杜兰·琼斯–我爱音乐

嘿。

yo.

但我会说，对我来说，聪明的头脑简直太有魅力了。

But I will say, A Brilliant Mind to me is so damn sexy.

但有时候我感觉自己完全是无性恋。

But sometimes I feel absolutely asexual.

就像，我不想和任何人在一起。

Like, I don't wanna be with anyone.

当然。

Sure.

我还在不断探索和发现真实的自己。

And I'm still grappling with that and discovering who I am every day.

有时候我觉得，也许我是泛性恋。

Sometimes I'm like, maybe I'm pansexual.

有时候看到跨性别男性或跨性别女性，我会想，天啊，他们真的太有魅力了。

Sometimes I see a trans man or a trans woman, I'm like, damn, they are fine as hell.

当然。

Sure.

但我从未约会过非二元性别的人。

But I've never dated a non binary person before.

所以对我来说，还有很多需要探索的地方。

So there's a lot for me to discover still.

我正在成长。

I'm becoming.

是的。

Yeah.

你现在有伴侣吗？

Are you in a relationship now?

没有。

No.

好的。

Okay.

所以你现在可以自由地成长。

So you're free to become.

是的。

Yes.

对，对，对。

Yes, yes, yes.

我目前的关系是与音乐。

My relationship right now is with music.

而《I Want You on the Record》这首歌讲的就是这个。

And that's what the song I Want You on the Record is about.

我 literally 把所有的关系、每一段亲密关系都放到了一边，专注于我的事业。

I have literally put every relation, every intimate relationship aside for my career.

这一直是我想得非常强烈的事情，也许太强烈了，我不知道。

It's been something that I've wanted so badly, maybe too badly, I don't know.

但我真的渴望并向往与音乐的这段关系。

But I really desire and long for that relationship with music.

等我从音乐中实现了我想得到的东西后，也许我会再开始约会。

And then once I achieve what I want from that, maybe I'll go dating again.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

你能从音乐中感受到你的这种情绪吗？

Do you see the way you feel in the music?

你能看到这部分的你融入到音乐里了吗？

Do you see that part of you coming into the music?

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

因为我听音乐时并不会说，哦，这是位酷儿艺术家，这是位灵魂乐艺术家。

Because I don't listen to the music and say, oh, this is a queer artist, this is a soul music artist.

我听到的是黑人特质，我听到的是男性特质。

I hear the blackness, I hear the maleness.

也许别人会说：嗯，我听出来了，但就是这样，对吧？

Maybe somebody else will be like, well, I hear it, but it, right?

所以，但你却说：不，所有这些都包含在内。

So, but you're like, no, it's all in there.

对我来说，这些都在里面，是的。

It's in there for me, yeah.

这张专辑非常个人化。

And this record right here was such a personal one.

我制作它的时候并没有意识到，但它实际上就像一次心理治疗，因为我把当时所有让我痛苦的事情都倾注其中，通过脆弱来疗愈并找到力量，这对我来说是一段非常美好的过程。

I didn't realize it when I was doing it, but it honestly was like a therapy session because I was taking all of these traumatizing things to me at the time and really working through them and finding strength through vulnerability, which has been a really beautiful process for me.

等等，

Now wait,

我们来聊聊这张专辑的制作过程吧。

wanna talk about the making of this record.

是的。

Yeah.

但首先，你在一个乐队里，而这张是个人专辑，我一直很好奇，当你对乐队成员说‘我知道我是乐队的主唱和领导者，但这次我要做一张个人专辑’的时候，是什么时候？

But first, you are in a group, and this is a solo record, and I always wonder, so what is the moment when you say to the guys, So I know I'm the front man and the leader of the group, but this one I'm gonna do solo.

对吧？

Right?

他们会不会说：‘天啊，真的吗？’

And are they like, oh, man, really?

还是他们会说：‘好，去吧’

Or are they like, yeah, go for

但天啊，你有点把我们甩在后面了。

it, but damn, you're kinda leaving us behind.

我非常感谢你提出这个问题。

I appreciate this question a lot.

说实话，当时我的心情是复杂的。

It was a bit of mixed feelings, truthfully.

