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先提醒一下，本期节目中有未消音的脏话。
A quick warning, there are curse words that are unbeeped in today's episode of the show.
如果你偏好经过消音的版本，可以在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上找到。
If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, this americanlife.org.
当皮特18岁的时候，那是他上大学前的夏天。
Back when Pete was 18 years old, it was the summer before he went away to college.
他正和父亲坐在家里的客厅里。
He's home in the living room with his dad.
他转向我，说：彼得，我们去兜个风吧。
And he turns to me and he says, Peter, let's go for a drive.
而他从没说过这样的话。
And that was not something that he ever said.
我们从没做过这种事。
That's not something that we did.
所以皮特知道事情不对劲。
So Pete knows something's up.
他完全不知道怎么回事。
He has no idea what.
他们走出去，上了那辆球车。
They go outside, get in the ball hoe.
彼得问他的父亲。
Pete asks his dad.
我们是不是该带上威尔，我弟弟，因为他在家。
Shouldn't we get Will, my younger brother, because he was at home.
他当时大概十三四岁。
He was probably 13 or 14.
我爸爸只是摇了摇头。
And my dad just shook his head.
不用。
No.
这次彼得和父亲单独驾车，最终成了他人生中的一个重要时刻。
This drive for Pete, alone with his dad, turned out to be kind of a big moment in his life.
在开车之前，如果让他描述自己的家庭，这并不难。
Before the drive, if he had to describe his family, it wasn't hard.
他用两个词就能说清楚。
He could do it in two words.
完全平凡无奇。
Completely mundane.
我的意思是，我们住在华盛顿特区郊外。
I mean, we we lived outside of DC.
我父母都在政府工作。
My parents worked for the government.
我的意思是，他们是好父母。
I mean, were good parents.
他们善良且关心孩子，我们每天晚上都会一起吃晚饭。
They were kind and attentive, and we would have dinner every night.
我爸爸会做晚饭。
My dad would cook dinner.
厨艺很好吗？
Good cook?
哦，厨艺超棒。
Oh, incredible cook.
根据皮特的记忆，他会做三文鱼圣代，炖出美味的烤牛肉，每周五还会做披萨。
The way Pete remembers it, he did salmon sundaes, made a great pot roast, had a pizza they'd make on Fridays.
他妈妈负责确保他们完成作业并打扫房间。
His mom was the one who'd make sure they did their homework and clean their rooms.
她性格直接，比他们爸爸健谈。
She was direct and more talkative than their dad.
家里非常安静。
It was really quiet.
他们并不外向。
They were not gregarious.
他们几乎没有朋友。
They didn't really have friends.
他们也没什么爱好。
They didn't really have hobbies.
好的。
Okay.
现在他和爸爸一起坐在车里。
And so now he is in the car with his dad.
就他们两个人。
Just the two of them.
爸爸从车道上开出去。
Dad pulls out of the driveway.
所以我们开始开车穿过我们的社区，到了社区尽头的红绿灯处。
So we start driving through our neighborhood, and we get to the stoplight at the end of our neighborhood.
他对我说：彼得，该告诉你关于家族生意的事了。
And he says to me, Peter, it's time to tell you about the family business.
间谍活动。
Espionage.
我的第一反应是，什么？你在干什么？
I mean, my first reaction was, like, what what what are you doing right now?
这开什么玩笑？
What kind of joke is this?
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后他接下来说的是，打开手套箱。
And then the next thing that he said is, open the glove box.
于是我打开了手套箱，里面有一张纸。
And so I opened the glove box, and inside was a sheet of paper.
他说，把那张纸拿出来。
And he said, take out that sheet of paper.
于是我拿了出来，扫了一眼，发现那是他从中央情报局的简历。
And so I took it out, and I'm scanning the page, and it's his resume from the CIA.
你知道他为中央情报局工作过吗？
Did you know he worked for the CIA?
没有。
No.
你以为他去哪儿工作了？
Where'd you think he worked?
他说他在国务院工作。
Well, he said he worked at the State Department.
但现在，这张纸上列出了皮特和父母一起生活过的所有不同国家：德国、荷兰和牙买加——这些地方一直是皮特以为他父亲每天去上班的使馆或领事馆所在地。
But now, on the sheet of paper, listed all the different countries that Pete had lived with his parents, Germany and The Netherlands and Jamaica, countries where Pete had always thought that his dad was going off to an embassy or consulate every day to work for the state department.
我看到上面写着：反间谍、反叛乱、副主管、驻地主管、特工官。
And I'm seeing, like, counterintelligence and counterinsurgency and deputy chief, chief of station, case officer.
我不知道接下来该问什么。
I didn't know what to ask next.
我 honestly 不记得我们当时聊了很多。
And I and I honestly don't know that we talked very much at all.
所以我们实际上绕了一大圈，又开回了车道。
So we actually drove in a big loop and drove back down into the driveway.
我当时想：等等。
And I was like, oh, wait.
妈妈知道这件事吗？
Does, like, does mom know about this?
我爸爸说：哦，她也在那里工作。
And my dad goes, oh, she works there too.
这让他震惊了。
This stunned him.
他爸爸，他还能理解。
His dad, he could kinda see.
他爸爸很安静，就像那种保守秘密的人。
His dad was quiet, like somebody who keeps secrets.
但对我妈妈来说，这完全出乎意料，因为她的样子根本不像会这样的人。
But with my mom, it was a it was completely out of it was just a complete surprise because of how how she was.
你什么意思？
What do you mean?
她就是那种看起来你得到什么就是什么的人。
She just was somebody who it just seemed like you were getting exactly what you got.
嗯。
Mhmm.
她根本不像会骗人的人。
She just didn't really seem like somebody who could deceive.
但我猜她确实骗了。
But I guess she was.
他们是那种分析数据、坐在办公桌前工作的CIA员工吗？
And were they the kind of CIA employees who analyze data and sit at a desk, work at desk?
还是说他们是外出执行任务、伪装成他人、甚至携带枪支的特工？
Or were they out in the field spying, pretending to be people who they aren't, like carrying a gun?
他们是那种类型的CIA吗？
Were they that kind of CIA?
他们在外勤工作。
They were out in the field.
是的。
Yeah.
他们是在卧底。
They were undercover.
他们持有其他名字的护照。
They had passports with other names.
有人告诉我，他们并不是间谍。
And the way it was described to me is that they were not spies.
他们是在从其他国家招募间谍。
They were recruiting spies from other countries.
嗯。
Mhmm.
在这个过程中，他们假装成不是自己的人。
And in doing so, they were, you know, pretending to be people who they were not.
皮特说，在这之前，他根本没有怎么想过父母的生活和工作。
Pete says before this, just hadn't really thought much about his parents and their lives and their jobs.
他还是个孩子。
He was a kid.
他曾问过妈妈：你每天在政府工作到底做些什么？
He once asked his mom, like, what do you actually do at your government job all day long?
我觉得我妈妈说，哦，就是开会和写备忘录之类的。
And I think my mom said something like, oh, you know, it's just meetings and memos.
我当时就想，嗯，我猜也是。
And I was like, yeah, I figured.
就是些无聊的事。
Just boring stuff.
是啊。
Yeah.
我得说，我打赌确实有开会和写备忘录。
Which I have to say, I bet there were meetings and memos.
所以，那也不是完全撒谎。
So it's like, that isn't a 100% lie.
只是省略了一些内容。
It's just leaving some stuff out.
嗯。
Yeah.
不。
No.
绝对是用无聊来作为一种欺骗手段。
Definitely using boringness as a kind of deception.
事后回想，皮特说，其实当时有一些线索，他本可以注意到的。
In retrospect, Pete says, there were clues that he could have maybe picked up on.
他妈妈会说好几种语言。
His mom spoke several languages.
这家人在他大部分人生中都住在其他国家。
The family lived most of his life in other countries.
他爸爸拥有一把九毫米手枪，总是凌晨四点起床去跑道跑步。
His dad owned a nine millimeter pistol and was always up at four in the morning to go running on a track.
他父母没有朋友，也从不邀请任何人来家里，这一点当然并不意味着你是个间谍。
It was the fact that his parents didn't have friends and never had anybody over to the house, which, of course, doesn't mean that you're a spy.
但还是有点奇怪。
But still.
是啊。
Yeah.
其实直到很久以后，我才意识到，很多成年人是有朋友的，而且还会经常聚会。
It actually wasn't until a lot later that I realized that a lot of adults do have friends and still hang out.
还有些事情，比如我跟妈妈去商场时，她总是确保我们记住一个暗号。
And there were things like when I would go to the mall with my mom, she always made sure we knew a code word.
她会说，比如，如果妈妈不在了，有人来接你，一定要确认对方知道暗号。
And she would say, like, okay, so if if mommy's ever not here and somebody comes to pick you up, make sure they know the code word.
而这个暗号一直都是《忍者神龟》。
And the code word was always Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
等等。
Wait.
每次去商场，你妈妈都会提醒你这个吗？
Anytime you would go to the mall, your mom would remind you of this?
是的。
Yeah.
我们坐在后座，她就会说：‘好了，孩子们，密码是什么？’
We'd be in the back seat, and she'd be like, Okay, boys, what's the code word?
我们会回答：‘忍者神龟。’
And we'd say, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
当时，他说他以为这只是90年代的‘陌生人危险’教育，但后来他发现其他父母并不会这样做。
At the time, he says he chalked it up to 1990s Stranger Danger stuff, but later he learned that other parents do not do this.
皮特告诉我，关于他父母的工作，还有一个线索，这个线索在他们搬回弗吉尼亚的那些年里一直就在那里。
And Pete told me there was one more clue about his parents' jobs, a clue that was sitting right there during the years they moved back to Virginia.
