阿隆索的皇马困境与英超新财务规则

我不知道。

I don't know.

我不知道。

I don't know.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

是啊。

Yeah.

这是部不错的电影。

It's a decent film.

这是部不错的电影。

It's a decent film.

显然，唯一让我真正恼火的是看着演员踢球时完全不像职业足球运动员的样子。

Obviously, the only thing that really irks me is watching an actor kick a ball and not look like a professional footballer when they do so.

没错。

Yeah.

我也觉得这个导演安排有问题——爱尔兰队参加世界杯时，罗伊·基恩怎么可能在自家花园里踢球玩？

I also think that piece of direction would Roy Keane have been kicking a ball around his own garden while Ireland were playing in the World Cup?

我不这么认为。

I don't think so.

不可能。

No.

不可能。

No.

他应该是在遛狗放松。

He'd be walk he'd like walking his dogs just chilling.

他当时应该是在散步

He'd have been walking

遛狗。

his dog.

不过当时他确实在遛狗，那段著名的现场画面就是记者找到他时拍到的。

He was walking his dog, though, was that famous sort of footage at the time where the reporters found him.

他当时穿着一件Diodora连帽衫。

He was wearing a Diodora hoodie.

我得说他们那段影像重现得确实很好，但当我看到演员踢球时，真的会破坏那种真实感。

They recreated that footage really well, I will say, but I can't get it ruins the illusion for me when you see an actor kick a ball Right.

而且看起来，不像真人踢球的样子。

And it's, like, not like a real person.

这确实很难做到，不是吗？

It's really hard, isn't it?

在我看来，即便是最好的足球电影《该死的联队》，你偶尔还是会看出破绽。

I would say even in in my opinion, the best football film, which is the Damned United, you're still you're still watching you know, occasionally, do it.

有个场景是布莱恩·克拉夫和彼得·泰勒正对着镜头。

There there's that scene where Brian Clough and Peter Taylor are facing the camera.

他们身后有个小球门。

There's a little goal behind them.

他们在桑德兰还是什么地方进行训练。

They're doing training at Sunderland or wherever the hell they are.

要知道，布莱恩·克拉夫用胸部停球，然后一记倒勾射门进球。

And, you know, Brian Clough, he chests it and then does a does a does a volley backwards into the goal.

看起来非常逼真，但那种逼真感就像是一个退役转型为教练的老将，在向年轻球员示范动作

It looks really legit, but it looks legit as like a manager who's aged out of playing who's trying to show the the young players, there's how you

该怎么做。

do it.

他叫什么名字？希恩？

What's his name Sheen?

迈克尔·希恩。

Michael Sheen.

我以为他是马丁·希恩。

Believe he was Martin Sheen.

前迈克尔

Former Michael

·希恩。

Sheen.

迈克尔·辛。

Michael Sheen.

迈克尔·辛。

Michael Sheen.

是迈克尔·辛。

It's Michael Sheen.

我想他是和迈克尔·珊农一起的。

Is that I think he's with Michael Shannon.

马丁·辛，就是《白宫风云》里演总统那位，他随手披上外套

Martin Sheen, the guy who's the president in work, and he just puts his coat on

像这样。

like that.

没错。

That's right.

对。

Yeah.

那个有很多孩子的。

The one with all the kids.

对。

Yeah.

查理·辛是他的孩子。

Charlie Sheen is his child.

没错。

That's right.

是的。

Yeah.

但我认为他曾经是阿森纳青训营的孩子。

But he I think I believe he was a former Arsenal Academy kid.

马丁·辛。

Martin Sheen.

迈克尔·辛。

Michael Sheen.

迈克尔·辛。

Michael Sheen.

你说得基本正确。

You are kind of correct.

迈克尔·辛曾被阿森纳青年队录取，但他家人不愿搬去伦敦。

He was offered a place in arsenal's u team, Michael Sheen, but his family were unwilling to relocate to London.

众所周知，迈克尔·辛是位非常自豪的威尔士人。

Famously proud Welshman, Michael Sheen.

可以理解。

Fair enough.

好吧。

Okay.

所以他足球水平显然还行。

So he's obviously, like, okay at football.

嗯，就是这样。

Well, there you go.

而且，你知道，以现在的专业水准来看，如今的演员们可能和当年的球员水平相当。

And, you know, because of levels of professionalism now, actors now are as good as players were back then anyway.

也许吧。

So maybe.

嗯，他们的方法演技就是方法演技。

Well, their method acting being Method acting.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这说法不对。

I don't think that's true.

可能确实不对。

It may not be true.

别引用我这句话，杰。

Don't quote me on that, Jay.

总之，就这样吧。

Anyway, there we go.

阿布舍克，你认为最好的足球电影是哪部？

Abhishek, what's the best football film in your opinion?

老实说，我一部都不喜欢。

I don't like any of them, to be totally honest.

我喜欢《All or Nothing》。

I like I like All or Nothing.