我的另一位乐队成员亚伦·弗雷泽，大约在一年前发行了一张个人专辑，我觉得他稍微打开了潘多拉的盒子。老实说，当他从这个过程中回来时，身上多了一种自信。

My other bandmate, Aaron Fraser, he dropped a solo record maybe about a year or so before and I feel like he opened Pandora's Box a little bit, which honestly, when he came back from that process, he had this sense of confidence about him.

他身上有一种全新的、非常特别的东西。

He had this new something newly developed that felt very special.

我经常对他说，坐在你旁边，我能感受到你身上的热情，我也想要那种感觉。

I would tell him like, sitting next to you, can feel the fire And I kinda wanted that too.

而与Indications乐队合作的过程非常协作，我必须学会不把它当回事，学会接受‘不行’。

And so with working with the Indications, was such a collaborative process and I had to learn that, to not take it personally, to hear no.

比如，不行，这不是我们想要的风格，不行，我们不会这么做，诸如此类。

Like, no, this is not the aesthetic, no, this is not what we're gonna do, whatever, whatever.

但我一直想知道，如果我走进录音室，想做什么就做什么，会怎么样？

But I wanted to know like, okay, what if I could go into the studio and just do whatever the hell I wanted to do?

因此，我内心强烈渴望去尝试一下，去放手一搏。

And so it really burned in me to give it a shot and to go for it.

当我告诉他们我想这么做时，他们只是说：‘好的，是啊，挺酷的。’

When I told the guys that I wanted to do it, they were just like, okay, yeah, cool.

当我向他们展示我正在做的东西时，他们说：‘哇，你真的抓住重点了。’

And once I shared with them what I was working on, they were like, woah, okay, you're onto something here.

所以总的来说，他们一直挺鼓励我的。

So they've been pretty encouraging for the most part.

不过还是有点怨气。

Little resentment though.

我听说有位Indications团队的人告诉我，我犯了个大错。

There's been, I've heard someone on the indications team told me that I was making a huge mistake.

哇。

Wow.

但我根本不在乎。

And I didn't care.

我知道这是我真正必须去做的事情。

I knew that this was something that I really needed to do, something that I had to do.

所以他无法阻止我。

So he wasn't gonna deter me from that.

但这些会不会导致团队解散呢？

But are these the sorts of things that lead to a group breaking up?

比如，那些小小的怨恨，或者那个人明显心存不满，而你可能也对他有这样的想法感到不满。

Like, you know, like little resentments or have like, maybe that person clearly feels some resentment, and you may feel resentment that he said and felt that way.

如果你们重新聚在一起，也许吧，我会看着你这边，看着你，对吧？

And if y'all come back together, maybe like, yeah, I'm looking at you side, I'm looking at you, right?

然后这种感觉就慢慢发展成对别人本质的看法，对吧？

And it just sort of develops in what other people are about, right?

也就是说，这是否就是事情发生的方式之一？

Like, is that kind of part of how it happens?

这正是心理治疗的作用所在，伙计。

That's what therapy's for, dawg.

懂吗？

Know?

团体治疗？

Group therapy?

是的。

Yes.

你们都这么做吗？

Y'all do that?

是的。

Yes.

真的吗？

Really?

我强烈建议每个乐队都这么做。

Which I highly recommend every band to do.

等等。

Wait.

你们五个都在。

It's five of y'all.

是的。

Yes.

你们会作为一个团队一起去见同一位治疗师吗？

And you go as a group to see one specific therapist?

是的。

Yes.

每月一次吗？

Monthly?

我们尽量每月一次，但由于大家的日程各不相同，有时也会灵活调整。

We try monthly, but with all of our varying schedules, it depends from time to time.

这带来了巨大的改变。

And it's made a huge difference.

哦，到目前为止，是的，简直太棒了。

Oh, so far, yes, incredible.

有时候是一对一的，比如两位乐队成员一起倾诉一些心事，有时候是三个人，有时团队里的人也会加入，有时则是整个乐队一起。

And I mean, sometimes it's one on one, it's like two bandmates grieving some things out and sometimes it's three, sometimes someone from the team may join and sometimes full band.

所以这真的非常棒，而且收益极大。

So it's been really awesome and super beneficial.

我非常感激能有一群愿意和我一起做这种事的伙伴。

And I'm so thankful that I have a group of guys who are willing and down to do something like that with me.

你不必说出任何具体的人名，但有没有什么从治疗中得出的、帮助团队继续前进的教训？

Well, not you don't have to name any specific individuals, but like a lesson that came out of therapy that helped the group continue to move forward.

