喜不就是未能预测接下来会发生什么吗？

So biologically speaking, we don't really like surprises because what is a surprise but a failure to predict what happens next?

但我们能够承受不去关注惊喜，因为一个能预测下一步的头脑，更能多活一会儿。

But we can afford not to pay attention to surprises because a brain that predicts the next step is a brain that survives a little bit longer.

举个例子，我记得在一次演示中看到一张图片，有人画了一个蛋壳，从中钻出一只小斗牛犬，因为你根本想不到这种组合。

So for example, I remember seeing an image in a presentation that somebody had created of an eggshell, and out of it comes this little pug, because you don't expect that.

你以前见过斗牛犬，也见过蛋壳，但从未见过它们以这种方式结合在一起。

You have seen the pug before, you have seen an eggshell before, but not in that combination.

因此，作为一条实用的指导原则，不妨思考一下：你的观众正在看什么、期待什么，然后在某个时刻，对熟悉的事物进行巧妙的扭转。

So as a practical guideline, wonder, can you look at what your audiences are looking at and expecting, and at some point twist the familiar.

而且不一定非得像一只狗从蛋壳里钻出来那样戏剧化，任何稍微出人意料的事情都可以。

And it doesn't have to be as dramatic as having a dog come out of an eggshell, but it could be anything that's slightly surprising.

通过帮助引导人们的注意力，这是否就意味着他们能记得更牢呢？

And by virtue of helping guide people's attention, does that necessarily mean that they'll remember it more?

通常如此。

Typically.

所以，如果你无法吸引注意力，就增加了记忆的可能性。

So if you can't have attention, you're increasing the chances of memory.

科学不就是某种事情更有可能发生的一种可能性提升吗？

And what is science but the increased likelihood that something is going to happen.

它会一直发生吗？

Is it going to happen all the time?

当然不会。

Definitely not.

这很遗憾，因为我真希望100%的注意力能转化为100%的记忆，但事实并非总是如此。

And it's unfortunate because I would love if 100% of attention turned into 100% of memory, and that is not always the case.

通常，注意力会伴随着某种更强烈的情绪，因为你可能看到那只从蛋壳里出来的斗牛犬，但你其实根本不在乎斗牛犬。

Often attention is combined with some stronger emotion too, because you may see the pug in the eggshell, but maybe you don't really care about pugs at all.

你心里想，是啊，随便吧。

You're thinking, yeah, whatever.

而这类片段其实并不容易找到。

And those segments are not really all that easy to come by.

比如，我记得一项在校园里做的经典研究，有人在独轮车上放了一个小丑。

Like, I remember a classic study that was done on a campus, and somebody had put a clown on a unicycle.

他们想看看这个骑着独轮车的小丑能吸引多少注意力。

And they wanted to see how much attention would that clown on a unicycle get.

由于人们边走边看手机，可能只有一小部分人注意到了，即使那些看了的人，也未必真正关注发生了什么。

And because people were walking, looking at their phones, maybe a fraction of those paid attention, even those who did look, weren't necessarily tuned in to what was happening.

所以，即使你视觉上看到了，也并没有完全处理这些信息，因此对它的记忆并不深刻。

So even though visually you're seeing it, you're not really processing all that fully, So therefore, the memory for it is not as strong.

所以，我怀着谦逊的态度看待商业内容，因为几乎从不可能创造出像骑独轮车的小丑这样令人兴奋的东西。

So imagine, I look with humility at business content because hardly ever are in the position to create something as exciting as a clown on a unicycle.

如果这都无法引起注意，那就很明显我们必须为此付出努力。

So if that doesn't get attention, it's very clear that we have to work hard at it.

在商业环境中，人们常常被其他事情分散注意力。

In the business context, people are often distracted by other things.

所以，首先获得这种专注本身就很难。

So actually just getting that focus in the first place is hard.

确实如此。

So true.

多任务处理和干扰通常是导致注意力和记忆力下降的最大原因。

Multitasking and distractions are quite often the biggest culprits to attention and therefore memory.

因此，以一种令人谦卑的方式来看人们在做什么，打破常规，而在那之前，我们称之为启动。

So in a humbling kind of way, look at what people are doing, deviate from the pattern, and a step before that would be what we call priming.

