伊丽莎白：快速而遥远

我参加那场比赛时，不是在怀疑自己能不能行，而是对自己说：你一定能做到。

And I went into that race not not wondering if I could, but telling myself, like, you will do this.

你一定会开始跑起来。

You will start running.

过程会非常艰难，但你一定能坚持住那个节奏。

It's gonna be really hard, but you will be able to to hang on to that pace.

你只需要把注意力集中在这一点上，而不是一上来就拼命冲。

And you you just need to keep your mind there instead of start the race.

感觉很难，这恰恰说明你觉得自己撑不住了，但别被这种感觉骗了。

It feels hard and that and and keep that as a sign that you're not gonna be able to do it.

你得彻底把这种想法反转过来。

You have to completely flip that around.

嗨。

Hey.

欢迎回来，继续收听《女性越野跑者》播客的下一集。

Welcome back to the next episode of the trail running women podcast.

今天这期节目特别精彩，绝对值得一听。

Super fun episode for you guys today.

我跟伊丽莎白·霍拉兰聊了聊，她来自阿尔伯塔省的卡纳莫尔，是一位成绩非常出色的越野跑者。

I'm chatting with Elizabeth Halloran, and she's out of Canmore, Alberta, a pretty successful trail runner.

准确地说，是一位极其出色的越野跑者。

Well, a very successful trail runner.

今天我们重点聊的是她的心态，以及她是如何训练出三小时以内的马拉松成绩的。

But one of the things we're talking about today is her mindset and her training to a sub three marathon.

虽然说的是公路跑，但这些经验完全能用在越野跑上。

So, that's road, but it's super transferable.

我们谈到了公路训练和越野跑之间的联系，也讲清楚了，她能突破三小时大关，关键其实不在体能，而在于心态的转变。

We talk about the connection between that and the trail running that she was doing and the actual difference in her training to get to a sub three and that it was mostly mindset.

我们深入探讨了这一点，我觉得这种心理工具太重要了，大家都知道它关键，但很少有机会这么细致地拆解，这次聊得特别过瘾。

So we really get into that and I just think it is such a powerful tool that I think we know the importance of, but sometimes we don't get to dissect it enough and it was really fun.

她表达得特别清晰，而且这种转变并不是花了好几年才慢慢发生的。

She is super well spoken about how this changed for her and then it wasn't like it took a few years.

她有很多特别精彩的故事，特别有意思，而且她自己也当教练。

So she has a lot of really great stories, super fun, and she's also a coach herself.

你可以在Instagram上关注她，账号是runningtherockies，我也会在节目笔记里附上链接。

You can check her out on Instagram at runningtherockies and I will link to that in the show notes as well.

说到教练，如果你也在找这方面的支持，我们小组教练现在还有几个空位，适合那些还不想一对一、但想和其他人聊聊、看看别人怎么训练、提问题的人，氛围特别好。

Speaking of coaching, if you are looking for that, we have a couple spots open in our group coaching where it's pretty fun if you are not ready for one on one and you wanna chat with other people and see how their training is going and ask questions.

我们还会定期开Zoom会议，互相了解，整个过程真的特别开心。

And then we have some zoom calls and we get to know each other and it's been a lot of fun.

如果你想了解更多信息，最好的方式就是给我发个Instagram私信。

So shoot me a note on Instagram if you'd like more info on that is probably the best way.

我的账号是trailrunningwomenpod。

So at trailrunningwomenpod.

非常感谢所有提供嘉宾建议和各种反馈的朋友。

And huge thanks to everybody who has guest suggestions and all that good stuff.

我录制这段内容的时候，是打算在虎鲸事件发生后那一周，或者再下一周发布。

And I am recording this to come out right after orcas or the week after.

这得看我能不能在比赛完后及时把赛后总结写完，还是脑子太懵了写不动。

Depends if I get my post race recap done actually post race or if I'm too mushy in the old brain to do it.

所以，我想着比赛里和赛后肯定跟不少人聊得挺开心的，提前先谢谢大家的交流。

So, yeah, I imagine that I've had some fun conversations with people during the race and after the race, and I'm gonna preemptively say thank you for your conversations.

那些对话都特别暖心。

They were lovely.

但我可不想光顾着聊，连声谢都不说。

But I don't wanna just not acknowledge.

所以，这就算是表达了。

So there we go.

现在就盼着能顺利完成了。

Now, hopefully it happens.

也希望我没被冻僵，毕竟天太冷了。

And hopefully I didn't freeze to death because it is cold.

我还该说点啥呢？

What else can I say?

我想暂时就这些了。

I think that's it for now.

非常感谢Liz来参加节目，就这样了。

Huge thanks to Liz for coming on the show and that's it.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

马上要和下一位嘉宾聊开闲天了，通常这意味着这一期会特别精彩。

Just about to go down a rabbit hole of chitchat with our next guest, which usually means that it is gonna be an awesome episode.

我花了一些时间看了你的网站和你的成就，你在公路和越野跑方面都做了些了不起的事。

So I have spent some time looking over your website and your accomplishments, and you have done some absolutely amazing things, both road and trail.

我真的很期待深入聊聊。

So I'm super excited to get into it.

欢迎来到节目，Liz。

Welcome to the show, Liz.

非常感谢你邀请我。

Thank you so much for having me.

我特别期待和你聊聊。

I'm so pumped to chat.

是的。

Yeah.