我认为是我们彼此对对方的期望，以及我们从这个团体中想要得到什么。

I think what our expectations are of each other and what we want out of the group.

对我们许多人来说，我觉得我们当时觉得：这是我的机会，这是我的时刻，我不能让任何人搞砸了。

For many of us, I think we felt like, okay, this is my shot, this is my opportunity, I can't let anybody mess this up.

但与此同时，带着这种心态，你实际上忽略了身边的人，你的合作者，

Meanwhile, in doing so with that mindset, you kind of dismiss everyone around you, your collaborators,

你的乐手们，你的团队成员。

your musicians, your folks.

所以学会解开这种心态，是非常美好且极具益处的。

And so learning to unpack that has been super beautiful and super beneficial.

是的。

Yeah.

太神奇了。

It's amazing.

确实应该有更多团体这么做。

There's definitely more groups should do that.

我听说过一些团体就是这样做的。

I've heard of some groups that do that.

我跟一个团体聊过，他们说：是的，我们在接受治疗。

I talked to a group that was like, yeah, we're in therapy.

带来了巨大的

Made a huge

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

对。

Yeah.

太棒了。

It's awesome.

真的太棒了。

Really awesome.

所以，好吧，你可以自由地进入工作室做任何你想做的事。

So, okay, you have the freedom to go into the studio to do whatever you want.

当你拥有完全的自由时，你是如何创作音乐的？

How do you go about making music when you have complete freedom?

天啊，我想要有概念，我想让作品

Man, I wanted to have concepts, I wanted it to be

以艺术为导向。

art forward.

我想尝试一些我以前从未有机会尝试的东西，这就需要我找到愿意和我一起跃入深渊的音乐人。

I wanted to try things that I never gotten the opportunity to try before and so that required me to find musicians who were willing to step off the cliff and dive into the deep end with me.

我非常感谢那些愿意让我带领他们进入深渊的朋友们。

And I'm so thankful for the guys that were willing to let me lead them into the abyss.

我邀请了所有我非常钦佩的艺术家，但他们都不是音乐领域的。

I brought all of these artists that I really admired, non music artist.

因为我希望我们受到的启发来自那些不那么直白的事物。

Because I wanted us to be influenced by things not so literal.

我希望在这个录音过程中，隐喻能够非常突出。

I wanted the metaphor to be huge in the recording process for this.

于是我们准备了这些文件夹，里面装着格伦·莱贡的印刷作品，还有尼克·凯夫的声效服装。

And so we had these binders with prints from Glen Ligon and these sound suits from this guy, his name is Nick Cave.

有

There

我们还有特蕾西塔·费尔南德斯的壁画，以及安娜·巴克纳那些绝妙的拼贴画，这些画作扭曲、拉伸、流动，充满一种模糊而非常酷的氛围。

was We had like these murals from Teresita Fernandez and these quilt paintings, which are absolutely fabulous by this artist, Anna Buckner, where they just contort and stretch and move and really have this amorphous vibe about them that feels really, really, really cool.

我还带了一些书进来，比如托妮·莫里森的《苏拉》、詹姆斯·鲍德温的著作、远野小野的《葡萄柚》、弗雷德·莫滕的一些诗作、妮基·乔万尼和克劳迪娅·兰金的诗歌。

And I brought some books in, Toni Morrison, Sula, James Baldwin, just above my head, Yoko Ono, Grapefruit, some Fred Moten poems, some Nikki Giovanni poems, some Claudia Rankine poems.

我们没有把音乐当作参考，而是以这些艺术作品为灵感来源。

And instead of like listening to music as references, we looked at this art for reference.

所以，我不会说‘我希望这段旋律听起来像詹姆斯·布朗’，而是会说：‘我希望这段节奏的律动要像安娜·巴克纳的拼贴画那样流动’，或者我们会观看尼克·凯夫的声效服装的运动，然后说：‘听那木头的震动，这就是我们在这个段落中需要的感觉。’

So instead of being like, I want this group to feel like James Brown, I would say like, I want this groove to move in the shape that this Anna Buckner quote painting moves or I wanted to, or we would watch the Nick Cave sound suits moving and I'd be like, hear how that wood is moving, that's what we need in this essence, in this context.

