Walking and Talking with Storyteller Joel Duntin

大家好，Walk Stars们。

Hello, Walk Stars.

希望你们都过得不错。

I hope you're all well.

这一年这个时候可真够忙的。

It's a busy time of year.

希望你们的散步能成为这个年底，面对世界和生活种种纷扰时的一点小小喘息。

I hope you're finding your walks to be a nice little respite from everything that's going on in the world and in our lives at this end of year.

而且我

And I

特别期待跟一位特别棒的人——乔尔·邓廷——聊一聊。

am looking forward to sharing this upcoming conversation with a just beautiful human being, Joel Duntin.

我们还没见过面。

We haven't met in person.

但我们在网上认识了，我一直关注他的作品，他是个特别踏实、有灵性的讲故事的人，所以我主动联系他，问他愿不愿意来我的《晨间散步》播客做客，说实话，那场对话真的特别温暖、舒服。

We've met digitally and I have been seeing his work for a bit as a beautiful, grounded, soulful storyteller, and so I reached out to him to see if he'd be willing to join me on this Morning Walk podcast, and I will say it was such a beautiful, comforting conversation.

我觉得这个时候听这个再合适不过了。

I think it's absolutely perfect for this time of year.

他的声音特别让人放松。

I find his voice so soothing.

他讲故事的方式，温柔得让人心安。

The way he communicates is through story and, this beautiful gentleness.

我真的超爱这次对话。

Oh, I just love this conversation.

希望你们都好好的。

I hope you're all well.

希望你们也和我一样，喜欢这次对话。

I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did.

如果喜欢的话，欢迎点赞评论、转发，但更重要的是，希望你们在迎接2024年底的时候，能有一段美好的散步时光。

If you like it, feel free to review, share, but more importantly, I hope you have a beautiful walk as we approach the end of 2024.

我跟你们说个事儿，我给身边亲近的人送的礼物，都是‘2025年随便哪天去散个步’的券。

I will share with you that one of the things I give the people I love, are coupons to go for a walk sometime during 2025.

对我来说，这是给所爱之人表达爱意的最暖心的方式之一。

It's, for me, one of the ultimate gestures of love to the people I love.

一张小小的优惠券，写着：免费赠送一次一起散步的机会。

A pretty little coupon that says, yeah, good for one walk together.

有时候其实是线上散步，说实话。

Sometimes it's virtual, honestly.

如果对方在别处，我们就打电话，一边聊一边‘走’，就当是陪在彼此身边。

If somebody's in a different place, we will get on the phone and go for a walk together and just be together.

不管怎样，祝大家2024年尾过得美好，非常感谢你们一路与我们同行。

In any case, have a wonderful end of 2024, and I thank you all so much for walking with us.

看看你现在在哪。

Look where you are.

真美啊。

It's so beautiful.

哦，你是在走……

Oh, you I'm walking in

现在在公园里。

a park right now.

所以啊，这就是附近的一个小公园，地上全是雪。

So, yeah, this is just a local park here, and it's very snowy.

哇，真美啊。

Oh, it's very, very beautiful.

能见到你、跟你打个招呼，我太开心了。

I am so happy to see you and say hello to you.

我也是。

Oh, same here.

我也是。

Same here.

我感觉好像已经跟着你们走了好久了。

I feel like I feel like I've been following you for

好久好久了。

such a long time.

我想了想，大概几周前，我突然想查查Elizabeth是谁。

And I think a couple of weeks ago, I was like, let me let me look into who Elizabeth is.

天啊。

And wow.

你这段时间也太忙了吧。

You've been you've been so busy.

太厉害了。

It's amazing.

咱们直接切入正题，你不介意吧？

Do you mind if we just jump right into this conversation?

当然不介意。

Of course.

我得跟你说，每当我需要提醒自己一些特别重要的事，我都会反复看你那个视频。

I have to tell you that it is one of your videos that I turn to over and over again on days when I need to be reminded about really important things.

真的吗？

For real?

哦，我的方式。

Oh, my way.

哦，对。

Oh, yes.

就是你那个关于寻找快乐的视频，特别特别棒。

It's your beautiful, beautiful video about finding joy.

所以……

So

你提到过一个回忆，说你在家里，妈妈望着窗外唱歌。

you described this memory of being in your house and your mom looking out the window and singing.

对。

Right.

你还说到，自己已经好久没唱过歌了。

And your reflection on how you yourself hadn't sung in a while.

