本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕,不包含中文音频;想边听边看,请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
你好。
Hello.
我是汤姆·弗罗斯先生,这些是我对插画的一些想法。
My name is mister Tom Froese, and these are my thoughts on illustration.
欢迎来到最后一集,第78集。
Welcome to the final episode, episode 78.
是的。
Yes.
没错。
That's right.
这是我播客的最后一集了。
This is my last episode of this podcast.
四年之后,我决定是时候结束这一章,开始新的篇章了。
After four years, I've decided that it's time to close this chapter and begin a new one.
所以,为了表示感谢,给这一切画上一个圆满的句号,我想给你们最后一集,分享我给插画师们的顶级建议,这些建议包括我在播客里反复提到的内容,也包含我经常在课堂上,尤其是一对一辅导中给出的建议。
So as a way of saying thank you and wrapping a bow on this whole thing, I wanted to give you one last episode with my top advice to illustrators, and this includes stuff that I've been circling around in this podcast, but also in the advice that I often find myself giving in my classes and especially in my one on one coaching.
那我就直接开始了。
And I'm I'm just gonna jump right into it.
这里大概有七个关键建议,最后我会用一个总结性的建议来收尾,这个建议概括了我对所有这些事情的看法。
So there are seven kinda key top tips here, and then I'm gonna wrap it up with a final tip that kind of summarizes how I think about all these things.
那我们就直接进入正题吧。
So let's just get into it.
我先简单概述一下,然后我们很快逐一深入。
I'll overview it, and then we'll jump into each one of these in short order.
这些建议包括:保持每日绘画练习,了解什么和谁激励你,分享你的作品,认真对待技巧,善用限制,拥有明确的创作流程,明白插画不是艺术,而是解决问题。
So the tips are have a daily drawing practice, know what and who inspires you, share your work, take technique seriously, lean into constraints, have a well defined creative process, know that illustration isn't art, it's problem solving.
至于我最后的建议,嗯,我会留到最后再说。
And then my final advice, well, I'll save that for the very end.
我的第一个建议是保持每日绘画练习。
So my first tip is to have a daily drawing practice.
定期绘画非常重要,因为对插画师来说,这就像你最基础的核心技能。
Drawing regularly is really important because as an illustrator, it's kind of like your your most foundational skill.
如果你有固定的练习习惯,你的绘画技巧就会一直在进步。
And if you have a regular practice of it, you're developing your drawing technique all the time.
你会慢慢发现自己擅长什么,不擅长什么。
You're learning what you're good at and not good at.
我觉得我们不一定非得成为顶尖的素描高手,不管你怎么称呼这个角色。
I don't think we have to be excellent draftsman, draftspeople, however you wanna put that.
我觉得我们不必在每个题材、每个方面、每种风格上都画得特别好。
I don't think we have to be excellent drawers at at every subject, in every way, in every style.
这件事没有绝对的对错。
There's no right or wrong way to do this.
如果你坚持定期画画,你就会慢慢发现你自己独特的画风是什么样的。
And if you have a regular drawing practice, you start to figure out just what does your unique way of drawing look at.
你擅长什么?
What are you good at?
你不擅长什么?
What are you not so good at?
就是这样,你才能发展出自己独特的绘画方式,这真的会成为你插画风格的起点。
And it's in this way that you develop your own unique way of drawing, which becomes really the starting point of your illustration style.
当然,每天在速写本上画画,留下记录,你就是在积累自己的素材库和想法目录,以后做专业工作或者个人项目时都可以回头参考。
Of course, drawing every day in a sketchbook, having that record, you're developing a repertoire and a catalog of your of your ideas that you can come back to perhaps for professional work later on or personal projects.
绘画中非常重要的一部分,与其说是关于插画本身,不如说是关于学会如何观察。
A very important part of drawing is less about illustration itself and more about just learning how to see.
当你从现实、从照片、从眼前的事物中画画时,你会看得更近,看得更深。
When you draw from reality, from a photo, from, you know, what's in front of you, you look at it closer and you look at it deeper.
所以,这里有个小建议,就是不要害怕花时间在你的绘画对象上。
So maybe a little side tip here to drawing is to not be afraid to spend time with your subject.
我觉得很多时候,我们想画得快、画得迅速、画得随意、画得有表现力,也许是从内心和情感出发,或者类似这样的方式。
I think a lot of the time we want to draw quickly and rapidly and loosely and expressively, maybe from the heart and from emotion or something like that.
但是,以缓慢而有意图的方式观察绘画,是一种冥想,它真的能帮助我们更深刻地欣赏周围的世界。
But drawing from observation in a slow and intentional way is a meditation, and it really helps us appreciate the world around us in a deeper way.
所以,如果你不擅长绘画,你在插画工作中会遇到困难,尤其是在你能画的东西的范围以及你如何表现它们方面。
So if you're not well versed in how you draw, you're going to struggle in your illustration work, especially in the range of things you can draw and how you illustrate them.
所以,对于刚入行的插画师来说,尤其是在你还在学习插画、还没有真正接过客户项目的时候,你最应该做的事情,最重要的事情,就是画画,并且要经常画,让自己熟悉怎么去画各种各样的东西,无论是人物、手、动物、物体还是场景,因为正是在这个过程中,你才能搞清楚所有这些事情。
And so anyone early on in their career as an illustrator, in your development, especially if you're still learning illustration and you haven't actually done any real client work yet, the biggest thing you should be doing, like, the most important thing you should be be doing is drawing and drawing regularly and just becoming acquainted with how you draw a a wide variety of subjects, whether that's people, hands, creatures, objects, scenes, because this is where you figure out all these things.
等到以后你接到客户的插画项目时,你肯定不想手忙脚乱地去琢磨怎么画他们要求的东西,比如松鼠、猫或者咖啡杯。
And later on, when you're on an illustration project for a client, you don't wanna be scrambling to figure out how you draw a certain kind of thing that they need you to draw, like squirrels or cats or coffee mugs.
如果你想了解我关于每日绘画练习这个主题的所有见解,我在Skillshare上有一门课,叫《绘画很重要》。
Now if you wanna learn everything that I have to say on this topic of having a daily drawing practice, I have a class called Drawing Is Important on Skillshare.
我还有一本同名的新书,也叫《绘画很重要》。
And I also have a new book by the same name, Drawing Is Important.
这本书由Rockport出版,我会在节目笔记里放上链接。
It's published by Rockport, and I'll leave a link to that in the show notes.
