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好的。
Okay.
这里恰好是芝加哥，但每个城市都有这样一个地方。
This happens to be Chicago, but every city has a place like this.
镇子尽头那个诡异荒凉的区域。
That weird desolate area at the far end of town.
我们位于旧废弃钢铁厂以西半英里处。
We're half mile west of the old abandoned steel mills.
我们位于垃圾填埋场以北半英里处，那里过去常有甲烷火灾燃烧。
We're half mile north of landfills where methane fires used to burn.
就在汽车废料场以南。
Just south of the auto junkyard.
就在旧城市垃圾场以东，那里曾堆着一座原始垃圾山，每逢刮风，臭味就会弥漫整个街区。
Just east of the site of the old city dump, where there was a mountain of raw garbage that would stink up the neighborhood whenever the wind would blow in
错误的
the wrong
方向。
direction.
这里所有人都称它为帕西尼山，因为是这位市政官员允许城市把垃圾堆在这里的。
Everybody down here called it Mount Passini, for the ottoman who let the city put it here.
你注意到了这些，你该怎么称呼它们，轮胎印吗？
You'll notice all these, what would you call it, tire marks.
这条街全年都被用作直线加速赛的赛道。
This street is used as for drag racing year round.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
因为这里离警察足够远，他们根本不会管。
Because it's basically far enough away from the police that they don't don't do anything about it.
我的向导是查理·格雷格森，他从小在这里长大。
My guide is Charlie Gregerson, who grew up down here.
他带我看了上世纪四十年代他小时候湖边的位置，那里曾经是卡卢梅特湖。
He shows me where a lake, Lake Calumet, used to be back in the forties when he was a kid.
他曾经和父亲划着小船来这里钓鱼。
He'd go fishing on a rowboat with his dad.
后来，市政府开始用垃圾和焚烧炉灰烬填埋湖的大片区域。
Then the city started filling in huge sections of the lake with garbage and incinerator ash.
到了七十年代，你来这里会看到推土机在搬运芝加哥一些伟大建筑的废墟，这些建筑刚刚被拆除。
You'd come here in the seventies and see bulldozers pushing around the rubble of some of Chicago's great buildings, which had been recently demolished.
比如路易斯·沙利文的杰作——证券交易所大楼和加拉克剧院。
Louis Sullivan masterpieces, like the Stock Exchange Building and the Garak Theater.
这些废墟最终都堆在这里。
This is where they ended up.
现在，我们站在这里，他给我指看。
Now now show me, we're standing here.
当时所有建筑废料都是倒在哪里的？那景象是什么样的？
Where were all the buildings being dumped, and what did that look like?
就在这里，就在倾倒场的北端。
Right here at right here at what was the north end of the dump.
实际上，我从湖里捡到了几块交易所的装饰构件。
And actually, we picked I picked up a few pieces of, stock exchange ornament right out of out of the lake.
但当然，大部分都被碾碎混入了泥土，因为推土机不停地把垃圾堆成堆，然后把它们全部压平。
But, of course, most of it had been ground right into the dirt because they had bulldozers that would just you keep on they would dump the stuff in piles, and the bulldozers would just flatten it all out.
于是，路易斯·沙利文风格的陶土装饰品就这样突兀地露在外面。
And so there'd be this, like, Louis Sullivan, you know, terracotta ornament just sticking out of out there.
是的。
Yeah.
所以当你走在路上，看到这些残垣断壁从地里冒出来，那景象简直太诡异了，就像一座城市末日般的死亡场景。
And so and so walking around when there's these, you know, pieces of buildings sticking up, I mean, it just seems like it just must have been such a a strange scene, like this apocalyptic, you know, death of a city.
哦，对的。
Oh, yeah.
我记得曾见过一根巨大的凤凰柱，我知道它来自加里克剧院
Well, there were I remember I remember seeing one of these big, phoenix columns that I knew had come out of the Garik Theater was
只是突出来
just sticking
从地里。
out of the ground.
加里克剧院的那两根柱子支撑着舞台上方楼层的重量。
Two of those in the Garik Theater distributed the weight of the upper floors that were over the stage.
其中一根柱子以大约45度角从地里斜插出来。
One of those was just sticking out at about a 45 degree angle out of the ground.
那时，加里克剧院已经消失将近十年了。
And at that point, the Garrick had been gone for almost ten years.
这个区域曾经有过宏伟的计划，包括运河和水道，以及一个从未实现的港口。
There were once big plans for this area, for canals and waterways, a harbor that never really worked out.
城市有规划图显示了街道和完整的街区，整个网格布局都未曾建成。
There's zoning maps of the city that show streets and complete neighborhoods, a whole grid of them that nobody ever got around to building.
如今，所有垃圾之上却建起了一座高尔夫球场。
Instead, now, on top of all the trash stands a golf course.
查理在会所里说的。
Charlie says it from the clubhouse.
他看到的景色，和他当年和父亲划小船时一模一样。
He gets exactly the same view that he used to get back when he and his dad took out the rowboat.
就是同一个地方。
It's the same spot.
那里曾经是湖。
That's where the lake once was.
你能清楚地看到市中心。
You can see clear to downtown.
并不算远。
It's not far away.
但感觉就像另一个城市。
Might as well be another city.
今天在我们的节目中，我们将讲述几个类似这样的地方的故事——它们位于城市阴影之下，是那种奇特的无人区，总让人觉得有什么秘密正在视线之外发生，你知道的。
Well, today on our program, have stories from several places like this, in the shadow of the city, that weird no man's land, where it always feels like secret stuff is happening, you know, just out of sight.
WBEZ芝加哥，这里是美国生活。
WBEZ Chicago, It's This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
I'm Ira Glass.
我们今天的节目几年前首次播出。
Our program today was first broadcast a few years ago.
本期节目分为三幕：第一幕，布鲁克林群岛。
It's in three acts: Ecc one, Brooklyn Archipelago.
在这一幕中，一些乘客某天登上了一趟三小时的游船，结果却在一座大城市的边缘、一连串岛屿组成的荒野中迷了路，有人甚至担心自己会丧命。
In that act, some passengers set sail one day on a three hour tour, a three hour tour, and end up getting lost in the wilderness one fears for his life on a string of islands that is just outside a very, very big city.
第二幕，水上问题桥梁。
Act two, troubled bridge over water.
一位男子前往偏远地点，帮助那些并不想被帮助的人。
A guy goes to a remote spot to help people who do not want to be helped.
第三幕，请在我后院。
Act three, please, in my backyard.
关于一家工厂散发的工业气味引发争议，而这一次，人们却希望这些气味持续存在。
Controversy over industrial odors coming from a factory, odors that, for once, people want to keep coming.
请继续关注。
Stay with us.
美国生活。
This American Life.
今天的节目是重播，第一幕：布鲁克林群岛。
Today's show is a rerun, Act one, Brooklyn Archipelago.
布雷特·马丁讲述了这个故事，地点发生在——也许你已经猜到是哪座城市了。
Brett Martin has this story which takes place on the outskirts of well, perhaps you've already figured out which city.
听着，这种事确实会发生。
Listen, it happens.
你和朋友出去玩一晚上，结果醉醺醺地穿着内衣，浑身湿透、满身是血，被困在一座荒岛上，而那里离帝国大厦近在咫尺。
You go out for a night with your friends and you wind up drunk in your underwear, soaking wet, covered with blood, and shipwrecked on a desert island, all within sight of the Empire State Building.
这种事确实会发生，至少它确实发生在亚历克斯·扎罗夫身上。
These things happen, or at least they did happen, to Alex Zharov.
亚历克斯今年17岁。
Alex is 17 years old.
他九岁时从乌克兰的一个小镇搬到了美国。
He moved to The US from a small town in The Ukraine when he was nine.
他身材瘦削，穿着扎染T恤，一头乱蓬蓬的金色卷发，还留着一抹努力但并不太成功的初生小胡子。
He's skinny and wears tie dyed t shirts, an unmanageable spray of frizzy blonde hair, and a valiant, if not altogether successful, starter mustache.
而且，嗯，他可能比我更能很好地介绍自己。
And, well, he can probably introduce himself better than I can.
当我让他报一下名字用于记录时，他是这么回答的。
Here's how he responds when I ask him to state his name for the record.
我叫亚历克斯·扎罗夫，我喜欢在生活中体验非常极端的事情。
My name is Alex Zharov, and, I love to have very radical experiences in life.
我认为自己是一个富有艺术创造力的迷幻人士。
And I consider myself to be a psychedelic, artistically productive person.
以下是关于亚历克斯的其他一些事情。
Here are a few other things about Alex.
他和他可爱的年长女友以及极其耐心的父母一起住在布鲁克林米德伍德区的一间小公寓里。
He lives with his cute older girlfriend and his exceptionally patient parents in a small apartment in the Midwood section of Brooklyn.
他没有上高中，而是报名参加了一个网络家庭教育项目。
Instead of going to high school, he's enrolled in an Internet homeschooling program.
他正在创作一部科幻小说，并且作为一名学员飞行员已经积累了数百小时的飞行时长。
He's at work on a science fiction novel and has logged several 100 in flight hours as a student pilot.
但亚历克斯的大部分时间都花在了作为乐队e Buffalo的吉他手、歌手和词曲作者上。
But most of Alex's time is spent as a guitarist, singer, songwriter for his band, e Buffalo.
去年秋天，我去观看他们在为期两天的俄罗斯摇滚音乐节上的演出，学到了几件事。
When I went to see them play at a two day Russian rock festival last fall, I learned several things.
首先，布鲁克林有非常多前苏联移民。
First, there are many, many ex Soviet immigrants living in Brooklyn.
其次，他们都极其认真地想要摇滚。
Second, they all very earnestly wanna rock.
第三，无论亚历克斯·扎罗夫是在舞台上仰面翻滚，还是在休息室里一边喝啤酒一边抽烟，他都像个超级明星。
And third, Alex Zharov, whether he's writhing on his back on stage or reclining in the dressing room with a beer and a cigarette, he's kind of a superstar.
在进入我们的故事之前，你还需要认识另一位关键人物，他在多年前亚历克斯刚到美国时，出现在了他生命中的一个关键时刻。
Before we get to our story, the other key person you'll need to meet is someone who entered Alex's life at a crucial moment years ago when Alex first came to The States.
亚历克斯的适应过程很不顺利。
Alex had an awkward adjustment.
他在学校里打架，情绪有些低落。
He fought in school and was kind of depressed.
他感到无聊。
He was bored.
有一天，亚历克斯沿着布赖顿海滩木板路散步时，看到一群年长的男子在为一个叫‘美国俄罗斯朋克摇滚俱乐部’的组织募捐。
Then one day, Alex was walking along the Brighton Beach Boardwalk and saw a group of older guys collecting money for something called the Russian Punk Rock Club of America.
那些人年纪大约二十五到三十岁。
Older guys like 25 and 30 years old.
当时亚历克斯才十二岁。
Alex was 12.