刚才我们说到，你是通过你丈夫的表亲介绍来的，我没记错吧？

So we were just chatting that you were recommended through your husband's cousin, if I got that right.

对。

Yeah.

我带的一个跑者，她刚完成了人生第一个100英里赛跑，人也特别棒。

A runner I actually coach, and she just finished her first 100 miler, and she's an awesome human being in general.

所以我想，你们家这层关系肯定也特别投缘。

So I imagine that the family connection will be great too.

没错。

Totally.

这真是太棒了。

That's so awesome.

是的。

Yeah.

其实我只见过珍一次。

We I've actually only been able to met to meet Jen once.

前两年在斯阔米什碰过面，真巧，完全没想到。

We met at Squamish fifty the other year, so small world, Totally.

但是

But

对。

Yeah.

那咱们先简单聊聊你目前住哪儿吧，我记得你不是那儿本地人，不过这些细节咱们慢慢说，再讲讲你平时做什么，然后从你怎么开始跑步说起。

So, I mean, let's get get started with a brief intro on where you're living now, and I don't believe you're actually from there, but we'll get into all those details and what you do, and then we'll start with how you got into running.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Totally.

我现在住在坎莫尔。

So I live in Canmore.

在这儿已经好几年了。

Been here for a few years.

以前住在班夫，就在马路那头二十分钟的地方，待了大概八年，不过不管怎样，我一直是落脚在加拿大落基山脉这边。

I was living in Banff, which is, like, twenty minutes down the road, and was there for maybe eight years, but either way, based out of the Canadian Rockies.

我是在安大略省长大的，布拉姆顿，多伦多外头不远。

I grew up in Ontario, so Brampton, just outside Toronto.

上大学的时候，每到夏天我就往西部跑。

And then when I was in university, I started coming out to West just in the summer.

有一年夏天在哥伦比亚冰原当导游，特别喜欢那种生活——跑山径、徒步，夏天所有这些有趣的事儿。

I had a summer job working at the Columbia Icefield doing tour guide stuff, and I just loved the lifestyle, like trail running, hiking, everything fun like that in the summer.

毕业后我回来再待一个夏天，结果就再没走成。

And so when I finished school, I came out here to do one more summer, and then I never left.

现在我彻底爱上这儿了。

And now I'm pretty pretty hooked here.

从加拿大东部来的人，尤其是其他地方的人，最后都落脚在这儿，这事儿真挺常见的。

It it's such a funny common story of people from Eastern Canada, particularly other people that end up coming, and they're like,

现在我就在这儿常住下来了。

oh, now I'm here permanently.

没错。

Totally.

我觉得要么就是阿尔伯塔，要么就是不列颠哥伦比亚。

And I feel like you either it's, yeah, Alberta or BC.

我以前也在惠斯勒住过几个冬天，那儿大概会是我的备选。

I did a few winters living in Whistler as well, and I I feel like that would be my my backup.

我特别喜欢西海岸。

I I love West Coast so so much.

不过现在我基本就定居在坎莫尔了。

But, yeah, pretty situated in in Kenmore here now.

我在家上班。

I work from home.

我是做IT项目管理的，挺有意思的。

I'm a an IT project manager, so it's kinda cool.

我公司主要做旅游和酒店行业，但我负责的是他们的IT项目，还能去不少挺棒的地方出差。

I work for a company that does a lot of, like, tourism and hospitality, but I get to work on IT projects for them and get to travel some pretty cool places.

这也让我一直留在肯莫尔，短期内完全没打算搬走。

And, yeah, that's what has kinda kept me in in Kenmore, and no plans of leaving anytime soon.

你第一次去惠斯勒的时候，是从东部过来的吗？

So when you first came to Whistler, is that the first place you came from Easter?

你是先去的班夫吗？

Was that to Banff first?

不是。

No.

我最早夏天去的是班夫地区，后来上大学时，还不想马上找份正经全职工作。

I came to the Banff area first in the summers, and then when I was down university, I didn't really wanna get, like, a a full time grown up job just yet.

所以我就在惠斯勒的山地工作过几个冬天，冬天就过去待着，夏天再回加拿大落基山脉，最后就想着干脆找个地方安定下来。

So did a few winters working for the mountain, actually, in Whistler, and I would kind of hang out head out there for the winter and then come back to the Canadian Rockies in the summer and eventually just wanted to settle down in one place.

我觉得自己在这儿扎了根。

And I felt like I had kind of more roots here.

现在我真的觉得和这儿融为一体了。

And, yeah, now I just feel totally intertwined.

很难想象会离开这里。

It's really hard to imagine leaving.

完全理解。

Totally.

明白了。

Okay.

我再仔细看看你的数据，觉得咱们得深入聊聊这个，正好也跟我想谈的另一件事连上了——你是怎么发现这些步道的。

So I'm just looking at your results again, and I think we need to dive into this and then it will kind of intertwine with what I wanted to talk about anyways, which was how you found the trails.

你从2006年就开始跑步了，那时候在多伦多跑过不少半马、十公里和全马，我猜那会儿你还没来这边，后来在阿尔伯塔也跑过一些。

But you have had a huge running background starting way back in 2006 with a lot of half marathons, 10 k's, and marathons back in Toronto before you I imagine before you came out, and then some in Alberta.

说说你和跑步的故事吧，你年轻时是怎么开始跑公路赛的？

So tell us about your relationship with running and how you started racing roads when you were younger.

没错。

Totally.

是的。

Yeah.