所以第二个建议是,要知道什么和谁激励着你。
So the second tip here is to know what and who inspires you.
与激励我们的人和事物保持联系非常重要。
Being in touch with what and who inspires us is very important.
我这么说是什么意思呢?
And what do I mean by that?
就是我们的偶像。
It's our heroes.
就是我们欣赏其作品的那些人。
It's the people whose work we admire.
这很重要,因为插画不是完全在孤立中产生的,也不是纯粹从我们内心冒出来的。
It's important because illustration isn't just something that happens completely in isolation or it originates purely from us.
好像完全不受其他艺术家影响似的。
Like, there's nothing influenced by other artists.
所有艺术都是一长串影响链条的一部分。
All art is part of a long line of influences.
从某种程度上说,可以把它看作一种传统。
In a way, can think of it as traditions.
无论你想创作什么样的艺术,很可能都有相应的传统,你要找到在这个传统中走在你前面的那些人。
Whatever kind of art you wanna make, there's probably a tradition of that art, and you wanna find the people who were before you within that tradition.
我们需要导师,而且并非所有导师都是活生生的人,认识我们并一路亲自指导我们。
We need mentors, And not all mentors are actual live people that know us and personally guide us along the way.
我觉得我们都想要那种有教练指导的体验。
You know, I think we all want that coach experience.
我们都希望有一个懂我们的私人导师,为我们加油打气,帮我们梳理想法、打磨技巧,等等。
We all want a personal mentor who understands us and is cheerleading us and helping us shape our ideas and sharpen our technique and all that.
但很可能,你的导师更多是非个人的。
But probably more than anything else, your mentors are going to be impersonal.
他们可能是远在天边的人,甚至早已离世。
They're going to be someone far away, perhaps long gone.
而恰恰是这些人,最能塑造我们的作品。
And it's still these people that can shape our work the most.
对我影响最大的人,肯定不是身边的人,而且大部分都已经去世了。
My biggest influences are definitely not local, and most of them are already dead.
关键在于,我们要以英雄和导师为榜样。
The important thing here is that we model ourselves on our heroes, on our mentors.
所以,明确自己受谁启发,就意味着要深入研究这些人。
So knowing who you are inspired specifically means being a student of these people.
你不仅要了解他们的作品,还要了解他们的故事。
You wanna know their stories as well as their art.
要知道他们的技巧是什么。
Know what their techniques are.
要知道他们的市场,他们所处的市场。
Know what their markets, the markets they work within.
比如,你最喜欢的插画师是出版行业里的绘本插画师吗?
Like, is your favorite illustrator a picture book illustrator working in the publishing industry?
他们是广告行业的商业艺术家吗?
Are they a commercial artist working in advertising?
他们具体生活在什么样的世界里?
What is the specific world they inhabit?
而你要成为那个世界的学生。
And you wanna be a student of that world.
因为如果他们在那个世界,而你热爱他们的作品,你也想进入那个世界。
Because if they're in that world and you love their work, you wanna be in that world as well.
你还想知道他们是怎么起步的。
You wanna know how they got started as well.
你想了解他们的起源故事。
You wanna understand what their origin story is.
比如,他们是怎么变得那么厉害的?
Like, how did they get that good?
他们上过艺术学校吗?
Did they go to art school?
还是自学成才的?
Were they self taught?
然后你开始了解自己可能需要怎么做……
And then you start to gain intelligence about how you yourself might need to...
比如,要达到那种卓越水平,你需要采取哪些步骤?
Like, what are those steps that you need to take to get to that level of greatness?
所以,再说一次,你要从不同角度去研究他们。
So, again, you you know, study them in different ways.
现在在网上,你可以找到很多访谈。
Today, online, you can find interviews.
根据他们的知名度和历史地位,你可以找到关于他们的书籍,还可以在YouTube上看他们的视频。
You can find books about them depending on how established and, like, historic they are, and you can watch their videos on YouTube.
很多勤奋又出色的插画师都在社交媒体上活跃,分享博客、YouTube视频,还有Substack之类的平台。
A lot of hardworking, amazing illustrators are out there on social media, sharing on blogs, sharing on YouTube, on Substack, wherever the things are.
所以你可以找到很多资源,深入了解那些激励你的人和作品。
And so there's so many resources you can find to dive deep into the people and the work that inspires you.
在我更偏重风格的课程里,比如风格课,我自然会深入讲灵感为什么重要、怎么用,以及如何有意识地利用灵感来发现你自己风格的线索。
In my more style oriented classes, like the Style Class, obviously, I go deeper into how and why inspiration is important and how to intentionally use your inspiration to discover clues about your own style.
我要讲一个特别的练习,很多做过这个练习的人都说特别有帮助。
And I'm talking about one particular exercise that a lot of people who do this tell me has been really helpful.
这个练习叫“灵感案例研究”,你可以在我的Skillshare风格课里找到这个练习或作业。
It's called an inspiration case study, and you'll find this exercise or assignment in my class, the style class on Skillshare.
下一个建议是分享你的作品。
So the next tip here is to share your work.
无论你身处哪个时代,把你的作品分享给更广泛的观众永远是时尚的,原因如下。
No matter the time period you find yourself in, sharing what you're making with a wider audience is always in fashion, and here's why.
艺术就是为了分享而存在的。
Art is made to be shared.
艺术不仅仅是自我表达,更是与他人的沟通。
Art is not just self expression, but communication to other people.
艺术,包括插画,只有在有观众的时候才算完整。
Art, including illustration, is fulfilled when it has an audience.
分享会让你在创作时以不同的方式思考你的作品。
Sharing makes you think about your work differently while you're making it.
所以当你在创作时,你会想着某个人。
So while you're making something, you're thinking about somebody.
可能只是一个人。
It could be just one person.
我经常发现自己会想到某位导师或偶像,想着他们会怎么看待我创作的方式。
Often, I find myself thinking about, like, one mentor or hero, and what would they think about the way I was making a thing.
当你这样做的时候,你就会用不同的方式来看待你的作品。
And when you're doing that, it just makes you think about your work differently.
实际上,你会变得以观众为中心。
In effect, you become audience centric.
分享让你觉得有责任继续创作,继续分享。
Sharing makes you feel accountable to show up and keep doing the thing and sharing again.
当你说“我要分享这个”或者你开始积累观众时,当然,你会开始觉得自己需要一次又一次地出现,做出下一个作品。
When you say, I'm gonna share this, or you start to build up an audience, of course, you begin to feel like you need to show up again and again to make the next thing.