那天他遇到的一位音乐人是罗曼·加贾洛夫，他立刻对年轻的亚历克斯产生了好感。
One of the musicians he met that day was Roman Gajalov, who immediately took to the young Alex.
他当时眼睛有个小动作。
Well, he had this blink in his eyes.
有时候你会遇到一个非凡的人，你就知道，这种感觉说不清。
It's sometimes you see extraordinary person and, you know, you kind of know this.
在那一刻，他看起来完全不像个12岁的孩子。
You know, he wasn't appear to us as 12 year old at that moment.
12岁的时候，他已经写出了我18岁才写的歌。
At 12 years old, he was writing songs that I was writing at at 18.
从那以后，我们就一直在一起了。
And after this, you know, we've been together all the time.
我们叫他克鲁沙，你知道的，这名字是
We call him Khrusha, you know, that's
那是什么意思？
And what does that mean?
克鲁沙就是小猪崽的意思，小猪崽。
Khrusha is means little piglet, little piglet.
在
Under
在他的新朋友的指导下，亚历克斯开始戴着一顶旧布尔什维克风格的帽子，穿着一件长风衣走来走去。
his new friend's tutelage, Alex began walking around in an old Bolshevik style hat and trench coat.
他的朋友们还送给他一些书。
And his friends gave him books.
陀思妥耶夫斯基、托尔金、斯拉夫异教指南、垮掉的一代，还有《鲁滨逊漂流记》和《金银岛》。
Dostoevsky, Tolkien, Guides to Slavic Paganism, The Beats, and also Robinson Crusoe and Treasure Island.
亚历克斯特别喜欢这些书。
Alex was particularly fond of those.
我们今天的故事，我们自己的航海故事，发生在罗曼拥有一艘25英尺长的白色帆船上，亚历克斯喜欢称它为游艇。
And our story today, our own seafaring tale, happens on a boat that Roman owns, a 25 foot white sailboat, which Alex likes to refer to as the yacht.
去年五月一个凉爽的傍晚，亚历克斯、罗曼和另一位名叫亚历克斯·卢巴昌斯基的朋友决定在牙买加湾来一次愉快的小船之旅，牙买加湾是环绕布鲁克林南端的水域。
One cool evening last May, Alex, Roman, and another friend named Alex, Alex Lubachansky, decided to take a nice little boat trip in Jamaica Bay, the body of water that wraps around the Southern end of Brooklyn.
这是亚历克斯。
Here's Alex.
我们三个人决定就买十加仑汽油。
The three of us decided to just get, like, 10 gallons of gas.
我的朋友罗马买了一瓶朗姆酒，我们拿了两罐食物，然后决定在游艇上好好玩一趟。
And, my friend Roman, he got a bottle of rum, and we got two cans of food, and we just decided to have a cool trip on the yacht.
我开始说，我们的目标是公海。
And I started saying, oh, our goal is the open ocean.
我对他说，咱们航行去波兰吧。
Let's sail to Poland, I told him.
罗马的计划没那么雄心勃勃。
Roman had a slightly less ambitious agenda.
计划只是开到桥下，穿过洛克威大桥，然后掉头回来。
Plan was just to go to the bridge, under the Rockaway Bridge, then turn around, and then come back.
本该花大约四十分钟。
It should have taken about forty minutes.
是的。
Yeah.
事情几乎立刻就开始出问题了。
Things started to go wrong almost immediately.
在他们离开码头之前，喝了不少朗姆酒的罗曼掉进了水里，他们不得不把他拉回来。
Before they even left the marina, Roman, who'd been making headway through the bottle of rum, fell into the water and they had to haul him back in.
他显然已经不适合驾驶了。
He was clearly in no shape to drive.
这是亚历克斯。
This is Alex.
他喝醉了，一直在胡言乱语，笑着喊别去那儿。
He he got drunk and he just was babbling something, laughing like he said, don't go there.
别去那儿。
Don't go there.
他不停地喊着别撞上浅滩。
And he was constantly saying, don't hit the shallows.
到那时他已经完全失控了。
He was he was already like he didn't control the situation by that time.
作为一名负责任的记者，我应该记录在案，罗马对亚历克斯的说法有一个异议。
As a responsible journalist, I should say for the record that Roman does have one objection to Alex's version of events.
顺便说一下，那不是朗姆酒。
It wasn't a Rome, by the way.
那是干邑白兰地。
It was a cognac.
我不明白为什么大家都说是朗姆酒。
I don't know why everybody puts Rome.
那是干邑白兰地。
It was a cognac.
你确定吗？
You sure?
那是拉特雷克牌的。
It was a Lattrec.
是的。
Yes.
那是拉特雷克干邑。
It was Lattrec cognac.
我不明白为什么它会变成罗马。
I don't know why how come it's become Rome.
可能是亚历克斯说那是罗马，但其实是干邑。
It's probably Alex told it was Rome, but it was cognac.
可不是一点点。
Not a little bit.
那是很多。
It was a lot.
我们当时没法工作了。
We was out of commission.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时没法工作了。
I was out of commission.
亚历克斯和亚历克斯自己也喝了几杯。
Alex and Alex had had a few drinks themselves.
但我们完全清醒，一切正常。
But we were perfectly sober and everything.
我们可能喝了几杯，但我们完全清醒。
We might have had a few drinks, but we were perfectly sober.
但你们俩都不会开船？
But neither of you knows how to drive a boat?
不会。
No.
不会。
No.
但我们还是掌控住了。
But we got a hold of it.
没那么难。
It wasn't that hard.
所以我们知道怎么开它。
So we we knew how to drive it.
所以，感觉也没那么难。
So, like, it didn't seem pretty hard.
你打开马达。
You turn on the motor.
你转动船舵，它就挺酷的。
You turn the boat, it turns cool.
不知怎么的，他们设法离开了码头，猛踩油门，朝着远处的海洋公园大桥疾驰而去。
Somehow they managed to get out of the marina, gun the engine, and take off across the water toward the Marine Park Bridge in the distance.
到了那里，他们决定尝试驶向布莱顿海滩，朝一片陆地前进，但迷路了，又折返回开阔水域。
Once there, they decided to try to sail to Brighton Beach and headed toward a landmass, but they got confused and turned back to open water.
他们喝了一些朗姆酒，或者可能是白兰地。
They drank some rum or maybe cognac.
不管怎样，他们喝了很多。
One way or another, they drank a lot of it.
有一刻，他们差点撞上一座小岛。
At one point, they almost crashed into a small island.
汽油快用完了，但他们觉得，万一真出事，至少还能升起帆，慢慢开回家。
Gas was running low, but they figured that if worse came to worse, they could always put up the sails and still make it home.
接着，他们被一股强流困住，船开始原地打转。
Then they got caught in a strong current that turned the boat in circles.
按理说，这时候该开始恐慌了。
The perfect time, you would think, to begin to panic.
或者，如果你是那种一脱离困境、甚至身陷困境时就立刻忘掉麻烦的人，那正是把船上所有信号弹全部扔进水里取乐的绝佳时机。
Or if you're the kind of person who forgets trouble the moment you're out of it or even while you're in it, the perfect time to shoot off all the boat's flares into the water just for fun.
终于，这一连串的错误累积到了临界点。
Finally, the series of mistakes reached a critical mass.
他们没有手机。
They had no cell phone.
以前有人掉进水里就死了。
Romans had died when they fell in the water.
没有信号弹，没有船长，几乎也没有汽油了。
No flares, no captain, and almost no gas.
就连亚历克斯也不得不承认，他们陷入麻烦了。
Even Alex had to admit they were in trouble.
我们不知道自己在哪里。
We didn't know where we were.
然后我们意识到，我们哪儿也到不了了。
And then we realized we weren't gonna make it anywhere.
我们心想，早上再想办法吧。
And we're like, in the morning, we'll figure out what to do.
于是，我们就去睡觉了。
So we, went to sleep.
那是牙买加湾一个美好的春日早晨，阳光洒在水面上，海鸥在头顶鸣叫，我们的年轻休闲艇正安然沉睡。
It was a glorious spring morning on Jamaica Bay, sun glinting off the water, gulls calling overhead as our young pleasure cruisers slumbered.
透过船舱的光线首先唤醒了罗曼和亚历克斯·格卢巴昌斯基，他们走上甲板。
The light filtering into the boat's cabin woke Roman and Alex Glubachansky first, and they came up on deck.
他们看到的景象并不乐观。
What they saw was not good.
经过一夜的漂流，船最终停在了一个小海湾的浅水区，旁边是一个无人居住的陆地。
After drifting through the night, the boat had come to rest in the shallows of a small bay alongside an uninhabited landmass.
在他们身后，可以看到一道长长的痕迹，那是潮水将他们拖入厚泥中的路径。
Stretching out behind them, they could see a long furrow where the tide had dragged them deep into thick mud.
当他们站在那里，眨着眼睛，困惑这一切是怎么发生的时，风又把他们推了整整十英尺往内陆去。
And as they stood there, blinking and wondering how this might have happened, the wind carried them another 10 feet inland.
他们可以看到地平线上的曼哈顿天际线，肯尼迪机场的跑道离得更近一些，四面八方都能看到文明的迹象。
They could see the skyline of Manhattan on the horizon, the runways of JFK Airport a little closer, and signs of civilization in every direction.
他们甚至能看见远处有船只经过，但那些船离得太远，根本不会注意到他们。
They could even see boats passing by in the distance, but these were too far away to take any notice.
显而易见，用一个词来形容，他们就是船难了。
It was obvious that they were, in a word, shipwrecked.
那些宿醉的水手们坐下来，商量该怎么做。
The hungover sailors sat down to decide what to do.
罗曼和格卢巴昌斯基主张等待救援，或者等潮水上涨将他们重新推入水中。
Roman and Glubachansky were in favor of waiting to be rescued or for the tide to rise and pull them out again.
与此同时，亚历克斯正在制定自己的计划。
Meanwhile, Alex was formulating his own plan.
在他们最近的岛屿之外，还有一片陆地，亚历克斯确信那通向某个地方。
Beyond the island they were closest to lay another landmass, which Alex was sure led somewhere.
他的想法是游过去，步行前往文明社会，在某处搭上公交车，然后带人回来救他的朋友们——据亚历克斯回忆，朋友们觉得这计划简直蠢透了。
His idea was to swim to it, walk to civilization, catch a bus somewhere, and bring back help for his friends, who, as Alex remembers it, thought the plan was frankly idiotic.
这些都是岛屿，”罗曼说，而事实上，他以前确实来过这片海湾，有资格这么说。
These are islands, said Roman, who in truth had actually been out on the bay before and was in a position to know.
但亚历克斯坚信罗曼错了。
But Alex was sure that Roman was wrong.
于是亚历克斯脱到只剩内衣。
So Alex stripped to his underwear.
他把自己觉得可能需要的东西装进了一个防水的塑料蛋黄酱罐里。
He put what he thought he might need in a waterproof plastic mayonnaise jar.