让大脑处于准备好的状态来集中注意力。

So get the brain in a ready state to pay attention.

我们可能没有注意到小丑骑独轮车的原因之一，是因为我们没有为这种特别的事情做好准备。

One of the reasons we may not observe the clown on a unicycle is because we're not ready for something that's a little extra special.

所以启动效应意味着让大脑先处理一个刺激，以便下一个刺激能以稍微不同的方式被处理。

So priming means getting the brain to process a stimulus so that the next stimulus can be processed a little bit differently.

因此，如果你愿意舍弃一些你珍视的元素，比如创造出一些出人意料的元素——一些更不寻常的东西——把这些元素放在真正需要引起注意、从而令人难忘的内容之前。

So if you sacrifice some of your darlings, let's just say, you're coming up with some of these surprising elements, something that's a little bit more unusual, put those elements right before something that really has to get attention and therefore be memorable.

所以不要在序列中浪费这些元素，而是战略性地将它们安排在那些必须吸引注意力的节点之前。

So don't waste those within a sequence, place them strategically before points that really have to get attention.

非常有趣。

Really interesting.

所以启动效应和打破模式的观念确实非常强大。

So this notion of priming and disrupting patterns can be really powerful.

作为一名从事我这份工作、帮助人们构建故事的人，我们经常谈论故事的情感脉络或逻辑结构，但你提到的，是为它增添了一个新的维度：思考那些最出人意料的元素应该放在哪里，以及在此之前可以做些什么来让人们做好准备。

And as somebody who does what I do, helping people craft stories, we often talk about the emotional arc or the logic of the story, but what I hear you is adding something else to it, which is thinking about where those things that are most surprising fall and what you can do beforehand to get people prepared for them.

这增加了另一个全新的维度，但这个维度可能非常有价值。

That adds a whole nother dimension, but one that could be very valuable.

非常有价值，因为一切都有其先后顺序。

Very valuable because everything has a sequence.

首先发生一件事，然后另一件事发生，再接着另一件事发生。

Something happens first and then something else happens and something else happens.

在我的神经科学研究中，我注意到让他们的大脑进入准备状态非常重要。

And I'm noticing in my neuroscience research quite often, it is very important to get their brain in a ready state.

你能给我一个例子吗？比如，你可以做些什么来为一场典型商业演示做铺垫？

Give me an example of something you could do to prime somebody for a typical business presentation that somebody might do.

我能做些什么来帮助你？

What might I do to help?

我们来想一些铺垫方法。

Let's think of some primers.

首先，是一些通用的例子，让你能体会到铺垫的力量。

First, some generic ones, just so you can recognize the power of priming.

比如说，我想让你更容易地理解‘桌子’这个词。

So for instance, let's just say that I wanted you to process the word table a little bit easier.

如果我先对你说‘椅子’这个词，你对‘桌子’这个词的反应就会更迅速。

If I said to you the word chair, you'd be a little bit more ready for the word table.

但如果我对你说‘老虎’，你就不会那么准备好迎接下一个词。

But if I said to you the word tiger, you would not be all that ready for the next one.

在商业内容中，假设你希望人们记住，如果他们使用你的服务，就能为人工智能做好准备。

In business content, let's just say that you want people to remember the fact that if they use your services, they would be prepared for AI, for instance.

你可以使用语义启动。

You could have a semantic prime.

你可以使用情绪启动。

You could have an emotional prime.

一个有力的故事，可以成为传达抽象信息的良好启动方式。

A strong story can be a good primer to an otherwise abstract message.

我想起了我和罗伯特·西奥迪尼的一次对话，他谈到了‘事前说服’，也就是我们事先可以做的、让人更有可能接受某些事情的举措。

I'm reminded of a conversation I had with Robert Cialdini, and he talked about pre suasion, the things that we can do in advance to make somebody more likely.

他举了一个床垫公司的例子，他们在网站上放了云朵的图片。

And he gave the example of a mattress company who on their website had pictures of clouds.

他们的想法是，我们的床非常舒适柔软，因此你在引导大脑去联想这一点。

And the idea was that our beds are very comfortable and soft, and so you're priming the brain to think about that.