我高中的最后一年开始随便跑跑公路赛，大学期间也断断续续参加了一些。

I I kinda got into road racing, like, casually my last year of high school and then a little bit through university.

后来我特别迷上了去健身房锻炼，然后发现了跑步比赛，一下子就爱上了。

Got super into, like, going to the gym and working out and things like that, and then found racing, and I just loved it so much.

就算上学忙得不可开交，报名参赛对我来说就像一种奖励，怎么都停不下来。

And even while I was in in school and life was pretty hectic, I feel like signing up for races was my, like, treat to myself, and I just couldn't get enough of it.

我确实参加了超多比赛，现在回头看，可能比建议别人甚至建议自己参加的还要多，但我就是特别享受报名参加任何赛事的感觉。

So I did, yeah, a crazy amount of racing, probably more than I would recommend to anyone or myself today, but it really, I just loved signing up for for any event.

上学那会儿，我时断时续地跑，但生活状态其实并不太好。

And so kinda did it on and off while I was in school, but I also didn't really have, you know, like, the best lifestyle.

那时候没什么规律，就单纯是看到比赛就报名。

I didn't have much of a routine, so I really would just kinda sign up for for road races.

我特别享受把它们完成的那种挑战感。

I loved the challenge of just getting them done.

可能训练得没那么规范，但真的特别开心。

Probably wasn't training all that properly, but really enjoyed it.

在安大略的时候，我根本没接触过越野跑，所以公路跑自然就最方便了。

And then, you know, in Ontario, there's I I hadn't really been exposed to trail running, so road was obviously super easy.

我觉得这应该是很多人共同的经历吧。但搬到西部以后，不管住哪儿，我都是通过走出日常跑步路线，来慢慢了解一个地方，也让自己真正安定下来。

I think that's a pretty common common experience for people, but coming out West, I always continued like, everywhere I lived, it's sort of how I would get to know a place and start start to feel settled is just get out from my regular running routes.

有好几个夏天我在哥伦比亚冰原工作，休息日就去尝试挑战一些长距离的野外路线。

I spent a few summers working at the Columbia Icefield and, on days off, started to go and try to tackle a lot of the longer backcountry routes.

通常是岩石墙步道或者斯凯勒这种落基山脉的经典路线。

Usually stuff like Rockwall Trail or Skylar, these are some classic Rockies routes.

很多人去野外露营，都得花两三天、甚至四五天才能走完，但我很难请到足够长的假去跑完所有想走的路线。后来我读到有人一天内跑完这些路，或者干脆直接徒步穿越，就觉得这方法太棒了——能用更短的时间完成更多我想走的路线。

A lot of people, like, if you go in backcountry camp, you need to do it in two, three, four, even five days, but I found it really hard to get enough time off work to be able to do all the different routes, and I started reading about people just, like, day running them or basically through hiking, and I just thought that was such a cool way to see if I could do more of these trails that I wanted, but within a shorter amount of time.

而且说实话，我以前根本没想到这些路居然能跑着走。

Also, like, I just never thought that you could run these routes.

但一旦我开始这么跑，就彻底爱上了越野跑。

But once I I started doing that, like, I was completely hooked on trail running.

我第一个尝试的大概是贾斯珀的天际线步道。

I think the first one I kinda tackled was the Skyline Trail in Jasper.

当时我和伴侣已经订好了营地。

I had been booked, I think, with my partner at the time.

我们原计划在那里住上几晚。

We were supposed to camp there for a few nights.

结果那边发生了火灾。

There ended up being a fire.

我们不得不取消预订，当时就面临一个选择：要么这个夏天再也别想跑这条步道，因为其他时间根本订不到营地，要么干脆一天内跑完。一个人出发时真有点吓人，但那种感觉太刺激了。

We had to cancel our reservation, and it was sort of either I wasn't gonna be able to get to do that trail again because I couldn't get a campsite the rest of the summer or I had to decide to run it in a day, and it was kinda like super scary experience heading out there doing it solo, but it was such a rush.

从那以后，我就想，好吧。

And I think from there, I thought, okay.

既然我能跑完45公里的路线，不如直接报名参加一场50公里的超级越野赛吧。

If I've done that route, which was 45 k, I might as well sign up for one of these 50 k ultras.

我第一个报名的是罗布森山50公里赛。

I think the first one I signed up for was Mount Robson fifty k.

就在贾斯珀外面。

It's just outside of Jasper.

那场比赛简直把我打垮了，但我太喜欢了，接下来几个月又报了两场，之后就一发不可收拾了。

It, like, destroyed me, but I loved it so much that I think I'd probably sign up for two more in the months that followed, and then it just was a bit of a runaway train from there.

是的。

Yeah.

完全没错。

Totally.

从那场50公里之后，我接着参加了斯奎米什55公里、芬内斯和阿姆100公里，这两场都是100英里赛程。

If I look like it went from that 50 k to Squamish fifty fifty, Finless and Arm 100 k, which we both run 100 mile hours.

所以，没错，后来真有点停不下来了。

So, yes, it got carried away for sure.

不过，通常这些比赛我都是一起参加的，这正是我特别感兴趣的地方。

But yes, usually at the same time, and this is what I'm super interested about.

我来给你背景信息。

And I'll give you some context.

我浏览你的网站时发现，当嘉宾住在附近挺有意思的，因为我们有相似的赛事，可以很自然地比较，完全不是竞争那种。

I'm like, looking through your website, and it's interesting when I get a guest that's close by because we have comparable races so I can figure out not in a competitive way at all.