他带上了地铁卡，以便到了对岸能坐公交车；还带了一本过期的护照作为身份证明，以及他最喜欢的佛教护身符求个好运。
He brought his MetroCard, for the bus he was gonna swim to, an expired passport for ID, and his favorite Buddhist medallion for luck.
他把衣服包在一层塑料薄膜里，向朋友们道别。
He wrapped his clothes in a cellophane blanket and bid his friends farewell.
罗马看着他消失在浪花中。
Roman watched him disappear into the surf.
当然，我试图阻止他。
Of course, I tried to stop him.
我试着给他一些合理的建议，但他太兴奋了。
I tried to give him reasonable things, but he got a little bit too much excited.
于是我决定给他一个人生的挑战。
So I decided to give him a challenge in life.
我难道该直接把他打倒，说‘别闹了，你知道吗？’？
What what should I just knock him down and say, stop it, you know?
他想游泳，你知道的，他想游泳，于是他就游了，真的游了。
He wanted to swim, you know, he wanted to swim and he swam he swam.
我拼命地游泳，就是为了让自己暖和起来。
I swam really, like, really violently to get myself warmed up.
游到一半时，我累得不行，水也冷得要命，我心里想：天啊，这比我想的糟糕多了。
And by the middle, I got really tired and it was really cold and I'm like, oh, it's much worse than I thought.
还有鸟儿在天上飞，好像在盯着我看。
And and there's birds flying like like peeking on me.
我心里想：这些奇怪的法拉克瓦鸟该不会要啄我吧，你知道的。
I'm like, oh, these crazy strange Farakwa birds are gonna bite me or or something, you know.
我运气真好，突然腿碰到了水底，那一刻我高兴极了。
And I and I got really lucky because my legs suddenly hit the hit the bottom and I'm like and I was so happy when I came out there.
我冷得要命，但心里很开心。
I was so cold, but I was happy.
好的。
Okay.
我确信附近有人类文明，因为高大的建筑就在树后不远处。
And I was definitely sure there was civilization because tall buildings were right behind the trees.
它们就在那儿，桥就在那边。
They were like and the bridge was right over there.
我当时想，终于啊。
And I'm like, oh, finally.
我一边走一边唱歌，鸟儿们冲着我尖叫。
And I and I and I was even singing a song walking and the birds were screaming something to me.
我当时想，是的，是的，你知道的，我成功了。
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, you know, I I made it.
不过我还是不明白，你为什么离开你的朋友们。
I'm still not sure I understand why you left your friends, though.
因为我觉得我们会被困在那里很久，也许一整天都出不来。
Because I thought we were gonna be stuck there for a really long time, maybe for the whole day.
我唯一能做的就是设法到达文明社会。
The only thing I could do is just try to get to civilization.
尤其是这些岛屿，它们一直催促我过去。
And especially these islands, they were pressuring me to go there.
你知道，它们离得那么近。
You know, they were so close.
我当时想，我真是无聊透了。
And I'm like And I got really bored.
你知道，我早上醒来的时候。
You know, I wake up in the morning.
我不想待在游艇的同一个地方，整天想着我们该怎么获救。
I don't want to stay in one spot on the yacht and and and think about how we're gonna get saved.
你知道，我真的想做点什么。
You know, I really wanna do something.
我当时想，好吧。
And I'm like, okay.
我要来一次小小的冒险。
I'm gonna have this this little adventure.
我要出去，试着到达某个地方。
I'm gonna go out and try to make it somewhere.
我真的去做了。
And I did.
但他没有。
Except he didn't.
很快他就意识到，自己确实被困在另一个岛上，除了游过冰冷的海水回去找朋友们，别无他法。
Soon he realized that he was indeed on another island with no way off except to swim back through the freezing water to rejoin his friends.
而他根本不想这么做。
And he wasn't about to do that.
他孤身一人。
He was alone.
于是亚历克斯开始做所有幸存者该做的事。
So Alex set about doing all the things that good castaway should do.
他用沙子堆出巨大的求助信号，希望飞往肯尼迪机场的飞机能看见。
He rode a giant help in the sand for the benefit of the planes landing at JFK.
他绕岛一周，寻找物资。
He circumnavigated the island looking for supplies.
他找到一根棍子和一块红布，做了一面旗帜来向过往的船只发出信号。
He found a stick and a piece of red cloth and made a flag to signal passing ships.
然后他找到了几大块泡沫塑料和一些木头，花了一两个小时制作了一艘筏子，但当他坐上去时，筏子就散架了。
Then he found several big pieces of Styrofoam and some wood and spent an hour or two fashioning a raft, but it collapsed when he sat down on it.
他没有气馁，继续寻找能带他离开岛屿的东西，最终他找到了。
Undeterred, he went back to searching for something that would be his ticket off the island, and then he found it.
那是一具被掏空的水上摩托车的残骸，或者如他所称的‘滑板车’。
It was the hollowed out carcass of a jet ski, or as he calls it, a scooter.
我知道，我100%确定它会浮起来，尽管它被深深地埋在沙子里。
I knew, I 100 knew that it was gonna float, although it was pretty badly dug into the sand.
当我把滑板车挖出来的时候，发生了一件非常糟糕的事。
And, as I was digging out the scooter, something really bad happened.
它的下面有玻璃碎片。
Like, there was pieces of glass under it.
我没看见。
I didn't see.
我只是不停地挖，连一把铲子都没有。
I was just digging and digging, and I didn't have any any shovel or anything.
我的手指被割得很严重。
And I cut my finger really bad.
大量鲜血开始涌出来。
I started getting huge amounts of blood was coming out.
我穿着一件白色T恤。
And, I had this white t shirt.
最后那件T恤完全被血染红了。
It was eventually all in blood.
现在，即使游泳也无法离开岛屿了，因为你知道的，有鲨鱼。
Now there was really no way off the island, even by swimming, because, well, you know, sharks.
这真是个令人沮丧的处境，更让人发疯的是，城市就在眼前。
It was a galling situation, and it was made even more maddening because the city was right there.
我当时心想，我到底是怎么把自己弄到这种境地的？
I was, like, thinking, how in the hell did I get myself into this situation?
我从没想过这种事会在纽约市发生，你知道的，在这么一座大城市里，你甚至能看见十几英里外的摩天大楼。
I I never believed that something like this could happen in the in, like, in New York City, you know, like in such a huge city that you could see sky skyscrapers like 10 miles away.
而在另一边，看着它们，我也对纽约市有点生气。
And on the other side, can die looking at them, you know, like and also I got a little mad at the city Of New York.
我实在想不通，他们至少该设一个公用电话，或者至少有个按钮，能让人知道你在这里，你知道的。
Like I couldn't understand if they had just one payphone there or at least, I don't know, like a button to press to know that you're there, you know.
到晚上六点左右，天色开始变暗了。
By probably 06:00 in the evening, it was getting a little dark.
我所有的兴奋都消失了，变得非常冷，不停地发抖，却完全没有帮助。
All my excitement has fled away and I got very cold, so I was like shaking, know, shivering and no help at all.
于是我心想，天啊，这下可真要糟了。
So I'm like, wow, this is gonna get really bad.
那时候你饿吗？
Were you hungry at this point also?
我又饿又渴。
I was very hungry and I was very thirsty.
我找到了一些青柠。
And I found limes.
我试着把它们打开，但味道太难吃了。
I tried to open them up, but they tasted so nasty.
我根本没想过要吃它们。
I couldn't I I didn't even think about eating them.
除了那些鸭子，根本没有其他食物来源。
Like, there was no source of food other than the ducks.
啊，是的。
Ah, yes.
那些鸭子。
The ducks.
你一定想听听关于鸭子的事。
You'll want to hear about the ducks.
我预计在接下来的一两个小时里不会被救出。
I wasn't going to get rescued in the next hour or two.
我本来计划杀掉一群鸭子，取些温热的血来暖身，你知道的，喝点血，然后剖开它们，用它们来给自己取暖。
I had a plan to kill a bunch of ducks to get some warm blood to warm myself, you know, so so to drink some blood and to cut them open and use them, like, to warm myself.
我有个奇怪的想法，想把它们当拖鞋穿。
I had this strange idea about, use them as slippers.
之后我还产生了一个幻觉般的念头，用鸭子做筏子，漂在水面上。
I even had after that, I even had this psychedelic idea of, floating on the ducks, making a raft a raft out of the ducks.
想象一下，一个男人身上绑着绳子，牵着鸭子在水上漂浮。
Imagine a a man with strings attached to the ducks floating on the water.
这就像是个鸭子骑手，你知道的。
So it's like this duck rider, you know.
对于一个俄罗斯徒步者来说，捡起一只鸭子，不只是杀死它，还要吃掉它，这完全正常。
Totally normal for a a Russian hiker to go and pick up a duck and not just to kill it, but to eat it,
我还是没法理解，你真的能走过去直接抓起一只鸭子吗？
like I'm still I I can't I don't like, you could just go over and pick up a duck?
你是怎么抓到鸭子的？
Like, how did you catch the duck?
哦，你就拿根棍子追它就行了。
Oh, you just go after it with a stick.
我的意思是，你是个普通人。
I mean, you're a human being.
你比鸭子聪明多了。
You got more brains than a duck.
你完全可以抓到它。
You can catch it.
但我其实没真打算那么做。
But I wasn't really thinking about doing it.
我并没有幻想过要杀鸭子之类的事。
I wasn't like fantasizing about killing ducks or anything like that.
我只是在想，如果真到了那一步，我就得弄点血来喝，你知道的。
I was just thinking that if it comes to that, I'll have to I'll have to get some blood to drink, you know.
我知道这听起来很暴力，但我当时是在为生存而战，你知道的。
I know it sounds very violent, but, like, I was fighting for my life, you know.
人们听到我被困在离文明这么近的岛上，还要面对鲨鱼和鸭子，可能会觉得好笑。
Like, people might laugh when they hear about being trapped on an island that's so close to civilization and the sharks and the ducks.
我知道这情况听起来很滑稽，但我真的体会到了身处荒岛是什么感觉。
I knew it was it's a funny situation, but I really got the feeling of what what is it like being on a desert island.
我感觉自己就像鲁滨逊。
I felt like Robinson Crusoe.
你知道吗？
You know?
我知道独自一人、远离文明、无人相助时是什么滋味，还要面对这么巨大的困境。
I knew what it was like to be by yourself, away from civilization with no help, and you're facing this huge problem.
身边唯一的人就是你自己，而死亡的幽灵就在附近。
And the only person that's near you is you and the the ghost of your death close by.
你知道吗？
You know?
所以我能闻到空气中属于我自己的死亡气息。
So I could smell the smell my smell my death in the air.
结果发现，亚历克斯被困的那座岛叫做拉弗勒德岛，距离布鲁克林海岸仅二十分钟船程。
It turns out that the island where Alex was stranded is called Ruffled Bar, and it lies only a twenty minute boat ride away from the coast of Brooklyn.