我觉得这真的非常有趣。

And I find this really fascinating.

你认为大脑天生容易遗忘。

You argue that the brain is naturally forgetful.

演讲者如何主动在演讲或沟通中设计记忆点，通过具体的语言或视觉线索，确保最关键的信息不被遗忘？

How can a speaker proactively build retention moments into their presentations or communication using specific, perhaps linguistic or visual cues to ensure that the most critical information isn't forgotten?

根据我的研究，没有任何例外，48小时后，人们会忘记他们所接触内容的90%以上。

What I'm noticing in my research, and no exception, is after forty eight hours, people forget 90% or more of the content that they're exposed to.

抛开环境的花哨、书写方式的差异，人们自然会遗忘。

Beyond the fancy environment of it all, beyond the handwriting of it all, people naturally forget.

我们还没有与人工智能融合。

We haven't merged with AI yet.

我们拥有的是人类的大脑，而这些大脑是会出错的。

We have human brains, and those brains are fallible.

我并不太担心那90%被遗忘的部分。

I'm not so worried about the 90% that is forgotten.

我担心的是那10%。

I am worried about the 10%.

让我们把这个看作一个隐喻性的数字，因为有时候人们遗忘的远不止这些。

Let's consider it a metaphorical number because sometimes people forget way more, by the way.

我时不时注意到，这个比例只是略微上升，但幅度不大。

Every so often I'm noticing increase just slightly, not by much.

因此，这个隐喻性的10%在时间推移中往往能保持稳定。

So the metaphorical 10% tends to stay there across time.

你需要它保持稳定，因为人们做决定时是基于他们记住的内容，而不是他们遗忘的内容。

You need it to stay there because people make decisions in your favor based on what they remember, not on what they forget.

但我担心的是，如果不加以干预，这10%的内容是随机的。

But what I worry about that 10% is that it is random unless you take care of it.

我的意思是，如果你向一组20个人演讲，一个人会记住其中10%的某个信息，另一个人会记住另一个，还有一个人会记住另一个。

What I mean by that is if you present to a group of 20 people, one person will take away one ten percent message, another one will take another one, and another one will take another one.

有时候，有利于你的决策进展缓慢，正是因为并非每个人都记住了相同的内容。

And the reason sometimes decisions in your favor are slower is because not everyone walks away remembering the same things.

所以你追求的不仅仅是记忆，或者群体中统一的记忆。

So you're not just after a memory or after a unified memory across a group.

决策很少是个人行为。

Decisions are hardly ever individual.

通常它们是社会性的。

Usually they're social.

因此，作为一项实用的提前技巧，想想你的10%信息是什么？

So as a practical technique ahead of time, wonder what is your 10% message?

很多人追求注意力和记忆，但很少有人真正清楚自己希望被记住什么。

So many people aspire at attention and memory, but very few really know what they want to be memorable for.

所以当你在听我们交谈时，始终问自己：我的10%信息是什么？

So as you're listening to us have this conversation, ask the question always, what is my 10% message?

如果你有勇气在48小时后打电话给你的听众，问他们：你从那个部分记住了什么？

And if you had the courage to call your audience members in forty eight hours and say, what do you remember from that segment?

你会对他们的回答感到满意吗？

Would you be satisfied with their answer?

只有当你清楚自己的10%信息时，才会对他们的回答感到满意。

You're only satisfied with the answer if you know your 10% message.

然后就没有秘密了。

And then there is no secret.

重复是记忆之母。

Repetition is the mother of memory.

你会一次又一次地回到这个信息上。

You'll come back to that message again and again.

比如，如果我们现在要为这个节目提炼一个10%的信息，我们可以称之为‘掌控你的10’。

Like for instance, if we had to create a 10% message for this show right now, let's call it control your 10.

那么，掌控你的10%的一个标准就是：先明确它，然后比你想象的更频繁地重复它。

And one criteria then for controlling your 10% is you clarify it and then you repeat it more often than you think.

在我的研究中发现，在五分钟的演讲中，重复四次才能确保听众记住你要传达的核心内容。

In my studies, I'm showing that in a five minute presentation, a repetition of four times is necessary for you to be in charge what they take away.