这可能会带来压力和焦虑,但也许我们需要一点压力来推动我们继续创作。
That can cause stress and anxiety, but maybe we need a little bit of, you know, fire under our feet to keep that work coming.
当然,分享是获得作品反馈的方式,而反馈对于找到自己的声音、了解哪些作品有效、哪些能引起他人共鸣是必要的。
Now, of course, sharing is how you get feedback on your work, and feedback is necessary for finding our voice and knowing what works in our work and what resonates with others.
我们想知道自己真正喜欢创作的作品是否达到了预期的效果。
We wanna find what work we're doing that we enjoy making actually is landing in the way we hope.
我们可能会创作出更小众、更晦涩的作品,我们喜欢,但其他人不太明白那是什么。
We might create work that's more niche and obscure, and we like it, but other people don't quite know what it is.
所以分享以及人们参与的方式,比如点赞、评论,或者……
So sharing and the way people engage with it, perhaps like it or comment on it, or the...
你大概能开始感觉到人们在评论什么,又对什么视而不见。
You can kind of start to get a sense of what are people commenting on and what are people kind of ghosting on.
你开始了解你的哪些作品最能引起观众的共鸣,这对插画师来说很重要。
You start to get a sense of which of your work is the most resonant with your audience, and that's an important thing for Illustrators.
所以分享是建立朋友、粉丝和追随者的方式。
So sharing is how you build up friends, followers, and fans.
如果你想建立观众群,就必须先创造一种让观众形成的方式。
So if you wanna build up an audience, you have to start creating a way for an audience to form at all.
这就是为什么今天在社交媒体上分享,即使问题重重,
And that's why sharing on social media today, even if it's fraught with, you know, issues.
仍然是一个非常重要的实践,也是你建立观众群的方式。
It's still a very important practice, and it's how you're gonna kind of build up that audience.
那么分享意味着什么呢?
So what does sharing mean?
这意味着定期创作并有意地发布作品。
It means regularly making things and publishing them in an intentional way.
至少,这可以是像我之前说的那样,每天画一画。
And at very least, this could be a daily drawing practice, like I've already described.
就是每次花五到十分钟画点东西,然后发到Instagram、Substack或者其他地方。
So you're just drawing something five to ten minutes each time and sharing it on a place like Instagram or Substack or wherever things get shared.
也可以更复杂一点,比如做一个每日项目,不只是画画,而是创作更完整的东西。
It could be something a little bit more elaborate like a daily project, something where you're actually creating something more than just drawings.
比如创作一系列完整的插画。
You're creating, like, a series of full illustrations.
但对我来说,坚持每天画画的习惯一直都有收获,我从差不多二十年前就开始这么做了。
But for me, just that baseline of having a daily drawing practice has always yielded fruit for me since I've been doing it almost two decades ago.
分享就像把种子撒向风中,或者把种子扔出去。
So sharing is like blowing seeds into the wind or throwing seeds out there.
你不知道它们会落在哪里,会长成什么样,或者以后会不会回到你身边,但它们会的。
You don't know where they're gonna land or how they're gonna grow or come back to you later on, but they will.
如果你不把这些种子撒出去,那就什么都不会长出来。
And if you don't spread that seed, nothing will grow.
所以,画画、分享,或者无论你分享的是什么,都可以把它们看作种子,可能现在结果,也可能以后结果。
So drawing, sharing, or whatever it is you're sharing, think of it like seeds that may yield fruit now or later.
但如果你想...
But if you want...
这有点像投资。
It's kind of like investing.
你得先投入,以后才能收获果实。
You have to sort of invest now so that you'll yield the fruits later.
所以在我课上,我建议大家经常分享,通常就是跟同学分享你的项目,当然还有在社交媒体上分享。
So in my classes, I recommend sharing all the time, and this is usually in the context of just sharing your project with the class and, of course, on your social media.
但我也在《画画很重要》里给了具体的分享指导,在我的书和风格课里也讲了。
But I also give particular guidance around how to share in Drawing Is Important, and I do that also in my book and in the Style Class.
我教大家怎么有意识地规划分享,给自己定个简单的日程,这样更容易坚持。
I offer how to plan to share with intention and to give yourself a little bit of a a schedule to go by so that it's easier.
所以下一个建议是认真对待技巧。
So the next tip is to take technique seriously.
插画不仅仅是彩色的画。
Illustration isn't just colored drawings.
插画是技艺精湛的艺术构图。
Illustrations are skillful artistic compositions.
这就是我说的认真对待技巧的意思。
And so this is what I mean about taking technique seriously.
我们通常开始画插画的方式和画画差不多。
We usually start out illustrating in much the same way that we draw.
所以我们的画和插画看起来有点像一回事。
So our drawings and our illustrations kinda look like one in the same kind of thing.
但成熟的插画风格需要艺术知识,包括构图和色彩理论等基础艺术原则,以及把想法从草图变成成品所需的工具和技巧。
But well developed illustration styles require artistic know how, including the underlying artistic principles like composition and color theory, as well as the tools and techniques necessary to take ideas from sketch to finished.
所以这就像既要了解那些不直接可见的艺术原则,也要掌握那些动手的技术技能,用这些原则去创作出实实在在看得见的艺术作品。
So it's like knowing about the artistic principles that are not immediately visible, but also those kind of hands on technical skills where you're actually using those principles to create some kind of tangible visible art.
现在初学者往往就是画个画然后上色,这在Procreate上特别常见,他们其实没怎么考虑过具体的技法。
Now beginners tend to illustrate by drawing and adding color, and this is most typically seen on Procreate these days, without really thinking about a specific technique.
他们就是挑个喜欢的笔刷或者纹理,再用点颜色,但说到底,就是在iPad上画图而已。
It's like they use this brush or that texture that they like, and they use, you know, colors, but ultimately, they're just drawing pictures on their iPad.
这不只是Procreate的问题。
And this isn't just a procreate thing.
我觉得这是现代的一个通病,因为数字工具让这个错误特别容易犯。
I think it's just a modern problem because of digital tools that make this mistake very easy to make.
打开任何软件,默认设置就是让你直接开始画线。
It's the default setting in any program as you open it up and you start making marks.
但解决办法是回想一下以前人们只能用实体和机械媒介创作插画的时候。
But the solution is to think back to times when people had to create illustrations with strictly physical and mechanical media.
这不是说要怀旧或者追求老派风格。
And this isn't about being nostalgic or having an old fashioned style.