我喜欢《All or Nothing》系列。

I like the All or Nothing series.

它们相当不错。

They're they're quite good.

它们非常真实。

They're they're pretty, like, real.

你知道这些都是真实的台词。

You know those are real lines.

比如，网络上的身体在表演。

Like, web body was acting.

没有演员

There's no actors

在里面。

in it.

韦伯·博迪的表演值得一提。

Web body was acting deserves some mention.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是真爱。

That's love true.

他。

Him.

他是那个经理。

He's the manager one.

每当我看到文森特·孔帕尼对着球员怒吼的片段，我就会想，但你知道摄像机就在那里。

Whenever I see that that clip of Vincent Company screaming at his players, I'm like, but you know the cameras are there.

对吧？

Right?

我就是没法认真对待，因为他知道镜头在那里。

I just can't take it seriously because he knows the cameras are there.

如果有人出于某种原因在这个办公室拍摄，呃，等等。

If there was someone filming for whatever reason in this office well, hang on.

我猜他们此刻就在这么做

I guess they're doing that right in this very second

我是说，就是我们自己。

I mean, literally us.

不。

No.

但如果真有，比如，一个纪录片团队在这里，我绝对不可能忘记他们的存在。

But if there was if there was, like, a sort of documentary team here, I I there's no way I wouldn't not I wouldn't forget they were here.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you know what I mean?

所以当我朝你大喊时，那会非常做作，约翰。

So when I screamed at you, it would be very performative, John.

确实会这样。

It would be.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

不过，24小时开着摄像头确实能让人做出些惊人的事。

It's amazing what you do with a camera on at all times, though, anyway.

这倒是真的。

That's true.

确实如此。

It is true.

也许我现在已经免疫了。

Maybe I'm immune now.

但也许你在没有摄像头时也会表演。

But maybe you perform even when cameras aren't around.

也许你的人生不过是一场表演。

Maybe your life is nothing more than a performance.

绝对是在办公室里一直保持着某种人设。

Definitely keeping up a persona throughout around the office.

是啊。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

百分之百。

100%.

当他

When he

回到家后

gets home and

生活就截然不同了。

the life is different.

给我妻子的人格面具。

Persona for my wife.

天啊。

Christ.

是个西班牙男人。

It's it's a Spanish man.

叫安奎尔。

Call Anquel.

我们在家玩得很开心。

We have a lot of fun at home.

更伟大的西班牙。

Bigger Spain.

你知道吗？

You know?

这是个词吗？

Was that a is that a word?

那是我的妻子吗？

Is that my wife?

意思是，就像，可爱的朋友。

Means, like, friend lovely.

对。

Yeah.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

妻子是什么？

What's wife?

女人。

Mujer.

这和我想要表达的意思相差甚远。

That's quite far away from what I was trying to say.

你用了什么，一个人们可能会用到的温暖美好的形容词。

What's You you used, a a nice warm adjective that people might use in that.

所以你其实是误打误撞说对了。

So you you were accidentally correct.

那挺好的。

That's nice.

这怎么说？

How about that?

好的。

Okay.

太棒了。

Great.

那么，无论如何，不从开头说起还能从哪里开始呢？

Well, anyway, where else to begin than the beginning?

在做其他事情之前，我们必须先谈谈这个。

We've got to talk about before we do anything else.

哈维·阿隆索，他在皇马已经承受了一些压力。

Xabi Alonso, who's already under some pressure at Real Madrid.

这很有趣，不是吗？

This is funny, isn't it?

哈维·阿隆索作为皇马教练的任期，史蒂夫，开局相当不错。

Xabi Alonso's tenure as Real Madrid coach, right Steve, started quite well.

他们在所有赛事的前14场比赛中赢了13场，包括听众们会记得的2比1战胜巴萨那场。

They won 13 of their first 14 games in all competitions, including a two one win over Barcelona listeners will remember.

然而自那以后，这种...这种...皇马这样的俱乐部通常无法容忍的滑坡，史蒂夫？

Since then, however, the the the sort of stumble a club like Madrid do not tend to tolerate, Steve?

这押韵押得真不错。

That's some fine alliteration.

没有没有。

Has has not.

这算押韵吗？

Is it alliteration?

通常无法容忍。

Do not tend to tolerate.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是头韵。

That's alliteration.

对。

Yeah.

那种咝咝声，还有种...

The sibilance and there's a lit

但有一种只是用s音。

but is one is just with s.

有一种

There's one

用元音的，还有一种用

with vowels and there's one with

不。

No.

不。

No.

s音重复只适用于s音。

Sibilance is just for the s.

对。

Yeah.

但元音有专门的术语吗？其他辅音呢？

But is there one for vowels and one for ad for the other ones?

我不知道。

I don't know.

刚才连续出现了三个t音。

That was three t's in a row.

这是头韵。

It's alliteration.

我认为这是头韵。

I think it's alliteration.