比如，作为跑者，我们之间有什么共同点？

Like, oh, how do we relate as runners?

有时候我采访的人，我完全想不通他们怎么能跑得那么快，简直不可思议。

Because sometimes I interview people that I'm like, well, I have no idea how you ever could accomplish that so fast like it blows my mind.

但有些人我就觉得，嗯，我能理解你的经历。

And then other people are like, I can see where you're coming from.

所以当我看到我们俩都跑过的百公里或更长的赛事时，我就觉得，咱们想法一致。

And so if I look at the same races we've done that are like 100 ks or longer, I'm like, yeah, we're on the same page here.

然后说到你的公路跑，那真是越来越疯狂了。

And then we get to your road running, which has gone absolutely bananas.

我真好奇，一个人是怎么开始跑50英里的？

And I am like, how does someone start running 50 milers?

不过你的公路跑配速变得太快了。

But on the side, your road paces get so fast.

就在你开始跑50公里和50英里的那几年，虽然成绩还没到惊人地步，但你的马拉松已经跑到三小时三十几分，半马也突破了一小时四十分钟了。

So those same years that you start running the 50 k's, the 50 miler, and not crazy times yet, but you're starting to get your, like, three thirty something marathons and your sub one forty half marathons.

这是你有意为之的，还是只是因为有氧基础提升太多，所以公路跑自然就变快了？

Was that something that you did on purpose or did you just did the aerobic base get so much better that you could do these road runs faster?

我觉得一开始，其实我的有氧基础有很多可以提升的空间。

I think at first, like, I think there was a lot of low hanging fruit with my aerobic base.

我一直跑得不少，但那时候完全不懂该怎么训练。

And I think, like, I've always run a lot, but I just didn't know what I was doing in training at all.

所以我只是需要做几处小调整，回头把基础重新学一遍。

And so I think I just needed a few tweaks to really, like, go back and learn the basics.

我最早找的教练是迈克·勒贝尔，我是在参加家庭辛阿姆比赛表现不佳后，听说了他的名字。

And I actually started so my first coach that I worked with was Mike Lebel, which is I I learned of him from, I think, trying to run and then not doing so great at Family Sin Arm.

但他真的帮了我很多。

But he really helped me.

我当时跑得很多，但根本没怎么动脑子。

Like, I was doing a ton of running, but I wasn't doing it strategically.

可能跑得太快了，量也太大，根本没抓住重点。

I was probably running way too fast, maybe doing way too much, not really, like, focusing on the right areas.

他帮我打下了扎实的有氧基础，提醒我别太拼命，速度训练也要更有计划。

So he really brought some basic aerobic base building, don't go too hard, be a little bit more strategic with your speed workouts.

我觉得，正是他给我建立了这套体系，再加上我慢慢明白了训练和成绩之间的关系，不再只是盲目出勤，这才真正开始有了起色。

And I feel like the combination of him bringing that structure in and then me actually learning how my training was actually contributing to a result rather than just getting out and doing it, that's where things started to kinda pick up and take off.

随着了解越来越深，我也能自己运用这些原则了，目标也定得更激进了。但说实话，是迈克帮我把这趟车开上了轨道，我永远感激他。

And as I learned more and more, then I started to be able to apply some of those principles myself and be a lot like, I became a lot more aggressive with my goals, but I think Mike definitely, like, got that train running for me, which I'll always be super grateful for him for.

是啊，迈克是芬兰之臂赛事的赛事总监，我们在这儿聊过这个比赛，我跑过好多次。

Yeah, Mike is the race director of Finland's arm, and we've talked about that race over here, I've run a lot of them.

他真的很厉害。

And he's amazing.

我之前都没意识到，其实我早就采访过他，因为那场比赛太复杂、太艰难、太疯狂了。

And I didn't realize I actually interviewed him about that race because it's so technical and gnarly and crazy.

是的

Yeah.

他就说，对啊。

He's like, oh, yeah.

我也跑过三小时以内的马拉松。

I've also run a sub three marathon.

我当时就说，啊？

I'm like, what?

他挺不耐烦的。

Like, he's annoyed.

没错。

Totally.

所以呢。

So Yeah.

我觉得你接着说。

And I think Go ahead.

我是真的特别喜欢越野跑和公路跑。

Like, I I love I love trail and road.

我觉得这事儿还挺有意思的。

I think it's it's so funny too.

在一些山地小镇，人们往往分得很清楚，属于哪个圈子，要么特别喜欢一种，要么就只爱另一种。

I think in certain mountain towns, like, people are very divided, maybe which community they fall into, and you either really like one or or the other.

我知道不少人挺瞧不起公路跑的，但我真的特别喜欢这两种。

And, you know, I know a lot of people hate on the road a little bit, but I really, really love both.

对我来说，它们简直像两种完全不同的运动，但又觉得它们彼此补充得特别好，这点真的很有趣。

They they almost feel like totally different sports to me, yet I do think that they complement each other so much, which is really interesting.

我也觉得它们确实是两种不同的运动。

I think that they are different sports too.

而且我觉得确实如此。

And I think Yeah.

你看那些跑者，总有一种更合他们的风格，倒也不是说性格这种老套的说法，我不想强化这种对立，但确实是他们的天赋倾向——比如我，越长距离越带劲，因为能体现出耐力；而我肯定当不了什么短跑飞人。

You can see that in runners that like, yeah, there's one that just suits their personalities more than the other and maybe not personalities, not right because I don't want to play into that divide, but sure their natural skill set like for me the longer the better because it comes out to like some toughness versus like I'm not going to be a fast Roadrunner.