十分钟的话，至少需要重复六次。

Ten minutes, repetition of at least six times.

二十分钟，至少重复十二次。

Twenty minutes, at least 12 times.

我认为人们不太习惯重复的原因是，他们觉得自己的听众非常聪明，尤其是科技领域的人，以及全球那些思维敏锐的人。

And the reason I think people are not so comfortable with repetition is because they think, I'm approaching very smart audiences, especially people in tech, especially people globally who have brilliant minds.

即使那些聪明的人，他们的大脑也是人类的大脑，记忆力和你的一样容易出错。

Even those brilliant minds still have human brains, and their memory is just as fallible as yours.

重复你的10%。

Repeat your 10%.

选择你的10%并全力聚焦，这一点真的非常重要。

This notion of picking what is your 10% and doubling down and really focusing on it, really, really important.

这种重复必须每次都用完全相同的措辞吗？

Does that repetition have to be saying the same thing exactly the same way?

还是说我可以先说一遍，然后讲一个体现它的故事，或者用一个类比来表达它？

Or can I say it and then tell a story that reflects it or use an analogy that represents it?

要达到效果，重复必须使用完全相同的词语吗？

Does the repetition have to be the same words to get the effect?

我喜欢你这样做，因为你运用了重复和类比。

I like what you're going to in the sense of you're using the repetition, you're using the analogy.

你可以使用任何其他你想要的技术，但只要做完这些，就要回到完全相同的信息上。

You can use all of the other techniques you want as long as once you're done with those, you come back to the exact same message.

别把这事交给运气，也别交给他们，因为尤其是从一个精彩的故事中，人们可以提取出太多其他含义和细微差别，从而往很多方向理解。

Don't leave it to chance and don't leave it to them because especially from a beautiful story, people can extract so many other meanings and so many other nuances so they can take it in many directions.

但不，我们就是要回到同一个核心信息上。

But no, we want to come back to the same main message.

控制好你的10%，比如就拿我们这次对话来说。

Control your 10%, for instance, for our conversation.

所以你可以用多种工具来实现重复，但你肯定要多次说出同样的内容。

So you can use a variety of tools for repetition, but you definitely wanna say the same thing a few times.

所以如果我在一个20分钟的演讲中要重复12次，也许我实际上只字字重复三四次，但用所有这些其他例子来填充。

So if I have to say it 12 times for a twenty minute presentation, maybe I actually say the literal words three or four times, but I use all these other examples to fit in.

你可以使用其他例子，但要回来12次，因为当你希望人们站在你这边做决定时，他们会依赖自己的记忆。

You can use the other examples, but come back 12 times because when you want people to decide in your favor, they will use their memory.

如果你处于一个竞争激烈的领域，而人们无法准确记住你以及与你相关的讯息，结果就是你失去了核心要点。

And if you are in a competitive space and people don't remember you and the message associated with you verbatim, what happens is that you take away gist.

如果他们从你这里获取了要点，又从别人那里获取了要点，再从其他人那里获取了要点，那么48小时之后，人们就分不清谁说了什么了。

And if they take gist away from you and gist from somebody else and gist from somebody else, after forty eight hours and beyond, people will not know who said what.

那他们会怎么做呢？

And what do they do?

他们往往会把可信度赋予更熟悉的信息来源。

They tend to give credibility to the more familiar source.

如果你不是那个熟悉的信息来源，那就意味着你花了时间在为别人塑造信息，而他们却因此获得了赞誉，这真的很伤人。

And if you're not the familiar source, that means you have spent that time creating somebody else's message and they take the credit and that really hurts.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

卡门，我就知道这会是一场精彩的对话。

Carmen, I knew this was gonna be a fantastic conversation.

你完全没有让我失望。

You did not disappoint.

你给了我很多工具，让我思考如何沟通，以便更好地传达我的10%核心信息并更有效地吸引观众。

You've given me so many tools to think about how I can communicate so that I get my 10% message across and engage audiences more.

我们马上回来，继续我们的对话。

We'll be right back to finish our conversation.

但在那之前，我们先插播一段来自赞助商的简短广告。

But first, we're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors.

他们的支持覆盖了制作成本，让我们能够免费为您呈现这档节目。

Their support covers the cost of production so we can bring you this show for free.