这样做真是太有趣了，绝对如此。

And that was so much fun to do, absolutely.

我很喜欢你为音乐创作引入这些非音乐性的灵感来源。

I love that you brought these non musical things for inspiration for music.

这太棒了。

That's amazing.

能谈谈莫里森、鲍德温和利根是如何影响你们的创作的吗？

Talk about a little bit about how Morrison and Baldwin and Ligon influenced things.

天哪。

Oh, man.

托尼的坦诚，以及她直击本质、摒弃浮华的能力，让我深受启发。

Tony's honesty, ability to cut the fluff and get right into the visceral, It's inspirational to me.

尤其是《苏拉》这本书，深深触动了我，它探讨了不忠与自由的主题。书中开篇有这样一段话，她描述了一些人在跳舞，而一些白人正在旁观。

And particularly the book Sula, really resonated with me, just on the lines of infidelity and freedom and this There's like these lines at the beginning of the book where she's talking about how there's these people who are dancing and some white folks are watching.

那些白人虽然享受着舞蹈，却看不到他们眼下的疲惫。

And the white folks are like enjoying it but they don't see the bags under their eyes.

他们不知道背后所承受的痛苦，以及这一切背后所付出的种种，这让我想起了希拉里维尔。

They don't the They don't know the pain in the back or all these different things of what it took and that reminded me so much of Hillaryville.

因此，我从中学到了很多灵感。

And so I really took some inspiration from that.

詹姆斯·鲍德温的《就在我的头顶之上》这本书，从我小时候起就一直摆在我祖母家里，我对此感到非常惊讶，因为这是一本如此具有同性恋主题的书。

James Baldwin with Just Above My Head, that book was in my grandmother's house my entire life and I'm so surprised by it because it's such a queer book.

他在这本书中将福音音乐与同性恋身份联系起来，简直太天才了。

It's insane how he correlates gospel to queerness in the book, it's genius.

而且

And

我是在祖母去世后才读了这本书。

I didn't grab the book until after my grandmother passed.

我真希望能和她聊聊这本书。

I wish I could have talked to her about this book.

你会怎么看待这本书呢？

It's like, what did you think about this?

它就摆在书架上，所以我想她一定很爱这本书，留着它一定有原因。

It was like right there on a bookshelf, so I mean she must have loved it, she kept it for a reason.

我记得在巡演时拿起这本书，在货车后座的最里面读着，每一页都让我泪流满面，嚎啕大哭。

And I remember grabbing that book and reading it on a tour and sitting in the back of the back of the back of the van and just crying, just bawling and crying like every page.

它让我感觉像是自己内心的一部分，因此詹姆斯永远是我的导师，他真正让我明白：如果你想表达你的酷儿身份，就通过艺术去做。

It felt like a little piece of my personal self and for that James will always be a mentor of mine and he really showed me, okay, want to express your queer identity, do it through art.

这对我来说是一个巨大的启发。

And that was a real huge proponent for me.

格伦·利贡，他那些惊人的印刷作品，会从一些文字开始，比如佐拉·尼尔·赫斯顿的名言之类的。

Glenn Ligon, man, he had these amazing prints where he would start with some text, like a Zora Neale Hurston quote or something.

随着页面往下，文字会越来越模糊、模糊、模糊。

And as the page goes down, the text would just get muddled and muddled and muddled.

我觉得这种表现方式非常有感染力，也很有音乐性，我想在音乐中也这样表达：我会从一段旋律开始，不断深化，直到最后变成情感的喧嚣，你懂吗？

I found that to be so expressive and quite musical and I wanted to express that in music where I like, I'll start with the melody and really develop it until it's a cacophony of emotions towards the end, you know?

所以我真的努力去这么做。

And so I really try to that.

他还有另一幅作品，上面写着‘我是一个人’，你知道我说的是哪幅吧？

He also has this print with the I am a man, you know what I'm talking about?

当然知道。

Absolutely.

是的，那是我最喜爱的艺术作品之一，他专门挑选了所有那些细小的瑕疵点。

Yes, that's one of my favorite pieces of art, where he just like picks all the little imperfection spots.

作为一名艺术家，我过去一直有这种感受。

I've always felt that way as an artist in the past.