说实话，我还能进步，但永远不可能达到竞技水平。

Mean, I can get better, but I'm not ever going to be competitive.

有些人则恰恰相反。

And then some people are other way the other way around.

我觉得这跟你说的一样，它们本质相同，却又不一样。

And I think that's because they are the same but different kind of what you said.

但这样真的很好，回头练练步频，再回去冲刺你的100公里或100英里目标。

But I mean, it's so good for you Just turn around and work on turnover, and then go back to your 100 ks 100 mile goal.

想想看。

Think

完全对。

totally

这能让你更了解自己的身体，避免在夏天陷入那种懒散的越野跑节奏？

teaches you so much about your body and not getting that like, almost lazy trail pace that we can get into in the summer?

是的。

Yeah.

而且我觉得这样能帮我避免对训练感到厌倦，因为感觉完全不一样。

And I think it helps me keep from getting, like, burnt out on on it as well because it feels really different.

比如，备战马拉松和训练50英里、100公里或者100英里的比赛，完全是两种体验。

Like, doing a marathon build feels so, so different than training for, like, a 50 mile or a 100 k or a 100 miler.

我并不是总能同时应付这两种训练。

And I'm just not up for both all the time.

所以如果我不想练太多速度训练，或者更想多待在户外，我就可以多往长距离上倾斜。

So if I'm really not feeling like doing a lot of speed work or I'm wanting to spend more time outside, you know, I can lean more towards the longer stuff.

但如果时间紧张，或者特别想挑战自己、突破极限，我就会转向一些短距离的目标。

But if I'm kind of, like, time crunched or really feeling like I wanna push myself and, like, test my limits, then I can lean into some of my role goals.

我真的很喜欢在两者之间切换，因为这样不会觉得枯燥。

And I really just like being able to bounce between the two because you don't you don't get bored of it.

感觉就是完全不一样。

It just feels like totally different.

对。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢这一点，因为再看看你的成绩，其实说明你能做所有这些，但没法同时全做。

And I love that because if we look again at your results, it kind of shows that like, you can do it all, but you can't do it all at once.

所以你看得出来

So you can see

你那段时间接连完成了百英里、100公里，还有Squamish 50K，全都挤在一块儿。

the shifts of like, oh, you did a you did 100 miler and 100 ks and squamish 5,050 all kind of in the same time period.

然后你好像转去专注公路跑，因为你觉得那更带劲。

And then it looks like probably was like, I'm going to work on some road because that's what I think is exciting.

时间就到了2019年。

And so we get to 2019.

那时候还是有不少超长距离的训练，

And yes, there's still some really long stuff in there.

但你开始跑进40分钟以内的10公里，这简直不可思议。

But then you start running sub forty minute 10 ks, which is insane.

我觉得大概就是2021年2月左右，你的马拉松成绩突然掉到了3小时09分，后来甚至突破了3小时大关。

And I feel like that was around the time like 02/2021 where your marathon time suddenly went down to like three zero nine and then eventually to sub three.

那我们来聊聊这个吧。

So let's talk a bit about that.

在你那段超长的越野跑时期里，有没有哪个时刻你决定要挑战三小时以内的马拉松？

And like was there a time in that really long trail running section of life where you decided to go after a sub three marathon?

有。

Yeah.

真高兴你问到这个，因为说实话，让我萌生这个想法的，主要有两个原因。

And it's oh, I'm so glad you asked me this because I think what honestly put the idea in my head, I have two sources of inspiration.

一个是我的好朋友亚历克斯。

One is my really good friend, Alex.

我记得她曾说，她跑了三小时零五分左右。

I remember her just saying, like, she I think she ran a three zero five or something.

她当时就说，下一场马拉松，要么跑进三小时，要么不跑。

She's like, man, the next marathon, like, sub three or bust.

我当时就想，这真是个超硬核的目标，但同时我也记得，听过你的一期节目，好像是托里，她说她就只想跑进三小时。

I just remember thinking, like, that'd be such a hardcore time, but I also remember listening to one of these episodes with you, and I think it was Tori, and I remember Tori just saying, like, I just wanna do a sub three.

我觉得，成绩里有个‘2’开头的，那真是普遍公认的硬核目标。

Like, I just think a time with a two in front of it is so universally hardcore.

我记得听到那两位女性谈论这个目标时，都觉得特别了不起，这话一直留在我心里。

And I kind of just, I remember hearing both of those women just talk about this being such an amazing goal and it stuck with me.

很长一段时间里，我一直想跑进波士顿马拉松的资格线。

And I think I had, you know, for so long tried to qualify for Boston.

那时候需要三小时三十分，我花了好长时间才达到这个标准。

I think I needed three thirty at the time, and it really did take me a long time to reach that milestone.

后来通过更科学的训练，保持有氧基础，稍微聪明一点，我慢慢把成绩从三小时二十分降到三小时十分左右。但三小时这个目标，我一直觉得特别吓人，说实话，好长时间我都不觉得自己真能办到，可正因如此，我反而更渴望实现它。

And then I think through just better training, maintaining my aerobic base, just being a little bit smarter, I was able to cut down to three twenty and then fairly comfortably to more like three ten, three fifteen, And that three hour goal just felt like really, really scary, and it it genuinely I I was like, I I don't think I believed for a long time that I could actually do it, but that made me want it really, really bad.