本期《Think Fast》，

This episode of Think Fast,

Talk Smart 由 Squarespace 赞助播出。

Talk Smart is brought to you by Squarespace.

你知道吗？在这档节目中，我经常谈论沟通，而其中越来越重要的一部分，是拥有一个线上平台，让你的想法、工作和声音真正得以展现。

You know, I talk a lot on this show about communication, and increasingly, part of that is having a place online where your ideas, your work, and your voice can really live.

但要启动这样的平台，可能会让人觉得负担沉重。

But getting something like that started can feel like a big lift.

这正是我欣赏Squarespace的原因之一。

That's one reason I appreciate Squarespace.

它简化了流程，同时不牺牲质量。

It simplifies the process without sacrificing quality.

你可以在一个平台上构建专业的网站、注册域名，甚至提供教练、课程或活动等服务，而无需拼凑多个工具。

You can build a professional looking website, claim your domain, and even offer services like coaching, courses, or events all in one place without having to cobble together multiple tools.

我特别喜欢他们电子邮件营销与内置分析功能的整合。

I especially like how their email campaigns connect with built in analytics.

你可以与受众保持联系，了解人们在哪些内容上互动，并在不增加工作流程复杂性的情况下做出深思熟虑的调整。

You can stay in touch with your audience, see what people are engaging with and make thoughtful adjustments without adding more complexity to your workflow.

对我来说，这真正关乎消除障碍，让我能专注于分享重要的内容。

For me, it's really about removing barriers so I can focus on sharing what matters.

如果你一直在考虑打造某个东西——一个项目、一个平台或一项业务——Squarespace能让你更容易迈出第一步。

If you've been thinking about building something, a project, a platform, or a business, Squarespace makes it much easier to take that first step.

前往 squarespace.com/tfts 免费试用。

Head to squarespace.com/tfts for a free trial.

当你准备上线时，使用优惠码TFTS可享受网站或域名首笔订单10%的折扣。

And when you're ready to launch, use offer code TFTS to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

在结束之前，我想问三个问题，正如你所知。

Before we end, I'd like to ask three questions, as you well know.

第一个是我专为你设计的，另外两个则是适用于每个人的。

One, I create just for you, and the other two are similar across everybody.

你准备好接受挑战了吗？

Are you up for this?

当然，当然。

Sure, sure.

你在解释时非常细致，善于使用大量实例，做得非常出色。

You do a masterful job in your explanation of being very descriptive, of using lots of examples.

你很好地实践了你所教授和研究的内容。

You practice very well the things that you teach and have studied.

这是你经过深思熟虑的结果，还是自然而然就做到的？

Is that something that you really think through or is that just natural?

你是怎么做到这么轻松地掌握这些的？

And how did you learn to do that with so little effort?

这通常是多种因素的结合。

It's often a combination.

有些东西是自然而然的，但有些则需要更加刻意地去练习，因为我们在实践中要帮助很多客户为他们的受众做同样的事。

Some things come naturally, but some things have to come a bit more deliberately because in our practice, we help a lot of clients do the same for their audiences.

正如你非常清楚的，我们的业务中，受众之上还有受众。

In our business, as you very well know, we have audiences with audiences.

很容易一开口就谈论自己的功能、优势和让你兴奋的事情，却忽略了这些对你们——作为次级受众——意味着什么。

It's very easy to start speaking about your own features and benefits and things that get you excited at the expense of what this means to you, the secondary audience.

所以，这始终是一个提醒：要站在他们的角度思考，坐在他们的位置上，穿上他们的鞋子，而穿上客户的鞋子则会更加令人兴奋。

So it's always a reminder to put it through their lens, sit where they're sitting, wear a few of their shoes, the customer's shoes would be even more and more exciting.

我也非常喜欢例子，因为如果你有一些好的例子和故事，而你也相信精彩的故事，那么每次演讲时，这都会为你自己的能量带来额外的兴奋时刻。

I really enjoy also examples because if I have some good examples and stories and you're a believer in great stories, with each time that you speak, it's almost an extra excitement moment for your own energy.

