棕熊袭击 - 奥尔加、伊戈尔与堪察加的棕熊

它们会变胖。

They get that.

我知道。

I know.

不。

No.

你们俩都不是。

Either of you.

动力就小了，对吧。

Less incentive to, like yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没那么有攻击性了。

Less aggressive.

不会想着吃人了。

Try to eat humans.

我觉得更准确的说法是，它们更宽容。

More I would say even, like, the better way to phrase that is they're more tolerant.

它们只是……

They just

我喜欢迈克的说法。

I like how Mike phrased it.

迈克说了什么？

What did Mike say?

吃人的动机。

Incentive to eat humans.

对。

Yeah.

就是这样。

There you go.

确实有点道理。

It's kinda true.

更多的情况是，当很多熊聚集在一个食物来源周围时，它们已经学会了容忍其他熊的存在，因为食物对每只熊来说都足够。

It's more that often when there are a lot of bears over a food source, they've just learned to tolerate the presence of other bears because there's enough food for everyone.

真的没什么理由去打架。

There really isn't a reason to fight.

每只熊都吃得很好。

Everyone is being well fed.

当然，还是会有一些争斗，比如为了交配或者其他一些事情，但远没有黄石公园的熊、冰川熊或内陆阿拉斯加的熊那么频繁。

There still are gonna be some scuffles over, like, mating over a few different things, but not nearly as much as you would see with, like, Yellowstone bears or glacier bears or Inland Alaska bears.

这些沿海资源的熊往往更宽容，而且这种对其他熊的容忍也会延伸到其他动物身上，我们人类也属于这一类。

These bears on coastal resources just tend to be more tolerant, and that that tolerance for other bears kind of gets extended for other animals too, and we fall into that category.

所以，再说一遍，如果你在看Instagram或TikTok上的视频，看到有人经常在开阔的草原或潮滩上，紧挨着一只大灰熊，那很可能是在沿海阿拉斯加或沿海俄罗斯。

So, again, if you are watching, like, Instagram videos or TikTok videos and you see someone often kind of in these big open grasslands or on a tidal flat and they're right next to a really big grizzly bear, it's probably in Coastal Alaska or Coastal Russia.

这些熊就是能容忍人靠得很近。

These bears just tolerate people being very close.

这并不意味着你应该靠那么近，尤其是在没有向导的情况下，但你可以做到。

Doesn't mean you should approach them that closely, especially without a guide, but You can.

它们确实能容忍。

They do tolerate it.

是的。

Yes.

你可以这么做。

You could.

但我们要说的是，即使这些熊也可能极其危险。

But we're gonna talk about how, you know, even these bears can be incredibly dangerous.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们说过它们非常大。

So we said they're really big.

它们是世界上最大的熊之一。

These are some of the biggest bears in the world.

它们和你在科迪亚克见到的差不多大。

They're equal to, like, what you'd expect in Kodiak.

它们的体重最高能达到大约1500磅，这差不多就是世界上最大的熊的体重上限了。

They top out at about 1,500 pounds, which is about what the biggest bears in the world top out at.

就连大型的北极熊也就差不多这么大。

Even, like, big polar bears only get about that big.

所以这些真的是非常大的动物。

So these are really large animals.

先透露一点，俄罗斯有一个类似蒂莫西·特雷德韦尔的人，他在堪察加半岛和这些熊生活在一起，结果和蒂莫西差不多，他能非常接近这些熊，有时甚至能触摸它们。

As a small teaser, there was a Russian equivalent to Timothy Treadwell that lived among these bears in Kamchatka, and he had similar results to Timothy where he could get really close to these bears and even touch them at times.

他把它们当作朋友一样对待。

He treated them kinda like they were friends.

这个人也飞得太靠近太阳了，开始自以为是熊语者，最后被一只棕熊杀死了。

And this guy also flew way too close to the sun, kinda started drinking his own Kool Aid as a bear whisperer, and ended up getting killed by a brown bear.

我们以后会讲他的故事。

And we will do his story at some point.

他的名字是不是叫蒂莫·费·特雷德韦洛夫之类的？

Is his name like Timo Fey Treadwellov or something?

特雷德拉斯坎。

Treadlaskan.

特雷德

Tread

我得做很多事情。

I'm gonna have to do a lot.

特雷德拉斯科维奇？

Treadlaskovich?

更正

Corrections

关于我在幕后告诉很多人的事情。

to what I've been telling a lot of people behind the scenes.

你一直在做什么？

What have you been doing?

告诉他们我一直在

Telling them I've been

告诉他们你觉得蒂莫西·特雷德韦尔接触熊的想法不太好，但我觉得现在还没有足够的证据来下这个结论。

telling them that you didn't think Timothy Treadwell had a very good idea of touching bears, but then I didn't think there's enough evidence to say that yet.

然后

And then

哦，有证据的。

Oh, there is.

你现在有两个数据点了。

You have two data points now.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这家伙是什么时候活跃的？

When was this guy active?

他活跃的时间跟蒂莫西很接近。

It was very, like, close to the time that Timothy was active too.

具体日期我不记得了，但他们几乎是同时活跃的，大概九十年代初吧。

I don't remember the exact dates, but they were they were almost I think they were active at the same time, like early nineties.

因为我觉得那时候人们才开始意识到，哦，熊其实可以对人挺宽容的。

Because I do think that was kind of when people started to realize, like, oh, bears can actually be quite tolerant of humans.

对。

Yeah.

好吧。

Alright.

但他太冒进了。

But he flew too close to the sun.

他丢了性命。

He got killed.