而是要承认,我们的数字工具其实自带了很多基于那些传统技法的功能。
It's it's acknowledging the fact that our digital tools actually come bundled with tools that are based on these older techniques.
我们越是能专注于在Procreate、Photoshop、Illustrator里选择特定的工具,并且用一些传统技法来指导这些工具的使用,我们的插画就会越有技巧,掌握的技法也会越多。
And the more we can focus, like, choose specific tools within Procreate, within Photoshop, within Illustrator, and focus them through the lens of some older technique, the more skilled our illustrations will be, the more technique we'll have.
所以有四种传统媒介类型:素描、绘画、拼贴和版画。
So there are four traditional media types, drawing, painting, collage, and printmaking.
每一种都能提供我所说的“媒介范式”。
And each of these can provide what I call a media paradigm.
所以一旦我们明确了自己具体在哪种媒介范式下工作……
So once we understand what media paradigm we're working in specifically...
比如,对我来说,我是在版画范式下工作的。
Like, for me, I work within a printmaking paradigm.
理解了这一点,我就能在创作特定插画时,对使用的工具和技法做出更有目的性、更专业的选择。
And by understanding that, I'm able to make more intentional, skillful decisions about the particular tools and techniques I'm using to create a given illustration.
举个例子,如果你看我的作品,我会用有限的颜色,并且以一种特定的方式叠加这些颜色,让一层叠在另一层上,你可以隐约看到两种颜色以透明的方式相互交融。
Just for example, if you look at my work, I use limited colors, and I layer those colors in a specific way where I multiply one layer over the other, and you can kinda see those two colors interacting in a transparent kind of way.
我为什么要这么做呢?
Why would I do this?
这不是随便做的决定。
It's not an arbitrary decision.
我不是因为喜欢它的样子才这么做的。
I'm not just doing it because I like how it looks.
我其实是在遵循一种版画制作的范式,用有限的油墨颜色,当你把一种颜色印在另一种上面时,就会得到一种更深的第三种颜色。
I'm actually following a paradigm of printmaking where you work in limited ink colors, and when you print one of those colors over the other, you get this darker third color.
这只是一个例子,说明我在插画创作时是如何思考物理媒介范式的。
And that's just one example of how I'm thinking about a physical media paradigm while I'm illustrating.
而且,
And just...
这决定了我的风格是什么样的,也让我有了明确的目的性。
This just guides what my style looks like, and it gives me an intentionality.
比如,当我在作品中使用那种特定的质感时,我是在把它和物理世界里真实存在的东西联系起来。
Like, when I use that particular quality in my work, I'm I'm linking it to something that exists in the physical realm.
我不会去做那些在物理世界里根本不可能实现的事情,这让我的作品更有整体感和一致性。
And I'm not doing things that are just kind of impossible in the physical world, and this makes my work more cohesive and consistent.
虽然技巧只是好插画的一半,另一半当然是创意。
While technique is only half of what makes a good illustration, the other half is, of course, the concept.
不管你的想法多好,没有技巧的话,最后很难把插画做成完整的成品。
No matter how good your ideas are, without techniques, you're gonna struggle to make your illustrations work in the end as finished art.
所以技巧一直是我教学的一部分,但在风格课、甜点插画和慢节奏插画里,我会给出更具体的指导。
So technique is always part of my teaching, but I give more specific guidance in the style class, sweet spots, and slow fi illustrations.
再说一次,这些都在Skillshare上。
And, again, these are all on Skillshare.
好的。
Alright.
下一个建议是善用限制。
The next tip is to lean into constraints.
有个关于创作自由的神话,说自由就是没有限制,但我相信只有在限制中,我们的创造力才能真正发光。
There's this myth of creative freedom that it's the absence of constraints, but I believe that it's only within constraints that our creativity can truly shine.
有时候我们觉得如果没有限制,我们会更有创意,但实际上,正是限制给了创意存在的意义。
Sometimes we feel like if we had no limits, we could be more creative, but the limits really create the the whole purpose for creativity.
创造力不是没有限制,而是我们如何在有限制的情况下,甚至因为限制而创作出作品。
Creativity is not the absence of limits, but how we create work in spite of or even because of them.
插画始终是一门应用艺术。
Illustration is always an applied art.
它必须是为了某个目的而创作的。
It has to be made to do something for a reason.
这和毫无理由地创作艺术正好相反。
Now this is the opposite of making art for no reason.
我在很多初学者的作品集里经常看到这种情况,他们展示的作品没有明确的目的感。
I see this a lot on beginner portfolios where the art they show has no clear sense of purpose.
我并不是说初学者放在作品集或Instagram上的作品毫无意义或完全没有理由,但对我来说,理由不够明显。
Now I'm not saying the work that beginners put up on their portfolios or on Instagram is meaningless or completely without reason, but the reason isn't immediately clear to me.
而插画的核心就是应用艺术这个概念。
And illustration is all about this idea of applied art.
想象一下,一个艺术总监或潜在客户浏览你的作品集,想找一个能完成特定任务的插画师。
Think about an art director, some potential client going to your portfolio and looking for an illustrator who can do a particular thing.
他们不只是看你的风格,或者你的作品有多古怪、多有创意。
They're not just looking for your style or how zany or creative your work is.
他们要看的是,你能不能创作出符合他们想法和用途的某种图像或插画,不管是用于广告、绘本,还是某种纺织品上的图案。
They're looking for proof that you can create a certain kind of image or illustration that matches their vision and use case, whether that's for an advertisement or for a picture book or for a pattern of some kind that goes on textiles.
任何插画项目的基础限制都始于简报,简报就是作品的任务或目的。
The foundational constraints of any illustration project start in the brief, which is the mandate or purpose for the work itself.
这正是客户最初雇佣我们的原因,也是他们需要我们做的事情。
This is why the client hires us in the first place and what they need us to do.
这让我们明确了要创作什么以及为什么创作。
And this gives us a focus in what to make and why.
所以,一旦我们理解了简报,明白了要创作什么以及为什么,限制条件就能帮助我们弄清楚如何创作。
So once we understand our brief, what we're making and why, constraints help us know how to make our work.
这实际上关乎风格、技法,以及我在上一条建议中提到的那些东西。
This really is about having a style and having techniques and all those those things that I was just talking about in the previous tip.