亚历克斯非但没有因为这段经历感到创伤或羞愧，反而最想再回到那里去。
Far from being traumatized or ashamed of his exploits, Alex wanted nothing more than to go back out there.
而在我这间昂贵又狭小的公寓里，我渴望亲眼看看这样一个地方——在那里，你能独自一人置身荒野，闻到自己死亡的气息，却仍处于理论上能通勤到曼哈顿中城的距离之内。
And from the vantage of my overpriced, undersized apartment, I wanted to see a place where you could be totally alone in the wilderness, smelling your own death in the air, while in at least theoretical commuting distance to Midtown Manhattan.
于是，我们租了一艘船，带我们前往拉弗勒德岛。
So we hired a boat to take us to Ruffled Bar.
事实上，得知这样一个地方确实存在时，我并没有像有些人那样感到完全惊讶。
In truth, I wasn't as completely surprised as some might be to learn that such a place exists.
我小时候住在牙买加湾的岛屿附近，那个地方叫卡纳西。
I grew up near the islands of Jamaica Bay, in a neighborhood called Canarsie.
小时候，我和朋友们会穿过我家附近空置的地块，去探索岸边垃圾与自然交织的景象。
And when I was little, my friends and I would cut through the empty lots near my house to explore the mix of trash and nature on the shoreline.
那是一个完全不同于我大部分城市童年经历的地方。
It was a place totally apart from the rest of my mostly urban childhood.
一个连住得仅隔十个或十五个街区的朋友都不知道存在的秘密地方。
A secret place that my friends who lived even 10 or 15 blocks away were unaware existed.
但随后，纽约周围那些小岛一直处在城市的边缘，承载着市民要么不知情、要么宁愿视而不见的各种活动。
But then, the smaller islands around New York have always occupied a weird place on the edge of the city, home to all sorts of enterprise that the citizenry either doesn't know about or prefers not to see.
疗养院、监狱、无名墓地，以及宏伟却失败的计划。
Sanitariums and prisons, potter's fields, and grand failed schemes.
Ruffled Bar 本身曾是其中几个此类计划的所在地。
Ruffle Bar itself had been the site of several of the latter.
自内战以来，它曾设有渡轮站、度假酒店，甚至一度存在过一个由约四十栋建筑组成的短暂而注定失败的社区。
Since the civil war, it had housed a ferry stop, a resort hotel, and even a short lived doomed community of some 40 buildings.
我们在一处混凝土地基前停了下来。
We stopped in front of a concrete foundation.
这里曾经有一栋建筑。
A building of some kind was here.
哦，看啊。
Oh, look.
这东西真酷。
This is a cool thing.
这是这里留存下来的一件二战时期的物品。
This is one of the World War two things that's here.
比如，你打开它，就能进去。
Like, you open them up and you can go inside.
里面有个房间。
There's like a room in there.
可能是个掩体之类的东西。
Might be like something like a bunker or something.
你看到这里的绳子了吗？
You see the rope here?
这根绳子非常老旧了。
And the rope is really old.
让我拍张照。
Let me take a picture of this.
这里已经没有任何建筑物了。
There are no buildings left here.
这个岛屿已经回归到一片原始荒野的状态。
The island has returned to a deeply wild state.
周围是一堵茂密的灌木墙，几棵树上盘旋着一些阴森的海鸥。
There's a wall of dense brush and a few trees around which sinister gulls are circling.
我们经过一群鸭子，它们瞥了一眼亚历克斯，便明智地游开了。
We pass a flock of ducks who take one look at Alex and wisely move away.
我觉得我一直在想，那辆电动滑板车到底在哪？因为按照我们转弯的方向，这里应该有更多的海岸线才对。
I think it's I'm I'm really thinking about where the heck is the scooter because it seems like it should be like as we turn in, there should be more shoreline here.
而且说实话，也许吧。
And really, maybe maybe the Yep.
就是这样。
That's exactly it.
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
这就是我那辆滑板车
That this is the scooter I
我试着挖出来过。
tried to dig out.
让我
Let me
给你看看。
show you.
也许，是的，也许你会看到你的玻璃和东西。
Maybe, yeah, maybe you'll see your glass and stuff.
哦，太棒了。
Oh, it's awesome.
她不喜欢什么东西。
She doesn't like something.
当我们寻找亚历克斯在直升机救援的慌乱中遗落的佛教护身符时，我们走过一片厚厚的干草地，草被压得像地毯一样。
As we search for Alex's Buddhist medallion that he'd left in the excitement of the helicopter rescue, we walk across a plane of thick, dry grass, matted down like a carpet.
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在下面，你能听到贝壳碎裂的声音和一些神秘生物四处窜动。
Underneath, you can hear shells crunching and mysterious things scurrying around.
然而，提醒我们身处大都市的迹象始终近在咫尺。
Still, reminders that we are, in fact, in a major metropolis are always close at hand.
首先，是那些垃圾。
For one thing, there's the garbage.
一堆塑料和漂流木，还有鞋子、方向盘、药瓶、瘪掉的气球、一台洗衣机和烘干机、几台冰箱，奇怪的是还有船——三艘完好无损的船，连船桨都齐全。
Piles of plastic and driftwood, but also shoes, steering wheels, prescription bottles, deflated balloons, a washer dryer, several refrigerators, and oddly boats, three perfectly intact ones complete with oars.
不过，我犹豫着要不要把这些东西指给亚历克斯看，但公平地说，这些东西恐怕太重了，他根本拖不动去水边。
I hesitate to point these out to Alex, though, to be fair, they're probably too heavy for him to have dragged to the water.
然后，还有这个文明的痕迹。
And then there's this reminder of civilization.
等一下。
Hold on.
是的。
Yeah.
是的
Yeah.
他一直离城市很近，只要有一部手机，半小时内就能安全地躺在床上了。
He was always close enough to the city that simply having a cell phone would have had him tucked safely into bed within half an hour.
亚历克斯在七小时后终于获救，多亏了罗曼和格卢巴昌斯基。
Alex was finally rescued after seven hours, thanks to Roman and Glubachansky.
回到船上后，他们玩得正开心。
Back on the boat, they were having a fine old time.
附近有一架警用直升机在进行训练，而他们自己显然也不乏荒岛求生的套路，已经发现可以用镜子向直升机发信号。
A police helicopter was performing drills nearby, and apparently no slouches in the cliched castaway department themselves, they had figured out that they could signal it with a mirror.
但为什么要着急呢？
But why rush?
我们真的很享受在那里度过的时光。
We really enjoyed the time staying there.
我们只是坐在船上，抽着最后一点烟草。
We was just, you know, sitting on a boat and, you know, smoking the last tobacco that we have left.
我们达成协议，如果真的饿得不行了，就绝不吃彼此。
And we make a deal that we're not gonna eat each other if we're really gonna get hungry.
所以， basically，我们玩得很开心。
So, basically, we was having fun.
就是，你知道的，一点点而已。
You know, just a little bit.
一点麻烦都没有。
No no hassle.
什么都没有。
No nothing.
就是很安静。
You know, very quiet.
天气很好。
Nice weather.
哦，所以你们并没有，你们其实是故意延迟向直升机求救，就为了享受这美好的一天？
Oh, so you didn't so you you were actually holding off signaling the helicopters while you had a nice day?
是的
Yeah.
当然
Of course.
那天天气很好。
It was a nice day.
然而，当夜幕降临，香烟也抽完时，朋友们觉得是时候该离开了。
Still, as it began to get dark and the cigarettes ran out, the friends thought it was probably time to get a move on.
不久，一架直升机抵达，将他们从船上救走。
A helicopter soon arrived and airlifted them off the boat.
直到他们安全上岸，裹着毯子、吃着免费的饼干时，才有人偶然提起，船上其实还有第三位乘客。
It wasn't until they were safely ashore, wrapped in blankets and being fed complimentary cookies, that either of them happened to mention that there'd been a third passenger.
当直升机回来接亚历克斯时，寒冷、疲惫和脱水已让他陷入一种恍惚、近乎狂乱的状态。
When the helicopter came back for Alex, cold, exhaustion, and dehydration had left him in a trance like, almost wild state.
对他而言，这座岛将永远是一个可能存在怪物的地方。
And for him, this island will always be a place where maybe there'd be monsters.
那正是我在这里的时候，我在想这地方是不是完全荒野。
And that was actually when I was here, I was wondering if it's, like, totally wild place.
这里除了鸟之外还有其他动物吗？
Are there any animals here other than birds?
我本来还希望能看到一些酷炫的动物，比如獾之类的。
I was maybe hoping to see some cool animal like a badger or something.
我不确定。
I don't know.
其实我非常喜欢獾。
I like badgers a lot, actually.
是吗？
Is that right?
是的。
Yeah.
它是我最喜欢的动物之一。
It's one of my favorite animal.
你知道吗，我喜欢獾的原因可能也是一样的。
You know, I like badgers for the same reason probably.
我喜欢犹他州，虽然我从来没去过那里。
I like the state of Utah where I never was.
你懂的？
You know?
这就像某种……叫什么来着？
It's like something that has some kind of what's it called?
就像有一种秘密，或者它在隐藏什么，或者它们以一种可能对我藏着什么酷东西的方式吸引着我。
Like a secret or it's hiding or it's like they they attract me in the way that they they might be hiding something cool from me.
在和亚历克斯相处了数小时之后，我发现我最欣赏他的就是这一点。
And that's what, after many hours spent with Alex, I find myself liking about him the most.
他坚持在每一个他注视的地方寻找神秘与冒险。
His insistence on finding mystery and adventure everywhere he looks.
嘲笑这一点很容易，把这一切都当成青少年的愚蠢行为一笔勾销。
It's easy to laugh at that, to write it all off as adolescent stupidity.
但如果不仅如此呢？
But what if it's more than that?
如果这也是一种青春期的魔法呢？
What if it's also a kind of adolescent magic?
实际上，我觉得这件事的发生是必然的，你知道吗？
Actually, I'm thinking that this needed to happen, you know?
我想，如果我是个无聊的人，整天待在家里，做个书呆子，我根本不会遇到这种情况。
I think I think, like, if I was a boring person and I would just, like, stay at home all the time and be, a nerd, I would never get into this situation.
所以我觉得，这一切之所以发生，纯粹是因为我在对的时间遇到了对的人，处在对的境遇中，你知道吗？
So I think this happened strictly because I was with the right people at the right time, like, in the right situation, you know?
想想看。
Think about that.
从每一个角度来看，亚历克斯几乎都是错的。
Every step of the way, by almost any measure, Alex could not have been more wrong.
要将这一切扭转为对的时间、对的地点，需要一种特别的优雅。
It takes a special kind of grace to turn that into right time, right place.
你怎能不羡慕这样的生活呢？
And how can you help but envy that?
谁不愿意生活在一个这样的世界里：只要你相信自己该去冒险，就真的能去？
Who wouldn't rather live in a world where if you believe you should have an adventure, you do?
在这个世界里，你的每一个错误都不会限制你的生活，反而会拓展它？
In which each of your mistakes doesn't narrow your life but expands it?