他死得很惨。

He died in a terrible a terrible way.

你们觉得俄罗斯版的酷爱饮料是什么？

What do you guys think the Russian equivalent to Kool Aid is?

我刚才说他喝的是自己的酷爱饮料。

I just said he was drinking his own Kool Aid.

哦，我不知道。

Oh, I don't know.

伏特加？

Vodka?

对。

Yeah.

雪花味的伏特加。

Flake flavored vodka.

伏特加里加点樱桃味的那种。

Vodka with, like, some cherry flavoring in it.

蓝莓味。

Blue raspberry.

我也在想。

I was thinking too.

他们确实是太空竞赛中的头号竞争者。

They were really they were, like, the number one competitor in the space race.

你觉得他们会有俄罗斯风味吗？

You think they have a Russian tang?

因为那是给宇航员喝的。

Because that was, like, for astronauts.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yeah.

伏特加。

Vodka.

伏特加。

Vodka.

伏特加味的东西。

Vodka flavored thing.

对。

Yeah.

所以整个背景其实就是想说，虽然这些棕熊体型巨大，但总体来说它们是世界上脾气最好的熊之一，而且它们经常生活在人类和其他熊附近。

So the whole background here is basically to say that while these brown bears are absolutely massive, they are in general some of the best tempered bears in the world, brown bears, and ones that often exist close to humans and other bears.

但和所有熊一样，它们有时也完全不可预测，所以它们值得我们尊重，也值得我们保持适当的距离。

But like all bears, they can be totally unpredictable at times, and that makes them animals that deserve our respect and the appropriate amount of distance.

不幸的是，在2011年8月底，奥尔加和她的继父伊戈尔不小心闯入了最不该惊扰的那种棕熊的安全距离——你们知道最不该惊扰的棕熊是什么吗？

Unfortunately, in late August twenty eleven, both Olga and her stepfather, Igor, would mistakenly invade the allowable distance of the worst kind of brown bear to surprise, which is you guys know what the worst brown bear you could surprise is?

是带着幼崽的母熊吗？

Is it a mother with cubs?

没错。

Exactly.

带着幼崽的母熊。

A mother with cubs.

好的。

Alright.

我们先稍微倒回去一点。

Let's rewind a tiny bit.

合适的距离大概相当于多长的公交车？

How long of a bus would the appropriate distance be?

在黄石公园，我们总是说要保持100码的距离。

A 100 yards is what we would always say in Yellowstone.

这也是我建议的。

That's what I would recommend.

公交车。

Bus.

对。

Yeah.

那可真长。

So Big.

100码是多少？

A 100 yards is what?

转弯。

Turns.

300英尺。

300 feet.

那辆巴士大概有40英尺长。

That bus is, like, 40 feet long.

那算什么呢？

So what is that?

那大概相当于八辆巴士。

That's, like, eight buses.

雨人。

Rain man.

我们节目里来了个雨人。

We got rain man on the show.

不止那个。

More than that.

对。

Yeah.

还不止呢。

More than that.

差不多有九辆公交车那么长。

It's like nine A bad

雨人。

rain man.

对。

Yeah.

好吧。

Alright.

对。

Yeah.

这个雨人可不太聪明。

Not a very smart rain man.

就是那个一到赌场就把钱全输光的雨人。

The rain man that immediately loses all his money in the casino.

对。

Right.

咱们往回倒一点。

Let's rewind a little.

奥尔加就是在这种环境里长大的。

Olga's growing up in this yep.

我们不需要时光机。

We don't need our time machine.

我们只需要超人绕着地球飞个四圈就行。

We just need Superman to fly around the earth, like, four times.

好。

Okay.

奥尔加在俄罗斯一个非常美丽又独特的地方长大。

Olga's growing up in this really beautiful and unique part of Russia.

到了2011年，她19岁，正在接受心理学培训，而且她还受过很系统的音乐教育。

And in 2011, she's a 19 year old psychologist in training, and she's also done extensive schooling for music.

看起来她有点像是个天才少年。

Kinda seems like she's a bit of a protege.

就是那种高中一毕业，就已经远远领先于所有同学的人。

One of those people that as soon as they graduate high school, they're already, like, so far ahead of all their classmates.

而且一看就知道将来会很有出息。

And just a person that you know is gonna go really far in life.

就像你跟熊一样。

Like you with bears.

我可不敢这么说。

I wouldn't say that.

你小时候就是个熊天才。

You were a bear protege growing up.

我确实很喜欢熊。

I loved bears.

这倒是真的。

That's true.

所有研究熊的科学家都会来我们家看你。

All the bear scientists would come to our house and look at you.

对。

Yeah.

还有熊童子军来过呢。

We had bear scouts coming by.

生物学家选秀的状元秀。

First overall pick in the biologist draft.

好吧。

Alright.

所以她的妈妈塔蒂亚娜，跟奥尔加的爸爸离婚了，后来改嫁给了一个叫伊戈尔的男人。

So her mom, Tatiana, had been divorced from Olga's dad, and she remarried a man named Igor.

抱歉。

I'm sorry.

我对俄语名字不太熟，但我觉得至少差不多是这样。

I'm bad with Russian names, but I'm pretty sure that's close at least.

从现在起我就叫他伊戈尔了。

I'm just gonna call him Igor from now on.

这个伊戈尔啊，他特别热爱大自然和户外活动。

And this Igor guy, he really loved nature and the great outdoors.

堪察加真是个钓鱼、徒步、探险的好地方。

Kamchatka is just a wonderful place to to, like, fish, to hike, to explore.