真要论起来，头韵始终是包含齿音在内的总称。

If if anything, alliteration is still the umbrella term for sibilance anyway.

齿音完全是多此一举。

Sibilance is just it's completely unnecessary.

我不考虑规则，老兄。

I don't think about rules, man.

我只是...只是写...

I just I just write what

凭感觉创作，你懂的。

I feel, you know.

我就是...

I just

齿音，这是你的真实感受。

Sibilance, you felt this.

没错。

Yes.

你感受到了这句话，像马德里这样的俱乐部通常不会容忍的失误已经发生了。

You felt this the sentence, the sort of stumble that a club like Madrid not tend to tolerate has happened.

听起来像在唱歌，不是吗？

Sings, doesn't it?

但齿音只是有人频繁使用's'音而已。

But the sibilance is just someone who uses the s sound loads.

对吧？

Right?

仅此而已。

That's that's all it is.

你知道想做什么吗？

Do know what want to do?

现在我一直在说这个。

Now now now I'm saying it so much.

每次我发's'音时都能听到。

All I can hear it every time I hit an s.

我每个字都能听到这个音。

I'm hearing it in every single word.

我们在说什么，是在说皇家马德里吗？

What are we talk are we talking about Real Madrid?

是的。

Yes.

平局，对吧，史蒂夫，对阵像赫罗纳和埃尔切这样的球队，呃...埃尔切该怎么发音来着？

Draws, right, Steve, against the likes of Girona and Elche have and highly how do you how do I say Elche?

是这样说的吗？

Is it is that right?

我只是觉得你说'像...这样的球队'很好笑，明明可以直接说队名的。

I just think it's funny that you said the likes of when you could just say them.

对吧？

Right?

你完全可以直接说队名。

You could say them.

不是像他们那样的球队。

It's not teams like them.

基本上就是你们的切尔西、你们的马尼·奈尔斯、你们的马尼·奈尔斯、还有梅西。

It was pretty much It's your Chelsea's, your Mani Niles, your Mani Niles, Messi's.

是你们的赫罗纳和埃尔切。

It's your Gironas and your Elche's.

还有主场0-2惨败给塞尔塔维戈的极度尴尬。

And a highly embarrassing two nil defeat at home against your Celta Vigos.

看到了吧，那是最新的一场。

Have seen that that was the most recent one.

对吧？

Right?

那是上周末的事。

That was over the weekend.

眼看着皇马在西甲落后巴萨4分了。

Have seen Real fall four points behind Barcelona in La Liga.

好的。

Okay.

情况相当严重。

It's pretty serious.

此外，可以说阿隆索和维尼修斯·儒尼奥尔之间的关系一直很紧张，而且已经公开化了。

Also, that there's been, I would say, a tense relationship, Ruben, between Alonso and Vinicius Junior that become very public as well.

这也引发了不少质疑。

That's also led to questions.

我的意思是，这些情况足以让《The Athletic》那些出色的西甲专栏作者用'他会不会丢掉工作？'这样的标题来报道了。

I mean, it's all it's enough for, you know, the the the fantastic La Liga writers at The Athletic to to headline things with, like, is he is he gonna lose his job?

你知道，他会不会离开？

Will he you know, could he be going?

看起来情况相当严重，不是吗？

Seems pretty serious, doesn't it?

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，取决于听众何时听到这期节目，他可能已经不再是皇马主帅了。

I mean, depending on when people listen to this, there is a possibility that he may no longer be a Real Madrid manager.

天哪。

I think my god.

正如你提到的，我们记者的印象是如果输给曼城的话...

The impression that our reporters, like you mentioned, are saying is that if they lose to Man City Yeah.

是的，在录制时的今晚，那他真的可能会下课。

This evening at the time of recording, then there's a real possibility he could go.

哦，所以他们今晚要对阵曼城，而我们的播客会在比赛结果出来后发布？

Oh, so so they're playing Man City tonight, and our podcast comes out after that that result?

我想是的。

I believe so.

没错。

Yeah.

噢，那挺好的。

Oh, that's good.

我之前不知道这件事。

I didn't know that.

所以，我是说，

So, I mean,

但阿尔诺·斯洛特现在正坐在家里祈祷呢，对吧？

which is But Arnaud Slot's sitting at home with his fingers crossed, isn't he?

拜托，认真点。

Come on, seriously.

什么？

What?

你是觉得要换工作了吗？

You if are you feeling a job swap?

呃，我只是在想，我不是说阿诺德·斯洛特希望接手皇马主帅的位置。

Well, I'm just thinking I don't mean Arnaud Slot's hoping to take the Real Madrid job.

我只是说，如果沙比·阿隆索突然有空，那么我觉得利物浦老板面临的问题就变成了不是‘我们该不该解雇阿诺德·斯洛特然后选谁’，而是‘我们该不该解雇阿诺德·斯洛特然后请沙比·阿隆索？’

I'm just saying, like, if Shabby Alonso is suddenly available, then I feel as though the question for Liverpool's owners becomes more not should we get rid of Arnaud Slot and pick who the hell, but, like, should we get rid of Arnaud Slot and ask Shabby Alonso?