基本上,当我们有了风格和媒介范式,我们就有了一套专注的、擅长的技法,并且总是使用它们,而不用其他的,这就限制了我们可以做的无限可能性。
Basically, when we have a style and we have a media paradigm, we have a a certain focused set of techniques that we're good at and we always use, and we don't use other ones, this acts as a limiter for all the infinite possibilities of what we could do.
我们常常在创作中卡住,就是因为一直在纠结怎么做。
That's often where we get paralyzed and stuck in our work is trying to decide the how side of things.
所以如果我们能早点决定创作方式,那么针对眼前这个具体项目的插图该怎么画,就会容易很多。
So if we can make a decision earlier on about how we make work, then the decisions of how we make a particular illustration for a particular job that's happening right now become a lot easier.
所谓限制,就是我们的创作手法要有一个明确的范围。
Constraints means having a narrow range of moves in our repertoire.
我们用色的方式是有讲究的。
We use color in a certain way.
我们坚持在一种媒介体系内创作。
We stick within a media paradigm.
我们使用特定的工具、画笔、纹理或图层技巧。
We use certain tools, brushes, textures, or layering techniques.
我们的风格化方式也是固定的。
We stylize in a certain way.
我们的限制还包括,我们表达想法时是偏向写实还是抽象。
Our constraints also come down to, like, how literally or nonliterally we represent our ideas.
我们有多写实,或者多抽象?
How realistic are we or how abstract are we?
我们是更偏向摄影感,还是更偏向图形感?
Are we more photographic or more graphic?
约束是做出高度有目的性、精心打磨甚至原创作品的关键,因为它迫使我们在用更少做更多时发挥创意。
Constraints are the key to making highly purposeful, well crafted, even original work because it forces us to be creative in how we use less to do more.
而我们每个人做到这一点的方式都会非常独特。
And the way each of us are going to do that will be very unique.
现在,我的大多数课程都会以某种方式强调约束。
Now most of my classes emphasize constraints in some way or another.
就在这个播客上,去看看第62集,如何让插画保持一致性?
Just on this podcast, check out episode 62, how do you make an illustration cohesive?
你还可以翻到目录更早的第13集,为什么约束让你更有创造力。
And you can go way back in the catalog to episode 13, why constraints make you more creative.
关于约束的一些具体想法,在这个播客上,我觉得在约束方面最充实的课程是《插画师的构图》。
For some specific thoughts on constraints here on the podcast, I'd say my beefiest class in terms of constraints would be composition for Illustrators.
所以如果你想深入学习和实践如何运用限制,特别是在构图方面,我推荐《插画师构图》这门课。
So if you wanna dive deep and actually practice working with constraints, especially in terms of composition, I recommend composition for illustrators.
接下来的建议是,要有一个明确的创作流程。
So the next tip here is to have a well defined creative process.
插画师需要随时保持创意,这不能只靠灵感碰巧在合适的时候出现。
Illustrators need to be creative on demand, and that requires more than hoping for inspiration to strike at the right time.
这需要方法。
It needs a method.
需要流程。
It needs a process.
那什么是流程呢?
So what is a process?
流程就是你创作插画时遵循的一系列明确步骤。
Your process is a well defined series of steps you take to create your illustrations.
你总是以同样的方式开始,每一步都有类似的活动组合,专注于整体问题的某一方面。
You always start in the same way, and each step along the way has a similar grouping of activities where you're focused on one aspect of the overall problem.
我觉得我说得太抽象了。
So I feel like I'm speaking so abstractly.
那咱们还是说点实际的吧。
So let's let's, like, bring this down to brass tacks here.
对于插画师来说,基本上每个插画师在完成一幅作品时都会遵循或应该遵循这些步骤。
For illustrators, these are the steps, basically, that every illustrator follows or should follow on the way to making a finished piece of illustration.
从简报开始,然后进入研究阶段,接着画一些草图,最后完成一幅插画,有时候我们称之为成品图。
Starts with the brief, and then you move into research, and then you do some sketches, and then you end up with a finished illustration or sometimes what we call finished art.
那我们快速过一下这些步骤是什么。
So let's just quickly go over what these are.
简报就是明确你的任务是什么。
So the brief is where you define what your job is.
在这里设定我们之前讨论过的基础约束条件。
It's where you set those foundational constraints we've already talked about.
在研究阶段,你真的应该花时间了解你的任务和相关细节,然后再开始尝试用绘画来解决问题。
Now in terms of research, you really should spend time in research understanding your job and pertinent details about it before you start trying to solve the problem with drawings.
所以这包括阅读客户提供的所有材料,以及做一些辅助性的研究。
So this would be a mix of reading whatever materials the client has supplied, doing some auxiliary auxiliary research.
你要收集参考图片,并且进行我所说的观察模式绘画。
You're gathering reference images and doing what I call o mode or observation mode drawing.
你就是在画这些东西,尽可能多地获取关于你主题的信息。
So you're just drawing from these things to download as much information about your subject as possible.
你可能还会在这里做头脑风暴,画思维导图之类的。
You're probably also doing brainstorms here, star charts, that kind of thing.
然后一旦你觉得对主题、对工作有了足够的理解,不管是什么,你就进入草图阶段,开始构思你的想法。
And then once you feel like you have sufficient understanding of your subject, of your job, whatever it is, then you move into sketches where you start working out your ideas.
首先是数量,你画的是松散、非常概念性的草图。
First in quantity, so you're making loose, really notional sketches.
然后当你一遍又一遍地这样做,你的想法就会……
And then as you keep doing this over and over, your ideas kind of...
你可以在纸上看到它们,得到视觉反馈,然后开始有具体的想法。
You can see them on the page, you get that visual feedback, and you start getting specific ideas.
然后一旦你有了一些具体的想法,你就可以选其中一个,把它做成一张完整的插画。
And then once you have a a handful of specific ideas, you can choose one of them to create into a finished illustration.
所以,你知道,这里还是在说草图。
So you you know, still talking about sketches here.
你越是深入这个草图的过程,最终得到的想法版本就越精细。
You're ultimately ending up with more refined versions of your ideas the deeper you go into this sketching process.
最终,你要非常清楚你的想法是什么,以及它如何以某种方式解决简报中的问题,如何与你的风格相关联。
And ultimately, you want to have a very clear idea of what your idea is and how that solves the problem at hand in the brief in whatever way, how it relates to your style.
这样,你就知道你能把它执行出来,或者变成一张完整的插画。
And that way, you know that you'll be able to execute that or turn that into a finished illustration.
那当然就是下一步了,完成稿。
And that's, of course, the next step here, finished art.