也许最大的线索是我们家就住在中情局总部正对面。
Maybe the biggest clue of all is that we lived right across the street from the CIA headquarters.
等等。
Wait.
什么？
What?
嗯。
Yeah.
这很有道理，因为我爸爸非常务实，而且特别讨厌堵车。
That makes a lot of sense, because my dad was super pragmatic, and he hated traffic.
要明确的是，他们并不是 literally 就在马路对面，而是在马路对面的一个社区里。
To be clear, they weren't literally across the street, but in a neighborhood right across the street.
门对门，不到五分钟。
Door to door, less than five minutes.
皮特的父母现在已经去世了。
Pete's parents are both dead now.
他们都在CIA工作了很长时间后退休了，这也是为什么我在这里广播中谈论这件事是可以的。
They both retired from the CIA after long careers, which is why it's Okay to talk about it here on the radio, by the way.
但当皮特了解到这些时，真的让他觉得父母的人生显得无比令人钦佩。
But when Pete learned about this, it really did make their lives seem so much more impressive.
他们在中情局相识，在中情局相爱。
They met in the CIA, fell in love in the CIA.
他们四处旅行，带着孩子到处走，干着天知道些什么的事。
They were globetrotting and bringing their kids around and doing God knows what.
我不太确定该怎么问这个问题，所以我直接问了。
I'm not exactly sure, like, how to ask this question just so I'm just gonna ask this straight out.
我知道电影里的间谍都特别特别帅。
Like, one thing that I know about spies from movies is that they're all really, really hot.
你的父母真的很帅吗？
Were your parents really hot?
我的意思是，是的，他们确实很帅。
I mean, yeah, they were they were hot.
是的。
Yeah.
他们很帅。
They were hot.
他们是非常有魅力的人。
They were they were very attractive people.
我妈妈就像……我有她的一些老照片，她真的非常漂亮。
My mom was like like, I have these old pictures of her and she's just beautiful.
那你爸爸呢？
And your dad?
是的。
Yeah.
是个英俊的家伙。
Handsome guy.
有一个概念最初出现在电子游戏中，后来蔓延到电视剧和社交媒体，就是说。
There's this concept that originally was in video games, and then it spread to TV shows and to social media, where okay.
你看，在电子游戏中，有一个所有故事发生的宇宙。
See, in a video game, there's the universe that everything takes place in.
对吧？
Right?
然后，在某个时刻，游戏开发者会发布新的背景设定，提供一些过往故事或揭示重要细节，这些内容突然让一切显得不同、更丰富、更复杂，焕然一新。
And then at some point, the game creators do a new lore drop where they give backstory or reveal important details that suddenly make everything seem different and richer and more complicated, shed a whole new light.
皮特就经历了这样的事。
Pete had that.
他在现实生活中也经历了一次新的背景揭露。
He had a new lore drop in his actual life.
他原本以为父母是某种样子，后来却得知了真相，彻底颠覆了他对他们的认知。
He thought his parents were one thing, then went backstory that changed his whole picture of them.
那么，在现实生活中经历这样的事是什么感觉？
So what's it like to live through in real life?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，起初这简直是个震惊。
I mean, I think at first, it was a shock.
他们竟然能在我整个生命中欺骗我。
The fact that they were able to deceive me for my whole life.
这真的很奇怪。
And that is just weird.
这确实让我以不同的眼光看待他们，天啊，脚下的地毯突然被抽走了。
It did make me look at them differently, like, wow, the rug just got pulled from under me.
我所知道的一切都是谎言。
Everything I know is a lie.
但当这种感觉消退后，你会发现，他们还是妈妈和爸爸。
But then when that wears off, it's kind of like, well, it's still just mom and dad.
每个人在成长过程中都会经历一件事，那就是不再把父母仅仅看作童年家中无聊的背景家具。
Pizza is everybody goes through the thing when they grow up, where they're going to see their parents not just as the boring human furniture around the house of their childhood.
对我们大多数人来说，关于父母的新信息是多年间逐渐吸收的。
And for most of us, the new information that we absorb about our parents happens over years.
皮特所经历的版本，就像是一个加速版。
The new wardrobe version that Pete got was just kind of the accelerated program.
是的。
Yeah.
我一次性全拿到了。
I got it all in one drive.
或者今天，在我们的节目中，我们邀请了其他真实的人类，他们不是电子游戏角色，也不是长期电视剧中那些突然得知自己人生全新信息、背景故事彻底颠覆、现实生活中突然爆出新设定的虚构人物。
Or today on our show, we have other human beings who are not video game characters, and they're not fictional people on long running television series who get hit with all new information about their own lives, backstories that rewrite everything, new lore drops in real life.
来自芝加哥WBEZ电台，这里是《美国生活》。
From WBEZ Chicago, This is American Life.
今天在节目中，我依然会扮演我一贯的角色，我并没有发现自己其实是热那亚的公主，而我的祖母其实是朱莉·安德鲁斯。
Today on the show, I will still be playing the part that I always play here, and I have not learned that I am a princess from Genovia, and my grandmother is actually Julie Andrews.
我是斯特莱拉·格拉斯。
I am Stelaira Glass.
请继续关注。
Stay with us.
在《生活工具箱》中，我们认真对待建议。
Here at Life Kit, we take advice seriously.
我们为您提供基于证据的建议。
We bring you evidence based recommendations.
为此，我们会与各个领域的研究人员和专家进行交流。
And to do that, we talk with researchers and experts on all sorts of topics.
因为我们也有和你一样的疑问。
Because we have the same questions you do.
比如我的洗发水里到底有什么？我该不该让孩子退出足球队？在经济不确定的时期，我该如何处理我的储蓄？
Like what's really in my shampoo, or should I let my kid quit soccer, or what should I do with my savings in uncertain economic times?
你可以在NPR应用程序或任何你收听播客的平台收听NPR的Life Kit。
You can listen to NPR's life kit in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
这是美国生活，第一幕。
This is American Life, act one.
把戏剧留给你奶奶吧。
Save the drama for your grandmama.
有时候，重磅消息会在你最意想不到的时候降临。
Sometimes, a war drop happens when you least expect it.
看看下面这个故事。
Look at this next story.
阿比乌德·德·科恩菲尔德解释道。
Abiud de Kornfeld explains.
当我第一次见到杰克时，很明显。
When I first met Jake, it was obvious.
这是一个天生就渴望与人建立联系的人。
This is a guy who is hardwired to try and connect with people.
他就像一台友好的推土机，像酷乐人一样强行进入情感亲密。
He's like this friendly bulldozer, Kool Aid manning his way into emotional intimacy.
杰克一直如此，部分原因是他成长过程中周围都是人。
And Jake's always been this way, in part perhaps because he grew up surrounded by people.
他来自罗德岛一个庞大的爱尔兰天主教家庭，有着一种情景喜剧式的成长经历。
He comes from this big Irish Catholic family in Rhode Island, and he had a sort of sitcom upbringing.
他的姨妈、叔叔和表亲们都住得很近。
His aunts and uncles and cousins all lived close by.
一位祖母就住在隔壁。
One grandma lived literally next door.
另一对祖父母住在离他家十五分钟步行路程的地方。
The other set of grandparents lived a fifteen minute walk from his house.
杰克每天都去看他们。
And Jake saw them every day.
那真是太好了。
It was the best.
然后当他七岁时，家人搬到了佛蒙特州，离开了他的大家庭。
And then when he was seven years old, his family moved to Vermont, away from his extended family.
他非常讨厌那里，非常想念他们。
And he hated it, really missed them.
当他在罗德岛的祖母被诊断出乳腺癌时，这种思念变得更加强烈。
And this missing only intensified when his grandma back in Rhode Island was diagnosed with breast cancer.
对小杰克来说，该怎么做再明显不过了。
To little Jake, it was obvious what to do.
我只是开始不停地给她打电话。
I just started calling her all the time.
我觉得我只是想一直和她说话，因为我特别害怕她会死。
And I think because I just wanted to keep talking to her because I was so afraid she was gonna die.
天哪。
Oh my god.
所以
So
真贴心。
sweet.
我知道。
I know.
现在回想起来觉得挺搞笑的，因为当时我的意图纯粹至极，但动机又如此明显，肯定每天都在提醒我奶奶：这个孩子觉得你会死，因为你确实可能。
It's funny to think back on because it is it was so purely intention, but it's also so the motives of it are so transparent that it must have just been, a reminder to my grandmother every day, like, this kid thinks you're gonna die because you might.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
就像，其实并不是这样。
Like, it was kinda like, no.
好的。
Okay.
放松。
Relax.
不。
No.
她当时说，我只是想有一天能彻底安静一下。
She was like, I was trying to, like, one day of fucking peace.
然后我说：嗨，奶奶。
And I'm like, hi, grandma.
在你去世前，我能再和你聊一聊吗？
Can I talk to you again before you die?
我有点记得，那些电话渐渐变得没那么频繁了，因为我每天都在打，那时候我才八九岁。
I kind of have this memory of the calls kind of running out of steam a little bit because I was calling every single day, and I was, like, eight or nine.
所以，你到底有什么好聊的呢？
And so it's like, what what do you have to talk about?
你知道的。
You know?
所以我想，我刚开始读《哈利·波特》的时候，就把它介绍给了她。
And so I think I had introduced her to Harry Potter just as I had started reading it.
我想我们后来就约定一起读，每天读一章，第二天我打电话给她，一起讨论这一章的内容，就像我和奶奶的读书会一样。
And I think we were then like, we would read them at the same time, and we would read a chapter and I talk on the phone the next day to re we would discuss the chapter, sort of like book club with my grandma.