在这个世界里，最糟糕的事也不过是感到无聊，而你可以躺在风暴肆虐的海面上入睡，相信当你醒来时，如果足够幸运，你就会置身于犹他州。
In which the worst thing that could possibly happen is being bored, and you can go to sleep on stormy seas and trust that when you wake up, if you're very lucky, you'll be in Utah.
我想说的是，亚历克斯做了一件我哪怕想一千万年也想不到可能做到的事。
What I'm trying to say is this, Alex does something I never in a million years would have thought possible.
他让我觉得，再次当个青少年或许还挺酷的。
He makes me think it might be cool to be a teenager again.
有一个故事说，早在19世纪30年代，一艘载着54000美元墨西哥黄金的船在牙买加湾外被海盗劫持，宝藏被埋在了拉费尔角附近的某个地方。
There's a story that back in the eighteen thirties, a ship carrying $54,000 in Mexican gold was hijacked by pirates outside Jamaica Bay and that the treasure was buried somewhere near Ruffel Bar.
我们从岛上回来的路上，我告诉了亚历克斯这个故事，他听得非常专注。
On our way back from the island, I tell Alex this, and he listens with great interest.
如果他找到了宝藏，他想知道，他能留下它吗？
If he found the treasure, he wants to know, could he keep it?
也许吧，”我说，“只要他不告诉任何人。
Maybe, I say, if he didn't tell anybody.
对此，亚历克斯的回答正如我所预料的那样，是他唯一可能给出的答案。
To which Alex answers precisely as I know he will, the only way he possibly can.
他说，但如果我告诉所有人呢？
He says, but what if I told everybody?
布雷特·马丁是《GQ》杂志的记者，也是《难搞的男人：创意革命幕后》一书的作者。
Brett Martin, he's a correspondent for GQ magazine and the author of Difficult Men, Behind the Scenes of a Creative Revolution.
今天的节目，正如我之前所说，是重播。
Today's program, like I said earlier, is a rerun.
亚历克斯现在37岁了。
Alex is now 37.
他是一名DJ，以“鸭子猎人”为名创作电子音乐，这个名字实际上源自这个故事中的鸭子。
He's a DJ, making electronic music under the name duck hunter, which is a name actually inspired by the ducks in this story.
他在Instagram上的账号是duck hunter官方，他的音乐也可以在SoundCloud和Spotify上收听。
He's at duck hunter official on Instagram, and his music's on SoundCloud and Spotify.
接下来要说的是关于芝加哥的一件事，所有不在芝加哥的人都不相信，但这件事确实完全真实。
Coming up, the thing about Chicago that nobody outside Chicago believes about Chicago, but that actually is totally and completely true.
马上继续，来自芝加哥公共广播电台的节目，敬请期待。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
这是艾拉·格拉斯的《美国生活》。
This is American Life from Ira Glass.
每周，我们都会选定一个主题，为您呈现围绕该主题的多种不同类型的故事。
Each week in a program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme.
今天的节目，聚焦于城市的阴影之下，讲述那些对我们大多数人而言看不见、却近在咫尺的事情。
Today's show, in the shadow of the city, stories about things happening out of sight for most of us, but very close to us.
我们已经进入节目的第二幕。
We've arrived at act two of our program.
第二幕：水上的问题之桥。
Act two, Troubled Bridge Over Water.
2003年，在世界另一端的中国南京城边缘，一位名叫陈萨的先生。
So in 2003, on the edge of a city halfway around the world in Nanjing, China, a man named Chen Sah, Mr.
陈先生离开妻子和女儿，前往一座桥上。
Chen, headed out to a bridge away from his wife and daughter.
他每天在那里待上十个小时。
He was there for ten hours a day.
他选择的这座桥是一座混凝土建造的共产主义巨构，长达四英里，桥身布满歌颂工人的标语，有四条机动车道，上层人行道上人潮汹涌，下层是两条穿越长江、通往拥有九百万人口的南京城的铁路线。
The bridge he chose is this concrete communist monstrosity, four miles long, covered with slogans that celebrate the worker, four lanes of traffic, thousands of pedestrians on the top deck, two train tracks on the lower deck over the Yangtze River into Nanjing, a city of 9,000,000.
当时的估计数据并不精确，但普遍认为每周大约有一人从这座桥上跳下自杀。
Estimates are fuzzy, but the best guess back then was that one person per week took their own life jumping off this bridge.
顺便提一下，这个故事将涉及自杀话题。
Just a heads up, by the way, that this story is gonna discuss suicide.
陈先生决定尝试阻止这些人跳桥，起初他独自一人，后来偶尔有志愿者加入。
Mister Chen decided that he wanted to try to keep these people from jumping, and he started to, single handedly at first, then with an occasional volunteer.
他记录这段经历的博客，是你可以想象到的最沉静、最内敛、毫无自夸的救人故事。
The blog that he kept about this is the most sober, taciturn, non boastful account of saving lives that you could possibly imagine.
偶尔，陈先生会流露自己的感受。
Occasionally, Mr.
陈会插入自己的情绪。
Chen will insert his feelings.
他在一篇日记中告诫自己：小心沉重的想法。
Beware heavy thoughts, he declares to himself in one entry.
在另一篇中，他谈到自己救下的那位老人：但愿他能早日摆脱这阴影。
How I wish that he will soon be free of this shadow, he says about an old man that he saved in another.
但大多数时候，都只是事实。
But mostly, it's just the facts.
以下是来自中文的翻译。
Here's a translation from the Chinese.
7月25日上午10点30分，我发现一名女子俯身趴在桥栏上哭泣。
On July 25, at 10:30 in the morning, I discovered a woman lying on the bridge railing on her belly, weeping.
我走向她。
I went to her.
她擦了擦眼睛。
She wiped her eyes.
她说自己只是在玩，然后朝桥中央走去。
She said she was just playing, and walked toward the center of the bridge.
我跟着她，她很平常地拨了手机。
I went with her, and she, very ordinarily, dialed her cell phone.
我凌晨一点十分回来时，发现她已经爬上了桥栏。
When I returned at 01:10, I discovered that she had already climbed up on the bridge railing.
我制住了她。
I restrained her.
我强迫她上了她的摩托车。
I forced her onto her moped.
她来自南京江阳地区。
She is from Nanjing's Jiangyang District.
她姓赵，今年45岁。
Her last name is Zhao, and today she's 45 years old.
因为她的丈夫姓李，51岁，对她施暴并虐待她，她觉得自杀反而更好。
Because her husband, surnamed Li, and 51 years old, is violent towards her and mistreats her, she thought killing herself would be better.
然而，每当她想到自己15岁的儿子时，就会沉默下来。
However, she is silent when she thinks of her 15 year old son.
2010年3月21日。
03/21/2010.
昨天下午3点05分，我在桥中央救下了一名年轻男子。
Yesterday at 03:05PM, I saved a young man in the middle of the bridge.
他喝了很多酒，正打算翻过桥栏跳下去。
He had drunk a lot of alcohol and was planning to jump over the bridge railing.
我立刻制住了他，并把他拖到了安全地带。
I at once restrained him and dragged him to safety.
在交谈中，我了解到他的情况其实挺可笑的。
As we spoke, I learned his situation was actually quite funny.
他想跳桥是因为去年，他妻子答应每月从他1400元的工资中返还200元，让他自由支配。
He was thinking about jumping because last year, his wife promised to start returning to him 200 yuan of his monthly 1,400 yuan salary to spend as he pleased.
但她一直没履行她的承诺。
But she had not honored her promise.
昨天下午，他和朋友们一起喝酒，喝得越多，就越生气。
Yesterday afternoon, he started drinking with his friends, and the more he drank, the angrier he got.
他觉得自杀能让她意识到，他连一分钱都没拿到。
He believed that killing himself would make her realize that not 1¢ had come to him.
然后他又说了一件有趣的事。
He then said another funny thing.
他母亲的同事说，这座桥闹鬼，会夺走人的灵魂。
His mother's colleague said that the bridge is haunted and could take one's soul.
我说，这桥是被酒鬼的鬼魂缠上了。
I said, it is haunted by drunk ghosts.
然后我把他送回了家。
And I took him home.
这是我近年来最平静、最简单的救援了。
This was the calmest, simplest rescue I've made in recent years.
陈先生的许多记录都是关于那些他没能救下的人。
Many of Mr.
陈先生的许多记录都是关于那些他没能救下的人。
Chen's entries are about the people that he does not save.
2月15日清晨5点30分，一名中年男子跳桥自杀。
February 15, 05:30 in the morning, a middle aged man jumped to his death.
据报道，当时他手中握着一张家人的照片。
It's reported at this time that he was holding a photograph of his family.
2008年8月10日，星期六下午1点40分，一名年轻女子在桥南端以东300米处爬上了桥栏。
08/10/2008, Saturday afternoon at 01:40PM, a young woman 300 meters from the south end of the bridge climbed onto the bridge railing.
我立刻发动了摩托车，但因为加速太快，摩托车漏油并起火了。
I immediately started my moped, but because I accelerated too quickly, the moped leaked oil and ignited.
我不得不跑向她。
I had to run to her.
但当我距离她200米时，她跳进了长江。
But when I was 200 meters away, she jumped into the Yangtze.
每年年底，陈先生
At the end of each year, Mr.
都会对桥上发生的情况进行一次盘点。
Chen does an inventory of how things are going on the bridge.
这一条来自2009年。
This one is from the 2009.
他写道，自2003年开始以来，到那时他已经救了174名企图自杀的人，在桥上劝说了5150人，另在电话中劝说了16000人。
He wrote that, since he began back in 2003, he'd saved at that point one hundred seventy four people from killing themselves, counseled another five thousand one hundred fifty on the bridge and 16,000 on the phone.
有51000人曾给他发过短信。
51,000 people had texted him.
到那时为止，他志愿服务的总天数为646天。
Total days volunteering, to that point, 646.
迈克·帕特尼蒂写了一篇关于陈先生的杂志文章。
Mike Paterniti wrote a magazine article about Mr.
陈先生。
Chen.
你多年前通过新闻报道第一次听说了他。
You first heard about him years ago from news reports.
我用谷歌翻译读了他的一些博客内容。
I read a bit of his blog in Google Translate.
我觉得我必须见见这个人，他独自一人决定拯救如此多的生命，于是我飞往中国。
I felt like he had to meet this man who, on his own, had decided to rescue so many people and flew to China.
我想也许我能亲眼看到他工作时的样子。
I thought maybe maybe I'll see him in action.
也许我能亲眼看到他救下某个人。
Maybe I'll get to see him save somebody.
他的背景故事，我的意思是，我其实是从柬埔寨来的，当时正在报道这些种族灭绝审判。
Just his backstory, I mean, I actually came I had come from Cambodia, so I was I was covering these genocide trials.
所以你知道，我并没有对人性抱有太乐观的看法，但我以为我能在那儿找到一些希望。
So I I wasn't you know, I didn't have the most optimistic feelings about humanity, and I thought I was gonna find something there.