某种程度上，我曾经害怕或极力想满足他人的期望，而不是遵从自己的内心。看到他的作品对我意义重大，也给了我极大的启发，让我更加确信，我必须拥抱真实的自己，包括所有的不完美。

In a way, guess, afraid or really trying to meet other people's expectations other than my own and seeing that was really important for me and super inspirational kind of reinforced to me that I really need to embrace who I am within myself, imperfections and all.

所以你现在就在那里，有了某种灵感。

So you're in there, you have some piece of inspiration.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道自己想去往何方。

You know where you wanna go.

是节奏先出现吗？

Is it the rhythm first?

是旋律先出现吗？

Is it the melody first?

我们是先进入声音，然后再加入歌词和歌词吗？

Do we go into the the sound and then bring in the words and the lyrics?

你是怎么做的？

How do you do it?

天啊。

Man.

我多年来一直独自在钢琴上创作这些曲子，边弹边唱。

So I've been work I was working on these tunes for years and years, just on piano piano and singing.

起初我以为这些作品可以配合那些提示，但后来我意识到，不行，这行不通。

At first I thought maybe these could live with the Indications, but then I realized, nah, that's not gonna be the case.

当我决定进录音室深入制作这些作品时，我没有给乐队任何预设的期望。

And upon wanting to go into the studio and dive into these, I didn't give the band any expectations.

我给了他们我弹钢琴并演唱的样带，但我们只是一起走进录音棚，真正去摸索出结果。

I gave them my demos of me on piano and singing, but we kind of just walked into the studio together to really figure it out.

所以我们直接就投入进去了，说实话。

So we just jumped right on in, honestly.

我非常感激他们让我主导整个进程。

And I was, I really, really appreciate them letting me steer the ship.

我可以告诉他们：这个不行，我们需要加快节奏，或者放慢一点，这个律动有点奇怪，有点不对劲，但同时也允许他们尝试各种想法。

I could tell them, this isn't working or we need to speed this up, we need to slow this down, this groove is a little weird, it's a little wonky, but also allowing them to try things.

在录音过程中，我始终反复强调的一点是：没有哪个想法是坏的。

One thing I always, one thing I really tried to reiterate in that studio process was that no idea was a bad one.

我们都会尝试每个人提出的每一个想法。

We would try every any idea that anyone had.

所以，是的，我们带着开放的心态进入创作，没有预先设定一定要从某个律动开始，看看会怎样。

And so, yeah, just went in went into it with an open mind, not necessarily thinking, I'm gonna start with this groove here and see how this works out.

我只是直接投入到歌曲中，不管大家脑子里有什么想法，我真的很希望保留这种即兴感。

Know, just jumped right into the tunes, whatever was in folks' heads, I really wanted that sporadicness.

我希望我们能像维克多·伍滕说的那样演奏，他说：‘一个孩子玩空气吉他时，永远不会弹错音。’

I wanted us to play, Victor Wooten has this quote like, a kid playing air guitar never misses any notes.

我真的希望我们能以那种方式演奏，因为我觉得

And I really wanted us to play in that way, cause I

这可能是最自由的演奏方式。

feel like that's the freest way to go.

你们真的在演奏这些歌曲吗？

Are you really playing the songs?

是现场录音，还是拼接的片段？

Like is it a live recording or is it pieces?

是现场录音。

It's live.

是的。

Yeah.

这对我来说是以前任何一张专辑都没能做到的事。

Which is something that I never got to do with any album.

过去，通常是乐器部分或轨道先录，鼓手先完成，然后贝斯和吉他再加入，接着是键盘，最后才是人声录制。

In the past, it would be like the instrumentals or track, the drummer would do his thing and then the bass and guitar would come on and the keys and then you have like your vocal day.

这次我不想这样做了。

I didn't wanna do that this time around.

我研究了我所有钟爱的音乐人，比如戴安娜·沃里克、伯特·巴卡拉克和哈尔·戴维，他们是如何让庞大的管弦乐团伴奏，而她稳居中心，所有人同时录制同一遍的。

I looked at all of my favorite musicians like Dionne Warwick, you know, Bert Bakarak and Hal David, how they would have that huge orchestra and she'd be dead in the center and like, everyone's taking the take together.

或者艾瑞莎·弗兰克林在穆斯尔肖斯，又或者奥蒂斯·雷丁在Stax的录音。

Or Aretha Franklin at Muscle Shoes or Otis Redding at Stax.