我记得我妈妈总开玩笑说，她见过我最生气的一次，就是我发现奶奶提前读了后面的内容。
I remember my mom always jokes like the most one of the most upset times she ever saw me was I caught that my grandma had read ahead.
因为她有一次打电话时，不小心说出了还没发生的情节。
Because she accidentally said something on one of the calls that hadn't happened yet.
我当时就说：‘你在说什么啊？’
I And was like, what are you talking about?
她回答：‘反正故事还没完嘛。’
And she was like, well, it doesn't end.
我就说：‘你提前读了后面的内容。’
And I was like, you read ahead.
她把整本书都读完了，因为她根本放不下，太喜欢了。
And she had read the whole book because she couldn't put it down because she loved it.
对。
Right.
但我跟她说，再也不要这样了。
But I was like, never do that again.
你向我发誓，因为我和她一起经历的这段时光太珍贵了。
Like, swear to me that you'll because I I loved that I had that experience with her.
这个《哈利·波特》读书会逐渐演变成了彼此分享各自阅读的其他书籍。
This Harry Potter book club evolved into talking about other books, books they are reading separately.
他们的做法是，各自读自己的书，然后打电话给对方，一章一章地总结内容。
The way it worked, they would each read their own book, and then they'd hop on the phone and summarize it for the other person, chapter by chapter.
这成了我每晚的例行程序。
It was part of my, like, nightly ritual.
我觉得就是：放学回家，写作业，也许吃个晚饭，然后给奶奶打电话，复述一下书里的内容。
I feel like it was, like, come home, do homework, maybe have dinner, then call grandma, and recap the book.
因为我爱上了向她复述书中的故事。
Because I loved I always loved, like, recapping my book to her.
我喜欢有人听我讲这个故事，这样我就能重新讲述它，我特别享受这种感觉。
Like, I loved having someone to tell this story to so that it was, like I love being able to retell it.
我想用它让我感受到的方式告诉她这个故事。
Like, I wanna tell her this story in the way it made me feel.
我想确保保留这份悬念。
I wanna make sure I hide this suspense.
如果书里有惊喜，我希望在讲给她听的时候，能像我读的时候一样，把惊喜保留到最后，让她也感到意外。
I wanna, like if there was a surprise in the book, I want tell make sure I tell her the story of the book in a way that keeps the surprise so that she's a surprise when I tell her as I was when I read it.
然后我会问：那你读的书呢？
And then I'd be okay, what about your books?
她就会告诉我。
And she would tell me.
我记得很早就发现，她显然没有这种讲故事的天赋，她只是会说：哦，然后，嗯，他们开始坠入爱河了。
And I remember kind of clocking pretty early on that she definitely didn't have that same flair for, like she just didn't she would be like, oh, and then, like, yeah, they they're starting to fall
坠入爱河。
in love.
我想知道，呃，怎么才能
I'd like, well, how do
他们是怎么相爱的？
they fall in love?
他们为什么会喜欢对方？
Why do they like each other?
我通过书籍和讲故事与她建立了深厚的情感联系，因为我觉得，奶奶并不太愿意主动分享自己的事情。
I felt very connected to her through the books and through the storytelling because I think, you know, grandma was not, she wasn't, like, particularly forthcoming about herself.
她不是那种一回家就倒下来说‘天啊，我得跟你讲讲我今天的事’的人。
She wasn't someone who, like, would come home and, like, drop her back and be god, I gotta tell you about my day.
那不是她的风格。
Like, that was not her.
这是我第一次感觉到，自己在和一个成年人交谈，对方在和我分享他们自己生活中的事情，哪怕只是他们正在读的一本书。
And this was, like, the first time that I felt like I was having a conversation with an adult who was talking to me about stuff going on in their own life, even if it was just the book they were reading.
杰克的奶奶在菲琳娜的鞋类部门工作。
Jake's grandma worked at Phyllene's in the shoe department.
她是个真正的优惠券爱好者，热爱促销活动。
She was a real coupon hound, loved a sale.
她人很好，但并不完全是那种典型的慈祥祖母型。
She was nice, but not exactly sweet in a grandmotherly kind of way.
她常常过于直率。
She was often way too honest.
比如，如果你说因为衣服不合身而对自己感觉不好，她会直接说：‘你胖了。’
Like, if you said you weren't feeling good about yourself because your clothes didn't fit right, she would offer, well, you gained weight.
她喜欢读各种类型的书，但尤其钟爱惊悚小说。
She liked reading all kinds of books, but she especially loved thrillers.
杰克记得她的一本书，叫《烟与镜》，讲的是一位图书管理员的同父异母妹妹被谋杀的故事。
Jake remembers one of her books in particular, Smoke and Mirrors, about a librarian whose half sister was murdered.
这位图书管理员在一位认识她妹妹的男人的帮助下，试图找出杀害她妹妹的真凶。
The librarian tries to figure out who murdered her half sister with the help of a guy who knew her.
这很悬疑。
It was suspenseful.
他奶奶喜欢推理小说。
His grandma loved a mystery.
他们坚持这个读书俱乐部好多年。
The two kept this book club going for years.
杰克会在他佛蒙特州家里的餐厅和客厅之间的走廊里来回踱步，电话夹在耳朵和肩膀之间，而他的奶奶则坐在罗德岛家中最爱的扶手椅里。
Jake would pace back and forth in the hall between the dining room and living room in his house in Vermont, phone tucked under his ear, while his grandma sat nestled in her favorite armchair back in Rhode Island.
这些电话很长，有时持续数小时。
The calls were long, sometimes lasting hours.
杰克说，他的总结出乎意料地非常详尽。
Jake says his summaries were, unsurprisingly, pretty exhaustive.
他不想漏掉任何一个细节。
He didn't wanna leave a single detail out.
直到他大约12岁时，他开始不再完全如实告诉奶奶自己读了什么，因为他开始觉得他喜欢的那些书有些不对劲。
Until when he was 12 or so, he stopped being completely honest with his grandma about what he was reading because he started feeling like there was something off about the books he liked.
他担心这些书太女性化了。
He worried they were too girly.
就是那些让我感到真正陷入危机的书。
The ones where I was like, oh, like, these were the ones that really caused, like, a crisis for me.
有一套叫《Twitches》的书，讲的是双胞胎女巫的故事。
There was this series of books called Twitches, which was which were about twin witches.
书的封面像是那种老派的、早年二月风格的摄影拍摄，那种摆拍的素材照片。
And they were like the covers were like those old school, like, early February photo shoots where they would do, like, stock image photo shoots.
不是插画，
It wasn't like an illustration.
而是两张少女的写真拍摄。
It was like a photo shoot of, like, two teenage girls.
就像奥尔森姐妹那种风格。
Like, Olsen twin style.
完全没错。
Totally.
不是青少年的性爱。
Not teenage sex.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
它讲的是两个女孩，她们发现自己是被收养的，而且是双胞胎。
It was, like, about these two girls who found out that they were adopted and that they were twins.
她们也是女巫。
They're also witches.
当她们相遇时，就获得了魔法力量。
When they meet, they develop magical powers.
我当时就想，我非得读这些书不可。
And I was like, well, I literally have to read these.
但我不想告诉我奶奶，我正在读一本关于两个拥有魔法力量的女孩和男孩的书。
But, like, I don't wanna tell my grandma that I'm reading a book about, like, two teenage girls that are, like have magical powers and like boys.
而且，我也不想在学校里带着这本书到处走。
And, also, I don't wanna carry this book around at school.
所以我想，就是从那时起，我开始稍微修改了一下。
And so I think that's when I started editing a little bit.
而且，呃
And, like
那你为什么不想让奶奶知道你在读这些书呢？
And why didn't you want your grandma to know you're reading those books?
因为我觉得我知道这本书在表达一些东西，我想我当时也开始意识到，因为我本身就是一个很女性化的男孩。
Because I think I knew it was speaking to some I think I was also probably starting to realize, like because I also was I was a pretty effeminate child.
所以，到那时，我已经经常被人叫‘gay’了。
So, like, at this point, I was already getting called gay.
所以我觉得这一切都是相互交织在一起的。
So I think this was all kind of, like, interwoven.
所以你还记得，当时有意识地决定开始修改细节吗？
And so do you remember deciding, like, intentionally deciding to start changing details?
我记得在特威奇的故事里，我觉得我改了他们的性别。
I remember in Twitch's, I think I changed their gender.
我觉得
I think
我把他们都改成了男孩。
I made them both boys.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我觉得我改了他们的能力。
I think I changed their powers.
我觉得我说过，一个能用意念移动东西，另一个则很强壮。
I think I said that one could move things with their mind and that one was, like, strong.
你修改的这些细节，是为了让它更符合你认为一个直男会读的内容吗？
And the details you were changing, it was to make it align with what you thought a straight boy would be reading?
我当时想，我会改掉这些细节，因为它们不影响剧情。
I was like, I'll change these details because they don't affect the plot.
好吧。
Okay.
所以我想，我不会改变剧情。
And I so I was like, I'm not gonna change the plot.
我只是会改变围绕它的细节，让它显得更隐蔽一点。
I'm just gonna change, like, the details around it to make it, like, a little bit more masked.
比如，不是通过预知和心灵感应被动地阻止它，而是他们使用自己的物理能力，即心灵遥感和力量。
Like, it's gonna be instead of, like, being able to passively stop it through, like, clairvoyance and telepathy, it's like they use their, like, physical powers of telekinesis and strength.
你觉得你 convincing 吗？
And do you think you were convincing?