你说你希望能找到一个充满希望的人物。
You said you'd find, like, a hopeful figure.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，希望、毅力和慷慨。
I mean, hope, perseverance, generosity.
但一踏上桥，我就意识到这些想法完全荒谬。
But as soon as I got on the bridge, I realized that all those notions were completely absurd.
我的意思是，我立刻感到沮丧。
I mean, I I got instantly depressed.
首先，这座桥长达四英里，而只有一个人在那里试图分辨谁会跳下去。
First of all, there's this four mile long bridge and this one man out there sort of trying to pick out who was gonna jump.
是的。
Yeah.
你在文章中提到过，首先有汽车，有火车，桥在晃动。
You read in the article at one point, you said, first of there's the cars, and there's the trains, and the bridge is shaking.
然后就是一片人海，成千上万的人在雨中撑着伞来来回回地走过桥，而他只是一个人来回走动。
And then there's just, like, a sea of people, thousands of people in the rain with umbrellas going back and forth on the bridge, and he's just one one guy kind of walking up and down.
他有一辆小型踏板车，偶尔会在这座桥上慢悠悠地兜一圈，但即便如此，这景象也显得有点滑稽。
And he has this little moped and does a little cruise on the bridge every every once in a while, but even that is, you know, somewhat a somewhat comical sight to behold.
你知道，他骑着这辆破旧的小踏板车，在人群中嘟嘟嘟地穿行，脖子上还挂着一副大大的望远镜。
You know, he's on this little broken down moped putt putting through the crowd with his big pair of binoculars around his neck.
我一度怀疑，这事儿是不是根本就不是真的。
You know, I sort of thought maybe this isn't even real.
也许这个博客完全是他想象出来的，或者是他每周编造的一个虚构故事。
Like, maybe this blog is a complete figment of his imagination or a fiction that he constructs, you know, once a week.
我真的看不出这家伙怎么救得了这里的人。
And I just don't see how this guy can save anybody out here.
你在文章里写到，当你在桥上时，他根本不愿意跟你说话。
And and you write in your article, he won't he won't really talk to you when when you're when you're there in the bridge.
是的。
Yeah.
他非常脾气暴躁，根本不肯理我。
He is really grumpy and unwilling to acknowledge me.
所以，你能给我讲讲你们俩在桥上典型的对话吗？
And and so and so give me a typical exchange between the two of you on the bridge.
我想我确实问过他，为什么站在这里，而不是这座四英里长桥上的其他地方？
I think I did ask, like, why are you standing here as opposed to any other spot on this four mile long bridge?
他转过身，举起望远镜，朝河面聚焦，然后放下望远镜，转向另一边，再次举起望远镜，聚焦在人群的另一个方向。
And he turned and lifted his binoculars and focused out toward the river, and then brought his binoculars down, turned the other way, put his binoculars up, and focused in the other direction on the crowd.
就这样了。
Well, that's it.
他甚至都不回应。
He doesn't even respond.
没有。
No.
就好像我根本不存在一样。
It wasn't like it was like I wasn't even there.
就好像我是个幽灵。
It was like I was some ghost.
我大致讲了讲这些情况，然后问，也许我们换个时间谈会更好吗？
And I sort of went through some of this, and then I said, maybe, you know, is there a better time for us to talk?
他对翻译说，你知道的，我可以在吃午饭时跟你谈。
And he said to the translator, you know, I can talk to you at lunch.
所以你和他们一起去吃午饭了，然后那里发生了什么？
So you go to lunch with them, and and what and what happens there?
嗯，我们去了桥附近一家他们称之为家庭餐馆的地方。
Well, so we were in a little what they call family restaurant near the bridge.
如果那里没有家庭顾客，也就是说只有工人，他们喝得相当凶，主要是谷物酒和啤酒。
And if there are no families present, I mean, it's just workers, and they're pretty hard drinking, in this case, grain alcohol and beer.
是的。
Mhmm.
于是我们坐下，陈先生邀请了一位男士加入我们，他叫。
And so we sit down at the table, and Mr.
陈先生邀请了一位男士加入我们，他叫。
Chen has invited a man to join us whose name is Mr.
施。
Shi.
然后我们上了一些食物，陈先生和施先生
And then we are served some food, and Mr.
陈先生和施先生
Chen and Mr.
陈先生和施先生开始大量饮用粮食酒精，我也开始跟着他们喝，因为那样才显得融洽。
Shi started really drinking a lot of grain alcohol, and I started to sort of drink with them because it was the convivial thing to do.
然后我突然意识到，如果我还继续跟他们喝下去，我非得醉倒不可。
And then I just realized, I I I'm gonna pass out if I try to stay with these guys.
我的意思是，
I mean,
我 literally 头昏眼花，整个房间都在旋转。
I'm literally I was my head was spitting, and I was you know, the whole room was revolving.
我当时就那样，而他显然很失望。
I just was like and he was, you know, very disappointed.
于是他这么说，你知道的，我们就在这儿喝酒。
And and so he sort of said, you know, just we're drinking here.
这可是我们午餐时的惯例。
This is what we do at lunch.
喝酒能让人放得开，所以，你知道的，跟上节奏吧。
And drinking loosens the tongue, and so, you know, get with the program.
如果你做不到，那不如你干脆穿条裙子好了？
And if you if you can't, then why don't we you know, why don't you put on a dress?
但后来在午餐时，他确实稍微多说了点。
But then he you know, at lunch, he definitely opened up a little bit more.
我的意思是，他回答问题时并不看我，但他还是回答了，而且更广泛地谈起了桥上的生活。
I mean, he he wasn't looking at me when he answered questions, but he was answering them, and he was speaking more expansively about life on the bridge.
他解释过为什么这么做吗？
Did he explain why it is that he does this?
他说他读过一篇关于这座桥和有人从桥上跳下去的报纸文章。
He said he had read a newspaper article about the bridge and about people jumping off the bridge.
他自己在南京郊外的农村长大。
And and he himself had grown up in the country outside of Nanjing.
所以他特别能理解那些从村庄来到桥上结束生命的人，他们的生活艰难而充满绝望，他完全能体会这一点。
So he really related in particular to these people from the villages who came to the bridge to end their lives and whose lives were hard and full of despair, and he completely understood that.
于是你回到桥上，他骑着他的小摩托离开了，然后，是的。
So you go back up to the bridge, and and and he he putters off on his moped, and then and then Yeah.
然后他跳上摩托车开始他的巡逻。
And then he jumped on his moped to go on his rounds.
我没什么事可做，就转向翻译苏珊，说：嘿。
And I didn't have anything to do, but I turned to the translator, Susan, and I said, hey.
我们到桥上散散步吧。
Let's take a little walk out on the bridge.
于是我们开始沿着桥面行走，边走边聊。
And so we started walking out over the bridge, and we're chatting a little bit.
这时有个人摇摇晃晃地从我们身边经过，我没太在意，但这个人离我们大约二十到三十英尺远，他似乎正往护栏上爬。
And this guy kind of came lurching by, and he I didn't pay any attention to him, but this guy's about 20 feet, 30 feet ahead of us, and he seems to be climbing up on the railing.
就在那时，我大喊了一声：嘿。
And at that point, I just yelled, hey.
然后我对苏珊说：他要跳下去了。
And then I said to Susan, he's gonna go over.
我开始朝他跑去，苏珊也跟着跑了起来。
And I started running for him, and Susan came running.
我脑海中突然闪现出陈先生说过的话：
And I had that one little flash of Mr.
你知道吗，有些人如果有机会，真的会拖着你一起走。
Chen saying, you know, some of these some of these people will really take you with them if they can.
他们绝望到了那种地步。
They're that desperate.
我那时手里还拿着那盏小手电筒。
And I I had that little flashlight.
这样死真是太蠢了。
This would be a stupid way to die.
如果我因为这家伙死掉，那就太荒谬了。
This would be ridiculous if I Yeah.
和这家伙一起完蛋。
Go down with this guy.
但事情并没有发展到那一步，因为当我跑到他身边时，我的脚踩在混凝土支撑结构的内侧，我试图把他翻回朝向我，但他完全瘫软了。
But it didn't come to that because when I got to him, I had my foot on the inside of the sort of the concrete buttress, and and I tried to flip him back toward me, and he was completely limp.
他就像一袋木屑一样。
He was like a bag of sawdust.
他直接翻回来压在我身上，而我根本没怎么用力拉他。
He he just flipped right back onto me, and I hadn't even really pulled him that hard.
很难解释，但每当我想到这件事，我就浑身起鸡皮疙瘩。
It's hard to explain, but, like, when I think of it, I just get I'd have to say, I just I I have just goosebumps all over my body right now.
为什么？
Because?
因为他打算自杀。
Because because he he was gonna kill himself.
而且因为他没有。
And because he didn't.
所以你感觉好吗？
So did you feel good?
没有。
No.
我感觉不好。
I didn't feel good.
我有点想吐。
I felt, like, kinda nauseous.
我心想，哇，你知道吗，每周都真有人干这种事。
I felt like, wow, you know, they're they're every week somebody actually does this thing.
即使我们把陈先生克隆出来，
And even if we were to clone Mr.
有两百个他在外面，他们还是会在每周找到某个人，让他想出办法来干这事。
Chen and there were 200 of them out there, They'd probably still want a week someone would would figure out how to do it.
然后，天哪。
And then, like, oh my god.
接下来谁来？
Who's coming next?
你知道的。
You know?
于是陈先生又回来了。
And so and so mister Chen comes back.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
陈先生骑着他的摩托车过了好一阵子才回来。
Well, it took mister Chen a while to come back on his moped.
但当他出现时，人群自动让开了。
But when he came when he showed up, the crowd sort of parted.
我当时正抓着一个叫范平的男人。
And I was holding on to this man whose name was Fan Ping.
他对我说：‘退开一点’，我觉得这主意太糟了，因为我们正站在护栏旁边。
And he said to me, step away, which I thought was a really bad idea because we're standing right next to the railing.
但他对局势和所有细节都掌控得非常好，所以我还是退开了。
But he had such command of the situation and all the nuances of the situation that I just stepped away.
我就松了手，退开了。
I just let go and stepped away.
然后他说：‘我想给你拍张照’，这让我觉得莫名其妙，根本搞不懂他什么意思。
And and then he said, I wanna take your picture, which seemed like, you know, I didn't even understand what that was about.
你给那个男人拍照了？
You take the picture of the guy?
是的。
Yeah.
嗯。
Mhmm.
于是他掏出手机或相机拍了张照，然后说：现在我觉得我应该打你一拳。
So he pulls out his cell phone or the camera, takes a picture, and then he says, and now I think I should punch you in the face.
天啊。
Holy.
接着他说：你居然自称是中国人。
Then he said, you call yourself Chinese.
你怎么敢？
How dare you?
你怎么敢自称是中国人，今天还跑到这座桥上来寻死？
How dare you call yourself Chinese come up on this bridge with the intention of killing yourself today?