他们和乐队一起在房间里现场录制。

They were in the room live with the band.

是的。

Yeah.

这正是我想做的。

And that's what I wanted to do.

你们是完整地从头到尾演奏整首歌，还是分段录制？

And are you playing the song all the way through or are you like All the way through.

哇。

Wow.

对。

Yeah.

起初我们以为，杜兰德会进房间，和乐队一起现场演唱这些歌曲，然后我们再重新录人声。

And at first we thought, okay, Durand's gonna come in and come in the room and do the do these songs live with the band, and then we'll redo the vocals.

但人声实在太完美了，就在那里，所以我们保留了它们。

But the vocals were just so spot on and so they were just there that we kept them.

因为你们是在进行一场表演，而不是别的什么，对吧？

And because you're in a performance rather than something else, right?

有更多的能量，对吧？

There's more, there's more energy, right?

是的，非常有情感，而且那些创意是最美妙的部分。

Yes, it was so emotional and also the ideas, that was like the most beautiful part.

我脑子里灵光一现，随性创作，完全没有预谋，就是哇，那是什么？

I was coming up with things right free on the mind, like it wasn't premeditated, was just like, woah, what was that?

我真的很喜欢那个。

I really liked that.

而且它被录了下来，所以整个过程真的非常自由、非常放松。

And it was recorded and so it was just like, it was a really, really, really freeing thing to do.

哇，哇。

Wow, wow.

所以你们当时是现场演奏，通常要录多少遍？

So you're there, we're doing it live, how many takes does it take normally?

想到《Lord Have Mercy》这首歌，

Man, thinking of Lord Have Mercy,

我们直接一口气演奏了大约四十五分钟之类的。

we played that song straight for like forty five minutes or something like that.

我们一遍又一遍地循环演奏，我想我们大概录了八遍，直到我实在撑不住了，头都快炸了。

We just looped it around and around and around and I'd say maybe we took like eight takes of it, we took it until I was like, I can't do it anymore, I'm getting a headache.

其他歌曲可能只录三四遍，然后挑出感觉最好的那一版，但有时候也需要花点时间琢磨。

With other tunes, it took maybe three or four takes, but, and just picking the best one, the one that felt right, but it took a little figuring out sometimes.

然后有时候我们不得不暂停并重新开始。

And then sometimes we had to pause and start over again.

但总的来说，我觉得平均下来大概是三到四次。

But yeah, I would say somewhere around three or four on average.

是的。

Yeah.

哇。

Wow.

为什么大家不都那样做呢？

Why didn't everybody do it like that?

我觉得是因为很难。

I think because it's hard.

是什么让它更难了？

What makes it harder?

你的压力会更大一点，必须时刻保持警觉。

You are more the pressure's on a little bit more to be on top of your toes.

因为如果你犯了错或搞砸了，乐队并不会停下来，你必须继续下去。

Because if you make a mistake or mess up, it's not like the band is gonna stop and you gotta keep going.

所以我觉得压力在于，我得一次性完整地录好这段，让它听起来很棒。

And so I think the pressure is really of like, okay, I have a full take to really nail this and make it sound good.

所以如果你犯了错，会停下来还是继续录下去？

So if you made a mistake, would you stop or would you just keep going?

大部分情况下，我们会继续录下去。

For the most part, we would keep going.

如果有什么特别明显的错误，或者有人觉得‘我耳朵受不了那个音符’，我们可能会在这里或那里做点剪辑，但我们真的尽量保留每个人完整的录音版本。

And maybe if something was really blatant or someone was like, ah, that note I played there is really offensive to my ears, we would make some edit here or there, but we really tried to take everyone's, like, full takes of of the record.

哇。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

这简直太了不起了。

It's kind of amazing.

谢谢。

Thanks.

回到刚才那个话题，大家一起在同一间房间里演奏。

To take it back to that, like, performing together all in the same room.

是的。

Yeah.

哇。

Wow.

我觉得人们并没有意识到这种情况有多少见。

I I don't think folks realize how infrequent that is.

因为我们在电影里看到的，几乎都是那样拍的。

Because when we see it in movies, that's pretty much how they do it most of the time.

对。

Yeah.

但很多时候

But a lot of times

情况并非如此。

That's not the case.

完全不是。

At all.