你觉得她当时认为你是直的吗？
Do you think that she thought that you were straight at the time?
不。
No.
我不觉得任何人曾认为我是直的。
I don't think that anyone ever thought I was straight.
真的吗？
Really?
不。
No.
我不这么认为。
I don't think so.
想象你为了奶奶而改变细节来伪装自己，这既温馨又令人心酸。
It's really sweet and really sad to imagine you, like, putting on this disguise by changing the details for your grandma.
这就像是你戴了一副假胡子，但其实是个歪斜的伪装，而你却毫不知情。
It's like you're wearing a fake mustache, but it's actually a skew and you have no idea.
每个人都说，那不是真的胡子。
And everyone's like, that's not a real mustache.
是啊。
Yeah.
百分之百。
A 100%.
就好像，如果我在这里跟你聊了一个半小时，然后突然戴上假胡子，还指望你相信那是真的。
And like as though like, if I'd been sitting here talking to you for an hour and a half and then just suddenly put the mustache on, expected you to think it was real.
你一直跟我聊天的时候，我都没戴胡子。
Like, you've been talking to without a mustache this whole time.
我也觉得这在一定程度上导致了读书会的结束。
And I also think this kind of led to the end of the book club a little bit.
当我开始觉得，我不想读这些书，还得跟我奶奶解释的时候。
It was, like, when I started to be like, I don't wanna read these books and have to tell my grandma.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
还有，战胜癌症。
Like like, also, beat the cancer.
恭喜。
Congratulations.
所以我刚才在问她的情况。
So I was asking about her.
哦，所以你是说，好吧。
Oh, so you're like, okay.
这不是紧急情况。
It's not an emergency.
有点吧。
Kind of.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
它
It
杰克又过了几年才正式向家人出柜。
took Jake a few more years to formally come out to his family.
他当时16岁。
He was 16.
他告诉我，他记得祖母曾经提过一次他出柜的事，并说她爱他。
And he told me he thinks he remembers his grandma mentioning his coming out once and saying that she loved him.
但这件事根本不是什么大事，以至于他几乎记不清具体细节了。
But it was such a non issue that he can't even really remember specifics.
杰克的性取向并不是这个故事中的关键信息。
Jake's sexuality, that is not the lore drop in this story.
有一个关键信息，但那是多年后，杰克三十多岁时才出现的。
There was one, but it came years later when Jake was in his thirties.
那时，他的祖母已经患上了痴呆症，随后病情加重。
By then, his grandma had developed dementia and then got really sick.
杰克特意每两三个月就去探望她一次。
Jake made a point to visit her every month or two.
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然后有一天
And then one day
我去探望奶奶，她当时在家接受临终关怀，感觉有点悲伤。
I was visiting my grandma, and she was in in home hospice, and it was, like, kinda sad.
她住在一楼的客厅里。
And she was on the 1st Floor in the the living room.
然后我上了我妈妈以前的卧室。
And then I went up to my mom's old bedroom.
我妈妈的卧室里有一个暖气片，上面总是堆满了奶奶的书。
And my mom's bedroom, there's this, like, radiator that always was just, like, covered in my grandma's books.
我记得我上楼可能是想喘口气什么的。
And I, like, remember being in I went I think I probably went up to the room to kinda, take a breather or something.
我记得看到窗台上和暖气片上的那些书。
And I remember, like, seeing the books on the windowsill and on the radiator.
他看到了一些小时候记得的书名，那是奶奶曾经讲给他听的书。
He saw titles he remembered from when he was a kid, the books she'd recapped for him.
我记得我拿起一本书翻了翻，发现了一个色情场景。
And I remember I picked up one of the books and thumbed through it and found a sex scene.
我当时想，她真的在读这些吗？
And I was like, was she reading?
这些都是言情小说。
What they're romance novels.
这些书里可都是性感内容。
Like, these were sexy books.
于是我拿起它们，开始一页页翻看。
And so I, like, picked them up, and I started, like, flipping through them.
我记得书里对生殖器的描写非常直白。
And I just remember it being, like, graphic in the way that it, like, described genitals.
不只是说‘然后我们去了卧室’那种含蓄的写法。
Like, it it was, like, it wasn't just, and then we went to the bedroom.
就是那种，你懂我的意思吧？
It was, like, like You know what I mean?
就是那种感觉，我当时想，哦，哦，明白了。
It was, like, that sort and I was, oh, oh, okay.
那些都是色情小说吗？
I was, are those all smut?
是的。
Yes.
杰克的奶奶是个狂热的色情小说读者。
Jake's grandma was an avid reader of smut.
杰克坐在那里，一边笑出声，一边开始搜索他奶奶最喜欢的作者。
Jake sat there laughing out loud to himself as he started googling his grandma's favorite authors.
简·安·克伦茨，她写了《激情之战》这本书，主角马克斯·福图纳前往一家旅馆寻找他隐藏的遗产，却发现自己无法抗拒地被迷人的女店主克利奥帕特拉吸引。
Jane Ann Krentz, who wrote the book Grand Passion, in which protagonist Max Fortune heads to a B and B in search of his hidden inheritance, only to find himself irresistibly compelled by the attractive innkeeper, Cleopatra.
J.D. 罗布，她写了《赤裸与死亡》，书中一位女性通过与一位英俊神秘的爱尔兰商人发生关系，逐渐走出过去的创伤。
JD Robb, she wrote the book Naked and Death, where a woman somehow works through her past trauma by sleeping with a hot and mysterious Irish businessman.
还有另一本简·安·克伦茨写的书，杰克记得奶奶曾向他复述过。
And another one from Jane Ann Crens that Jake remembered his grandma recapping to him.
《烟与镜》，讲的是一位图书管理员四处旅行，试图在途中遇到的一个男人的帮助下解决她同父异母妹妹的谋杀案。
Smoke and mirrors, the one about the librarian traveling around trying to solve her half sister's murder with the help of a guy she meets along the way.
无论如何，这正是杰克记忆中的情节。
That was the way Jake remembered it anyway.
但现在，当他读这本书时。
But now, reading the book.
整本书就是她一心想要和这个男人发生关系。
The whole book is just her wanting to have sex with this man.
这就是整本书的内容。
That's the entire book.
凶手几乎从未被提及。
The murderer is almost never mentioned.
他们只是在这个小镇上四处走动，试图查明谋杀案，而她一路上一直在想：这个男人真帅。
They're just walking around this town trying to find out if the murder the entire time, she's just like, this man is so hot.
她简直得凭空编造出这么多情节。
She literally had to make up so much plot.
这可是剧情的核心啊。
Like, this is so central to the plot.
我记得我当时想，天啊，奶奶根本不在乎这个故事本身。
Like, the I remember thinking, like, damn, grandma doesn't give that much of a shit about the narrative.
我说不，奶奶是在编故事，因为有一半的情节都是关于这些人发生性关系的。
And I'm like, no, grandma was making up a narrative because, like, half of the plot was about these people having sex.
你想读这段吗？
So you wanna read this passage?
想。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
在这部分书中，他们试图闯进一栋房子找线索，结果一个看不见的人把他们赶出了房子。
In this part of the book, they just tried to break into a house to, like, look for clues, and, like, an unseen person, like, chased them out of a house.
他们不得不逃跑，现在他们回到了他家，安全了。
And they, like, had to run away, And now they've, like they're back at his place, and they're, like, safe.
好的。
Okay.
托马斯脱下夹克，走到她身后站定。
Thomas shrugged out of his jacket and came to stand behind her.
他们在镜子里对视了。
Their eyes met in the mirror.
与她不同，他看起来状态极佳，她想。
Unlike her, he looked terrific, she thought.
坚毅、强悍，且完全掌控一切。
Hard, tough, and totally in control.
她不得不抵抗住一股无法抗拒的冲动，想要转身把头靠进他的胸膛。
She had to fight an irresistible urge to turn and put her head into his chest.
他的手搭上了她的肩膀。
His hands closed over her shoulders.
放松点。
Take it easy.
你只是在经历肾上腺素消退后的余波。
You're just feeling the aftershock of the adrenaline.
它会消失的。
It'll fade.
我知道。
I know.
他双手的重量并没有产生他可能期望的那种平静和安抚效果。
The weight of his hands was not having the calming, soothing effect he probably intended.
她突然想要做的，远不止把头靠在他的肩膀上。
She suddenly wanted to do a lot more than just put her head down on his shoulder.
她透过镜子看着他的嘴唇，心想，亲吻他会是什么感觉？
She looked at his mouth in the mirror and wondered, what would it be like to kiss him?
她想象着他的嘴唇触碰她身体其他部位会是什么感觉。
Wondered how his mouth would feel on other parts of her body.
我们到此为止吧，因为广播里无法呈现画面。
Let's stop there because we can't conjure an image on the radio.
你们俩当时在做同样的事。
You guys were doing the same thing.
我们当时在做同样的事。
We were doing the same thing.
当你意识到这一点时，你脑子里想了什么？
What went through your head when you realized that?
这真的让我觉得很好笑。
It really tickled me.
就像，我记得那种感觉，在我们互相打电话的最后阶段，我特别害怕，会暴露自己，或者当我开始意识到自己已经是个性成熟的人、进入青春期时，那些关于书的对话，就像别让我被看见。
Like, I was like because I remembered that feeling of being so afraid towards the end of the time when we were calling each other that I would, like, out myself or just feeling once I became, like, a sexual person myself, like, a a pubescent myself, those conversations about, like, those books being like, like, don't see me.
嗯。
Yeah.
我意识到她可能一整段时间都对此感到反感。
I'm realizing she probably felt aversion of that the whole time.