也许答案是肯定的。

Maybe that's a yes.

所以你的言下之意是斯洛特会希望皇马赢？

So your implication was that Slot will be hoping Real Madrid win?

是的。

Yes.

明白了。

Right.

懂了。

Gotcha.

对。

Yeah.

谁知道呢？

And who knows?

不过确实。

But yeah.

让我们来推测一下其他教练希望得到什么。

Mean Let's speculate on other managers of what they're hoping for.

我认为鲁本·阿莫里姆也有同样的期望。

I think Ruben Amarim's hoping the same.

我不知道。

I don't know.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们整个赛季只输了三场比赛。

They've only lost three games all season.

没错。

Yeah.

这太疯狂了，对吧？

It's wild, isn't it?

而且这感觉更像是个文化问题，而非实际成绩问题。

And It feels like more of it like a cultural issue than it does like an actual results issue.

对吧？

Right?

是啊。

Yeah.

皇马与世界上其他顶级俱乐部截然不同，你知道的，基本上就是如此。

Real Madrid are very different club to, you know, basically, even all the other elite clubs in the world.

我们看到过教练去那里后，莫名其妙地就是无法...我是说，拉法·贝尼特斯和胡伦·洛佩特吉就是典型的例子。

We we've seen managers go there and just inexplicably kind of not be able to I mean, Rafa Benitez and Julian Lopetegui are examples you come to mind.

他们还没达到那个水平，所以可能注定会失败。

They're not quite of that level, so maybe they were always inevitably gonna fail.

但马德里有一种自我管理的氛围，甚至英超最大的俱乐部也无法比拟，这使得像沙比·阿隆索这样现代创新的战术教练——他为俱乐部效力过并赢得极大尊重——显得尤为特别。

But there is such an environment of kind of ego management around Madrid, unlike even the biggest Premier League clubs, which makes a modern innovative innovative tactical coach like Shabby Alonso, who has played for the club and commands great respect.

你知道，他至少应该具备一点齐达内那种‘我曾为这家俱乐部踢出辉煌’的因素。

You know, he has he should have at least a bit of that Zidane factor of I was a brilliant player for this club.

你们都记得看过我踢球，而且他相当有魅力，所以他应该能得到更衣室的尊重。

You all remember watching me and therefore, you know, and he's quite charismatic, so he should get the respect to the dressing room.

但显然，他经常轮换球队阵容。

But obviously, he's rotated his team quite a lot.

正如我们这周所发现的，那些拿着高薪、声名显赫且曾是球队核心的球员，在被放到替补席时总会心生不满。

And as we've discovered this week, players earning lots of money who are very famous and used to be the main star of the team don't like it when they get put on the bench.

据《The Athletic》报道，维尼修斯向俱乐部表示在阿隆索执教期间不会续约，这让俱乐部陷入了两难境地。

And Vinicius Junior kind of, as as reported in The Athletic, told the club that he wouldn't renew while Alonso was still there, putting the club in a bit of a sticky situation.

我认为最合理的做法是继续信任阿隆索，如果维尼修斯想去沙特阿拉伯之类的联赛，就放他走——毕竟你们已经拥有姆巴佩，而且他似乎没那么难伺候。

I think the most logical thing to do there would be to stick with Alonso and if Vinicius wants to go to somewhere like Saudi Arabia, then let him go because you've got Mbappe anyway, who seems to be causing less fuss.

不过确实，阿隆索在推行他的战术体系时遇到了一些阻力。

But yeah, Alonso is encountering some issues implementing his system.

由于这是皇家马德里——这支对成绩有着世界足坛最高期待的球队，这种局面似乎正在危及他的帅位。

And because it's Real Madrid and they have the highest expectations in world football, seemingly that is reason that he's to put his job in jeopardy.

但我的意思是...

But, I mean

明白了。

Got it.

这太疯狂了。

It's bonkers.

嗯，我我我看了一些《The Rest is Football》的片段，加里·莱因克尔的播客邀请了埃尔林·哈兰德作为嘉宾。

Well, I I I watched some clips from the rest is football, the Gary Lineker podcast had Erling Haaland on as a guest.

我猜是这周的事。

I assume it was this week.

加雷斯·奥伦卡问他的问题之一是关于为什么选择曼城，因为他说他认为埃尔林·哈兰德是第一个真正选择加盟英格兰球队而非巴萨和皇马的超级巨星球员。

And one of the questions that Gareth Orenica asked him was about why he chose Manchester City because he said he thinks Erling Haaland is the first genuine superstar player to choose to come to an English team over playing at at Barcelona and Real Madrid.

那么，阿布舍克，这个问题我想听听你的看法。

So, Abhishek, I'll come to you you with this one.