你知道吗，你是某人的儿子。
You know, you you are somebody's son.
你知道吗，你怎么敢？
You know, how dare you?
我要打你一拳。
I am gonna punch you in the face.
我现在就要揍你。
I'm gonna punch you right now.
当然，人群开始涌上来，因为他们以为他真的要打人。
And the crowd, of course, is, like, crushing in because they think there's gonna I think he's gonna punch them.
我坐在这里，听着你说这些，嘴巴都张开了。
And I'm just sitting here, like, with my mouth open as you're saying this.
于是他又往前迈了一步，范平说：你看。
So he kinda takes another step in closer, and Fan Ping says, look.
我这么做，只是因为我的父亲曾是红军，他所有的残疾保险都被取消了，根本没法活下去，我是个不孝子，因为我无法养活他，而且我们所有的文件都在一场大火中烧毁了，没有这些文件，我们根本得不到任何帮助。
I'm only doing this because my father was in the Red Army, and he's lost all of his disability insurance, and there's no way for him to live anymore, and I'm a lousy son because I can't provide for him, and all of our documents burned in a fire, and without those documents, we we can't get any help.
陈先生说，
And Mr.
没有什么事情值得这样。
Chen says, there there's nothing worth this, you know.
没有我们解决不了的问题。
There's no problem that we can't solve.
然后他再靠近一点，用右手轻轻抓住他的肘部，像是在安抚他。
And then he moves in a little bit closer, and he touches his arm to sort of holding him by the elbow with, like, his right hand.
但陈先生说，我觉得我能帮上你。
But mister Chen says, I I, you know, I think I think I can help you.
我不喜欢这样。
I don't I don't like this.
我不喜欢你在这里的做法。
I don't like what you're doing here.
这不是解决问题的方式。
This isn't the way to solve anything.
就在那时，他们彼此承诺，周一早上在陈先生的办公室见面。
And at that point, they have each other's word that they're gonna meet on Monday morning at mister Chen's office.
迈克·帕特尼蒂。
Mike Paterniti.
他最初为《GQ》杂志撰文讲述了与陈先生的会面。
He first wrote about meeting mister Chen for GQ magazine.
有一部关于陈先生和南京大桥的纪录片，名叫《南京之天使》。
There's a documentary out there about mister Chen and the bridge called The Angel of Nanjing.
如果你或你认识的人需要帮助，可以拨打或发送短信至988，联系九月热线。
If you or somebody you know might need help, the September is available 20 by calling or texting 988.
3，后院里的同意。
3, Yes in My Backyard.
现在，这个故事讲述了一些发生在城市边缘、阴影之下、就在我们眼皮底下的神秘事件。
Now this story about some of the mysterious things happening on the edges of the city, in the shadow of the city, right under our noses.
为了更好地理解这个故事，我们现在转向豪尔赫·哈斯特。
And to put this story in some context, we're gonna turn now to Jorge Just.
你可能还记得豪尔赫。
You may remember Jorge.
他曾经为我们节目制作过一些报道。
He's done some stories for our program.
他说，当你搬到一座新城市时，你无法融入别人日常的对话中。
He says that when you move to a new city, you cannot get into the regular conversations that everybody else gets into.
他不久前发现了这一点，当时他做了芝加哥人一致认为最糟糕的一件事。
He found this out a little while back when he did the one thing that everyone in Chicago agrees is the very worst thing that anybody can do.
他搬到了纽约。
He moved to New York.
所有纽约人都只想谈论该坐哪趟地铁从A点到B点。
All New Yorkers wanna talk about is what subway train to get to take to get from point a to point b.
而且他们没完没了地说个不停。
And it goes on and on.
你根本插不上话。
And you can't say anything.
你没法说，比如，他们发现了一颗第十颗行星，他们却只会说，哇。
You can't be like, you know, they discovered a tenth planet, and they'll be like, woah.
那你应该坐DMZ号线。
Well, you would take the DMZ.
你知道的？
You know?
去那个死寂的星球。
To get to the dead planet.
这是无法逃避的。
It's inescapable.
当这场对话终于平息时，它不知怎的，而且从不失败地，转成了关于手机信号的讨论。
And when you that conversation finally peters out, it somehow, and it it doesn't fail, turns into a conversation about cell phone reception.
你根本插不上话。
You you can't get into the you can't get into the conversation.
你不知道哪里是信号盲区。
You don't know where the dead spots are.
所以你根本没法进行任何闲聊。
So so you can't come do any small talk.
于是，闲聊就变成了：哦，你刚搬到纽约？
So what happens is the small talk becomes, oh, you just moved to New York.
你来自哪里？
Where are you from?
哦，你来自芝加哥。
Oh, you're from Chicago.
你觉得纽约怎么样？
How do you like New York?
你觉得纽约怎么样？
How do you like New York?
每个人都想知道你对纽约的感觉，因为他们希望你回答：纽约是我去过的最棒的地方。
Everybody wants to know how you like New York because they want you to say, New York's the greatest place that I've ever been to.
我已经切断了与以前所有去过的地方的联系，因为我太喜欢这里了。
And I've I've burned all of my connections to anywhere that I've ever been before because I love it so much here.
事实上，当人们问你：你觉得纽约怎么样？
When in fact, people would say, so how do you like New York?
你会说：嗯，说实话，我还挺喜欢的。
And you're like, well, you know, I like it.
这里很大。
It's big.
这很艰难。
It's tough.
但我真的很喜欢芝加哥。
But I I really like Chicago.
你知道的？
You know?
真的吗？
Oh, really?
芝加哥怎么样？
What's Chicago like?
芝加哥是个美妙的梦幻之地，每个街角都有酒吧，而且你知道，桥上飘着巧克力的香味。
Chicago's this wonderful dreamland where there's a bar on every corner and, you know, the bridges smell like chocolate.
然后你会陷入一片沉默，杯中的冰块会叮当作响几次。
And then you'd pretty much have a a silence and your the ice in your glass would clink a couple of times.
然后他们会说，桥上飘着巧克力的香味。
And then they'd say the bridges smell like chocolate.
然后我会描述那些桥闻起来像巧克力是多么美妙。
And then I'd describe how wonderful it is that the bridges would smell smelled like chocolate.
而纽约人从来、从来、从来、从来、从来、从来都不相信这一点。
And this is something that people in New York have never ever ever ever ever ever believed.
但如果你一大早起来，外面一片宁静，走到正确的那座桥上，正好赶上那种魔幻的晨光时刻，太阳刚刚升起，你身处一座大城市，却空无一人。
But if you get up early in the morning and it's sort of quiet out and you go to the right bridge and it's just that sort of magic twinkling hour where the sun's coming up, and and there's you're in a big city, but nobody's around.
偶尔，它们会闻起来像布朗尼蛋糕。
Every now and again, they smell like brownies.
是的。
Yeah.
事实上，这是真的。
Well, that's actually true.
这非常、非常真实。
That's very, very true.
我可以肯定地说，这是真的。
I can say it's it's true.
原因是因为西区有一家巧克力工厂，不断散发出巧克力的香味。
And the reason why is because there's there's a chocolate plant on the West Side that spews that spews the smell of chocolate.
是的。
Yeah.
魔法的气味。
The smell of magic.
说桥闻起来像巧克力，并不能传达出实际发生的情况。
To say some to say, like, the bridge smells like chocolate doesn't convey, like, what actually happens.
实际情况是，当你走在桥上，躲避着车辆，而这座桥横跨一条早已死亡的河流，穿过一个工业区，周围完全不自然。
What actually happens is that when you're walking across a bridge and you're dodging cars and it's a bridge over a dead river in the middle of a part of town that is industrial and totally unnatural.
你突然间就走进了一片云雾，那是你童年时最甜蜜的回忆——饼干刚出炉的味道。
You're you you just, like, sort of walk into this cloud of, like, the sweetest memory you have of cookies being made as a child, your sweetest childhood memory.
你可以在白天，置身于城市中心时，意外地走进这片气味之中。
You can walk into that, and you can walk into it by surprise in the middle of the day, in the middle of a city.
现在你知道了，这一切都要结束了。
Now now you know that, that that all this is ending.
对吧？
Right?
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
I know.
就像一千次刺入心脏。
It's like a thousand little stabs in the heart.
这都要归功于联邦政府。
Thanks to the federal government.
就像一百万次刺入心脏。
It's like a million little stabs in the heart.
事情是这样的。
What happened is this.
有人投诉了巧克力的气味。
Somebody complained about the chocolate smell.
他们向环境保护署提出了投诉。
They complained to the Environmental Protection Agency.
而联邦政府，平时对全国任何公民的哪怕一个投诉都漠不关心，这次却立刻采取了行动。
And the federal government, never responsive to even a single complaint from any of its citizens anywhere in the country, leapt into action.
他们派出了检查人员前往布洛默巧克力公司，这家公司自1939年以来一直在芝加哥西区生产巧克力棒和其他甜点。
They sent inspectors to the Blommer Chocolate Company, which has been making chocolate bars and other goodies on Chicago's West Side since 1939.
检查人员发现，空气中 cocoa 粉尘的含量过高，超过了联邦标准的法定限值。
Inspectors found that too much cocoa dust was going into the air, more than is legal under federal standards.
工厂安装了过滤设备。
The plant installed filtering equipment.
事实上，他们表示，即使在环保署到来之前，他们就已经计划安装这些设备了。
In fact, they say they've been planning to get that equipment in place even before the EPA dropped by.
无论如何，空气中 cocoa 微粒减少，意味着巧克力的香气也变淡了。
In any case, fewer cocoa particles in the air means less delicious chocolatey aroma.
你知道吗，想想还挺奇怪的，一家小小的巧克力工厂，有人投诉了，他们就真的派人去调查了，是的。
You know, it's kind of curious to think of, like, you know, one small chocolate factory has you know, somebody complained, and they went out there and looked, they yes.
有问题，我们会解决它。
There's a problem, and we're gonna fix it.
但你知道，发电厂发生过成千上万次类似情况，却什么都没发生。
But yet, you know, you have thousands of times where it's happened at the power plants, and nothing's happened.
这是布莱恩·乌尔巴切夫斯基，他在我们首次播出本期节目时，担任芝加哥美国肺脏协会的环境健康项目主任。
That's Brian Urbachevsky, director of environmental health programs for what was called, back when we first broadcast today's show, the American Lung Association in Chicago.
现在它被称为呼吸健康协会。
It's now called the Respiratory Health Association.
他指出，事实上，当时广泛报道过，在我们首次播出本期节目时，伊利诺伊州总检察长办公室已记录了伊利诺伊州六家燃煤电厂在六年期间发生了超过7600起类似巧克力工厂的违规行为。
He points out in fact, it was widely reported in Chicago that the Illinois attorney general's office had documented over 7,600 violations, similar to the chocolate company violation, at six coal plants in Illinois in six years, back when we first broadcast today's show.
但他们从未对任何一家燃煤电厂采取行动。
They never went after any of those coal plants.