他和奥尔加在这方面很合得来，他们经常一起在堪察加的野外钓鱼、采野菜、休闲娱乐，享受那些特别美的自然风光。

And him and Olga had that in common, and they shared this bond where they would spend a lot of time in the wilds of Kamchatka fishing, foraging, recreating, and just enjoying these really beautiful surroundings.

对我来说，这个地方在我最想去的十大目的地里。

It's like this is on the top 10 list for me of places I would love to visit.

感觉就像是阿拉斯加的荒野版，那种在美国曾经有但现在几乎找不到的地方。

It just seems like a wilder version of Alaska, a place that used to exist in The US, but we don't really even have anymore.

那里真的太美了。

It's truly gorgeous.

奥尔加和伊戈尔一有空就去享受那里的美景。

Olga and Igor spent every minute they could enjoying it.

而奥尔加的妈妈塔季扬娜似乎对这些冒险没那么热衷，但她很高兴他们能因为大自然而建立感情。

And Tatiana didn't seem to be quite as into these adventures, Olga's mom, but she loved that they could bond over the natural world.

她非常开心，自己那个聪明、热情、友善的女儿有了一个可以依靠的新父亲形象。

She was really happy that her bright, warm, friendly daughter had this new father figure that she could rely on.

2011年8月，奥尔加和伊戈尔决定去露营，顺便去取回伊戈尔忘在河边的一根鱼竿，那条河在半岛上一个小村庄特尔马洛尼附近。

And in August 2011, Olga and Igor decided to go on a camping trip, and they're also retrieving a fishing rod that Igor had forgotten near a river close to the small village of Termaloni on the peninsula.

再说一遍，有几个消息来源说是在别的地方，但这件事确实发生在那个村庄附近。

Now, again, a couple sources reported this in a different spot, but this did happen near this village.

关于他们被袭击那天到底发生了什么，信息不多，因为他们俩在野外独处。

There's not a ton of information about exactly what happened the day they were attacked because they're both alone out in the wilderness.

但就在他们取那根丢失的鱼竿，或者可能在钓鱼或沿着河边走的时候，他们惊动了一只带着三只幼崽的母棕熊。

But while they were retrieving this lost rod or maybe fishing or walking alongside the river, they surprised a female brown bear with three cubs.

那只熊冲向奥尔加和伊戈尔，立刻抓住伊戈尔，把他扑倒在地。

The bear ran at Olga and Igor and immediately grabbed Igor, knocking him to the ground.

很难确切说他到底遭遇了什么，但发现他的时候，他的脖子断了，头骨和整个脑袋都被彻底压碎了。

It's impossible to say exactly what happened to him, but he was found with his neck broken and his skull, and his whole head had been completely crushed.

哇。

Wow.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以，我找不到其他关于受伤或什么的报道。

So I can't find any other reports of injuries or anything.

但根据我的经验，这意味着当那只熊把他扑倒在地时，她立刻跳到了他的头和脖子上。

But from my experience, what that means is that when that bear knocked him on the ground, she immediately just jumped on his head and his neck.

因为我们以前见过这种情况，比如罗马尼亚的那个女人。

Because we've seen that happen before, like the woman in Romania.

有时候它们真的会直接跳到想要制服的猎物身上，把全部重量压在前爪上，那样就会立刻杀死他。

They sometimes they'll literally just jump on something that they're trying to neutralize and put all their weight on their front paws, and that would have just immediately killed him.

我觉得，从某种意义上说，伊戈尔算是幸运的，没有经历漫长的死亡过程，因为这只熊几乎瞬间就压碎了他的头。

I mean, I think Igor, in a way, was spared a long death in that this bear crushed his head in almost instantaneously.

对。

Yeah.

你是说他算幸运？

You're saying he's lucky?

是的。

Yes.

跟奥尔加比起来，他确实算幸运的，虽然这么说挺残忍。

Compared to Olga, he is, unfortunately.

对。

Yeah.

所以，当奥尔加看到这只大型雌性棕熊几乎毫不费力地杀死了她的继父时，她惊慌失措，转身就跑。

So after she saw this large female brown bear almost, effortlessly kill her stepfather, Olga, in a blind panic, turned and ran.

她跑了大约200英尺，突然感觉熊咬住了她的腿后部，把她拽倒在地。

And she made it about 200 feet when she felt the bear bite into her back of her leg and pull her to the ground.

她立刻开始反抗，但熊已经压在她身上，又咬又抓。

She immediately started trying to fight back, but this bear was on top of her, biting her and raking her with its claws.

而且不管出于什么原因，和伊戈尔的情况不同，这只母熊没有立刻扑上来压住她，而是继续咬她，把她按在地上。

And for whatever reason, unlike with Igor, this female bear didn't try to immediately crush her, but instead it continued to bite and pin her to the ground.

奥尔加刚刚亲眼看到继父几秒钟内就死了，她可能觉得自己也要遭遇同样的命运。

And Olga, who had just seen her stepfather die in seconds, probably thought that she was about to suffer the same fate.

为了最后搏一把，她掏出手机，给妈妈打了电话。

And in a last ditch effort to escape this bear, she pulls out her cell phone and she calls her mom.

想象一下你是她妈妈。

So imagine you're her mom.

对。

Yeah.

你接起电话，而这只熊正在疯狂地撕咬奥尔加。

You pick up the cell phone call, and this bear is actively mauling Olga.

她妈妈接了电话，听到19岁女儿的尖叫声，还有熊的喘息和低吼。

And her mom answers, and she hears the screams of her 19 year old daughter and the huffing and grunting of the bear.