完全没错。
Totally.
或者只是不得不一直想着，好吧，别提他们在厨房里做爱的事，但剧情后来怎么样了？
Or was just having to constantly think about, like, okay, don't talk about when they had sex in the kitchen, but what happened to the plot line?
像，不知道。
Like, don't know.
我们俩一直在演这场戏，这让我觉得和她更亲近了。
It makes me feel closer to her that we were, like, doing this song and dance.
我超爱这个想法：你和你奶奶为了增进感情，每周三次互相撒谎。
I love the idea that you and your grandma were lying to one another three times a week in the name of bonding.
没错。
Exactly.
‘撒谎’这个词听起来似乎太严厉了。
It's like lie almost feels like too harsh of a word.
你
Do you
知道吗
know what
我的意思是？
I mean?
是的。
Yeah.
这就像是两个人在为对方翻译彼此生活中正在发生的事情。
It's just like two people translating what they're what's going on in their lives for the other person.
你知道的。
You know?
对。
Right.
这其实就是我们所有人一直在做的事情的一种版本。
It's a version of what we all do all the time.
百分之百。
A 100%.
比如，当我们跟父母聊自己的感情时，你可能不会说：‘我觉得我可能要和他们分手了，因为性生活不太行。’
You know, like, when we talk to, like, our parents about, like, our relationship, you might not be like, well, I think I might break up with them because the sex not great.
比如，你可能只是觉得没感觉了。
Like, you you you might, I'm just not feeling it.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
我们一直在做这种调整。
We do these edits all the time.
你知道的。
You know?
我们之前吵架了，然后和好了。
We were fighting, then we made up.
是的。
Yes.
没错。
Exactly.
杰克的奶奶今年六月去世了。
Jake's grandma died this past June.
她84岁。
She was 84.
杰克和他奶奶还有他们的读书会，显然，重点从来都不是书。
Jake and his grandma and their book club, it was never really about the books, obviously.
真正的目的是彼此相伴，感受亲近。
The point was to spend time with one another, to feel close.
这很有效。
And it worked.
效果非常好，以至于杰克到现在依然能和她共度时光，甚至在一些意想不到的时刻。
It worked so well that Jake still gets to spend time with her, even now, even in some very unexpected moments.
我一直在看《 heated rivalry》，这是HBO Max上一部改编自同性爱情小说的剧集。
I've been watching Heated Rivalry, which is like this HBO Max show that's based on a romance novel, but it's a gay romance novel.
主角是冰球运动员。
It's about hockey players.
我超爱这部剧。
And I'm, like, loving it.
这现在是我最喜爱的节目。
It's, like, my favorite show right now.
我看的时候还忍不住笑自己，因为我觉得我这一家人就是喜欢这种东西。
And I'm kind of, like, laughing at myself as I watch it because I'm, like, I come from a line of people who enjoy this.
就像，这其实是，
Like, this is, like,
你知道的，
you know,
我是在延续我家族的
it's I'm like continuing my family that
我觉得
I think
让听众清楚一点。
Let's be clear to the listener.
我看这些场景时，并不一定在想我奶奶。
I'm not thinking about my grandma necessarily when I'm watching a lot of those scenes.
但当我现在回想起来，我觉得那种感觉其实还挺好的，我想。
But, like, when I think about it now, I'm, like, there is something kind of, like, nice about that, I guess.
我找到了属于我自己的、我喜欢的版本。
Like, I found my version of it that I enjoy.
我生命中有一段时间，我特别害怕奶奶知道我是同性恋。
There was a period of time in my life where I was, like, terrified of my grandma knowing I was gay.
而现在，我正在看HBO的《Gay Smith》，我觉得让我喜欢这一切的基因就是从她那里传下来的。
And now I'm, like, watching Gay Smith on HBO, and I'm, the gene that makes me like this comes from her.
有时候，新的设定并不是什么重大的揭秘。
Sometimes the new lore drop isn't some big revelation.
有时候，它只是一个有趣的细小细节。
Sometimes it's just a funny little detail.
你可以享受它，然后继续你的日常生活。
You get to enjoy it and carry on with your day.
阿维娃·德·凯恩菲尔德是我们节目的制作人之一。
Aviva De Kernfeld is one of the producers of our show.
杰克是一名喜剧演员。
Jake is a comedian.
他曾在舞台上讲过这个故事的版本，我们就是从那里第一次听说的。
He told a version of this story on stage, which is where we first heard about it.
他的作品和巡演日期都在Instagram上，账号是JakeWCornell。
His work and his tour dates are on Instagram, JakeWCornell.
接下来，还有一个讨厌马克·扎克伯格的理由。
Coming up, one more reason to hate Mark Zuckerberg.
这个理由我打赌你绝对想不到。
This one I bet you did not see coming.
马上从芝加哥公共广播电台继续我们的节目。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
这是艾拉·格拉斯的《美国生活》。
This is American Life from Ira Glass.
今天的节目是‘新 lore 增补’，讲述人们发现关于自己生活的信息，这些信息让他们以全新的视角看待事物。
Today's show, new lore drop, stories of people discovering information about their own lives that they did not know information makes them see things very differently.
好的。
Okay.
所以，在节目继续之前，简单提醒一下：如果我们走散了，你找不到我，有人来接你时，我们再复习一下。
So just a quick reminder as the show continues, if we get separated and you can't find me and somebody comes to get you, let's just review.
暗号是什么？
What's the code word?
忍者神龟。
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
对，没错。
That's right.
别忘了。
Don't forget it.
我们进入了节目的第二幕。
We arrived at act two of our program.
第二幕，舆论平台。
Act two, bully pulpit.
最近，记者本·奥斯汀经历了一次类似衣橱的转变，但这种转变并不是那种让一切突然变得清晰、世界仿佛豁然开朗的类型。
So reporter Ben Austin had a kind of wardrobe happen to him recently, and he was not the clarifying kind of wardrobe where everything suddenly makes sense, the world seems clearer.
恰恰相反。
It was kind of the opposite.
本说，他的整个经历始于Facebook。
Ben says his whole thing started over Facebook.
本是那种讨厌Facebook的人。
Ben is one of those people who hates Facebook.
他讨厌，却又忍不住一直看。
He hates but also keeps looking at.
也许他并不是唯一一个这样的人。
Maybe he's not the only person who ever does that.
本有一个规矩。
Ben had this rule.
他会接受好友请求，但从不主动发送。
He would accept friend requests, but he'd never make them.
然后有一天，他看到一条消息，说他小学六年级的老师去世了。
And then one day sees a post that his sixth grade teacher had died.
这位老师是他非常爱戴的，所有人都很喜欢他。
This was a teacher he loved and everybody loved.
他的所有老同学都在分享回忆。
And all of his old classmates were sharing memories.
我坐在那里，心想，天啊，这些是我一起长大的朋友。
I was sitting there, and I was like, man, these are my friends, you know, that I grew up with.
于是我开始加他们为好友。
And so I started friending them.
我打破了我自己的规则。
I, like, broke my rule.
有个叫查卡的孩子，我以前常和他一起玩，还有个女孩叫阿拉娜，以及马尔科姆·斯佩勒。
And there was, like, this kid, Chaka, that I that I hung out with, and this girl, Alana, and Malcolm Speller.
我就开始一一加他们为好友。
I just started friending all of them.
嗯。
Mhmm.
还有另一个孩子。
And then there was this one other kid.
他叫埃迪。
His name was Eddie.
我停了下来。
And I paused.
他该联系埃迪吗？
Should he reach out to Eddie?
他和埃迪从刚学会走路时就在一所位于芝加哥南区的犹太日校上学了。
He got into school with Eddie from, like, since they were first learning to walk, initially at this Jewish day school on the South Side Of Chicago.
我们俩在六年级时转到了这所公立学校。
We both transferred to this public school in sixth grade.
我记得我听说，埃迪的妈妈告诉了犹太日校的办公室人员，而那个人又告诉我妈妈，埃迪转学的原因是跟着我——本·奥斯顿——到了公立学校。
And I remember hearing that his mom told, like, the office lady at the Jewish day school who told my mom that the reason Eddie transferred schools followed him to the public school, I e, Ben Austin, meaning me.
我是他转学的原因。
I was the reason he transferred.
你你你是他转去公立学校的原因，然后你后来去了
You you you're the reason he transferred to public school, and then then you turned out to go to
嗯。
Yeah.
所以我就想，哦，他 probably 不想听到我的消息。
Some public So I was like, oh, he probably doesn't wanna hear from me.
但另一方面，几十年过去了。
But on the other hand, decades have passed.
对吧？
Right?
他们现在都是成年人了。
They were adults now.
他们都有孩子了。
They both had kids.
这个叫埃迪的人实际上成为了一名拉比。
This guy Eddie had actually become a rabbi.
成年的本不希望成年的埃迪发现，他给其他所有人都加了好友，唯独没加自己，从而感到受伤。
And adult Ben didn't want adult Eddie to somehow see that he'd friended everybody else and then not him and then be hurt by that.
所以他发出了好友请求。
So he sends the friend request.
非常迅速地。
Very quickly.
他收到了一条回复。
He gets a message back.
他给我回了一篇大约两千字的长文。
And there seemed to be like a 2,000 word essay that he wrote me in response.
让我请你读一小段那段文字。
Let me ask you to read a little bit of that.
好的。
Okay.
在我通过我的2100个Facebook好友向全世界宣布你和我是朋友之前，我需要坦白一件事。
Before I broadcast to the world via my 2,100 Facebook friends that you and I are friends, I need to get something off my chest.