一旦你有了一个经过精细打磨的好想法,你就可以把它发展成一张完整的插画。
Once you end up with one good idea as a refined sketch, then you can build it up into a finished illustration.
而这里,就是我之前提到的技巧派上用场的地方。
And this is where what I was talking about technique earlier comes into play.
关于插画创作的过程,我有很多想说的,我在Skillshare上有一门完整的课程,叫做《插画的六个阶段》。
Now I have a lot to say on the illustration process, and I have an entire class on Skillshare called The Six Stages of Illustration.
所以如果你想深入了解这些步骤是什么,甚至如何用这些步骤来指导你的互动,向客户展示什么,以及如何处理反馈等等,这些都在我的课程《插画的六个阶段》里。
So if you wanna kinda dive deep into what those steps are and even how to kind of use those steps as a way to guide your interactions and what you showed your client and how do you manage feedback and stuff like that, that's all in my class, The Six Stages of Illustration.
好的。
Okay.
我最后一条建议是,插画不是艺术。
My last tip here is illustration is not art.
它是解决问题。
It's problem solving.
我的意思是,我……
Here's what I mean, and I...
我先说说我最讨厌的事情是什么。
I'll start by just saying what a pet peeve of mine is.
就是人们把插画叫做画画。
It's when people call illustration drawing.
插画不是画画。
Illustration is not drawing.
画画可能是你创作插画的方式,但插画远不止于此。
Drawing could be the way you illustrate, but illustration's more than it.
我觉得插画更像设计。
I would say illustration is more like design.
设计是一套艺术技能,但总是应用于某种问题。
Design is an artistic set of skills, but always applied to a problem of some kind.
而且总有一个期望的结果。
And there's some kind of desired outcome.
平面设计通常关注更大的框架或系统。
Graphic design is often concerned with these larger frameworks or systems.
比如杂志或网站,包含许多不同类型的元素,包括排版、摄影和插画。
For example, a magazine or a website, which includes many different types of elements, including typography, photography, and illustration.
而我们作为插画师,只专注于插画本身。
Now we as illustrators focus just on the illustrations themselves.
插画其实是一种更聚焦、更专业的设计。
Illustrations are just a more focused, specialized kind of design.
所以,虽然我们创作的艺术会出现在杂志里,但这并不意味着我们只是艺术家。
So just because we're making art that goes in a magazine, it doesn't mean that we're just artists.
我们依然在解决问题。
We're still solving problems.
这就是为什么插画属于设计。
That's why illustration is design.
那这为什么重要呢?
So why does this matter?
这很重要,因为把插画看作一种设计或问题解决的方式,会让你的思路从“我怎样才能为这个项目创作出伟大的艺术”这种非常抽象、有时甚至不可能实现的目标,转变为“问题是什么,我该怎么解决它,或者我有什么独特的能力去解决它”。
It matters because thinking about illustration as a type of design or problem solving shifts your thinking away from how can I make great art for this project, which is a very abstract and sometimes impossible goal to have, to what is the problem and how am I going to solve it, or how am I uniquely equipped to solve it?
所以,它把焦点从“希望自己的艺术是好的”这种抽象期待上移开,因为那其实没什么意义。
So it shifts the focus away from something like an abstract hope that your art is good because that doesn't mean a lot.
这样更现实。
It's more realistic.
它会让你更客观地思考,比如,你要把哪些技能结合起来解决这个问题?
It makes you think more objectively about, like, what skills are you gonna bring together to solve this problem?
而且它减轻了每个项目都要成为优秀作品集或类似东西的压力,并提供了更客观的方式来评估你的工作。
And it takes the pressure off any one project to be some great portfolio piece or something like that, and it puts a more objective way to evaluate your work.
这个作品能达到预期效果吗?
Does this work as intended?
它满足要求了吗?
Does it satisfy the brief?
当然,插画也有艺术性的一面,这是无法量化或按清单检查的,而且很多这种能力真的很难教。
There is, of course, an artistic side of illustration that can't be quantified or checked off a list, and a lot of this just can't be taught really easily.
比如,我不能像告诉你这些更实际、更具体的事情那样,轻易地给你关于如何更有艺术感的建议。
Like, I can't give you tips on how to be more artistic as easily as I can tell you these more brass tacks, tangible things.
你怎么学习变得更有艺术感?
How do you learn how to be more artistic?
你怎么学习超越那种解决问题、设计类的东西?
How do you learn how to go beyond the sort of problem solving, design y stuff?
这是需要通过大量练习和经验才能慢慢体会的东西。
This is something that you get a feeling for with lots of practice and experience.
所谓经验,我的意思是,把你的作品或技能应用到现实问题或贴近现实的问题上,即使没有人给你那些真实的问题或工作机会。
And by experience, I mean trying to apply your work or your skills to real world problems or realistic problems if no one's giving you those real problems or those jobs.
所以关键在于,在真实项目中检验你的想法和技能,无论它们是什么。
So it's about testing out your ideas, your skills, whatever they are in actual projects.
在我所有的课程中,我都力求给学生一个清晰的任务简报。
Now in all my classes, I aim to give students a clear brief.
我会设定一个明确的问题让他们去解决,这样我就能教插画,而不必教别人我是怎么画插画的。
I try to set up a clear problem that they need to solve, and this is how I'm able to teach illustration without teaching people how I illustrate.
有些情况下,我确实得教别人我是怎么画插画的。
In some cases, I have to teach how I illustrate.
这是教学的一部分,今天稍后我也会谈到这一点。
It's just part of it, and I do talk about that a little later on today.
但我尽量教那些不依赖特定风格或技巧的课程。
But I try to teach classes that are style and technique agnostic.
我想教插画师如何思考插画这件事,让他们理解自己是怎么画画的,怎么解决问题的,而不仅仅是工具和技巧。
I wanna teach illustrators how to think about illustrating to understand how they illustrate, how they solve problems more than just the tools and techniques.
所以我更注重解决问题的思路和方法,这样不管你是谁,也不管你喜欢怎么画画,你都能从我这里学到东西。
So I tend to focus on the problem solving and methodology so that no matter who you are or how you like illustrating, you can learn something from me.
这就引出了我最后一条建议。
And that brings us to my final advice.
这条建议跟我们现在都有点焦虑的事情有关,显然就是人工智能。
And this touches on something that I think we're all feeling a little bit squirrelly about right now, and obviously that's AI.
那我们来说说,我刚才讲的这些东西是怎么汇聚成这条最终建议的,而我给你的这条最终建议又是什么呢?