对。

Yes.

你提到托里真有意思，她刚跑出了三小时零二分。

And so that's funny that you mentioned that about Tory because she just ran a three zero two

那真是太厉害了。

because That's amazing.

是的。

Yeah.

她现在也在全力冲击这个目标。

She's going for it right now too.

她管这叫公平的考验，因为连跑不到三小时的人都能这么厉害，真让人想不到。

And, yeah, she called it the great equalizer because the man who won't even sub three is unbelievable.

完全没错。

So totally.

一旦你心里有了这个目标，可那速度真的太快了。

And once you get that in your mind, but it's so fast.

所以你还得有这份信心，就拿我来说，现在成绩是三小时十三分左右，第一步得先想清楚：好吧，我能把这十三分钟给减下来。

So you also have to have this confidence and coming from like, I think mine is like three thirteen right now or something that it's like the first step is to say, okay, I can take those thirteen minutes off.

对。

Yeah.

但我现在还是不太敢相信自己真能做到。

And I'm still in a place where I don't totally believe that.

所以我得直接跳进去，马上开始。

So I would have to like just throw myself in and and start.

那你当时有没有心理障碍，觉得达不到那么低的成绩？能不能聊聊你的训练过程？

So was there any mental block for you around getting that low or, like, talk us through the the training I

如果回过头看，我记得我第一次真正认真训练、目标直指三小时以内，是在2021年。

think, like, if I look back, you know, I've the first time I'd say I really went for and trained specifically to try to go under three hours was in 2021.

那时候，我基本把训练课都完成了。

And I think for that first time, I kinda did the workouts.

短距离的配速训练，我还能跟上。

I could do some of the the shorter stuff at pace.

长距离的，就差那么一点，还没完全到位。

The longer stuff, not quite not quite.

我知道第一次就想冲进三小时，难度真的很大，但我心里还是抱着一丝希望，觉得也许能成。

And I I think I knew it would be, like, quite a stretch goal to go and nail it on the first time, but I still sort of had this hope that I would do it.

我选择在波士顿马拉松尝试，那条赛道可不轻松。

And I I went for it at Boston, which is a tough course.

我还是不太愿意相信这一点。

Still don't wanna believe that.

我就干脆直接去做了。

And I I kinda just went for it.

前半程我还能撑住，但后半程真的撑不住了。

I maybe held on for the first half, and then I I really just couldn't hold it.

我没彻底崩掉，但速度明显慢了不少。

And I I didn't totally blow up, but I slowed down quite a bit.

我觉得我跑出了三小时十四分。

And I I think I ran three fourteen.

我确实挺失望的，但我也觉得，行吧。

And I was disappointed for sure, but I also was like, okay.

至少我往前迈了一步。

I'm one step further.

我觉得，我其实能做到。

Like, I think I can do this.

但我一直以为，下一场或者再下一场，我肯定能冲到那个成绩。

But I really thought that I'm I would maybe hit that mark in the next race, maybe the one after.

结果根本不是这么回事。

And that's really not what happened.

从第一次尝试到最终成功之间，每次失败我都要重新调整心态，等我真的做到了，一切突然就通了。

And I would say it's kinda between that first attempt and when I finally did it that, like, I had to learn how to reframe every time I did fail at reaching that goal, and when I finally did that, it's like everything clicked.

所以，我慢慢学会了更好地完成长距离配速训练。

So, you know, I would I got better at doing long run workouts.

我离目标配速越来越近，有时候甚至能跑出来，但总有些训练，比如四组五公里或者两组十公里，虽然能完成配速，可感觉还是特别吃力，心里一直觉得：这根本不可能办到。

I got closer to my paces or I would hit paces, but I still never you know, there'd be a workout like four times five k or two times 10 k, and I can hit the pace for the workout, but it just still felt so hard that I really, in my head, was like, there's no way I can actually do this.

到了比赛当天，我会按计划起跑。

And I would set out on race day.

起跑时保持配速，但一点不轻松。

I would set out at pace, and it it didn't feel easy.

比赛过程中我总会胡思乱想，紧张到不行，最后不是彻底崩了，就是撑不住了——说白了就是心理垮了。

And I would really get in my head during the race, and I would freak out, and I would I would usually blow up or I would just kinda choke is the best way to summarize it.

我以为每次都会不一样。

And I think I just thought every time would be different.

我跑过芝加哥马拉松。

You know, I I ran CIM.

我觉得那次跑了三小时零九分。

I think I did three zero nine.

有一年我还试过BMO，也是三小时零九分。

I I had an attempt at BMO one year, another three zero nine.

后来我回到了2024年的波士顿马拉松。

And then I think I went back to Boston 2024.

那次训练状态好多了，我觉得这是最好的一次训练。

My training went much better, and I was like, this is the best training.

我能明显感觉到自己的体能提升了不少。

Like, I can tell that I've I've really improved my fitness.

我犯的错是，还是以为只要比赛当天到场，配速就会轻松，事情自然就水到渠成。

The mistake I made is I still really just think that I thought I would show up on race day, and the pace would feel easy, and I would just do it.

结果我在波士顿彻底崩了。

And I absolutely blew up in Boston.

我最后跑了大概三小时二十八分，特别特别沮丧。

I think I ended up running like three twenty eight, and I was so, so upset.