这听起来可能很琐碎，但当我们还在阿基瓦谢克特学校当孩子时，我在你面前感到不安全。
This may sound petty, but when we were boys at Akiva Schecter, I felt insecure in your presence.
从幼儿园到五年级，我记得你曾言语上，有时甚至身体上威胁过我。
From nursery school through fifth grade, I recall feeling verbally and at times physically threatened by you.
我不会详述具体事件，而且我认为这并不重要。
I'm not gonna go into specific incidents, and I don't think it matters.
重要的是我的感受。
What matters is how I felt.
我很遗憾地说，当我向自己孩子和犹太会堂里的学生讲述欺凌问题时，我脑海中最深处浮现的画面，就是当年被你威胁的感觉。
I'm sad to say it, but when I teach my own children and students in my synagogue about bullying, the image in the deepest recesses of my mind is a memory of feeling threatened by you.
然后他在给你的消息中继续说，我们当时只是孩子。
And then he goes on in his message to you to say, we were kids.
我意识到这并不是你的错。
I realized it wasn't your fault.
你当时是个孩子。
You were a kid.
然后他说，但即使我们长大后，我依然多年来背负着这段经历的重担。
And then he says, but even as we got older, I have still carried with me all those years the burden of that experience.
接下来，请你读一读他这封信的结尾部分。
And then let me ask you to read how he ends this message to you.
好的。
Alright.
我需要摆脱这个困扰我已久的重担。
I need to release myself from the burden that has plagued me for so long.
对不起，因为一个无害的好友请求就把这些全部倾倒给你。
I am sorry for throwing all this at you over an innocent friend request.
我为多年来一直压抑这些情绪、没有更努力地尽早修复我们之间的关系而道歉。
I apologize for holding back all these years and not trying harder to bring about healing in our relationship sooner.
如果你愿意承认三十多年前我们还是孩子时，我对你身边所感受到的伤害与不安，那么我不但会原谅你，还会欣然成为你真正意义上的朋友。
If you are willing to acknowledge the hurt and the insecurity that I felt in your presence when we were boys more than thirty years ago, then I not only will forgive you, I will be happy to be your friend in all senses of the term.
此致，埃迪。
Best regards, Eddie.
你收到那条信息时怎么想的？
What did you think when you got that?
天啊。
Boy.
老实说，我当时就想，去他的Facebook。
Like, honestly, was like, fuck Facebook.
但我当时也想
But I also thought
等等。
Wait.
你是在怪Facebook吗？
You're blaming Facebook for this?
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就想，我为什么会在那儿？
I was like, why did I why was I on that?
我就是想，我为什么要参与？
It's like, why did I why did I participate?
我当时就知道了。
It was like, I knew it.
我当时就知道了。
I knew it.
我的意思是，说实话，我最强烈的感觉就是，我想不起我对他做过什么。
I mean, to be honest, like, the biggest thing I felt was, like, I just I I couldn't think of something that I did to him.
我真的不记得有任何一次伤害他或对他说过刻薄话的事情。
I don't I don't I don't have any recollection of a single incident of of of harming him or saying something cruel to him.
但与此同时，我在想，这并不意味着事情没发生过。
And at the same time, I'm thinking, like, that doesn't that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
我也在想，也许我真的没注意到，或者根本没想起来。
I'm also thinking, like, maybe I actually just don't I just wasn't aware of it, or I didn't recollect it.
所以这些想法都在我脑海中盘旋。
So all those things are swirling through my head.
在此之前，本从未认为自己是个霸凌者。
Before this, Ben had never thought of himself as a bully.
他说，小时候他确实很顽皮。
He says, yeah, as a kid, he was unruly.
他经常被叫到校长办公室，但总体上是个开朗的人，和埃迪描述的完全不一样。
He spent a lot of time in the principal's office, but generally fun loving, nothing like what Eddie was describing.
尽管如此，本还是觉得应该道歉，即使他不记得自己做过什么。
Still, Ben figures he'll apologize, even though he doesn't remember doing anything.
于是，他最终写下了这段措辞谨慎、非诚恳的道歉。
And so then what he ends up writing is this carefully worded, non apology apology.
他写道，自己深感羞愧。
He writes that he's deeply embarrassed.
他为让埃迪有这种感受而感到抱歉。
He's sorry he made Eddie feel this way.
然后他忍不住讲起了这个故事。
And then he can't resist, he goes on to tell this story.
这是他关于他们小时候一起经历的一段回忆。
It's a memory he had from when they were little kids together.
老师带全班同学到学校对面的一个公园里。
The teacher had taken the class out to a park across from the school.
他正坐在圈子里玩‘老狼老狼几点了’，这时一只没有拴绳的金毛混血犬跑了过来。
He's sitting in a circle playing duck duck goose, and this dog runs over, off leash, golden retriever mutt.
也许那是一只小狗，本这样想。
Maybe it was a puppy, Ben thinks.
你知道吗，那是你这辈子见过的最不吓人的狗。
You know, the most unintimidating dog you could ever see in your life.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我记得我转头看到埃迪看到狗时的表情，他看起来就像见了鬼一样。
And I remember looking over and seeing Eddie's face as he saw the dog, and he looked like he had just seen a ghost.
纯粹的恐惧。
Just pure terror.
他站了起来，我记得冲他大喊，也许我是在虚构这段记忆，但这就是我记住的样子。
He stood up, and I remember shouting at him, and maybe I'm inventing this memory, but this is how I remember it.
我说，埃迪，坐下。
I said, Eddie, sit down.
你知道，那条狗根本对你没兴趣。
You know, the dog isn't interested in you.
他开始跑，而那条狗，作为一条狗，立刻追了上去。
And he starts to run, And the dog, being a dog, gave chase.
我对埃迪说，也许我就像那条狗。
And I said to Eddie that maybe I was a lot like that dog.
你知道的，活泼、爱玩，当有什么东西逃跑时，我就是那种会去追的人。
You know, like, rambunctious, playful, and, like, when things ran, I was the kind of person that would give chase.
你通过这个故事想表达的是，也许我确实做了什么，但问题在于你太害怕我了，而我根本无意伤害你？
Were you saying through that story, like, maybe I did something, but the problem was that you were too scared of me, and I meant you no harm?
像那只狗吗？
Like that dog?
你是想通过这个故事表达这个意思吗？
Is that what you're trying to say with this story?
完全对。
Totally.
我想说的是，对不起。
I was saying, like, I'm sorry.
我不希望你感到难过，我愿意站出来，说些该说的话。
I don't want you to feel bad, and I'm willing to, like, step up and, like, you know, say the things.
但我也得讲这个该死的故事，其实问题不在我。
But then I also had to tell this damn story, which is like, it's actually not me.
问题在你。
It's you.
我知道这样说可能不公平，但你害怕的那些东西，其实根本对你构不成威胁。
Like, you know, I'm not sure that's fair, but like but like, you know, you were you were scared of a mat of things that weren't, like, actually threatening you.
本结束了消息。
Ben ended his message.
我明白。
I do understand.
我承认。
I do acknowledge.
我很抱歉。
I am sorry.
真诚的，本。
Sincerely, Ben.
所以他发了消息。
So he sends the message.
埃迪立刻给他回了消息。
Eddie writes him right back.
再次，那种感觉就像回复的提示音几乎在我按下发送的瞬间就回来了。
Again, it felt like the ping came back, almost like, you know, the moment I press in.
他开始说：感谢上帝赐予我们生命，维持我们的生活，并让我们抵达这一刻。
And he starts, I give thanks to God who has given us life and sustained us and allowed us to reach this moment.
今天是喜悦的一天。
Today is a joyful day.
我无法充分表达我被你的话多么深深打动。
I can't adequately express how moved I am by your words.
你是一个真正有品格的人。
You are a mensch.
我对您对第53街公园（现称哈罗德·华盛顿公园）记忆的准确性感到震惊。
I am stunned by the accuracy of your recollection of the 53rd Street Park, now the Harold Washington Park.
说实话，我直到成年都一直深受对狗的恐惧困扰。
To be honest, I struggled with phobia of dogs well into adulthood.
让我在这里打断你一下。
And let me just interrupt you there.
所以他也重新讲了一遍这个故事，但他似乎没有理解你故事中的重点——也许真正对那些并不可怕的事物感到害怕的人是他自己。
So then he sort of retells the story too, but he doesn't seem to understand the point you were trying to make with your story, that maybe he was the one who was a little too scared of things that weren't scary.
然后他写道，他感觉可以真正埋葬你们之间长达三十多年未被承认的紧张关系。
And then he writes that he feels like he can literally bury the tension between the two of you that went unacknowledged for more than thirty years.
请读一下他的结语。
Just read his closing lines here.
是的。
Yeah.
我感激这新的篇章。
I am grateful for this new chapter.
这一点不言而喻，但仍然重要：我原谅你。
Needless to say at this point, but still important, I forgive you.
我期待保持联系，享受真正的友谊。
I look forward to staying in touch and enjoying a true friendship.
你的朋友，埃迪。
Your friend, Eddie.
此时此刻，你觉得你是否曾欺负过他，还是
At this point, do you feel like you might have done something to bully him, or do
你其实根本不认为你做了什么，这一切都只是他脑子里的想法吗？
you actually not believe you did anything and it's all in his head?
因为我觉得这两种情况都有可能。
Because I think both things are possible.
对吧？
Right?
你真的可能做过一些实际的事情，如果你直接问他，他会告诉你，然后你意识到：哦，对，我确实做过。
You really might have done something real that he could tell you if you asked him directly, and you realize, oh, yeah.
我确实那样做了。
I did that.
但同时也有可能，他根本想不出任何具体事件。
But it also might be possible, like, he can't come up with any incident.