当我听鲁本谈论哈维·阿隆索在皇马遇到的问题时，同时我也在思考皇马更广泛的文化问题——他们历史上的比赛风格，以及球队的运作方式。

When I listen to Ruben talking there about the issues with Xabi Alonso at Real Madrid, and also I think about the kind of more the cultural issues more broadly with Real Madrid, how they've played historically, how they've operated as a team.

众所周知，他们以拥有银河战舰、巨额投入、签下具有巨大商业价值和广泛吸引力的球员而闻名，同时也聘请了齐达内、安切洛蒂这样的教练——这些教练可能更倾向于让球员在场上自行解决问题，而哈维·阿隆索这类教练则不然。

They you know, they're famous for having Galacticos, for spending lots of money, for signing players that have this huge commercial and broad appeal, and also for them for having coaches like Zidane, like Carlo Ancelotti, who've maybe allow the players to work out some of those problems more on the pitch than a manager like Xavi Alonso will do.

但面对英超与其他联赛日益扩大的经济差距，欧洲超级联赛的失败，以及当今最炙手可热的超级新星哈兰德选择英格兰球队而非皇马这一事实...

But in in the face of, you know, huge kind of growing economic gap between the Premier League and everyone else and the failure of the European Super League and the fact that Erling Haaland, you know, perhaps the most recent superstar, has chosen an English team over Real Madrid.

你是否认为，对皇马来说，现在比以往任何时候都更需要一位能充分发挥球员个人能力的体系型教练？

Do you think that it's maybe more important than ever that Real Madrid actually make it work with a system coach that can try and, you know, get more out of the individual players?

因为我感觉银河战舰时代恐怕难以为继了，不是吗？

Because I feel as though surely the future of the Galacticos can't can't continue, can it?

这是个很棒的问题，乔。

That's a great question, Joe.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yes.

我我我认为你说得对。

I I I think that's right.

而且我们已经在巴黎圣日耳曼身上看到了这种趋势。

And and we're already seeing with PSG.

对吧？

Right?

因为如果你看看巴黎圣日耳曼之前的模式，完全就是银河战舰模式，后来他们转变了方向，因为恩里克明确表示要重点培养现有的年轻球员，把他们打造成超级巨星，而不是一味地去购买现成的巨星或者顶尖球员。正如你所说，乔，欧洲其他联赛相比英超，特别是在电视转播权收入方面，差距相当大，对吧。

Because if if you look at what PSG's model was earlier, was literally galactico and then they shifted away from that because Enrique basically said let me just work with the younger players we have, turn them into superstars instead of sort of going out and buying superstars or maybe going and just buying the best players because every other league in Europe as you said, Joe, compared to the Premier League in terms of especially on TV rights are just like significantly weaker, right.

所以你们在财力上很难与英超俱乐部竞争。

So your ability to compete with Premier League clubs financially is impeded.

不过话说回来，皇马、巴萨、拜仁显然拥有强大的商业引擎，因为他们拥有全球粉丝基础，商业收入持续增长。

That said obviously Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, they have very strong commercial engines because they have a global fan base, they have grown commercial revenue, right.

因此他们在一定程度上降低了电视转播合约的风险。

So they have de risked from the TV deals to a reasonable degree.

但像巴黎这样改变模式的俱乐部，我认为也表明他们意识到不能继续无节制地烧钱了，对吧？

But then a club like PSG changing model I think also shows that they have realized they can't just keep burning money, right?

所以对皇马来说，这可能是个值得思考的转折点——他们可能也需要做出类似的权衡：是否要聘请一位教练来建立体系，或许我们不必每个赛季都去买世界上最贵的球员。

So maybe this is a point where it's interesting for Madrid but they probably have to make a similar kind of trade off to say like are we going to bring in a coach to set up a system and maybe actually we don't have to go and buy the best players in the world every single season.

或许我们应该打造一个让世界顶级球员主动想来效力的教练体系。

Maybe we create a coach and a system where the best players in the world want to come and play for us.

就像利物浦已经成功做到的那样，对吧？

Something like what Liverpool have managed to do, right?

因为他们夏季引援做得非常好，球员们被这套体系所吸引。

Because they recruited really well in the summer again because players were attracted to the system.

目前来看进展未必特别顺利，但我们不知道这是否会失败，对吧？

Now, it's not gone particularly well necessarily, but we don't know if it won't work, right?

而对于瓜迪奥拉来说，他显然成功吸引了哈兰德加盟。

So, and certainly for Pep, he's managed to obviously attract Erling Haaland.

我认为英超联赛在财务上将继续与皇马展开非常非常激烈的竞争。

And I think the Premier League will financially continue to compete very, very strongly with Real Madrid.

也许现在正是皇家马德里最终选择教练而非球员的时刻，同时选择一位真正能构建长期有效体系的教练，而非依赖那些靠一时风光上任、仅凭感觉行事的明星经理人。

So maybe it's the point where finally Real Madrid choose the coach over the player maybe and also choose a coach who actually helps build a system that works for the long run and not just, you know, solve it through sort of glam managers that come in and kind of run on vibes.