因此，我希望从我们这次对话中，你能获得一个实用的启示：当你掌控自己的10%时，挑战自己去思考：我该如何保持自己的动力，并让它持续高涨？

So I'm hoping one of the practical lessons from this conversation that we have as you control your 10% is to challenge yourself to say, how can I maintain my own motivation and have that be up?

因为人们会很快察觉到缺乏活力。

Because people will sense lack of energy very quickly.

我记得曾经采访过演出时间最长的百老汇剧目《歌剧魅影》。

And I remember this interview with the longest lasting Broadway show, The Phantom of the Opera.

有些人以为是《猫》，但实际上是《歌剧魅影》。

Some people think Cats, but it's actually The Phantom of the Opera.

于是，一位记者采访了这位在这部剧中出演多年的演员。

So a journalist interviews the person who has played in the show for so many years.

他第一个问题就是：你演这个角色多少次了？

And his first question is, how many times have you done this role?

在采访时，他已经演了1764场。

1,764 at the time of the interview.

这个人不得不重复自己的10%信息达1700多次。

So this person had to repeat his own 10% message 1,700 times.

你如何掌握如此大量的重复？

How do you master that much repetition?

对他来说，这非常富有激情，因为每两周我们就换一位新的克里斯汀。

For him, it was highly sexual because every two weeks he says we get a new Christine.

这就是他保持自己动力的方式。

So that's when how he was keeping his own motivation going.

但对我们所有人来说，教训是寻找一些小的元素。

But the lesson for all of us is look for some small elements.

可能是那些故事。

It could be the stories.

可能是实际的应用。

It could be the practical applications.

可能是非常具体的东西，但必须有一些东西能持续激发你的动力。

It could be something very concrete, but something has to keep your own motivation up.

我非常感谢这一点。

I very much appreciate that.

我多年来一直教授非常相似的内容，帮助我保持新鲜感的是提醒自己，对别人来说这是全新的，我能做些什么来更好地让他们理解和接受？

I teach very similar content and have for many years, and what helps me keep it fresh is reminding myself that it's new for the other folks and what can I do to help land it best for them?

第二个问题，你钦佩的沟通者是谁？为什么？

Question number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why?

我们本可以举一些公众人物的例子，但有一个至今仍让我记忆深刻。

I know we could go for the public figures, but here's one that's still in my mind years later.

我想说，这至少已经是五年前的事了。

I wanna say it's been at least five years.

想象一下这个场景。

So picture it.

我当时在波兰，参观了一个盐矿。

I'm in Poland, and I'm visiting the salt mine.

我不是那种喜欢跟团旅游的人，但要参观这个地方，唯一的方式就是加入一个团队。

So I'm not a big tour group person, but the only way to go and visit the thing is to join a group.

当我站在入口处时，我和其他大约十到十二个人一起，这时一位导游出现了。

And as I'm here at the entrance, I'm part of maybe ten, twelve other people, and there comes a tour guide.

她第一句话就说：欢迎参加这次三小时的游览。

And the first thing she says is welcome to this three hour tour.

我真想直接倒下，因为我想着，我不但不是那种喜欢跟团的人，还要在这儿待上三个该死的小时。

And I just want to fall over because I'm thinking not only am I not a tour group person, but three freaking hours of this thing.

这根本不可能。

There's just no way.

但我要告诉你，她是我很久以来见过的最具启发性的沟通者。

And let me just tell you that she was one of the most inspiring communicators I had seen in a long time.

我非得跑到波兰的盐矿才能遇到这样的人。

I had to go all the way to a Polish salt mine to find it.

但她运用了你我正在讨论的许多技巧，这些技巧你很可能在课堂上也教过。

But she applied many of these techniques that you and I are talking about and you very likely teach in your classes.

她的讲故事技巧简直一流。

The storytelling was just top notch.

不仅故事本身精彩，而且讲述时语调、节奏、笑点和铺垫都恰到好处——在讲一个好故事之前，就已经让人预感到精彩即将发生。

Not only just was it top notch in the sense that stories existed, they were being said with good inflections and the timing and the punchlines and the priming of it all, like before a good story would already be ready that something exciting is going to happen.

记住，要为大脑做好铺垫，让它做好准备。

Remember, priming the brain and getting it ready.