你觉得真相是什么？
What do you think is the truth?
嗯。
Yeah.
我真的不知道。
I gotta I I actually don't know.
我的意思是，你这么一说，我完全没头绪。
I mean, the way you frame that, like, I I have no fucking idea.
这件事在本的脑子里卡住了。
This got stuck in Ben's head.
他到底做过什么，如果有的话？
What had he done, if anything?
他是个好孩子还是坏孩子？
Had he been a good kid or a bad kid?
本决定去弄清楚。
Ben decided to find out.
问拉比似乎是个好问题。
Seemed like a good question to ask a rabbi.
对吧？
Right?
他准备了这份报告。
He prepared this report.
我联系了
I reach out
去找埃迪，问他是否愿意重新回顾我们往来的信息和彼此的回忆。
to Eddie, ask if he's game to revisit the messages we sent back and forth, our memories of each other.
当然，他说。
Sure, he says.
当面做这件事更有意义。
It makes sense to do this in person.
他在佛罗里达，离博卡拉顿不远的一个住宅区里。
He's in Florida, a short drive outside Boca Raton in a subdivision.
我们面前有一棵棕榈树，还有修剪整齐的灌木丛。
There's a palm tree right in front of us, sculpted bushes.
还有一栋房子亮着圣诞装饰灯。
There's also a house glowing with Christmas decorations.
另一户门口挂着‘小心恶犬’的标牌。
Another displaying a beware of dog sign.
我知道这两户都不是埃迪的。
I know neither can be Eddie's.
他的房子在中间那户。
His is the one in between.
埃迪从前门走出来。
Eddie emerges from the front door.
埃迪。
Eddie.
我停一下。
I'll stop.
谢谢。
Thank you.
很高兴见到你。
Great to see you.
谢谢你做这件事。
Thanks for doing this.
希望你今天晒到了一些阳光。
Hope you got some sun rays today.
自从我们还是孩子以来，我只见过埃迪一次，但他的样子让我深深想起我记忆中的那个孩子。
I've seen Eddie only once since we were kids, and I'm struck by how much he looks like the kid I remember.
尽管他现在身高约六英尺，山羊胡里有了灰发，但他戴着一顶小圆帽。
Even though he's now about six feet with gray in his goatee, he's wearing a yarmulke.
他还别了一个挂在腰带上的小包来放手机。
He's also got this pouch attached to his belt for his phone.
他带我进了屋。
He leads me inside.
这是我妻子，阿里埃拉。
This is my wife, Ariella.
你好。
Hi.
嗨。
Hi.
很高兴认识
Nice to meet
你。
you.
欢迎。
Welcome.
欢迎。
Welcome.
我弟弟拉斯塔尼。
My brother Lashtani.
嘿。
Hey.
很高兴
Good to
认识你。
meet you.
他十几岁的女儿在家。
His teenage daughter is home.
他的另外两个孩子在外面闯荡。
His other two kids are out in the world.
他说其中一个即将结婚。
He says one is about to get married.
他曾在不同的会众担任拉比，但他告诉我，他现在是一名医院的牧师。
He's been a rabbi at different congregations, but he tells me he now works as a chaplain at a hospital.
他喜欢这份工作，因为他可以照顾所有宗教信仰的人。
He likes it because he gets to tend to people of all religions.
埃迪带我走进餐厅。
Eddie guides me into the dining room.
桌上摆满了照片，几乎每一张都是我们。
Laid out on the table, there are all these photographs, nearly every one of them of us.
好吧。
Alright.
看到这些东西，我有点不好意思。
I'm a little embarrassed of seeing all these things.
嗯。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes.
这让我措手不及。
It catches me off guard.
埃迪一直在为这次会面做准备。
Eddie's been preparing for this meeting.
我们也上过同一所高中。
We went to the same high school too.
我们的年鉴翻到了我的高中毕业照。
Our yearbook is open to my senior picture.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以那就是你。
So that's you.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
那就是我。
That's me.
我只是想说，你妻子是
I just this is Your wife is
在这里。
in here.
嗯。
Yep.
她是。
She is.
我的妻子丹妮尔也和我们同年高中毕业。
My wife Danielle also graduated high school with us.
显然，我和她保持了更好的联系。
Obviously, I kept in better touch with her.
然后埃迪指着一张我从未见过的褪色照片。
Then Eddie points to a faded photo I've never seen before.
九。
Nine.
照片里是一群小孩子围坐在桌子旁吃纸杯蛋糕。
It's of little kids in a classroom around a table eating cupcakes.
一。
One.
那是埃迪站着，离他不远的地方是我。
That's There's Eddie standing, and not far from him, me.
1977年，你和我都六岁了。
1977, you and I both turned six.
五月是我六岁生日，这是我的六岁生日派对。
So May was my sixth birthday, and this is my sixth birthday party.
所以这是我戴着王冠，而你当然也在里面。
So that's me with a crown, and that's you, of course.
是的。
Yeah.
站在正中央。
Front and center.
我们俩都笑得非常灿烂。
Both of us are smiling as wide as can be.
但我知道，在埃迪生命的四十多年里，他看着这样一张照片，一直被我困扰着。
But I know for more than forty years of Eddie's life, he looked at a photo like this one and was haunted by me.
他这样想是对的吗？
Was he right to feel that way?
这些年来，我对自己是谁的理解错了吗？
Have I been wrong all these years about who I am?
埃迪告诉我，他第一次再次听到我的消息时的情景。
Eddie tells me about the moment he first heard from me again.
他当时就在这儿的厨房里，为家人做晚饭。
He was just down the hall here in the kitchen making dinner for his family.
我拿起手机，正在摆桌子，或者等饭菜热一下，突然看到本·奥斯顿的好友请求，我一下子愣住了。
I picked up my phone and was getting the table set and whatever or waiting for dinner to warm up, and I saw a friend request from Ben Austin, it stopped me cold.
直到今天，这仍然让我感到奇怪，因为你知道，我这一生遇到过很多人。
In a strange sense, surprises me even to this day because, I mean, you know, I've encountered a lot of people throughout my life.
但你和别人不一样，这就是我对你的记忆——我感到你对我构成了威胁。
And for something was different with you, and that's my memory of you, I felt, threatened by you.
我觉得你一直欺负我。
I I I felt you were a bully towards me.
好吧。
Alright.
这就是我下来的原因。
This is why I came down here.
这个问题对我来说更难开口，而且我可能一直回避着。
This is a way harder question for me to ask you and one that I've probably avoided.
我知道我以前就回避过。
I know I've avoided before.
那我做了什么？
And what did I do?
我是怎么欺负你的？
Like like, how was that your bully?
是的。
Yeah.
我很高兴有机会讨论这件事。
I'm glad to have the opportunity to discuss it.
我不想，嗯。
I didn't wanna Yeah.
我知道。
I know.
拿一些琐碎的事情烦你。
Burden you about petty stuff.
我的意思是，我们谈论的是我们六七岁、八岁时发生的事，而我们现在几乎都快55岁了。
I mean, we're talking about stuff that happened between us when we were six, seven, eight years old and here we are now almost on the cusp of being 55 years old.
所以这已经是将近五十年前的事了。
So this is fifty years almost in the past.
所以这看起来很琐碎，但你还记得当年你叫我什么吗？
So it seems petty but do you remember what you called me in those early years?
医生。
Doctor.
完全不记得了，埃迪。
Not at all, Eddie.
我简直想冲出这个房间。
I'm like I almost wanna run out of the room.
我不行，好吧。
I don't Okay.
知道。
Know.
对。
Right.
所以你叫我埃迪·意大利面。
So you called me Eddie Spaghetti.
我当时的第一反应，现在回想起来我觉得很抱歉，我想笑。
My response right then, and I feel terrible for saying this, I want to laugh.
我的意思是，我确实能想象自己会这么说。
I mean, I definitely could see myself saying this.
我并不否认这一点。
I'm not denying that.
但在完全不记得我對埃迪做了什麼的情况下，我想象的却要糟糕得多。
But in the absence of any memory of what I did to Eddie, I had imagined, I don't know, something so much worse.
我千里迢迢来到佛罗里达，就为了一个滑稽的押韵。
I came all this way to Florida for a goofy rhyme.
对于六岁时的我来说，我非常敏感。
For the six year old version of me, I was hypersensitive.
每次你叫我Eddie Spaghetti，我都会哭出来，全班同学都会笑。
Every time you called me Eddie Spaghetti, I burst into tears and the rest of the class would laugh.
Mark会笑，Ari会笑，其他人也会跟着喊我‘你就是Eddie’。
Mark would laugh, Ari would laugh, and other people would join in calling me You're Eddie
指着这里年鉴照片里的这些孩子。
pointing at the yearbook pictures here of these kids.
是的。
Yeah.
现在看来，这一切都显得很傻。
And it all seems so silly now.
简直荒谬至极。
It's utterly silly.
作为一个六岁的小孩，我觉得自己就是班上被大家取笑的那个人。
As a six year old kid, I felt like, you know, I was the one everyone made fun of in class.
我明白。
I do get it.
这关乎埃迪当年有多艰难，他多么觉得自己是个局外人，而我就是那些让情况更糟的孩子之一。
It's about what a hard time Eddie had back then, how much he felt like an outsider, and how I I was one of the kids who made it harder.
但更奇怪的是，我们两个五十多岁的男人坐在这里，听他复述我六七岁时说过的话。
But it's also just so weird the two of us sitting here, two men in our fifties, and hearing him repeat what I said when I was, like, six or seven.
我开个紧张的玩笑，说意大利面是积极的。
I make a nervous joke about spaghetti being positive.