好的。
Okay.
让我们退一步说，巧克力工厂并不是细颗粒物污染的主要来源。
Let let's step back a minute because chocolate factories are not a major source of this fine particle pollution.
当你看发电厂时，它们约占这个问题的四分之一。
When you look at power plants, they're responsible for about a quarter of the problem.
那巧克力呢？
And chocolate?
巧克力也是这个问题的四分之一吗？
Is chocolate a quarter of the problem as well?
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
它可能远远低于1%。
It's probably, you know, far, far, far less than 1%.
哦。
Oh.
现在你曾经说过一句用动物作比喻的话，我在无数文章中都看到过引用，我想请你在这里为我们的听众再重复一遍。
Now there's a quote that you gave where you used an animal metaphor that I've seen quoted widely in a million articles that I just would like to you to repeat here for our listeners.
哦，我不确定我能不能记得起来。
Oh, I don't know if I can.
实际上，如果这是关于狼的话，嗯。
I actually if this is the wolves Mhmm.
还有关于蚂蚁的那个说法，
And the ant thing,
我其实
I actually
因为那个说法，我被旧金山的动物权益活动人士找上门了，他们说狼对人类并不危险。
got San Francisco animal activists after me for that thing, saying that wolves are not dangerous to humans.
话虽如此。
That that being said.
你啊，如果你觉得说不出口，那我来说吧。
You well, I'll I'll I'll say it if you if you don't feel like you can.
你刚才说，等一下。
You you said that hold on for a second.
我这儿有记录。
I have it here.
你提到过，环保署在处理这家巧克力工厂时，却对燃煤电厂置之不理。
You you said that the EPA what the EPA was doing with this chocolate factory and ignoring the coal plants.
你说过，这就像在一群狼周围时去踩死一只蚂蚁，然后还声称自己救了人。
You said, quote, it's like crushing an ant when there's a pack of wolves around then claiming you have saved people from harm.
要不我们这么说吧，好吧。
How about if we say, alright.
你知道，这就像踩死一只蚂蚁。
You know, it's it's like crushing an ant.
是的。
Yeah.
别害怕那些动物权利人士。
Don't be scared of those animal rights, people.
不。
No.
不。
No.
我只是在试着思考。
I was just trying to think.
我打算用鲨鱼来代替。
I'm gonna use sharks instead.
没人喜欢鲨鱼。
Nobody likes sharks.
我只是觉得，我现在对政府的态度，完全可以用这个故事来概括。
I just like this is just like my entire relationship to government right now can be summed up by this story.
明白吗？
Okay?
有这么多东西在向空气中排放颗粒物，而我唯一喜欢的正是那个他们正要淘汰的。
There's all these things that are throwing particles in the air, and the only one I like is the one they're getting rid of.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，你知道，这也是我的挫败之处。
And, you know, that's my frustration as well.
当我联系伊利诺伊州环保局时，联邦环保署并没有就这家巧克力工厂与媒体沟通；负责空气局合规与执法的愉快公务员朱莉·阿米特奇告诉我，这是一场误会。
The federal EPA wasn't talking to the press about the chocolate factory when I called the Illinois State EPA, the manager of compliance and enforcement for the Bureau of Air, a cheerful public servant named Julie Armitage, informed me that there had been a misunderstanding.
是的，她说，燃煤电厂确实排放了过多的颗粒物，多达7600次，但每次持续时间都非常非常短，最短是瞬间的峰值，最长也不超过六分钟。
Yes, she said, the coal plants had belched out too many particles 7,600 times, but each of these times was very, very short, At the least, a momentary spike, at the most, six minutes long.
她说，每次都是短暂的波动。
Each one was a blip, she said.
自动监测设备全天候24小时不间断地采集数据。
Automatic monitoring equipment is going twenty four hours a day taking readings.
把一年中所有的波动加起来，每家工厂每年大约有211次波动，这意味着超过99%的时间，这些工厂都是符合法律规定的。
Add up all the blips per year, and you get 211 blips per plant per year, meaning that well over 99% of the time, the plants are in compliance with the law.
是的。
Yes.
脱离上下文来看，这似乎是一个非常糟糕的情况。
Taken out of context, it it appears to be a very bad situation.
放在上下文中看，这几乎根本不是问题。
Put into context, it's it's virtually a nonissue.
至于现在芝加哥的巧克力香味可能变少了，这又怎么说呢？
And as for the fact that now there may be less chocolate smell in Chicago?
你知道，我其实并不具备这个立场。
You know, I I I'm not really in a position.
我难道不希望当初那场风波根本没有发生吗？
Would I prefer to not have had the hullabaloo that broke loose?
是的。
Yes.
作为一位以让我们的世界变得更美好为己任的环保监管者，你难道不会感到一丝愧疚吗？
And you don't feel any sort of twinge as an environmental regulator who's here to make our world a better place as you are, that that could be the upshot of the whole thing?
巧克力香气消失了？
That the that the chocolate aroma disappears?
是的。
Yeah.
如果真的发生这种情况，你一点都不会感到不安吗？
You don't feel any sort of twinge if that were to happen?
嗯，你知道的，我在这里的工作是确保遵守环境法律法规。
Well, you know, unfortunately, job here is to ensure compliance with environmental laws and regulations.
而且而且
And and
不管这句话要往哪里走，这完全不是我要的答案。
Wherever this sentence is going, this is exactly not the answer.
我们，伊利诺伊州的民众，想听的是。
We, the people of Illinois, wanna hear.
他们不想听什么法律法规。
They don't wanna hear about laws and regulations.
但你知道，这些规定存在是有原因的，而且在大多数情况下，你知道的。
Well, but, you know, they're they're there for a reason, and and for the most part, you know
她说，每个人都遵守了规定。
Everybody was following the rules, she says.
联邦机构也像应该做的那样进行了检查。
The Feds inspected just like they're supposed to.
实际上，布洛默公司排放了过多的巧克力气味。
Blommer's was, in fact, emitting too much chocolate.
故事到此结束。
End of story.
在我和她谈话后的几个月里，环保署表示布洛默公司已经解决了问题，停止了向空气中排放违反法律的颗粒物。
And then in the months after I had the conversation with her, the EPA says Blommer fixed the problem, stopped spewing particles into the air that violated the law.
好消息是，令人难以置信的是，他们现在排放的气味依然闻起来像美味的巧克力。
And good news, incredibly, what they're emitting still smelled like delicious chocolate.
最终，在我们首次播出这个故事的多年后，2024年，布洛默公司关闭了芝加哥的一家工厂。
And then, finally, years after we first broadcast this story, in 2024, bombers shut down a Chicago factory.
他们仍在宾夕法尼亚州、加利福尼亚州和加拿大生产，但芝加哥工厂被称已变得过于昂贵而无法继续运营。
They are still manufacturing in Pennsylvania, California, and Canada, but the Chicago plant, they said, just became too expensive to keep running.
老旧的机器不断需要维修。
Old machines kept needing repair.
最终，让芝加哥的巧克力香气消失的，并非联邦法规。
In the end, what killed the chocolate smell in Chicago was not federal regulations.
也不是政府的干预。
It was not government meddling.
而是老掉牙的岁月老化，这一点我也不太清楚。
It was good old fashioned old age, which I don't know.
也许偶尔不把责任归咎于政府，也挺好的。
Maybe it's nice not to blame the government for something once in a while.
这种事情什么时候发生过呢？
When does that ever happen?
奶油蛋。
Cream eggs.
在去火车站的路上，风中飘舞的落叶里，藏着奶油蛋的趣味。
On the way to the train station, in the wind and leaves comes the fun of a cream egg.
没人知道我有这个。
No one knows that I have it.
它太小了。
It's so small.
厚厚的巧克力裹着拉丝的糖，柔软又粘稠。
Lots of thick chocolate with stringy sugar, soft and sticky.
我觉得我鼻子上沾了一点。
I think I've got some on my nose.
本期节目由黛安·库克、罗宾·塞米恩和我本人制作，合作人员包括亚历克斯·布卢姆伯格、简·玛丽、莎拉·科尼格、艾米·奥利里和丽莎·波拉克。
Today's episode of our show was produced by Diane Cook, Robin Semien, and myself with Alex Bloomberg, Jane Marie, Sarah Koenig, Amy O'Leary, and Lisa Pollack.
本集的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Senior producer for this episode was Julie Snyder.
制作协助来自萨姆·哈尔格林、西娅·钱德勒、塞思·林恩、汤米·安德烈亚斯和BA·帕克。
Production help from Sam Hallgrin, Thea Challenger, Seth Lynn, Tommy Andreas, and BA Parker.
音乐由杰西卡·霍珀提供。
Music up from Jessica Hopper.
本期重播的制作由马特·蒂尔尼和乔莉·韦纳负责。
Production up on today's rerun from Matt Tierney and Chloe Weiner.
此外，还有迈克尔·科梅特、莫莉·马塞洛和斯通·尼尔森。
Also, Michael Comete, Molly Marcello, and Stone Nelson.
特别感谢今天来自美国预防自杀基金会的布雷特·温。
Special thanks today to Brett Ween of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.
我们的网站是 thisamericanlife.org。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
《美国生活》由PRX（公共广播交换平台）提供给公共广播电台。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
一如既往，感谢我们节目的联合创始人托里·马拉蒂亚，他让我转告你们，他能打赢曼哈顿、布鲁克林、皇后区和布朗克斯的任何人。
Thanks as always to our program's cofounder, Tory Malatia, who asked me to tell you he can kick the ass of anybody in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx.
而纽约人从来都不相信这件事。
And this is something that people in New York have never ever ever ever ever ever believed.
我是伊拉·格拉斯。
I'm Ira Glass.
下周再见，更多《美国生活》的故事。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下次，我会买下一颗星系，一段甜蜜太空中的平稳旅程，在舌尖滑动，充满巧克力的欢乐与星际般的、难以言喻的极致愉悦。
Next time, I'll buy a galaxy, A smooth ride through sweet space, slidey on the tongue, very much a joyous intergalactic journey through merriment of chocolate and pure, undescribable euphoric satisfaction.
下周在《美国生活》播客中。
Next week on the podcast of This American Life.
喂？
Hello?
嘿，妈妈。
Hey, mom.
是的。
Yeah.
我是伊拉。
It's Ira.
是的。
Yeah.
在我们广播节目早期，我采访了父母一系列问题，这真的彻底改变了我和他们的关系。
Back in the early days of our radio show, I did a series of interviews with my parents that no kidding, completely changed my relationship with them.
你做过这个吗？
Have you done this?
你有没有和爸爸一起去餐厅，假装你们不认识？
Have you gone to a restaurant with dad and pretended that you didn't know each other?
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
但如果你这么做了，你的意思是
But if you did, you're saying that
我们曾经和你一起去过餐厅，假装不认识你。
We've gone to restaurants with you and pretended we didn't know you.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我父母下周将在播客中亮相，就在你们当地的公共广播电台。
My parents, next week on the podcast, on your local public radio station.
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