奥尔加说，妈妈，熊在吃我。

And Olga says, mom, the bear is eating me.

妈妈，太痛苦了。

Mom, it's such agony.

妈妈，救我。

Mom, help.

熊还在不停地甩她。

And the bear shaking her around.

而且有时候，她偶尔会跟妈妈开个玩笑。

And occasion I guess, like, occasionally, she would play a practical joke on her mom.

所以她妈妈一开始以为这只是个恶作剧。

So her mom initially thought that this was just a prank.

但紧接着，她就听出了女儿声音里真实的恐惧和痛苦。

And then immediately after that, recognize, like, the actual fear and pain in her daughter's voice.

对。

Yeah.

然后意识到，她正接到女儿打来的最可怕、最难以想象的电话。

And realize, like, she's getting the most, like, unimaginably horrific call from her daughter.

天哪。

Dude.

对。

Yeah.

所以，如果你跟我一样，真的很在乎你的宠物。

So So if you're like me, you really care about your pets.

尤其是我的狗，我就知道，我给她越好的关注、照顾和健康，她的寿命就会越长、越充实、越快乐。

My dog, especially, I just know that the better attention and care and health that I can give her, the longer and fuller and happier her life will be.

狗真的是很好的伙伴。

And dogs can be a real companion.

我的意思是，它们是你一辈子都会陪在身边的宠物。

I mean, they are a pet that you're gonna have by your side your entire life.

你可以和狗建立非常深厚的感情。

You can form an incredible bond with the dog.

所以给它们吃好的食物真的很重要。

So it's really important that you give them really good food.

Ollie提供干净、新鲜的营养，还有五种让人垂涎的口味。

And Ollie delivers clean, fresh nutrition and five drool worthy flavors.

即使是最挑食的狗狗也能接受，它们在美国厨房里用最高品质的人用级食材制作。

They work for even the pickiest eaters, made in US kitchens with the highest quality human grade ingredients.

它们的食物不含填充物，不含防腐剂。

Their food contains no fillers, no preservatives.

就是真正的食物。

It's just real food.

我觉得这真的很重要。

And I think that's really important.

当你这样给你的狗狗喂真正的食物，你会有一只更快乐的狗狗。

When you give your dog real food like this, you're gonna have a happier pup.

它们会有更多精力，毛发更亮，便便更好，而且吃饭时更兴奋。

They're gonna have more energy, shinier coats, better poops, and just more excitement at mealtime.

它们有五种富含蛋白质的食谱，比如新鲜牛肉配红薯，新鲜火鸡配蓝莓，这些连最挑食的狗狗都无法抗拒。

They have five protein packed recipes, stuff like fresh beef with sweet potatoes, fresh turkey with blueberries, stuff that even the pickiest dogs are not gonna be able to resist.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

我真的很在意给动物吃好的食物，所以我们不会随便跟任何宠物食品品牌合作。

I really care about giving animals really good food, so we wouldn't just partner with any pet food brand.

我们真的很信任Ollie，而且我确实也喂给我的狗吃。

We really do trust Ollie, and I do feed it to my dog.

它的运作方式是，你填写Ollie的三十秒问卷，他们会根据你的狗狗的体重、活动量和其他健康信息，制定一个定制化的餐食计划。

So how it works is you fill out Ollie's thirty second quiz, and they create a customized meal plan based on your pup's weight, activity level, and other health info.

然后，第一次订购的人会收到一个欢迎套装。

And then you'll get a welcome kit for first timers.

你会收到第一箱，里面有两周的餐食、一个免费的储物容器，还有一份指南，教你如何逐步让狗狗过渡到新饮食。

You'll get a first box with two weeks worth of meals, a free storage container, and a guide on how to gradually switch them over to their new diet.

而真正让Ollie与众不同的是，他们是唯一提供无限次常规健康筛查的新鲜狗粮品牌，这样你可以让你的狗狗走上最健康、最快乐的生活轨道。

And the thing that really makes Ollie different is they are the only fresh dog food that comes with unlimited routine health screenings so you can get your pup on track to living their healthiest, happiest life.

狗狗值得最好的，这意味着新鲜、健康的食物。

Dogs deserve the best, and that means fresh, healthy food.

去 ollie.com/tooth，告诉他们你狗狗的情况，然后输入优惠码 tooth，今天订阅就能享受欢迎套装六折优惠。

Head to ollie.com/tooth, tell them all about your dog, and use code tooth to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today.

而且，他们对第一盒还提供满意保证。

Plus, they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box.

所以如果你不是完全满意，可以全额退款。

So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back.

网址是 ollie.com/tooth，输入优惠码 tooth 就能享受第一盒六折优惠。

That's ollie.com/tooth, and enter code tooth to get 60% off your first box.

感谢 Ollie 赞助本期节目。

Thank you, Ollie, for sponsoring this episode.

电话断了，塔蒂亚娜试着打给伊戈尔，却不知道他刚刚被熊杀死了。

The call cuts out, and Tatiana tries to call Igor, not knowing that he had just been killed by the bear.

然后她打电话给当地的警察，以及她所在位置附近城镇的一些家人，奥尔加也在那里，想找人过去帮忙。

She then calls police in the local area and some family members in the town closest to where she was, where Olga was, to try and get someone out there to help them.

这时她的电话又响了，接起来又听到女儿的尖叫声。

Then her phone rings again, and she answers to hear her daughter screaming again.

奥尔加说，妈妈，熊又回来了。

And Olga says, mom, the bears are back.