它有面条般的弹性，而且很好吃。
It's noodley flexibility, plus it's delicious.
我总是对别人说这种话。
Those are the kinds of things I say to people, always have.
我知道，你对埃迪的话的反应，你现在对他的感受或对我的感受，很可能取决于你与自己过去的关系。
I recognize that how you react to Eddie's words, what you feel right now about him or me, probably depends on your relationship to your own past.
也许你正在回忆别人对你做过的事，或者你对别人做过的事。
Maybe you're remembering things being done to you or doing things to someone else.
或者你属于那种已经忘记了一切这类事情的人，而你恰恰希望它们就这样被遗忘。
Or maybe you're the type who's forgotten all this sort of stuff, and that's exactly where you wanna keep it.
埃迪停顿了一下，我觉得他说完了。
Eddie pauses, and I think he's done.
他就只有这些了。
That's all he's got.
我想，我其实也没那么坏。
I guess I wasn't such a bad kid after all.
但接着，埃迪低头看向一张黄色的便签纸。
But then Eddie looks down at a yellow legal pad.
上面写满了手写的笔记。
It's covered in handwritten notes.
肯定还有更多内容。
There's definitely more.
那一定是小学一年级或二年级，因为那时候我们大多数人都有那种金属午餐盒，上面通常是电视节目的主题图案。
It must have been first or second grade because most of us had those metal lunch boxes usually with themes from TV shows on them.
你
What did you
说什么？
say?
我的午餐盒是《六百万美元人》，主角是李·梅杰斯扮演的史蒂夫·奥斯汀。
My lunch box was The 6,000,000 Dollar Man with Steve Austin, played by Lee Majors.
我太喜欢了。
I love it.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以我和
So I
这最终变成了一个关于我做过的一件事的故事，那件事看起来更糟，至少在身体上更严重。
This turns out to be a story about a time I did something that seems worse, physically worse, at least.
他说：‘我们六岁的时候，我揍了他一顿。’
He says, When we were six, I kicked his ass.
我不确定他为什么没先说这个。
I'm not sure why he didn't lead with that.
他是这么记得事情经过的。
Here's how he remembers it going down.
所以，到了午餐时间。
So, it's lunchtime.
老师让大家都把饭盒排好队拿。
The teacher's telling everybody to get their lunchboxes in the line up.
我拿出我的金属饭盒，结果另一个人的金属饭盒掉下来，砸在你肩膀上。
And I pull my metal lunch box off and someone else's metal lunch box falls on you, like falls on your shoulder.
也许你第二天肩膀上有了淤青，但我记得的是，你随后就开始打我。
Maybe you had a bruise the next day but what I do remember is you then just started whacking me.
就像你打了我？
Like I hit you?
是的，你打了我好多次，我清楚地记得你的眼神，那里面全是愤怒。
Yeah, hitting me multiple times and I really remember seeing your eyes and seeing rage in your eyes.
所以，你是说你身体上？
So, you're you're physically?
在 physically 打我。
Physically whacking me.
最后，老师过来把我们分开了。
And then finally, teacher came over and separated us.
那天之后的事我就记不清了。
And I don't remember anything else that day.
我只记得你打我，还有你眼中的愤怒。
Just I remember you hitting me, and I remember the rage in your eyes.
他说他并没有受严重的伤之类的。
He says he wasn't seriously injured or anything.
我们当时都只是小孩子。
We were both just little kids.
我不记得这些事了。
I don't recall any of this.
嗯，我真的很抱歉那样做。
Well, I'm, I'm definitely sorry for that.
我不太清楚该怎么理解这件事。
I don't quite know what how to what to make of it.
我那样做意味着什么？
What does it mean that I did that?
我觉得，埃迪，我那时候可能经常打架。
I I think, Eddie, I I probably fought a lot at those times.
我揍了埃迪，这太糟糕了。
It's terrible I beat Eddie up.
这对我来说似乎并不完全出乎意料。
This doesn't seem totally out of character for me.
我的意思是，我记得那时候在操场上，孩子们把球扔到我脸上。
I mean, I remember on the playground back then, kids throwing a ball in my face.
我会生气，把球扔回去，然后继续玩。
I'd get mad and throw it back in theirs, and then we'd go on playing.
我不明白的是，为什么那天我对埃迪做的事，从我们童年时的其他混乱中如此突出。
What I don't get is why what I did to Eddie that day stood out so much from the other chaos of childhood around us.
在埃迪和我上过的初中，放学后一个孩子对另一个孩子说这样的话并不罕见。
In the middle school Eddie and I both attended, it wasn't uncommon for one kid to say to another, after school.
意思是，下午三点三十分，在停车场或操场上，我们要打一架。
Meaning, at 03:30 in the parking lot or on the playground, we're gonna fight.
有时候这话是对我说的。
It was sometimes said to me.
到了高中，我尽量避免打架。
When we got to high school, I tried to avoid fights as much as possible.
代价太高了。
The stakes were too high.
我看到我们学校的孩子们挥舞球棒、高尔夫球杆，甚至有一次还有一把斧头。
I saw kids at my school swing bats, golf clubs, once a hatchet.
我们上初中那年，有两个家伙为了我的金链子袭击了我。
Our junior year, two guys jumped me for a gold chain.
我妻子说，那周我带着断掉的鼻子和两个黑眼圈去学校时，是她第一次注意到我，就像注意到一个潜在的伴侣一样。
My wife says when I showed up at school that week with a broken nose and two black eyes, it was the first time she noticed me, like noticed me as a potential mate.
我不确定这说明了我们中的谁。
Not sure what that says about either of us.
我记得这些时刻，但它们并没有像我对埃迪造成的那样困扰我。
I remember these moments, but I don't feel plagued by them, not in the way Eddie was by me.
但我在说完这些后意识到，有一部分我是在为自己辩护，那个小男孩本。
But I realized in saying all that, part of me is defending myself, little kid Ben.
我试图证明我不是个霸凌者。
I'm trying to prove I wasn't a bully.
后来，我甚至联系了芝加哥的一位小学校长，想看看我当年的行为是否符合他们定义的霸凌四条标准。
Later, I even talked with an elementary school principal in Chicago to see whether my actions back then checked their four boxes of bullying.
至少有两条我符合。
I did check at least two.
埃迪的记事本上还有一个他想让我听的记忆。
Eddie has one more memory on his notepad that he wants me to hear.
我记得，我们在第53街公园。
As I recall, we're at the 53rd Street Park.
老师在天气不错的一天带我们出去了。
Teacher took us out on a nice day.
我们坐在那里玩‘鸭子鸭子鹅’。
We're sitting, playing duck, duck, goose.
然后
And
他重复了我在Facebook交流中分享给他的同一个故事。
He repeats the same story I shared with him in our Facebook exchange.
它开头和我记忆中的一样，但结局不同。
It starts just as I remember, but with a different conclusion.
就是那个故事，关于我们七八岁时全班去公园，有一只狗没拴绳子。
It's that story of how when we were seven or eight and our class went to the park, a dog was off leash.
我有严重的恐惧症，当时我拔腿就跑，尖叫着逃开。
I had a serious phobia and I just high tailed it and I ran screaming.
我不确定是不是那次，但我记得还有其他几次，我跑过海德公园大道——那是一条繁忙的街道，有公交车、汽车和卡车，我跑回学校大楼那边的安全地带。
I don't know if it was that time, but I know there were other times that I ran across Hyde Park Boulevard, which is a busy street with buses and cars and trucks back to the safe side where the school building was.
我记得你和其他同学都笑话我。
And I remember being laughed at by you and other students in the class.
我不是说你一个人，但我感觉你是带头的。
Not saying you're the only one, but I perceived you as the ringleader.
天啊，我讲的那个故事里，情况恰恰相反，我根本没笑。
Man, I mean, in the story I told, it was the opposite of laughing.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时是在试图保护你。
Like I was I was trying to protect you.
当然。
Of course.
我们对这部分的记忆如此不同。
That's the part we remember so differently.
也许我坚持自己的版本，是因为在这个版本里，我把自己塑造成好人。
Maybe I've held on to my version because in it, I've cast myself as the good guy.
我看到他的恐惧，而我是那个喊住他、让他别跑的人。
I see his terror, and I'm the one calling out to him, telling him not to run.
埃迪描述了那天另一个嘲笑他跑得有多快的男孩。
Eddie describes another boy who teased him that day about how fast Eddie ran from the dog.
如果总有一只狗在后面追他，他都能当田径明星了。
He could be a track star if there was always a dog behind him.
埃迪也把这笔账算在我头上。
Eddie blamed me for that one too.
那就是我们当时看待我的方式。
That's just how we saw me back then.
在我对童年早期的记忆中，你一直在嘲笑我。
My memory over the arc of our young childhood was being teased by you.
在某个时候，这种感觉与我对狗的恐惧交织在一起，因此某种程度上，你变成了那只狗。
And at some point that became layered on my dog phobia and so in a way you became the dog.
而我也确实成了那只狗。
And and I mean I became the dog.
对埃迪来说，我变成了他生命中的一个重要人物。
For Eddie, I turned into this major figure in his life.
我成了那个反派。
I became this villain.
埃迪告诉我，他转学时，我并不是唯一的原因，但我是其中一部分。
Eddie tells me that when he changed schools, I wasn't the only reason, but I was part of it.
他还告诉我，几十年后他看到一张照片。
And he tells me how decades later he saw a photo.
那是我们高中毕业二十周年的聚会照片。
It was from our twentieth high school reunion.
他在背景中看到了我，庆幸自己没有去参加。
He spotted me in the background and was relieved he didn't go.
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