然后每隔两三个赛季就更换主帅，再买一批新球员，对吧？

And then every two, three seasons, end up changing the manager, buying another group of players, right?

或许他们意识到这种方式不可持续，毕竟转会费和工资的上涨趋势表明这条路走不通。

Maybe they realize that's not sustainable because certainly the way transfer fees and wages are growing, it won't be.

好吧，前几次阿布舍克来时，我们讨论的都是巴塞罗那的财务状况。

Well, the last few times that we've had Abhishek on, we've talked about Barcelona's finances.

嗯

Mhmm.

显然，他们目前正面临

Obviously, they have this ongoing

这种情况。

situation.

讨论过他们。

Talked about them.

我们主要是在倾听，应该说。

We we've listened mostly, I would say.

是的。

Yeah.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我们当时在学习。

We were learning.

不过我会说的，是的。

But I would talk yeah.

确实如此。

That's true.

你当时也在场。

You were there too.

我想我当时在场。

I think I was there.

你在吗？

You were?

也许吧。

Maybe.

我主要是倾听。

I was main mainly listening.

我是说，我并没有在听。

I mean, I wasn't listening.

约翰·约翰说了很多话。

John John talked a lot.

乔当时正在

Joe was doing

这就对了。

There we go.

乔当时在做数学题。

Joe was doing math.

我们已经讨论了他们当前的财务状况，我认为这显然影响了这两支球队彼此对阵的方式。

We've talked about their ongoing financial situation, and I think that obviously impacts the way that these that those two teams have have matched up against one another.

是啊。

Yeah.

但与此同时，我想，在过去的几个运动周里，在足球运动周里？

But at the same time, I guess, on the last few athletic weeks in the athletic weeks in football?

足球运动周？

The athletic weeks in football?

是的。

Yeah.

我想，就是'周中的竞技足球'，就像节目里说的那样

The athletic football in weeks, I think, is what's It's like the show that How

你怎么把'Ballon d'Or'变成复数形式？

do you pluralize Ballon d'Or?

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

Ballon's d'Or。

Ballon's d'Or.

Ballon's d'Or。

Ballon's d'Or.

是的。

Yeah.

足球周刊的体育赛事集锦。

The athletic week in football episodes.

是啊。

Yeah.

这些集锦中，我们一直在讨论一个现象，两支球队似乎朝着相反方向运作，几乎互换了位置。

Those episodes, we we've we've been remarking on the fact that it feels almost like the two teams are operating in different directions, and they've almost swapped places.

就像阿布舍克刚才说的，皇家马德里正在采用更现代化的方式来运营一家顶级足球俱乐部。

So it feels as though Real Madrid, as as Abhishek said there, are adopting a bit more of a modern approach to to running an an elite football club.

而巴塞罗那在汉斯·弗里克带领下踢的足球风格，让人想起过去那个只需堆砌顶级球星就能靠个人能力解决问题的年代。

Whereas it feels as though Barcelona have are sort of playing a style of football under Hansi Flick that is very reminiscent of of what happened in in in the in the older days where you could just load your team full of really fantastic players and use them to to solve problems individually.

但我认为真正的大问题在于——我们总会有个大问题

But I think that the the big question really, and we always have a big question

你们总是有大问题。

You always have big question.

是啊。

Yeah.

是什么问题？

What is it?

大问题是是是。

Big question is Is is.

是是

Is is

大问题是是约翰这个大

The big question is is Is John The big

问题是 是的。

question is Yeah.

银河战舰时代真的我们能否切实地拥有一个

Is the Galacticos era actually can we can we feasibly have like a

你能把大问题说完吗？

Can you get through the big question?

大问题是，银河战舰时代是否已经结束，还是说它只是可持续的

The big question is, is the Galactico's era, like, over or is it just sustainable in

是已经结束了还是说它真的结束了？

a like over or is it over?

结束了。

It's over.

结束了。

It's over.

是吗？

Is it?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我在问你呢

I'm asking you

为什么这是个重大问题。

why it's big question.

你觉得结束了吗，鲁本？

Do you think it's over, Ruben?

我...我觉得我们要讨论Galaxico的事，还得谈谈我...

I I think we're gonna talk about Galaxico's, we also have to talk I'm

只是开玩笑的。

just joking.

不。

No.

我...我只是想接着讨论

I I just I wanted to pick up on

这里有些微妙的冒犯，我不喜欢这样。

some microaggressions here, and I don't like it.

其中有些已经相当明显了

Some of them are more macro

是啊。

than Yeah.

你的就很明显。

Yours are macro.

闭嘴，小人物。

Shut up, micro.

我想接着谈谈阿布舍克提到的巴黎圣日耳曼的类比，因为我认为巴黎圣日耳曼从梅西、内马尔和姆巴佩这样的巨星，转型为每个位置都是6000万英镑级别的球员，这种体系化的教练理念...