它回来了，还带了三个熊宝宝。

She came back, and she brought her three babies.

它们在吃我。

They're eating me.

电话又断了。

Call cuts out again.

天哪。

Oh my god.

是的。

Yeah.

于是塔蒂亚娜又试着打电话叫人去帮忙，你知道，去那里救她们。

So Tatiana again tries to call people to help them, you know, get out there.

她终于联系上了警察和伊戈尔的一些家人，他们正在赶来的路上。

And she finally she gets a hold of the police and some of Igor's family, and they're en route.

她一直不停地给奥尔加打电话，一遍又一遍，但始终没人接。

And she just keeps trying to call Olga again and again and again, but she's not getting any answer.

大约在最初那通电话一个小时后，她接到了奥尔加打来的最后一通电话。

And then about an hour after the initial call, she gets a final call from Olga.

熊已经离开了她，现在正在啃食伊戈尔的尸体。

And the bears had left her, and they were now feeding on Igor's body.

她打电话给妈妈，说：妈妈，现在不疼了。

And she called her mom and she said, mom, it's not hurting anymore.

我感觉不到任何疼痛了。

I don't feel any pain.

原谅我的一切。

Forgive me for everything.

我非常爱你。

I love you so much.

电话断了，这成了塔季扬娜最后一次听到女儿的声音。

And the call cut out, and those would be the last words that Tatiana would ever hear from her daughter.

伊戈尔的哥哥带着几个警察赶到了现场，那只熊还在啃食伊戈尔的尸体。

Igor's brother showed up with some police at the scene, and the bear was still feeding on Igor.

可惜的是，我觉得他们没准备好应对这些熊，也没敢立刻冲进去，但他们能看出伊戈尔和奥尔加都已经死了。

Unfortunately, I don't think they were, like, prepared to deal with these bears and immediately rush in, but they could tell that both Igor and Olga were were dead.

于是他们叫来了几个猎人。

So they called some hunters.

我记得他们叫了六个猎人。

I think there were six hunters they called.

他们来了之后，杀死了那只母熊和三只小熊。

They came in and killed the female and the three cubs.

所以最后，因为这次突如其来的遭遇，总共失去了六条生命。

So ultimately, there were six lives lost as a result of this surprise encounter.

真是太惨了。

So pretty pretty terrible.

是的。

Yeah.

太惨了。

Devastating.

确实。

It's one.

对。

Yeah.

真的是太惨了。

Just absolutely devastating.

我无法想象塔季扬娜要怎么才能从这件事里走出来。

I can't imagine, like, Tatiana, how she ever, you know, really comes back from that.

那真是让人难以承受的可怕经历。

That would be such a horrible thing to have to deal with.

但另一方面，知道确切发生了什么，有了一个了结，也许反而会有所帮助，而不是一直悬着。

But also in a way, like, to have that closure to to know exactly what happened, you know, in a way might help to rather than just like,

确实很难。

it's tough.

不知道。

Don't know.

是啊，就像你得花好几个星期才能在野外找到她们的尸体，你知道吗，我也不知道。

Yeah, like spending weeks before you like find their bodies out in the wilderness, you know, I don't know.

这确实很难办。

It's a tough one.

至少有机会跟她女儿说说话，或者听听她的声音。

The opportunity at least to speak or to hear from her daughter.

我是说，那就像……是啊。

I mean, that's like Yeah.

这是最糟糕的两种选择，必须二选一。

That's the two worst things to have to choose between.

我觉得最好还是不要，至少在你心里，至少……

I think it'd be better not to, like, at least see, like, have, I guess, in your mind, like, at least

她们死得很快之类的。

They died quickly or something.

她当时在经历那件事的时候，还能跟我说话。

She was able to, like, talk to me while she was going through that.

但是，就像

But, like

对。

Yeah.

那个

That

那个小小的声音会留在你脑海里。

little sound stay in your head.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

而且我确实觉得，至少她最后一次通话能让她得到一些安宁。

And I I do think, like, she had to get some peace from the last call at least.

至少她最后一次通话时，她女儿说的是“我不疼”。

Like, at least she got the last one where her daughter was like, I don't I'm not in pain.

我爱你，你知道吗？

I love you, you know?

对。

Yeah.

而不是最后一次通话是“它们在吃我”，那绝对是最糟糕的告别方式。

Rather than like the the last call being like, they're eating me, which would be the absolute worst note to end on.

但是

But

如果我是塔蒂亚娜，我会要求和那只熊谈谈，就像母亲对母亲那样。

If I were Tatiana, I would've asked to speak with the bear, like mother to mother.

让我接电话，让我接电话。

Put me on put me on the line.

对。

Yeah.

不过，这个故事对我来说有点奇怪，我怎么会选它来讲。

Anyway, this kind of feels like a weird one for me to pick for a story.

外面有很多故事。

It there are a lot of stories out there.

我最初选这个，是因为我觉得她在事发时还能给妈妈打电话，这很有意思。

And I there I think the reason I picked this initially is because I thought it was interesting that she was able to call her mom while this was happening.

我觉得我们从来没有遇到过有人能在事情发生时，向别人描述当时的情况。

I don't think we've ever had someone that has been able to kind of describe in the moment, you know, to someone else what's going on.

但这也是我中途才开始深入的一个故事。

But also, it was kind of one that I started down the path in midway.

我当时想，这太沉重了，但我觉得我们应该报道它，你知道吗？

I was like, oh, this is heavy, but I I feel like I should just we should report it, you know?