所以我认为我们可以从很多这样的人身上找到灵感，下次你去星巴克的时候也可以留意一下。

So I think we can find inspiration from so many people like next time maybe you go to Starbucks.

留意一下那个人是否有个故事，并且是如何讲述的，因为他们可能是让你受到启发的优秀沟通者。

Pay attention to how that person might have a story and tell it because they could be a good communicator that can inspire you.

我喜欢在平凡的地方发现优秀的沟通者。

I love finding great communicators in average places.

曾经有个男士在一家我常去的洗车店旁边经营烧烤摊。

There was a gentleman who ran a barbecue next to a car wash I used to go to.

他是我听过最棒的故事讲述者之一，所以我经常去洗车，就是因为我喜欢和他交流。

He was one of the best storytellers I've ever heard, and I would just wash my car a lot because I just like connecting with him.

最后一个问题。

Final question.

成功沟通的配方中，前三个关键要素是什么？

What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

哦，这三个要素都围绕着一个核心信息：掌控你的10%。

Oh, so the three ingredients would be tied by the one main message, control your 10%.

在那之下，还有什么其他要素？

Underneath that, what would be the ingredients?

确保你把它讲清楚。

Make sure you clarify it.

如果你清楚自己的10%核心信息，你的听众也更有可能明白。

If you know what your 10% message is, your audience is also more likely to know.

对你来说模糊，对你听众来说也同样模糊。

Nebulous to you, nebulous to them.

第二点，我们说的是惊喜元素。

Number two, we are talking about the element of surprise.

将你的一些信息或支持观点，与能打破听众思维惯性的内容联系起来。

Associate some of your messages, supporting points for your 10% message with something that jolts the brain out of its habituation.

第三点，没有什么秘密。

And number three, there is no secret.

重复是记忆之母。

Repetition is the mother of memory.

比你感觉舒服的频率更频繁地回到那10%，这才是你有意识地传达你的10%信息的方式，而不是任其听天由命。

Come back to that 10% more often than you feel comfortable with, and that's how you are deliberate about your 10% message and you do not leave it to chance.

明确、惊喜、重复。

Clarify, surprise, repeat.

通过这三点，你将真正实现你的10%信息，让你的信息更令人难忘。

And in that, you will really deliver on your 10% message and make your message more memorable.

卡门，希望我们这次的对话能留在所有听众的记忆中，也一定会深深印在我的记忆里。

And Carmen, our time together, I hope, will live in the memories of all of our listeners, certainly etched in my memory.

感谢你抽出时间，我很高兴我们终于能完成这次对话。

Thank you for your time, and I'm super glad we finally got to do this.

非常感谢大家。

Thank you so much, everyone.

感谢您收听《快速思考，明智表达》播客的又一期节目。

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

想了解更多关于沟通与神经科学的内容，请收听第39期与大卫·伊格曼的对话。

To learn more about communication and neuroscience, please listen to episode 39 with David Eagleman.

本集由凯瑟琳·里德、瑞安·卡马斯和我，马特·阿布拉姆斯制作。

This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

我们的音乐来自Floyd Wonder，特别感谢Podium播客公司。

Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

请在YouTube以及您收听播客的任何平台找到我们。

Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

别忘了订阅并为我们评分。

Be sure to subscribe and rate us.

同时，请在LinkedIn和Instagram上关注我们，并访问fastersmarter.io获取深度视频、英语学习内容和我们的通讯。

Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram, and check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter.

请考虑我们的高级服务，获取更长的DeepThinks节目、AMA（问我任何问题）以及其他更多内容，访问fastersmarter.io/premium。

Please consider our premium offering for extended DeepThinks episodes, AMAs, ask Matt anything, and much more at fastersmarter.io/premium.

在结束之前，我想衷心感谢大家的收听。

Before we wrap up, I just wanna say thank you for listening.

听到世界各地的人们如何将这些理念应用到自己的生活中，真的让我深受感动。

It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives.

这激励了我以及所有为您带来这档节目的团队成员。

It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show.

如果您想获取更多集数和资源，请随时关注、订阅并浏览往期对话。

If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations.

我们非常感谢您对《Think Fast, Talk Smart》的支持。

We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.