这个视频提醒了我，要多囤点快乐。

And this video was a reminder to stock up on joy.

让心里装满快乐，多做那些你真心喜欢的事，因为快乐真的很重要。

Fill your hearts with joy and doing the things that we love, that joy matters.

还有快乐。

And joy.

没错。

That's right.

我们一定会给大家附上这个视频的链接，它在我生命里真是特别重要的一段。

Just, we'll be sure to link everybody to that video, but it is a very important little segment in my life.

谢谢你。

So thank you.

谢谢你制作了这个。

You for producing that.

听到你这么说，我真的特别感动。

You know, it's it's so good to hear that.

你知道吗，做这些东西的时候，很容易就困在自己的小世界里，不知道别人会不会懂。

You know, sometimes when you're creating these things and it's so easy to be in a silo about what you wanna say.

对吧？

Right?

但我心里总有个念头，不管人们身在世界哪个角落，我们其实都有共同的关切。

And but I always have this inkling at the back of my mind that everyone, irrespective of where they are on the planet, where we all have shared concerns.

我觉得其中一点就是，我该怎么活着，怎么找到那些真正让人心动的事儿。

And and I think one of those things is is how do I, I don't know, live this live this life and find the things that really makes your heart sing.

我觉得每个人都在寻找这个。

And I think everyone is searching for that.

能认识你我真的特别开心。

I'm really happy I'm really happy to connect with you.

确实如此。

Oh, it sure did.

那你能跟我们的步行爱好者们说说，你现在在世界的哪个地方散步吗？

So why don't you tell our walk stars where in the world you are walking right now?

我现在在家，马萨诸塞州的纽伯里波特，波士顿北边。

I am at home in Newburyport, Massachusetts, just North of Boston.

这儿可真冷。

It's cold here.

咱们的温度可能差不了多少。

Maybe our temperatures are roughly the same.

按华氏算，我们现在大概二十度，你们那儿是多少？四十摄氏度左右？

Think in Fahrenheit, I think we're at about 20 degrees Fahrenheit, which is what, maybe 40 centigrade for you.

你那边在哪儿？天气怎么样？

So where are you, and what's the temperature like?

你不是说那边雪很多吗？

You have a lot of snow, you said.

是啊。

Yeah.

我住在加拿大，不列颠哥伦比亚省。

So I live in Canada, in British Columbia.

就在西海岸。

So it's on the West Coast.

所以我们和加州，或者旧金山这些地方在同一个时区。

And so we share the same time zone with, like, I don't know, California, I guess, or San Francisco.

我离温哥华机场大概有六个小时的车程。

And I am about six hours from Vancouver Airport.

所以我们其实是在不列颠哥伦比亚省的内陆地区。

So we're really sort of, like, in the interior of of British Columbia.

再开十二个小时左右，就能到阿尔伯塔省了。

And another twelve hours, I guess, we would be in Alberta.

这是个小镇。

So it's a small town.

这儿人不多。

Not not a lot of people out here.

特别偏僻，就是那种电影里常见的小镇。

It's very rural, and it's the kind of town you would see in in movies.

你懂的。

You know?

有个大叔开着辆老福特，慢悠悠开进镇上，找个咖啡馆住下。

Sort of a guy or someone rolls up in a Ford, old Ford, and goes to town and checks into a coffee shop.

就是这种感觉。

It's that sort of vibe.

现在正是冬天，我这儿冬天来得特别早，还特别长。

And we're in the middle of winter right now, and winter tends to come really early where I'm at, and it lasts a very long time.

别人都在庆祝春天来了，我们这儿地上还堆着雪呢。

When everyone is sort of celebrating spring, we still have sort of snow on the ground.

我真没想到自己会住在这么个小镇上。

And I never thought I would find myself in a town like this.

我出生在加勒比海，但成年后大部分时间都住在英国。

I I grew up in I I was born in The Caribbean, but I lived in The UK for, like, most of my adult life.

2015年，我们搬到了卡里布地区，住在一个叫‘一百英里屋’的小地方——名字怪吧？可这真是它的名字。

And 2015, we turned up here in the Cariboo, and it's a small town called One Hundred Mile House, which is a very strange name, but that's what it's called.

这名字还挺浪漫的。

It's a very romantic name.

那是什么让你搬到那里的？

What brought you there?

嗯，我遇到了我老婆。

Well, I met my wife.

我老婆是加拿大人，我们是2009年在伦敦认识的，大概吧。

My wife is Canadian, and we met in London in twenty two thousand and nine, I guess.