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我很高兴你做了。

I'm glad you did.

我觉得我们有很多关于英雄主义和成功脱险的故事，等等等等。

I think it's we've had we have so many stories of heroism and making it out, etcetera, etcetera.

但我觉得同样重要的是要有一个参照，就是说，这不仅仅是一个在一天结束时讲的有趣故事，大多数时候在这些遭遇中。

But I think it's important also to have the frame of reference that, like, this isn't just a fun story to be told at the end of the day most of the time in these encounters.

是的。

It's Yeah.

这是需要认真准备的事情，而且，是的，要记在心里。

Something to seriously prepare for and to, yeah, have in the back of mind.

这正是我接下来要说的。

That's exactly what I was about to get into.

我之所以想做这个，主要是因为，我读到的几乎所有关于这件事的报道都说，这些熊承受着很大的狩猎压力。

The main reason I wanted to do it is, like, almost everything I read about this one said, oh, well, there's a lot of hunting pressure on these bears.

你知道，那年的鲑鱼数量下降了。

The, you know, the salmon were down that year.

还有偷猎行为。

There's poaching happening.

还有资源开采。

There's resources extraction.

所有这些事情都在发生。

There's all these things happening.

而且据我所知，这只熊生活的环境相当原始。

And from what I understand from this one, I don't I think this bear was in pretty pristine habitat.

我觉得这只熊并不是处于压力之下。

I don't think this was a stressed out bear.

我不觉得她体重不足，或者有任何其他冲突因素导致这件事。

I don't think she was underweight or there were any kind of, like, conflicting factors that led to this.

这是一次近距离的意外遭遇，这确实突显了这些动物有多么不可预测。

This was a surprise encounter at close distance, and it really highlights how unpredictable these animals can be.

熊袭击人类并不需要其他因素。

It doesn't they don't there don't need to be other factors for a bear to maul a human being.

不需要像冰川国家公园的斯佩里贝壳或花岗岩公园小屋那样，连续好几个晚上喂它们，或者像特劳特湖那只熊那样。

There doesn't need to be, like, at the the Sperry Shell or the Granite Park Chalet in Glacier where they're feeding them, like, for nights and nights and nights and nights or the Trout Lake bear.

你懂吧？

You know?

我觉得唱反调的人会说，它带着三只幼崽。

I think the devil's advocate would be it had three cubs.

对。

Yeah.

我是说，这无疑是一个因素。

I mean, that's a factor without a doubt.

唱反调的人可能会说，它把幼崽吃了。

Like devil's advocate to that would be ate them.

所以这有点捕食性的。

So it's kind of predatory.

嗯，是的。

Well, yeah.

我本来想说的是，如果你要找出这次袭击的原因，那就是母熊带着幼崽时遭遇了意外。

And I was gonna talk about that that this is not if you were to put the reason for this attack, it would be a surprise encounter of a female with cubs.

然后我会说，她在消除了这些威胁之后，就趁机进食了。

And then I would say she opportunistically fed after she neutralized these threats.

这种情况确实有时会发生。

And that does happen sometimes.

不是每次都会这样，但更多时候不会，因为母熊通常只是想离开那个区域。

It doesn't always happen, but more often than not, it doesn't because the female's just trying to get out of the area.

但在那个地方，她解决了两个人之后，周围没有其他威胁，所以她随后吃掉这些人也不是没听说过的事。

But in this area where she neutralized both of them and then there's no other kind of surrounding threats, it like, it doesn't it's not unheard of that she would then feed on these people.

所以我不认为这次袭击是出于捕食动机。

So I don't I don't I really don't think this was motivated by predation.

我认为她是出于保护幼崽的动机，然后趁机吃了这两具尸体。

I think it was motivated by the desire to protect her cubs, and then she opportunistically fed on these two, essentially, carcasses.

如果你知道的话，北美灰熊、棕熊和俄罗斯的熊在行为上有什么区别？

What is the difference in behavior, if you know, between North American grizzly bears, brown bears, and Russian?

关于这个，数据上是不是有很大差别？

Is there vastly different data on, like okay.

其实，我觉得这些熊，特别是那些沿海的，你会以为它们的行为会像阿拉斯加的沿海棕熊一样。

So really, I mean, these bears, these coastal ones, you would think would act kinda like our coastal brown bears in Alaska.

所以有很多视频显示人们离这些熊很近，它们只是跑开。

So there's plenty of videos of people getting very close to these bears and them just running away.

但即使是一只非常容忍、吃得饱的棕熊，如果你在茂密的灌木丛里，它带着幼崽，你转过一个角落，突然出现在它旁边，它很可能会冲向你，因为它们就是不喜欢近距离的惊吓。

But even a really tolerant, well fed brown bear, if you are in thick brush and it has cubs and you come around a corner and you're right there next to it, there's a very good chance it's gonna come at you because they just don't like surprises at close distances.

这就像我经常引用的那篇论文，那是关于棕熊袭击的全球视角。

It's just that's like that paper that I constantly quote, that's a worldwide perspective of brown bear attacks.

绝大多数袭击都是从这种确切的情景开始的：母熊带着幼崽，然后遭遇惊吓。

By far, the most attacks start from this exact scenario, a female with cubs and a surprise encounter.

所以这里的教训是，无论你准备得多充分，无论熊有多容忍，无论你在户外有多少经验，如果你在棕熊出没的地方，你需要一个威慑物。

So the whole lesson here is that no matter how prepared you are, no matter how tolerant the bears are, no matter, you know, how much experience you have in the outdoors, you need a deterrent if you're in brown bear country.