我真的很想聊聊这个，因为没错，你们看我现在成绩不错，但我想说的是，我之前失败过很多次。

And I really wanna speak to this because, yeah, you can look at my results and it's great that I've done the times that I have now, but I really wanna share that I failed so many times before.

每次失败，我都觉得这是又一个证据，证明我根本跑不进三小时。

And every time I failed, I used it as like, oh, this is another, it's another, like, piece of proof that I I I can't go sub three.

我根本做不到。

Like, I am not capable of it.

波士顿跑崩之后，我特别烦躁，干脆把这股怒气转化成了心态上的转变。

And after after I kinda blew up at Boston, I was I just got so frustrated that I kinda used that anger to to do a bit of a shift in my mind.

我的训练其实进行得特别顺利。

And I my training had gone so well.

三周后我又报名了另一场马拉松，这通常不是我会建议的做法。

I signed up for another marathon three weeks later, which is not generally what I would recommend.

哇哦。

Woah.

但我知道，我跑这场比赛时比训练时慢了很多，心里直觉告诉我：我其实没累到真正拼尽全力的程度。

But I know that I had ended up running the race so much slower than what I had trained at that I kind of just felt in my gut, I'm like, I'm not as tired as if I fully raced this.

如果我能利用好这份状态，直接全力冲刺，那我就一定要这么做。

And if I can turn around and leverage this fitness and really just go for it, I'm gonna do it.

我参加那场比赛时，根本不是在怀疑自己能不能做到，而是不断告诉自己：你一定能做到。

And I went into that race not not wondering if I could, but telling myself, like, you will do this.

你一定会开始跑起来。

You will start running.

比赛会很难，但你一定能撑住那个配速，关键是要把注意力集中在这一点上，别一开头觉得吃力就以为自己撑不住了。

It's gonna be really hard, but you will be able to to hang on to that pace, and you you just need to keep your mind there instead of start the race, it feels hard, and that and and take that as a sign that you're not gonna be able to do it.

你得彻底扭转这种想法。

You have to completely flip that around.

几周后，我确实参加了多伦多马拉松。

And, yeah, I ended up doing the Toronto marathon a few weeks later.

我基本上没告诉任何人我要跑这场比赛，除了当时还是我未婚夫的丈夫。

I also didn't tell anyone that I was doing this race, basically, aside from my husband, who's my fiance at the time.

我觉得我需要卸掉一些外界的压力，专心只做自己。

And I think I needed to take some of that external pressure off and really just focus on myself.

不知怎么的，那天一切突然就对上了，我跑出了两个小时五十六分的成绩。

And for whatever reason, it was just one of those days that totally clicked and I ran two fifty six.

那一刻我回过头才明白，其实你早就具备这个能力了。

And it just, like, it made me look back and be like, you you had this the whole time.

你只是需要彻底下定决心，接受这会很难，但你一定能做到。

Like, you really just had to fully mentally commit and accept that this is gonna be hard, but you can do it.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的太了不起了，太棒了。

And which is so impressive and so cool.

在深入聊之前，我有几个关于你训练方式变化的问题，但这个问题其实特别普遍——无论你是尾部、中部还是前列跑者，体能往往都有，真正决定成败的是心态。

And before we get in, I have questions on the the training and how it changed for you, but this is such a universal question because it also it's gonna happen for our listeners, whether they are back of the pack, mid pack, or front of the pack where the fitness is there and the mindset is the difference.

那你在比赛中用的那些方法，别人参加越野跑时也能借鉴，尤其是当感觉特别吃力的时候——毕竟这本来就是正常的。

So what were the tools you use in the race that people can take on their next trail race that when it did feel hard because it's supposed to?

你当时成功应对那种状态，具体是怎么做的？

How did you deal with this time when you were successful?

这是个好问题。

Yeah, it's a good question.

我觉得我带进比赛的一个关键做法是，过去我总在想象自己达成目标时的样子，或者那种成功的感觉。

I think I so something that I really carried with me into that race is instead, I think for so long I'd been visualizing what it would look like or what it would feel like for me to succeed at this goal.

我总是想象自己冲过终点线的场景。

And I always visualized, you know, crossing the finish line.

那种感觉特别踏实。

Like, felt so comfortable.

我感到很开心。

I felt happy.

但比赛时我换了个思路：我会告诉自己，这段路一定会很难，一定会疼，但你已经做好准备了，你一定能挺过去。

And instead, during the race, I visualized it's gonna feel so hard and it's gonna hurt, but you're gonna be you're gonna be ready for that and you're gonna push through that.

我当时特别注重心理准备，想着怎么去应对这种不适感，而不是完全没做好心理建设。

Like, I I really focused on mentally preparing for how I was going to stick with the discomfort rather than not being prepared for it at all.

我知道这听起来有点玄乎，像是什么魔法技巧，但就是这个小小的转变，让我明白：感觉艰难并不意味着你做不到这个目标。

And I know that sounds like a little bit woo woo because it sounds like a bit of a magic trick, but just that simple shift told my mind that like, you need to be it's not a sign that you're not capable of this goal, just because it feels hard.

你应该预料到过程会很难，所以当真的觉得吃力时，就不会以为自己起步太快、快到极限了，或者训练不够支撑你。

You should expect for it to feel difficult, and so that when it did feel tough, it wasn't a sign that, oh, you've gone out too hard, you're redlining, your training isn't there to support you.