I wanted to pick up on the PSG comparison Abhishek made because I think PSG's transition from, like, Messi, Neymar, and Bappe to not one superstar, but, like, a £60,000,000 player in every position, system coach.

这也算是俱乐部有意重塑品牌形象的一部分，更倾向于回归巴黎本土化，培养巴黎本土球员

That is also kind of part of a conscious rebrand from the club to lean more into their Parisian roots and have Parisian players

当然。

Sure.

并且

And be

还有他们的法国根源。

And their French roots as well.

是的。

Yeah.

而且简称也被叫作'巴黎'

And be referred to as Paris in shorthand

是啊。

Yeah.

因为他们的老板似乎意识到，这不仅没能带来他们梦寐以求的欧冠奖杯，球迷们还非常反感这种模式。

Rather because think their ownership kind of realized that not only was it not bringing in their elusive Champions League title, but fans hated it.

没人知道圣日耳曼是什么意思。

No one knows what the Saint Germain means.

确实。

Exactly.

圣什么？

What does Saint

日耳曼到底是谁？圣日耳曼是谁？

Germain Who the hell is Saint Germain?

继承人吗？还是说...嗯。

An heir is it just yeah.

巴黎，我想是的。

Paris, I think so.

是啊。

Yeah.

是吗？

Is it?

对。

Yeah.

不过，我认识几个巴黎圣日耳曼的球迷，他们从来没有像喜欢维蒂尼亚、登贝莱这样的球员那样喜欢过那些超级球星。

But, like, I I know a couple of PSG fans, and they've, like, they never warmed to the superstars in the way that they have warmed to players like Vitinia and, you know, Dembele.

没错。

Right.

我得强调一下，谷歌上的AI概览，就是谷歌上的AI概览。

The AI overview on Google, I should stress, it is the AI overview on Google.

所以，你知道，

So, you know,

如果是你从不会去...你懂吧，你会稍微做点调查。

if it's You never go you know, you do a little bit of research.

你永远不会超越AI。

You never go beyond the AI.

你就像在说，我试过了。

You're like, I tried.

我是现代互联网搜索的缩影。

I'm a I'm a reflection of modern Internet searches.

确实如此。

You are.

这就是为什么你会遇到问题。

It's I'm the reason why You got a problem.

互联网很快就要消亡了。

Internet will soon be dead.

他不是那个

He's not the

让我们都很快完蛋的原因。

reason why we'll all soon be dead.

我就是你即将

I'm the reason why you'll soon

死去的原因。

be dead.

这里没有别人。

No one else here.

自从遇见你，我的心就已经死了。

I've been dead inside ever since I met you.

PSG意味着这家足球俱乐部既代表巴黎（城市颜色为红与蓝），也代表附近的皇家小镇圣日耳曼，

PSG means that the football club represents both Paris, which is the city's colors red and blue, and the nearby royal town of Saint Germain,

洛杉矶。

LA.

洛杉矶。

LA.

因为他们是一家合并俱乐部，

Because that's where the They're a merger club,

不是吗？

aren't they?

他们是由两家俱乐部合并而成的。

They're a merger club.

是的。

Yeah.

这家俱乐部是与圣日耳曼体育场合并成立的。

The club was formed with the merger with Stade Saint Germain.

那种利口酒就是源自那里吗？

Is that where the the liqueur comes from?

圣日耳曼？

Saint Germain?

是接骨木花利口酒吗？

Is it an elderflower liqueur?

也许吧。

Maybe.

我不太熟悉。

I'm not familiar.

会很不错，对吧？

Be nice, wouldn't it?

我想是叫这个名字。

Think that's what it's called.

是啊。

So yeah.

所以如果他们

So if if they

你认为法国每个城镇都有当地特产的饮品吗？

Do you think every French town or city has a special drink that's made there?

很可能。

Probably.

因为我前几天看了这部——看了这部很糟糕的网飞电影。

Because this I watched this really I watched this terrible Netflix film the other day.

那部电影叫《香槟问题》。

It was called Champagne Problems.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

这是部圣诞电影。

It's it's a Christmas film.

阿布舍克你应该看看。

You should watch Abhishek.

你会喜欢的。

You'd love it.

那可是种微歧视。

And it's That's a microaggression.

我知道。

I know.

我抓住他了。

I've got I've got him.

我下一部电影就来找你。

I'm coming for you next movie.

哦，天哪。

Oh my gosh.

讲的是一个在美国大酒企工作的女人，她去巴黎收购香槟品牌的故事。

It's about this this American woman who works for, a big alcohol company, and she's she's gone traveled to Paris to buy the champagne brand.

我不知道。

I don't know.

他们是来自...我

They're from I

不知道。

don't know.

是什么促使

What induced

你看这个的？

you to watch this?

我当时生病了，就想看些能让我感觉好点的东西。

What I was ill, and I was, like, I wanna watch something that'll make me feel better.