就是需要。

You just do.

它能阻止它。

It can stop it.

我觉得伊戈尔可能活不下来，但奥尔加如果带了防熊喷雾，也许能活下来。

I don't think Igor would have survived this, but Olga might have had she had a deterrent.

当然。

Sure.

对。

Yeah.

一般来说，对于棕熊和熊崽，有没有哪个季节是母熊最护崽的时候？

With brown bear and bear cubs generally, is there a time of year that's their most the mothers are most protective?

比如，我……你可能明白我想问什么，但……对。

Like, I I'm maybe you're trying you understand what I'm trying to ask you, but like Yeah.

在遇到带崽母熊的情况下，是不是有一年之中相对更危险和相对更安全的时段？

Is there like a less safe as opposed to a more safe time of year when it comes to, like, running into mother bears with cubs?

其实没有。

Not really.

我觉得，小熊出生后的第一年，也就是它们被称为“当年幼崽”的时候，母熊会非常警惕。

They're like they're I would say the whole first year when their cubs are born, when they're called cubs of the year, they're pretty like the moms are pretty on edge.

到了第二年，它们就会稍微放手一些，让小熊们多探索一点，不像第一年那样时刻盯着。

The next year, I think they kind of let them wander a bit more, and they're not quite as, you know, like a helicopter mom.

但当小熊还小的时候，母熊会一直守在它们身边。

But when those cubs are small, the the moms tend to stay really close to them.

它们会非常具有防御性，因为小熊自己还没有任何自卫能力。

They tend to be very defensive, because they don't really have any kind of the cubs don't have their own defenses.

它们不像黑熊那样能快速爬上树。

They're not like black bears where they'll climb up a tree as fast.

在那个年纪，它们真的完全依赖妈妈来保护，而母熊也非常擅长保护自己的幼崽。

They they really rely on their mom to protect them at that age, and they're very good at protecting their cubs.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yeah.

就算它们在我们看来已经挺大了，你也得明白，这些妈妈们还在担心公灰熊之类的威胁。

Like, even once they seem pretty big to us, it's like, you gotta realize these moms are worried about male grizzly bears and stuff.

对。

Right.

就是，对。

Like Right.

是的。

Yeah.

它们必须得这样，没错。

They have to say Yeah.

它们就像迈克，当你想去……

They're like Mike when you try to

吃他的千层面。

Eat his lasagna.

偷吃他的千层面。

Steal his eat his lasagna.

你离我的千层面远点。

You come from my lasagna.

你，你真是，老兄。

You you show, man.

你早该知道的。

You should have known.

你妈妈那时候还没去世呢。

Your mom hadn't passed away yet.

所以当时我想吃一点也是合理的。

So it was reasonable at the time that I wanted some of that.

你走进厨房，就站在那儿。

Came into the kitchen and kinda just stood there.

你连问都不问。

You didn't even ask.

你想让我主动分你一点千层面吗？

You want me just to offer you some of this lasagna?

这是很正常的事。

That's a normal thing to do.

不。

No.

不是的。

It's not.

对。

Yeah.

那千层面其实没多少。

It was not that much lasagna.

真的不多。

It's not much.

就一份的量。

It's one servings worth.

是四份。

It's four.

不会吧，老兄。

No way, dude.

我还留着他给我做的那个小玻璃烤盘。

I still have the little glass, little casserole dish he made it for me.

我要给大家看看。

I'll show it to everybody.

那会是我第一次在Instagram上发帖。

That would be my first ever post on Instagram.

韦斯，有件事我一直记在心里，想聊聊。

One thing stuck in my brain, Wes, I wanna talk about.

我们之前简单聊过神童。

So we're talking just briefly about prodigies earlier.

有没有所谓的神童熊崽？

Is there such a thing as a prodigy bear cub?

有没有那种从小就显得特别会当熊的熊崽？

Is there are there bear cubs that are just like obviously better at being bears from a young age?

据我所知没有。

Not that I know of.

你从来没见过那种天生就动作更灵活、爬得更快的？

You haven't ever seen one that's just, like, moves better, climbs faster?

就像刚出生的小熊，出去

It's, like, brand new, and it goes out

然后直接

and just

抓到最大的三文鱼。

catches the biggest salmon.

没有。

No.

我是说，肯定有那种天才熊妈妈，我觉得。

I mean, there are definitely, like, prodigy bear moms, I think.

我觉得有些母熊就是特别会保护幼崽，确保它们安全。

I think there are, like, female bears that are just really good at protecting their cubs and keeping them safe.

比如，三九九就因这个出名。

Like, three ninety nine was famous for that.

她真的很擅长抚养幼崽。

She was just really good at raising her cubs.

但我不太清楚幼崽的情况。

But I don't know about cubs.

那是个

That's a

好问题。

good question.

也许，就像黑猩猩那样，它们总是在打字机上写作。

Maybe, like, for chimpanzees, like, where they're always writing on typewriters.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

那只猩猩能写出莎士比亚的作品。

That one writes Shakespeare

或者类似的。

or something.

就这么干。

Doing that.

对。

Yeah.

就是那一只。

It's just that one.

对。

Yeah.

你只需要找到那一只。

You just gotta find that one.

哈罗德·布鲁姆，猩猩。

Herald Bloom, chimp.

好的。

Alright.

所以，最后讲这个故事的一个理由是，我读到的很多资料都说，比如，有一只熊在跟踪他们，一只捕食性的熊，之类的。

So the last, like, kind of justification for doing this story is a lot of the stuff I read said like, you know, a bear that was stalking them, a predatory bear, whatever.