她可是地道的加拿大人，我们在伦敦住了好多年。

And so she's Canadian through and through, and we lived in London for many years.

后来呢，就到了该想想未来去哪儿安家的时候了。

And I I guess it came to that time where we were like, where do we see ourselves?

对。

Mhmm.

我们到底想在哪儿生活呢？

You know, where would we wanna live?

你知道吗，跟外国人结婚，就得做一堆重大决定，比如到底在哪儿扎根——因为我们两家亲戚散落在各地，所以得选一个地方：英国、加拿大，还是别的地方。

And, you know, the funny thing when you marry someone from another country, you know, you've got so many big decisions to make about where you want to put down roots because, you know, half of the family we've got family in in in different places, and and so we had to choose, you know, England, Canada, or or somewhere else.

我们两家人都散落在世界各地，真的。

We we both have sort of family all over the globe, really.

最后我们决定试试加拿大。

And we decided to give Canada a go.

我还记得刚到这儿的第一天，这儿叫卡里布。

And I remember the first day I rolled into to where we live now, it's called the Cariboo.

你可以想象一下：牛仔、原住民、牛群，这就是我们社区的背景底色。

So just imagine cowboys and first nations and cattle, and and that's sort of like the backdrop of the community we live in.

从欧洲过来，我从来没见过这样的地方，真的。

And it it was a I I've I've never seen anything like that before, obviously, coming from Europe.

看到人类的另一面，特别有意思。

And it was so fascinating to see this other side of humanity.

慢慢了解这里的文化、人和土地，真的特别美好。

And it's been really interesting sort of learning about the culture here and the people and the land, and it's been beautiful.

我能想象你那儿的生活，还有漫长的冬天，这让我想到你是怎么过日子的。

Oh, I can imagine you there, and I can imagine those long winters, which brings me to how I think of you and how you move through the day.

我觉得你是个特别有诗意的生活记录者，像个歌手，像个艺术家，而且乔尔，你超爱蛋糕。

I think of you as someone who is an absolutely poetic sort of curator of moments, a singer, an artist, and, Joel, you love cake.

说到蛋糕，我可真是个烦人鬼，因为蛋糕是我这辈子最爱的东西之一。

So I so I'm really annoying when it comes to cake because cake is really one of my all time favorite things in the world.

我没见过我不喜欢的蛋糕。

I've never met a cake I didn't like.

我对派就没这感觉，但我觉得蛋糕就是生活中那种天才又开心的瞬间。

I feel very differently about pie, but I think cake is just one of life's genius, joyous moments.

要是真能多相处一段时间，咱们肯定能迅速成为铁哥们。

I think we would be fast friends if we were to actually spend some time together.

你觉得这能算准确描述了你看待世界的方式和驱动你的东西吗？

So do you think that's a good sort of representation of how you move through the world and what motivates you?

还有什么想补充的吗？

Is there anything you would add?

有什么特别想聊聊的吗？

Is there anything you would like to talk about a little bit?

说说看

Tell us

关于什么？

about?

是啊。

Yeah.

对啊。

Yeah.

你想啊，我小时候，我们家的人都特别爱讲故事。

Think, you know, when I growing up, my family, were all big storytellers.

我童年好多时光都是靠在一块儿听故事，那些故事啊，听得人心都揪着疼。

And I think a lot of my childhood was spent sort of huddled together telling stories, and it was the sort of stories that would make your insights hurt.

你知道的吧？

You know?

对。

Yes.

笑声充满了整个房间。

The laughter would fill the room.

虽然我们有电视，也有音乐，但我觉得真正把我们聚在一起的还是讲故事。

And, you know, even though we had television and there was music, I think stories was the thing that really brought us together.

很多时候，尤其是周末或者傍晚太阳落山的时候，散步是我们特别喜欢的事。

And oftentimes, you know, going for walks was a really big thing on a weekend or in the evening time as the sun is going down.

我妈会给我们讲一些近乎民间传说的故事，真的特别像那样。

And we would tell my mom would tell us stories that was almost folklore stories, really.

但我觉得我们听的那些传说，其实讲的都是人性，讲我们怎么跟那些不懂的东西打交道——比如天上飞的，或者地上藏的。

But I think a lot of the folklore stories we heard was really stories about humanity and how we interacted with with things we didn't understand, whether it may be, you know, something in the sky or something below.

那真是我第一次体会到什么叫‘瞬间’。

And that really would that was really kind of my introduction to to moments.