我早有准备，就把这种感觉当成推动力。

I was expecting it, and I just used that as momentum.

随着比赛越往后，我越来越专注于看自己已经完成了什么——第一个小时、一个半小时、两个小时，我都挺过来了。

The further I got into that race as well, I felt like I was more focused on, Look what you've already done in this first hour, hour and a half, two hours.

那种可能出问题的余地越来越小，我就把这当成动力，越跑越有信心。

And it just that margin or that that window where something could go wrong got smaller and smaller, and I feel like I just used it as momentum and got more and more confident as the race went on.

是的。

Yeah.

太棒了。

That's so awesome.

听起来是有点玄乎，但其实也没那么玄，因为我们经常聊这个。

And it does sound a bit woo woo, but also not because we talk about that all the time.

其实有一本书叫《耐力》，作者是亚历克斯·哈钦森，我好几年来一直引用这本书，里面讲到，这种‘很难受’的感觉只是一个警告信号，你不必当真。

Actually, there's a book Endure by Alex Hutchinson that we've I've referenced, like, for years where he talks about, like, that This is hard feeling is a warning sign that you don't have to listen to.

所以如果你能换个角度想，好吧，挺好。

So if you can flip that switch to be like, okay, great.

对，确实很难，但也就到这儿了。

Like, that's, it's hard, but like, that's, that's it.

这种感觉到此为止，别再往下想了。

That's where that ends.

然后你就不用因为这种感觉而放慢脚步。

And then you don't have to slow down to accommodate that feeling.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我回想一下，每次临近比赛前的训练，有时候反而比比赛当天还要难受。

And I also, I think I looked back at I often find like some of the training runs I do leading into race day, like you almost feel worse in some of those than you actually do during the race.

即使你没达到配速，我回想起一些跑步训练，刚开始的时候感觉完全撑不住。

Even if you don't hit your paces, I really look back at some of the runs I've done where, like, earlier in in the workout, it feels completely unsustainable.

但回头一看，其实你把训练完成得很棒。

But when you look back, you actually did nail the workout.

你确实达到了配速，尽管一开始觉得自己根本做不到，所以我现在比赛时也会想起这一点。

You did hit your paces even though at the start you thought you couldn't, and so I really try to draw on that in the race now as well.

当你在训练中经历过那种感觉——觉得太吃力、节奏太猛、担心自己撑不下去，但最后还是坚持下来了。

That if you can do that during like, you've had this feeling before where maybe it feels a little bit too hard or maybe you're going a bit too aggressive or you're worrying if you can hang on, but you did it then.

既然训练里你能做到，比赛里也一样能做到。

And so if you can do it in your workouts, you can do it in the race.

你只需要学会把这种感觉看成别的东西，而不是一个闪个不停的警告信号。

You just have to to learn how to interpret that feedback as something different rather than, like, you know, a flashing warning sign.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

如果你在训练中能做到，哪怕很艰难，也要相信减量期的作用，这可能会在比赛中带来意想不到的突破。

And that if you could do it and it was hard in the training, trust the taper and that it might be a game changer when you are actually in a race environment.

没错。

Totally.

多伦多赛后，我就想，好了，搞定马拉松了。

So after Toronto, it's like, okay, sweet.

我跑完公路马拉松了。

I've done the road marathon.

接下来该回山地跑一场斯奎米什50英里了。

Let's get back to the trails for some squamish 50 mile.

说起来，你有没有发现？

Actually, you know what?

在谈这个之前，你提到波士顿的训练是你状态最好的一次。

Before we get into that, you talked about how this training for Boston was like your best training.

那这次训练，你具体做了哪些调整？

Was there anything that you actually change?

你每周跑多少公里或者英里，随便你怎么说都行？

Like how many kilometers miles, whatever you want to speak in?

每周的跑量大概是多少？

Were you running per week?

训练计划本身有什么调整吗？

And was there like a change to the structure?

还是说，你的体能本来就需要超过十六周才能积累起来，之前的训练其实都在慢慢累积？

Or were you just maybe the fitness also just takes more than sixteen weeks and your practice before it was all kind of coming together?

我训练计划没怎么改。

I didn't change the structure too much.

跑量也没加太多。

I didn't have the volume too much.

我不是那种跑量特别大的人。

I'm like, I'm not a crazy high volume runner.

如果我把时间安排得更投入一点，也许会跑更多，但对我来说，跑得越多并不一定越好。

I might be if I like invested my time a little bit differently, but I I more is not necessarily more for me.

所以我根本没往高跑量上使劲。

And so like, I definitely didn't lean too hard into high mileage.

我觉得那年备战波士顿的时候，训练状态挺好的，因为我能更稳定地接近马拉松配速。

I think leading up to Boston that year, training felt like it was going well because I could just more consistently hit a lot closer to my marathon paces.

我觉得自己找到了合适的强度。

And I think I found the right amount of intensity.

以前有些阶段，我配速定得太猛了，比如明明该跑三小时的配速，却硬要逼自己跑每公里四分十五秒。

I think other blocks, I went way too aggressive on some of the paces, and it was sorta like, okay, I take like three hour pace, you're trying to do like four fifteen a kilometer.

要是我每公里跑四分十六秒，立马就觉得：完了，我失败了。

I think I would like, if I was, you know, four sixteen per kilometer, it was immediate, oh, I failed.

我跑得太慢了。

I'm going too slow.

根本没达到目标配速。

Like, I'm not hitting the paces.

对。

Right.