但这里不是这种情况。

That's not the case here.

我真的不这么认为。

I really don't think so.

我们之前提到过，这是一只防御性的熊。

We mentioned this already, but this is a defensive bear.

它并不是出于捕食动机。

This was not one that was motivated by predation.

所以我要几乎肯定地这么说。

So I'm gonna say that almost like definitively.

我会留一点点余地，比如，它也可能是出于捕食动机。

There's I'll leave the tiniest room for like, could have been motivated motivated by predation.

但我真的不觉得是这样。

But I really don't think that was the case.

不可能，兄弟。

No way, dude.

你要么就下结论，要么就不下，韦斯。

You put your stamp on it or you don't, Wes.

二选一。

It's one or the other.

好吧。

Alright.

那我就下结论了。

I'm stamping it then.

好吧。

Alright.

这是防御性熊袭击。

It's defensive bear attack.

好的。

Okay.

那故事就到这里了。

So that's it for the story.

你们对奥尔加和伊戈尔的死有什么问题吗？

You guys have any questions about the deaths of Olga and Igor?

迈克，你有特别喜欢的奇才吗？

Mike, do you have a favorite prodigy?

就是那种，神童？

Like, a child prodigy?

神童？

Child prodigy?

奇才。

Prodigy.

是的。

Yeah.

我刚想说神童来着。

Was gonna say prodigy.

对。

Yeah.

乐队神童。

A band prodigy.

《Firestarter》。

Firestarter.

太棒了。

So so good.

也许是基思。

Maybe Keith.

弗雷迪也差不多。

Freddie a do.

他大概七岁就被美国职业足球大联盟看中了，但后来好像也没那么厉害。

He was, like, seven and he's getting scouted by the MLS and stuff, and then he just, like, wasn't that good.

韦斯，你有一个。

Wes, you got one.

神童？

A child prodigy?

对。

Yeah.

杜奇·豪瑟？

Doogie Howser?

医生。

Doctor

杜奇·豪瑟。

Doogie Howser.

这个选得好。

That's a great pick.

鲍比·费舍尔。

Bobby Fisher.

这个我要了。

That's gonna be mine.

鲍比。

Bobby.

哦，选得好。

Oh, that's a good pick.

对。

Yeah.

我想不出什么，比如，有一个是

I don't I can't think of any, like, one was

一个搞笑的。

a funny one.

他肯定

He must

屁股里塞过好多振动棒，兄弟。

have had so many vibrators in his butt, dude.

那个在WNBA选秀中排名第一的女孩，佩奇·贝克斯什么的。

The girl who just went number one in the WNBA, Paige Buckters or something.

对，就是她。

The yeah.

有一段大概十二年前的视频，她当时还在打七年级的篮球比赛，视频里就说她会成为WNBA的状元秀。

There's a there's a clip of someone, like, twelve years ago when she was like playing like seventh grade basketball that's like she's gonna be the number one pick in the WNBA.

她确实是的。

She's gonna yeah.

他当时说得真准。

It's a good call by him.

那挺酷的。

That's cool.

说实话，我对年轻的勒布朗也有这种感觉。

That's kinda how I feel about young LeBron too honestly.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

他也兑现了。

He lived out too.

对。

Yeah.

某种程度上像格蕾塔·通贝里。

Greta Thunberg in a way.

我也不确定。

I don't know.

对。

Yeah.

她还在做她的事。

She's still doing her thing.

对。

Yeah.

但她确实还在坚持自己的事业。

But she is still doing her thing.

干得好，格蕾塔。

Good good on you, Greta.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

那我们接下来进入分类环节。

So we'll move on to categories.

第一个分类是最近让你特别特别开心的事情，因为我想稍微活跃一下气氛。

First category is something that makes you really, really happy lately because I just wanna bring up the mood a little bit.

我可以先说。

I can go first.

对。

I Yeah.

我超喜欢好吃的芝士蛋糕冰淇淋。

I love a good cheesecake ice cream.

就像夏天吃冰淇淋一样，吃的时候很难不开心。

Like ice cream in the summer, it's hard not to be happy when you're eating it.

对。

Yeah.

而且我上次吃芝士蛋糕冰淇淋的时候，我觉得自己好像已经跟不上这个潮流了。

And the last time I had cheesecake in it, I know I would kinda, like, fallen off the cheesecake ice cream trend.

我当时想，我应该再试一次。

I was like, I should try this again.

挺不错的，对。

Pretty good Yeah.

你知道吗？

Do you know what?

你刚才让我真的很不开心。

You've just made me really unhappy right there.

所以谢谢你让我难受。问题是这样的。

So thanks for biting Here's me the thing.

我总听说，有时候人年纪大了，可能会发展出乳糖不耐受。

I've always heard so like sometimes later on in life, you can develop a lactose intolerance.

我觉得我现在就是这样了。

I think that's happening to me.

每次吃那个，我都觉得有点不舒服，还会有点浮肿。

Like, every time I eat it, I feel a little bad and I get a little puffy.

而且真的很像……可能

And it's really like It might

我也开始这样了，而且

be happening to me too on It

真烦，因为我从来对什么都没过敏过。

sucks because I've never been allergic to anything.

我从来没有过任何饮食限制。

I've never had any kind of like dietary restrictions.

然后突然之间，就有这么一大类食物，我现在下意识地避开，而这些是我一辈子都爱吃的。

And then all of a sudden, there's like this whole category of food I'm kind of like, now at this point subconsciously avoiding that I've loved my whole life.