我开始喜欢安静下来，认真听，全神贯注。

And I'm being interested in in being still and listening and being attentive.

我觉得这种习惯，一直伴随着我，直到现在成年了都没变。

And and so I think that is something that stayed with me even in my adult life.

我平时花很多时间在这些事上，真的很有趣。

I I spend a lot of my time it's really interesting.

有时候，只是阳光照在草地上，就能让我特别着迷。

Sometimes it's just about how the sun hits the grass that really gets me going.

你知道吧？

You know?

我看到这样的场景，就会点点头，沉浸其中。

I would see something like that, and Mhmm.

那一刻，我会被一种感觉完全带走。

I would be transported into a feeling.

比如雨打在屋顶上的声音。

It would be how the rain sounds on the roof of a house.

对很多人来说，那只是下雨声，可对我来说，那就是音乐。

And for a lot of people, it's just rain, and for me, it's it's music.

所以我经常就这样，天马行空地感受着这些小事。

And so I do spend a lot of my time being whimsical like that.

我不确定这是不是件好事，但我觉得用这种方式去想事情，真的给我带来很多快乐。

And I'm I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or not, but I I think it brings me a lot of joy to think about things in in those ways.

对。

Yeah.

那跟我聊聊萤火虫、篝火和傍晚的光线吧。

So tell me about fireflies, bonfires, and evening light.

是啊。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

嗯，算是吧。

It's yeah.

我觉得童年就是关于留意这些细节的。

I think childhood was really about noticing those things.

我特别喜欢，我觉得人这一生最大的快乐之一，就是坐下来。

And I really love I think that one of the greatest joys we could have, I think, as people is sitting down.

我觉得我们已经失去了讲故事的本事。

I think we've lost that art of telling stories.

不知怎么的，最近这段时间，这件事一直陪着我度过每一天。

And and it's for some reason, it's been one of the things in in my recent life that's been taking me through the everyday.

我觉得我们住在这儿真不是偶然，尤其是夏天，能坐下来点个篝火，看着太阳慢慢沉到地平线底下，聊聊天。

And and I think, you know, it's no surprise that we live where we live because we have an opportunity, especially over the summer, to sit down, have a bonfire, and talk as the sun goes down over the horizon.

我想分享的，就是这些感觉，这也就是我拍视频的原因。

And I think those are some of the feelings that I just want to share with people, and it's it's why I kind of do my videos.

现在太容易了，尤其是这年头，脑子里塞满各种快节奏的视频和音乐，我自己也经常刷个不停。

Because it's very easy, I think, especially these days, to have your mind sort of bombarded with very quick videos or lots of music, and and I'm even guilty of that myself just sort of scrolling through.

今年早些时候，我问自己：会不会有人愿意花一分钟，听一个大叔唠叨三分钟，说说萤火虫、黄昏的光，还有那些安静的时刻？

And I think earlier this year, I I said to myself, I wonder whether anyone would take a minute to listen to some bloke ramble on for three minutes about fireflies and evening light and, you know, still moments.

我真的没想到，居然有这么多人能感同身受。

And I I I'm really surprised that so many people really connect with that.

嗯，我觉得这真的很美。

And, yeah, I I think it's I think it's beautiful.

我真希望，能有更多这样的机会。

I I wish I wish I wish that there could be more opportunities for things like this.

这也就是为什么我觉得，今年互联网给了我很多快乐——让我遇见了世界各地那些和我追求同样东西的人，真的很美。

And and it's why I think the Internet, I think, especially this year, brought me a lot of a lot of joy just finding different people across the globe who are in the pursuit of the same things, and it's beautiful.

确实很美。

It is beautiful.

说实话，人们被你的故事打动，我一点都不意外。

And I must say, it doesn't surprise me that people react, respond, feel your storytelling.

首先，你是个特别棒的故事讲述者。

Number one, you're a beautiful storyteller.

你是个极其细腻的诗人。

You are an exquisite poet.

我觉得你做的事，是在邀请我们去留意那些天生就能带给我们快乐的事物。

And I think what you're doing is inviting us to look at the things that just almost biologically, instinctually does bring us joy.

说真的，没什么比萤火虫更神奇的了。

Mean, there's nothing more magical than a firefly when we think about it.

是的。

Yeah.

没有什么比篝火和亲朋好友围坐在一起更温暖的了。

There's nothing more warm than a bonfire and your friends and family surrounding it.

你知道吗，黄昏的光线才最迷人。

And, you know, there's nothing more seductive than evening light.