So let's let's talk about how all these things that I'm talking about kind of culminate in this final advice, and what is this final advice I'm giving you.
所以在今天的最后一集里,我想给你总结一下我的最重要的几条建议。
So in today's final episode, I wanted to give you a roundup of my top tips.
这些想法你在过去四年里听我讲过,但它们也是贯穿我所有教学和辅导的主题。
These are ideas you've heard from me here over the past four years, but also these are themes that run through all my teaching and coaching.
每个老师都会围绕几个核心原则来展开,这些原则构成了他们的核心观点,或者说他们的执念吧。
Every teacher will tend to circle around a few set of principles that kind of form their thesis or their hobby horse, if you will.
所以对我来说,这些就是我的核心原则。
And so that's what these are for me.
总的来说,我强调的是工作中需要你思考自己在做什么的那部分。
I think overall, I stress the part of the work that requires you to think about what you're doing.
花时间研究问题,清楚自己在特定任务中该做什么,理解你能为工作带来什么独特的价值——这大概也是当初雇你的原因。
Spending time with a problem, knowing what you're supposed to be doing for the given job, understanding what you uniquely bring to the work, which is presumably why you've been hired in the first place.
这些就是我希望你了解自己的地方。
These are what I want you to know about yourself.
所以我觉得很多这些建议,以及我在教学和辅导中反复强调的东西,都是关于不要害怕在项目初期投入大量的心血和汗水,花时间去理解它。
So I think a lot of these tips and a lot of the things that I always return to in my teaching and coaching is about not being afraid to put in a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into a project upfront and spending time to understand it.
这真的很有价值,而且会在你之后创作艺术时得到回报。
This is really valuable, and it pays off in how you actually make your art later on.
关键是要找到一个真正属于你自己的项目切入点。
It's about finding an angle into a project that's truly unique to you.
我说这些的时候,听起来常常像是把自己太当回事,或者把插画看得太严肃,有时候确实是这样。
Now I say all these things often sounding like I'm taking myself too seriously or illustration super seriously, and sometimes I do.
但插画并不需要总是这么严肃认真,很多时候它其实应该很有趣、很轻松。
But illustration doesn't need to be this super serious undertaking, and it often actually needs to be quite fun and unserious.
但要达到那种状态,带着轻松和风格去承载一个想法,其实比表面看起来要费力得多。
But to get there, to carry an idea with lightness and style takes far more effort than it appears on the surface.
换个角度看,作为艺术家或插画师,我们的工作就是辛苦地让作品看起来轻松,这样别人看的时候才会享受。
You know, one way of looking at it is as artists or illustrators, our job is to do the hard work of making our work look easy so that when other people view it, they enjoy it.
就是那个……
Just that that...
他们不用去琢磨。
They don't have to think about it.
作品不是用来让人困惑的。
It's not there to perplex them.
而是用来给人带来愉悦的。
It's there to give them pleasure.
而这确实需要有人付出很多努力,通常这个责任就落在插画师身上。
And that does take a lot of work for somebody, and it's usually the illustrator that has to do that.
上一集我提到过如何深入你的作品,而这件事是我希望每个插画师都能多做的,而且它似乎是我所有建议中最基础的一条。
I alluded to this in the last episode about how to go deeper in your work, and this is the one thing I want to see every illustrator do more, and it seems to be at the very bottom of all other advice that I tend to give.
而今天,我们比以往任何时候都更能看到这件事的重要性。
And today, we're seeing why this is important more than ever.
现在AI已经来了,真的威胁到我们的生计和我们对于人类创造力的理解,我们真的必须知道我们每个人自己——比如你、我,还有任何在听这个节目的人——能为你的艺术带来什么,我能为我的艺术带来什么。
Now that AI is here and really threatening our livelihood and our understanding of human creativity, we really have to know what we ourselves individually, like what you, what I, what anyone else listening to this brings to your art, what I bring to my art.
我们需要知道我们在这里做什么,以及为什么这很重要。
We need to know what it is we're doing here and why that's important.
所以,这就是我对人类创造力问题最具体的看法。
So here's how I see the issue of human creativity in the most concrete sense.
我们必须花时间去理解我们周围的世界。
We have to spend time understanding the world around us.
这就是艺术家所做的。
That's what artists do.
我们通过研究它来做到这一点。
We do this by studying it.
作为艺术家,我们通过画画来学习。
As artists, we study by drawing.
作为思考者,我们通过写作和反思来学习。
As thinkers, we study by writing and reflecting.
作为插画师,我们创作新作品的过程和技巧,是先理解,再解决问题,最后精心打磨。
As illustrators, we create new works through a process and technique of first understanding and then problem solving, and then finally crafting.
我们手中的工具是我们身体和思想的延伸。
The tools in our hands are extensions of our bodies and our minds.
用手去解决问题、去实践,这个过程本身就是我们思考的方式。
The very act of working out, of solving problems with our hands, is how we think.
最终,我们做出来的作品是有特定意图或用途的。
In the end, the work that we do is a product that has a particular intention or use in mind.
但在这个过程中,运用我们的思想、身体和工具,对艺术家来说本身就是一种丰富的体验。
But along the way, the process of using our minds, bodies, and tools is in itself an enriching experience for the artist.
它改变了我们。
It changes us.
它改变了我们看待世界的方式。
It changes how we see the world.
插画之所以让人享受,不仅仅是因为我们能创作出作品,更在于它如何改变我们。
Illustration is enjoyable not just because of the things we get to make, but because of how it changes us.
这是一种体验的过程,是生活本身,而这是机器无法拥有的,是一种个人的体验。
It is the act of experience, of living itself, and this is something no machine can have, is a personal experience.
所以现在我觉得这最后一条建议,怎么说呢,可能有点励志。
So now I understand that this final tip is very, I don't know, maybe motivational.
它更多是精神层面的,而不是那种实际可操作的建议,它肯定不能帮你应对当前的经济困境,也不能给你职业上的稳定。
It's more motivational than brass tacks, like something you can actually go and do something with, and it certainly won't help you weather the current economic storm or give you career stability.
这些事本来就没有保证,我也不会试图向你保证任何类似的东西。
These things are just not guaranteed, and I'm not gonna try and guarantee you anything of the sort.
但如果我们还有任何生存的希望,那就在于我们明白:思考和创作,成为艺术家和创作艺术,其实是一回事。
But if we have any hope of surviving at all, it's in our understanding that to think and to work, to be an artist and to make the art is all the same thing.