房间，他们发给了M，他们发给了M P三，

The room, they sent to m they sent to m p three,

发邮件了。

emailed it.

好的。

Okay.

发回来。

Send it back.

好的。

Okay.

没错。

Exactly.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

所以，没错，知道我能像我的偶像那样做，真的让我感到非常肯定。

So, yeah, it was really affirming for me to know that I could do it the way my heroes did it.

当然了。

Hell, yeah.

等等。

So wait.

那你怎么写作呢？

So how do you write?

我从写诗开始。

I start with poetry.

我真得感谢我爸爸。

I really have to thank my dad for that.

他是个典型的沉默寡言的乡下人。

He's such a stoic country man.

他平时几乎不怎么说话，但每次教堂有活动或者其他场合时，他都会站起来吟诵一些非常优美的诗，这总是让我惊讶不已：这个充满情感的人是从哪儿冒出来的？

Like he don't say much or anything really and it always blew my mind away that when there would be like a program at church or whatever, he would get up and say these like really beautiful poems and I'm like, where's this emotional man coming from?

因为我在家里根本看不到这样的他。

Because I definitely don't see this at home.

这种艺术天赋到底是从哪儿来的？

Like where's this artistry coming from?

所以我真的觉得我对诗歌的热爱是来自他，因此我写诗时通常不会给自己设任何规则。

And so I really feel like I got a love of poetry from him and so usually I would just I don't give myself any rules when I'm writing poetry.

有时候我甚至会自创词语，只要它们对我有意义，或者能打动我。

Sometimes I even make up words, if it if it means something to me or if it's or if it's like grabbing me.

然后我会挑出最喜爱的几句，以此为基础，发展出类似A B A B C这样的结构，视情况而定。

And from there, I take the lines that I like the most and work with those to develop some kind of A B, A B C, whatever the case may be.

但你是在为自己歌唱、为自己写作，对吧？

But you're singing, you're writing for yourself, right?

你有在考虑听众吗？想做出一首热门歌曲，想与人产生共鸣，但你却说：我必须真心喜欢它。

Are you thinking about the audience, wanna make a hit, we wanna connect with people, you're like, I gotta love it.

我以前做过那种为了走红而创作的事，

I've done the let's make

但这些东西对我来说都是个人情感的表达。

a hit thing in the past, but with this stuff, this was all personal for me.

是的。

Yeah.

深深地。

Deeply.

是的。

Yeah.

看到我个人的经历也能给听众带来疗愈和帮助，这真的非常非常棒。

It's been really really really cool seeing how something personal for me is also healing and beneficial for the listeners.

是的，分享你真实的心灵和精神是如此自由，是的。

Yeah, it's so liberating to share a part of your real heart and spirit Yeah.

让人们接受并拥抱它。

And have people accept it and embrace it.

是的，当然。

Yeah, definitely.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

当然。

Definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

接下来是什么？

What's next?

接下来是什么？

What's next?

天啊，我打算带着这个项目踏上旅程，现在感觉自己就像是希拉里维尔的使者了。

Oh man, I'm just gonna hit the road on this project and I feel like an ambassador of Hillaryville now.

所以我将继续讲述这个地方的故事。

And so I'm gonna keep telling the story about this place.

在我大半生里，希拉里维尔都被甘蔗田环绕，但慢慢地，甘蔗田正逐渐变成住宅区。

Hillaryville surrounded by sugarcane for most of my life, but slowly and surely the sugarcane fields are turning into subdivisions.

这些住宅区非常豪华、漂亮，却包围着这个贫穷的黑人小社区，导致房产税上涨。

And these subdivisions are really fancy and really nice and they're surrounding this poor black little community, which causes the property taxes to raise.

这种情况已经发生，一些家族——他们的祖先曾是被奴役的人，后来获得了这片土地——如今已无力支付房产税。

And it's already happening to where some of the families who were given this land, like their ancestors who were formerly enslaved folks received this land, they haven't been able to afford the property taxes on it.

因此，土地被收回了，突然间我们看到一种强烈的对比：豪华住宅旁是破旧的拖车屋。

So it's been taken away from them and all of a sudden we're seeing this contrast, this crazy contrast of these really nice houses next to these really raggedy trailers.