说到这点，我们现在的文化和世界，简直被信息狂轰滥炸。

And to your point, our culture and our world right now, we are bombarded.

各种噪音、声音、信息、内容和背景接二连三地涌来。

It is rapid fire of noise and sound and information and content and context.

所以从某种角度说，你呈现这些美好故事的方式，简直就是一剂良药。

And so in a way, it's an antidote to the way you present these beautiful stories is medicine, I would say.

我记得你好像说过，我们怎么生活、注意什么，其实都是一种崇拜。

I think I remember you saying something along the lines of the way we live and what we notice is kind of worship.

留意这些细微之处，本身就是一种崇拜。

It's a kind of worship to notice those things.

这挺有意思的。

That's interesting.

我觉得是你这么说的。

I think you said that.

我把它归功于你，不过我想这可能出自你那封漂亮的通讯稿里。

I'm going to attribute it to you, but I think it might have been in one of your beautiful newsletters.

我们怎么生活、关注什么，其实是一种崇拜，或者说是对崇拜的回应。

The way we live and what we look at is a kind of worship or an acknowledgement of worship.

如果我说得不够准确，抱歉，但我觉得你的意思是：精心挑选生活中的这些瞬间，心怀感恩，这力量非常强大，能对抗世界上其他地方的种种混乱。

I'm sorry if I've got the exact words wrong, but I think that's your invitation, to say that curating these moments in our life and the gratitude we have for them is very, very powerful and an antidote to perhaps all the chaos that exists in the rest of the world.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得是这样。

I I think so.

说实话，这真的很难。

I I mean, I have to say it's it's it's really hard.

你懂的吧。

You know?

说实话，这周我跟一个人聊了聊，结果聊崩了。

I I, you know, I had I had a a situation this week where I had a a conversation with someone, and and the the the conversation went south.

我意识到，现在很多人活着活着就对生活特别愤怒。

And and and what I realized is that there are a lot of people who are going through life and and also very angry about life.

以前我可能想得太简单了，总觉得把大家聚在一起讲故事、建立社群是件挺自然的事。

And and and one of the things that I used to think about maybe in a naive sort of way was about this whole idea about gathering people together to share stories and to to build community.

但现在我越来越觉得，这事儿真不容易，世界上的各种矛盾太多了。

And I I I I'm starting to realize how difficult that is at the moment because of all the various tensions there are in the world.

你懂的吧。

You know?

你根本没法预知，下次聚会到底能不能聊得来。

You never really know whether or not it it's going to go very well.

我曾经有一段日子，把人与人之间的联结当成生活的重心。

And, you know, I had a time in my life where coming together was sort of the focus of of how I try to live.

我意识到，现在想让 people 真正安全地聚在一起、建立点什么，实在太难了。

And and and I and I realized that it's very hard to really have a to build anything where where people come together in a way that is safe.

我觉得我们更需要的，是让更多人来讲讲自己的故事。

And and I thought that perhaps what we need to have is more people just telling stories.

希望这样能慢慢让听众放下戒备，觉得也许安全了，也许可以敞开心扉、友善一点、好好听别人说话。

And, hopefully, that will bring sort of the listener's guard down about the fact that maybe it is safe or maybe it is okay to share or to be kind or to listen.

我知道，当我人生低谷的时候，我特别需要这种东西。

And because I know that when I was going through a tough time in life, I I needed that.

你懂的。

You know?

我特别需要别人身上那一点点人性的温度。

I needed I needed I needed that bit of humanity from somebody.

我知道，那时候我状态不好，对很多人来说，可能挺难相处的。

And and I know that when I was going through a difficult time, how that manifested to a lot of people, it might have been difficult.

可能看起来像个孤僻的人，或者脾气暴躁、情绪低落，啥都有。

It might have come across as, you know, isolated or or angry or sad or whatever.

有太多人正在经历着同样的感受了。

And and so there are so many people who are having these same feelings.

我知道现在很多人会上网想帮忙，但我自己真没能力去帮谁。

And and I and I and I know it's very easy for people to go online and try to help, and I don't think I'm in a position to do that for anyone.

但我能做的，就只是讲讲故事。

But I think the only thing I can do is just tell stories.

说到底，我觉得这大概就是我唯一能做、也唯一做得好的事了。

And I think at the end of the day, that's probably the only thing that I think that I'm I could do or that I'm good at.

有时候我盼着，通过这些故事，能有人感受到一点温暖，重新靠近人性本身。

And and sometimes I hope that by doing that, somebody is going to feel something that brings them closer to humanity.