没有分离。
There's no separation.
所以,任何承诺能让你免于辛苦工作和深度思考的工具或技术,都会让你离艺术家越来越远。
So any tool or technology that promises to remove the necessity of hard work and deep reflection is a tool that makes you less of an artist.
你可能会因此看低我,但我把话都摊开说了,你也知道我以前就这么干过。
You might think less of me for this, and I'm I'm just putting all my cards out on the table, and you know that I've done this before.
我也因此挨过批评,但事实就是如此。
And I've gotten flack for it, but it is what it is.
我试过很多AI工具,倒不是用来生成图像,我从来不太喜欢也不怎么在意AI艺术,但我经常用它来写作和规划任务。
I've experimented a lot with AI tools, not so much for making images, like I've never really enjoyed or cared much for making AI art, but I've used it a lot for writing and for planning tasks.
最后我发现,它顶多能帮我把自己的想法理清楚,但要说让我找到自己的声音,或者让我作为创作者更有自信,那它一点用都没有。
And in the end, I found that, you know, it's helpful for reflecting my own ideas back to me, but otherwise, it's useless in giving me my own voice or making me confident as a creative person.
所以我不是来反对AI的,我是来支持人类的。
So I'm not here giving an anti AI message, but a pro human one.
你比你的工具更重要。
You are more than your tools.
你比那些潮流更重要。
You are more than the trends.
展开剩余字幕(还有 33 条)
你甚至比你到目前为止创作出的任何风格或作品都更重要。
You are even more than any style or work that you've created up to this point.
你就是那个秘密配方。
You are the secret sauce.
所以现在,AI基本上是在偷每个人的秘密配方,然后免费提供给任何有浏览器的人一个劣质版本。
So right now, AI is basically stealing everybody's secret recipe and offering a bastardized version of it for free to anyone with a browser.
虽然今天这种情况达到了前所未有的程度,但想法和风格的剽窃其实一直都在发生。
While it's happening at an unprecedented level today, idea and style theft has been happening forever.
作为老师,我不得不把我的看家本领教给别人,帮助他们学习插画。
As a teacher, I've had to literally give away my trade secrets to help others learn illustration.
多年来,我一直在努力让教学不局限于特定的风格和技巧,就像我今天早些时候说的,但这就是教学的一部分,我必须把我的秘密分享出去。
Over the years, I've tried to make it more style and technique agnostic, as I've already said earlier today, but this is just part of teaching, is I have to give my secrets away.
这在我早期的课程中尤其明显,比如墨线插画和奇特人体,我真的是手把手教大家怎么像我一样画画。
This especially happened with my earlier classes like inky illustrations and odd bodies, where I literally taught how to illustrate like I do.
但最终,我做出这个选择,因为这是有意义地教学的唯一方式。
But in the end, I made this choice because it was the only way to teach in a meaningful way.
即使看到别人做出有点像我的作品,确实会打击我的创作信心和身份认同感,但我一直相信,我远不止表面上看到的这些东西。
And even though seeing others make work that looks like mine in some way kinda messes with my creative confidence and my sense of identity, I've always believed that I'm more than any of these things that you see on the surface.
我的工作不是创造并守护一个秘密的创作配方。
My job is not to create and then safeguard a secret creative recipe.
你的工作也不是守护你自己的秘密配方或秘密酱料。
Your job is not to safeguard your own secret recipes or your own secret sauces.
你是一个秘密酱料工厂。
You are a secret sauce factory.
你有创造力,可以不断做出新的酱料。
You have the creativity to keep making new sauces.
你不仅仅是在做酱料。
You are not just making the sauces.
你就是酱料本身。
You are the sauce.
从来就没有哪个时代,艺术家能免于被模仿和抄袭。
There has never been a time when artists were safe from being imitated and ripped off.
如果你是个有才华的艺术家,作品又不错,而且都展示给别人看了,那你肯定会被模仿。
If you're a talented artist with a body of good work that's out there for others to see, you're going to be imitated.
虽然现在情况大不一样了,强大的AI以前所未有的规模在挖掘我们,但根本问题还是一样的。
Even though it's way different now with powerful AI mining us at a scale that we've never seen before, The basic issue is the same.
创造力之所以重要,不仅仅是因为创作出了什么作品,更在于谁在创作,以及你作为艺术家带来的独特经历和视角。
Creativity matters not just because of what gets made, but in who makes it, and the unique experience and perspective, the artist, that you bring to it.
同样重要的是,创作的过程——你投入的时间和精力——是如何改变你的。
And just as important is how the act of creation, that time and work that you pour into making your art, changes you.
我是汤姆·弗罗斯先生,以上就是我对插画的一些想法。
My name is mister Tom Froese, and those were my thoughts on Illustration.
感谢你的收听。
Thank you for listening.
感谢你所有的善意想法、评论,以及和朋友的分享。
Thank you for all your kind thoughts, comments, and for sharing with your friends.
特别感谢那些在Patreon上支持本播客的朋友们。
Thanks especially to those who have supported this podcast on Patreon.
想跟着我一起开启下一段冒险的话,请到Substack上关注我,地址是mister tomfroese.substack.com。
To follow me in my next adventure, please follow me on Substack, mister tomfroese.substack.com.
这是加入我邮件列表最方便的方式,这样不管我以后把大本营搬到哪里,都能和你保持联系。
This is just the most convenient way of getting on my email list so that I can keep in touch with you wherever I end up bringing my home base in the future.
你还可以在tomfroese.com/teaching找到我所有的课程。
You can also find all my classes at tomfroese.com/teaching.
如果你希望在插画事业上得到更个性化的指导,比如作品集点评或者某个具体项目的反馈,我也提供一对一的辅导。
I also provide one on one coaching if you wanna get more personal guidance in your illustration career, perhaps a portfolio review or feedback on a specific project.
想了解更多,请访问tomfroese.com/coaching。
Visit tomfroese.com/coaching to learn more.
这个播客是由我,真人汤姆·弗罗斯,撰写并主持的。
This podcast was written and performed by me, the human, Tom Froese.
音乐和提示音由马克·艾伦·福克创作。
Music and cues were written by Mark Allen Falk.
你可以在linktree/semiathletic找到他的音乐和其他优秀作品。
You can find his music and other good work at linktree/semiathletic.
保重,希望很快能见到你。
Take care, and hopefully, I'll see you soon.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕,帮助你打破语言障碍,轻松听懂全球优质播客。