当然，那些住在漂亮房子里的人完全不了解背景，他们不知道希拉里维尔是由获得土地赔偿的前奴隶们建立的。

And of course, the people in the nice houses have no context, they don't know that Hillaryville was founded by formerly enslaved folks who received it as a form of reparations.

他们对这段历史一无所知，只看到这片区域是拖累他们房产价值的东西，想要把它清除掉。

They don't know any of that history and so all they see is something to get rid of, something that's depreciating the value of their homes.

因此，我现在觉得有责任讲述这个地方的故事，不仅让希拉里维尔被看见，也让所有类似的小型南方黑人社区得到关注。

And so I feel like it's my duty now to tell this story of this place and to bring light on not only Hilleryville, but all these other little small black towns in the rural South that are just like it.

所以这个故事能被讲述，他们不会消失。

So that the story is told and that they don't disappear.

等等。

Wait.

你是说，你是说你来自那些真的分到四十英亩土地的人吗？

Are you saying are you saying you come from people who actually got their 40 acres?

某种程度上，是的。

In a way, yeah.

问题是，

The thing is is that

这些被奴役的人原本所在的种植园里有超过五百名奴隶，但只把土地分给了八个人，我想，那些被认为最体面的人。

the plantation that these enslaved folks came from, there was over 500 enslaved people there, but they only gave it to the eight, I guess, men who were, I guess, the most respectable.

希拉里·莱斯是这些被奴役者的牧师，他自己也是有色人种。

Hillary Rice was like a minister for the enslaved, a man of color himself.

所以，我想他被视为领袖，于是这个地方就以他的名字命名为希拉里维尔。

And so, I guess he was considered to be the leader, so they named it Hillaryville after him.

他们给了他多少土地？

They gave him how much?

我不太清楚。

I don't really know.

他们给了他一些土地。

They gave him some acres.

是的。

Yeah.

这个小镇是因为Wow而建立的。

And this town is because of Wow.

是的。

Yes.

Wow。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

我为此感到无比自豪，因为它真正展示了如果美国给予黑人应得的权益和赔偿，会发生什么。

I'm so proud of it because it really goes to show what would happen if America would give black folks their just due, their reparations.

你可以把希拉里维尔作为一个例子，这些人立刻建了一所学校，让孩子们能够学习和自我教育。

You could use Hillaryville as an example, immediately What these folks did was build a school so that kids could learn and educate themselves.

他们建了教堂、餐馆、杂货店和酒店，这个只有500人的小镇上还有酒吧和爵士乐场所，但他们只是想要一个自给自足的社区，在这里他们能感受到完全的人性。

They built churches, they built restaurants and general store and a hotel and they had bars and juke joints in this little town of 500 folks, but they just wanted a place, a community that was self sustaining, where they could feel 100% human.

因为他们知道，一旦离开甘蔗田，跨过铁轨，情况就完全不同了。

Because they knew as soon as they left the sugarcane fields and crossed the train tracks, that it would not be the same case.

现在他们有了一个超级明星。

And now they have a superstar.

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

一个小大使，你知道的？

A little ambassador, you know?

我感到骄傲。

I'm proud.

我感到自豪。

I'm proud.

你

You

应该感到自豪。

should be.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢您参与这次精彩的访谈，也感谢您的收听。

Thanks so much for a great interview and thanks to you for listening.

《托里秀》为您点燃实现梦想的动力，因为您可以将梦想当作火箭，助您飞向从未想象过的人生。

Torrey Show gives you fuel to power your dreams because you can use your dreams like a rocket ship to blast you into a life you never imagined.

您可以将梦想变为现实。

You can make your dreams a reality.

也许这个节目能帮到您。

Maybe this show can help.

你可以在Twitter上关注我，用户名是Toray，在Instagram上关注我，用户名是Toray show。

You can find me on Twitter at Toray and on Instagram at Toray show.

《Torrey Show》由我，Torrey撰写，由Jennifer Brown制作。

Torrey show is written by me, Torrey, and produced by Jennifer Brown.

我们的编辑是Ryan Woodhall。

Our editors, Ryan Woodhall.

我们的节目策划是Claudia Jean，由DCP Entertainment发行。

Our bookers, Claudia Jean, and were distributed by DCP Entertainment.

我们将在周三回归，带来更多精彩的嘉宾，因为没人能阻止我们。

And we will be back on Wednesday with more amazing guests because the man can't shut us down.