是啊。

And yeah.

我知道，当我最需要的时候，多希望有人能给我这么一份温柔的抚慰。

Because I know that when I needed it, I I I would have really loved to have sort of a calming balm like that in my life.

对。

Yeah.

我不确定自己有没有说清楚，因为我老爱东拉西扯的。

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense because I'm such a rambler.

真是不好意思。

I'm so sorry.

哦，你说得完美极了。

Oh, it's absolutely perfect.

我脑子里一下子冒出好多问题。

No, I have so many questions pop into mind.

我觉得你说得对。

I think you're right.

我的意思是，这世界到处都是不安、焦虑和不满。

I mean, there's a lot of discomfort, unease, discontent the world.

问题是，就算我们都有这些感受，我们还能为彼此做点什么，当一剂镇定的良药？

And the question is, what is it, even if we feel all those things, what are the things that we can do for each other to be some sort of balm or antidote?

你知道吗，我觉得你说得没错。

You know, and I think you're right.

我觉得故事是人与人之间彼此理解、共享经历的地方。

I think stories are a place of sort of mutual understanding shared experience.

你说，故事到底厉害在哪儿？

What think do it is about stories?

你从小听着故事长大，它们早就成了你成长里不可或缺的一部分。

I mean, you've lived with stories, grown up with them as a vital component of your upbringing.

到底是什么让故事有这种抚慰人心的力量？

And what is it about stories that provide that calming balm?

是因为我们从中看到了彼此共有的脆弱，或者说共通的人性吗？

Is recognition it of our shared, call it, vulnerability or humanity?

为什么一个故事，有时候能让人感到安心，哪怕全世界都没给他这种感觉？

What is it about a story that can often, I don't know, maybe bring somebody a feeling of comfort, even when they're not feeling that from the rest of the world?

故事又是怎么把截然不同的人聚到一起的？

Or how is it that a story can bring diverse views together?

这到底是怎么做到的？

How is how is that?

挺有意思的。

It's interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

我真的觉得，关键在于故事是怎么讲的，现在所有的叙事都太精致了。

I I I really think that I think it really comes down to how the story is told because everything is so slick at the moment with storytelling.

对。

Mhmm.

就连视频这种形式，人们都写脚本，镜头拍得特别讲究，看起来成本很高之类的。

And I even have to look at the the the video medium, and people do scripts, and the camera is very it it looks expensive and so on.

我觉得故事最动人的地方，就是能和一个人安静地坐在一起，听他说话，感受到他的真诚。

I think the the thing about stories is I think the beautiful thing about stories is being able to sit with someone or to listen to someone, and you feel their honesty.

对。

Mhmm.

对。

Mhmm.

你能感受到那种坦诚。

You feel you feel the openness.

就像收到一个温暖的拥抱，大家能彼此分享心情。

It feels like a warm welcome, and you're able to share emotions with one another.

你懂的吧？

You know?

我觉得现在的人不太愿意正视情感这回事。

I I I don't think emotions is one of those things that people welcome a lot these days.

你懂的吧？

You know?

你一表达情绪，别人立马给你贴一堆标签。

You share any emotions, it's seen as there there are so many labels that could that is attached to you.

说得对。

Truth.

是啊。

Yeah.

但我觉得，现在这么多人过得这么累，原因之一就是情感的缺失。

But I think I I think one of the reasons why so many people are struggling these days is because there is a lack of emotion.

你看看世界局势，人们总在谈政治、谈热点，但你知道吗？

You look at the geopolitics of the world, and, you know, people may talk about certain things or that's going on on the political landscape.

我觉得人与人之间冲突不断，根源就在于情感的缺失，还有我们讲故事的方式。

I think one of the reasons why there are there are so many conflicts with one another is because of that lack of emotion and in how you tell stories.

我觉得讲故事最核心的，其实就是你能不能在故事里看到自己。

And and I think that is the I think that's the crux really of of storytelling is can I see myself in the narrative?

你能不能感受到故事里的情绪？

And do I feel the emotion of the narrative?

能这样彼此连接，才让一个故事从新闻素材，变成了真正的人性共鸣。

And being able to connect with one another in that way, I think, is what elevates a story from from news fodder to bits of humanity or shared humanity.

这真的很美。

And it's beautiful.

我就老想起自己笑到不行，得歇五分钟缓一缓。

I I just think about sort of laughing so hard that I I had to take five minutes out to Mhmm.