于是我上了Netflix，上面有个圣诞专题，我就随便选了第一个。

So I I went on Netflix and there was, like, a Christmas selection on there, and I just picked the first thing.

我当时想，好吧，就看这个吧。

I was like, yeah, go on.

无所谓啦。

Whatever.

那个真正性感的家伙，真的让人兴奋，你懂的，

The real hunky guy, real excite you know,

你想要

that you want

这是那种让我觉得，如果我是法国人，我会对这部电影有同样的感受，就像我对那些在伦敦拍摄的美国电影的感觉一样，他们把伦敦描绘得像是，你

It's one of those where I thought this this film if I was French, I would feel about this film in the way that I feel about American films made in London, where they where they paint London as though, you

知道最糟糕的例子就是，那部关于男友杀人的剧

know The worst example of which being, you know, You, the drama about the boyfriend who kills

杀人犯？

people?

是斯卡莱蒂·汉森。

Scarletty Hansen is.

我不知道。

I don't know.

不是。

No.

他叫什么名字？

What's his name?

佩恩·贝格利？

Pen Badgley?

那是他的名字吗？

Is that his name?

我不知道。

I don't know.

佩恩·巴杰利。

Pen Badgley.

这部剧就叫《你》。

The series is just called You.

名字听起来像是他编造的。

Name I feel like he's making stuff up.

是啊。

Yeah.

他的名字是佩恩·巴杰利。

His name is Pen Badgley.

哦，美国演员兼电影制片人佩恩·巴杰利。

Oh, American actor and film producer, Pen Badgley.

没错。

Yeah.

总之他演了一部剧

Anyway, he's in a drama

一部名为《你》的剧集。

series called You.

哦，那部电视剧《你》吗？

And Oh, the TV series, You?

对。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

我从来没看过。

I never watched it.

没有。

No.

但在第三季，可能是第四季，他们去了伦敦。

And there's a but the in the third season, I think, maybe the fourth, they're in London.

因为我们就住在伦敦，所以我看到时会想‘哦，那是肖尔迪奇区’

And because, obviously, we live in London, so I can see, oh, that's Shoreditch.

然后他转过街角，就到了肯辛顿。

And he turns around the corner, and he's in Kensington.

我就觉得，这不可能。

And I'm just like, no.

没错。

Right.

这

That's

你得去坐地铁。

You've gotta get on the tube.

我讨厌这个，因为我觉得美国人要么就做得特别好。

I hate it because I think that they do either extreme really well, the Americans.

一方面，他们会拍一部电影，说我要去伦敦度假。

On the one hand, they'll make a film where, yeah, they'll say, I'm going on holiday to London.

我会住在某个地方，然后他们就住在某个绝对不可思议的地方。

I'm staying somewhere, and then they stay somewhere absolutely incredible.

是啊。

Yeah.

就在大本钟的时钟里面。

Inside of Big Ben's clock.

或者另一种极端情况，他们会说，伦敦有些地方你根本不能去，因为你会立刻被网络激光什么的干掉，而且那里没人说英语。

Or at the other end where they say, you know, there are areas in London you can't even go to because you'll be instantly murdered by cyber lasers or something, you know, when no one speaks English.

我就说，对啊。

I'm like, yeah.

不。

No.

这不真实。

It's not real.

就是假的。

It just isn't real.

我们都住在这里。

We all live here.

有内容被剪掉了。

Something got cut.

是关于政治的。

It was about politics.

我只是很惊讶能被邀请参加《被你遗忘的电影》这期节目。

I'm just impressed that I was invited on an episode of movies you forgot You Forgot.

我居然会被邀请。

I'd be invited.

就是这样。

There you go.

这可是——这可是比我这个更好的播客难得的宣传机会。

That's a that's a rare promotion for my better podcast than this one.

听听那个。

Listen listen to that.

总之

Anyway

看《Valleys》真烂。

Watching Valleys are shit.

我们在聊什么来着。

What are we talking yeah.

值得吗？

Is worth?

什么

What

在聊哦，我们在聊皇家马德里。

are talking Oh, we're talking about Real Madrid.

到到

To to

某种程度上我们已经完成了 好吧，关键问题是 那个大问题

to kind of we've of done Well, the big question is The big big question

是啊。

is Yeah.

我想这就是最让我感兴趣的地方——是否真的能单纯靠堆砌精英球员组建一支球队，通过发挥他们的优势、淡化一些结构性元素来取得成功？

I guess that's what's most interesting for me about this, about whether or not you can just stack a team full of elite players and get by on on, like, playing to their to to their strengths and maybe downplaying some of the more structural elements?

我认为现在已经不行了，约翰。

I think you can't anymore, John.

有可能。

Potentially.

这只是我的看法。

That's just me.

有可能。

Potentially.

我我

I I

我也不知道。

don't know either way.

但现实情况是，现在大多数顶级球队都选择了这个方向。

But, like, think the the reality is is that the majority of teams now at the elite level have gone in that direction.