得好好调整一下自己。

To really compose myself.

这真美。

And that's beautiful.

你懂的。

You know?

在我文化里，笑可不是一个人的事。

And and for for me, in my culture, to laugh is is not an isolated event.

它还带着触感。

It's it's also tactile.

我们互相拍背，手搭在肩膀上，那种人与人之间的联结就这么自然发生了。

So, you know, we're slapping one another on the back and, you know, there's a hand on the shoulder, and and there's that sort of connective tissue connection that's happening.

我觉得，这正是故事的魅力所在。

And I think that's the beauty of of storytelling.

我总提醒自己要记得这些感受，可说实话，我好像还没真正做到。

And I don't think that I I I always try to remind myself of those feelings because I I don't think I'm there.

我跟你说话的时候，脑子里其实有一部分一直在不停地工作，筛选着我说的每一句话。

I even as I'm talking to you now, there is there's a great part of my brain that is working away and stif and and sort of filtering everything I say as I'm talking to you.

我真希望有一天能彻底放开，真正分享出最真实的自己，那个最深层的我。

And and I really would like to get to the place one day to be truly open and and to truly share my my my real self, my my deepest self.

我觉得，讲故事大概就是通往那里的路。

And I think storytelling is probably the way to that.

跟其他技能一样，这需要不断练习，练得多了，自然就越来越熟练。

And then like everything else, it's a muscle that you exercise, and, you will get better at it.

希望别人能透过故事，看到真实的你。

And, hopefully, people can see the real you.

我想，这正是让我们彼此相连的东西。

And that's, I think, what connects us all.

说得太棒了。

So beautifully said.

我觉得你这段话的核心是，故事里藏着的往往是那些深刻、共通、容易被认出的情感。

I think what I take as a headline from that really is that the thing about story, embedded in story, are often very deep emotions recognizable shared emotions.

所以，无论你和对方是不是在同一个房间里，一起触碰那种情感，本身就是一件特别亲密的事。

And so to get to that emotion together, whether you're in the same room, is in fact a truly intimate act.

这种亲密感会带来共同的体验，而我们知道，当我们彼此分享体验时，就会建立起一种联结，这种联结至关重要。

And that intimacy then creates a shared experience, which we know when we share experiences with one another, there's now this connection, and that connection is vital.

甚至可能关乎我们每个人的生存。

Maybe even to the survival of all of us.

所以，去感受这些情绪，本身就是一种亲密的行为。

And so feeling those emotions is intimate.

它带来联结，而联结，正如我们所知——

It provides connection and connection, as we know.

我62岁了，我和朋友们经常聊到健康，而健康里有一个特别关键的部分——

I'm 62, and my friends and I talk a lot about the fact that we talk about well-being and a critical component of well-being.

当然，我们要多散步、吃得健康、睡得好，这些都很重要。

Sure, it's, let's make sure we go for a walk, let's make sure we eat well, make sure we sleep well.

但同样不可或缺的，是那种归属感。

But it is also this essential component of community.

不管是一起散步，还是坐下来喝杯茶，不管做什么。

And whether we're walking together or come together and have a cup of tea, whatever it is.

我觉得这正像你说的，那些充满深层情感的共同经历，真的能让人重获生机。

And I think it's for exactly the reason you talked about is these shared experiences with deep emotions are life giving.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

我相信，真的相信。

I I I believe I believe yeah.

确实如此。

It it is.

而且你知道，这真的不容易。

And, you know, it's it's hard.

对吧？

You know?

我住过好几个国家，慢慢就意识到，每个文化都不一样，人们过日子的方式也明显不同。

And I think as I've lived in different countries, I recognize that cultures are different, and and the way that people move through life is is obviously different.

过去几年里，我从人身上学到了很多东西。

And I I've I've learned a lot of lessons in the last couple of years about people.

我特别喜欢观察别人，总是那个在房间里默默留意人与人怎么互动的人。

I'm a very I'm I'm I'm I love looking at people, and I love I'm always the guy in the room just very observant about about how people could have, like, connect with one another.

我是个十足的‘人群观察者’，我觉得现在人与人之间的连接方式正在发生巨大变化。

And a people watcher, and I I think that think I think that things are changing so much in terms of how we connect with one one another.

看到不同的人用各种方式把彼此连在一起，总让我特别开心。

And I it's it it always brings me so much joy to see different people using different mediums to to to connect people with each other.

所以我才会注意到你——说起来，我是去听了Dew讲座才找到你的。

And so I look you, at and that's how I found you, by the way, because I I I I went to the Dew lectures.

过去几年，我就像在织一张网，不断发现这些志同道合的人。

And and, obviously, over the last couple of years, it's been sort of like a web just finding all of these people

都是相似的人。

who are similar.

对。

Right.

所以不管是那些人，还是后来我找到了你，还有其他人。

And and so whether it's those guys or whether and then I found you, and I found others.

我当时就心想，哇。

And I said to myself, wow.

原来真有人在用这么独特的方式连接彼此。

There are people out there who are finding unique ways of of connecting with one another.

这太美了。

And and so it's beautiful.

看到这些，感受到你带来的影响，真的特别美好。

It's beautiful to see, and it's beautiful to experience the impact that you have.

因为我确实会花时间去读你所有的内容。

Because I I do spend time sort of reading everything.

你知道的吧？

You know?

我会去看评论，但我自己不会在评论里露面，就是想让大家能注意到我。

I I I'm I'm someone who goes into the comments, and I and I don't turn up in the comments so just so people could see me.

我之所以出现在评论里，是因为我真的对大家在说什么感兴趣。

I turn up in the comments because I'm genuinely interested in what's being said.

所以这种边走边讲故事的方式，真的很美。

And so this idea of walking and and storytelling, it's it's beautiful.

我太喜欢了。

I love it so much.

你能做成这样，真是太棒了。

And it's so great that you could do this.

太美好了。

It's wonderful.

对了，我们是不是超爱DO讲座？

Oh, and don't we love the DO lectures?

这简直就是个紧密相连的社群啊。

Talk about a connected community.

天哪，真是全球范围内志同道合的灵魂汇聚在一起啊。

My gosh, global connected community of like minded spirits.

是的。

Yeah.

说实话，这确实是我这辈子参与过最有影响力的一个群体。

Yeah, I would say that is one of the most impactful groups I've been involved with in my life, quite honestly.

没错。

Right.

彻底改变了我的人生。

Changed my life.

你能跟我们说说和威洛一起散步的事吗？

Will you tell us about walking with Willow?

当然可以。

Sure.

哦，威洛。

Oh, Willow.

哎呀。

Aw.

Willow，你知道吗，我结婚的时候，根本没打算要孩子。

Willow, you know, when I got married, kids wasn't on the cards for us.

所以Willow简直就是个奇迹宝宝。

And so Willow is a bit of a miracle child.

对啊。

Mhmm.

她真是个特别美好的灵魂。

And, you know, she is such a beautiful soul.

我的意思是，肯定所有当父母的都会这么说自己的孩子。

I mean, I'm I'm sure all parents say that about their kids.

但想到我自己的童年过得特别艰难，我就特别有意识地想做个什么样的爸爸。

But knowing the sort of childhood I had, which was incredibly difficult, I I been very intentional about what kind of dad I wanted to be.

所以我说，Willow真的让我当爸爸特别轻松，因为她实在太美好了。

And and and so Willow, I have to say, makes makes it so easy because she is such she is such a wondrous soul.

但我们经常一起散步，因为这是聊她学校里发生的事的好机会。

But we we go walking all the time because it's an opportunity for us to talk about her day at school.

而且这也是我们彼此分享故事的时光。

And and, also, it's it's an opportunity for us to share stories with one another.

最近她特别爱唱歌。

And recently, she's been into singing.

几天前她刚看了《魔法坏女巫》，之后就一直在哼里面的所有歌。

She actually went to see Wicked a couple of days ago, and literally been singing all the songs from Wicked.

我觉得能陪她散步，听她讲那些让她兴奋的事，真的特别美好。

But I I I think it's such a beautiful opportunity to to go for a walk with her and to hear about all the things that is making her brain excited.

最近她迷上的就是音乐。

And recently, it's been music.

我明白，这对我来说是个难得的机会，能听她唱歌——这让我特别有感触。因为很多年前，如果那时候我还在搞音乐，我们有了孩子，我毫不怀疑她一定会深受影响，说不定早就学会好几样乐器，还站上舞台跟我们一起唱呢。

And and so I I get it's an opportunity for me to hear her sing, which is really interesting for me because I think many years ago, in a different life, if we had a child at that time in my life when I was into music, I I don't doubt that she would have been so inspired and, you know, she probably would have been playing several instruments and singing on the stage with us.

但过去这几年，我确实没再这么做了。

And so I haven't been doing that in the last couple of years.